The Invention of the Depth Charge - Kaboom? Yes Jellicoe, Kaboom!
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- Опубликовано: 7 май 2024
- Today we take a look at how the depth charge in particular came to be.
General history of underwater warfare - • Anti-Sub Warfare in WW...
Sources:
www.amazon.co.uk/Depth-Charge...
www.cnrs-scrn.org/northern_ma...
maritime.org/doc/depthcharge9...
www.dreadnoughtproject.org/tfs...)
www.dreadnoughtproject.org/tfs...)
Naval History books, use code 'DRACH' for 25% off - www.usni.org/press/books?f%5B...
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Pinned post for Q&A :)
I recently stumbled across images of the “Anti Mobile Fish Torpedo” from 1871 and models of USS Holland (SS-1) and it surprises me that both appear to have a Kort’s Nozzel despite the Kort’s Nozzel not being invented for another 60 years, is this another “Ictineo II” situation where someone unwittingly invented something decades ahead of it’s time but didn’t realize it?
Would it have been theoretically possible for a ship with a net to capture a submarine and receive prize money for it?
Given that the Hunley caused far more Confederate deaths than Union deaths would you call her a massive strategic failure? Or does deprieving the USN of a fairly major combat unit make up for it?
I still miss the old intro music but I can accept (grudgingly) the new one
I do so miss the original intro to be honest
Hi Drach, you mentioned then number of depth charges issued and the number of claimed kills. That got me thinking, of the weapon systems used to sink ships, which was the most efficient on a per ammo expenditure and which was most cost effective?
"first you had to remove a safety pin" Remember: Once the pin has been pulled, Mr Depth Charge is no longer your friend.
Some destroyers were sunk with live depth charges, resulting in very forceful salt water enemas (and worse) for survivors on the surface 😮
Ouch
@@CorePathway In the movie 'The Cruel Sea' as Compass Rose is sinking one of the leading hands is last seen removing a ditching the primers on the ships arsenal of charges for that very reason.
Just like Bomb in Dark Star lol
Then thou shalt count to three. Three shalt be the number thou shalt count and the number of the counting shalt be three. Four thou shalt not count, neither shalt thou count two, excepting thou shalt then proceed to three. Five is right out!
the idea of a net that catches submarines seems like something out of a cartoon that is used to foil the villan's escape. I just imagine Kaiser Wilhelm being hoisted out of the water and going "Curses! I'll get you next time Royal Navy"
Yet in the late 80s and early 90s there were a fair few incidents of subs dragging down fishing vessels in the north sea
KISS is there for a reason!
Harbours have been protected using submarine deterring netting, at least
And yet the South Koreans did manage to do that quite successfully.
I am sorry sir, that submarine is over the limit. You will have to throw it back.
Pulling up alongside a surfaced submarine and having a large Blacksmith hit it with their hammer is truly one of the most British things ever.
You mispelled "cartoonish".
"Row me closer, I want to hit it with my hammer!"
@@babayaga6376They’re synonyms.
Wait, do we have to change the meme? "Sail me closer. I want to hit it with my hammer!"
Anyone else picturing a sailor-themed version of Robert Baratheon recounting an old story of bashing a submarine, going "gods, I was *strong* then"?
This is just the story of a fisherman progressively getting angrier about not catching anything until they finally break out the dynamite, only on a larger scale.
That story is The Loaded Dog by Banjo Patterson.
Yes- the old DuPont lures solution!
ruclips.net/video/zkIYc6XfPCA/видео.html
Catching whales needs bigger booms.
@@maxpower3990 Henry Lawson, actually
Okay but the idea of a warship cannon-sized rifle grenade go hard, not gonna lie
The ultimate angry carrot
I approve!
I also really like the idea of a "toffee apple" warhead for 12" or 1 3.5" guns.
Imagine the idea of a Churchill AVRE scaled up to 15" MK1...
@@riverraven7359Beeeeeeg badda boom.
