I know people get upset at Ticket for the amount of mess he talks and him talking over everyone but people have to understand that people like him are common and theres a Ticket at almost every barbershop in America😂People like him always get the whole shop fired up with sports debates and its entertaining every time lol. This is why i love players choice so much because you basically have all the archetypes of sports debaters in one place.
⌚Timestamps⌚ 0:00 Allen Iverson vs James Harden 42:35 Superchats 52:45 Top Player vs Player rivalries 55:30 Talent vs Production (Harden vs AI) 1:01:40 Celtics and Bucks ahead of the rest 1:03:30 Problems in the Bulls locker room 1:04:40 John Stockton greatest PG all time? 1:12:50 Harden vs Iverson 1:26:10 Do Wins matter? 1:29:45 Short episode of Players Choice Footy 1:33:55 Giannis all time ranking 1:39:50 2011 Mavs vs 2016 Cavs 1:41:40 Stockton and Malone overrated 2:00:00 4 all time teams who wins? 2:04:20 Anthony Davis injured again 2:08:35 “Shaq carried Kobe” logic debunked 2:12:10 New media pushing bad narratives 2:16:55 Bird peak all time 2:20:50 NBA conspiracies 2:24:00 more player rankings 2:26:55 Prime Drose, Ja or Russ? 2:27:25 Pistol Pete Maravich was a show off 2:28:05 Kyrie “stepped up defensively” 2:30:10 Embiid possibly not being an allstar starter 2:33:35 Bron and MJs rival 2:36:40 Curry injury, AD injury 2:41:25 Magic or Bird? 2:43:45 Top 5 PGs 2:46:50 Misconception on Scottie guarding Magic in the finals 2:47:55 Top 5 SFs
Saying Pete didn’t care about winning is ridiculous. He never had a good team excluding his final year when he was traded to the C’s to be a bench warmer
I swear. I couldn't even watch that new podcast they started with Ticket vs the World or whatever. I come here to get more educated and hear their thoughts on the current nba season, not to hear Ticket yell and interrupt every 5 minutes.
Tickets offers entertainment, and the shit you say we got. You guys just ignore the fact that everybody has bad takes. Everybody on this show has said some dumb shit, and died on that sword.
@@frankyee-laa942 dude the thing is other people sometimes have bad takes, ticket rarely has GOOD takes and he consistently moves the goalpost and screams like an ape
I love how everyone hates ticket in the comments but let’s be honest he makes every show very entertaining. Every panelist is great but ticket brings a humor that no one else does
@@bboywolf Shaq has NO case to be the greatest center, Steph at the moment has NO case to be the greatest PG/SG ( however u want to classify), Bird has NO case to be the greatest SF . Whether u have them in your top 10 or not is a moot point, they are all ARGUABLY top 10, and yet has no case to be the greatest at their respective positions. That’s a dum ass argument
2:48:45 one of the most underrated playoff teams of all time. The 91 Bulls team won 61 games and then went 15-2 in the playoffs. Jordan, Pippen and Horace Grant were at their physical peak at that time. One of the great defensive teams of all time.
@@oh-turkeybird can’t remember the time stamp but it’s early on when they were debating abt whether the early 2000s eastern conference was trash or not
The other thing that people really forget about the 2001 76ers was their IQ and grit depth. They had the MVP in Iverson, the DPOY in Mutumbo, the 6th Man of the Year in Aaron McKie, and the COY in Larry Brown. That was the perfect defense first cast around an offensive no defense playing phenom in Allen Iverson. That team was built and tuned for Iverson's strengths and weaknesses to a T.
@@fxgaming2570 I never said AI brought those intangibles to the 2001 76ers lol. They just had gritty smart players, and yes, under coach Larry Brown's tutelage and system.
Beautiful moment in the show that most ain’t even notice Ron tries to act as if he has power over the pod “ pulling the strings “ And everyone in unison checks him and he goes mute.
ticket is so chaotic, he is driven based off pure emotion. He talks to others recklessly about the game of basketball that shouldn't be promoted. He is box office but if there is any way to channel his immaturity then he gotta go lmao. I miss shaq, del, & euro fs tho.
Those three are the biggest casuals on the show lol. These 4 guys here are the most knowledgeable and most calm debaters. Slicket has a really negative effect on PC, and you can tell that Marz becomes a lot more disinterested when Slicket is spouting absolute non-sense for 5 min straight.
I swear. I couldn't even watch that new podcast they started with Ticket vs the World or whatever. I come here to get more educated and hear their thoughts on the current nba season, not to hear Ticket yell and interrupt every 5 minutes.
LOW really sat there and acted like he calculated offensive and defensive ratings, all nba selections and what shoes were worn every season from 00-05' Lmao
AI would average 35 in todays NBA without even improving his 3. The court is so wide open. These kids don’t seem to translate that todays greats loved AI growing up as much as MJ. Even Ben Simmons wears a shooting sleeve.
Would his shot selection change, would his basketball IQ change, would his playmaking ability improve? He can average 40 for all I care if it’s inefficient his teams aren’t going to win. Also, the space thing while helping him offensively he would get cooked defensively.
@@TheKidwonda his basketball IQ was pretty high during his career and he averaged 7 assists. I don’t see why guarding guards more often outside would negatively impact his defence. The “efficiency” complaint is always out of context. When AI was on Denver he averaged like 27 on good efficiency and 6-7 dimes. Like any star, you could definitely question his shot selection at times but his efficiency was at the lowest when he literally WAS the offence on Philly. He might have the lowest fg% in history for an MVP.
@@liammaclean1773 exactly no point in having him he just messes up the show. The Panel is my favorite of the PC podcasts. Ticket hasn't been on there in awhile so the shows have been great actual conversations are being had in detailed content at that.
@@Thereaper5 lol hating I'm telling the truth. I don't wanna hear him yelling nonsense I wanna hear basketball talk. I listen to the Ringer more than this anyways actual basketball analysts and writers. This is for entertainment for me as well, but Ticket is just the opposite. I be trying to chill and listen to them talk basketball.
The fact A.I. literally had the least offensive help of any superstar in NBA history and shot almost 43% from the field for his career while Harden played with some of the most offensive skilled guys besides him and only shot 1% HIGHER THAN A.I. for their careers!!! 1Context is key. Marz is truly showing u can not fully grasp something unless u watched it while it happened. U can't look at numbers without knowing what the other players represented. I can't believe I'm saying Ticket is right.
@@dewaynededmon9008 All these advanced stats guys. Ts is adjusted for 3 pointers and free throws. This is the 3 point era with weak foul calls. You guys need to got into the real world
I don't give a crap about inflated TS%, both Harden and AI were inefficient high volume scorers and often flailed for calls. If you are comparing the two, their efficiency levels is not the debate settler, nor is it their defense.
@@QuestionEverything562 TS% is how you measure efficiency because efficiency is the greatest number of points in the least number of attempts. TS% takes that into account alongside free throws and the fact that 3 pointers are worth more than 2 pointers.
@@newdoo3936 Bruh stfù, idc. I have had this debate too many times, I just don't give a sh** about TS% because Kawhi's and Harden's TS% are the same, but nobody can ever tell me that Harden was more efficient than Kawhi. Harden is the poster boy for TS% casuals, and he ruins that stat for anybody that actually watches basketball and understands how great players take smart shots. By TS% alone, Harden is more efficient than MJ, and that's just idiocy to me when you watch how they actually scored from the field.
The one thing I was missing in this argument is that Harden had alot of help from the refs weather it be with his gather step that used to be a travel or jumping into defenders that put teams in foul trouble which forces them to play lighter defense which turns into better looks for harden where as AI had to deal with refs targeting him offensively and defensively
Yea but they're fouls were NOT the same. Iverson was not getting any favors from the defense because of his fouls. 2 different eras. @@jeremyfuller7730
I swear. I couldn't even watch that new podcast they started with Ticket vs the World or whatever. I come here to get more educated and hear their thoughts on the current nba season, not to hear Ticket yell and interrupt every 5 minutes.
@@jasondakidd882 Harden is better than Iverson is not a stupid opinion. The fact of that you hold Harden to a different standard than Iverson indirectly tells me that you subconsciously know Harden is better. A 5/27 game for Harden is a choke job but a 5/27 game for Iverson is normal and is not his fault because the team is trash?
