Cheers! I save 1:10 for the wheels and wheel wells usually, and greasy bits, 1:20 is still incredibly effective for pretty much everything I've found. Surfex has to be the best APC, in terms of cleaning, on the market.
Surfex is hard to beat in any test on power and cost but like yourself I lean towards GT foam or citrus for a safer wash as they are non caustic and have rust inhibitors too. I’ve done surfex vs greenstar before and while the cost per L are both good I think surfex is about twice as strong at 1:20 does about the same as GS at 1:10.
Aha, it must have been your test that I've seen because I remember that sort of performance gap! It's good to see that I'm not the only one who has used GT and BH extensively and values the GT characteristics enough for it to be worth the extra cost.
@@SuperchargedLlama 2 well 3 of the top brands in my opinion, I’m moving away from trying to test every new thing that comes out or is hyped up. Odd bits I like from other brands but can’t go wrong with GT, BH and Koch really
I wonder if any of these products differ depending on environment? I am in Scotland and the car has been caked over the last week or so with road salt etc. I did a test with BH Surfex and Koch Green Star. One complete side for each product. Sprayed on with a pump sprayer at the recommended dilution rate. Left to dwell for 5 minutes and then covered it with GT Decon from a snow foam lance at 4% PIR. Again left to dwell for 5 minutes and then rinsed it all off with the pressure washer. The side with the Koch GS performed noticeably better than the side with the BH Surfex. For context, my car has CarPro Cquartz UK 3.0 which was applied 6 months ago. The weather up here has been bad with snow and ice for a week or so and I have done about 400 miles since the last wash. Today is the first time the temperature has been over freezing for about a week. It is 5 degrees today.
That's an interesting one isn't it. Perhaps there's something in the dirt that is responding differently to the different surfactants? I use deionised water so it's not too far off being similar to yours in terms of softness, although I'm sure it's mineral makeup is substantially different. That could be an interesting test to run though!
Great test.🙂 It's nice to have an efficient prewash soap. I have Koch Chemie Vbn, and think 1:10 is a quite strong dilution. I personally don't mix it stronger than 1:20 (5%) on my own car, but of course it depends on the level of dirt and grime. A very versatile prewash soap.👍
@@SuperchargedLlama Right. At that strenght I'd use a pumpsprayer. I use a pumpsprayer on the dirtiest parts, and then foam the whole car with a more diluted soap/prewash. Probably ~2% PIR with the foam. When the car is moderatly dirty, I just use a medium strong snowfoam. I live in Norway, so I've got a pH=10 snowfoam from my "local" supplier. I guess KC Af (Active foam) or CarPro Lift would be alternatives. That's what I use most washes.🙂
I'd like to see what adding surfexhd to a prewash foam would be like. Given I prefer using a ph neutral foam but for the heavy build up of dirt like during winter maybe adding some would be a good solution, no pun intended.
I wouldn't put Surfex in with an active foam, but if it was pH neutral then yes, it makes it more potent. If it's an active, high alkaline foam that you're using already, I'd spray the Surfex on the panel first and then cover it in the foam of choice. This will mean you can properly control the dilutions and not alter the foam characteristics. Surfex is very low foaming in general, it can make many other foams less stable if mixed in (I experimented early on, wasn't worth the hassle).
Absolutely! They're very no nonsense, and I think they have some of the best instructions too! Although their containers that they changed to? They're pants.
Given all the considerations with regards to dilutions, cost & cleaning power, surfex HD is the clear winner here given that free rinsing ability is irrelevant if you are following up with a contact wash after.
I'd echo that. I don't think I'd use it in the summer as when it dries out on trims, it can stain, but for winter duty its looking very capable isn't it?
Agreed. I've used AutoFoam for donkeys years myself, and Surfex, Auto-wheel, auto wash etc I'm using GT Snow V2 as my foam now as it cleans just as well as AutoFoam and is a more satisfying experience, but that's my choice and preference. Objectively you cannot beat AutoFoam.
That is great insight, this coincides with why it masks LSP's too, it leaves a lot of residue. Did you find that the streaking remains after the contact wash?
Hello supercharged llama! I’d like to ask, is there a problem with me using Koch Chemie Vb as a pre wash for my ceramic coated car every week or biweekly? I know it’s strong but if I use it at a 1:30 ratio in the foam cannon, I should be fine right? Appreciate your feedback ✨
This is a very good question. Vb is way more than is necessary for a coated car and regular wash. Although, at 1:30, you'd be looking at what, 35ml? That's definitely going to be safe, but I don't think it'll foam up much.
@@jeremymusa1544 have you done the Panel Impact Ratio calculation for your foam cannon? For me I'd be at about 300ml to get 1:30 on the panel. So the 30ml would be about 1:300, which to be fair is also on in their instructions, I think?
@jeremymusa1544 with Koch Chemie I think they tend to give you ratios for dispensing systems that could be in automated systems or pump sprayers, so they're talking about the dilutions that will directly hit the panel, meaning you can adjust them for PIR if you wanted to. With that said, James at Slims Detailing said just do 1:9 in the bottle, which for me is about 1% PIR in on if my setups, and about 0.8% in another. That's still more than enough for frequent washing though, so I'd try the 30-50ml sort of range you're looking at and see how that performs.
