I’ve never known a group of people so eager to relinquish their right to think for themselves. The whole, “I’ve made up my mind and never have to think again” idea is just so repellent to me it blows my mind.
Its true.Hey, everybody! this Mormon is guaranteeing you 5,000 dollar's reward if we can prove that Joseph Smith is not written into the Bible by his date of 1830. wruclips.net/video/0-sxcrBjT14/видео.html He claims he can mathematically show the exact prophetic math where your Bible reveals Joseph Smith as the solution for the 666 beast.ruclips.net/video/CYcqAL4KTRQ/видео.html Also, He claims his RUclips video part 9 breaks down all the right Bible verses in both Daniel and Revelation with the book of Abraham. ruclips.net/video/qQkeXB4qisg/видео.html. I say we take him upon it and go to the Salt lake tribune and publicly make him pay out the money. Can anyone here show the entire world that the Bible proves his claim false and collect 5,000 bucks?
I know, it is very difficult to break free. Pray for them.😥💔🙏 l got free from a multi generational pioneer stock Mormon family . Nelson was in my stake. I am now a born again Christian , all glory to God!!
Change doesn’t happen unless a brave and bold person takes that first step. I am with you 1000%. I have your back. Thanks Nemo, your hard work and great attitude are contagious. YOU ARE HELPING SO MANY PEOPLE.
Its true.Hey, everybody! this Mormon is guaranteeing you 5,000 dollar's reward if we can prove that Joseph Smith is not written into the Bible by his date of 1830. wruclips.net/video/0-sxcrBjT14/видео.html He claims he can mathematically show the exact prophetic math where your Bible reveals Joseph Smith as the solution for the 666 beast.ruclips.net/video/CYcqAL4KTRQ/видео.html Also, He claims his RUclips video part 9 breaks down all the right Bible verses in both Daniel and Revelation with the book of Abraham. ruclips.net/video/qQkeXB4qisg/видео.html. I say we take him upon it and go to the Salt lake tribune and publicly make him pay out the money. Can anyone here show the entire world that the Bible proves his claim false and collect 5,000 bucks?
@@richarddick2955 first of all he’s not paying anything because he is so blindly believing he thinks he is right and will never concede that BOA and BOM aren’t true. He’s a TBM that is a lost cause.
I can't believe the people in the comments on the original video from the other day. People think it's brilliant to not question the Prophet for the next 30 days. What a brilliant idea! For a mind controlling group that is
I would love for the leaders to speak on grace , the grace of our Lord which is sufficient ! The church is all about WORKS whereby the Lord says "My grace is sufficient.He who believes on me is mine.
Yes , the LDS church Third article of Faith we believe we are saved by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel. This is not grace. Come to the true Christ of the Holy Bible who does offer real grace unlike the Mormon Jesus who does not.
The part where Wendy describes doing all you can yourself before asking for help makes me sad because a single mother like mine could have used so much charitable help from the Church and statements like Wendy's kept her from ever asking.
This might be a peculiarly American reference, but the only thing Wendy missed mentioning is the time that Pres. Nelson chopped down a cherry tree, then, when asked by Dallin Oaks if he had done it, said "I cannot tell a lie, I cut it down with my little hatchet."
This discussion was insightful! I can't believe that I used to believe a lot of these statements! Incredible that I didn't use my critical thinking or reasoning skills! Brilliant video! I appreciate you all for the work you people do! ❤️🇬🇧❤️🇺🇸⚔️❤️
I wonder if true believing Mormons are beginning to see that their leaders are scared to death. They are almost at a panic stage as they witness the collapse of the Church. Even though the city I am in has lost two wards in less than year, the members don't seem to have a care in the world. At some point this Alice in Wonderland experience is going to end and it is going to be an unmitigated disaster.
Is anyone else not concerned about Wendy and the fact that she gave this talk in the first place? I have heard Wendy talk a number of times and she is intelligent and educated and her work experience is in family therapy and counselling. She seems to be a good woman who has spent her life trying to help people but here she is giving a talk and giving advice to members on how to deal with their religious life with advice that is based on behaviours that can be seen in cults. She is telling the members to accept everything the prophet says EXACTLY without question but question every other source outside of the church. I am sure with her education she is aware of what constitutes a cult and she must also be aware that the church adamantly states it is not a cult. So what is actually is going on here? Why did the church even want Wendy to give this talk in the first place?
Maybe she polls well with the members so they trot her out hoping even those on the brink will be impressed with her admonitions to just simply OBEY and stop questioning her husband’s authority. (And don’t take a close look at our new clothes.)
I know what you mean because to me Wendy comes across as a really nice person and to me she comes across as someone you would become friends with if you knew her, I think the church sees this as her appeal. This however is an "us -against them" talk, a talk pre-approved by the church. Educationally and career wise she and I have a lot in common and yet giving a talk like this is light years away from anything I would ever consider thinking or saying. Because it alienates people,it does not encourage a love and coming together of peoples. I would not want to think this talk contains all her own personal ideas.
When I was a missionary I saw the "missionary" voice all the time by my buddies. I never built up the courage to tell them they were just putting on a show.
Its true.Hey, everybody! this Mormon is guaranteeing you 5,000 dollar's reward if we can prove that Joseph Smith is not written into the Bible by his date of 1830. wruclips.net/video/0-sxcrBjT14/видео.html He claims he can mathematically show the exact prophetic math where your Bible reveals Joseph Smith as the solution for the 666 beast.ruclips.net/video/CYcqAL4KTRQ/видео.html Also, He claims his RUclips video part 9 breaks down all the right Bible verses in both Daniel and Revelation with the book of Abraham. ruclips.net/video/qQkeXB4qisg/видео.html. I say we take him upon it and go to the Salt lake tribune and publicly make him pay out the money. Can anyone here show the entire world that the Bible proves his claim false and collect 5,000 bucks?
Only if God changes his mind about many crucial things every 6 months or so. Some could interpret this as blasphemy, claiming that God is indecisive, wishy-washy, flaky, and capricious about so many things, like . . . race, polygamy, ordinances for children with LGBTQ parents, Adam-God, blood atonement, the efficacy and value of the U. N., the name of the Church, etc., etc., etc.
Thank you to the girl in the bottem right corner. Great comments. These leaders do not speak truth! Blasphemy, heresy! Their time is short. Wolves in sheep's clothing. -Fine woolen suits. They lie so well. They do speak smooth and comfortable things, easy things. They know how to appear good. Cursed is the man who trusts in the arm of flesh. Lying is an art form for them. It is scary to listen to them. Call no man your leader. Jesus is the truth , the life and the way.He is the only door.
This was so good even though I cringed the entire time! Wow! What did I just watch?? Thank you guys! Your commentary was so spot on every time I had a thought, you would mention it. I loved most of all where a prophet will be destroyed if he leads the church astray...and every prophet before him is dead 🤯😂. Just a simple brilliant point
Wendy knows the Good Ship Zion has hit an iceberg. She is desperately trying to bail water out of Rusty’s lifeboat, and hoping no one will notice him shuffling the deck chairs ….😵💫 Keep bailing Wendy….🪣
@@kennethd.9436 I know it's funny, but just to let you know...Xenu is actually the Scientology version of a Devil. They believe he committed a mass genocide by dropping billions of alien beings into volcanoes on Earth as a way to control population growth on his home planet. The spirits of these murdered aliens then attached to human bodies and are responsible for every single bad thing in human history. No Scientologists would ever praise him.
"prophets speak the truth" reminds me of the Nixon line that "if the president does it, it's legal" - here it's "if the prophet says it, it's true" - regardless of what it is or when it is reversed/expires...
This insistence on the infallibility of leaders is new. I distinctly recall as a child hearing (1940s-50s) from ward and branch pulpits that one difference between M'ism and Catholicism was the LDS did not believe their leaders infallible. There are lots of stories abt this bishop or that apostle or colony leader resisting Brigham Young's pronouncements. They followed him because he was right most of the time and church programs were usually in their interest. (I have to say, as a long-lapsed Mormon, I'm rather proud of Pres. Nelson's recent warnings abt vaccinating & masking in the face of so much nincompoopery in LDS conservative culture. As a former single mom & always primary provider for my household, I realized in the 1980s that, whereas the church seemed to want to keep me dependent, if my family and I were to survive I needed to stand on my own feet morally + financially. Thus we went our separate ways.)
Its true.Hey, everybody! this Mormon is guaranteeing you 5,000 dollar's reward if we can prove that Joseph Smith is not written into the Bible by his date of 1830. wruclips.net/video/0-sxcrBjT14/видео.html He claims he can mathematically show the exact prophetic math where your Bible reveals Joseph Smith as the solution for the 666 beast.ruclips.net/video/CYcqAL4KTRQ/видео.html Also, He claims his RUclips video part 9 breaks down all the right Bible verses in both Daniel and Revelation with the book of Abraham. ruclips.net/video/qQkeXB4qisg/видео.html. I say we take him upon it and go to the Salt lake tribune and publicly make him pay out the money. Can anyone here show the entire world that the Bible proves his claim false and collect 5,000 bucks?
37:30 It’s so messed up that she is telling us we need to be like the prophet. The scriptures explicitly state we should be like Jesus. We’re Christians, not Nelsonians.
