At 28:05 when you said "This little brown loop here about 7 cm long" surely you meant to say "this not so little loop here from the henley block to the isolator to the SPD about 60cm long".
Wait... shit. I might have got my facts wrong. Reg 534.8 does include the line length to the OCPD. Couldn't you have piped up before I uploaded this instead of pissing on my Saturday evening??
It's an excellent point, and you have thoroughly ruined my drunken evening plans! Well, not the drunken bit. It does raise the question though about these new SPD boards we're buying. Most installations I'd retrofit these into are not likely to comply it seems; even a short tail like the one I've used here will screw the maths. I've thrown open the question on Twitter and pinned this thread, so let's see what the world says!
@@dsesuk The diagram at 27:20 shows how it should be done, it's just a shame that it isn't remotely practical. The add-on box with the SPD needs to have its own Henley block for the Line connection. Just whack in a Wago, no-one will know, apart from your 10,000 subscribers.
Atleast you understand the issueand the problem with the dno plenty of RUclips electricians don't even know what the dno is. We know it's a health and safety issue for pulling the fuse. And if there not supplying isolators or liking to come out because it's not profitable. A company I worked for had an agreement with the dno for pulling cutouts all you needed was a G39 working in vicinity of the dno certificate, a face Shield some mappa gloves. This problem could easily solved by selling this training and agreement to electricians, everyone is happy they make money and not at a loss and life is easier for electricians. The dno and niceic need to sit down and add it as a package into the sign up.
Cut the seal. it's in your way. you're not stealing (abstracting) electricity. It's up to them to prove it. But insurance issues when the 100 yr old service head disintegrates... i don't have an opinion on
That was a great rant about the DNO and suppliers. All very true and equally frustrating as a electrician! The number of times I was on hold because the customer support had no idea what an isolator was became annoying! Great video as always.
@@dsesuk mate the strongest thing is admitting that, you put your self in way of scrutiny and people like me who pick this up not that we do it to be horrible just want you to be the best you can be sometimes the guys here are your support and here to support you
I asked Scottish Power to fit an Isolator for me before a CU upgrade & the engineers kept failing to turn up (5 appointments over about 6 months!), they were going sick etc. To cut a long story short It turned out all the engineers were subcontractors only used to fitting meters & were not qualified electricians, they didn't have a clue about isolator switches. The guy who did it eventually had to send his supervisor's boss a photo & get him to tell him what to do. Then send another photo so he could tell him what he had done wrong... The good bit was they had to pay me for every missed appointment so I made a tidy profit. Very interested to hear about Haste.
Good knowledgeable labor costs a lot. Low skilled labor is much cheaper and more common since most work is fairly basic. So it generally takes a bit to find a good knowledgeable technician for troubleshooting or very technical issues.
I work for a dno, definitely agree an isolator should be fitted probably would of even saved the meter installer time. As for the blocks being sealed its not so that electricians cant open them up, its company’s procedures to show their installer was the last person in them and is therefore responsible for any issues such as loose connections, once seals are gone its clear someone has opened them up so the responsibility is no longer the suppliers.
US Sparktrician here. In FL we get huge amounts of lighting. We have a client (radiation cancer treatment center) that had the transformer outside their building hit. The surge into the building exploded the MOVs inside the steel case of their SPD and bulged the cover out about 1/2". It also took out a UPS on a CT scanner and some of the under-voltage controls in the feed panel. Lighting can do a huge amount of damage when I strikes near a house. The pole behind my house was hit about 5 years ago, destroyed the phone pedestal at the base of the pole melted the wire from there to my house. The phone company has a small SPD in their demark box on my house that was smoked also. My house has a footer ground with #4 bare solid copper and then goes to (3) 10' copper clad rods in a 10' triangle and then to my 120' deep steel well casing. SPD in my service and in my media box. No damage in my house. My neighbors lost TVs and other electronics. SPDs and grounding go great together.
Thanks Jonathan. We just get to enjoy the rain without the light show at this end for the most part. I imagine it's a whole other headache in warmer and more humid climates!
Great video as per usual David S. Can I just say that all the hard working, self employed sparks out there are right behind you, when it comes to common sense with pulling DNO fuses! The whole industry is running with so much lag, another delay just makes us all look incompetent and unskilled. Great install and it's good to mention knockouts some boards are just shit for that.
Cheers James. I don't pull fuses often, only as necessary. If I'm changing out a CU and the client isn't prepared to pay Haste's (reasonable) price for an isolator installation, then I'm not likely to take on the job. I've enough to do without cheapskates or people not prepared to have the job done to my standards! It's curious about the knockouts on this one though. I presume it was an existing enclosure on their production line that they figured would just work for this application.
Another great video, agree with you on the knockouts here, it’s really annoying but I assume you’re right as in it’s an existing enclosure they have used. I’d just use the old step cutter to enlarge the hole and curse it whilst I was doing it...rather then curse tails trying to bend them, hate doing that it’s always a pain! Keep up the good work and content mate as always 👍🏻
@@dsesuk Dave, it's prob the same metal enclosure the company bought from another manufacturer to save on tooling costs and mass production to keep "their own" costs down, it's how the world works now...sad but true..but it may come to bite them on their own bum!..nice idea though, i may need to sell some to my customers :-)
I completely agree about pulling fuse. But the seal is there because if the meter installer gets audited and they check everything is correctly tightened up correctly, if they leave loose connections and don’t seal the blocks up then they could say someone else may have been at it. Where as if they seal them up they know it was that person that left the loose connections.
Blocks are sealed for engineer to say it was all tight at point of installation. If there's a problem later due to insufficient tightness and seals are missing. There's been tampering and ownership is off meter engineer. I agree that an isolator could have been installed but generally engineers will only install if switch gear is outdated and likely to need updating in due course. Isolators are installed after meter equipment on all new connections as standard however
@@dsesuk I totally agree about DNO's Dave, why oh why...when they decided to install smart meters did they not decide to include Main Isolators?..easy job, updates customers supplies, ... oh yeah...money" a £12 Wilex 100A from screwfix would save us sparkies a migrane and guilt trip, but they want the "nieve" among us to call them out for a quick buck! to install one... ;-) I think as long as you DO NOT CUT the meter seals they are fine, that's the only way to stop abstraction without some know how ;-)
speaking to the electricity suppliers are a fu@$ing nightmare , no contractors switch ever and no clue on the phone as to why you need fuse out!? meters fitted in late 90s had contractors switch, they hate putting switch in.
3:58 Could you not remount the Main switch on the rail to the left of the Surge Protector - thus giving you the straight run you require for the tails?
Brilliant David, 100% agree with you about provision for isolation being made available for installers. We've all being saying the same thing for years. On a side note, it's a bit strange we have a test label for RCD's but not one advising how often the window on an SPD should be inspected.
Don't put any ideas in their heads Alvin! I'm sure 18th Edition Amendment 1 will demand yet another massive label to be applied to every SPD installation, cryptically advising these things are checked every fifth Wednesday!
This whole 'fit metal enclosures debacle to reduce fires from arcing tails would have been much more simply solved by mandating twin screw terminals on main switches-- meters, cutouts, DNO isolators, Henley blocks, old wylex boards, CEFs M2 boards all have two screws per tail
Not to mention certain manufacturers actually complying with the British standard and not just sticking the mark on their boards that failed the hot wire test. How there was never a recall on those products I do not know. But the attitude seems to be, deal with the symptoms and not the cause. If the dick heads installing boards actually did it correctly we would still be using plastic boards, but because it was effecting London, we all have to bow to the capital and do something about it. Thank you London fire brigade. And you limp wristed cockneys.
KMF fused isolators are the fucking worst with their single screw. The amount of those that have just shit out their tails when touched because of the single shitty terminal held in by wank plastic pins (gosh, that was a lot of cursing) blows my mind. I've even broken the plastic terminal retainer when trying to replace the dropped tails and get the cover (which the electrician failed to install properly) on safely.
Shower pull cord switches had 2 screws and cooker switches too , I have changed lots of burnt out shower pull cords because of loose connections. They probably were tight before they were shoved up into the back box and twisted making them come loose 😕
*intermediate earth terminal*.. Explained very nicely to comply 😊.. I just picked up on the conversation below about how the tail from the Henley blocks are also included as part of the wiring lengths short enough to comply with..
Its a pain that most DNOs fail to properly provide isolation that we can use access and use in compliance with the E@WR. Personally SSE allowed me to go to the local engineering department and pick up temporary seals that allowed me to cut the DNO seals and put in the DP isolator! Good work!
David, congratulations on 10k. watched several of your videos, and have learned bugger all about electrical work. But I have picked up a few useful tips - I now drink my Special Brew in a martini glass, with an olive. It's that sort of sophistication that sets you apart from the rest of the channels. Well done.
someone I know often removes covers without turning off the power, and I'm pretty certain they removed a light switch without turning the power off at one point (or was it installing a socket) oh, and one thing they were planning on doing is adding an additional DB so that our house would have dual RCDs (at the moment it has 1 RCD, and the lighting circuits and the smoke detector circuit don't go through the RCD)
Good Video David, as to the DNO, i'm going to be synical here, and say I think the omission of a isolator to provide safety for electricians is not their first thought, I believe its what they can charge a customer for a call out is their only reason.
unfortunatly the busbar comes out the live on the left hand side ! so you would have to connect it to the negative terminal marked on the main switch , i have had the same problem with what looks like the same box from another brand , nice box but not thought through for the user!
Do what you gotta do it seems. I prefer to get an isolator installed where my planning allows, but I'm not going to break into a sweat where I need act quickly and have been given no other quick and cost-effective reasonable option.
I rang the supplier in a similar case, been pulling fuses for years, they just told me to crack on even after reading back their snotty label that was attached. Will just pull the fuse and carry on.
Congrats on 10k, keep em coming. I second your rant, and the look on a client's face when you say you can't do a CU change as I can't isolate the power is usually enough for me to say. "Don't worry about it, I'll sort it" ...... Yoink!!!!
