LOST EXPLAINED PART 12 - THE OTHERS
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- Опубликовано: 25 мар 2021
- The twelfth chapter in a series of LOST EXPLAINED videos that investigate the mythology and mysteries from the seminal television series LOST. These definitive explanations are based on multiple viewings of the show over the years and careful studying of the details, clues, inconsistencies and contradictions that make up the complex tapestry of what is the greatest television show from the 2000s.
Chapter Twelve explores the nature of the show's main antagonists known as "The Others". This video explains their inception and purpose, and untangles their motivations under the different leaderships from Eloise Hawking to Charles Widmore to Ben Linus. Other mysteries explored and explained include why Richard Alpert tested John Locke as a boy; the differences between Ben's group at the barracks and Dogen's group at the temple; what the others really knew about the smoke monster; and what "the rules" really mean.
ABC owns all copyright. The footage and music used in this video are for educational purposes only and fall under fair use. 
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*ATTENTION! For viewers who take issue with the text-to-speech voice*
All of these older videos have been entirely revoiced and remade in better quality (and feature A LOT more detail). They have been combined together as part of a six part video series called The Theory of Everything, which you can watch here: ruclips.net/p/PL5iTj9psbPrNovFOg4pJJIyxiLAv2WAKB
Namaste! 🙏
this channel is like finding a new Dharma station that explains everything
This might be my favourite comment ever!
I wanna see Lindelof & Cuse marathon it and finally understand the show
I just gotta say: I was blown away when you brought up the Others' ritual regarding the deaths of their own - burning the body and sending it out to sea. I never thought to connect that with the fact that it would ensure the Man in Black wouldn't be able to use their forms. Very interesting!
Facts!! I just thought it was similar to a Viking funeral
To paraphrase Locke: we're gonna need to watch that again 😂
Great material, thanks!!
I mentioned the exact same quote in a comment of my own on one of these videos. The sheer information density in all of these really calls for re-watching them to process them better.
I like how Hurley gave Ben a chance to redeem himself and ran the island with him.
I think this mutual respect began when Hurley gave Ben half of his Apollo candy bar while Locke was inside the cabin.
I'm also glad Hurley was the protector at the end. Every other leader of theirs was horrible (except for John Locke, but that was temporary) and the Others were too violent and horrible to the plane survivors. Lots of sad stuff happens by the end of the show but at least the island is left in the hands of someone who isn't nearly as violent as those who came before.
Hurley becoming protector of the island. Gets me every time. x,(
Nicely laid out. I like how you explain that there was a mix of orders coming through from both Jacob via Richard and Ben. So many people don't get that. Ben was clearly riffing on Jacob's lists and instructions to accomplish his own goals. Even Richard was tired of Ben's leadership style and meddling in the process; he says as much to Locke in 'The Brig'. Also, wanted to say how frickin' awesome these videos are. Should be required viewing for anyone who finishes the show!
Thank you, that's very kind of you to say.
@@supremeworld87 These videos make sense though, which is more than I can say for most people's theories. I've read a lot about Lost over the years and none of it has been as comprehensive or as convincing as this. For all we know the we're talking to Damon Lindelof ;D
@@supremeworld87 Dude, you completely changed the comment I just responded to?
@@supremeworld87 Yeah but you totally changed your comment from basically saying: "This is all just BS theories and no one should take it seriously" to literally a completely different comment. So now my original reply doesn't make any sense. Nothing wrong with editing but if you want to write an entirely new comment then just create a new reply. It breaks the chain! Especially for other readers.
@@supremeworld87 Yes, Dogen disseminated certain information to Ben's group when they first arrived at the temple in 2004 (about how to protect the temple with the ashes). I never made the claim that "everyone" at the temple was part of Jacob's group within a group. I said that specifically Dogen and Ilana (and by default Lennon and Bram) were specially recruited by Jacob in person, unlike the rest of the others. Jacob selected these people and told them information that he never told anyone else; not the leaders of the others and not even Richard (who led the general recruitment of people).
The distinction between The Others and The "Other" Others is them having met and been recruited by Jacob, plus their depth of knowledge on the smoke monster/MiB, clearly told to them by Jacob himself. Their defence and detection practices go beyond even Richard's own knowledge (who knows very little about any of this stuff as we discover in S6). And we know Ilana and Bram have been to the island before due to their knowledge of its geography, such as the cabin, statue and temple. Ilana even knows where the secret escape passage is inside the temple itself. They are part of Jacob's secret group. I am actually surprised that you would even see this as being a theory at all. This information is absolutely demonstrated in the show and can be pieced together through making very few deductions. No theories needed.
