Will you cover the current state of HMS Hermes from the Falklands war (longest-serving warship in the world)? She is now out of service with the Indian navy and possibly might even come back to the UK!
Oh gosh your comment on the 5.25 inch gun's effectiveness increasing due to technological advances in radar tracking and targeting. Provoked a thought in my head, were the 5"/54 secondary guns for the Motanna class BB, was there any thought about utilising them to upgun the Iowa Class BB secondaries with them?
Why did so many ships, including those that had to squeeze in under treaty displacement limits, carry separate saluting guns? Was there a reason they couldn't put a blank powder charge in any of their useful guns and use those for saluting shots?
@@jeromechan4076 The 5/38 dual purpose gun of the USN was so good, it would've been quite an accomplishment indeed to improve upon it. In all seriousness.
@@kommandantgalileo History geeks - among whose number I count myself: "You were off by 20%, bro, your analogy is TOTALLY WRONG!" I'll concede my sentence could have been more elegant.
It was nice to to see one of my old ships again. I served on her in 1953 as a electricians mate 1st class. It was a 1st class ship, complete with all facilities.
Hello yes my Dad and I took a boat from Weymouth to Portland Harbour in August 1954,for the annual Navy Days that were very popular with the British public,and we boarded the Vanguard port side,along with hundreds of other people,this was a fascinating experience for a 10 year old boy!My was in the Royal Artillery during WW2 and we were lucky enough to be shown inside A forward turret,I was surprised how big it was inside,and the gunners explained how the shell's and charges came into the gun turret,the gun layer,sat on a very small seat right behind the barrel of each 15 inch gun,and it was explained when the guns fired,the recoil bought the breech to within a few inches of the gunlayers chest! This great ship,as you know was never in action,but what a waste when the Conservative government decided to first put on reserve,then destroy the ship by scrapping! Not much has changed over the years,the Thatcher government in 1981,was going to strip the Royal Navy to the bone,but a year later,along comes the Falklands War,which delayed that irresponsible decision!
@@davidmichaels8934 It’s probably a good job that Vanguard was not sent to the Falklands. Her zero protection against Exocets would have not been a good look never mind the deaths that would result.
its a shame, you'd think they would have at least kept either Rodney or King George V, but someone higher up with no respect for their significance just had to have that scrap metal.
@@mattblom3990 Full size seaworthy trireme. It's a reproduction of course . I think it's a commissioned warship of the Hellenic Navy. It sails 3-4 times a year and volunteers can join as rowers. They also take 5-10 visitors on each trip but one has to book early.
Such a shame she couldn’t be saved. Would have been epic to see her next to Victory. With such an impressive naval history, I think it’s pretty shitty of us that we didn’t preserve more of it 🙁
@@tomirk4404 people often forget that serving it's citizens should be the highest priority of the state. Not expending enormous amounts of money to preserve a sentimental piece in times of greater need.
I saw her off the Tail of the Bank (?) at the mouth of the Clyde in, I suppose, 1946/7. I would be 12/13. All I wanted to be was to be the Captain of a Battleship. We were living in Scotland (military father) and he had heard that the Cunard Queen Elizabeth and the Vanguard were anchored there. I remember it so well. In due course I became an RN Officer and, surprisingly because I am as thick as two short planks, I somehow found myself on the "fast track". In those days, unlike the army, one never saw one's confidential reports, other than a very truncated "flimsy". One knew where one was going because of one's appointments. If appointed to run the Barrack's laundry, it was fairly clear that one wasn't destined to be 1SL. I was First lieutenant of HMS Lynx in 1971. All future Post List Commanders had to do a Jimmy's job. Southern Rhodesia had declare UDI and we, the Brits, imposed sanctions, which meant patrolling off Beira to prevent oil imports to Rhodesia. Lynx was, or should be on her way home through the Suez Canal, but we were diverted to the patrol. On the way we were caught up on the tail of a cyclone. Lynx was small, about 2200 tons, and she bounced! I was thrown, and smashed my patella. I was theoretically the medical officer. I had no idea what a patella was, I knew I couldn't stand up. To cut a long boring story short, eventually I was invalided, and became a lawyer. I hate lawyers. Thank you Drachinifel for a fascinating vlog.
One, you're old. Two, thanks for serving. Three. there probably aren't a lot of people around who saw this ship with their own eyes. It had such a short shelf life.
@@Elthenar - I was one of those privileged to see HMS Vanguard. Sadly, this was because she was lying in reserve in Portsmouth Harbour. The father of one of my friends was her pilot on her voyage to the scrapyard and ordered her stern anchor when she went out of control and tried to ram the Still and West (public house). There were a lot of moist eyes that day, and not of all of them were young.
@@ross.venner i was one who saw her. I actually walked along the fourteen inch armour plating, i was a seaman boy on HMNZS BELLONA and we were tied up alongside Vanguard in Plymouth, this was in 1955. I remember that one of the seaman boys jobs was to get the milk cans off the jetty, and boy the quarter deck of the Vanguard seemed huge and being winter was icy, we used to slide the cans across. We used to go aboard Vanguard to watch tv in the evenings and some of the blokes showed us around. It was quite an experience to look around a fifteen inch turret and we laughed because our main armament was the secondary or AA armament on Vanguard.
I am American but I think that Vanguard and Hood are the most beautiful battleships ever made. Vanguard is my favorite battleship, I've always wanted a model of her in 1/350 but no one makes one so I had to settle for a 1/450 model.
I too am American, and an avid naval history fan. There's absolutely nothing wrong with one's favorite historic warships being from other countries. It has no affect on my devotion to the U.S. that Vanguard is one of my favorites, or Yamato or Derfflinger. Those ships were all advanced and deadly for their time, and no one in their right mind would be or was happy to be on the receiving end of their guns. I appreciate warships not simply for their country of origin, but as machines of both beauty and power. America has certainly produced a number of excellent warships, like the Iowa class, but older Ameeican vessels usually aren't my faves because although they were capable, they lacked the aesthetic beauty that the ships of other nations often achieved, while also being capable combatants. And let's be real - being so prideful as to say something is better just because it's American, is a great way to underestimate an enemy and get our butts kicked. Weapons of war run on scientific reality, not distilled freedom juice and eagle calls. All that said, if we're talking current warships, gotta pick Arleigh Burke class destroyers as my fave, no hesitation.
Hood was a Battlecruiser, not a Battleship. Although upgraded in the 1930s, Hood was still considered a Battlecruiser as she still had a lighter armor configuration.
At 51,000 tons she was at the time, the largest and most powerful warship ever built for the R.N. A similar situation that exists now with the new HMS Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier. Should have been kept of course but that´s history now.
Having served a full 18 month commission on a Colony class cruiser (HMS Kenya) I spent a bit of time on Reserve fleet at Portsmouth. HMS Vanguard was our accommodation ship. When I arrived on board, I was gobsmacked by the size and thickness of the hatches leading through the main deck. They were massive, so big and thick compared with the Kenya but Vanguard, hatches must have weighed a couple of tons. It was awesome living on board, everything was totally oversize. What a beautiful ship.
A quaint little piece of trivia for you Drach, HMS Vanguard ran aground next to The Still and West pub in Portsmouth. Make what you will of that but, hey perhaps she just wanted one last pint before she went.;)
Hearing all those little incidents makes me feel sad, including that tidbit about the anchor. It's as if she knew she was headed to her deathbed and didn't want to cooperate...
One of my earliest memories was being aboard HMS Vanguard at a Navy Day. I was maybe 6 or 7 years old. I can remember standing in the shade of what was to me, a massive turret and looking straight up the sheer face of that super-structure. I honestly can recall being absolutely awestruck. Thank you so much for rekindling a fantastic memory for me. apologies if technical terms are incorrect.
Thankyou so much for this video... my Dad served on HMS Vanguard, he was a Chief Petty officer electrician! He was immensely proud to have served on Britain’s last Battle ship and used to recount tales of her massive fire power that used to shift her sideways when those big guns were fired! Your video brought back a lot of memories of my Dad, Bill Baker.... rip Dad.
Sorry, not even Iowa Class' 3x3 16' could move those ships sideways and Vanguard and Iowa were comparable in weight (Iowa even heavier in full load) It's basic physics, long before you reach the power to move something as massive as a battleship *sideways* through the water you blow the turrets out of the turret rings Getting the ship to roll? Yeah, but actually shifting sideways? Nope!
