The Two-Face story from Black & White with the twin sisters was published in the recently released The Batman Adventures Omnibus. Canonicity confirmed?
@@puterboy2 It wasn't tragic in Forever though since Bruce and Harvey were never established as friends in that film and Tommy Lee Jones was ripping off Jack Nicholson's Joker rather than playing Two Face.
@@puterboy2 Show, don't tell. Their friendship wasn't mentioned until the end of the movie. Otherwise, the movie didn't go to any lengths to show Bruce having any kind of close friendship with Harvey. Nor did we actually see Bruce/Batman showing any sort of remorse over what happened to him. It also doesn't help that Harvey wasn't portrayed very sympathetically. He really was just a Joker knock-off, trying to keep up with the manic Riddler.
One thing I don't like about Harvey in the stories is that the writer also write him as a villain and NOT a good and bad guy trap in one body. So everytime two face is a side villain, he ends up being no different to a mob boss who likes fairness. Two face should be a villain where half the time, Harvey is morally conflicted and would try to help batman stop two face. Not two face being an antagonist 100% of his and Harvey's screentime
@@mesiagamer5217 I never thought of it before, the gouges would make it land scratches-up often. On top of that I never really considered but, the numismatists don't specifically try to ensure both sides of a coin weight the same, do they? it's not really on their list... so his double-headed 'cheater' coin representing 'making his own luck' was probably more fair than a normal one. all it would require is a mark on one side...
I mostly agree with you, minus the moral conflict. Guess it's just phrasing. The coin decides so there's no conflict..but basically he's an anti hero, and anti-villain rolled up in one. He's also damn brilliant. Like you said, a bad story has him acting like an average mob when he's insanely good at planning.
I think the question of "how much of Two-Face's body is burnt?" Is always just gonna be one of those things where the design comes first and the logic comes second. I remember playing Arkham City and in Two-Face's audio logs he recounts the classic Two-Face origin of "a mobster in a court room threw a tiny bottle of acid at me." When like, you can see his entire left arm has been completely burned, just as badly as his face. And in concept art, you can see his entire leg has been burned too.
I think Two-Face's appearance is always going to be something you just have to suspend your disbelief over, as the alternative is always too gruesome for young and sensitive fans; even Nolan, the guy obsessed with a realistic Batman, had Dent look like the Terminator because a realistically burned person would've been distracting.
There is a comic that further delves into the judge personality. It ends up with Batman rescuing Harvey after he tries to end his life and telling him that it’s going to get better
Would have been cool if somehow in Harvey's head The Judge somehow kills "Big Bad Harve" and merges with Harvey. Not only would Harvey be cured of his evil personality, but possibly becomes a crime fighter. Naturally, he would agree to Batman's no kill rule. Maybe Grace would even take him back, since she knows for certain his evil side won't return.
@@clintbarke4737 The problem? The Judge is more than just that. He's also jury and, if he had his way, executioner. The Judge is much more willing to kill than even Two-Face is. Two-Face may a vengeful split personality stemming from Harvey's repressed anger (Big Bad Harv) becoming a physically scarred manifestation of Harvey's negative traits, but even he can be swayed by his double-headed coin if it lands on the clean side, which allows Harvey to take over as the dominant personality and seek aid from his longtime friend Bruce Wayne (despite the former DA never uncovering Batman's dual identity), at least until the dark side reasserts control (such as when he literally had his twin henchmen kidnap him from the hospital before he could have the facial reconstruction surgery), whereas The Judge isn't beholden anymore to whatever morality he once held & is intent on basically committing suicide to rid Harvey of his darker impulses....permanently, even if it kills Harvey, too.
I have to admit, I’m more familiar with the Two of.a Kind story than the other one. I think it’s a stronger story, but if it were to come out animated I’d pair it with the Scarecrow story where Jonathan Crane returns to college as a teacher and has to deal with a student who abused his girlfriend.
@@nicholasbarr3862 It's not spectacular, but it comes out okay. A rare point is the relationship between Crane and the girlfriend; the writer could've made it creepy, but it turns out more paternalistic.
'Two of a Kind' is my favorite, since it delves into Harvey Dent's struggles to overcome his split personality only to be pulled apart again by a set of twins who are basically a female version of himself in two separate bodies. It's just appropriate for the character within the BtAS universe. Still, 'Two Timer' might have its place somewhere in continuity as one of Harvey's many false starts on the road to ultimate redemption.
I've always liked "Two-Timer" as the follow-up...because when you look at it, it's "Othello." (Two-Face is Othello, Joker is Iago, Grace is Desdemona, Bruce is Cassio, and Harley is Emilia) So it could get its proper recognition from Shakespearean scholars as well.
Was looking for this comment. Recognized it instantly. And I gotta say, adapting Othello as a Two-Face story is kinda brilliant. (And yeah, OF COURSE Joker is Iago!) It's too bad they never made it into an episode.
“That’s why we can’t do a BTAS complete timeline because of stuff like this!” In fairness to Timm, Dini and the other writers, I don’t think they imaged a group of nerds 20 years later would want to meticulously document all the events of their world in a neat, chronological order and so long as every episode/issue didn’t conflict with anything else in their recent memory, they were good. 😂
What bugged me in the canon storyline was in the last episode of New Batman Adventures, Joker said it was his and Bats' seven year anniversary (the episode where Harley successfully defeated Bats and Joker went psycho--even by his standards). No matter how you parse the timeline, there's no way that's possible
That's that thing! Timm and his crew were a group of nerds creating content for nerds. I gather they knew what they were doing because Batman '89 changed everything and they wanted BTAS to have that same staying power. But as with any cartoon, continuity is always the first victim.
I don't think there's anything incompatible in these stories. The events of "Second Chance" happen. Harvey goes back to Arkham. He makes progress, and they're planning to have his restorative surgery once again. The Joker plays his mind games with Harvey in "Two-Timer," Grace ends her relationship with Harvey, and Harvey goes back into Arkham. Harvey again makes progress, and as he's now a single man once again, he's free to begin a relationship with his plastic surgeon Dr. Marilyn Crane. (Even though a doctor getting romantic with someone she's treating is a really, REALLY bad idea). Harvey has the surgery. He's released from Arkham, and the events of "Two of a Kind" occur. Harvey relapses -- Possibly even worse than before -- and he's now in the condition we see him in for the revamp episodes. (My personal feeling is that after the additional damage he does to his face in "Two of a Kind," Harvey's disfigurement is now beyond the ability of plastic surgery to repair, but that's just my headcanon.) And, when you factor in his last BTAS episode, "Judgment Day," he's now developed an ADDITIONAL personality to contend with. So yeah, despite incremental progress and isolated moments where it looks like he'll make a full physical and mental recovery, Harvey just gets worse and worse over time. One step forward, two steps back. :)
@@dcauwatchtower the only thing I'd change is shift "Two Timer" to taking place before "Second Chance" to explain why Grace wasn't there when Harvey went for his facial surgery. It's such a minor point, but I would imagine that, as his fiancee, she'd want to be there while he was being operated on.
@@SerumLake This is more or less what I thought of while watching the video too. I guess Harvey really likes to _double back_ on any progress he makes.
