Already at work so wont be able to read and responeld to comments till later. Nevertheless, hope you enjoy the video that has nothing to do with controversy or our shattered fandom.
Thor Skywalker the fandom isn't shattered, that's just a trick from the dark side clouding our judgement. Probably shouldn't have built our temple over a sith temple.
It does, though. Adherence to the will of the force, as he understood it, is what made Qui-Gon Jinn a true Jedi. Now, Snoke decides who a who Jedi is, through bland dialogue in The Last Jedi.
I agree, because Oui-Gon does care about others....in the same way Luke does. Both Yoda and Ben wanted Luke to defeat his father, not save him. The whole point of Star Wars is that the Jedi code is flawed. It is the same reason I believe Kylo is unredeemable....he murdered his father in cold blood and does not regret it for a single moment. I really hate the concept of the gray Jedi....it's just fan boys who like the idea of using dark side powers and still being a Jedi.....they play far too much of Knights of the Old Republic. It's not cool, its not edge...it's lazy writing. It was the thing that I hated about the Star Wars Legacy comic series. Cade Skywalker is a gray Jedi....because reason. He keeps telling everyone that is in neither Jedi or Sith….he does his own thing.....but in the end he always does what is right. And the writer has his healing power as a dark side power....why, it makes no sense, except that every time he uses it he drifts toward the dark side....so that's why he's a gray Jedi...healing people tempts him to the dark side?!!! The writer keeps trying to show us that he is gray, and suggests he doesn't care about anything...it's not edgy, it's not cool, it's force nihilism and it comes off as a cheap storyline at best....he doe not have a defining moment like Kylo Ren does, or Vader does, or Luke....trying to make him edge, and gray makes him a very bland character. There is a scene where he threatens to kill himself if Luke doesn't leave him alone....it was just sad and pathetic....I didn't buy it for a single moment. Nihilism. And I think that is the furthers thing from what the force is, and that is what Lucas has always been trying to tell use. Even his new concept about the Whills feels to me, like Lucas is trying to place "the force" and all life in the galaxy under threat, and Luke and his children would have to face the Whills and stop them from exterminating all like in the galaxy, and destroying "the force." I actually like this idea.
I love that we have a video looking at something other than the drama of star wars vs our world stuff like this let's me escape bad into the universe of star wars better than that drama
@@HellShoot he just said he found the secret to immortality and could teach them the method or something along those lines. It's been a little while for me to but I've never seen the clone wars and always knew it was quigon who discovered the method.
@steve sabroe Seriously? You think Phantom Menace is as good as a New Hope? The movie that had Jar Jar, trade negotiations, Jar Jar, senate debates, Jar Jar, midi-chlorians, and Jar-Jar is as good as the original Star Wars?
@@TommyTombstone He desperately wanted Anakin to be trained while all the others disagreed ... and where correct in the end. The jedi always wanted to swrve the force. They thought the force wants peace and they saw the republic as the best state to be able to fulfill that.
@@Stego1819 he wanted the Chosen One to be trained. That WAS the Will of the Force. And Anakin fulfilled his prophecy in killing Sidious. (Ignore Disney) Had Anakin not been trained, Palpatine would have taken a different apprentice, likely with less suspicion from the Jedi Council, and as such might never have been maimed during his standoff with Mace Windu. Or he would have taken Anakin himself, instead of the Jedi, and the only course of action there is the Sith Rule of Two: Anakin kills Palpatine not to restore balance, but to take his place as the rightful Sith Master. Qui-Gonn insisting that the Jedi train Anakin was the only course of action that could be taken to stop Sidious, or an apprentice of his, from ruling the galaxy indefinitely.
@@TommyTombstone And if Anakin would have never cut Maces arm if. Mace would have killed Sidious and same result. The sith had no clue Anakin existed until Plagueis heard so from a jedi. Also yes Anakin was the chosen one but was the empire existing truly worth the price? Probably not considering that the galactic civil war lasted for around 20 years.
The genius of the prequels is something people are finally starting to realise. The sequel trilogy was meant to take the prequels and the original trilogy to next levels. But all they did was completely miss what star wars or even what a movie is supposed to be.
I remember reading that Disney wanted to stray away from the prequels as much as possible when they bought Lucasfilm, which is a big insult to Star Wars. When they bought the franchise, they bought ALL of it! There's so many great things the prequels gave us: The Jedi Order, More planets, A deeper understanding of the force.
@@Bonekinz That doesn't make it a fact lol. In fact, there nothing in the movies to back this up other than fan interpretations or speculations. I mean, its not any more etude than the fan theory that most the kids in Rugrats are dead or were aborted and the whole story takes place in Tommy's head. OR that Harry never left the stairwell and the books are relay him juts coping with his terrible life. At the end of the day, there's noting canonical to back this kind of stuff up...Just pure speculation.
@@AzazelZaphorOmega Just a quick FYI not taking a stance. Jar Jar's real fate was just released in a new canon book. He is basically a street performer with nothing else. It's actually kind of sad.
If Qui Gon had trained Anakin, Anakin would have been ready to accept his role as the chosen one when he went to Mortis, thus bringing balance to the force years earlier than he did when he killed the emperor. Great video!
I think that arc has a totally different take on the meaning of balance. In the films and George Lucas' statements it clearly means destroying the Sith, but mortis suggests it means controlling both sides of hte Force. I think filoni got confused.
Phil Osopher you got it backwards, the imbalance came from the fact there were only ever 1 or 2 with and a hand full of dark side users for so long while there were many thousands of Jedi in the galaxy. So bringing balance to the force was not killing the emperor.....it was killing nearly all the Jedi. At the start of the 1st film there are 2 Sith and 2 Jedi. Balance, between the deaths of Palpatine and Anikin and Luke’s new Jedi order there is again an imbalance. The force acted again to bring balance by destroying most of the new Jedi and creating new dark side users But! Luke cut him self off from the force, thus creating an imbalance once again. And as Snoke says the growing strength of the dark side led to a matching strength in the light side. Not Luke as expected but a nobody from nowhere who’s only merit is a desire to know her place and be shown it. A perfect vessel for the force to counter the rising dark side. The force doesn’t care about the emperors cruel regime, the force is not a person wrapped up in ideas like mercy or revenge or good and bad. It is a force, the force and its will is balance, with no concern for right and wrong.
@DrewLSsix How could he get it backwards when George Lucas himself stated that Anakin fulfilled the prophecy when he killed the Emperor? Are you saying that the creator of the Star Wars universe is wrong when it comes to understanding his own creation? Numbers don't mean anything when it comes to balance in the Force. So what that there were thousands of Jedi in the galaxy and 2 Sith? Those Sith destroyed the Jedi and managed to rule the galaxy. The Force isn't divided between Light and Dark, Jedi and Sith. There is the Force which is within all living things. The dark side of the Force is the dark impulses: anger, fear, aggression. Too much of this in the galaxy, and there is an imbalance. This is what the Sith brought about with the Empire. You know when you use the Force correctly by being calm and at peace with yourself. The will of the Force is to create balance, not imbalance. It creates peace and harmony, not death and destruction. That means that the Dark Side must be either extinguished or at the very least brought to heel. It's just like the balance in nature: you don't allow disease and destruction to destroy the plants and animals. It must be either sequestered to whither away and die or to be destroyed utterly. That's why Jedi profess not to kill prisoners. It's the will of the Force.
There's a great video somewhere that puts forward the theory that Anakin was doomed to fail because he was scared of death. Qui Gon probably would not have made a difference. Anakin's fear of death of his loved ones is a constant in all three prequels, and the video mentions that it was one of the reasons he was too old to train. That fear needed to be erased to become a Jedi. But it was too late. Worth looking up the video-made a lot of sense to me:)
The reason I always liked him was that he saw value in EVERYONE - including Jar Jar Binks. Obi-Wan didn’t learn this lesson from him unfortunately and ended up too rigid. A great Jedi nonetheless, but too code obsessed at the cost of seeing the value or even differences in people.
Obi Wan saw what qui gons lack of rigidity earned him. Its natural he'd become more (pardon the phrase) conservative. Especially if he is tasked with a padawan of his own right after And especially- especially if it meant a better chance of being on the council someday. Something that was not granted to the (again pardon the phrase) more liberal Jinn
Obi Wan should have followed Qui Gon's teachings after his death. It was the will of the force that made Obi Wan a jedi and placed him with Qui Gon after the counsel denied Obi Wan to become a padawan.
but he did follow the will of the force (he just don't knew it). At the end Anakin fulfilled his purpose in the prophecy at destroying both the Jedi order and Sidius, bringing balance to the force and a new era of renewal
The Phantom Menace is my personal favourite. And 4th best SW movie in my book. I can't fathom how ridiculous TFA and TLJ were. Some high points (nostalgia, oscar isaac) but the rest is pure reheated trash. I still can't believe it. Long live Qui Gon (and Liam Neeson)
There is nothing confusing about the 2 trilogies and neither is the plot on the Force Awakens or Last Jedi. Sure it wasnt perfect but holy mother of god, the prequels are absolute dogshit of a mess.
Yes, but there is so much that happened to bring us up to that point... which essentially begs the question: What ignited the war between the Jedi & the Sith in the first place ? Do you accept the Jedi lies ? Remember that history is always told by the victors. You've only ever seen & heard one perspective. Please commune with the force so that you may discover the truth.
