@@gurururuwarararara8164 the point is that oberyn wins and if he didn't showboat, he just lives. Oberyn was very much so capable of killing him without dying, but tragedy is as it always is.
@@gurururuwarararara8164 The thing is it's pretty apparent what the gap between their martial prowess and Oberyn pretty much exceeded him in all but strength
@@gurururuwarararara8164 id say you are dumb because if you wwatch the movie you can clearly see Oberyn can kill mountain if he wanted to, its his arrogance and unawareness that lead to a sneak attack lmao
@@ratiounkn3210 not to mention Jamie Is dueling her whilst his hands are chained together. And if I’m not mistaken she’s in full plate mail and he’s in rags.
@@ratiounkn3210 yeah Jamie is starved, has spent months in a cage (so in really poor physical shape), chained up, and unarmoured. Brienne is basically fresh and in full plate and she's still stunned by his skill. If I remember correctly she even thinks that she'd have no chance if they were fighting on fair terms
Something often overlooked is Ned very nearly chops Jaime’s head off in their fight. This is for a few reasons mainly Jaime was mostly not fighting seriously because he didn’t believe Ned could have beaten Dayne, and secondly Ned isnt just a above average swordsman he’s a soldier through and through and he’s very experienced that one move probably ends most fights and you see Jaime’s eyes light up after he dodged it. Jaime realizes Ned’s much better than he though but that’s the thing with Ned he’s not an incredible swordsman he’s just a really damn good soldier
Ned is probably in the top 10 swordsman in the North... To be fair to Ned... Problem is there are excellent swordsman in other areas as well. But ya Ned does not get enough credit
I look at it a little differently. Ned was a great warrior, he just wasn't in the same league as guys like Dayne, Jaime and Selmy. No one was really. He was most likely among the best in that next tier after those three heavyweights. There were probably only a handful of other guys who could beat Ned one on one, like the Mountain, the Hound or Oberyn.
Yeah people forget that 2 of the people Ned Stark probably spared and trained with were; his big brother,( who went by the nickname of “the Wild Wolf”) And Robert The Goat Baratheon. Who he was best friends with since boyhood and probably trained with every day (and they trained under the watch of probably whoever the best trainers in the Eyrie were)
Fighting Gregor is like fighting Mike Tyson. Everyone boxer knows how to fight Mr. Tyson, dance around him for the first 3 or 4 rounds and take advantage of his lack of stamina. The problem with that is: you have to go three rounds with Mike fucking Tyson, and he is smart enough to know what your plan is. Knowing how to do something and having the skill to do so are very different things.
...Reminds me of a quote out of a documentary on the Roman Empire moons ago, "A legion's shield wall will break a Gaul horde in five minutes, but the legion needs to hold for those five minutes."
The year is 2087, and Liam and Tom just made a: Who Could and Couldn't Defeat The Mountain | Ultra, Mega, Super, All-Included, Director's Cut, Unrated, Bonus, Enhanced, Overhauled Edition.
Valyrian swords can cut through steel. Doesn't mean they cut through it like a hot knife through butter. It's still steel. You still gotta put their proper amount of effort into it. But pretty much every time when a steel sword meets a valyrian steel sword in a prolonged duel the normal sword is covered in nicks and dents while the valyrian steel remains pristine. So yes Vakyrian steel swords can cut into plate and wear it down.
You can also hammer plate until it loses its integrity. No one is going to just sit there and let you hack at them, and by the time you make it through, you'll be too exhausted to fight.
@@Kalenz1234 his point is it exactly what he said, no one is going to let you stand there and repeatedly hit their armor in roughly the same spot to get through it, and its incredibly unwise to remain with arms reach of the mountain, to say nothing of his thicker than normal armor.
@@Kalenz1234 That warhammers are more effective at hacking and with a valyrian steel sword, you would probably die of exhaustion before you properly hack or chop the full plate armour. What a warhammer does is blunt force, that can go through the armour and break your rubs even if the armour remains in tactm with a sword you do not have the weight or the power. If you use a valyrian steel in a prolonged dual to wear off plate armour and cut through it, it is probably more likely uou get so tired you die from a mistake, your better bet is to the nimble strategy of waiting for an opening.
@Kalenz1234 To knock them off balance and peirce the mail that fills the gaps, not just hit it till it dies. My point is that a supermetal wouldn't change armored combat that much. You can't get through a bronze breastplate with steel. Why would Valyrian steel be any different. And hammers and maces were more often used from horseback than on foot.
@35:59 A wooden practice [sword], with 0 armor, against multiple armored opponents with real swords. Can't skimp on giving Syrio credit where credit is due!
His other opponents were fodder. The only opponent of note was Ser Meryn and he broke his wooden sword in two swings. I doubt it would be any different with Gregor.
Syrio admitted to arya that he wasn't the best water dancer, as the sea lord chosen him on his outstanding awareness. While the dothraki elite possess dragonbone bows that can peirce armor. Drogo in the books is written as an absolute unit, tall, compact muscle, perceptive eyes, a panther in human skin.
@@TheFightHubb His fighting style involves the use of Rapiers. Rapiers arent much use against full plate armour especially of the kind Gregor wears. Yes I am not saying Syrio cannot get lucky and find an opening in his eye slit or throat slit. But that is extremely unlikely. Especially considering Syrio is a short man and Gregor is the tallest Man in the 7 kingdoms.
@saptarshisengupta8235 the eyes lit isn't the only weak point in his heavy armor, and syrios been in kings landing long enough to get a reputation, he's had plenty of time to measure up the weaknesses of the westerosi fighting styles and equipment with his trade mark perception. Give him a real sword and I think he dances around the mountain before before taking him down at the joints, dancing away and letting him bleed put. He shows us this strategy in his one fight, it fails on trant because he lacks a proper sword. And as he Saya to Arya "All men are made of water, do you know this? When you pierce them, the water leaks out and they die"
16:13 A battleaxe is useless against plate. Something that people need to understand is that you CANNOT cut through plate armour, even if you're the Mountain. A sword works because you can target the gaps, where there is only mail or perhaps no armour at all.
