Totally agree with you doing a full eicr including insulation resistance before a board change it’d be mad not to surely, I only say this after a firm I worked for sent me to a board change , unknown to me and the lad with me no prior testing by the firm had been done just told to go and change the board and the lad put a new lighting circuit in the garage from the sub main. The board was changed for a full rcbo board and turned on boom two lighting circuit trips in the main house, low and behold a previous sparks who wired the conservatory borrowed a neutral from the sockets and same thing upstairs , so wise advice my friend
Still catching up on your prodigious output.👍You are clearly on top of your game - enjoy the technical aspects of your videos and the humour is a welcome bonus.
Another great video, excellent work, as always!! At least Fusebox are listening and making changes, other manufacturers probably wouldn't and think their product was perfect already...
Your absolutely 100% correct, I would never do a consumer change without a full EICR. I have seen other sparks do ring testing when the board is off. Once the board is removed it’s the electricians problem!!! I don’t think I’ve ever had any customer refuse, once you explain why it needs to be done. By the way board looks great👍🏼
Mad isn't it? You wouldn't catch me pulling a board off the wall without knowing I can get it back on and working again! What are they going to do when it's the end of the day and the lights are still off?? Check first, clear the faults, then do the change, and if the client doesn't want to do it that way, then I don't want them as a client!
I apply it at the full price, and my EICR pricing is charged per circuit so that larger installations with more circuits requiring more time are covered. Many installers quoting, say, £400 for a CU change will perform only a perfunctory inspection or will skip it altogether making the job a nice little earner, but most of that cost is supposed to be down to the time the inspection and testing ought to be taking. On a eight-circuit house, I might charge £140 for the EICR portion, but that comes out of the total cost of the board change. The physical work is then just the labour for the time it takes, the materials and the certification. Many will cram it all into one day, spend as little time as possible on the inspection/testing and walk out with a decent whack which is understandable from the business perspective, but runs the risk that something ain't gonna play nicely with an RCD.
MrBazza1975 I now charge a minimum of £165 per EICR or £40 per board & £20 per circuit. Whatever is the most expensive. EICR are so time consuming you need to be paid correctly to do them properly
I like this idea as I shoot myself in the foot by saying well I have to test all the electrics in the house afterwards. But I do do a quick ir test before ripping out old board. I will keep my gob shut from now on do full test then swop the board. There is a company called SBS from Stockport that does miniature rcbo's with no fly leads. They have a neutral busbar instead. Not sure what the enclosure is like as I was just adding a curcuit to an existing plastic one. Great video as per.
I went to a property with a service head that looked like that. Seemed as though the earth block on the cut out was just connected to the neutral and then a 4 mm earth wire connected to the lead sheath. Seemed as though the best thing to do was to put the 4 mm into the block on the side of the cut out and come off with a 16 mm main earth. Excellent videos thanks.
Legrand Austria used to do some terrific boxes back in the 80s... 24 ways and something like eight earth- and neutral-ways. Even considering the fact that the boards were likely to house a four-pole RCD and MCBs that break the neutral (two modules wide) that's incredibly tight! These jobbies were commonly used in flats, which, according to the Austrian regs, means only a water bond for the bathroom but you'd still have main earth plus water bond plus up to ten circuits Most people resorted to either double-lugging all the earths or using the neutral bar for earth as well. What a mess!
I would like to point out, that as a property maintenance self employed whatever I am, I cant believe the amount of time you have to spare to video footage of your sector. With that said, I understand electricians have to pass tests and so on to keep up to regs and so on, but for the love of me you love blogging, I wish i could spend an hour a day to blog stuff! I love the passion but it keeps coming up on my youtube channel.
D. Really good point on IR testing, I shudder when the dreaded 0.03 M ohm (or there abouts) appears on the MFT. We're left scratching your head thinking 'what accessory have I missed?' Or 'is there some florescent leaking to earth'. From what I've seen of your work, cable dressing is not something you need be concerned about! Keep up the good work. Oh, and Nigel, go easy on the 'Hamsters!' Nice to see the #E5 mention 😊
We had one yesterday Shaun, passed IR at 250V with 17MOhm, but a failure at 500V. Took us a while to track down the two extension leads with SPD's hidden behind furniture even though we suspected that's what we were looking for! IR is a royal pain in the arse, but I'm not going to swap out a board without knowing the new one ins't likely to trip off and cause me a headache! Also, I was wrong about hamsters, it turns out that Nigel likes mice or voles.
@@dsesuk You truly do make me smile in a what is sometimes seemingly a cesspit industry with clients that really don't have a clue the extent we go to to help them out! As for Nigel, I have informed my contact at the RSPCA!🤣
N Bundy Electrical Had a lad on our firm fit one as he needed two boards and thought it was cheaper to do a stacker...the boss got the invoice from the wholesaler and had a shit fit 🤣
Yeah, it would have been cheaper to get 2 boards and bolt them together 😢 another good video Dave, I’ve got a max demand issue and after watching u and cjr it’s solved my problem 👌
I bought one too. Dual ie stacked board, with two lines of din rail in if that's what you mean. It was about £300 luckily the job it's for has been delayed it took 6 weeks to arrive at CEF!!! Love your videos by the way, you're fantastic at presentation, I'm shit at it, I can't remember the words I want to say ever! You're also easy on the eye which helps.
Hi David, just wanted to let you know not only do I find your Videos entertaining but full of VERY useful information and I just wanted to say a BIG thanks for both, hope you can keep on with the good work, to you Nigel and your family stay safe and healthy and maybe wealthy :-) thanks.
Great vid as usual... i completely agree with you on carrying out a ICR or at least insulation test on circuits, prior to ccu replacement, we loose a few jobs because of that but hey at least we dont get callbacks or unexpected costs that upset the client....
Hager sell standard boards the same as that fuse box with 20 odd ways and a main switch. Those dual level boards also come with just a switch so you can use RCBO’s. That cef price is nuts. I pay at least half that at my cef. Great video as ever David.
I went in to CEF on a Saturday morning for a chat and to browse the catalogues, but we couldn't find another enclosure that quite fitted the bill with 20 ways and SPD which is why I looked elsewhere and ordered online (something I don't often do a I prefer to source locally). Cities weren't able to find me a stack Hager board without the RCD's, but that may just be them being crap. Empty Hager enclosures with SPD are still a lot pricier than this which came in at under a ton with VAT. The enclosure and RCBO costs on this CP stuff shaved three figures off the bill which was already (relatively) high from the fault finding, the circuits that needed extending and the time it took to get this replacement on the wall.
I thought it was very neat for the amount of extending and jigging about you had to do! I like the amount of room you have between the top of the RCBO's and the earth/neutral bar to run cables which some of the bigger brands just dont give you! Top job!
That was a (very) long day. Retrofit boards can be a proper pain when cables are coming in from all directions which is why I was never happy that Hager and Schneider brought out Amendment 3 boards without side or bottom knock-outs.
With all your flush customers David, you ought to try Crabtree Starbreaker boards with the miniature RCBOs ... no fannying about with busbars ...😆 Rep says they are releasing single module combined RCBO/AFDD later in the year too (if that’s your thing)!
I have fitted a few Starbreakers, and jolly nice boards they are too, if a little on the expensive side. I took a look at their AFDD in a video a year ago and was told then that single module AFDD/RCBO units were on the horizon. Hager get the best press because they are simply everywhere - walk into Cities, Denamns or Eddies and you know they have the enclosures and protective devices, and if they're missing something then the branch up the road will have it.
There's a balance between providing something photogenic and the time on site the client is prepared to pay you for. Most customers are never going to look under the bonnet, so taking the time to trim the wires to something you could set your watch by isn't worth the effort. So long as you're leaving it in a state where the next guy can see circuit x goes into neutral bar position x and earth bar position x, you should be alright!
I've worked in houses where fusebox has been immaculate but rest of wiring been totally shit, best with a good honest job done correctly throughout rather than photo opportunity for instagram generation, keep up the good work😆
Same, I've also worked in older houses where the 1970s wiring was excellent. Multiple rings with washing machine, boiler, dryer all back to the board on separate circuits which has never had a fuse blow in 40 years! Really tidy, all Wylex and MK gear, 2 separate fuse boxes one below the other, each with main switch in each Wylex board replaced with RCD. Split load 40 years ago!