He said "change his mind," but I don't think he even read what I wrote, which makes his challenge disingenuous because he doesn't even respond if we succeeded or failed to change his mind & why.
I think his low IQ brain literally exploded when I simultaneously agreed & disagreed with him... He was like HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE ??? ...Well young padawan, let me put it in more simple terms that your tiny brain can digest: As was told in the Matrix: *Every Beginning has an End.* So while yes, I agree that we've seen the END of Stars Wars, I honestly believe we've never seen the Beginning. The whole Star Wars universe really begs the question: What ignited the war between the Sith and the Jedi in the first place ? What led to the creation of the first Jedi Council ? I personally believe that the entire Star Wars universe is a historical fabrication by the Jedi: Lies & propaganda. I think the historical TRUTH of what really happened is far more interesting.
now now, no need to insult someone for not replying. what if he got hit by a car the next day and is still in a coma somewhere in a hospital? while the odds of that are low, we don't know? maybe he got convinced by your comment but felt too ashamed to reply so he just decided to disappear back into the endless mist of the internet. (the introvert technique) or maybe he just doesn't know how to use youtube properly and posted the comment with no idea that notifications is a thing? or he doesn't care enough to check! whatever the reason is it doesn't matter! its just a youtube comment! its about as irrelevant as things can be in this world! so lets move on with our lives now as better people and not call each other stupid for such meaningless things. may the force be with you :)
If you haven't already read it, I think you might really enjoy the novel Darth Plagueis. The titular character has much to say about the Jedi that you'd find interesting.
Thor Skywalker - The force is strong with you! I for one think he's right! You are the Qui-gon Jin of Star Wars RUclipsr's! P.S. I'm a little jealous lol! 😆
i wish we could have a film about qui-gon's entire life! he's such an awesome character: depth, complexity, adversity, heartbreak, wisdom, courage. easily be an excellent film.
With regard to QGJ being called, "grey," I only recall the description appearing in some Expanded Universe materials, to the tune of, "*Some called* Qui-Gon a grey Jedi, because he wouldn't follow the Council....." That's as far as it goes for me. What I'd really like to say, is to congratulate you on what may be, in 19 years, the first truly valid critique of the "midi-chlorians" concept I've ever heard! Unlike many self-styled fans, I've never deplored the idea's introduction outright, and I even felt that it made a great deal of sense at the time. But your insight into what it may have symnbolozied about Jedi thinking at the time, particularly as the wrong thing for the Council to focus on, makes just as much sense to the story. That really is a first.
Nick Hentschel The movies never say that midi-chlorians are supposed to be a good thing to focus on. All the people who talk midi-chlorians end up dead or homeless.
After Qui-Gon, I think Ahsoka was the closest thing to a true Jedi, but (ironically) only after she left the Jedi order. Once she was just an unaffiliated light side force user, she was led by the Force to help the Rebels, but perhaps more importantly (and I partially base this on possible information that we don't have yet) comes across Ezra. I think what may have sparked the "real Jedi" in Ahsoka may have been Barriss Offee's words to the court after Anakin captured her...that the Jedi had lost their way and become defacto agents of the dark side. Misguided as Barriss's way of bringing change may have been, I think people underestimate the effect that those words had on Ahsoka.
I 100% agree with you and the story you mentioned really shows the downfall of the Jedi Order. Barriss was meant to be a healer, and so her involvement during the Clone Wars broke her and made her do terrible things for the right reasons. While Ahsoka, only after turning away from the Jedi, was able to truly embrace the light. (God, I love the Prequel era! So many great stories!)
Exactly, just as a church building is not by necessity a house of God, the Jedi order is not necessarily an adherer of the light. Ashoka and Qui Gon understood that as Jedi, the light was more important than legalism.
Or Barriss Offee may have been spouting BS as a last ditch effort to harm the Jedi and spread discontent. Once she went full-on bad guy, anything she said should be taken with a grain of salt.
The Jedi died through Windu's hubris. I'm not sure that they are reborn either after the sequel trilogy, though of course the Sith are at least dead as an Order.
THANK YOU Finally someone else gets it... although I would argue that Yoda in ESB and Luke at the end of ROTJ as he tosses his saber, are true Jedi as well. True Jedi live in peace and harmony, following the will of the Force, seeking the good of all life, turning from selfishness and death. They use the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack. The prequels would have been better if in Ep 1, the Jedi were scattered around the galaxy, trying to seek justice in their local communities (a la Ghandi) through non-violent resistance and defense. (The lightsaber being a symbol of defense and deflection of laser blasts.) Anyone sentient could come to train to be a Jedi, as the Force is in and through all living things - but those who seek to use this power for their own selfish means would start down the dark path which ultimately destroys them - until they return to self sacrifice for the good of others. Ep 1 should have started with this picture of TRUE Jedi, and Ep 2-3 displaying their downfall as some of them start to join ranks with the Senate, and their powers used now for attack and war. Joining the Senate/Republic should have been clearly shown to be the downfall of the Jedi religion. (This would mirror the story of Jesus, the most perfect human, and then the subsequent downfall of "Christians" as the Catholic church becomes wrapped up in government under Constantine, to be used as a tool of the State...)
Yes... starting the prequel trilogy with the Jedi already tools of the Republic muddies the storytelling of what the Jedi are really supposed to be. They should've started from their own remote Enclaves, such as the one on Dantooine in KOTOR, rather than the massive temple next to the Senate building on metroplanet Coruscant.
I have seen many arguments that Yoda using a light saber is terrible because it goes completely against his peace loving characteristics in the Empire Stikes Back. Now that you say this it makes me realise that it is nonsense, the Yoda we see in the prequels is "young" and slightly naive, it is only after failing to defeat palpatine that he realises that violence is not the answer.
Just finished the clone wars. There are several times that the Republic and Senate threaten to and successfully remove Republic Clone activities. This is in the same context which shows Anakin beginning to develop relentless war tactics as akin to Tarkin's. This removal of the Jedi's role in the clone activities serves two purposes: 1. To prevent them from learning of Order 66 or influencing clones to sympathize with the Jedi 2. (Which your post has enlightened me to) Work to convince the Jedi that their actual duty is to the Republic/ Senate and the war instead of to the force. Palpatine let them get very caught up in the war, then openly reminds them they are peace keepers. The Jedi by this point have already lost their way to the point, that they are eager to defend their right to be apart of military preceding.
The Jedi in the prequels were wholly evil, what with being Generals and killing people in wars. Hell, they even used flamethrowers on sentients! How is that keeping the peace? That's just murder!
Qui Gon Jinn is my favorite Jedi MASTER! You said he was a knight and that is wron he led one apprentice to knighthood a second fell to the dark side and obi wan was his third... qui gon was everything you explained him to be and more. This video was all about The will of the force. His emotional lessons help too. This video is top notch my friend, much love 💜💜💜
I did think that Qui-Gon Jinn was a grey Jedi because in the movies it seems he wasn't in the favor of the council. We only learn later that he was once offered a seat on the council and that he declined. I may have not understood the dialog in the film and be wrong but thats how I took it. Qui-Gonn however still remaines one of my favorite Jedi. Now you explain reasons why my thinking may have been wrong, but that makes Qui-Gon an even better character. Good video and makes you think!
THANK YOU! The whole Gray Jedi thing is absurd. It’s basically “I want to be a badass warrior monk, but ignore my superiors and the code whenever I feel like it. But I swear I’m not a Sith. Sith are bad, and I swear I’m a good person.” That kind of pride leads to the dark side. I would add to this that I don’t think Qui-Gon had any problem obeying the council for missions and such. Being a true Jedi, he would be eager to lend a hand to people in need when asked, so long as doing so didn’t cause bigger problems.
Bradley Poole Ah But the idea that someone could balance the use of the force and use both the dark and the light side for a greater purpose doesn’t fit your description exactly. They don’t have to be defiant to be grey. Just only do what they believe is correct I. Their heart. Sometimes this requires tough love like when you tell a kid he can’t eat a chocolate bar for dinner. Or that he has to go to bed on time. Or more to the point use a dark side power to achieve a positive goal such as Luke did with force choke in the Jabbas palace. Sometimes being firm and even harnessing darkness is required to maintain balance. When Yin is deficient tonify Yin. When Yang is deficien tonify Yang.
I see what, you are saying, Isaac. However, I do not think there can be a greater purpose than balancing the Force, which is what a true Jedi (using the Light Side) should strive for. Anything else, no matter how grand the vision or just the cause, is a distraction at best and,at worst, a step towards the "might makes right" attitude of the Dark Side. This is a problem, even if it does come in a kind, paternalistic package. (BTW, Light does not necessarily mean nice.) After witnessing the fall of Anakin Skywalker, I'm not convinced that any being's heart can tell the difference between the will of the Force and their own will, unless said being constantly practices self abnegation and self surrender to others. The moment you dedicate yourself to that kind of selflessness, you abandon the Dark side, and with it any possibility of being "gray."
Bradley Poole fair enough you are entitled to your opinion. But I believe that in order to balance you need dark or there will be unbalance naturally just as sure as the sun sets every day. And this trying to maintain balance with only light is impossible and only creates an imbalance in doing so and that’s why Palpatine rose to power and why the Sith keep rising because there is such a huge offset of light throwing off the balance in such a strong way an equally strong darkness arises. When we got to the time of the last Jedi it was Darkness arising and light to counter it.