Its true.Hey, everybody! this Mormon is guaranteeing you 5,000 dollar's reward if we can prove that Joseph Smith is not written into the Bible by his date of 1830. wruclips.net/video/0-sxcrBjT14/видео.html He claims he can mathematically show the exact prophetic math where your Bible reveals Joseph Smith as the solution for the 666 beast.ruclips.net/video/CYcqAL4KTRQ/видео.html Also, He claims his RUclips video part 9 breaks down all the right Bible verses in both Daniel and Revelation with the book of Abraham. ruclips.net/video/qQkeXB4qisg/видео.html. I say we take him upon it and go to the Salt lake tribune and publicly make him pay out the money. Can anyone here show the entire world that the Bible proves his claim false and collect 5,000 bucks?
I’m confused. All my long life as a member of the church I was taught there is ONE prophet on the earth to lead the church. Now all this talk about listening to the words of the “prophets”?
To say that "Prophets" won't lead you astray is a dangerous concept. Humanity is full of prophets and self claim chosen people to lead people to commit crimes and even taking their own lives. I have learned to distrust everyone that tells me I should trust them. When you hear the words: Trust me.. that is the moment when you need to become aware and elevate your personal compass..
I thought the same thing...Jesus is who way say we follow, but I'm not sure it is. Her whole talk was on how special her husband was, rather than about our Savior. So weird.
Hey Nemo, what are your thoughts all the crazy miracles you hear about from Joseph Smith times and Pioneers, compared to the “miracles” of today. I think it was Bednars talk awhile ago about some miracles he witnessed lol
The problem with miracle stories is that they’re a dime a dozen, and usually lack any sort of credible evidence whatsoever. Even worse, when examined further, they often have mundane explanations and or were greatly exaggerated to begin with. How interesting is it that as technology advances and our ability to record events with greater detail increases, the frequency of miracle claims decreases…that should tell us something.
Great insights Julian. Need to think critically about all information! And greater expectation of leadership from GA's about current issues (from a point of robust secular knowledge)
Something happens. Frank Sinatra’s mother referred to him using both names. My sister’s son is famous and she refers to him with first and last names. Like I wouldn’t know who she’s talking about if she says “Mike called.” Weird and creepy.
call him PRESIDENT "PRESDIENT" ""PRESIDENT"" """PRESIDENT"""" "" """PRESIDENT""""" ... ad infinitum!!!!! ....."NELSON" I could never understand why we Mormons worship the present current day prophet, no matter who he is, and are virtually commanded to emulate the lives of our fallible leaders, while giving unending lip service to Jesus CHrist. We are in effect told to worship TWO masters.
It would be interesting to know at what point was Wendy eyed to become the second wife of Pdt Nelson. She was quite accomplished and she lived in Utah. Does anyone know?
@@NEMOTHEMORMON According to Nelson's biography "Insights" which Sheri Dew wrote, Wendy and Sheri wrote a short greeting to Elder Nelson on a piece of paper which they gave to a former sister missionary they ran into in Italy, who promised to give it to Elder Nelson who would be coming to Rome to dedicate the first stake there. When Elder Nelson read the note, Wendy's name leaped off the page and all other words faded. He had a strong impression he should get to know Wendy. His first wife had passed away a few months earlier. Once he was back in Utah, he arranged a meeting with Wendy.
Sis. Nelson has written and taught several problematic and dangerous things. Her book "Not Even Once Club" is a great example of a damaging idea (which she echoed here with her comment about following with exactness). She's also taught damaging concepts about sexuality (gay relationships are a perversion). She wrote books about marriage and relationships prior to being married. While I'm sure she isn't some kind of super villain, I can see why she triggers people. I think she is a better speaker than her husband though. RMN seems like an android trying to imitate human emotions and expressions.
Its true.Hey, everybody! this Mormon is guaranteeing you 5,000 dollar's reward if we can prove that Joseph Smith is not written into the Bible by his date of 1830. wruclips.net/video/0-sxcrBjT14/видео.html He claims he can mathematically show the exact prophetic math where your Bible reveals Joseph Smith as the solution for the 666 beast.ruclips.net/video/CYcqAL4KTRQ/видео.html Also, He claims his RUclips video part 9 breaks down all the right Bible verses in both Daniel and Revelation with the book of Abraham. ruclips.net/video/qQkeXB4qisg/видео.html. I say we take him upon it and go to the Salt lake tribune and publicly make him pay out the money. Can anyone here show the entire world that the Bible proves his claim false and collect 5,000 bucks?
Jane, thank you for sharing the gospel with us through your testimony of the Savior and how it can bless your child’s life. It is true and the way I see it too. Keep the faith in the Savior and worship him and it will be good.
The Church propagates a spiritual, emotional, intellectual, mental, economic and cultural colonisation to narrowly define the human experience within their own narrow world view. Anything outside of that is vaguely tolerated on a superficial level, but ultimately is condemned to be the antithesis of godly approved behaviour. Also, why doesn’t the Church have a more prominent showing of Jesus Christ art at conference and in normal ward worship services. If Christ is the focus, why isn’t the conference centre auditorium redesigned to show their focus in a visual way?
@@truebloodnz That was a bit put there, but I was thinking about the elevated and dominant statue of Brigham Young at the entrance to temple square. Kinda focusing on a powerful man instead of Jesus.
@@leem3299 fair, leader worship, similar to the Joseph Smith and Hyrum Smith statues. All of those were planned well before the Christus statue was installed. Interesting isn’t it?
@@truebloodnz And concerning the temple spires - that Brigham Young told so many poor people God commanded them to build: "... Since the spires represent the Melchizedek Priesthood, the three also represent the three members of the LDS Church First Presidency, which is the highest governing priesthood body of the church." Brigham spoke with the voice of God to direct people to build him a monument for free. Clever.
That first comment about misogynistic comments (lady bottom right) was excellent and needed to be said! I don't mind slicing a person's presentation to ribbons, but only on the basis of content, not based on how attractive/ugly, married/unmarried, egotistical/humble the person may be. It's pure and vile sexism.
So... no clothes on... Holland calling the people leaving the church 'stupid' via labels such as bubble gum chewers... they have no clothes on... the GAs have no clothes... and the members are to tell them how great they look.../are.. no matter what they do or say..
This video reminds me of a book I used to use called “Where does it say that” which gave church history quotes and where you can find it. I think a newer book of just prophet quotes and where and when they said it would make a really interesting book.
Wendy is part of the Brigham Young professors by 1993 and very prominent speaker for the Church by 2000. Nelson's wife dies in Feb. 2005 and he marries Wendy in April of 2006.
I am greatly troubled...so, if and when they begin to tell the truth and repudiate their past transgressions, then the church is okay???! Suddenly it is divinely called? Not. The leadership of this church, and many others, have long destroyed lives and continue to do so. It doesn't matter if they believe what they say and not 'necessarily' lying or trying to be deceptive. Many of these teachings are not healthy and safe.
Its true.Hey, everybody! this Mormon is guaranteeing you 5,000 dollar's reward if we can prove that Joseph Smith is not written into the Bible by his date of 1830. wruclips.net/video/0-sxcrBjT14/видео.html He claims he can mathematically show the exact prophetic math where your Bible reveals Joseph Smith as the solution for the 666 beast.ruclips.net/video/CYcqAL4KTRQ/видео.html Also, He claims his RUclips video part 9 breaks down all the right Bible verses in both Daniel and Revelation with the book of Abraham. ruclips.net/video/qQkeXB4qisg/видео.html. I say we take him upon it and go to the Salt lake tribune and publicly make him pay out the money. Can anyone here show the entire world that the Bible proves his claim false and collect 5,000 bucks?
Its true.Hey, everybody! this Mormon is guaranteeing you 5,000 dollar's reward if we can prove that Joseph Smith is not written into the Bible by his date of 1830. wruclips.net/video/0-sxcrBjT14/видео.html He claims he can mathematically show the exact prophetic math where your Bible reveals Joseph Smith as the solution for the 666 beast.ruclips.net/video/CYcqAL4KTRQ/видео.html Also, He claims his RUclips video part 9 breaks down all the right Bible verses in both Daniel and Revelation with the book of Abraham. ruclips.net/video/qQkeXB4qisg/видео.html. I say we take him upon it and go to the Salt lake tribune and publicly make him pay out the money. Can anyone here show the entire world that the Bible proves his claim false and collect 5,000 bucks?
If using the term Banjo Players is a hate, put down, slap in the face in the face to a certain culture, they are on the road to bigoted hateful darkness of hell. :.
Thank you Jane for doing your best to keep ad hominem at bay. It's bad enough just looking at misuses of power, there's no need to call names or otherwise ad hominem.
Am I the only person who feels like they’re in an episode of “The Twilight Zone” or “1984”? What we need is a Pinnochio style way of telling whether the leaders are speaking truth or not. It would be interesting to see how long each leader’s nose was!
She seems like a sweet lady. But the things she says are all kinds of cringy. Wendy portrays the "culture" of the church that turns so many off. Talks like this turn people away from active membership.
About speakers writing their own talks... Check out Mormon Stories Episode 1450. The mother talks a bit about how she used to write the GC talks for some speakers, as well as other important speaking events like dedicatory prayers and they'd read it word-for-word. CRAZY!!!!!!!
21:25 It is so disgusting that Wendy teaches that I cannot understand the things that her husband can. I’m not saying he can’t be wiser or can’t prophesy, but she is saying I can’t be taught. He has special knowledge that I don’t have access but will he not teach. It is all “do not test, do not compare with scripture, just obey”. They are not interested in teaching, persuasion (D&C 121), being accountable to scriptures or the gospel, or allowing the Spirit to work within the body of Christ. Paul the apostle taught that if he teaches anything contrary to the gospel to cast him out! (Gal. 1:7-9) The church is accountable to the gospel, the gospel is not accountable to The Church™️.
