Dave Filoni’s description of balance shows why he has become the Master of the Force
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
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Honestly, Ahsoka and Qui Gon Jinn are the epitome of what a Jedi should be.
Yoda sucks lol
Also Obi-Wan!
General Kenobi, Commander Tano, and Master Hippie are the ultimate Jedi.
personally, I think Kanan and Qui Gon Jinn are the only two who truly embodied what a Jedi should be.
Luke learned to use his passion for good, when the Jedi were too afraid to grow. QuiGon walked so Luke could run.
Ashoka just doesn’t believe in the Jedi order she still believes in the light side of the force. I don’t know why people think she’s a Grey Jedi.
Exactlyyyy
@@emberfist8347 and her silver fucking lightsabers guys
@@zachary8249 Which becomes unintentionally funny when you look up how those are made in the new lore.
@@mpnuorva by bleeding a Sith crystal basically yeah lol
Exactly!
To use a body analogy, the light side is like your immune system, keeping things in balance and healthy. It should only act in defense and if it gets too aggressive it can do harm while trying to do good.
When the cure becomes the disease. Very well said.
The dose makes the poison.
My poor bffs immune system is very much gone the dark side then lolol
the dark side is like steroids. It's a quick and easy way to build muscle but it make you rage.
And it's not at all ironic then that your immune system could not exist if not for your digestive system which is chuck full of incredibly harmful bacteria that were your stomach lining to rupture would absolutely overwhelm your immune system.
Remember, Grogu isn’t the only one to use force choke. Luke too used it in “Jedi”
So did Anakin in the Clone Wars multiple times.
Ahsoka also used it when she was hunted by Trandoshans in "Padawan Lost"
Also giving it an alinment is stupid. Its just force based telekinesis applied to the windpipe.
Force push and wall or off a cliff for the same effect and same level of morality
Interesting. It’s almost as if she taught Luke that ability
@@thomasjeppesen3055 doubtful, Like thesunken said it all just feats of telekinesis. If you now how to grab something than you should know how to choke something as well.
Also Force Choke is not an inherent dark side technique since it's basically using the force to grab at someone's neck...
"Acting out of anger offers quick results but it's a trap" -Kanan Jarrus
Indeed. There are many times throughout their lives, where Ahsoka and Obi-Wan, and hell even Yoda, could have used abilities in the dark side, and fall on their anger; but they don't, they step back from the precipice, as they see the danger they are in, and react in the right manner. Thats what marks a true Jedi.
I just can't take that character seriously after "star wars is for fucking kids"
@Zhong Ping Yeah, Kanan is one of my favourite star wars characters, even though the voice actor's kinda a prick.
“Make no friendship with an angry man; and with a furious man thou shalt not go:
Lest thou learn his ways, and get a snare to thy soul.”
Proverbs 22:24-25
Yeah dont get offended that ashoka is called a gray jedi lol
Thor: the darkside doesn't offer more power
Sheev: but it does offer... UNLIMITED POWER
UN-LIMITED. POWAAAAAH!! Long Live the Empire! Long Live uncle palpytine
@@tatters6623 lol
So... the dark side’s power is a smaller infinity 😆
UNLIMITAH POWAAHHHH
Palps: "DEW IT!!!!!"
Again Filoni shows why he is George's successor. His description of the balance is exactly what Lucas was explaining all these years ago.
Grey Jedi is just a term some writers are using to have it both ways instead of how it is in black and white.
Honestly the force sounds like AIKIDO..!
Honestly the force sounds like AIKIDO martial philosophy...!🥋
The Light Side is working in tandem, and compromising with the Force. It's letting the Force be your master. The Dark Side is hurting the Force, and bending it to your will. It's trying to be the Force's master.
@Alex'Y Exactly! And the fans for years have been unable to accept what balance actually means, even arguing against what Lucas himself has said (despite him being the person who actually created it). Glad that Filoni gets it, and is trying to explain it to the stubborn or simply misinformed fans.
Ahsoka may not be a Jedi but she is pure light. She even has The Daughters life essence.
That’s why that owl is always following her, she’s the most light sided one can be
And her alias is Ashla, Lucas's own original term for the light side.
@@shugaroony I think her concept name was Ashla. Because her alias is Fulcrum.
@@sirbedevere4944 actually, before becoming Fulcrum, when she was in hiding after Order 66, she used Ashla as an alias iirc.
@@O-P-96 is this from a book?
In the game Knights of the Old Republic (KOTOR) 2, there was an item called Gray Jedi Robes. The item description always summed up my view of Gray Jedi pretty perfectly. "Gray Jedi are those who, though having completed the teachings of the Jedi, operate independently and outside of the Jedi Council. They are typically seen as misguided, though they have not necessarily succumbed to the dark side." It was a matter of affiliation, not use of the dark side, and I honestly thought this was a great idea. In this sense, Ahsoka is a Gray Jedi because she operates outside the order and the council's authority, but she is simultaneously a paragon of what a Jedi should be. And honestly, I'm so happy we're not going down the line of trying to justify someone "combining" the light and dark sides of the force.
KOTOR II is non canon therefore grey jedi remain Legends.
Imagine if Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni wrote and directed the Sequels.
We would have 3 good Star Wars movies... I want that timeline.
@@nickwilson3499 Me too, man. Me too. We might have gotten some of the greatest Star Wars movies of all time if they had directed the Sequels. But instead we got a flaming garbage pile mess. Why can't we have nice things?!
I can't believe Lucas ever put his trust in anyone in Hollywood. He sold his company with a gentleman's promise that his movies would be made. But he should've known that there's no such thing in Hollywood, even among best friends.
imagine if anyone else directed the sequals XD
@Sam Ross, Don't do that, don't give hope for what could have been.
What's funny is that even in Legends, "gray Jedi" was never really a thing. The closest thing we get is Jolee Bindo saying "I see more gray than light or dark."
Just replayed that game. Now to kotor 2!
I freaking love that game
Even then Jolee was still a light side user
Joruus C'baoth was neither good nor evil, just insane
@@emberfist8347 But Luke didn't sense the dark side in him
I feel balance isn’t using both, but more of accepting that the dark will always exist and staying aware of its presence without using it
Absolutely. That was highlighted beautifully in the Yoda Clone Wars arc (in season six).
I think that is the correct depiction. Also if you look at the EU, there aren't really lots of examples of Jedi using the Dark and Light simultaneusly. The only media where such thing was showcased was in SWTOR and we all know how that game messed up the lore (though, of course, not as much as the Sequels).
@Lionard Kirsch Yeah. I feel that those comics had great potential to explore what @Lazerman said along with the obscure Rakata species. But then again, they took the simplistic route and just said that the Jedi of old used both sides because I guess that the writers thought that "more" equals "better" (missing the entire point of what being a Jedi truly means).
Without a dark side and people who use the dark side, you'd have no one using the light side. You have to have both in order for there to be balance. The force is not a tangible thing you can grasp in your hand. You can feel it but you can not touch it. There for the force cannot be dark or light. The force is the force. The way someone wields the force determines whether it's on the light side or dark side. Each person that uses the force will learn to balance it within themselves. Which is why I'd say Ani found balance right before his death. Ahsoka also knows there's darkness in everyone. But she also knows that even if your all the way into the dark side there's still a tiny light in there. Which is why she doesn't give up on Ani
@@twodumbgamers9285 well said and I agree with you
When i asked a friend what the grey knights were, they explained that they were light side users without the religious/monk aspect, and thats how i always thought of it.
It's really just edgelords who hate the very notion of respecting authority, and would all basically say Anakin was right in episode 3 if it weren't for the whole youngling thing...
Just because the Jedi Order was flawed, doesn't mean that being more like the Sith is the right answer...
@@davidtucker9498 thats not how grey knights are...they just use the force in subtler ways like augmenting natural average abilities you’d expect non force users to have. Luke wasn’t too different from a grey knight/paladin before he got training from yoda.
The dark side is like an addiction, as soon as you start down the path it consumes you. Similarly to an addiction you can overcome it, but only those who really commit themselves do. There is no middle ground
Yeah I've thought the same thing,mara jade said that in legends
Okay so like an addictive substance careful and moderated use is fine.
If we want to use that analogy academic grey jedi make a lot of sence.
@@OrDuneStudios But that's the thing the dark side isn't moderate it'll make you want to use it more and more.I'm guessing that's what the point of lucas idea of it,I think it's more of Conquering the darkness inside of you.
@@thegoat4238
Like Mace Windu and his shatter point? Mace wanted to use the darkside more?
@@genoveus maybe maybe it's a bit plot hole on that thing for me
I’ve been saying this for sooo long!!! Ahsoka is the epitome of what a Jedi should be. The line “I am no Jedi” got taken wayyyyy out of context by so many people.