I don't undertake many CU changes, only a handful per year, and I prefer to get an isolator installed via Haste for a planned job, but I showed that on a video once and had someone commenting that they worked for a DNO and weren't even happy with that arrangement, even though Haste are permitted to work on their kit. Whatever you do, you can't win it seems.
@@dsesuk Really? What was his point???!! Need to find someone local that can do that for me, Haste don't operate in my area. I ask every spark I come across, they all give me the same blank look and say, what don't you just pull the fuse. Talking of CU changes, I have one coming up and there are 12 mcbs, and 25 circuits, how would you approach that? I was thinking of adding a few extra MCB's to split some up but aside from a space issue the client does not want two CU's, use some Wagos to join them together seems a bit janky, putting them into the same MCB not much better . Might be able to squeeze an enclosure in next to CU but the wires are a bit short and I'd have to extend them which just seems stupid as well. Blah.
@@oliverriall I think his point was just to sound like he knew better and be the big man! That's an awful lot of circuits. Personally, I don't like to common up circuits in MCB's, although I may combine a few to get the numbers down. An example would be where a doorbell or understairs light are on their own individual circuits; I might splice them into the ground floor lighting circuit rather than have them sitting on their own breakers. Biggest board I fitted (domestically single phase) was a CP Fusebox model I showed in another video. Twenty usable ways, 19 of which I outfitted with RCBO's for that installation. Not a bad price either.
This is why I like the Hungarian setup. The main fuse is an MCB which the client can turn off. The only downside is that it's usually 10-32A type B. Mine is 25 amp.
Fully agree regarding use of isolator. Most only fit when asked simply because its not considered. Fit as little as possible as keeps overall costs down if they dont have to. Think the only way this is solved is to get this put into the industry regulations making it a requirement to provide customer isolation facilities for all supplies.
Doable, but then I'd have to replace the busbar that comes with it as the line is on the left of the main switch. It's a question of how much I want to reconfigure something that should really roll out of the factory ready to go.
David Savery Electrical Services Good point, I wish some of these manufacturers would just stand back for fucking 30 seconds and think about it ....but they don’t !!!
@@dsesuk Your right mate they should have seen that. you don't wanna be messing around trying to fix a problem that shouldn't even exist in the first place.. love your vids keep up the good work its muchly appreciated and CONRATULATIONS on 10k that's fannytastic :) also do you know how the device stops the surges? Im gunna guess there's a large metal oxide varistor in there, from what you said about there being aa window to view the condition of the devices arse (blown out or not) lol anyways again cool vid thanks Dave..... Steve
I add run capacitors in parallel with compressor motors etc. because I found it makes your utility meter honest! They measure VA not watts! Even the new electronic ones. You must experiment for the lowest amp draw with 1,2,4,8,16mfd caps for the best resonance. Could help you earn more business.
A previous council inspection by a Napit registered electrician advised me on PME installations you are not allowed to export the earth i.e. connect the armour of the SWA to earthing terminal in CU, if the armoured cable is for example, going to an outbuilding, it has to be TT'd at the outbuilding end, and feed protected with 100ma S type time delay RCD. The armour should be connected only at the end that is connected to earth rod. However still no excuse for not glanding it properly at the cu end!
That's interesting Neal, I've always done it the other way around - earth the SWA from the supply end up to the termination point at the outbuilding, then TT the outbuilding, but I suppose the armour would be better earthed from the rod end. If they have TT'd the far end of these SWA's here, and I doubt it considering the workmanship at this end, then as you say, they should have glanded them properly at the CU, otherwise you have the armour floating around inside the CU here possibly at a different potential to the MET in the same board.
Why does a fuse even need sealing? It would take enormous bollocks to connect from the fuse holder to anything to abstract power. Even then it would be a struggle to get the happy-herb growing circuit wire in the fuse holder as well as the actual fuse surely ?
@@GeorgeStyles Not just for abstracting but as a stamp to say for sure that the MOP or jointer was the last person onsite and therefore liable for any faults left. If an electrician cuts it, they kind of remove some of that liability from the DNO/supplier. But on the abstracting side of things, people do abstract power in every way you can imagine including jointing (with varying success levels) to the phase cable from the street or pole. They rarely care whether the fuse is left intact or doing its job - especially if for a grow, where loads can exceed 63/80/100A. Seals aren't really there for that as criminals will crime regardless.
@@OkenWS aha! Cool... Jointing hahha. Anyway glad David didn't do it hot as the video would have had a solid 15 mins of him scratching his nuts instead of 5 :) on a serious note, that makes sense, thanks :)
Hi David, RE problems with knockout for the tails. Is it necessary to use the 32mm knockout for these tails? As far as I'm aware, the only reason we use these in modern boards is to remove the risk of eddy currents & heating in the steel between line and neutral tails; potentially carrying 100A. But surely we don't need to worry about electromagnetic effects on these tails which are in parallel to the current carrying tails. These conductors will only carry excess voltage/current for the fraction of a second that the surge lasts. So unless I've missed something, I would just use a couple of 25mm stuffing glands. AS a follow on to this; I have wished for ages that the CU manufacturers would replace the 32/40mm knockout with 2 x 25mm knockouts for std stuffing glands, but with the intervening strip of steel also precut as a knockout. If properly designed, the two glands would cover the space between the holes perfectly, so no IP issues and life much simpler for all.
Hi Gerald. No, tails glands aren't necessary as such, just a good way to keep them away from sharp metal edges and through the same hole. Something like the Wiska TKS32 would perhaps have been better for this job, but I didn't know they even existed until it was pointed out to me after this video! A large stuffing gland can also work, although as you say it would be nice if the manufacturer would think more about how we installers approach getting their kit onto the walls. Hager provide a plastic insert with their boards, it would be nice if others did the same.
Great video Sorry if silly question but installing the spd seperate from the dB does it not only protect the incoming supply and not the outgoing circuits, as when the spike accurs by a cusuner product on consumer side its already damaged the equipment by the time it reaches the spd via the Henley blocks, I ask this as spd still confuse me in there protection methods
Stephen, that is not a silly question. That is, in fact, an excellent question. And y'know, now you've got me wondering about the effectiveness of this installation, because if the surge is coming from something like the pool pump, then it's on the final circuit side and in the Hager board before it gets to my SPD.... I guess time will tell whether the SPD, installed remotely to the man CU, acts quickly enough to prevent damage, but thank you for ruining my day.
@@dsesuk I do apologise was not my aim it's an ongoing battle in my own mind to where to position an spd for any afficiant effect to then justify the additional cost and justification to a customer
@@stephenlaw8860 No apology necessary, it's an excellent point. To be honest, I'd expect a rise in voltage from either the supply or final circuit side to get into the whole installation pretty damn quickly, and I'm surprised these short wiring lengths are a consideration at all as I can't see them making much difference, but I guess the IET know what they're talking about. Watch this space, and we'll see if problems persist!
David Savery Electrical Services Maybe I can give you back your peaceful weekend... That SPD with all the overcurrent and isolation is finally just a pair of MOVs wired to ground. So if a spike comes from an inductive load (swimming pool pump, heat pump etc.) to the CU, it will have the sting taken out of it by the MOVs that are effectively in parallel with the bus bars and should protect the whole installation.
Dave! I agree with everything you say regarding cutting seals/etc and DNO complications. Cut them/improve existing installation like we do. It's going to hard to ever beable to syncroise an installation where it goes smoothly with renewables/heat pumps/solar battery/fuse board upgrades etc and us as electricians need to carry out works agreed with clients in a timely Manor with little inconvenience so we have to do what we have to do. Fully qualified electricians would be given the green light if there wasn't an on going tampering/unqualified persons doing bad practice. Napit recently apposed a ban from electrians cutting seals. This says something to me
Did you verify with the previous customer that the SPD stopped their lights blowing? Or did they maybe just stop calling you back to report the lights blowing as you said you won't cover them?
You're right, I've made an assumption that problems are resolved on that last site, but I never said I would no longer honour the warranty; I recommended the SPD be installed to rule out surge events as the cause. If problems persist at that site, I would expect them to report back to me as their lamps are still under warranty, especially as the SPD is in place.
@@dsesuk I always state on the invoice that LED lighting is covered by manufacturers warranty, but my labour is not, so still chargeable ;-) new policy. However, I have fitted LAP lighting which has 3Year warranty and had very little failures, but when i do, still get my call out.
As a meter installer the reason we seal outgoing connection blocks is just to prove that we have tighten up the connections, no problem with someone chopping those seals just means it's not my responsibility if those connections have a future problem. Personally I fit isolators wherever I can on meter installations as I'm not paying for them my company is. Also I most meter installers I know don't give a shit if seals are missing, we just do our job and seal up again, as long as there's no sign of bypass it no problem to us.
Also I used to fit for the company that installed that meter and the policy was to fit connection blocks if the outgoing tails were not the correct colours (most commonly both the same colour). Personally I always said it made more sense to just stick in an isolator. Some meter company's have some bullshit practices.
couldnt you have removed the SPD and shifted the isolator and MCB along and then stick the SPD on the right hand side of the isolator ?? the length of conductors would still be under half a metre but the tails would be neater ???
Firsteerr Lastmwwew think dave was just meaning it should come with the knock outs the other way rather than him having to alter himself. But you could sort it by doing it your way just involves bit more work.
It could be modified, but really, should I have to rearrange it out of the box? Also, I'd have to change the busbar as the polarity of the main switch is such that line comes from the left terminal. Or I could reverse polarity on the switch, it doesn't make any difference after all, but that would look odd and wouldn't comply with how Lewden designed it.
I know you shouldn't have to and more thought should have gone into the design but on this occasion, I would have used a cone bit and opened out the smaller hole on the right to accommodate the main tail gland.
Really useful explanation on how to achieve compliance with the refs when installing SPDs. Totally agree with you on the lack of isolation. The Smart Meter spec should have mandated a consumer-accessible isolator.
One thing to remember is you can be prosecuted under the 1971 criminal damage act by the DNO For cutting cutout or meter seals. People working on the public electricity supply have to be authorised and have a authorisation pass to work on the system. There are certain Dangers in pulling cutout fuses, ie, If the cutout is defective and explodes and you are not wearing appropriate PPE you could be seriously injured.