Understairs / electrics cupboard light I'd wire in before the consumer unit - along with a 13A socket - so you have power & light locally with the rest of the property in darkness.
You can't wire in *before* the consumer unit without pushing everything through another consumer unit. On an RCBO board, if the whole property is in darkness, the whole supply has gone and having something "before" or in addition to the main CU wouldn't be of any use anyway. I think the battery backed up bulkhead light is generally the best bet, with a standard light switched off the closest lighting circuit if it's a general use cupboard.
Asking for trouble if you don't, after all, a legitimate installer would be providing a certificate for the ongoing safety of the installation following their change of the protective devices, so what are they going to do if they pull the old board off and then find there's a ring break, undersized wiring or a shite IR??!
Nice... discussion point, can you put a PIR light in the same cupboards as the gas meter? If there is a leak / gas build up then opening the door would action the light coming on, is this a problem? Saw the argument on insta the other day...
Interesting point. Can't say I considered it. I don't believe there's anything against selecting electrics for a cupboard containing gas equipment though, but I might be wrong. Hopefully, being a LED light, there won't be any switching current big enough to cause arcing.
I find that people are under the misconception that the a new consumer board installation will be the answer to all their wiring problems. An eirc would certainly put doubts about the condition of the wiring into perspective. How many times have we found broken rings or circuits with oversized MCB ratings? I'm liking the CP fuseboard? Mammoth number of circuits. Would be interesting to know why so many for a normal dwelling, unless it's a mansion. Being Stratford upon Avon, I wouldn't be surprised. Great video.
It's a heavily extended house, the original building having a single storey wing off the rear, then another single storey section extending it and jutting off it at 90 degrees as a second wing making it U-shaped. The circuit count is more down to the illogical electrical installation performed by (presumably) the builder when the extension work was done about 15 years ago. There are seven circuits just for lighting which are split all over the place - two downstairs rooms each have a whole circuit to themselves for example. Had it been properly designed, there would have been fewer circuits more logically laid out.
@@dsesuk phew!!!! Rather you than me. An even better reason, (should any doubt) for an eicr prior to board change. Can't even imagine the possibilities of it going tits if you hadn't. Love it mate👍🏽
CAPTIVE SCREWS - hate the bloody things ! Had too may fall out and roll down the drain - so I take screws out fully by practice and put them somewhere safe !
There's nothing on this one for EV charging, Solar PV or for homes with cellars or attic conversions (it's just sockets/lights up/down). If they cleared the useless guff and picked either text or pictorial labels, they could include a much larger range and save me some Brother tape!
@@dsesuk Agreed. Same with the Earth and Neutral bars they all seem to score a miss on that one too. The only time I have come across really well thought out and useful bars is on Bremca boards but they are commercial industrial. The title designer, these days, seems to get handed out to any knob with a penchant for crayoning outside the lines rather than thinking about the end goal.
Hi Dave, when people find open ends on a ring or hi resistance, is it still not a risk swapping out the 32amp mcb for a 20amp? I get the 20 mcb will protect the cable, but what about shock or fire hazards? Thank you.
It was massively cheaper than the Hager route. Normally, I'd be put off by a price that much lower, but I'm seeing a lot of positive feedback on Twitter about CP Fusebox, so there's gotta be something in it.
Great video David, neat enough , especially stuck in a cupboard for half a day, all the extra neat ones you see are fitted in a empty garage at head height with 4 circuits on , so a fair bit easier to deal with, keep up the good work
I think it's fair enough about doing your test on one day and then come back for the consumer unit change on another day. You know where you stand and probably end up saving time on the proper day. Makes sense but I can see how some customers might get miffed with two days off - better that than no lecky randomly a few days later. Great job with vid and leck 👍
It would be difficult anyway on an installation of this size, but I used to do smaller installations in a single day, and got caught once where I was still on site at 7PM, it was getting dark and the homeowner wanted to get on with cooking his dinner! If I'm going to do the job, then I want to clear the unknowns and have a straightforward time of it!
@@dsesuk Yeah, I guess on smaller / simpler properties it might be frowned upon, but like you say, bigger ones are fair enough. I think if any trade could have a proper look round or test, the job on the day could be made more foreseeable and all that! Fyi watched it to the end, you do make I chuckle. Enjoy your beer 👍
I find these videos interesting because UK household wiring is quite different from the US. The different voltage may be one reason for more safeguards in the consumer panel, and it all seems both more complex yet compact. UK electricians would have a heart attack in the US. While there is a national electrical code here, not all states and municipalities subscribe to it. My state still allows homeowners to do their own wiring, subject to inspection. However, the qualifications for a building inspector vary widely, and my previous home had some weird arrangements. I know, because I did a lot of it myself! Usually, the only circuits protected from ground faults are those for kitchen or bathroom outlets. Color coding for the wires is very basic.
I was last there in 2017 visiting my sister in Seattle and her distribution board looked like something out of the Army surplus store. Still, she had AFDD protection which is a thing nobody here had even heard of before 2016 and which still isn't being fitted by anybody today! That said, GFCI's are prevalent here and since 2016 have been needed on.... well... everything. Domestically speaking at least.
@@dsesuk I just checked, and apparently AFDD was added to the US code some years ago, but states and municipalities have been slow to implement it. There seem to be a number of complaints about them tripping unnecessarily, so some builders don't install them.. GFCI is still largely installed on outlets in selected branch circuits rather than in the breaker panel.
18:53 WOW - what a mess ! While I totally get the low current left, high current right - that's totally an electrical point of view - and technically doesn't matter. While a bog standard house is fine that way cos it's simple, this is not only far from simple but the poor labelling seems confusing/ambiguous ! It's really a case where I would have grouped by location rather than current. Are the east and west wings single storey ? Which circuit are the downstairs sockets on ? Are the lights/stairs/upstairs/hall or lights/stairs/upstairs hall ? If hall is downstairs, it should have come first to avoid confusion with a potential upstairs hallway. It may be all quite sensible on-site but without knowing the layout of the building - as a new to the place sparky would be, those labels are inadequate! It's one of those cases where labelling has been done by someone who knows everything - so they fail to label for the inexperienced - so easy done !
hat u/s light will light your face up beautifully - giving the consumer unit a clear view of your face. A lighting engineer would fit 2 lights behind you and either side of you so they lit the job up rather than your face and in such a way as to not cause black shadows to fall on the job while working.
I doubt that anyone working on the electrical installation would be relying on the lighting in the room. Safe isolation and all that nonsense would suggest that it would need to be switched off before you opened the consumer unit anyway!
Wago connectors usually, either in external enclosures or in the box trunking. The showers had 10mm cables, so external 60A screw junction boxes were used for those.
Am I missing something or is there no test carried out during an EICR that verifies neutral impedance? Yes we have end-to-ends on ring circuits but nothing I can see for radials. Also an end-to-end doesn't test to the front of the socket so won't catch a faulty receptacle.
Board change without a full test! Just shut your fingers in the door for similar pain! Since when was crossing your fingers part of a quality installation!
David, you absolutely crack me up!, did, becoming a stand up comedian ever cross your mind?? "Spider shag hole", loool, your work is excellent!, but it's your comments and demeanour that keep me watching!!!!
Why do UK sparks put main switches on right hand side of CU? Im UK spark but lived in oz for 5 years and we put on left hand side of CU. Plus i like the 2 pole main switch for main neutral aswell, something that oz still doesnt do yet.
Some makes have a left side isolator, MK and Crabtree's Starbreaker for example. It's more logical to be on the left I guess, but you're generally stuck with how they come out of the factory and this board was pre-assembled and pre-labelled with it all on the right. It could be reconfigured probably, but that would take valuable minutes! Interesting to hear of single pole isolators on that side of the world. Does the neutral just go straight to the bar then without being switched?
David, when you downgrade a breaker because the test results for that circuit are worrying, how does the next person who comes in know that? They might just think the guy before was an idiot and replace your 20 with a 32. I'm not a spark btw, just interested.
I would wonder why someone had done that. I would assume at first glance that there was either an issue with the circuit. Or thay someone had piggybacked 2 radials. I wouldn't be upping the mcb size on a pre-existing circuit without knowing all the circuit design information..i suspect other competent persons would be the same.
