WTF Happened in the Bronze Age Collapse? (This Video Broke Me) DOCUMENTARY
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- Опубликовано: 4 июн 2024
- A deep dive into the explanation behind the Bronze Age Collapse! You can immerse yourself in the era with Total War Pharaoh: play.totalwar.com/Invicta
When I started this documentary, it was my intent to produce a succinct recap of why the Bronze Age Collapsed. However as I began to dig it proved not only difficult to provide a cohesive narrative but also to tie together a web of potential factors which themselves contained many inconsistencies. I had a crisis and couldn't produce the documentary without seriously compromizing the content. This ultimately led me to decide to entirely ditch our usual RUclips video conventions and just present the raw academic papers to you. I hope this pulling back of the curtain proves educational on both the topic of the Bronze Age Collapse and the broader idea of critical thinking.
In this video we cover the following topics. An intro to the Bronze Age Collapse, the claims of destruction of the Bronze Age, the Sea Peoples invasions, the fall of the major powers, and the idea of a total systems collapse.
Sources:
BRONZE AGE
1177 BC: The Year Civilization Collapsed (www.barnesandnoble.com/w/1177...)
Crisis in Context: The End of the Late Bronze Age in the Eastern Mediterranean (www.jstor.org/stable/10.3764/...)
Tin Trade Routes of the Bronze Age: New evidence and new techniques aid in the study of metal sources of the ancient world (www.jstor.org/stable/27843879)
LEVEL OF DESTRUCTION
The Fall of the Bronze Age and the Destruction that Wasn’t By Jesse Millek (www.academia.edu/93497310/The...)
SEA PEOPLES
The ‘Sea Peoples’ in Primary Sources (www.researchgate.net/publicat...)
Understanding Collapse: Ancient History and Modern Myths (www.cambridge.org/core/books/...)
Ancient DNA sheds light on the genetic origins of early Iron Age Philistines (www.science.org/doi/10.1126/s...)
CLIMATE CHANGE
The influence of climatic change on the Late Bronze Age Collapse and the Greek Dark Ages (www.researchgate.net/publicat...)
Climate and the Late Bronze Collapse: New Evidence from the Southern Levant (www.academia.edu/6053886/D_La...)
MYCENAEANS
THE MYCENAEAN PALATIAL ECONOMY: MAKING THE MOST OF THE GAPS IN THE EVIDENCE: (www.cambridge.org/core/servic...)
Demographic and Domestic Economic Change in Early Greece: Factors of Supply and Demand Sarah C. Murray (www.cambridge.org/core/books/...)
HITTITES
Hittite Water Works: (www.academia.edu/39720738/Hit...)
Severe multi-year drought coincident with Hittite collapse around 1198-1196 BC (www.researchgate.net/publicat...)
From Hattusa to Carchemish: The Latest on Hittite History (www.researchgate.net/publicat...)
NEW KINGDOM EGYPT
State and Economy in Ancient Egypt: Fiscal Vocabulary of the New Kingdom (www.academia.edu/56869090/Sta...)
The King's Privy Purse During the New Kingdom: An Examination of INW (www.jstor.org/stable/40000962)
The Redistributive Economy in New Kingdom Egypt: An Examination of Bȝkw(t) (www.jstor.org/stable/40000876)
The Ancient Egyptian Economy (www.cambridge.org/core/books/...)
Time Stamps:
00:00 Intro
06:10 Bronze Age World
10:10 Levels of Destruction
16:30 The Sea Peoples
26:57 Sea People Origins?
32:40 Climate Change
42:19 Earthquake Storm
44:16 Fall of the Mycenaeans
55:45 Fall of the Hittites
1:04:14 Fall of Egypt
1:14:48 Systems Collapse
#history
#documentary
#bronzeage
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We just had a follw up interview with Dr. Jesse Millek on the Destruction that Wasnt: ruclips.net/video/J5Zzth92tEQ/видео.htmlsi=fHLLorNNZSb697Z7
natural catastrophes still ignored, not volcanism, but meteor swarm entering orbit causing repetitive bolide events over span of years/decades, that could even with just atmospheric explosion close enough to surface actually shatter the memnon colossi (not unlike "Tempest" stele) explain lower solar radiation and temperature by atmospherised dust and displace the populace of the gulf/arabia, throwing with their lot the northern pelasgians like weshesh sounds more like oscans and teresh like tartessos...
This is my first video of yours, so I don't know your normal content, but this is the best history video I've ever seen that doesn't disrespect my intellect or time. Even how you described your sponsor, makes me respect them from how they treated you, so thank you for making this content.
This was an awesome video. You need to make this a poster or something I can buy and hang up on my wall. This timeline thing from the video. Love it.
You've kind of unwittingly opened the door that leads to a much better understanding of how the world and solar system work. If you want to know more, you need to research Bond Events, Bond Cycles, the carbon cycle, and how these relate to radiocarbon curves. Also research how these are related to cyclical increased volcanism and tectonic plate instability. You might also want to look into Earth Tides, as well as the physics associated with the gravitational effects of cyclical planetary, lunar, and solar resonances. This will of course lead you to why the Egyptian Old Kingdom/Ur III collapse and the LBA collapse are related to the civilizational collapses of Late Antiquity and the LIA. Have fun storming the castle.
This was a brilliant presentation. I am glad to have watched this, because it really helps with my small scale project.
For a creative writing project, I started looking closer at the Amazons, and from there I started looking closer at the Trojan War. I have a basic theory that it was a series of smaller skirmishes and attacks, which never went in the Greeks favour. They got a final victory, through the use of deception, sacking the city in the process.
I think this, because a ten year ear on the doorstep of the Hittite Empire, and they didn't even notice? It doesn't make sense to me.
Your presentation helps to show the greater nuance of the matter, and that there was a tremendous amount going on.
Thanks for doing this presentation, and now to look at your interview.
This topic broke me. The research process uncovered a confusing web of posited explanations which in many cases were contradictory, unproven, or outright false. In attempting to piece it all together into a concise video I found that we would have to lose too much nuance. This would have resulted in a video which checked the boxes in terms of listing the leading academic hypotheses but without providing enough context to properly understand them and their nuances. My ultimate decision was to ditch our usual format and just present the academic research to you directly. I believe this "pulling back of the curtain" on this video specifically will help give you a much better understading of the subject and hopefully a more healthy relationship with proper skepticism and inquiry. I'll be listing all my sources in the description so you can read more and I look forward to hearing more from the public/scholars about what we got wrong here. The quest for understanding should be a lively conversation between all of us : )
Did you research any of Ralph Ellis work? If not you really should, must reads for ancient Egypt and origins of Christianity and true origins of Jesus. He goes into who the sea people were as well.