This is true, but the client should have the option of being able to safely isolate their own installation without the cost and hassle of arranging a call out from an authorised engineer (currently £218 inc VAT with Western Power). The smart meter rollout should have mandated a means of isolation integral to the meter to address older properties which currently lack the means. Some people just can't afford that cost. Others won't pay it, so cowboy installers who leave no paper trail get the work. The network operators place street sparkies in this position and nobody ever corrects it - not government, not trade bodies, not meter/service head manufacturers.
@@mrelectronicsdude WPD down by me can't seem to even inspect their own network for glaring safety faults on a semi-regular basis. Surely they don't have the resources. I get the impression they've been almost entirely working response jobs for some time now, at least in my area.
@@dsesuk At last my suspicions were correct about you, you're just a bloody pervert, you are still my favourite funny & knowledgeable spark on RUclips. BTW Congrats on the 10k... Regards from Ray the old sod from North West Wales..
What a brilliant video. Love all the explanations, fantastic David. Super duper ranting. And your contribution to all who follow you is second to none! 👍👍
I have been there my self one time I was fitting a isolator switch then am being asked why be a so called NIC guy. I told him the fuse box is being changed very soon as an kitchen extension is being built. He then chats crap so I asked him a basic cable calculation he walks away.
3:31 'bending thick tails' - either flip the devices on the DIN rail or refit the DIN rail the other way up. Suddenly you'll have the larger knockout just where you want it ! Vertical position of DIN rail not important. Flip it over it will still be the same position to fit the hole in the cover. The box and cover - mount upside down while the equipment stay right way up.
If I flipped the DIN rail, the cover would go on upside down and the lid would be left hanging open. I could rearrange the items on the DIN rail, but then I'd have to scrap the busbar as the line would be coming out the wrong side of the switch... unless I reversed polarity at the switch and scratched out the L and N markings. I could also cut out a larger hole on the right side of the box. All these things can be done, but why should I have to do them on a new product that's made for this job?
@@dsesuk Cure the open lid by removing it - or mount the whole thing the other way up - so the kit inside is upside down. Put a gas cooker in here decades ago and part of the install was removing the glass lid and jamming the lid-operated gas valve open.
This is very useful information, cheers David. I will give this a go as one pub garden festoon lighting install is constantly popping LED lamps, yet other installs using the same LED lamps have had very few failures, (the nominal voltage on this site is between 236V - 239V)!
Cheers. This might be anecdotal, but desperate times call for desperate measures. And why are the troublesome warranty sites always the ones that are furthest away?? You can also get a Type 3 SPD which is just for protecting particular items of equipment, so that may be easier and cheaper than installing something at source.
Thank you for the videos amount of things I learn as per your experience I am great full of. I was wondering as in future videos are you able to share more test results for more detailed information regarding some of the reading. Thank you
Hi Dave isn't it customery to fit a spd next to the main double pole switch so it protect all the mcbs down stream just a question not a criticism love you channel
Thanks Darren, and I'd like to volunteer for the job! If you and every other sparkie in the country would like to mail me a modest £5 union membership charge, I'll get right onto it from my office in Tahiti!
Amen on the Henley blocks. I went round to my grandmother's after the British Gas smart meter cowboy had been and found they had removed perfectly serviceable Henley blocks on the consumer side of the meter and re-routed the customer tails for no logical reason, other than as you say, making future changes more difficult.
Great, so the item of client side equipment that you could have used to add an additional board has been removed! I'm sure it looks neater... for what it's worth!
If the armoured sheath is earthed at one end that is sufficient, doesn't matter which end it's done at if it's only being used as mechanical protection and not the cpc
It depends on what's going on with these SWA's though. If they go to outbuildings which have been TT'd and the SWA is connected to the rod, then it shouldn't be floating about at the CU as it may be a different potential to the MET and CPC's inside the CU enclosure. Looking at the shonkyness of them though, I suspect they're not earthed at either end. Whichever way, a diligent installer wouldn't have left them flapping around like this.
“A biscuit tin of wank” will now be my preferred phrase on site when describing some rough and bodged work. Mr Savery I thank you for extending my vocabulary 🤣 Also that alarm🚨Every fucking time!🤦🏻♂️🙄🤣
Noted the text about "Torx" not "Torque". In this case, you could really screw with the pedant's head up by starting to refer to it as a 6-lobe screwdriver head, or a hexalobular internal screwdriver head. Torx is a brand name :-) ISO 10664
I'm not an electrician (which will be obvious from my query!) but I asked a local spark about what cable to use if I wanted to put a socket in my shed (which is 25 metres from my house) and I told him I'm not burying the cable, I'm running it along my fence. He said Arctic flex as it doesn't degrade. Now the question is - can I run this cable to a mini consumer unit as I want to put a light in the shed along with the socket, or have I got to run armoured cable? You'll probably think I'm a tool for asking a daft question!
When the DNO pulled my main fuse to check the line back the transformer on a PME system, he never fitted the seal back as it isnt an enforced rule that they have to be their, unless the property owner has been suspected of tampering with the meter, and they stick a seal with a serial number on it for later reference to see if it has been pulled again. Suspected weed farms mainly!
Nice video. Could it have been connected from the Henley blocks to the new double pole switch and then to the consumer unit, in turn providing an isolation point for future works? I have not worked in the UK for over 12 years, I was 16th edition trained and live in Oz now.
Great video Dave showing the everyday problems that electricians have to work with ,maybe use the 19 strand flexi tails so much easier the earth fly lead is also a pain with the lid
Top video 👍👍👍👍 the wylex SPD you were recommended in the REC enclosure cannot be used in a domestic installation as its plastic & classed as switchgear. The SPD you are installing is in line with the current regs as it is with non combustible enclosure. I tried when AMD 3 came out to put a REC2 enclosure with a 100ma s type to protect a TT domestic install & was told by wylex they could not be used in domestic Situation. I’m not saying I agree with the regulations, but we are meant to follow them. Pulling suppliers fuses, they should allow sparks to do a short course & have a telephone number to ring for resealing. But they don’t, so the fuse is pulled. I always wear electricians gloves & covers with a face mask. Yes even in a domestic situation, I regard myself as taking due care, should something happen. My Elecsa inspector was quite happy with me using the protective gear. I always reseal the fuse & meter afterwards.
That's interesting Patrick as I would have fitted the Wylex had it been cheaper, and I would have discussed the issue of it being in a plastic enclosure. If I get Haste to install an isolator, they're still putting in plastic ones. It seems to be one rule for supplier kit, another for consumer kit. Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with an isolator/SPD in a plastic box so long as it was installed correctly and torqued. I don't see why it's acceptable at one end of a
The metering company & the DNO apparently work to different regs. I’ve had all this out with the tech helpline & wylex some time ago. The metering company can install the plastic enclosure, but we cannot. If we were allowed to use the REC 2 enclosure with a 100ma S type RCD, this would solve all the problems with metal boards on TT earthing systems. It’s all crazy in my opinion, but who am I to argue.
Pulling the main fuse is a safety issue , if it goes wrong and explodes in your face you can get 2000 amps passing before your eyes . If you want to pull fuses use gloves and a face shield to protect yourself .
Apart from some most useful informatio, guidance and advice (THANK YOU DAVID) - I must however comment (with much humorous self-satisfaction) your somewhat surreptitious insertions, (every now and then - completely under the wire, as it would appear) full range of uncensored expletives >> which NOT ONLY adequately emphasizes your getting PISSED OFFwith some entity >>> But TOTALLY CRACKS ME UP, (from all the way here in CAPE TOWN). Subscribed, liked and shared!! (THANK YOU DAVID!!) ♥️👍😘
a) The first five seconds of this video were spoken like a true construction worker. Bravo! b) That fancy pants Metrel of yours had me viewing your video on it. Nice piece of kit. c) We used to cut the seal of a meter as we deemed necessary. And after we finished whatever we were doing, we would call in to the city or REA (Rural Electric Association) to have the seal replaced. What's wrong with that system? And I've no idea why they would seal the Henley blocks (aka "Distribution block" here). What's the purpose in that? The way that the SPDs were made here (back in the day at least) was that it had a threaded hub with tails coming out of the hub and you would attach it directly to the side of the panel. Our panels can go up to 42 circuits (2 for the mains, 40 for the branch circuits), so plenty of room - usually. But in an old installation you are bound to find that a smaller panel has been installed. So I like your little SPD box, nice and tidy, and doesn't require space in the main panel. As for wiring things hot, any overhead service that we did had to be wired up hot at the weatherhead (at least for houses). Culls out the slow learners... The last panel swap that I did for a friend, I did hot (2006 maybe?). Why bother the inspector for a trivial little thing like a new panel? (that, and I'm not licensed here in Tennessee :) ) It was an old FPE ("Federal Pacific Electric", or "Flaming Piece of Equipment" as we refer to them) that had finally lived up to its legacy and had started to catch on fire. The open wiring that you have there is different that what we do, ours has to be protected. Although in really old houses you may see that the service has been run in "SE" (Service Entrance) cable. And you might come across a surface-mounted meter (like yours) in such an installation. Not better, not worse, just different. I kinda like your panels though, and I do like that everything is on a GFCI. And what is a "ring circuit"? Do you go out from the panel and then back in with redundant feeds? What you call a "trunk" we would call a "home run" here, and we would run just the one home run. We don't do tests or re-inspections here, rather we would get called out if there was a problem. Not sure if that's better or worse. And I am sure that it is the same over there as it is here, once your neighbor finds out that you are an electrician (retired or not), you are their new best friend. :)
The ring circuit concept is indeed... interesting, and it has it's reasons for being which is basically down to a copper shortage after WW2! Instead of wiring two or three low-current radial socket circuits, a house could have one higher current (30A) circuit wired in a thinner cable that looped from the board, around all the outlets and back again to provide two paths for sharing the load current. For some reason it caught on and they're still installed by many today, although on an installation like this it's pretty ridiculous and makes the job harder. Two radial circuits would have sufficed here. The sealing of the distribution blocks was, I'm told, so that if there was a fire following a loose connection, then our version of the REA wouldn't be liable if they found the seals had been cut. It just indicates whether they were the last ones in there tightening terminal screws or not which makes sense I guess. One thing we're behind on which you chaps have been using for years are AFDD's. When I was visiting my sister in Seattle in 2017, I noticed her FPE board had such, but it's all new (domestically speaking) here, and so far I haven't installed or seen a single one out in the wild.
