I recently stumbled across images of the “Anti Mobile Fish Torpedo” from 1871 and models of USS Holland (SS-1) and it surprises me that both appear to have a Kort’s Nozzel despite the Kort’s Nozzel not being invented for another 60 years, is this another “Ictineo II” situation where someone unwittingly invented something decades ahead of it’s time but didn’t realize it?
Given that the Hunley caused far more Confederate deaths than Union deaths would you call her a massive strategic failure? Or does deprieving the USN of a fairly major combat unit make up for it?
Hi Drach, you mentioned then number of depth charges issued and the number of claimed kills. That got me thinking, of the weapon systems used to sink ships, which was the most efficient on a per ammo expenditure and which was most cost effective?
@@CorePathway In the movie 'The Cruel Sea' as Compass Rose is sinking one of the leading hands is last seen removing a ditching the primers on the ships arsenal of charges for that very reason.
Then thou shalt count to three. Three shalt be the number thou shalt count and the number of the counting shalt be three. Four thou shalt not count, neither shalt thou count two, excepting thou shalt then proceed to three. Five is right out!
This is just the story of a fisherman progressively getting angrier about not catching anything until they finally break out the dynamite, only on a larger scale.
the idea of a net that catches submarines seems like something out of a cartoon that is used to foil the villan's escape. I just imagine Kaiser Wilhelm being hoisted out of the water and going "Curses! I'll get you next time Royal Navy"
@@Shadooe German sonar operator: "Sir, I'm hearing music getting louder and louder. It sounds like...Led Zeppelin." Captain: "Uh oh, their Norse god anti-submarine hammer operator is coming!"
I would love to see a video on the invention of the hedgehog! They completely changed the game for anti-submarine warfare, yet I feel like a lot of people aren't even aware of them
One of things we historians forget is it isn’t needed to sink a submarine, just keep it from attacking. So while a submarine is avoiding being destroyed, it’s not launching its torpedos. That success is hard to quantify.
To be a really effective anti-submarine aircraft, said aircraft needed three things. Range, Range and Range. And the best of the best was the B-24, because of it's range. It sank more than a few submarines. But what made it really effective was its ability to force a submarine to submerge. This alone was very effective. Think about it. It took months to build a U-boat, years for a crew to train. Once ready for combat, by 1942-1943, a U-boat spent most of its time: * being repaired and maintained in port. * sailing to the mid-Atlantic to take up its station. * sailing back to France to replenish. * patrolling in a wolf pack, in a long line, searching for a convoy. all so it could * receive the report of a convoy. * spend many hours on the surface, racing to position to attack. * launching an attack. In a year, a U-boat might spend 8,680 hours preparing for battle and 80 hours in high speed pursuit and battle. If a single measly B-24, with a crew of under 10, could prevent an 8 hour attack, reducing that U-boat's and the 50 man crew effectiveness by 10% for the whole year. In the most critical hours of the year, a U-boat might have to spend several hours, not racing ahead of an 8 knot convoy at 16 knots, but plod along at 1 to 2 knots, surface hours later and race ahead to end up in the wake of the convoy, missing it. To go down in history as a non event.
Seems similar to a lot of AA guns if the period. If you manage to force the aircraft to abort it's attack or attack in such a way that it misses/is less effective, then you've done your job.
Thanks again for an explosive study of the depth charge. The racks and K guns were very stturdy devices as i found out last year chipping paint and repainting them on the USS Slater during our work week before you visited. They had a very nice presentation on the use and setting of the mechanism and allowed me to set it. Something i had wanted to do since i first saw them as a kid. Impressive as they had to set and fire patterns off while rolling around in the violent waters during maneuvers at 18-19 years old holding on to the key! Add into these the Hedgehogs and you can see how the U-boats had life very rough in the latter half of the war. The congressman telling about how our subs were simply diving below the Japanese depth charges should have been keel hauled under the Iowa.
@@ulfosterberg9116 It really doesn't matter anymore. US politics underwent a certain evolution in the 1960s that has rendered previous labels inaccurate.
Greetings and salutations Drax! Thank you for all your fantastic videos, I am an avid fan of yours. I am also an amateur student of Naval History, especially the WW2 period. I am an Icelander, living in Sweden, and I befriended a Brit whose father served in WW2 on the HMS Ashanti. I started to look into the history of that particular ship, and what a story that turned out to be. One of 4 of the 16 RN Tribals that survived the war. Her story reads more or less as "been there, done that". The Norway campaign, (where my friends father was decorated), later the Arctic Convoys (incl possibly PQ 17), definately with PQ 18, down south to the Pedestal Convoy, back up north to the Arctic and then back south taking part in the Torch landings. Later she operated in the Bay of Biscay alongside some of the Canadian Tribals. If ever there was a ship deserving a video of it`s own I would vote for the HMS Ashanti. Again, thanks again for all your fantastic videos, I especially liked your recent ones about AB cunningham and Johnny Walker. All the best to you and yours, Billi Stefansson.
@@marekstanek112 so, much this^^ depth charges need to deal with the inverse square law. you need a hefty blast radius to work and there's only one way to do that.
Woe to the occasional ship, during WW2, that had their depth charges armed when the ship was sunk. Surviving crew in the water were suddenly unalived when the ship reached detonation depth.