9:20 what did you do during the war grandpa? "I was on anti-submarine hammer duty."
Coolest grandpa ever. Grandpa Thor.
@@Shadooe German sonar operator: "Sir, I'm hearing music getting louder and louder. It sounds like...Led Zeppelin."
Captain: "Uh oh, their Norse god anti-submarine hammer operator is coming!"
Literally "banging away at jerry"
Skipper: "Let's blow this popsicle stand, boys!"
Jellicoe: "Kaboom?"
Skipper: "Yes, Jellicoe... KABOOM."
If at least one of the spar torpedo boats didn't have a knight in full jousting gear painted on the side I will be disappointed.😂
better yet one of the crew in full jousting gear to deflect bullets when the u-boat surfaced :P
"Hope was coming for those who weren't equipped with big hammers" Ohh Drach, never change.. :)
Had me kicking my feet and giggling
Much like a Monty Python skit ". . . and now for an entirely different subject."
Much like a Monty Python skit ". . . and now for an entirely different subject."
Depth charges: For when your hammer isn't big enough
Depth charge: big exploding throwing hammer.
I would love to see a video on the invention of the hedgehog! They completely changed the game for anti-submarine warfare, yet I feel like a lot of people aren't even aware of them
I would love it but it really skirts the time-gap that the channel covers.
No it doesn't lol.@@flaviosalatino8192
How so?
They were developed and used in WWII.
@@flaviosalatino8192 ?
@@flaviosalatino8192 It was a development of the Blacker Bomber which led to the PIAT and also the Hedgehog so within the timescale.
Officer: Sir! They have dived under the ocean!
Jelico: Blow it up then.
Officer: Blow what up? Sir.
Jelico: The Ocean.
One of things we historians forget is it isn’t needed to sink a submarine, just keep it from attacking. So while a submarine is avoiding being destroyed, it’s not launching its torpedos. That success is hard to quantify.
All that you need to do is damage the submarine enough so that it goes home for repair.
To be a really effective anti-submarine aircraft, said aircraft needed three things. Range, Range and Range. And the best of the best was the B-24, because of it's range. It sank more than a few submarines. But what made it really effective was its ability to force a submarine to submerge. This alone was very effective. Think about it.
It took months to build a U-boat, years for a crew to train. Once ready for combat, by 1942-1943, a U-boat spent most of its time:
* being repaired and maintained in port.
* sailing to the mid-Atlantic to take up its station.
* sailing back to France to replenish.
* patrolling in a wolf pack, in a long line, searching for a convoy.
all so it could
* receive the report of a convoy.
* spend many hours on the surface, racing to position to attack.
* launching an attack.
In a year, a U-boat might spend 8,680 hours preparing for battle and 80 hours in high speed pursuit and battle. If a single measly B-24, with a crew of under 10, could prevent an 8 hour attack, reducing that U-boat's and the 50 man crew effectiveness by 10% for the whole year. In the most critical hours of the year, a U-boat might have to spend several hours, not racing ahead of an 8 knot convoy at 16 knots, but plod along at 1 to 2 knots, surface hours later and race ahead to end up in the wake of the convoy, missing it. To go down in history as a non event.
Sommewhat covered in the recent Johnny Walker vids. That sort of thing is a mission kill, it's a useful term.
Suppressive fire on a wholly different scale. The 300 Blackout where 300 is the number of pounds of explosive.
Seems similar to a lot of AA guns if the period. If you manage to force the aircraft to abort it's attack or attack in such a way that it misses/is less effective, then you've done your job.
No boom?
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow.
Thank you Lt.Commander.
Ivanova is ALWAYS Right 😉
@@truckerallikatukBoom. Boom, boom. BOOM!
@@jon-paulfilkins7820 Ivanova is God.
Hello Ivanova
Woe to the occasional ship, during WW2, that had their depth charges armed when the ship was sunk. Surviving crew in the water were suddenly unalived when the ship reached detonation depth.
