It just fits better with epilogue. It means more for someone like waller to understand that the world needs batman. She was never bruce's friend or ally, but she will do whatever she feels is best for her country. The notion of another bruce clone is interesting, though. It would be cool to see how that would have played out. With that said, a new batman beyond movie would be great. We've had 2 DCAU movies recently and the BB bluray is coming out. Maybe if we drum up enough noise about it.... 🤔 #StormWB
@@srstriker6420 Despite waller being christian she does mention that she thinks after all that she's done once she's being judged after death that god would understand that some of the bad she was doing in the end was for the greater good.
FengxianLeTerrible but we don't know how God thinks and good is a matter of perspective, Waller and rest of Cadmus believe they were the heroes of their story or a Grammy flash says that an eye for an eye turns everyone blind
I have some issues with DCAU Catwoman, but making her into a Mad Scientist/Vigilante would make no sense with what we know about her. In fact, it would've made more sense if it was Andrea Beaumont, since that would justify the similarities between this movie and Mask of the Phantasm. Either way, I still think Epilogue was a better way of resolving that plotline.
Plus Selina was never a killer, she never crossed that line so her being critical of Bruce's choice to spare criminals' lives seems as out of character as having her be enough of a biochemist to clone people. Epilogue was better by far having it be Amanda Waller, she's morally gray enough to want there to be a Batman and connected enough to high tech companies to carry out a DNA altering thing that caused Terry to share genes with Bruce.
@Kimberly Terasaki Andrea Beaumont AKA Phantasm was the potential assassin who could have killed Terry's biological parents and changed her mind, so technically she was contracted BY Waller, so Epilogue tied up all of the loose ends in my opinion.
Agreed. Hell, she was the victim of a mad scientist's genetic research in TAS. Actually, shit. That would explain how she did it at least, digging out that guy's tech.
The idea of Terry being Bruce's son has always fascinated me. Everyone keeps saying that that takes away the idea of him just happening to become Batman, but it actually proves something else. Yes, he was MEANT to be Batman. But the project fell through. By the time he meets Bruce, he isn't meant to be anything. He *IS* just some random kid who found the Batcave. It *IS* pure luck that Bruce found the right kid to take over. The coincidence is that it is the person they specifically created. It literally could've been anyone, it just happened to be him. Plus...it means a part of Bruce will continue to take care of Gotham... And if Dana said yes to Terry's proposal, the Wayne line will continue to do so.
Yeah, he is STILL just an ordinary random kid, despite him and his brother being Bruce's sons... they are STILL the sons of Warren and Marry... and people people don't understand that...
I also enjoy the effect on Terry's character. He sees how Bruce ended up in Epilogue, and decides to not live like that. To be better than his father. It really amplifies the juxtaposition of Bruce and Terry that the final fight in Return Of The Joker set up.
Its the implication that its because of his genes that hes an efficient Batman. It makes sense that people might find that unnecessary or makes it feel more fated. Imo it doesnt really add anything at all and maybe not more fated since its circumstancial, but the implication of those genes being needed to be Batman and not like idk tragedy (which Spider-Verse 2 deconstructs) or disipline. Idk Ive heard only Bruce Timm was really pushing for it.@@RealRoboKnight
No ones gonna mention how similar the catwoman thing is to what Talia ACTUALLY did with Damian? The whole cloning thing. Making multiple clones. Having an evil super suited brain washed clone?
That’s probably what inspired the creation of Damian Wayne. Afterall, the cancelled sequel to Batman and Robin was an inspiration for the Batman Arkham Knight video game.
To me, epilogue was the final piece of the puzzle. Consider that both of Terry’s parents are red heads. Its unlikely they’d produce two dark haired dark eyed kids. I always assumed that the marriage broke down either due to suspicions of infidelity or because of a dna test “confirming” it. And that makes Warren an even better person, raising, loving, and caring for two kids he believed weren’t his.
1-If he found out rather late or got Suspicious rather late, then chances are them not being his kids wouldn’t change much, yeah he be heart broken but he still raised them and care for them and whether or not he’s their biological father, he’s still their Dad and they’re still his sons, the connection and emotional attachment they’d share would be too strong at this point. 2-I don’t think it a DNA test would actually work in proving they aren’t his kids, because w what walker did was modified his seminiferous tubules with the DNA of Bruce’s, I may be wrong but I think if he did a DNA test Terry would come back as his kid due to his DNA being altered to have bits of Bruce, and most importantly he still is mostly the biological father, he convinced Terry and his brother, not bruce.
I liked the idea of Terry not being related to Bruce in any way. To me it was like the Robins, people who may have had similar situations, and felt the need to take action against crime and injustice. To me it also sends a weird message that the only people worthy of being Batman must be related to the original.I think it makes Terry a stronger character that he is worthy of the mantel due to his person character not because those traits are passed down in DNA.
Same, that's how they should have returned to the DCAU after over a decade, not the underwhelming Harley movie and that recent Justice League one that both felt like filler episodes o the shows.
I was under the impression that the final episodes of JLU were the enacted version of the near apocalypse of 09. When Darkseid came to earth again. 1st time was superman animated series finale.
I just found out that Kevin Conroy plays an old Bruce Wayne (possibly mentoring a Batman Beyind?) on CW's Crisis on Infinite Earths. I don't really watch the Arrowverse shows, but how could this not get me hyped?! It's so shway!
since you don't watch the arrowverse shows you may not be aware that in episodes of the flash, his daughter (whos time travelled to the present from the 2040s) uses the term "shway" multiple times as a nod to BB.
Very easily with it being written by CW writers and taking place on the CW, you'd easily be able to see it'll be poorly written and (for the most part) poorly-acted woke soap opera garbage.
Why not make the Catwoman Beyond movie that coincides with Epilogue? Selena became an employee for Cadmus and agreed with Waller's line of thinking. They ended up making clones first before switching over to the nano-machine stuff, Selena feels bad for one of them and adopts him. Years later she makes her own Batman after leaving Cadmus.
Honestly, so much of the foreshadowing went over my head until I heard Superman say the line, "More than you think, son." I kinda felt like they hit me over the head with that one. Lol
My mind started being blown by the idea of Selena Kyle falling for Bruce enough to even think of this kind of continuation of the Batman legacy. And there's nothing like the Batman clock. Keep it up!
I know people complain about Terry being related to Bruce because they think it diminishes him as a character, as they believe his skill is now DNA-based, but I don't believe so. Epilogue makes it clear that Terry is very different from Bruce regardless of his DNA. Also, let's remember that he doesn't really become Batman until he starts training with Bruce (with the tech suit doing most of the job for him the first few times). I think the story works a bit to recapture some of Batman's mystique. The whole project ends up being canceled and Terry's family is spared but his father ends up dying anyway, he ends up meeting Bruce by coincidence and he becomes Batman after all, which somewhat suggests he was fated to do so (the sort of thing DC would revisit time and again with Elseworlds, and can even be seen in the DCAU in The Savage Time). It also makes a lot of sense. Look at Terry and his brother. They're basically clones of each other, they look nothing like their father and they both have dark hair, neither of which their parents have. Hell, had I been Terry's father I would have been extremely suspicious of that unless their mother wasn't a natural redhead.
@@dcauwatchtower I meant that despite the fact that history is vastly different due to Nazis winning WWII, Bruce's parents were still killed and he ended up a costumed crimefighter because of it.
I think Epilogue is the best version we could've gotten of this story, as Catwoman doing it feels really out of character for her. Though, truth be told I agree with the comic writer that the reveal really undermines the idea of found family and I would've preferred they go with the found family aspect since every other one of Bruce's DCAU sons was like that. (Buuut I also don't like how Dick and Bruce fell out in the DCAU, too much darkness for darkness sake and with the gross BrucexBarbara thing. Dick Grayson is easily the most mishandled character in the DCAU, but what do ya expect when all his best character development was with the Titans who aseem to be stuck in a shrodinger's Canon state in the DCAU.)
