Top 4 in defensive win shares because he shared the court with 1st team all defenders in McHale and DJ, one of the best rim protectors in the 80s you bozo. Everyone knows that you shouldn't use advanced defensive stats to judge a player's defensive ability. Guys like Klay and Jrue have mediocre advanced defensive stats, I remember in 1 season Donovan Mitchell had higher Defensive win shares than Giannis and Gobert. Defensive win shares is a joke of a stat, use your actual eyes and basketball to judge defense instead of looking at basketball reference, Larry bird was average at best on that end. He was a mediocre on ball defender
Larry bird had what you call shadow defense. Just like on offense, people didn't see him coming. Hed sneak a swipe block on the back portion of a shot, or shift one way and snatch steals in passing lanes.
What do you mean TODAY? That was exposed two years ago. If you think Kobe wasn’t the best player in the world in the 2001 playoffs, you’re a casual. Shaq himself admitted Kobe was the best “on all 9 planets” after Kobe averaged 31.6/7/6.2 on 49.5% in the 2001 West playoffs including 33.3/7/7 on 53.3% in 01 WCF as Lakers swept Duncan’s Spurs.
That’s a fact, he completely understands and a lot of the time agrees with what low or marz is saying. Yet he still says they’re wrong. He said he understands the accolades can be wrong, but still the accolades tell who the player was
@@syzorstbruh he said Kobe was never the best player in the league, which is a fine opinion to have but he twists his own criteria in order to devalue Kobe
Low and Marz can easily be defeated in a debate but you guys don’t know how to DEBATE! Low and Marz aren’t these gurus of basketball, but they are great debaters and know how to debate. They do have some nasty tactics that they use. Low loves to control the debate and ask the questions, this will always appear like you are in control of the debate and you’re “winning”. Marz would be harder to debate than Low because he’s quick witted like LOW but he also trolls and idk how y’all can’t tell when he’s trolling, it’s so obvious. You can’t argue emotionally against them, they will win every time. This is why Ticket gets “cooked” by them. You have to fight fire with fire. I can logically beat both of these clowns in a debate and honestly any of you guys can too. Ignore the trolling/condescending tone and attack what they’re saying. Some of you guys don’t listen to what they say, y’all are just waiting to respond with some emotional response. Y’all let basketball reference and a British accent fool y’all but that doesn’t work on people who REALLY know basketball who can talk about it emotionally or logically and most of the time y’all argue emotionally.
Me too, but they have built up this following that even if you beat them, they have meat riders galore who will always 🧢 for them no matter the circumstance.
As long as you argue factually you have a great chance of winning any debate outside of the bias of the chat. Once you start talking from an emotional standpoint, you will lose because facts will always be greater than feelings
Michael says your wrong. LeBron says your wrong. Magic says your wrong. Isaiah says your wrong. Reggie says your wrong. Dominique says your wrong. Kareem says your wrong. Charles says your wrong. Clyde says your wrong. Gary says your wrong....
Everyone is speaking so highly of jokic not realizing that he is the closest to bird, except with worse defense than bird. People back then couldn't get it about bird just like jokic...how is this dude dominating flat flooted? Keep in mind all stats are inflated now bc of pace, and possessions. When adjusted Bird today us 28ppg 12rpg 9apg, 2spg 1.8 bpg at 49%
only player in HISTORY to average atleast 24 points, 10 rebounds and 6 assists per game for his CAREER. he ALSO shot 50/40/90 mULTIPLE seasons and led the league 4 times in DWS (defensive winshares) and came in 2nd twice or 3 times.. he is the MOST ALL AROUND PLAYER EVER with the SECOND highest winning percentage EVER.. if he is not in your top 5 then you DONT know basketball
Yeah I agree. I have to listen to people say KD is *obviously *just the better player. Comparing a man to a boy. Comparing hard to soft. These are the same people who think Tatum is better than Jimmy Butler, even though Jimmy dawgs him in the playoffs every year.
Bunch of damn stat geeks. Larry Bird was a mediocre defense and he had a bunch of playoff failures. Yall just hype him up because of his skin color. Dude played on super team just like Magic, both mediocre two way players. 80s was a trash era
@@pradayou5405 1.7 steals and .8 blocks a game.. BETTER than Kobe, Lebron, Kawhaii, Jimmy Butler.. it has nothing to do with skin (im not racist, unlike you), or era, its production. I can PROVE stats. how can you PROVE YOUR OPINION.. you CANT. lol.
@@pradayou5405 as for playoff failures. he got swept by Milwaukwee the year they FIRED their HEAD COACH.. he won the ring THE NEXT YEAR.. Jordan got swept, and then got SWEPT AGAIN.. Lebron? swept in the FINALS..
@@soramirez5473 iverson avg 2.2 steals a game, I guess he's a better defender than all of them. Answer this question how many 1st team defense selections does he have ? how many times times did he finish top in DPOY voting ? Because Lebron, Kobe, Kawhi have multiple. Also there isn't much difference between 1.3, 1.4, 1.6 and 1.7 be serious, Kobe and Lebron have more career steals than Bird.
damn that word guy was atrocious…..also why do we people assume that when we say “make Giannis play off ball more” we are saying completely take him off ball? Like he can still play the way he plays just have him play off ball more often. It’ll make him a lot more effective and it’ll make his usual game easier Edit: kenn was atrocious too wtf
Bird was the shit. He was a good defender, great shooter, great rebounder, great passer, great scorer, great free throw shooter, great 3 Pt shooter, great in the clutch, great efficiency in overall play, and great impact on the game. overall.
@@ajtalkshoops4639 The 3 Pt shot was only mastered by a few players in the 80's. Larry Bird was one of those people. He used the 3 Pt shot like a weapon not like today's players who are only volume 3 PT shooters.
Jokic didn’t win the MVP because people didn’t think the Nuggets and Jokic were going to have playoff succes. 3 time MVP out in round 2 again would be crazy. At least Bird had substantial playoff success when he won his third MVP. Jokic wasn’t head and shoulders the best player over the last three years to win it three times with NO playoff success. Precedent has always been give it to the one the hasn’t won one when it’s close. Barkley, David Robinson, Malone, KG, Dirk, 08 Kobe wasn’t his best year.
Russell is the better defender and rebounder. Bird is the better shooter, scorer, passer, playmaker, etc… I can’t get over the fact that Russell won 11 times but literally NEVER won a finals mvp. That says a lot.
55:09 because a role playing defender is more more common than a role playing scorer and most of those players are inconsistent which is why their role players to begin with
@@MarzTalksSports Is easier to find 4 defensive players(which you are looking for with or without Giannis) than to find a Kyrie Irving to give you elite playmaking. You can find defensive players to cover up for a star being mediocre defensively, but you cannot cover up mediocre playmaking. Elite playmaking is more valuable than elite defense.
@@sergeistalin7916if thats true we then get to the conundrum (in the context of luka) of a player like kyrie being less valuable next to luka due to his playstyle ultimately lowering the ceiling of the team,it appears rn that the plan for luka to be best optimised is 4 defensive players around him where he can dominate the ball,thats not a historically great way of building high level units,luka could be the exception but im doubtful
@@MarzTalksSports I agree, Kyrie isnt a good fit for Luka. And just Luka having 4 defenders and he creating all by himself like a 07 version of Lebron thats not going to work. But i think having Luka, Desmond Bane, Keldon Johnson, Christian Wood and Miles Turner and a solid bench is a contender. And thats not a crazy team. To make Giannis work you need a second star level playmaker like kyrie. My point is that is easier to find decent role players to put around Luka than role players that can achieve what Giannis needs.