Yup, de-activating the fuzes rapidly became part of the abandon ship drill.
Oh, yikes!!
Wow, that would suck. It's like fishing with dynamite, except you get to be the fish this time.
And sometimes more than just crew in the water - the original _Yorktown_ was finally finished off by one of these blasts.
USS Hamman was sunk at Midway next to the USS Yorktown with the same Japanese torpedo spread. When Hamman sank, her depth charges went off, killing many sailors in the water. I remember reading that one survivor had his watch smashed flat in his pocket.
Thanks again for an explosive study of the depth charge. The racks and K guns were very stturdy devices as i found out last year chipping paint and repainting them on the USS Slater during our work week before you visited. They had a very nice presentation on the use and setting of the mechanism and allowed me to set it. Something i had wanted to do since i first saw them as a kid. Impressive as they had to set and fire patterns off while rolling around in the violent waters during maneuvers at 18-19 years old holding on to the key! Add into these the Hedgehogs and you can see how the U-boats had life very rough in the latter half of the war. The congressman telling about how our subs were simply diving below the Japanese depth charges should have been keel hauled under the Iowa.
Did this congress man have a name and a party?
@@ulfosterberg9116 It really doesn't matter anymore. US politics underwent a certain evolution in the 1960s that has rendered previous labels inaccurate.
Pardon the pun, but no one will ever bring Drach up on ‘lack of depth’ charges.
Criuser: Charges at submarine to ram it!
Submarine: Evades by diving!
Cruiser:...
Cruiser: *Drops anchor!*
honestly? it could work. Probably wouldn't be catastrophic damage but forcing her to surface due to springing a leak is a win.
@@marhawkman303 so much as touch a control surface with the chain, and it´s a mission kill, possible write-off.
@@paavobergmann4920 Well, yeah, IF you hit a control surface. :D
@@marhawkman303 yeah, well, aiming for a rudder with an anchor chain through 45m of North Sea at speed may not be easy or straightforward, granted.
Wait, wouldn't "sub-optimal" condition mean a sub was in perfect condition?
Possibly that would be 'optimal-sub'... 😜
In the same way that subpoena means they got you by the b...s?
Drach, you always cover topics with such depth that this is truly a perfect subject for you.
Nice one 🤣
Yes it's amazing he doesn't hedge his videos and hogs all the information for himself
@@soham6649 Guys 🤣
The man loves to look past the surface and really dive deep into history
🙄🤦♂️
I heard somewhere that the non-adjustable hydrostatic triggers would be modified to go off at deeper depths by cramming soap into the orifice it used to allow water pressure in, delaying activation until the soap dissolved
that would not surprise me, military folks in the field in a war are amazingly inventive.
These 30 minute "Five Minute" guides are fantastic!
The 30 minutes only feels like 5, so from a certain perspective the description is correct :P
Training seagulls to defecate on a raised periscope. Giving a swimmer a bag to jump overboard and tie the bag around the periscope thus blinding it. An yes a hammer given to a man in a rowboat to row out and smash the periscope. All three of these were also genuinely tried as ASW weapons by harbour defence units.
There have been accidents off Scotland when trawlers caught RN SSNs. It doesn't tend to go well for the trawler: an SSN has enough power to just tow it away.
Over on this side of the pond, there have been recent occasions when trawlers have netted Trident missile subs heading out from Bangor, Washington. Crewman: Captain! Why are we going backwards! Captain: Just cut the blasted net!