@@SerumLake "The only thing I'd change is shift 'Two Timer' to taking place before 'Second Chance' to explain why Grace wasn't there when Harvey went for his facial surgery." It's certainly possible. I prefer to keep it simpler, since "Second Chance" aired in September 1994, about a year before "Two-Timer" was published in 1995 (although if Paul Dini pitched it as a DTV movie, he must've come up with the plot at least two years earlier). YMMV. There are any number of reasons why Grace might not be there when Harvey's reconstructive surgery in "Second Chance" is happening. Maybe the operation is happening late at night because Harvey wanted to surprise Grace, or maybe she was too nervous to be there. Either one of those explanations is plausible to me.
I really like the idea of all of these being in the main canon. Harvey is shown with four main love interests in the extended timeline (Ivy, Grace, Marylyn, Madeline). Two of them good, honest people who want Harvey to live his best life; two of them rotten to the core and trying to bring him down (one literally by trying to kill him). Good and bad, double or nothing. Harvey gets involved with Marylyn after Grace moves on with her life, and Grace's prediction that the other guy will always come back is proven right after the coal incident. (Sidenote, if I were writing this story I would have Harvey track down the same chemical substance from the factory, light a match, and pour the flaming substance across half his body. It's much more methodical, disturbing, and unsettling.) Then when he actually gets the cure and moves to LA, it's his second time getting cured, and it finally sticks. Another example of double or nothing. You can even tie in his scenes with Judgement Day and Fatal Five. The encounter with the Judge is the inciting incident that manages to push Harvey back over the edge onto the good side. In Fatal Five he befriends Starboy in Arkham and is shown trying to keep his anger under control. Even Big Bad Harv seems a lot softer. If you want to go really dark with this story, you could say that the Judge killed Big Bad Harv inside their own mind world. This could be an interesting story in and of itself with Harvey having a trial in a fantasy world he creates where he convinces the Judge to shut up and let him take the reins again. That explains how he gets to the point where he's able to move to LA and live his final years in peace.
Well I refuse to see that Toyfare fate as his canonical fate. There is no way he managed to move to LA to become a movie studio lawyer with such a criminal background. Frankly, it's more likely that he never got to be redeemed at all. Poor guy probably died but that's my theory until there's a legitimate story on what really became of Dent and not some Made up piss poor explanation.
@@ETH5626 This is still the same world where Lex Luthor, after all his crimes became public knowledge and was publically one of the League's villain, still became the President of the United States. Becoming an LA lawyer feels easier.
I feel like Two of a Kind could work incredibly well as an episode in the upcoming Batman: Caped Crusader show, as it has the darker tone the show will possibly have
As far as which would be a better animated movie I'd say "Two of a kind" the darker story seems better fit for a movie, as far as canon goes I think it's a little too dark for the DCAU and that "Two Timer" fits better taking place after "Second Chance". "Two Timer" would also have made a great episode in the series.
You should draw a character model for Two-Face based on the Two of a Kind story. Like with burned flesh colors instead of blue skin. Could be a cool alternate timeline design.
Until Ra's Al Ghul, Two-Face was my favorite villain. Still ranks pretty high up there too. I even taught myself how to flip a coin like he does. I don't know how many times I watched him flip his coin. Whenever a coin needs to be flipped, family and friends give it to me. I remember watching Batman Forever for the first time (also one of the few times I was allowed to watch a PG-13 movie when I wasn't 13 was when it was a Batman movie, except my mom would NOT let me see Batman Returns) and being a little ticked off that his coin flipping was "not what it should be." What can I say? I was a kid in elementary school who had a Batman obsession like no one's business. It was silly looking back on it.
Thank you for this video again. I never knew about these awesome Two-Face stories. To answer your question I think I would like to see "Two of A Kind" animated a little more. Happy Twosday!!!
I love that this video was 22:22 and I would like to see two of a kind animated as a more dark story in the dcau and I have been telling people for years how much better this two face is in the dark Knight one and I think from now on I'll just show them this video after the episode Two-Face of course
"Two-Timer" I think better fits since it doesn't involve Two-Face going through with the surgery which will explain why his appearance is more consistent going into the New Adventures. But man I'd love to see a fully Animated "Two of a Kind."
Two Timer would’ve had a real sad ending for Two Face. Grace sees him irredeemable and cuts him off permanently and while I feel that Bruce would’ve forgiven him and tries to reach out, Harvey probably cut him off because he felt so ashamed he hurt his best friend
As much as I love Bruce Timm's Black and White story.. I feel like "Two-Timer" was the one that happened shortly after "Second Chance" because if I'm not mistaken in that issue, Batman realizes his friend Harvey is gone and by the next time we see Batman and Two-Face in TNBA Bats doesn't call him Harvey anymore. He's just Two-Face. Also, I'd LOVE to see Two Timer made into animated form. It deserves more love.
I just think Two of a Kind is a better story. It's more well rounded AND it's more iconic. The "motion comic" is solid, but I'd love to see it get the full treatment.
This would also be in line with the classic themes in btas where villians would be brought to thw light but fall back into their old ways. I would prefer 2 of the kind. But I think if the other was animated in a movie format, there could be a lot of really cool interactions with Bruce and Harvey, and even more of he realized Bruce and Dick were Batman and Robin. It would totally fuel the delusion Bruce wanted Harvey locked up.
I read that brilliant Two-Face story( 2 of a kind) and even though her name isn't 'Grace', I like to think it was...and we just learned of her twin sister! Felt like a perfect 40s drama/soap-opera and I just ate it up! 🍿
two-face's ultimate fate in batman beyond was never explained, but in a deleted scene of the return of the joker, when bruce returned to the abandoned arkham to find clues about the joker's return, there he saw two-face's former cell where half of the padding was torn of the wall, that it gave bruce chills. like it was implied that whatever the ending of two-face's story was wasn't a good ending.
Two Face is my favourite BTAS villain (although Clayface had the biggest impact on me mentally - wasn’t expecting to see THAT scene in this video!!!!) and in my headcanon Two Timer takes place before Second Chance (otherwise Grace would’ve been at the hospital while Harvey was getting his face fixed) and Two of a Kind takes place afterwards. If only one could be animated I’d go with Two of a Kind because it’s a good sad story, and there ain’t much better than Sad Batman™️ stories! I really did enjoy his cameo in Justice League Vs The Fatal Five as well. Poor Harvey, still locked away in Arkham after all those years…
12:40 is such a LAYERED series of jokes in just two seconds lol, I'm DEAD. You guys just get better with every video, I LOVE your channel! Also you're heroes for incorporating twos into every element of this upload, seriously that made this all so much better
A video all about Two-Face uploaded on 2/22/2022 with what I'm sure was an intentional runtime of 22:22. To be honest I was expecting there to be another livestream today, but this is just *TWO* perfect.
Damn, really hope "Two of a kind" gets made into a movie, it would be a worthwhile addition to the series, as well as the darkest entry into the franchise
In the spirit of Two-Face, why not have both get the animation treatment! But in all seriousness, I think that "Two of a Kind" is a unique story about the character that would be an interesting short film, especially with quality voice acting. The scene with the fireplace would be horrific in the best way possible!
Two of a Kind sounds far more interesting overall and I think delving further into Two-Face's psyche and how he truly does want to get better but gets drawn back to his obsession with duality is far more compelling than the relatively more basic story of Two Timer
I was expecting Two of a Kind to have the Dark Knight Returns twist where after he got his face fixed, Harvey’s mentality was so shot that he saw his entire face was scarred. This was just as good if not better
Two of a kind is a WAAAAY more interesting story but I feel like the thematic elements do kinda push it away from being DCAU canon (in so much as canon matters), but of the two I vastly prefer it.