@@dsesuk Ah, I get it. And you would know right away if you had one of your trunk returns on the wrong phase. :) Now I understand, and as long as you can cut the seal on your Henleys when you need to, it's no big deal. Here, everything before (up to the weatherhead or the junction box for underground) and after the meter belongs to the electrician. The seal is just to keep (most) people honest. In the old days our meters could be installed upside down to make them run backwards. Cheats would flip the meter upside down for one week out of the month to get a 50% discount on their monthly electric bill. I had an old electrician tell me that on his house that he built in Texas he had installed a Tee inside the space between the soffit and the roof penetration (where you normally wouldn't be able to see it). From there he tapped into the feeders before the meter, and fed a subpanel in his attic that powered his AC unit from. I don't know that I believe him, he was given to telling "Tall Texas Tales" as often as breathing, but his idea would definitely work. If your sister has an old FPE panel I would encourage her to get it replaced. FPE lost their UL listings on pretty much all of their breakers at one point or another. The standard non-joke back in the day about FPE breakers was that you could use a 15 amp breaker to run your 200 amp welder. And I'm sure that for many FPE breakers this would have been entirely possible. Honestly, there is no point in buying different sizes of FPE breakers, it's not like they are going to trip anyways. And to make matters worse, they also have their feeders overheat more often than what I've seen in other makes of panels. That said, there are a ton of FPE panels out there silently chugging along with no problems at all. As for AFDD breakers, I was all set to install them on my parents house, but the AFDD breaker incorporates a GFCI as well (your RCD), and their house was wired with their home runs in 14-3 and 12-3 meaning that two circuits shared a common neutral. I would have had to rip that out and redo the home runs in 14-2 and 12-2. Now if you want to see how it's done elsewhere, wire a house in Mexico. The walls are cinder block, and the ceilings and floors are poured concrete. They lay in plastic water pipe before the pour, and stub the ends down to where the switch or plug would be mounted on the wall. I call it "water pipe" not to be mean, but because it is the exact same stuff that they use for water pipe. Saves time at the supply house, clever. You pop your knockout in the ceiling box (mind you that you don't remove the KO, you just flip it up. No wasted time here) and stub *all* of your runs into the ceiling box. Makes for a cramped box once you pull your wires. And connectors for your conduit? Who needs stinking connectors? Just be sure to stub it long enough into the box so the pipe doesn't get kicked out by the guy pouring the concrete. When you make your connections you have a myriad of choices as to how you do this. Twisted wires with black, white, red, or blue tape - your choice. What you can't do is to buy a wirenut outside of a pack from Truper that contains 4 of the size that you need, and 16 that are too small. On the other hand, at 20 Pesos it's only a bit more than a dollar for the entire pack. I wired my first, and last, house in Mexico last year and soldered the connections together and taped them up (how it was done long before I was an apprentice, and it's held up well for nigh on 100 years). Not how we would do it stateside, but as I remind folks here, the "N" in NEC stands for "National". The saving grace is that you can't burn one of these houses down. Maybe they are on to something?
Is it not the fact that LED lights in general are crap, and that everyone rushed into buying them!!!! The amount of LED security lights ive replaced is unbelievable!!!! And the LED spot lights I have had problems with have been the push fit connectors on the transformers!!!! There a nightmare in general. The way I deal with LED is to put GU10 in, and have just the LED lamp in, which sorts that problem out. And for security lights I installed halogen lights and put a LED lamp in so as it was just the lamp that went not the complete fitting. That sorted that out, but unfortunately, they have just about stopped them. So its back to installing complete security light fittings, and the one I put on my house, did not work at all. So back to the shop, got my money back and got one from Wiks instead and that did the job. LED lights should be able to withstand surge currents.
Another top vid Dave. Not sure about the spds protecting the led lamps. More likely a rise in voltage over a period of time than a spike in voltage. Out in the sticks the nominal voltage can rise and fall way above the limits. Interesting to see if it cures your problem though, keep us posted 🙂👍
David... thank you.. You not only explain things very well you elaborate on the subject matter and round of any sharp edges as it where. Yo and a few other on you tube are my first port of call when faced with something im not sure about. obliged ..
This installation, while I’m sure will do something, seems like the big capacitor in a wall wart energy saver. I was expecting the tails to run through the new DB, and for it to effectively be an isolator with integrated surge protective device... Oh, I see JW suggested the tails through the SPD enclosure with on the Twitters...
That would be the better way of doing it. You can install an SPD in parallel like this, but I've made a mistake with this one which is explained in the updated description!
the correct driver for henleys is 4mm hex, also the most common hex is H15. i'll happily send you the multiple sets of drivers i bought trying to find that out minus H4 and T15
I brought up the fact that smart meters did not have built in isolators prior to them being installed (a few years ago) with SELECT (who sit on some fancy committee) and the answer back was that it was decided against built in isolators as it would cost another £3-£4 per meter !
@@dsesuk The financial part IMO was that the DNO's have a nice little number fitting isolators at a cost of up to £140. If the meters had isolators they lose a revenue stream
@@baldelectrician Yes, I've heard that one too. It's nuts if true. "We'll deliver power, but we won't give them the opportunity to safely remove that power". Fucking cheers!
Hi David, Love the video's, is "the biscuit tin of wank" a technical term? and if so where can I get one. Couldn't agree more about the isolation problem with DNO's and supply companies.
In your defence regarding the incoming main supply fuse, I needed work doing on my fuse box and all I did was call my electricity supplier and the conversation was .." There is no seal on my main fuse, is it ok to pull it out while the work is done? It was like that when I bought the house as there has clearly been a re-wiring done at some point" and they simply answered, " yeh, it's fine" lol this was pre-(not so)smart meter. I had a clock style meter back then.
![MASSIVE Tester [MFT] REVEIW 2023 with david savery](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GLEdnavToJ8/mqdefault.jpg)
At 28:05 when you said "This little brown loop here about 7 cm long" surely you meant to say "this not so little loop here from the henley block to the isolator to the SPD about 60cm long".
Wait... shit. I might have got my facts wrong. Reg 534.8 does include the line length to the OCPD. Couldn't you have piped up before I uploaded this instead of pissing on my Saturday evening??
@@dsesuk Where would be the fun in that?
It's an excellent point, and you have thoroughly ruined my drunken evening plans! Well, not the drunken bit. It does raise the question though about these new SPD boards we're buying. Most installations I'd retrofit these into are not likely to comply it seems; even a short tail like the one I've used here will screw the maths. I've thrown open the question on Twitter and pinned this thread, so let's see what the world says!
@@dsesuk The diagram at 27:20 shows how it should be done, it's just a shame that it isn't remotely practical. The add-on box with the SPD needs to have its own Henley block for the Line connection. Just whack in a Wago, no-one will know, apart from your 10,000 subscribers.
The great man himself agrees with you: twitter.com/jwflame/status/1178030120830951425
What a bummer.
Great rant. Totally agree with you 👍
Thanks Chris. Together we can bring this industry down from the inside!
Wait which rant?
Hey, stop watching Davids videos and get back to making your own!
Nah, you guys are alright
Atleast you understand the issueand the problem with the dno plenty of RUclips electricians don't even know what the dno is. We know it's a health and safety issue for pulling the fuse. And if there not supplying isolators or liking to come out because it's not profitable. A company I worked for had an agreement with the dno for pulling cutouts all you needed was a G39 working in vicinity of the dno certificate, a face Shield some mappa gloves. This problem could easily solved by selling this training and agreement to electricians, everyone is happy they make money and not at a loss and life is easier for electricians. The dno and niceic need to sit down and add it as a package into the sign up.
Cut the seal. it's in your way. you're not stealing (abstracting) electricity. It's up to them to prove it. But insurance issues when the 100 yr old service head disintegrates... i don't have an opinion on
That was a great rant about the DNO and suppliers. All very true and equally frustrating as a electrician! The number of times I was on hold because the customer support had no idea what an isolator was became annoying! Great video as always.
That's right Chris, it's all about getting through to the right person and the right call centre!
Congrats on the 10k; You're one of the best sparkies on YT and you should be proud!
Dunno about that. Certainly the most foul-mouthed.
@@dsesuk "one of", ha ha
@@dsesuk you are the best in my opinion aswell i like others your just so down to earth and switched on lol
You're very kind to day so gents, but I have cocked up on this one, so do check the updated video description!
@@dsesuk mate the strongest thing is admitting that, you put your self in way of scrutiny and people like me who pick this up not that we do it to be horrible just want you to be the best you can be sometimes the guys here are your support and here to support you
Well spoken David about the isolator.👍
It is ridiculous that all smart meters wernt designed with built in isolators
I asked Scottish Power to fit an Isolator for me before a CU upgrade & the engineers kept failing to turn up (5 appointments over about 6 months!), they were going sick etc. To cut a long story short It turned out all the engineers were subcontractors only used to fitting meters & were not qualified electricians, they didn't have a clue about isolator switches. The guy who did it eventually had to send his supervisor's boss a photo & get him to tell him what to do. Then send another photo so he could tell him what he had done wrong... The good bit was they had to pay me for every missed appointment so I made a tidy profit.
Very interested to hear about Haste.
Sounds like a shambles Robin. I'm glad to hear you weren't out of pocket on it, but I imagine your client wasn't too impressed with the delays!
i don't understand how someone would be qualified to fit a meter but not an isolator. The skills are the same. Weird.
Good knowledgeable labor costs a lot. Low skilled labor is much cheaper and more common since most work is fairly basic. So it generally takes a bit to find a good knowledgeable technician for troubleshooting or very technical issues.