She doesn't want to be attached to the failures and hypocrisy of the Jedi Council
@@Brandon.S.Brooker That's what I've been saying,
@@thegoat4238 *How many more lies have I been told by the fandom?*
@@Brandon.S.Brooker too many I'm afraid
@@emberfist8347 Well they claim to serve the people and peace but near the end of the war they put politics first, restraining emotions for some like Luminara further driving them away from selflessness and serving the people, and as a whole the Jedi became very prideful and rigid on following their own ways, and Mace Windu is one example.
Hell he even proves a hypocrite when he says that their mistake in Ahsoka's judgement and staying out of it instead of defending her, was the Force "working in mysterious ways" instead of admitting this mistake as Plo Koon did. So that would be a lack of humility as well.
Further examples are Jedi like Jocasta Nu's pride in her library thinking their knowledge is absolute.
Ki-Adi-Mundi's strict adherence to logic making him and other Jedi slow to seeing the return of the Sith and Dooku's turn to the dark side, and we all know Obi Wan failed Anakin, he could have confronted Anakin earlier about his love for Padme and fear of loss but chose to just turn a blind eye cause he cared for him too much.
Oh and speaking of Anakin they never bothered to council him on his natural emotions of missing his mother and fear of loss when she died. And Yoda's advice wasn't helpful saying any death is natural. So in this case they lack compassion in their wisdom.
And then there are some number of fallen Jedi who either drove themselves to either extremes of philosophy, Barris betraying the Jedi as she thought they were consumed by violence (she is somewhat right though the war going on leave them no choice).
As a whole if they weren't fallen or killed in battle the Jedi were a largely flawed by this time, in some ways prideful or oblivious to the threats of the Sith and too afraid of the Dark side to try and understand it to counter it.
There are still some wise Jedi among them (and the ones i stated also had much good in them) but they were also held down by the Council's decisions and ways.
So in a way the Jedi order was already falling to their own dark side imbalance and individuals were fracturing.
Sorry if this is long its kind of a history/lore thing.
Dave Faloni is the way and should have been the way from the beginning.
Kathleen " Darth Vaginus " Kennedy : " I AM LUCASFILM. "
@@AlexYBITW Dave Filoni: And I.....Am All the Fans.
Dave Filoni is the Kevin feigie in the Star Wars universe, the only different thing is that he is not in charge while Kevin is 😂
@@AlexYBITW Jon Favreau: NOT YET
@@noahplaysgames4933 🤣
As Obi Wan said at the end of Revenge of the Sith
"It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them. That you would bring balance to the force not leave it in darkness."
If a balanced force is grey, equal parts light and dark, then why is destroying the Sith required to bring balance to the force?
Obi Wan was educated by the Jedi. He was repeating a prophecy he himself didn't fully understand. It could be argued (from a certain POV) that Anakin DID balance The Force in the end, by serving both sides and helping to destroy the dominant power each time. He was Jedi who became Sith and helped destroy the Jedi/Republic which brought Death, Destruction, and Darkness, and then as a Sith he died a Heroic Death, one which killed the Emperor and brought about the downfall of The Empire/Sith, and created a New Era of Peace. Each "side" had their time to rule and be dominant.
Perhaps the next Era IS one that balances The Light and The Darkness at the same time.
@@jeangentry6656 George said that Anakin brought balance to the force by completely destroying the dark side turning back to the light and destroying Sideous. Stupid JJ Abrams had new clue about what starwars is about brought back the darkside confusing a lot of casual fans on what balance means.
Look at the Bendu and Mortis Gods. The Darkside isn’t pure evil. The universe needs both the Dark and Light to exist. If that wasn’t the case then the Father would have killed the Son long before the Daughter was killed.
@Ryan Connolly Care to tell us why instead of just saying "wrong" and leaving?
@@emberfist8347 but only siths see the world in absolutes... so perhaps only light, aka only selflessness, isnt balanced, as well as only darkness, aka only selfishness, maybe you need both of them, because you cant really help others if you are not okay first... or you might end up destroying yourself on your way but if you are only selfish you'll destroy everything in your way, so you need to balance it, some things need to be destroy so that new things can happen
At least that's what I think balance is and why only light and selflessness as nice as it sounds, can be as unhealthy as only selfishness
Or maybe the light side is being the right amount of both and the Darkseid is going to the extremes and thats why the jedi couldn't really destroy the darkness, because they were feeding it.
You can't really simplify good and evil as health and cancer or light and darkness, and maybe that's why till this day, "darkness" has always end up overthrowing "light"
Calling Ahsoka a Grey Jedi is really about the fact she never "officially" went back to the Jedi Order as an order. But that's like saying Harry Potter isn't a wizard because he never graduated Hogwarts (which he didn't).
Hold up, are you saying Harry graduated or not?
@@captainvader921 Harry and Ron didn't graduate according to Rowling. The trio skipped out on the last year of school cause of the whole war with Voldemort thing. Hermione went back the year after to do her last year of school and officially graduate, I think the boys were like "we defeated a dark wizard. What can Hogwarts teach us?" They did not go back and went straight into the workforce. 😂
@@TheDawnofVanlife That's amazing LOL
@@TheDawnofVanlife ok, I was just confused when you said "which he didn't" 😂.
@@captainvader921 Now we're getting off topic, but I must point out now Harry Potter's a high school dropout lol
If they are going to do an Ashoka series, I would like to see her interacting with Luke (especially if it's in between episodes 6 and 7). I would love to see her reaction to learning who he is (if she doesn't know already), and her learning of how her old master redeemed himself at the end of episode VI. However, I would not want her to join Luke's Jedi, as it goes against her character development. Instead, it would be interesting to see her help Luke in indirect ways (maybe guiding younglings to him thanks to her covert ops skillsets she developed as Fulcrum or her being the one who helped Lucke refine his lightsaber skills later on in life? who knows, but there's a lot of potential in their interactions).
Why not? If you are basing Lukes order of the sequels I get it, but where it the Legends order, that would be what she was looking for.
It would be an interesting plot point if Ahsoka and Luke encountered self proclaimed Grey Jedi, who thought they could bring balance by embracing both sides of the force, but would ultimately succumb to to temptation of the dark side. That would essentially bring this discussion into the star wars story while demonstrating how the Force actually works. And not just in a monologue, but through a short story arc that brings forward both ideas and shows which one actually works and makes a convincing argument why.
Someone: "Ahsoka is a Grey Jedi"
Everyone else: "That's not how the Force works and is offensive to the character"
So can there be an anti-hero Jedi? what if you use the dark side to help people?
@@CoolMyron that might work for a little while, but soon enough the dark side will begin breaking you down, corrupting you to a place of evil. That's just the nature of the dark side: It's cool but evil.
The Dark Side can’t be combined with the Light. The Dark Side wants to consume and destroy the Light Side. The Dark Side is pure evil. It why the Sith are what they are morally. The Dark Side is addictive force of evil. Even Darth Bane and Darth Revan acknowledged that the Dark Side bends the Sith Lord to ITS will. Look at Jedi turn Sith like Revan, Malak, Exar Kun, Ulic Qel Droma, and Anakin. The Dark Side consumed them and make them slaves to its will. The dark side despises balance with the light side and wants domination and control.
@@CoolMyron look what happened to Anakin. He wanted to use the dark side to save someone and he ended failing. The dark side is not something you can control and it offers you something the light side can’t but it comes at a great cost. Your humanity
@@CoolMyron I guess you’d be using the light side if your intentions are purely to help others. Maybe the question should be can dark side skills ever intentionally be used selflessly? I’d say the answer is no because, in order to conjure those skills (e.g. lightning), the user must draw on hate and other dark emotions.
However, I feel that the very concept of a "Grey Jedi" could be incredibly interesting as it would be less about balancing the dark and the light, but living on this razor thin edge. Not about striking a balance, but always being on the precipitate of falling deeply into the Dark. You wouldn't really be able to exist in the "Grey" permanently. It would always be a transitional period marked by immense struggle.
Naw that takes too much imagination. Gotta keep it binary with good and bad even though the Jedi's creed is inherently hypocritical.
@@emberfist8347 thanks for existing, Blake.
@@Gapeagle but I understand it as someone that writes for film. Imagine if you had a golden truffle that was a million dollars an ounce. You could create the most mouth-watering recipes known to man if you took risks and experiemented, but you would also waste that precious ingredient. With so much on the line, you end up playing it safe, just the same shaved truffle over pasta for the next 50 years.
@@Gapeagle It is true the jedi have their own faults, and being the biggest light side order they often see their way as the only possible one. But you don't need to be a jedi to follow the light side. And yes the dark side is bad. It corrupts even the best of intentions. You cannot master the dark side without succumbing to the hate and anger that fuels it.
That's kinda Mace Windu. He's all about hanging on the edge of the dark side without actually crossing it. Vaapad, Shatterpoint, purple saber, etc.
Huh, I never really applied the term "Grey Jedi" to simply being a practitioner of Light and Dark.
To me, a Grey Jedi was somewhat more analytical of situations without relying on the Jedi Code for the answers, sometimes even going against it if it would ultimately lead to doing the right thing. Well, without leaving wanton destruction in your wake, obviously.