USS Hamman was sunk at Midway next to the USS Yorktown with the same Japanese torpedo spread. When Hamman sank, her depth charges went off, killing many sailors in the water. I remember reading that one survivor had his watch smashed flat in his pocket.
I heard somewhere that the non-adjustable hydrostatic triggers would be modified to go off at deeper depths by cramming soap into the orifice it used to allow water pressure in, delaying activation until the soap dissolved
Training seagulls to defecate on a raised periscope. Giving a swimmer a bag to jump overboard and tie the bag around the periscope thus blinding it. An yes a hammer given to a man in a rowboat to row out and smash the periscope. All three of these were also genuinely tried as ASW weapons by harbour defence units.
Nah, you don't need a depth charge if your hammer is to small. I will quote a guy who worked for me and was an engineer in ww2. He always said, if your working on something using a hammer and it doesn't fit, Just get a big hammer, and that will work. heheh (late Frank T. Webber) take it light --KB
There have been accidents off Scotland when trawlers caught RN SSNs. It doesn't tend to go well for the trawler: an SSN has enough power to just tow it away.
Over on this side of the pond, there have been recent occasions when trawlers have netted Trident missile subs heading out from Bangor, Washington. Crewman: Captain! Why are we going backwards! Captain: Just cut the blasted net!
I have heard (from a submariner) those are not always complete accidents. There is generous compensation for damaged fishing gear, so a sub can be a very profitable catch.
Some might say that "Our Own Devices " 's video is much more ..."in depth" :D Full title is "Depth Charge Hydrostatic Pistols: Getting That Sinking Feeling" for anyone interested.
Honestly, I think a rather effective option for Jellicoe would be to have him convince the Admiralty to assign Beatty to be a liaison to the Kriegsmarine with a goal of teaching them his rather unique ideas regarding safe weapons handling and communications. The problem would have largely resolved itself.
Interesting historical note: the photo at 2:28 is taken in the Solent off Portsmouth harbor entrance with the Solent forts in the background. Probably Spitbank fort and horse sands fort on the right and No Man lands fort on the left. Portsmouth was the home port of the 1st submarine flotilla in the Royal Navy
Mental image of Muttley trying to stiffle a wheezing chuckle as Dick Dastardly pokes his head up out of a conning tower and Penelope in a stunning sailor outfit bops him with a giant mallet.
I know you probably won't see this, but seriously, thank you for not using the AI-generated voices for reading excerpts of the crew accounts, they ruined being able to enjoy a few of the recent videos you've put up, and I'm happy you're back to reading them aloud yourself. (also god... that submarine just sitting there provocatively under the water in clear sight made me laugh at how much it feels like how some games'll implement subs as a pay-to-win feature for how OP they are lmao)
I rarely comment, but I just wanted to say I love your titles. And yes, they are very effective at getting me to click your videos, without being clickbait. Thank you!
You mentioned that in several cases, U-boat personnel were reported to become unable to perform their duties as a consequence of the stress of prolonged depth charge attacks. I wonder if there any surviving accounts from the crew of HMS Meteorite that reflect the sheer terror of being on board such a volatile piece of ironmongery even without being attacked.
@@nerd1000ify I can believe it. The conditions aboard a U-boat after a long deployment would probably be considered a war crime in the modern age, even without coming under attack.
You went right past the idea, but ship-gun rifle grenades...? I love that idea lol. It's one of those things that sounds kind of mental...but also like it would work. The big problem would likely be loading the things (I don't see how you'd pull that off with guns high up from the deck). That being said, for deck guns, I can imagine you could have a magazine loading system that could give an alright rate of fire. With rifle grenades, the standard bullet might weigh, say 10g; and the rifle grenade might weigh 600g or more. If we kept that same scaling for ease, but only made the grenade fifty times the weight (to lessen stress on the gun) of a standard 102mm round, that could be a 750kg grenade. And you could make them way lighter, or a bit heavier (proportionately). You'd clearly need a powered system to load them, but I could at least see that being done for the foremost and aftmost main guns of a destroyer or smaller ship. There's a world out there where, instead of Hedgehog and Squid, the RN just went for firing 1000kg+ destroyer grenades off the main guns.
Dual-purpose guns could just fire at high angles, howitzer style and not use much charge, I guess. Wouldn't need to attempt to muzzle-load a tonne of explosive :)
A great episode and now additional information I can use as a volunteer at the Oregon Military Museum concerning the "K" gun depth charge display we have. Thank you!
Thanks for covering this topic! It's one of those things I've wondered about but never bothered to look into myself. I especially appreciate the history of countermeasure development leading up to the depth charge. Few minutes in and I've heard not only the word protuberance used in a sentence but also the phrase, "bonk the submarine on the head". Good sir, you are a legend.
Your description of the spar torpedo attacking subs and going bonk now has the image of a destroyer going bonk to a submarine conning tower with a baseballbat like in the dog meme. Thanks Drach! Edit wait they later actually tried to do that? History is sranger then fiction.
There was actually a plan presented to the Union navy to use a large powered barge with a tower holding a grappling claw and an immense hammer to deal with the Confederate ironclad Virginia. Fortunately, someone decided that maybe the Monitor might be a better idea.