Another great comparison video 👍. My only question is with so many products overlapping each other how do differentiate between them, ie. GT decon, BH surfex hd & Autofoam, KC Vb & Greenstar, you see what I mean. As someone who is still learning about the chemicals how do you separate them or do you just buy all of that companies range. Hope that makes sense Adrain 🤞🤞
This is where the rabbit hole starts, isn't it Paul. As you know, I've bought so many different products and, for me, most work fine, because my cars are never really filthy. So for me it's about finding something I'm happy with and that is cost effective. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer really. That really doesn't help 😅😂😅
@@decker0373 yeh I know what you mean. Some people love citrus some people don't, same with Tfr's. I'm in the process of trying to find 2 or 3 brands that I'll keep going back to. One for the deep clean one for maybe winter wash and the other for summer or quick maintenance style washes. I love this hobby 🤭🤭
I think you're asking the right question here. Ultimately there are lots of products that can be used for multiple jobs, aren't there? I'd suggest that most weekend warriors, cleaning their cars every one or two weeks, will very rarely need something like Koch Vb or GT Decon. But they are handy to have due to their other uses when diluted down. There's a lot of overlap and I think I'm trying to help people find the best one, so they don't have to buy many different products themselves. GT Decon and Koch Vb are products that can do it all. Be used for interior cleaning, do an engine bay, Decon pre-wash, shampoo, wheel cleaner etc. absolutely brilliant. But also a potential sledgehammer to crack a walnut when it comes to regular use. So I'd say GT Snow V2 or Bilt Hamber AutoFoam for your pre wash, and then a nice pure shampoo for the contact wash.
@@SuperchargedLlama I've got the full exterior range of GT and find like you say I can do everything from a full deep decon wash to the minor maintenance quick wash. By what you're saying I'd only really need another brand just for show?? Then by that token its just about what potentially looks good on the shelf (eye catching bottles). It's a shame in some respects, I really like Koch Chemie products just as much as Garage Therapy's.....As that commedian says "FIGHT" 🤣🤣
Nice and simple demo. You make a point about pre-washes masking LSP due to rinsing, does that really matter if you are doing a contact wash which does rinse well? Or, does that pre wash masking carryover? Not something I've paid too much attention to but maybe I should.
Does it matter....no I'm not too sure it does really, as a Shampoo can do far more masking. What could potentially be an issue is that it misleads you into thinking your LSP is "done", and therefore you may end up using a stronger shampoo during the wash than you really need, and you might reapply when you don't need to perhaps?
@@flowinthrou it's a question of the products you use really, some leave lots of residue, some a very free rinsing. GT Snow V2 and Bilt Hamber Touch-Less are the two free-est rinsing ones I can think of, but you've got to then follow it up with a very nice and free rinsing pure shampoo. Bilt Hamber auto wash is terrible in this regard, but Feynlab Pure shampoo, Garage Therapy one Shampoo and a few others are really good at it.
if you use autowash, and as you say, it masks a coating, what is the remedy? A thorough post rinse or what? I've got auto wash as a concentrate shampoo on the shelf but mostly used polar blast shampoo as i like to foam it directly on the vehicle, either way, a thorough post rinse is always done then a contact dry with a towel @@SuperchargedLlama
Great video! If it came down to cost surfex would win but definitely would like to give Koch chemie vb a try. I think I’ll give nanolex a miss this time
Lovely comparison. Well made that was. Surfex HD being such good value for money whilst also not being caustic is a hard combination to beat. Not a fan of anything caustic tbh. Is GT V2 free rinsing then? Surfex HD and Autofoam will leave a cationic layer after being rinsed off which can only be removed by a contact wash from what I understand. However Touchless is free rinsing which makes it perfect for the winter slog when you just want to blast off the majority of the dirt quickly and get back inside.
Thanks dude! GT is free rinsing, yes. It uses sugar surfactants like Touch-Less does, and has something citrus in there, which is why it cleans better than Touch-Less on some types of dirt. And it rinses just as freely.
@@SuperchargedLlama Sounds like the ultimate winner GT does. The gallons alone as much better designed than BH which are god awful. Shame it's so much more expensive though. Nice they're working with PIR. Think it should be industry standard across the board because everyone's setup is different in flow rates, and machinery and that can have a massive impact on product usage. It's so similar to Touchless which is highly regarded by some out there. They all have their own use case. AF's value can't be beaten which is why I would say is a major consideration if you're planning to do a standard contact wash clean.
@@kwl189 your point about the containers is incredibly relevant I think, BH made a terrible decision when they changed them to what they use now. When I worked out the cost per wash, GT is actually cheaper than Touch-Less, because it cleans as well at 3% as Touch-Less does at 5%.
@@SuperchargedLlama It's a real shame and let down of Surfex HD, AF and Touchless. It's worse now they've added Traceless to it and other products (hope to see you do a test of Traceless to see if it's worth the hype). At the same time the pumps are useless and not much better leaking product out pointlessly. So I was thinking more the cost per wash GT is compared to AF which is run up to the max of 4% PIR. Touchless is about £5 more but a lot out there think AF is more powerful all round than Touchless.
I have generally been using auto foam and touchless in the ik12 pump sprayer at 5% and works amazing so much better value for money that way instead of using in a foam cannon then just layer it with a cheap high dilution foam win win
I found last winter that I didn't even need the foam over the top of the sprayed on AutoFoam, but you definitely do in summer for sure. Is your big IK one the foamer or just the sprayer? Sounds like the latter, but wanted to make sure.