If this hopefully helps, it's impossible to know what really happened, all that long ago, anyway. The events of the Bronze age, are just so incredibly ancient, it's almost impossible to distinguish from fantastical stories of ancient mythology, and if anything, makes for a worse story and doesn't produce much credible data for discourse, even then separated. History is further, filled with perceptions, from perspective recorded to perspective received, and all the intermediate points in between, changing the narrative and even data in the process. The older the topic, the more unreliable. Even the 20th and the 21st centuries are filled with mysteries, what define the entire era. Major global powers, such as US and the West, Russia and the East, Arabs and the Middle East, China and the Orient, and so on, all of them each having a particular interpretation for everything what happened in just recent years, all of it valid simultaneously, even then mutually exclusive, to different parties. So much worse, with anything older then a century, let alone millennia. Bronze age, is even older still. It's all really, storytelling rather then science.
Welcome to the Bronze Age.
you said at the beginning of the video at the end of the 13th century and begining of the 12th century...
did you get those two the wrong way around?
@@TheRahsoftNo, dates older than 2023 years ago are counted backwards from zero.
I majored in history, but don’t get to do a lot of research anymore unfortunately. Showing laypeople the research process is actually THE BEST public utility your channel can have. Educational material must always teach people how to teach themselves, and it shows people the actual work of being a historian. You should do many more videos like this.
Here here!
See I love history. By no means am I a historian nor have I stepped one foot onto a college or university. Doing actual research goes over my head and I’m lost and don’t know where to start. So I use RUclips for channels like this and others to get my scratch of the surface history. I have so many different areas of history I would love to dive into, but the starting process of researching and all that is not something I have any experience in.
The problem with this issue (Bronze Age Collapse) is found in many other issues. Most of academia is inconsistent in application of standards of evidence. It seems that once a peer reviewed paper is published and gains wide support, evidence supporting that position is subjected to far less scrutiny than evidence contrary to that position is.
This tendency is what leads people to make claims that "evidence contrary to the official narrative is being suppressed" and to believe in all sorts of crackpot notions. When academia says "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" what is often meant is "I demand more evidence to admit an idea I believe in is wrong than it took to convince me it was right".
The same standards need to applied to all evidence.
I Second this
I’m studying history at the moment and I couldn’t agree more. This sort of information is usually hidden on library shelves, but he’s put it out there for people to read and understand, which is pretty impressive.
a dog walks into a tavern, and cannot see anything. therefore the whole bronze age collapsed.
LMAOOOOOOO
At least he wasn’t sold poor quality copper ingots.
A man walks into a bronze bar, and says Ow 🤕
Only 50% of all major cities collapse and all writing is lost, trade provably dies down for hundreds of years. “Buuttt butt you haven’t proved it’s a total collapse!”
They ran out of bronze.
Your an artist with words
@@user-ix4wt6zy4f *you're*
Facts!
I could "um, actually" this to hell and back, but I cannot ever say you're wrong...
The Bronze aged too quickly
Im from Iran and due to sanctions i cannot possibly support you in any way, but i want to say, i appreciate your efforts and your absolutely beautiful content and they mean a world to me as you along with other colleagues gave me so much understanding and knowledge of the world and helped me through my intellectual journey in life so far, i feel for ever in debt to you and i believe you deserve all the best for what you do on this platform...i really wish more people supported these types of materials as the world today more than ever needs a better look at where humanity was and how it came to be here today...
I am so sorry for your wonderful country and amazing history. I hope you will be free again one day!
@@bavariancarenthusiast2722 Thank you ❤
The Indo-Iranians were important contributers to the later inhabitants of northern Anatolia. They may be even be the source of Tyrsenoi (the Etruscans).
Hey there, I’m from America and I have to say traditional Iranian language, traditions and art culture is so beautiful.
Idiots are in charge in many places, but the common folks keep the important things going.
I have met many overseas Iranians and their dignity and valuing their intellect and arts, across social classes and groups, was very touching to me.
You don't ever need to support with money, you only need to support with your eyes lol also the letter I is always capitalized when it's alone
I, for one, am shocked the Egyptians lied. Next you'll tell us their pharaohs weren't 20 feet tall and didn't defeat entire armies by themselves.
You heretic! You are consuming to much Hittite propaganda!
Blasphemy
CURSE OF SET UPON THEE
First-time viewer of your channel, so I don’t know what your other ones are like, but I love the approach you took. Actually citing and comparing sources is too uncommon in RUclips videos, and then making the effort to look at how the research has evolved over time is pretty commendable. I also think you do an excellent job of talking in what sounds like your actual speaking voice. Feels like i’m in the room with you. Kudos!
Yes definitely! It's so nice to watch a video with actual sources and without the RUclips voice and cadence.
Same here. I can’t wait to see other videos, but this format is excellent.
Also a first-time viewer (unless I just forgot stumbling across a video in the past). Also impressed.
My highest qualification is ResM - I literally have a Masters in Research - this documentary fed my soul in so many ways!
I think it's so important to 'show your workings' like this, to show the critical thinking and the rabbit holes and the wide reaching various paths you have to walk down to bring together a coherent story that inevitably tells you "We don't know, but here's our best guess based on these stressors".
AND ALWAYS GOING BACK TO THE PRIMARY SOURCES!!!!
Just brilliant! Thank you!
This is almost certainly one of the most difficult subjects to tackle, and your acknowledgment of the medium’s difficulty is so true. I have honestly the highest level of respect for not only your integrity, but your ability to grind through it, accept the challenges, and deliver something that isn’t denigrating or reductive to the form. Stellar work, and you’re one of the best in the business. Cheers!
Thanks for acknowledging this. I actually think I learned a lot more in this way as well and did manage to get a much better understanding of the material by having to not just sift through the papers but clip out the relevant bits and try to weave those together. It's definitely left me humbled for the work of historians and given me a better wariness for summarized takes on complex subjects
Yeah thanks! In 3 years your material is going to be educating my young son, maybe someday ,your channel can be in the history books? 😅
@@6lbBassFisherman-zp6dt don't forget the horses
@@6lbBassFisherman-zp6dt No offence, but if you think they are doing a bad job, make your own video. I'm not saying that to be sarcastic, but for real, if you think contrary to the conclusions made on this channel, make a video contradictory to theirs.
@@6lbBassFisherman-zp6dt I don't think it would cost ya $1,000s of dollars to make a reaction video.
But, aren't people free to use whatever sources they deem to be correct? I'm mean isn't there a quote "you can think people see you as an idiot, or you can open your mouth and remove all doubt"? Something like that, people will usually reveal their ignorance all on their own.
>"History is written by the victors"
>Be sea peoples
>Refuse to write any histories about how you destroyed the bronze age civilizations
Absolute gigachad move.
They probably couldn't read and write. The Arameans were pastoral peoples living in wastelands, and their only concern was fighting for the local puddle
They were wiped out by Egypt and sea storms so in the end they weren't really the victors.
@omarali262 no,they destroy them all, Egypt paid some sea people to fight
Egypt was burned down, before that solution
History is only written by the victors if the losers are wiped out.
History is written by those who write history. Anyone who knows anything about WW2 pop history and all its problems knows that the victors do not necessarily write the history. The losers can just as easily have their version remembered.