An Electrical Installation Certificate accompanies this CU change and will show the end-to-end resistances (if a ring), wiring CSA and the maximum recorded impedance for each circuit, so anyone viewing the paperwork later will be able to see a break in ring continuity was recorded, if the wiring thins down at any point or if the impedance was too high for a 32A protective device. If they don't have access to the paperwork, anyone worth their salt will be able to repeat the tests, get the same results and draw the same conclusions. If I were to arrive on an unfamiliar site with no access to the paperwork and I saw a socket circuit was on a 20A breaker, my assumption would be that someone has encountered an issue in the past and they've gone out of their way to then downgrade the circuit. 20A is plenty for, say, an upstairs socket circuit though, and we often install 20A radials on rewires with a separate 32A circuit then serving the likes of a kitchen/utility room. There would be no need to upgrade it from 20A to 32A unless the demand on that socket circuit is high and it is tripping under normal operation, but anyone undertaking an upgrade ought to be fully testing and inspecting that circuit to ensure it is fit for such a modification rather than undertaking it blindly.
@@dsesuk Many thanks David, it's good to see your level of professionalism and record keeping let's hope everyone else is as conscientious as you. Great work on your channel, please keep it going. Also your website is a mine of information.
@@millomweb Other than writing in big black lettering "DO NOT UPRATE MCB", there's not a lot else David can do. If the other guy/girl doesn't want to check things for themselves and uprates the MCB without reviewing the installation certificate or carrying out his/her own test, then on their head be it. David's documentation protects him against liability.
I had my board changed and it all works great, however I would still like to know if the house is wired ok... Should I book a sparky to come test it? or am I just wasting money?
A test and inspection should have been performed as part of the consumer unit change, and the accompanying certificate should show the results. Just because it isn't tripping doesn't mean there are no problems, and a lot of the big issues will only become problematic in the event of a fault. A circuit may be functional, but if there's no earth continuity, reversed polarity, undersized wiring or the RCD is fried, then you'll only find out about it when you go to make your breakfast one morning and flames come out of your ears when you touch the toaster. If you didn't get any paperwork with the CU change, then all bets are off. The point of that certificate is for the installer to accept the legal liability for the ongoing safety of the installation, so it's in their interest to ensure it is tested and confirmed as safe if they've put their name to it. If they haven't, then they'll deny all knowledge if your house burns down. If you have the paperwork, it should give a recommended re-test date of up to ten years after installation, if you don't have paperwork, then your home insurance may be invalidated as you can't prove the work was done competently and that the installation has been maintained.
An interesting question Tim. The retrofit ones I have put in (such as the one in my SPD video) run off a breaker, but the ones pre-installed in consumer units are wired directly off the main switch. I presume it is not required for Type-2 domestic SPD's like this, and that you only put in an MCB on a retrofit unit for ease of installation and to save shoehorning fat cables into the main switch.
The Armeg is great, I've had it a few years now. Even when you think you've got a screw good and tight with a nromal screwdriver, the Armeg will give you a bit extra! Mine was in a kit, so the blade can be quickly switched out. It cost over a ton from Elex for the full works.
Do I bollocks. I remember them saying when I bought it that it should be kept calibrated, but that isn't going to happen. A calibrated torque screwdriver is essential when working on aeroplane maintenance, but nobody is checking the tightness of your screws on a domestic consumer unit. If there's an electrical fire because of a loose connection on a board I recently installed, then I might get in trouble for not having a calibration cert, but I'll go with that risk.
David Savery Electrical Services it seems good so far I was a bit tight and only bought a half full box but will probably add to it ,only thing is the pz2 is not as slim as other makes
Out of interest, how much would it cost to have armoured cable connected to the fuse box? I would run it in the ground to the summer house so would just need the final connection and test to make sure it's good to go
You said you normally install a non-maintained emergency bulkhead in the consumer unit cupboard and if the customer wants a bit of light, they turn the switch off which in turn activates the emergency lighting. Wouldn't it be better to install maintained emergency bulkhead as the light given off will be of a greater luminosity compared with the light given off when running off the battery?
Hi Alvin. For most domestic broom cupboards I don't think it makes much odds. The nice thing about a non-maintained luminaire is that you can come from the board, through the switch and to the light making for a simple installation. If you wanted to use a switched line then there's the (minor) complication of running some three-core from the switch and an extra minute faffing about with the additional termination. One thing I like about the non-maintained way is that you can use the switch to test or cycle the battery every now and again, but Joe Homeowner isn't likely to bother with that I guess!
@@dsesuk But surely you could just install a 2 core and earth cable from the board to the luminarie (line, neutral, cpc), then another 2 core and earth cable from the luminarie to the switch (line, switched line and cpc)?
@@ashmanelectricalservices4318 Absolutely, you can do it that way. For speed and ease though, I prefer to come off the board, through the switch and to the light to keep it as quick and simple as I can. Usually, the client hasn't specified a light going in there, we just often do it as part of the job, so I want it to be as easy as possible!
Talking of low IR the other day after installing a couple of runs of MICC and getting readings of 235Meg and 267Meg (a pass) I still wasn't happy, so after applying a little heat (before RMXing pots) >499Meg much better. (flooded beer cellar, High humidity). The way I see it is if there is any leakage current that it will cause erosion of conductors over time. Have I got OCD?
@@dsesuk I would have done, only I had to finish the job and re-energise. Poxy modern electronic dispensing control units close solenoid valves on all beer lines without power (even just a brown-out), and have to be reset manually lol (utter shite). But I did pull myself a couple of pints afterwards. Well I had to check that everything was functioning correctly before the handover lol.
Hi david the diversity calculation for ovens is a bit hit and miss I think I fit alot of cookers and some Ovens you cant use it on so the maufactors say cus of special cleaning functions and other things. I have seen some installed to 13 amp plugs because they have used diversity and the plug has melted then when you call the manufacturer they say minimum 16 and a max 20 amp mcb. Also range cookers alot of maufactors now stating in instructions full electric range cookers over 16 kw to be installed to 32amp because they are getting returned because installers wont put them in the amount that trip because of large families using everything at once is crazy. Also some electric ranges state it's own rcd or rcbo needs to be present because it will cause nuseince tripping. What's your take on the calculation
Hi Greg. I think the calculation is nonsense. It works as a rule-of-thumb at the design stage, but apply it retroactively to a live installation and it doesn't add up. My own home on paper is over 200A and I'm on a 60A fuse. Doesn't help that I have three socket rings, but next door which has only one has a lower demand figure on paper even if they have the same number of physical outlets. In a property like this, I can only do so much to manage the demand that's already there. I didn't install all these showers and cookers, and I have no right to disconnect them, so I'll manage what I can and make the homeowner aware of the issue so they can make an informed decision on how they want to take things forward.
@@dsesuk glad to hear someone agrees lol I've had the conversation with a few people over cookers and diversity and they say just put it in it will be ok then when it trips the first thing they say is faulty cooker lol
Hello. Yes, ordinarily I would prefer to leave some expansion space, but with nineteen circuits already, this 20-way board was the largest I could find to fit the space. For additional spare ways, I would have had to look at installing a second board or forking out for a stack unit that would have been difficult to physically locate. If more than one additional circuit is required in the future, a secondary board would be an option; we can worry about that if the time ever comes!
Perhaps a stupid question, but I see the different colors for output phase conductors from rcbo, in an one phase system. Is that because initialy the circuits was designed with a three phase system in mind?
Hi Adrian. This was always a single phase installation, but wiring colours in the UK were red and black for phase/neutral until around 2005 when we harmonised with Europe for standard colours across the EU. Since then, we've been on brown and blue, but older installations have a mix of both of course. For this reason, we're required to place a two-colours label on the distribution board warning that wiring colours to two different standards are in use which is ridiculous as anyone who can't recognise what the colours are shouldn't be breaking out the screwdrivers! On three phase systems, we went from red, yellow, blue, black to brown, black, grey blue for L1, L2, L3 and neutral. I'm really not sure why we can't work as a species and have the same colouring system throughout the world!