@@yokun1885 time to cook🍳... i never said anything about his shooting percentage and him shooting horrible wasn't why he choked this is why mars is a casual that just reads off stats and percentages. Harden choked because if you was watching you seen him actually turn into a less aggressive not even trying player.. i have seen Harden getting smoked they bench him and the bench came back to win the game.if Harden shot horrible but still maintained his same play style i wouldn't say he choked..Iverson would never and how many mvp's has Harden played with and he got what out off it and it was a tougher league with Iverson most Hardens pts come from the free-throw line while he manipulates the refs to get calls..i will destroy u about this choking bum
@@jasondakidd882 The fact that you hold Harden and AI to a different standard so that in your eyes, AI good and Harden bad tells me that you're subconsciously think Harden is better. The reason why Harden loses when he has a bad game and AI wins when he has a bad game tells me that the separator for those teams were not the individual player but moreso their team. As LOW and Marz said, the separator was the Sixers defense. Y'all shit on Harden for underperforming for his standards but praise AI for shooting the same way WITHOUT THE PLAYMAKING ASPECT. Ur already telling me Harden is better because a Harden choke is an average AI game. Since the standards for the two of them are different, you're comparing a superior and inferior player.
Stockton, I think, deserves whatever praises he's gotten; not too high, not too low. He played 19 seasons, played all 82 games in 16 of those seasons, and NEVER missed the playoffs. Stats-wise, his production over 19 playoffs were also not far off from his regular seasons. Payton wasn't exaggerating when he said Stockton brought it every night.
Some argue the type of player Stockton ended up being is the result of a flawed scheme. But even those who would call Stockton overrated would agree that he had really good durability.
Allen would be even more lethal in this era for sure. Dantoni basically let Harden run everything he had the highest usage rate. AI surrounded by shooters would average 40.
Also have to consider that back then guys didn’t play the game based off analytics. Back then a mid range was a good shot and was encouraged. The mike dantoni years James was instructed to shoot 3s and layups so of course his numbers are gonna be more efficient. If AI played today with more space I guarantee his numbers would be more efficient
ticket is just loud and wrong, and og is salty because uncut hoops called him out. If your going to speak, make sure that your info is accurate. take accountability.
@@khalil8391 your right but og tried to act like uncut hoops was in the wrong or something lol. and thats og fault for naming a bunch of inaccurate stats instead of checking. I know he usually gets stuff right off the top of his head but he cant act like what uncut hoops did was wrong lol. they should be more like marz and low, check your stats before speaking
When did A.I. under perform in the playoffs? He never lost to a seed lower than him while he led his teams past higher seeds multiple times. These dudes gotta get off basketball reference.
In his 10 years with the 76ers, AI only got his 76ers to the playoffs 6/10x. AI only once got past the 2nd round, 2001. AI only once got his 76ers over 50 wins. AI was not an ideal winning main man, he was just a great scoring phenom like Ja Morant is now or how Dame was in the 2010s. These guys only play on one end and it's very difficult to build great teams around them with them being the center piece.
@Weber 562 Again, u and others keep bringing up all these stats WITHOUT CONTEXT. For one u don't get your team to a final if u ain't a #1 guy. Something people leave out about that finals run is during that finals the Sixers won game 1 yes, but al.ost won game 2 and should have won game 3. That was A.I.'s impact. Other teams couldn't get a game off LA but the sixers who weren't even at full strength damn near won the first 3 games. The fact u mentioned Ja, and Dame in the same breath is ultimate disrespect considering they haven't even got to a final nor had the career Iverson had. All the numbers u stated is simply showing once again the lack of help he had for his entire tenor in Philly. If u think LeBron didn't have help his first stint in Cleveland, times that by 100 and u have those Sixers teams. Nobody ever said A.I. and the Sixers didn't get as far as they should have, What they said is how is the 6 foot killer doing what he's doing while having team success. Ill say it again hes never loss a playoff series as the higher seed but on multiple occasions won series when his team was the lower seed. How the hell is that under achieving? 🤷♂️A.I. was his worst enemy because he never complained about the lack of help. He was built different. Whoever was on the squad he truly believed he could win with them. Harden mentally is weak and that truly separates the 2 by a mile. If A.I. had half the talent James was blessed to play with...omg, we're talking about a top 15-20 guy instead of a top 30 guy easily He was that feared during his prime along with Shaq. Not my words that's what coaches and players said. Idk how old u are but there's no way if u were of a decent age during A.I. tenure in Philly u would EVER compare Ja and Dame to this man. Again, the ultimate disrespect Bro.
@Weber 562 oh, I forgot ,this notion A.I. was a bad defender could be the most made up narrative ever. He was average defender for most of his career. He struggled when bigger guards would post him up but as a on ball guarding other PGs he was solid and especially in the passing lanes he was incredible. Name me the guy who lit him up during his career? I can only think of a handful of guys. U don't win back to back DPOY in the Big East in the 90s if u play one end of the ball. Before u say it was college, well name me the guy that was that dominant on defense in college that was trash on defense in the league? Lol
30:55 from the 1993/94 to the 2003/04 season, there was a decline in scoring culminating with the lowest PPG of around 93 PPG by teams on average in 2003/04, the lowest in the shot clock era.
Funny that Marz rates A.I. so low because of efficiency but has Trae Young over Ja even tho Trae is shooting similar to A.I. from the field and 3 in a offensive era and tons of offensive help around him. Smh I realize alot of these dudes just talk, no consistency whatsoever in their takes. It literally varies for each player.
“Even tho Trae is shooting similar to AI from the field…” In a bad year from Trea shooting he has a efg% of .461. That’s higher than AI career average and much better than every year from AI’s prime from 1998-2005 So as much as Trae is struggling this year, with him shooting his career worse from 3, that’s better than AI was most of his career.
@@oseiamoah22 As I said, in a bad year (so far) from Trae he shootings below average from the league, but above AI average. We have a large enough sample size of Young’s career to know that he will regress (or improve) to his mean. He is posting his worst shooting splits since his rookie year, unless you believe he got his skill removed by Monstars, he will get back to typical play. Iverson however, career is over with. We saw his career play out and see he shot way worse than league average EF% 15 years of his career.
@@PNL1992 You have to adjust Iverson and Youngs eFG% relative to the league average in with they played in because the game is so much different which is why I brought up league average in eFG% and that's on Trae Young on whether or not he improves on that
Great show. The ironic thing about using Gary Payton to make an argument about Stockton is that GP himself said Stockton was the hardest person he ever guarded. I think one of those Nash MVP years Kobe averaged 35 and basically quit against the Suns in the playoffs to prove a point.
Malone at 17 being too high is wild. Dude has a case for top 15, most of these guys got Bron as a GOAT candidate with longevity being his best argument.
Lebron has missed the same number of game the last 4 seasons (71) as he did the rest of his career...how is that longevity when you're missing almost a whole season off in 4 years
@@iamykdon I can tolerate him and find him funny most of the time but people come to Player's choice because they wanna watch actual basketball conversations. I can understand why people don't like Ticket. He really makes basketball discourse personal and creates a Them vs Us divide. He's more obsessed owning people he disagrees with than having an actual basketball conversation. I can see why people don't like him.
I notice that Marz gets real quiet when Slicket is on. Not out of fear, but just out of annoyance of having to deal with that loud mouthed moron. Marz on his footy podcast with his chums is much more lively and engaged, much more jovial. I think they should let Marz host instead of L Host Simp Ronny.
@@QuestionEverything562 exactly why I don't see why they even have Ticket on this podcast. They need to put him on something else or just not have him at all. The Panel is so much better without him and the conversations can actually be heard and they are actually detailed and interesting instead of hearing someone yelling and interrupting everyone.
52:07 it was nice of LOW to explain to OG Licket LV 😂 the guys have to bring him & Fluent up to date on some of the slang so they will know wassup in the chat.
But the frame of reference is missing in Marz arguments. They're all based on numbers which is a factor but isn't the end all be all of making an argument on anything.
While Ticket can be emotional, Marz shows complete ignorance to the players of the past generation. He's way too analytical and disregards context and the different dynamics of the game, then vs. today. It's funny how these young cats will swear the league today is so much more talented and skilled than it's ever been, but don't apply that same logic when it comes to evaluating the supporting cast of an Allen Iverson in comparison to a James Harden. Harden has consistently played with way more talent around him, whereas AI was surrounded by a bunch of defensive specialists in Philadelphia and had to literally carry the entire offense. Was not surrounded by shooters that can spread the floor and create open driving lanes. When he finally did beat 2-3 guys to get to the basket, he was met in the paint by REAL big men who showed him no mercy. Knocked him on his ass and they were allowed to also. Iverson was tough as nails and gave it his all on the court. I don't think anyone is questioning Harden's talent, but what is in question is his will to win and not just give up in the playoffs. If I had to trust either one to win me a playoffs series, it's Allen Iverson and it's not even close!