@@MarzTalksSports you can do that because finding 4 is incredibly easier than 1 consistent role playing scorer Trevor Ariza is more common than Lou Williams Lukas ass to me all his numbers are because he holds the ball more than any other superstar playing rn
10+ years? Bird played 13 seasons.. 3 mvps. CONSECUTIVELY. AS WELL as the MOST ALL AROUND NUMBERS IN NBA HISTORY. TOP 2 but for me the BEST ALL AROUND PLAYER EVER. 10+ seasons? ok. bird scored over 20 points in 11 seasons, 19 points the other 2 seasons. Averaged less than 9 rebounds TWICE in 13 seasons (8.5 and 6). he averaged less than 5.5 assists TWICE in 13 seasons.. averaged less than 1.4 steals twice averaged less than .8 blocks 3x.. what other player will give you 10 years of AT LEAST 20 points/ 9 rebounds/ 5.5 assists 1.4 steals/ .8 blocks, while shooting 50/40/90 TWICE and ALMOST doing it another 2 or 3 times. WHAT OTHER PLAYERS will do ALL THAT for 10 YHEARS??????.,. oh yea 3 rings and 3 mvps back to back to back.. if bird is not in your top 5 you dont know basketball or you are racist.
@@MarzTalksSports so being the 2nd best defender on a top defnse and 1st on offense doesnt make you a 2 way player? Name another example where that's true wtf lol
@@NBA314 really? You insert bird, with bill fitch who was holding the celtics back, and they go top 4 on defense but it was the entire team? Lol tiny archibald was not defending ANYONE
Lol kareem, magic, kobe, shaq all shared thise championship low logic thqt bird because he did think bird MVP is not significant whereas he names players on his top 10 MJ, kareem, hakeem, magic are all on birds era cmon how stupid that is.
Can they stop stating larry not top 10 like its a "fact" when its clearly opinion yall sound like elementary school teacher's teaching kids ab dinosaurs larry actually has a bag and doesnt need to depend on athleticism and dribbling to score🤦🏿♂️
LOW...Word is saying the best player in the world usually influences the basketball masses like Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant and LeBron James did in their primes.
@@TdwBsuCard24 SMH... Anyone that's played basketball whether it's Streetball, High school, College, and/or Professional, etc. has been influenced by someone like for instance I was influenced to play basketball by Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf (Chris Jackson). He was the best guard at that time in College Mens Basketball from 88 - 90 averaging close to 30 points a game. So what I mean by influence is how little boys are inspired to play like MJ, Shaq, Kobe, Kareem, Kyrie, Luka, Magic, Penny, Zeke, LeBron, etc. like their heroes they see on TV, Live Stream, and/or at the Park, Arena, etc. That's why INFLUENCE matters in any sport because an athlete has a chance to inspire the next great generational player through their INFLUENCE. IJS...
@@anthonywashington2197 influence doesn’t matter in determining who’s better lmao if you think influence makes you a better player you’re dumb. Iverson was never the best player in the world and arguably has had the most influence of all time. Steph was the best in the world maybe 1-2 years and he’s influenced everyone coming up. Being influential doesn’t make you better lmao
Chill, ik you said you don’t hate him, but saying you never felt life Kobe was undeniably the best in the league, that’s not disrespectful? cmon man, that is INSANE. like this is all subjective but there’s a point where an opinion is wrong
Thank you LOW, ppl thinking he’d be like Luka in todays league like wtf then they ask me if I seen him play, mf u not 53 u never see a full game of Larry bird before either, they watching highlights and think that’s how he played all the time, he was making uncontested jumpers
Age has absolutely nothing to do with if you watched Bird or not. In fact, there are more RUclips full games available today that allows anybody who cares to watch (so not yourself) to go watch Bird.
Jordan 88-91 is inarguably his best statistical dominance and I've seen that viewed as his prime. Just goes to show one man can't win it all, a lot of primes took place outside the years of that players postseason success
Spoken like a true casual. Bird lost 5 playoff series in a 10 year prime with home court advantage BADLY underperforming in all those losses. He also has some bad finals
@@SagaTheFunniestthank you. People love to point out MJ, Kobe, Curry and Lebron's failures. But certain fans want to look past Larry Bird's post season failures. I know why certain fans look past it but I won't get political.
@@jason15212 I still think they’re decent defenders, but it’s more for people that read basketball and not watch it , they’ll see idk a 2 stl and 1 block per game and label them as the best perimeter defenders in the game and I just disagree
@@Doggydogworld289 I haven’t watched Murray as much as I did John Wall when he was in his prime. I think Wall was a really good on ball defender that took a lot of risk with trying to poke the ball free but he made up for it being an Elite roaming and shot blocker on defense. One aspect of his defense that use to frustrate me is he would let guys shoot deep threes at times almost coming off as lazy. It didn’t happen a whole lot so I kinda contributed it to him being fatigued do to the amount of responsibility he had on both sides of the ball on those wizards teams. I don’t think Wall was an overrated player or defender because quite frankly not many people talk about him or even watch the wizards to really give a fair opinion of him. I was a fan of him coming into the league so I made it a point to watch him a lot and if anything I’d say he’s underrated.
This headline had me like wtf and than thought damn Larry might not be in my top 10 but he a goat! People can say a player has great teammates but the greats know how to elevate their team. Talent alone will not do it 💯🙏🏾
@@chauvintookaknee4blm268less talent !?!?. DJ is a HOF, 5x All Star, 6x All NBA first defense. He was the Jrue Holiday of that era bro was a great two way guard, Kevin McHale is one of the greatest PFs of all time, Robert Parrish was the 3rd best C in the 80s and a 9x All star who also made the HOF. Yall just be saying anything with this nostalgia bias over the 80s. Magic and Bird played with more help than any player on LOW's top 10
@@IAMCINCINNATIMANLarry played with DJ, Parrish, McHale, and Walton (even though he was not the same player like he was with Portland) that man played with 4 HOFs and 3 of the 4 them were in their prime.
One thing ppl try to hold against KD is because Ty Lue said his game plan was to double Steph but he did that bc KD is a 7 foot shooter that was going to get his buckets no matter what. In 2018 finals… KD was the better all around player. Averaged more assists THAN CURRY, more points off less shot attempts, and was clearly the better defender. Why do we try to limits KD’s playing to scoring?
Bro,Larry bird was a brittle white man taken a beaten from big black dudes ,way stronger. That's why he didn't last as long . Don't try to hold that against him.
@@newdoo3936 call it what you want ,I don't care . It is what it is . I ain't lying . We built different. Bird is the man though . I take him over bron any day.
@@Sawyer_Bennett can you honestly say Wade wasnt better than Kobe in 2006. How can a guy who got eliminated in the first round putting up average numbers (for him) be better than a guy who had one of the greatest finals performances of all time and won the championship as the underdog
You can make the case of Kobe winning more than 1 MVP in 03 & 06 based on the historic scoring season he had. Also you can make the case for Kobe being the MVP in 2010 where Kobe made 5 GW shots & those GW shots made a difference wit the Lakers being the #1 or being the 8th seed or out of the playoffs based on how competitive the West was back then. So the GWs Kobe made in that 2010 season meant a lot if your trying to make a case for Kobe being the MVP that year
Anyone that doesn't have Bird top 10 is someone who's opinion no longer matters. It's ridiculous how many i hear about this player doing this or that player doing that as to why they are top10 but won't do the same for Bird for the same things. Bird takes the same team that only won 20 something to 40 something then by simply adding Parrish at center and McHale off the bench (not even starting) to 60+ wins and a Ring. Bird for 4 straight seasons 84-88 while only missing 16 games averaged a 50-40-90 while putting up over 28 points, 10 rebounds and 7 assists per game. Name me anyone, ANYONE close to that...I'll save you the trouble, you can't. 3 straight MVPs 3 Rings vs the Dr J/Malone 76ers, the Showtime Lakers and the bad boy Pistons. And clutch...Larry was so clutch people were 10 times more shocked when Bird missed that game winner in the Finals vs the Lakers. Bird was one of, if not the most skilled and fundamentally perfect players ever. If you don't realize this, I honestly don't know what fucking sport you're watching.