@@Nightdare you are spot on. Large artillery pieces are fitted with buffers and recouperators. The buffers slow and damp the recoil of the guns as they are fired. The recouperators return the guns to their starting position once the guns recoil has been stopped. The force required to move 45000 tonnes of ship sideways against the water resistance would tear it to pieces.
HMS Vanguard also appears in various guises in the movie Sink The Bismarck with turret exteriors of her twin 15-inch standing-in for HMS Hood while her turret interiors were used for HMS Prince of Wales... "right gun jamming on charge... right gun jamming on charge..." and then again later when Bismarck was being sunk. With a uniform change she also doubled for the Bismarck's turret interior as well. B
I was 11 in 1957 ang got a subscription to _Popular Science_ for Christmas so I was able to follow along with Vanguard's progress from refit to reserve to scrapping. I thought the scrapping proposal would surely be shelved by the Prime Minister. Little did I know at the time about the fatal combination of Eden and MacMillan for the RN. I thought Vanguard was the best looking, even while being utilitarian, battleship of the era.
@@WALTERBROADDUS This is what happens if you live long enough. You become your father's age. It's actually pretty weird. My dad was 80 when he passed away so I still have a couple years to go.
@@emintey Preserving a ship for museum use has everything to do with history and nothing to do with how obsolete a ship might be. Given your way of thinking, the USS Constitution and HMS Victory should have been broken up for firewood because they were "obsolete".
It's such a shame that we (Britain) didn't preserve a battleship. HMS Belfast is a fine ship, but she is a cruiser. The Vanguard was magnificent, and would have been a fitting symbol of naval power, being the last battleship. However, if we could keep only one, my vote would have been to preserve Warspite, which served in both world wars with great distinction. Ah well, at least there are impressive models of these ships in the Science Museum at Kensington.
Is it me, or was this ship entirely made of revised and updated parts, leaving almost no original components behind. Like that American Hotrod TV show.
How was she in heavy seas? I heard a story once that that during a NATO exercise she could work her guns in seaways that even made the Iowa's do nothing but pray.
Pity the RN hadnt vanguard at the start of the war and built a 5 class number of them they could retire the older dreadnaughts and modernized Hood rebuilding her as a battleship with capped funnels with the KG Class the germans would think twice before fighting the Vanguard class .
Poor girl just wanted a last pint in the Still and West before she left Pompey and that seems very reasonable to me. The used to have a picture of Vanguard as seen form the pub when she broke loose, and its very much "##ck me that was close"!
I've always thought that HMS Vanguard was a very good looking ship, one of the best actually. I could quibble about the rather blocky superstructure, but I suppose it was evolved from the Warspite superstructure, and perhaps it predicts the examples of Brutalist architecture that can be seen in London today; particularly the Trellic Tower (of Terror) and the Barbican estate.
@Richard McCaig Not so clear cut by any measure. Very dependant on conditions. Vanguard better sea handling than Iowas. Fire control of both on par. Armour better on Vanguard. 16' 50 cal superior to 15' 42 even with superchargers. It is closer than you might want to consider. First punch would be telling.
@Richard McCaig the radar and fire control present actually heavy tips it in Vanguards favour, the bursting charge of the 15 inch shell was much larger than the 16 inch shell on the Iowa and in heavy seas the Iowa would not be able to fire it's forward turret, due to the way the bow is. Also the training in the Royal Navy was far superior to American ships. But it would be a close run thing, and Iowa has a speed advantage.
@Richard McCaig the radar and fire control present actually heavy tips it in Vanguards favour, not to mention it's better armour on Vanguard, the fact the 15 inch gun had a much larger bursting charge than the Iowa's 16 inch guns and in heavy seas the Iowa would not be able to fire it's forward turret, due to the way the bow is. Also the training in the Royal Navy was far superior to American sailors. But it would be a close run thing.
I remember detraining with my father at Portsmouth Harbour and seeing her parallel to us, on her own. Maybe late fifties. She was huge and lovely-never forgotten the sight.
Just went back to watch HMS Tiger to compare. MASSIVE improvement in video quality in just two months. You've nearly eliminated umms ahhs and ands, you're getting your points across better and organizing your points by category rather than by date. Keep up the good work, I'm subscribing.
My grandfather was in command on her final voyage, he was regarded as a towing expert at the time. Oops. The overhead photo is blown up at the back of the Still and West pub, which at least used to do excellent fish and chips. The hull alone towered over the four storey pub. It’s a great shame that so few of these beautiful ships were preserved.
Some armour from the Vanguard was used in the River Don Works apprentice shop as the floor, I was an apprentice in the early 70s don't think I ever damaged it.
Vanguard was an excellent sea boat & a very steady gun platform this was brought home in operation Mainbrace where the Iowa"s were constantly shipping green.
Her sea keeping abilities were superior to any US battleship in rough seas much to the red faces of US naval personnel. A friend of my father served on her and he loved the ship to bits and was gutted when they scrapped her.
Hehe.... Try sailing through very heavy seas in a 430 ft. Frigate. We were tossed all over, many shipmates getting seasick. Mess decks was.... a mess. Food scattered so bad, guys were sliding around, looked like a scene from a Three Stooges movie.
The last hurrah for the British Empire, thanks for this, I've always been a fan of Vanguard. My uncle was a radar tech on her at one time. As a little boy I stayed at his flat in Portsmouth when the Coronation celebrations were happening and Mum and I went out to see the ships.
Thank you for that five minute guide. Though history can’t be changed I have to agree that Vanguard would have looked fantastic along side Victory as a museum ship. Such a shame
Honestly, any of our WW2 battleships would have looked great in Portsmouth, though in my opinion the one that really deserved to be conserved was Warspite, that ship went through almost everything the axis could throw at her
I would go with Warspite or the KG V. Possibly one of the older carriers that survived the war. For the US, we missed out on Enterprise, which earned more combat stars than any USN ship in WWII.
As an 11 year old, i had a Newspaper photo of Vanguard on my wall, it showed her being moved to the breakers yard, even then i never really understood why our governments would throw away our history and heritage, But it did, it is tragic that out of touch politicians had no idea how the population felt at the time, AND of course HMS Warspite went to her grave at the hands of the same politicians. A wrecked history i think ( no pun intended ) Our history destroyed by political motives, future generations will never understand what we once achieved as a maritime nation. dare i say Britannia did once rule the waves !
I understand Warspite being scrapped even though it sucks. They were bankrupted. Preserving a ship is expensive. I dont really get why they had to scrap this one as I would assume they were much more financially stable.
Jesus Christ man,the politicians are doing their best to destroy our heritage especially Labour Party it’s surprising they haven’t sent the local police around to your house to re-educate you,they say it’s racist to be proud of our maritime domination of the world,how stupid they are
In response to your comments I totally agree with you 👍 our politicians are out of order,they are not interested in hearing what the public have to say or any interest in the preservation of famous British warships be they Battleships or Cruisers or Aircraft Carriers , the then prime minister could and should have saved HMS WARSPITE and HMS VANGUARD from their terrible fate and preserved them for a grateful nation and future generations
the perfect ship to fight the junkers ju 287. both are massive partys of spare parts (and in case of the ju287 even some parts of shot down allied bombers).
That's a myth. Sure they used turrets and guns destined for older ships, however, by the time they were reworked and redesigned, they were just as modern and effective as any other modern battleship.
During the 1970s I worked with an engineer who had been the Gunnery Officer - 'Guns' on HMS Vanguard He said that one day in 1958 or 1959 we got a signal which read - 'Go to sea and don't come back with any 15" ammunition" So we went out into the North Atlantic, well clear of any shipping lanes, and fired it all off
I was a 4th year Shipfitter (fitter and turner) apprentice in HM RN Portsmouth Dockyard when they were stripping her of anything useful, I went aboard and made my way to the Engineers' workshop, where just about everything was gone, but I found quite a lot of HSS lathe tool bits in a cupboard. I still have those tool bits in my shed (here in Australia), they are top quality and come in very handy for my lathe. Poor old Vanguard, it was a shame she had to go. Incidentally, she didn't go aground at Southsea Castle, that is much further 'around the corner' from where she decided she needed a pint at the Still and West pub. Thanks Drachinifel, good run down on Vanguard.