I didn't see a need to make Terry genetically related to Bruce in the first place. But since they did I'm glad they went the Epilogue route. I thoroughly enjoyed that episode
I would have preferred that Terry remained unrelated to Bruce and the plot point was buried. If it has to happen, then Epilogue is the better choice. Catwoman in the DCAU rarely made for a good time.
Here’s the thing about epilogue: While it did kind of dampen that original message, it resolves what should be a very obvious plot hole: How in God’s name, do two gingers have not one, but two black-haired boys? There’s no suggestion of adultery on Mrs. McGinnis’ part (the divorce itself is unexplained), and I can’t be the only one to notice that Terry showed similar tendencies to Bruce, even before they met.
Definitely like the Epilogue route. As mentioned it generally makes more sense as cloning and the like isn't Selena's field. And although Jl/JLU didn't exist as a show didn't exist during Batman Beyond. I like that Epilogue intertwines Terry's story with the Justice League show and the actual organization- making things more connected.
So when he means PITCH BLACK, does he means Riddick was going to be in it. Thus Riddick and the DCAU are now in the same universe. #FiguredItOut #NotReally
Actually pretty glad this movie never got made. Sounds a bit to much like mixing mask of the phantasm and hush beyond. Everything worked out fine in the end though so all's well that ends well
The plot of Terry being closely related to Bruce actually makes a lot of sense after all with two light haired individuals where do you get not one but two kids with black hair I wonder maybe that’s why they split up
I never picked up on the genetics foreshadowing although admittedly I was like 8 or 9 at the time of beyond's airing. I always thought those hints were more pointing to Terry simply becoming more like Bruce personality wise because of the whole "mentor/pupil" relationship. That being said I think your Inque hint is a bit of a stretch
I had a dream last night where a modify version of this scrapped Plot line was used as the Story in Batman: Beyond Arkham, the sequel to Batman: Arkham apocalypse aka WB Montréal’s project Sabbath. It released in 2022 on the PS5 and Xbox Series S/X. The only detail I remember regarding gameplay was that using Batman’s Jet boots during gliding either gave you a short speed boost akin to ejecting out of the Batmobile in Arkham Knight or straight up turned gilding into driving the Batmobile, with the jet boots acting exactly like the Batmobile’s Jet engine thruster
Honestly looking back on this I'd love to see the idea of Selina raising a son that she sired with Bruce who serves as a dark reflection of Terry explored somewhere; ideally in a hypothetical revival of the show. There's a lot of potential drama there, especially with Bruce, who'd realise that he could've been raising a family this whole time instead of being stuck alone and isolated for over twenty years.
The only thing that should be retconned from "Epilogue" should be Terry's look. That 70's thrift store look with the hair, sideburns, and lips is just horrible.
I think this plot would work well as a sequel to a live-action Batman Beyond film, with Keaton & Pfeiffer back in the roles. Pfeiffer's Catwoman seems crazy enough to go through with this plan
Great video! I prefer the way things went in Epilogue, though I would also have liked a movie. The thing is, in the DCAU, Catwoman was never a big player. She was a recurring villain in the BTAS era, but she never got the kind of character development that Amanda Waller did. I'm also not a big fan of the whole 'dark reflection of Batman' archetype.
I would like if batman beyond would get a movie adaptation of 10,000 clowns, since several other batman comics got animated movies, time batman beyond got some.
The movie plot sounds absolutely horrible. Selina being the one to carry all that out sounds completely out of character and ridiculous. I do love when Batman Beyond does connections to past villains though cause the one complaint I have about BB is that it's rogues gallery of foes never resonated with me in the way that the classic Batman ones did. They should have done later seasons that had returning villains.
If they went the whole Catwoman route then Terry McGinnis should’ve just been their grandchild and any other would be clones/descendants being the targets of one that’s gone mad. Attempting to manipulate himself into being the winner of the Culling of subjects stage for the defunct prototype Beyond project. Which could lead to sarcastic implied cracks about Bruce’s bedroom skills and contraceptive preparedness being the only area he was lacking in.(when likely a large amount of them probably used fertility drugs to initially baby trap him.)
So which of Terry's Rogues Gallery would've been killed off? Shriek? Mad Stan? Spellbinder? Actually, those last two would've been pretty ironic considering a certain episode they were both in...
Ah yes, I'd read about this planned DTV a little while after Epilogue aired. Hadn’t read that detailed summary from the [Justice League] Watchtower, though, that site is a legend. And I guess we don't know for sure if it was a deliberate hint, but man, imagine if Superman HAD been in on the secret the whole time. Makes sense, though: even if no one had actually told him, a little X-Ray and microscopic vision would've done the trick
Y'know what's funny? Considering that Bruce and crew did draw some inspiration from Spider-Man to Batman Beyond, they technically almost did the Clone Saga with this cancelled movie lol. Heck, I'd argue they almost did the ORIGINAL 70s Clone Saga
I just always assumed that all the family talk had more to do with creating family over actually being one. As for Epilogue, the Terry aspect of it always seemed a little fan-fictiony to me, but it's not completely horrible. I just think it's better storytelling for Terry being his own man over him being genetically inclined to be like Bruce. Terry is a good enough character on his own, and didn't need that.
It was very fanfiction-y, but I can't say I hate it because it was presented in a unique way that leaves you with some things to ponder about. In the long run though, it wasn't something I personally needed to be an element to Terry's character since I thought his origin worked well enough before modifying it.
I'm not a big fan of the suggested route that they'd use for Selina, but then again I don't really care about Selina in the DCAU that much to begin with. Amanda Waller simply makes much more sense. Really, the only characters from the BTAS era that would've made sense in her place are Joker, whose already dead, and Hugo Strange, but even then that character' DCAU counterpart's way too incompetent to pull off something on that grand a scale convincingly. A part of me wishes that Selina was used in place of the Phantasm in Waller's plan though, even if it was only a cute little reference to their original plans.
I think Epilogue makes better sense than the Catwoman proposal. You need someone who's a "science" type for the clone proposal to work (which Catwoman is not, but Project Cadmus *is*). It was particularly genius to return Andrea Beaumont as the would-be assassin of Terry's parents. No other character would have had the intuition to understand Bruce's trauma, and have it come to the forefront of her conscience at the last minute.
I'm actually totally fine with epilogue it's one of my favorite jlu episodes as well as one of my favorite dcau episodes. I really enjoy that episode still to this day and its ramifications.
I always wanted to see terry take on nightwing on screen. Like have him be forced to help slade wilson and terry and him face off. Or I want a dc mortal kombat crossover movie where scorpion has to hunt down shinnok in the injustice universe while also taking on the league. Fatality!
I found all the foreshadowing when rewatching the entire series a couple of years ago. Characters in Batman Beyond kept mentioning how much Terry resembled Bruce with Ra’s al Ghul posing as Talia’s statement being the most prominent of all.
If the show gets sold well on Blu-Ray and gives us a 4th season then maybe they could tell us some stories about what happened to Two-Face, Ridder, and give us a look into Bruce leaving the league after Joker's death and maybe do a Selina storyline that tells us what happened between JLU and BB, but can let us know if Bruce ever did reveal his identity to her
This sounds a bit too off the wall for DCAU Catwoman. Having her go from an animal activist in BTAS to a thief that just enjoys the thrill of her extralegal activities in TNBA was fine enough, even if DCAU Catwoman was never particularly interesting in either role. But shifting her to "I'm going to clone Bruce Wayne, make him my son, possibly have sex with him, and then have him kill criminals" in Beyond just feels waaaay too insane of a change from what came before.