Stat nerd alert. I love how you undermine the impact of Parrish, McHale, and DJ. All 3 were multiple time All stars who made the HOF, all 3 also did a phenomenal job if hiding Bird's medicore defense. Not to mention Larry Bird has had many playoff failures in the 80s. Yall love to complain about other playoff failures but always sweep Bird's under the rug.
Thanks Low for telling the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth about Larry Bird because most people are afraid to say anything negative about him.
Kobe in 15 all nba seasons 1 MVP 13 playoffs 7 finals 5 championships (back to back TWICE) 2 FMVP Bird in 10 all nba seasons 3 MVP (3 straight) 10 playoffs 5 finals 3 championships (never back to back) 2 FMVP He wasn’t better than Kobe
younger people shouldnt be able to comment, i see all the young bucks on the panel putting guys in top 20 who is no way shape or form belong in there, and they do this because they didnt live thru guys in the 80's
low is one of the most knowledgeable people on youtube, have you even watched his channel?? he watches almost every game. y'all the ones driven my basketball narratives
@@devoremboHe thinks Bird is not top 10 and you’re ironically arguing for his basketball knowledge LMFAO Low and Marz have really tricked y’all. They are not as knowledgeable as y’all think, they’re just great debaters. There’s a difference.
Y’all can read my comment & talk about it on the next episode of The Panel, “Cooper Flagg will be the best prospect coming to the NBA and Cooper Flagg is better than Victor Wembanyama”
@@MarzTalksSports Embiid being overrated doesn’t need to be talked about, it’s self explanatory. But Cooper Flagg, I see the potential before anybody else. The way you see Jalen Green is the same way I see Cooper Flagg
@@MarzTalksSports Cooper Flagg can’t be compared to other white guys like Chandler Parsons, Gordon Hayward and Andrei Kirilenko, that’s a lazy comparison. Cooper should be compared to KD & Giannis cause that’s who he plays like the most
Kevin Durant was better than Steph then and all time. He can produce just as many point for his team. Bro averaged more assist than Steph in the finals but Steph was gettin double team ???but Steph is the greatest point guard 😑 KD can rebound and block shots as a wing player... plus he’s more clutch. That’s why he better than curry and the real reason is in 2018 KD tried his hardest to give Steph the finals MVP and he still outperformed curry. … on accident.
That sound dumb. How the hell you can give someone a fmvp. Curry was hitting those shots himself, it wasnt Kd picking him up lmao. Where was all this when Kd got swept in round one?? He didn't produce shit. Dude had to run and create another superteam just to have a chance again.
If KD is better than why can’t he win anything without Steph. Steph has won before and after him LD hasn’t done anything but lose 😂 where was that point production when he was clamped by JT bro lost with Russ and kyrie curry won with Andrew Wiggins 😂😂😂😂
Steph literally missed the playoffs in his prime but y’all shitting on KD against the eastern finals team, there was injury and match ups that stopped him and playing with Russ bum ass, plus Steph had a more consistent and better team around him with a GM that would literally cheat and go over the salary into luxury tax to win.
Do know what you are talking about. Curry better bring the ball up than Bird. Curry is a guard Bird is a forward. His role was not to bring the ball up. I am glad you brought up the 86 Celtics. Then DJ. You think Curry would be doing is thing against them . 😊
@@B4dafam Marz is LOW 2.0 with a British accent and trolling gimmick idk why y’all take him seriously lmao. Accolades will always matter in some form or faction. Marz and Low are just great debaters but there arguments have lots of flaws that many people don’t pick up on. This “accolades don’t matter” narrative they’re pushing hard right now can easily be debunked by me or you or anyone who can logically argue with them. Most guys who debate them are emotional in there arguments and don’t actually listen to what LOW and Marz say but they can both be “cooked”. I’ve seen Pirate give LOW that work. I’ve seen Ox have Marz flustered, it can be done.
Low just wrong jimmy butler has prove all the time he’s him in the playoffs he just hates jimmy butler and another thing Low and Marz it’s all hypothetical u wouldn’t know how y’all would think about Jordan in the 90s winning his first 3peat he would be in most people goat conversations but to dismiss y’all wouldn’t call him that is all hypothetical
I agree that Jordan peaked in the 80s. His performance proves it. MJ won a MVP in 88. His team sucked but you don’t put up those kind of numbers outside of your peak. If he was winning more games no one would question his peak. Basketball is a team sport. The roster sucked but MJ was HIM in 88.
Maybe he said peak only. We know how he is about transcendent players and KG was way more of a transcendent defensive player in his peak than Kobe was on the other end.
@@lucianodadon7822Man, Kobe dickriders just lose any ability to comprehend basic sentences, huh? I don't agree with LOW, just explained what he meant. Someone else not meat munching a player like you do isn't hate either.
Also if you think, a non-passing, slight above average efficiency player can ever have an offensive ceiling as high as the defensive ceiling of the most ridiculously well rounded defensive player ever, then maybe reevaluate.
It means your play wasn't as valuable as someone that pushed their team to the top spot. I'm more interested in what you prioritize when making your list, because in all honesty your list is garbage.
If your going by the case of Jokic still getting credit being an MVP caliber player this year, then Harden should get more credit as a player cause you can make the case Harden was an MVP in 2015, 2017 and 2019, so you talking about a 4 time MVP, how does Harden legacy change being a 4 time MVP
@@MarzTalksSportsmeh. All-time defender with quality offensive ability but I don’t think that supersedes KD’s offensive elite level efficiency during his prime that resulted in quite a handful deep playoff runs
@@kambuibomani231It’s easy to have a deep playoff run while having immense talent on your team, especially compared to KG. Overall it’s a close call but it’s not wild imo. I’ll give Kd a lot of credit for 2012 his efficiency was absolutely stellar. 2021 was great as well. And obviously 2017 and 2018 but I tax that a lot when it comes to judging Kd as a player. The thing is about Durant is that he’s either extremely hot one night and very Luke warm on others. Obv he’s not completely cold like a James harden, but some nights he just forces shots up that he just shouldn’t shoot and relies on a few moves and shots too much. In important moments in games he tends to shoot bricks from three as well in the playoffs. But what’s also so impressive is that the nights he is extremely hot, he makes the craziest shots.
@@yofat696I think KD’s OKC tenure alone gives him the edge over KG especially during a time where Russ wasn’t the most reliable floor spacer and offensive decision maker. For Durant to still have those point outputs, the efficiency and playoff success despite the lack of spacing is a W in itself
“When bird wasnt scoring I still found Immense value in Larry birds off ball movement” immense value ??? y’all love overrating everything besides scoring. what is Larry bird doing off ball and how is that giving his team IMMENSE VALUE. Which mean HUGE VALUE?? What is he doing that no other forward doesn’t do off ball. Who directly did he help? Y’all do the same with Steph. How exactly does they off ball play lead to others scoring? And how are you watching a basketball game and watching off the ball. ?? I’m so confused
Well there's plenty videos that breakdown how Curry create for his team off ball. You have to watch what he does. He's mot just running around for nothing
“How are you watching a basketball game and watching off the ball” Uhhh so you can see Plays developing, Defensive coverages, Etc. You see more when you aren’t only watching the guy with the ball.