I'm gonna call little kid you "Sweet Baby James", regardless of what your childhood temperament may have been. As for the question, I think I like Two of a Kind a a sequel and the BaRA comics as a midquel between Two-Face and Second Chance since we go a long time not seeing Harvey (noooooo) in the series proper so it helps fill in some holes. Then Two of a Kind is the definitive "Why Harvey is even more villainy in TNBA" connecting story. Sorry, Tim, if Harvey was less good at sex, your Dad may still be alive.
I'd like to see Two of a Kind animated because its much darker for the show and there's a large amount of progression for Two-Face's character in that he loses a 2nd love. No matter what he does he can never be happy. I've always seen Harvey as a fallen hero.
Oh my God... Batman TAS Episode: Fear of Victory has the college football player Brian Rodgers signing on First Draft, football drafting always begins in April. The episode also sees Two Face in his cell, happening after Two-Face Part. 2; and Poison Ivy in her cell, making this happen before her rehabilitation is complete. This episode HAS to take place in April of 1995. Just... throwing this out here...
Glad to see Harvey and Grace’s story got some form of a conclusion. It always bothered me that she never shows up or is brought up in the show after the two part origin episode.
I always assumed that after The Judge personality asserted itself, Harvey Dent was further buried beneath him and Big Bad Harv. Poor guy probably rotted into a catatonic state in the new Arkham Asylum Comish Barb mentioned in Return of the Joker.
'Two Timer' is like a classic good BTAS episode, it follows the structure and it would have been great as that, but it definitely would have needed a bit more polish to make it into a movie. 'Two of a Kind', in the other hand, it's one of my favorite Batman comics of all time, every read feels like that first time I got my hands on it back when I was a kid, possibly the most Two-Face story there is besides the ones that tell his origin. So I gotta say my bias points towards 'Two of a Kind' as the better story, the motion comic is excellent, but one of my dreams has always been to see this story adapted into a movie somehow.
The first story is fantastic and fantastically dark. I honestly consider it canon to the DCAU because let’s be real, the show did heavily imply a lot of the darker stuff. But couldn’t really show it because, you know, kids stuff.
Two of a Kind definitely feels like a more compelling Two-Face story to me so we’ll go with that one. But that’s mostly cause we focus more on Two-Face and Harvey than Batman
Two-face is easily Batman‘s second most iconic villain. Half of the Batman’s end base legitimately feels this way the other half just really likes to keep in with the theme of the number two. myself? I’m a little half-and-half on the subject.
Imagining the comic is canon leads to the fun conclusion that two-face missed bieng propperly split in two, and either had MORE surgery, to re-two-face-afy him, or just started wearing blue makeup, feeling it was a return to his original look. When I was a kid I started writing a big fan-fic verse where many of the rogues gallery gained their identities in similar ways. Funded by Penguin, a chemical company was working on synthesizing something from Ra's al Ghul magic water. but instead of returning people to life, it just horribly scarred them, and had deleterious effects on the mind. A crude version is what the joker was dumped into. He ended up getting two-face with it, but only on half the body. A more refined version was what bane was injecting himself with. and other experiments with it, are what turned the research team consisting of botanist poison Ivy, experimenting with plants, and the a crew of therapists including harley quinn. Illegal chemical dumping gave us Solomon Grundy. I feel like there were more, but I can't remember them fully now. I enjoyed the version of two-face I was writing. He wanted to become the criminal kingpin of gothom city because if he was in charge of crime, he could control and restrict it, still wanting to fill the role he thought he failed to as DA, but in inversion.
I'd like to see an adaptation merging the 2. Both seem a bit light on plot for a movie, but if you tied in a reconstructive surgery into the Grace story, and had him leave her for the M sister during, I think you could make a good Dini/Timm merger
Where’s what I could think of it in a chronological order “second chance”, “Two timer”, then “two of a kind”. Or two timer, second chance, two of a kind. All could be in continuity for Harvey’s story.
Great video. I became aware of "Two of A Kind" a few years ago through the motion comic, and enjoyed it. I hadn't been aware of "Two Timer", but definitely plan to read it. Of the two, I'd probably rather see "Two Timer" made into an animated movie.
"Two-Timer" is definitely my favorite, and I think one of the best stories Paul Dini wrote for the Adventures comics. That one's always gonna be headcanon for me!
I have never heard of Two of a Kind, but I really like it. It is incredibly depressing and tragic, but the noir aspect is brilliant! I couldn’t help imagining Marilyn and Madeline being played by Bette Davis.
One last thing, the bit at the end about Two-Face's Batman Beyond whereabouts, not that these are canon, but the Earth-12 comics (during the "Batgirl Beyond" arc) concur with Dini's comments that Harvey was eventually rehabilitated. Just throwing that out there!
I know it's mainly for money reasons why DC never gives some of Batman's villains a redemption that sticks permanently or gives them a happy ending in life. But where characters like Harley, Ivy, Clayface, Freeze, Croc and yes, ESPECIALLY Two-Face are concerned...they DESERVE to be happy, after how much life screwed them over. But no; DC will never cure Harvey of his MPD (Multiple Personality Disorder,) DC will never save Mr. Freeze or cure his wife, DC will never help Harley sever her ties with Joker and DC will forever leave the likes of Ivy, Croc and Clayface to be hated by the world. All for the sake of green paper in their pockets
I find it funny how Two-Face, the character all about split decisions, has two comics that is up to choice whether one is canon or not. I say we flip a coin to find out 😂
Harvey is honestly imo the most personal Batman villain for Bruce. Joker might be Batman's ultimate, but Harvey and Bruce's friendship works so well as a storyline that it's really easy to see why people will always name him in their top 10 or 5 Batman villains.
Thanks for the video! Of the these stories, I think I prefer Two of a Kind due to it's more twisted and darker nature. Seeing Harvey giving in and rescarring himself is pretty horrifying. I do have some questions regarding Two-Face's DCAU design though. 1 Why were Two-Face's scarred portions of his body colored blue? Red would be a more logical color. I've theorized that the decision to go with blue scarring could have been the people behind BTAS preemptively censoring themselves since going with a red color would have been too realistic and thus too gruesome due to the censorship they were under, and more realistic body disfigurement would be pushing the envelope too much. 2 Has there ever been an explanation as to why his redesign in TNBA was not as radical as other characters' designs? They were under less censorship at this time, but Two-Face's disfigured portion of his body was still colored blue. It makes me think a red design was still considered too much, or maybe the crew just liked his old BTAS design and decided to not change it too much.
Not that we know of! Probably just didn’t require much of a design change into the new art style. I’ve never thought about the blue being a censorship thing, but possibly!
"...Or maybe the crew just liked his old BTAS design and decided to not change it too much." Yep, I'd say that this was all it was. But if you look at both of the Two-Face designs side by side, they're more different than you might expect at first glance. They definitely went tighter, more angular, and sleeker with it. Same thing with Harley Quinn.
I've always liked the degradation of Two-Face in "The Dark Knight Returns", when Batman's internal monologue about Dent's current hideout observes that it's partly dirty and partly cleaned, "But the division is no longer even. It favors the dirty."