Bro the way you break all this down is just as awesome as watching the show good job🤘🏽
That is an incredibly high compliment! Thank you :)
I second that!
I am currently rewatching the series...@ S4 "Cabin Fever". Ithpught I had it all figured out, many of my friends do not. These videos are next level in explaining the details that even I thought were flawed. Im up all night watching them now⚪⚫
Hugo running the island in a Fantasy Island-like spin-off show would be great.
There were fans who suggested it was the same island.
Great work! I am also a believer of the 80's Purge date rather than 90's. 'One thing about the Others that really helps me when explaining them to viewers that feel confused by them and their actions is just to look at the show in its entirity and the way it thematically represents so many religions. In both the civilizations on the Island (that have been shown to be Buddhist, Hindu and believers of Egyptian mythology). The DHARMA Iniative being a big fan of Greek mythology (as well as Jacob weaving in Greek into his tapestry. Sayid being a Muslim, several characters being Christian and Catholic.
While The Others is the next - and dangerous - step. They're a cult. They've mixed all of those traditions from various places. "An eye for an eye"-rule from Judaism. Hindu buriual rites mixed with what look like a Viking burial. The Others is an interesting study in cults, particularly destructive cults that have no trouble using immoral means to recruit members. They are so into their belief in The Island that many of them don't see it. Take this quote from The Other 48 Days when Ana-Lucia and Goodwin are talking about them.
ANA LUCIA: Why do you think they're doing this?
GOODWIN: Why do I think who's doing what?
ANA LUCIA: Them. Don't you ever wonder why they attack us?
GOODWIN: Maybe they're not attacking us.
ANA LUCIA: Yeah, they just drag us into the jungle every now and then -- no real harm done.
GOODWIN: Good point.
He just smiles. And later on.
ANA LUCIA: What about the kids? Did you kill them, too?
GOODWIN: Children are fine. They're better off now.
He doesn't see that what they do is wrong. He was there when they were taken. The kids were screaming for their lives. But you're dealing with a cult where they have a different way of thinking.
I agree 100% that The Others function just like a cult in the way they are presented throughout. Their devout belief in Jacob -- a man none of them have ever met -- is certainly analogous to a belief in god. And their religious-like dogma is also twisted further by intercommunity politics and power plays. I think their malevolent actions and intentions are entirely dependent on who is leading them. Under Hurley, they will be a more harmonious group.
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 Oh yeah, definitely. Calling the epilogue "the New Man in Charge" and knowing Hurley's personality (as well as how Ben has redemeed herself) - it is telling that it's a peaceful time and new management. No more kidnappings and manipulations.
I’m loving each part of this but this one in particular was extremely well done. Great job.
God bless this channel!!
Wow had to subscribe love these videos it made sense before but this is making it so crystal clear these are so cool. I can see me watching these over and over again lol. Love lost this makes me want to watch lost again lol. Especially with this new knowledge lol.
That is my main goal with this series: to enhance people's enjoyment and understanding of LOST. I'm really pleased to hear that you are finding these videos helpful.
Hi again. Since you mentioned Eloise Hawking, can you give me your assessment of her powers? Many people seem to feel that any "foresight" she possesses is easily explained away by the fact that she has been in possession of Daniel's journal since 1977, and it covers events up to 2004 and during his time jumps. But surely that can't explain her ability to be in the jeweller's shop in 1995 at exactly the right moment to intercept Desmond, or her knowledge of what was about to befall the man in the red shoes. As the appointed "temporal policewoman" do you think that she was gifted (by Jacob) the knowledge that allowed her to be in the right place at the right time, much like Jacob himself demonstrated in being there when John was pushed out of the window, or when Nadia was killed. She even seemed to have extra insight in the flash-sideways, particularly with regard to Desmond's presence, which she described, from memory, as a possible violation. So do you believe that Jacob gave her extra abilities - a level of omniscience, or the ability to move in a non-linear fashion through time just as Desmond could?
I cover this in Chapter Nine on Charles Widmore and Eloise Hawking ;) We have to speculate on Eloise a little bit because Daniel's journal could only have told her so much. Her interaction with Des in 'Flashes' clearly indicates she had some kind of precognition too, I agree. Whether or not that came to her like Desmond-style flashes; a psychic intuition like Walt; direct instruction from the island like Locke's dreams; or guided omniscience like Jacob, is totally open to speculation. The man with the red shoes is the primary example of her having a power of this kind. She may have acquired this ability following The Incident and from the fallout over the island (around the same time Miles acquired his special gift as well). This might be how she knew to leave the island to avoid the newly created pregnancy threat.