I think the Selena idea could have been cool, but it wouldn’t make a ton of sense. The biggest reason being that Selena Kyle never was that popular in the original animated series. They were rarely together and I can’t remember any great stories together. If Selena had a bigger story in the original series, I think she’d have made a great movie. This didn’t work though. She was overshadowed by Harley, Barbara and even Ivy.
Sounds so similar to Grant Morrison's Batman Inc. Bruce's former love interest (Talia) creating an army of clones of her and Bruce's son, Damian. Even has the evil "muscle" she controls, in The Heretic. Thinking that thru, Talia would have been a better fit than Selina for that Beyond movie. But then that would have screwed up "Out of the Past".
If Bruce being Terry's dad wasn't decided on before the first episode aired, then it's a retcon. I know you guys need clickbait, but I think the video's title should be rephrased as a question to be less misleading. Anywho, I think Epilogue works overall and prefer it to this Catwoman movie idea. But while I don't hate the Bruce-is-the-father reveal, I don't love it either. To me it comes across as pointless melodrama so Bruce and Terry can have an emotional falling out / reunion for the big finale. I see the "real" ending as the part near the end where Bruce peters Terry about getting enough to eat to keep up his strength. It's a small moment, but it reassures the audience that despite his aloofness, Bruce does love Terry, and Terry knows that and reciprocates. And I'm sure Bruce would love Terry as a son regardless of if he was biological or not, same as Bruce loves Dick and Tim (I was gonna say and Barbara too but let's, uh, leave her out of this one.. )
@@mattiesavannahpahl9934 Having a Justice League Beyond isn't a retcon because it was never established that Terry was the only superhero left (at least as far as I remember). If there'd been a line in an early episode about how Superman was dead or something, and then later Supes shows up with the Justice League, then THAT would be a retcon. The reason the Bruce-is-the-father thing is a retcon is because in the first Beyond episode, all signs indicate that Terry has a father who isn't Bruce, and to assume otherwise due to this crazy specific bizarre series of events is just unreasonable, the same way no one could have reasonably assumed Gwen Stacy slept with Norman Osborn and had his twins. All the quotes and references and stuff in this video give me the impression that the Bruce-father idea may have been around since "the beginning," but it would still be a retcon even if it was decided in episode 2. If you can find a quote saying they were 100% locked in on the idea since *before the pilot episode was even scripted,* then that would change my mind (Also if that was really the case I think there would've been some clear foreshadowing in the pilot, but I don't think the show started dropping hints until later on). Also, I should say that I don't think retcons are inherently bad. I actually really like Epilogue. A retcon is just a storytelling tool. It's retroactive continuity, meaning something was established already but then the writers changed their mind. I guess you could argue that father-reveals shouldn't be considered retcons, since people in real life can learn they're adopted and that of course doesn't mean reality got retconned (OR DOES IT DUN DUN DUUUUUH?). But I think it's different in storytelling, especially when the father is made such a central figure to the protagonist's motivations. Like, if J. K. Rowling wrote a new Harry Potter book where we learn Snape is actually Harry's real father because the Ministry of Magic magically cloned him or something, that'd obviously be a huge retcon, and if J. K. Rowling said she'd planned it all from the start, I'd personally be extremely skeptical. Just my opinion though and I know I'm arguing semantics here. I still really enjoyed the video!
I’ve got to admit that even though I do love Epilogue the plot for the Catwoman movie sounds amazing to me no matter how out of character it is for her, and no matter how similar it is to Mask of the Phantasm and Return of the Joker. I love the idea of her having her own Bruce Wayne clone that goes around killing famous villains.
Terry should have been Bruce's Maternal Grandson. WIth Mary McGinnies being actual born Helenna Kyle the orginal Huntress though not active obviously and his grandmother being Catwoman.
I thought it came out of no where but I think it's better that way. It wouldn't of been such a huge reveal if I had picked up on the foreshadowing. That's kinda of the point though you're not suppose to notice that the foreshadowing is even there until after the reveal. If you notice it right away and the reveal isn't a surprise to you then it's not foreshadowing it's just spoilers.
No to any new BB movie unless it's a Live Action version that directly ties into a New Motion Picture DCU! Perhaps after the new Batman movie that's coming out has garnished some success, assuming it does, establishing the former Harry Potter and Twilight star in the titular role, Robert Pattinson, then perhaps we can be treated to a time displaced Batman Beyond visitor within the Batman franchise before he gets his own spinoff movie, wouldn't that be something?
Honestly I just think that though terry is biologically Bruce’s kid, he’s also biologically his original father (the one who died, cannot remember his name unfortunately). So I just think that terry has two fathers and a mother, with his D.N.A. combination of 50% his mother, 25% of mr. McGinnis, and 25% of Bruce Wayne.
To be honest I was the good Bruce figured out the Terry is it genetic sand of his because of the bats suit I like to think he put some sort of DNA lock on it because I don’t think anyone but him and Terry use that suit besides a computer program thing I maybe wrong
I always assumed he was Bruce's son the whole time without even thinking too far into things, and that Bruce knew. There were too many hints and references, not to mention how a complete random would even be in that role to begin with. Either that, or some lame twist that he was the son of Robin (probably Dick) instead.
I think just seeing another Batman Beyond DTV film, period, would've been epic. I loved epilogue as it is, but I think a film set in that particular part of the timeline would've been amazing. You know, a Justice League of the future film.
It still felt like a retcon though. I shouldn’t be expected to know the behind the scenes to forgive what I thought was a dumb plot point. The only good thing about epilogue was getting to revisit Batman Beyond with an even older Terry and Bruce. Aside from that I hated that they written it so Bruce and Terry are related. It’s undermines Terry as an individual character and makes me dislike how Bruce is made to be so flawless that the Batman mantel couldn’t be passed down to someone who isn’t related.
A Batman Beyond sequel to Return Of The Joker would have been fantastic but the idea of Selina Kyle being the one responsible for Terry Mcginnis being a clone of Bruce Wayne just made no sense and plus she wouldn't have the knowledge or skill to pull off something like that, i'm glad they went with the idea of Amanda Waller coming up with Project Batman Beyond in 'Epilogue which was much more believable and made sense from a story point of view especially as she has the resources and her belief that the world will always need a Batman was a great reason for the whole cloning process. Terry being the son / clone of Bruce Wayne is shocking but at the same time it's a very cool twist as it's the last thing anyone expect and that's why it worked so well. I'm glad they never went with Catwoman Beyond as a main villain but still would have been awesome to see Selina have a scene or two with Bruce. It is really interesting to hear what could have been a Beyond sequel but overall i'm happy with the one we got already but it would be nice to have a new animated movie as it's been 19 years since the last one and we're long overdue for another. Hush Beyond perhaps? Or how about Apocalypse of 09? We need more Batman Beyond. Make it so *in Patrick Stewart voice*
The Epilogue version definitely works better, but its a plot point I've never been overly fond of. As much as I liked the episode and thought it was (initially) a great note to end the DCAU on, Terry having to be Bruce's biological son never sat right with me. I liked the idea that Terry was some punk kid with potential, who had the right amount of drive and heart to become Batman's successor. It had this Ratatouille-esque theme that anyone from any background can become something great, so long as they have the ambition and resources to do so. Bruce being his father muddies the waters a bit; it implies you can only be someone like Batman if you're his blood-relative, rather than work to be like him. It makes Terry's life and career as a superhero feel like his inescapable destiny rather than something he worked to achieve; even if Waller does try to sugarcoat it in the episode.
I liked the original "Epilog" just fine. The Selina Kyle/full clone thing just doesn't do anything for me. I'd rather have the Waller/techno-son version. Always wondered what would happen if Terry's little brother Matt found out while he was still a kid; probably would start trying to be a new Robin ...