@@Adrian-Carstea Yes, but there are so many differences worldwide both with colours and naming conventions. Here we've used 'phase', 'live' and 'line', the latter being current after the former terms have had their turn and fallen out of favour for whatever reason. Other countries use 'hot' too, but it all seems a little ridiculous when we're all generally talking about the same thing in the same-ish language!
I am a bit of a hager lover, but it's hard to get customers to see the added cost in quality as they say but a cheaper one will still get my power on 🤬
Normally I would be sceptical about a cheaper brand, but the feedback on the CP Fusebox stuff from other installers has been very positive. In this case, going down the Hager route would have added significantly to the cost with this many RCBO's, an SPD and such a large enclosure required.
I made a custom thumbnail for this one, but when I uploaded it RUclips selected this frame which makes me look like I'm getting zapped so I thought I'd keep it!
Why the hell would you have an isolator in the middle of nowhere ? 5:52 We have them at each end of the cable - which seems the obvious place to have them.
Goodness knows. We missed it on the original EICR although we knew there was a junction out there somewhere where the colours had been reversed. Nige found that by crawling under the bush, but why it's there and what the thought process behind its installation is have been lost to time!
@@dsesuk It'd be somewhat understandable if there was electrical socket there for elec lawn mower or something like that. But to break into an 'underground' cable at midpoint to fit a switch is pretty strange as ideally no breaks means much less risk of water ingress. Having said that, it was very dry & tidy in the box. As for how the wires got crossed - well, possibly even a bigger mystery !
Great install, very neat in my opinion. I'd like to see a gland for the T&E going into the Wiska box which I think you know :) The armoured has no shroud ? It's interesting to see how the job pans out when you do everything by the book, i.e EICR BEFORE the board change, getting another firm to install the isolator etc.. I don't want to sound like a bodger and I'm certainly not BUT how the hell do you win jobs and make money ??? All i all though I love your vids and your work is always thorough and neat.
Haha! I knew that bloody Wiska box would come up. It's missing the shroud because Nigel terminated the SWA and the silly sod forgot to put it on the cable. No matter, they're only aesthetic, and some people never install them as they can form a bit of a moisture trap. I agree about the gland for the T&E, I'd have put one on just for it to look better, or I'd have butted the Wiska up against the edge of the box trunking, but Nige didn't bother and it's not needed under here. To be honest, we don't do too many board changes, maybe only ten or so per year if that. When we do get the work, it's often part of a larger project such as a rewire, or it's for a partner firm such as a builder who knows our reputation and doesn't want to mess around. For Joe Public, we either win the work because we come recommended by their friends/family, or if they are shopping around, we come across better than our competitors even though we may not be cheaper. Board changes aren't much fun though, so we're happy to walk away if the client isn't willing to do it our way.
@@dsesuk hehe I saw you keep looking at it and prodding it while you were talking about the job and I could read your mind... If all else fails just blame Nigel ! :)) Still looked decent and cost effective.
There are ways and means, but it shouldn't be something I have to overcome on the day as the installer. If it's a 20-way board, there should be at least 20 ways, main earth, gas bond, water bond, lid tail and SPD.
I think that would be dodgy, the integrity of the "earth bar" could be compromised if the link to the earth bar was damaged / broken, perhaps leaving several circuits unprotected.
It's an SWA to the shed that previously poked into the old CU with no mechanical connection and without the sheathing being earthed. I would have preferred to terminate it onto the right side of the new enclosure, but I'd have had to holesaw in a 20mm hole and the angle of the thing might have been a little acute, so we terminated it onto a Wiska and earthed the sheath with a Wiska lock-nut. You know what retrofit's are like - cables coming in from all directions and not enough meat to work with on some!
@@dsesuk no it's nice I like it. Then you can go from the wiska to the CU in something more bendy. It looks really neat. I have an swa looking for entry by a door at 90 degrees to that double Hager I posted about that cost me ovefr £300, and I'm going to do it that way now, to get it through 90 degrees and relieve the angle. I like the look of it. Might use a bog standard steel adaptable box though... thanks for your reply.
It’s nice to have a mate to work with who is mad as a box of frogs as well, makes the day worth getting up for.
You are definitely my favorite alcoholic electrician on RUclips!
Thanks so much for the mention!
Thanks Jordan, keep up the good work, and congrats on the 4k subs!
David Savery Electrical Services thank you!
100% agree that a full full eicr should be done prior to a board change👍 makes life so simple when changing it
Totally agree with you doing a full eicr including insulation resistance before a board change it’d be mad not to surely, I only say this after a firm I worked for sent me to a board change , unknown to me and the lad with me no prior testing by the firm had been done just told to go and change the board and the lad put a new lighting circuit in the garage from the sub main.
The board was changed for a full rcbo board and turned on boom two lighting circuit trips in the main house, low and behold a previous sparks who wired the conservatory borrowed a neutral from the sockets and same thing upstairs , so wise advice my friend
Still catching up on your prodigious output.👍You are clearly on top of your game - enjoy the technical aspects of your videos and the humour is a welcome bonus.
I thought it was a very tidy looking job. Nice work.
Another great video, excellent work, as always!!
At least Fusebox are listening and making changes, other manufacturers probably wouldn't and think their product was perfect already...
Your absolutely 100% correct, I would never do a consumer change without a full EICR. I have seen other sparks do ring testing when the board is off. Once the board is removed it’s the electricians problem!!! I don’t think I’ve ever had any customer refuse, once you explain why it needs to be done. By the way board looks great👍🏼
Mad isn't it? You wouldn't catch me pulling a board off the wall without knowing I can get it back on and working again! What are they going to do when it's the end of the day and the lights are still off?? Check first, clear the faults, then do the change, and if the client doesn't want to do it that way, then I don't want them as a client!
I apply it at the full price, and my EICR pricing is charged per circuit so that larger installations with more circuits requiring more time are covered. Many installers quoting, say, £400 for a CU change will perform only a perfunctory inspection or will skip it altogether making the job a nice little earner, but most of that cost is supposed to be down to the time the inspection and testing ought to be taking. On a eight-circuit house, I might charge £140 for the EICR portion, but that comes out of the total cost of the board change. The physical work is then just the labour for the time it takes, the materials and the certification. Many will cram it all into one day, spend as little time as possible on the inspection/testing and walk out with a decent whack which is understandable from the business perspective, but runs the risk that something ain't gonna play nicely with an RCD.
MrBazza1975 I now charge a minimum of £165 per EICR or £40 per board & £20 per circuit. Whatever is the most expensive. EICR are so time consuming you need to be paid correctly to do them properly
I like this idea as I shoot myself in the foot by saying well I have to test all the electrics in the house afterwards. But I do do a quick ir test before ripping out old board. I will keep my gob shut from now on do full test then swop the board. There is a company called SBS from Stockport that does miniature rcbo's with no fly leads. They have a neutral busbar instead. Not sure what the enclosure is like as I was just adding a curcuit to an existing plastic one. Great video as per.
I went to a property with a service head that looked like that. Seemed as though the earth block on the cut out was just connected to the neutral and then a 4 mm earth wire connected to the lead sheath. Seemed as though the best thing to do was to put the 4 mm into the block on the side of the cut out and come off with a 16 mm main earth. Excellent videos thanks.
Legrand Austria used to do some terrific boxes back in the 80s... 24 ways and something like eight earth- and neutral-ways. Even considering the fact that the boards were likely to house a four-pole RCD and MCBs that break the neutral (two modules wide) that's incredibly tight! These jobbies were commonly used in flats, which, according to the Austrian regs, means only a water bond for the bathroom but you'd still have main earth plus water bond plus up to ten circuits Most people resorted to either double-lugging all the earths or using the neutral bar for earth as well. What a mess!
Great work. Great to see you bigging up other channels
TheVapingCripple 😢😢
@@NBundyElectrical You've got to work on your fuseboard presentation Nick 😂😂😂... Only joking, I'm sure it was a small oversight on David's part.
Lol cheers dude 🤞
Sorry Nick, I should have linked to you too as you have a CU change video!
Lol cheers Dave didn’t know if u had seen any of my videos 👍
I would like to point out, that as a property maintenance self employed whatever I am, I cant believe the amount of time you have to spare to video footage of your sector. With that said, I understand electricians have to pass tests and so on to keep up to regs and so on, but for the love of me you love blogging, I wish i could spend an hour a day to blog stuff! I love the passion but it keeps coming up on my youtube channel.