Greetings and salutations Drax! Thank you for all your fantastic videos, I am an avid fan of yours. I am also an amateur student of Naval History, especially the WW2 period. I am an Icelander, living in Sweden, and I befriended a Brit whose father served in WW2 on the HMS Ashanti. I started to look into the history of that particular ship, and what a story that turned out to be. One of 4 of the 16 RN Tribals that survived the war. Her story reads more or less as "been there, done that". The Norway campaign, (where my friends father was decorated), later the Arctic Convoys (incl possibly PQ 17), definately with PQ 18, down south to the Pedestal Convoy, back up north to the Arctic and then back south taking part in the Torch landings. Later she operated in the Bay of Biscay alongside some of the Canadian Tribals. If ever there was a ship deserving a video of it`s own I would vote for the HMS Ashanti. Again, thanks again for all your fantastic videos, I especially liked your recent ones about AB cunningham and Johnny Walker. All the best to you and yours, Billi Stefansson.
Definitely looking forward to the next installment of "How do you sink something that's already underwater?" 😀
I just spent the last minute laughing at “Yes Jellicoe, kaboom” my Humor is broken
Same
"Smash it with a large hammer" I bet the guy who came up with that is related to Jeremy Clarkson.
The RN hydrostatic pistols most used (~WWII Mks 7/10) were *not* triggered directly by water pressure at the pre-set depth. They exploded based on a *time delay* calibrated to allow the charge to sink to that depth. The surrounding water pressure _operated_ the fuze mechanism but did not _trigger_ it by reaching a set value.
The depth setting dial selected one of several different sized orifices allowing water into the pistol body at different rates - so changing the time taken for internal pressure to rise to the trigger point.This plus several other clever pressure operated features prevented the pressure wave of one charge exploding from setting off the pistol in the others + also served safety and other operational purposes.
OTOH - WWII era USN pistols mostly were true hydrostatically triggered designs.
Honestly, I think a rather effective option for Jellicoe would be to have him convince the Admiralty to assign Beatty to be a liaison to the Kriegsmarine with a goal of teaching them his rather unique ideas regarding safe weapons handling and communications. The problem would have largely resolved itself.
"There's supposed to be a U-boat shattering kaboom!"
I know you probably won't see this, but seriously, thank you for not using the AI-generated voices for reading excerpts of the crew accounts, they ruined being able to enjoy a few of the recent videos you've put up, and I'm happy you're back to reading them aloud yourself.
(also god... that submarine just sitting there provocatively under the water in clear sight made me laugh at how much it feels like how some games'll implement subs as a pay-to-win feature for how OP they are lmao)
The cultural references Drach makes in video titles always makes my day
Your description of the spar torpedo attacking subs and going bonk now has the image of a destroyer going bonk to a submarine conning tower with a baseballbat like in the dog meme. Thanks Drach! Edit wait they later actually tried to do that? History is sranger then fiction.
Geez, that's an intense amount of overkill in these things! "Oh hey a tiny submarine, let's drop a mine designed to sink battlecruisers on it!"
Is it overkill if it works? 🤔
@@dorn0531I mean...yes.
the explosion dissipates with the distance cubed, ergo virtually no charge size short of a kiloton nuke is an overkill.
@@marekstanek112 so, much this^^ depth charges need to deal with the inverse square law. you need a hefty blast radius to work and there's only one way to do that.
@@rashkavar Do elaborate how then.
I love how 'bonking the submarine on its head (with a hammer)' was considered a valid tactic multiple times😂
The 'our own devices' youtube channel has an excellent description and breakdown of a museum hydrostatic pistol.
Some might say that "Our Own Devices " 's video is much more ..."in depth" :D
Full title is "Depth Charge Hydrostatic Pistols: Getting That Sinking Feeling" for anyone interested.
the days when cutting edge military technology came straight from whistlin diesel's design books.
Redneck Engineering: Royal Navy Edition
Preceeded by the ever so short lived; glass bottom battleship for direct sub observation.
You mentioned that in several cases, U-boat personnel were reported to become unable to perform their duties as a consequence of the stress of prolonged depth charge attacks. I wonder if there any surviving accounts from the crew of HMS Meteorite that reflect the sheer terror of being on board such a volatile piece of ironmongery even without being attacked.
The Captain of U-505 actually shot himself dead in the command room in front of the whole crew due to the stress of a prolonged depth charging.