Yes definitely agree not needing the foam over the top, just what the clients want to see 😂 and it’s not the foamer just the sprayer, also you have amazing content and testing all these products back to back in real world situations is what we all love to see
@@oliverjago-smith8764 that's very kind of you to say, thank you. I know what you mean about the clients wanting to see foam 😂 you have to humour them sometimes don't you? What I'm always surprised by is people who religiously just use citrus as their pre wash and don't ever think of using AutoFoam in the pump sprayer (unlike yourself of course).
I use Surfex HD as my pre wash especially for the winter washes. Carbon collective just launched a product for removing winter road salt ... may be worth a test with there new product ?
@@SuperchargedLlama Usually 1:8 or 1:10. I live in the welsh mountains with lots of tractor and logging lorry traffick so mud etc. is caked on mixed with the road salt.
That depends on the wax, but most of the current ones are pretty chemically resistant so you'd not harm them much with this. I absolutely understand why you're asking, why would you pre-wash with something like this which could strip it off? I've not found it makes a huge impact.
I love KC Pol star so got Green Star. At 5% against 5% Autofoam, i can't tell the difference on bodywork as both are very good. At 10% against 10% surfex, surfex did much much better on wheels and sausage fat on a grill. So, for me, AF and surfex suffice, despite really liking GS. Just sharing here. Id love to see you do two rounds of the big hitters. So, if there's only a small difference after round 1, maybe after 2 rounds the difference accentuates? Is 2 rounds safer or makes no difference at all?
That would be a great test, I can certainly do that. I'm thinking... Vb to cover the caustic Decon products, GT Snow V2 and Surfex? And GS as I've got a bit.
@@SuperchargedLlamathanks. I'd also be interested to see how a pH neutral (eg GT one) shampoo compares to an alkaline one (eg Autowash). My logic is some winter grime is still there after a prewash, so an alkaline shampoo is necessary. But is it? Anyway, thanks for the testing you do. I learn a lot about this and enjoy the content you produce
I agree, I don't think they have a duff one! None of them rinse particularly freely, but then they do have all the rust inhibitors in them and, ultimately, they're all very good at cleaning!
I have a lot of Pre-wash and APC's like Auto Finesse Avalanche, Kenotek Snow Foam, Bilt-Hamber Touch-Less, Bilt-Hamber Auto foam, Bilt-Hamber Surfex-HD, Koch Chemie Greenstar, Koch Chemie Mehrzweckreiniger, Nanolex Professional APC, Poorboy's World APC+D.... The one I will never buy again is the Avalanche. The other all are good in their own way. But for a very dirty car I use Bilt-Hamber Touch-Less or Auto Foam. If medium dirty I use Kenotek Snow Foam with 5% Surfex-HD in because Kenotek got a nice thick looking snow and smells like apples. Poorboy's World APC+D is good but leaves residue at higher dilutions and it stings in the throat when spraying. Nanolex Prof APC smells good, cleans decent. But Surfex-HD in 5l is unbeatable price/quality. I use it a lot and it cleans very well...even polish pads. But for some weird reason I think the Koch Chemie Greenstar cleans tires better in a 1:5 dilution against the Surfex-HD in a 1:5 ratio. I think it's the only thing where Greenstar is better in, cleaning tires. But those are my experiences.
I probably won't as I've found ceramic shampoos don't really fit my workflow. I prefer to add the protection as a separate stage and have a better detergent for the wash phase.
@@Hiteshdattani1990 that's true, it can be used as a shampoo but you're right, it can be a spray and rinse sealant. I've got a tonne of protector wax and synergy boost to use before I buy an alternative but when I get near the end of them, I shall. That'll be a long time though.
@@SuperchargedLlama thanks for the reply, yes I understand as a detailer/ youtuber you would have lots of products, however to make some content/review on this subject for touch-on can you not buy the pouch they cost £1? Its just I've watched alot of your RUclips videos and how clear and honest you are in your contents makes a difference.
It really won't, unless you're using it at 1:5 or something. Modern waxes and sealants are so chemically resistant that they'll easily withstand it. You'd never need to use it higher than 1:10 for pre-wash either, 1:20 is usually more than enough, 1:10 is good for greasy door shuts or wheels.
I think I need some Primus in my life. It'd be lovely if Labocosmetica would see this and send me a care package, but I feel like I'm going to have to be spending my hard earned here.
@@centurion103 I'd expect that tbh, Surfex is probably one of the most concentrated detergents on the detailing market. Tbh it's probably one of the most concentrated detergents in the industry at all.
Good video, Adrian. As Paul has said below, it's all a bit of a brain fart really, too many brands and products now 😂. So, let me ask, do you have "go to" prewash products and if so what are they. Or, if you could only buy 1, 2 or maybe 3, what would they be? All the best mate. 👍
Great question that! I'd say GT Snow V2 is the one I reach for, but if you could only buy one product then it is still AutoFoam that's the biggest, non caustic, hitter. However, give I could have 3 options then I'd say GT Snow V2, then GT Decon or Koch Vb, and then Surfex.