I've always felt this way about Qui-Gon. Truthfully, I always had the impression that the real reason Obi-Wan didn't follow in his path even though he seems to have many similar feelings is that he's been told all his life both that he wasn't good enough and no one wanted him and that he needed to shut up and conform. I mean that in the nicest possible way, but he almost washed out of the Jedi Order (through no fault of his own) and at that point I can imagine that experience being traumatic enough to make him desperate to be a "good Jedi". Add to that he took on Anakin immediately after Qui-Gon dies and without even a mourning period, goes straight from conflicted apprentice to a master who needs to look like he knows what he's doing (because training Anakin at all was going against the council, because he was too young to be training Anakin, etc. I can imagine a fear of losing his Padawan because somebody thinks he's doing it wrong). And during the time when he's trying to learn how to, in essence, be a substitute parent and a teacher for a child with issues he's never faced, his only sources of advice are people who will tell him all the wrong things. Qui-Gon was already dead. We see pretty clearly in the movies/shows that Obi-Wan indulges Anakin much more than he should by Jedi standards, that he's more often than not privately in agreement with Anakin but feels he should keep to the standards he's been taught, that he is expected to keep tabs on Anakin and correct his behavior by other more "proper" Jedi long after Anakin has become a Knight.
This was brought up in the EU, but basically since Qui Gon was already a hippie rebel, how does his teenage apprentice Obi Wan Kenobi rebel against that? By being a By-the-Book type.
Incredible observation! Honestly, completely superb, you have have touched on a subject I've secretly been suspicious of as far back as I remember.... Applause
Absolute great video and incredibly respectable (not a "word") reasoning. There's a ton at length I could think of to speak in, but I'll say in short I feel you'd make a great defense attorney for the innocent.
I would love to see a movie/show which followed Count Dooku and Qui-Gon Jinn. It would move back-and-forth between different times, showing Dooku’s frustration with the council and mourning the loss of his Padawan, to Qui-Gon’s journey to learn how to become a force ghost and his tutelage under Dooku. Even showing what he would teach a youngling Obi-Wan. It could really show the true principles of the Jedi and the decay of the order.
Really a brilliant Video. Before i watched your Video i count myself to the people who thaught Qui-Gon was a Grey Jedi, but now i agree with you and think, that Qui-Gon was the only true Jedi at this time. Thanks for opening my eyes and greetings from Germany :)
The other day, my brother and I were watching The Clone Wars episodes were Qui-Gon talks to Yoda. I was telling him more about Qui-Gon’s view of the Force. My brother’s response was “Wow. Qui-Gon’s awesome!” The conversation actually sparked an idea for a Star Wars Tabletop RPG session. My brother’s character, an Alderaanian former Imperial scientist turned Rebel, crash lands on a planet with an ancient Jedi Temple. The Temple will be populated by a group of Jedi that are more in line with Qui-Gon’s view of the Force. These Jedi thought that the Order was becoming too involved with the Republic, and took a self imposed exile. (I’m debating when the spilt should happen. Originally I was thinking 1000 BBY, but now I’m thinking of having the split happen sometime during the Clone Wars. That way, I can tell the story of my OT character’s father during the Clone Wars.) These Jedi took an old transport ship, and meditated, allowing the Force to guide them to a new home. (I’m thinking of making it Typhon or Ossis) Due to their exiled status, they were wiped from the Jedi records. Only those than knew them personally would remember them, and have any idea where they went. Back to the plot, my brother’s character would then meet my character, a Jedi Consular. My character has never left his home planet, and has spent most of his time studying. He longs for something new, feeling that the Force wants him to travel the stars. He helps the stranded Rebel, and together they convince the Grand Master to allow one Jedi (my character) to leave the planet, as long as he keeps records of everything he sees. The Rebel and the Jedi then fly off in a battered old transport, in search of the Rebellion and new knowledge.
Oi Thor what’s your take on George’s original take on the sequel trilogy? There’s a lot of articles talking smack about it but obviously most of the fanbse that has common sense supports it.
It's hard to say because he didn't say much about it other than bringing the Whills into the picture. But the key is that it would've no doubt expanded Star Wars in a new way, instead of retreading which is what the sequel trilogy is doing.
And see thats the thing it would've explained what was the point and the reasoning behind the force. Basically explaining the "magic system" that most people i would say wanted to find out for a while.
I know people think that explaining the Force in this way makes the Force less mysterious but I find that it makes more so. The problem with the sequel trilogy is that it’s just a bunch of fans interpreting the Force how they like it, whether Abrams or Johnson, but neither having a deeper understanding of what Lucas sees it as.
I agree with everything (almost) that you said. It was apparent to me from the beginning that he wasn't rebelling against the Council, but following the will of the Force, and he says as much through the film. Interesting parallels here with some mystical teachings here on planet Earth.
This video has made me want to go watch the prequels again and take a new look at episode one. Looking at it with the idea that Qui Gon was a true jedi makes perfect sense. Maybe there is more to episode one than I give it credit for. Thanks for this video.
Totally agree. Qui-Gon defines what a Jedi is supposed to be. What we saw in the prequels were Jedis unknowingly manipulated by the Sith. As a result being twisted without their knowledge.
There was a very popular college paper on the internet about Qui Gon that I read right around the time Phantom Menace came out. It basically explains why Qui Gon is so important and is much more than people think. He has been my favorite "movie" jedi ever since. Over 20 years now.
Wonder if jinn was an enlightened Jedi ? Kinda cool how he seeks balance on both ends of the spectrum of light and dark. He understood that you cannot eliminate the dark or the light completely and how they are both needed to add contrast to one another. Reminds me of Buddhism, how the only way to reach enlightenment is to embrace both the positive and negative aspects of life as equal and needed to see the truth on how the middle way is the only true way for peace for everyone and yourself.
Had the creators of the prequils understood the Force as you have described it here, the would have been able to show what it looks like to bring balance to the force: having Jedi who follow the force and not politicians. It would have been a heart wrenching power struggle to see Leia, a Supreme Chancellor politician struggling to lead the new Senate against the rising power of the First Order trying to convince her brother Luke, leading the authentic Jedi to go back to the old ways of the Jedi supporting them. The new characters they brought in would be stuck picking sides... Kylo could have been a Jedi who picked his mom's side... and look what happened.
What I wanna know is.. why did Obi Wan say to Luke that Yoda is "the Jedi master who instructed me", and Qui-Gon Jinn was his master in the prequals? Or was it only true from a certain point of view what he told Luke?
Well, Yoda likely trained Obi-Wan up till the age of twelve or thirteen or so... until he become Qui-Gon's Padawan. Which means Yoda essentially taught Obi-Wan the basics.... which is what Yoda was going to do for Luke as well.
the younglings were under Yoda's tutelage until they got teamed to a master for field training. so , in essence Yoda taught all the jedi, but also, Luke did not know any any other jedis, so Obi-Wan probably said that just to make Luke more comfortable and to drive his desire continue his training, since Obi Wan was dead and Yoda could teach Luke how to get to the next level of training.
REALLY...? I swear, people and fanatics in general will justify anything. The truth is Qui-Gon had not been written yet...he didn't exist ...duh. So Obi Wan and Yoda were used to explain things. It's not that hard. And one other thing... and Lucas stated this as well...Darth Maul is dead....PERIOD. Now things are totally screwed up because Dweebs/Hypergeeks cry so much that they will bring back dead characters if it means money. Well... now you have Star Wars in all it's Liberal Glory and it's thanks to the cry babies. Bringing back Maul was a liberal maneuver straight up. Duh.
I will make only one correction to your video. Qui-Gon never completed his training to become a Force Ghost. He was only able to communicate but never to show a spectral form as he tells Yoda because he was killed before he could finish the training under the Whills. My hypothesis is either that it wasn't Qui-Gon himself on Mortis and it was just an illusion such as a future Ahsoka or the Brother when he appeared as Shmi to Anakin. Or....the Father actually gave Qui-Gon for that short time the full ghost form. That he granted it to Qui-Gon since he needed him for that time to show himself fully to Obi-wan to give him some guidance.
You are right. I didn't clarify that Qui-Gon hadn't completed his training and couldn't fully manifest. Nevertheless the success he did achieve was still vitally important. I also agree it wasn't the real Qui-Gon on Mortis, especially considering he did indeed manifest there. Then again, I suppose it is possible since Mortis clearly played by a different set of rules then the rest of the galaxy.
I dont care what Disney says "Is" or "Is not" "Canon. Star Wars is fake. Canon is what you choose it to be. The people at Disney arent even star wars fans
ASMR Ross sure, it's fake. But Disney does control it and have final say over what is or isn't official. We may say one thing is the correct version and whatnot, but doesn't change what the owners of it say.
Very well done. Like all of your points and it’s a great argument. Had always figured he was more grey, but this helped change my mind. No longer grey Jedi, but true jedi
I never realized that being a Great Jedi had such stipulations about it. This just makes me wish even more that instead of sequels, Disney would make alternative universe versions of the old stories, ones where Qui Gon survives and maybe Obi Wan dies, or they manage to defeat Darth Maul together and go from there. That'd be cool
Qui Gon is such an underrated character. Definitely a candidate for a spin off movir imo, perhaps about his time training obi wan as his padawan, or even as himself being a padawan to dooku. I'd love to see either of those.