@@debbieshrubb1222 Yes, she does. The President of the Church can make administrative changes, policy changes, new logos, and then they happen! 😆 Fulfilled revelation! I feel like there is an issue we are “not obeying” and they are angry about it but they won’t say what it is! His teachings have been: Covenant Path Women have the priesthood now Be grateful Don’t be racist Hear God for yourself Get vaccinated They won’t admit they are disturbingly defensive or explain why. That is why I bring up the need to teach. Maybe I’m just asking for honesty instead of this smiling, vague scolding.
@@debbieshrubb1222 It is highly problematic to get up the pulpit and warn the people of all the sinful and silly ideas that are out there and then not give examples or any idea of what those are. God’s thoughts are not our thoughts. They want to put their “thoughts” on the level of God’s thoughts and keep us in the dark. That scripture is not God’s go-ahead for prophets to be cryptic, superior, or silent.
I know this was posted months ago, but I'm hoping you read new comments that come up, Nemo. First: thank you. This channel has helped keep me grounded in my faith transition. One thing that I noticed in this "address" is slight tones of ableism coming from Wendy Nelson. Her comment on when RMN sees someone in a wheelchair and tells her they need to talk to them specifically after the meeting is done. Then, close to the end, this was said (and I'm parapharsing): there are people who struggle with chronic illness and disease. But we all have the struggle of constant spiritual progress and gospel study. As someone with a chronic and usually invisible yet painful chronic illness, these kinds of comments are disingenuous at best. Emotionally hurtful at worst. I don't want to stand out as a "prophet's" charity case for someone to point to me specifically to say, "She's young and is using a cane. She must be struggling. Let's go talk to her." By God, I don't need that bragged about and publicly stated in a continent wide meeting. What does a mobility device have anything to do with a Prophet coming to talk with that person, except for virtue signaling? I also don't need or want my illness compared to a spiritual struggle that *everyone* must go through. My chronic illness is mine, and I would not wish my pain and struggles on someone else, just so that they could get "closer to God" or whatever. It just seems like she really does not have a grasp of what someone with a chronic illness actually goes through. She may be a nice person. But, I meet "nice people" every week. Very rarely do I want a further conversation with them, because they are nice to me because they see my disability and not my person.
Hypocrisy is one thing, but then the irony is excruciatingly flabbergasting. I can’t fake serious anymore on this story on the Emperor’s lack of couture. They can’t get in front of their own dilemma. Maybe we see what they can’t see? It has passed funny and sped on to sad as they marginalize and confuse. Alana said it best…Just who are they trying to convince here? The lack of critical thinking is alarming. They are tone impaired. They are just chewing the same old cud and celebrating idiocracy. It must be immobilizing. I haven’t thrown the baby out with the bath water, but they are truly riding my last gay nerve as if this were a monster truck rally. Holy sheep sh*t, sorry, …. LLAMA FRITTERS!. Thanks y’all. Go Team Avengers! 🤓she said irrevocably 🤣💜💜💜💚💚💚💜💜💜
It took me years to realize that the entire LDS organization is a Primary and that, as the rank and file, those without lineage or connections, we were all expected to behave like children, and were of course treated as such. The patronizing continues to this day.
@@annwood6812 It's an observation and question. Your life experience, including whether you have had children, will 100% inform and influence the content of your talks. For example, Wendy wrote a detestable children's book called The Not Even Once Club which was filled dangerous teachings on toxic perfectionism. Maybe she goes a different direction if she's actually raised a kid or two.
Its true.Hey, everybody! this Mormon is guaranteeing you 5,000 dollar's reward if we can prove that Joseph Smith is not written into the Bible by his date of 1830. wruclips.net/video/0-sxcrBjT14/видео.html He claims he can mathematically show the exact prophetic math where your Bible reveals Joseph Smith as the solution for the 666 beast.ruclips.net/video/CYcqAL4KTRQ/видео.html Also, He claims his RUclips video part 9 breaks down all the right Bible verses in both Daniel and Revelation with the book of Abraham. ruclips.net/video/qQkeXB4qisg/видео.html. I say we take him upon it and go to the Salt lake tribune and publicly make him pay out the money. Can anyone here show the entire world that the Bible proves his claim false and collect 5,000 bucks?
Thanks you guys for this commentary. You all were great. I could never have listened to any of conference without you ❤🌹 Wendy assumed people were out to wreck their lives when they are actually just trying to examine things with clear objective thinking. Truth can bare inspection , and it will come out shining brightly like the sun!! When Russell was saying that those leaving were lazy learners and lax disciples, he next said to " choose to believe" What an unfair controlling thing to do. We can believe only if the information is worthy of our belief. They are so controlling. They gaslight and use fear and guilt just like they did when l came up. .The false philosophies are in the LDS church. Wendy , stop doing cult tactics. Let us be free to study and breathe. l choose to follow Jesus Christ( not the fake Jeesus of the King Follet discourse that Russell follows), l suggest you do the same.
I don't mind the invitation to follow the prohets' words...as long the leaders live what they preach - all those secret financial and historical combinations make their pleadings hypocritical
Its interesting how this is being discussed , as so many people have left the church over anti stuff, or left over historical things that we dont really know if its true or not. So whatever we need to be intuned with the holy ghost! To decern truth.
Maybe her talk will load up many shelves, or be the final straw for many. If they only get a chance to hear it. Maybe she will be allowed to repeat this at a BYU devotional or something.
It’s interesting! but it’s about Wendy. I think it’s conflicted how the ppl feeling about it. There’s many reason why so many members leaving. Im one of them.
My hope was that the badness spoke for itself, but I put the exclamation and question marks quote on my facebook, with no commentary, expecting the "😯" emoji reactions and comments of "where on earth did that come from?!" but instead, it got two likes and a comment of "wise words from a wise lady" or something to that effect. I think the brainwashing is too strong for them to even notice the horrible words in this talk.
But, are you guys members??? Did you or have you ever had a testimony??? And what was your testimony based on ??? Im amazed that you mention alot of things and ignore alot of others.
The clips are so painful to listen to, especially knowing how differently I used to feel when hearing this stuff. The focus is so narcissistically focused on Nelson! And there's no focus on Jesus, who is the very person that Nelson thinks we haven't devoted enough attention to (hence, the removal of "Mormons" from identifying members).
Awe thanks for posting this I love President Nelson and Wendy!! The only thing I wish you would have done was put time stamps when Wendy spoke, it would have been easier to speed forward to listen to her. 💗💗💗 Love love love the Prophet, what a blessing that we have a man of God on the Earth today!
@@leem3299 I believe we must think for ourselves and listen to the spirit - obviously one size does not fit all. President Nelson and all the 12 have been touting this message for the past 4 years - Hear Him, and if that doesn't resonate with some people its because they are lazy and would rather rely on being spoon fed. I personally feel you must have a relationship with the Savior - if you have watched the Chosen series it is written and produced by an evangelical who not of the LDS faith, but he has portrayed Jesus in a whole new light. Love the show (I highly recommend it) and the one thing that highlights for me with the Chosen is how the Pharisees miss the mark! The are so dead set on following Jewish law (the Torah) the can't see Jesus standing right in front of them. When watching this panel of people criticize and cut down Wendy Nelson and President Nelson that is the thought that came to my mind. They are so caught up in being critical and think they are the experts - the missed the message. President Nelson and Wendy are human - don't expect them to be perfect, the only PERFECT person to have walked this earth was the Savior. And for a bunch of absolute nobody's to criticize anyone/any person is ripe. I would also add - what have any of these people contributed to the welfare of others?? ZERO! Have they devoted their lives to preaching the good news about the Savior? Nah, they would rather than spend their precious hours on earth bad mouthing people and looking for fault - rather than working on themselves and their own faults (which by the looks of them I'm sure are many! ) I personally LOVE certain aspects of every religion because each holds a puzzle piece that if everyone worked together and brought their knowledge and understanding would make the whole picture of the Savior, ultimately it that not who WE ALL are striving to know and worship!! I love being a member of the LDS church, I would rather err on the side of doing my best to love one another and not waste my time or energy doing videos to cut others down - HOW I ASK would any member on this panel like it if thousands of people made fun of them and called them names and poked fun - YEAH I'm sure none of them would like it. They all look thin skinned but maybe cutting others down somehow gives them validation for the miserable people they truly are. What a waste of time!!
@@eternity6615 I like the chosen. I think they are doing a good job of sticking to the Gospels, which is where I find the most authentic/inspiring Jesus. I'm sure it's tempting to add in doctrine of their own denomination, but I appreciate they don't do that very much. For me as well, it's the most authentic portrayal I've seen. Ok, back to Wendy. I appreciate that your initial comment was all positive. I had to ask a follow-up question for your criticism. I agree we can't expect anyone to be perfect, and that includes Wendy, and the group here criticizing. I for one do have expectations of the average person though. One of those expectations is that they do their best to avoid ad hominem attacks. Unfortunately this video wasn't free of that. I do appreciate Jane doing her best though to keep everyone in check. She read a list of ad hominem at the beginning, which I think put everyone on notice what not to do. Some still did step over the line though - I see that as imperfection. Do I remember a "bat sh*t crazy" comment? I think that was the worst of it in this video - Way over the line. Similarly, I think it was ad hominem when Pres Nielsen called people "lazy". It's a way of skirting around people's concerns by discrediting or belittling the person. But in this video, when they stuck to criticism of the message I thought they made some valid points. I've listened to former members of a few religions, and one of the shared criticisms of their former religion was how the leadership stressed the importance of listening to them and obeying them, and distrusting or even avoiding all other sources. It's always a good idea to maintain some skepticism when anyone tells you to trust them emphatically (!), and distrust everyone else (?). That's a tactic many religions/governments/etc use - and even you are skeptical when leaders of other religions use the same tactic, right? Do you think it's ok when people in other religions criticize their leadership? If so, how would you say is the best manor of them speaking up? Or do you think they should just stay quiet so they don't disturb the members that are enjoying their experience in the religion?