It doesn't'matter how good Vanguard and any other RN ship was, for that matter, the damded Russians have managed to screw the lot over in World of Warships. Keep up the great work Drach 👍👍👍
That Stalinium. In a training room, I was using my USS Alabama and one guy using the Sinop somehow bounced my 16 inch AP shells at less than 8k when he exposed his ENTIRE broadside. It bounced ALL of my AP shells that connected... The fucked up thing about it is I heard Sinop has TWO full thickness armor belts each are 400mm!!! 16 inches EACH!
Great work as usual Drach! For anyone interested there's a really excellent period colour film on RUclips, an episode of 'Look at Life' which covers her trip to the breakers, including her grounding in Portsmouth harbour.
Back when I first became interested in Naval warfare I saw a comment that said the ship should have been called HMS Rearguard since she was commissioned after the age of Battleships had already ended.
In terms of looks I've never really been a big fan of Vanguards appearance. But 7:17 I've got to say that has got to be one of the most beautiful photos of a battleship I've ever seen!
@Brett Mitchell Eh, shes a good ship. But my personal favorite is still Richelieu class. About the same size, but slightly faster, and she look like a floating fortress with her full load out of 24, 4"(100mm) guns 9, 6" (150mm) guns (all aft) and 8, 15" (380mm) guns all forward. Also no Vanguard in Kancolle or Azur Lane, feels bad man.
Sexual Tyrannosaurus At the risk of being mistaken as a weeb: It would definitely be nice for KC to finally add an end-gen British battleship, given that they have at least one end-gen battleship for the other navies that had them. On the other hand, I’m not a fan of end-gen battleships (at least in terms of combat performance) due to them being obsolete upon launch, and I honestly don’t like the characterization of the ones we do have in the game.
@@TEHSTONEDPUMPKIN Good heavens. Judging a real battleship by if it appears in any Japanese anime/busty school girl games. I've never understood the kawaii thing among Westerners.
@@sarjim4381 I mostly meant that ironically. Besides I wasn't "judging it whether it appears in a Japanese/Chinese(Azur Lane) game/anime)" It was mostly meant as a jab towards the ship since, Bismarck, Iowa, Yamato, Littorio, Kongou, and Richelieu, all appear in either one or both, where as Vanguard doesn't appear in either. Besides given the fact I have a Kancolle doujin profile pic, is it any surprise, Im degenerate weeb trash? XD
I used to listen to Drach because of my tinnitus. I needed an even, pleasant voice talking for up to 5 hours so I could get to sleep. 6 months later and I can quote the primary, secondary and tertiary weapon mountings of all HMS battleships, their armor belt thicknesses and launch dates. How? I wasn't listening!! WHY DIDN'T I LISTEN TO MATHS LECTURES WHILE ASLEEP IN MY HIGH SCHOOL YEARS!!
26:25 - No, she didn't go ashore anywhere near Southsea Castle, it was the Still and West at the Northeast corner of the harbour narrows. The castle is better than a mile away where the channel turns south away from the shore.
A mighty battleship in the days when aircraft carriers were the new kings of the sea. Would be a great battle if Vanguard took on the Tirpitz one to one.
@@whigparty6180 truly tragic. their loss is every bit as shameful as the fate decreed for the great Enterprise. fkn shortsighted bean-counters. more history lost forever because of faceless bureaucrats who never served or put it on the line. thank God that the Iowa sisters lived.
No, they are old and poorly designed like Hood with the powder room in a more vulnerable position. I get it using whatever is available, especially in war time but it is what it is...An off the shelf spare parts ship that took years to finish and when finally finished the war was over and it was not needed.
@@chopchop7938 firstly they are definitely not poorly designed, the "powder room" is in the same place in all battleships because it has to be there due to the way you load a gun, the Hoods wasn't in the wrong place it just didn't have sufficient deck armour and if you say Vanguard didn't have sufficient deck armour, no battleship ever did, because only Yamato had thicker deck armour.
I recall her at Portsmouth, moored alongside the main dockyard building when we visited HMS Victory in the mid-1950's. Security was very strict, and any cameras, binoculars etc. had to be left at the Royal Marine post at the Dockyard gates, before we were escorted in groups to view Nelson's flagship.
I visited Vanguard with my parents when she was at Portland. So sad that she was broken up, although she was of no particular significance since she never actually served as a warship. A bigger scandal was the break up of HMS Iron Duke. I also recall that my mother was prevented from falling over the side by an alert rating.
Long may she sail ( perhaps.now. not so much ) but always, as ever,thanks for your work - bringing these ships and their stories back to life. Immortal Memory, Lest We Forget.
It's unfortunate how little history is actually remembered. There are few WW2 vets remaining, but that belies that there are no WW1 vets, Franco-Prussian vets, Hundred Years War vets, etc. We have forgotten so very much.
Correction, she went aground in the narrows by the Still and West (pub). Southsea Castle is a mile down channel. That said, thank you for a fascinating account of a ship that I still remember vividly.
My dad was a bit of a forager at ship breakers yards. As he was a veterinary sales rep he could plan trips that passed either Faslane or Inverkeithing. Sometimes I used to go with him We went to Faslane the day after Vanguard arrived and most of her 15" guns had been removed
Anything but gorgeous in my opinion. Vanguard looked stodgy and old fashioned compared to the Majestic and symmetrical lines of other battleships. EG Bismarck, Iowa
That's so sad,she would of been great today as a battle ship. There still useful,they can make anything disappear from the safety of the sea. Relocate and repeat as needed. Almost nothing around day can hurt her to bad. Would be awesome to see the battle ships back in action. It's just a dream now,to see them in all there glory on battle again.
As always, great history and commentary. I was a radarman aboard a destroyer escort in the USN in Viet Nam in 71 and 72. Loved the sea. Crazy, as I would do it again. Been aboard Alabama. She is also a magnificent CAPITAL ship with a great history. I am also amazed at the lethality of the new "CAPITAL" ships. Amazing. Hope we never need to use them in anger. Keep it up and thanks again.
kind of ironic built in John Browns on the Clyde and broken up at Faslane a few miles down river in the Gareloch a sad end to a lovely looking ship :>(
The US Navy had an extensive study before installing 16" / 50 cal. Rifles on her last few battleships, but with the world's metallurgy finally reaching it's upper limits, they tended to wear badly. Especially the last third of their length. The absolute best wear pattern for maximum use was around 40 caliber for 14 to 16 inches. What the US Navy learned from thousands of fired shells from these 50 cal. 16" guns were that battleship engagements took place at much less than 20,000 yards. I'd say Vanguard's 42 cal. / 15" rifles were well suited for battleship duels in my opinion. I'd even say that she might even have enjoyed a slight advantage in such engagements. As a Naval history amateur I have always loved the US Navy's late war hull designs and the Royal Navy's superstructure designs. A wish of mine was that the 2 Navy's had co-designed an ultimate battleship...
The irony is that the USN planned for very long-ranged engagements and planned their doctrine around such, but this turned out to be something of a failed doctrine, as even the best FCS in the world proved too inaccurate at such ranges.
That's why the Royal Navy's Lion's were to be designed with the new reliable and longer lasting 16" 45 caliber gun's. 50 + caliber simply took too much wear and tear out of the rifle.
One thing that was not touched on in the video was the fire control system for the main battery. The Vanguard was the only ship fitted with the Admiralty Fire Control Table Mark 10. It had been intended to also fit it in some large cruisers that were never laid down. This was the most advanced surface gunnery fire control system fitted in any ship that served or was designed in World War 2. It was designed to take advantage of technogical developments and tactical lessons of the war. It was designed from the start to exploit radar. But what was unique about it is that it was designed to predict the path of a turning target. This meant that it would be more effective against a target taking evasive action than any other comparable system. It would have given Vanguard the advantage against ships with heavier main batteries. So Vanguard would probably have outmatched even a Yamato or an Iowa.
Lloyd Flack the USN had their own version; the Mk I Ford analog computer from early 43 on which carried on into the digital era It too intergraded radar for accurate hits at high speed in total darkness
Being able to shoot at a maneuvering target wasn't some sort of new innovation as many seem to believe, it was something that had been feasible since before WW with the first mechanical fire control computers. By WWII everyone was using fire control computers and synthetic fie control, though the US and Britain had an edge due to theirs being attached to radar (not that this mattered, since by that point the whole idea of a big-gun gunfight was obsolete except in very rare scenarios)
@@chopchop7938lol why u so negative? It's like ur just scrolling threw comments looking for something to disagree with.. every single comment uve wrote had been negative and/or argumentative
Another outstanding video, thank you! I'd love to see, at some point in the near, or far, future, a video on the various fire control systems these ships used for their main, secondary and anti-aircraft armament.