Awesome 👍
I have one critique of this...
Cindy is in the video shown as one of the "Temple others."
However, she makes an appearance in S3, well-dressed, with kids in tow-- when they speak with Jack in the cage at Hydra Island. Around the time of Juliet's trial.
Do others perhaps crossover between groups? Was this an exception for the trial? What are your thoughts on this?
If you recall the events of Season Three, The Others abandon the barracks and become nomadic again, moving from place to place. But at the end of Season Three, Ben gives a clear order to the remainder of his people to go to The Temple to join with the other "Others". He claims it is the last safe place on the island, in advance of the freighter's arrival. Cindy was with that group of Others who merged with the Temple faction. It is made clear that the Temple is always open to all Others. I always gleaned that Ben didn't like being there because he wanted to modernise his people and, perhaps, did not like having his authority potentially undermined by Dogen (who was handpicked by Jacob).
this "code of ethics" of the Others has always interested me and you explain it very well. I've always interpreted the "rules" between Ben and Charles in this perspective, some unwritten rules belonging to this code of the Others (I'm referring at the moment when Keamy kills Alex and Ben says that Widmore "changed the rules", or at the fact that Charles and Ben can't kill each other). What do you think about this?
Oh yes, absolutely. "The Rules" are most definitely a code of ethics amongst the Others that include not killing one another, hence why Ben says this. Former island leaders are still bound by the same covenants.
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 thank you!!
Also, a bit unrelated, but the process by which a person is transformed into a smoke monster…it doesn’t turn them into a “bad” force, yeah? The process isn’t some exacting of judgement, it’s just a side effect of encountering the unmitigated light. If someone whose mentality/soul hasn’t been soured like the MiB human had was to enter the cave and become a smoke monster, wouldn’t they just be a “non-bad” smoke monster?
“Let’s try not to call them ‘the other Others.”
Really cool! Thank you. There’s something about Sayid, that I don’t understand. Big part of his character revolve around Nadia. But after the crash of the Oceanic815 he fell in love with Sharon. Isn’t this odd?
Also I really enjoyed his character in the first season, even more than Jack. But after he became the Dark Sayid he became sooo little charismatic that it’s hard to watch :(
What you think ?? 😃
Here's my take on Sayid and Nadia. I don't believe Sayid ever truly loved her. Their relationship was this: they grew up together as children; she liked him but he didn't like her. As adults, they meet again as torturer and prisoner. He tortures her for months. They develop a strange co-dependency during these unhealthy, violent interactions. Eventually, he helps her escape, out of crushing guilt. Years after the war, he seeks to find her again because he thinks he loves her, but really it is more like an obsession. Their relationship is not too dissimilar to Stockholm Syndrome where hostages and their captors develop a bond and feelings of intimacy, even though the bond comes from a dark place. Off the island, when they find each other again, they enter into what appeared to be a happy relationship for a short time. But it's not a healthy relationship. Think about their awful history. He tortured her! In the flash-sideways, Sayid finally acknowledges that they are not meant to be. He doesn't deserve her love, especially after what he did to her.
With Shannon, like so many of us in life, we fall in love when we least expect it. And I think both Sayid and Shannon were blindsided by finding a connection to each other, the least likely of people, which is what made their coupling so beguiling. Many people never seemed convinced of their love story but I always believed that Sayid and Shannon were destined to fall in love because their fates were intertwined by forces beyond their control. They were soulmates, connecting by the light. The Island guided everyone in both small and large ways. Sayid's relationship and obsession with Nadia was simply so he could follow a path to the Island. Where he would find Shannon. And grief (Shannon's death) and revenge (his willingness to kill for love). And, finally, to redemption (sacrificing himself for others). In the sideways, Sayid and Shannon help each other to remember these truths about one another.
I know what you mean about Sayid in S6. He is under the influence of the villain, which makes him less sympathetic. But I think it makes sense for his character. Sayid was always battling his inner darkness throughout the series. He wanted to be a good man but always found himself drawn back to violence and vengeance. S6 takes him to the extremes of that darkness, but it is there, at the edge of his own humanity, that he finally finds the goodness within. Desmond helps him to realise this at the well. Sayid makes a choice to be a better man and sacrifices himself so that others will live. And he dies a hero because of this realisation/choice.