@@leem3299 I must admit I like your point of view. As for President Nelson or Wendy saying not to be lazy I don't see anything wrong with the comment. My parents let me get away with all sorts of stuff growing up, I didn't do well in School - they didn't care. At the time I thought they were really cool, until I struggled in the work place. I was an administrate secretary to a big oil company (I got the job on looks, not so much for brains.) Anyway, long story short, I went to college so I could feel worthy of my position and get a higher pay raise. College was ruff, I had to start at the bottom of many of the general ed courses. It took me an extra 9 months of classes I could have avoided, it was a set back. So where am I going with this - you guessed it, I would have rather had strict parents who made an effort to tell me not to be lazy, to get good grades, etc. I had to pay for college classes I could have otherwise skipped. Ok - so if President Nelson is urging people, and anyone who will listen wouldn't you rather be prepared to meet the Savior rather than upset that someone said 'don't be lazy.' Everyone thinks all is well in zion and as long as you love the Savior, or you are saved you can do anything you want because there is no judgement day. Sadly, there is going to be a judgment day - Christ did not suffer for people to lollygag around with our time. I am guilty so don't think I'm pointing the finger, I know that I need to put forth more effort because when I meet the Savior I know I'm going to feel overwhelmed with guilt that I didn't do more. I think if leadership in ANYONE'S church is out of line (Bishop, Pastor, Priest, etc.) and they are abusing their power then deal with it privately and move on. And I agree with you 100%, there has to be some amount of skepticism when anyone tells you to trust them and no one else, but with that said, I follow the Prophet for because I want too, not because I have to, its always been a choice. And President Nelson has always stressed to Hear Him, and get answers for yourself. (I don't agree with the j .a. b, even though they all had it.) Anyway, I didn't see this behavior with President Nelson or Wendy, they didn't berate, belittle, abuse, throw down the hammer - they simply stated their message and said don't be lazy and their message resonated with me. If I can put forth even the smallest amount more effort then they accomplished what they hoped for. They just want us all prepared to meet the Savior, His return is closer than we think, wouldn't you agree?
@@eternity6615 Your response made my day. I'm a quiet guy, who works from home, so RUclips is a pretty much my social life. "Don't be lazy" can be ok advice I suppose. But I probably should have told you I was referring to the conference talk Pres Nielsen gave a bit ago: "Lazy learners and lax deciples will always struggle to exercise even a partial of faith". The target audience seemed to be members who have concerns/doubts, or those leaving the church. It is in this context where calling them "lazy" not only sidesteps their honest concerns and belittles their character, but is simply untrue in so many cases. But your response went beyond that issue. Your own experience is valid and makes sense - that your parents could have saved you some trouble by pushing you harder than they did. Real Life requires some preparation, and a life of 100 percent ease is unrealistic. So you make a good point. But on the other hand, some people get beaten down by chronic struggle and suffer tremendously. It's about striking a balance I suppose. I heard once that if your day is about 30 percent struggle, and 70 percent comfortable, then that's pretty healthy. I think I agree. What about you? And then there's the fact that some people are more sensitive to stress than others. I hope this example isn't too heavy, but the Abraham sacrificing Isaac story is an example of what I mean. For some kids it doesn't even phase them, but for me I can still remember hearing that story as a child and the sheer terror - my tentative feeling of safety around God and my own father evaporated without resolution. That struggle did me more harm than good. Did that story ever phase you? And in your response you also brought up judgement, which is another concept that did me more harm than good until I focused on what Jesus said judgement is based on : "I was hungry .. as you have done to the least you have done to me". Jesus loving others as himself, teaching us to love others as ourselves, and emphasizing that to the highest degree - even saying that's what judgement is based on. When I contemplate that, the word "judgement" doesn't carry dread like it always did. Instead, I feel guided and inspired by love. I'm the kind of kid who needed Jesus, and just Jesus. A high demand religion was rough on me. I'm one of the people who felt burdens being lifted when I started wondering if some things I heard at church my whole life may not be 100 percent literal. I didn't so much have a faith crisis, but an easing of burdens when I decided it would be ok to read the synoptic gospels and put that first. But I'm totally not against any church. I just want people to have a choice, like I finally had a choice. You said you always felt like you had a choice. That's great, and listening to you helps me see that for some people the church is maybe all good. Personally though, I didn't have a choice. Any information that would have given me a choice was strictly off limits and scary. I had to go through a stress related health crisis before I was able to even question whether my beliefs were healthy for me. Sorry if this stuff is too heavy, but thanks for listening. I could go on but I'll take a break and see if you respond. : )
When did he have time to shovel all the neighborhood driveways all winter long (“feet of snow”)and do trash can duty “every Monday”? He was an apostle on constant assignments and travel duties so they can rarely even see their own families.
For one to be a prophet one has to have a prophecy, atleast ONE prophecy or one cannot be a prophet, wether he be TRUE OR FALSE. And the results of that prophets prophecy determines wether they be true or false. So without a prophecy these are nothing more than men that God has nothing to say to. And no one should fallow these men that God has nothing to say to.
I fully believe in tithing as I have had experiences with the blessings that come from it. I think though that Wendy missed it big when she kept saying prophets always speak the truth. If that is the truth then we need to believe the Adam/God theory that Brigham taught.
Interesting the desire for the church to go woke from some of the panelists. I agree that there is tone deafness and misplaced focus on fallible men. But Sharon Eubank is not what the church needs. She is a woke progressive world government champion. She( and others)is an example of the desire to conform with Babylon that Nelson approves of
We are fighting against the twelve apostles of the Lamb. sincker, snicker. See how brave we are. 1 Nephi 11:36 Thus shall be the destruction of all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, that shall fight against the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
I’ve never known a group of people so eager to relinquish their right to think for themselves. The whole, “I’ve made up my mind and never have to think again” idea is just so repellent to me it blows my mind.
Its true.Hey, everybody! this Mormon is guaranteeing you 5,000 dollar's reward if we can prove that Joseph Smith is not written into the Bible by his date of 1830. wruclips.net/video/0-sxcrBjT14/видео.html
He claims he can mathematically show the exact prophetic math where your Bible reveals Joseph Smith as the solution for the 666 beast.ruclips.net/video/CYcqAL4KTRQ/видео.html Also, He claims his RUclips video part 9 breaks down all the right Bible verses in both Daniel and Revelation with the book of Abraham. ruclips.net/video/qQkeXB4qisg/видео.html. I say we take him upon it and go to the Salt lake tribune and publicly make him pay out the money. Can anyone here show the entire world that the Bible proves his claim false and collect 5,000 bucks?
I know, it is very difficult to break free. Pray for them.😥💔🙏 l got free from a multi generational pioneer stock Mormon family .
Nelson was in my stake. I am now a born again Christian , all glory to God!!
@@cc-mk2hp...
Change doesn’t happen unless a brave and bold person takes that first step. I am with you 1000%. I have your back. Thanks Nemo, your hard work and great attitude are contagious. YOU ARE HELPING SO MANY PEOPLE.
Its true.Hey, everybody! this Mormon is guaranteeing you 5,000 dollar's reward if we can prove that Joseph Smith is not written into the Bible by his date of 1830. wruclips.net/video/0-sxcrBjT14/видео.html
He claims he can mathematically show the exact prophetic math where your Bible reveals Joseph Smith as the solution for the 666 beast.ruclips.net/video/CYcqAL4KTRQ/видео.html Also, He claims his RUclips video part 9 breaks down all the right Bible verses in both Daniel and Revelation with the book of Abraham. ruclips.net/video/qQkeXB4qisg/видео.html. I say we take him upon it and go to the Salt lake tribune and publicly make him pay out the money. Can anyone here show the entire world that the Bible proves his claim false and collect 5,000 bucks?
@@richarddick2955 first of all he’s not paying anything because he is so blindly believing he thinks he is right and will never concede that BOA and BOM aren’t true. He’s a TBM that is a lost cause.
I can't believe the people in the comments on the original video from the other day. People think it's brilliant to not question the Prophet for the next 30 days. What a brilliant idea! For a mind controlling group that is
Bunch of mindless sheep
So agree! Think and pray for yourself. Free agency!
surely after doing this they should do the exact opposite - question everything the prophet says for 30 days
I would love for the leaders to speak on grace , the grace of our Lord which is sufficient ! The church is all about WORKS whereby the Lord says "My grace is sufficient.He who believes on me is mine.
Great. Replace one dogmatic, fanatical christian mindset with another.
What a naive statement "grace"
Yes , the LDS church Third article of Faith we believe we are saved by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel.
This is not grace.
Come to the true Christ of the Holy Bible who does offer real grace unlike the Mormon Jesus who does not.
The notion of perfection is toxic and damaging. Fantastic discussion.
I'll be putting a question mark after everything Wendy Nelson said.
The part where Wendy describes doing all you can yourself before asking for help makes me sad because a single mother like mine could have used so much charitable help from the Church and statements like Wendy's kept her from ever asking.
And even if you ask for help, many bishops refuse to help single moms.