TBH Dinni's Two Timer helps make Timm's Two Of A Kind make sense; I've never read either but my IMMEDIATE question when you described Two Of A Kind was "what happened to Grace?" and when you slot Two Timer in it answers that question perfectly. Two Timer seems like it works regardless so between the two that one makes more sense to keep but if it's there then Two Of A Kind now works.
Regarding Dents actuall fate in the DCAU: I've read somewhere that Dent was supposed to become one of the victims of the villain from the canned second Batman Beyond movie besides Riddler and the Mad hatter. Don't know how true this is (and I cannot find the source of this anymore), but it would explain why he never was brought up in Beyond. They might've wanted to not show him until then to surprise longtime viewers.
Mostly it was because they were purposely not bringing in old Batman foes, besides Mr. Freeze and eventually Joker (but only because they developed great stories/reasons to use them). But I could see that being the case, a victim of the “Anti-Batman” could’ve been pretty cool!
@@dcauwatchtower well Writer Stan Berkowitz originally had plans to bring back Killer Croc for the Batman Beyond show, as reptiles have long-life spans, implying that Croc could still be active after 50 years, but the idea was dropped.
I’m kind of surprised you didn’t mention the Batman animated series’ finale. It was called “judgement day”. There was a third personality in Harvey Dent called the judge. I wonder where that would’ve fell?
That’s because that’s the finale to “The New Batman Adventures” (the sequel series to BTAS)! This video was covering the time between the two series. But, as far as the Judge goes, Harvey seems to be doing much better by “Justice League vs the Fatal Five”!
@@dcauwatchtower but you’re describing what happened to two-face in the video, you bring up comics and other possible continuations of his character, but you leave out another possible personality? Harvey having another personality in his mind was a cool concept.
Great video, as always you guys! Coincidentally enough, I was recently thinking of the debut issues of "Batman & Robin Adventures". (BTW that run won 3 Eisners consecutively) Given that this thear is the 30th annyversary of BTAS (HOLY SHIT YOU GUYS, WE ARE OLD!!!!!) I emailded DC a few day ago in order to pitch them an idea that I had about doing a celebratory TPB, in the same vein as those that they do like ""Green Arrow: 80 Years of the Emerald Archer", " The Joker: 80 Years of the Clown Prince of Crime", and many others. The idea would be highligting the very best single issues of all 4 BTAS comic books tie-ins volumes My personal selection for this compilatory book would be something like this: Batman Adventures Vol 1 6 (1993) Batman Adventures Vol 1 13 (1993) Batman Adventures Vol 1 15 (1993) Batman Adventures Vol 1 16 (1994) Batman Adventures Vol 1 27 (1994) Batman Adventures Vol 1 33 (1995) The Batman and Robin Adventures Anual 1 (1995) The Batman and Robin Adventures 1 (1995) The Batman and Robin Adventures 2 (1995) The Batman and Robin Adventures 6 (1996) Gotham Adventures 10 (1999) Gotham Adventures 26 (2000) Gotham Adventures 37 (2001) Batman Adventures Vol 2 17 (2004) I calculated that it would be something like 350 pages, so its pefectly doable If possible, I would also add both of BTAS related Black & White stories, "Two of a Kind" (the one mentioned on this video) and "The Bet" written by Paul Dini, art by Ronnie Del Carmen Dindt get an answer by DC though, what about if we all e-mail bomb them?😏 DCPress@dcentertainment.com dcsubs@midtowncomics.com
I remember back in the good ol' days of Wii and stuff when I got the Lego Batman the videogame either for birthday or Christmas and absolutely fell in love with it. And of all the characters featured in it I absolutely loved Two-face but that was mostly because of his cool black and white suit and dual revolvers
I prefer Two-Timer for bringing back Grace & closing off her relationship with Harvey, along with more focus on Bruce & Harvey's dynamic & the Joker manipulating events for his sick entertainment.
Obviously Joker is Batman's greatest adversary...but 2Face has always been my favorite rouge. ...I still want to see him done well, as a lead villain, in a motion picture
To answer QOTD, I'd probably be interested in seeing the Batman & Robin Adventures two-parter adapted to animation, especially now that I know that it was one of their original movie ideas before Phantasm.
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So Harvey apparently had Three fiancées and was in an affair with his latest fiancé's sister.
The Two-Face story from Black & White with the twin sisters was published in the recently released The Batman Adventures Omnibus. Canonicity confirmed?
The scene of Harvey losing his coin and freaking out because of it still gets to me to this very day.
Especially "I HAVE TO HAVE IT."
Batman Forever handled it with a far tragic result: Batman had to kill his friend.
@@puterboy2 It wasn't tragic in Forever though since Bruce and Harvey were never established as friends in that film and Tommy Lee Jones was ripping off Jack Nicholson's Joker rather than playing Two Face.
@@Xehanort10 But he did say “you’ve always been a good friend,” before flipping the coin.
@@puterboy2 Show, don't tell. Their friendship wasn't mentioned until the end of the movie. Otherwise, the movie didn't go to any lengths to show Bruce having any kind of close friendship with Harvey. Nor did we actually see Bruce/Batman showing any sort of remorse over what happened to him. It also doesn't help that Harvey wasn't portrayed very sympathetically. He really was just a Joker knock-off, trying to keep up with the manic Riddler.
One thing I don't like about Harvey in the stories is that the writer also write him as a villain and NOT a good and bad guy trap in one body. So everytime two face is a side villain, he ends up being no different to a mob boss who likes fairness.
Two face should be a villain where half the time, Harvey is morally conflicted and would try to help batman stop two face. Not two face being an antagonist 100% of his and Harvey's screentime
and in fairness, batman is all ABOUT villains who self-sabotage.
Let's not forget the coin isn't a fifty fifty due to the scratch marks.
@@mesiagamer5217 I never thought of it before, the gouges would make it land scratches-up often.
On top of that I never really considered but, the numismatists don't specifically try to ensure both sides of a coin weight the same, do they? it's not really on their list... so his double-headed 'cheater' coin representing 'making his own luck' was probably more fair than a normal one. all it would require is a mark on one side...
I mostly agree with you, minus the moral conflict. Guess it's just phrasing. The coin decides so there's no conflict..but basically he's an anti hero, and anti-villain rolled up in one.
He's also damn brilliant.
Like you said, a bad story has him acting like an average mob when he's insanely good at planning.
Strongly agreed, that's something that even this series failed to deliver
I think the question of "how much of Two-Face's body is burnt?" Is always just gonna be one of those things where the design comes first and the logic comes second. I remember playing Arkham City and in Two-Face's audio logs he recounts the classic Two-Face origin of "a mobster in a court room threw a tiny bottle of acid at me."
When like, you can see his entire left arm has been completely burned, just as badly as his face. And in concept art, you can see his entire leg has been burned too.
Maybe there is an off camera event where after Harvey gets acid burned in court, he takes steps to make the rest of his body match the original burns.
@@ChrisConnolly-Mr.C-Dives-In that would be an awesome dark story, it could show him burning the rest of his body after the acid attack
I think Two-Face's appearance is always going to be something you just have to suspend your disbelief over, as the alternative is always too gruesome for young and sensitive fans; even Nolan, the guy obsessed with a realistic Batman, had Dent look like the Terminator because a realistically burned person would've been distracting.