@@jondonnelly3 they have no knowledge of electricity 1 week course on fitting smart meters and they are out messing with your mains supplies
I work for a dno, definitely agree an isolator should be fitted probably would of even saved the meter installer time. As for the blocks being sealed its not so that electricians cant open them up, its company’s procedures to show their installer was the last person in them and is therefore responsible for any issues such as loose connections, once seals are gone its clear someone has opened them up so the responsibility is no longer the suppliers.
Thanks Stuart, that makes sense.
Your presentation style is unique, amusing but also very highly informative. Thank you David, congrats on 10K, hope to see you achieve 1M.
Thanks John. I'm not sure there are that many people wanting to hear me use bad language about electrical installations!
US Sparktrician here. In FL we get huge amounts of lighting. We have a client (radiation cancer treatment center) that had the transformer outside their building hit. The surge into the building exploded the MOVs inside the steel case of their SPD and bulged the cover out about 1/2". It also took out a UPS on a CT scanner and some of the under-voltage controls in the feed panel. Lighting can do a huge amount of damage when I strikes near a house. The pole behind my house was hit about 5 years ago, destroyed the phone pedestal at the base of the pole melted the wire from there to my house. The phone company has a small SPD in their demark box on my house that was smoked also. My house has a footer ground with #4 bare solid copper and then goes to (3) 10' copper clad rods in a 10' triangle and then to my 120' deep steel well casing. SPD in my service and in my media box. No damage in my house. My neighbors lost TVs and other electronics. SPDs and grounding go great together.
Thanks Jonathan. We just get to enjoy the rain without the light show at this end for the most part. I imagine it's a whole other headache in warmer and more humid climates!
Great video as per usual David S. Can I just say that all the hard working, self employed sparks out there are right behind you, when it comes to common sense with pulling DNO fuses! The whole industry is running with so much lag, another delay just makes us all look incompetent and unskilled. Great install and it's good to mention knockouts some boards are just shit for that.
Cheers James. I don't pull fuses often, only as necessary. If I'm changing out a CU and the client isn't prepared to pay Haste's (reasonable) price for an isolator installation, then I'm not likely to take on the job. I've enough to do without cheapskates or people not prepared to have the job done to my standards! It's curious about the knockouts on this one though. I presume it was an existing enclosure on their production line that they figured would just work for this application.
I pull main fuses out to connect up my growing lamps before the meter 😯
Another great video, agree with you on the knockouts here, it’s really annoying but I assume you’re right as in it’s an existing enclosure they have used. I’d just use the old step cutter to enlarge the hole and curse it whilst I was doing it...rather then curse tails trying to bend them, hate doing that it’s always a pain! Keep up the good work and content mate as always 👍🏻
@@dsesuk Dave, it's prob the same metal enclosure the company bought from another manufacturer to save on tooling costs and mass production to keep "their own" costs down, it's how the world works now...sad but true..but it may come to bite them on their own bum!..nice idea though, i may need to sell some to my customers :-)
@@Klberts1234 Lets hope your "growing lamps don't short and take the street out... Knock Knock.. it's da law! :-)
I completely agree about pulling fuse. But the seal is there because if the meter installer gets audited and they check everything is correctly tightened up correctly, if they leave loose connections and don’t seal the blocks up then they could say someone else may have been at it. Where as if they seal them up they know it was that person that left the loose connections.
Brilliant, love your diatribe on the DNOs and suppliers, absolutely bang on and exactly what I do too.
Blocks are sealed for engineer to say it was all tight at point of installation. If there's a problem later due to insufficient tightness and seals are missing. There's been tampering and ownership is off meter engineer.
I agree that an isolator could have been installed but generally engineers will only install if switch gear is outdated and likely to need updating in due course.
Isolators are installed after meter equipment on all new connections as standard however
Thanks Richard, a couple of others have said the same thing about the seals on the blocks, and it makes sense.
Best rant on DNO’s I’ve heard and everything you said is correct. Keep the good work going!
Thanks Andy.
@@dsesuk I totally agree about DNO's Dave, why oh why...when they decided to install smart meters did they not decide to include Main Isolators?..easy job, updates customers supplies, ... oh yeah...money" a £12 Wilex 100A from screwfix would save us sparkies a migrane and guilt trip, but they want the "nieve" among us to call them out for a quick buck! to install one... ;-) I think as long as you DO NOT CUT the meter seals they are fine, that's the only way to stop abstraction without some know how ;-)
Smart meters are installed by MOPs not DNOs
speaking to the electricity suppliers are a fu@$ing nightmare , no contractors switch ever and no clue on the phone as to why you need fuse out!? meters fitted in late 90s had contractors switch, they hate putting switch in.
Top bloke. Love learning from you
3:58 Could you not remount the Main switch on the rail to the left of the Surge Protector - thus giving you the straight run you require for the tails?
Brilliant David, 100% agree with you about provision for isolation being made available for installers. We've all being saying the same thing for years. On a side note, it's a bit strange we have a test label for RCD's but not one advising how often the window on an SPD should be inspected.
Don't put any ideas in their heads Alvin! I'm sure 18th Edition Amendment 1 will demand yet another massive label to be applied to every SPD installation, cryptically advising these things are checked every fifth Wednesday!
This whole 'fit metal enclosures debacle to reduce fires from arcing tails would have been much more simply solved by mandating twin screw terminals on main switches-- meters, cutouts, DNO isolators, Henley blocks, old wylex boards, CEFs M2 boards all have two screws per tail
Must admit, I took out an old wylex board the other day, and I thought, these the quality, despite being 30 years old
Not to mention certain manufacturers actually complying with the British standard and not just sticking the mark on their boards that failed the hot wire test. How there was never a recall on those products I do not know.
But the attitude seems to be, deal with the symptoms and not the cause. If the dick heads installing boards actually did it correctly we would still be using plastic boards, but because it was effecting London, we all have to bow to the capital and do something about it. Thank you London fire brigade. And you limp wristed cockneys.
KMF fused isolators are the fucking worst with their single screw. The amount of those that have just shit out their tails when touched because of the single shitty terminal held in by wank plastic pins (gosh, that was a lot of cursing) blows my mind. I've even broken the plastic terminal retainer when trying to replace the dropped tails and get the cover (which the electrician failed to install properly) on safely.
Shower pull cord switches had 2 screws and cooker switches too , I have changed lots of burnt out shower pull cords because of loose connections. They probably were tight before they were shoved up into the back box and twisted making them come loose 😕
@@dennisphoenix1 yeah, true no matter how tight you do those terminals, you can bet the swines will come loose.
*intermediate earth terminal*.. Explained very nicely to comply 😊.. I just picked up on the conversation below about how the tail from the Henley blocks are also included as part of the wiring lengths short enough to comply with..
“A biscuit tin of wank” 😂😂 Enjoyable Saturday morning viewing Mr S 👍🏻
Thanks big guy.
Yes indeed.
What is the Impedance of a "Biscuit tin of wank"? I imagine it's quite low :-)
Its a pain that most DNOs fail to properly provide isolation that we can use access and use in compliance with the E@WR. Personally SSE allowed me to go to the local engineering department and pick up temporary seals that allowed me to cut the DNO seals and put in the DP isolator! Good work!
David, congratulations on 10k. watched several of your videos, and have learned bugger all about electrical work.
But I have picked up a few useful tips - I now drink my Special Brew in a martini glass, with an olive. It's that sort of sophistication that sets you apart from the rest of the channels. Well done.
Thanks John, I'm glad I was at least able to add a touch of class to your beer swilling!
someone I know often removes covers without turning off the power, and I'm pretty certain they removed a light switch without turning the power off at one point (or was it installing a socket)
oh, and one thing they were planning on doing is adding an additional DB so that our house would have dual RCDs (at the moment it has 1 RCD, and the lighting circuits and the smoke detector circuit don't go through the RCD)
Well done David, your material is fantastic, and great comedy value too! Always look forward to your content!, onwards and upwards 👍🏻
Upwards? Things are always spiralling downwards at this end!
Good Video David, as to the DNO, i'm going to be synical here, and say I think the omission of a isolator to provide safety for electricians is not their first thought, I believe its what they can charge a customer for a call out is their only reason.
Ffs just pull the bloody fuse everyone does it!
You shouldn't bloody have to.
" belt and brace's"'no ARTY farty stuff ,😂
Just move the modules around and leave the rail in place
unfortunatly the busbar comes out the live on the left hand side ! so you would have to connect it to the negative terminal marked on the main switch , i have had the same problem with what looks like the same box from another brand , nice box but not thought through for the user!
The rant about the DNO, Cock up, relevant exchange / sharing of information, makes this top class.. thanks, look forward to more of.....
Totally agree dno needs to get there act together , I will carry on breaking seals
Do what you gotta do it seems. I prefer to get an isolator installed where my planning allows, but I'm not going to break into a sweat where I need act quickly and have been given no other quick and cost-effective reasonable option.
I rang the supplier in a similar case, been pulling fuses for years, they just told me to crack on even after reading back their snotty label that was attached. Will just pull the fuse and carry on.
Congrats on 10k, keep em coming.
I second your rant, and the look on a client's face when you say you can't do a CU change as I can't isolate the power is usually enough for me to say. "Don't worry about it, I'll sort it" ...... Yoink!!!!
I don't undertake many CU changes, only a handful per year, and I prefer to get an isolator installed via Haste for a planned job, but I showed that on a video once and had someone commenting that they worked for a DNO and weren't even happy with that arrangement, even though Haste are permitted to work on their kit. Whatever you do, you can't win it seems.
@@dsesuk Really? What was his point???!! Need to find someone local that can do that for me, Haste don't operate in my area. I ask every spark I come across, they all give me the same blank look and say, what don't you just pull the fuse.
Talking of CU changes, I have one coming up and there are 12 mcbs, and 25 circuits, how would you approach that? I was thinking of adding a few extra MCB's to split some up but aside from a space issue the client does not want two CU's, use some Wagos to join them together seems a bit janky, putting them into the same MCB not much better . Might be able to squeeze an enclosure in next to CU but the wires are a bit short and I'd have to extend them which just seems stupid as well. Blah.