What a great discussion! I'm watching on October 3, 2024, and it's so nice to see Alana. I miss her. 💜
This might be a peculiarly American reference, but the only thing Wendy missed mentioning is the time that Pres. Nelson chopped down a cherry tree, then, when asked by Dallin Oaks if he had done it, said "I cannot tell a lie, I cut it down with my little hatchet."
😂😂😂😂
This discussion was insightful! I can't believe that I used to believe a lot of these statements! Incredible that I didn't use my critical thinking or reasoning skills! Brilliant video! I appreciate you all for the work you people do! ❤️🇬🇧❤️🇺🇸⚔️❤️
Loved the new format. Made it a Great watch/ listen . Thank you
Cheers, gotta keep the rabble under control ;)
@@NEMOTHEMORMON Peter was very well behaved
I wonder if true believing Mormons are beginning to see that their leaders are scared to death. They are almost at a panic stage as they witness the collapse of the Church. Even though the city I am in has lost two wards in less than year, the members don't seem to have a care in the world. At some point this Alice in Wonderland experience is going to end and it is going to be an unmitigated disaster.
@mtddmtdd1.
It might end.
Might.
But it won't be disaster for them. Not at all.
😮
Is anyone else not concerned about Wendy and the fact that she gave this talk in the first place? I have heard Wendy talk a number of times and she is intelligent and educated and her work experience is in family therapy and counselling. She seems to be a good woman who has spent her life trying to help people but here she is giving a talk and giving advice to members on how to deal with their religious life with advice that is based on behaviours that can be seen in cults.
She is telling the members to accept everything the prophet says EXACTLY without question but question every other source outside of the church. I am sure with her education she is aware of what constitutes a cult and she must also be aware that the church adamantly states it is not a cult.
So what is actually is going on here?
Why did the church even want Wendy to give this talk in the first place?
Maybe she polls well with the members so they trot her out hoping even those on the brink will be impressed with her admonitions to just simply OBEY and stop questioning her husband’s authority. (And don’t take a close look at our new clothes.)
I know what you mean because to me Wendy comes across as a really nice person and to me she comes across as someone you would become friends with if you knew her, I think the church sees this as her appeal.
This however is an "us -against them" talk, a talk pre-approved by the church.
Educationally and career wise she and I have a lot in common and yet giving a talk like this is light years away from anything I would ever consider thinking or saying. Because it alienates people,it does not encourage a love and coming together of peoples. I would not want to think this talk contains all her own personal ideas.
Thank you for your comments about Russell Nelson's wife Wendy. Well done. She was manipulating , out of line.
@@niniane721
She is as cunning as rmn is:.
Vipers.
Some early church leaders did not want the poor to be tithed, but now they say that they wouldn't want to deprive the poor of blessings.
God, I hate that primary voice.
When I was a missionary I saw the "missionary" voice all the time by my buddies. I never built up the courage to tell them they were just putting on a show.
Are these men speaking "for" God or "as" God?
Exactly!
Its true.Hey, everybody! this Mormon is guaranteeing you 5,000 dollar's reward if we can prove that Joseph Smith is not written into the Bible by his date of 1830. wruclips.net/video/0-sxcrBjT14/видео.html
He claims he can mathematically show the exact prophetic math where your Bible reveals Joseph Smith as the solution for the 666 beast.ruclips.net/video/CYcqAL4KTRQ/видео.html Also, He claims his RUclips video part 9 breaks down all the right Bible verses in both Daniel and Revelation with the book of Abraham. ruclips.net/video/qQkeXB4qisg/видео.html. I say we take him upon it and go to the Salt lake tribune and publicly make him pay out the money. Can anyone here show the entire world that the Bible proves his claim false and collect 5,000 bucks?
Only if God changes his mind about many crucial things every 6 months or so. Some could interpret this as blasphemy, claiming that God is indecisive, wishy-washy, flaky, and capricious about so many things, like . . . race, polygamy, ordinances for children with LGBTQ parents, Adam-God, blood atonement, the efficacy and value of the U. N., the name of the Church, etc., etc., etc.
Thank you to the girl in the bottem right corner. Great comments. These leaders do not speak truth!
Blasphemy, heresy! Their time is short. Wolves in sheep's clothing. -Fine woolen suits. They lie so well. They do speak smooth and comfortable things, easy things. They know how to appear good. Cursed is the man who trusts in the arm of flesh. Lying is an art form for them. It is scary to listen to them.
Call no man your leader. Jesus is the truth , the life and the way.He is the only door.
This was so good even though I cringed the entire time! Wow! What did I just watch?? Thank you guys! Your commentary was so spot on every time I had a thought, you would mention it. I loved most of all where a prophet will be destroyed if he leads the church astray...and every prophet before him is dead 🤯😂. Just a simple brilliant point
@@paulgregersen3570 Because he put himself there.
Wendy Nelson is suggesting the use of thought stopping techniques also known as “mind control” on the members. This is insane! 😮
Wendy knows the Good Ship Zion has hit an iceberg. She is desperately trying to bail water out of Rusty’s lifeboat, and hoping no one will notice him shuffling the deck chairs ….😵💫
Keep bailing Wendy….🪣
This episode was so good. Commenting for the algorithm. Thanks again.
Appreciated, thanks for watching!
Follow Jesus!❤
of all the stories they could draw on, they go with the emperors new clothes. wow. just wow.
Agreed. My jaw dropped.
Follow everything we say exactly. Also, don't trust any source outside of us. Run away from anything that contradicts this message. We are not a cult.
Praise Xenu!
@@kennethd.9436 lol
@@kennethd.9436 I know it's funny, but just to let you know...Xenu is actually the Scientology version of a Devil. They believe he committed a mass genocide by dropping billions of alien beings into volcanoes on Earth as a way to control population growth on his home planet. The spirits of these murdered aliens then attached to human bodies and are responsible for every single bad thing in human history. No Scientologists would ever praise him.
"prophets speak the truth" reminds me of the Nixon line that "if the president does it, it's legal" - here it's "if the prophet says it, it's true" - regardless of what it is or when it is reversed/expires...
This insistence on the infallibility of leaders is new. I distinctly recall as a child hearing (1940s-50s) from ward and branch pulpits that one difference between M'ism and Catholicism was the LDS did not believe their leaders infallible. There are lots of stories abt this bishop or that apostle or colony leader resisting Brigham Young's pronouncements. They followed him because he was right most of the time and church programs were usually in their interest. (I have to say, as a long-lapsed Mormon, I'm rather proud of Pres. Nelson's recent warnings abt vaccinating & masking in the face of so much nincompoopery in LDS conservative culture. As a former single mom & always primary provider for my household, I realized in the 1980s that, whereas the church seemed to want to keep me dependent, if my family and I were to survive I needed to stand on my own feet morally + financially. Thus we went our separate ways.)
Its true.Hey, everybody! this Mormon is guaranteeing you 5,000 dollar's reward if we can prove that Joseph Smith is not written into the Bible by his date of 1830. wruclips.net/video/0-sxcrBjT14/видео.html
He claims he can mathematically show the exact prophetic math where your Bible reveals Joseph Smith as the solution for the 666 beast.ruclips.net/video/CYcqAL4KTRQ/видео.html Also, He claims his RUclips video part 9 breaks down all the right Bible verses in both Daniel and Revelation with the book of Abraham. ruclips.net/video/qQkeXB4qisg/видео.html. I say we take him upon it and go to the Salt lake tribune and publicly make him pay out the money. Can anyone here show the entire world that the Bible proves his claim false and collect 5,000 bucks?
You guys are brilliant!!!
37:30 It’s so messed up that she is telling us we need to be like the prophet. The scriptures explicitly state we should be like Jesus. We’re Christians, not Nelsonians.
Its true.Hey, everybody! this Mormon is guaranteeing you 5,000 dollar's reward if we can prove that Joseph Smith is not written into the Bible by his date of 1830. wruclips.net/video/0-sxcrBjT14/видео.html
He claims he can mathematically show the exact prophetic math where your Bible reveals Joseph Smith as the solution for the 666 beast.ruclips.net/video/CYcqAL4KTRQ/видео.html Also, He claims his RUclips video part 9 breaks down all the right Bible verses in both Daniel and Revelation with the book of Abraham. ruclips.net/video/qQkeXB4qisg/видео.html. I say we take him upon it and go to the Salt lake tribune and publicly make him pay out the money. Can anyone here show the entire world that the Bible proves his claim false and collect 5,000 bucks?
The Church Of Joseph Smith(s) Of Latter Day Saints.
As one person told me : I learned all I needed in PRIMARY.!!!!!!
Fake signatures? Expound please! I don't know this one. @48:50
I was a temple worker for 6 years and didn't learn more after the first year.
I’m confused. All my long life as a member of the church I was taught there is ONE prophet on the earth to lead the church. Now all this talk about listening to the words of the “prophets”?
To say that "Prophets" won't lead you astray is a dangerous concept. Humanity is full of prophets and self claim chosen people to lead people to commit crimes and even taking their own lives. I have learned to distrust everyone that tells me I should trust them. When you hear the words: Trust me.. that is the moment when you need to become aware and elevate your personal compass..
I dangerous concept indeed!
I thought the same thing...Jesus is who way say we follow, but I'm not sure it is. Her whole talk was on how special her husband was, rather than about our Savior. So weird.
Super weird!
@tawneenielsen4080.