@@MarzTalksSports so your not watching the game . Your scouting a player and lookin for critiques and criticism.. not the game. That’s why I call y’all coaches, not analysts. Not fans. Y’all are watching 1 player and missing everything else. That’s why I never hear about off ball movement or gravity for role players
Word is correct. There's probably nothing that pisses me off more than the love Giannis gets. he can just suck in the half-court in the playoffs. Best player over the past 2-3 years? 2nd to Jokic? 1st or second best player right now? He failed in the playoffs every year aside from 2021, resume speaks for itself. Playoff half court offense is.. pretty important. It's actually so important. He actually got gentleman swept by the heat, and he's not better than Steph Curry. I personally have him 4th behind Luka and Curry.
Low top 10 is jsut as credible as chi11s. LOW why isn’t Kobe top 3??? “Becuz he did so much to stop his team from winning “ the dumbest take ever. Like Tim Duncan purposely sitting out didn’t hurt his team or hurt the league. How many freethrows were missed at the end of games??? Didn’t Timmy miss a open lay up to win a championship??? Yeah but Kobe stopped his team from winning. Kobe the man wit the most championships this millennium?! Okay. No need to mention lebron and his many bad series before Miami. Hakeem over shaq makes no sense either. But that’s another comment. It’s low favorite TOP 10. Not a credible one
@@MOCskoden they don’t have better peaks. They didn’t average 35 plus and make the all defensive team. LOW is not an accolade guy so he’s only talking about production and impact and nor of those guys outscored a championship team in 3 quarters. Try another reason
@@MOCskodenKobe played at his peak longer than kareem and Duncan , Duncan played at his peak for like 3 years , kobe played at the same level at least 5 years 06-10 I’d argue from 2000-2010.. and kareem missed the playoffs with a playoff caliber team in his peak 😂
Hakeem over Shaq makes perfect sense. Better rebounder, clearly better defense, not liability at FT line. Shaq scoring a few more points that’s not overcome everything thing else Hakeem provides.
Early career 29(worst) wins to 62(second best) wins first season. Bird was top 4 in defensive win shares. Bird was an underrated defender by miles.
Top 4 in defensive win shares because he shared the court with 1st team all defenders in McHale and DJ, one of the best rim protectors in the 80s you bozo. Everyone knows that you shouldn't use advanced defensive stats to judge a player's defensive ability. Guys like Klay and Jrue have mediocre advanced defensive stats, I remember in 1 season Donovan Mitchell had higher Defensive win shares than Giannis and Gobert. Defensive win shares is a joke of a stat, use your actual eyes and basketball to judge defense instead of looking at basketball reference, Larry bird was average at best on that end. He was a mediocre on ball defender
Bro said defensive shares 😂 yeah you’re a Jimmy high roller fan 100%. That nigga is ruining the basketball community
Bird top 5, maybe 3. I’ll die on that hill
Larry bird had what you call shadow defense. Just like on offense, people didn't see him coming. Hed sneak a swipe block on the back portion of a shot, or shift one way and snatch steals in passing lanes.
Chills Kobe hate was exposed today
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Mmmmmmmmmmmm
Time stamp?
@@Clutch67892:23:00
What do you mean TODAY? That was exposed two years ago. If you think Kobe wasn’t the best player in the world in the 2001 playoffs, you’re a casual. Shaq himself admitted Kobe was the best “on all 9 planets” after Kobe averaged 31.6/7/6.2 on 49.5% in the 2001 West playoffs including 33.3/7/7 on 53.3% in 01 WCF as Lakers swept Duncan’s Spurs.
This was one of the best streams on this show just straight hoop talks i really enjoyed i stayed on till the end
Is Low the only one that’s always looking at his computer? 😂
He looking at the panel. He has multiple monitors
Basketball reference merchant
@@dribblewarrior315No he literally looks at his screen for stats all stream because he can’t debate without it
CHILL JUST SOLIDIFIED HIS KOBE HATE 😂😂😂😂😂 OMG THIS IS A CLASSIC 🥲
Shaq attack
@MarzTalksSports I hope you aren't actually considering quiting youtube. I genuinely look forward to the weekend hoop talk.
He said he was???
When did he say that?
@@corruptarrow1585 right when the stream was cutting off
Each stream makes me question chill even more ngl
He def has the lowest IQ, he’s just loud and a Lebron rider
That’s a fact, he completely understands and a lot of the time agrees with what low or marz is saying. Yet he still says they’re wrong. He said he understands the accolades can be wrong, but still the accolades tell who the player was
Marz needs to learn some ball and get off of basketball reference he only knows MATHSKETBALL and narratives watch the game buddy
im cooked again
Chill continue to expose himself as the biggest Kobe hater ever
Why? It never ceases to amaze me how Kobe fans claims that someone is hating just because he doesn't have Kobe rank as high as you want him to.
@@syzorstbruh he said Kobe was never the best player in the league, which is a fine opinion to have but he twists his own criteria in order to devalue Kobe
Low and Marz can easily be defeated in a debate but you guys don’t know how to DEBATE! Low and Marz aren’t these gurus of basketball, but they are great debaters and know how to debate. They do have some nasty tactics that they use. Low loves to control the debate and ask the questions, this will always appear like you are in control of the debate and you’re “winning”. Marz would be harder to debate than Low because he’s quick witted like LOW but he also trolls and idk how y’all can’t tell when he’s trolling, it’s so obvious.
You can’t argue emotionally against them, they will win every time. This is why Ticket gets “cooked” by them. You have to fight fire with fire. I can logically beat both of these clowns in a debate and honestly any of you guys can too. Ignore the trolling/condescending tone and attack what they’re saying. Some of you guys don’t listen to what they say, y’all are just waiting to respond with some emotional response. Y’all let basketball reference and a British accent fool y’all but that doesn’t work on people who REALLY know basketball who can talk about it emotionally or logically and most of the time y’all argue emotionally.
Me too, but they have built up this following that even if you beat them, they have meat riders galore who will always 🧢 for them no matter the circumstance.
@@tayluc777 yeah that chat is childish af ngl
As long as you argue factually you have a great chance of winning any debate outside of the bias of the chat. Once you start talking from an emotional standpoint, you will lose because facts will always be greater than feelings
Then why don't you jump in open gym and debate them?
Michael says your wrong. LeBron says your wrong. Magic says your wrong. Isaiah says your wrong. Reggie says your wrong. Dominique says your wrong. Kareem says your wrong. Charles says your wrong. Clyde says your wrong. Gary says your wrong....
marz's mood just flipped when he found out chill wasnt here to yell at low about larry bird
Everyone is speaking so highly of jokic not realizing that he is the closest to bird, except with worse defense than bird. People back then couldn't get it about bird just like jokic...how is this dude dominating flat flooted?
Keep in mind all stats are inflated now bc of pace, and possessions. When adjusted Bird today us 28ppg 12rpg 9apg, 2spg 1.8 bpg at 49%
only player in HISTORY to average atleast 24 points, 10 rebounds and 6 assists per game for his CAREER. he ALSO shot 50/40/90 mULTIPLE seasons and led the league 4 times in DWS (defensive winshares) and came in 2nd twice or 3 times.. he is the MOST ALL AROUND PLAYER EVER with the SECOND highest winning percentage EVER.. if he is not in your top 5 then you DONT know basketball
Yeah I agree. I have to listen to people say KD is *obviously *just the better player. Comparing a man to a boy. Comparing hard to soft. These are the same people who think Tatum is better than Jimmy Butler, even though Jimmy dawgs him in the playoffs every year.