@@oliverriall I think his point was just to sound like he knew better and be the big man! That's an awful lot of circuits. Personally, I don't like to common up circuits in MCB's, although I may combine a few to get the numbers down. An example would be where a doorbell or understairs light are on their own individual circuits; I might splice them into the ground floor lighting circuit rather than have them sitting on their own breakers. Biggest board I fitted (domestically single phase) was a CP Fusebox model I showed in another video. Twenty usable ways, 19 of which I outfitted with RCBO's for that installation. Not a bad price either.
Totally agree Dave, the DNO should be made to make all customer installations serviceable , enjoyed the video 👍
One of my fav electricians on RUclips 👍
Cheers chief!
The board with the meter on it is normally considered to belong to the electrical supplier & that is why they seal it.
i just cut the seal and pull the fuse, never had a comeback in 30 years....
This is why I like the Hungarian setup. The main fuse is an MCB which the client can turn off. The only downside is that it's usually 10-32A type B. Mine is 25 amp.
Hi David, 10K well done. Intro reminded me of OZ from Auf Wiedersehen Pet, He was partial to a good scatch of the bollocks
Those pubic lice really need you to dig in at times.
Fully agree regarding use of isolator. Most only fit when asked simply because its not considered. Fit as little as possible as keeps overall costs down if they dont have to. Think the only way this is solved is to get this put into the industry regulations making it a requirement to provide customer isolation facilities for all supplies.
Just slide the 100amp along din rail..and reconfigure rest ??..... loved your rant about cut out fuse removal,we have all been there !!!
Doable, but then I'd have to replace the busbar that comes with it as the line is on the left of the main switch. It's a question of how much I want to reconfigure something that should really roll out of the factory ready to go.
Cone cutter!
David Savery Electrical Services Good point, I wish some of these manufacturers would just stand back for fucking 30 seconds and think about it ....but they don’t !!!
@@dsesuk Your right mate they should have seen that. you don't wanna be messing around trying to fix a problem that shouldn't even exist in the first place.. love your vids keep up the good work its muchly appreciated and CONRATULATIONS on 10k that's fannytastic :) also do you know how the device stops the surges? Im gunna guess there's a large metal oxide varistor in there, from what you said about there being aa window to view the condition of the devices arse (blown out or not) lol anyways again cool vid thanks Dave..... Steve
@@T2D.SteveArcs Thanks Mr Destruction. Yes, I think it's a varistor in the thing. Either that and/or a spark gap.
I add run capacitors in parallel with compressor motors etc. because I found it makes your utility meter honest! They measure VA not watts! Even the new electronic ones.
You must experiment for the lowest amp draw with 1,2,4,8,16mfd caps for the best resonance.
Could help you earn more business.
Great to know that the SPD solved the LED blowing issue!
Seems to have done so thus far Jordan, but now that I've said it, I'll probably get callbacks from both sites with more failures.
Can you replace the cartridges in those spds? Cos if getting that many surges it might not last that long!
A previous council inspection by a Napit registered electrician advised me on PME installations you are not allowed to export the earth i.e. connect the armour of the SWA to earthing terminal in CU, if the armoured cable is for example, going to an outbuilding, it has to be TT'd at the outbuilding end, and feed protected with 100ma S type time delay RCD. The armour should be connected only at the end that is connected to earth rod. However still no excuse for not glanding it properly at the cu end!
That's interesting Neal, I've always done it the other way around - earth the SWA from the supply end up to the termination point at the outbuilding, then TT the outbuilding, but I suppose the armour would be better earthed from the rod end. If they have TT'd the far end of these SWA's here, and I doubt it considering the workmanship at this end, then as you say, they should have glanded them properly at the CU, otherwise you have the armour floating around inside the CU here possibly at a different potential to the MET in the same board.
Nicely put David about isolators
The DNO’s need to get their act together 😊
That's true in general unfortunately...
Why does a fuse even need sealing? It would take enormous bollocks to connect from the fuse holder to anything to abstract power. Even then it would be a struggle to get the happy-herb growing circuit wire in the fuse holder as well as the actual fuse surely ?
@@GeorgeStyles Not just for abstracting but as a stamp to say for sure that the MOP or jointer was the last person onsite and therefore liable for any faults left. If an electrician cuts it, they kind of remove some of that liability from the DNO/supplier. But on the abstracting side of things, people do abstract power in every way you can imagine including jointing (with varying success levels) to the phase cable from the street or pole. They rarely care whether the fuse is left intact or doing its job - especially if for a grow, where loads can exceed 63/80/100A. Seals aren't really there for that as criminals will crime regardless.
@@OkenWS aha! Cool... Jointing hahha. Anyway glad David didn't do it hot as the video would have had a solid 15 mins of him scratching his nuts instead of 5 :) on a serious note, that makes sense, thanks :)
Hi David, RE problems with knockout for the tails. Is it necessary to use the 32mm knockout for these tails? As far as I'm aware, the only reason we use these in modern boards is to remove the risk of eddy currents & heating in the steel between line and neutral tails; potentially carrying 100A. But surely we don't need to worry about electromagnetic effects on these tails which are in parallel to the current carrying tails. These conductors will only carry excess voltage/current for the fraction of a second that the surge lasts. So unless I've missed something, I would just use a couple of 25mm stuffing glands. AS a follow on to this; I have wished for ages that the CU manufacturers would replace the 32/40mm knockout with 2 x 25mm knockouts for std stuffing glands, but with the intervening strip of steel also precut as a knockout. If properly designed, the two glands would cover the space between the holes perfectly, so no IP issues and life much simpler for all.
Hi Gerald. No, tails glands aren't necessary as such, just a good way to keep them away from sharp metal edges and through the same hole. Something like the Wiska TKS32 would perhaps have been better for this job, but I didn't know they even existed until it was pointed out to me after this video! A large stuffing gland can also work, although as you say it would be nice if the manufacturer would think more about how we installers approach getting their kit onto the walls. Hager provide a plastic insert with their boards, it would be nice if others did the same.
Great video
Sorry if silly question but installing the spd seperate from the dB does it not only protect the incoming supply and not the outgoing circuits, as when the spike accurs by a cusuner product on consumer side its already damaged the equipment by the time it reaches the spd via the Henley blocks,
I ask this as spd still confuse me in there protection methods
Stephen, that is not a silly question. That is, in fact, an excellent question. And y'know, now you've got me wondering about the effectiveness of this installation, because if the surge is coming from something like the pool pump, then it's on the final circuit side and in the Hager board before it gets to my SPD.... I guess time will tell whether the SPD, installed remotely to the man CU, acts quickly enough to prevent damage, but thank you for ruining my day.
I think they are supposed to protect from transient overvoltages from the incoming distribution network rather than the other way round
@@dsesuk I do apologise was not my aim it's an ongoing battle in my own mind to where to position an spd for any afficiant effect to then justify the additional cost and justification to a customer
@@stephenlaw8860 No apology necessary, it's an excellent point. To be honest, I'd expect a rise in voltage from either the supply or final circuit side to get into the whole installation pretty damn quickly, and I'm surprised these short wiring lengths are a consideration at all as I can't see them making much difference, but I guess the IET know what they're talking about. Watch this space, and we'll see if problems persist!
David Savery Electrical Services Maybe I can give you back your peaceful weekend... That SPD with all the overcurrent and isolation is finally just a pair of MOVs wired to ground. So if a spike comes from an inductive load (swimming pool pump, heat pump etc.) to the CU, it will have the sting taken out of it by the MOVs that are effectively in parallel with the bus bars and should protect the whole installation.
Dave! I agree with everything you say regarding cutting seals/etc and DNO complications. Cut them/improve existing installation like we do. It's going to hard to ever beable to syncroise an installation where it goes smoothly with renewables/heat pumps/solar battery/fuse board upgrades etc and us as electricians need to carry out works agreed with clients in a timely Manor with little inconvenience so we have to do what we have to do. Fully qualified electricians would be given the green light if there wasn't an on going tampering/unqualified persons doing bad practice. Napit recently apposed a ban from electrians cutting seals. This says something to me
Did you verify with the previous customer that the SPD stopped their lights blowing? Or did they maybe just stop calling you back to report the lights blowing as you said you won't cover them?
You're right, I've made an assumption that problems are resolved on that last site, but I never said I would no longer honour the warranty; I recommended the SPD be installed to rule out surge events as the cause. If problems persist at that site, I would expect them to report back to me as their lamps are still under warranty, especially as the SPD is in place.
@@dsesuk I always state on the invoice that LED lighting is covered by manufacturers warranty, but my labour is not, so still chargeable ;-) new policy. However, I have fitted LAP lighting which has 3Year warranty and had very little failures, but when i do, still get my call out.
As a meter installer the reason we seal outgoing connection blocks is just to prove that we have tighten up the connections, no problem with someone chopping those seals just means it's not my responsibility if those connections have a future problem. Personally I fit isolators wherever I can on meter installations as I'm not paying for them my company is. Also I most meter installers I know don't give a shit if seals are missing, we just do our job and seal up again, as long as there's no sign of bypass it no problem to us.
Also I used to fit for the company that installed that meter and the policy was to fit connection blocks if the outgoing tails were not the correct colours (most commonly both the same colour). Personally I always said it made more sense to just stick in an isolator. Some meter company's have some bullshit practices.
Thanks Joe, nice to hear from a proper person on the subject.
@@dsesuk Not sure about being a proper person 😁 But happy to answer questions and attempt to bridge the divide between "meter monkeys" and sparkys 🤣
David 'The Electrical Punk' Savery.
Sticking it to the establishment.
John Lydon would be proud 😆
The ol' two-finger salute comes in handy for most situations I find myself in these days.
Very good as I may need to install an external SPD very soon and wasn't sure how to do it. Now I do, nice one David!
couldnt you have removed the SPD and shifted the isolator and MCB along and then stick the SPD on the right hand side of the isolator ?? the length of conductors would still be under half a metre but the tails would be neater ???
Firsteerr Lastmwwew think dave was just meaning it should come with the knock outs the other way rather than him having to alter himself. But you could sort it by doing it your way just involves bit more work.