You know how people say they feel like they are losing brain cells when they watch something dumb. I feel like I gained a brain cell in this case lol.
Saying that the bronze age collapse took place simpy because of the sea peoples, is like saying that Rome fell solely because of barbarian incursions. Theres always more to the story than a single, convenient answer.
Another awesome and informative video, invicta and the team! Keep up the great work 👍
exactly also my line of thinking, Sure the Sea People's would've put a lot of pressure on things, but they also needed a reason to do so to begin with, either from internal pressures of their own Forcing them to go out and seek new lands, or external opportunities from weakened targets, and if there was a massive Drought in that region at the time, it'll have led to Both happening at the same time, as Internally their lands became less desirable, and the other Empires not having as much a grip on things as they had before
@@Voron_AggravInterestingly, there was a lot of drought in the steppe at the time of the fall of Rome. This caused the Huns to pillage westward which pushed people into Roman territory.
A lot of major tipping events in history are precipitated by major droughts.
@@TechnoMinarchistBall there's been a lot of factors that lead to that, by the time that happened a lot of dominoes where already lined up to fall, similar to the Bronze Age collapse, the Volcanic event in the 5-6th Century AD also wasn't gonna help the Romans
@@Voron_Aggrav Yes there were many things that caused it. Just felt like pointing out the similar situation.
@@TechnoMinarchistBall yes, there are certainly a lot of overarching similarities, though at the same time Rome was mostly a single system collapse and the Bronze Age was a total systems collapse of several different countries
This is actually an incredible format. Love this and would love to see even more of this behind the scenes meta history! Good work!
After finishing this video, I find myself wanting more of his stuff done this way... no excessive polish, just the raw reality of historical research with enough polishing to make it presentable in video format.
For sure 100%. As a person who just got my history degree Historiography and meta-history is definitely my favorite part of the subject.
I am going to be a spoiler here. The Drews map has been found to have a couple of inaccuracies, but it is largely accurate. In fact more destruction layers at the time of the collapse have been found in the past 30 years. And we do know for a fact that population, trade, economic activity in general fell in the E. Med. We know for a fact that trade in tin, in fact existence of raw tin to use for bronze in cities disappeared. That course exchange of pottery demonstrably fell. What has been successfully challenged is climate/drought, internal revolt. In fact a set of major changes in military technology (very proximate changes in ease of iron weapon production) and tactics has returned from being orphaned to again the most likely cause.
Maybe I need to give this video a 2nd chance one day. But I absolutely hated this format. Got recommended the video, watched a bit. Cool, scrolling around a document, showing how you've worked through the research. ... Oh hell, is it like this the whole way through? I did a quick scan through and looks like it. I want something streamlined, where can get all the detail in most efficient way. Let me know the research, but optimise it.
It's easy enough to see now with your explanation that it was an Alien xenomorph event that spread through the Mediterranean, and Predator kill-teams had to be tagged in and wipe the slate clean.
Thanks, Invicta!❤
We don't have evidence this ISN'T the case!
I am not saying it was aliens.....but it was aliens.
The predator got wounded and had to activate self destruct 😉😆😆
That explains what happened to the Phoenicians. But what about Sigourney Weaver? Was she an alien queen by the end of the collapse?
@@Tinil0 That's the beauty of conspiracy theories. Except Berenstein Bears conspiracy theory, that's a proved fact we live in alternate reality, with Berenstain Bears.
I wanted to say thank you for all of your hard work tackling this era. It's hard to put in words how interconnected history is. What happens in one place because of a drought can easily become an assassination in another. I really enjoyed your video.
Sir, this is astonishing work. What an achievement. The spirit of true enquiry is so evident in this project. I've learned much less during whole university courses than I have in the past hour. Thank you! And congratulations on your achievement!
To put it bluntly. History RUclips channels are fundamentally changing how society can view and interpret history. I don't think most creators realize just how innovative and important their work is.
Edit: Very glad the comments are talking about the negatives of RUclipsrs who do not try and spout misinformation but it gets it out to more people who then might take a bigger interest in the subject. The real problem is people who know the secrets of the universe but refuse to share
If you rely on YT videos to learn about history the world is doomed. It's the same "facts" and bullshit every video. You'd rather watch a 10 min video on "WW2 Battle of [insert here]" written and rewritten by people in their 20s than read multiple books and memoirs from people who actually lived and engaged in the battle? How useless. YT is should only ever be used as a tool for discoverability, not facts. Do not trust RUclipsrs. Trust historians and specialists who happen to post on YT. Big difference. Content creation is not about accuracy, it's about views. At least Invicta does actual research, most other channels not so much.
And the overwhelming majority of them use it to push lies, misinformation, and whatever bullshit agenda they want to push that video.
They aren't qualified, they aren't experts, and it's not hard to find actual historians correcting them constantly (the internet savvy ones at least.)
Take them ALL with a bucket of salt and read into the sources yourself.
lol.
There are a great many brief and bad ones, however, that do not do history any justice. They were not like us.
Just remember that it works backwards aswell.
Looks at Ancient Aliens..
Now this is how you do history! Excellent way to show high school aged students how real research is done and how history is a quagmire of perspectives. The way you go about evaluating evidence and perspectives is an incredibly immersive way to demonstrate that skill. Well done!
This kind of longer form content is great, as is the pulled back curtain to the whole process. Really, it feels like watching a guest lecture on the subject in university. I can almost picture sitting in an auditorium listening to this and watching a powerpoint. And that is awesome. Great video!
You know what I really appreciate about this video compared to the usual format of easily digestible stuff - I can remember all this information so much better because there was critical thinking and a complex narrative.
I've recently been quite infuriated by how little I remember from so many history vids I've watched. This has been a very welcomed video in my eyes!
As a history major in college who also grew up playing Total War games and the like, when I found your channel, I was exuberant. This video is probably my favorite video that you have made because it truly shows what historical research should look like and how to approach historical controversies and mysteries.
I can only hope that you would make this sort of video more often because I truly do love this content. I appreciate what you do.
Legitimately, Total War is the reason why I became passionate about history and geography!
I remember studying the Bronze Age collapse when I got my degree in Archaeological Sciences and, yes, it is an absolute mess because we simply *do not know* the answer to, well, anything on this.
The problem is that there were a lot of bad things happening all at once - but there have been plenty of times when lots of bad things happened all at once and we didn't see a widespread collapse.
So there had to be a deciding factor.
Was it the Sea Peoples? We don't know enough about who the hell the Sea peoples were, if they even existed, or how much of an impact they actually had.
And the crazy thing is that this is something that is in common with a whole load of "civilizations/towns that vanished" problems.
Collapse of the Olmecs. We don't know what happened.
Teotihuacan? We don't know what happened.
The collapse of Mesopotamia. We don't know what happened.
The disappearance of hundreds, if not thousands, of settlements in the British middle ages. it is a mystery.
But what makes the Bronze Age collapse (BAC) absolutely infuriating is that the "Sea Peoples" thing got everyone so preoccupied that no-one really spent any time properly fact checking anything outside of the Sea Peoples vs Other causes debate. So we've got decades of nonsense debate.
