I don't really play Demonology, but even so I don't like these changes. If the fundamental problem the devs have with Demo is that it's too OP because once you summon your demons, they do their dmg automatically without any further input from you, thus not only giving you too much mobility, but also freeing you too much so you can do whatever you want, then maybe address this from a different perspective. Make this pet class unique using its fantasy. I would add some spells that create portals that summon demons. But instead of those being just cast and done, those portals will stay on the ground for some time, and the Warlock needs to support them and strengthen them with specialized spells. You could even make it so those support spells need to be casted and deal no damage, but as a result, the demons will be stronger. And even make it so that once the demons are summoned, you still need to tend to them. Because they want to break free from your control, so they will either boringly despawn or sometimes attack you or your allies if not properly dominated. And to balance this additional management effort, you could make the demons do really a lot of damage. This would solve the alleged problem that Warlock has too much movement. It also could solve the the alleged problem with resources and too much demonbolt.
I don’t think they’d implement that last part about them turning on allies, I get the high risk high reward factor, but it would become problematic for group content if you make a mistake in your rotation effectively making it less likely to receive invites for said content. I do like the idea though, but I feel the community just wouldn’t take to it very well.
@@fwam2k7 Maybe then the demon only turns on you, not allies. Like when Shadow Priests had the talent that would give them Void form and then kill them. Only this wouldn't kill you with certainty, only if you made a huge mistake. And allies wouldn't take friendly fire.
Demo main here just popping in to say: we already cast Shadowbolt a lot. These changes guarantee it'll be 90% of our rotation. Shadowbolt getting buffed in an unacceptable solution, Demonology's main goal must always be to summon more demons and have 95% of your DPS come from summon. There is no middle ground in this. We either summon demons, or rework us into something completely different, but nobody will be content with HoG feeling like a big cooldown EDIT: this is NOT about mobility. It is about changing us from a summoner to a worse Destro. We should never be doing most of our damage from direct cast spells
@@slanderpop8771 What we're gaining from Diabolist we're losing 2 fold from our spec tree. In DF, your main goal is summoning as many imps as possible. The TWW alpha changes will, no exaggerating, have you cast 3 Shadowbolt before you can even use Hand of Guldan. You'll probably be able to get 5 imps up max. Oh, they also removed Nether Portal. So basically rotation in TWW now is SB>SB>Hounds>SB>Stalker>SB>SB>SB>SB>Hand of Guldan>SB>SB>Hand of Guldan repeat
@@Dofladingus to top it off, we share Diabolist stuff with Destro, lmao. IMO all the Diabolist stuff should be baseline for Demon if they are removing Nether Portal. Make a new hero class on top of that, preferably one that doesn't take all the spec fantasy and give it to Destro.
completely disagree. demo has only been about demonic armies since bfa, pre-rework it was all about *enhancing* demons, tyrant is much more in theme with demo than anything else in the spec. pre demon hunter we were full of casts, molten core, incinerate, etc. in classic and tbc demo was just all things demon and i would actually prefer it goes back to that. demo has completely forgotten about the main cast of demons we already had in favor of new demons, demo and aff use felhunter, succ, blueberry, and imp more than we do and we are supposed to be demon specialized. even in DF there are remnants of our past, teachings of the black harvest in the class tree is entirely about demon empowerment and is *worthless* to demo because we would never summon anything but felguard and all they get is pursuit range and cd... demo strayed away from what it was meam to be a long time ago, not now.
@@Blood_Ronin Frost needs a new type of way to move and do damage i was thinking more like ice damage in a way of applying cold in a way of bleeds and have a great rotation on top of it and making icy pathj to slide thru faster we want class fantasy make me sub zero or something invent more
@@Klaidas21DND needs to go for frost and Remorseless winter should be the skill that enables your cleave. That way you can move around without worrying about positioning. I’ve hated BoS since its inception, it’s way too reliant on tank positioning and in high keys it’s pretty much a dud. One mess up on the rotation and you’re pretty much a wet noodle until it’s all back up again. Glacial advance is super unsatisfying to press as well, all these classes have super cool animations and we get nothing. It just needs so so much work. I’m generally happy with unholy, but it takes way too long to actually ramp up the damage compared to other classes that can blast higher than us in a fraction of the time.
Unholy desperately needs a rework. FAR too much button bloat, the 3 min burst stuff needs redesigned. I've never played frost because it doesn't look fun, so, I guess that also needs a rework lol.
There was also a broken way to play frost mage in Warlords. You could literally keep Icy Veins up through an entire boss fight just by casting Ice Lance repeatedly. You'd burst your normal rotation, let icy veins get down to about 2 or 3 seconds left, and then continue to ice Lance until you recharge it to full timer and then unload again.
Since this post went out they also reduced the chance when a dog dies you now have 35% chance (down from 100% per dog to get a demonic core. This further reduces the amount of imps you can have at any one time, and relies on even more RNG. Reducing the amount of imps also reduces your AOE heavily, so unless imps gain a damage buff both from casting and from imploding, this wont feel very fun. At this point the spec needs a real overhaul, not a partial change every other patch
@trustytraitor it ruins the literally core of the spec entirely. Only thing I can assume is the demons need to be more powerful to compensate, and mobility will still be a bit worse
Ohhh I remember those days of 170% mastery on ele + the talent to overload a second time. Was PEAK fun. Hoping stormbringer feels the same! Especially since it's coupled with free stormkeeper heh.
i'm perplexed by the removal of nether tempest! was nice to have a button for movement, and might decrease the value of arcane echo a lot not to have it. but ig if you're actually casting missiles into totm maybe it will balance out
I enjoyed arcane during nathria. I didn’t feel like it was overly complicated back then. More involved but nothing like it is today. If I got my nathria era arcane back I would be happy and switch back.