SUPERFACTS. Also Lo lied saying when A.I. went to Denver his efficiency didn't improve. IT ABSOLUTELY DID he shot highs from the field (46%) and True shooting percentage 57%. Lastly think about this. A.I. literally had the least offensive help of any superstar in nba history for his career how is it Harden only shoots 2% higher from the field than A.I. case closed.
@J Mar Not only that, him and Carmelo on the same team was not a good fit, considering they mirrored each other as volume shooters. Having to face the teams that went to NBA Finals two consecutive years in the first round didn't help either
I think of Westbrook and AI MVP seasons as similar. Both had high end defenses and had to bulk produce on offense. Their bad shooting splits matter but still helped their team because their team needed offense BAD.
Their efficiency doesn’t matter… if you have no shooting around you and you have to shoulder the offense with zone defenses etc, you’re efficiency is always going to be shit.
@@hueyfreeman7184 Kobe on the lakers after shaq and Lebron on the lakers without AD due to injury are 2 examples of players being efficient without good offensive players around them. Trae young was efficient his sophomore season despite his team shooting the 2nd worst from 3 in the league. Karl Anthony towns has been efficient more or less hos entire career despite being on multiple teams ranking bottom 10 in 3P%. Pascal siakam was moderately efficient with putting up 26PPG last year and the raptors were one of the poorer shooting teams. So you can’t really use that as a full excuse. We’ve seen multiple guys be efficient on teams with bad spacing while being the focal point of an offense.
@@Scorpion62121 1) by that logic Russ was efficient. 2) you just named wing players… your argument is ass. Trae young always had shooting around him, and was the shooter to… A.I and Russ are guards who live at the rim. Thus if they don’t have shooting around them they will be inefficient. Especially if they are their only offense.
I feel like this is a weird time where newer basketball fans and analysts argue more-so off of stats and efficiency, while older ones don’t care about the box-score AT ALL. The answer is in the middle of Ticket and Marz imo… AI had too much heart to not be ranked over Harden imo.
I fully agree with this because there is a middle ground but the newer gen has no real frame of reference aside from numbers and the context is missing entirely and they think they can't be talked to. They refuse to entertain the fact they might not know everything because Google is effectively their entire brain. It's ignorance but it's because of a lack of experience and knowledge.
They didn’t kick him out, Ron put him in the waiting room because everyone was ready to move the conversation along and he chose to keep going. He gets mad when he gets muted because he just keeps going far after the conversation is done. That’s on him not on Ron. He got muted, un muted himself, continued going, got muted again, unmuted himself, kept going, and then go out in the waiting room. If you’re having a meeting and someone continues on the prior subject when the meeting is moving on you aren’t going to have them removed from the meeting?
He need to learn to respect the host. This ain’t his platform or show. If they gotta move on to discuss other topics, he needs to respect that. Over talks everyone to begin with.
None of what Low said about the conferences matter. It’s all relative. Philly was on par with the rest of the East playoff teams, which means It was competitive and there was no guarantee Philly makes the Finals. That makes leading that team to the Finals more Impressive.
Nah, the east was crazy weak compared to modern. Most of those teams wouldn’t even be 6th seeds in todays league. Iverson beating those teams to Go to the finals is less impressive.
@@tommartyn524 I see you’re missing the point. Do you believe Iverson and the 76ers were head and shoulders above the rest of the East stars and their teams? Would you say Philly was a modern level team feasting on a weak conference In that era? Or would you say Philly and Iverson was on par with Vince and Toronto, Pierce and Boston, Ray and Milwaukee, Reggie and Indy, Kidd and Jersey, etc…and the other teams of that era?? If they were a weak conference compared to other eras, but Philly was on par with those teams, then they were all competitive with one another. Not to mention when they got to the Finals they got a win against the team that nobody from the stronger conference got a win on, because of Iverson.
@@Dologaming24 harden was one game Away from the finals after taking the BEST team ever assembled to 7 games. That in my opinion is more impressive than anything iverson did. I guess it’s all subjective. I don’t think beating weak eastern conference teams just to get smoked in the finals is impressive. The debate is between harden and iverson. I think harden taking the warriors to 7 games is more impressive than what iverson did, also harden has better stats and was the overall better player. Those two things is why I think Haden was better
@@tommartyn524 that wasn’t the best team ever. Those Lakers would’ve washed the Warriors. Nobody got a game of the Lakers except Philly. All Harden needed was one win out of two games. They had one of the worst team performances ever., led by him. CP was the reason they had a chance to win that series, not Harden. His play style wasn’t conducive to winning. Having better numbers In a easier league ain’t gonna cut It.
My question to anyone is how do we recognize the difference between a great “defensive” era and an era that was filled with “low skill”’ “terrible offensive schemes” and was “iso heavy “
Ticket Mars has repeatedly told you he's watched the past games over and over and over. I would bet anything he's watched more of the historic games from the early 60-80s then anyone on the show almost.
I’ve went back and watched games from eras too but u still can’t grasp the ups and downs of the full season and the story lines without living through it that does hold value
@@Thereaper5it certainly does ive always said storylines and narratives are stuff i cant grasp unless the commentators talk about it,but also when im judging a player its just what u do on the court those storylines dont hold extra weight to me
@@JG4TheGOAT I feel u Marz that’s your opinion but let’s be real those storylines do help define players careers which is why most people may overrate or underrate certain players not saying I agree but to some people all that holds weight
you cannot boil a players career down to moments and series , but when it comes to Harden , its different , because it’s a pattern and can’t be dismissed 1) as a 6 man in OKC mans played terrible in the finals relative 2) 2014 was the 4th best player in the series behind dame, Aldridge and Dwight 3)2015 vs warriors ; games 3 and 5 , 17 points and 14 points respectively in key games 4) 2017 disgraceful, game 6 NO KAWHI & TONY PARKER and 5)2018 vs warriors , game 6 up 17 6) 2018 vs warriors game 7 , up 16 , shot 1-10 in the 2nd half 7)2019 , NO DURANT , steph had 0 at the half . 8)2020 - 2-11 fg% vs the lakers in the bubble in game 4, a pivotal game 9)2021 - harden on the nets mans ain’t even try to help Durant 10)2022 , scored 20+ in 2 out of the 6 games vs Miami These are not only pivotal games, moments and series, but they were very win-able situations for Harden to lead his teams through and he was the one who didn’t show during these times. Harden’s efficiency stats don’t contextualize these choke jobs.
@@DontAdoreYou yeah , typically I agree that we can’t pick and choose but this shit is routine with Harden. I can’t think of any big playoff game that he actually came through and prevailed … maybe game 7 in the bubble , but he played TRASH in that game , just came up with the stop at the end
First off Harden is a quitter… when the going gets tough that dude starts complaining, lacks on defense, pointing fingers, whining and crying calls… Harden has always had 2 to 3 other offensive players to bail him out from the start of his career… we all know James Harden is scatter brained and lazy asf on Defense… there’s many clips of him just giving up and allowing players to jus score… thas jus defense… Allen was a play maker on defense AND offense consistently every night… on offense James Harden has NEVER had to carry the load all by himself… he doesn’t get double teamed l, he dribble dribble dribble dribble between the legs, triple travel step back 3(in which now refs been calling that Easter bunny travel hop and the ripping his arms through the defenders to get goof ball calls to go to the line…) and he hasn’t been hitting those for the past 5 years… All in all plz stop saying Harden was more efficient when he’s had the luxury of playing in a era designed and mapped for more offensive scoring and opportunities😐 brah he’s efficient on offense because the game now has been molded for Offensive supremacy! You young dudes that have never played basketball at a level higher than 2k in middle school really needs to water down
How marz messed up is when he said, "when you stop minimize players careers by moments." Moments is a major part in legacy, moments show grit and heart.
Exactly which is why I love Kobe God rest his soul but the 2004 finals and that series the close out game against the sun he just refused to shoot always rubbed me the wrong way
@@mmvb4 it’s because geppetto is what people say to refer to pedophiles when on RUclips to not be demonitized and still make money on their vids. Ron was talking about being the guy from Pinocchio, who was a puppeteer so he was pulling the strings
Giannis did more then kahwi he has more mvps everyone already says that finals mvp for the spurs he just got that for guarding bron💯,so both of them in my eyes got 1 chip as the man they both got dpoys and giannis is way more dominant so if I got kahwi in the top 20 u gotta have Giannis there.