Well that was a rather sad story to wake up with. Poor thing never stood a chance with all those frijjin redesigns and modifications. I feel a bit sorry for her.
I've just started viewing your shows and they are great - thank you! May i suggest some of the smaller US Navy ships from WWII like the LST, attack transport, Liberty ship, YMS, AM, PC, PCE, LCI, LCI gunships, LSM, LSM(R) and LCT. It has always amazed me how those were built and crewed in the thousands and don't get the recognition they deserve. Also support ships like floating dry docks, destroyer, submarine, seaplane (my dad served on the USS Pine Island during the Korean war) and PT tenders, and specialized ships. Not many of these last few but still proved vitally important to have in anchorages on islands as they were captured and fronts moved forward. Thanks and keep up the good work!
Personally, I would have chosen Rodney instead of Vanguard for a museum ship. She was much more distinctive-looking, and she had a very distinguished career. Vanguard was mostly a harbor queen, and very non-descript.
A beautiful ship, but, like Miniver Cheevy, "born too late . . . ." The only thing that detracts from her lines, as at least one person pointed out below, is that blocky, boxy THING amidships. Looks like a forerunner of the hideous vessels the USN is building these days! As always, Herr Doktor Drachenstein, excellent work!
This ship had a mutiny onboard off South Africa whilst the queen was onboard. The mutiny was stopped and covered up. The intention of the mutineers was to bring light onto the poor conditions and pay of the Royal Navy. Sadly it still continues to this day.
There are some good pictures in "The still and west" pub on Southsea side of Portsmouth harbor, it's their pub that the ended up under the bow of this massive ship.
I'm not going to push that far, but early cold war sure makes a lot of interesting stories. I would love to see an assessment of NATO vs. Warsaw Pact in terms of GIUK, North Sea, Norway and the Baltic both in terms of strategy and forces deployed. I would imagine seeing a progress from the late forties up to maybe the 1960s would be interesting and not put too much pressure on Drach's no-modern-politics rule.
@@lukashei1870 I suggest reading into the Falklands war a bit. I didn't really think too much of that era at all either until I did a bit of research on it and it totally changed my view on the era and really sparked my interest. Especially with most of the warships from that conflict being scraped over the past few years its important to highlight them now. Also, the former HMS Hermes (flagship of the task force in 82, and the longest-serving warship in the world) is now out of service with the Indian navy and possibly might even come back to the UK, so its very relevant. I personally don't like the look of very modern warships, but I think that ships from the 50s-2000 get a bit of a bad rep being that they are kinda stuck between two eras and totally overshadowed by WW2 ships in legacy, but I don't think they are any less deserving to be highlighted. When you read into it you will realize that it was a very important and interesting era in naval development.
![Stromae, Pomme - “Ma Meilleure Ennemie” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1F3OGIFnW1k/mqdefault.jpg)
Pinned post for Q&A :)
Drachinifel
How practical would it have been to lay down HMS Incomparable before converting the hull into a carrier after WNT regulations?
Will you cover the current state of HMS Hermes from the Falklands war (longest-serving warship in the world)? She is now out of service with the Indian navy and possibly might even come back to the UK!
Oh gosh your comment on the 5.25 inch gun's effectiveness increasing due to technological advances in radar tracking and targeting. Provoked a thought in my head, were the 5"/54 secondary guns for the Motanna class BB, was there any thought about utilising them to upgun the Iowa Class BB secondaries with them?
Why did so many ships, including those that had to squeeze in under treaty displacement limits, carry separate saluting guns? Was there a reason they couldn't put a blank powder charge in any of their useful guns and use those for saluting shots?
@@jeromechan4076 The 5/38 dual purpose gun of the USN was so good, it would've been quite an accomplishment indeed to improve upon it. In all seriousness.
15,000 tons of armor, or basically, the _Vanguard's_ armor nearly equalled the _entire_ displacement of HMS _Dreadnought._ Wow.
Didn't Dreadnought displace 18,000 tons?
I did write "almost". lol @@kommandantgalileo
@@scottmccrea1873should have said almost the same, not outweighed.
Yamatos armour weighs more than the ENTIRE (DEEP LOAD) DISPLACEMENT OF THE HMS DREADNOUGHT
@@kommandantgalileo History geeks - among whose number I count myself: "You were off by 20%, bro, your analogy is TOTALLY WRONG!"
I'll concede my sentence could have been more elegant.
It was nice to to see one of my old ships again. I served on her in 1953 as a electricians mate 1st class. It was a 1st class ship, complete with all facilities.
Hello yes my Dad and I took a boat from Weymouth to Portland Harbour in August 1954,for the annual Navy Days that were very popular with the British public,and we boarded the Vanguard port side,along with hundreds of other people,this was a fascinating experience for a 10 year old boy!My was in the Royal Artillery during WW2 and we were lucky enough to be shown inside A forward turret,I was surprised how big it was inside,and the gunners explained how the shell's and charges came into the gun turret,the gun layer,sat on a very small seat right behind the barrel of each 15 inch gun,and it was explained when the guns fired,the recoil bought the breech to within a few inches of the gunlayers chest! This great ship,as you know was never in action,but what a waste when the Conservative government decided to first put on reserve,then destroy the ship by scrapping!
Not much has changed over the years,the Thatcher government in 1981,was going to strip the Royal Navy to the bone,but a year later,along comes the Falklands War,which delayed that irresponsible decision!
@@davidmichaels8934 It’s probably a good job that Vanguard was not sent to the Falklands. Her zero protection against Exocets would have not been a good look never mind the deaths that would result.
Thank you
@@Dave5843-d9m Exocets cannot pierce 14inch plate, or the 5” deck vanguard wouldn’t have been able to be sunk by such missiles
@@trisjack82 Exocets would not hit the deck nor the 14" side armour. They would most likely hit the superstructure
I’m crying, I’m so ashamed we have no ships like Hms Rodney to go visit, and keep for the nation
Do you not have Lord Nelson's ship? That alone is a victory.
>Warspite
its a shame, you'd think they would have at least kept either Rodney or King George V, but someone higher up with no respect for their significance just had to have that scrap metal.
@@high-velocitymammal5030 -was broken up for scrap
That's because our politicians actual hate the UK' they do not save any of our history.
The British were the first and the last to build an all-big-gun battleship, poetic.
Secondary guns: ARE WE A JOKE TO YOU?
@@VersusARCH they were a joke when mounted in classmates ;)
@@charliekk3377 i think ya mean casemates, id hate to be a classmate with a 5inch gun up my ass and on a warship XD
Jean Bart? Completed in 1955.
Yes, that's a very incitement statement. Dreadnought and Vanguard
Ah the Vanguard next to Victory... We have the next best thing here in Athens. The armored cruiser Georgios Averof sitting next to a trireme!
Spyros Vassilakis
That actually sounds better....
@@bkjeong4302 I never see you post anything that is not anti British in some way or other.
99IronDuke
Not being anti-British, just criticizing the decision to launch an obviously outdated warship.
Spyros...Is it a full size, seaworthy, trireme?
@@mattblom3990 Full size seaworthy trireme. It's a reproduction of course . I think it's a commissioned warship of the Hellenic Navy. It sails 3-4 times a year and volunteers can join as rowers. They also take 5-10 visitors on each trip but one has to book early.
HMS Vanguard was also used in the 1960 film "Sink the Bismarck" she played the role of many ships in that movie.
Such a shame she couldn’t be saved. Would have been epic to see her next to Victory. With such an impressive naval history, I think it’s pretty shitty of us that we didn’t preserve more of it 🙁
I think people often forget it’s what made us
Yeah. Am from germany, and, well, would definetly have made a trip there if it was still existent
@@tomirk4404 people often forget that serving it's citizens should be the highest priority of the state. Not expending enormous amounts of money to preserve a sentimental piece in times of greater need.
@@tomirk4404 you mean aside from centurues of genocide all around the globe?