Bunch of damn stat geeks. Larry Bird was a mediocre defense and he had a bunch of playoff failures. Yall just hype him up because of his skin color. Dude played on super team just like Magic, both mediocre two way players. 80s was a trash era
@@pradayou5405 1.7 steals and .8 blocks a game.. BETTER than Kobe, Lebron, Kawhaii, Jimmy Butler.. it has nothing to do with skin (im not racist, unlike you), or era, its production. I can PROVE stats. how can you PROVE YOUR OPINION.. you CANT. lol.
@@pradayou5405 as for playoff failures. he got swept by Milwaukwee the year they FIRED their HEAD COACH.. he won the ring THE NEXT YEAR.. Jordan got swept, and then got SWEPT AGAIN.. Lebron? swept in the FINALS..
@@soramirez5473 iverson avg 2.2 steals a game, I guess he's a better defender than all of them. Answer this question how many 1st team defense selections does he have ? how many times times did he finish top in DPOY voting ? Because Lebron, Kobe, Kawhi have multiple. Also there isn't much difference between 1.3, 1.4, 1.6 and 1.7 be serious, Kobe and Lebron have more career steals than Bird.
damn that word guy was atrocious…..also why do we people assume that when we say “make Giannis play off ball more” we are saying completely take him off ball? Like he can still play the way he plays just have him play off ball more often. It’ll make him a lot more effective and it’ll make his usual game easier
Edit: kenn was atrocious too wtf
Bird was the shit. He was a good defender, great shooter, great rebounder, great passer, great scorer, great free throw shooter, great 3 Pt shooter, great in the clutch, great efficiency in overall play, and great impact on the game. overall.
Great 3 pt shooter on 3 attempts a game? Yeah you’re smoking
@@ajtalkshoops4639 The 3 Pt shot was only mastered by a few players in the 80's. Larry Bird was one of those people. He used the 3 Pt shot like a weapon not like today's players who are only volume 3 PT shooters.
didnt Bird win 3 pointer contest 3 years inrow?@@ajtalkshoops4639
@@anthonywashington2197wdym only volume three point shooters, there are multiple shooters that have better efficiency and volume then bird
@@anthonywashington2197 like weapon???? 32% foh😂😂😂
Jokic didn’t win the MVP because people didn’t think the Nuggets and Jokic were going to have playoff succes. 3 time MVP out in round 2 again would be crazy. At least Bird had substantial playoff success when he won his third MVP. Jokic wasn’t head and shoulders the best player over the last three years to win it three times with NO playoff success. Precedent has always been give it to the one the hasn’t won one when it’s close. Barkley, David Robinson, Malone, KG, Dirk, 08 Kobe wasn’t his best year.
What success does embid have ? Just shut up
That is a stupid way of voting
i have mj as the goat, but facts are facts, even old larry bird owned jordan
Besides Chill hating on Kobe he be cooking.
Disagree on bill Russell. Bird is very underrated on defense in the context we're using. 15ppg on 41% or 44% isnt getting it in any era
If Bird was bad then Jordan sucked because the Celtics ran through the Bulls lol.
I like when Marz gets to talk to Chill when they off the panel
Bill Russell over Bird is wild
🤣
11 rings man 😭
How is it wild?
3 rings < needing 3 hands to count your rings
Russell is the better defender and rebounder. Bird is the better shooter, scorer, passer, playmaker, etc… I can’t get over the fact that Russell won 11 times but literally NEVER won a finals mvp. That says a lot.
55:09 because a role playing defender is more more common than a role playing scorer and most of those players are inconsistent which is why their role players to begin with
Did u ignore the point where ur supplementing poor defense with 4 players but flawed offense with one?
@@MarzTalksSports Is easier to find 4 defensive players(which you are looking for with or without Giannis) than to find a Kyrie Irving to give you elite playmaking.
You can find defensive players to cover up for a star being mediocre defensively, but you cannot cover up mediocre playmaking. Elite playmaking is more valuable than elite defense.
@@sergeistalin7916if thats true we then get to the conundrum (in the context of luka) of a player like kyrie being less valuable next to luka due to his playstyle ultimately lowering the ceiling of the team,it appears rn that the plan for luka to be best optimised is 4 defensive players around him where he can dominate the ball,thats not a historically great way of building high level units,luka could be the exception but im doubtful
@@MarzTalksSports I agree, Kyrie isnt a good fit for Luka. And just Luka having 4 defenders and he creating all by himself like a 07 version of Lebron thats not going to work.
But i think having Luka, Desmond Bane, Keldon Johnson, Christian Wood and Miles Turner and a solid bench is a contender. And thats not a crazy team.
To make Giannis work you need a second star level playmaker like kyrie. My point is that is easier to find decent role players to put around Luka than role players that can achieve what Giannis needs.
@@MarzTalksSports you can do that because finding 4 is incredibly easier than 1 consistent role playing scorer Trevor Ariza is more common than Lou Williams Lukas ass to me all his numbers are because he holds the ball more than any other superstar playing rn
10+ years? Bird played 13 seasons.. 3 mvps. CONSECUTIVELY. AS WELL as the MOST ALL AROUND NUMBERS IN NBA HISTORY. TOP 2 but for me the BEST ALL AROUND PLAYER EVER. 10+ seasons? ok. bird scored over 20 points in 11 seasons, 19 points the other 2 seasons. Averaged less than 9 rebounds TWICE in 13 seasons (8.5 and 6).
he averaged less than 5.5 assists TWICE in 13 seasons..
averaged less than 1.4 steals twice
averaged less than .8 blocks 3x..
what other player will give you 10 years of AT LEAST 20 points/ 9 rebounds/ 5.5 assists
1.4 steals/ .8 blocks, while shooting 50/40/90 TWICE and ALMOST doing it another 2 or 3 times. WHAT OTHER PLAYERS will do ALL THAT for 10 YHEARS??????.,.
oh yea 3 rings and 3 mvps back to back to back..
if bird is not in your top 5 you dont know basketball or you are racist.
Name the top defenders on the celtics 1980 and tell me bird is not a 2 way player lol
Bird is not a 2 way player
He's not really a two-way player. It's just that the entire team was pretty solid at defending and that they worked together really well.
@@MarzTalksSports so being the 2nd best defender on a top defnse and 1st on offense doesnt make you a 2 way player? Name another example where that's true wtf lol
@@NBA314 really? You insert bird, with bill fitch who was holding the celtics back, and they go top 4 on defense but it was the entire team? Lol tiny archibald was not defending ANYONE
@@bboywolfMcHale Parish DJ how the hell was the 2nd best defender ?
Bruh was saying KD got jumped like he was jiraiya in 2022
Stop the cap. Of course Larry is top 10
Lol kareem, magic, kobe, shaq all shared thise championship low logic thqt bird because he did think bird MVP is not significant whereas he names players on his top 10 MJ, kareem, hakeem, magic are all on birds era cmon how stupid that is.
Can they stop stating larry not top 10 like its a "fact" when its clearly opinion yall sound like elementary school teacher's teaching kids ab dinosaurs larry actually has a bag and doesnt need to depend on athleticism and dribbling to score🤦🏿♂️
Peak R9 over peak Messi LMAOOO
Time stamp
Peak R9 was one of the best strikers ever
LOW...Word is saying the best player in the world usually influences the basketball masses like Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant and LeBron James did in their primes.