A rework would be a bit more groundbreaking, like giving sword-melee moves to a Mage, giving dagger-moves to a Priest, and giving rifle-moves to a Warrior. They can all wield those weapons but never use them, because the builds offer no imaginative flexibility beyond what pool you draw from (mana, energy, rage, etc.). This is more like repainting to me, and for some specs, it's not a very good job.
They keep trying to do shadowbolt with Demo, but the last time that was more attached to the spec was when it had demon form. It really makes you feel nothing as Demo now that it's not about shadow and flame anymore. By the way, why is nether portal not the imp mechanic? Why imps? :P Also to edit, I must say I love 45sec-1min cds. It feels great.
Im freaking in love with that Fire mage and WW talent trees changes. I usually dont play Mage but that new Fire tree + hero talents(orbs + phoenix) has sold it to me. WW i played alot in recent years but it became boring cuz the Tree always stayed the same, no proper option for different builds. Now (or in TWW)i finally have some proper options to choose in terms of playstyle and also to mix up with Tier Sets. I still hope Shamans get more options too.
Mages are just getting better. Warlocks are getting frustrated with gameplay losing consistency and having fun elements removed. Hunters have... nothing. Sounds like a wild expansion rofl
Feral Druids are collecting dust, Survival hunters don't exist, Shamans are also there (ok yh they made windfury a Spec ability instead of an spec talent which is a buff but still). Monks now are just glad that some of their abilities are turning into passive effects and fire Mages are rocking hard to "through the fire and the flames"
Its gonna be a wild xpack allright that i will miss if Warlock stays this bad. I main a Warlock and tho i have fun playing alts i don't wanna reroll my main. So if this goes through like this(which i highly doubt) i will just skip this xpack tbh.
I played arcane in df, downed razageth NM, got to Kuroc in HC. Got to +16 keys in M+, then quited. The rotation was not the problem, it was fucking cool. But to expect me to do the rotation and do mechanics was the bane of Arcane. If you started your burn face, you had 2 ice floess or 2 blinks to do mechanics, and that's it, in a burn face that takes 20sec of pure casting. And random mechanics that take me out of range of the boss killed my dps entirely until the next burn face. Still was top5 in dps out of 20 in my guild xD. Edit: Also seeing demo warlocks still do 65% of their dps no matter what because their pets, and dudus do instant cast mostly and jump arround while I'm grounded most of the encounter soured me great time.
I cant wait to see what they do for Frost DK, If they make it Viable in PvP then I know this will be once of my favorite expansions. Frost DK Rider of the Apocalypse sounds pretty good to me!
The problem with the choice node now between Shield of Vengeance and Aegis of Vengeance for a Paladin anyways. Is there is nothing that you need a 40 percent ER for as dps. If something is going to hit you hard enough that you need that high of a DR for. Might as well immune it with BoP or Bubble. 30 Percent DR as it is now is more than enough to allow you to survive the big hits. you follow that up with self healing so your healers and focus on other people. With this becoming a choice node now its nothing but an illusion of choice. Having a weaker 1 minute DR and a decent shield from Shield of Vengeance also on a 1 minute CD is better than have one or the other being stronger. So for me there is no choice at all. I'll still be running Shield of Vengeance so I can use it to mitigate, and then use my Divine Protection for a big it, and then I still have bubble for OH SH*T moments, or I need to double soak something that is only meant to be soaked once. I get that they are trying to tone down the defensives, but like I said above. If there is a hit that you need a 40 percent DR for you might as well bubble it. Now for pvp Maybe this will be better. If Savix wasn't a classic andy i'd say go ask him, but other than him I really don't know any other big named Retribution Paladins that pvp, mainly as PVP isn't my scene.
They really just need to uncomplicate the classes and slow down combat again. SoD has been feeling like a really nice steady pace, cooldowns feeling WAY more impactful, everything isnt as cluttered. Instead, we get so much shit to press off gcd so you can dps while you dps, cooldowns for days and they dont ever feel impactful, more like a means to an end to make the class work, and it feels like your class gameplay is more to keep you busy rather than feel powerful.
Actually... its the opposite where cooldowns feel too impactful in retail and your dmg outside of cooldowns dont feel strong. This is especially obvious in PVP
Couldn't disagree harder. Classic exists for exactly this reason. Retail has fast, slick, flashy gameplay; Classic has slow, methodical, tactical gameplay. I can go between both freely & love them both, but they shouldn't mix. No way I'm going back to "on next swing" attacks in retail lmao
@Shedovv it was announced 2 days ago, slightly later than this video was commenting on, but its horrendous that's all it noted for demo, 35% chance of a core down from 100%. Just hoping to see some positive changes to make it feel fun, because that's just more RNG 😅
Destruction Warlock main here: Removal of Avatar of Desturction is literally a spit in the face. Replacing it with Decimating Bolt is even worse, I don't know the words to describe how much a disgusting move that is. If I wanted to play Fire Mage, I would play fucking Fire Mage, which does not have to cast 10923810923891023 casted spell and still be mediocre in M+.