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 he said himself he loved her. Why wouldn't he love her when he spend 7 years looking for her? He said himself the marriage with Nadia was the happiest time in his life
@@hassanalkhalaf1115 I do not doubt that Sayid believed it was love, but I don't see how a torturer could truly love someone he tortured without feeling immense guilt. This is just my read on their relationship. To me, his pursuit of her was not based on altruistic love but obsession and guilt. That is why he spent years looking for her.
But Sayid, deep down, felt like he didn't deserve Nadia's love because of what he did to her and who he was. He admits this much to her in the flash-sideways, which is a place where the characters can confront the truth of who they really are. If Sayid and Nadia were truly in love and meant to be together, she would have been with him in the sideways and in the church. But they were not soulmates.
Shannon was Sayid's soulmate. Their love affair was both passionate and pure. She came to him without the baggage and toxicity of the Nadia romance. No complicated history, no guilt, no obsession. They just never got a chance to explore this connection beyond the island because of Shannon's untimely death.
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108I would like to disagree.
Nadia and Sayid loved each other without a doubt. Sure he was guilty for torturing a person he loved and he never forgave himself for it. But she did and that's why their love is pure. After she saw his name in the news she traveled immideatly to him. Because he was the man who saved her.
We don't even know if he tortured her. He was a torturer who tortured multiple men and women, yes. But she wasn't anyone of his victims. They recognized each other immideatly and she asked if he wants to see her bruises. He said no because he doesn't want to see her get hurted. Yes he intrigued her but he never hurt her.
The flashsideways aren't the ideal in my opinion. It's not how it should be but it's how they feel and what they wanted to do. We can't look at their flashsideselves and say that's how it's supposed to be. Charlie for example stayed addicted and Jin & Sun weren't married. We can all agree that Charlie getting clean and Jin & Suns marriage are good things. But they didn't happen in the flashsideways. Same for Sayid. He loved Nadia but he still hated himself and didn't believe he was good for her so he let his brother marry her not knowing that they would be happy together.
Excuse me but Sayid and Shannon were pretty toxic. That they ended together in end is one of the few things I would change. She just used him because she needed someone to protect her. She never really loved him for himself but for the things which he can do for her. For example when she flirted with Charlie just to get a fish. Boone is her brother and knows this toxic trait of her very well. She used him and her ex lovers multiple times and tried the same thing with Sayid.
I don't want to hate on Shannon. She was treated awful by her stepmom and this lowered her self esteem. That's why she has the toxic treat to take advantage of other people. She doesn't believe in herself. I honestly feel bad for her. She needs to work on herself to get better. That's exactly why she doesn't belong to Sayid. Both have different issues and need someone who can help them get better.
She didn't help him get better. In fact she brought the worst version of himself again. He started to torture Sawyer because of her. Something he swore he won't ever do again. She also asked him to kill again. Another thing he hated to do. We saw what being a killer can do to him in S5. Why did he end up with a girlfriend who wants him to be the worst version of himself?
The only good thing I give Sayid & Shannon is being the first interracial couple.
@@hassanalkhalaf1115 My assessment of Sayid and Nadia's relationship doesn't come from any personal couples preference (it didn't bother me who ended up with who romantically). I was fine with Sayid and Shannon together and I think Shannon did genuinely fall for Sayid. There is nothing to suggest that their feelings for each other aren't genuine by the time we reach S2 episode 'Abandoned'.
I guess what I am trying to say is that the writers clearly saw and intended Shannon as Sayid's soulmate hence why he was with her in the church at the end and not Nadia. Some fans may not like that coupling or creative choice but it doesn't make it any less true in the canon of the show. Because the story is telling us that these two characters were each other's soulmates.
The best way to look at it is this: those in the church at the end were all bonded to each other beyond simple experience. The light that exists within our Losties connects them in a much deeper, more spiritual way. It goes beyond relationships. And Sayid was connected to Shannon spiritually in a way he wasn't with Nadia.
Who is going to be the Island security system Smoke Monster Jack or Juliet?
Silly question, but ok: candidates must be approved/chosen by the island. Jacob, in the role as leader, has been overseeing the process of attracting and vetting candidates, but he is also more or less just another (magical) person who is doing their best to do what they think they must to abide the island.
So, where do candidate choices originate?
Does Jacob choose candidates and just rely on the island to sift through them? Or does the island somehow express its choices for candidates, and then relay those choices to someone like Jacob to pursue?