And there I was, watching Dick Dastardly trying to catch a pigeon and thinking "man, that is insane, no one in their right mind would do that". I clearly underestimated the British and their ingenuity!
The 'K'gun was the mortar that launched the dept charges fired to either side of the ship dropping the charges. I might be the last person to fire one, this happened in 1967 when out left over WW2 seaplane tender was being decommissioned, we had one left over such item dating back to said war. As the new gunnery officer this job was delegated to me, the engineer wished me luck as the steel deck under the wood decking had never been inspected. We went to 'warp' speed, I pulled the line, it went bang, the charge flew to the side and sunk, a large 'boom' was heard, and an immense splash was noted. We turned and returned to the area and noted a large fish kill. There was no damage to the ship (or me). The Navy did NOT want this thing back.
At shallow depth one would be the detonator locking into place, the other would be the striker firing. Depending on the exact model, it could also be the striker priming and then firing.
@@Drachinifel Thank you for the reply. I certainly wasn't expecting the answer to come from you! I remember that some of them had more time between clicks than others. The closer together the clicks were, the more the sub shook and took damage. It could be that this was an audience cue, but it could also have reflected something about Japanese depth charges, their behavior at different depth settings, et cetera.
@@CiaranMaxwell It will be audience cue- damage done depends on distance, in crude terms, and the depth charge not know that detail, so timing of clicks cannot affect damage in RL.
@@keefymckeefface8330 Oh, of course. My implied question was: Does target depth affect click timing, or is it _entirely_ audience cue? It was probably the latter. There'd be some depth charges going off at the right depth, but far away. Some too high, some too low. I suppose I just wasn't explicit enough. ^_^
Imagine being the guy that actually managed to whack a periscope with a hammer. For the rest of his life he'd be able to say he disabled an enemy submarine with nothing but a hammer.
I recall as a child spearfishing for pike through ice. I would sit in a small dark shanty over a large rectangular hole through perhaps a foot of ice, and pike would come by to eat the minnows we were using as bait or to interrogate the decoy. I often wondered as I waited for a big enough fish to unleash my spear against just what it must have been like to be a pike, when suddenly from above a steel spear descends. I still don’t know, but I think submariners might have had an inkling.
Excellent video. I have a few questions. It appears to me that a better system than having the guess the depth of a submarine would be to just drop a 'bomb' and if it hit something, explode. Like a 'hedgehog bomb' of World War II which uses a 'strike trigger'. With a 'strike trigger' you won't be able to sink a submarine that you were off by 10 horizontal feet but guessed correctly its depth to within 10 feet. But you could sink a submarine with a bomb that did happen to strike a submarine, even if your guess of its depth was off by 100 or more feet. Questions for Drachinfel: 1. Is it correct that a 'strike trigger' bomb would have been more effective than a 'depth trigger' bomb? 2. If so, did they (during World War I) realize a 'strike trigger' bomb would be more effective than a 'depth trigger' bomb? 3. With 1910's technology, did they know how to design a 'strike trigger' bomb that was reliable and safe for the crews? Thank you for your time.
9:10 -- Blacksmiths thumping surfaced German submarines was an improvement over the skipper's earlier proposal --namely, writing an angry letter to The Times.
From the numbers near the end of the video I'm getting about 2000 depth charges issued per submarine sunk. "Issued" not "used" but seems a big number anyway. Hope that future installments will compare the number dropped (does one "drop" depth charges even if they're being fired into the air first?) against submarines sunk other theatres / conflicts.
I was looking. I don't think drak has done a video on q ships. Look up q ships though. You'll find a lot of it the modern q-ship as well. Being proposed to use against Somali pirates.
@@paulwoodman5131proposed? ;) jk, sort of - I remember Clive Cussler was writing about a privately owned ship kitted out to be a trap for pirates before he passed away. Be a great idea if it were put into practice...
Thank you again for the awesome info in history! I've always been interested in the little things like this! Keep them coming! By far one of the best researchers of history!
I don't know if you've already done this, but I'd love to see you talk about the development of damage control in a similar vein to this! Was damage control around in the age of sail/ what did it look like? I've seen a lot of your videos on damage control in ww2 and would like to hear the rest of the story!
Squid/Limbo ASW mortar too - threw a pattern of full depthcharges forwards & outwards a bit - was my immediate thought. So many ww1 ideas - and lessons - disappeared interwar.
The idea for depth charges were pioneered by frustrated fishermen. I was there. Me, cousin Merl and our dog Geech (who later got covered in concrete) hadn’t caught a thing. So, we decided to drop a barrel of Acme TNT 🧨 in the pond. When all the fish floated up, a lightbulb went off and we ran off to tell Secretary Stimson.
Some of the early attempts to battle submarines reminds me of the American cartoon Wiley E Coyote and his Acme blasting equipment trying to catch the Roadrunner.
The dissolving pellet is what we use today to activate our inflatable life-vests. They can also degrade if exposed to repeated temperature cycles, so if you hang a life-vest above a heater, it might at some point just blow up. Then you can go and reload the damn thing, urgh.
Great stuff. Looking forward to the next part already! Will there be details on Hedgehog? I always think it seems to get overlooked. My Grandfather was ASDIC operator on HMS Wallace. I wonder if there are records of whether he located any U-Boats?