Poorly conducted test, you have so many variables here... you use manufacture's names to pull in viewers to your channel and don't even test properly. Some you foam, some you don't you vary the strength whimsically. Marks out of 10. 4. Must try harder - POW!
That depends on what you're looking to test and knowing how the products are typically used. The Nanolex is designed to be foamed, as is the Vb. Surfex HD is a just an APC and typically we don't foam it in use, it is applied via a pump sprayer or trigger bottle. If it was foamed it would well have performed even better. Dilutions were set by the manufactures recommendations, apart from Surfex which is kinda left up to you to try, so in this instance I have demonstrated that a dilution that is half the strength, applied in a method that will have a lower dwell time, but also lower volume of product STILL cleaned better. And it's not mildly caustic. I appreciate that you may not like the test and don't agree with how it's conducted, but for my needs I am absolutely satisfied with the results I have seen and I have no problem recommending products based on what I have demonstrated. Which is probably the best way to describe it, a demonstration, it's not a scientific test and I don't believe it's presented as such.
So which are you saying is best then, and under precisely what circumstances? The problem is they were not applied equally plus the dwell times were all over the place. For you to make public your opinion, as a professional, on which product is best based on what you portray to be objective testing is dangerous and I would suggest could lead to a costly challenge by a manufacturer. I know this for certain. @@SuperchargedLlama
@@Mr.DoctorScience I'm not suggesting one is best in this one, I'm leaving that up to the viewer to make their own judgement off what they've seen here. I personally would choose Koch Vb, but others might choose Surfex HD due it's very good vfm. No one would choose Pol Star or Feynlab Pure Rinseless in these circumstances I suspect, given what you see here. In the previous video I tried the Nanolex at 1:30 (their recommendation for paint, but it did practically nothing. Koch recommend 1:4 for wheels and 1:10 for paint - they're similar products in a sense, and judging by the performance here, similarly diluted - but the nanolex costs £51 for 5L and the Koch is £30 for 5L, so I'd choose the Koch Vb). Dwell times being all over the place....about 30 seconds elapsed in order to apply all the products to the panel. Sure, it's a variable, but it wouldn't have made a huge difference here really (minutes make a marked difference in the performance of pre-wash products, half of one rarely does in my experience), and if anything it would have flattered the Nanolex (first applied) and hindered the Vb (last), but then so would the fact that the Vb was on the marginally dirtier part of the panel, in which case you could argue it marginally out performs the Nanolex. Ultimately I don't think you'd objections would significantly alter the impact the outcome of the test. They're relevant observations, but not significant enough to impact the behaviours demonstrated. You may not agree of course, which is fine - do your own tests, I'd look forward to watching that.
I test surfactant blends for a range of cleaning industries. Reducing variables is critically important unless you want to be challenged. You should produce dilutions equal in strength and applied in equal volumes (you give no info at all about this most fundamental aspect) or you could apply dilutions on an equal cost basis, that would be valid. You seem to pick and choose depending on what outcome suits your stance. You should remain fair and impartial.@@SuperchargedLlama
I believe I am far and impartial @@Mr.DoctorScience - I disgaree with comparisons all being at the same dilutions when manufacturers recommend certain ratios. I get the argument completely btw, I just don't think it's that useful to test everything at 1:10 (for example) when Nanolex say 1:30 is their max dilution for paint, and I know 1:10 is sort of enginebay degreasing for Surfex. For labatory testing I can see it being important to compare competitor products at the same dilution, but in open market I believe it's important to follow manufacturer recommendations for competing products and to test their marketing claims. So overall I am happy with my approach, and I know that you're not. I'm alright with that and I'm not going to lose any sleep over it, and you shouldn't either. But if you make your own content do let me know, it would be interesting to see it.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Surfex HD at 1:10, different class 👍🏻 great vid
Cheers!
I save 1:10 for the wheels and wheel wells usually, and greasy bits, 1:20 is still incredibly effective for pretty much everything I've found. Surfex has to be the best APC, in terms of cleaning, on the market.
Are these dilutions 1:10 (wheels), 1:20 (paint) safe to use on Gtechnig Ceramic coated paintwork? Nice video, as usual 👍
@@MightyRedChick07 probably. I wouldn't say for sure but I personally wouldn't have an aversion using them on a coated car.
Surfex is hard to beat in any test on power and cost but like yourself I lean towards GT foam or citrus for a safer wash as they are non caustic and have rust inhibitors too.
I’ve done surfex vs greenstar before and while the cost per L are both good I think surfex is about twice as strong at 1:20 does about the same as GS at 1:10.
Aha, it must have been your test that I've seen because I remember that sort of performance gap!
It's good to see that I'm not the only one who has used GT and BH extensively and values the GT characteristics enough for it to be worth the extra cost.
@@SuperchargedLlama 2 well 3 of the top brands in my opinion, I’m moving away from trying to test every new thing that comes out or is hyped up. Odd bits I like from other brands but can’t go wrong with GT, BH and Koch really
I wonder if any of these products differ depending on environment? I am in Scotland and the car has been caked over the last week or so with road salt etc. I did a test with BH Surfex and Koch Green Star. One complete side for each product. Sprayed on with a pump sprayer at the recommended dilution rate. Left to dwell for 5 minutes and then covered it with GT Decon from a snow foam lance at 4% PIR. Again left to dwell for 5 minutes and then rinsed it all off with the pressure washer. The side with the Koch GS performed noticeably better than the side with the BH Surfex. For context, my car has CarPro Cquartz UK 3.0 which was applied 6 months ago. The weather up here has been bad with snow and ice for a week or so and I have done about 400 miles since the last wash. Today is the first time the temperature has been over freezing for about a week. It is 5 degrees today.