X. 250 B I L L I O N.
Hey Nemo, what are your thoughts all the crazy miracles you hear about from Joseph Smith times and Pioneers, compared to the “miracles” of today. I think it was Bednars talk awhile ago about some miracles he witnessed lol
The problem with miracle stories is that they’re a dime a dozen, and usually lack any sort of credible evidence whatsoever. Even worse, when examined further, they often have mundane explanations and or were greatly exaggerated to begin with. How interesting is it that as technology advances and our ability to record events with greater detail increases, the frequency of miracle claims decreases…that should tell us something.
There are not contemporary statements to agree that a miracle took place.
Miracles still happen! I know someone whose sister’s friend’s mom had a flat tire and the three nephites helped her. True story.
@@DancingQueenie 🤦🏼♂️
@@DancingQueenie Manny Mo and Jack
Great insights Julian. Need to think critically about all information! And greater expectation of leadership from GA's about current issues (from a point of robust secular knowledge)
Awesome video! Thank you!
I’m glad you liked it!
Great and spacious building... liiiiiike a temple? 😁
His wife calling him “President Nelson” is so creepy.
Something happens. Frank Sinatra’s mother referred to him using both names. My sister’s son is famous and she refers to him with first and last names. Like I wouldn’t know who she’s talking about if she says “Mike called.” Weird and creepy.
call him PRESIDENT "PRESDIENT" ""PRESIDENT"" """PRESIDENT"""" "" """PRESIDENT""""" ... ad infinitum!!!!! ....."NELSON" I could never understand why
we Mormons worship the present current day prophet, no matter who he is, and are virtually commanded to emulate the lives of our fallible leaders, while giving unending lip service to Jesus CHrist. We are in effect told to worship TWO masters.
This was absolutely fantastic. What a great, thoughtful group.
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it!
It would be interesting to know at what point was Wendy eyed to become the second wife of Pdt Nelson. She was quite accomplished and she lived in Utah. Does anyone know?
I second this request, does anyone know the story?
@@NEMOTHEMORMON According to Nelson's biography "Insights" which Sheri Dew wrote, Wendy and Sheri wrote a short greeting to Elder Nelson on a piece of paper which they gave to a former sister missionary they ran into in Italy, who promised to give it to Elder Nelson who would be coming to Rome to dedicate the first stake there. When Elder Nelson read the note, Wendy's name leaped off the page and all other words faded. He had a strong impression he should get to know Wendy. His first wife had passed away a few months earlier. Once he was back in Utah, he arranged a meeting with Wendy.
@@anitah2404
Name and phone # on a cocktail napkin in a bar,
couriered by a waitress?
@@anitah2404
MY response to this deleted.
Of course.
Sis. Nelson has written and taught several problematic and dangerous things. Her book "Not Even Once Club" is a great example of a damaging idea (which she echoed here with her comment about following with exactness). She's also taught damaging concepts about sexuality (gay relationships are a perversion). She wrote books about marriage and relationships prior to being married. While I'm sure she isn't some kind of super villain, I can see why she triggers people. I think she is a better speaker than her husband though. RMN seems like an android trying to imitate human emotions and expressions.
Narcissists imitate human emotion. RMN is textbook.
Who besides me thinks that her husband wrote her speech?? I mean how can a woman be trusted to know what she's talking about?
Interesting theory, but given he may not have written his own, I’m not so sure!
Great format guys! You must have had revelation on this
Its true.Hey, everybody! this Mormon is guaranteeing you 5,000 dollar's reward if we can prove that Joseph Smith is not written into the Bible by his date of 1830. wruclips.net/video/0-sxcrBjT14/видео.html
He claims he can mathematically show the exact prophetic math where your Bible reveals Joseph Smith as the solution for the 666 beast.ruclips.net/video/CYcqAL4KTRQ/видео.html Also, He claims his RUclips video part 9 breaks down all the right Bible verses in both Daniel and Revelation with the book of Abraham. ruclips.net/video/qQkeXB4qisg/видео.html. I say we take him upon it and go to the Salt lake tribune and publicly make him pay out the money. Can anyone here show the entire world that the Bible proves his claim false and collect 5,000 bucks?
Have a decision to make? Just do what the prophets say! But wait. I was always taught to pray and get a personal answer directly from god.
Jane, thank you for sharing the gospel with us through your testimony of the Savior and how it can bless your child’s life. It is true and the way I see it too. Keep the faith in the Savior and worship him and it will be good.
The Church propagates a spiritual, emotional, intellectual, mental, economic and cultural colonisation to narrowly define the human experience within their own narrow world view. Anything outside of that is vaguely tolerated on a superficial level, but ultimately is condemned to be the antithesis of godly approved behaviour.
Also, why doesn’t the Church have a more prominent showing of Jesus Christ art at conference and in normal ward worship services. If Christ is the focus, why isn’t the conference centre auditorium redesigned to show their focus in a visual way?
So how do you feel about the Brigham young statue at temple square?
@@leem3299 relevance?
@@truebloodnz That was a bit put there, but I was thinking about the elevated and dominant statue of Brigham Young at the entrance to temple square. Kinda focusing on a powerful man instead of Jesus.
@@leem3299 fair, leader worship, similar to the Joseph Smith and Hyrum Smith statues. All of those were planned well before the Christus statue was installed. Interesting isn’t it?
@@truebloodnz And concerning the temple spires - that Brigham Young told so many poor people God commanded them to build: "... Since the spires represent the Melchizedek Priesthood, the three also represent the three members of the LDS Church First Presidency, which is the highest governing priesthood body of the church." Brigham spoke with the voice of God to direct people to build him a monument for free. Clever.
Wendy is speaking for
MR. WENDY.
She's learned the jargon,
the intonation, and how to wield it.
That first comment about misogynistic comments (lady bottom right) was excellent and needed to be said! I don't mind slicing a person's presentation to ribbons, but only on the basis of content, not based on how attractive/ugly, married/unmarried, egotistical/humble the person may be. It's pure and vile sexism.
So... no clothes on... Holland calling the people leaving the church 'stupid' via labels such as bubble gum chewers... they have no clothes on... the GAs have no clothes... and the members are to tell them how great they look.../are.. no matter what they do or say..
Yes. Shameful Leader worship. 😣
This video reminds me of a book I used to use called “Where does it say that” which gave church history quotes and where you can find it. I think a newer book of just prophet quotes and where and when they said it would make a really interesting book.
Ooooh, that would be great!
Wendy is part of the Brigham Young professors by 1993 and very prominent speaker for the Church by 2000. Nelson's wife dies in Feb. 2005 and he marries Wendy in April of 2006.
Cheers for sharing!
Good question Alana re how the talks are written and checked.
That crazy smile on the boy's face as RMN says "God will take him away"
I am greatly troubled...so, if and when they begin to tell the truth and repudiate their past transgressions, then the church is okay???! Suddenly it is divinely called? Not. The leadership of this church, and many others, have long destroyed lives and continue to do so. It doesn't matter if they believe what they say and not 'necessarily' lying or trying to be deceptive. Many of these teachings are not healthy and safe.
Richard, Yes!!
@timisa58.
Yes! You may have to repeat this MANY TIMES MORE!
Nicely done.
I LOVED THIS WHOLE EPISODE!!💗💗💗
I laughed out loud, literally, when they said the banjo players left long ago!
Its true.Hey, everybody! this Mormon is guaranteeing you 5,000 dollar's reward if we can prove that Joseph Smith is not written into the Bible by his date of 1830. wruclips.net/video/0-sxcrBjT14/видео.html
He claims he can mathematically show the exact prophetic math where your Bible reveals Joseph Smith as the solution for the 666 beast.ruclips.net/video/CYcqAL4KTRQ/видео.html Also, He claims his RUclips video part 9 breaks down all the right Bible verses in both Daniel and Revelation with the book of Abraham. ruclips.net/video/qQkeXB4qisg/видео.html. I say we take him upon it and go to the Salt lake tribune and publicly make him pay out the money. Can anyone here show the entire world that the Bible proves his claim false and collect 5,000 bucks?
Its true.Hey, everybody! this Mormon is guaranteeing you 5,000 dollar's reward if we can prove that Joseph Smith is not written into the Bible by his date of 1830. wruclips.net/video/0-sxcrBjT14/видео.html
He claims he can mathematically show the exact prophetic math where your Bible reveals Joseph Smith as the solution for the 666 beast.ruclips.net/video/CYcqAL4KTRQ/видео.html Also, He claims his RUclips video part 9 breaks down all the right Bible verses in both Daniel and Revelation with the book of Abraham. ruclips.net/video/qQkeXB4qisg/видео.html. I say we take him upon it and go to the Salt lake tribune and publicly make him pay out the money. Can anyone here show the entire world that the Bible proves his claim false and collect 5,000 bucks?
If using the term Banjo Players is a hate, put down, slap in the face in the face to a certain culture, they are on the road to bigoted hateful darkness of hell. :.
She gives me the creaps, just like Old Rusty Nelson the Profit.
Thank you Jane for doing your best to keep ad hominem at bay. It's bad enough just looking at misuses of power, there's no need to call names or otherwise ad hominem.
I noticed how Wendy is conflating policy and procedure change with commands from God.
Am I the only person who feels like they’re in an episode of “The Twilight Zone” or “1984”? What we need is a Pinnochio style way of telling whether the leaders are speaking truth or not. It would be interesting to see how long each leader’s nose was!
She seems like a sweet lady. But the things she says are all kinds of cringy. Wendy portrays the "culture" of the church that turns so many off. Talks like this turn people away from active membership.
I prefer at this time to put a ? before what others say and WTF? after what the prophets says at this point and time in my life.