If you've seen CGP Grey's video on Staten Island you'll understand the effect that has occurred. Only these problems are ten thousands worse with the BAC because its almost every detail like which settlements were actually destroyed/abandoned and when. And also what does and doesn't count as the "sea peoples".
But this is compounded by the fact that we can't definitively say one way or another on almost every single fact.
My feeling of the events is that the "Sea Peoples" are a bit like the "Vikings". Different groups of people using boats to do raids or to settle that have been bracketed into one labelled group for simplicity. With events spanning over 100-300 years. (However the "sea peoples" could well have been different Bronze Age groups attacking each other as well!)
And, just like the Vikings, the destruction conducted by the "Sea Peoples" was greatly exaggerated.
My guess is that we saw a range of differing reasons (including Climate!) that dramatically impacted the economy which meant that some sites that were previously profitable ceased to be so and were abandoned, other sites that were indeed destroyed due to warfare/earthquakes. But I do think it happened over a longer period and I do think that collapse isn't as dramatic as has been claimed.
As mentioned earlier, we have a clear record of loads of medieval settlements in the British Isles that were simply abandoned - and we don't know why - but there's no indication that the entirety of civilization on the British Isles collapsed in the period.
The most coherent theory is based on sociology instead of documented history.
Undermining the pillars of their society, long after the purpose of their construction had been forgotten.
Too much success for too long desensitized them to what causes failure, and then they ignorantly adopted then doubled down on self-destructive behavior
This reminds me of the Cambrian explosion. The name itself suggests a singular point in time, and it was a relatively short period of 10s of millions of years, but that is still a long time for evolution to do its thing. The word "collapse" is similar; it conjures up an image of suddenness, but that suddenness is an artefact of the discontinuity in the archeological record.
Have you read Julian Jaynes' Book?
I've found it very thought provoking. Not saying the theory he lays out has to be true. I think it might be. Or might not be. But it certainly is very interesting. And somehow rarely discussed, I feel.
I'm curious about one thing, it was mentioned there was extensive trade happening in the region yet I've never heard anything about the different powers commenting to each other about what was going on. As an example, take the world economic forum talking about democracy on life support or the doomsday clock.
Where there no equivalent to any world groups? And even if trade was conducted from isolation I'd expect more from each leader positing about the state of the world.
I absolutely love this video style. This is the kind of stuff that made me fall in love with RUclips over traditional media, the individuals ability to personally create content without producers and executives confront the format. I'm glad you did something different. This is awesome so far and I'm only a couple minutes in.
THANK YOU FOR NOT BLINDSIDING ME WITH THE AD. Its always deeply appreciated when an ad read is either preemptively discussed and / or natural fits with the content. The power of warning the viewer is massively underestimated. Way to many channels will be like "lets get into the video" then hit you with a three minute ad read. I will literally never watch a channels content if theyre willing to be sleezy with the ad placement.
Great video! I've always been left feeling very unsatisfied when reading articles or watching videos about this period, they always seem very vague and left me with more questions than answers but after watching your video I finally feel like I have a better understanding, great work!
That was honestly my feelings on a lot of other videos I watched as well. Glad it was helpful!
I'm sorry it broke you but I'm glad someone has decided to cover it because to me, it's always just been that little weird historical footnote that we just have to move past while doing research lol
Still the same conclusion the others came to. Manny factors but also... sea-people.
Well put
And this is the right way to talk about history! It's annoying how some feel totally certain about events and processes that took place thousands of years ago with scarce evidence as support. It's also inspiring to learn how much is still unknown and waiting to maybe be discovered one day.
This was amazing! PLEASE keep your style as you inevitably blow up man, too many youtube historians overproduce their content. I hate when people speak like theyre in a lecture/reading a script. This felt more like getting a drink with a friend whos super passionate about history like YES GIVE ME A GAP IN BETWEEN SENTENCES LIKES A NORMAL PERSON! The powerpoint style video, the natural cadence, the humor, not to mention constant citation…. Its super refreshing. Subbed and liked for sure
I always liked how the bronze age collapse ties with epics like the oddysey and illiad and the historical parallels that could be drawn between them .I wonder how much more we would have known had we found Homer's lost works.
Here's hoping that one of the scrolls at Herculaneum contains some of those lost works, and not just tax records, shopping lists, or someone's amateur poetry. Lol
It even ties with world's longest epic, "Mahabharat"
Homer is also a collective name from several writers / verbal tradition handed down in the generations. And yes - we lost so much during our history, we have no way for knowing. Only think off the famous loss of the libraries of Alexandria...
I have this hypothesis that the Odyssey is an insider look at the life of the Sea Peoples.
@@ArturdeSousaRocha yes they mad for sure part of it! Great hero journey btw!
I think people tend to confuse themselves and over think when it comes to the Bronze Age collapse. There is a perfect parallel for that event that we DO have a ton of records for and that is the collapse of western Roman Empire.
-proliferation of military technology
-outsiders gaining military experience and insight through mercenary work
-expansion of trade in luxury items to the outside world which only served to entice the outsiders to try to invade/immigrate
-stagnation of the established civilization
-increase in social and economic inequality which led to widespread dissatisfaction among the population of the established power
-cyclical climatic changes
…
Much like the Bronze Age collapse the Fall of western Roman Empire didn’t happen overnight but it did happen within span of one generation and the destruction wasn’t equal everywhere. Britain was devastated but eastern parts of Roman Empire remained mainly intact.
Yeah. I was going to write a longer response but I mostly just agree.
But the collapse of the Western Roman Empire is also a huge area of academic debate and we've seen major paradigm shifts happening there too. In fact the relative wealth of sources has seemingly served to mislead us because they often describe it as some cataclysmic event but of course they're being written by an educated elite who are more likely to see it that way and they were also Christians who were anticipating an apocalypse. It works well as a parallel and as a place you can try to compare with but it also isn't totally clear and we also shouldn't just assume that the same dynamics that played out during the fall of the Western Roman Empire would also play out during the Bronze Age Collapse given how different the two are.
Thanks for not only seeing the project through, but showing your thought process throuout.
A little late to the show but Im fully behind longer videos.
This video doesn't break you, this makes you better and stronger. Be proud of yourself.
Getting a sponsor from CA and then openly admitting there is a discussion about the direction of a beloved franchise must have been a though decision to make . Thanks Oakley (Julian) Currently grinding my way trough the ancient Egypt podcast so this is a nice addition to watch for my bronze age obsession.
Which podcast?
What podcast?
Yeah CA are in meltdown at the moment. Good riddance
I'm so done with CA's trash. I own every TW and every DLC, literally everything (bar Pharoah, I finally drew a line not to cross), and the only TWs I've played for years are Shogun 2 and older. Like actually played for a decent amount of time and legitimately enjoyed. I still play them, they're still good. Everything later is trash.