@@lars7935honestly saving Vanguard would probably be serving the citizens more then the UK government ever does let's be fucking real
I saw her off the Tail of the Bank (?) at the mouth of the Clyde in, I suppose, 1946/7. I would be 12/13. All I wanted to be was to be the Captain of a Battleship. We were living in Scotland (military father) and he had heard that the Cunard Queen Elizabeth and the Vanguard were anchored there. I remember it so well.
In due course I became an RN Officer and, surprisingly because I am as thick as two short planks, I somehow found myself on the "fast track". In those days, unlike the army, one never saw one's confidential reports, other than a very truncated "flimsy". One knew where one was going because of one's appointments. If appointed to run the Barrack's laundry, it was fairly clear that one wasn't destined to be 1SL.
I was First lieutenant of HMS Lynx in 1971. All future Post List Commanders had to do a Jimmy's job.
Southern Rhodesia had declare UDI and we, the Brits, imposed sanctions, which meant patrolling off Beira to prevent oil imports to Rhodesia.
Lynx was, or should be on her way home through the Suez Canal, but we were diverted to the patrol. On the way we were caught up on the tail of a cyclone. Lynx was small, about 2200 tons, and she bounced!
I was thrown, and smashed my patella. I was theoretically the medical officer. I had no idea what a patella was, I knew I couldn't stand up.
To cut a long boring story short, eventually I was invalided, and became a lawyer. I hate lawyers.
Thank you Drachinifel for a fascinating vlog.
" I was theoretically the medical officer. I had no idea what a patella was" WTF?????!!!
One, you're old. Two, thanks for serving. Three. there probably aren't a lot of people around who saw this ship with their own eyes. It had such a short shelf life.
@@Elthenar - I was one of those privileged to see HMS Vanguard. Sadly, this was because she was lying in reserve in Portsmouth Harbour. The father of one of my friends was her pilot on her voyage to the scrapyard and ordered her stern anchor when she went out of control and tried to ram the Still and West (public house). There were a lot of moist eyes that day, and not of all of them were young.
@@ross.venner I saw Vanguard being scrapped at Faslane - my father worked on the ship when she was being built in Clydebank.
@@ross.venner i was one who saw her. I actually walked along the fourteen inch armour plating, i was a seaman boy on HMNZS BELLONA and we were tied up alongside Vanguard in Plymouth, this was in 1955. I remember that one of the seaman boys jobs was to get the milk cans off the jetty, and boy the quarter deck of the Vanguard seemed huge and being winter was icy, we used to slide the cans across. We used to go aboard Vanguard to watch tv in the evenings and some of the blokes showed us around. It was quite an experience to look around a fifteen inch turret and we laughed because our main armament was the secondary or AA armament on Vanguard.
I am American but I think that Vanguard and Hood are the most beautiful battleships ever made. Vanguard is my favorite battleship, I've always wanted a model of her in 1/350 but no one makes one so I had to settle for a 1/450 model.
I too am American, and an avid naval history fan. There's absolutely nothing wrong with one's favorite historic warships being from other countries. It has no affect on my devotion to the U.S. that Vanguard is one of my favorites, or Yamato or Derfflinger. Those ships were all advanced and deadly for their time, and no one in their right mind would be or was happy to be on the receiving end of their guns. I appreciate warships not simply for their country of origin, but as machines of both beauty and power. America has certainly produced a number of excellent warships, like the Iowa class, but older Ameeican vessels usually aren't my faves because although they were capable, they lacked the aesthetic beauty that the ships of other nations often achieved, while also being capable combatants. And let's be real - being so prideful as to say something is better just because it's American, is a great way to underestimate an enemy and get our butts kicked. Weapons of war run on scientific reality, not distilled freedom juice and eagle calls. All that said, if we're talking current warships, gotta pick Arleigh Burke class destroyers as my fave, no hesitation.
I get Vanguard, but Hood is a strange one...
Hood was a Battlecruiser, not a Battleship. Although upgraded in the 1930s, Hood was still considered a Battlecruiser as she still had a lighter armor configuration.
@@patrickmccrann991 Yes, I'm aware.
At 51,000 tons she was at the time, the largest and most powerful warship ever built for the R.N. A similar situation that exists now with the new HMS Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier. Should have been kept of course but that´s history now.
Having served a full 18 month commission on a Colony class cruiser (HMS Kenya) I spent a bit of time on Reserve fleet at Portsmouth. HMS Vanguard was our accommodation ship. When I arrived on board, I was gobsmacked by the size and thickness of the hatches leading through the main deck. They were massive, so big and thick compared with the Kenya but Vanguard, hatches must have weighed a couple of tons. It was awesome living on board, everything was totally oversize. What a beautiful ship.
A quaint little piece of trivia for you Drach, HMS Vanguard ran aground next to The Still and West pub in Portsmouth. Make what you will of that but, hey perhaps she just wanted one last pint before she went.;)
Yes and it's not particularly close to Southsea Castle as suggested in this video. The castle must be 1km away at least.
Hearing all those little incidents makes me feel sad, including that tidbit about the anchor. It's as if she knew she was headed to her deathbed and didn't want to cooperate...
@@largol33t1 Warspite straight up beached herself on the way to the scrapyard, which is just as sad
@@Glavenuss Warspite and Vanguard didn’t want to go
After watching the first 5 minute guide to Vanguard I sat there going “I want more” as always, never expected the delivery to be so quick Drach
One of my earliest memories was being aboard HMS Vanguard at a Navy Day. I was maybe 6 or 7 years old. I can remember standing in the shade of what was to me, a massive turret and looking straight up the sheer face of that super-structure. I honestly can recall being absolutely awestruck. Thank you so much for rekindling a fantastic memory for me. apologies if technical terms are incorrect.
Battleships are the most beautiful awesome things ever built.
I not 100% sure?? A 69 Chevelle SS with that 396 is pretty special in its own right.
Thankyou so much for this video... my Dad served on HMS Vanguard, he was a Chief Petty officer electrician! He was immensely proud to have served on Britain’s last Battle ship and used to recount tales of her massive fire power that used to shift her sideways when those big guns were fired! Your video brought back a lot of memories of my Dad, Bill Baker.... rip Dad.
Sorry, not even Iowa Class' 3x3 16' could move those ships sideways and Vanguard and Iowa were comparable in weight (Iowa even heavier in full load)
It's basic physics, long before you reach the power to move something as massive as a battleship *sideways* through the water
you blow the turrets out of the turret rings
Getting the ship to roll? Yeah, but actually shifting sideways? Nope!
@@Nightdare you are spot on. Large artillery pieces are fitted with buffers and recouperators. The buffers slow and damp the recoil of the guns as they are fired. The recouperators return the guns to their starting position once the guns recoil has been stopped.
The force required to move 45000 tonnes of ship sideways against the water resistance would tear it to pieces.
Like the picture at 24:39, just for the fact that someone has written "Me" and drawn and arrow pointing to one of the sailors.
that was my favorite too! some old codger must have been very proud of that photo. :)
Sole reason I came to the comments was to see if anyone else had posted about that. Was going to tell Drachinifel that we know it wasn't him! XD
I barely noticed that
HMS Vanguard also appears in various guises in the movie Sink The Bismarck with turret exteriors of her twin 15-inch standing-in for HMS Hood while her turret interiors were used for HMS Prince of Wales... "right gun jamming on charge... right gun jamming on charge..." and then again later when Bismarck was being sunk. With a uniform change she also doubled for the Bismarck's turret interior as well. B
Nice!
All true!
Barry Slemmings
I was 11 in 1957 ang got a subscription to _Popular Science_ for Christmas so I was able to follow along with Vanguard's progress from refit to reserve to scrapping. I thought the scrapping proposal would surely be shelved by the Prime Minister. Little did I know at the time about the fatal combination of Eden and MacMillan for the RN. I thought Vanguard was the best looking, even while being utilitarian, battleship of the era.
Damn, dad would be as old as you today.
@@WALTERBROADDUS This is what happens if you live long enough. You become your father's age. It's actually pretty weird. My dad was 80 when he passed away so I still have a couple years to go.
The ship was obsolete, sentimentality doesn't change that.
@@emintey Preserving a ship for museum use has everything to do with history and nothing to do with how obsolete a ship might be. Given your way of thinking, the USS Constitution and HMS Victory should have been broken up for firewood because they were "obsolete".
@@sarjim4381 Unfortunately you didn't mention preserving it as a museum, thank you for clarifying what your intent was.