I agree with you. Qui-Gon Jinn was a sterling example of a Jedi master. Qui-Gon represented what the order was before The Jedi became arrogant and more of a police force regulated by the Senate. Luke pointed out The Jedi Knights arrogance of power to Rey in The Last Jedi.
So all that suggests for me that between the red barriers on naboo when he meditated, he had visions of the future, of his death, of anakin needing to become a sith, and overcame his fear of death and letting someone he cares for turn to the dark side in the name of the force, trusting in it´s way completely. Thus, he gained the ability to become a force ghost at last. But in the fight with Maul, he intentionally used light saber form x to trick Maul into thinking his Padawan will do the same. By that, he creates an opportunity for Obi-Wan to exploit that inception and defeat Maul. So in the end, Qui-Gon has one of the greatest impacts on the whole story and the success of the jedi.
Qui gon never finished his training and only appeared as a voice both in a book series by the same author of Jedi apprentice and that episode you mentioned was strong in the force allowing him to appear
I've thought for a while that Qui-Gon was meant to train Anakin, who was supposed to be a true hero liberating slaves & never turning to the Dark Side, and the recent book "Master & Apprentice" by Claudia Gray only strengthened this thought in my mind.
The name Darth Vader 'Dark Father' is also (In)Vader as he both invades and destroys the Jedi and Sith from within, causing a moment of balance as there was no true jedi or sith alive, Luke has messed that up recreating the Jedi order.
I think calling Qui-Gon a Grey Jedi works perfectly in the context of the expanded universe, as it shifts around the nature of the Force and the Jedi and Sith. In the context of what is canon right now, then calling him a "True Jedi" works surprisingly well.
Qui Gon Jin is the true example of what it is to be a Jedi master in the now extinct republic. He defended the balance of force as a true warrior but also as a great negotiator aspiring to peace, he was not interested in the approval of anyone what made him someone with a lot of conviction.A magnificent character and one of my favorites in the complete saga , for if he would watch a series in Disney plus as the protagonist or only cameo hahaha The design of your lightsaber is my favorite. Greetings Star Wars Master.
I think Shmi staying on Tatooine is the Will of the Force so that there will be people to raise Luke after Anakin becomes Darth Vader and a place for Obi-wan to continue his force ghost training and be there to take Luke with him once Owen and Beru are dead, which means Leia being caught by the Empire was also the will of the Force!
I think that the label of "Grey Jedi" is so often given to Qui-Gon because we can see that he's Different than the other Jedi. And since the other Jedi are the Jedi, that means that he needs the different label. To me, it's not a matter of "edgier", it's a matter of "Qui-Gon is clearly different and I need a way to articulate that". I like this perspective much better, though, so thank you for sharing!
It would be cool to see Qui Gon live and train Anakin the way Qui Gon saw the force so that they can maybe overthrow the council and start their own Jedi training councils so that future Jedi would be trained “The way of the force” and Anakin will be able to train luke and leia and then they can start their own councils around the Galaxy and the Jedi would go on forever unlike The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi. So if Qui Gon lived, it would change the entire Canon. That’d be really cool to see.
He always seemed like the embodiment of what a Jedi is meant to be, or of someone who is trying to be what a Jedi is meant to be. But what is truly making him unique is this trait that he seems to have, that Yoda claims Anakin could not achieve. To be passionate but not attached at the same time. Passion about attachment causes the fear of loss. Yoda and the other masters were afraid. Palpatine was right when he said that those who gain power are fearing to lose that power and in terms of the Jedi codex, the Jedi shouldn't even have feared the destruction of their order. It's just another attachment. A Jedi is not a warrior, not a monk, not a diplomat, not an ambassador, not a general and not a politician, and yet the traits Jedi train in are the must useful to have in either of these positions. They were used as diplomats, as they were capable of having an objective view on the situation and they were trusted that they seek the solution best for all. This way they have been corrupted by the positions they seemed perfect for. So is he a Grey Jedi? The council may have turned their back on him in some cases, but they respected him. And not just a little bit. His opinion has shown to have some weight within the Order, even though he seemingly did not desired it. Kenobi also said that if he would follow the Council, he could have been a member himself. It seems that every Jedi desires to join the council as master, as this is the highest privilege within the order, which already is somewhat off for Jedi. It goes so far that not promoting a Jedi to the rank of Master but granting him other privileges which usually come along is seen as insulting. At the same time Qui Gon didn't even seem to care that he could have a seat. It just doesn't seem important or even meaningful to him. Ep1 kind of establishes, that the Council and the Jedi as a whole are lead by attachment to the position they've gained. By the power they have. So, Palpatine had a very good point against the Jedi. Dooku left the order because of their political meddling, and he was Qui Gons master. And Yoda seems to be somewhat in between, he teached Dooku, which means that he to a great amount influenced his view on how the Jedi should be, but then again he is "the" master. Maybe he has been to long part of the Order to see for himself and was only able to see at the moment the Order fell.
The only thing I don't like about Qui Gon Jin is that he dies to early. But that's wasn't even his fault bc Darth Maul was trained specifically to kill Jedi. And if he hadn't died Anakin wouldnt have turned to the dark side later so I understand that he had to die for that sake of the story, but it still makes me sad.
People see Qui-Gon as a grey jedi because that's the label some now associate with being a "true jedi." He's committed to the will of the Force, which sometimes in the grand scheme of things, means weakening the Light Side.
One of the most unexplored aspects of jinns character in the films was his relationship with count dooku. If jinn had survived episode 1 we could have seen obi wan's resolve be shaken and challenged if Qui Gon took dookus side or withdrew from the war If you really wanted to explore the grey side of the force that would have been a golden opportunity to work it into the prequel story. Heroes on both sides my ass
Already at work so wont be able to read and responeld to comments till later. Nevertheless, hope you enjoy the video that has nothing to do with controversy or our shattered fandom.
Thor Skywalker the fandom isn't shattered, that's just a trick from the dark side clouding our judgement. Probably shouldn't have built our temple over a sith temple.
It does, though. Adherence to the will of the force, as he understood it, is what made Qui-Gon Jinn a true Jedi. Now, Snoke decides who a who Jedi is, through bland dialogue in The Last Jedi.
I agree, because Oui-Gon does care about others....in the same way Luke does. Both Yoda and Ben wanted Luke to defeat his father, not save him. The whole point of Star Wars is that the Jedi code is flawed. It is the same reason I believe Kylo is unredeemable....he murdered his father in cold blood and does not regret it for a single moment. I really hate the concept of the gray Jedi....it's just fan boys who like the idea of using dark side powers and still being a Jedi.....they play far too much of Knights of the Old Republic. It's not cool, its not edge...it's lazy writing. It was the thing that I hated about the Star Wars Legacy comic series. Cade Skywalker is a gray Jedi....because reason. He keeps telling everyone that is in neither Jedi or Sith….he does his own thing.....but in the end he always does what is right. And the writer has his healing power as a dark side power....why, it makes no sense, except that every time he uses it he drifts toward the dark side....so that's why he's a gray Jedi...healing people tempts him to the dark side?!!! The writer keeps trying to show us that he is gray, and suggests he doesn't care about anything...it's not edgy, it's not cool, it's force nihilism and it comes off as a cheap storyline at best....he doe not have a defining moment like Kylo Ren does, or Vader does, or Luke....trying to make him edge, and gray makes him a very bland character. There is a scene where he threatens to kill himself if Luke doesn't leave him alone....it was just sad and pathetic....I didn't buy it for a single moment. Nihilism. And I think that is the furthers thing from what the force is, and that is what Lucas has always been trying to tell use. Even his new concept about the Whills feels to me, like Lucas is trying to place "the force" and all life in the galaxy under threat, and Luke and his children would have to face the Whills and stop them from exterminating all like in the galaxy, and destroying "the force." I actually like this idea.
Nice video; thanks! This view does add a nice new layer to my understanding of all the Star Wars films.
I love that we have a video looking at something other than the drama of star wars vs our world stuff like this let's me escape bad into the universe of star wars better than that drama
Qui-Gon is honestly the most underrated prequel character. I think people forget he was even the one who learned how to come back as a force ghost.
Right? Like if that doesnt make him one of the MVJ's idk what would
People who didn't watch Clone Wars animated show probably don't know it ever happened
@@HellShoot what do you mean, Yoda tells obi wan about it at the end of episode 3?
@@ubivermiscerritulus195 I don't remember him saying Qui-Gon was the first, but I haven't watched in a while
@@HellShoot he just said he found the secret to immortality and could teach them the method or something along those lines. It's been a little while for me to but I've never seen the clone wars and always knew it was quigon who discovered the method.
His ability to return from the netherworld of the Force was due to the fact that...
He had a particular set of skills.
Mr Taken was the best part of the otherwise awful Ep 1
Skills that he has aquired
oot Id say the light saber duel wasn’t too bad either.
@steve sabroe Seriously? You think Phantom Menace is as good as a New Hope? The movie that had Jar Jar, trade negotiations, Jar Jar, senate debates, Jar Jar, midi-chlorians, and Jar-Jar is as good as the original Star Wars?
@@oot007 Podracing though...