@@DeeJy33 I enjoyed Rome 2 but only with DEI for some more depth. Shogun 2 is loads of fun, and who doesn’t love medieval?
Absolutely love that you broke down the complexities in this video!! Just love it! There is only so many times you can view a simplified video topics before you don’t want to see them anymore. I am sure this is tougher, but please keep doing this!!
I’ve watched dozens of docs -many “scholarly” - on the BAC - I was throughly impressed by the synthesis and detail. Comprehensive, high quality content. I do hope your sponsors appreciated this effort as much as I did. Great work… I have struggled to find the “big picture”. This was understandable but not dumbed down. Great job!! 👏🏻
Bronze age collapse has been on my mind lately
Yeah it’s such a fascinating subject
How often do men think about the Bronze Age Collapse?
It's definitely an underrated topic.
I think the Roman empire daily
Me too. Also the Iron Age collapse between 450-650
I almost didn't click on this because I've already seen multiple docs on the bronze age collapse. This is different
The bronze age collapse and the voynich manuscript are my favourite "we will never truly know" topics.
They're both very interesting in themselves but also as practice objects to learn how to science.
I've likely seen all the videos you mentioned at the beginning and I'm looking forward to your approach.
This is why it's so important to reevaluate existing scholarship regularly. Historiography is an oft overlooked, but extremely important part of the process. Great work!
I really like your comments about pop history! I've seen it happen so much. I think Tom Scott talked about this fantastically, though he was referring to science communication. As a creator it can be hard to stay true to what you logically know is the right way to present science when the audience doesn't really want it and there is a direct dollar amount attached to viewer retention. A five-minute discussion about historiography is so easy to skip as a creator when you know that including that extra work actually decreases retention
This was BY FAR my favorite video on this channel and the best RUclips video on the Bronze Age Collapse. The format of reviewing a summary of the actual data where the channel-created visuals are graphs works much better (for me) than videos where the focus of the narrative is entertainment and the visuals are essentially roughly-related video game footage that adds to the atmosphere but does not add information or aid understanding. The “notes document,” for lack of a better term, was in its own right also very impressive. Would really love to see *more* videos done in this format. It doesn’t come across as a crisis in presentation style, but rather a more genuine and interesting style.
I just blame Heaven's malevolent interference.
That basically explains every extremely bizarre event in history.
this is the kind of work that just drops your jaw, i can't imagine how much time you had to put into this, i really appreciate all this! thank you
15min into this journey, I immediately thought of one problem based on the 90s research. I watched a series Japan NHK documentaries of the Iron Road. It covered a bit of the Bronze Age collapse. And according to Japanese experts, archaeological find of some Hittite cities showed no sign of serious siege war. Hittite residents simply abandoned the city. And no historians could explain why. There has always been a lack of solid proof as to what went wrong LAST. No proofs, no causal effects.
Japan NHK makes superb content.
The fact remains that, finally, a smaller, weaker Hattusa, did fall to invaders. Destruction by fire was shown and remnants of weaponry, especially arrowheads, were found.
The immediately obvious conclusion to draw from that, whether true or not, is famine. If the city can't be supported, people will abandon it.
@@michaelhenry3234 Well it could also be more mundane answers like industry moving away. If trade patterns changed what might have once made a city wealthy could disappear and so people move away. It's exactly the same as how people today move after jobs. Another explanation could be that the cities lost their status as centers of power and prestiege with the decline of the bronze age empires, combined with population decline this can easily explain the disappearance of a city and mirrors the pattern seen in Western Europe after the fall of the Western Roman Empire.
@@hedgehog3180 True, though with all the other evidence, I think famine is the most likely culprit. Though that could be just another cause that cascaded into abandonment. Anyway, what I was getting at is that residents abandoning a city isn't a super mysterious unexplainable phenomenon.
It may be that in a couple thousand years they write about us, with equally as many questions, contradictory opinions and differing accounts of the same events.
Truly an interesting thought.
No there won't, this isnt the bronze age we have the internet
@@liptonmapper2543 Yes, and the advent of the internet has certainly stopped all of the arguing. 🙄
@@liptonmapper2543 Look up the concept of the "digital dark age", and why storing all of our information on encoded plastic, fragile media instead of physical books might have serious consequences for the future of history-keeping. Where books might last centuries, faulty hard drives and floppy disks are already permanently erasing information from existence.
I mean there will just be way more data available to anyone looking at our time in the future simply because we produce so much more and make an active effort to collect and find facts and even analyze our own society. However they might have some form of analysis or questions that we could not anticipate in the same way Bronze Age people probably couldn't imagine that we'd care about stuff like census and climate data. Though we are also somewhat anticipating that by preserving loads of samples and deliberately slowing the pace of excavations.
@@hedgehog3180they cared about wether and climate... survival depended on it
I BREATHE for such comprehensive introductions to topics with wide ranging area as this documentary you have produced.
Thank you SO MUCH for also including in the video description your sources; I am a collector of data as interconnected by my hobbies.
this is phenomenal. you are so good at the transfer from academia to youtube that more time and more detail is genuinely beneficial, without becoming dry. just what i was looking for when opening this website this evening.
Fascinating way to tell this history - sometimes you don’t need fancy graphics - just a sense of companionship for the historical journey.
Nicely put!
This is now my favourite history video on the entirety of youtube. I absolutely adore the way you presented the different kinds of evidence with excerpts of articles, tables and graphs. I truly hope you will make more of these long, deep-dive videos.
This is perhaps the best lecture on the bronze age collapse I have heard. I particularly like how you discuss the problems with a number of different sources of information and how errors and misinterpretations can sneak in to being base line assumptions.
"Take your time - release it when its ready" - that's so nice of them. I wish they would take that advice for their games though.
Love this format that has more focus on the academics. It asks a bit more investment both in time and energy, but it's really rewarding! Would love to see this more often, every few episodes or so. Thank you for your effort and daring to innovate in the format :)
One of the BEST videos you've put out!!! I loved the beginning of your video. The explanation of what your role and aim as a RUclipsr is, is fantastic! I love how you tackled this subject 10/10.
Really happy i was recommend this video. The format you chose to cover thia complicated topic was perfect. Something about the pages of research evidence being laid out in front of the viewer, and then going through them piece by piece, setting up the important context, dissecting the popular innacuracies and leaving the viewer with a broad understanding of what is known, and what is left to be discovered gave the video a personal touch. As if the viewer was sitting down with you in your office while you show us your latest projects.
This was really interesting and loved this format especially in the way that you express how many theories there are and not many facts set in stone this is often hard to find in science and history so really appreciate it and the honesty!
This is some great detailed work. I really appreciate the depths you go into here and I hope this does well because more detailed analysis of sources and scholarly trends is always appreciated!