It's such a shame that we (Britain) didn't preserve a battleship. HMS Belfast is a fine ship, but she is a cruiser. The Vanguard was magnificent, and would have been a fitting symbol of naval power, being the last battleship. However, if we could keep only one, my vote would have been to preserve Warspite, which served in both world wars with great distinction. Ah well, at least there are impressive models of these ships in the Science Museum at Kensington.
“long-range, anti-aircraft, sniper system.” One of the driest statements I have heard this century.
Right up there with the one on Alaska "in keeping with the desire for the crew to exercise their second amendment rights"
I really enjoy theses 5² minute guides. Just don't overwork yourself for our sake, Drach. I couldn't sustain your level of content output ^^
Is it me, or was this ship entirely made of revised and updated parts, leaving almost no original components behind. Like that American Hotrod TV show.
@@neilwilson5785
I have no idea what you're on about.
I served on the Vanguard in 1953 as an EM2 rating. She was a great ship.
Bill Greenwood and Co.
Where you in the navy during ww2
@@Ukfairgrounds No, 1 didn't join up until 1952
How was she in heavy seas? I heard a story once that that during a NATO exercise she could work her guns in seaways that even made the Iowa's do nothing but pray.
Pity the RN hadnt vanguard at the start of the war and built a 5 class number of them they could retire the older dreadnaughts and modernized Hood rebuilding her as a battleship with capped funnels with the KG Class the germans would think twice before fighting the Vanguard class .
All that work. All that equipment. Never fired a shot.
*never fired a shot in anger you mean
Poor girl just wanted a last pint in the Still and West before she left Pompey and that seems very reasonable to me. The used to have a picture of Vanguard as seen form the pub when she broke loose, and its very much "##ck me that was close"!
For a ship made with a lot of off-the-shelf parts she sure is beautiful
Only the main guns were used parts.
I know you said you'd have an extended version soon, but this really takes the biscuit!
And the cake, and yet another thing, if you want it to be a Drachism ;-)
and a cakea and the beer and the candy :)
It's a Nelson era ship's biscuit, those take some chewing...
Bourbon or Custard Cream, I leave it to you.
@@neilwilson5785 - and a ration of rum!
I've always thought that HMS Vanguard was a very good looking ship, one of the best actually. I could quibble about the rather blocky superstructure, but I suppose it was evolved from the Warspite superstructure, and perhaps it predicts the examples of Brutalist architecture that can be seen in London today; particularly the Trellic Tower (of Terror) and the Barbican estate.
One of the most beautiful battleships built....also, one of the best!!!
@Richard McCaig Not so clear cut by any measure. Very dependant on conditions. Vanguard better sea handling than Iowas. Fire control of both on par. Armour better on Vanguard. 16' 50 cal superior to 15' 42 even with superchargers. It is closer than you might want to consider. First punch would be telling.
@Richard McCaig the radar and fire control present actually heavy tips it in Vanguards favour, the bursting charge of the 15 inch shell was much larger than the 16 inch shell on the Iowa and in heavy seas the Iowa would not be able to fire it's forward turret, due to the way the bow is. Also the training in the Royal Navy was far superior to American ships. But it would be a close run thing, and Iowa has a speed advantage.
@Richard McCaig the radar and fire control present actually heavy tips it in Vanguards favour, not to mention it's better armour on Vanguard, the fact the 15 inch gun had a much larger bursting charge than the Iowa's 16 inch guns and in heavy seas the Iowa would not be able to fire it's forward turret, due to the way the bow is. Also the training in the Royal Navy was far superior to American sailors. But it would be a close run thing.
I remember detraining with my father at Portsmouth Harbour and seeing her parallel to us, on her own. Maybe late fifties. She was huge and lovely-never forgotten the sight.
Hope you had your camera 📸 with you? Nice 👍, very nice. (50's though, guessing, no).'
While Vanguard may not be the biggest or the most powerful Battleship ever built she is absolutely the most beautiful by a wide margin.
Just went back to watch HMS Tiger to compare. MASSIVE improvement in video quality in just two months. You've nearly eliminated umms ahhs and ands, you're getting your points across better and organizing your points by category rather than by date. Keep up the good work, I'm subscribing.
My grandfather was in command on her final voyage, he was regarded as a towing expert at the time. Oops.
The overhead photo is blown up at the back of the Still and West pub, which at least used to do excellent fish and chips. The hull alone towered over the four storey pub.
It’s a great shame that so few of these beautiful ships were preserved.
Some armour from the Vanguard was used in the River Don Works apprentice shop as the floor, I was an apprentice in the early 70s don't think I ever damaged it.
Ironic that a ship called the Vanguard was the last of her kind.
bit like the Vickers Aircraft Company
+Ben Wilson I don't get that :\
Sgt Steel The word Vanguard effectively means someone who starts a movement, or one of the first people to start something.
+What? I need a name? Yes, I know. I was talking to Ben Wilson. I don't understand his comment about Vickers.
@@SgtSteel1 The last aircraft they made was the Vickers Vanguard
Vanguard was an excellent sea boat & a very steady gun platform this was brought home in operation Mainbrace where the Iowa"s were constantly shipping green.
Her sea keeping abilities were superior to any US battleship in rough seas much to the red faces of US naval personnel. A friend of my father served on her and he loved the ship to bits and was gutted when they scrapped her.
@@fyorbane She was a beautiful ship.
Hehe.... Try sailing through very heavy seas in a 430 ft. Frigate. We were tossed all over, many shipmates getting seasick. Mess decks was.... a mess. Food scattered so bad, guys were sliding around, looked like a scene from a Three Stooges movie.
I lived in Gosport (near portsmouth Harbour) as a kid, we all cheered when she ran aground, much love for this ship.
The last hurrah for the British Empire, thanks for this, I've always been a fan of Vanguard. My uncle was a radar tech on her at one time. As a little boy I stayed at his flat in Portsmouth when the Coronation celebrations were happening and Mum and I went out to see the ships.
Thank you for that five minute guide. Though history can’t be changed I have to agree that Vanguard would have looked fantastic along side Victory as a museum ship. Such a shame
Honestly, any of our WW2 battleships would have looked great in Portsmouth, though in my opinion the one that really deserved to be conserved was Warspite, that ship went through almost everything the axis could throw at her
@@davidandmartinealbon3155 And the Imperial German Navy, 2 world war heavy weight champion....
I would go with Warspite or the KG V. Possibly one of the older carriers that survived the war. For the US, we missed out on Enterprise, which earned more combat stars than any USN ship in WWII.
As an 11 year old, i had a Newspaper photo of Vanguard on my wall, it showed her being moved to the breakers yard, even then i never really understood why our governments would throw away our history and heritage, But it did, it is tragic that out of touch politicians had no idea how the population felt at the time, AND of course HMS Warspite went to her grave at the hands of the same politicians. A wrecked history i think ( no pun intended ) Our history destroyed by political motives, future generations will never understand what we once achieved as a maritime nation. dare i say Britannia did once rule the waves !
I understand Warspite being scrapped even though it sucks. They were bankrupted. Preserving a ship is expensive. I dont really get why they had to scrap this one as I would assume they were much more financially stable.
Jesus Christ man,the politicians are doing their best to destroy our heritage especially Labour Party it’s surprising they haven’t sent the local police around to your house to re-educate you,they say it’s racist to be proud of our maritime domination of the world,how stupid they are
In response to your comments I totally agree with you 👍 our politicians are out of order,they are not interested in hearing what the public have to say or any interest in the preservation of famous British warships be they Battleships or Cruisers or Aircraft Carriers , the then prime minister could and should have saved HMS WARSPITE and HMS VANGUARD from their terrible fate and preserved them for a grateful nation and future generations
Off-the-shelf spare parts battleship 😅
Didn't they do that for one of them from the Spanish American war? However civilian grade artillery is an off-the-shelf component puzzles me.
Now we just need a ship made by Snap-On and one made from aftermarket parts.
the perfect ship to fight the junkers ju 287. both are massive partys of spare parts (and in case of the ju287 even some parts of shot down allied bombers).
Ahahaha...
That's a myth. Sure they used turrets and guns destined for older ships, however, by the time they were reworked and redesigned, they were just as modern and effective as any other modern battleship.