@31:50 While we're on the topic of book-to-show differences, the show version of the Mountain (or at least the last and most-appearing version of him,) is 6 feet 9 inches tall, since that's how tall Hafthor Julius Bjornsson is. The book version of the Mountain, meanwhile, is EIGHT feet tall! So not only is the book version of the mountain even bigger, heavier, and stronger than the show version, but that extra ~15 inches of height means an even-greater reach advantage (7 or 8 inches, unless he's one of the people like Michael Phelps where his wingspan is greater (or lesser) than his height,) that opponents have to overcome
@@3esln that's a tough one I'm going to say yes because I do think the mountain could eventually overpower the mountain even with the mountains speed advantage on the mountain
@@eh3mmbut if the mountain could tumble over the mountain perhaps the mountain could stand a chance at toppling the mountain. That is, if the mountain happens to bring a slightly less optimal tool set for dealing with the mountain.
@@eh3mmYes you make a good point there good sir. The Mountain’s same ability skills and agility will come down to luck at the end so at the end of the day the mountain can kill the mountain Lol
@4:22 "people prefer it when we reference the books." God yes, so so much. Not only because of the greater level of detail, but also because GRRM actually tells a good story, unlike D&D (see S7 and S8 for prime examples of what their writing is like with no GRRM to go off of,) and the books still have the potential to have a well-written ending
I still think Syrio would have a chance in that Bronn and Oberyn way. He's as smart as either of them, would have heard of Ser Gregor, and would know just how to beat him. The limitation would be his weapon, as you point out. The waterdancer sword is almost certainly a rapier. These evolved to be extremely deadly, probably the single best sword for a one-on-one duel ever made. But they evolved for exactly that--one on one, no armor, no shields, etc. So he'd be at a disadvantage there. But he's fast, he's extremely skilled, he's smart, and he knows both his capabilities and limitations. Gregor has the advantage, but I would never rule Syrio out as an automatic "no way he's winning," like I would, say, Jorah or Loras. Syrio would have a decent chance, especially if he somehow loaded the dice like Oberyn did with poison.
After reading the books i was under the impression that Brienne wasn't that great of a fighter. She starts with almost no experience (her first real kill comes quite late) and she often struggles a lot before winning a fight. And even though i know it wasnt 1 vs 1, she still loses to Biter
I dont know, when it comes to knowing how to fight big strong opponents, Ned did spend his youth sparring with Robert Baratheon in his prime. Who was probably the strongest fastest human in westeros at the time.
Greatswords as battlefield weapons were designed to break the enemy's pole weapons at the shaft and usually used against formations. They weren't really designed as anti-armor or to be wielded as regular swords. Blunt weapons were, however, ideal for anti-armor. But, like greatswords, they were much lighter than their tv and movie counterparts. Also, some blunt weapons like warhammers, had two "sides" one in hammer form, ideally to bend the armor and make it easier to penetrate. And the other in a point shape to deliver a piercing blow to the already weakend armor.
One thing. It would be a quite a feat for Jamie, being about 6 feet tall, to stab someone in the eye who is 8 feet tall. Also, moves like that are made when the opponent is right next to you and the opponent is too close to use long blades effectively. But that would mean to be in a grabbing range of the mountain, and that's instantly bad news. That's why Oberyn stayed back, until made a mistake of not.
I suppose that what might be important is that some people are mismatched against very specific opponents. I think Oberyn was well suited to fight the mountain because he would never feel the weight of his massive blade. The mountain is deadly because if he hits you, you are screwed. Oberyn was just too fast to make contact. I think there are fighters fast enough to deflect oberyn and defeat his foot work who also couldnt defeat the mountain because they are trained to cross blades and his sheer strength when doing so would knock their weapon out of their hand. I think Jamie would struggle against the mountain but could probably take oberyn.
Oberyn beat him in a fair match of skill The only reason Martell lost is because he was hooked by his lust for vengeance & getting the Mountain to admit to his crimes And even then, Oberyn did actually kill him, but he was revived using dark magic
I reckon Belwas would stand a good chance. He is a gladiator who therefore specialises in 1v1 combat. Also in the books it’s clear that along with his size one of his best attributes is his movement. He also has a Valyrian steel weapon which should be able to cut through the Mountains armour. I reckon it would be a good fight
So lets leave out the dragons themselves....... I mean Vermax probably wins let alone Vaghar. In the "can do it" category I think Daemon and Criston Cole are the main 2 who can win. Aemond has a rep but he is a teenager who relies on his dragon to win. Other Kinsguards like the Cargylls might have a dog in the fight, but I think it is clear that Cole and Daemon are the top of the skill pile in the HotD era.
@@spacecowboy5486 we have limited info on Cregan at this time. But I messed up by ignoring Harwin. He is big, reasonably skilled and is known for his strength. Depending on how good he is in a real fight (I don’t count the fisticuffs with Criston as he didn’t really fight back) he may have a shot.
Sandor, Younger Barriston, Young Robert, The Viper, Dayne, and Maybe Jamie, maybe Bronn. Gregor was a vicious brute. He’s got strength and durability maxed out. Sandor had the best chance, he has almost the same strength and durability, but is a better fighter than Gregor and is faster, and smarter.
Ice was a ceremonial weapon, likely only to be used in combat by Gregor himself and maybe the GreatJon. Ned would have been well trained by the Master at Arms at Winterfell since childhood and had actual combat experience. Book Ned is nearly 15 years younger than show Ned as well. In the books Ned and Rodrik Cassel were sat on their asses in the training yard of Winterfell by Bronze Yohn Royce a 6'8 beast of a man said to be as big and strong as Sandor. Bobby B's Warhammer was the perfect weapon against Gregor. They are designed to cause massive concussive damage beneath armour. Bobby B's was the biggest Warhammer ever made, a massive 2 hander yielded by a 6'6 powerhouse. He would have had reach, leverage and power enough to do extreme damage even through armour as thick as Gregor's. Interesting fact, Hafthor Bjornsson weighed about 370-380 pound during the show and gets up to 440 during his powerlifting comps so he out weighs book Gregor by 20 pounds. That's a seriously large human being.
Thank you for mentioning Garlan Tyrell. He gets left out discussions way too much. I would also be interested in seeing how the book version of both Areo Hotah and Qhorin Halfhand would fare.
If you open this up to the entire Ice and Fire lore. I think Meagor, Daemon Blackfyre, Shandoq the shadow, and maybe Daemon Targaryen could take The Mountain.