Pinned post for Q&A :)
I recently stumbled across images of the “Anti Mobile Fish Torpedo” from 1871 and models of USS Holland (SS-1) and it surprises me that both appear to have a Kort’s Nozzel despite the Kort’s Nozzel not being invented for another 60 years, is this another “Ictineo II” situation where someone unwittingly invented something decades ahead of it’s time but didn’t realize it?
Would it have been theoretically possible for a ship with a net to capture a submarine and receive prize money for it?
Given that the Hunley caused far more Confederate deaths than Union deaths would you call her a massive strategic failure? Or does deprieving the USN of a fairly major combat unit make up for it?
I still miss the old intro music but I can accept (grudgingly) the new one
I do so miss the original intro to be honest
Hi Drach, you mentioned then number of depth charges issued and the number of claimed kills. That got me thinking, of the weapon systems used to sink ships, which was the most efficient on a per ammo expenditure and which was most cost effective?
"first you had to remove a safety pin" Remember: Once the pin has been pulled, Mr Depth Charge is no longer your friend.
Some destroyers were sunk with live depth charges, resulting in very forceful salt water enemas (and worse) for survivors on the surface 😮
Ouch
@@CorePathway In the movie 'The Cruel Sea' as Compass Rose is sinking one of the leading hands is last seen removing a ditching the primers on the ships arsenal of charges for that very reason.
Just like Bomb in Dark Star lol
Then thou shalt count to three. Three shalt be the number thou shalt count and the number of the counting shalt be three. Four thou shalt not count, neither shalt thou count two, excepting thou shalt then proceed to three. Five is right out!
Pulling up alongside a surfaced submarine and having a large Blacksmith hit it with their hammer is truly one of the most British things ever.
You mispelled "cartoonish".
"Row me closer, I want to hit it with my hammer!"
@@babayaga6376They’re synonyms.
Wait, do we have to change the meme? "Sail me closer. I want to hit it with my hammer!"
Anyone else picturing a sailor-themed version of Robert Baratheon recounting an old story of bashing a submarine, going "gods, I was *strong* then"?
This is just the story of a fisherman progressively getting angrier about not catching anything until they finally break out the dynamite, only on a larger scale.
That story is The Loaded Dog by Banjo Patterson.
Yes- the old DuPont lures solution!
ruclips.net/video/zkIYc6XfPCA/видео.html
Catching whales needs bigger booms.
@@maxpower3990 Henry Lawson, actually
the idea of a net that catches submarines seems like something out of a cartoon that is used to foil the villan's escape. I just imagine Kaiser Wilhelm being hoisted out of the water and going "Curses! I'll get you next time Royal Navy"
Yet in the late 80s and early 90s there were a fair few incidents of subs dragging down fishing vessels in the north sea
KISS is there for a reason!
Harbours have been protected using submarine deterring netting, at least
And yet the South Koreans did manage to do that quite successfully.
I am sorry sir, that submarine is over the limit. You will have to throw it back.
9:20 what did you do during the war grandpa? "I was on anti-submarine hammer duty."
Coolest grandpa ever. Grandpa Thor.
@@Shadooe German sonar operator: "Sir, I'm hearing music getting louder and louder. It sounds like...Led Zeppelin."
Captain: "Uh oh, their Norse god anti-submarine hammer operator is coming!"
Literally "banging away at jerry"
"Hope was coming for those who weren't equipped with big hammers" Ohh Drach, never change.. :)
Had me kicking my feet and giggling
Much like a Monty Python skit ". . . and now for an entirely different subject."
Much like a Monty Python skit ". . . and now for an entirely different subject."
Officer: Sir! They have dived under the ocean!
Jelico: Blow it up then.
Officer: Blow what up? Sir.
Jelico: The Ocean.
Skipper: "Let's blow this popsicle stand, boys!"
Jellicoe: "Kaboom?"
Skipper: "Yes, Jellicoe... KABOOM."
I'm guessing that's a reference to Star Trek TNG?
@@phillipdavidhaskett7513I think it's Penguins of Madagascar, lmao
@@intruativeI thought it was more like ratchet and clank
@@phillipdavidhaskett7513 No
@@intruativeYes
Okay but the idea of a warship cannon-sized rifle grenade go hard, not gonna lie
The ultimate angry carrot
I approve!
I also really like the idea of a "toffee apple" warhead for 12" or 1 3.5" guns.
Imagine the idea of a Churchill AVRE scaled up to 15" MK1...
@@riverraven7359Beeeeeeg badda boom.
I would love to see a video on the invention of the hedgehog! They completely changed the game for anti-submarine warfare, yet I feel like a lot of people aren't even aware of them
I would love it but it really skirts the time-gap that the channel covers.
No it doesn't lol.@@flaviosalatino8192
How so?
They were developed and used in WWII.
@@flaviosalatino8192 ?
@@flaviosalatino8192 It was a development of the Blacker Bomber which led to the PIAT and also the Hedgehog so within the timescale.
One of things we historians forget is it isn’t needed to sink a submarine, just keep it from attacking. So while a submarine is avoiding being destroyed, it’s not launching its torpedos. That success is hard to quantify.
All that you need to do is damage the submarine enough so that it goes home for repair.