That seems reasonable enough
Grey Jedi was never a thing. Pure fan fiction
Yeah I've figured for a while Ahsokas arc will make her a Jedi again. She'll be like Qui-Gon, understanding the difference between controlling emotions and cutting off emotions.
I mean... The Grey Jedi was never really a thing in Star Wars Canon or Legends.
Man oh man, but you'll have some peeps who can't let go of fan fiction come and tell you you're wrong. And then tell you how bad ass/superior the gray jedi are to sith and jedi
@@thebro6204 because they are, grey Jedi are a power fantasy after all, and that’s why it’s not canon now, and neither was it a thing before, thankfully...
Luke turned to the dark side to outsmart Palpatine and use it against him, does it count?
it was in legends
@@neitherlink6612 it was canon many book said this and this person was a grey jedi in legends bindo and revan are seen as grey
Finally someone explains why grey Jedi do not exist
I dunno it's weird. The prequel era Jedi might be the grey Jedi. To divest yourself of fear and anger and to ignore that in other people. Anakin didn't chose to fall I think, he was forced to fall. Qui-Gon would have been the father figure he needed, not the brother figure that Obi-wan was. People deserve to be a little selfish in their own mental and emotional health, but not at the cost of others.
Or Something between Sith and Jedi, that there should be force users who wield both passion and altruism.
Grey Jedi are an old concept in the fandom, and one that will not be easily removed. I believe it was formally created in the West End Games RPG as a player character class, though I could be wrong about that. West End created a lot of the lore on their own (much like Mattel was allowed to create new vehicles and other toys from their own designs) that was used as a foundation for the original Expanded Universe (and to a lesser extent the PT), and the vast majority of it was good. But it was all developed when the OT was all that was really available, since the few novels (Splinter of the Mind's Eye) and comics (Marvel) that existed at the time were just basic merchandising opportunities and not a deliberate effort to build out the universe in a consistent fashion.
The Dark Side can’t be combined with the Light. The Dark Side wants to consume and destroy the Light Side. The Dark Side is pure evil. It why the Sith are what they are morally. The Dark Side is addictive force of evil. Even Darth Bane and Darth Revan acknowledged that the Dark Side bends the Sith Lord to ITS will. Look at Jedi turn Sith like Revan, Malak, Exar Kun, Ulic Qel Droma, and Anakin. The Dark Side consumed them and make them slaves to its will. The dark side despises balance with the light side and wants domination and control.
ruclips.net/video/4azz0ujlY4M/видео.html
This is also a good video explaining why the grey jedi don't exist
The concept of Grey Jedi was created by George Lucas, the second trilogy was going to explore Luke's sister (Which was not supposed to be Leia) which grew up in the outer rims of the galaxy and was a student of the Grey Jedi. The issue is that none the Jedi or the Sith understood what balance meant when balance wasn't meant to be balance to the force when the force is balanced by itself. Balance of the force inside the Jedi. This was the explanation George Lucas made some time ago,
Well if we're using the drug Concept. Then the Grey Jedi thinking could be like "We should stay sober mostly buy if we're really hurt, we could take some alcohol to numb the pain"
So, our population
But does that make you an alcoholic though? If it's just on occassion and it's not a daily habit then it's not an addiction
It's more like, drinking the pain away without talking about it. But still trying to become sober for 3 days a week and having a girlfriend
What I've always said; not being a Jedi (in reference to Ahsoka) doesn't mean her ideals and philophies are any different. She's simply what The Jedi SHOULD be
So can there be an anti-hero Jedi? what if you use the dark side to help people?
@@CoolMyron it would probably still consume you. Once you start down its path, forever will it control your destiny.
That's a great meataphore for life. The quickest way isn't always the one good for you and could eventually harm you.
I do believe that using good emtotions to fill your "force energy" is good. The likes of Love and even passion at times.
If we get more specific BTW, even Sith aren't inherently evil. Their basis philosophy is rather "normal" and accepted among human beings these days. It's their use of the Dark Side that makes them uncontrollable and angry for blood.
@@daniellevy8935 thx
@@CoolMyron sure thing ! Alawys love talking about Star Wars 😀
@@CoolMyron just look at Anakin when he fell; he still thought he was doing good when he was bringing 'peace and prosperity to my empire'; the dark side had its hooks in him by then.
"Remember, abilities are not inherently good or evil. It's how you use them." -Kyle Katarn, Jedi Academy
Honestly, I found the "grey Jedi" thing to have nothing to do the powers one weilds, but the choices one makes. So when people say preper grey jedi, it sounds like they don't want to be bad but don't want to be a part of the Jedi... idk just my thoughts.
I’ve always felt a grey Jedi is next to someone calling themselves a functional alcoholic
“Healthy obesity”
A happy guy with depression
@@raes704 I feel personally attacked.
A Robbing Hood
Drunk Master of Jackie Chan?
Dave Filoni should be the true leader of Lucasfilm, not Darth Kennedis.
You mean Kath Hound Kennedy?
🤣🤣🤣🤣 that's awesome
Unfortunately, he's her lap dog.
Then Filoni wouldn't have the creative impact he has right now!
@@timtetumtetodd Jon Favreau is far more influential than Filoni so far as keeping things safe and palatable. Feloni would be happy to bend whichever way. The worst part of his new clone wars season revolved around some clumsily inserted 'diverse females' if you'll recall.
Videos like this are added to my playlist called “Understanding Star Wars,” in which I collect videos that make an objective understanding on the morality and truth of the nature of the Force within the fictional universe of Star Wars.
I think it’s important to understand Lucas’s intentions when he was designing the narrative framework of Star Wars and how the Force is an active part of it in order to distinguish good or serviceable Star Wars from terrible and inconsistent Star Wars such as the sequels.
No surprise then that your videos make up a bulk of that playlist. Even though I know it’s only your perspective on the lore, the way you deliver your opinion, which is always based on evidence, quotes, and facts about and from the development of Star Wars, I perceive it as the true and honest way to perceive the Force and the message of Star Wars as a whole.
I wanted to let you know that because I honestly believe there is some moral objectivity in Star Wars expressed within the lessons it teaches. And without someone like Dave Filoni to understand the moral principles of Star Wars and lead the franchise, the story as a whole will become thematically and morally inconsistent, and thus tarnish the attractiveness and imagination of the series, something the Sequels did because of the incompetent writing and management behind them.
So the fact that you make these kinds of videos that explores and declares the nature of the Force as a means for serving the lessons and morals within the narrative is greatly appreciated by me, and I ask that you continue to do so because I’m convinced they’re important to understanding why so many fans adore the universe in the first place. That is, these videos reveal the hidden truths of Star Wars that reflect the truths of human nature in reality, thus revealing why Star Wars is so beloved because it’s relatable.
Great comment!
You should check out " "'s (the channel literally has no name) break down of Kotor 2 more specifically the philosophy of Kreia. I goes deep into how the Star Wars universe functions. His breakdowns would make a fine addition to your playlist.
@@oliverpasztor788 thanks! I’ll check it out. But could you give me a link to one of those videos? I’m confused about your explanation of the channel’s name.
@@whisperedflame6952 here you go: ruclips.net/video/-Z0S0Z8lUTg/видео.html
There are three videos that are essential to understand Star Wars' core narrative elements: The Philosophy of Kreia, The Failure of the Grey Jedi and The Foundations of Star Wars.
Watching his career with great interest
This really changed how I viewed The Force and Balance- that analogy with the immune system and disease and stuff helped make it very clear to me
I always love these deeper looks into characters. I agree completely.
Dave Filoni this is the way
Waza
Kinda funny seeing a guy with a Yin/Yang PFP not being one of those idiots who think that the light/dark sides work like Yin and Yang.
The tao
Make this guy president of Lucasfilm
Nah let him be the main creative director. Let someone else sign the deals and all that other stuff.
He’s the real MVP
@@NoCluYT yess.. And the president sholdn't touch creative stuff anymore.
It always pisses me off when people say balance in Star Wars is using both the light and dark
None can use both because they oppose each other.
Exactly! The dark side is inherently evil just by nature. They should rewatch the mortis arc because it shows how the more you try and control the dark side, the more it destroys everything you love.
It's been hinted at throughout all of star wars that's how it worked, but Dave Filoni is saying something else now so I guess all those past clone wars, rebels and other sources of "true balance" meant something else now
Benjamin LeTourneau George said it himself too
The Dark Side can’t be combined with the Light. The Dark Side wants to consume and destroy the Light Side. The Dark Side is pure evil. It why the Sith are what they are morally. The Dark Side is addictive force of evil. Even Darth Bane and Darth Revan acknowledged that the Dark Side bends the Sith Lord to ITS will. Look at Jedi turn Sith like Revan, Malak, Exar Kun, Ulic Qel Droma, and Anakin. The Dark Side consumed them and make them slaves to its will. The dark side despises balance with the light side and wants domination and control.