It could be modified, but really, should I have to rearrange it out of the box? Also, I'd have to change the busbar as the polarity of the main switch is such that line comes from the left terminal. Or I could reverse polarity on the switch, it doesn't make any difference after all, but that would look odd and wouldn't comply with how Lewden designed it.
I know you shouldn't have to and more thought should have gone into the design but on this occasion, I would have used a cone bit and opened out the smaller hole on the right to accommodate the main tail gland.
Great to watch someone from the real world of electrical contractors
"Unlike Plumbing this is a Noble Industry" 🤙
Nobel or Noble 🤔
@@beardedsparks2825 A simple typo.
After a tough day Jobbing about, your videos, make me smile, keep up the good work !
Really useful explanation on how to achieve compliance with the refs when installing SPDs. Totally agree with you on the lack of isolation. The Smart Meter spec should have mandated a consumer-accessible isolator.
Thanks Tony, and you're quite right about the smart meters, what an opportunity lost!
One thing to remember is you can be prosecuted under the 1971 criminal damage act by the DNO For cutting cutout or meter seals. People working on the public electricity supply have to be authorised and have a authorisation pass to work on the system. There are certain Dangers in pulling cutout fuses, ie, If the cutout is defective and explodes and you are not wearing appropriate PPE you could be seriously injured.
This is true, but the client should have the option of being able to safely isolate their own installation without the cost and hassle of arranging a call out from an authorised engineer (currently £218 inc VAT with Western Power). The smart meter rollout should have mandated a means of isolation integral to the meter to address older properties which currently lack the means. Some people just can't afford that cost. Others won't pay it, so cowboy installers who leave no paper trail get the work. The network operators place street sparkies in this position and nobody ever corrects it - not government, not trade bodies, not meter/service head manufacturers.
I always pull the main fuse I must have cut hundreds of seals over the years,
Stick it to 'em Dan!
Western Power Distribution are clamping down on it. Absolute joke!
@@mrelectronicsdude WPD down by me can't seem to even inspect their own network for glaring safety faults on a semi-regular basis. Surely they don't have the resources. I get the impression they've been almost entirely working response jobs for some time now, at least in my area.
In NI, the DNO says it’s the sparky’s job to pull the fuse. It’s a crime if you don’t seal it afterwards.
Mate just wanna say you are the best electrician ive ever seen
first important job rearrange 'crown jewels'
There's just no room for your junk when wearing women's underwear under your site trousers.
@@dsesuk At last my suspicions were correct about you, you're just a bloody pervert, you are still my favourite funny & knowledgeable spark on RUclips.
BTW Congrats on the 10k... Regards from Ray the old sod from North West Wales..
@@raywelshman Cheers again Ray, you old bugger!
What a brilliant video. Love all the explanations, fantastic David. Super duper ranting. And your contribution to all who follow you is second to none! 👍👍
Cheers Richard, glad you found it useful. Look out for an update video on this subject later this week!
Loved the beginning Dave 😏
Cheers Geoff
Loved your end comments and totally agree. Thanks for sharing
I have been there my self one time I was fitting a isolator switch then am being asked why be a so called NIC guy. I told him the fuse box is being changed very soon as an kitchen extension is being built. He then chats crap so I asked him a basic cable calculation he walks away.
3:31 'bending thick tails' - either flip the devices on the DIN rail or refit the DIN rail the other way up. Suddenly you'll have the larger knockout just where you want it !
Vertical position of DIN rail not important. Flip it over it will still be the same position to fit the hole in the cover. The box and cover - mount upside down while the equipment stay right way up.
If I flipped the DIN rail, the cover would go on upside down and the lid would be left hanging open. I could rearrange the items on the DIN rail, but then I'd have to scrap the busbar as the line would be coming out the wrong side of the switch... unless I reversed polarity at the switch and scratched out the L and N markings. I could also cut out a larger hole on the right side of the box. All these things can be done, but why should I have to do them on a new product that's made for this job?
@@dsesuk Cure the open lid by removing it - or mount the whole thing the other way up - so the kit inside is upside down.
Put a gas cooker in here decades ago and part of the install was removing the glass lid and jamming the lid-operated gas valve open.
This is very useful information, cheers David. I will give this a go as one pub garden festoon lighting install is constantly popping LED lamps, yet other installs using the same LED lamps have had very few failures, (the nominal voltage on this site is between 236V - 239V)!
Cheers. This might be anecdotal, but desperate times call for desperate measures. And why are the troublesome warranty sites always the ones that are furthest away?? You can also get a Type 3 SPD which is just for protecting particular items of equipment, so that may be easier and cheaper than installing something at source.
Your so knowledgeable because you explain things in a way that is so easy to understand which can only be done if you know what you're doing,
Thank you for the videos amount of things I learn as per your experience I am great full of.
I was wondering as in future videos are you able to share more test results for more detailed information regarding some of the reading.
Thank you
Hi Dave isn't it customery to fit a spd next to the main double pole switch so it protect all the mcbs down stream just a question not a criticism love you channel
I salute you sir. Cracking rant about an isolator. David you should be a union rep for all us Sparky's. Top video👍👍
Thanks Darren, and I'd like to volunteer for the job! If you and every other sparkie in the country would like to mail me a modest £5 union membership charge, I'll get right onto it from my office in Tahiti!
Amen on the Henley blocks. I went round to my grandmother's after the British Gas smart meter cowboy had been and found they had removed perfectly serviceable Henley blocks on the consumer side of the meter and re-routed the customer tails for no logical reason, other than as you say, making future changes more difficult.
Great, so the item of client side equipment that you could have used to add an additional board has been removed! I'm sure it looks neater... for what it's worth!
If the armoured sheath is earthed at one end that is sufficient, doesn't matter which end it's done at if it's only being used as mechanical protection and not the cpc
It depends on what's going on with these SWA's though. If they go to outbuildings which have been TT'd and the SWA is connected to the rod, then it shouldn't be floating about at the CU as it may be a different potential to the MET and CPC's inside the CU enclosure. Looking at the shonkyness of them though, I suspect they're not earthed at either end. Whichever way, a diligent installer wouldn't have left them flapping around like this.
“A biscuit tin of wank” will now be my preferred phrase on site when describing some rough and bodged work. Mr Savery I thank you for extending my vocabulary 🤣
Also that alarm🚨Every fucking time!🤦🏻♂️🙄🤣
Ah, but it has been pointed out to me that it functions as a 'safe to work' alarm as it indicates when the power is off!
Near a farm - welder and amateur usage causing massive load short and release, causes havoc on the local supply.
Noted the text about "Torx" not "Torque". In this case, you could really screw with the pedant's head up by starting to refer to it as a 6-lobe screwdriver head, or a hexalobular internal screwdriver head. Torx is a brand name :-) ISO 10664
I'm not an electrician (which will be obvious from my query!) but I asked a local spark about what cable to use if I wanted to put a socket in my shed (which is 25 metres from my house) and I told him I'm not burying the cable, I'm running it along my fence. He said Arctic flex as it doesn't degrade. Now the question is - can I run this cable to a mini consumer unit as I want to put a light in the shed along with the socket, or have I got to run armoured cable? You'll probably think I'm a tool for asking a daft question!
When the DNO pulled my main fuse to check the line back the transformer on a PME system, he never fitted the seal back as it isnt an enforced rule that they have to be their, unless the property owner has been suspected of tampering with the meter, and they stick a seal with a serial number on it for later reference to see if it has been pulled again. Suspected weed farms mainly!
I've seen the same Sam: fuss about cutting fuse seals not replicated by the engineers on the ground unless they're suspicious about something!
If the knockout above the main isolator isn't big enough you could drill it out with a 40mm holesaw , looked like a 20mm so easy to change
Nice video.
Could it have been connected from the Henley blocks to the new double pole switch and then to the consumer unit, in turn providing an isolation point for future works?
I have not worked in the UK for over 12 years, I was 16th edition trained and live in Oz now.
Great video Dave showing the everyday problems that electricians have to work with ,maybe use the 19 strand flexi tails so much easier the earth fly lead is also a pain with the lid
Yes, I need to get the flexi tails on the van. Cheers Daren.
“So, FUCK YER SEALS”. That was said so much conviction and yet so cool.
Top video 👍👍👍👍 the wylex SPD you were recommended in the REC enclosure cannot be used in a domestic installation as its plastic & classed as switchgear. The SPD you are installing is in line with the current regs as it is with non combustible enclosure. I tried when AMD 3 came out to put a REC2 enclosure with a 100ma s type to protect a TT domestic install & was told by wylex they could not be used in domestic
Situation.
I’m not saying I agree with the regulations, but we are meant to follow them.
Pulling suppliers fuses, they should allow sparks to do a short course & have a telephone number to ring for resealing. But they don’t, so the fuse is pulled. I always wear electricians gloves & covers with a face mask. Yes even in a domestic situation, I regard myself as taking due care, should something happen. My Elecsa inspector was quite happy with me using the protective gear. I always reseal the fuse & meter afterwards.
That's interesting Patrick as I would have fitted the Wylex had it been cheaper, and I would have discussed the issue of it being in a plastic enclosure. If I get Haste to install an isolator, they're still putting in plastic ones. It seems to be one rule for supplier kit, another for consumer kit. Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with an isolator/SPD in a plastic box so long as it was installed correctly and torqued. I don't see why it's acceptable at one end of a
The metering company & the DNO apparently work to different regs. I’ve had all this out with the tech helpline
& wylex some time ago. The metering company can install the plastic enclosure, but we cannot. If we were allowed to use the REC 2 enclosure with a 100ma S type RCD, this would solve all the problems with metal boards on TT earthing systems. It’s all crazy in my opinion, but who am I to argue.
Hi David,
i think the seals on the connectors was only for safety and protection for someone who easily accessed the connection and got hurt ..
Spot on about the DNO and isolators , luckily every job I go to already has the main cut out seals removed by someone else 😉😁
Fully agree with you about isolation. I was fortune when they did the smart meters they installed a double pole isolator.
Pulling the main fuse is a safety issue , if it goes wrong and explodes in your face you can get 2000 amps passing before your eyes . If you want to pull fuses use gloves and a face shield to protect yourself .
You're right, and I'd rather not do it. It would be so much better if I sometimes didn't have to!