@@nerd1000ify I can believe it. The conditions aboard a U-boat after a long deployment would probably be considered a war crime in the modern age, even without coming under attack.
Cheers Drach, such a nice timing
Draaaaach, yay!
Almost ran out of quality podcasts to please my adhd brain during work
Thanks for covering this topic! It's one of those things I've wondered about but never bothered to look into myself. I especially appreciate the history of countermeasure development leading up to the depth charge.
Few minutes in and I've heard not only the word protuberance used in a sentence but also the phrase, "bonk the submarine on the head". Good sir, you are a legend.
Gilles on his channel Our Own Devices does a nicew bit on the hydrostatic pistol, including dis,antling one to see how the innards work.
Saw that one, very interesting video.
The British in WWII did some analyses of multiple 50 lb depth charges being better than one large depth charge.
As my father used to say when faced with a piece of uncooperative machinery ... "Don't force it. Use a bigger hammer."
You went right past the idea, but ship-gun rifle grenades...? I love that idea lol. It's one of those things that sounds kind of mental...but also like it would work. The big problem would likely be loading the things (I don't see how you'd pull that off with guns high up from the deck). That being said, for deck guns, I can imagine you could have a magazine loading system that could give an alright rate of fire. With rifle grenades, the standard bullet might weigh, say 10g; and the rifle grenade might weigh 600g or more. If we kept that same scaling for ease, but only made the grenade fifty times the weight (to lessen stress on the gun) of a standard 102mm round, that could be a 750kg grenade. And you could make them way lighter, or a bit heavier (proportionately). You'd clearly need a powered system to load them, but I could at least see that being done for the foremost and aftmost main guns of a destroyer or smaller ship.
There's a world out there where, instead of Hedgehog and Squid, the RN just went for firing 1000kg+ destroyer grenades off the main guns.
Dual-purpose guns could just fire at high angles, howitzer style and not use much charge, I guess. Wouldn't need to attempt to muzzle-load a tonne of explosive :)
This hit me deep in feels. I am deeply moved.
Shaken, even
But not stirred.
Interesting historical note: the photo at 2:28 is taken in the Solent off Portsmouth harbor entrance with the Solent forts in the background. Probably Spitbank fort and horse sands fort on the right and No Man lands fort on the left. Portsmouth was the home port of the 1st submarine flotilla in the Royal Navy
Yes, Rico Kaboom! Penguins of Madagascar. They probably use depth charges to get sardines.
Thank you, Drachinifel.
Re: the sub-catching trawler net
Interesting idea. I like the enthusiasm. I really like the aggression. Not too sure about the implementation…
A Drachinifel video for my birthday? Yes please
I recall as a child spearfishing for pike through ice. I would sit in a small dark shanty over a large rectangular hole through perhaps a foot of ice, and pike would come by to eat the minnows we were using as bait or to interrogate the decoy.
I often wondered as I waited for a big enough fish to unleash my spear against just what it must have been like to be a pike, when suddenly from above a steel spear descends.
I still don’t know, but I think submariners might have had an inkling.
I rarely comment, but I just wanted to say I love your titles. And yes, they are very effective at getting me to click your videos, without being clickbait. Thank you!
The return of Jellicoe's Crushing Hand Of God (Prototype)
I've always been interested in Submarines and anti-Submarine warfare, so I thank you for this informative Video.
A great episode and now additional information I can use as a volunteer at the Oregon Military Museum concerning the "K" gun depth charge display we have. Thank you!
I came here for "guys with hammers in boats chasing periscopes" and was not disappointed.
The hull smashing hammersmiths taking an orca approach adds a certain diversity to the armoury.
Solid!
Top KEK!
Peace be with you.
Fantastic story, loved every minute!
Imagine being the guy that actually managed to whack a periscope with a hammer. For the rest of his life he'd be able to say he disabled an enemy submarine with nothing but a hammer.
Thanks. Most interesting details added to what I knew.