That’s a dumb argument, influence shouldn’t be a determining factor in being best in the world
@@TdwBsuCard24 SMH... Anyone that's played basketball whether it's Streetball, High school, College, and/or Professional, etc. has been influenced by someone like for instance I was influenced to play basketball by Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf (Chris Jackson). He was the best guard at that time in College Mens Basketball from 88 - 90 averaging close to 30 points a game. So what I mean by influence is how little boys are inspired to play like MJ, Shaq, Kobe, Kareem, Kyrie, Luka, Magic, Penny, Zeke, LeBron, etc. like their heroes they see on TV, Live Stream, and/or at the Park, Arena, etc. That's why INFLUENCE matters in any sport because an athlete has a chance to inspire the next great generational player through their INFLUENCE. IJS...
@@anthonywashington2197 influence doesn’t matter in determining who’s better lmao if you think influence makes you a better player you’re dumb. Iverson was never the best player in the world and arguably has had the most influence of all time. Steph was the best in the world maybe 1-2 years and he’s influenced everyone coming up. Being influential doesn’t make you better lmao
Chill, ik you said you don’t hate him, but saying you never felt life Kobe was undeniably the best in the league, that’s not disrespectful? cmon man, that is INSANE. like this is all subjective but there’s a point where an opinion is wrong
When was he the best? What years?
How would anyone take steph over Bird?
Thank you LOW, ppl thinking he’d be like Luka in todays league like wtf then they ask me if I seen him play, mf u not 53 u never see a full game of Larry bird before either, they watching highlights and think that’s how he played all the time, he was making uncontested jumpers
Age has absolutely nothing to do with if you watched Bird or not. In fact, there are more RUclips full games available today that allows anybody who cares to watch (so not yourself) to go watch Bird.
@@YER3721u capeing for dude u never even watched live like bro stop riding
@@448DamonXXright cause apparently footage dosent exist
@@gmvdmvn no just stick to your era bro like stop bigging up old players who played in converse
Bird has some of the best highlights I’ve ever seen what are talking about.
Accolades are only diminished by people who don’t have any accolades. Sports talk is getting strange
Fact
U aint seen my basketball reference page
Jordan 88-91 is inarguably his best statistical dominance and I've seen that viewed as his prime. Just goes to show one man can't win it all, a lot of primes took place outside the years of that players postseason success
We have real reason to knock KOBE so they make things up that has nothing to do with basketball.
-LOW, CHI11
Low is low IQ. He really just pretending
Anyone without Larry in their top 10 knows absolutely NOTHING about basketball
It’s not 2000s anymore 2023 people leaped above him . Not a bad thing lmao that many great players
Spoken like a true casual. Bird lost 5 playoff series in a 10 year prime with home court advantage BADLY underperforming in all those losses. He also has some bad finals
@@SagaTheFunniestthank you. People love to point out MJ, Kobe, Curry and Lebron's failures. But certain fans want to look past Larry Bird's post season failures. I know why certain fans look past it but I won't get political.
Hot take
Big guards with high stocks
John wall
Shai
Dejounte Murray
Are the most overrated archetype of defenders in the history of the nba
COOOOOOOOK
@@MarzTalksSportsidk if this is troll Marz or not but if your fr appreciate 🫡😂
How come?
@@jason15212 I still think they’re decent defenders, but it’s more for people that read basketball and not watch it , they’ll see idk a 2 stl and 1 block per game and label them as the best perimeter defenders in the game and I just disagree
@@Doggydogworld289 I haven’t watched Murray as much as I did John Wall when he was in his prime. I think Wall was a really good on ball defender that took a lot of risk with trying to poke the ball free but he made up for it being an Elite roaming and shot blocker on defense. One aspect of his defense that use to frustrate me is he would let guys shoot deep threes at times almost coming off as lazy. It didn’t happen a whole lot so I kinda contributed it to him being fatigued do to the amount of responsibility he had on both sides of the ball on those wizards teams. I don’t think Wall was an overrated player or defender because quite frankly not many people talk about him or even watch the wizards to really give a fair opinion of him. I was a fan of him coming into the league so I made it a point to watch him a lot and if anything I’d say he’s underrated.
This headline had me like wtf and than thought damn Larry might not be in my top 10 but he a goat! People can say a player has great teammates but the greats know how to elevate their team. Talent alone will not do it 💯🙏🏾
He had less talent in his era than anyone else except Kobe or kawhi
@@chauvintookaknee4blm268 right! Lebron with dwade and bosh and love and kyrie and Davis and I am suppose to be surprised he got longevity! FOH!
@@chauvintookaknee4blm268less talent !?!?. DJ is a HOF, 5x All Star, 6x All NBA first defense. He was the Jrue Holiday of that era bro was a great two way guard, Kevin McHale is one of the greatest PFs of all time, Robert Parrish was the 3rd best C in the 80s and a 9x All star who also made the HOF. Yall just be saying anything with this nostalgia bias over the 80s. Magic and Bird played with more help than any player on LOW's top 10
@@IAMCINCINNATIMANLarry played with DJ, Parrish, McHale, and Walton (even though he was not the same player like he was with Portland) that man played with 4 HOFs and 3 of the 4 them were in their prime.
Its wild that kg doesnt get called out for not making it out the 1st round..legit had to join two all nba players and a weaker conference to win
So you didn’t listen to anything they said about KG
He made the conference finals before the Celtics actually
2:23:00 @tickettv this yo man’s? Talking about Kobe like this ?
Damn im mad I missed the stream, I would’ve pushed my KD top 10 agenda. Low lowkey got the same top 10 as me except for one player
Snakes with a weak mental makeup don't make the top 20 tf you talking bout.
@@zachphillips7997 please kindly hop off
@ColeSpeaks103 running to a team you choke a 3-1 lead to lmao.
@@zachphillips7997 and still commenting unprovoked
@@ColeSpeaks103 deleting comments lmao
Larry Bird is top 10. You can argue 10th but he’s not out of the Top 10 sorry. Bird and Magic saved basketball.
One thing ppl try to hold against KD is because Ty Lue said his game plan was to double Steph but he did that bc KD is a 7 foot shooter that was going to get his buckets no matter what.
In 2018 finals…
KD was the better all around player. Averaged more assists THAN CURRY, more points off less shot attempts, and was clearly the better defender. Why do we try to limits KD’s playing to scoring?
No if u read and watched the whole thing Ty Lue actually said that Steph was the most dangerous on that team
Also just because kd averaged more in the finals doesn't mean he was better, and Steph was a better playmaker and passer
Kd only played the best he wasn't the best, cause if so dbook was better than kd cause of these playoffs 🤷🤷🤷
@@yetundeadeyemi2436 ur right but dbook was better last playoffs than kd
Durability absolutely matters especially in the playoffs. It's what made Isiah Thomas (Detroit Pistons) so special.
Bro,Larry bird was a brittle white man taken a beaten from big black dudes ,way stronger. That's why he didn't last as long . Don't try to hold that against him.
@@russellgeorge433worst argument too use lol
@@kezwane9555 no it ain't. It is what it is. Sorry he wasn't on peds like bron lmao.
@@russellgeorge433borderline racist argument wth
@@newdoo3936 call it what you want ,I don't care . It is what it is . I ain't lying . We built different. Bird is the man though . I take him over bron any day.
I really almost guessed LOW’s top 10 😅 I thought he had Duncan > Kareem
My boy moc 😹😹😹 its chazz
@@ChozenNegus777CHAZZZZZZ
Larry Bird is NOT Top 10. Yes, because Larry top 2 all time.
Mvp level is a disingenuous argument how can you be mvp level if you didn’t win mvp ? How can you play a championship level and not win the ring ?