What do I think - That the "Batwoman" costume from the BTAS movie "Mystery of the Batwoman" was supposed to be "Batgirl Beyond", and that Max was supposed to be "Batgirl Beyond". Also, "Mystery of the Batwoman" is merely a rehash of "Mask of the Phantasm". Foreshadowing - a mix of both, actually...
Nah, the Batwoman costume was created for this movie. But it definitely has some influences from Beyond! Or, the other way around, in-universe… (we’ve got a video about that, too)
Although epilogue has a much cleaner and probably stronger narrative, along with a cleaner backstory for Terry's genetics thanks to Cadmus' previously established cloning tech and Waller's shady dealings, I feel like another Batman Beyond movie would be a lot more valuable in terms of content for that series, since it would be an entire second film rather than a tribute episode.
Actually, I didn't even know about Batman Beyond until he was first introduced in JLU. Eventually, I wound up watching the entire Batman Beyond series on a youtube playlist made by some random guy, it's most likely taken down by now, but I still vividly remember every second of the 3 seasons of Batman Beyond.
The take away that on one wants to talk about from Epilogue is what is also did to connect Batman with his primary origin source and make it a book end to another Batman TAS episode, Beware The Gray Ghost. There is a common idea among fans that the Gray Ghost is based on the Shadow, but three years before Batman was created, another Comic Strip character was created. This character still exists and is still running in the News paper comic strip section (in some places, mostly outside of the U.S.). This character is the Phantom, the Ghost who walks, the Man who cannot die! But when Lee Faulk created this character his original name was "the Gray Ghost, and his outfit was more like that if the Character in the Batman Episode. Now part of the back story of the Phantom is it is a mantel passed form father to sun, and there have been 22 Phantoms over the years, The 24 had an animated series in the 1990's, and in 2010 the 23 had a mini series on Syfy. But the point is Epilogue added this final piece of the Phantom Story to Batman. And As per the shirt of the Vidoe's host: All of that could be accomplished is American refused to buy anything make outside the U.S. That is the only way to get "Jobs for all" As we have seen Socialism has not and will not work! And even some of the so called "democratic Socialist nation pointed to by it supporters (most of how have asked that people stop doing such, because they say that are not) use a great deal of protectionism to maintain there tax base and economy! So either way buy American is going to have to happen to have what you want, and if the American people do such on their own, we don't get all the negative of socialism.
On the point of foreshadowing their relationship, I always thought that Terry's hair (and his brother's hair) was a big giveaway. His father has light brown hair and his mother was a redhead. Terry had black hair like Bruce, which was something I noticed as a kid. Plus, they even had the same eye color. A detail that I think was extra interesting because most characters just have black dots for eyes.
Don’t like the unmade movie idea, never like Bruce being terry’s bio father but I accept it. Those “foreshadowing” scenes seem like a stronger plot point or conflict if terry and Bruce were just found family.
I mean, the only people who have grey eyes and black hair are Bruce, Terry, and Matt. Terry was also a freakishly good fighter before even meeting Bruce. The writing was on the wall from the first episode.
This sounds more like a Talia al Ghul plot, rather than Selina's. Very close to what Grant Morrison's done with her, including an artificial son of Bruce that serves as her muscle - Heretic. DCOMU has sort of adapted that storyline in "Batman: Bad Blood".
What if they had combined the two versions of the story. Have Selina go to Waller with her idea of continuing the Batman legacy with clones. Amanda has the tech and the power to pull it off. But similarly to the original version none of the other clones become anything special after their parents get murdered. Leading to Cadmus abandoning the project even with the last two still out there. That could be why Terry's parents weren't killed. Because by then they had given up. So Selina takes it upon herself to raise one while Terry goes on to become Batman.
*Irony at it's finest.* Adopted Son thinks he found new family after circumstances with his old one only to discover his new family is his original family. I don't think the writer not knowing the truth behind epilogue downolays it at all. In fact it makes the writing 3x better because it doesn't take away that Terry grew up with a different family and it still hits a note in that unknown to Bruce or Terry they had no idea how right they really were. In fact it's so good even the writers created forshadowing for it without ever intending to. That's not a mistake that my friends is REAL LIFE ART.
:51 Out of curiosity Matt, what Numbers did Warner Home Video expect Return of The Joker to make during it's initial release? In other words VHS, DVD Sales and that small theaterical release in Japan.
It just fits better with epilogue. It means more for someone like waller to understand that the world needs batman. She was never bruce's friend or ally, but she will do whatever she feels is best for her country. The notion of another bruce clone is interesting, though. It would be cool to see how that would have played out.
With that said, a new batman beyond movie would be great. We've had 2 DCAU movies recently and the BB bluray is coming out. Maybe if we drum up enough noise about it.... 🤔
#StormWB
FengxianLeTerrible but it does go against nature
@@srstriker6420 and?
FengxianLeTerrible it's playing God!
@@srstriker6420 Despite waller being christian she does mention that she thinks after all that she's done once she's being judged after death that god would understand that some of the bad she was doing in the end was for the greater good.
FengxianLeTerrible but we don't know how God thinks and good is a matter of perspective, Waller and rest of Cadmus believe they were the heroes of their story or a Grammy flash says that an eye for an eye turns everyone blind
I have some issues with DCAU Catwoman, but making her into a Mad Scientist/Vigilante would make no sense with what we know about her. In fact, it would've made more sense if it was Andrea Beaumont, since that would justify the similarities between this movie and Mask of the Phantasm. Either way, I still think Epilogue was a better way of resolving that plotline.
Plus Selina was never a killer, she never crossed that line so her being critical of Bruce's choice to spare criminals' lives seems as out of character as having her be enough of a biochemist to clone people. Epilogue was better by far having it be Amanda Waller, she's morally gray enough to want there to be a Batman and connected enough to high tech companies to carry out a DNA altering thing that caused Terry to share genes with Bruce.
Kimberly Terasaki maybe this would be Hugo strange thing
@Kimberly Terasaki Andrea Beaumont AKA Phantasm was the potential assassin who could have killed Terry's biological parents and changed her mind, so technically she was contracted BY Waller, so Epilogue tied up all of the loose ends in my opinion.
@@DavidTSmith-jn5bs Yeah, that's what I was referring to.
Agreed. Hell, she was the victim of a mad scientist's genetic research in TAS. Actually, shit. That would explain how she did it at least, digging out that guy's tech.
Epilogue for life. RIP Dwayne McDuffie
@nicholascooney man dude he's been dead for years
@@alexdenty7041 But he was the GOAT
@@alexdenty7041😅❤a 7:40 ❤
I WILL ALWAYS LOVE❤️💕💗THE GREAT DWAYNE MCDUFFIE
The plot of this unmade movie sounds like the plot of Metal Gear Solid.
lol yes
I miss the real mgs , that game needs its narrative and it’s gameplay
Batman gear solid v: the phatasam mask
@@joeeljalapeno1816 Batman gear solid: Bat Eater
So Liquid Terry?
The idea of Terry being Bruce's son has always fascinated me.
Everyone keeps saying that that takes away the idea of him just happening to become Batman, but it actually proves something else.
Yes, he was MEANT to be Batman. But the project fell through. By the time he meets Bruce, he isn't meant to be anything.
He *IS* just some random kid who found the Batcave. It *IS* pure luck that Bruce found the right kid to take over.
The coincidence is that it is the person they specifically created. It literally could've been anyone, it just happened to be him.
Plus...it means a part of Bruce will continue to take care of Gotham...
And if Dana said yes to Terry's proposal, the Wayne line will continue to do so.
Yeah, he is STILL just an ordinary random kid, despite him and his brother being Bruce's sons... they are STILL the sons of Warren and Marry... and people people don't understand that...
I also enjoy the effect on Terry's character. He sees how Bruce ended up in Epilogue, and decides to not live like that. To be better than his father. It really amplifies the juxtaposition of Bruce and Terry that the final fight in Return Of The Joker set up.