During the 1970s I worked with an engineer who had been the Gunnery Officer - 'Guns' on HMS Vanguard
He said that one day in 1958 or 1959 we got a signal which read - 'Go to sea and don't come back with any 15" ammunition"
So we went out into the North Atlantic, well clear of any shipping lanes, and fired it all off
I was a 4th year Shipfitter (fitter and turner) apprentice in HM RN Portsmouth Dockyard when they were stripping her of anything useful, I went aboard and made my way to the Engineers' workshop, where just about everything was gone, but I found quite a lot of HSS lathe tool bits in a cupboard. I still have those tool bits in my shed (here in Australia), they are top quality and come in very handy for my lathe. Poor old Vanguard, it was a shame she had to go.
Incidentally, she didn't go aground at Southsea Castle, that is much further 'around the corner' from where she decided she needed a pint at the Still and West pub.
Thanks Drachinifel, good run down on Vanguard.
It doesn't'matter how good Vanguard and any other RN ship was, for that matter, the damded Russians have managed to screw the lot over in World of Warships. Keep up the great work Drach 👍👍👍
That Stalinium. In a training room, I was using my USS Alabama and one guy using the Sinop somehow bounced my 16 inch AP shells at less than 8k when he exposed his ENTIRE broadside. It bounced ALL of my AP shells that connected... The fucked up thing about it is I heard Sinop has TWO full thickness armor belts each are 400mm!!! 16 inches EACH!
Why not just ram him, he not immune to that?
WOWs has no bering in the real world. It's an arcade shoot them up with little realism or accuracy.
Great work as usual Drach! For anyone interested there's a really excellent period colour film on RUclips, an episode of 'Look at Life' which covers her trip to the breakers, including her grounding in Portsmouth harbour.
Aye, good watch that.
My god there are an amazing amount of radars sets on Vanguard compared to other battleships
lessons were learnt
Hurray, just in time for...nothing.
Back when I first became interested in Naval warfare I saw a comment that said the ship should have been called HMS Rearguard since she was commissioned after the age of Battleships had already ended.
Designers: how many radar sets do you want?
Royal Navy: All the radars All of them!
Radar was to the Royal Navy like AA guns were to the US Navy.
Your name gave us a chuckle 🤣🤣. (was much needed, thanks).
In terms of looks I've never really been a big fan of Vanguards appearance. But 7:17 I've got to say that has got to be one of the most beautiful photos of a battleship I've ever seen!
with no offence to RN , but Brits always made their BB's ugly :(
@Brett Mitchell Eh, shes a good ship. But my personal favorite is still Richelieu class. About the same size, but slightly faster, and she look like a floating fortress with her full load out of 24, 4"(100mm) guns 9, 6" (150mm) guns (all aft) and 8, 15" (380mm) guns all forward. Also no Vanguard in Kancolle or Azur Lane, feels bad man.
Sexual Tyrannosaurus
At the risk of being mistaken as a weeb:
It would definitely be nice for KC to finally add an end-gen British battleship, given that they have at least one end-gen battleship for the other navies that had them. On the other hand, I’m not a fan of end-gen battleships (at least in terms of combat performance) due to them being obsolete upon launch, and I honestly don’t like the characterization of the ones we do have in the game.
@@TEHSTONEDPUMPKIN Good heavens. Judging a real battleship by if it appears in any Japanese anime/busty school girl games. I've never understood the kawaii thing among Westerners.
@@sarjim4381 I mostly meant that ironically. Besides I wasn't "judging it whether it appears in a Japanese/Chinese(Azur Lane) game/anime)" It was mostly meant as a jab towards the ship since, Bismarck, Iowa, Yamato, Littorio, Kongou, and Richelieu, all appear in either one or both, where as Vanguard doesn't appear in either. Besides given the fact I have a Kancolle doujin profile pic, is it any surprise, Im degenerate weeb trash? XD
A damn fine ship! Nice that she voiced her opinion about being sent to the breakers.
She wasn't old enough to be as cranky as warspite. But she tried.
It's been said many times: Warspite and CV-6 Enterprise being scrapped was almost a war crime.
HMS Vanguard is an automatic upvote.
I used to listen to Drach because of my tinnitus. I needed an even, pleasant voice talking for up to 5 hours so I could get to sleep. 6 months later and I can quote the primary, secondary and tertiary weapon mountings of all HMS battleships, their armor belt thicknesses and launch dates. How? I wasn't listening!! WHY DIDN'T I LISTEN TO MATHS LECTURES WHILE ASLEEP IN MY HIGH SCHOOL YEARS!!
26:25 - No, she didn't go ashore anywhere near Southsea Castle, it was the Still and West at the Northeast corner of the harbour narrows. The castle is better than a mile away where the channel turns south away from the shore.
Simply fabulously clear and informative video. Many thanks. What a fabulous museum piece she would have been to honour the Royal Navy 😢
A mighty battleship in the days when aircraft carriers were the new kings of the sea. Would be a great battle if Vanguard took on the Tirpitz one to one.
from the Victory to the Vanguard;
kudos to the Royal Navy for the best of all bookends to a class.
But such a shame that not a single RN battleship was saved as a museum.
@@whigparty6180 truly tragic.
their loss is every bit as shameful as the fate decreed for the great Enterprise. fkn shortsighted bean-counters. more history lost forever because of faceless bureaucrats who never served or put it on the line. thank God that the Iowa sisters lived.
Love the long version, it's like having the executive summary, then the full chapter.
A handsome and magnificent ship, what a shame [shame on the UK goverment of the time] she was not preserved as a museum.
Anyone else love the modest look of the 15-inch Mk I guns?
No, they are old and poorly designed like Hood with the powder room in a more vulnerable position. I get it using whatever is available, especially in war time but it is what it is...An off the shelf spare parts ship that took years to finish and when finally finished the war was over and it was not needed.
@@chopchop7938 I know. Still looks good though.
The guns should be ridiculous in size .
@@chopchop7938 firstly they are definitely not poorly designed, the "powder room" is in the same place in all battleships because it has to be there due to the way you load a gun, the Hoods wasn't in the wrong place it just didn't have sufficient deck armour and if you say Vanguard didn't have sufficient deck armour, no battleship ever did, because only Yamato had thicker deck armour.
I recall her at Portsmouth, moored alongside the main dockyard building when we visited HMS Victory in the mid-1950's. Security was very strict, and any cameras, binoculars etc. had to be left at the Royal Marine post at the Dockyard gates, before we were escorted in groups to view Nelson's flagship.
I visited Vanguard with my parents when she was at Portland. So sad that she was broken up, although she was of no particular significance since she never actually served as a warship. A bigger scandal was the break up of HMS Iron Duke. I also recall that my mother was prevented from falling over the side by an alert rating.
Long may she sail ( perhaps.now. not so much ) but always, as ever,thanks for your work - bringing these ships and their stories back to life. Immortal Memory, Lest We Forget.
It's unfortunate how little history is actually remembered. There are few WW2 vets remaining, but that belies that there are no WW1 vets, Franco-Prussian vets, Hundred Years War vets, etc. We have forgotten so very much.
Correction, she went aground in the narrows by the Still and West (pub). Southsea Castle is a mile down channel.
That said, thank you for a fascinating account of a ship that I still remember vividly.
My dad was a bit of a forager at ship breakers yards. As he was a veterinary sales rep he could plan trips that passed either Faslane or Inverkeithing. Sometimes I used to go with him
We went to Faslane the day after Vanguard arrived and most of her 15" guns had been removed
She is Gorgeous, us Brits know how to make a pretty ship (even if the Nelsol got bullied)
I don’t care what people say but, Nelson and Rodney were 2 sexy ships!
Anything but gorgeous in my opinion. Vanguard looked stodgy and old fashioned compared to the Majestic and symmetrical lines of other battleships. EG Bismarck, Iowa
@@jannandjohn yeah, that Bismark looked really sexy while it was pummelled to scrap iron on its first mission, by the ugly Rodney.
@@tonytye8963 by finest Rodney that terror the bismarck put end to her life.
You can see that they decided to add extra flare and height to the bows. The sheer is uneven .
That's so sad,she would of been great today as a battle ship. There still useful,they can make anything disappear from the safety of the sea. Relocate and repeat as needed.
Almost nothing around day can hurt her to bad.
Would be awesome to see the battle ships back in action.
It's just a dream now,to see them in all there glory on battle again.
I feel bad watching this because as much as I like and appreciate the Vanguard I keep thinking ‘could have been Lion’.