This was absolutely stupendous!!!! I can’t thank you enough. Really well done. Of course, I’m not a scholar but I’ve always been interested in the lack of information and annoyed by anyone purporting to know just exactly what did happen. You’ve filled in some gaps with this presentation and I love your take on it. Thanks again! Be well and take good care!! 🫶🏼🙂🕊
As a very enthusiast of Bronze Age history, this is without a doubt the best lecture about the Bronze Age Collapse I have ever saw anywhere. Nice thing CA sponsored this historiv odyssey. And thanks for the herculean effort to gather all this research pieces together in the attempt to solve this mistery. I am out of words to say how awesome it was, but I am sure Homero would have some more to fill the gaps if he could watch this...
I REALLY like this format. No matter of fact assertions, just laying what we know on the table and throwing out some educated guesses and letting the viewer sit with that.
Whoa hey invicta dont short change yourself you guys do amazing work and we're all the better for the passion you guys put into these videos
we recently had a guest speaker (Dr. Eric H. Cline) on the bronze age collapses from the Archaeological Institute of America at my old university, got to sit in and ask what was the impact of the collapse on central Asia since its heavily believed that the majority of the tin came from there, bro he said we don't even know who mined the tin we just know that they must have gotten it from there... this was probably the best answer I could've gotten, it is such an exciting time in archaeology, i was able to partake in archaeological practicum in Crete last summer and actually work on an active Minoan excavation site, got to see the emerging techniques and technology, I strongly believe we will find satisfying answers to the bronze age collapse in our lifetimes, and I want to be a part of it.
Main sources for tin are Devon/Cornwall, Brittany, northwestern Iberia, and Central Asia. If the long range trading network breaks down, fresh bronze production breaks down as local tin deposits are too small to meet demand. This is not as catastrophic as one might think because it's relatively easy to recycle bronze, so the existing supply can be repurposed for a time. But it certainly would have given impetus to smiths to try to figure out iron smelting.
Or Cornwall. Or Portugal. Or Spain. I like how it was put in the "History of the entire world, I guess" video: "I don't know. My dealer won't tell me where he gets it."
Look up the Oxus civilization of Central Asia. It is very well understood where Central Asian tin came from for most of the Mediterranean Bronze Age. He may be too specialized and focused in his research to have looked into it. Unless he specifically meant the very end of the Bronze Age, as the collapse of the Oxus civilization appears to have been a little earlier than the collapse further west.
Excellent presentation and format for this! Everything before the Iron Age is a huge challenge to comprehend, and even more of a challenge to communicate to others. That's part of why I love the period so much myself! This video demonstrates the importance of engaging an audience as a participant in historical research, rather than just a receptacle of presumed factoids. This inspires me to keep at it on my own RUclips channel in confronting these kinds of topics!
This is the most in depth, well researched, most informative, and just best piece of media I have ever seen on the Bronze Age Collapse. Every other video, documentary, speaker, etc that I have seen discuss this topic have either said it was the Sea People or We Don't Know. Extremely well made video, good job!!
Invicta: "systems collapse is a Gish gallop"
Invicta: "let's see what really happened"
Invicta: *describes systems collapse in detail*
Hell of a deep dive tho 😁
I LOVE THAT YOU MADE THIS VIDEO, I know how much work went into this but it was worth every second because this is probably one of the greatest videos on this amazing topic out there
What if the Bronze age collapse was not a single apocalyptic event but a series of catastrophes culminating in the cessation of bronze making?
Bingo
1:45
The "domino effect" starting in Greece seems to be the most likely scenario at this time. It wasn't a single event, which is what this video is all about. And bronze making didn't cease. Scholars like to break history up into time periods and give them names. But as scholars also point out, it's not like Johnny Bronze Age woke up one morning, held a village vote, and everyone decided it was now the Iron Age. 🙂 Their lives were continuous. Calling it the end of the Bronze Age and the beginning of the Iron Age is actually kind of misleading. Bronze was still the dominant metal at the beginning of the Iron Age.
@@Bramble451 The thing with Bronze is that it requires trading to get the two metals together. And in fact, all the way to 1800, Bronze was still superior to Iron for the purpose of ship cannon production. However Bronze was NEVER cheap, and stayed expensive. You use iron because you can't get Bronze anymore.
Even today, 1 kg of clean bronze is worth 6 dollars while the same 1kg of stainless steel is just 2 dollars at best. Bronze is just too expensive, and once world trade stopped after collapse, people were forced to use iron as a substitute. You can get iron in most countries without any kind of trading.
@@VallenChaosValiant Bronze has a higher tensile strength than pure iron and is also easier to cast, which is why it remained the metal of choice for any large castings for a long time. Iron only becomes better additives are introduced, making steel. The problem is that carbon is much lighter than iron and also readily reacts with air so in large casts it is extremely difficult to ensure a consistent composition of the metal and thus weaknesses and cracks form. Also iron melts at a very high temperature and India was the only place in the world that actually developed the ability to melt it so most places had to forge steel to ensure its quality, the technology for melting steel only really reached Europe in the Renneisance. Copper and tin however readily mix and are not very reactive, have similar densities and melt at low temperatures, making them ideal for casting large objects. It was only during the industrial revolution we developed the ability to produce and cast steel in large quantities, and then we immediatly discovered that casting actually sucks and forging lets you work harden the piece.
The disclaimer at the start of the vid about the limitations of history being promoted in a popular media for at was honest and highly appreciable when contrasted with other documentaries on this subject, in fact documentaries on youtube have a very thinly qualified difference from mere pop history, but the nuances of such differences are well described and the qualitative between the two are made clear in this vid. Thanks for doing so.
The channel 'History Time' also has a decent vid on the subject, but it is less accesable at over two hours long.
You're absolutely right about how ambiguous and contentious the topic is. So much of history is far more contentious than people want to hear! Thanks for highlighting the situation.
*The Bronze Age Collapse.*
*Everything that could go wrong did go wrong in the worst possible place at the worst possible time under the worst possible circumstances.*
*Maybe.*
Maybe the real Bronze Age Collapse was the friends we made along the way.
I've only watched maybe 3 of your videos, so I'm not a veteran in your community, but I'm really happy for you that CA sponsored your video. You totally deserve it. Wishing you the best!
Absolutely love this, fantastic to see a deep explanation rather than just finding a generalized answer. The surviving fractions of the hittites would be an awesome follow up. The difference in video format really showed us the effort and time and research you put into behind the scenes and is fantastic work
Honestly as a Software Developer who spends a lot of their time being explained Tech Designs using Miro this really felt easy to grasp and follow. It's like a backend dev was explaining to me their microservice architecture and I loved every second of it. One thing that I didn't care about but some people might is spacing the columns out a bit more so you don't see the edges when you zoom in and don't get distracted, otherwise awesome job. Didn't think I would stay here for an entire hour.