Facts, I personally have kawhi top 30 myself (he has the talent of a top 15 player) and giannis is top 25 for me (potential to be a top 10 guy alltime)
Lmaooo ur a casual then , kawhi was the best player on that spurs team they dont win nothing at all without him , giannis choked 2-0 lead against kawhi as well, kawhi 2 finals mvp to giannis one and that one chip giannis won is a hospital ass ring to😂
C'mon bro, Yes Kawhi doesn't have the longevity but he is a top 10 sf of all time. You can't tell me that he isn't greater than at least Dominique, Worthy, Pierce or Carmelo.
The older guys talk about what they saw and some of that the stat can not show. The young guys are going by computer stats and modern players play just for individual statistics so that can get bigger contracts
Kobe was a better defender, a better shooter, free throw shooter, a better offensive rebounder, and the fact that it took Lebron playing alongside Kobe in the Olympics to understand the immense level of dedication and work ethic it actually took to be great in the NBA matters. Lebron was a better playmaker, cool. Outside of that Lebron does nothing better then Kobe at all. Kobe worked with Hakeem to improve his post game, Lebron was the first to copy that. Kobe literally set the tone for the league from 2007-2013 which is insane because that’s after having some of the craziest performances from 2000-2006 which includes his bad years where he still put up monster performances. Kobe is better then Lebron.
This is truly one time Lo and Marz show when u didn't watch your entire view is completely Shot, borderline ignorant, and I usually agree with alot of their points
Regardless of what anyone says of magic with Kareem and John with Karl. Kobe played with Shaq and he isnt top 20 assist leaders. He also played with pau and Lamar and Andrew, and Shannon. And he’s not even top 30 assist leaders
Kobe wasn’t even playing point guard (granted Fischer wasn’t putting up high assist totals either), and apart from Stockton’s abilities, the Jazz arguably had less playmaking outside of their top passer than Los Angeles in the early 2000’s did. Kobe also wasn’t quite as durable as Stockton arguably.
@@fortynights1513 it doesn’t matter if he wasn’t playing point guard. Lebron has more assist than Kobe if u at 15 years for Lebron and Kobe. That’s why Lebron is going to finally beat Kobe at most missed shots in league history. It took Lebron 6 extra years to beat that. But no time to beat him in assists.
Hey guys I don’t know if y’all know but In that infamous finals game everyone always use for iverson….he went on a 22 minute scoring drought in the 4th until the last couple mins and overtime.
I don't think the older panelist understand that you can check stats compared to the rest of the league that season. For example, the 2001 Raptors were 8th in Off rating, 13th defensive rating. That means they were an above average team. This isn't inpressive because 16/29 teams made the playoffs, meaning the average is a 7th seed team.
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I know people get upset at Ticket for the amount of mess he talks and him talking over everyone but people have to understand that people like him are common and theres a Ticket at almost every barbershop in America😂People like him always get the whole shop fired up with sports debates and its entertaining every time lol. This is why i love players choice so much because you basically have all the archetypes of sports debaters in one place.
I’m pretty sure they lose their license as a business if they don’t have at least one 😂
Alwyas that one dude that gets the whole barber shopped fired up 🤣🤣🤣shit is comedy
just cause there are alot of people like this that doesnt make it any less annoying
@@aarongray7230 u got no likes for a reason shut up softie nd enjoy the content 😂
Nailed it, immediately thought of talking sports with the guys and talking sh/t when I found this channel yesterday, love it!
its always "hold on let me finish" when ticket says a lie and someone tries to call him out on it. Its like clockwork with him
So Ticket big ups Iverson for losing to a San Antonio Spurs team, but degrades LeBron for losing to that team in Cleveland?
That's why this is called Player's Choice, pretty bias lol. But to be fair, even AI got a game on those 2007 Spurs lol.
They are literally doing the same shit to AI so what
Exactly
Makes sense seeing how Iverson's team didn't win 60 games.
@@MZ-gh4in fair point but it’s the regular season, you always go 100% in the playoffs so idk
This is a certified Legend of Kroger classic
Timestamp plz 💀
2:04:35
⌚Timestamps⌚
0:00 Allen Iverson vs James Harden
42:35 Superchats
52:45 Top Player vs Player rivalries
55:30 Talent vs Production (Harden vs AI)
1:01:40 Celtics and Bucks ahead of the rest
1:03:30 Problems in the Bulls locker room
1:04:40 John Stockton greatest PG all time?
1:12:50 Harden vs Iverson
1:26:10 Do Wins matter?
1:29:45 Short episode of Players Choice Footy
1:33:55 Giannis all time ranking
1:39:50 2011 Mavs vs 2016 Cavs
1:41:40 Stockton and Malone overrated
2:00:00 4 all time teams who wins?
2:04:20 Anthony Davis injured again
2:08:35 “Shaq carried Kobe” logic debunked
2:12:10 New media pushing bad narratives
2:16:55 Bird peak all time
2:20:50 NBA conspiracies
2:24:00 more player rankings
2:26:55 Prime Drose, Ja or Russ?
2:27:25 Pistol Pete Maravich was a show off
2:28:05 Kyrie “stepped up defensively”
2:30:10 Embiid possibly not being an allstar starter
2:33:35 Bron and MJs rival
2:36:40 Curry injury, AD injury
2:41:25 Magic or Bird?
2:43:45 Top 5 PGs
2:46:50 Misconception on Scottie guarding Magic in the finals
2:47:55 Top 5 SFs
Real 1
🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐
W
You need a new timestamp when Ticket stops screaming.
Saying Pete didn’t care about winning is ridiculous. He never had a good team excluding his final year when he was traded to the C’s to be a bench warmer
Ticket is absent for the majority of the episode and we get some complex, detailed, sensical debates. This isn’t a coincidence…
I swear. I couldn't even watch that new podcast they started with Ticket vs the World or whatever. I come here to get more educated and hear their thoughts on the current nba season, not to hear Ticket yell and interrupt every 5 minutes.
Ticket is too focused on talking shit and being emotional.
Tickets offers entertainment, and the shit you say we got.
You guys just ignore the fact that everybody has bad takes.
Everybody on this show has said some dumb shit, and died on that sword.
@@frankyee-laa942 dude the thing is other people sometimes have bad takes, ticket rarely has GOOD takes and he consistently moves the goalpost and screams like an ape
@@frankyee-laa942 bro u spoke the most sense on this thread
Just because you have a nostalgic feeling about someone doesn't mean their better.
Just because you saw a guy break records doesn’t mean he’s better either
Preach
I love how everyone hates ticket in the comments but let’s be honest he makes every show very entertaining. Every panelist is great but ticket brings a humor that no one else does
💯
True but only in moderation
Trolls tend to do that
If you were in the Barbershop talking about sports you would hate Ticket too lol
It's too many times where he moved the goalpost. He just wants to be heard.
Dr J is criminally underrated. If you weight ABA accomplishments as much as NBA, he has a top 10 resume easily . Not to mention impact was crazy
Wrong, no one has dr. J as the greatest small forward. How can you be top 10. You need a case for greatest at your position
@@bboywolf that’s a lie. Kobe has NO case to be the greatest SG and he is within the top 10 .
@@Brooklyn94269 no he's not. Kobe 11th all time lmao dude has 2 rings as the main guy and 1 mvp... he's 11th all time.
@@bboywolf he’s in most people’s top 10
@@bboywolf Shaq has NO case to be the greatest center, Steph at the moment has NO case to be the greatest PG/SG ( however u want to classify), Bird has NO case to be the greatest SF . Whether u have them in your top 10 or not is a moot point, they are all ARGUABLY top 10, and yet has no case to be the greatest at their respective positions.
That’s a dum ass argument
Ticket vs Marz and Bubble Bass is a top 5 rivalry 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Bubble Bass 😭😭😭😭😭
Do you know what's better? Ticket vs everyone in the Panel. His 1 v 5 fights are hilarious.
Bubble bass 😂😂😂😂😂
2:48:45 one of the most underrated playoff teams of all time. The 91 Bulls team won 61 games and then went 15-2 in the playoffs. Jordan, Pippen and Horace Grant were at their physical peak at that time. One of the great defensive teams of all time.
They finally got Marz to yell😂🤣 I wanna see that more
Time stamp?
@@oh-turkeybird can’t remember the time stamp but it’s early on when they were debating abt whether the early 2000s eastern conference was trash or not
Lmao 21:10 😂😂
Ticket brings that dawg outta Marz
Marz has gotten louder then he did this episode 😭
The other thing that people really forget about the 2001 76ers was their IQ and grit depth. They had the MVP in Iverson, the DPOY in Mutumbo, the 6th Man of the Year in Aaron McKie, and the COY in Larry Brown. That was the perfect defense first cast around an offensive no defense playing phenom in Allen Iverson. That team was built and tuned for Iverson's strengths and weaknesses to a T.