I actually really liked decimating bolt in Shadowlands, assuming it's similar I don't think that's such a bad thing, but avatar being removed made me super sad
ever since the removal of rune of power, Mage has been going in a CONSISTENTLY GOOD direction. maybe we've got some defensive bloat, even more than many other classes, and I wouldn't mind that being pruned back if they decided to do so. but otherwise, Mage has been a great class since the Dragonflight re-work (all specs!) Mage really does feel like the "main character" of WoW sometimes lol :D Good to be a long-time Mage player! We're eating well in TWW. edit: also, death to radiant spark is amazing! so glad it's being removed. it really should've been removed when Rune of Power was, but alas, it's all good at this point
I mean...arcane is really not THAT difficult. All it takes is setting up comfortable keybinds and after a while the muscle memory kicks in and it starts playing itself...while also being super fun while doing so. Yes you definitely can't just pick the spec up and expect to do well with it and that's probably what makes it a "difficult" one. However I do agree with every decision Blizz have made about arcane going forward. Those are some good changes for both new and veteran arcane players.
How about make balance druid enjoyable to play. It was a better play style in wrath. It felt good playing with hurricane and starfall just blasting some big aoe numbers. It made it feel like you were needed for large groups of adds. And it actually felt like you should have one in a group.
Demonology is already so shadowbolt heavy making it even worse is baffling. No one wants to primarily press their worst button, and most specs don't have to either. Why is there such a stick up the dev's asses over one caster spec having a moderate amount of mobility?
Want to rework ? Remove 90 % of procs that add complexity that only 20 years of playing nerds like (cause it adfs a wall in front of New players and make the nerd feel superior...) Remove 30 to 50 % of abilities (or make a lot of'em very situational) Stop making gameplay revolving around gestion of a brunch of short CDs it's exhausting and overwhelming... Add fun items to enhance situationnal gameplay as it used to be in the old days...
Poor hunter class has been abandoned the devs only work on the classes they play.. just look at how cool other classes hero tlents look and all the talent reworks...
Fuck yeah because even though Holy Priest for example gotten slightly better it's still basically shit and the worst part is, that if you are a creative person you can tell how much more it can be done, for most classes.
Fury needs a rework.we had several builds but one sucked, the other stood on the mountain throughout dragonflight, and rest were nonexistent because no one in their right mind will choose to play single minded fury.
Hey now, I saw 2 SMF this expansion... And 1 was our tank offspecing... Definitely agree with the redesign though. SMF and TG made way more sense when it was a choice node in DF beta (alpha?). Spending a point to have 1h weapons be weaker is... Not a great design.
@@stueyman2099 smf and flurry (iirc) was a hard requirement to even make it usable. The whole idea of smf was your damage was lower but your speed should be way faster and they split that into two talents for some reason
I'm a demolock main. i do not like the sound of these changes at all. the cadence of demolock is partially what made it so attractive as a spec, and having an army of little demons. I would've preferred a damage nerf, rather than nerfing the fantasy of the spec
Since classic I wished survival had the potential to be a tank or a melee depending on talents with a lot of choices for pvp and the combat should be a bit like a better version of a Dragoon of Final Fantasy Realm Reborn. I played survival the last time in legion it was fun but also weird I don’t know how it ist now but since DF we have the talents back there is an opportunity, I also wish they get rid of talents that only gives more damage just ad some flavor and change skills in a way that changes the gameplay completely. It’s maybe too much but Idk some specs feels uncreative for me.
Me: *spends about 4 years hoping Blizzard would add a way for Demo Locks to increase the Cap on the Demonic Core stacks one can have* Blizzard: *proceeds to do the exact opposite by nerfing how many Demonic Cores you can get* Me: Thank fuck its just Demonic Knowledge, for now... EDIT: Seriously though. I dont know about any of the other Locks but while the removal of Demonic Knowledge stings a bit. I am not at all bothered by Nether Portal being axed. I always liked it's idea, but I never felt it worth replacing anything else with it, before DF. And in DF, it feels like too much of an investment (4 points to get all relevant nodes) for what it does. With Diabolist being essentially a Nether Portal On Steroids, that is passive and being a Hero Talent Tree, not requiring any Specialization or Class Tree Investment for a similar kind of Gameplay and Flavor Effect. Is already all well and good. But when you add a Redesigned Doom ontop of it, that lets us add a Doom Guard(!!!) to our little demon army, something I havent seen Locks get to do since Legion(!), as well as some of the other node shuffling in the Spec Tree (finally I dont have to grant my Felgaurd - Annihilan Training, just so I can get my dogs, to buff my Shadowflame damage by 20%) the end result is an overall good set of changes, that only makes me excited to play my favourite Spellcaster Spec in the whole game again! Something that Dragonflight inherently lacked for Demo. Due to anything "new" on the talent tree being a transplant from the Soulbind system of Lands That Shall Not Be Named.