There have been so many candidates that I imagine Jacob may just be casting a wide net and figure that the island will sort them out.
Ahh, thinking of it now, the lighthouse showed Jacob potential candidates and then he vetted them himself.
But I forget who originally constructed the lighthouse, and if they built it for that purpose. And, if so, how did they do that, and why? Were they some original island interpreters? Or was it a normal lighthouse that just got possessed by the magic of the island? Like, the island just took it as a convenient mechanism to express its desires to people?
Just finished lost for first time and I’ve watched most of the videos now, when did Ben takeover from Richard and why?
hey what do you think about the theory that Cindy was planted on the plane by Jacob or Richard? That she actually wasn't taken when they were travelling through the Jungle but just used the opportunity to slip away and rejoin the Others? The only thing that bothers me about this theory is that the Others didn't seem to know about Oceanic 815 before it crashed, I mean I guess Richard did maybe idk.
I think this is an old theory from back in the day when the show was first airing. I remember it making the rounds during Season Two days, back when it could have still made some sense. But by the time we see her in Season Three, it doesn't sync up very well. Plus, that would have been such a huge twist that the writers would absolutely need to have revealed it. But you hit the nail on the head when you said that The Others had no idea Oceanic 815 was going to crash. I wish we had gotten a little more with Cindy as she had a very interesting journey off-screen, but there is no reason to believe she was an "undercover" Other.
I have to ask the source 💚
When ben signaled his people with the mirror and they end up rescuing him......where were his people like Alpert ? How and or why did they go there and not the temple to begin with ?
Sorry for the many questions
Well, we see that after The Others up and leave the barracks they become nomadic again. Moving around the island and camping wherever they have strategic advantage. It’s worth remembering that they left the barracks because their location had become compromised and they knew it was only a matter of time before others came. If you can’t find your enemy, you can’t fight your enemy. The whole island is technically their house, as it were, so to them it’s simply like moving rooms. It’s also indicated that some of the group went to the temple during that period, such as Cindy and the kids.
Another really interesting and well-constructed video. No big questions from this one, but a couple of smaller ones. Do you subscribe to the 1987 date for The Purge as mentioned in the LOST encyclopedia, or do you prefer the 1992 date from John's "Horace" dream? Also, given that Dogen has a very important role on the Island and had already met Jacob in Japan, do you believe that he would be allowed his own audiences with Jacob on the Island, or would Richard still act as a go-between for any communication between them?
I was very tempted to leave the date of Ben's takeover as ambiguous. We know it happened between the late 80s and early 90s, but the year of the purge has been contested due to some conflicting information. I do think the 1992 date is closer to being the canon date because the show should always override any external source. But, like Charlotte's date of birth, it might just be an error.
Dogen met Jacob once as far as we know at the hospital. Richard remained the intermediary on the island. We can't know for sure if Dogen ever met with Jacob again but it is highly unlikely given the way things worked on the island with the others.
What i never got was, when Richard visited young John to see if he'd pass the test. And John chose the knife. Why was he wrong?
Because Richard was testing Locke to see if the boy had some kind of awareness of his predestination to be the leader of the others, or of his time travelling to come. It's a similar test Buddhist monks give when they seek out the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama (presenting objects that the Dalai Lama used in his past life). The objects that Young Locke will possess in the future are the compass, the vial of sand (representing the island) and the book of laws (representing the laws of the others). Young Locke chooses two items correctly but then chooses a knife over the book of laws. This casts doubt upon whether or not this boy is: 1) the child version of the John Locke Richard encountered in 1954, and 2) special at all. It was mainly a sign that John Locke was not ready to come to the island yet. Not for many more decades.
What are the rules for which people the smoke monster can imitate? Just that they have to be dead? Or does he have to have access to their body?
Before Richard came was there no community on the island then? After the MIB became the smoke monster? If that was the case what was going on the whole time
Lots of communities lived on the island before Richard came. But the group we know as “The Others” officially began with Richard’s recruitment in 1867.
So was Richard not considered a leader of The Others? Nor a Candidate? 🤔
Richard was the original "Other". Jacob's first recruit. But he only acted as an intermediary. Someone who could relay Jacob's instructions and help shepherd the group on The Island towards certain goals.
All earth dwellers who want to maintain their upright positions as we mend a destroyers heart. But that red head is out of control swinging that fire battle axe. That's where we screwed up.