Masterful break down by both Dave and Thor. Bravo. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Well done. The idea of balance being having an equal number of Sith and Jedi and a constant state of murder and turmoil always made me shake my head. I am so glad Filoni gets this and appears to be on track to at the very least be the spiritual guide to Star Wars moving forward.
The term grey Jedi just doesn’t make sense. Call it a Bendu since that’s the middle
Your right but THE BENDU isn’t
@@miccool9ice363 wdym?
@@sirbedevere4944
I am referring to the fact that bendu always refers to himself as THE BENDU with much emphasis put into those words
Somebody watched rebels
@@kevinduarte1760
I prefer to analyze and gather all possible data to make predictions about future
So far I have been relatively accurate
i always thought that a "gray" jedi was a jedi that valued all emotions, knew there was strength in love and attachments and knew that trying to suppress emotions (like the jedi in the prequels did) was the fastest way to the dark side because, let's face it, you can't fight human nature that much. you can't make it so people aren't afraid or don't fall in love, you CAN train them to think straight while full of anger or despair because, if you can keep your cool in those situations, you are pretty much a brick wall to the dark side. so, in the end, i always considered ahsoka and qui gon "gray jedi" because of that. also, for the force lighting thing, we simply never seen it used for anything else but to hurt, except, it's electricity. in the end, i always thought there was "the force" meaning that anyone could use anything from any "side" and, as long as you use it carefully, you would still be using the "light side"
Plo Koon uses a version of force lighting which he referred to as force judgement and the Jedi counsel allowed it as he felt no anger or other such strong emotion while using it. So there is precedent for using force lighting as a light side user of the force.
Also if force lightning is just electricity then why is it inherently evil? Modern police use tasers which are basically just electric delivery devices and it's generally considered to be a better and inherently more "good" option than simply shooting someone. I think it's a hard sell to say a Jedi using force lighting as a taser to incapacitate someone is inherently more evil than slicing them in half with a light saber or even hacking their arm off with one.
@@ThatGuyKazz also, Luke uses a variant of force choke in return of the jedi (on the Gamorrean guards in Jabba's palace)
@@ThatGuyKazz I think that the reason why force lightning is seen as a dark side power is because it usually is used through negative emotions, nothing more
@@MattHatter360 that isn't exactly a compelling argument because that can apply to anything. Of you force push someone into a wall while you're angry or because you enjoy hurting people then you are using force push with negative emotions and we see jedi use force push all the time.
The Prequel era Jedi did allow themselves to have emotions, Obi Wan says "Yoy were my brother Anakin, I loved you" They were allowed to have emotions, but yes they saw emotions largely as a burden, tranquility & happiness are the peak emotions of the light side.
Filoni is the one true Emperor of the Galaxy
I think your description of the dark side as an "addiction" is one of the most nuanced I've ever heard. It's a great way to describe something that can often seem nebulous at times. Using the power in that way, you literally "force" things to go how you want them to, for your own selfish ends. It's easy so you keep doing things in that way. It's like a kid who is spoiled by parents that have a great amount of wealth. They get whatever they want, do whatever they want, and end up a rotten person inside. Only in this the onus isn't on "parents" but the person themself. Their selfish use of the force causes the good or wholesome person they were to "rot" away, as they become enticed by the power itself. It's refreshing to see this aspect of things coming back into play in Star Wars. These are the stories people want.
Incredibly insightful! I agree with you! Thanks for clearing that up in my mind. “For once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.”
I used to really like the idea of grey Jedi, until George put the dark side as a “cancer” and you don’t want any dark side.
Yeah me too. I think it happens because when one is young tends to just want something cool so one lives in the "more equals better" mindset (Logic: light side= uncool but good, dark side= cool but evil, so light + dark must be cool and good right?). However, when one grows older realizes that the "more is better" mindset goes directly against what the Jedi in Star Wars stand for and that that mindset is more aligned with the philosophy of the Sith.
@@jakobrenner2230 I've definitely come to view the Jedi (at their best) a lot more highly as opposed to the Sith as I've gotten older, though it definitely helped to put the fandom propagated misconceptions about Balance to rest. But even before I've always despised the concept of Grey Jedi, because the fact that someone could regularly use the dark side without consequences never appealed to me.
@@adronius147 that misconception unfortunately is very common still among new and more casual fans. (I don't want to sound pretencious, but I don't how else could I phrase it.)
@@adronius147 I still prefer the idea that balance means both sides being equal. The way Filoni and Lucas describe it just kind of removes almost all nuance and complexity from the Force, and even Star Wars as a whole to me. So good is good and bad is bad? How very cut and dry. Not really true to life at all either. More to this point, it does a lot more in service to the prophecy of the Chosen One. It always made sense that in order to achieve balance Anakin had to destroy both orders, essentially being unwillingly and unwittingly pushed from one side of the Force to the other in order to accomplish the Force's goal. I always preferred the idea that Anakin's life as both Jedi and Sith were necessary for balance. Guess not though.
@@ewanreilly2988 Balance being an equilibrium between the "dark" and "light" sides of the Force does precisely that for me as well, remove all complexity from the Force and make both the Jedi and Sith obsolete, if you can use the Force both selfishly and selflessly without consequences.
It also completely ignores how the Force functions as a symbiotic, two-part organism, namely the Living Force and the Cosmic Force; the former manifesting in all of life through Midichlorians and propagates the Cosmic Force, which is the omniscient "consciousness" that in turn influences the Living Force. There isn't actually a "light" or "dark" side to the Force.
The Jedi are simply the Enlightened ones, who are in tune with the Cosmic Force and make sure the Living Force, ergo all life in the galaxy, can live in peace, freedom and prosperity. There is Balance if the symbiotic relationship between the two parts of the Force functions correctly.
The Sith, or basically any "dark side" user upsets this Balance by bending the Cosmic Force to their will, metaphorically rebelling against it and attempting to enact control over it and all of life. They build empires to control and oppress life in the galaxy, and the corruption they suffer, both to their body and their being is the price the Force enacts on them, stripping them of all humanity until they are nothing but evil megalomaniacs, crazed with power, which ensures their eventual downfall when a champion of the Force finally dismantles their rule and ends their oppression over life, restoring Balance.
The light is selflessness, the dark is selfishness.
The Light is driven by "the greater good." which can result in one doing some pretty terrible things in the belief of "the lesser evil"
The Dark is driven by " *my* greater good" which can also result in some pretty terrible things
The Light is associated with, Compassion, tranquility, logic, charity
The Dark is associated with fear, anger, hatred, envy, greed
If one can say that being "balanced" is being in the light, then the simple solution is that these associations are false. fear, anger, hatred, envy, greed... these are not things intrinsic to the dark-side, they are intrinsic to life itself, and the force is life.
What makes one light and another dark isn't emotion. Attachment, and the emotions it brings, are a tool to self-empowerment (which is close to selfishness but not the same), fuel for a fire. What makes one dark or light is for what purpose one uses the force. for themselves, or for others. if one has no attachment to others, one has no cause to be selfless.
This is why there is such confusion, as the Jedi care more of the *means* than the intention. They do not walk in the light, they merely cling to its foundations, too weak to stand for fear of falling, and the fear of fear itself.
@@emberfist8347 i did not say they did. i simply said that the jedi cared more about means than the end.
it all depends on context, in this case, emotion.
is emotion fundamentally bad? no. The Jedi (ironically) were so afraid of emotion that they blinded themselves. disconnected themselves so that they could not hope to understand.
the Sith and Jedi look at two different pieces of the same puzzle, and neither are in balance.
The Sith realize that the *conflict* of emotion makes them stronger, but instead of understanding and overcoming they revel in it and are consumed by emotion, losing logic and reason.
Jedi shy away from the conflict, they remain weak, and when that conflict is forced upon them, they are not ready and are consumed.
if one is strictly logical, one will Doom 10 to save 100. the lesser evil in the name of the greater good.
if one is emotional one might choose to save the 10 and doom 100 because the one cares more strongly for the 10.
but maybe neither is a right choice, Hmm?
Which side of the force you are on does not determine what you do, just what your soul is. Also, logic doesn’t have anything to do with either the light or dark. Obviously palpatine was pretty smart and had to use logic to become the chancellor and eventually the emperor. The light/dark side is your emotions. No one is completely light or dark, however it is much easier to fall into overwhelming darkness rather than light. Being imperfect and causing suffering does not necessarily make you dark side.
You’re also confused about attachments. Jedi are supposed to value all lives equally, meaning they are completely selfless. If you chose two strangers over your wife because you wished for the greater good you would be incredibly selfless, and having attachments makes this harder. In a Jedi’s life they will have to deal with stuff like this often, which is why they ban romantic relationships and look down upon attachments. They need to be able to LET GO of anyone for any reason. Letting go is a major theme in all of Star Wars. Loving someone is not bad, but they ban romantic relationships because they want to prevent what happened to Anakin. Jedi are not perfect, if they were they would be able to have relationships without worry.