I hated nether portal, it was never implemented in a way that made sense and I'm not a big fan of 3 min cd's anyway but it was easy to have bad rng and it would be really bad for your damage if you had to move after using it As for the other changes, reducing the cores from demonic knowledge and then since then now dogs have a 35% chance to give a core, down from 100%.. it's going to feel extremely turrety but also a heavy reduction in the amount of imps and relying on another form of RNG hoping you get cores after the dogs. Very unfortunate changes, less of an army
i still wish they'd buff the amount of time beast cleave is up, i know they buffed it between df and shadowlands but just compared to the sepulcher set bonus it feels so bad oh shit they're giving paladins visions back from bfa - bfa sucked but man was shadowlands worse so that's why i look back at bfa with rose tinted glasses
I hope they rework enhance shaman. Way too many buttons and complex rotation. Been playing one since Wrath and after MoP they just keep getting more and more bloated with stupid shit
Shaman needs more survivability. Being squishy feels bad. They also need to buff lightning bolt and chain lightning. Lightning bolt never feels good to press honestly plus the animation needs updated badly.
probably when they bother to hire a dev to work on hunter, but the last one left during shadowlands, and hunter's been showed in to the corner ever since. And even back when there was atleast 1 dev, they job donne, was trash at best. The longer back in time you go, the better the hunter class is designed, that how much the class has devolved...
- well shouldn't arcane require more skill to play? i mean its ARCANE. of course its on the more difficult side. if there was a spec id assume was complex both from an RPG and from a new player perspective, is Arcane. "Arcane is so arcane, i dont understand it!" this same logic applies to Fury Warrior or Havoc DH, Fury should be easy to play, you should be able to play pissed tf off and do well, and Havoc, the same, but more eratic.+
Whats the problem? learning how to play a class/spec shouldn't be complex, it shouldn't be the challenge, the content should be! I just hope streamers and competitive meta players dont get a say in the direction of class design.
I'd wager they do, will, and forever shall. Appealing to streamers is how they generate any intrigue for their games, and considering WoW is the last golden calf they have before the slaughter, whatever the streamers preach and post will most certainly have an effect on the changes and balancing of the class system.
They change classes that are fine and ignore classes that need help Shaman, hunter, balance Druid all need looking at but warlock mage and spriest getting good stuff yet again :/
Spriest had Voidform gutted because some dev didn't like it and spent all DF spamming Power Infusion and Shadow Crash. Also, I guess you don't play lock, but without exaggeration the lock TWW changes translate to "we want you to cast Shadowbolt and imps are a CD now". Mage was also the worst class in the game from Legion until 10.1. I agree that Shaman Hunter and Balance are shot but man you couldn't be more wrong about the special treatment. TWW alpha killed 2 lock specs and Shadow got shafted as hard as balance going into DF. The Golden Children are DKs, DH, Warrior and Ret
As a warlock main, no we are not getting a good rework at all. Destro and Demo got worse with these reworks and most of us want this shit reverted or changed again. GL on your class reworks when u get them, you will need it lol.
@@jethrodark2372 lol Bellular actually showed one of my tweets in this vid about Demo. I've made as much noise as I can but I just don't think they care
This is so dumb...coming from an arcane mage, they need to just leave our spec alone. Those of us that play it are happy with the current iteration, and for those that want to play it, LEARN HOW TO READ. Practice on dummies like everyone else....like wtf
20th mage rework and the only thing shaman got so far are 2 hero trees that look like they put together in 5 minutes and not even working.
Bro do you play Ele? We getting it rough boi lmao
@@Dofladingus it's just so disappointing, everything that we get just feels so lack luster
it's so depressing as an Ele Shaman main lol, I can't lie
They took all the elemental power from retail and gave it to SoD ele shamans.
Same with warrior, there are a core group of meta specs that get constant attention - mages, priests, locks........any other DPS can forget about it.
I don't really play Demonology, but even so I don't like these changes. If the fundamental problem the devs have with Demo is that it's too OP because once you summon your demons, they do their dmg automatically without any further input from you, thus not only giving you too much mobility, but also freeing you too much so you can do whatever you want, then maybe address this from a different perspective. Make this pet class unique using its fantasy.
I would add some spells that create portals that summon demons. But instead of those being just cast and done, those portals will stay on the ground for some time, and the Warlock needs to support them and strengthen them with specialized spells. You could even make it so those support spells need to be casted and deal no damage, but as a result, the demons will be stronger.
And even make it so that once the demons are summoned, you still need to tend to them. Because they want to break free from your control, so they will either boringly despawn or sometimes attack you or your allies if not properly dominated. And to balance this additional management effort, you could make the demons do really a lot of damage.
This would solve the alleged problem that Warlock has too much movement. It also could solve the the alleged problem with resources and too much demonbolt.
I don’t think they’d implement that last part about them turning on allies, I get the high risk high reward factor, but it would become problematic for group content if you make a mistake in your rotation effectively making it less likely to receive invites for said content. I do like the idea though, but I feel the community just wouldn’t take to it very well.
@@fwam2k7 Maybe then the demon only turns on you, not allies. Like when Shadow Priests had the talent that would give them Void form and then kill them. Only this wouldn't kill you with certainty, only if you made a huge mistake. And allies wouldn't take friendly fire.
Demo main here just popping in to say: we already cast Shadowbolt a lot. These changes guarantee it'll be 90% of our rotation. Shadowbolt getting buffed in an unacceptable solution, Demonology's main goal must always be to summon more demons and have 95% of your DPS come from summon. There is no middle ground in this. We either summon demons, or rework us into something completely different, but nobody will be content with HoG feeling like a big cooldown
EDIT: this is NOT about mobility. It is about changing us from a summoner to a worse Destro. We should never be doing most of our damage from direct cast spells
I thought with hero talents even more summons happen. It seemed that from other video previews I’ve seen
@@slanderpop8771 What we're gaining from Diabolist we're losing 2 fold from our spec tree. In DF, your main goal is summoning as many imps as possible. The TWW alpha changes will, no exaggerating, have you cast 3 Shadowbolt before you can even use Hand of Guldan. You'll probably be able to get 5 imps up max.