Oh, I just remembered one small question I had about this video - just a minor timeline thing. You said that Ben usurped and replaced Widmore in the late 1980s, while showing the footage of Widmore being banished. However, Alex was born in 1988 and was a little girl (at least 3 or 4, or 5? can't remember) being pushed on a swing by Ben right before seeing Widmore go. So it had to be the early '90s when he was banished.
That said, you didn't technically say he was *banished* in the late '80s, but that he was usurped and replaced. Does that mean that those things didn't happen all at the same time? As in, Ben took over as leader, but Widmore wasn't completely banished until a few years after that? Obviously it's tricky to know exactly what happened at every point in time when the show doesn't outright tell us, but that part of this video made me think to ask about that.
I was being general with the years because it is never specifically stated what year it is, but you make a very good and valid point. Alex looks to be about four years old in that scene on the swings, so Widmore's banishment no doubt took place around 1991-1992. We can assume that Ben started to seize power shortly before the banishment but had been accumulating political power and influence amongst The Others for several years. Which no doubt started in 1988, after the confrontation with Widmore at the camp over little baby Alex's fate.
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 Gotcha. Yeah, that sounds right to me.
Hi again. I think this question falls within the scope of "The Others", but I could probably ask it in a few different places. The appearance of Harper to Jack and Juliet? It's the real Harper for me, with Ben still having means to contact his people despite being a "prisoner". But suggestions that she's the MIB remain amongst the fan base. On a related topic, Daniel rendering the gas inert at the Tempest. Is that to stop Ben utilising it as a last line of defence, or to stop Keamy from doing so in order to kill everyone? Thanks. 🙂
Excellent question! And one that has come up a few times in the comments on the channel. Fans circle back to this question often, and rightly so. Harper is certainly one of the more ambiguous "appearances" in the show. I'm currently working on a (quite epic) video that goes through all of the apparitions and strange appearances of human characters in the show, so I shall reserve most of my in-depth points for that. But I think Harper has supporting evidence that goes either way -- a human "other" with a strong level of island training or the Man in Black. For it to be the Man in Black, we need to accept that she is a memory capture from Juliet's mind and that he is trying to get her to kill newly arrived candidates Faraday and Charlotte. For her to be human, we need to accept that Harper had some serious craft when it comes to stealth movement (which isn't implausible considering we see other Others do similar things). I will explore both options in the video and logic them out, and give my final assessment on it there.
As for why Faraday and Charlotte were trying to render the gas inert, I think we can take them at their word. They were worried that Ben would try to use the gas on the island, just as Widmore had done against DHARMA (of which Ben was no doubt a key player in making happen considering his access). Widmore knows that Ben might try this, hence why he added it to the list of objectives. I never understood why so many people assume Keamy was going to kill everyone on the island. Ben claims this to frighten everyone into action, but when Ben finally gives himself up to the mercenaries without struggle nor fight we simply see them head back to the chopper to leave the island because their mission has been accomplished. We don't see them try to murder everyone else, nor literally torch the island. I think that was an emergency worst case scenario if The Others fought back and tried to prevent them from removing Ben from power. I'd like to make a video about Keamy and Widmore, and their respective missions, too. As I feel like a lot of their motivations are misunderstood.
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 - thanks, as always, for the response. On the MIB "memory capture" scenario, do you subscribe to the idea that the person being "copied" still has to be dead (in which case Harper has to be dead)?. I often think of the altar boy, Daniel, when this comes up. Presumably, Eko wouldn't know for sure what Daniel's status was by 2004. Would the MIB simply be unable to copy from a memory if the person being copied was still out there in the world alive, or doesn't it matter? On the subject of Keamy having orders to kill everyone after capturing Ben, wasn't this confirmed by Miles when Ben prompted him, or should we disregard that?
@@drewc.4061 This very question of "does the person have to be dead for the MiB to copy them?" is a big part of the upcoming video. And I have really wrestled with this anomaly for a long time. The altar boy Daniel raises the possibility that the Man in Black *can* temporarily become a living person, just not for very long. As you rightly point out, we don't know the status of Daniel in 2004. He could very well be dead, which would line up with the final revelations of smoke monster abilities in Season Six. However, if MiB can take on the form of a living person from a memory capture (with big restrictions on what he can do in that form) then it opens up the possibilities much wider. And it means that ambiguous appearances from Harper to Walt suddenly can be interpreted as smoke related if people so choose. This is the fundamental debate at the core of how old smokey works really. We are definitively told that people have to be dead in order for MiB to become them, at least by MiB himself in Season Six. But at least one appearance -- Daniel -- seemingly contradicts that. I will delve into the possibilities of all this in the video, I promise!