Agreed with a lot of the analysis on armor and weapon choices...the problem with story armor is it ACTUALLY plot armor....it is as strong or as weak as the story demands.... Jonah vs the Bloodrider...they displayed how effective plate armor is..... 4 fully plated knights rushing The Hound down stairs right before the Clegane Bowl and he carves through them in one swing a piece.
Fight ideas 1.Tormund Giantsbane vs Khal Drago 2.Daeron I vs Oberyn Martel 3.Daemon Blackfyre vs Jaimie Lannister 4.The DragonKnight Aemon Targaryen vs The Dawn of the Morning Arthur Dane vs Christen Cole
As a Brienne stan, I agree with that take. She is a fantastic swordswoman, even better with Oathkeeper, but the mountain leverages too much strength and reach. That being said, you guys did neglect to comment on her remarkable speed which is uncharacteristic for her size and strength. While this might not change the outcome ultimately, its clear she's got some skills *close* to bearing Gregor
Curious how Daemon would fare. I'm a show-only guy so idk how skilled he's portrayed in the books, but he's a battle-hardened Targaryen with a Valyrian sword who can take on multiple enemies at once.
Greetings - just something to the waterdancer sword - it can either be a triangular rapier (a bloody deadly thing to use against gaps in armor) or an Estoc - a super slim Longsword that is designed to pierce.
Another thing to take into account is the height of opponents. People under maybe 6 feet would have a real problem hitting the mountain in the neck or through the eye slits, unless he is looking down at them (probably not a good place to be). On the other hand, anyone fighting in the time of plate armor would rarely not carry a sword as their main weapon. Halberds, and the like should be standard, or at least available to any professional warrior.
I think the one that beats the mountain the most comfortably (except for young bobby b) is probably Daario. He has peak human physique and is quite a bit taller than 6". He can block many of Gregors strikes and does not have to dodge everything. Add that to the fact that he has probably fought more 1v1 fights and (fights in general) than ANY fighter in the known world of ASOIAF and NEVER lost. He has probably faced a ton of enemies with comparable size and fighting type to the mountain. Id argue Daario is the strongest fighter in the whole ASOIAF story and the only one who beats even Arthur Dayne due to the fact that he probably fought to the death 3-4 times a week and spent the rest practising.
Personally if I had to choose someone who could beat the mountain it would probably be Maelys the Monstrous. From the feats we have I’d be fairly confident that he’s just as strong as Gregor (if not stronger) he has just as much savagery as Gregor and due to his time as a sellsword in the disputed lands there’s a good chance he has far more experience than Gregor. So basically Gregor’s going to be fighting a more experienced version of himself which is a situation he’ll be completely unprepared for. The only issue is that I’m genuinely not sure what Maelys’ standard gear is (I think he wears plate but I honestly can’t remember)
syrios been in kings landing long enough to get a reputation, he's had plenty of time to measure up the weaknesses of the westerosi fighting styles and equipment with his trade mark perception. Give him a real sword and I think he dances around the mountain before before taking him down at the joints, dancing away and letting him bleed out. He shows us this strategy in his one fight, it fails on trant because he lacks a proper sword. And as he Says to Arya "All men are made of water, do you know this? When you pierce them, the water leaks out and they die"
Ser Barriston, for sure. He'd be a pretty smart bet against pretty much anyone. He could possibly lose, but you'd never be called stupid for betting on him.
Am a hard-core Ned Stark fan and I agree with this judgement. I do believe though as a man of honor if he knew his family was at stake that he would kaioken like Goku.
Axe beats a sword with armor on. Sword has to go through a slit because it has low amount of energy in the small tip. Axe has a great amount of energy in the tip so can actually damage plate straight on. Only downside for Victarion is being one handed rather than 2. But axe vs. sword isn't equal in armor. Without armor favours the sword.
As much as I love to see characters in this universe go against the mountains but I would love to see a video with lord of the rings or hobbit characters go against westros characters like how would Aragon be able to take down.
Loved this, seeing more quidditch and norbert would be awesome. Really like the idea of this pacing. Would love to hear your thoughts on the rest of the books!
Not that I'm claiming Jorah would make a big chance, but I think you do him a little dirty and underestimate him. He's very skilled and smart, I would even put him and the mountain in the same category qua skill. But the mountain's strengt puts him miles ahead and Jorah doesn't have the speed, dark killer instinct, or guile in a fight to make up for it, so he's deff out
Here's a cheaty one, Bran Stark. He was able to take control of Hodor, perhaps he could take control of Robert Strong. I know there'd be some competing magic and whatnot, but we never truly see what the upper limit of Brans warging powers are when it comes to people. I know Hodor is "simple", but I can't believe there's much left going on with Robert Strong either.
Who can defeat the Mountain: 100%: Sandor Clegane, Oberyn Martell (he did), Barristan Selmy in his prime, Sir Arthur Dayne Maybe: Bron, Jamie Lannister in his prime, Syrio Forell Never: John Snow, Rob Stark, Ned Stark, Arya Stark, Brienne of Tarth, Jorrah Mormond, Ser Lorras Tyrell
I do wonder what would've happened if Loras was sent instead of Beric. I can't imagine the Tyrells would side with the Lannisters at all of Gregor killed Loras...
"the times we have seen valyrian steel/dawn go through armour effortlessly in the story has been against light armour, not plate." thats wrong, the type of armour ned is wearing is called a "coat of plates" . it is essentially two layers of leather with a thin plate sandwhiched (?sp?) in between them. chuck in that you can clearly see he's wearing chain mail under that , then its not really all that light is it.
Prime Jaime, prime Barristan, Arthur Dayne, Oberyn, the Hound and probably that's it. I guess I would give Brienne, Drogo, prime Robert, prime Rheagar, Daemon, Criston Cole, Jon Snow, Bronn some chances but my money would be on the montain.
After finishing the first book, I asked my (now ex)wife if the Great John would have have been a match for the Mountain. She just laughed and said, "Nah, the Mountain would kill him."
These lists have made me realise that Robert Baratheon was actually pretty smart with his choice of weapon, even if it is oversized his hammer is great for dealing with plate armoured fighters and is very good at dealing with light or none armoured fighters. And i'm kind of curious why others don't use weapons like a Warhammer and maybe a Mace both were used but the knights the knights of Westeros are based on.