Its the implication that its because of his genes that hes an efficient Batman. It makes sense that people might find that unnecessary or makes it feel more fated. Imo it doesnt really add anything at all and maybe not more fated since its circumstancial, but the implication of those genes being needed to be Batman and not like idk tragedy (which Spider-Verse 2 deconstructs) or disipline. Idk Ive heard only Bruce Timm was really pushing for it.@@RealRoboKnight
No ones gonna mention how similar the catwoman thing is to what Talia ACTUALLY did with Damian? The whole cloning thing. Making multiple clones. Having an evil super suited brain washed clone?
huh i didn't really think about that but you're right...
Exactly what I've been thinking, I wish there was another batman beyond movie involving damian wayne
That’s probably what inspired the creation of Damian Wayne. Afterall, the cancelled sequel to Batman and Robin was an inspiration for the Batman Arkham Knight video game.
@@bigstunna2049 They did a really good storyline involving him in the BB Comics.
@@bigstunna2049
ruclips.net/video/JsEmGMDxuRk/видео.html
To me, epilogue was the final piece of the puzzle. Consider that both of Terry’s parents are red heads. Its unlikely they’d produce two dark haired dark eyed kids. I always assumed that the marriage broke down either due to suspicions of infidelity or because of a dna test “confirming” it. And that makes Warren an even better person, raising, loving, and caring for two kids he believed weren’t his.
1-If he found out rather late or got Suspicious rather late, then chances are them not being his kids wouldn’t change much, yeah he be heart broken but he still raised them and care for them and whether or not he’s their biological father, he’s still their Dad and they’re still his sons, the connection and emotional attachment they’d share would be too strong at this point.
2-I don’t think it a DNA test would actually work in proving they aren’t his kids, because w what walker did was modified his seminiferous tubules with the DNA of Bruce’s, I may be wrong but I think if he did a DNA test Terry would come back as his kid due to his DNA being altered to have bits of Bruce, and most importantly he still is mostly the biological father, he convinced Terry and his brother, not bruce.
I liked the idea of Terry not being related to Bruce in any way. To me it was like the Robins, people who may have had similar situations, and felt the need to take action against crime and injustice. To me it also sends a weird message that the only people worthy of being Batman must be related to the original.I think it makes Terry a stronger character that he is worthy of the mantel due to his person character not because those traits are passed down in DNA.
But where could Selina Kyle have *possibly* acquired Bruce Wayne's DNA to make clones?
Oh.
Not remotely what I meant!
Selina Kyle
Hmm... 🤔 Let's think about it
Personally, I would have wanted to see a Justice League movie about "The Near Apocalypse of '09".
Cartoon Getaway or where it came in
Same, that's how they should have returned to the DCAU after over a decade, not the underwhelming Harley movie and that recent Justice League one that both felt like filler episodes o the shows.
Dark Woods random episodes
I was under the impression that the final episodes of JLU were the enacted version of the near apocalypse of 09. When Darkseid came to earth again. 1st time was superman animated series finale.
No the near apocalypse was to do with Ras Al Ghul
I just found out that Kevin Conroy plays an old Bruce Wayne (possibly mentoring a Batman Beyind?) on CW's Crisis on Infinite Earths.
I don't really watch the Arrowverse shows, but how could this not get me hyped?! It's so shway!
Lol shway
since you don't watch the arrowverse shows you may not be aware that in episodes of the flash, his daughter (whos time travelled to the present from the 2040s) uses the term "shway" multiple times as a nod to BB.
Very easily with it being written by CW writers and taking place on the CW, you'd easily be able to see it'll be poorly written and (for the most part) poorly-acted woke soap opera garbage.
Martin Sevcech frfr
So yeah~... How did it go?
Why not make the Catwoman Beyond movie that coincides with Epilogue?
Selena became an employee for Cadmus and agreed with Waller's line of thinking.
They ended up making clones first before switching over to the nano-machine stuff, Selena feels bad for one of them and adopts him.
Years later she makes her own Batman after leaving Cadmus.
Honestly, so much of the foreshadowing went over my head until I heard Superman say the line, "More than you think, son." I kinda felt like they hit me over the head with that one. Lol
Who else loves watchtower and Batman beyond.
The Selena plotline sounds a lot like the Batman Inc. comic plotline with Talia's clone of Damian.
Only difference, is Batman Inc only is in the Main Continuity Comics
Not the DCAU
exactly! it really does.
Wish they included Epilogue in Batman Beyond's re-release
The show deserves one more season like Teen Titans
David Maldo speaking of we have been doped
Yeah one more season to prove that terry is worth as batman if he takes down inque on his OWN.
Andrew Sung or the titans taking down Slade
Teen Titans needs fucking Batman.
Actually it was slated for 1 more. But either JL or YJ got contract. Staff moved over.
Return of the Joker
Return of the Jedi
Dang Mark Hamill. Returning everywhere. Lol
I really wish Helena Wayne existed and she could have been Terry's half sister
SR Striker that’s a Good idea
legoBuilder1999 thank you
SR Striker yeah no problem the DCAU and the teen Titian’s 2003 series is my favorite part of DC
I feel like having Selina and Bruce have a secret child could definitely have worked even in BB.
Nightman221k yeah and maybe bring a few old villains like penguin and Riddler
I always love hearing about cancelled projects and storylines. I loved this video. Great job!
My mind started being blown by the idea of Selena Kyle falling for Bruce enough to even think of this kind of continuation of the Batman legacy. And there's nothing like the Batman clock. Keep it up!
Kendrick Harris- Kenfinity some loyalty
I know people complain about Terry being related to Bruce because they think it diminishes him as a character, as they believe his skill is now DNA-based, but I don't believe so. Epilogue makes it clear that Terry is very different from Bruce regardless of his DNA. Also, let's remember that he doesn't really become Batman until he starts training with Bruce (with the tech suit doing most of the job for him the first few times).
I think the story works a bit to recapture some of Batman's mystique. The whole project ends up being canceled and Terry's family is spared but his father ends up dying anyway, he ends up meeting Bruce by coincidence and he becomes Batman after all, which somewhat suggests he was fated to do so (the sort of thing DC would revisit time and again with Elseworlds, and can even be seen in the DCAU in The Savage Time).
It also makes a lot of sense. Look at Terry and his brother. They're basically clones of each other, they look nothing like their father and they both have dark hair, neither of which their parents have. Hell, had I been Terry's father I would have been extremely suspicious of that unless their mother wasn't a natural redhead.
What’s the fate thing in Savage Time?
@@dcauwatchtower I meant that despite the fact that history is vastly different due to Nazis winning WWII, Bruce's parents were still killed and he ended up a costumed crimefighter because of it.
I think Epilogue is the best version we could've gotten of this story, as Catwoman doing it feels really out of character for her. Though, truth be told I agree with the comic writer that the reveal really undermines the idea of found family and I would've preferred they go with the found family aspect since every other one of Bruce's DCAU sons was like that. (Buuut I also don't like how Dick and Bruce fell out in the DCAU, too much darkness for darkness sake and with the gross BrucexBarbara thing. Dick Grayson is easily the most mishandled character in the DCAU, but what do ya expect when all his best character development was with the Titans who aseem to be stuck in a shrodinger's Canon state in the DCAU.)
I didn't see a need to make Terry genetically related to Bruce in the first place. But since they did I'm glad they went the Epilogue route. I thoroughly enjoyed that episode
I would have preferred that Terry remained unrelated to Bruce and the plot point was buried. If it has to happen, then Epilogue is the better choice. Catwoman in the DCAU rarely made for a good time.
funguy345 same for penguin
But she was drawn pretty hot in the original Batman TAS on Fox. lol.