As for Keamy killing everyone... Miles, Faraday, Widmore and Lapidus all individually confirm that the mercenaries primary objective was removing Benjamin Linus from power. Widmore tells Locke that he sent the mercenaries to the island to remove Ben so it could be Locke's time. Now, we can't take his word as gospel by any means. But Faraday does imply the primary objective is getting Ben. Miles re-confirms this in the same episode and outright states it. Then Lapidus later explains to Sun:
"Sun, that boat I came here on -- it was filled with commandos *whose only mission* was to get him."
And this fact is backed up by what we see happen in the show in the Season Four finale. We clearly see that Keamy’s men are only interested in retrieving Ben. Once they have him in the season four finale they prepare to leave the island with him. They don’t try to torch the island or kill anyone else. There is a whole scene in which Keamy argues with Captain Gault about having to activate “secondary protocol” because they couldn’t get Ben the first time and that’s when “torching the island” is brought up. Torching this island and killing more people was an emergency scenario, not the first option. Widmore wanted Ben gone to settle an old score and to fulfil his debt to the time loop.
More importantly, Ben himself literally confesses in Season Five to Fake Locke that had he just gone with Keamy's mercenaries then Alex would still be alive. Every character, including Ben, eventually back up this reading of what happened.
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 - thanks. That raises another question, however. If Widmore sent the freighter, and has already spent decades with access to Daniel's journal, he must know the importance of people like Sawyer surviving so they can time travel and end up in the 70s with Daniel. Yet clearly Keamy and his men had no such limitations placed on them and in fact came very close to killing Sawyer with gunfire. I understand that Widmore couldn't exactly brief Keamy on such things, but didn't he fear causing a temporal paradox as a result of someone like Sawyer dying too soon, or was destiny/the Island always going to ensure that this couldn't happen?
There was a restriction put in place on Keamy’s actions: he couldn’t activate secondary protocol without Captain Gault’s approval. They had to open the safe together. But we know Keamy overrides the captain and mutinies. Widmore couldn’t have foreseen that.
I know what you mean about the risk factor as the mercenaries cause bloodshed before that anyway. Keamy and his men go into the barracks full force with their shock and awe demonstration, killing multiple innocent people in the process. Sawyer and Locke (and any of the predestined time travellers) could easily have been killed in the process. But the truth is that Widmore couldn’t know where each time traveller would be on the island and he certainly couldn’t have predicted that several of these travellers would be at the barracks! As far as Widmore knows - the barracks is occupied by The Others and the Oceanic survivors would be nowhere near there. It’s not like he orders Keamy to go to the beach and shoot-up the Oceanic camp or anything. Their sole destination is “New Otherton”, where they don’t know if they will be facing dozens of armed Others hellbent on protecting Ben. When the mercenaries open fire they do so under the assumption that these are Ben’s people. And Widmore would be under the same impression too. The barracks is exclusively Other territory.
We could also argue that Widmore believed in the nature of fate and that whatever happens is what is supposed to happen. Ergo, The Island will protect the time travellers accordingly and any other collateral damage is acceptable.
Why did richard say that knife doesn’t belong to locke? And why he thought locke is destined to be leader of the others? I don’t understand little bit
I have made a chapter that specifically addresses this. Please check out Chapter Nineteen on this channel. It's called "John Locke's Test". All will be explained there :)
How do you know that Ben was giving out lists different than Jacob's?
in season 6 ben is told that he ws told that was how he summoned the monster he didnt work it out himself
Yes, that is correct. He just never elaborates upon who or what told him where Smokey could be summoned from, so he might have had to figure out the ritual for himself by translating the hieroglyphs.
I think Charles purged Dharma because they kept doing experiments with the light that put the island 🏝️ at risk.
C'mon now, you mean Otherother doesn't just roll off the tongue?
Nother great vid.
Ok but where did the original others come from? Richard was the sole survivor in 1867. How did they gain their wealth?
We can presume that after Richard's arrival, once the two men had agreed upon how to run a society there, Jacob brought other people to the island to join them. And, over time, they built a small community. The wealth of The Others no doubt started with harvesting resources from The Island, whether that be natural minerals to sell on the mainland or old antiquities from previous island inhabitants (lots of ancient artefacts to sell from Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, etc). By the 20th century they could easily have accumulated a decent level of wealth.