Oh, they also removed Nether Portal. So basically rotation in TWW now is SB>SB>Hounds>SB>Stalker>SB>SB>SB>SB>Hand of Guldan>SB>SB>Hand of Guldan repeat
@@Dofladingus to top it off, we share Diabolist stuff with Destro, lmao. IMO all the Diabolist stuff should be baseline for Demon if they are removing Nether Portal.
Make a new hero class on top of that, preferably one that doesn't take all the spec fantasy and give it to Destro.
Don't forget also with these changes immutable hatred is nerfed to because it goes off of demonic core procs oof.
completely disagree.
demo has only been about demonic armies since bfa, pre-rework it was all about *enhancing* demons, tyrant is much more in theme with demo than anything else in the spec. pre demon hunter we were full of casts, molten core, incinerate, etc. in classic and tbc demo was just all things demon and i would actually prefer it goes back to that.
demo has completely forgotten about the main cast of demons we already had in favor of new demons, demo and aff use felhunter, succ, blueberry, and imp more than we do and we are supposed to be demon specialized. even in DF there are remnants of our past, teachings of the black harvest in the class tree is entirely about demon empowerment and is *worthless* to demo because we would never summon anything but felguard and all they get is pursuit range and cd...
demo strayed away from what it was meam to be a long time ago, not now.
Man I’m desperate for them to rework frost and unholy so bad.
Same. Sad wounds are still a thing. Frost in general is a terrible mess.
@@Blood_Ronin Frost needs a new type of way to move and do damage i was thinking more like ice damage in a way of applying cold in a way of bleeds and have a great rotation on top of it and making icy pathj to slide thru faster we want class fantasy make me sub zero or something invent more
@@Klaidas21DND needs to go for frost and Remorseless winter should be the skill that enables your cleave. That way you can move around without worrying about positioning.
I’ve hated BoS since its inception, it’s way too reliant on tank positioning and in high keys it’s pretty much a dud. One mess up on the rotation and you’re pretty much a wet noodle until it’s all back up again. Glacial advance is super unsatisfying to press as well, all these classes have super cool animations and we get nothing. It just needs so so much work. I’m generally happy with unholy, but it takes way too long to actually ramp up the damage compared to other classes that can blast higher than us in a fraction of the time.
@@fwam2k7 unholy feels so much better in cata, i had forgotten how snappy the one sec GCD felt on dk with unholy presence
Unholy desperately needs a rework. FAR too much button bloat, the 3 min burst stuff needs redesigned. I've never played frost because it doesn't look fun, so, I guess that also needs a rework lol.
There was also a broken way to play frost mage in Warlords. You could literally keep Icy Veins up through an entire boss fight just by casting Ice Lance repeatedly. You'd burst your normal rotation, let icy veins get down to about 2 or 3 seconds left, and then continue to ice Lance until you recharge it to full timer and then unload again.
I am really liking Blizzard after the sale to Microsoft. No more BS about gating flying, great events for transmogs... just loving it.
yh that is now sadly the only recent good acquisition...........................
Since this post went out they also reduced the chance when a dog dies you now have 35% chance (down from 100% per dog to get a demonic core.
This further reduces the amount of imps you can have at any one time, and relies on even more RNG.
Reducing the amount of imps also reduces your AOE heavily, so unless imps gain a damage buff both from casting and from imploding, this wont feel very fun.
At this point the spec needs a real overhaul, not a partial change every other patch
Can’t wait to see them commit more fuckery to brewmaster next expansion because they really have it out for all 10 people that play the fuckin thing.
Demo main here....we ve been kicked down under for being too fun.
Apparently you wanted to actually be a demonbolt warlock and not a demon warlock
@@OhNoTheFace reducing casts of demonbolt directly nerfs our amount of demons we can summon. it ruins the fantasy of the spec
@OhNoTheFace ah darn I read it wrong all this time. Sadness commencing :(
@trustytraitor it ruins the literally core of the spec entirely. Only thing I can assume is the demons need to be more powerful to compensate, and mobility will still be a bit worse
at least you aint MM hunter :X
survival hunter tier is still broken lol
Yeah Bellular, fix the survival tier
They abandoned the hunter class.
@@kishin9 well, it's been multiple years now, without a hunter dev, so that checks out
@@gampie13 Yup they had so much time to hire one but they didn't.
Ohhh I remember those days of 170% mastery on ele + the talent to overload a second time.
Was PEAK fun. Hoping stormbringer feels the same! Especially since it's coupled with free stormkeeper heh.
i'm perplexed by the removal of nether tempest! was nice to have a button for movement, and might decrease the value of arcane echo a lot not to have it. but ig if you're actually casting missiles into totm maybe it will balance out
I enjoyed arcane during nathria. I didn’t feel like it was overly complicated back then. More involved but nothing like it is today. If I got my nathria era arcane back I would be happy and switch back.
A rework would be a bit more groundbreaking, like giving sword-melee moves to a Mage, giving dagger-moves to a Priest, and giving rifle-moves to a Warrior. They can all wield those weapons but never use them, because the builds offer no imaginative flexibility beyond what pool you draw from (mana, energy, rage, etc.).