To be a really effective anti-submarine aircraft, said aircraft needed three things. Range, Range and Range. And the best of the best was the B-24, because of it's range. It sank more than a few submarines. But what made it really effective was its ability to force a submarine to submerge. This alone was very effective. Think about it.
It took months to build a U-boat, years for a crew to train. Once ready for combat, by 1942-1943, a U-boat spent most of its time:
* being repaired and maintained in port.
* sailing to the mid-Atlantic to take up its station.
* sailing back to France to replenish.
* patrolling in a wolf pack, in a long line, searching for a convoy.
all so it could
* receive the report of a convoy.
* spend many hours on the surface, racing to position to attack.
* launching an attack.
In a year, a U-boat might spend 8,680 hours preparing for battle and 80 hours in high speed pursuit and battle. If a single measly B-24, with a crew of under 10, could prevent an 8 hour attack, reducing that U-boat's and the 50 man crew effectiveness by 10% for the whole year. In the most critical hours of the year, a U-boat might have to spend several hours, not racing ahead of an 8 knot convoy at 16 knots, but plod along at 1 to 2 knots, surface hours later and race ahead to end up in the wake of the convoy, missing it. To go down in history as a non event.
Sommewhat covered in the recent Johnny Walker vids. That sort of thing is a mission kill, it's a useful term.
Suppressive fire on a wholly different scale. The 300 Blackout where 300 is the number of pounds of explosive.
Seems similar to a lot of AA guns if the period. If you manage to force the aircraft to abort it's attack or attack in such a way that it misses/is less effective, then you've done your job.
Drach, you always cover topics with such depth that this is truly a perfect subject for you.
Nice one 🤣
Yes it's amazing he doesn't hedge his videos and hogs all the information for himself
@@soham6649 Guys 🤣
The man loves to look past the surface and really dive deep into history
🙄🤦♂️
Thanks again for an explosive study of the depth charge. The racks and K guns were very stturdy devices as i found out last year chipping paint and repainting them on the USS Slater during our work week before you visited. They had a very nice presentation on the use and setting of the mechanism and allowed me to set it. Something i had wanted to do since i first saw them as a kid. Impressive as they had to set and fire patterns off while rolling around in the violent waters during maneuvers at 18-19 years old holding on to the key! Add into these the Hedgehogs and you can see how the U-boats had life very rough in the latter half of the war. The congressman telling about how our subs were simply diving below the Japanese depth charges should have been keel hauled under the Iowa.
Did this congress man have a name and a party?
@@ulfosterberg9116 It really doesn't matter anymore. US politics underwent a certain evolution in the 1960s that has rendered previous labels inaccurate.
@@davidforbes7772 you still believe that myth?
These 30 minute "Five Minute" guides are fantastic!
The 30 minutes only feels like 5, so from a certain perspective the description is correct :P
If at least one of the spar torpedo boats didn't have a knight in full jousting gear painted on the side I will be disappointed.😂
better yet one of the crew in full jousting gear to deflect bullets when the u-boat surfaced :P
Greetings and salutations Drax! Thank you for all your fantastic videos, I am an avid fan of yours. I am also an amateur student of Naval History, especially the WW2 period. I am an Icelander, living in Sweden, and I befriended a Brit whose father served in WW2 on the HMS Ashanti. I started to look into the history of that particular ship, and what a story that turned out to be. One of 4 of the 16 RN Tribals that survived the war. Her story reads more or less as "been there, done that". The Norway campaign, (where my friends father was decorated), later the Arctic Convoys (incl possibly PQ 17), definately with PQ 18, down south to the Pedestal Convoy, back up north to the Arctic and then back south taking part in the Torch landings. Later she operated in the Bay of Biscay alongside some of the Canadian Tribals. If ever there was a ship deserving a video of it`s own I would vote for the HMS Ashanti. Again, thanks again for all your fantastic videos, I especially liked your recent ones about AB cunningham and Johnny Walker. All the best to you and yours, Billi Stefansson.
Geez, that's an intense amount of overkill in these things! "Oh hey a tiny submarine, let's drop a mine designed to sink battlecruisers on it!"
Is it overkill if it works? 🤔
@@dorn0531I mean...yes.
the explosion dissipates with the distance cubed, ergo virtually no charge size short of a kiloton nuke is an overkill.
@@marekstanek112 so, much this^^ depth charges need to deal with the inverse square law. you need a hefty blast radius to work and there's only one way to do that.
@@rashkavar Do elaborate how then.
Woe to the occasional ship, during WW2, that had their depth charges armed when the ship was sunk. Surviving crew in the water were suddenly unalived when the ship reached detonation depth.
Yup, de-activating the fuzes rapidly became part of the abandon ship drill.
Oh, yikes!!
Wow, that would suck. It's like fishing with dynamite, except you get to be the fish this time.
And sometimes more than just crew in the water - the original _Yorktown_ was finally finished off by one of these blasts.
USS Hamman was sunk at Midway next to the USS Yorktown with the same Japanese torpedo spread. When Hamman sank, her depth charges went off, killing many sailors in the water. I remember reading that one survivor had his watch smashed flat in his pocket.
I heard somewhere that the non-adjustable hydrostatic triggers would be modified to go off at deeper depths by cramming soap into the orifice it used to allow water pressure in, delaying activation until the soap dissolved
that would not surprise me, military folks in the field in a war are amazingly inventive.