Steven Escareno with the blonde hair and all
Here’s the thing about epilogue:
While it did kind of dampen that original message, it resolves what should be a very obvious plot hole:
How in God’s name, do two gingers have not one, but two black-haired boys? There’s no suggestion of adultery on Mrs. McGinnis’ part (the divorce itself is unexplained), and I can’t be the only one to notice that Terry showed similar tendencies to Bruce, even before they met.
I’m happy it was Amanda Waller that fulfilled this plot line, it literally would’ve made zero sense for Selina to do this
Definitely like the Epilogue route. As mentioned it generally makes more sense as cloning and the like isn't Selena's field. And although Jl/JLU didn't exist as a show didn't exist during Batman Beyond. I like that Epilogue intertwines Terry's story with the Justice League show and the actual organization- making things more connected.
It does indeed.
I just wanna see more Batman Beyond
So when he means PITCH BLACK, does he means Riddick was going to be in it. Thus Riddick and the DCAU are now in the same universe. #FiguredItOut #NotReally
Actually pretty glad this movie never got made. Sounds a bit to much like mixing mask of the phantasm and hush beyond. Everything worked out fine in the end though so all's well that ends well
“Maybe he and I got something in common after all”
-Terry
“More than you think son. More than you think”
-Superman
The plot of Terry being closely related to Bruce actually makes a lot of sense after all with two light haired individuals where do you get not one but two kids with black hair I wonder maybe that’s why they split up
in fact, they're specifically redheads
which means they CAN'T have black-haired kids.
@@KairuHakubi people can dye their hair
@@leonevelake yeah but who would CHOOSE to be ginger?
okay, Lucy. that's one.
@@KairuHakubi I mean are not almost all of hollywoods famous redheads dye jobs?
Keep epilogue a secret
I never picked up on the genetics foreshadowing although admittedly I was like 8 or 9 at the time of beyond's airing. I always thought those hints were more pointing to Terry simply becoming more like Bruce personality wise because of the whole "mentor/pupil" relationship.
That being said I think your Inque hint is a bit of a stretch
Cody M yeah it is weird
I had a dream last night where a modify version of this scrapped Plot line was used as the Story in Batman: Beyond Arkham, the sequel to Batman: Arkham apocalypse aka WB Montréal’s project Sabbath. It released in 2022 on the PS5 and Xbox Series S/X. The only detail I remember regarding gameplay was that using Batman’s Jet boots during gliding either gave you a short speed boost akin to ejecting out of the Batmobile in Arkham Knight or straight up turned gilding into driving the Batmobile, with the jet boots acting exactly like the Batmobile’s Jet engine thruster
What about doing videos about cancelled projects(movies,episodes,shows) and scrapped storylines?
Needs more Zeta project!
Honestly looking back on this I'd love to see the idea of Selina raising a son that she sired with Bruce who serves as a dark reflection of Terry explored somewhere; ideally in a hypothetical revival of the show. There's a lot of potential drama there, especially with Bruce, who'd realise that he could've been raising a family this whole time instead of being stuck alone and isolated for over twenty years.
Or use Helena from the comics.
I'm still just dumbfounded by what adult Terry looks in Epilogue?
something about it is....wrong
Let me guess, to much of a Bat-Elvis vibe going on, what with the slicked hair, rockabilly build and big lips?!
The only thing that should be retconned from "Epilogue" should be Terry's look. That 70's thrift store look with the hair, sideburns, and lips is just horrible.
You mean something _finally_ starts looking _right?_
I think this plot would work well as a sequel to a live-action Batman Beyond film, with Keaton & Pfeiffer back in the roles. Pfeiffer's Catwoman seems crazy enough to go through with this plan
Great video! I prefer the way things went in Epilogue, though I would also have liked a movie. The thing is, in the DCAU, Catwoman was never a big player. She was a recurring villain in the BTAS era, but she never got the kind of character development that Amanda Waller did. I'm also not a big fan of the whole 'dark reflection of Batman' archetype.
I would like if batman beyond would get a movie adaptation of 10,000 clowns, since several other batman comics got animated movies, time batman beyond got some.
Okay that would be Awesome, but there's a bit of a problem Dana was never shown to have any siblings.
The movie plot sounds absolutely horrible. Selina being the one to carry all that out sounds completely out of character and ridiculous. I do love when Batman Beyond does connections to past villains though cause the one complaint I have about BB is that it's rogues gallery of foes never resonated with me in the way that the classic Batman ones did. They should have done later seasons that had returning villains.
If they went the whole Catwoman route then Terry McGinnis should’ve just been their grandchild and any other would be clones/descendants being the targets of one that’s gone mad.
Attempting to manipulate himself into being the winner of the Culling of subjects stage for the defunct prototype Beyond project.
Which could lead to sarcastic implied cracks about Bruce’s bedroom skills and contraceptive preparedness being the only area he was lacking in.(when likely a large amount of them probably used fertility drugs to initially baby trap him.)
So which of Terry's Rogues Gallery would've been killed off? Shriek? Mad Stan? Spellbinder? Actually, those last two would've been pretty ironic considering a certain episode they were both in...
Ah yes, I'd read about this planned DTV a little while after Epilogue aired. Hadn’t read that detailed summary from the [Justice League] Watchtower, though, that site is a legend.
And I guess we don't know for sure if it was a deliberate hint, but man, imagine if Superman HAD been in on the secret the whole time. Makes sense, though: even if no one had actually told him, a little X-Ray and microscopic vision would've done the trick
Y'know what's funny? Considering that Bruce and crew did draw some inspiration from Spider-Man to Batman Beyond, they technically almost did the Clone Saga with this cancelled movie lol. Heck, I'd argue they almost did the ORIGINAL 70s Clone Saga
Very true!
I just always assumed that all the family talk had more to do with creating family over actually being one. As for Epilogue, the Terry aspect of it always seemed a little fan-fictiony to me, but it's not completely horrible. I just think it's better storytelling for Terry being his own man over him being genetically inclined to be like Bruce. Terry is a good enough character on his own, and didn't need that.
It was very fanfiction-y, but I can't say I hate it because it was presented in a unique way that leaves you with some things to ponder about. In the long run though, it wasn't something I personally needed to be an element to Terry's character since I thought his origin worked well enough before modifying it.
LMAO i love how you used that Yellow Batsuit for Batman Experiment #2.
I'm not a big fan of the suggested route that they'd use for Selina, but then again I don't really care about Selina in the DCAU that much to begin with. Amanda Waller simply makes much more sense. Really, the only characters from the BTAS era that would've made sense in her place are Joker, whose already dead, and Hugo Strange, but even then that character' DCAU counterpart's way too incompetent to pull off something on that grand a scale convincingly. A part of me wishes that Selina was used in place of the Phantasm in Waller's plan though, even if it was only a cute little reference to their original plans.
Danny Buckle well they didn't give her, penguin and Riddler there true potential
Saw the title of this video and was like, "l guess we're not going to #keepepilogueasecret this episode!"
I think Epilogue makes better sense than the Catwoman proposal. You need someone who's a "science" type for the clone proposal to work (which Catwoman is not, but Project Cadmus *is*).
It was particularly genius to return Andrea Beaumont as the would-be assassin of Terry's parents. No other character would have had the intuition to understand Bruce's trauma, and have it come to the forefront of her conscience at the last minute.
I'm actually totally fine with epilogue it's one of my favorite jlu episodes as well as one of my favorite dcau episodes. I really enjoy that episode still to this day and its ramifications.
I always wanted to see terry take on nightwing on screen. Like have him be forced to help slade wilson and terry and him face off.
Or I want a dc mortal kombat crossover movie where scorpion has to hunt down shinnok in the injustice universe while also taking on the league. Fatality!
3:20 I mean, he does have a point. It would be pretty hard for the audience to see anything if it’s pitch black.