@@slykilla1593 thanks man. Yeah that would be really dark, maybe darker than dark deco.
It was *really* strong acid
What would have been interesting is further exploration of Harvey's THIRD personality, The Judge.
There is a comic that further delves into the judge personality. It ends up with Batman rescuing Harvey after he tries to end his life and telling him that it’s going to get better
The title is Gotham adventures 12 for anyone interested. You learn some interesting tidbits about Dent, like he is a Air Force veteran for example
Would have been cool if somehow in Harvey's head The Judge somehow kills "Big Bad Harve" and merges with Harvey. Not only would Harvey be cured of his evil personality, but possibly becomes a crime fighter. Naturally, he would agree to Batman's no kill rule. Maybe Grace would even take him back, since she knows for certain his evil side won't return.
@@clintbarke4737 The problem? The Judge is more than just that. He's also jury and, if he had his way, executioner. The Judge is much more willing to kill than even Two-Face is. Two-Face may a vengeful split personality stemming from Harvey's repressed anger (Big Bad Harv) becoming a physically scarred manifestation of Harvey's negative traits, but even he can be swayed by his double-headed coin if it lands on the clean side, which allows Harvey to take over as the dominant personality and seek aid from his longtime friend Bruce Wayne (despite the former DA never uncovering Batman's dual identity), at least until the dark side reasserts control (such as when he literally had his twin henchmen kidnap him from the hospital before he could have the facial reconstruction surgery), whereas The Judge isn't beholden anymore to whatever morality he once held & is intent on basically committing suicide to rid Harvey of his darker impulses....permanently, even if it kills Harvey, too.
It’s giving Id, Ego and Super Ego
I have to admit, I’m more familiar with the Two of.a Kind story than the other one. I think it’s a stronger story, but if it were to come out animated I’d pair it with the Scarecrow story where Jonathan Crane returns to college as a teacher and has to deal with a student who abused his girlfriend.
Never heard of the Scarecrow one. Is it any good?
@@nicholasbarr3862 It's not spectacular, but it comes out okay. A rare point is the relationship between Crane and the girlfriend; the writer could've made it creepy, but it turns out more paternalistic.
What’s the story called?
@@eastonenroth2366 "Study Hall" from The Batman Animated Adventures
'Two of a Kind' is my favorite, since it delves into Harvey Dent's struggles to overcome his split personality only to be pulled apart again by a set of twins who are basically a female version of himself in two separate bodies. It's just appropriate for the character within the BtAS universe. Still, 'Two Timer' might have its place somewhere in continuity as one of Harvey's many false starts on the road to ultimate redemption.
Why not both?
I've always liked "Two-Timer" as the follow-up...because when you look at it, it's "Othello." (Two-Face is Othello, Joker is Iago, Grace is Desdemona, Bruce is Cassio, and Harley is Emilia)
So it could get its proper recognition from Shakespearean scholars as well.
Was looking for this comment. Recognized it instantly. And I gotta say, adapting Othello as a Two-Face story is kinda brilliant. (And yeah, OF COURSE Joker is Iago!) It's too bad they never made it into an episode.
“That’s why we can’t do a BTAS complete timeline because of stuff like this!”
In fairness to Timm, Dini and the other writers, I don’t think they imaged a group of nerds 20 years later would want to meticulously document all the events of their world in a neat, chronological order and so long as every episode/issue didn’t conflict with anything else in their recent memory, they were good. 😂
You’re absolutely correct. But we’re tryin’!
@@dcauwatchtower And we wouldn’t have it any other way. 🥰
My ocd goes crazy because of this.
I'm not a nerd just a huge fan who hates things not being organized
What bugged me in the canon storyline was in the last episode of New Batman Adventures, Joker said it was his and Bats' seven year anniversary (the episode where Harley successfully defeated Bats and Joker went psycho--even by his standards).
No matter how you parse the timeline, there's no way that's possible
That's that thing! Timm and his crew were a group of nerds creating content for nerds. I gather they knew what they were doing because Batman '89 changed everything and they wanted BTAS to have that same staying power. But as with any cartoon, continuity is always the first victim.
I've always loved how Victor Freeze's voice actor sounded like, like a distant muffled voice.
I don't think there's anything incompatible in these stories.
The events of "Second Chance" happen. Harvey goes back to Arkham. He makes progress, and they're planning to have his restorative surgery once again.
The Joker plays his mind games with Harvey in "Two-Timer," Grace ends her relationship with Harvey, and Harvey goes back into Arkham. Harvey again makes progress, and as he's now a single man once again, he's free to begin a relationship with his plastic surgeon Dr. Marilyn Crane. (Even though a doctor getting romantic with someone she's treating is a really, REALLY bad idea).
Harvey has the surgery. He's released from Arkham, and the events of "Two of a Kind" occur. Harvey relapses -- Possibly even worse than before -- and he's now in the condition we see him in for the revamp episodes. (My personal feeling is that after the additional damage he does to his face in "Two of a Kind," Harvey's disfigurement is now beyond the ability of plastic surgery to repair, but that's just my headcanon.) And, when you factor in his last BTAS episode, "Judgment Day," he's now developed an ADDITIONAL personality to contend with.
So yeah, despite incremental progress and isolated moments where it looks like he'll make a full physical and mental recovery, Harvey just gets worse and worse over time. One step forward, two steps back. :)
I think that works very well!
@@dcauwatchtower the only thing I'd change is shift "Two Timer" to taking place before "Second Chance" to explain why Grace wasn't there when Harvey went for his facial surgery. It's such a minor point, but I would imagine that, as his fiancee, she'd want to be there while he was being operated on.
Well, this goes into my headcanon from now on for sure. Thank you!
@@SerumLake This is more or less what I thought of while watching the video too. I guess Harvey really likes to _double back_ on any progress he makes.
@@SerumLake "The only thing I'd change is shift 'Two Timer' to taking place before 'Second Chance' to explain why Grace wasn't there when Harvey went for his facial surgery."
It's certainly possible. I prefer to keep it simpler, since "Second Chance" aired in September 1994, about a year before "Two-Timer" was published in 1995 (although if Paul Dini pitched it as a DTV movie, he must've come up with the plot at least two years earlier). YMMV.
There are any number of reasons why Grace might not be there when Harvey's reconstructive surgery in "Second Chance" is happening. Maybe the operation is happening late at night because Harvey wanted to surprise Grace, or maybe she was too nervous to be there. Either one of those explanations is plausible to me.
I really like the idea of all of these being in the main canon. Harvey is shown with four main love interests in the extended timeline (Ivy, Grace, Marylyn, Madeline). Two of them good, honest people who want Harvey to live his best life; two of them rotten to the core and trying to bring him down (one literally by trying to kill him). Good and bad, double or nothing.
Harvey gets involved with Marylyn after Grace moves on with her life, and Grace's prediction that the other guy will always come back is proven right after the coal incident. (Sidenote, if I were writing this story I would have Harvey track down the same chemical substance from the factory, light a match, and pour the flaming substance across half his body. It's much more methodical, disturbing, and unsettling.) Then when he actually gets the cure and moves to LA, it's his second time getting cured, and it finally sticks. Another example of double or nothing.