Training seagulls to defecate on a raised periscope. Giving a swimmer a bag to jump overboard and tie the bag around the periscope thus blinding it. An yes a hammer given to a man in a rowboat to row out and smash the periscope. All three of these were also genuinely tried as ASW weapons by harbour defence units.
Depth charges: For when your hammer isn't big enough
Depth charge: big exploding throwing hammer.
Nah, you don't need a depth charge if your hammer is to small. I will quote a guy who worked for me and was an engineer in ww2. He always said, if your working on something using a hammer and it doesn't fit, Just get a big hammer, and that will work. heheh (late Frank T. Webber) take it light --KB
Criuser: Charges at submarine to ram it!
Submarine: Evades by diving!
Cruiser:...
Cruiser: *Drops anchor!*
honestly? it could work. Probably wouldn't be catastrophic damage but forcing her to surface due to springing a leak is a win.
@@marhawkman303 so much as touch a control surface with the chain, and it´s a mission kill, possible write-off.
@@paavobergmann4920 Well, yeah, IF you hit a control surface. :D
@@marhawkman303 yeah, well, aiming for a rudder with an anchor chain through 45m of North Sea at speed may not be easy or straightforward, granted.
No boom?
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow.
Thank you Lt.Commander.
Ivanova is ALWAYS Right 😉
@@truckerallikatukBoom. Boom, boom. BOOM!
@@jon-paulfilkins7820 Ivanova is God.
Hello Ivanova
I just spent the last minute laughing at “Yes Jellicoe, kaboom” my Humor is broken
Same
There have been accidents off Scotland when trawlers caught RN SSNs. It doesn't tend to go well for the trawler: an SSN has enough power to just tow it away.
Over on this side of the pond, there have been recent occasions when trawlers have netted Trident missile subs heading out from Bangor, Washington. Crewman: Captain! Why are we going backwards! Captain: Just cut the blasted net!
I have heard (from a submariner) those are not always complete accidents. There is generous compensation for damaged fishing gear, so a sub can be a very profitable catch.
I feel like the North Korean submarine incident is relevant here, but I assume that most people here already know all about it.
The 'our own devices' youtube channel has an excellent description and breakdown of a museum hydrostatic pistol.
Some might say that "Our Own Devices " 's video is much more ..."in depth" :D
Full title is "Depth Charge Hydrostatic Pistols: Getting That Sinking Feeling" for anyone interested.
Honestly, I think a rather effective option for Jellicoe would be to have him convince the Admiralty to assign Beatty to be a liaison to the Kriegsmarine with a goal of teaching them his rather unique ideas regarding safe weapons handling and communications. The problem would have largely resolved itself.
The cultural references Drach makes in video titles always makes my day
Interesting historical note: the photo at 2:28 is taken in the Solent off Portsmouth harbor entrance with the Solent forts in the background. Probably Spitbank fort and horse sands fort on the right and No Man lands fort on the left. Portsmouth was the home port of the 1st submarine flotilla in the Royal Navy
Cheers Drach, such a nice timing
This hit me deep in feels. I am deeply moved.
Shaken, even
But not stirred.
Definitely looking forward to the next installment of "How do you sink something that's already underwater?" 😀
Mental image of Muttley trying to stiffle a wheezing chuckle as Dick Dastardly pokes his head up out of a conning tower and Penelope in a stunning sailor outfit bops him with a giant mallet.
I know you probably won't see this, but seriously, thank you for not using the AI-generated voices for reading excerpts of the crew accounts, they ruined being able to enjoy a few of the recent videos you've put up, and I'm happy you're back to reading them aloud yourself.
(also god... that submarine just sitting there provocatively under the water in clear sight made me laugh at how much it feels like how some games'll implement subs as a pay-to-win feature for how OP they are lmao)
I rarely comment, but I just wanted to say I love your titles. And yes, they are very effective at getting me to click your videos, without being clickbait. Thank you!
Draaaaach, yay!
Almost ran out of quality podcasts to please my adhd brain during work
Gilles on his channel Our Own Devices does a nicew bit on the hydrostatic pistol, including dis,antling one to see how the innards work.
Saw that one, very interesting video.
You mentioned that in several cases, U-boat personnel were reported to become unable to perform their duties as a consequence of the stress of prolonged depth charge attacks. I wonder if there any surviving accounts from the crew of HMS Meteorite that reflect the sheer terror of being on board such a volatile piece of ironmongery even without being attacked.
The Captain of U-505 actually shot himself dead in the command room in front of the whole crew due to the stress of a prolonged depth charging.
@@nerd1000ify I can believe it. The conditions aboard a U-boat after a long deployment would probably be considered a war crime in the modern age, even without coming under attack.
Pardon the pun, but no one will ever bring Drach up on ‘lack of depth’ charges.
Never knew there were so many prototypes for depth charges. This was really interesting.
Wait, wouldn't "sub-optimal" condition mean a sub was in perfect condition?