Wrong, Larry Brown was those things. That's why when he left that sinking ship for Detroit he won a championship and was more successful.
@@fxgaming2570 Wtf are you even trying to say?
@@QuestionEverything562 The coach Larry Brown brought IQ and grit to the team not AI.
@@fxgaming2570 I never said AI brought those intangibles to the 2001 76ers lol. They just had gritty smart players, and yes, under coach Larry Brown's tutelage and system.
How do you play no defense, and lead the league in steals 3 times??
Beautiful moment in the show that most ain’t even notice
Ron tries to act as if he has power over the pod “ pulling the strings “ And everyone in unison checks him and he goes mute.
gotta love the cast they have. Everyone brings their own flavour. Keep it up gentlemen.
LOW calls Carter a quitter but defends Harden?????? Dude .. wasnt it harden who purposley gained weight and played terribly to get off of 2 teams ?
In the meantime,
Mars is still undefeated against Ticket tv
Man I love these debates
Y’all took Ticket out of the stream but y’all still talked about Harden vs Iverson right after 😂
Yea it was a better in depth discussion because he wasn't there anymore to interrupt and yell.
@@dmpdagamer facts
ticket is so chaotic, he is driven based off pure emotion. He talks to others recklessly about the game of basketball that shouldn't be promoted. He is box office but if there is any way to channel his immaturity then he gotta go lmao. I miss shaq, del, & euro fs tho.
Those three are the biggest casuals on the show lol. These 4 guys here are the most knowledgeable and most calm debaters. Slicket has a really negative effect on PC, and you can tell that Marz becomes a lot more disinterested when Slicket is spouting absolute non-sense for 5 min straight.
@@QuestionEverything562 lol I don’t think marz is a big fan of ticket bro
@@showtimej2582 why?
@@basketballexpert4584 you can see his energy when he comes to the panel
I swear. I couldn't even watch that new podcast they started with Ticket vs the World or whatever. I come here to get more educated and hear their thoughts on the current nba season, not to hear Ticket yell and interrupt every 5 minutes.
LOW really sat there and acted like he calculated offensive and defensive ratings, all nba selections and what shoes were worn every season from 00-05' Lmao
AI would average 35 in todays NBA without even improving his 3. The court is so wide open. These kids don’t seem to translate that todays greats loved AI growing up as much as MJ. Even Ben Simmons wears a shooting sleeve.
Would his shot selection change, would his basketball IQ change, would his playmaking ability improve? He can average 40 for all I care if it’s inefficient his teams aren’t going to win. Also, the space thing while helping him offensively he would get cooked defensively.
@@TheKidwonda his basketball IQ was pretty high during his career and he averaged 7 assists. I don’t see why guarding guards more often outside would negatively impact his defence. The “efficiency” complaint is always out of context. When AI was on Denver he averaged like 27 on good efficiency and 6-7 dimes.
Like any star, you could definitely question his shot selection at times but his efficiency was at the lowest when he literally WAS the offence on Philly. He might have the lowest fg% in history for an MVP.
You have to mute Ticket at least once every show! It’s tradition at this point 😂
Once? More like 3-4
Mute him from start to finish
@@liammaclean1773 exactly no point in having him he just messes up the show. The Panel is my favorite of the PC podcasts. Ticket hasn't been on there in awhile so the shows have been great actual conversations are being had in detailed content at that.
@@dmpdagamer the panel was created because of ticket lol stop hating under every comment
@@Thereaper5 lol hating I'm telling the truth. I don't wanna hear him yelling nonsense I wanna hear basketball talk. I listen to the Ringer more than this anyways actual basketball analysts and writers. This is for entertainment for me as well, but Ticket is just the opposite. I be trying to chill and listen to them talk basketball.
Stockton got MVP votes multiple times, getting as high as 7th in MVP voting.
The fact A.I. literally had the least offensive help of any superstar in NBA history and shot almost 43% from the field for his career while Harden played with some of the most offensive skilled guys besides him and only shot 1% HIGHER THAN A.I. for their careers!!! 1Context is key. Marz is truly showing u can not fully grasp something unless u watched it while it happened. U can't look at numbers without knowing what the other players represented. I can't believe I'm saying Ticket is right.
Using fg% in a debate of efficiency in 2022 is outdated. I’m not even a Harden fan but he has a career ts% of 60 vs AI’s 51.8%
@@dewaynededmon9008 All these advanced stats guys. Ts is adjusted for 3 pointers and free throws. This is the 3 point era with weak foul calls. You guys need to got into the real world
I don't give a crap about inflated TS%, both Harden and AI were inefficient high volume scorers and often flailed for calls. If you are comparing the two, their efficiency levels is not the debate settler, nor is it their defense.
@@QuestionEverything562 TS% is how you measure efficiency because efficiency is the greatest number of points in the least number of attempts. TS% takes that into account alongside free throws and the fact that 3 pointers are worth more than 2 pointers.
@@newdoo3936 Bruh stfù, idc. I have had this debate too many times, I just don't give a sh** about TS% because Kawhi's and Harden's TS% are the same, but nobody can ever tell me that Harden was more efficient than Kawhi. Harden is the poster boy for TS% casuals, and he ruins that stat for anybody that actually watches basketball and understands how great players take smart shots. By TS% alone, Harden is more efficient than MJ, and that's just idiocy to me when you watch how they actually scored from the field.
The one thing I was missing in this argument is that Harden had alot of help from the refs weather it be with his gather step that used to be a travel or jumping into defenders that put teams in foul trouble which forces them to play lighter defense which turns into better looks for harden where as AI had to deal with refs targeting him offensively and defensively
Iverson and Harden shot the same amount of free throws in their primes
Yea but they're fouls were NOT the same. Iverson was not getting any favors from the defense because of his fouls. 2 different eras. @@jeremyfuller7730
Nobody:
Ticket every 5 seconds: "Hol on Hol on Hol on Hol on Hol on "🤣
I swear. I couldn't even watch that new podcast they started with Ticket vs the World or whatever. I come here to get more educated and hear their thoughts on the current nba season, not to hear Ticket yell and interrupt every 5 minutes.
Ticket every minute: "Now watch this."
*says something incredibly stupid or blatantly lies*
So, Yall think James Harden is better team A.I. ?
@@darkelzsmith3564 James was a Choke artist
Marz is now the official father of Ticket. This is getting sad now
How all he does is read stats he sounds stupid saying harden was better than Iverson..all harden does is choke its not even close
@@jasondakidd882 Harden is better than Iverson is not a stupid opinion. The fact of that you hold Harden to a different standard than Iverson indirectly tells me that you subconsciously know Harden is better. A 5/27 game for Harden is a choke job but a 5/27 game for Iverson is normal and is not his fault because the team is trash?
@@yokun1885 time to cook🍳... i never said anything about his shooting percentage and him shooting horrible wasn't why he choked this is why mars is a casual that just reads off stats and percentages. Harden choked because if you was watching you seen him actually turn into a less aggressive not even trying player.. i have seen Harden getting smoked they bench him and the bench came back to win the game.if Harden shot horrible but still maintained his same play style i wouldn't say he choked..Iverson would never and how many mvp's has Harden played with and he got what out off it and it was a tougher league with Iverson most Hardens pts come from the free-throw line while he manipulates the refs to get calls..i will destroy u about this choking bum
@@jasondakidd882 The fact that you hold Harden and AI to a different standard so that in your eyes, AI good and Harden bad tells me that you're subconsciously think Harden is better.
The reason why Harden loses when he has a bad game and AI wins when he has a bad game tells me that the separator for those teams were not the individual player but moreso their team. As LOW and Marz said, the separator was the Sixers defense.
Y'all shit on Harden for underperforming for his standards but praise AI for shooting the same way WITHOUT THE PLAYMAKING ASPECT.
Ur already telling me Harden is better because a Harden choke is an average AI game. Since the standards for the two of them are different, you're comparing a superior and inferior player.
@@yokun1885 you make no sense.. Iverson is better harden is a choker simple Iverson would never..
A.I. never said he didn't practice, he said he missed practices. Smh this has to be Lo' s worst take stream.
AI did say he didn’t show up to practice. Larry Brown also said he would show up to practice and do nothing but f*** around.
So he didn't practice. Missing practice is almost equivalent to not practicing. What are we doing?
He said he never worked out. Harden doesn’t either he parties with rappers.