You can even tie in his scenes with Judgement Day and Fatal Five. The encounter with the Judge is the inciting incident that manages to push Harvey back over the edge onto the good side. In Fatal Five he befriends Starboy in Arkham and is shown trying to keep his anger under control. Even Big Bad Harv seems a lot softer. If you want to go really dark with this story, you could say that the Judge killed Big Bad Harv inside their own mind world. This could be an interesting story in and of itself with Harvey having a trial in a fantasy world he creates where he convinces the Judge to shut up and let him take the reins again. That explains how he gets to the point where he's able to move to LA and live his final years in peace.
Well I refuse to see that Toyfare fate as his canonical fate. There is no way he managed to move to LA to become a movie studio lawyer with such a criminal background. Frankly, it's more likely that he never got to be redeemed at all. Poor guy probably died but that's my theory until there's a legitimate story on what really became of Dent and not some Made up piss poor explanation.
@@ETH5626it’s LA they don’t care
@@ETH5626 This is still the same world where Lex Luthor, after all his crimes became public knowledge and was publically one of the League's villain, still became the President of the United States. Becoming an LA lawyer feels easier.
I feel like Two of a Kind could work incredibly well as an episode in the upcoming Batman: Caped Crusader show, as it has the darker tone the show will possibly have
Well... 😬
Oof
As far as which would be a better animated movie I'd say "Two of a kind" the darker story seems better fit for a movie, as far as canon goes I think it's a little too dark for the DCAU and that "Two Timer" fits better taking place after "Second Chance". "Two Timer" would also have made a great episode in the series.
You should draw a character model for Two-Face based on the Two of a Kind story. Like with burned flesh colors instead of blue skin. Could be a cool alternate timeline design.
Two-Face is one of my favorite Batman villains. I binged all of his episodes today. Thanks for this video!
How many times have you heard big bad Harv
@@xmclovn1114 A lot. LOL.
Until Ra's Al Ghul, Two-Face was my favorite villain. Still ranks pretty high up there too. I even taught myself how to flip a coin like he does. I don't know how many times I watched him flip his coin. Whenever a coin needs to be flipped, family and friends give it to me. I remember watching Batman Forever for the first time (also one of the few times I was allowed to watch a PG-13 movie when I wasn't 13 was when it was a Batman movie, except my mom would NOT let me see Batman Returns) and being a little ticked off that his coin flipping was "not what it should be." What can I say? I was a kid in elementary school who had a Batman obsession like no one's business. It was silly looking back on it.
It’s sad he didn’t have more episodes as the main villain. He always seemed to have to share the spotlight with another villain in his episodes.
@@jeremykrause153 You could say he was always number 2/playing 2nd fiddle to someone else.
Thank you for this video again. I never knew about these awesome Two-Face stories. To answer your question I think I would like to see "Two of A Kind" animated a little more. Happy Twosday!!!
I love that this video was 22:22 and I would like to see two of a kind animated as a more dark story in the dcau and I have been telling people for years how much better this two face is in the dark Knight one and I think from now on I'll just show them this video after the episode Two-Face of course
I was wondering when someone was going to mention that
Ya the Dark knight completely messed up Harvey's character
"Two-Timer" I think better fits since it doesn't involve Two-Face going through with the surgery which will explain why his appearance is more consistent going into the New Adventures. But man I'd love to see a fully Animated "Two of a Kind."
Honestly the “Two-Timer” series is better because it gives closure to Grace’s character
Two Timer would’ve had a real sad ending for Two Face. Grace sees him irredeemable and cuts him off permanently and while I feel that Bruce would’ve forgiven him and tries to reach out, Harvey probably cut him off because he felt so ashamed he hurt his best friend
As much as I love Bruce Timm's Black and White story.. I feel like "Two-Timer" was the one that happened shortly after "Second Chance" because if I'm not mistaken in that issue, Batman realizes his friend Harvey is gone and by the next time we see Batman and Two-Face in TNBA Bats doesn't call him Harvey anymore. He's just Two-Face. Also, I'd LOVE to see Two Timer made into animated form. It deserves more love.
I just think Two of a Kind is a better story. It's more well rounded AND it's more iconic. The "motion comic" is solid, but I'd love to see it get the full treatment.
This would also be in line with the classic themes in btas where villians would be brought to thw light but fall back into their old ways. I would prefer 2 of the kind. But I think if the other was animated in a movie format, there could be a lot of really cool interactions with Bruce and Harvey, and even more of he realized Bruce and Dick were Batman and Robin. It would totally fuel the delusion Bruce wanted Harvey locked up.
You know you're a BtAS fan when you think of the same "Harvey.... Nooooo" joke at the same time at 11:30.
I read that brilliant Two-Face story( 2 of a kind) and even though her name isn't 'Grace', I like to think it was...and we just learned of her twin sister! Felt like a perfect 40s drama/soap-opera and I just ate it up! 🍿
two-face's ultimate fate in batman beyond was never explained, but in a deleted scene of the return of the joker, when bruce returned to the abandoned arkham to find clues about the joker's return, there he saw two-face's former cell where half of the padding was torn of the wall, that it gave bruce chills. like it was implied that whatever the ending of two-face's story was wasn't a good ending.
Two-Timer I think would be such a fun episode too watch. It slides a lot better into the actual show, at least in my opinion.
Looks like the TWO face movie was TOO long TO be turned inTO a movie.
12:04 I remember reading this comic. I appreciated the very rare moment of vulnerability that the joker had about “no one ever visiting him”.
Two Face is my favourite BTAS villain (although Clayface had the biggest impact on me mentally - wasn’t expecting to see THAT scene in this video!!!!) and in my headcanon Two Timer takes place before Second Chance (otherwise Grace would’ve been at the hospital while Harvey was getting his face fixed) and Two of a Kind takes place afterwards. If only one could be animated I’d go with Two of a Kind because it’s a good sad story, and there ain’t much better than Sad Batman™️ stories!
I really did enjoy his cameo in Justice League Vs The Fatal Five as well. Poor Harvey, still locked away in Arkham after all those years…
12:40 is such a LAYERED series of jokes in just two seconds lol, I'm DEAD. You guys just get better with every video, I LOVE your channel! Also you're heroes for incorporating twos into every element of this upload, seriously that made this all so much better
A video all about Two-Face uploaded on 2/22/2022 with what I'm sure was an intentional runtime of 22:22.
To be honest I was expecting there to be another livestream today, but this is just *TWO* perfect.
I TWOk the day off from streaming!
@@Ted-Kendrick No problem. I'll look forward to joining the next one.
it was also uploaded on a TUEsday as well
Damn, really hope "Two of a kind" gets made into a movie, it would be a worthwhile addition to the series, as well as the darkest entry into the franchise
In the spirit of Two-Face, why not have both get the animation treatment! But in all seriousness, I think that "Two of a Kind" is a unique story about the character that would be an interesting short film, especially with quality voice acting. The scene with the fireplace would be horrific in the best way possible!
That "Harvey Nooo" gag had me in stitches!!
Two of a Kind sounds far more interesting overall and I think delving further into Two-Face's psyche and how he truly does want to get better but gets drawn back to his obsession with duality is far more compelling than the relatively more basic story of Two Timer
The one with Grace fits better since it includes more of the preexisting character.
Two of a Kind sounds like a much more interesting story, not to mention far more fitting of the tragic nature of Two Face's life.
Well, makes sense since Beyond only had some of the TAS villains: Bane, Harley, "Joker", Ra's Al Ghul.