Possibly that would be 'optimal-sub'... 😜
In the same way that subpoena means they got you by the b...s?
perfection
You went right past the idea, but ship-gun rifle grenades...? I love that idea lol. It's one of those things that sounds kind of mental...but also like it would work. The big problem would likely be loading the things (I don't see how you'd pull that off with guns high up from the deck). That being said, for deck guns, I can imagine you could have a magazine loading system that could give an alright rate of fire. With rifle grenades, the standard bullet might weigh, say 10g; and the rifle grenade might weigh 600g or more. If we kept that same scaling for ease, but only made the grenade fifty times the weight (to lessen stress on the gun) of a standard 102mm round, that could be a 750kg grenade. And you could make them way lighter, or a bit heavier (proportionately). You'd clearly need a powered system to load them, but I could at least see that being done for the foremost and aftmost main guns of a destroyer or smaller ship.
There's a world out there where, instead of Hedgehog and Squid, the RN just went for firing 1000kg+ destroyer grenades off the main guns.
Dual-purpose guns could just fire at high angles, howitzer style and not use much charge, I guess. Wouldn't need to attempt to muzzle-load a tonne of explosive :)
A great episode and now additional information I can use as a volunteer at the Oregon Military Museum concerning the "K" gun depth charge display we have. Thank you!
"Smash it with a large hammer" I bet the guy who came up with that is related to Jeremy Clarkson.
Thanks!
Thanks for covering this topic! It's one of those things I've wondered about but never bothered to look into myself. I especially appreciate the history of countermeasure development leading up to the depth charge.
Few minutes in and I've heard not only the word protuberance used in a sentence but also the phrase, "bonk the submarine on the head". Good sir, you are a legend.
Thank you, Drachinifel.
9:25 When I was in the navy, the saying went: "if it doesn't work- hit it with a hammer". Words to live by.
Re: the sub-catching trawler net
Interesting idea. I like the enthusiasm. I really like the aggression. Not too sure about the implementation…
the days when cutting edge military technology came straight from whistlin diesel's design books.
Redneck Engineering: Royal Navy Edition
I've always been interested in Submarines and anti-Submarine warfare, so I thank you for this informative Video.
"There's supposed to be a U-boat shattering kaboom!"
Your description of the spar torpedo attacking subs and going bonk now has the image of a destroyer going bonk to a submarine conning tower with a baseballbat like in the dog meme. Thanks Drach! Edit wait they later actually tried to do that? History is sranger then fiction.
I love how 'bonking the submarine on its head (with a hammer)' was considered a valid tactic multiple times😂
There was actually a plan presented to the Union navy to use a large powered barge with a tower holding a grappling claw and an immense hammer to deal with the Confederate ironclad Virginia.
Fortunately, someone decided that maybe the Monitor might be a better idea.
@mikearmstrong8483 Seriously?? 😂 I hope they planned on naming that thing the USS Mjölnir😂
Preceeded by the ever so short lived; glass bottom battleship for direct sub observation.
And there I was, watching Dick Dastardly trying to catch a pigeon and thinking "man, that is insane, no one in their right mind would do that". I clearly underestimated the British and their ingenuity!
The 'K'gun was the mortar that launched the dept charges fired to either side of the ship dropping the charges. I might be the last person to fire one, this happened in 1967 when out left over WW2 seaplane tender was being decommissioned, we had one left over such item dating back to said war. As the new gunnery officer this job was delegated to me, the engineer wished me luck as the steel deck under the wood decking had never been inspected. We went to 'warp' speed, I pulled the line, it went bang, the charge flew to the side and sunk, a large 'boom' was heard, and an immense splash was noted. We turned and returned to the area and noted a large fish kill. There was no damage to the ship (or me). The Navy did NOT want this thing back.
As my father used to say when faced with a piece of uncooperative machinery ... "Don't force it. Use a bigger hammer."
I remember, in Destination Tokyo, they portrayed depth charges as making two clicks before detonating, rather than one. Does anybody know why?
At shallow depth one would be the detonator locking into place, the other would be the striker firing.
Depending on the exact model, it could also be the striker priming and then firing.
@@Drachinifel Thank you for the reply. I certainly wasn't expecting the answer to come from you!
I remember that some of them had more time between clicks than others. The closer together the clicks were, the more the sub shook and took damage.
It could be that this was an audience cue, but it could also have reflected something about Japanese depth charges, their behavior at different depth settings, et cetera.
@@CiaranMaxwell It will be audience cue- damage done depends on distance, in crude terms, and the depth charge not know that detail, so timing of clicks cannot affect damage in RL.
@@keefymckeefface8330 Oh, of course. My implied question was: Does target depth affect click timing, or is it _entirely_ audience cue?
It was probably the latter. There'd be some depth charges going off at the right depth, but far away. Some too high, some too low.
I suppose I just wasn't explicit enough. ^_^
The hull smashing hammersmiths taking an orca approach adds a certain diversity to the armoury.
Imagine being the guy that actually managed to whack a periscope with a hammer. For the rest of his life he'd be able to say he disabled an enemy submarine with nothing but a hammer.
Great series. Thanks for your effort.
I recall as a child spearfishing for pike through ice. I would sit in a small dark shanty over a large rectangular hole through perhaps a foot of ice, and pike would come by to eat the minnows we were using as bait or to interrogate the decoy.
I often wondered as I waited for a big enough fish to unleash my spear against just what it must have been like to be a pike, when suddenly from above a steel spear descends.
I still don’t know, but I think submariners might have had an inkling.
I would be interested to see a video on the history of minesweeping! Im curious as to how the techniques changed over time (if at all)
Excellent video. I have a few questions.