D. Really good point on IR testing, I shudder when the dreaded 0.03 M ohm (or there abouts) appears on the MFT. We're left scratching your head thinking 'what accessory have I missed?' Or 'is there some florescent leaking to earth'.
From what I've seen of your work, cable dressing is not something you need be concerned about! Keep up the good work.
Oh, and Nigel, go easy on the 'Hamsters!'
Nice to see the #E5 mention 😊
We had one yesterday Shaun, passed IR at 250V with 17MOhm, but a failure at 500V. Took us a while to track down the two extension leads with SPD's hidden behind furniture even though we suspected that's what we were looking for! IR is a royal pain in the arse, but I'm not going to swap out a board without knowing the new one ins't likely to trip off and cause me a headache! Also, I was wrong about hamsters, it turns out that Nigel likes mice or voles.
@@dsesuk You truly do make me smile in a what is sometimes seemingly a cesspit industry with clients that really don't have a clue the extent we go to to help them out! As for Nigel, I have informed my contact at the RSPCA!🤣
Cracks me up watching these videos, guys of his trolley. Deserves way more subs.
Thanks..... I think....
Please keep your excellent and informative vid's coming David. Much appreciated.
I brought a double hager the other day without checking the price first, I’ve now had to sell one of my kids and the car to pay for it 😢
N Bundy Electrical Had a lad on our firm fit one as he needed two boards and thought it was cheaper to do a stacker...the boss got the invoice from the wholesaler and had a shit fit 🤣
Ouch. One of those over the counter things where the invoice paperwork lands later huh?
Yeah, it would have been cheaper to get 2 boards and bolt them together 😢 another good video Dave, I’ve got a max demand issue and after watching u and cjr it’s solved my problem 👌
I bought one too. Dual ie stacked board, with two lines of din rail in if that's what you mean. It was about £300 luckily the job it's for has been delayed it took 6 weeks to arrive at CEF!!! Love your videos by the way, you're fantastic at presentation, I'm shit at it, I can't remember the words I want to say ever! You're also easy on the eye which helps.
Hi David, just wanted to let you know not only do I find your Videos entertaining but full of VERY useful information and I just wanted to say a BIG thanks for both, hope you can keep on with the good work, to you Nigel and your family stay safe and healthy and maybe wealthy :-) thanks.
Thanks Keith. Not sure we'll ever be wealthy!
Great vid as usual... i completely agree with you on carrying out a ICR or at least insulation test on circuits, prior to ccu replacement, we loose a few jobs because of that but hey at least we dont get callbacks or unexpected costs that upset the client....
Yeah, you don't want to be that guy who is screwing the cover on at 6PM only to find the RCD trips as soon as it's clicked on.
Nice one David miss the old hose bashing work & banter
Hager sell standard boards the same as that fuse box with 20 odd ways and a main switch. Those dual level boards also come with just a switch so you can use RCBO’s. That cef price is nuts. I pay at least half that at my cef. Great video as ever David.
I went in to CEF on a Saturday morning for a chat and to browse the catalogues, but we couldn't find another enclosure that quite fitted the bill with 20 ways and SPD which is why I looked elsewhere and ordered online (something I don't often do a I prefer to source locally). Cities weren't able to find me a stack Hager board without the RCD's, but that may just be them being crap. Empty Hager enclosures with SPD are still a lot pricier than this which came in at under a ton with VAT. The enclosure and RCBO costs on this CP stuff shaved three figures off the bill which was already (relatively) high from the fault finding, the circuits that needed extending and the time it took to get this replacement on the wall.
I thought it was very neat for the amount of extending and jigging about you had to do! I like the amount of room you have between the top of the RCBO's and the earth/neutral bar to run cables which some of the bigger brands just dont give you! Top job!
That was a (very) long day. Retrofit boards can be a proper pain when cables are coming in from all directions which is why I was never happy that Hager and Schneider brought out Amendment 3 boards without side or bottom knock-outs.
Always, Always reminds me of the weather man when he's talking. Great video many thanks...
that squeking noise is the bellows in the gas meter moveing back and forth when in operation
Good to see this follow up. Looked a quality job to me. That brother labeling macgine is great.
The Brother E550W is a must-have. A cracking bit o' kit!
I get by with my PTE300VP... couldn't justify the extra £100 for the PTE550WVP www.toolstation.com/search?q=Printer
With all your flush customers David, you ought to try Crabtree Starbreaker boards with the miniature RCBOs ... no fannying about with busbars ...😆 Rep says they are releasing single module combined RCBO/AFDD later in the year too (if that’s your thing)!
I have fitted a few Starbreakers, and jolly nice boards they are too, if a little on the expensive side. I took a look at their AFDD in a video a year ago and was told then that single module AFDD/RCBO units were on the horizon. Hager get the best press because they are simply everywhere - walk into Cities, Denamns or Eddies and you know they have the enclosures and protective devices, and if they're missing something then the branch up the road will have it.
Thanks for the shout out David!! Another epic video - Amazing to watch!
Epic *and* amazing?? Which video did you watch??!
Escape from Stratford on Avon? Not easy, especially with the bogof traffic lights on Birmingham Road... .
That install is a lot neater than some boards
out there when you take the cover off the cables eap out at you :-)
Great video Dave. CU looked great and yes we can't always go OCD on the finish. Sometimes its time constraints and best endeavours. ......
There's a balance between providing something photogenic and the time on site the client is prepared to pay you for. Most customers are never going to look under the bonnet, so taking the time to trim the wires to something you could set your watch by isn't worth the effort. So long as you're leaving it in a state where the next guy can see circuit x goes into neutral bar position x and earth bar position x, you should be alright!
Was sock is also Cornish for a lesser spotted dogfish.
I think you've made a great job of that installation, hope you don't get called back for nuisance tripping on the 19 RCBO's you've installed.
" I feel old"
" You look old"
With friends like that who needs enemies 😂😂😂
I've worked in houses where fusebox has been immaculate but rest of wiring been totally shit, best with a good honest job done correctly throughout rather than photo opportunity for instagram generation, keep up the good work😆
Same, I've also worked in older houses where the 1970s wiring was excellent. Multiple rings with washing machine, boiler, dryer all back to the board on separate circuits which has never had a fuse blow in 40 years! Really tidy, all Wylex and MK gear, 2 separate fuse boxes one below the other, each with main switch in each Wylex board replaced with RCD. Split load 40 years ago!
SBS Trade Sales, Compact RCBO's with a great range, made up to order, service 100% 👍
Understairs / electrics cupboard light I'd wire in before the consumer unit - along with a 13A socket - so you have power & light locally with the rest of the property in darkness.
You can't wire in *before* the consumer unit without pushing everything through another consumer unit.
On an RCBO board, if the whole property is in darkness, the whole supply has gone and having something "before" or in addition to the main CU wouldn't be of any use anyway.
I think the battery backed up bulkhead light is generally the best bet, with a standard light switched off the closest lighting circuit if it's a general use cupboard.
@@mowcius There are people less capable than myself. I'm just sayin' what I'd do.
30 years ago; maybe. Battery technology has come a long way since then
Totally agree with the EICR before any board change
Asking for trouble if you don't, after all, a legitimate installer would be providing a certificate for the ongoing safety of the installation following their change of the protective devices, so what are they going to do if they pull the old board off and then find there's a ring break, undersized wiring or a shite IR??!
@@dsesuk then trying to explain the cock up to the customer 🤣🤣, I also lose some jobs as I always say get a condition report done first
@@dsesuk any way nice job on the DB and does look neat
Your videos are class,great work ,great descriptions and explanations and hilarious also. "Spider shag pad" 😂😂😂
Is that my house you're talking about ;)
Nice... discussion point, can you put a PIR light in the same cupboards as the gas meter? If there is a leak / gas build up then opening the door would action the light coming on, is this a problem? Saw the argument on insta the other day...
Interesting point. Can't say I considered it. I don't believe there's anything against selecting electrics for a cupboard containing gas equipment though, but I might be wrong. Hopefully, being a LED light, there won't be any switching current big enough to cause arcing.