So the thing is the sword was never the main battlefield weapon in history. The spear was, with it's various combinations up to Poleaxes and Halberds. The sword was the backup weapon for everyone not in the Roman Legions who had a very specific tactic with their very short swords. Even knights tended to use essentially a spear in their lances. Hell even once guns became a thing the bayonet was basically a way to turn a gun into a spear. Swords on the battlefield became more useful in the 19th century when guns meant most soldiers forwent armour meaning their poor ability to penetrate it stopped being an issue. Their main value tended to be prestige before then, and that they make a decent defensive tool over other battlefield weapons. You can block with a sword better than an axe. In 1 on 1 fighting real warhammers and maces were very short range and so had limited utility against armour. By the time you were close enough to use them you had bigger problems. They also have issues with balance that make them hard to use by the nature of the weapon. What makes them useful is what gives them limits. Real knights going at it one on one tended to wrestle and use daggers for those reasons.
I reckon that the only way Ned wins is if he can do it in ten seconds. Ned will have a much better idea of how The Mountain fights than vice versa, it only takes one good hit to win. A bit like how Ben Kenobi beats Maul in Star Wars Rebels, just totally outplays him. If that doesn’t happen immediately, The Mountain overpowers him easily
Much less known character but I wonder about that “Then” wildling, he had a massive double headed axe and was pretty psycho. The guy who Tormond said “I f***ing hate then’s” about.
Pls do How Littlefinger Could’ve Won the Game of Thrones, Ik u already did one about him as king but it would be interesting to see your interpretation of how he would get there
George martin himself doesn't like the question "who is the best swordsman" Despite that he named 4 swordsman who could make a case for the best and these 4 are the clegane brothers, jamie lannister and loras tyrell, who george sayd himself is without question one of the best active swordsman of westeros. So if george himself says loras could win against the mountain... I'll also throw garlan tyrell and sandoq the shadow into the race... garlan isn't hailed as talented like his younger brother but the man has expirience and a crazy enough training routine that puts him above loras in my eyes. The other one, well... even if sandoq isn't a westerosi, i'd bet on the man who takes on wyverns for a living. Also, in the books, barristan being called "whitebeard is very fitting if you ask me😅
Depending on the Jaquen Hagar I think he could take the mountain. There’s most certainly a faceless man that could reliably dance around the mountain. They’re just a little too mysterious to know what he’s up to so one can’t really say confidently either way.
" This guy can beat the Mountain... because this guy DID beat the Mountain "
Hard to argue with that lmao
Point in Barristan's favor is that he literally did face his generations version of the Mountain, Maelys Blackfyre, and won.
On horseback
The thing is, Oberyn did beat the mountain, he did kill him, and Blood magic was used to revive him
@@Al4___ I'd say the fight between Oberyn and The Mountain ended in a draw
@@gurururuwarararara8164 the point is that oberyn wins and if he didn't showboat, he just lives. Oberyn was very much so capable of killing him without dying, but tragedy is as it always is.
@@brazzb761 Oberyn only managed to poison him thats about it.
@@gurururuwarararara8164 The thing is it's pretty apparent what the gap between their martial prowess and Oberyn pretty much exceeded him in all but strength
@@gurururuwarararara8164 id say you are dumb because if you wwatch the movie you can clearly see Oberyn can kill mountain if he wanted to, its his arrogance and unawareness that lead to a sneak attack lmao
When Brienne fights Jamie in the book she is pretty much in awe of his skill. Even though he had been a captive for so long prior to their fight.
Jamie also nearly kills Robb in the battle but he’s only stopped because his sword gets stuck in someone’s head after he cuts down like 15 guys
@@donovan4222Bro took out the majority of essentially what was Robb's Kingsguard.
@@ratiounkn3210 not to mention Jamie Is dueling her whilst his hands are chained together. And if I’m not mistaken she’s in full plate mail and he’s in rags.
@@ratiounkn3210 yeah Jamie is starved, has spent months in a cage (so in really poor physical shape), chained up, and unarmoured. Brienne is basically fresh and in full plate and she's still stunned by his skill. If I remember correctly she even thinks that she'd have no chance if they were fighting on fair terms
She had to fight him to exhaustion
Something often overlooked is Ned very nearly chops Jaime’s head off in their fight. This is for a few reasons mainly Jaime was mostly not fighting seriously because he didn’t believe Ned could have beaten Dayne, and secondly Ned isnt just a above average swordsman he’s a soldier through and through and he’s very experienced that one move probably ends most fights and you see Jaime’s eyes light up after he dodged it. Jaime realizes Ned’s much better than he though but that’s the thing with Ned he’s not an incredible swordsman he’s just a really damn good soldier
Better than a man at arms, worse than most champions.
@@perennem_equitem_57 that’s a pretty fair point to place him in terms of general power scaling.
Ned is probably in the top 10 swordsman in the North... To be fair to Ned... Problem is there are excellent swordsman in other areas as well. But ya Ned does not get enough credit
I look at it a little differently. Ned was a great warrior, he just wasn't in the same league as guys like Dayne, Jaime and Selmy. No one was really. He was most likely among the best in that next tier after those three heavyweights. There were probably only a handful of other guys who could beat Ned one on one, like the Mountain, the Hound or Oberyn.
Yeah people forget that 2 of the people Ned Stark probably spared and trained with were; his big brother,( who went by the nickname of “the Wild Wolf”)
And
Robert The Goat Baratheon. Who he was best friends with since boyhood and probably trained with every day (and they trained under the watch of probably whoever the best trainers in the Eyrie were)
8:25, Sandor did beat the Mountain, he just lived through the vital shots bc of what Qyburn did to his body after Oberyn poisoned him
Nvm I thought you were talking about Sandor plus Beric
Fighting Gregor is like fighting Mike Tyson. Everyone boxer knows how to fight Mr. Tyson, dance around him for the first 3 or 4 rounds and take advantage of his lack of stamina. The problem with that is: you have to go three rounds with Mike fucking Tyson, and he is smart enough to know what your plan is. Knowing how to do something and having the skill to do so are very different things.
Everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the face.
...Reminds me of a quote out of a documentary on the Roman Empire moons ago, "A legion's shield wall will break a Gaul horde in five minutes, but the legion needs to hold for those five minutes."
@@Jwsponky Yeah that wasn't too hard for them by the looks of it.
@@xtron1234 Eh... so so ish, they did eventually conquer the Gauls, but it wasn't a steamroll.