As always, great history and commentary. I was a radarman aboard a destroyer escort in the USN in Viet Nam in 71 and 72. Loved the sea. Crazy, as I would do it again. Been aboard Alabama. She is also a magnificent CAPITAL ship with a great history. I am also amazed at the lethality of the new "CAPITAL" ships. Amazing. Hope we never need to use them in anger.
Keep it up and thanks again.
kind of ironic built in John Browns on the Clyde and broken up at Faslane a few miles down river in the Gareloch a sad end to a lovely looking ship :>(
Not being British, I don't understand the irony.
What is the irony in that?
you define irony then
@@aebirkbeck2693noun: a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often amusing as a result.
The US Navy had an extensive study before installing 16" / 50 cal. Rifles on her last few battleships, but with the world's metallurgy finally reaching it's upper limits, they tended to wear badly. Especially the last third of their length.
The absolute best wear pattern for maximum use was around 40 caliber for 14 to 16 inches. What the US Navy learned from thousands of fired shells from these 50 cal. 16" guns were that battleship engagements took place at much less than 20,000 yards.
I'd say Vanguard's 42 cal. / 15" rifles were well suited for battleship duels in my opinion. I'd even say that she might even have enjoyed a slight advantage in such engagements.
As a Naval history amateur I have always loved the US Navy's late war hull designs and the Royal Navy's superstructure designs. A wish of mine was that the 2 Navy's had co-designed an ultimate battleship...
The irony is that the USN planned for very long-ranged engagements and planned their doctrine around such, but this turned out to be something of a failed doctrine, as even the best FCS in the world proved too inaccurate at such ranges.
That's why the Royal Navy's Lion's were to be designed with the new reliable and longer lasting 16" 45 caliber gun's. 50 + caliber simply took too much wear and tear out of the rifle.
Hms vanguard my favorite battleship I was hoping for this episode thank u and have an amazing day.
One thing that was not touched on in the video was the fire control system for the main battery. The Vanguard was the only ship fitted with the Admiralty Fire Control Table Mark 10. It had been intended to also fit it in some large cruisers that were never laid down.
This was the most advanced surface gunnery fire control system fitted in any ship that served or was designed in World War 2. It was designed to take advantage of technogical developments and tactical lessons of the war.
It was designed from the start to exploit radar. But what was unique about it is that it was designed to predict the path of a turning target. This meant that it would be more effective against a target taking evasive action than any other comparable system. It would have given Vanguard the advantage against ships with heavier main batteries. So Vanguard would probably have outmatched even a Yamato or an Iowa.
Lloyd Flack the USN had their own version; the Mk I Ford analog computer from early 43 on which carried on into the digital era It too intergraded radar for accurate hits at high speed in total darkness
Being able to shoot at a maneuvering target wasn't some sort of new innovation as many seem to believe, it was something that had been feasible since before WW with the first mechanical fire control computers. By WWII everyone was using fire control computers and synthetic fie control, though the US and Britain had an edge due to theirs being attached to radar (not that this mattered, since by that point the whole idea of a big-gun gunfight was obsolete except in very rare scenarios)
petition for Drach to pin the Drachisms of the Day
Indisputedly the best battlewagon ever built, the apogee of the whole concept
The intro for this video gets me ramped up to go play World of Warships every single time.
I like to think that I know a bit. Drach is next level, and more. This channel is so underrated.
My favorite British navy ship. And the best looking one in my opinion.
Abe S. Idk the refitted Queen Elizabeth class with the big octagonal superstructure is really awesome
@@maxkennedy8075 OMG no, they looked hideous.
@@chopchop7938lol why u so negative? It's like ur just scrolling threw comments looking for something to disagree with.. every single comment uve wrote had been negative and/or argumentative
Vanguard should have been preserved. What a magnificent piece of machinery.
Another outstanding video, thank you! I'd love to see, at some point in the near, or far, future, a video on the various fire control systems these ships used for their main, secondary and anti-aircraft armament.
Easily my favourite battleship. What a shame she couldn't be kept as a museum. Thanks for another amazing video!
Well that was a rather sad story to wake up with. Poor thing never stood a chance with all those frijjin redesigns and modifications. I feel a bit sorry for her.
This was the best of your excellent coverages of battleships. Keep up the good work.
if i ever become absurdly rich I want to order a functional replica of the HMS Hood and have it sail to different ports as a mobile museum ship.
Maybe HMS Warspite could have also done good
One of my earliest memories was looking up at the guns on the vanguard, I must have been about four years old.
Ah, I see someone has been reading R A Burt ;) Just got his book on Vanguard myself, loved it!
that final bit was amusing to me. "No! I don't wanna go!" *escapes the tugs and grounds herself* XD
A tragic loss not to have saved a battleship for a museum piece 😢
I've just started viewing your shows and they are great - thank you! May i suggest some of the smaller US Navy ships from WWII like the LST, attack transport, Liberty ship, YMS, AM, PC, PCE, LCI, LCI gunships, LSM, LSM(R) and LCT. It has always amazed me how those were built and crewed in the thousands and don't get the recognition they deserve. Also support ships like floating dry docks, destroyer, submarine, seaplane (my dad served on the USS Pine Island during the Korean war) and PT tenders, and specialized ships. Not many of these last few but still proved vitally important to have in anchorages on islands as they were captured and fronts moved forward. Thanks and keep up the good work!
Note : In Naval circles we say "Screws" never "propellors". Just like "Ships Company" rather than "Crew". Otherwise great stuff.
This is written for non naval types so... layman's terms
I'd also prefer the proper terminology, and pronunciation. Not even laymen say "Deedo" for Dido.
My uncle, larry Reilly, served as a stoker on her. He was on Eurylas too, which he much preferred. Beautiful looking ship.
Personally, I would have chosen Rodney instead of Vanguard for a museum ship. She was much more distinctive-looking, and she had a very distinguished career. Vanguard was mostly a harbor queen, and very non-descript.
Duke of York gets my vote.
Hood, if never sunk, would be there instead of the HMS Belfast
1 Warpsite 2 Hood (if she survived) 3 Vanguard 4 Nelson 5 KGV
A beautiful ship, but, like Miniver Cheevy, "born too late . . . ." The only thing that detracts from her lines, as at least one person pointed out below, is that blocky, boxy THING amidships. Looks like a forerunner of the hideous vessels the USN is building these days! As always, Herr Doktor Drachenstein, excellent work!
At 2:49 the ship drawing is labeled mostly in Russian, it seems. I'm curious as to why?
This ship had a mutiny onboard off South Africa whilst the queen was onboard. The mutiny was stopped and covered up. The intention of the mutineers was to bring light onto the poor conditions and pay of the Royal Navy. Sadly it still continues to this day.
Could you do the T class submarine HMS Thermopylae, my dad served on it in the 60's I think
There are some good pictures in "The still and west" pub on Southsea side of Portsmouth harbor, it's their pub that the ended up under the bow of this massive ship.
More cold war ships, please. Always find the Falklands era really interesting but badly underrated.
I'm not going to push that far, but early cold war sure makes a lot of interesting stories.
I would love to see an assessment of NATO vs. Warsaw Pact in terms of GIUK, North Sea, Norway and the Baltic both in terms of strategy and forces deployed. I would imagine seeing a progress from the late forties up to maybe the 1960s would be interesting and not put too much pressure on Drach's no-modern-politics rule.
@@lukashei1870 I suggest reading into the Falklands war a bit. I didn't really think too much of that era at all either until I did a bit of research on it and it totally changed my view on the era and really sparked my interest.
Especially with most of the warships from that conflict being scraped over the past few years its important to highlight them now. Also, the former HMS Hermes (flagship of the task force in 82, and the longest-serving warship in the world) is now out of service with the Indian navy and possibly might even come back to the UK, so its very relevant.
I personally don't like the look of very modern warships, but I think that ships from the 50s-2000 get a bit of a bad rep being that they are kinda stuck between two eras and totally overshadowed by WW2 ships in legacy, but I don't think they are any less deserving to be highlighted.
When you read into it you will realize that it was a very important and interesting era in naval development.
@@Armo1997 Drachinfel has stated he doesn’t like to touch the cold war too much as it could lead to political stuff
@@redtob2119 Yeah i know this but I still think its a bit short sighted. Anything military-related is going to get political....
I love ships and warships too.
Special thanks though as this episode cured my insomnia!