I find that people are under the misconception that the a new consumer board installation will be the answer to all their wiring problems. An eirc would certainly put doubts about the condition of the wiring into perspective.
How many times have we found broken rings or circuits with oversized MCB ratings?
I'm liking the CP fuseboard? Mammoth number of circuits. Would be interesting to know why so many for a normal dwelling, unless it's a mansion. Being Stratford upon Avon, I wouldn't be surprised.
Great video.
It's a heavily extended house, the original building having a single storey wing off the rear, then another single storey section extending it and jutting off it at 90 degrees as a second wing making it U-shaped. The circuit count is more down to the illogical electrical installation performed by (presumably) the builder when the extension work was done about 15 years ago. There are seven circuits just for lighting which are split all over the place - two downstairs rooms each have a whole circuit to themselves for example. Had it been properly designed, there would have been fewer circuits more logically laid out.
@@dsesuk phew!!!! Rather you than me. An even better reason, (should any doubt) for an eicr prior to board change. Can't even imagine the possibilities of it going tits if you hadn't. Love it mate👍🏽
Great work David.Keep testing and sleep sound.
Thanks Shaun.
Glad to see you are feeling better
CAPTIVE SCREWS - hate the bloody things ! Had too may fall out and roll down the drain - so I take screws out fully by practice and put them somewhere safe !
Should have the half turn locking system much like the plastic boxes had.
@@glynowen1349 Stuz fasteners!
Let me find the correct spelling !
Dzus fasteners !
Never come across a switchboard manufacturer yet that has the label sheets sorted. All seem to stick a load of guff on there that you don't need.
There's nothing on this one for EV charging, Solar PV or for homes with cellars or attic conversions (it's just sockets/lights up/down). If they cleared the useless guff and picked either text or pictorial labels, they could include a much larger range and save me some Brother tape!
@@dsesuk Agreed. Same with the Earth and Neutral bars they all seem to score a miss on that one too. The only time I have come across really well thought out and useful bars is on Bremca boards but they are commercial industrial. The title designer, these days, seems to get handed out to any knob with a penchant for crayoning outside the lines rather than thinking about the end goal.
Even the BG boards have more useful labels supplied. I like BG boards lol.. Must be the only one 😂
Hi Dave, when people find open ends on a ring or hi resistance, is it still not a risk swapping out the 32amp mcb for a 20amp? I get the 20 mcb will protect the cable, but what about shock or fire hazards? Thank you.
Bloody love you twos humour. I am fitting a CPFusebox on my next board job as they look good boards for the price point.👍
It was massively cheaper than the Hager route. Normally, I'd be put off by a price that much lower, but I'm seeing a lot of positive feedback on Twitter about CP Fusebox, so there's gotta be something in it.
Great video David, neat enough , especially stuck in a cupboard for half a day, all the extra neat ones you see are fitted in a empty garage at head height with 4 circuits on , so a fair bit easier to deal with, keep up the good work
I think it's fair enough about doing your test on one day and then come back for the consumer unit change on another day. You know where you stand and probably end up saving time on the proper day. Makes sense but I can see how some customers might get miffed with two days off - better that than no lecky randomly a few days later. Great job with vid and leck 👍
It would be difficult anyway on an installation of this size, but I used to do smaller installations in a single day, and got caught once where I was still on site at 7PM, it was getting dark and the homeowner wanted to get on with cooking his dinner! If I'm going to do the job, then I want to clear the unknowns and have a straightforward time of it!
@@dsesuk Yeah, I guess on smaller / simpler properties it might be frowned upon, but like you say, bigger ones are fair enough. I think if any trade could have a proper look round or test, the job on the day could be made more foreseeable and all that! Fyi watched it to the end, you do make I chuckle. Enjoy your beer 👍
I find these videos interesting because UK household wiring is quite different from the US. The different voltage may be one reason for more safeguards in the consumer panel, and it all seems both more complex yet compact.
UK electricians would have a heart attack in the US. While there is a national electrical code here, not all states and municipalities subscribe to it. My state still allows homeowners to do their own wiring, subject to inspection. However, the qualifications for a building inspector vary widely, and my previous home had some weird arrangements. I know, because I did a lot of it myself! Usually, the only circuits protected from ground faults are those for kitchen or bathroom outlets. Color coding for the wires is very basic.
I was last there in 2017 visiting my sister in Seattle and her distribution board looked like something out of the Army surplus store. Still, she had AFDD protection which is a thing nobody here had even heard of before 2016 and which still isn't being fitted by anybody today! That said, GFCI's are prevalent here and since 2016 have been needed on.... well... everything. Domestically speaking at least.
@@dsesuk I just checked, and apparently AFDD was added to the US code some years ago, but states and municipalities have been slow to implement it. There seem to be a number of complaints about them tripping unnecessarily, so some builders don't install them.. GFCI is still largely installed on outlets in selected branch circuits rather than in the breaker panel.
18:53 WOW - what a mess ! While I totally get the low current left, high current right - that's totally an electrical point of view - and technically doesn't matter. While a bog standard house is fine that way cos it's simple, this is not only far from simple but the poor labelling seems confusing/ambiguous ! It's really a case where I would have grouped by location rather than current. Are the east and west wings single storey ? Which circuit are the downstairs sockets on ? Are the lights/stairs/upstairs/hall or lights/stairs/upstairs hall ? If hall is downstairs, it should have come first to avoid confusion with a potential upstairs hallway. It may be all quite sensible on-site but without knowing the layout of the building - as a new to the place sparky would be, those labels are inadequate! It's one of those cases where labelling has been done by someone who knows everything - so they fail to label for the inexperienced - so easy done !
It's a U-shaped building, hence the 'wings', single storey apart from the middle section which has an upstairs.
hat u/s light will light your face up beautifully - giving the consumer unit a clear view of your face. A lighting engineer would fit 2 lights behind you and either side of you so they lit the job up rather than your face and in such a way as to not cause black shadows to fall on the job while working.
I doubt that anyone working on the electrical installation would be relying on the lighting in the room.
Safe isolation and all that nonsense would suggest that it would need to be switched off before you opened the consumer unit anyway!
Great vid ta. How do you normally extend the cables when they’re too short?
Wago connectors usually, either in external enclosures or in the box trunking. The showers had 10mm cables, so external 60A screw junction boxes were used for those.
Cheers David, always good to here other people’s methods
Great video as always David!
When will a manufacture make a board with twin busbars for rcbo boards. They could have done it years back with a neutral link through mcbs.
SBS have such an offering Tyson. There's a later video of mine showing such.
Am I missing something or is there no test carried out during an EICR that verifies neutral impedance? Yes we have end-to-ends on ring circuits but nothing I can see for radials. Also an end-to-end doesn't test to the front of the socket so won't catch a faulty receptacle.
Board change without a full test! Just shut your fingers in the door for similar pain! Since when was crossing your fingers part of a quality installation!
And yet, many installers rely on the benevolence of the ol' luck fairy with their board changes!
Spider shag hole sums up every fecking room in my house, and my bloody car...
@Dark Dream Yes but my cats are bone lazy...
Lovely job, what was the magnet to keep the lid open?
Hey Dave, where did you get that magnet to hold open the consumer unit lid? Brilliant idea!
It's my joist magnet old chap, as found in this affiliate link: amzn.to/2VCboTZ
Great video David AND Nigel!.😂👍
...maybe not so Nigel....
David, you absolutely crack me up!, did, becoming a stand up comedian ever cross your mind?? "Spider shag hole", loool, your work is excellent!, but it's your comments and demeanour that keep me watching!!!!
Thanks Zak, but I think I'd better stick with my day job and see if I can master that before moving on to anything new!
Why do UK sparks put main switches on right hand side of CU? Im UK spark but lived in oz for 5 years and we put on left hand side of CU. Plus i like the 2 pole main switch for main neutral aswell, something that oz still doesnt do yet.
Some makes have a left side isolator, MK and Crabtree's Starbreaker for example. It's more logical to be on the left I guess, but you're generally stuck with how they come out of the factory and this board was pre-assembled and pre-labelled with it all on the right. It could be reconfigured probably, but that would take valuable minutes! Interesting to hear of single pole isolators on that side of the world. Does the neutral just go straight to the bar then without being switched?