Totally agree about the DNO seals and lack of isolation mate. Well said ! SSE and co.... take note !
David should a type 1 spd have been used in this installation . I thought a type 2 was for consumer units .
@davidsaveryelectricalservices Cheers for the shout out good sir, glad could steer you in a useful direction :-D
Thanks again for the heads-up my good man!
Apart from some most useful informatio, guidance and advice (THANK YOU DAVID) - I must however comment (with much humorous self-satisfaction) your somewhat surreptitious insertions, (every now and then - completely under the wire, as it would appear) full range of uncensored expletives >> which NOT ONLY adequately emphasizes your getting PISSED OFFwith some entity >>> But TOTALLY CRACKS ME UP, (from all the way here in CAPE TOWN).
Subscribed, liked and shared!!
(THANK YOU DAVID!!) ♥️👍😘
Cheers Anthony, and thanks for the sub!
a) The first five seconds of this video were spoken like a true construction worker. Bravo!
b) That fancy pants Metrel of yours had me viewing your video on it. Nice piece of kit.
c) We used to cut the seal of a meter as we deemed necessary. And after we finished whatever we were doing, we would call in to the city or REA (Rural Electric Association) to have the seal replaced. What's wrong with that system? And I've no idea why they would seal the Henley blocks (aka "Distribution block" here). What's the purpose in that?
The way that the SPDs were made here (back in the day at least) was that it had a threaded hub with tails coming out of the hub and you would attach it directly to the side of the panel. Our panels can go up to 42 circuits (2 for the mains, 40 for the branch circuits), so plenty of room - usually. But in an old installation you are bound to find that a smaller panel has been installed. So I like your little SPD box, nice and tidy, and doesn't require space in the main panel.
As for wiring things hot, any overhead service that we did had to be wired up hot at the weatherhead (at least for houses). Culls out the slow learners...
The last panel swap that I did for a friend, I did hot (2006 maybe?). Why bother the inspector for a trivial little thing like a new panel? (that, and I'm not licensed here in Tennessee :) ) It was an old FPE ("Federal Pacific Electric", or "Flaming Piece of Equipment" as we refer to them) that had finally lived up to its legacy and had started to catch on fire.
The open wiring that you have there is different that what we do, ours has to be protected. Although in really old houses you may see that the service has been run in "SE" (Service Entrance) cable. And you might come across a surface-mounted meter (like yours) in such an installation. Not better, not worse, just different.
I kinda like your panels though, and I do like that everything is on a GFCI. And what is a "ring circuit"? Do you go out from the panel and then back in with redundant feeds? What you call a "trunk" we would call a "home run" here, and we would run just the one home run.
We don't do tests or re-inspections here, rather we would get called out if there was a problem. Not sure if that's better or worse.
And I am sure that it is the same over there as it is here, once your neighbor finds out that you are an electrician (retired or not), you are their new best friend. :)
The ring circuit concept is indeed... interesting, and it has it's reasons for being which is basically down to a copper shortage after WW2! Instead of wiring two or three low-current radial socket circuits, a house could have one higher current (30A) circuit wired in a thinner cable that looped from the board, around all the outlets and back again to provide two paths for sharing the load current. For some reason it caught on and they're still installed by many today, although on an installation like this it's pretty ridiculous and makes the job harder. Two radial circuits would have sufficed here. The sealing of the distribution blocks was, I'm told, so that if there was a fire following a loose connection, then our version of the REA wouldn't be liable if they found the seals had been cut. It just indicates whether they were the last ones in there tightening terminal screws or not which makes sense I guess. One thing we're behind on which you chaps have been using for years are AFDD's. When I was visiting my sister in Seattle in 2017, I noticed her FPE board had such, but it's all new (domestically speaking) here, and so far I haven't installed or seen a single one out in the wild.
@@dsesuk Ah, I get it. And you would know right away if you had one of your trunk returns on the wrong phase. :)
Now I understand, and as long as you can cut the seal on your Henleys when you need to, it's no big deal. Here, everything before (up to the weatherhead or the junction box for underground) and after the meter belongs to the electrician. The seal is just to keep (most) people honest. In the old days our meters could be installed upside down to make them run backwards. Cheats would flip the meter upside down for one week out of the month to get a 50% discount on their monthly electric bill.
I had an old electrician tell me that on his house that he built in Texas he had installed a Tee inside the space between the soffit and the roof penetration (where you normally wouldn't be able to see it). From there he tapped into the feeders before the meter, and fed a subpanel in his attic that powered his AC unit from. I don't know that I believe him, he was given to telling "Tall Texas Tales" as often as breathing, but his idea would definitely work.
If your sister has an old FPE panel I would encourage her to get it replaced. FPE lost their UL listings on pretty much all of their breakers at one point or another. The standard non-joke back in the day about FPE breakers was that you could use a 15 amp breaker to run your 200 amp welder. And I'm sure that for many FPE breakers this would have been entirely possible.
Honestly, there is no point in buying different sizes of FPE breakers, it's not like they are going to trip anyways. And to make matters worse, they also have their feeders overheat more often than what I've seen in other makes of panels. That said, there are a ton of FPE panels out there silently chugging along with no problems at all.
As for AFDD breakers, I was all set to install them on my parents house, but the AFDD breaker incorporates a GFCI as well (your RCD), and their house was wired with their home runs in 14-3 and 12-3 meaning that two circuits shared a common neutral. I would have had to rip that out and redo the home runs in 14-2 and 12-2.
Now if you want to see how it's done elsewhere, wire a house in Mexico. The walls are cinder block, and the ceilings and floors are poured concrete. They lay in plastic water pipe before the pour, and stub the ends down to where the switch or plug would be mounted on the wall. I call it "water pipe" not to be mean, but because it is the exact same stuff that they use for water pipe. Saves time at the supply house, clever.
You pop your knockout in the ceiling box (mind you that you don't remove the KO, you just flip it up. No wasted time here) and stub *all* of your runs into the ceiling box. Makes for a cramped box once you pull your wires. And connectors for your conduit? Who needs stinking connectors? Just be sure to stub it long enough into the box so the pipe doesn't get kicked out by the guy pouring the concrete.
When you make your connections you have a myriad of choices as to how you do this. Twisted wires with black, white, red, or blue tape - your choice. What you can't do is to buy a wirenut outside of a pack from Truper that contains 4 of the size that you need, and 16 that are too small. On the other hand, at 20 Pesos it's only a bit more than a dollar for the entire pack.
I wired my first, and last, house in Mexico last year and soldered the connections together and taped them up (how it was done long before I was an apprentice, and it's held up well for nigh on 100 years). Not how we would do it stateside, but as I remind folks here, the "N" in NEC stands for "National".
The saving grace is that you can't burn one of these houses down. Maybe they are on to something?
Good rant bloody right, pulled the main fuse for 30 years. I use them Lewden SPD’s try using the 25mm blue brown flexie tails, much easier
Is it not the fact that LED lights in general are crap, and that everyone rushed into buying them!!!! The amount of LED security lights ive replaced is unbelievable!!!! And the LED spot lights I have had problems with have been the push fit connectors on the transformers!!!! There a nightmare in general. The way I deal with LED is to put GU10 in, and have just the LED lamp in, which sorts that problem out. And for security lights I installed halogen lights and put a LED lamp in so as it was just the lamp that went not the complete fitting. That sorted that out, but unfortunately, they have just about stopped them. So its back to installing complete security light fittings, and the one I put on my house, did not work at all. So back to the shop, got my money back and got one from Wiks instead and that did the job. LED lights should be able to withstand surge currents.
Another top vid Dave. Not sure about the spds protecting the led lamps. More likely a rise in voltage over a period of time than a spike in voltage. Out in the sticks the nominal voltage can rise and fall way above the limits. Interesting to see if it cures your problem though, keep us posted 🙂👍
I might be barking up the wrong tree, but desperate times call for desperate measures! I'll report back anything that's worthy of reporting back!
David... thank you.. You not only explain things very well you elaborate on the subject matter and round of any sharp edges as it where. Yo and a few other on you tube are my first port of call when faced with something im not sure about. obliged ..
Very kind of you to say so sir, I thank you for your time in viewing my nonsense.
This installation, while I’m sure will do something, seems like the big capacitor in a wall wart energy saver.
I was expecting the tails to run through the new DB, and for it to effectively be an isolator with integrated surge protective device...
Oh, I see JW suggested the tails through the SPD enclosure with on the Twitters...
That would be the better way of doing it. You can install an SPD in parallel like this, but I've made a mistake with this one which is explained in the updated description!
the correct driver for henleys is 4mm hex, also the most common hex is H15. i'll happily send you the multiple sets of drivers i bought trying to find that out minus H4 and T15
The Boddingtons VDE driver I have is for that purpose, but I might have said the wrong size among my hotheadedness!
I brought up the fact that smart meters did not have built in isolators prior to them being installed (a few years ago) with SELECT (who sit on some fancy committee) and the answer back was that it was decided against built in isolators as it would cost another £3-£4 per meter !
Oh, I've no doubt that it was a financial consideration. Never mind that the 1st gen smart meters were cack and a complete waste of money themselves!
@@dsesuk The financial part IMO was that the DNO's have a nice little number fitting isolators at a cost of up to £140. If the meters had isolators they lose a revenue stream
@@baldelectrician Yes, I've heard that one too. It's nuts if true. "We'll deliver power, but we won't give them the opportunity to safely remove that power". Fucking cheers!
Hi David, Love the video's, is "the biscuit tin of wank" a technical term? and if so where can I get one. Couldn't agree more about the isolation problem with DNO's and supply companies.
Yes, it's in BS7671. Somewhere near the back I think...
@@dsesuk Thanks David I will look it up
In your defence regarding the incoming main supply fuse, I needed work doing on my fuse box and all I did was call my electricity supplier and the conversation was .." There is no seal on my main fuse, is it ok to pull it out while the work is done? It was like that when I bought the house as there has clearly been a re-wiring done at some point" and they simply answered, " yeh, it's fine" lol this was pre-(not so)smart meter. I had a clock style meter back then.