I found all the foreshadowing when rewatching the entire series a couple of years ago. Characters in Batman Beyond kept mentioning how much Terry resembled Bruce with Ra’s al Ghul posing as Talia’s statement being the most prominent of all.
If the show gets sold well on Blu-Ray and gives us a 4th season then maybe they could tell us some stories about what happened to Two-Face, Ridder, and give us a look into Bruce leaving the league after Joker's death and maybe do a Selina storyline that tells us what happened between JLU and BB, but can let us know if Bruce ever did reveal his identity to her
Joseph Vazquez why did he not ask superman to clean up his city before Terry
This sounds a bit too off the wall for DCAU Catwoman. Having her go from an animal activist in BTAS to a thief that just enjoys the thrill of her extralegal activities in TNBA was fine enough, even if DCAU Catwoman was never particularly interesting in either role. But shifting her to "I'm going to clone Bruce Wayne, make him my son, possibly have sex with him, and then have him kill criminals" in Beyond just feels waaaay too insane of a change from what came before.
I think the Selena idea could have been cool, but it wouldn’t make a ton of sense.
The biggest reason being that Selena Kyle never was that popular in the original animated series. They were rarely together and I can’t remember any great stories together.
If Selena had a bigger story in the original series, I think she’d have made a great movie. This didn’t work though. She was overshadowed by Harley, Barbara and even Ivy.
Charles Peralo yeah and I would like the idea of Helena Wayne
WAIT SO IN THE CALL SUPERMAN BEYOND ALREADY KNEW THAT TERRY WAS BRUCE'S SON. WOWOW
LOVE BATMAN BEYOND. Glade you uploaded this! Terry Batman was a character I could relate to in my douchebag days and helped me fix myself up a bit
That story sounds so stupid!
Sounds so similar to Grant Morrison's Batman Inc. Bruce's former love interest (Talia) creating an army of clones of her and Bruce's son, Damian. Even has the evil "muscle" she controls, in The Heretic. Thinking that thru, Talia would have been a better fit than Selina for that Beyond movie. But then that would have screwed up "Out of the Past".
If Bruce being Terry's dad wasn't decided on before the first episode aired, then it's a retcon. I know you guys need clickbait, but I think the video's title should be rephrased as a question to be less misleading.
Anywho, I think Epilogue works overall and prefer it to this Catwoman movie idea. But while I don't hate the Bruce-is-the-father reveal, I don't love it either. To me it comes across as pointless melodrama so Bruce and Terry can have an emotional falling out / reunion for the big finale.
I see the "real" ending as the part near the end where Bruce peters Terry about getting enough to eat to keep up his strength. It's a small moment, but it reassures the audience that despite his aloofness, Bruce does love Terry, and Terry knows that and reciprocates.
And I'm sure Bruce would love Terry as a son regardless of if he was biological or not, same as Bruce loves Dick and Tim (I was gonna say and Barbara too but let's, uh, leave her out of this one.. )
@@mattiesavannahpahl9934 Having a Justice League Beyond isn't a retcon because it was never established that Terry was the only superhero left (at least as far as I remember). If there'd been a line in an early episode about how Superman was dead or something, and then later Supes shows up with the Justice League, then THAT would be a retcon.
The reason the Bruce-is-the-father thing is a retcon is because in the first Beyond episode, all signs indicate that Terry has a father who isn't Bruce, and to assume otherwise due to this crazy specific bizarre series of events is just unreasonable, the same way no one could have reasonably assumed Gwen Stacy slept with Norman Osborn and had his twins. All the quotes and references and stuff in this video give me the impression that the Bruce-father idea may have been around since "the beginning," but it would still be a retcon even if it was decided in episode 2. If you can find a quote saying they were 100% locked in on the idea since *before the pilot episode was even scripted,* then that would change my mind (Also if that was really the case I think there would've been some clear foreshadowing in the pilot, but I don't think the show started dropping hints until later on).
Also, I should say that I don't think retcons are inherently bad. I actually really like Epilogue. A retcon is just a storytelling tool. It's retroactive continuity, meaning something was established already but then the writers changed their mind. I guess you could argue that father-reveals shouldn't be considered retcons, since people in real life can learn they're adopted and that of course doesn't mean reality got retconned (OR DOES IT DUN DUN DUUUUUH?). But I think it's different in storytelling, especially when the father is made such a central figure to the protagonist's motivations. Like, if J. K. Rowling wrote a new Harry Potter book where we learn Snape is actually Harry's real father because the Ministry of Magic magically cloned him or something, that'd obviously be a huge retcon, and if J. K. Rowling said she'd planned it all from the start, I'd personally be extremely skeptical.
Just my opinion though and I know I'm arguing semantics here. I still really enjoyed the video!
its not reocnt dude terty parns don't have black hair proft it was palned
I’ve got to admit that even though I do love Epilogue the plot for the Catwoman movie sounds amazing to me no matter how out of character it is for her, and no matter how similar it is to Mask of the Phantasm and Return of the Joker.
I love the idea of her having her own Bruce Wayne clone that goes around killing famous villains.
Terry should have been Bruce's Maternal Grandson. WIth Mary McGinnies being actual born Helenna Kyle the orginal Huntress though not active obviously and his grandmother being Catwoman.
You made so much of a fuss about it to the point...i cant stop looking at that hair!
I thought it came out of no where but I think it's better that way. It wouldn't of been such a huge reveal if I had picked up on the foreshadowing. That's kinda of the point though you're not suppose to notice that the foreshadowing is even there until after the reveal. If you notice it right away and the reveal isn't a surprise to you then it's not foreshadowing it's just spoilers.
No to any new BB movie unless it's a Live Action version that directly ties into a New Motion Picture DCU! Perhaps after the new Batman movie that's coming out has garnished some success, assuming it does, establishing the former Harry Potter and Twilight star in the titular role, Robert Pattinson, then perhaps we can be treated to a time displaced Batman Beyond visitor within the Batman franchise before he gets his own spinoff movie, wouldn't that be something?
Honestly I just think that though terry is biologically Bruce’s kid, he’s also biologically his original father (the one who died, cannot remember his name unfortunately). So I just think that terry has two fathers and a mother, with his D.N.A. combination of 50% his mother, 25% of mr. McGinnis, and 25% of Bruce Wayne.
To be honest I was the good Bruce figured out the Terry is it genetic sand of his because of the bats suit I like to think he put some sort of DNA lock on it because I don’t think anyone but him and Terry use that suit besides a computer program thing I maybe wrong
I always assumed he was Bruce's son the whole time without even thinking too far into things, and that Bruce knew. There were too many hints and references, not to mention how a complete random would even be in that role to begin with. Either that, or some lame twist that he was the son of Robin (probably Dick) instead.
I think just seeing another Batman Beyond DTV film, period, would've been epic. I loved epilogue as it is, but I think a film set in that particular part of the timeline would've been amazing. You know, a Justice League of the future film.
It still felt like a retcon though. I shouldn’t be expected to know the behind the scenes to forgive what I thought was a dumb plot point. The only good thing about epilogue was getting to revisit Batman Beyond with an even older Terry and Bruce. Aside from that I hated that they written it so Bruce and Terry are related. It’s undermines Terry as an individual character and makes me dislike how Bruce is made to be so flawless that the Batman mantel couldn’t be passed down to someone who isn’t related.
That shirt is rad
Still makes for a sweet ass alternate earth batman beyond story
A Batman Beyond sequel to Return Of The Joker would have been fantastic but the idea of Selina Kyle being the one responsible for Terry Mcginnis being a clone of Bruce Wayne just made no sense and plus she wouldn't have the knowledge or skill to pull off something like that, i'm glad they went with the idea of Amanda Waller coming up with Project Batman Beyond in 'Epilogue which was much more believable and made sense from a story point of view especially as she has the resources and her belief that the world will always need a Batman was a great reason for the whole cloning process.