About speakers writing their own talks... Check out Mormon Stories Episode 1450. The mother talks a bit about how she used to write the GC talks for some speakers, as well as other important speaking events like dedicatory prayers and they'd read it word-for-word. CRAZY!!!!!!!
21:25 It is so disgusting that Wendy teaches that I cannot understand the things that her husband can. I’m not saying he can’t be wiser or can’t prophesy, but she is saying I can’t be taught. He has special knowledge that I don’t have access but will he not teach. It is all “do not test, do not compare with scripture, just obey”. They are not interested in teaching, persuasion (D&C 121), being accountable to scriptures or the gospel, or allowing the Spirit to work within the body of Christ. Paul the apostle taught that if he teaches anything contrary to the gospel to cast him out! (Gal. 1:7-9) The church is accountable to the gospel, the gospel is not accountable to The Church™️.
She's paraphrasing Isaiah:"My thoughts are not your thoughts etc". She believes he is god's mouthpiece doesn't she?
@@debbieshrubb1222 Yes, she does. The President of the Church can make administrative changes, policy changes, new logos, and then they happen! 😆 Fulfilled revelation!
I feel like there is an issue we are “not obeying” and they are angry about it but they won’t say what it is! His teachings have been:
Covenant Path
Women have the priesthood now
Be grateful
Don’t be racist
Hear God for yourself
Get vaccinated
They won’t admit they are disturbingly defensive or explain why. That is why I bring up the need to teach. Maybe I’m just asking for honesty instead of this smiling, vague scolding.
@@debbieshrubb1222 It is highly problematic to get up the pulpit and warn the people of all the sinful and silly ideas that are out there and then not give examples or any idea of what those are. God’s thoughts are not our thoughts. They want to put their “thoughts” on the level of God’s thoughts and keep us in the dark. That scripture is not God’s go-ahead for prophets to be cryptic, superior, or silent.
They are wrong this is wrong . no no no!
HEAVENLY FATHER & HIS WIFE, HEAVENLY MOTHER, are aware of the ignorance & rebellious of some, at THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST.
I know this was posted months ago, but I'm hoping you read new comments that come up, Nemo. First: thank you. This channel has helped keep me grounded in my faith transition.
One thing that I noticed in this "address" is slight tones of ableism coming from Wendy Nelson. Her comment on when RMN sees someone in a wheelchair and tells her they need to talk to them specifically after the meeting is done. Then, close to the end, this was said (and I'm parapharsing): there are people who struggle with chronic illness and disease. But we all have the struggle of constant spiritual progress and gospel study.
As someone with a chronic and usually invisible yet painful chronic illness, these kinds of comments are disingenuous at best. Emotionally hurtful at worst. I don't want to stand out as a "prophet's" charity case for someone to point to me specifically to say, "She's young and is using a cane. She must be struggling. Let's go talk to her." By God, I don't need that bragged about and publicly stated in a continent wide meeting. What does a mobility device have anything to do with a Prophet coming to talk with that person, except for virtue signaling?
I also don't need or want my illness compared to a spiritual struggle that *everyone* must go through. My chronic illness is mine, and I would not wish my pain and struggles on someone else, just so that they could get "closer to God" or whatever.
It just seems like she really does not have a grasp of what someone with a chronic illness actually goes through. She may be a nice person. But, I meet "nice people" every week. Very rarely do I want a further conversation with them, because they are nice to me because they see my disability and not my person.
Thank you for sharing this Savannah!
Hypocrisy is one thing, but then the irony is excruciatingly flabbergasting. I can’t fake serious anymore on this story on the Emperor’s lack of couture. They can’t get in front of their own dilemma. Maybe we see what they can’t see? It has passed funny and sped on to sad as they marginalize and confuse. Alana said it best…Just who are they trying to convince here? The lack of critical thinking is alarming. They are tone impaired. They are just chewing the same old cud and celebrating idiocracy. It must be immobilizing. I haven’t thrown the baby out with the bath water, but they are truly riding my last gay nerve as if this were a monster truck rally. Holy sheep sh*t, sorry, …. LLAMA FRITTERS!. Thanks y’all. Go Team Avengers! 🤓she said irrevocably 🤣💜💜💜💚💚💚💜💜💜
The stronger that good and right rears its influence the faster evil will rise to meet it...
Does the fact that Wendy never had children help explain why she talks to to the rest of us like we're 5 years old?
Its the conference voice they all do... grrrr
It took me years to realize that the entire LDS organization is a Primary and that, as the rank and file, those without lineage or connections, we were all expected to behave like children, and were of course treated as such. The patronizing continues to this day.
According to her Wikipedia profile she was a family therapist, trained nurse and an academic.
It's a subtle put down to a woman to remind people if they have had children or not. It's all about content.
@@annwood6812 It's an observation and question. Your life experience, including whether you have had children, will 100% inform and influence the content of your talks. For example, Wendy wrote a detestable children's book called The Not Even Once Club which was filled dangerous teachings on toxic perfectionism. Maybe she goes a different direction if she's actually raised a kid or two.
Wendy’s talk it’s just prophet worship. Seems like a breach of the first commandment not to have other gods before God. .
Hit the nail on the head!! Can't stand much more. 😑
@kathrynclass2915.
A-a-a-a-a-a M-e-e-e-e-e Nnn
A “cult” classic 😂😂😂😂😂
Its true.Hey, everybody! this Mormon is guaranteeing you 5,000 dollar's reward if we can prove that Joseph Smith is not written into the Bible by his date of 1830. wruclips.net/video/0-sxcrBjT14/видео.html
He claims he can mathematically show the exact prophetic math where your Bible reveals Joseph Smith as the solution for the 666 beast.ruclips.net/video/CYcqAL4KTRQ/видео.html Also, He claims his RUclips video part 9 breaks down all the right Bible verses in both Daniel and Revelation with the book of Abraham. ruclips.net/video/qQkeXB4qisg/видео.html. I say we take him upon it and go to the Salt lake tribune and publicly make him pay out the money. Can anyone here show the entire world that the Bible proves his claim false and collect 5,000 bucks?
Thanks you guys for this commentary. You all were great. I could never have listened to any of conference without you ❤🌹 Wendy assumed people were out to wreck their lives when they are actually just trying to examine things with clear objective thinking.
Truth can bare inspection , and it will come out shining brightly like the sun!! When Russell was saying that those leaving were lazy learners and lax disciples, he next said to " choose to believe" What an unfair controlling thing to do. We can believe only if the information is worthy of our belief. They are so controlling. They gaslight and use fear and guilt just like they did when l came up.
.The false philosophies are in the LDS church. Wendy , stop doing cult tactics. Let us be free to study and breathe. l choose to follow Jesus Christ( not the fake Jeesus of the King Follet discourse that Russell follows), l suggest you do the same.
I don't mind the invitation to follow the prohets' words...as long the leaders live what they preach - all those secret financial and historical combinations make their pleadings hypocritical
I was always put off by all this "our beloved Prophet" stuff , but I think during the RMN presidency it escalated to new levels...
Its interesting how this is being discussed , as so many people have left the church over anti stuff, or left over historical things that we dont really know if its true or not. So whatever we need to be intuned with the holy ghost! To decern truth.
If Prophets speak the truth, then they need not to "lie for the Lord" as they do!
Cheering for you from the sister colonies!
Wendy talks like she is speaking to 5 year olds
Some, left THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS, due to ignorance & rebelliousness.
My litmus test is what the Holy Spirit tells me. I listen to Him.... Just like pres Nelson had told us for 3,-4 yrs before all this Covid crap.
Maybe her talk will load up many shelves, or be the final straw for many. If they only get a chance to hear it. Maybe she will be allowed to repeat this at a BYU devotional or something.
It’s interesting! but it’s about Wendy. I think it’s conflicted how the ppl feeling about it. There’s many reason why so many members leaving. Im one of them.
My hope was that the badness spoke for itself, but I put the exclamation and question marks quote on my facebook, with no commentary, expecting the "😯" emoji reactions and comments of "where on earth did that come from?!" but instead, it got two likes and a comment of "wise words from a wise lady" or something to that effect. I think the brainwashing is too strong for them to even notice the horrible words in this talk.
But, are you guys members??? Did you or have you ever had a testimony??? And what was your testimony based on ??? Im amazed that you mention alot of things and ignore alot of others.
don't care what she says, she's just promoting her husband - she doesn't have a calling.
I really love the lady in the bottom right. She was spot on, with so many issues. Plus she's wearing a Def Leppard shirt
did he see covid coming?
@markjackson6992.
He definitely KNEW it; he was cooperative with the plan. Bet he was invested with production. He IS a doctor,
The clips are so painful to listen to, especially knowing how differently I used to feel when hearing this stuff. The focus is so narcissistically focused on Nelson! And there's no focus on Jesus, who is the very person that Nelson thinks we haven't devoted enough attention to (hence, the removal of "Mormons" from identifying members).
How about aligning what we hear to the words of Christ…..
Awe thanks for posting this I love President Nelson and Wendy!! The only thing I wish you would have done was put time stamps when Wendy spoke, it would have been easier to speed forward to listen to her. 💗💗💗 Love love love the Prophet, what a blessing that we have a man of God on the Earth today!
Sounds like you're experiencing the good side of the religion. What do you appreciate most?