This is more like repainting to me, and for some specs, it's not a very good job.
"No other spec has remotely this close" yeah im sure assa rogues just make their 25sec opener in mele easier than arcane 😅
They keep trying to do shadowbolt with Demo, but the last time that was more attached to the spec was when it had demon form. It really makes you feel nothing as Demo now that it's not about shadow and flame anymore. By the way, why is nether portal not the imp mechanic? Why imps? :P
Also to edit, I must say I love 45sec-1min cds. It feels great.
For the love of god, why does Blizzard pretend Shaman doesn't exist.
Im freaking in love with that Fire mage and WW talent trees changes. I usually dont play Mage but that new Fire tree + hero talents(orbs + phoenix) has sold it to me. WW i played alot in recent years but it became boring cuz the Tree always stayed the same, no proper option for different builds. Now (or in TWW)i finally have some proper options to choose in terms of playstyle and also to mix up with Tier Sets. I still hope Shamans get more options too.
Mages are just getting better. Warlocks are getting frustrated with gameplay losing consistency and having fun elements removed. Hunters have... nothing.
Sounds like a wild expansion rofl
Feral Druids are collecting dust, Survival hunters don't exist, Shamans are also there (ok yh they made windfury a Spec ability instead of an spec talent which is a buff but still).
Monks now are just glad that some of their abilities are turning into passive effects and fire Mages are rocking hard to "through the fire and the flames"
Its gonna be a wild xpack allright that i will miss if Warlock stays this bad. I main a Warlock and tho i have fun playing alts i don't wanna reroll my main. So if this goes through like this(which i highly doubt) i will just skip this xpack tbh.
stop shitting your pants bruv, Warlock and hunter will be one of the best dps classes again, as every Expansion.
They abandoned the hunter class they only work on classes they play..
I played arcane in df, downed razageth NM, got to Kuroc in HC. Got to +16 keys in M+, then quited. The rotation was not the problem, it was fucking cool. But to expect me to do the rotation and do mechanics was the bane of Arcane. If you started your burn face, you had 2 ice floess or 2 blinks to do mechanics, and that's it, in a burn face that takes 20sec of pure casting. And random mechanics that take me out of range of the boss killed my dps entirely until the next burn face. Still was top5 in dps out of 20 in my guild xD.
Edit: Also seeing demo warlocks still do 65% of their dps no matter what because their pets, and dudus do instant cast mostly and jump arround while I'm grounded most of the encounter soured me great time.
Bye Radient spark hated that relic from shadowlands. Not sad at all.
PWave next? 🤞
I cant wait to see what they do for Frost DK, If they make it Viable in PvP then I know this will be once of my favorite expansions. Frost DK Rider of the Apocalypse sounds pretty good to me!
This video: Here's the long Arcane spec rotation and how it's nuts.
Me: hehehe arcane barrage go boom
The problem with the choice node now between Shield of Vengeance and Aegis of Vengeance for a Paladin anyways. Is there is nothing that you need a 40 percent ER for as dps. If something is going to hit you hard enough that you need that high of a DR for. Might as well immune it with BoP or Bubble. 30 Percent DR as it is now is more than enough to allow you to survive the big hits. you follow that up with self healing so your healers and focus on other people. With this becoming a choice node now its nothing but an illusion of choice. Having a weaker 1 minute DR and a decent shield from Shield of Vengeance also on a 1 minute CD is better than have one or the other being stronger.
So for me there is no choice at all. I'll still be running Shield of Vengeance so I can use it to mitigate, and then use my Divine Protection for a big it, and then I still have bubble for OH SH*T moments, or I need to double soak something that is only meant to be soaked once.
I get that they are trying to tone down the defensives, but like I said above. If there is a hit that you need a 40 percent DR for you might as well bubble it. Now for pvp Maybe this will be better. If Savix wasn't a classic andy i'd say go ask him, but other than him I really don't know any other big named Retribution Paladins that pvp, mainly as PVP isn't my scene.
They really just need to uncomplicate the classes and slow down combat again. SoD has been feeling like a really nice steady pace, cooldowns feeling WAY more impactful, everything isnt as cluttered.
Instead, we get so much shit to press off gcd so you can dps while you dps, cooldowns for days and they dont ever feel impactful, more like a means to an end to make the class work, and it feels like your class gameplay is more to keep you busy rather than feel powerful.
Actually... its the opposite where cooldowns feel too impactful in retail and your dmg outside of cooldowns dont feel strong. This is especially obvious in PVP
Couldn't disagree harder. Classic exists for exactly this reason. Retail has fast, slick, flashy gameplay; Classic has slow, methodical, tactical gameplay. I can go between both freely & love them both, but they shouldn't mix. No way I'm going back to "on next swing" attacks in retail lmao
@Shedovv it was announced 2 days ago, slightly later than this video was commenting on, but its horrendous that's all it noted for demo, 35% chance of a core down from 100%. Just hoping to see some positive changes to make it feel fun, because that's just more RNG 😅
Dude, it's every other expansion demo gets reworked or over haul.
Destruction Warlock main here: Removal of Avatar of Desturction is literally a spit in the face. Replacing it with Decimating Bolt is even worse, I don't know the words to describe how much a disgusting move that is. If I wanted to play Fire Mage, I would play fucking Fire Mage, which does not have to cast 10923810923891023 casted spell and still be mediocre in M+.