"Qui Gon isn't a grey Jedi. He is the purest form of Jedi. The Council have lost their way, not Jinn."
Fair point. Good video.
Yet he single handedly destroyed the jedi order.
@@Stego1819 um, no?
@@TommyTombstone He desperately wanted Anakin to be trained while all the others disagreed ... and where correct in the end.
The jedi always wanted to swrve the force. They thought the force wants peace and they saw the republic as the best state to be able to fulfill that.
@@Stego1819 he wanted the Chosen One to be trained. That WAS the Will of the Force. And Anakin fulfilled his prophecy in killing Sidious. (Ignore Disney)
Had Anakin not been trained, Palpatine would have taken a different apprentice, likely with less suspicion from the Jedi Council, and as such might never have been maimed during his standoff with Mace Windu.
Or he would have taken Anakin himself, instead of the Jedi, and the only course of action there is the Sith Rule of Two: Anakin kills Palpatine not to restore balance, but to take his place as the rightful Sith Master.
Qui-Gonn insisting that the Jedi train Anakin was the only course of action that could be taken to stop Sidious, or an apprentice of his, from ruling the galaxy indefinitely.
@@TommyTombstone And if Anakin would have never cut Maces arm if. Mace would have killed Sidious and same result.
The sith had no clue Anakin existed until Plagueis heard so from a jedi.
Also yes Anakin was the chosen one but was the empire existing truly worth the price? Probably not considering that the galactic civil war lasted for around 20 years.
Don't forget about his ultimate form Qui Gon Gym
Nero his New Years resolution form
Qui gon jim
Michael letteri great timing lmao
Jar Jar Benchpress wants to know your location
How about Qui-Quan Chi?
RUclips getting real cheeky with these back to back ads.
@donnyfrom hackney 🤣
This is getting out of hand: now there are two of them!
@@klaatubaradanikto2563 us to RUclips :are you brain dead
The genius of the prequels is something people are finally starting to realise. The sequel trilogy was meant to take the prequels and the original trilogy to next levels. But all they did was completely miss what star wars or even what a movie is supposed to be.
Those movies were hard to watch at time because people was expecting only big fights and explosions
Totally agree with this. I am one of those strange people that loved the Prequels, even with some of their shortcomings.
I remember reading that Disney wanted to stray away from the prequels as much as possible when they bought Lucasfilm, which is a big insult to Star Wars. When they bought the franchise, they bought ALL of it! There's so many great things the prequels gave us: The Jedi Order, More planets, A deeper understanding of the force.
Hanzo Hattori I KNEW the prequels were great from the very beginning. Only morons misjudged them.
@@Mr.Honest247 facts
Anyone back here after the Dave Filoni Qui-Gon analysis?
where can I find that?
@@CliffTooth it’s a great video here ruclips.net/video/d0tGBCCE0lc/видео.html
Filonis bullshit should be ignored. His views are treated as fact instead of opinion. Not good.
YES
Don't forget that Jar Jar Binks is the Sith Lord.
That's what happens when you let focus groups take over from the actual writer.
Where the fuck is this stupid shit coming from? If it's not the in the FUCKING MOVIE then it DOESN'T FUCKING COUNT.
@@AzazelZaphorOmega There's a whole video based mostly on the movie about how jar jar binks was the phantom menace.
@@Bonekinz That doesn't make it a fact lol. In fact, there nothing in the movies to back this up other than fan interpretations or speculations. I mean, its not any more etude than the fan theory that most the kids in Rugrats are dead or were aborted and the whole story takes place in Tommy's head. OR that Harry never left the stairwell and the books are relay him juts coping with his terrible life. At the end of the day, there's noting canonical to back this kind of stuff up...Just pure speculation.
@@AzazelZaphorOmega Just a quick FYI not taking a stance. Jar Jar's real fate was just released in a new canon book. He is basically a street performer with nothing else. It's actually kind of sad.
If Qui Gon had trained Anakin, Anakin would have been ready to accept his role as the chosen one when he went to Mortis, thus bringing balance to the force years earlier than he did when he killed the emperor. Great video!
I think that arc has a totally different take on the meaning of balance. In the films and George Lucas' statements it clearly means destroying the Sith, but mortis suggests it means controlling both sides of hte Force. I think filoni got confused.
Where is fortis?
Phil Osopher you got it backwards, the imbalance came from the fact there were only ever 1 or 2 with and a hand full of dark side users for so long while there were many thousands of Jedi in the galaxy.
So bringing balance to the force was not killing the emperor.....it was killing nearly all the Jedi.
At the start of the 1st film there are 2 Sith and 2 Jedi. Balance, between the deaths of Palpatine and Anikin and Luke’s new Jedi order there is again an imbalance.
The force acted again to bring balance by destroying most of the new Jedi and creating new dark side users
But! Luke cut him self off from the force, thus creating an imbalance once again. And as Snoke says the growing strength of the dark side led to a matching strength in the light side. Not Luke as expected but a nobody from nowhere who’s only merit is a desire to know her place and be shown it. A perfect vessel for the force to counter the rising dark side.
The force doesn’t care about the emperors cruel regime, the force is not a person wrapped up in ideas like mercy or revenge or good and bad. It is a force, the force and its will is balance, with no concern for right and wrong.
@DrewLSsix How could he get it backwards when George Lucas himself stated that Anakin fulfilled the prophecy when he killed the Emperor? Are you saying that the creator of the Star Wars universe is wrong when it comes to understanding his own creation?
Numbers don't mean anything when it comes to balance in the Force. So what that there were thousands of Jedi in the galaxy and 2 Sith? Those Sith destroyed the Jedi and managed to rule the galaxy. The Force isn't divided between Light and Dark, Jedi and Sith. There is the Force which is within all living things. The dark side of the Force is the dark impulses: anger, fear, aggression. Too much of this in the galaxy, and there is an imbalance. This is what the Sith brought about with the Empire. You know when you use the Force correctly by being calm and at peace with yourself.
The will of the Force is to create balance, not imbalance. It creates peace and harmony, not death and destruction. That means that the Dark Side must be either extinguished or at the very least brought to heel. It's just like the balance in nature: you don't allow disease and destruction to destroy the plants and animals. It must be either sequestered to whither away and die or to be destroyed utterly. That's why Jedi profess not to kill prisoners. It's the will of the Force.
There's a great video somewhere that puts forward the theory that Anakin was doomed to fail because he was scared of death. Qui Gon probably would not have made a difference. Anakin's fear of death of his loved ones is a constant in all three prequels, and the video mentions that it was one of the reasons he was too old to train. That fear needed to be erased to become a Jedi. But it was too late. Worth looking up the video-made a lot of sense to me:)
I'm glad you made this. I be been throwing this argument around since 2003. Now I can just share a video.
The reason I always liked him was that he saw value in EVERYONE - including Jar Jar Binks. Obi-Wan didn’t learn this lesson from him unfortunately and ended up too rigid. A great Jedi nonetheless, but too code obsessed at the cost of seeing the value or even differences in people.
Obi Wan saw what qui gons lack of rigidity earned him. Its natural he'd become more (pardon the phrase) conservative. Especially if he is tasked with a padawan of his own right after
And especially- especially if it meant a better chance of being on the council someday. Something that was not granted to the (again pardon the phrase) more liberal Jinn
Obi Wan should have followed Qui Gon's teachings after his death. It was the will of the force that made Obi Wan a jedi and placed him with Qui Gon after the counsel denied Obi Wan to become a padawan.
but he did follow the will of the force (he just don't knew it). At the end Anakin fulfilled his purpose in the prophecy at destroying both the Jedi order and Sidius, bringing balance to the force and a new era of renewal
Qui Gon Jinn is always and will always be my favorite Jedi.
This is why prequels are secretly brilliant!!
I agree. The story behind the Prequels is fantastic.
The Phantom Menace is my personal favourite. And 4th best SW movie in my book. I can't fathom how ridiculous TFA and TLJ were. Some high points (nostalgia, oscar isaac) but the rest is pure reheated trash. I still can't believe it. Long live Qui Gon (and Liam Neeson)
nothing about the prequels make sense. Just a bunch of made up shit made on the go.
I think you may be confusing the prequel trilogy with the sequel trilogy.
There is nothing confusing about the 2 trilogies and neither is the plot on the Force Awakens or Last Jedi. Sure it wasnt perfect but holy mother of god, the prequels are absolute dogshit of a mess.
I truly believe that Qui- Gon was the most powerful Jedi and true Jedi n he's very underrated he is star wars even in his short part of the saga
Not the most powerful. He is the wisest of them all.
Star Wars ends after Episode 6. Change my mind.
Yes, but there is so much that happened to bring us up to that point... which essentially begs the question: What ignited the war between the Jedi & the Sith in the first place ? Do you accept the Jedi lies ? Remember that history is always told by the victors. You've only ever seen & heard one perspective. Please commune with the force so that you may discover the truth.
1 more episode of the sequel trilogy to go, who knows? maybe 3rd times the charm?
He said "change his mind," but I don't think he even read what I wrote, which makes his challenge disingenuous because he doesn't even respond if we succeeded or failed to change his mind & why.
I think his low IQ brain literally exploded when I simultaneously agreed & disagreed with him...