I was expecting Two of a Kind to have the Dark Knight Returns twist where after he got his face fixed, Harvey’s mentality was so shot that he saw his entire face was scarred. This was just as good if not better
Two of a kind is a WAAAAY more interesting story but I feel like the thematic elements do kinda push it away from being DCAU canon (in so much as canon matters), but of the two I vastly prefer it.
2 face is the second best Batman villain
Clayface is the first?
@ no the joker is the first
They turn killer croc's corpse into a museum exhibit? That is SO FUCKED UP
I'm gonna call little kid you "Sweet Baby James", regardless of what your childhood temperament may have been.
As for the question, I think I like Two of a Kind a a sequel and the BaRA comics as a midquel between Two-Face and Second Chance since we go a long time not seeing Harvey (noooooo) in the series proper so it helps fill in some holes. Then Two of a Kind is the definitive "Why Harvey is even more villainy in TNBA" connecting story. Sorry, Tim, if Harvey was less good at sex, your Dad may still be alive.
For the record, yes. I do think his “uhhhh… never mind” is split down the middle.
I'd like to see Two of a Kind animated because its much darker for the show and there's a large amount of progression for Two-Face's character in that he loses a 2nd love. No matter what he does he can never be happy. I've always seen Harvey as a fallen hero.
I’m here watching this, TWO years after it came out, definitely a reference
11:32 why did this whisper scream kill me?😂😂😂
batman represents: very shady guy who waits in ally ways and fight the bad
two face represents: when you cant draw the other eye or face
They always say, "What happened to Two-Face?" but never "How is happened to Two Face?" because that would be weird
Look out for our Poison Ivy video in the coming months… 👀
Oh my God...
Batman TAS Episode: Fear of Victory has the college football player Brian Rodgers signing on First Draft, football drafting always begins in April.
The episode also sees Two Face in his cell, happening after Two-Face Part. 2; and Poison Ivy in her cell, making this happen before her rehabilitation is complete.
This episode HAS to take place in April of 1995. Just... throwing this out here...
Honestly,it works out well for Harvey to have TWO potential cannons if you think bout it XS
*XD
Joker: Because it’s Tuesday.
Me: I thought he’d say because it’s funny.
Glad to see Harvey and Grace’s story got some form of a conclusion. It always bothered me that she never shows up or is brought up in the show after the two part origin episode.
I always assumed that after The Judge personality asserted itself, Harvey Dent was further buried beneath him and Big Bad Harv. Poor guy probably rotted into a catatonic state in the new Arkham Asylum Comish Barb mentioned in Return of the Joker.
Except that that's the very same new Arkham we see in "Justice League vs The Fatal Five"!
'Two Timer' is like a classic good BTAS episode, it follows the structure and it would have been great as that, but it definitely would have needed a bit more polish to make it into a movie. 'Two of a Kind', in the other hand, it's one of my favorite Batman comics of all time, every read feels like that first time I got my hands on it back when I was a kid, possibly the most Two-Face story there is besides the ones that tell his origin. So I gotta say my bias points towards 'Two of a Kind' as the better story, the motion comic is excellent, but one of my dreams has always been to see this story adapted into a movie somehow.
I mean, that explains Two-Face devloped the third person of The Judge... Some part of him felt guilty for the events of these comics...
The first story is fantastic and fantastically dark. I honestly consider it canon to the DCAU because let’s be real, the show did heavily imply a lot of the darker stuff. But couldn’t really show it because, you know, kids stuff.
I loved TBAS for the fact Bruce was finding his villains treatments and trying to help them physically and mentally. With his alter ego at that.
I love that Joker did it just to fuck with him, lol.
It's what he does. Anything for a joke.
(Patron saint of internet trolls, after all. Pretty familiar grin he has, eh?)
I used to punish my throat mimicking how Two Face says “Grace”.
Two of a Kind definitely feels like a more compelling Two-Face story to me so we’ll go with that one. But that’s mostly cause we focus more on Two-Face and Harvey than Batman
I'm sure it's been acknowledged already, so I just want to emphasize the appreciation that you made the video 22 minutes and 22 seconds long.
It was also posted at 2:22 on 2/22/22 🫡
That Killer Croc fact was actually really disturbing, I can't believe you just skipped over that.
Two-face is easily Batman‘s second most iconic villain. Half of the Batman’s end base legitimately feels this way the other half just really likes to keep in with the theme of the number two. myself? I’m a little half-and-half on the subject.
ok but Harvey Dent, can we trust him?
"Why he still look like that?" made me laugh way too hard!
I feel vindicated that I'm not the only person who calls it "Beatass."
Imagining the comic is canon leads to the fun conclusion that two-face missed bieng propperly split in two, and either had MORE surgery, to re-two-face-afy him, or just started wearing blue makeup, feeling it was a return to his original look.
When I was a kid I started writing a big fan-fic verse where many of the rogues gallery gained their identities in similar ways. Funded by Penguin, a chemical company was working on synthesizing something from Ra's al Ghul magic water. but instead of returning people to life, it just horribly scarred them, and had deleterious effects on the mind. A crude version is what the joker was dumped into. He ended up getting two-face with it, but only on half the body. A more refined version was what bane was injecting himself with. and other experiments with it, are what turned the research team consisting of botanist poison Ivy, experimenting with plants, and the a crew of therapists including harley quinn. Illegal chemical dumping gave us Solomon Grundy. I feel like there were more, but I can't remember them fully now. I enjoyed the version of two-face I was writing. He wanted to become the criminal kingpin of gothom city because if he was in charge of crime, he could control and restrict it, still wanting to fill the role he thought he failed to as DA, but in inversion.
I'd like to see an adaptation merging the 2. Both seem a bit light on plot for a movie, but if you tied in a reconstructive surgery into the Grace story, and had him leave her for the M sister during, I think you could make a good Dini/Timm merger
Two of a Kind, read it almost 2 decades ago (I'm in my 30's) and never forgot it.
I KNEW you were going to talk about that story.
Where’s what I could think of it in a chronological order
“second chance”, “Two timer”, then “two of a kind”. Or two timer, second chance, two of a kind. All could be in continuity for Harvey’s story.
The brighter the picture......
The darker the negative...
Rupert Thorne
Great video. I became aware of "Two of A Kind" a few years ago through the motion comic, and enjoyed it. I hadn't been aware of "Two Timer", but definitely plan to read it. Of the two, I'd probably rather see "Two Timer" made into an animated movie.
"Two of a Kind" is already animated, and it is perfect.
It's simple. Two -Timer is before Second Chance and Two of a Kind is after.
"Two-Timer" is definitely my favorite, and I think one of the best stories Paul Dini wrote for the Adventures comics. That one's always gonna be headcanon for me!
I have never heard of Two of a Kind, but I really like it. It is incredibly depressing and tragic, but the noir aspect is brilliant! I couldn’t help imagining Marilyn and Madeline being played by Bette Davis.
One last thing, the bit at the end about Two-Face's Batman Beyond whereabouts, not that these are canon, but the Earth-12 comics (during the "Batgirl Beyond" arc) concur with Dini's comments that Harvey was eventually rehabilitated. Just throwing that out there!
FOR THE CONTEST!!! I think i'd prefer Dini's animated, can't picture Harvey's self-mutilation animated in the dcau style, feels wrong
I know it's mainly for money reasons why DC never gives some of Batman's villains a redemption that sticks permanently or gives them a happy ending in life.