I actually really liked decimating bolt in Shadowlands, assuming it's similar I don't think that's such a bad thing, but avatar being removed made me super sad
They do all these changes for other classes.
But they can't be bothered to make Single-Minded Fury baseline.
ever since the removal of rune of power, Mage has been going in a CONSISTENTLY GOOD direction. maybe we've got some defensive bloat, even more than many other classes, and I wouldn't mind that being pruned back if they decided to do so. but otherwise, Mage has been a great class since the Dragonflight re-work (all specs!)
Mage really does feel like the "main character" of WoW sometimes lol :D Good to be a long-time Mage player! We're eating well in TWW.
edit: also, death to radiant spark is amazing! so glad it's being removed. it really should've been removed when Rune of Power was, but alas, it's all good at this point
I mean...arcane is really not THAT difficult. All it takes is setting up comfortable keybinds and after a while the muscle memory kicks in and it starts playing itself...while also being super fun while doing so. Yes you definitely can't just pick the spec up and expect to do well with it and that's probably what makes it a "difficult" one. However I do agree with every decision Blizz have made about arcane going forward. Those are some good changes for both new and veteran arcane players.
How about make balance druid enjoyable to play. It was a better play style in wrath. It felt good playing with hurricane and starfall just blasting some big aoe numbers. It made it feel like you were needed for large groups of adds. And it actually felt like you should have one in a group.
Demonology is already so shadowbolt heavy making it even worse is baffling. No one wants to primarily press their worst button, and most specs don't have to either. Why is there such a stick up the dev's asses over one caster spec having a moderate amount of mobility?
I definitely support making this class easier.
Want to rework ?
Remove 90 % of procs that add complexity that only 20 years of playing nerds like (cause it adfs a wall in front of New players and make the nerd feel superior...)
Remove 30 to 50 % of abilities (or make a lot of'em very situational)
Stop making gameplay revolving around gestion of a brunch of short CDs it's exhausting and overwhelming...
Add fun items to enhance situationnal gameplay as it used to be in the old days...
They keep buffing melee and nerfing castors
Poor hunter class has been abandoned the devs only work on the classes they play.. just look at how cool other classes hero tlents look and all the talent reworks...
Fuck yeah because even though Holy Priest for example gotten slightly better it's still basically shit and the worst part is, that if you are a creative person you can tell how much more it can be done, for most classes.
Fury needs a rework.we had several builds but one sucked, the other stood on the mountain throughout dragonflight, and rest were nonexistent because no one in their right mind will choose to play single minded fury.
Hey now, I saw 2 SMF this expansion...
And 1 was our tank offspecing...
Definitely agree with the redesign though. SMF and TG made way more sense when it was a choice node in DF beta (alpha?). Spending a point to have 1h weapons be weaker is... Not a great design.
@@stueyman2099 smf and flurry (iirc) was a hard requirement to even make it usable. The whole idea of smf was your damage was lower but your speed should be way faster and they split that into two talents for some reason
Unholy DK is kinda like this. I hope that gets reworked.
I'm a demolock main. i do not like the sound of these changes at all. the cadence of demolock is partially what made it so attractive as a spec, and having an army of little demons. I would've preferred a damage nerf, rather than nerfing the fantasy of the spec
i was begging for arcane mage rework in patch 1 of DF glad its finally here, the class felt terrible and unplayable, so i had to switch.
Please rework survival hunter
Since classic I wished survival had the potential to be a tank or a melee depending on talents with a lot of choices for pvp and the combat should be a bit like a better version of a Dragoon of Final Fantasy Realm Reborn. I played survival the last time in legion it was fun but also weird I don’t know how it ist now but since DF we have the talents back there is an opportunity, I also wish they get rid of talents that only gives more damage just ad some flavor and change skills in a way that changes the gameplay completely. It’s maybe too much but Idk some specs feels uncreative for me.
Need range surv back mobile lone wolf hunter spec... and melee surv as 4th spec.
Me: *spends about 4 years hoping Blizzard would add a way for Demo Locks to increase the Cap on the Demonic Core stacks one can have*
Blizzard: *proceeds to do the exact opposite by nerfing how many Demonic Cores you can get*
Me: Thank fuck its just Demonic Knowledge, for now...
EDIT: Seriously though. I dont know about any of the other Locks but while the removal of Demonic Knowledge stings a bit. I am not at all bothered by Nether Portal being axed. I always liked it's idea, but I never felt it worth replacing anything else with it, before DF. And in DF, it feels like too much of an investment (4 points to get all relevant nodes) for what it does.
With Diabolist being essentially a Nether Portal On Steroids, that is passive and being a Hero Talent Tree, not requiring any Specialization or Class Tree Investment for a similar kind of Gameplay and Flavor Effect. Is already all well and good. But when you add a Redesigned Doom ontop of it, that lets us add a Doom Guard(!!!) to our little demon army, something I havent seen Locks get to do since Legion(!), as well as some of the other node shuffling in the Spec Tree (finally I dont have to grant my Felgaurd - Annihilan Training, just so I can get my dogs, to buff my Shadowflame damage by 20%) the end result is an overall good set of changes, that only makes me excited to play my favourite Spellcaster Spec in the whole game again! Something that Dragonflight inherently lacked for Demo. Due to anything "new" on the talent tree being a transplant from the Soulbind system of Lands That Shall Not Be Named.