@@leem3299 I believe we must think for ourselves and listen to the spirit - obviously one size does not fit all. President Nelson and all the 12 have been touting this message for the past 4 years - Hear Him, and if that doesn't resonate with some people its because they are lazy and would rather rely on being spoon fed. I personally feel you must have a relationship with the Savior - if you have watched the Chosen series it is written and produced by an evangelical who not of the LDS faith, but he has portrayed Jesus in a whole new light. Love the show (I highly recommend it) and the one thing that highlights for me with the Chosen is how the Pharisees miss the mark! The are so dead set on following Jewish law (the Torah) the can't see Jesus standing right in front of them. When watching this panel of people criticize and cut down Wendy Nelson and President Nelson that is the thought that came to my mind. They are so caught up in being critical and think they are the experts - the missed the message. President Nelson and Wendy are human - don't expect them to be perfect, the only PERFECT person to have walked this earth was the Savior. And for a bunch of absolute nobody's to criticize anyone/any person is ripe. I would also add - what have any of these people contributed to the welfare of others?? ZERO! Have they devoted their lives to preaching the good news about the Savior? Nah, they would rather than spend their precious hours on earth bad mouthing people and looking for fault - rather than working on themselves and their own faults (which by the looks of them I'm sure are many! ) I personally LOVE certain aspects of every religion because each holds a puzzle piece that if everyone worked together and brought their knowledge and understanding would make the whole picture of the Savior, ultimately it that not who WE ALL are striving to know and worship!! I love being a member of the LDS church, I would rather err on the side of doing my best to love one another and not waste my time or energy doing videos to cut others down - HOW I ASK would any member on this panel like it if thousands of people made fun of them and called them names and poked fun - YEAH I'm sure none of them would like it. They all look thin skinned but maybe cutting others down somehow gives them validation for the miserable people they truly are. What a waste of time!!
@@eternity6615 I like the chosen. I think they are doing a good job of sticking to the Gospels, which is where I find the most authentic/inspiring Jesus. I'm sure it's tempting to add in doctrine of their own denomination, but I appreciate they don't do that very much. For me as well, it's the most authentic portrayal I've seen. Ok, back to Wendy. I appreciate that your initial comment was all positive. I had to ask a follow-up question for your criticism. I agree we can't expect anyone to be perfect, and that includes Wendy, and the group here criticizing. I for one do have expectations of the average person though. One of those expectations is that they do their best to avoid ad hominem attacks. Unfortunately this video wasn't free of that. I do appreciate Jane doing her best though to keep everyone in check. She read a list of ad hominem at the beginning, which I think put everyone on notice what not to do. Some still did step over the line though - I see that as imperfection. Do I remember a "bat sh*t crazy" comment? I think that was the worst of it in this video - Way over the line. Similarly, I think it was ad hominem when Pres Nielsen called people "lazy". It's a way of skirting around people's concerns by discrediting or belittling the person. But in this video, when they stuck to criticism of the message I thought they made some valid points. I've listened to former members of a few religions, and one of the shared criticisms of their former religion was how the leadership stressed the importance of listening to them and obeying them, and distrusting or even avoiding all other sources. It's always a good idea to maintain some skepticism when anyone tells you to trust them emphatically (!), and distrust everyone else (?). That's a tactic many religions/governments/etc use - and even you are skeptical when leaders of other religions use the same tactic, right? Do you think it's ok when people in other religions criticize their leadership? If so, how would you say is the best manor of them speaking up? Or do you think they should just stay quiet so they don't disturb the members that are enjoying their experience in the religion?
@@leem3299 I must admit I like your point of view. As for President Nelson or Wendy saying not to be lazy I don't see anything wrong with the comment. My parents let me get away with all sorts of stuff growing up, I didn't do well in School - they didn't care. At the time I thought they were really cool, until I struggled in the work place. I was an administrate secretary to a big oil company (I got the job on looks, not so much for brains.) Anyway, long story short, I went to college so I could feel worthy of my position and get a higher pay raise. College was ruff, I had to start at the bottom of many of the general ed courses. It took me an extra 9 months of classes I could have avoided, it was a set back. So where am I going with this - you guessed it, I would have rather had strict parents who made an effort to tell me not to be lazy, to get good grades, etc. I had to pay for college classes I could have otherwise skipped. Ok - so if President Nelson is urging people, and anyone who will listen wouldn't you rather be prepared to meet the Savior rather than upset that someone said 'don't be lazy.' Everyone thinks all is well in zion and as long as you love the Savior, or you are saved you can do anything you want because there is no judgement day. Sadly, there is going to be a judgment day - Christ did not suffer for people to lollygag around with our time. I am guilty so don't think I'm pointing the finger, I know that I need to put forth more effort because when I meet the Savior I know I'm going to feel overwhelmed with guilt that I didn't do more. I think if leadership in ANYONE'S church is out of line (Bishop, Pastor, Priest, etc.) and they are abusing their power then deal with it privately and move on. And I agree with you 100%, there has to be some amount of skepticism when anyone tells you to trust them and no one else, but with that said, I follow the Prophet for because I want too, not because I have to, its always been a choice. And President Nelson has always stressed to Hear Him, and get answers for yourself. (I don't agree with the j .a. b, even though they all had it.) Anyway, I didn't see this behavior with President Nelson or Wendy, they didn't berate, belittle, abuse, throw down the hammer - they simply stated their message and said don't be lazy and their message resonated with me. If I can put forth even the smallest amount more effort then they accomplished what they hoped for. They just want us all prepared to meet the Savior, His return is closer than we think, wouldn't you agree?
@@eternity6615 Your response made my day. I'm a quiet guy, who works from home, so RUclips is a pretty much my social life. "Don't be lazy" can be ok advice I suppose. But I probably should have told you I was referring to the conference talk Pres Nielsen gave a bit ago: "Lazy learners and lax deciples will always struggle to exercise even a partial of faith". The target audience seemed to be members who have concerns/doubts, or those leaving the church. It is in this context where calling them "lazy" not only sidesteps their honest concerns and belittles their character, but is simply untrue in so many cases. But your response went beyond that issue. Your own experience is valid and makes sense - that your parents could have saved you some trouble by pushing you harder than they did. Real Life requires some preparation, and a life of 100 percent ease is unrealistic. So you make a good point. But on the other hand, some people get beaten down by chronic struggle and suffer tremendously. It's about striking a balance I suppose. I heard once that if your day is about 30 percent struggle, and 70 percent comfortable, then that's pretty healthy. I think I agree. What about you? And then there's the fact that some people are more sensitive to stress than others. I hope this example isn't too heavy, but the Abraham sacrificing Isaac story is an example of what I mean. For some kids it doesn't even phase them, but for me I can still remember hearing that story as a child and the sheer terror - my tentative feeling of safety around God and my own father evaporated without resolution. That struggle did me more harm than good. Did that story ever phase you? And in your response you also brought up judgement, which is another concept that did me more harm than good until I focused on what Jesus said judgement is based on : "I was hungry .. as you have done to the least you have done to me". Jesus loving others as himself, teaching us to love others as ourselves, and emphasizing that to the highest degree - even saying that's what judgement is based on. When I contemplate that, the word "judgement" doesn't carry dread like it always did. Instead, I feel guided and inspired by love. I'm the kind of kid who needed Jesus, and just Jesus. A high demand religion was rough on me. I'm one of the people who felt burdens being lifted when I started wondering if some things I heard at church my whole life may not be 100 percent literal. I didn't so much have a faith crisis, but an easing of burdens when I decided it would be ok to read the synoptic gospels and put that first. But I'm totally not against any church. I just want people to have a choice, like I finally had a choice. You said you always felt like you had a choice. That's great, and listening to you helps me see that for some people the church is maybe all good. Personally though, I didn't have a choice. Any information that would have given me a choice was strictly off limits and scary. I had to go through a stress related health crisis before I was able to even question whether my beliefs were healthy for me. Sorry if this stuff is too heavy, but thanks for listening. I could go on but I'll take a break and see if you respond. : )
Julian at about 41:50. 👋 🎤 (Mic drop.)
Then "What's her name" (sorry) at about 56:00. 🤌🤌
👏 👏 👏 Yes!
When did he have time to shovel all the neighborhood driveways all winter long (“feet of snow”)and do trash can duty “every Monday”? He was an apostle on constant assignments and travel duties so they can rarely even see their own families.
For one to be a prophet one has to have a prophecy, atleast ONE prophecy or one cannot be a prophet, wether he be TRUE OR FALSE. And the results of that prophets prophecy determines wether they be true or false. So without a prophecy these are nothing more than men that God has nothing to say to.
And no one should fallow these men that God has nothing to say to.
NELSON LIES ALL THE TIME!!!!
I fully believe in tithing as I have had experiences with the blessings that come from it. I think though that Wendy missed it big when she kept saying prophets always speak the truth. If that is the truth then we need to believe the Adam/God theory that Brigham taught.
I don't know how it is in the UK, but in Utah %58 of the women in Utah are on antidepressants.
Interesting the desire for the church to go woke from some of the panelists.
I agree that there is tone deafness and misplaced focus on fallible men. But
Sharon Eubank is not what the church needs. She is a woke progressive world government champion. She( and others)is an example of the desire to conform with Babylon that Nelson approves of
@cdub7190.
rmn COULD HAVE COME STRAIGHT from Babylon.
He's just trying to drag SOUL-BOOTY behind him as he returns.
We are fighting against the twelve apostles of the Lamb. sincker, snicker. See how brave we are. 1 Nephi 11:36 Thus shall be the destruction of all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, that shall fight against the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Good thing Nephi never existed as a real person.
Amazing
Thanks for your great work Nemo
is the wizzard of oz real..... hi hi