Did any of the others have any type of abilities? Or just really good at sneaking? Like Harper in the jungle that time in the rain, or when Richard and the others snuck up on Keemys crew. They probably just knew the island really well and had that advantage
I will be discussing Harper soon in a video about island apparitions, so I will touch upon this a little bit. The Others did include some ex-military types who were well trained. Whether or not Harper was one of them... well, I'll get into it soon ;)
The name of the company, "Mittelos", is ironically akin to the German word "mittellos" which means "destitute, indigent, poor".
Damon and Carlton confirmed in the Lost Podcast that Mittelos was an anagram for "Lost Time", which was a hint towards the time travel coming up in the show.
Yeah, that explains how they lost the second "L"!
If the orders Jacob gives can be xorrupted, why does Jacob use mediators?
Jacob makes it clear that he didn't want to step in or interfere in the day to day decisions of people. "All of this is meaningless if I have to tell anyone to do anything", he says. He only steps in when necessary because he wants people to work things out on their own and understands that the island has its own will to be followed too.
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 How is it meaningless if he tells people what to do? Does he want to ensure the existence of the island or not?
He is trying to prove to the Man in Black that people are inherently good and worth protecting (hence why the island is so important to protect because it is the source of all life). But if he has to step in and tell everyone what to do all of the time then it negates the point.
It is only after Richard arrives that Jacob realises he has to adjust his philosophy to some extent, and start looking for his replacements as, he knows or intuits, that the Man in Black will eventually succeed in having him killed. So, he "hires" Richard as an intermediary that can speak on his behalf and goes into hiding so he can no longer be found.
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 Why is he trying to prove the point?
Because if Jacob can prove to the Man in Black that people are good then that means their lives are precious and the island has a purpose in the world, and a reason to be protected. This would stop MiB from trying to upset the balance of the island by killing everyone on it and trying to destroy every society they try to build. And, on a more personal level, Jacob is hoping that by convincing MiB of all of this, he might just be able to save his brother's soul from the darkness and bring him back to the light.
8:!5 now i now that he couldnt kil a candidate... what would hav hapend if he shoot? nothing right=?
If a candidate still has a destiny to fulfil, they cannot be killed. This includes by the Man in Black. We see multiple instances where candidates could die but something happens to prevent it. Examples: Michael attempts to commit suicide and the gun jams. Jack sits with Richard in the Black Rock and waits for the dynamite fuse to burn down then explode but instead it fizzles out. Candidates cannot die until their destinies have been fulfilled.
You love lost 😂
The lost island sure would have been a fun journey however advent turning into credit earned fasting of more accurate reinforcing bio cells replacing old over-used waring of cells that reach a level of Nirvana Minerva will remember how good showers felt water that heals and creates reversing in aging again as well administered is valued differently abroad the scale of..... tbc
Rousseau is a Bonehead. (Some folks will get it)
It's really difficult to listen to a bot. Great info and concise editing, but the robot voice is grating.
I've started using my own voice recently and I plan to remake a lot of the old videos like this one. The last four vids on my channel all use my real voice for narration. Better to start there for now.
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 I like it it's mysterious
The Natives did not go to war with Dharma. Dharma invaded their island. When the natives established a truce Dharma they violated it in many ways. They built the Swan station where they were not allowed, kidnapped natives, and interrogated them in room 23 then brainwashed them so they wiped part of their memories (or maybe more). Dharma invaded their island. They reacted as any country would. Remember the gas in that building. Why did Dharma make the gas and have all those gas masks and suits stored away? It was to wipe the natives from the island while protecting Dharma. Of course they fought back and used the gas before it could be used on them. Why are people so upset about that? Dharma’s actions were despicable.
i feel dirty for watching this
What a strange thing to change your original comment to say.
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 the original was covered and the end reviled you to be a bot so not so strange after all
I’m not a bot. 🙄 If you’re complaining about the text to speech voice then that has long since been rectified. I have been using my real voice for almost two years now.
The others are the worst good guys ever
Lol, indeed they are!
I would really like to watch this series but the narration is so irritating that I just can't. Please get a narrator that's less mechanical and monotone.
Your wish has already been granted. I used to use a text-to-speech voice because I didn't have a mic or recording software, but I have since remade and re-recorded all of these old videos with my own voice. Check out The Theory of Everything, which is my six-part bumper series that covers the entire mythology and includes waaaay more detail than any of the older, shorter videos: ruclips.net/p/PL5iTj9psbPrNovFOg4pJJIyxiLAv2WAKB