Stockton, I think, deserves whatever praises he's gotten; not too high, not too low. He played 19 seasons, played all 82 games in 16 of those seasons, and NEVER missed the playoffs. Stats-wise, his production over 19 playoffs were also not far off from his regular seasons. Payton wasn't exaggerating when he said Stockton brought it every night.
Some argue the type of player Stockton ended up being is the result of a flawed scheme.
But even those who would call Stockton overrated would agree that he had really good durability.
Not sure why they were so afraid to admit that the early 2000s Eastern Conference was trash. Call it for what it is.
If there’s teams around the same level that makes it competitive. That’s what matters
@@mitchsn7706
You know what also is extremely competitive? The pickup basketball games in my neighborhood.
Worthless argument.
@@HopefulNihilistcompletely different level.. And the argument is relative to teams from their own eras.
Allen would be even more lethal in this era for sure. Dantoni basically let Harden run everything he had the highest usage rate. AI surrounded by shooters would average 40.
THANK YOUUU TICKET! James Harden Better than AI is wild
Its not, James harden used to do what Luka is doin rn. Dude averaged 36/10/9 at one point 😭 ai struggled wit the bucks bro Ray Allen was cooking him
STILL AN ALL TIME EPISODE
Also have to consider that back then guys didn’t play the game based off analytics. Back then a mid range was a good shot and was encouraged. The mike dantoni years James was instructed to shoot 3s and layups so of course his numbers are gonna be more efficient. If AI played today with more space I guarantee his numbers would be more efficient
Indiana and spurs was one of the few teams in the mid 90s to 2010 to have at least 13 playoff seasons consecutive
ticket is just loud and wrong, and og is salty because uncut hoops called him out. If your going to speak, make sure that your info is accurate. take accountability.
@@khalil8391 your right but og tried to act like uncut hoops was in the wrong or something lol. and thats og fault for naming a bunch of inaccurate stats instead of checking. I know he usually gets stuff right off the top of his head but he cant act like what uncut hoops did was wrong lol. they should be more like marz and low, check your stats before speaking
@user-zc8mx2iv7l exactly lol, og needs to stop capping. thats one thing ticket is right about lol
Ayy I’m just watching this video but 2:42:10 is da funniest shit ever 😂😂😂😂“Damn you always in the building”
When did A.I. under perform in the playoffs? He never lost to a seed lower than him while he led his teams past higher seeds multiple times. These dudes gotta get off basketball reference.
In his 10 years with the 76ers, AI only got his 76ers to the playoffs 6/10x. AI only once got past the 2nd round, 2001. AI only once got his 76ers over 50 wins. AI was not an ideal winning main man, he was just a great scoring phenom like Ja Morant is now or how Dame was in the 2010s. These guys only play on one end and it's very difficult to build great teams around them with them being the center piece.
@Weber 562 Again, u and others keep bringing up all these stats WITHOUT CONTEXT. For one u don't get your team to a final if u ain't a #1 guy. Something people leave out about that finals run is during that finals the Sixers won game 1 yes, but al.ost won game 2 and should have won game 3. That was A.I.'s impact. Other teams couldn't get a game off LA but the sixers who weren't even at full strength damn near won the first 3 games. The fact u mentioned Ja, and Dame in the same breath is ultimate disrespect considering they haven't even got to a final nor had the career Iverson had. All the numbers u stated is simply showing once again the lack of help he had for his entire tenor in Philly. If u think LeBron didn't have help his first stint in Cleveland, times that by 100 and u have those Sixers teams. Nobody ever said A.I. and the Sixers didn't get as far as they should have, What they said is how is the 6 foot killer doing what he's doing while having team success. Ill say it again hes never loss a playoff series as the higher seed but on multiple occasions won series when his team was the lower seed. How the hell is that under achieving? 🤷♂️A.I. was his worst enemy because he never complained about the lack of help. He was built different. Whoever was on the squad he truly believed he could win with them. Harden mentally is weak and that truly separates the 2 by a mile. If A.I. had half the talent James was blessed to play with...omg, we're talking about a top 15-20 guy instead of a top 30 guy easily He was that feared during his prime along with Shaq. Not my words that's what coaches and players said. Idk how old u are but there's no way if u were of a decent age during A.I. tenure in Philly u would EVER compare Ja and Dame to this man. Again, the ultimate disrespect Bro.
@Weber 562 oh, I forgot ,this notion A.I. was a bad defender could be the most made up narrative ever. He was average defender for most of his career. He struggled when bigger guards would post him up but as a on ball guarding other PGs he was solid and especially in the passing lanes he was incredible. Name me the guy who lit him up during his career? I can only think of a handful of guys. U don't win back to back DPOY in the Big East in the 90s if u play one end of the ball. Before u say it was college, well name me the guy that was that dominant on defense in college that was trash on defense in the league? Lol
30:55 from the 1993/94 to the 2003/04 season, there was a decline in scoring culminating with the lowest PPG of around 93 PPG by teams on average in 2003/04, the lowest in the shot clock era.
Ticket emotional af 😂
Only 4 teams ever have faced 4 50 win teams in 1 playoff run. The 94 Rockets, 01 Lakers, 08 Lakers and 2010 Lakers. Kobe was on 3 of these teams.
Funny that Marz rates A.I. so low because of efficiency but has Trae Young over Ja even tho Trae is shooting similar to A.I. from the field and 3 in a offensive era and tons of offensive help around him. Smh I realize alot of these dudes just talk, no consistency whatsoever in their takes. It literally varies for each player.
He also said he clears him as a defender and playmaker. Trae's a better playmaker than Ja.
“Even tho Trae is shooting similar to AI from the field…”
In a bad year from Trea shooting he has a efg% of .461.
That’s higher than AI career average and much better than every year from AI’s prime from 1998-2005
So as much as Trae is struggling this year, with him shooting his career worse from 3, that’s better than AI was most of his career.
@@PNL1992 league average in eFG% from 1998 to 2005 is 0.475% as oppose to today being 0.540%
@@oseiamoah22 As I said, in a bad year (so far) from Trae he shootings below average from the league, but above AI average.
We have a large enough sample size of Young’s career to know that he will regress (or improve) to his mean. He is posting his worst shooting splits since his rookie year, unless you believe he got his skill removed by Monstars, he will get back to typical play.
Iverson however, career is over with. We saw his career play out and see he shot way worse than league average EF% 15 years of his career.
@@PNL1992 You have to adjust Iverson and Youngs eFG% relative to the league average in with they played in because the game is so much different which is why I brought up league average in eFG% and that's on Trae Young on whether or not he improves on that
Great show. The ironic thing about using Gary Payton to make an argument about Stockton is that GP himself said Stockton was the hardest person he ever guarded. I think one of those Nash MVP years Kobe averaged 35 and basically quit against the Suns in the playoffs to prove a point.
Iverson has 9 steals ina playoff game wtf are we talking about
@42:21 “Truth Bomb and he tried to skate past them saying that 😂😂😂😂”
Malone at 17 being too high is wild. Dude has a case for top 15, most of these guys got Bron as a GOAT candidate with longevity being his best argument.
Lebron has missed the same number of game the last 4 seasons (71) as he did the rest of his career...how is that longevity when you're missing almost a whole season off in 4 years
@@kris9145because he got absolutely destroyed by teams in his last season with the cavs and the first part of LA as the only option
Agreed
The first 45 minutes of the show was 🔥🔥🔥🔥 the rest was great as well
NGL, the Ticket portions were painful to watch.
@@yokun1885 nah Ticket is a great part of the show I don’t see why people don’t like him
@@iamykdon I can tolerate him and find him funny most of the time but people come to Player's choice because they wanna watch actual basketball conversations. I can understand why people don't like Ticket. He really makes basketball discourse personal and creates a Them vs Us divide. He's more obsessed owning people he disagrees with than having an actual basketball conversation. I can see why people don't like him.
@@iamykdon fact true passion and OG knowledge.
Does anyone else notice how Marz & Low often agree ? Do yah notice how their arguments always makes the most sense ?
Efficiency stats nerds that you can tell never played sports or been around real sport understand what it’s actually like to play
I notice that Marz gets real quiet when Slicket is on. Not out of fear, but just out of annoyance of having to deal with that loud mouthed moron. Marz on his footy podcast with his chums is much more lively and engaged, much more jovial. I think they should let Marz host instead of L Host Simp Ronny.
@@QuestionEverything562 sheesh the hate is real with this one
@@mitchsn7706 facts when all else fails bring up blind numbers with no context
@@QuestionEverything562 exactly why I don't see why they even have Ticket on this podcast. They need to put him on something else or just not have him at all. The Panel is so much better without him and the conversations can actually be heard and they are actually detailed and interesting instead of hearing someone yelling and interrupting everyone.