It appears to me that a better system than having the guess the depth of a submarine would be to just drop a 'bomb' and if it hit something, explode. Like a 'hedgehog bomb' of World War II which uses a 'strike trigger'. With a 'strike trigger' you won't be able to sink a submarine that you were off by 10 horizontal feet but guessed correctly its depth to within 10 feet. But you could sink a submarine with a bomb that did happen to strike a submarine, even if your guess of its depth was off by 100 or more feet.
Questions for Drachinfel:
1. Is it correct that a 'strike trigger' bomb would have been more effective than a 'depth trigger' bomb?
2. If so, did they (during World War I) realize a 'strike trigger' bomb would be more effective than a 'depth trigger' bomb?
3. With 1910's technology, did they know how to design a 'strike trigger' bomb that was reliable and safe for the crews?
Thank you for your time.
9:10 -- Blacksmiths thumping surfaced German submarines was an improvement over the skipper's earlier proposal --namely, writing an angry letter to The Times.
“I say ,Helmsman make turns for 30 knots. I wish to introduce that submarine to our spar torpedo.”
6:25 Ya...I don't think I'd want to touch *that* idea with a forty-foot pole. :)
From the numbers near the end of the video I'm getting about 2000 depth charges issued per submarine sunk. "Issued" not "used" but seems a big number anyway. Hope that future installments will compare the number dropped (does one "drop" depth charges even if they're being fired into the air first?) against submarines sunk other theatres / conflicts.
Solid!
Top KEK!
Peace be with you.
excellent video, thank you
The British in WWII did some analyses of multiple 50 lb depth charges being better than one large depth charge.
Thanks Drach
A Drachinifel video for my birthday? Yes please
John Jellicoe: "They can't have any bloody buoyancy if we blow all of the water around them to kingdom come!"
You could make the argument that Hedgehog is a releasable spar torpedo.
Fascinating video.
Can you do a video on HMS Farnborough, please? That before and after sketch looks very interesting...
I was looking. I don't think drak has done a video on q ships. Look up q ships though. You'll find a lot of it the modern q-ship as well. Being proposed to use against Somali pirates.
@@paulwoodman5131proposed? ;) jk, sort of - I remember Clive Cussler was writing about a privately owned ship kitted out to be a trap for pirates before he passed away. Be a great idea if it were put into practice...
Thank you again for the awesome info in history! I've always been interested in the little things like this! Keep them coming! By far one of the best researchers of history!
SPHERE OF DOOM !!!!
Yeah.....I'm imagining a submarine being lifted bodily out of the water by enough explosives to break a battleships back.
I get the title reference and I love it!
Fantastic story, loved every minute!
I don't know if you've already done this, but I'd love to see you talk about the development of damage control in a similar vein to this! Was damage control around in the age of sail/ what did it look like? I've seen a lot of your videos on damage control in ww2 and would like to hear the rest of the story!
John Jellicoe 1st Earl Jellicoe was born here in my hometown of Southampton in 1859, exactly 100 years before me.
9:18 on the periscope being sighted, the ships boats began a game of whack-a-mole.
Liked the reference in the title to The Penguins of Madagascar. 😉
I came here for "guys with hammers in boats chasing periscopes" and was not disappointed.
7:10 The "Hedgehog" antisubmarine shell came close to realization at this point, twenty-five years before it would be developed.
My thought too! So close...
Squid/Limbo ASW mortar too - threw a pattern of full depthcharges forwards & outwards a bit - was my immediate thought. So many ww1 ideas - and lessons - disappeared interwar.
The idea for depth charges were pioneered by frustrated fishermen. I was there. Me, cousin Merl and our dog Geech (who later got covered in concrete) hadn’t caught a thing. So, we decided to drop a barrel of Acme TNT 🧨 in the pond. When all the fish floated up, a lightbulb went off and we ran off to tell Secretary Stimson.
Some of the early attempts to battle submarines reminds me of the American cartoon Wiley E Coyote and his Acme blasting equipment trying to catch the Roadrunner.
Brings a whole new meaning to hammer time
@Drachinifel could they have swapped out the fuses on a 13.5 or 15 inch HE shell with a hydrostatic piston to make the Grand Fleet ASW artillery?
As noted earlier in the video, high caliber rounds skip off the water, like skipping rocks.
@@External2737 on a shallow trajectory yes, but with a spotter plane calling in long range shots of plunging fire?
8:10 "link in the description below" is apparently missing :-(
Fixed :)
Happy Wednesday and thanks for more explosive education!
Yes, Rico Kaboom! Penguins of Madagascar. They probably use depth charges to get sardines.
now we need a presentation on the development and evolution of sonar/asdic/hydrophones
The dissolving pellet is what we use today to activate our inflatable life-vests. They can also degrade if exposed to repeated temperature cycles, so if you hang a life-vest above a heater, it might at some point just blow up. Then you can go and reload the damn thing, urgh.
You may want to look up Tasting History with Max Miller this week. His current edition is what the crew on a German WWI submarine ate.
Great stuff. Looking forward to the next part already! Will there be details on Hedgehog? I always think it seems to get overlooked. My Grandfather was ASDIC operator on HMS Wallace. I wonder if there are records of whether he located any U-Boats?