@@Jwsponky Read about like any pitched battle between Romans post-Marian reforms and the Gauls. 9/10 times the Romans completely demolish the Gauls.
The year is 2087, and Liam and Tom just made a: Who Could and Couldn't Defeat The Mountain | Ultra, Mega, Super, All-Included, Director's Cut, Unrated, Bonus, Enhanced, Overhauled Edition.
*Thom scribbles down the title idea for 2087* 😂
@@TheFandomeClipsI doubt I'll live long enough to see it but I look forward to seeing it 😂
release the Fandome Cut
And Martin has just released A Dream of Spring too.
😂😂😂😂deadass
I really wish we would've gotten at least one flashback of the battle of the trident. Seeing a fully balls to the wall Bobby B swinging that hammer.
Number 1 fighter who could beat The Mountain - a healthy Eddie Hall
Number 1 fighter who can't beat The Mountain - an injured Eddie Hall
Healthy Eddie Hall tried and failed. Not enough cranberry juice.
😂😂
I literally came here to look for Eddie comments.
@@TheStraightestWhitest You don't understand, he was very dehydrated!
@@LukasEhrlich Very very very... dehydrated.
Valyrian swords can cut through steel.
Doesn't mean they cut through it like a hot knife through butter.
It's still steel. You still gotta put their proper amount of effort into it.
But pretty much every time when a steel sword meets a valyrian steel sword in a prolonged duel the normal sword is covered in nicks and dents while the valyrian steel remains pristine.
So yes Vakyrian steel swords can cut into plate and wear it down.
You can also hammer plate until it loses its integrity. No one is going to just sit there and let you hack at them, and by the time you make it through, you'll be too exhausted to fight.
@@potatolord2196 Yes, warhammers WERE used as a counter to plate armour. What's your point?
@@Kalenz1234 his point is it exactly what he said, no one is going to let you stand there and repeatedly hit their armor in roughly the same spot to get through it, and its incredibly unwise to remain with arms reach of the mountain, to say nothing of his thicker than normal armor.
@@Kalenz1234 That warhammers are more effective at hacking and with a valyrian steel sword, you would probably die of exhaustion before you properly hack or chop the full plate armour. What a warhammer does is blunt force, that can go through the armour and break your rubs even if the armour remains in tactm with a sword you do not have the weight or the power. If you use a valyrian steel in a prolonged dual to wear off plate armour and cut through it, it is probably more likely uou get so tired you die from a mistake, your better bet is to the nimble strategy of waiting for an opening.
@Kalenz1234 To knock them off balance and peirce the mail that fills the gaps, not just hit it till it dies. My point is that a supermetal wouldn't change armored combat that much. You can't get through a bronze breastplate with steel. Why would Valyrian steel be any different. And hammers and maces were more often used from horseback than on foot.
It truly says something that the Mountain is the one opponent everyone else is compared against.
Can you do a game of thrones what if “ if Oberyn beat the mountain in Tyrions trial “
@@AlexMitchell-ct8tt I second that request
Nice topic.
I feel like Tyrion would still have flee the capital, to Dorne with Oberdyn
Oberyn himself wouldn't @@davidlewis5312
@@davidlewis5312 if Oberyn lived the sand snakes storyline also wouldn’t happen
“We’re sorry for the Bobby biase”
Me: HELL YEAH MORE BOBBY
@35:59 A wooden practice [sword], with 0 armor, against multiple armored opponents with real swords. Can't skimp on giving Syrio credit where credit is due!
His other opponents were fodder. The only opponent of note was Ser Meryn and he broke his wooden sword in two swings. I doubt it would be any different with Gregor.
Syrio admitted to arya that he wasn't the best water dancer, as the sea lord chosen him on his outstanding awareness.
While the dothraki elite possess dragonbone bows that can peirce armor. Drogo in the books is written as an absolute unit, tall, compact muscle, perceptive eyes, a panther in human skin.
@@saptarshisengupta8235lmfao syrio obviously wouldn’t use a wooden fucking sword in a trial by combat🤦♂️
@@TheFightHubb His fighting style involves the use of Rapiers. Rapiers arent much use against full plate armour especially of the kind Gregor wears.
Yes I am not saying Syrio cannot get lucky and find an opening in his eye slit or throat slit. But that is extremely unlikely. Especially considering Syrio is a short man and Gregor is the tallest Man in the 7 kingdoms.
@saptarshisengupta8235 the eyes lit isn't the only weak point in his heavy armor, and syrios been in kings landing long enough to get a reputation, he's had plenty of time to measure up the weaknesses of the westerosi fighting styles and equipment with his trade mark perception. Give him a real sword and I think he dances around the mountain before before taking him down at the joints, dancing away and letting him bleed put. He shows us this strategy in his one fight, it fails on trant because he lacks a proper sword. And as he Saya to Arya "All men are made of water, do you know this? When you pierce them, the water leaks out and they die"
16:13 A battleaxe is useless against plate. Something that people need to understand is that you CANNOT cut through plate armour, even if you're the Mountain. A sword works because you can target the gaps, where there is only mail or perhaps no armour at all.
That’s why pure brute strength is not enough.
Other characters that can beat the Mountain are Lancel Lannister , Osmund Kettleback and even Moonboy for all we know
I wouldn't put it past Kettleblack
@@debater452 Hot Pie 🥧
_insert Captain America “I understood that reference” gif_
@@debater452 gods what a stupid name
@@TheStraightestWhitest Three cheers for the pie that was promised!
@31:50 While we're on the topic of book-to-show differences, the show version of the Mountain (or at least the last and most-appearing version of him,) is 6 feet 9 inches tall, since that's how tall Hafthor Julius Bjornsson is. The book version of the Mountain, meanwhile, is EIGHT feet tall! So not only is the book version of the mountain even bigger, heavier, and stronger than the show version, but that extra ~15 inches of height means an even-greater reach advantage (7 or 8 inches, unless he's one of the people like Michael Phelps where his wingspan is greater (or lesser) than his height,) that opponents have to overcome
The real question is... can a mountain beat the Mountain?
@@3esln that's a tough one I'm going to say yes because I do think the mountain could eventually overpower the mountain even with the mountains speed advantage on the mountain
@@eh3mmbut if the mountain could tumble over the mountain perhaps the mountain could stand a chance at toppling the mountain. That is, if the mountain happens to bring a slightly less optimal tool set for dealing with the mountain.