David, when you downgrade a breaker because the test results for that circuit are worrying, how does the next person who comes in know that? They might just think the guy before was an idiot and replace your 20 with a 32. I'm not a spark btw, just interested.
I would wonder why someone had done that. I would assume at first glance that there was either an issue with the circuit. Or thay someone had piggybacked 2 radials. I wouldn't be upping the mcb size on a pre-existing circuit without knowing all the circuit design information..i suspect other competent persons would be the same.
An Electrical Installation Certificate accompanies this CU change and will show the end-to-end resistances (if a ring), wiring CSA and the maximum recorded impedance for each circuit, so anyone viewing the paperwork later will be able to see a break in ring continuity was recorded, if the wiring thins down at any point or if the impedance was too high for a 32A protective device. If they don't have access to the paperwork, anyone worth their salt will be able to repeat the tests, get the same results and draw the same conclusions. If I were to arrive on an unfamiliar site with no access to the paperwork and I saw a socket circuit was on a 20A breaker, my assumption would be that someone has encountered an issue in the past and they've gone out of their way to then downgrade the circuit. 20A is plenty for, say, an upstairs socket circuit though, and we often install 20A radials on rewires with a separate 32A circuit then serving the likes of a kitchen/utility room. There would be no need to upgrade it from 20A to 32A unless the demand on that socket circuit is high and it is tripping under normal operation, but anyone undertaking an upgrade ought to be fully testing and inspecting that circuit to ensure it is fit for such a modification rather than undertaking it blindly.
@@dsesuk Many thanks David, it's good to see your level of professionalism and record keeping let's hope everyone else is as conscientious as you.
Great work on your channel, please keep it going. Also your website is a mine of information.
@@dsesuk "your assumption..." That's the mistake. Don't assume anything in this game !
@@millomweb Other than writing in big black lettering "DO NOT UPRATE MCB", there's not a lot else David can do. If the other guy/girl doesn't want to check things for themselves and uprates the MCB without reviewing the installation certificate or carrying out his/her own test, then on their head be it. David's documentation protects him against liability.
Great video as usual, will give this board a try out next
Just been in my local CEF today to find them on the shelves!
I had my board changed and it all works great, however I would still like to know if the house is wired ok... Should I book a sparky to come test it? or am I just wasting money?
A test and inspection should have been performed as part of the consumer unit change, and the accompanying certificate should show the results. Just because it isn't tripping doesn't mean there are no problems, and a lot of the big issues will only become problematic in the event of a fault. A circuit may be functional, but if there's no earth continuity, reversed polarity, undersized wiring or the RCD is fried, then you'll only find out about it when you go to make your breakfast one morning and flames come out of your ears when you touch the toaster. If you didn't get any paperwork with the CU change, then all bets are off. The point of that certificate is for the installer to accept the legal liability for the ongoing safety of the installation, so it's in their interest to ensure it is tested and confirmed as safe if they've put their name to it. If they haven't, then they'll deny all knowledge if your house burns down. If you have the paperwork, it should give a recommended re-test date of up to ten years after installation, if you don't have paperwork, then your home insurance may be invalidated as you can't prove the work was done competently and that the installation has been maintained.
Does your SPD require overcurrent protection? Question from New Zealand
Its depends on the manufacturer. Big boy TPN panel boards from Schneider I have fitted 100A MCCB's.
An interesting question Tim. The retrofit ones I have put in (such as the one in my SPD video) run off a breaker, but the ones pre-installed in consumer units are wired directly off the main switch. I presume it is not required for Type-2 domestic SPD's like this, and that you only put in an MCB on a retrofit unit for ease of installation and to save shoehorning fat cables into the main switch.
Dave as my long loss grampy (departed 1983) would say a blind man would love to see it.
PS BS3036 would have the board in his day.
It amazes me how many 3036 boards are still out there. Wylex must have made a mint in the 1970's and 1980's.
David the consumer unit looked neat enough 👍🏻 I notice you have an armeg torque driver (maximum 6 nm ) how do you find it ?
The Armeg is great, I've had it a few years now. Even when you think you've got a screw good and tight with a nromal screwdriver, the Armeg will give you a bit extra! Mine was in a kit, so the blade can be quickly switched out. It cost over a ton from Elex for the full works.
@@dsesuk Do you have it calibrated?
Do I bollocks. I remember them saying when I bought it that it should be kept calibrated, but that isn't going to happen. A calibrated torque screwdriver is essential when working on aeroplane maintenance, but nobody is checking the tightness of your screws on a domestic consumer unit. If there's an electrical fire because of a loose connection on a board I recently installed, then I might get in trouble for not having a calibration cert, but I'll go with that risk.
David Savery Electrical Services it seems good so far I was a bit tight and only bought a half full box but will probably add to it ,only thing is the pz2 is not as slim as other makes
@@darenvitaelectrical5310 I had to strip some of the insulation of mine so that the driver tip could fully be inserted into RCBO's.
Out of interest, how much would it cost to have armoured cable connected to the fuse box? I would run it in the ground to the summer house so would just need the final connection and test to make sure it's good to go
You said you normally install a non-maintained emergency bulkhead in the consumer unit cupboard and if the customer wants a bit of light, they turn the switch off which in turn activates the emergency lighting. Wouldn't it be better to install maintained emergency bulkhead as the light given off will be of a greater luminosity compared with the light given off when running off the battery?
Hi Alvin. For most domestic broom cupboards I don't think it makes much odds. The nice thing about a non-maintained luminaire is that you can come from the board, through the switch and to the light making for a simple installation. If you wanted to use a switched line then there's the (minor) complication of running some three-core from the switch and an extra minute faffing about with the additional termination. One thing I like about the non-maintained way is that you can use the switch to test or cycle the battery every now and again, but Joe Homeowner isn't likely to bother with that I guess!
@@dsesuk But surely you could just install a 2 core and earth cable from the board to the luminarie (line, neutral, cpc), then another 2 core and earth cable from the luminarie to the switch (line, switched line and cpc)?
@@ashmanelectricalservices4318 Absolutely, you can do it that way. For speed and ease though, I prefer to come off the board, through the switch and to the light to keep it as quick and simple as I can. Usually, the client hasn't specified a light going in there, we just often do it as part of the job, so I want it to be as easy as possible!
Talking of low IR the other day after installing a couple of runs of MICC and getting readings of 235Meg and 267Meg (a pass) I still wasn't happy, so after applying a little heat (before RMXing pots) >499Meg much better. (flooded beer cellar, High humidity). The way I see it is if there is any leakage current that it will cause erosion of conductors over time. Have I got OCD?
Haha! I'd have taken the 235M and moved on upstairs for a pint!
@@dsesuk I would have done, only I had to finish the job and re-energise. Poxy modern electronic dispensing control units close solenoid valves on all beer lines without power (even just a brown-out), and have to be reset manually lol (utter shite). But I did pull myself a couple of pints afterwards. Well I had to check that everything was functioning correctly before the handover lol.
I salute your diligence sir!
Hi david the diversity calculation for ovens is a bit hit and miss I think I fit alot of cookers and some
Ovens you cant use it on so the maufactors say cus of special cleaning functions and other things. I have seen some installed to 13 amp plugs because they have used diversity and the plug has melted then when you call the manufacturer they say minimum 16 and a max 20 amp mcb. Also range cookers alot of maufactors now stating in instructions full electric range cookers over 16 kw to be installed to 32amp because they are getting returned because installers wont put them in the amount that trip because of large families using everything at once is crazy. Also some electric ranges state it's own rcd or rcbo needs to be present because it will cause nuseince tripping. What's your take on the calculation
Hi Greg. I think the calculation is nonsense. It works as a rule-of-thumb at the design stage, but apply it retroactively to a live installation and it doesn't add up. My own home on paper is over 200A and I'm on a 60A fuse. Doesn't help that I have three socket rings, but next door which has only one has a lower demand figure on paper even if they have the same number of physical outlets. In a property like this, I can only do so much to manage the demand that's already there. I didn't install all these showers and cookers, and I have no right to disconnect them, so I'll manage what I can and make the homeowner aware of the issue so they can make an informed decision on how they want to take things forward.