@@nickwilson3499 to be entirely selfless, is to be less than whole.
to be dedicated to the greater good is to be content with choosing the lesser evil.
the Jedi *fear* attachment. This fear led to banning it and exile of those who dared be entirely themselves. but one cannot ban a piece of their soul. One can only accept it and not let it rule you. *this* is why the Jedi are not balanced and fall so far so quickly.
They stigmatized attachment rather than learning to embrace and overcome it. They fled the conflict rather than making peace with it.
A conflict unresolved is fought eternally, and while it is fought there can be no balance.
Sith draw strength from their conflict, but lack the vision to make peace with it and are thus ruled by it. Jedi flee the conflict, neither gaining strength from it, nor breaking free from its rule.
@@MFenix206 dude finally someone realizes that attached doesn't lead to darkness but to light, that is why vader came back to light, because of attachment, the prequels, tried to show this, and the clone wars expanded on this, anakin failed the order, but the order also failed him, an example ahsoka, Ashoka kept anakin grounded (same with obi one but he wasn't open about it) and you slowly see anakin change mature and grow wiser, example anakin's reaction to clovis, In season two although pissed off, he kept a pretty even head all things considered, especially considering his response to him in season 6 after ahsoka left) there is no doubt that had ahsoka stayed palpatine would have failed, and anakin would have fullfiled his destiny she was the catalyst among other things.
@@MFenix206 ,very well said. Everyone seems to have this idea that a grey jedi is someone who is supposed to be good and evil at the same time. This is incorrect, morality and the force are not one and the same.
It is your actions that should determine whether you are good or evil. Take Galen Marek as an example, he used his emotions to fuel his abilities. Abilities that helped a just cause like the rebellion. But in the end he didn't let those emotions control him. He chose to spare Vader even though he thought Juno Eclipse, a person precious to him, had been killed. He was someone who allowed himself to form attachments, yet not let the loss of them turn him into a monster.
Ya know it would actually be interesting to see if force lightning can being used on the light side in some way practical like maybe a generator or battery needs juice.
I know its technically a dark side power but in a way its just a power.
Like force choke is really just force grip on a specific spot, and like in avatar fire bending isn't evil its just like all the other elements that has very beneficial uses.
Sure. Force powers aren't inherently good or evil. It depends on the intent and how you use each power. You'd just have to be careful not to overuse it to solve all your problems, because that is the quick and easy way.
I would guess that in order to use force lightning, the user must draw upon hate, fear, and other dark side emotions and intentions. So it’s not really about the particular force abilities but the emotions and intentions of the user. I’d imagine a force user that is completely at peace and in balance would be unable to generate force lightning.
Videos like this one are why I love this channel. You have a good understanding of Star Wars.
Hi, I've been liking your videos more and more every time I see them. I look forward to them every time I see them pop up in my feed.
Some people say that Qui Gon and Ahsoka are 'grey' Jedi and the other ones are on the light side. I don't think that's correct: Qui Gon and Ahsoka are actually the real Jedi, they are the epitome of the light and most others have stepped away from its true path.
Thats what I have always thought
@@emberfist8347 how?
it truly baffles me how so many people are misguided in their basic understanding of star wars. George Lucas wasn’t crazy, and he meant what he said about balance and Anakin’s fulfillment of the prophecy. it’s good that Filoni is able to carry on Lucas’ legacy
Then explain the Bendu and the Mortis Gods. The Force is more complex than just the Darkside is all bad.
@@steveno7058 Both the Mortis arc and the Bendu support the darkside = bad reading. The whole plot of the Mortis arc was based on the Son's fall to the darkside throwing the planet, and the force, into chaos. And maybe you missed it but the Bendu was kind of an asshole? He refused to help when the rebels needed him and, though he did help Kanan and Ezra, was definitely not supposed to be framed as some ideal. His quote unquote "neutrality" was a character flaw, not the moral.
Perhaps there’d be less confusion if there were a distinction between the natural world and the world of sentient beings. Dark is not evil in itself. In the natural world (as Rey saw on Ach-to), balance exists when light and dark are equal, allowing life to continue. When a sentient being succumbs to their dark impulses, it becomes evil. Evil seeks to destruction of good by its nature, so balance in the sentient world is when good is dominant, allowing both to exist without destroying the other.
I love this video. The way you conveyed the info, clearly and reasonably. Well done!
I swear every time I check youtube I find another video about why Filoni is the best thing to happen to star wars in years
Either Thor missunderstands the concept of "grey jedi" or I do. I never thought of grey Jedi being able to use both sides of the force. While this is possible on Kotor, what I took away from it from Jolee & Kreia is the philosophy of the Jedi, Jolee brings up his own misteps and how the jedi order failed him and the jedi hypocrisy , Ahsoka has a similiar experience, and Kreia brings fourth the flaws, and also preeches to follow/listen to the will of the force , which happens from time to time during morality situations, she teaches you that to outright always help someone is not a good act in it self, and more often than not just selfish in where you take on the struggles of someone else to yourself and therfor not allowing that individual to face it and grow him/herself and hoarding those experiences for yourself. Even tho at the same time, you'd gain a light side point for helping zed individual and a dark side for not helping him.
And the reason Qui Gon also is refered to a grey jedi, is for his actions, he goes against the jedi's wishes to train Anakin, and he does not solve the slave situation on Tatooine, if not solve it, he had the option to atleast save a handful of slaves. And he wasn't afraid to use scary abilities as mind trick, which literally is brainwashing.
Anakin on the otherhand disobeys the Jedi but this does not make him a grey jedi, in that he always does what he wants for selfish reasons, even when it comes to rescuing people, colonies etc.
If he and Qui Gon switched places it's hard to believe that Anakin wouln't simply saber his way through the slavers, freeing every slave possible and being one step closer to the dark side.
While Obi on the other hand wouln't save the slaves either but not for the same reasoning as Qui Gon ( In where I beleive that Qui Gon shares the same general idea as Kreia that it's their own struggle to overcome, and the force doesn't direct him to it)
He wouln't do it simply because the Jedi haven't ordered him to do it, it is simply not his mission, so unless someone drags him in, like Anakin, he'll be more than reluctant to stay away from conflicts the jedi doesn't point him to.
So there's nothing about force lightning and how it's cool to be edgy, it's about the philosophy & morality when it comes to the will of the force. The Jedi & Sith are religions and so is the grey jedi just that there's no proper name for it's philosophy.
And this is what differentiate the jedi & the " grey " jedi
Yoda and the council did not want to have Anakin trained, since they could sense and fear what the future has in store for him. Which Qui gon also felt.
But the will of the force was to have Anakin trained, to later disobey the jedi, have children then turn to the dark side. Showing that they do not follow the will of the force, and instead make their choices based upon their own teachings & logic, they only follow the path which leads to the light side not "balance, nor harmony", and fight anything that doesn't. So in conclusion, the grey jedi are just as much light side as the ordinary jedi, with a different ideology, and the Jedi order we know of does not strive for balance between the dark & light, which we can see by the actions they've taken, since they're also guided by fear and can even be argued that they're blinded by arrogance. Which are pretty big stepping stones that leads to the dark side.
Every time I see the term grey jedi I think of some fanfic larpers who think dark and light can be used in balance at the same time.
So can I ask why the dark and light can't be used in balance I mean I've always thought of it like this; the force is an organism constant growth eventually kills an organism and just as we must shed our dead skin cells small parts of the organism must die to maintain proper health of the organism, or rather the light side is healing life and growth not within reason just growth and the dark side is death recycling etc the light side causes the force to grow but the dark side trims the fat from the force preventing it from growing too much or course correcting if it does. Besides if you think about it some of the stuff in the movies supports this, if the force can just make Anakin and force ghosts understand the will of the force perfectly why wouldn't the force allow some previous jedi to come to a force world and gain the knowledge of being force ghosts literally to course correct the jedi, teach them the proper way to use the force and to use the forces nigh if not actual omniscience to simply tell the jedi who would never have stopped listening to the will of the force who the sith were so that they can simply nip them in the bud, the simple answer would be that the force wants the sith to destroy the jedi instead of just retaining them as servants of the will of the force meaning the force wants the dark side to gain power, does that make any sense or am I just talking jibberish here?
The Dark Side can’t be combined with the Light. The Dark Side wants to consume and destroy the Light Side. The Dark Side is pure evil. It why the Sith are what they are morally. The Dark Side is addictive force of evil. Even Darth Bane and Darth Revan acknowledged that the Dark Side bends the Sith Lord to ITS will. Look at Jedi turn Sith like Revan, Malak, Exar Kun, Ulic Qel Droma, and Anakin. The Dark Side consumed them and make them slaves to its will. The dark side despises balance with the light side and wants domination and control.