He was like HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE ??? ...Well young padawan, let me put it in more simple terms that your tiny brain can digest: As was told in the Matrix: *Every Beginning has an End.* So while yes, I agree that we've seen the END of Stars Wars, I honestly believe we've never seen the Beginning. The whole Star Wars universe really begs the question: What ignited the war between the Sith and the Jedi in the first place ? What led to the creation of the first Jedi Council ? I personally believe that the entire Star Wars universe is a historical fabrication by the Jedi: Lies & propaganda. I think the historical TRUTH of what really happened is far more interesting.
now now, no need to insult someone for not replying. what if he got hit by a car the next day and is still in a coma somewhere in a hospital? while the odds of that are low, we don't know?
maybe he got convinced by your comment but felt too ashamed to reply so he just decided to disappear back into the endless mist of the internet. (the introvert technique)
or maybe he just doesn't know how to use youtube properly and posted the comment with no idea that notifications is a thing? or he doesn't care enough to check!
whatever the reason is it doesn't matter! its just a youtube comment! its about as irrelevant as things can be in this world! so lets move on with our lives now as better people and not call each other stupid for such meaningless things. may the force be with you :)
If you haven't already read it, I think you might really enjoy the novel Darth Plagueis. The titular character has much to say about the Jedi that you'd find interesting.
Thor, you are steadfast and in tune with the force. You are the Qui-Gon Jinn of Star Wars RUclipsrs.
That is maybe the best compliment I've ever gotten on here. Thank you.
You're welcome
Thor Skywalker - The force is strong with you!
I for one think he's right! You are the Qui-gon Jin of Star Wars RUclipsr's!
P.S. I'm a little jealous lol! 😆
Master Gui-Gon f'in Jinn is my favorite Star Wars character, always has been since I was a kid. Yoda calls him master.
i wish we could have a film about qui-gon's entire life! he's such an awesome character: depth, complexity, adversity, heartbreak, wisdom, courage. easily be an excellent film.
Imagine if obi wan Kenobi just walked up to Qui Gon and resurrected him by giving up some of his force energy
With regard to QGJ being called, "grey," I only recall the description appearing in some Expanded Universe materials, to the tune of, "*Some called* Qui-Gon a grey Jedi, because he wouldn't follow the Council....." That's as far as it goes for me.
What I'd really like to say, is to congratulate you on what may be, in 19 years, the first truly valid critique of the "midi-chlorians" concept I've ever heard! Unlike many self-styled fans, I've never deplored the idea's introduction outright, and I even felt that it made a great deal of sense at the time. But your insight into what it may have symnbolozied about Jedi thinking at the time, particularly as the wrong thing for the Council to focus on, makes just as much sense to the story. That really is a first.
Nick Hentschel The movies never say that midi-chlorians are supposed to be a good thing to focus on. All the people who talk midi-chlorians end up dead or homeless.
After Qui-Gon, I think Ahsoka was the closest thing to a true Jedi, but (ironically) only after she left the Jedi order. Once she was just an unaffiliated light side force user, she was led by the Force to help the Rebels, but perhaps more importantly (and I partially base this on possible information that we don't have yet) comes across Ezra. I think what may have sparked the "real Jedi" in Ahsoka may have been Barriss Offee's words to the court after Anakin captured her...that the Jedi had lost their way and become defacto agents of the dark side. Misguided as Barriss's way of bringing change may have been, I think people underestimate the effect that those words had on Ahsoka.
I 100% agree with you and the story you mentioned really shows the downfall of the Jedi Order. Barriss was meant to be a healer, and so her involvement during the Clone Wars broke her and made her do terrible things for the right reasons. While Ahsoka, only after turning away from the Jedi, was able to truly embrace the light. (God, I love the Prequel era! So many great stories!)
Truly great points! MTFBWY!
Exactly, just as a church building is not by necessity a house of God, the Jedi order is not necessarily an adherer of the light. Ashoka and Qui Gon understood that as Jedi, the light was more important than legalism.
Who are BO and Ezra?
Or Barriss Offee may have been spouting BS as a last ditch effort to harm the Jedi and spread discontent. Once she went full-on bad guy, anything she said should be taken with a grain of salt.
the Jedi died when kenobi joined the council and the Jedi was reborn when luke created his lightsaber
The Jedi died through Windu's hubris. I'm not sure that they are reborn either after the sequel trilogy, though of course the Sith are at least dead as an Order.
Will of the Force?
Influence lost (-): Kreia.
THANK YOU
Finally someone else gets it... although I would argue that Yoda in ESB and Luke at the end of ROTJ as he tosses his saber, are true Jedi as well.
True Jedi live in peace and harmony, following the will of the Force, seeking the good of all life, turning from selfishness and death. They use the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.
The prequels would have been better if in Ep 1, the Jedi were scattered around the galaxy, trying to seek justice in their local communities (a la Ghandi) through non-violent resistance and defense. (The lightsaber being a symbol of defense and deflection of laser blasts.) Anyone sentient could come to train to be a Jedi, as the Force is in and through all living things - but those who seek to use this power for their own selfish means would start down the dark path which ultimately destroys them - until they return to self sacrifice for the good of others.
Ep 1 should have started with this picture of TRUE Jedi, and Ep 2-3 displaying their downfall as some of them start to join ranks with the Senate, and their powers used now for attack and war. Joining the Senate/Republic should have been clearly shown to be the downfall of the Jedi religion.
(This would mirror the story of Jesus, the most perfect human, and then the subsequent downfall of "Christians" as the Catholic church becomes wrapped up in government under Constantine, to be used as a tool of the State...)
Yes... starting the prequel trilogy with the Jedi already tools of the Republic muddies the storytelling of what the Jedi are really supposed to be. They should've started from their own remote Enclaves, such as the one on Dantooine in KOTOR, rather than the massive temple next to the Senate building on metroplanet Coruscant.
This is what Disney should be doing now
I have seen many arguments that Yoda using a light saber is terrible because it goes completely against his peace loving characteristics in the Empire Stikes Back. Now that you say this it makes me realise that it is nonsense, the Yoda we see in the prequels is "young" and slightly naive, it is only after failing to defeat palpatine that he realises that violence is not the answer.
Just finished the clone wars. There are several times that the Republic and Senate threaten to and successfully remove Republic Clone activities. This is in the same context which shows Anakin beginning to develop relentless war tactics as akin to Tarkin's. This removal of the Jedi's role in the clone activities serves two purposes: 1. To prevent them from learning of Order 66 or influencing clones to sympathize with the Jedi 2. (Which your post has enlightened me to) Work to convince the Jedi that their actual duty is to the Republic/ Senate and the war instead of to the force. Palpatine let them get very caught up in the war, then openly reminds them they are peace keepers. The Jedi by this point have already lost their way to the point, that they are eager to defend their right to be apart of military preceding.
The Jedi in the prequels were wholly evil, what with being Generals and killing people in wars. Hell, they even used flamethrowers on sentients! How is that keeping the peace? That's just murder!
Qui Gon Jinn is my favorite Jedi MASTER! You said he was a knight and that is wron he led one apprentice to knighthood a second fell to the dark side and obi wan was his third... qui gon was everything you explained him to be and more. This video was all about The will of the force. His emotional lessons help too. This video is top notch my friend, much love 💜💜💜
I did think that Qui-Gon Jinn was a grey Jedi because in the movies it seems he wasn't in the favor of the council. We only learn later that he was once offered a seat on the council and that he declined. I may have not understood the dialog in the film and be wrong but thats how I took it. Qui-Gonn however still remaines one of my favorite Jedi. Now you explain reasons why my thinking may have been wrong, but that makes Qui-Gon an even better character. Good video and makes you think!
THANK YOU! The whole Gray Jedi thing is absurd. It’s basically “I want to be a badass warrior monk, but ignore my superiors and the code whenever I feel like it. But I swear I’m not a Sith. Sith are bad, and I swear I’m a good person.” That kind of pride leads to the dark side. I would add to this that I don’t think Qui-Gon had any problem obeying the council for missions and such. Being a true Jedi, he would be eager to lend a hand to people in need when asked, so long as doing so didn’t cause bigger problems.
Bradley Poole Ah But the idea that someone could balance the use of the force and use both the dark and the light side for a greater purpose doesn’t fit your description exactly. They don’t have to be defiant to be grey. Just only do what they believe is correct I. Their heart. Sometimes this requires tough love like when you tell a kid he can’t eat a chocolate bar for dinner. Or that he has to go to bed on time. Or more to the point use a dark side power to achieve a positive goal such as Luke did with force choke in the Jabbas palace. Sometimes being firm and even harnessing darkness is required to maintain balance. When Yin is deficient tonify Yin. When Yang is deficien tonify Yang.
I see what, you are saying, Isaac. However, I do not think there can be a greater purpose than balancing the Force, which is what a true Jedi (using the Light Side) should strive for. Anything else, no matter how grand the vision or just the cause, is a distraction at best and,at worst, a step towards the "might makes right" attitude of the Dark Side. This is a problem, even if it does come in a kind, paternalistic package. (BTW, Light does not necessarily mean nice.) After witnessing the fall of Anakin Skywalker, I'm not convinced that any being's heart can tell the difference between the will of the Force and their own will, unless said being constantly practices self abnegation and self surrender to others. The moment you dedicate yourself to that kind of selflessness, you abandon the Dark side, and with it any possibility of being "gray."