Well done! It's funny for me to see how little the situation has changed over the past 20 some years, when I was involved directly with the question. A few things just for the fun of it: (1) I have never, and still don't, buy into the earthquakes hypothesis. People rebuild after earthquakes. Occasionally, sites are abandoned, but that's the exception, not the rule. (2) Climate change was only just starting to be looked at when I left the field, and at the time I poo-pooed the idea. If anything has changed for me, it's my recent reassessment of how important climate change could have been as the underlying trigger. (3) Drew's book is one of the worst things that has ever happened to this question. It is a popular book, not an academic book. If you look at reviews (including Cline's) of the book when it came out, scholars were trying to politely s**t all over it. And rightly so. It's terrible. But it was published as a book that anybody could easily get, and took over in the general public. (4) Something that was completely unknown until recently was that Hattusa was largely abandoned by the time of the end of the LBA. There are still lots of interesting questions around that. To me, it makes me painfully desirous of finding the city of Tarhuntassa. I think those are the things that immediately jump out at me. There are aspects that would be fun to discuss and debate, like all good scholarship, but I give you many props in putting this all together and doing it well. Sorry it broke you, it's a difficult but fascinating question, which is why it still grabs people's imagination!
One would think that a series of catastrophic earthquakes would have been well covered in the written records but no mention of even one, that I am aware of.
This is one of my favorites of all your videos, and I love your normal way of making them, the honesty at the beginning was great please keep it up your content is is a gift
That's the most informative video I've seen on the Bronze Age Collapse ever. Both the event and the limitations on our knowledge of said event seem much clearer now. Thank you.
uh oh.
As someone who frequents history forums, I can tell you in advance, this comment section is going to be a hornet's nest 😂
It's mostly people hating on Creative Assembly, the sponsor, that are making the negative comments 😅 Like Invicta has any say in, or responsibility for, the quality of the Total War series of games 😂 If they're willing to sponsor the content of quality history channels, I don't care how bad their game is.
i'm sorry but i genuinely LOVE how everyone who tried to deepdive this topic just ends up bricking their own brain.
it's the most mysterious unsolved mystery in ALL of human history.
and the more you look at the answers some people are yelling loudly from the rooftops, the more you learn they never even got close to bricking their brains
If someone claims they know the answer, they're (fucking) idiots.
If someone goes "this is all i know. it hurt my brain. fuck this topic."
you KNOW they're actually more likely to be closer to the truth.
thanks for doing this one!
The fun thing about this is when you realise that this is *not* the only civilization collapse mystery out there. And they all have similar weirdness created by the fact that we simply don't know the answer.
The Tao that can be named is not the eternal Tao, as Lao Tzu liked to say
It was obviously Aliens. And Lizard Men, don't forget the Lizards.
This is really next level documentary skills you pulled off here. This is by far one of your best videos on the channel. Hats off to you my friend.
It's clear you researched the many facets of the Bronze Age Collapse. I appreciate your work on this complicated process. Thank you. I've read Eric Cline's book on the subject. You're the only one who has left me with a sense of what happened. Great job
I love the format. Thank you for your work
Masterpiece, do more of that please! This format is amazing, seeing how you work, seeing all the perspectives not just the destilate, its great lecture and amazing sources.
Considering climate change, it seems that soon it will be warmer than usually, but not as warm as it has been back in the roman or bronze age centuries ;)
Very impressed with this video. I have always been interested in this topic, but the honesty and relevant research you have presented make me feel far more confident in this topic after watching. Please do more like this
6:20 The way you use these “small visuals” as a way of giving an overview of what you’re going to talk about is very effective and very pleasing. I’m not sure I’ve seen that done before. It’s great!
1:01:42 The _Troubled Succession_ graphic relating to the Hittites is incredible! I know nothing about the Hittites but the graphic (with a bit of explanation regarding the dotted lines and the icons) is crystal clear and a masterpiece of information design, I think.
_EDIT:_ That said, just zooming in and out of a Miro visual workspace, even if it maintains the context of the overview, might not result in the best experience for the viewer. I think having the graphics and the text as separate slides, along with zooming in an out, might have worked better-at the very least, they’d be larger-but I appreciate that that’s a lot more work. And, however the information is presented, I think the video does an _amazing_ job of pulling together evidence from disparate sources in a compelling, very detailed, and complete account.
Never get tired of this topic of history. So much speculation and different variables on what actually happened.
Great work! I loved the video!
One of the things I feel like could help out some historians in this era, at least for the movements of the Greeks, would be taking some Greek mythology into account. Maybe not as a chronological account of what went down, but as a tool to better explain some of the political changes of the era.
We know that Achaea, with Mycenae as its capital, was the dominant power player in the region at the time due to both Greek Mythological works and according to some Hittite inscriptions (where Achaea is mentioned as Ahhiya). There was a treaty in which Ahhiyawa is mentioned (another name for Achaea) by the Hittite king Hattusili, and that the Ahhiyawa were recorded (by the Hittites) as being one of the great kings of equal rank to his own. And that, due to some reason or another, Ahhiyawa's name was crossed out a little later on this treaty.
Thucydides, in his first book on the Peloponnesian war, has his own commentary about the Greeks in their mythological age, and speaks at length about them being mostly nomadic peoples, with some small urban centers dotting the land (and he even mentions how small the ruins of Mycenae looks compared to the cities of his day). He also mentions that the early navies that controlled the seas around Greece were mostly bands of pirates, and that Agamemnon and his fleets might not be much different from these pirates.
We know where the Arzawa were located, in western Anatolia, and that they were vassals to the Hittites. that Wilios, or Ilios/Troy is located just to the north of the Arzawa and was probably not a vassal to the Hittites. The Lukka, or Lycians, at the southern end of Anatolia, probably weren't a part of an alliance with the Hittites either.
Apollodorus, in his work The Library, mentions that the Greeks, attempting to sail to Troy, ended up hitting Mysia instead. Mysia may have been the ancient nation of Mira, and probably paid tribute to the Hittites. The war there lasted for 8 years, and it is only mentioned that the land is ravaged and looted, which lends credence to the theory of Thucydides that the Greeks were pirates and raiders before they were truly centralized state, and the raiding could have increased because of the drying conditions in Europe. Apollodorus then tells us that it's another 2 years before they navigate to Troy, where the 10 year long siege begins.
Another source, a byzantine source from the sixth century, John Malalas, also has a section of his history which discusses the Trojan War, that being book 5. And in that source, it mentions that the Greeks of that time broke off into three fleets, two of the fleets harried the Anatolian coastline, and the third attacked both Cilicia (where they got a group of soldiers to join them) and occupied Cyprus. The island of Cyprus, known to the Hittites as Alasiya, was another kingdom which was under their sway, and Cilicia was directly in their desmesne. The probable downright loss Alasiya and the raid on Cilicia would probably have shaken up the unstable Hittite empire, and helped accelerate it's downfall. Later, around 1178 BC, Ugarit was attacked by some unknown force from Cyprus. Seeing that Amurru was a vassal under the larger Hittite empire, and Ugarit was a city within Amurru, it could be that Cyprus was used by the Greeks as a staging ground for more raids on Anatolia and the Levant, in the same way that the vikings used Ireland as a staging ground to raid the British mainland.
Greek and Italian piracy (due to the Sherden, Sicilians, and Etruscans being a part of the sea peoples) could have destroyed the trade for tin from far off islands beyond the Mediterranean could have led to a weakening of the centralized states of the region.