Russell Pittock The difference here is that the term balance Im Star Wars isn’t the same way balance is used in things like religion, spirituality, science, etc. Star Wars gives the force a duality, think of it as the light is balance and the dark is imbalance. While Buddhist or Taoist (or many others) would argue the two need to exist together for balance, the only way to look at the Force is through the lens of Star Wars lore, not what we know/believe.
@@Nubin2000 So that can't be controlled or tempered is the dark side a one ring thing that always corrupts those using it eventually because its not about temptation or addiction its about a will pressing down on your own literally forcing you to become something you are not because every description of Palpatine I have ever seen discounts this idea and places it squarely as an addiction or temptation, Palpatine always wanted power and control he pushed further than that because he was given the opportunity to do so by the dark side but as opposed to impulsively killing jedi at every opportunity he didn't he resisted temptation for the promise of an eventual victory, Anakin wanted to save his wife so he stopped resisting temptation and allowed himself to be overcome with hate and anger causing the actions it did, the dark side didn't cause him to choke his wife his lack of self control and blind fury did and this temptation or addiction as opposed to active will can be seen in that Vader is allowed to even consider returning to the light side due to love for his family instead of the corruptive will making him kill his kid a movie back thus eliminating the threat to the dark side instead of allowing it to grow the dark side is not the one ring it can be resisted the bankrupt morals of the sith are from a survival of the fittest and me first philosophy that the sith themselves hold as part of the religion.
@@Mark-fo6ij Ok but Star wars lore is riddled unyieldingly with contradictions that would suggest or prove that balance is light and dark not just light, the chief amidst them being that the will of the force is supposedly omnipotent yet let things get to a state where Anakin who it created fell to the dark side and the jedi were no longer servants of the will of the force despite the fact that its own visions it sends to jedi or a force ghost who were stated to be completely in tune with the will of the force could easily have prevented that altogether and nonstop visions of Palpatine removing his sith mask could have allowed the Jedi to root out the sith with no problems, the what George Lucas himself has described the force as and the movies are only compatible if we assume that the force enjoys not being in balance for long periods of time or that balance is between the light and dark I understand that light is balance is technically canon but it requires other elements of canon to be ignored or downplayed to function like that and overall makes no sense.
when you remember the daughter of Mortis, the personification of the light, lives in her or at last gave her hr nergy to safe her thgrey thing kind of goes out the window. Ahsoka has always been selfless and looking to help others if anything you could say she´s closer to the light than the jedi council was
And one of her aliases is Ashla, which was Lucas's original term for the light side of the force (and of course a moon of Tython).
Totally agree and there is also this “‘In my life, when people need you, you help them. No matter what.’ - Ahsoka Tano.
Thank you for this. It's an excellent treatise. I've been needing more explanation as to why the idea of the "grey Jedi" was frowned upon, as on the surface it made sense. Your explanation was concise and detailed.
Top notch mon frere. I've watched many of your vids but this is the one that sold me. Someone who get's it. Subscribed (finally).
The Kanan voice actor said Grey Jedi don’t exist and is a fanon thing, Grey Jedi never existed in legends or canon
But then what is Bendu?
A force sensitive creature.
@@benjaminjane93 "The light and the dark... I'm the one in the middle"
That's not just being a "force sensitive creature".
@@DemigodoftheSea The one in the middle that doesn't adhere to any of the two major religions. He's not a Grey Jedi because he's not a Jedi. A Jedi is not a "Force Sensitive that happens to be good." and Sith is not a "Force Sensitive that happens to be bad". Both are organizations and organized religions with creeds, rules, and regulations.
So yeah. As far as The Bendu is concerned. He is just a Force Sensitive Creature.
What about Jedi on Tython? They were not right about following the light and the dark path at the same time then?
Those are the jeddai, not the Jedi. The jeddai believed in balance of the dark side and the light side.
@@YanaDasgupta ok but it doesn't matter who they are, they are still Force users in the end
My question is whether they were wrong to do as they did or no
@@svetabogush8266 You just have to look at how it ended for them. Not very good and with the order splitting into two groups.
@@uberness77 well, good point. But does it really mean that there are not supposed to be just any Sith? Like in ROTJ Anakin brought balance to the Force, but if we're taking into account EU then the balance was often broken due to the people constantly turning to the dark side.
That doesn't make much sense
That's legends. It's not canon.
what about Mace Windu, doesn't he use the dark side of the force in battle. I always thought that Windu used the dark side but had complete and utter control of his emotions in order to resist the pull of the darkness. Has this been retconned in cannon?
He uses his opponents dark side connection so it is not coming from him and doesn't corrupt him
I thought it did put him at risk though, the darkness wasn’t coming from him but he was still very exposed to it.
For better or worse, this is never described anywhere in Lucas canon. I think it mainly came about because Windu uses a purple lightsaber... which is something Samuel L Jackson asked for, and one Lucas went with.
@@emberfist8347 Question, are the novelizations considered EU or not? Because if not, then Vaapad remains canon
One of the things that makes Star Wars so compelling is its mythological depth. Every SW story exists in a galaxy that's even more vast and complex than our own. Among an infinite variety of in-universe perceptions and interpretations ('certain points of view'), there are endless representations of the truth. Why shouldn't characters within the universe have just as much debate as we're having right here? All the pre-Disney EU content becoming literally _Legends_ can be interpreted this way. The Skywalker Saga alone (most people's way into the lore) shows that the Jedi's understanding of the Force went through stages -sometimes clearer, sometimes murkier- both as individuals and as an Order. And who's to say who is right and who is wrong. Actually, that wasn't really a rhetorical question. The answer is 'the creators'. The fact that more and more of EU/Legends stuff is being canonised -in the ways that it is; clarifying just such issues as these (e.g. 'are the Fetts _real_ Mandalorians?')- proves to me that there are people at Lucasfilm (Favreau & Filoni, but probably others who aren't in the spotlight as much as them) who care about this mythological depth and want to preserve and continue it.
I think you're absolutely right about the idea of balance in the Force. I think you're absolutely right about people misunderstanding the idea of Grey Jedi (whether or not they _actually_ exist). My own tuppence worth (two cents worth) is that when Yoda says 'If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny,' I think he means that the _battle_ between light and dark will dominate your life. When he says, 'consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice,' I think he is revealing more about his own fear and sense of failure than he is genuinely predicting Luke's succumbing to the Dark Side. Either that or, again, he's talking about the _struggle_ consuming him. Maybe if a Jedi never experienced any temptation to use the Dark Side, they could live free from its attraction their whole life. But to the extent that this is unlikely, it's important that they know their life will involve constant re-dedication to their Code.
I like your vision of a new re-framing of the essential conflict in terms of attachment/detachment. It's as if the Jedi made too simple an equivalence between detachment=balance(=light) and attachment=imbalance(=dark); as if, in order to resist the temptation of the Dark Side, one could simply deny one's attachments. But, of course, it's entirely possible to be susceptible to the Dark Side precisely _through one's detachment_ (e.g. coldness, logic). The Jedi weren't better the _less_ human they became (sorry alien races, you know what I mean), but through being more responsible and accountable to the Force (or, if that seems too spiritual/religious, to the Order). I, like you, would love it if a new Jedi Order could be formed under Luke and Ahsoka that sought an even deeper understanding of the Force than before, through acceptance of and connection with every aspect of one's personality. Not to _use_ the Dark Side but to... 'dissolve' it. Like you say, it's about intention. Then they could face the darkness without succumbing to it. Not only could this be the key to resolving suffering (fear-anger-hate-suffering) for an individual but also in their quest to maintain/restore balance in the galaxy. And, in this very particular sense, it woud be cool with me if they were to become the first Grey Jedi.
Sorry for the long comment!
I honestly can’t understand how someone could watch the Mortis Arc from Clone Wars, and end up believing that the dark and light side have to both be used together to create balance in the force (which is what the Gray Jedi concept is). At the end of the second episode of the Mortis Arc, the Father (the embodiment of balance in the force) specifically states that the dark side is evil. The physical embodiment of balance directly says that the dark side is evil and a threat to balance, and people still SOMEHOW end up thinking that light and dark need to coexist. I’m glad you made a video on this! It’s good to see someone who actually understands how the force works.
I once read on twitter that light side is like asian parents and dark side is your cool uncle that gives you candy.
No, the dark side is like your uncle who has candy written on his fking van
This makes sense.
I think westerners look differently at "balance" than asians. The light and darkside roots from Ying and Yang. So I can imagine westerners sometimes misinterpreting it.
On subject of true meaning of star wars: I recomend "Philosophy of Kreia: critical examination of star wars" and follow-up videos
@@emberfist8347 - regardless of your opinion on Kreia, those videos are phenomenal and really worth a watch! The creator does a couple that are lighter on Kreia material (so you might enjoy them more!) - like one on the Grey Jedi (and how the fandom have misinterpreted what “balance” means in terms of the Force), and one on “the True Meaning of Star Wars”.
Thank you for again pointing out that the moral nature of "attachment" is, at least, ambiguous, so far, and needs clarification. Really appreciate it!