51:34 Yo Licket LV is a crazy dono.
52:07 it was nice of LOW to explain to OG Licket LV 😂 the guys have to bring him & Fluent up to date on some of the slang so they will know wassup in the chat.
Love this channel.
I could watch it everyday
Idk how you can argue w logic and marz speaks w logic and reality. Ticket speaks through emotions 😂
But the frame of reference is missing in Marz arguments. They're all based on numbers which is a factor but isn't the end all be all of making an argument on anything.
Ron kicked Ticket then said it’s not his fault Ticket was gone lmaoooo
Ticket "watch this" tv
13:09 "because he is really the Legend of Losing" 😂😂😂
While Ticket can be emotional, Marz shows complete ignorance to the players of the past generation. He's way too analytical and disregards context and the different dynamics of the game, then vs. today. It's funny how these young cats will swear the league today is so much more talented and skilled than it's ever been, but don't apply that same logic when it comes to evaluating the supporting cast of an Allen Iverson in comparison to a James Harden. Harden has consistently played with way more talent around him, whereas AI was surrounded by a bunch of defensive specialists in Philadelphia and had to literally carry the entire offense. Was not surrounded by shooters that can spread the floor and create open driving lanes. When he finally did beat 2-3 guys to get to the basket, he was met in the paint by REAL big men who showed him no mercy. Knocked him on his ass and they were allowed to also. Iverson was tough as nails and gave it his all on the court. I don't think anyone is questioning Harden's talent, but what is in question is his will to win and not just give up in the playoffs. If I had to trust either one to win me a playoffs series, it's Allen Iverson and it's not even close!
SUPERFACTS. Also Lo lied saying when A.I. went to Denver his efficiency didn't improve. IT ABSOLUTELY DID he shot highs from the field (46%) and True shooting percentage 57%. Lastly think about this. A.I. literally had the least offensive help of any superstar in nba history for his career how is it Harden only shoots 2% higher from the field than A.I. case closed.
@J Mar Not only that, him and Carmelo on the same team was not a good fit, considering they mirrored each other as volume shooters. Having to face the teams that went to NBA Finals two consecutive years in the first round didn't help either
@@jmar5127 talk that shit j mar
Great show fellas
I think of Westbrook and AI MVP seasons as similar. Both had high end defenses and had to bulk produce on offense. Their bad shooting splits matter but still helped their team because their team needed offense BAD.
Their efficiency doesn’t matter… if you have no shooting around you and you have to shoulder the offense with zone defenses etc, you’re efficiency is always going to be shit.
@@hueyfreeman7184 Kobe on the lakers after shaq and Lebron on the lakers without AD due to injury are 2 examples of players being efficient without good offensive players around them. Trae young was efficient his sophomore season despite his team shooting the 2nd worst from 3 in the league. Karl Anthony towns has been efficient more or less hos entire career despite being on multiple teams ranking bottom 10 in 3P%. Pascal siakam was moderately efficient with putting up 26PPG last year and the raptors were one of the poorer shooting teams. So you can’t really use that as a full excuse. We’ve seen multiple guys be efficient on teams with bad spacing while being the focal point of an offense.
@@Scorpion62121 1) by that logic Russ was efficient. 2) you just named wing players… your argument is ass. Trae young always had shooting around him, and was the shooter to… A.I and Russ are guards who live at the rim. Thus if they don’t have shooting around them they will be inefficient. Especially if they are their only offense.
That’s Allen iverson whole sixers career
Harden not taking sixers as far as ai did
I agree with Ticket on AI vs Harden. Harden flops and foul baits. AI was a better player off the strength. I’m 25.
It would be harder for him to play with the same amount of talent when it was less talent back then 😂
I feel like this is a weird time where newer basketball fans and analysts argue more-so off of stats and efficiency, while older ones don’t care about the box-score AT ALL. The answer is in the middle of Ticket and Marz imo… AI had too much heart to not be ranked over Harden imo.
Well said. AI was far better than Harden.
I fully agree with this because there is a middle ground but the newer gen has no real frame of reference aside from numbers and the context is missing entirely and they think they can't be talked to. They refuse to entertain the fact they might not know everything because Google is effectively their entire brain. It's ignorance but it's because of a lack of experience and knowledge.
Ron won the show wit “Makes sense… the boy African” 🤣😂
Y’all wrong for kicking ticket out
They didn’t kick him out, Ron put him in the waiting room because everyone was ready to move the conversation along and he chose to keep going. He gets mad when he gets muted because he just keeps going far after the conversation is done. That’s on him not on Ron. He got muted, un muted himself, continued going, got muted again, unmuted himself, kept going, and then go out in the waiting room. If you’re having a meeting and someone continues on the prior subject when the meeting is moving on you aren’t going to have them removed from the meeting?
He need to learn to respect the host. This ain’t his platform or show. If they gotta move on to discuss other topics, he needs to respect that. Over talks everyone to begin with.
@@christopherd.3291 they could have put him on mute
@@robertclark3497 they tried, he kept unmuting himself, the only option was to put him in the gulag
The gulags 🤣🤣🤣
All time great episode
None of what Low said about the conferences matter. It’s all relative. Philly was on par with the rest of the East playoff teams, which means It was competitive and there was no guarantee Philly makes the Finals. That makes leading that team to the Finals more Impressive.
Nah, the east was crazy weak compared to modern. Most of those teams wouldn’t even be 6th seeds in todays league. Iverson beating those teams to
Go to the finals is less impressive.
@@tommartyn524 I see you’re missing the point. Do you believe Iverson and the 76ers were head and shoulders above the rest of the East stars and their teams? Would you say Philly was a modern level team feasting on a weak conference In that era? Or would you say Philly and Iverson was on par with Vince and Toronto, Pierce and Boston, Ray and Milwaukee, Reggie and Indy, Kidd and Jersey, etc…and the other teams of that era?? If they were a weak conference compared to other eras, but Philly was on par with those teams, then they were all competitive with one another. Not to mention when they got to the Finals they got a win against the team that nobody from the stronger conference got a win on, because of Iverson.
@@Dologaming24 harden was one game
Away from the finals after taking the BEST team ever assembled to 7 games. That in my opinion is more impressive than anything iverson did. I guess it’s all subjective. I don’t think beating weak eastern conference teams just to get smoked in the finals is impressive.
The debate is between harden and iverson. I think harden taking the warriors to 7 games is more impressive than what iverson did, also harden has better stats and was the overall better player. Those two things is why I think Haden was better
@@tommartyn524 that wasn’t the best team ever. Those Lakers would’ve washed the Warriors. Nobody got a game of the Lakers except Philly. All Harden needed was one win out of two games. They had one of the worst team performances ever., led by him. CP was the reason they had a chance to win that series, not Harden. His play style wasn’t conducive to winning. Having better numbers In a easier league ain’t gonna cut It.
@@tommartyn524 they didn’t take the warriors to 7. Stop saying that. They were UP. And choked to winnable games.
My question to anyone is how do we recognize the difference between a great “defensive” era and an era that was filled with “low skill”’ “terrible offensive schemes” and was “iso heavy “
Ticket Mars has repeatedly told you he's watched the past games over and over and over. I would bet anything he's watched more of the historic games from the early 60-80s then anyone on the show almost.
I’ve went back and watched games from eras too but u still can’t grasp the ups and downs of the full season and the story lines without living through it that does hold value
@@Thereaper5it certainly does ive always said storylines and narratives are stuff i cant grasp unless the commentators talk about it,but also when im judging a player its just what u do on the court those storylines dont hold extra weight to me
@@JG4TheGOAT I feel u Marz that’s your opinion but let’s be real those storylines do help define players careers which is why most people may overrate or underrate certain players not saying I agree but to some people all that holds weight
@@Thereaper5 yeah i understand it
How old was mars in 2001🤣
You can’t bring up defense and not put the Cavs in the top tier when they have the best defense in the league
you cannot boil a players career down to moments and series , but when it comes to Harden , its different , because it’s a pattern and can’t be dismissed
1) as a 6 man in OKC mans played terrible in the finals relative
2) 2014 was the 4th best player in the series behind dame, Aldridge and Dwight
3)2015 vs warriors ; games 3 and 5 , 17 points and 14 points respectively in key games
4) 2017 disgraceful, game 6 NO KAWHI & TONY PARKER and
5)2018 vs warriors , game 6 up 17
6) 2018 vs warriors game 7 , up 16 , shot 1-10 in the 2nd half
7)2019 , NO DURANT , steph had 0 at the half .