That's an interesting one isn't it. Perhaps there's something in the dirt that is responding differently to the different surfactants? I use deionised water so it's not too far off being similar to yours in terms of softness, although I'm sure it's mineral makeup is substantially different.
That could be an interesting test to run though!
these tests are interesting, really enjoy watching your content! thanks!
Thank you for taking the time to let me know 🤘
Great test.🙂 It's nice to have an efficient prewash soap. I have Koch Chemie Vbn, and think 1:10 is a quite strong dilution. I personally don't mix it stronger than 1:20 (5%) on my own car, but of course it depends on the level of dirt and grime. A very versatile prewash soap.👍
Would I be right in thinking you're applying it via a pump sprayer/foamer as opposed to a snow foam gun?
@@SuperchargedLlama Right. At that strenght I'd use a pumpsprayer. I use a pumpsprayer on the dirtiest parts, and then foam the whole car with a more diluted soap/prewash. Probably ~2% PIR with the foam. When the car is moderatly dirty, I just use a medium strong snowfoam. I live in Norway, so I've got a pH=10 snowfoam from my "local" supplier. I guess KC Af (Active foam) or CarPro Lift would be alternatives. That's what I use most washes.🙂
Awesome, thanks! Going to use up my Touchless and Auto Foam, then probably try GT as your tests show it as very good and doesn't mask.
You're welcome darling. I can't see you being disappointed with the GT. It's an easy switch for a BH user because they've also bothered with PIR.
I'd like to see what adding surfexhd to a prewash foam would be like. Given I prefer using a ph neutral foam but for the heavy build up of dirt like during winter maybe adding some would be a good solution, no pun intended.
I wouldn't put Surfex in with an active foam, but if it was pH neutral then yes, it makes it more potent. If it's an active, high alkaline foam that you're using already, I'd spray the Surfex on the panel first and then cover it in the foam of choice. This will mean you can properly control the dilutions and not alter the foam characteristics. Surfex is very low foaming in general, it can make many other foams less stable if mixed in (I experimented early on, wasn't worth the hassle).
Another great comparison test, BH products are certainly up there with the best and without doubt one of the best for vfm.
Absolutely! They're very no nonsense, and I think they have some of the best instructions too! Although their containers that they changed to? They're pants.
I loved your intro and subbed even before watching the full video which btw was excellent 😊
You're welcome darling 😁
Given all the considerations with regards to dilutions, cost & cleaning power, surfex HD is the clear winner here given that free rinsing ability is irrelevant if you are following up with a contact wash after.
I'd echo that. I don't think I'd use it in the summer as when it dries out on trims, it can stain, but for winter duty its looking very capable isn't it?
I’ve used BH products for decades. Hands down, tje best there is and also superb value for money.
Agreed. I've used AutoFoam for donkeys years myself, and Surfex, Auto-wheel, auto wash etc
I'm using GT Snow V2 as my foam now as it cleans just as well as AutoFoam and is a more satisfying experience, but that's my choice and preference. Objectively you cannot beat AutoFoam.
I like SHD for interior cleaning. But whenever I have used it on dark coloured cars, it leave terrible streaks after a very short dwell time.
That is great insight, this coincides with why it masks LSP's too, it leaves a lot of residue.
Did you find that the streaking remains after the contact wash?
On my wife's black car, yes. I then have to go over it with something like super resin polish.
@@johngray8798 eeeesh, what a faff!
Hello supercharged llama!
I’d like to ask, is there a problem with me using Koch Chemie Vb as a pre wash for my ceramic coated car every week or biweekly?
I know it’s strong but if I use it at a 1:30 ratio in the foam cannon, I should be fine right?
Appreciate your feedback ✨
This is a very good question. Vb is way more than is necessary for a coated car and regular wash. Although, at 1:30, you'd be looking at what, 35ml? That's definitely going to be safe, but I don't think it'll foam up much.
@@SuperchargedLlama thanks for your feedback brother. I’ll try this concoction tomorrow and will update you my findingss
@@jeremymusa1544 have you done the Panel Impact Ratio calculation for your foam cannon?
For me I'd be at about 300ml to get 1:30 on the panel. So the 30ml would be about 1:300, which to be fair is also on in their instructions, I think?
@@SuperchargedLlama I have not actually. I’ve always used the normal ratio instead of the PIR because I’ve never used bilt hamber 😂
@jeremymusa1544 with Koch Chemie I think they tend to give you ratios for dispensing systems that could be in automated systems or pump sprayers, so they're talking about the dilutions that will directly hit the panel, meaning you can adjust them for PIR if you wanted to.
With that said, James at Slims Detailing said just do 1:9 in the bottle, which for me is about 1% PIR in on if my setups, and about 0.8% in another. That's still more than enough for frequent washing though, so I'd try the 30-50ml sort of range you're looking at and see how that performs.
Another great comparison video 👍.