I've probably made myself very obnoxious with my repeated long-ass diatribes on ethics, but I really think that the question of how we define "selfishness" vis-à-vis "selfLESSness" is absolutely at the heart of the question of what exactly "attachment means!
To put it in a nutshell, if you are acting in accordance with balance (i.e. "harmony", "the Dao", "Nature", etc, etc.) that balance includes your own TRUE interests! It includes your own life and happiness because ALL life is interconnected, and interdependent. Serving your own interest (i.e. being TRULY "selfish", one might say) is impossible if your sense of self does not include all the endless ways in which you (your "self") is connected with everybody else, and with Nature as a whole. Read the Daodejing, there are so many allusions to this. That is why "attachment" - in and of itself - is not a problem. It depends on the nature of the attachment. Its basically the difference between a healthy and an unhealthy relationship. Both are "attachments", but one is healthy because it recognizes and conforms with a balanced understanding of yourself and your place within nature, while the other one is unhealthy because it is based on a distorted, immature view of the world. That's why we have therapy, right?
So, what we usually call "selfishness" actually always turns out to be destructive of self (and of others) because it is based on following irrational impulses, immature thinking, and a failure to understand how everything is connected and needs to be balanced. And that's why I'm always protesting so strongly against a simplistic view of selfish=bad, selfless=good. We all know that that is only an approximation, when we say things like "sometimes you have to be a little "selfish", and take care of yourself, or you won't be able to take care of other people, right?!" The reason why the conventional view is incomplete is the very fact that everything is really interconnected, all life is interdependent.
It turns out that it's actually, practically, IMPOSSIBLE to CHOOSE between serving others, or serving self! They're inextricably linked!
AND, the ONLY way, the only INSTRUMENT we have to serve others IS the "Self"! The only reason we ever act towards ANY kind of goal is because we value that goal for ourSELVES. That is, because we have an "attachment" to that goal. The only real (moral) question is, are the goals/attachments we always already HAVE in accordance with harmony/balance/nature/"The Force", or not!
The dark side/"evil" is precisely the ATTEMPT to elevate the self above, and in isolation from others, and therefore ends up ultimately destroying yourself because that is simply not possible. The drug addict/obsessive personality/immature person is pursuing the momentary satisfaction of some impulse (experienced by the self) at the price of destroying his entire capacity for any kind of meaningful action. They may be doing a lot of damage to the world around them in the process, but ultimately, logically, that only makes their self-destruction more certain.
Star Wars is in good hands under Filoni. He truly understands the force. This is one of the most interesting videos you made Thor. I like the cancer comparison you made about “balance” I’m definitely discussing this with my friends who are also Star Wars fans (although not as much as me)
I feel like you're ignoring the fact that the term ''Grey Jedi'' has 2 definitions. I understand not liking the first definition but the second definition is something different. The second definition is a jedi that does not adheres strictly to the jedi code or the jedi council but is definitely on the light side of the force like a rouge light side user. That's why people keep calling Qui-Gon and ahsoka, grey jedi. I think if Lucasfilm wants the term grey jedi to disappear, they should introduce a replacement term for the second definition of grey jedi.
I agree
No that is just a user of the light side, there are no grey jedai, you are a jedi or you are not, its as simple as that...
@@benjaminletourneau5024 Do you think ''Jedi Nomad'' would make a good replacement term?
Except Qui-gon is meant to represent the Jedi of the old days before they lost their way. So giving him that title makes zero fucking sense.
@@uberness77 Easy there man, no need to cuss. We can have a civil discussion about this.
There's a lot of clueless fans that need to see this video. Good job.
Clueless? I think you need to watch the Mortis God’s and Bendu if you think the Darkside is pure evil.
@@steveno7058 Seen all of them
@@steveno7058 Clueless maybe wasn't the right word in retrospect. I just respect George's vision and it bothers me that new writers might try to change it.
@@bobs3302 Lucas was responsible and gave the green light to the Mortis story. The Darkside isn’t evil. But it can be used for evil purposes. But so can the light. The Jedi taking babies away from their families and using clones to fight their war is evil.
@@steveno7058 They take the kids away with the parents permission, and then the kids are free to leave the order if they so wish. Agree with your second point however; them partaking in the clone wars showed to them just before the end, that they were doing the dark sides bidding.
The Dark Side can’t be combined with the Light. The Dark Side wants to consume and destroy the Light Side. The Dark Side is pure evil. It why the Sith are what they are morally. The Dark Side is addictive force of evil. Even Darth Bane and Darth Revan acknowledged that the Dark Side bends the Sith Lord to ITS will. Look at Jedi turn Sith like Revan, Malak, Exar Kun, Ulic Qel Droma, and Anakin. The Dark Side consumed them and make them slaves to its will. The dark side despises balance with the light side and wants domination and control.
Wasn't Anakin a slave to the Light Side when he was a Jedi? Both are extremes. If the Light Side is pure Good, and the Dark Side is Pure Evil, then most people can't truly serve either, because most people are not 100% good or evil. Good people do bad things, Bad people can do good at times.
@@emberfist8347 he was a slave, that was the moral message of the prequels, and anakin’s arc, he could only be freed when Luke saved him, your comment is as much of an insult to his arc as palpatine coming back
@@emberfist8347 Except for the fact that there's nowhere else for you to go, you don't know anyone outside of the order, you have no real skills to help you get a job except as a bounty hunter or bodyguard.
Yes! Finally someone who understands Star Wars!!! What a breath of fresh air
Hearing you say the dark side is like an addiction was something I’d never thought of before and makes so much sense. This is why I love your content Thor 🤙
Ah, but the Light can be likened to an addiction to a sedative as well
Lot of people clearly never heard of Force Lightning's Lightside cousin Electric Judgment. A electrical attack but not nearly as powerful and mainly only used like a stun gun or taser would be.
Man I hoping to see that used by luke in the sequels
Peaceful dusk, yes I do know about the electric judgment. But it is on par with force lightning. Grandmaster Luke killed many Vong warriors with it. So you are a bit wrong in that regard that electric judgment is weaker than force lightning.
@@emberfist8347 Did Plagueis say so and to whom?
If the light side is selflessness and balance, and the dark side represents selfishness and is a cancer that brings about imbalance, how can there be a middle ground like the Bendu claims they are in rebels?
If being a grey Jedi is contradictory because there is no middle ground or mix of selflessness and selfishness, how can beings like the Bendu who claim to be in the middle of the “Ashla” and “Bogan” exist? Even more confusingly what’s in the middle of balance and imbalance?
Would also love to know the answer to this.
@@emberfist8347 But he kinda disappeared at the end similar to Obi wan. So I'm assuming he became a force ghost which is impossible for the dark side.
He disappeared well so did the son after getting killed by Anakin disappearing isn't a light side only thing becoming a force ghost is
@@suriah12 the son is of the dark side
@@emberfist8347 He used the Dark Side to save the Rebels, so did he pick a side? Using the Dark to serve the Light, is that good or evil, Light or Dark? Even in the end, he truly was the Bendu, the one in the middle
Saying it’s the “most insulting thing” is absolutely dramatic
No it’s not, cus it literally is
@@traktor420 But it's not though because she has used the force selfishly before: "Revenge is not the Jedi way" "I am no Jedi". She certainly didn't seem to have any remorse saying that line despite revenge not being a Light Side quality.
It's crazy, I've been a star wars fan for 16 years and never understood why you would want balance between the light and dark, just didn't make sense to me. But this video cleared that up quick and made me love star wars even more 🙌🏾
Thank you, thank you, thank you Dave Filoni and Thor Skywalker!!!! This is PRECISELY what has been upsetting me in modern Disney era of Star Wars, both the movies and the books - a complete misunderstanding of what “balance in the Force” means in Lucas’ vision!! Thank you guys for finally setting the record straight!!
Your views on the Force are intresting, these sound like the Jedi teachings. Which I love to hear proves you are a true fan, but I'm not convinced that that is all the Force should be. The Jedi are monks following a "creed" if you don't want to call it a religion, but the actual actions of the force users show us something different. Obi-Wan, Anikin, and Mace failed to get information out of the Genosian in Clone Wars, but then Anikin used the dark side to threaten his life and suddenly he was quite talkative. Luke couldn't overcome his father until he used the darkside to make his body and abilities more powerful. Certainly being a better fighter is necessary sometimes to protect people. If it is easier to use the darkside then it is by definition more powerful. Power being defined as the amount of effect you can get out of some amount of effort. This is something I want them to do in a main trilogy, really examine the Force. Let's see how the Jedi teachings aren't absolutes of the universe. Let us see a Jedi grappling with the fact that someone is using the Force in ways that they think of as impossible because their conception of the Force is limiting their ability to interact with it. Similarly a Sith who bases their idea of the Force on a Jedi's conception but disregards the moral component of it then falls not to some inherent evil of the Force but to flaws in their own psyche. That would be a super interesting peice of the world to go into! In addition this gives you the ability dive into stories that say something about religion. Hopefully some nuanced take such as it doesn't matter what is literally true, it matters what the effect of your beliefs is, what qualities does it teach you to value and in what measure for each of them. That would be an interesting story, and in fact shares themes and ideas with you point on the difference of opinion Luke and Asoka could have on the nature of attachments.