@@eh3mmYes you make a good point there good sir. The Mountain’s same ability skills and agility will come down to luck at the end so at the end of the day the mountain can kill the mountain
Lol
Could Hill of house blegange beat the mountain?
Hey Gregor... Stop hitting yourself
Jaime also wouldn't fuck around because it's Tyrion's life on the line.
@4:22 "people prefer it when we reference the books." God yes, so so much. Not only because of the greater level of detail, but also because GRRM actually tells a good story, unlike D&D (see S7 and S8 for prime examples of what their writing is like with no GRRM to go off of,) and the books still have the potential to have a well-written ending
The only hypothetical fight that interests me is Maelys the Monstrous vs The Mountain
I still think Syrio would have a chance in that Bronn and Oberyn way. He's as smart as either of them, would have heard of Ser Gregor, and would know just how to beat him. The limitation would be his weapon, as you point out. The waterdancer sword is almost certainly a rapier. These evolved to be extremely deadly, probably the single best sword for a one-on-one duel ever made. But they evolved for exactly that--one on one, no armor, no shields, etc. So he'd be at a disadvantage there. But he's fast, he's extremely skilled, he's smart, and he knows both his capabilities and limitations. Gregor has the advantage, but I would never rule Syrio out as an automatic "no way he's winning," like I would, say, Jorah or Loras. Syrio would have a decent chance, especially if he somehow loaded the dice like Oberyn did with poison.
@@roentgen571 plus we never did see him die… 🤔
After reading the books i was under the impression that Brienne wasn't that great of a fighter. She starts with almost no experience (her first real kill comes quite late) and she often struggles a lot before winning a fight. And even though i know it wasnt 1 vs 1, she still loses to Biter
I dont know, when it comes to knowing how to fight big strong opponents, Ned did spend his youth sparring with Robert Baratheon in his prime. Who was probably the strongest fastest human in westeros at the time.
ned is too slow. Jiu Jitsu would need to exist in GoT for him to win
Good to see all these combined into one video so I can just watch them all at one go
The Legend of Gin Alley, Karl Tanner
Also, I would add Qhorin Halfhand, which became an even better swordsman after losing half of his hand and also Cregan Stark.
The three eyed Stark boy, Bran, enters into Gregor´s mind and makes him stab himself to death.
Ser Hugh of the Vale easily beats the fodder that is the Mountain
Tyland Lannister too. And Jason.
LMFAO!!!
I still can't watch the end of the fight of Oberyn and Gregor. It's too traumatic 😢
Greatswords as battlefield weapons were designed to break the enemy's pole weapons at the shaft and usually used against formations. They weren't really designed as anti-armor or to be wielded as regular swords. Blunt weapons were, however, ideal for anti-armor. But, like greatswords, they were much lighter than their tv and movie counterparts.
Also, some blunt weapons like warhammers, had two "sides" one in hammer form, ideally to bend the armor and make it easier to penetrate. And the other in a point shape to deliver a piercing blow to the already weakend armor.
Arthur Dayne as well as Barrister Selmy in his prime would have spanked the Mountain
One thing. It would be a quite a feat for Jamie, being about 6 feet tall, to stab someone in the eye who is 8 feet tall. Also, moves like that are made when the opponent is right next to you and the opponent is too close to use long blades effectively. But that would mean to be in a grabbing range of the mountain, and that's instantly bad news. That's why Oberyn stayed back, until made a mistake of not.
The one thing I’ll always love is when a flower took down a mountain in the first season in a joust.
I absolutly despise this old myth of plate armour being that cumbersome and slowing you that much down!
bro…Wun Wun punching the mountain through the earths crust
You forgot the most likely person to defeat the mountain. The one and only Hot Pie
I suppose that what might be important is that some people are mismatched against very specific opponents.
I think Oberyn was well suited to fight the mountain because he would never feel the weight of his massive blade.
The mountain is deadly because if he hits you, you are screwed. Oberyn was just too fast to make contact.
I think there are fighters fast enough to deflect oberyn and defeat his foot work who also couldnt defeat the mountain because they are trained to cross blades and his sheer strength when doing so would knock their weapon out of their hand.
I think Jamie would struggle against the mountain but could probably take oberyn.
Fighting the mountain is like fighting a Dark Souls boss at a low level, sure you can do it, but a single slip will instantly kill you.
Oberyn beat him in a fair match of skill
The only reason Martell lost is because he was hooked by his lust for vengeance & getting the Mountain to admit to his crimes
And even then, Oberyn did actually kill him, but he was revived using dark magic
How about Tywin? He could simply order the Mountain to kill himself. Have you thought about that? No, you only think about yourself.
You forgot that Victarion is unkillable. Even George can’t find a way to stop the Stump That Was Promised.
Hobo With a Shotgun vs The Mountain?
@@WhiteNoBeard471 what a reference
@@WhiteNoBeard471 why would you give the mountain a shot gun ....
I reckon Belwas would stand a good chance. He is a gladiator who therefore specialises in 1v1 combat. Also in the books it’s clear that along with his size one of his best attributes is his movement. He also has a Valyrian steel weapon which should be able to cut through the Mountains armour. I reckon it would be a good fight
What about HOTD era characters versus the Mountain? Start branching this out lmaoo
@@mistplayzop candidates might be: Harwin, Daemon, Crispy Cole, Cregan and Sandoq the Shadow if he still counts
So lets leave out the dragons themselves....... I mean Vermax probably wins let alone Vaghar.
In the "can do it" category I think Daemon and Criston Cole are the main 2 who can win. Aemond has a rep but he is a teenager who relies on his dragon to win.
Other Kinsguards like the Cargylls might have a dog in the fight, but I think it is clear that Cole and Daemon are the top of the skill pile in the HotD era.
Daemon and criston would do the same as oberyn but I'm not sure about anyone else
@@spacecowboy5486 we have limited info on Cregan at this time. But I messed up by ignoring Harwin. He is big, reasonably skilled and is known for his strength. Depending on how good he is in a real fight (I don’t count the fisticuffs with Criston as he didn’t really fight back) he may have a shot.
@@mistplayzop Criston wins, everyone else gets buttblasted into the shadow realm. Daemon fanboys can cry now.
Sandor, Younger Barriston, Young Robert, The Viper, Dayne, and Maybe Jamie, maybe Bronn.