Terry being the son / clone of Bruce Wayne is shocking but at the same time it's a very cool twist as it's the last thing anyone expect and that's why it worked so well. I'm glad they never went with Catwoman Beyond as a main villain but still would have been awesome to see Selina have a scene or two with Bruce.
It is really interesting to hear what could have been a Beyond sequel but overall i'm happy with the one we got already but it would be nice to have a new animated movie as it's been 19 years since the last one and we're long overdue for another. Hush Beyond perhaps? Or how about Apocalypse of 09?
We need more Batman Beyond. Make it so *in Patrick Stewart voice*
terry is no clone waller said terry ha has son
Personally I always liked the connection that was revealed. It’s a good way to end the universe in Epilogue
The Epilogue version definitely works better, but its a plot point I've never been overly fond of.
As much as I liked the episode and thought it was (initially) a great note to end the DCAU on, Terry having to be Bruce's biological son never sat right with me.
I liked the idea that Terry was some punk kid with potential, who had the right amount of drive and heart to become Batman's successor. It had this Ratatouille-esque theme that anyone from any background can become something great, so long as they have the ambition and resources to do so.
Bruce being his father muddies the waters a bit; it implies you can only be someone like Batman if you're his blood-relative, rather than work to be like him. It makes Terry's life and career as a superhero feel like his inescapable destiny rather than something he worked to achieve; even if Waller does try to sugarcoat it in the episode.
He does avoid what Bruce did, pushing loved ones away.
I liked the original "Epilog" just fine. The Selina Kyle/full clone thing just doesn't do anything for me. I'd rather have the Waller/techno-son version.
Always wondered what would happen if Terry's little brother Matt found out while he was still a kid; probably would start trying to be a new Robin ...
He does become Robin in the recent Rebirth line of Batman Beyond comics!
@@dcauwatchtower Something I might know if I could afford to read comics anymore. I tell you, WD ... MATURITY SUCKS!😝
Watchtower Database so do you have any theory on the penguin's fingers yet?
@@srstriker6420 Maybe toxic waste from Slaughter Swamp?😎
Edwin Stovall ha ha
Fun Fact: In Batman Beyond ''out of the past'' one of the singers is voiced by Adrienne Barbeau,Catwoman's VA in BTAS,TNBA and gg
What do I think - That the "Batwoman" costume from the BTAS movie "Mystery of the Batwoman" was supposed to be "Batgirl Beyond", and that Max was supposed to be "Batgirl Beyond". Also, "Mystery of the Batwoman" is merely a rehash of "Mask of the Phantasm".
Foreshadowing - a mix of both, actually...
Nah, the Batwoman costume was created for this movie. But it definitely has some influences from Beyond! Or, the other way around, in-universe… (we’ve got a video about that, too)
They both have distinctive blue eyes too (and none of Terry's parents do) so yeah, it worked out well overall
Although epilogue has a much cleaner and probably stronger narrative, along with a cleaner backstory for Terry's genetics thanks to Cadmus' previously established cloning tech and Waller's shady dealings, I feel like another Batman Beyond movie would be a lot more valuable in terms of content for that series, since it would be an entire second film rather than a tribute episode.
Actually, I didn't even know about Batman Beyond until he was first introduced in JLU. Eventually, I wound up watching the entire Batman Beyond series on a youtube playlist made by some random guy, it's most likely taken down by now, but I still vividly remember every second of the 3 seasons of Batman Beyond.
The take away that on one wants to talk about from Epilogue is what is also did to connect Batman with his primary origin source and make it a book end to another Batman TAS episode, Beware The Gray Ghost. There is a common idea among fans that the Gray Ghost is based on the Shadow, but three years before Batman was created, another Comic Strip character was created. This character still exists and is still running in the News paper comic strip section (in some places, mostly outside of the U.S.). This character is the Phantom, the Ghost who walks, the Man who cannot die! But when Lee Faulk created this character his original name was "the Gray Ghost, and his outfit was more like that if the Character in the Batman Episode.
Now part of the back story of the Phantom is it is a mantel passed form father to sun, and there have been 22 Phantoms over the years, The 24 had an animated series in the 1990's, and in 2010 the 23 had a mini series on Syfy. But the point is Epilogue added this final piece of the Phantom Story to Batman.
And As per the shirt of the Vidoe's host: All of that could be accomplished is American refused to buy anything make outside the U.S. That is the only way to get "Jobs for all" As we have seen Socialism has not and will not work! And even some of the so called "democratic Socialist nation pointed to by it supporters (most of how have asked that people stop doing such, because they say that are not) use a great deal of protectionism to maintain there tax base and economy! So either way buy American is going to have to happen to have what you want, and if the American people do such on their own, we don't get all the negative of socialism.
Very interesting first two paragraphs!
@@dcauwatchtower Thanks, and well you chose to were the shirt, so I chose to comment on it.
On the point of foreshadowing their relationship, I always thought that Terry's hair (and his brother's hair) was a big giveaway. His father has light brown hair and his mother was a redhead. Terry had black hair like Bruce, which was something I noticed as a kid. Plus, they even had the same eye color. A detail that I think was extra interesting because most characters just have black dots for eyes.
Don’t like the unmade movie idea, never like Bruce being terry’s bio father but I accept it. Those “foreshadowing” scenes seem like a stronger plot point or conflict if terry and Bruce were just found family.
It was “too dark” hell Justice League Apokolips War was darkkkkk!
I mean, the only people who have grey eyes and black hair are Bruce, Terry, and Matt. Terry was also a freakishly good fighter before even meeting Bruce. The writing was on the wall from the first episode.
I mean, fighting skills aren't, like, genetic
epilogue is about as schway as a story gets. Can't say i liked the catwoman pitch.
Your wearing a Bernie sanders shirt!!! ❤️❤️❤️
This sounds more like a Talia al Ghul plot, rather than Selina's. Very close to what Grant Morrison's done with her, including an artificial son of Bruce that serves as her muscle - Heretic. DCOMU has sort of adapted that storyline in "Batman: Bad Blood".
Do a video about why Superman gives up his red and blue costume and goes all black, and what happened to his rogues gallery
Your guess is as good as ours. But we’ll be covering much of that in our webcomic “Legacies of the DCAU”! legaciesdcau.com
Because it's Sunday!
LOL at making the other surviving Bruce clone have the yellow emblem 😅😂
What if they had combined the two versions of the story. Have Selina go to Waller with her idea of continuing the Batman legacy with clones. Amanda has the tech and the power to pull it off. But similarly to the original version none of the other clones become anything special after their parents get murdered. Leading to Cadmus abandoning the project even with the last two still out there. That could be why Terry's parents weren't killed. Because by then they had given up. So Selina takes it upon herself to raise one while Terry goes on to become Batman.
but terry is no clone he is brace son
why bother wearing the t-shirt if you don’t want people to comment on it
Mattie Washburn why bother wearing the t-shirt if you don’t want people to comment on it
Mattie Washburn politics is polarising. why would you invite controversy for no reason?
Mattie Washburn then why not make videos about that instead of “cartoon characters”
*Irony at it's finest.* Adopted Son thinks he found new family after circumstances with his old one only to discover his new family is his original family. I don't think the writer not knowing the truth behind epilogue downolays it at all. In fact it makes the writing 3x better because it doesn't take away that Terry grew up with a different family and it still hits a note in that unknown to Bruce or Terry they had no idea how right they really were. In fact it's so good even the writers created forshadowing for it without ever intending to. That's not a mistake that my friends is REAL LIFE ART.
:51 Out of curiosity Matt, what Numbers did Warner Home Video expect Return of The Joker to make during it's initial release? In other words VHS, DVD Sales and that small theaterical release in Japan.
Terry and his brother have black hair, but his parents do not. Bruce Wayne does.