.
Never knew there were so many prototypes for depth charges. This was really interesting.
Excellent content as always
Thanks Drach
SPHERE OF DOOM !!!!
Yeah.....I'm imagining a submarine being lifted bodily out of the water by enough explosives to break a battleships back.
I remember, in Destination Tokyo, they portrayed depth charges as making two clicks before detonating, rather than one. Does anybody know why?
At shallow depth one would be the detonator locking into place, the other would be the striker firing.
Depending on the exact model, it could also be the striker priming and then firing.
@@Drachinifel Thank you for the reply. I certainly wasn't expecting the answer to come from you!
I remember that some of them had more time between clicks than others. The closer together the clicks were, the more the sub shook and took damage.
It could be that this was an audience cue, but it could also have reflected something about Japanese depth charges, their behavior at different depth settings, et cetera.
@@CiaranMaxwell It will be audience cue- damage done depends on distance, in crude terms, and the depth charge not know that detail, so timing of clicks cannot affect damage in RL.
@@keefymckeefface8330 Oh, of course. My implied question was: Does target depth affect click timing, or is it _entirely_ audience cue?
It was probably the latter. There'd be some depth charges going off at the right depth, but far away. Some too high, some too low.
I suppose I just wasn't explicit enough. ^_^
Smile and wave boys, smile and wave.
Happy Wednesday and thanks for more explosive education!
You may want to look up Tasting History with Max Miller this week. His current edition is what the crew on a German WWI submarine ate.
Some of the early attempts to battle submarines reminds me of the American cartoon Wiley E Coyote and his Acme blasting equipment trying to catch the Roadrunner.
You could make the argument that Hedgehog is a releasable spar torpedo.
As usual, wonderful ❤
I get the title reference and I love it!
excellent video, thank you
Fantastic work 👏😎
Fascinating video.
The idea for depth charges were pioneered by frustrated fishermen. I was there. Me, cousin Merl and our dog Geech (who later got covered in concrete) hadn’t caught a thing. So, we decided to drop a barrel of Acme TNT 🧨 in the pond. When all the fish floated up, a lightbulb went off and we ran off to tell Secretary Stimson.
I very much enjoyed your video and I gave it a Thumbs Up
Perfect thanks!
Seeing that net boom - Blondie Hasler named his trial 'Cockle' canoe group as the 'Boom Defence Patrol' as a cover while they practiced.
Imagine being the lucky fellows tasked with recovering the contact-fused paravanes after an unsuccessful troll. 😬
Good vid. Thanks
I would be interested to see a video on the history of minesweeping! Im curious as to how the techniques changed over time (if at all)
“I say ,Helmsman make turns for 30 knots. I wish to introduce that submarine to our spar torpedo.”
Great video
Interesting video!
Isn't sub-optimal the optimal condition for a submarine?
Awesome. I'm up to the titles!
I don't know if you've already done this, but I'd love to see you talk about the development of damage control in a similar vein to this! Was damage control around in the age of sail/ what did it look like? I've seen a lot of your videos on damage control in ww2 and would like to hear the rest of the story!
now we need a presentation on the development and evolution of sonar/asdic/hydrophones
Brings a whole new meaning to hammer time
And there I was, watching Dick Dastardly trying to catch a pigeon and thinking "man, that is insane, no one in their right mind would do that". I clearly underestimated the British and their ingenuity!
Would love a video on the differences and evolution of ww1 vs ww2 destroyers (sonar, radar, armor, radar, speed, GRT, etc). Also a similar video on uboats (german) would be very interesting to learn. Great video 👍
The early weapons for anti sub warfare kind of reminds of a Roadrunner and Coyote cartoon made by Acme.
Really enjoy your channel, your content is a treat to watch. Now for the business end of the discussion. Suggestion: SS Fort Stikine and its fate.
Thank you again for the awesome info in history! I've always been interested in the little things like this! Keep them coming! By far one of the best researchers of history!