I hated nether portal, it was never implemented in a way that made sense and I'm not a big fan of 3 min cd's anyway but it was easy to have bad rng and it would be really bad for your damage if you had to move after using it
As for the other changes, reducing the cores from demonic knowledge and then since then now dogs have a 35% chance to give a core, down from 100%.. it's going to feel extremely turrety but also a heavy reduction in the amount of imps and relying on another form of RNG hoping you get cores after the dogs. Very unfortunate changes, less of an army
@@MindOfTim I somehow missed the part that the dogs dont have 100% Core Chance now. That is utterly disgusting! Time to grab my pitchfork!
i still wish they'd buff the amount of time beast cleave is up, i know they buffed it between df and shadowlands but just compared to the sepulcher set bonus it feels so bad
oh shit they're giving paladins visions back from bfa - bfa sucked but man was shadowlands worse so that's why i look back at bfa with rose tinted glasses
I have 10k hours in wow and I still don’t know how to play arcane. It’s the only spec in the game I can’t optimally play.
I'm an Arcane Mage. Help.
Both the resto druid talents need to be reworked. Not about underpowered or not, they just look incredibly boring.
For the love of god, tell them to rework Shaman
I mean when Legion came DH ruined everything until they remake everything and bring it up to dhs level
so blizz destorying demo cool i hope ret paladin get the same treatment too
According to the comments pretty much every spec needs to be reworked lol.
Frost dk still being ignored 😢
BM Hunter hasn't really changed much since Legion. War Within Gear looks awful. The Hunter Devs probably have their feet on the desk doing nowt.
They abandoned the class it's over...
just want to point out, there has not actually been a hunter dev at blizz, since the last one quit in shadowlands years ago...
All the tier look horrible I don't like the mage nor the warlock nor hunter all bad bad bad
@@jessicahampton4581 What's worse is there is actually a really good one - Evoker.... that no one sees when they're in Dracthyr form 🤣
Classic player here. Glad to see blizzard hates all warlocks and not just classic warlocks
Please can they just make Roll The Bones a passive chance… nobody enjoys pressing that button
They should rework Feral. seriously that shit is just old and clunky.
Demo changes suck, they are killing the spec
I hope they rework enhance shaman. Way too many buttons and complex rotation. Been playing one since Wrath and after MoP they just keep getting more and more bloated with stupid shit
It’s still peacecraft woke land
they should just make survival ranged again nobody wants to play a melee hunter
Blizzard rework then shortly after nerf the balls out of a spec, then it ends up just as bad as it was pre rework.
Shaman needs more survivability. Being squishy feels bad. They also need to buff lightning bolt and chain lightning. Lightning bolt never feels good to press honestly plus the animation needs updated badly.
Any warriors in the comments?
Where the fuck are the hunter reworks??? Jesus H Christ
probably when they bother to hire a dev to work on hunter, but the last one left during shadowlands, and hunter's been showed in to the corner ever since. And even back when there was atleast 1 dev, they job donne, was trash at best.
The longer back in time you go, the better the hunter class is designed, that how much the class has devolved...
- well shouldn't arcane require more skill to play? i mean its ARCANE. of course its on the more difficult side. if there was a spec id assume was complex both from an RPG and from a new player perspective, is Arcane. "Arcane is so arcane, i dont understand it!" this same logic applies to Fury Warrior or Havoc DH, Fury should be easy to play, you should be able to play pissed tf off and do well, and Havoc, the same, but more eratic.+
I know how to play fire I know how to play frost I want to play arcane now..if they can just dumb it down so I could play it
Whats the problem? learning how to play a class/spec shouldn't be complex, it shouldn't be the challenge, the content should be!
I just hope streamers and competitive meta players dont get a say in the direction of class design.
I'd wager they do, will, and forever shall. Appealing to streamers is how they generate any intrigue for their games, and considering WoW is the last golden calf they have before the slaughter, whatever the streamers preach and post will most certainly have an effect on the changes and balancing of the class system.
They change classes that are fine and ignore classes that need help
Shaman, hunter, balance Druid all need looking at but warlock mage and spriest getting good stuff yet again :/
Spriest had Voidform gutted because some dev didn't like it and spent all DF spamming Power Infusion and Shadow Crash. Also, I guess you don't play lock, but without exaggeration the lock TWW changes translate to "we want you to cast Shadowbolt and imps are a CD now". Mage was also the worst class in the game from Legion until 10.1.
I agree that Shaman Hunter and Balance are shot but man you couldn't be more wrong about the special treatment. TWW alpha killed 2 lock specs and Shadow got shafted as hard as balance going into DF. The Golden Children are DKs, DH, Warrior and Ret
As a warlock main, no we are not getting a good rework at all. Destro and Demo got worse with these reworks and most of us want this shit reverted or changed again. GL on your class reworks when u get them, you will need it lol.
@@jethrodark2372 lock main as well and we're so screwed I'm giving up on the class lmao. I will say though, Hunters are still even shittier than us
@@Dofladingus Yup, tell Blizz to revert the changes and move on to hunter lol. Tho they will probly screw them up even worse haha.
@@jethrodark2372 lol Bellular actually showed one of my tweets in this vid about Demo. I've made as much noise as I can but I just don't think they care
This is so dumb...coming from an arcane mage, they need to just leave our spec alone. Those of us that play it are happy with the current iteration, and for those that want to play it, LEARN HOW TO READ. Practice on dummies like everyone else....like wtf
Arcane isnt complicated at all. People just dont want to spend a few minutes reading and practicing on dummies