But where characters like Harley, Ivy, Clayface, Freeze, Croc and yes, ESPECIALLY Two-Face are concerned...they DESERVE to be happy, after how much life screwed them over. But no; DC will never cure Harvey of his MPD (Multiple Personality Disorder,) DC will never save Mr. Freeze or cure his wife, DC will never help Harley sever her ties with Joker and DC will forever leave the likes of Ivy, Croc and Clayface to be hated by the world.
All for the sake of green paper in their pockets
I find it funny how Two-Face, the character all about split decisions, has two comics that is up to choice whether one is canon or not. I say we flip a coin to find out 😂
Harvey is honestly imo the most personal Batman villain for Bruce. Joker might be Batman's ultimate, but Harvey and Bruce's friendship works so well as a storyline that it's really easy to see why people will always name him in their top 10 or 5 Batman villains.
Thanks for the video! Of the these stories, I think I prefer Two of a Kind due to it's more twisted and darker nature. Seeing Harvey giving in and rescarring himself is pretty horrifying. I do have some questions regarding Two-Face's DCAU design though.
1 Why were Two-Face's scarred portions of his body colored blue? Red would be a more logical color. I've theorized that the decision to go with blue scarring could have been the people behind BTAS preemptively censoring themselves since going with a red color would have been too realistic and thus too gruesome due to the censorship they were under, and more realistic body disfigurement would be pushing the envelope too much.
2 Has there ever been an explanation as to why his redesign in TNBA was not as radical as other characters' designs? They were under less censorship at this time, but Two-Face's disfigured portion of his body was still colored blue. It makes me think a red design was still considered too much, or maybe the crew just liked his old BTAS design and decided to not change it too much.
Not that we know of! Probably just didn’t require much of a design change into the new art style. I’ve never thought about the blue being a censorship thing, but possibly!
"...Or maybe the crew just liked his old BTAS design and decided to not change it too much."
Yep, I'd say that this was all it was. But if you look at both of the Two-Face designs side by side, they're more different than you might expect at first glance. They definitely went tighter, more angular, and sleeker with it. Same thing with Harley Quinn.
Yeah, they and Clayface are the most “it’s just drawn differently now”
I've always liked the degradation of Two-Face in "The Dark Knight Returns", when Batman's internal monologue about Dent's current hideout observes that it's partly dirty and partly cleaned, "But the division is no longer even. It favors the dirty."
Aside from Ras al Ghul, Two-Face is one of my favorite Batman villains
TBH Dinni's Two Timer helps make Timm's Two Of A Kind make sense; I've never read either but my IMMEDIATE question when you described Two Of A Kind was "what happened to Grace?" and when you slot Two Timer in it answers that question perfectly. Two Timer seems like it works regardless so between the two that one makes more sense to keep but if it's there then Two Of A Kind now works.
Regarding Dents actuall fate in the DCAU:
I've read somewhere that Dent was supposed to become one of the victims of the villain from the canned second Batman Beyond movie besides Riddler and the Mad hatter. Don't know how true this is (and I cannot find the source of this anymore), but it would explain why he never was brought up in Beyond. They might've wanted to not show him until then to surprise longtime viewers.
Mostly it was because they were purposely not bringing in old Batman foes, besides Mr. Freeze and eventually Joker (but only because they developed great stories/reasons to use them). But I could see that being the case, a victim of the “Anti-Batman” could’ve been pretty cool!
@@dcauwatchtower well Writer Stan Berkowitz originally had plans to bring back Killer Croc for the Batman Beyond show, as reptiles have long-life spans, implying that Croc could still be active after 50 years, but the idea was dropped.
12:44
"Because It was Tuesday!" Here you have your good old thumbs up good sir!!
I’m kind of surprised you didn’t mention the Batman animated series’ finale. It was called “judgement day”. There was a third personality in Harvey Dent called the judge. I wonder where that would’ve fell?
That’s because that’s the finale to “The New Batman Adventures” (the sequel series to BTAS)! This video was covering the time between the two series. But, as far as the Judge goes, Harvey seems to be doing much better by “Justice League vs the Fatal Five”!
@@dcauwatchtower you also covered where Harvey was during Batman Beyond.
Yep! But the video isn’t about every single Two-Face happenstance. 🤙
@@dcauwatchtower but you’re describing what happened to two-face in the video, you bring up comics and other possible continuations of his character, but you leave out another possible personality? Harvey having another personality in his mind was a cool concept.
I agree
Love how this videos timing came up to 22:22
It also came out at 2:22 pm on 2/22/22 😘
They're both simultaneously canon.
Batman Black and White comics are generally considered out of continuity stand alone one-offs. I say go with the official Batman TAS comic books.
Great video, as always you guys!
Coincidentally enough, I was recently thinking of the debut issues of "Batman & Robin Adventures". (BTW that run won 3 Eisners consecutively)
Given that this thear is the 30th annyversary of BTAS (HOLY SHIT YOU GUYS, WE ARE OLD!!!!!) I emailded DC a few day ago in order to pitch them an idea that I had about doing a celebratory TPB, in the same vein as those that they do like ""Green Arrow: 80 Years of the Emerald Archer", " The Joker: 80 Years of the Clown Prince of Crime", and many others.
The idea would be highligting the very best single issues of all 4 BTAS comic books tie-ins volumes
My personal selection for this compilatory book would be something like this:
Batman Adventures Vol 1 6 (1993)
Batman Adventures Vol 1 13 (1993)
Batman Adventures Vol 1 15 (1993)
Batman Adventures Vol 1 16 (1994)
Batman Adventures Vol 1 27 (1994)
Batman Adventures Vol 1 33 (1995)
The Batman and Robin Adventures Anual 1 (1995)
The Batman and Robin Adventures 1 (1995)
The Batman and Robin Adventures 2 (1995)
The Batman and Robin Adventures 6 (1996)
Gotham Adventures 10 (1999)
Gotham Adventures 26 (2000)
Gotham Adventures 37 (2001)
Batman Adventures Vol 2 17 (2004)
I calculated that it would be something like 350 pages, so its pefectly doable
If possible, I would also add both of BTAS related Black & White stories, "Two of a Kind" (the one mentioned on this video) and "The Bet" written by Paul Dini, art by Ronnie Del Carmen
Dindt get an answer by DC though, what about if we all e-mail bomb them?😏
DCPress@dcentertainment.com
dcsubs@midtowncomics.com
I remember back in the good ol' days of Wii and stuff when I got the Lego Batman the videogame either for birthday or Christmas and absolutely fell in love with it. And of all the characters featured in it I absolutely loved Two-face but that was mostly because of his cool black and white suit and dual revolvers
I prefer Two-Timer for bringing back Grace & closing off her relationship with Harvey, along with more focus on Bruce & Harvey's dynamic & the Joker manipulating events for his sick entertainment.
Obviously Joker is Batman's greatest adversary...but 2Face has always been my favorite rouge.
...I still want to see him done well, as a lead villain, in a motion picture
I thought he was grey.
To answer QOTD, I'd probably be interested in seeing the Batman & Robin Adventures two-parter adapted to animation, especially now that I know that it was one of their original movie ideas before Phantasm.
The fact that this video's lenght is 22 minutes makes the analysis even better.