My only question is with so many products overlapping each other how do differentiate between them, ie. GT decon, BH surfex hd & Autofoam, KC Vb & Greenstar, you see what I mean. As someone who is still learning about the chemicals how do you separate them or do you just buy all of that companies range. Hope that makes sense Adrain 🤞🤞
This is where the rabbit hole starts, isn't it Paul. As you know, I've bought so many different products and, for me, most work fine, because my cars are never really filthy. So for me it's about finding something I'm happy with and that is cost effective. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer really. That really doesn't help 😅😂😅
@@decker0373 yeh I know what you mean. Some people love citrus some people don't, same with Tfr's. I'm in the process of trying to find 2 or 3 brands that I'll keep going back to. One for the deep clean one for maybe winter wash and the other for summer or quick maintenance style washes.
I love this hobby 🤭🤭
I think you're asking the right question here.
Ultimately there are lots of products that can be used for multiple jobs, aren't there?
I'd suggest that most weekend warriors, cleaning their cars every one or two weeks, will very rarely need something like Koch Vb or GT Decon. But they are handy to have due to their other uses when diluted down.
There's a lot of overlap and I think I'm trying to help people find the best one, so they don't have to buy many different products themselves.
GT Decon and Koch Vb are products that can do it all. Be used for interior cleaning, do an engine bay, Decon pre-wash, shampoo, wheel cleaner etc. absolutely brilliant. But also a potential sledgehammer to crack a walnut when it comes to regular use.
So I'd say GT Snow V2 or Bilt Hamber AutoFoam for your pre wash, and then a nice pure shampoo for the contact wash.
@@SuperchargedLlama I've got the full exterior range of GT and find like you say I can do everything from a full deep decon wash to the minor maintenance quick wash. By what you're saying I'd only really need another brand just for show?? Then by that token its just about what potentially looks good on the shelf (eye catching bottles). It's a shame in some respects, I really like Koch Chemie products just as much as Garage Therapy's.....As that commedian says "FIGHT" 🤣🤣
Nice and simple demo. You make a point about pre-washes masking LSP due to rinsing, does that really matter if you are doing a contact wash which does rinse well? Or, does that pre wash masking carryover? Not something I've paid too much attention to but maybe I should.
Does it matter....no I'm not too sure it does really, as a Shampoo can do far more masking. What could potentially be an issue is that it misleads you into thinking your LSP is "done", and therefore you may end up using a stronger shampoo during the wash than you really need, and you might reapply when you don't need to perhaps?
@@SuperchargedLlama Yes, the perception around LSP makes sense as is the strength and removal of shampoo. Cheers!
So how do you wash in order not to mask?
@@flowinthrou it's a question of the products you use really, some leave lots of residue, some a very free rinsing. GT Snow V2 and Bilt Hamber Touch-Less are the two free-est rinsing ones I can think of, but you've got to then follow it up with a very nice and free rinsing pure shampoo. Bilt Hamber auto wash is terrible in this regard, but Feynlab Pure shampoo, Garage Therapy one Shampoo and a few others are really good at it.
if you use autowash, and as you say, it masks a coating, what is the remedy? A thorough post rinse or what? I've got auto wash as a concentrate shampoo on the shelf but mostly used polar blast shampoo as i like to foam it directly on the vehicle, either way, a thorough post rinse is always done then a contact dry with a towel @@SuperchargedLlama
Great video! If it came down to cost surfex would win but definitely would like to give Koch chemie vb a try. I think I’ll give nanolex a miss this time
I agree with you. The thing with Surfex is that it leaves quite a lot for the contact wash to remove in terms of product residue.
Yes please use greenstar in your next test!
Will do. I'll do it at the same dilutions as Surfex.
Thank you sir! Look forward to the video!
Lovely comparison. Well made that was. Surfex HD being such good value for money whilst also not being caustic is a hard combination to beat. Not a fan of anything caustic tbh. Is GT V2 free rinsing then? Surfex HD and Autofoam will leave a cationic layer after being rinsed off which can only be removed by a contact wash from what I understand. However Touchless is free rinsing which makes it perfect for the winter slog when you just want to blast off the majority of the dirt quickly and get back inside.
Thanks dude!
GT is free rinsing, yes. It uses sugar surfactants like Touch-Less does, and has something citrus in there, which is why it cleans better than Touch-Less on some types of dirt. And it rinses just as freely.
@@SuperchargedLlama Sounds like the ultimate winner GT does. The gallons alone as much better designed than BH which are god awful. Shame it's so much more expensive though. Nice they're working with PIR. Think it should be industry standard across the board because everyone's setup is different in flow rates, and machinery and that can have a massive impact on product usage. It's so similar to Touchless which is highly regarded by some out there. They all have their own use case. AF's value can't be beaten which is why I would say is a major consideration if you're planning to do a standard contact wash clean.
@@kwl189 your point about the containers is incredibly relevant I think, BH made a terrible decision when they changed them to what they use now.
When I worked out the cost per wash, GT is actually cheaper than Touch-Less, because it cleans as well at 3% as Touch-Less does at 5%.
@@SuperchargedLlama It's a real shame and let down of Surfex HD, AF and Touchless. It's worse now they've added Traceless to it and other products (hope to see you do a test of Traceless to see if it's worth the hype). At the same time the pumps are useless and not much better leaking product out pointlessly.
So I was thinking more the cost per wash GT is compared to AF which is run up to the max of 4% PIR. Touchless is about £5 more but a lot out there think AF is more powerful all round than Touchless.