Gregor was a vicious brute. He’s got strength and durability maxed out.
Sandor had the best chance, he has almost the same strength and durability, but is a better fighter than Gregor and is faster, and smarter.
If you asked The Mountain who he’d like to fight least, he’d say Barristan Selmy.
Ice was a ceremonial weapon, likely only to be used in combat by Gregor himself and maybe the GreatJon. Ned would have been well trained by the Master at Arms at Winterfell since childhood and had actual combat experience. Book Ned is nearly 15 years younger than show Ned as well. In the books Ned and Rodrik Cassel were sat on their asses in the training yard of Winterfell by Bronze Yohn Royce a 6'8 beast of a man said to be as big and strong as Sandor. Bobby B's Warhammer was the perfect weapon against Gregor. They are designed to cause massive concussive damage beneath armour. Bobby B's was the biggest Warhammer ever made, a massive 2 hander yielded by a 6'6 powerhouse. He would have had reach, leverage and power enough to do extreme damage even through armour as thick as Gregor's. Interesting fact, Hafthor Bjornsson weighed about 370-380 pound during the show and gets up to 440 during his powerlifting comps so he out weighs book Gregor by 20 pounds. That's a seriously large human being.
Sharp in forecasting our hunger for ASOIF as Valyrian steel , my dear Friends . Excellent content as always 🍷
Thank you for mentioning Garlan Tyrell. He gets left out discussions way too much.
I would also be interested in seeing how the book version of both Areo Hotah and Qhorin Halfhand would fare.
Clearly you forgot the most underrated knight in all of Westeros- Sir Pounce. The mountain may be big but legend has it he has a colossal cat allergy
The Pounce that was Promised!
If you open this up to the entire Ice and Fire lore. I think Meagor, Daemon Blackfyre, Shandoq the shadow, and maybe Daemon Targaryen could take The Mountain.
See I initially would’ve said Greyworm but you’re absolutely right
Agreed with a lot of the analysis on armor and weapon choices...the problem with story armor is it ACTUALLY plot armor....it is as strong or as weak as the story demands....
Jonah vs the Bloodrider...they displayed how effective plate armor is.....
4 fully plated knights rushing The Hound down stairs right before the Clegane Bowl and he carves through them in one swing a piece.
Fight ideas
1.Tormund Giantsbane vs Khal Drago
2.Daeron I vs Oberyn Martel
3.Daemon Blackfyre vs Jaimie Lannister
4.The DragonKnight Aemon Targaryen vs The Dawn of the Morning Arthur Dane vs Christen Cole
I am JUBILANT right now. Like "look mom I'm on TV". Thanks for including my suggestion:)
As a Brienne stan, I agree with that take. She is a fantastic swordswoman, even better with Oathkeeper, but the mountain leverages too much strength and reach.
That being said, you guys did neglect to comment on her remarkable speed which is uncharacteristic for her size and strength. While this might not change the outcome ultimately, its clear she's got some skills *close* to bearing Gregor
Curious how Daemon would fare. I'm a show-only guy so idk how skilled he's portrayed in the books, but he's a battle-hardened Targaryen with a Valyrian sword who can take on multiple enemies at once.
...He would also have precisely zero qualms about 'cheating' and just sicing the fire breathing badger that is Caraxes on the Mountain.
Greetings - just something to the waterdancer sword - it can either be a triangular rapier (a bloody deadly thing to use against gaps in armor) or an Estoc - a super slim Longsword that is designed to pierce.
Another thing to take into account is the height of opponents. People under maybe 6 feet would have a real problem hitting the mountain in the neck or through the eye slits, unless he is looking down at them (probably not a good place to be). On the other hand, anyone fighting in the time of plate armor would rarely not carry a sword as their main weapon. Halberds, and the like should be standard, or at least available to any professional warrior.
A full sword is at least four feet long.
12:55 Dawn is great* sword in the books not a long sword. The difference is not insignificant in a fight.
What about Daemon? I also think Tormund deserves more consideration given the proper amount of preparation 🤷♂️
I think the one that beats the mountain the most comfortably (except for young bobby b) is probably Daario.
He has peak human physique and is quite a bit taller than 6". He can block many of Gregors strikes and does not have to dodge everything. Add that to the fact that he has probably fought more 1v1 fights and (fights in general) than ANY fighter in the known world of ASOIAF and NEVER lost.
He has probably faced a ton of enemies with comparable size and fighting type to the mountain.
Id argue Daario is the strongest fighter in the whole ASOIAF story and the only one who beats even Arthur Dayne due to the fact that he probably fought to the death 3-4 times a week and spent the rest practising.
Personally if I had to choose someone who could beat the mountain it would probably be Maelys the Monstrous. From the feats we have I’d be fairly confident that he’s just as strong as Gregor (if not stronger) he has just as much savagery as Gregor and due to his time as a sellsword in the disputed lands there’s a good chance he has far more experience than Gregor. So basically Gregor’s going to be fighting a more experienced version of himself which is a situation he’ll be completely unprepared for. The only issue is that I’m genuinely not sure what Maelys’ standard gear is (I think he wears plate but I honestly can’t remember)
syrios been in kings landing long enough to get a reputation, he's had plenty of time to measure up the weaknesses of the westerosi fighting styles and equipment with his trade mark perception. Give him a real sword and I think he dances around the mountain before before taking him down at the joints, dancing away and letting him bleed out. He shows us this strategy in his one fight, it fails on trant because he lacks a proper sword. And as he Says to Arya "All men are made of water, do you know this? When you pierce them, the water leaks out and they die"
Ser Barriston, for sure. He'd be a pretty smart bet against pretty much anyone. He could possibly lose, but you'd never be called stupid for betting on him.
Am a hard-core Ned Stark fan and I agree with this judgement. I do believe though as a man of honor if he knew his family was at stake that he would kaioken like Goku.
Axe beats a sword with armor on. Sword has to go through a slit because it has low amount of energy in the small tip. Axe has a great amount of energy in the tip so can actually damage plate straight on. Only downside for Victarion is being one handed rather than 2. But axe vs. sword isn't equal in armor. Without armor favours the sword.
I don’t care Tormund beating the mountain with shear crazy
As much as I love to see characters in this universe go against the mountains but I would love to see a video with lord of the rings or hobbit characters go against westros characters like how would Aragon be able to take down.