8)2020 - 2-11 fg% vs the lakers in the bubble in game 4, a pivotal game
9)2021 - harden on the nets mans ain’t even try to help Durant
10)2022 , scored 20+ in 2 out of the 6 games vs Miami
These are not only pivotal games, moments and series, but they were very win-able situations for Harden to lead his teams through and he was the one who didn’t show during these times. Harden’s efficiency stats don’t contextualize these choke jobs.
It’s every year he never fails
@@DontAdoreYou yeah , typically I agree that we can’t pick and choose but this shit is routine with Harden. I can’t think of any big playoff game that he actually came through and prevailed … maybe game 7 in the bubble , but he played TRASH in that game , just came up with the stop at the end
They would never beat the lakers that bubble year do you forget they would double Harden and leave Russ to shoot
Against the warriors ok Durant is out but what about klay and curry were they not playing that Is still two scorers against one
2018 what about the other rocket players they were shooting bricks on wide open shots from Harden passes
Early 2000s was a super defensive era. They wrong about the east and they wrong about AI vs Harden.
Marz completely disrespects iverson. Majority of scorers didn’t shoot very efficient to begin with, so to hold it against ai is crazy
looooool,here we go again w people who dont listen
Bro, his nickname is literally Bubba Chuck lol.
Just give respect to a man that was under 6ft it’s hard to score in this league especially when average height was like 6’4 in the league
@@IDoThisNoCAP Bro nobody’s sayin AI wasn’t great he’s just not James Harden
@@MegaKhalid121 I hear ya but I’m just saying my part as well put some respect on a dude that was under 6’0 simple
early 2000’s eastern conference is literally the worst it’s ever been. if that doesn’t make it trash, nothing else will.
Yo chill, Amare was rhe guy on the suns? 😂😂😂
The nash disrespect is CRAAZYYY
26 and 9 dirk numbers
@@Coldskin1
We all know who the best player and mvp on the team was tho... lol. These elementary stats dont tell the whole story
Soon as ticket left the convo became a actual convo and not screaming ang yelling over people like he did
First off Harden is a quitter… when the going gets tough that dude starts complaining, lacks on defense, pointing fingers, whining and crying calls… Harden has always had 2 to 3 other offensive players to bail him out from the start of his career… we all know James Harden is scatter brained and lazy asf on Defense… there’s many clips of him just giving up and allowing players to jus score… thas jus defense… Allen was a play maker on defense AND offense consistently every night… on offense James Harden has NEVER had to carry the load all by himself… he doesn’t get double teamed l, he dribble dribble dribble dribble between the legs, triple travel step back 3(in which now refs been calling that Easter bunny travel hop and the ripping his arms through the defenders to get goof ball calls to go to the line…) and he hasn’t been hitting those for the past 5 years… All in all plz stop saying Harden was more efficient when he’s had the luxury of playing in a era designed and mapped for more offensive scoring and opportunities😐 brah he’s efficient on offense because the game now has been molded for Offensive supremacy! You young dudes that have never played basketball at a level higher than 2k in middle school really needs to water down
💯
How marz messed up is when he said, "when you stop minimize players careers by moments." Moments is a major part in legacy, moments show grit and heart.
Exactly which is why I love Kobe God rest his soul but the 2004 finals and that series the close out game against the sun he just refused to shoot always rubbed me the wrong way
using select moments to justify players rankings w full bodies of work is crazy to me
y’all gotta scrap with that uncut hoops dude
@MaxR1983 he’s a nobody he wouldn’t stand a chance against LOW or marz. he could maybe win against everyone else
why did ron call himself that after kicking ticket at 42:14
Yall know he was talking about a fictional character lmao
@@MegaKhalid121 oh i thought he was talkin bout something else by the way everyone reacted
@@mmvb4 it’s because geppetto is what people say to refer to pedophiles when on RUclips to not be demonitized and still make money on their vids. Ron was talking about being the guy from Pinocchio, who was a puppeteer so he was pulling the strings
Giannis did more then kahwi he has more mvps everyone already says that finals mvp for the spurs he just got that for guarding bron💯,so both of them in my eyes got 1 chip as the man they both got dpoys and giannis is way more dominant so if I got kahwi in the top 20 u gotta have Giannis there.
Facts, I personally have kawhi top 30 myself (he has the talent of a top 15 player) and giannis is top 25 for me (potential to be a top 10 guy alltime)
Lmaooo ur a casual then , kawhi was the best player on that spurs team they dont win nothing at all without him , giannis choked 2-0 lead against kawhi as well, kawhi 2 finals mvp to giannis one and that one chip giannis won is a hospital ass ring to😂
Fluent had a mvp performance this pod
C'mon bro, Yes Kawhi doesn't have the longevity but he is a top 10 sf of all time. You can't tell me that he isn't greater than at least Dominique, Worthy, Pierce or Carmelo.
The older guys talk about what they saw and some of that the stat can not show. The young guys are going by computer stats and modern players play just for individual statistics so that can get bigger contracts
Kobe was a better defender, a better shooter, free throw shooter, a better offensive rebounder, and the fact that it took Lebron playing alongside Kobe in the Olympics to understand the immense level of dedication and work ethic it actually took to be great in the NBA matters.
Lebron was a better playmaker, cool. Outside of that Lebron does nothing better then Kobe at all.
Kobe worked with Hakeem to improve his post game, Lebron was the first to copy that.
Kobe literally set the tone for the league from 2007-2013 which is insane because that’s after having some of the craziest performances from 2000-2006 which includes his bad years where he still put up monster performances.
Kobe is better then Lebron.
Lebron is a better passer playmaker finisher scorer and rebounder 💀
Ayo i put yall in my columbia university application love the pod
This is truly one time Lo and Marz show when u didn't watch your entire view is completely Shot, borderline ignorant, and I usually agree with alot of their points
These are the only 5 people I want to see on the panel the other guys are boring I can watch them 5 all day
Low said Nash shouldn't have them MVPs but put him over Stockton because he had MVPs 🤣🤣🤣🤣 y'all wild
i think he means that at least nash was consistently in the mvp race in those phoenix year compared to stockton who wasn’t
Those Phoenix Suns teams had the perfect roster for D'Antoni's inflated offense
Stockton actual plays defense and avg more assists. The only thing nash great at.
@@Coldskin1 nash was a great shooter and a good scorer. he shot low volume but his efficiency was all-time great
Regardless of what anyone says of magic with Kareem and John with Karl. Kobe played with Shaq and he isnt top 20 assist leaders. He also played with pau and Lamar and Andrew, and Shannon. And he’s not even top 30 assist leaders
They call harden a choker and Cp3 a choker but they was favorite to beat the warriors.,😂😂😂😂😂
Kobe wasn’t even playing point guard (granted Fischer wasn’t putting up high assist totals either), and apart from Stockton’s abilities, the Jazz arguably had less playmaking outside of their top passer than Los Angeles in the early 2000’s did.
Kobe also wasn’t quite as durable as Stockton arguably.
@@fortynights1513 agreed
@@fortynights1513 it doesn’t matter if he wasn’t playing point guard. Lebron has more assist than Kobe if u at 15 years for Lebron and Kobe. That’s why Lebron is going to finally beat Kobe at most missed shots in league history. It took Lebron 6 extra years to beat that. But no time to beat him in assists.
Mars and low don’t know shut about basketball they jus look up numbers shit is crazy how bad these takes be
Lebron vs the Celtics IS a viable rivalry when KG says "He couldn't beat all 5 of us"
Not putting Steph as a point guard is just a excuse to not give him his credit in the same category as James harden😂😂😂
Steph doesn't playmake he's just a scorer
@@heigherheights21 so a scoring point guard😭
I thought Van Horn would be the help Iverson needed.
Hey guys I don’t know if y’all know but In that infamous finals game everyone always use for iverson….he went on a 22 minute scoring drought in the 4th until the last couple mins and overtime.
Low and Marz never watched basketball stop lying. Efficiency is based off numbers and doest win championships
2:44:29 my internet literally disconnected when bobby said this 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Low sound like an aunt when he yells
lo swear this era better then all the others 😂
It is tho
@@MWKDaGoat yall only say that because everybody chucks 3 pointers now.
I don't think the older panelist understand that you can check stats compared to the rest of the league that season. For example, the 2001 Raptors were 8th in Off rating, 13th defensive rating. That means they were an above average team. This isn't inpressive because 16/29 teams made the playoffs, meaning the average is a 7th seed team.
Fluent says he doesn’t hate kd but said he wouldn’t be a superstar this year for no reason and he was clearly wrong lol