The idea of the movement of peoples starting in the western Mediterranean and moving toward the east makes sense. There is a piece of mythology recorded in Dionysius of Halicarnassus how the Pelasgians that became the Aboriginals, the tribe that the Latins were supposed to have descended from, had kicked the Sicels (Sicilians) out of the region and that they migrated to the island sometime later, so maybe this could have been the time when some people group arrived in Sicily. There's also the story of Hercules landing in Italy, and, according to Dionysius of Halicarnassus, conquering the entire peninsula, which seems very mythological and I could just be reading too far into that one.
Other Greek movements are interesting to note. The Peleset in the Levant, becoming the Philistines, for one. And in Homer's Odyssey, at some point Menelaus somehow wandered toward the island of Pharos near Egypt. Apollodorus mentions how the Greek fleet then disbanded and travelled all over, raiding and settling all over the Mediterranean, including in Libya, where a later band of Sea Peoples attacked Egypt.
Greek mythology speaks of Greece destroying itself, falling to coups disasters, and the like. Menelaus laments how Agamemnon was killed by Aigisthos in his palace at Mycenae, alongside his entire guard, and his court, and anybody else that followed him, during a feast in which all of those followers would be in his halls at the same time. This could correlate specifically with events in which revolutions or coups led to brutal fights inside of the palace complexes without the need for sacking and destroying the entire city.
I know that these stories are mythological, but the broader strokes of the stories: Greek pirates around Anatolia raiding an enemy that they once saw as friendly, getting rich off of attacking tin traders, settling in various places and attacking each other, and seeing the semi-nomadic peoples and their big-man societies (the palace economy you were talking about earlier, where the "big man" with the resources distributes them to those with less resources in return for loyalty and prestige) collapse as conditions worsen, and as the fleets they send out to raid get lost, destroyed, or just settle somewhere else, it somewhat feels like it has a historical grounding at its base. Large historical events, leading to legends of great pirates who then became great kings in later tradition, roving around and exploiting the world, in the same vein how a short lived era of piracy in the Americas led to the fictional stories based in that historical settings.
Or I could be crazy. I feel like what I just posted is the textual word dump version of the Pepe Silvia meme from Always Sunny.
Anyway, great video. Great work. Loved it.
I mean, it's an interesting story at least, and it seems compatible with the rest of our historical understanding.
But I guess we don't know until we make a portal back in time to a parallel universe Earth 3200 years back in time from ours and go explore.
Oh, who am I kidding? If we found such a portal, we'd probably just exploit the past-Earth people and take all their more numerous resources to be used on present-Earth.
Really appreciate the honesty and in-depth discussion and lecture style format 🙌 it’s informative and helpful to know the process you go through and inspires me to get educated, showing me just a bit of how to do that. Hope to see more like this
I have been following and reading about this topic for several years and got to tell you this is best synthesis and overview off all relevant data. Great presentation, looking forward to see more similar work where you use that wide field of science to cover topic!
Amazing lecture. And on that, it's a bit ironic to me (an academic in another field) that in an attempt to fix the problem of inaccuracies of outreach videos, you ended up making something that is essentially, in form, an excellent academic lecture.
The history Channel nowadays says aliens caused this, case closed.
This is fantastic!
According to Netflix it's probably a comet or something.
Thank you for sharing your journey down that rabbit hole. Excellent presentation.
That was incredible! Thank you so much. I wish I could listen to reports this good non-stop. Thank you for all the work you put in
Amazing deep dive! Thank you. The only critique I have is about the Ugaritic tablets "letter from Ammurapi". The "seven ships" of the enemy more likely refers to the different styles of ship that these "Sea Peoples" employed, and it is very unlikely referring to seven ships in total that burned his cities.
Not if you read the rest of the letter. Ammurapi's ships and defenses were elsewhere so the city was an easy target. If they were also weakened by the climate changes and other changes (as we've just seen were going on) it's' not unlikely that seven ships full of raiders could have taken the town. Smaller numbers of Viking raiders did that much damage in England much later, if you want something to compare it with. I think the so-called "sea peoples" were displaced people looking for sustenance, and they would have had to become skilled raiders. They adapted to survive.
@@ellen4956 Ugarit was not a town, it was a port city with over 772 square miles under its domain.
You may be right, there is a response from Alashiya that says 20 ships are on their way, and to fortify Ugarits walls, so maybe they were dealing with exact numbers!
This clay tablet is most likely one of a series of clay tablets detailing extensive communication between Ammurapi, king of Ugarit, Šuppiluliuma II, the last king of Hatti, Pharaoh Mernephta and Talmi-Tešub, king of Carchemish and then at last the king of Alasiya(Cyprus).
@@AYAmusic. Well, as long as I "may" be right. What you call a "port city" maybe I call a "port town". I don't know why people like you want to argue. I don't.
@@ellen4956 you responded telling me I was incorrect?
Something I've noticed already in my short time in University is that there is always a timeframe/limit.
This really pushes people to parrot what they've been told, rather than to look critically.
Because you are always encourage to make something new, rather than to critically analyse the old.
Great video with tons of well thought out content! Thank you for not just taking the easy route and making a video that just spews out the common hypothesis like all the others, I very much appreciate your hard work!
I've been following you for over a year. This is probably the BEST video I've seen. I love it.
This is bonkers. You’ve flipped my world upside down! I’ve watched probably all those other videos you’re referring to lol.
Crazy how no one is fact checking the fact checkers
They get fact checked all the time, but mostly with academic papers written for other academics.
@@konradvonschnitzeldorf6506 Hidden behind paywalls.
Pop history channels on youtube are not fact checkers, they're entertainment channels that base themselves on history and to varying degrees try to present the academic consensus to the public in a digestible format. The fact checkers are actual academics who are constantly fact checking each other, and occasionally pop culture in places like /r/BadHistory.
It's scary to think that such a sophisticated system was capable of collapsing. Another time this happened in my opinion was during the Black Death in the 14th century.
The consequences of the Black Death in Europe are fascinating: it caused the demise of the feudal system in Western Europe as the lords couldn't hold onto their remaining serfs, and resulted in oppressive regimes in Eastern Europe as the lords did everything they could to hold onto their remaining serfs. This is a divide we can still see today!
@Bramble451 you can even see it in most empires collapse. The incredible thing about the Bronze Age Collapse is that all of these empires got put through the wringer at around the same time, and most didn't make it, and because of how complicated their writing systems were literacy was highly limited and suddenly the scribes' patrons either didn't exist or couldn't afford nearly as many any more. Because of that, the written record up to this point is spotty and extremely propagandizing, and then there was some level of discontinuity in each of these societies writing wise. So, with the partial exceptions of Egypt and Assyria, none of these regions had a clear memory of their history from before the collapse, and as you can see, we're still having trouble piecing it together.
I've read books, watched documentaries and listened to podcasts on this subject. This seems to me to be the best overview of the events. And the visual aids really helped make some things clear that other sources get muddled. Thank you!