The amount of ads in this video could beat the mountain
Loved this, seeing more quidditch and norbert would be awesome. Really like the idea of this pacing. Would love to hear your thoughts on the rest of the books!
Not that I'm claiming Jorah would make a big chance, but I think you do him a little dirty and underestimate him. He's very skilled and smart, I would even put him and the mountain in the same category qua skill. But the mountain's strengt puts him miles ahead and Jorah doesn't have the speed, dark killer instinct, or guile in a fight to make up for it, so he's deff out
Here's a cheaty one, Bran Stark. He was able to take control of Hodor, perhaps he could take control of Robert Strong. I know there'd be some competing magic and whatnot, but we never truly see what the upper limit of Brans warging powers are when it comes to people. I know Hodor is "simple", but I can't believe there's much left going on with Robert Strong either.
Such a fun video. Loved every second of it. Super entertaining content! Can't wait for the next vid.
Who can defeat the Mountain:
100%: Sandor Clegane, Oberyn Martell (he did), Barristan Selmy in his prime, Sir Arthur Dayne
Maybe: Bron, Jamie Lannister in his prime, Syrio Forell
Never: John Snow, Rob Stark, Ned Stark, Arya Stark, Brienne of Tarth, Jorrah Mormond, Ser Lorras Tyrell
A worthy opponant would be the knight with two swords who fights ned in the flashback!
Arthur Dayne. He’s in this one ☝️ -Thom
@@TheFandomeClipssorry ,went right to the comments!lol
I can’t believe you said Dawn was a long sword. In the books it’s clearly a great sword.
Honorable mentions to those who can goes to Blood Raven, Daemon Targaryen, Sir Dugan the Tall, Christin Cole, and Ragar Targaryen.
I had absolutely zero clue that it was beric in the first scene being told to search for the mountain, the actor changes really fuck me up in shows
I do wonder what would've happened if Loras was sent instead of Beric. I can't imagine the Tyrells would side with the Lannisters at all of Gregor killed Loras...
"the times we have seen valyrian steel/dawn go through armour effortlessly in the story has been against light armour, not plate."
thats wrong, the type of armour ned is wearing is called a "coat of plates" . it is essentially two layers of leather with a thin plate sandwhiched (?sp?) in between them.
chuck in that you can clearly see he's wearing chain mail under that , then its not really all that light is it.
My Nan could beat the mountain by offering him a brew.
Prime Jaime, prime Barristan, Arthur Dayne, Oberyn, the Hound and probably that's it.
I guess I would give Brienne, Drogo, prime Robert, prime Rheagar, Daemon, Criston Cole, Jon Snow, Bronn some chances but my money would be on the montain.
Imagine the Mountain wielding Ned Stark’s sword Ice. 😂😂😂
I binged all of your videos today and now there’s none left :(
Selmy would carve the mountain into pebbles.
My champion is pycell. The undefeated champion who is yet to leave an opponent alive.
After finishing the first book, I asked my (now ex)wife if the Great John would have have been a match for the Mountain. She just laughed and said, "Nah, the Mountain would kill him."
These lists have made me realise that Robert Baratheon was actually pretty smart with his choice of weapon, even if it is oversized his hammer is great for dealing with plate armoured fighters and is very good at dealing with light or none armoured fighters.
And i'm kind of curious why others don't use weapons like a Warhammer and maybe a Mace both were used but the knights the knights of Westeros are based on.
So the thing is the sword was never the main battlefield weapon in history. The spear was, with it's various combinations up to Poleaxes and Halberds. The sword was the backup weapon for everyone not in the Roman Legions who had a very specific tactic with their very short swords. Even knights tended to use essentially a spear in their lances. Hell even once guns became a thing the bayonet was basically a way to turn a gun into a spear.
Swords on the battlefield became more useful in the 19th century when guns meant most soldiers forwent armour meaning their poor ability to penetrate it stopped being an issue. Their main value tended to be prestige before then, and that they make a decent defensive tool over other battlefield weapons. You can block with a sword better than an axe.
In 1 on 1 fighting real warhammers and maces were very short range and so had limited utility against armour. By the time you were close enough to use them you had bigger problems. They also have issues with balance that make them hard to use by the nature of the weapon. What makes them useful is what gives them limits.
Real knights going at it one on one tended to wrestle and use daggers for those reasons.
I reckon that the only way Ned wins is if he can do it in ten seconds.
Ned will have a much better idea of how The Mountain fights than vice versa, it only takes one good hit to win.
A bit like how Ben Kenobi beats Maul in Star Wars Rebels, just totally outplays him.
If that doesn’t happen immediately, The Mountain overpowers him easily
Ned was a proven knight whose ability was witnessed by many other knights.
I believe I commented the same on another of your videos but, I really appreciate the use of Gary Oldman in Leon the Professional in this. 😃
Umber really is a bad ass to laugh after he loses what I can only assume to be 2 fingers of his dominant hand.
Much less known character but I wonder about that “Then” wildling, he had a massive double headed axe and was pretty psycho. The guy who Tormond said “I f***ing hate then’s” about.
I heard a bear climbed over the mountain once. They sang songs about it.
Pls do How Littlefinger Could’ve Won the Game of Thrones, Ik u already did one about him as king but it would be interesting to see your interpretation of how he would get there
Prime Bobby Baratheon vs prime Barristan Selmy- who wins???
Close fight but I’d personally bet on Bobby B. His warhammer and incredible skill with it is just such a perfect counter to just about any knight
George martin himself doesn't like the question "who is the best swordsman"
Despite that he named 4 swordsman who could make a case for the best and these 4 are the clegane brothers, jamie lannister and loras tyrell, who george sayd himself is without question one of the best active swordsman of westeros.
So if george himself says loras could win against the mountain...
I'll also throw garlan tyrell and sandoq the shadow into the race... garlan isn't hailed as talented like his younger brother but the man has expirience and a crazy enough training routine that puts him above loras in my eyes. The other one, well... even if sandoq isn't a westerosi, i'd bet on the man who takes on wyverns for a living.
Also, in the books, barristan being called "whitebeard is very fitting if you ask me😅
Depending on the Jaquen Hagar I think he could take the mountain. There’s most certainly a faceless man that could reliably dance around the mountain.
They’re just a little too mysterious to know what he’s up to so one can’t really say confidently either way.