Bradley Poole fair enough you are entitled to your opinion. But I believe that in order to balance you need dark or there will be unbalance naturally just as sure as the sun sets every day. And this trying to maintain balance with only light is impossible and only creates an imbalance in doing so and that’s why Palpatine rose to power and why the Sith keep rising because there is such a huge offset of light throwing off the balance in such a strong way an equally strong darkness arises. When we got to the time of the last Jedi it was Darkness arising and light to counter it.
Qui-Gon Jinn is absolutely my favorite character in the prequels. All the other characters weren’t really great until Star Wars: The Clone Wars.
I've always felt this way about Qui-Gon. Truthfully, I always had the impression that the real reason Obi-Wan didn't follow in his path even though he seems to have many similar feelings is that he's been told all his life both that he wasn't good enough and no one wanted him and that he needed to shut up and conform. I mean that in the nicest possible way, but he almost washed out of the Jedi Order (through no fault of his own) and at that point I can imagine that experience being traumatic enough to make him desperate to be a "good Jedi".
Add to that he took on Anakin immediately after Qui-Gon dies and without even a mourning period, goes straight from conflicted apprentice to a master who needs to look like he knows what he's doing (because training Anakin at all was going against the council, because he was too young to be training Anakin, etc. I can imagine a fear of losing his Padawan because somebody thinks he's doing it wrong).
And during the time when he's trying to learn how to, in essence, be a substitute parent and a teacher for a child with issues he's never faced, his only sources of advice are people who will tell him all the wrong things. Qui-Gon was already dead.
We see pretty clearly in the movies/shows that Obi-Wan indulges Anakin much more than he should by Jedi standards, that he's more often than not privately in agreement with Anakin but feels he should keep to the standards he's been taught, that he is expected to keep tabs on Anakin and correct his behavior by other more "proper" Jedi long after Anakin has become a Knight.
This was brought up in the EU, but basically since Qui Gon was already a hippie rebel, how does his teenage apprentice Obi Wan Kenobi rebel against that? By being a By-the-Book type.
Incredible observation! Honestly, completely superb, you have have touched on a subject I've secretly been suspicious of as far back as I remember.... Applause
Absolute great video and incredibly respectable (not a "word") reasoning. There's a ton at length I could think of to speak in, but I'll say in short I feel you'd make a great defense attorney for the innocent.
I would love to see a movie/show which followed Count Dooku and Qui-Gon Jinn. It would move back-and-forth between different times, showing Dooku’s frustration with the council and mourning the loss of his Padawan, to Qui-Gon’s journey to learn how to become a force ghost and his tutelage under Dooku. Even showing what he would teach a youngling Obi-Wan. It could really show the true principles of the Jedi and the decay of the order.
Really a brilliant Video. Before i watched your Video i count myself to the people who thaught Qui-Gon was a Grey Jedi, but now i agree with you and think, that Qui-Gon was the only true Jedi at this time. Thanks for opening my eyes and greetings from Germany :)
The other day, my brother and I were watching The Clone Wars episodes were Qui-Gon talks to Yoda. I was telling him more about Qui-Gon’s view of the Force. My brother’s response was “Wow. Qui-Gon’s awesome!” The conversation actually sparked an idea for a Star Wars Tabletop RPG session. My brother’s character, an Alderaanian former Imperial scientist turned Rebel, crash lands on a planet with an ancient Jedi Temple. The Temple will be populated by a group of Jedi that are more in line with Qui-Gon’s view of the Force. These Jedi thought that the Order was becoming too involved with the Republic, and took a self imposed exile. (I’m debating when the spilt should happen. Originally I was thinking 1000 BBY, but now I’m thinking of having the split happen sometime during the Clone Wars. That way, I can tell the story of my OT character’s father during the Clone Wars.) These Jedi took an old transport ship, and meditated, allowing the Force to guide them to a new home. (I’m thinking of making it Typhon or Ossis) Due to their exiled status, they were wiped from the Jedi records. Only those than knew them personally would remember them, and have any idea where they went. Back to the plot, my brother’s character would then meet my character, a Jedi Consular. My character has never left his home planet, and has spent most of his time studying. He longs for something new, feeling that the Force wants him to travel the stars. He helps the stranded Rebel, and together they convince the Grand Master to allow one Jedi (my character) to leave the planet, as long as he keeps records of everything he sees. The Rebel and the Jedi then fly off in a battered old transport, in search of the Rebellion and new knowledge.
Oi Thor what’s your take on George’s original take on the sequel trilogy? There’s a lot of articles talking smack about it but obviously most of the fanbse that has common sense supports it.
It's hard to say because he didn't say much about it other than bringing the Whills into the picture. But the key is that it would've no doubt expanded Star Wars in a new way, instead of retreading which is what the sequel trilogy is doing.
And see thats the thing it would've explained what was the point and the reasoning behind the force. Basically explaining the "magic system" that most people i would say wanted to find out for a while.
I know people think that explaining the Force in this way makes the Force less mysterious but I find that it makes more so. The problem with the sequel trilogy is that it’s just a bunch of fans interpreting the Force how they like it, whether Abrams or Johnson, but neither having a deeper understanding of what Lucas sees it as.
probably still better than what Disney is producing right now
I agree with everything (almost) that you said. It was apparent to me from the beginning that he wasn't rebelling against the Council, but following the will of the Force, and he says as much through the film. Interesting parallels here with some mystical teachings here on planet Earth.
This video has made me want to go watch the prequels again and take a new look at episode one. Looking at it with the idea that Qui Gon was a true jedi makes perfect sense. Maybe there is more to episode one than I give it credit for. Thanks for this video.
I think its interesting watching you take a break from talking about the sequel trilogy to talk about this.
Totally agree. Qui-Gon defines what a Jedi is supposed to be. What we saw in the prequels were Jedis unknowingly manipulated by the Sith. As a result being twisted without their knowledge.
You got a nice voice, Sir.
Thanks.
Also the video was extraordinary, excuse me for not saying that before.
Excellent Thor, very thoughtful as always. Thank you.
I love your take on this.
I had no idea Qui-Gon Jinn was that important! Thank you for posting!
This video is very well written and perfectly explains my shared views on qui gon
Wow, good theory, I love it!
There was a very popular college paper on the internet about Qui Gon that I read right around the time Phantom Menace came out. It basically explains why Qui Gon is so important and is much more than people think. He has been my favorite "movie" jedi ever since. Over 20 years now.
That's a very interesting hypothesis, I must say, and it does make sense.
I'd love to see a conversation between kreia and qui-gon. They probably wouldn't get along very well, but it'd be interesting
Qui-Gon was one of my favorite Jedi of the Prequel Trilogy.
I agree, qui gon was the actually version of a true jedi. Council hates him because they couldn’t control him like they did each other
Let's be honest Qui Gon learnt the force ghost thing because the plot needed it.
Beautifully said...you nailed it.
My boy qui gon really be getting them LEGO studs doe 😳😳😳
Wonder if jinn was an enlightened Jedi ?
Kinda cool how he seeks balance on both ends of the spectrum of light and dark.
He understood that you cannot eliminate the dark or the light completely and how they are both needed to add contrast to one another.
Reminds me of Buddhism, how the only way to reach enlightenment is to embrace both the positive and negative aspects of life as equal and needed to see the truth on how the middle way is the only true way for peace for everyone and yourself.
its amazing how far out of context we can get from one film but at the same time it becomes truth.
Quit gonn earned my respect in TPM video game for ps1... Been a fan ever since.
Had the creators of the prequils understood the Force as you have described it here, the would have been able to show what it looks like to bring balance to the force: having Jedi who follow the force and not politicians. It would have been a heart wrenching power struggle to see Leia, a Supreme Chancellor politician struggling to lead the new Senate against the rising power of the First Order trying to convince her brother Luke, leading the authentic Jedi to go back to the old ways of the Jedi supporting them. The new characters they brought in would be stuck picking sides... Kylo could have been a Jedi who picked his mom's side... and look what happened.
You just earned yourself a subscribe. Great video.
If he had survived the first movie; I have always thought that he would have ended up becoming Darth Tyranus
What I wanna know is.. why did Obi Wan say to Luke that Yoda is "the Jedi master who instructed me", and Qui-Gon Jinn was his master in the prequals?
Or was it only true from a certain point of view what he told Luke?
Well, Yoda likely trained Obi-Wan up till the age of twelve or thirteen or so... until he become Qui-Gon's Padawan. Which means Yoda essentially taught Obi-Wan the basics.... which is what Yoda was going to do for Luke as well.
also Yoda did train Obi-wan again after they went to exile.
Yeah like already stated master yoda insisted on having involvement in all younglings training
the younglings were under Yoda's tutelage until they got teamed to a master for field training. so , in essence Yoda taught all the jedi, but also, Luke did not know any any other jedis, so Obi-Wan probably said that just to make Luke more comfortable and to drive his desire continue his training, since Obi Wan was dead and Yoda could teach Luke how to get to the next level of training.
REALLY...? I swear, people and fanatics in general will justify anything. The truth is Qui-Gon had not been written yet...he didn't exist ...duh. So Obi Wan and Yoda were used to explain things. It's not that hard. And one other thing... and Lucas stated this as well...Darth Maul is dead....PERIOD. Now things are totally screwed up because Dweebs/Hypergeeks cry so much that they will bring back dead characters if it means money. Well... now you have Star Wars in all it's Liberal Glory and it's thanks to the cry babies. Bringing back Maul was a liberal maneuver straight up. Duh.