For me:
MJ
Bron
Kareem
Tim
Kobe
Hakeem
Steph
Shaq
Magic
Russell
Kobe was the best from 2008-2010. Adressing the questionable years, 2001-2002 is shaq, 2003-2005 is duncan, 2006 is wade, 2007 is lebron, 2011 is dirk
Wade was never better than Kobe in Kobe’s prime 😭
@@Sawyer_Bennett can you honestly say Wade wasnt better than Kobe in 2006. How can a guy who got eliminated in the first round putting up average numbers (for him) be better than a guy who had one of the greatest finals performances of all time and won the championship as the underdog
You can make the case of Kobe winning more than 1 MVP in 03 & 06 based on the historic scoring season he had.
Also you can make the case for Kobe being the MVP in 2010 where Kobe made 5 GW shots & those GW shots made a difference wit the Lakers being the #1 or being the 8th seed or out of the playoffs based on how competitive the West was back then. So the GWs Kobe made in that 2010 season meant a lot if your trying to make a case for Kobe being the MVP that year
Anyone that doesn't have Bird top 10 is someone who's opinion no longer matters.
It's ridiculous how many i hear about this player doing this or that player doing that as to why they are top10 but won't do the same for Bird for the same things.
Bird takes the same team that only won 20 something to 40 something then by simply adding Parrish at center and McHale off the bench (not even starting) to 60+ wins and a Ring.
Bird for 4 straight seasons 84-88 while only missing 16 games averaged a 50-40-90 while putting up over 28 points, 10 rebounds and 7 assists per game. Name me anyone, ANYONE close to that...I'll save you the trouble, you can't.
3 straight MVPs
3 Rings vs the Dr J/Malone 76ers, the Showtime Lakers and the bad boy Pistons.
And clutch...Larry was so clutch people were 10 times more shocked when Bird missed that game winner in the Finals vs the Lakers.
Bird was one of, if not the most skilled and fundamentally perfect players ever. If you don't realize this, I honestly don't know what fucking sport you're watching.
Stat nerd alert. I love how you undermine the impact of Parrish, McHale, and DJ. All 3 were multiple time All stars who made the HOF, all 3 also did a phenomenal job if hiding Bird's medicore defense. Not to mention Larry Bird has had many playoff failures in the 80s. Yall love to complain about other playoff failures but always sweep Bird's under the rug.
Thanks Low for telling the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth about Larry Bird because most people are afraid to say anything negative about him.
🤦
Trollll
Bird played for the title every year. Way better than Kobe
Kobe in 15 all nba seasons
1 MVP
13 playoffs
7 finals
5 championships (back to back TWICE)
2 FMVP
Bird in 10 all nba seasons
3 MVP (3 straight)
10 playoffs
5 finals
3 championships (never back to back)
2 FMVP
He wasn’t better than Kobe
How is kg suppose to score more with more talent around him? Lowe . SHUUUUUUUUT UP.
😂
The entire show was shiting on accolades then Marz defended Jordan not passing Reem of STRICTLY accolades
Who's better Paul Goasl or Clay cause I think if you give Shaq like a person like Clay elite three point shooter and good def he could win
Amazing episode
younger people shouldnt be able to comment, i see all the young bucks on the panel putting guys in top 20 who is no way shape or form belong in there, and they do this because they didnt live thru guys in the 80's
Low literally just pulls up Basketball Reference and makes claims surrounded by the numbers he’s looking at.
low is one of the most knowledgeable people on youtube, have you even watched his channel?? he watches almost every game. y'all the ones driven my basketball narratives
@@devorembostop glazing my man
@@devoremboHe thinks Bird is not top 10 and you’re ironically arguing for his basketball knowledge LMFAO Low and Marz have really tricked y’all. They are not as knowledgeable as y’all think, they’re just great debaters. There’s a difference.
@@adripos big facts these dudes are minions.
He was 2nd 4 other times. How about you ask the players you have ahead of him what they think?
I'd take Oscar over Steph. No mention of Oscar Robertson in any of these things.
How about winning %?
Y’all can read my comment & talk about it on the next episode of The Panel, “Cooper Flagg will be the best prospect coming to the NBA and Cooper Flagg is better than Victor Wembanyama”
idk whats more common u talkin ab cooper flagg being the next goat or u saying embiid is overrated
@@MarzTalksSports Embiid being overrated doesn’t need to be talked about, it’s self explanatory.
But Cooper Flagg, I see the potential before anybody else. The way you see Jalen Green is the same way I see Cooper Flagg
@@MarzTalksSports Cooper Flagg can’t be compared to other white guys like Chandler Parsons, Gordon Hayward and Andrei Kirilenko, that’s a lazy comparison. Cooper should be compared to KD & Giannis cause that’s who he plays like the most
Ask the coaches.
I don’t believe that Larry Bird is top 5, nor is he better than LeBron. There are a lot of Bird glazers that take it too far. But not top 10?
the title of this vid is laughable, bird is top 3 and one can argue he is the goat
Kevin Durant was better than Steph then and all time. He can produce just as many point for his team. Bro averaged more assist than Steph in the finals but Steph was gettin double team ???but Steph is the greatest point guard 😑 KD can rebound and block shots as a wing player... plus he’s more clutch. That’s why he better than curry and the real reason is in 2018 KD tried his hardest to give Steph the finals MVP and he still outperformed curry. … on accident.
That sound dumb. How the hell you can give someone a fmvp. Curry was hitting those shots himself, it wasnt Kd picking him up lmao. Where was all this when Kd got swept in round one??
He didn't produce shit. Dude had to run and create another superteam just to have a chance again.
If KD is better than why can’t he win anything without Steph. Steph has won before and after him LD hasn’t done anything but lose 😂 where was that point production when he was clamped by JT bro lost with Russ and kyrie curry won with Andrew Wiggins 😂😂😂😂
So do you think that Stockton gets doubled more than LeBron cause he has more assists wtf bro calls himself greatest
W Take
Steph literally missed the playoffs in his prime but y’all shitting on KD against the eastern finals team, there was injury and match ups that stopped him and playing with Russ bum ass, plus Steph had a more consistent and better team around him with a GM that would literally cheat and go over the salary into luxury tax to win.
Larry birds peak is not better than Kobe’s. Still love your content tho, Low!
Bro, you have zero credit as a hoop analyst.
Do know what you are talking about. Curry better bring the ball up than Bird. Curry is a guard Bird is a forward. His role was not to bring the ball up. I am glad you brought up the 86 Celtics. Then DJ. You think Curry would be doing is thing against them . 😊
1:33:56 it’s sick how y’all pick at crumbs to devalue Kobe man 😂😂 these dudes say anything
Birds peak was better than Kobe....... AYOOOOO🤣🤣🤣😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Scoring titles aren't accolades to me. Most accolades are voted on. No one votes on how many points u get to score
This was a very dumb take. If you score the most points in the nba you get the award no one hands it to you you have to earn it
@@YonkoBlackbeardyou just agreed with him lmao can you read?
@@adripos I think he may have been calling the fact that marz kept calling it an accolade a dumb take
@@B4dafam Marz is LOW 2.0 with a British accent and trolling gimmick idk why y’all take him seriously lmao. Accolades will always matter in some form or faction. Marz and Low are just great debaters but there arguments have lots of flaws that many people don’t pick up on. This “accolades don’t matter” narrative they’re pushing hard right now can easily be debunked by me or you or anyone who can logically argue with them. Most guys who debate them are emotional in there arguments and don’t actually listen to what LOW and Marz say but they can both be “cooked”. I’ve seen Pirate give LOW that work. I’ve seen Ox have Marz flustered, it can be done.