@@dsesuk glad to hear someone agrees lol I've had the conversation with a few people over cookers and diversity and they say just put it in it will be ok then when it trips the first thing they say is faulty cooker lol
"probably not my neatest job" - I would love to see your neat jobs, 'cos I think the cables around my office would give you heart failure.
Hey David, didnt u guys need some reserve for futher installations? We do this here in Germany.
But also a great job
Hello. Yes, ordinarily I would prefer to leave some expansion space, but with nineteen circuits already, this 20-way board was the largest I could find to fit the space. For additional spare ways, I would have had to look at installing a second board or forking out for a stack unit that would have been difficult to physically locate. If more than one additional circuit is required in the future, a secondary board would be an option; we can worry about that if the time ever comes!
Nice work mate I'd be proud of that.
Type AC are not used at all in Europe from the conversation i had with my Wylex rep last month.
It certainly sounds like we're behind the curve here.
Someone noticed a long time ago. My board is probably 20 years old and appears to have a type a.
Good job again. Well done and great video.
I'll never look at a Hamster the same way again! 😂
Well, look on the bright-side - at least it's not escalated to hedgehogs.
Wait!! For a second I thought you was wearing a McDonald's hat 😂
He is 🤣
Perhaps a stupid question, but I see the different colors for output phase conductors from rcbo, in an one phase system. Is that because initialy the circuits was designed with a three phase system in mind?
Hi Adrian. This was always a single phase installation, but wiring colours in the UK were red and black for phase/neutral until around 2005 when we harmonised with Europe for standard colours across the EU. Since then, we've been on brown and blue, but older installations have a mix of both of course. For this reason, we're required to place a two-colours label on the distribution board warning that wiring colours to two different standards are in use which is ridiculous as anyone who can't recognise what the colours are shouldn't be breaking out the screwdrivers! On three phase systems, we went from red, yellow, blue, black to brown, black, grey blue for L1, L2, L3 and neutral. I'm really not sure why we can't work as a species and have the same colouring system throughout the world!
I see now, thanks. As for the using all of us the same colors, common standards are meant to achieve that, don't they?
@@Adrian-Carstea Yes, but there are so many differences worldwide both with colours and naming conventions. Here we've used 'phase', 'live' and 'line', the latter being current after the former terms have had their turn and fallen out of favour for whatever reason. Other countries use 'hot' too, but it all seems a little ridiculous when we're all generally talking about the same thing in the same-ish language!
I am a bit of a hager lover, but it's hard to get customers to see the added cost in quality as they say but a cheaper one will still get my power on 🤬
Normally I would be sceptical about a cheaper brand, but the feedback on the CP Fusebox stuff from other installers has been very positive. In this case, going down the Hager route would have added significantly to the cost with this many RCBO's, an SPD and such a large enclosure required.
OCD on that isolator switch is crooked inside the box
You should run a caption competition for the thumbnail photo for this video. Any suggestions?
I made a custom thumbnail for this one, but when I uploaded it RUclips selected this frame which makes me look like I'm getting zapped so I thought I'd keep it!
David does sound a bit like Dr Ashens I think.
Regarding testing of new 18th ed C.U. with type A mcbo is your current MFT able to carry out this test?
Yes, both my Metrel MI3100S and my TIS MFT Pro support Type-A RCD testing.
How much are those rcbos a pop? Must be a grand worth of rcbos.
#Borrowed Neutrals' sounds like a brilliant band name...
Or maybe an Electrician's bar?
Superb job sir.well done.
Why the hell would you have an isolator in the middle of nowhere ? 5:52 We have them at each end of the cable - which seems the obvious place to have them.
Goodness knows. We missed it on the original EICR although we knew there was a junction out there somewhere where the colours had been reversed. Nige found that by crawling under the bush, but why it's there and what the thought process behind its installation is have been lost to time!
@@dsesuk It'd be somewhat understandable if there was electrical socket there for elec lawn mower or something like that. But to break into an 'underground' cable at midpoint to fit a switch is pretty strange as ideally no breaks means much less risk of water ingress. Having said that, it was very dry & tidy in the box. As for how the wires got crossed - well, possibly even a bigger mystery !
Looks neat enough for me m8, must of been a busy day changing that.
That was a very long and very uncomfortable day. It took hours afterwards to unfold myself from that cramped cupboard!
You'd think electricians who spent their lives in broom cupboards would have head torches.
For some reason, I never got on with head torches.
Great install, very neat in my opinion. I'd like to see a gland for the T&E going into the Wiska box which I think you know :) The armoured has no shroud ? It's interesting to see how the job pans out when you do everything by the book, i.e EICR BEFORE the board change, getting another firm to install the isolator etc.. I don't want to sound like a bodger and I'm certainly not BUT how the hell do you win jobs and make money ??? All i all though I love your vids and your work is always thorough and neat.
Haha! I knew that bloody Wiska box would come up. It's missing the shroud because Nigel terminated the SWA and the silly sod forgot to put it on the cable. No matter, they're only aesthetic, and some people never install them as they can form a bit of a moisture trap. I agree about the gland for the T&E, I'd have put one on just for it to look better, or I'd have butted the Wiska up against the edge of the box trunking, but Nige didn't bother and it's not needed under here. To be honest, we don't do too many board changes, maybe only ten or so per year if that. When we do get the work, it's often part of a larger project such as a rewire, or it's for a partner firm such as a builder who knows our reputation and doesn't want to mess around. For Joe Public, we either win the work because we come recommended by their friends/family, or if they are shopping around, we come across better than our competitors even though we may not be cheaper. Board changes aren't much fun though, so we're happy to walk away if the client isn't willing to do it our way.
@@dsesuk hehe I saw you keep looking at it and prodding it while you were talking about the job and I could read your mind... If all else fails just blame Nigel ! :)) Still looked decent and cost effective.
Wtf! Nigel exterior shot-long hair! Nigel interior shot-skin head!!! Continuity david!!!!!🤣🤣🤣🤣👍😂great vid such fun and spreading the channel love. 👊
There must have been a full moon when we were there at Easter looking at that isolator as NIge had gone full werewolf.
Moonlighting at Mc Donald’s, times must be tough lol
He wires their burgers up.
Maybe if its tight in the db put a earth bar next to it? Not the best but might give you abit more space.
There are ways and means, but it shouldn't be something I have to overcome on the day as the installer. If it's a 20-way board, there should be at least 20 ways, main earth, gas bond, water bond, lid tail and SPD.
@@dsesuk yeah it does twist your tits when you have to sort out manufacturers dickheadness.
I think that would be dodgy, the integrity of the "earth bar" could be compromised if the link to the earth bar was damaged / broken, perhaps leaving several circuits unprotected.
)what was that wiska box with (swa? going into it on the rhs of the board?
It's an SWA to the shed that previously poked into the old CU with no mechanical connection and without the sheathing being earthed. I would have preferred to terminate it onto the right side of the new enclosure, but I'd have had to holesaw in a 20mm hole and the angle of the thing might have been a little acute, so we terminated it onto a Wiska and earthed the sheath with a Wiska lock-nut. You know what retrofit's are like - cables coming in from all directions and not enough meat to work with on some!
@@dsesuk no it's nice I like it. Then you can go from the wiska to the CU in something more bendy. It looks really neat. I have an swa looking for entry by a door at 90 degrees to that double Hager I posted about that cost me ovefr £300, and I'm going to do it that way now, to get it through 90 degrees and relieve the angle. I like the look of it. Might use a bog standard steel adaptable box though... thanks for your reply.
"Spider's shag hole" - lmao!
Great video as always.
Thanks Shawn.
Why do they still use the term "fuseboard" there's no fuses anymore,except the consumer's service fuse..!
I guess it's easier to say than "circuit breaker, residual current device, main isolator and surge suppressor board"
Why would anybody put an isolation switch under a hedge? I hope the weather sealing is effective.
We shall never know for sure what was going through the head of that past installer! Maybe it tee'd off to something there?
Needed something to join the cables? Or wanted a safe distance to isolate 😂
Audio levels were... set to silent mouse?
I will never get the hang of the audio. At least this time it came out of both speakers, a couple of vids ago the left channel was missing entirely!
@@dsesuk That one had me checking my equipment as I thought it had gone wonky!