@@kwl189 yeah I agree with absolutely every aspect of what you've just said.
I have generally been using auto foam and touchless in the ik12 pump sprayer at 5% and works amazing so much better value for money that way instead of using in a foam cannon then just layer it with a cheap high dilution foam win win
I found last winter that I didn't even need the foam over the top of the sprayed on AutoFoam, but you definitely do in summer for sure.
Is your big IK one the foamer or just the sprayer? Sounds like the latter, but wanted to make sure.
Yes definitely agree not needing the foam over the top, just what the clients want to see 😂 and it’s not the foamer just the sprayer, also you have amazing content and testing all these products back to back in real world situations is what we all love to see
@@oliverjago-smith8764 that's very kind of you to say, thank you.
I know what you mean about the clients wanting to see foam 😂 you have to humour them sometimes don't you?
What I'm always surprised by is people who religiously just use citrus as their pre wash and don't ever think of using AutoFoam in the pump sprayer (unlike yourself of course).
I use Surfex HD as my pre wash especially for the winter washes. Carbon collective just launched a product for removing winter road salt ... may be worth a test with there new product ?
I'll have to check that out.
What dilution are you using your Surfex at for pre wash?
@@SuperchargedLlama Usually 1:8 or 1:10. I live in the welsh mountains with lots of tractor and logging lorry traffick so mud etc. is caked on mixed with the road salt.
@@markandbow5774 that specific type of dirt might be better served by Touch-less, but that is certainly pricier when compared to Surfex.
Does the surfex at that dilution remove your current wax on the car ? Would it need re-waxing ?
That depends on the wax, but most of the current ones are pretty chemically resistant so you'd not harm them much with this.
I absolutely understand why you're asking, why would you pre-wash with something like this which could strip it off? I've not found it makes a huge impact.
I love KC Pol star so got Green Star. At 5% against 5% Autofoam, i can't tell the difference on bodywork as both are very good. At 10% against 10% surfex, surfex did much much better on wheels and sausage fat on a grill.
So, for me, AF and surfex suffice, despite really liking GS. Just sharing here.
Id love to see you do two rounds of the big hitters. So, if there's only a small difference after round 1, maybe after 2 rounds the difference accentuates? Is 2 rounds safer or makes no difference at all?
That would be a great test, I can certainly do that. I'm thinking... Vb to cover the caustic Decon products, GT Snow V2 and Surfex? And GS as I've got a bit.
@@SuperchargedLlamathanks. I'd also be interested to see how a pH neutral (eg GT one) shampoo compares to an alkaline one (eg Autowash).
My logic is some winter grime is still there after a prewash, so an alkaline shampoo is necessary. But is it?
Anyway, thanks for the testing you do. I learn a lot about this and enjoy the content you produce
Bilt Hamber is so difficult to beat in terms of value for money in my opinion, almost all of their products work REALLY well too!
I agree, I don't think they have a duff one! None of them rinse particularly freely, but then they do have all the rust inhibitors in them and, ultimately, they're all very good at cleaning!
I have a lot of Pre-wash and APC's like Auto Finesse Avalanche, Kenotek Snow Foam, Bilt-Hamber Touch-Less, Bilt-Hamber Auto foam, Bilt-Hamber Surfex-HD, Koch Chemie Greenstar, Koch Chemie Mehrzweckreiniger, Nanolex Professional APC, Poorboy's World APC+D.... The one I will never buy again is the Avalanche. The other all are good in their own way. But for a very dirty car I use Bilt-Hamber Touch-Less or Auto Foam. If medium dirty I use Kenotek Snow Foam with 5% Surfex-HD in because Kenotek got a nice thick looking snow and smells like apples. Poorboy's World APC+D is good but leaves residue at higher dilutions and it stings in the throat when spraying. Nanolex Prof APC smells good, cleans decent. But Surfex-HD in 5l is unbeatable price/quality. I use it a lot and it cleans very well...even polish pads. But for some weird reason I think the Koch Chemie Greenstar cleans tires better in a 1:5 dilution against the Surfex-HD in a 1:5 ratio. I think it's the only thing where Greenstar is better in, cleaning tires. But those are my experiences.
Some very useful insights there. I love these sorts of conversations, thanks for taking the time to share that.
Good video!
Thank you for taking the time to comment, it's really motivating for me.
Can you please review bilt hamber touch on?
I probably won't as I've found ceramic shampoos don't really fit my workflow. I prefer to add the protection as a separate stage and have a better detergent for the wash phase.
@@SuperchargedLlama hi thanks for quick reply. Touch-On isn't a shampoo isit? I thought it was protection which has beading and shetting etc
@@Hiteshdattani1990 that's true, it can be used as a shampoo but you're right, it can be a spray and rinse sealant. I've got a tonne of protector wax and synergy boost to use before I buy an alternative but when I get near the end of them, I shall. That'll be a long time though.
@@SuperchargedLlama thanks for the reply, yes I understand as a detailer/ youtuber you would have lots of products, however to make some content/review on this subject for touch-on can you not buy the pouch they cost £1? Its just I've watched alot of your RUclips videos and how clear and honest you are in your contents makes a difference.
Surfex HD will hurt or remove most sealants.