In regards to that homeostasis metaphor, if that comparison to cancer is correct then you'd be right but if instead a better metaphor is the natural predator and prey dynamic of an ecosystem then I'd be correct. When predators disappear from an ecosystem then the prey will reproduce and consume the very things they need to survive. This then kills everyone as they starce to death and suffocate each other. But when a necessarily lower number of, but still a healthy ratio of predators exist they keep these populations in check, allowing the maximum number of animals to thrive by making sure they don't suffocate themselves.
@@emberfist8347 Yeah, tell that to every Sith in existence. It's easy to BECOME a Dark Sider, but it is hard work becoming a MASTER of the Dark Side
5:07 Couldn't some level of lightning be used to help you power up something? Or it could be used as a defibrillator on someone. I mean, I get the point, but there can be uses for lightning.
@@emberfist8347 Yes it is. Force Lightning can also be used as a taser
I know some people say Filoni overuses Ahsoka but I mean if he keeps telling quality stories with her ie (siege of Mandalore, the Jedi) then he can give us as much Ahsoka stories as he wants.
Overuses? Seriously? She’s a character he’s uniquely known for so why wouldn’t he use her? She played a key role in The Clone Wars and just had her first live-action appearance. That’s it. How in the world do people think that?
@@spiritofthewolf1880 John Campea thinks so. That's what he says his main gripe with Ahsoka was before seeing her in live action, but now he says he likes her.
@@fighterck6241 Not surprised, I never did like John Campea. What a flip flopper.
@@spiritofthewolf1880 Very true. His rationale for flipping on Ahsoka after her appearance in the Mandalorian seemed a bit half-baked to me, but that's just me. Perhaps that's what he truly believes and I'll leave it at that, but if so it isn't the best reasoning in my own opinion.
EXCELLENT analysis. There was a lot of this playing around in my mind, but you were the one who gave voice to it and brought the elements together. May the Jedi Master Filloni command the ship of Star Wars for many years to come.
It always bugged me that I never understood the "balance" Anakin was supposed to bring, and in the prequels, it seemed like even Yoda was not sure what it meant. It's not really explained in the movies for me, so this was a very welcome video, thanks man!
Go learn about the Bendu and Mortis Gods if you want to be more confused. Bottom line the Force is more complex than just the Darkside is all evil and should not exist.
I am just imagining a Sith and a Jedi on a road trip with the car battery down and the Sith just uses force lighting to charge it
Power! Unlimited starting power!!!
Try it now.. really.... DO IT!!!
Yeah I always thought it was stupid when people call Ashoka a grey jedi. She's firmly on the light side.
I really hope the sequels get retconned
Lol
Not happening unfortunately.
I don't think they will be explicitly retconned, but Disney is obviously ignoring them. Just look at the upcoming Disney projects. None of them are related to the sequels. This year also proved that sequel media is the least consumed, for example, the Kylo Ren comics like sold pretty bad and will close soon. On the other side, the Darth Vader line is still ongoing.
Best explanation of balance I've heard so far. Thanks!
Words cannot describe how pleased I am to hear all of this. I have been thinking much of the same things, though perhaps not quite as well articulated and fleshed out. A lot of modern fans are totally missing this and it’s critical. I’m super happy about that Filoni quote, because that was my biggest concern with him, based on some of the themes some of his work has peripherally touched on.
Me watching this video; "YES! SOMEONE GETS IT!"
I agree.
Great explanation, Thor. It's sad that the sequel trilogy continues to loom over everything like a dark, Sith specter.
I feel there's no such thing as "light" and "dark" powers, just light and dark intentions. Force lightning is bad if you use it in a torturous manner but if you use it it to subdue a person akin to a taser then that's okay. If we're saying brutal stuff is dark side then lightsabres are the darkest of dark side instruments. They're horrific. Same for force choke, when Luke choked that guard was it evil? Not really. He was just getting a dude out his way.
Example: If Luke came out that elevator and immediately force lightning-ed a bunch of the Dark Troopers then what's evil about that?
THANK YOU! Someone finally points this out, the infatuation with the dark side and this idea that the "grey jedi" is how it should be in the fandome really pisses me off sometimes. That, and how it's perceived and often (unfortunately) portraited that the dark side is more powerful somehow. It is not; it is just easier, like all wrong things.
that ending is exactly what I want out of this series. I love the idea of Ahsoka and Luke sharing their experiences and philosophies and how that could lead to a far more balanced, healthy Jedi Order. ofc, as you mentioned, not talking about how the sequels messed with it. also YES thank you. the Force in balance is not light and darkness at the same time, its something more personal that's between you and your choices. light and darkness are shaped by you, they arent active beings in the galaxy.
I think what often leads people to think that is the scene in The Clone Wars where Anakin commands both the Son and the Daughter and theres an element of ying/yang in the design of the arena, but I also think its important to note that a lot, and I do mean a LOT of that arc was highly metaphorical. Really, its themes and scenes parallel the entire GL saga perfectly, which is why its one of my favorite arcs from TCW and executed beautifully. Imo (as someone who hasnt watched Rebels and its take on them) the Son and Daughter are far more representations of the Jedi and the Sith, and how Anakin DID have the ability to bring both to their knees. Everything about it, from the daughter dying first trying to do what was right but being misguided, to the "next generation" character being tempted by the Dark Side in Ahsoka and ending the arc with the power of the Daughter/Jedi flowing through her just like Luke, to it essentially ending with a Father sacrificing himself for his Son bc he loved him that much (while also being an inverted parallel bc it was the father who didnt care what the son had become, when in the original it was the son who was willing to die for the corrupted father). I went off track but basically I think people take the Father/Daughter/Son far too literally as actual deities or representations of the Force, making them think it being in balance is this perfect equilibrium between them, when to me they feel very much like Vader in Dagobah, an omen of the future and a warning from the Force to Anakin, Obi-Wan and Ahsoka, to change or this will be their fate. Luke took the warning of the Force to heart. Obi-Wan and Anakin didnt, and they paid the price of it.
**Thor**: "The problem is the only thing that can be accomplished using lightning is to harm others..."
**Police with tasers**: :(
Also, "the only thing that can be accomplished with lightsabers is to harm others" :p it's easy to say. What if Palpatine made it stormy on Coruscant? And the humidity levels rising from that storm helped Anakin to breathe long enough to get into his suit? And there's probably some way to use a lightsaber to help other people.
@@iNsOmNiAcAnDrEw Yes, you can cauterize a bleeding wound with just a touch from a lightsaber
Your mistaking "grey" to mean both dark and light, and while people may interpret it as that the way its typically applied in lore ive read is for force users outside the jedi order. A force user that uses the dark side that was not a sith or part of a know order was typically called a dark jedi. The only jedi/sith to directly use both to my knowledge was reven and he was a very unique case. As for force lighting...i think more people need to learn about electric judgment and kyle katarns teaching of "there are no evil force powers. Just what you do with them". We can always hope feloni will just rewrite that trash fire and give us a real story.
Force Lightning was considered a universal power people games like Kotor and table top rpgs made it a Dark Side Power.
Ahsoka and Qui Gon embodies everything a jedi should be.
I thought the dark side was all about using passion though originally
To point something out: despite probably being firmly set in Legends, Plo Koon created a form of force lightning known as "Electric Judgement". It appears more orange/yellow than sith blue/white, and the Jedi Master stated that he felt no fear, anger, or any sort of dark side pull while using it. To restate a previous fact: your alignment in the force is based on how you use it, either to help yourself or to help others. The force is also still rather unknown, and it wasn't uncommon for Jedi to create their own unique force powers, Kit Fisto's "Water force orb" power as an example. What I'm hopefully trying to get across is that there is usually a light side counter part to every dark side ability, albeit sometimes weaker or not as flash as dark side force powers. For example, one could say force choke is the dark side equivalent to the light side force stasis.
Another smaller point I would like to make is that its always been my belief that "Grey" Jedi was a sort of slang term used by the Jedi Order to describe certain Jedi that didn't completely align themselves to all the Order's teachings and beliefs. ("Rogue" Jedi if you will). Examples being Qui Gon Jinn and Quinlan Vos. Of course, this slang term was also used around the time that the Council allowed the Order to become more influenced by the Senate rather than work along side Senate. So, tbh, one could argue that "Grey" Jedi like Qui Gon Jinn were really what the Jedi were supposed to act like, and the current Council at the time are all Greys themselves.
Rogue Jedi is probably a better term than Grey Jedi, when describing characters who did not operate within the strict confines of the Jedi Order, while not falling to The Dark Side.
I agree.