@@YonkoBlackbeardlol😂fact
Low just wrong jimmy butler has prove all the time he’s him in the playoffs he just hates jimmy butler and another thing Low and Marz it’s all hypothetical u wouldn’t know how y’all would think about Jordan in the 90s winning his first 3peat he would be in most people goat conversations but to dismiss y’all wouldn’t call him that is all hypothetical
definitely hypothetical. but based on my values im certain im not calling anyone with at most 8 elite seasons the goat
I agree that Jordan peaked in the 80s. His performance proves it. MJ won a MVP in 88. His team sucked but you don’t put up those kind of numbers outside of your peak. If he was winning more games no one would question his peak. Basketball is a team sport. The roster sucked but MJ was HIM in 88.
There's no longevity award. I can make a case for Stockton with this criteria.
The dude that Michael Jordan never beat in the playoffs isn’t top 10 all time? Give me a break 🤡
tbf mike was like 2-3 yrs in the league on a lottery team so 🤷🏾♂️
Get off my Unc case man! maybe he do got a bias against Kobe just like everybody else that talk sports has a bias for or against someone
nah
@@MarzTalksSports ya be playing wit my OG man he couldnt even tell u was trolling putting KD over steph
Did Low say that kg is better than Kobe ? I’m not sure if I heard right
Maybe he said peak only. We know how he is about transcendent players and KG was way more of a transcendent defensive player in his peak than Kobe was on the other end.
@@sammysmartwizch3184you dudes be saying anything these days when it comes to kobe smh
He said his peak
@@lucianodadon7822Man, Kobe dickriders just lose any ability to comprehend basic sentences, huh? I don't agree with LOW, just explained what he meant. Someone else not meat munching a player like you do isn't hate either.
Also if you think, a non-passing, slight above average efficiency player can ever have an offensive ceiling as high as the defensive ceiling of the most ridiculously well rounded defensive player ever, then maybe reevaluate.
My GOAT List
1. Lebron
2. Jordan
3. Kareem
4. Duncan
5. Shaq
6. Hakeem
7. Kobe
8. Russell
9. Magic
10. Curry
11. Bird
12. Wilt
13. Garnett
Lebum over Jordan 😂
@@westside9032quit hatin it’s a quality list
@@welkometodaparty4821 no it ain’t good thing it’s his own opinion and not the rest of the world
West over garnett bro
#10 Hakeem
#9 Duncan
#8 Kobe
#7 Shaq
#6 Lebron
#5 Magic
#4 Bird
#3 Wilt
#2 Kareem
#1 MJ
kenn acting like a wannabe ticket is botched
Marz top 3 level there is a 1 a 2 and a 3
It means your play wasn't as valuable as someone that pushed their team to the top spot.
I'm more interested in what you prioritize when making your list, because in all honesty your list is garbage.
46:20
Does he know?
If your going by the case of Jokic still getting credit being an MVP caliber player this year, then Harden should get more credit as a player cause you can make the case Harden was an MVP in 2015, 2017 and 2019, so you talking about a 4 time MVP, how does Harden legacy change being a 4 time MVP
So Karl Malone is the goat or LeBron gets it by attrition? Your talking nonsense.
Low DON’T know ish 😂 smh
This is what happens when irrational people with no sense or lives just start talking for no reason.
Bird top ten easy
Have a nice day
low really does know
Saying KG>KD is an underrated wild take lol
i think the more u watch KG youd see how it should be a pretty standard take
@@MarzTalksSportsmeh. All-time defender with quality offensive ability but I don’t think that supersedes KD’s offensive elite level efficiency during his prime that resulted in quite a handful deep playoff runs
@@kambuibomani231 fair enough i guess
@@kambuibomani231It’s easy to have a deep playoff run while having immense talent on your team, especially compared to KG. Overall it’s a close call but it’s not wild imo. I’ll give Kd a lot of credit for 2012 his efficiency was absolutely stellar. 2021 was great as well. And obviously 2017 and 2018 but I tax that a lot when it comes to judging Kd as a player. The thing is about Durant is that he’s either extremely hot one night and very Luke warm on others. Obv he’s not completely cold like a James harden, but some nights he just forces shots up that he just shouldn’t shoot and relies on a few moves and shots too much. In important moments in games he tends to shoot bricks from three as well in the playoffs. But what’s also so impressive is that the nights he is extremely hot, he makes the craziest shots.
@@yofat696I think KD’s OKC tenure alone gives him the edge over KG especially during a time where Russ wasn’t the most reliable floor spacer and offensive decision maker. For Durant to still have those point outputs, the efficiency and playoff success despite the lack of spacing is a W in itself
😂😂😂😂😂😂Keem
“When bird wasnt scoring I still found Immense value in Larry birds off ball movement” immense value ??? y’all love overrating everything besides scoring. what is Larry bird doing off ball and how is that giving his team IMMENSE VALUE. Which mean HUGE VALUE?? What is he doing that no other forward doesn’t do off ball. Who directly did he help? Y’all do the same with Steph. How exactly does they off ball play lead to others scoring? And how are you watching a basketball game and watching off the ball. ?? I’m so confused
Well there's plenty videos that breakdown how Curry create for his team off ball. You have to watch what he does. He's mot just running around for nothing
you focus on the player not the ball...
“How are you watching a basketball game and watching off the ball”
Uhhh so you can see Plays developing, Defensive coverages, Etc. You see more when you aren’t only watching the guy with the ball.
@@MarzTalksSports so your not watching the game . Your scouting a player and lookin for critiques and criticism.. not the game. That’s why I call y’all coaches, not analysts. Not fans. Y’all are watching 1 player and missing everything else. That’s why I never hear about off ball movement or gravity for role players
@@othotheartist7688 so your not watching the game . Your scouting a player and lookin for critiques and criticism.. not the game.
Word is correct. There's probably nothing that pisses me off more than the love Giannis gets. he can just suck in the half-court in the playoffs. Best player over the past 2-3 years? 2nd to Jokic? 1st or second best player right now? He failed in the playoffs every year aside from 2021, resume speaks for itself. Playoff half court offense is.. pretty important. It's actually so important. He actually got gentleman swept by the heat, and he's not better than Steph Curry. I personally have him 4th behind Luka and Curry.
Word is HORRIBLE GET HIM OUTTA HERE
Low top 10 is jsut as credible as chi11s. LOW why isn’t Kobe top 3??? “Becuz he did so much to stop his team from winning “ the dumbest take ever. Like Tim Duncan purposely sitting out didn’t hurt his team or hurt the league. How many freethrows were missed at the end of games??? Didn’t Timmy miss a open lay up to win a championship??? Yeah but Kobe stopped his team from winning. Kobe the man wit the most championships this millennium?! Okay. No need to mention lebron and his many bad series before Miami. Hakeem over shaq makes no sense either. But that’s another comment. It’s low favorite TOP 10. Not a credible one
because LeBron Michael Jordan Tim Duncan and Kareem have better peaks than Kobe and their prime longevity is equal or as long as Kobe’s
@@MOCskoden they don’t have better peaks. They didn’t average 35 plus and make the all defensive team. LOW is not an accolade guy so he’s only talking about production and impact and nor of those guys outscored a championship team in 3 quarters. Try another reason
@@MOCskodenKobe played at his peak longer than kareem and Duncan , Duncan played at his peak for like 3 years , kobe played at the same level at least 5 years 06-10 I’d argue from 2000-2010.. and kareem missed the playoffs with a playoff caliber team in his peak 😂
Hakeem over Shaq makes perfect sense. Better rebounder, clearly better defense, not liability at FT line. Shaq scoring a few more points that’s not overcome everything thing else Hakeem provides.
@@BagChasinRB10 year peak???