It really won't, unless you're using it at 1:5 or something. Modern waxes and sealants are so chemically resistant that they'll easily withstand it. You'd never need to use it higher than 1:10 for pre-wash either, 1:20 is usually more than enough, 1:10 is good for greasy door shuts or wheels.
i would like to see surfex vs #primus
I think I need some Primus in my life. It'd be lovely if Labocosmetica would see this and send me a care package, but I feel like I'm going to have to be spending my hard earned here.
@@SuperchargedLlamaits like 14pound for a liter. With 1:50 to 1:80 isnt that bad deal to test
@@centurion103 absolutely, but I've got SO many products ATM, and so little space 😂
Surfex 1:20 vs primus 1:50. The sufex was indeed cleaner. Ive tested yesterday
@@centurion103 I'd expect that tbh, Surfex is probably one of the most concentrated detergents on the detailing market. Tbh it's probably one of the most concentrated detergents in the industry at all.
Labocosmetica Primus 2.0!
Yeah I think I need to give that a go, they do sell it in smaller bottles, don't they? I don't need another 5L of pre-wash right now 😂
Good video, Adrian. As Paul has said below, it's all a bit of a brain fart really, too many brands and products now 😂.
So, let me ask, do you have "go to" prewash products and if so what are they. Or, if you could only buy 1, 2 or maybe 3, what would they be?
All the best mate. 👍
Great question that! I'd say GT Snow V2 is the one I reach for, but if you could only buy one product then it is still AutoFoam that's the biggest, non caustic, hitter.
However, give I could have 3 options then I'd say GT Snow V2, then GT Decon or Koch Vb, and then Surfex.
Poorly conducted test, you have so many variables here... you use manufacture's names to pull in viewers to your channel and don't even test properly. Some you foam, some you don't you vary the strength whimsically. Marks out of 10. 4. Must try harder - POW!
That depends on what you're looking to test and knowing how the products are typically used. The Nanolex is designed to be foamed, as is the Vb. Surfex HD is a just an APC and typically we don't foam it in use, it is applied via a pump sprayer or trigger bottle. If it was foamed it would well have performed even better. Dilutions were set by the manufactures recommendations, apart from Surfex which is kinda left up to you to try, so in this instance I have demonstrated that a dilution that is half the strength, applied in a method that will have a lower dwell time, but also lower volume of product STILL cleaned better. And it's not mildly caustic.
I appreciate that you may not like the test and don't agree with how it's conducted, but for my needs I am absolutely satisfied with the results I have seen and I have no problem recommending products based on what I have demonstrated. Which is probably the best way to describe it, a demonstration, it's not a scientific test and I don't believe it's presented as such.
So which are you saying is best then, and under precisely what circumstances? The problem is they were not applied equally plus the dwell times were all over the place. For you to make public your opinion, as a professional, on which product is best based on what you portray to be objective testing is dangerous and I would suggest could lead to a costly challenge by a manufacturer. I know this for certain. @@SuperchargedLlama
@@Mr.DoctorScience I'm not suggesting one is best in this one, I'm leaving that up to the viewer to make their own judgement off what they've seen here. I personally would choose Koch Vb, but others might choose Surfex HD due it's very good vfm. No one would choose Pol Star or Feynlab Pure Rinseless in these circumstances I suspect, given what you see here. In the previous video I tried the Nanolex at 1:30 (their recommendation for paint, but it did practically nothing. Koch recommend 1:4 for wheels and 1:10 for paint - they're similar products in a sense, and judging by the performance here, similarly diluted - but the nanolex costs £51 for 5L and the Koch is £30 for 5L, so I'd choose the Koch Vb).
Dwell times being all over the place....about 30 seconds elapsed in order to apply all the products to the panel. Sure, it's a variable, but it wouldn't have made a huge difference here really (minutes make a marked difference in the performance of pre-wash products, half of one rarely does in my experience), and if anything it would have flattered the Nanolex (first applied) and hindered the Vb (last), but then so would the fact that the Vb was on the marginally dirtier part of the panel, in which case you could argue it marginally out performs the Nanolex.
Ultimately I don't think you'd objections would significantly alter the impact the outcome of the test. They're relevant observations, but not significant enough to impact the behaviours demonstrated. You may not agree of course, which is fine - do your own tests, I'd look forward to watching that.
I test surfactant blends for a range of cleaning industries. Reducing variables is critically important unless you want to be challenged. You should produce dilutions equal in strength and applied in equal volumes (you give no info at all about this most fundamental aspect) or you could apply dilutions on an equal cost basis, that would be valid. You seem to pick and choose depending on what outcome suits your stance. You should remain fair and impartial.@@SuperchargedLlama
I believe I am far and impartial @@Mr.DoctorScience - I disgaree with comparisons all being at the same dilutions when manufacturers recommend certain ratios. I get the argument completely btw, I just don't think it's that useful to test everything at 1:10 (for example) when Nanolex say 1:30 is their max dilution for paint, and I know 1:10 is sort of enginebay degreasing for Surfex. For labatory testing I can see it being important to compare competitor products at the same dilution, but in open market I believe it's important to follow manufacturer recommendations for competing products and to test their marketing claims.
So overall I am happy with my approach, and I know that you're not. I'm alright with that and I'm not going to lose any sleep over it, and you shouldn't either. But if you make your own content do let me know, it would be interesting to see it.