Damn...great point. Never thought of it like that.
What's interesting is that, in the main star wars series (episodes 1-6), the first and last Jedi we see are the only true Jedi.
I agree
I will make only one correction to your video.
Qui-Gon never completed his training to become a Force Ghost. He was only able to communicate but never to show a spectral form as he tells Yoda because he was killed before he could finish the training under the Whills.
My hypothesis is either that it wasn't Qui-Gon himself on Mortis and it was just an illusion such as a future Ahsoka or the Brother when he appeared as Shmi to Anakin.
Or....the Father actually gave Qui-Gon for that short time the full ghost form. That he granted it to Qui-Gon since he needed him for that time to show himself fully to Obi-wan to give him some guidance.
You are right. I didn't clarify that Qui-Gon hadn't completed his training and couldn't fully manifest. Nevertheless the success he did achieve was still vitally important.
I also agree it wasn't the real Qui-Gon on Mortis, especially considering he did indeed manifest there. Then again, I suppose it is possible since Mortis clearly played by a different set of rules then the rest of the galaxy.
Have you read The Last of the Jedi book series from 2005-2010? Qui Gon comes to Obiwan on Tattooine as a Force voice
ASMR Ross never read those but those books are Legends. So unless Disney says he can do it off Mortis, which in tCW he States he cant, it's not canon.
I dont care what Disney says "Is" or "Is not" "Canon. Star Wars is fake. Canon is what you choose it to be. The people at Disney arent even star wars fans
ASMR Ross sure, it's fake. But Disney does control it and have final say over what is or isn't official. We may say one thing is the correct version and whatnot, but doesn't change what the owners of it say.
Very well done. Like all of your points and it’s a great argument. Had always figured he was more grey, but this helped change my mind. No longer grey Jedi, but true jedi
I never realized that being a Great Jedi had such stipulations about it. This just makes me wish even more that instead of sequels, Disney would make alternative universe versions of the old stories, ones where Qui Gon survives and maybe Obi Wan dies, or they manage to defeat Darth Maul together and go from there. That'd be cool
Wow didn’t even see it from that perspective good vid need more on prequel jedi lore🌞
I agree with your evaluation... Quo Gon was really the last TRUE Jedi. I like where you go with your theories and projections
Qui Gon is such an underrated character. Definitely a candidate for a spin off movir imo, perhaps about his time training obi wan as his padawan, or even as himself being a padawan to dooku. I'd love to see either of those.
I agree with you. Qui-Gon Jinn was a sterling example of a Jedi master. Qui-Gon represented what the order was before The Jedi became arrogant and more of a police force regulated by the Senate. Luke pointed out The Jedi Knights arrogance of power to Rey in The Last Jedi.
So all that suggests for me that between the red barriers on naboo when he meditated, he had visions of the future, of his death, of anakin needing to become a sith, and overcame his fear of death and letting someone he cares for turn to the dark side in the name of the force, trusting in it´s way completely. Thus, he gained the ability to become a force ghost at last. But in the fight with Maul, he intentionally used light saber form x to trick Maul into thinking his Padawan will do the same. By that, he creates an opportunity for Obi-Wan to exploit that inception and defeat Maul. So in the end, Qui-Gon has one of the greatest impacts on the whole story and the success of the jedi.
i never thought that he was a grey jedi but a strongly commited one.
Qui gon never finished his training and only appeared as a voice both in a book series by the same author of Jedi apprentice and that episode you mentioned was strong in the force allowing him to appear
Star Wars: Episode 1: The Last Jedi - This title makes a lot more sense for this movie.
He had a very specific set of skills
I've thought for a while that Qui-Gon was meant to train Anakin, who was supposed to be a true hero liberating slaves & never turning to the Dark Side, and the recent book "Master & Apprentice" by Claudia Gray only strengthened this thought in my mind.
Why do I think that if yoda had died before qui gon he would have been the first being to become a force ghost.
The name Darth Vader 'Dark Father' is also (In)Vader as he both invades and destroys the Jedi and Sith from within, causing a moment of balance as there was no true jedi or sith alive, Luke has messed that up recreating the Jedi order.
I think calling Qui-Gon a Grey Jedi works perfectly in the context of the expanded universe, as it shifts around the nature of the Force and the Jedi and Sith. In the context of what is canon right now, then calling him a "True Jedi" works surprisingly well.
Qui Gon Jin is the true example of what it is to be a Jedi master in the now extinct republic.
He defended the balance of force as a true warrior but also as a great negotiator aspiring to peace, he was not interested in the approval of anyone what made him someone with a lot of conviction.A magnificent character and one of my favorites in the complete saga , for if he would watch a series in Disney plus as the protagonist or only cameo hahaha
The design of your lightsaber is my favorite.
Greetings Star Wars Master.
He was the first Jedi to achieve immortality. That's crazy. 1000 generations couldn't figure it out
He's a true Jedi. I love this video. Never thought about things this way. Amazing
What about Count Dooku's comment to Obi-wan about Qui-gon's true motives?
Qui-gon is no doubt the best character in phantom menace, it's a shame he was killed so abruptly before they could flesh him out more
Maybe we can get a qui-gon show with a young obiwan!
Boggless that would be awesome! But I would even take a comic book as well
I think Shmi staying on Tatooine is the Will of the Force so that there will be people to raise Luke after Anakin becomes Darth Vader and a place for Obi-wan to continue his force ghost training and be there to take Luke with him once Owen and Beru are dead, which means Leia being caught by the Empire was also the will of the Force!
Great analysis. Spot on.
I think that the label of "Grey Jedi" is so often given to Qui-Gon because we can see that he's Different than the other Jedi. And since the other Jedi are the Jedi, that means that he needs the different label. To me, it's not a matter of "edgier", it's a matter of "Qui-Gon is clearly different and I need a way to articulate that". I like this perspective much better, though, so thank you for sharing!
Not only that he fell in love and still misses her
It would be cool to see Qui Gon live and train Anakin the way Qui Gon saw the force so that they can maybe overthrow the council and start their own Jedi training councils so that future Jedi would be trained “The way of the force” and Anakin will be able to train luke and leia and then they can start their own councils around the Galaxy and the Jedi would go on forever unlike The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi. So if Qui Gon lived, it would change the entire Canon. That’d be really cool to see.
My favorite Jedi, lived for the and followed the force, did what he wanted
He always seemed like the embodiment of what a Jedi is meant to be, or of someone who is trying to be what a Jedi is meant to be. But what is truly making him unique is this trait that he seems to have, that Yoda claims Anakin could not achieve. To be passionate but not attached at the same time. Passion about attachment causes the fear of loss. Yoda and the other masters were afraid. Palpatine was right when he said that those who gain power are fearing to lose that power and in terms of the Jedi codex, the Jedi shouldn't even have feared the destruction of their order. It's just another attachment.
A Jedi is not a warrior, not a monk, not a diplomat, not an ambassador, not a general and not a politician, and yet the traits Jedi train in are the must useful to have in either of these positions. They were used as diplomats, as they were capable of having an objective view on the situation and they were trusted that they seek the solution best for all.
This way they have been corrupted by the positions they seemed perfect for.
So is he a Grey Jedi? The council may have turned their back on him in some cases, but they respected him. And not just a little bit. His opinion has shown to have some weight within the Order, even though he seemingly did not desired it.
Kenobi also said that if he would follow the Council, he could have been a member himself. It seems that every Jedi desires to join the council as master, as this is the highest privilege within the order, which already is somewhat off for Jedi. It goes so far that not promoting a Jedi to the rank of Master but granting him other privileges which usually come along is seen as insulting.
At the same time Qui Gon didn't even seem to care that he could have a seat. It just doesn't seem important or even meaningful to him. Ep1 kind of establishes, that the Council and the Jedi as a whole are lead by attachment to the position they've gained. By the power they have.
So, Palpatine had a very good point against the Jedi. Dooku left the order because of their political meddling, and he was Qui Gons master. And Yoda seems to be somewhat in between, he teached Dooku, which means that he to a great amount influenced his view on how the Jedi should be, but then again he is "the" master. Maybe he has been to long part of the Order to see for himself and was only able to see at the moment the Order fell.
My good sir, great answer. Bravo.
While he wasn't a gray Jedi during the events of Phantom Menace, you could see he was starting to go gray, mostly on his beard.
The only thing I don't like about Qui Gon Jin is that he dies to early. But that's wasn't even his fault bc Darth Maul was trained specifically to kill Jedi. And if he hadn't died Anakin wouldnt have turned to the dark side later so I understand that he had to die for that sake of the story, but it still makes me sad.
I love the fact this is confirmed lol
I really love this video, and he will always be my favorite jedi in the series
People see Qui-Gon as a grey jedi because that's the label some now associate with being a "true jedi." He's committed to the will of the Force, which sometimes in the grand scheme of things, means weakening the Light Side.
One of the most unexplored aspects of jinns character in the films was his relationship with count dooku. If jinn had survived episode 1 we could have seen obi wan's resolve be shaken and challenged if Qui Gon took dookus side or withdrew from the war
If you really wanted to explore the grey side of the force that would have been a golden opportunity to work it into the prequel story. Heroes on both sides my ass