The Erasure of Gays in the AMISH & Mennonite Settlements
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- Опубликовано: 8 июн 2024
- Joined for a second time by Mary (former Amish) and Hannah (former Holdeman Mennonite), we discuss the ways in which being gay/bi in their settlements harshly affected them and how queer plain people are generally erased from society. Bringing awareness and visibility to the LGBTQ community, they share their experiences openly and shed light on the disproportionate harm they faced.
Watch Mary's original video: • AMISH Woman "Sinned" b...
Watch Hannah's original interview: • Ab*sive Father Joins H...
www.lgbtamish.com/
The Trevor Project: www.thetrevorproject.org/
Hannah's book: a.co/d/7T4rodZ
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Chapter Markers
00:00:00 Intro
00:03:15 Hannah explains some basic rules about her Holdeman Mennonite settlement
00:04:43 Mary explains the basic rules in her Amish settlement
00:08:32 Modesty and hyper-s*xulization of women
00:15:53 Marriage without courtship in Mennonites
00:16:47 Courtship in Mary's Amish settlements
00:19:47 TW: CSA-“S*x education" booklet for parents to teach kids
00:25:04 When Hannah recognized she had feelings for girls
00:28:32 The consequences of Mary coming out to her parents at 5 yrs old
00:32:29 TW: LGBTQ su*cide- The Trevor Project
00:38:13 How strict gender roles affected Mary's mentality
00:41:58 Some Amish are run out of their settlement when it's found out they are gay
00:45:03 TW: R*pe- Do the Amish have conversion therapy?
00:47:42 Mary's advice for anyone leaving the Amish trying to find themselves
00:49:41 Mary's activism
00:54:53 Linda, Listen
Theme Song Produced and Composed by Christian Guevara
*Disclaimer: Thanks for joining us at Cults to Consciousness. This storytelling podcast is meant to be for entertainment purposes only and does not substitute for medical advice. We may discuss triggering topics and we ask that you make your personal mental health a priority. Lastly, the opinions of our guests do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the host.*
I think the reason the older women said to look to how a man treats animals because we find that abusers tend to treat animals poorly just as they treat humans under their control.
I've heard from others who have left similar communities that if a man is willing to raise a hand to an animal he is probably doing the same to his family, I think it's a factor in the sense if a man is willing to hurt something innocent that goes towards all innocents around him
If the person who has all the power over you and is basically your master you better get someone who has empathy
Even some murderers state they mutilate animals before they became murders
Shelise how is baby doing? Sending love to you.
@@jeannerountree952 if you would like her to see this, you might want to make it a separate comment. She gets a lot of comments on here and reading entire threads can be hard!!
I've seen Mary interviewed before and what always strikes me is the rage behind her words. That must have taken so long to feel. I look back to my own history with religion and how I was taught to repress anger, and I can't even imagine how much worse it must have been for her. I hope that everyone, especially women, who grew up in a high control, repressive religion one day can let themselves feel all of the rage they deserve to feel.
My upbringing was fundamental evangelicalism, which is less strict about some details of the female experience, but no less shadowed and oppressive in a spiritual sense. I still struggle to feel rage because it was so forbidden for women to have strong emotions. And I was told over and over that I had a good childhood. Sometimes the fury hits me by surprise.
@@not_you_i_dont_even_know_you Same!
When you train for veterinary medicine we are taught that if an animal is being abused, the likelihood for a spouse or child to be abused is almost a given.
😢😭😭
I did a six-week training through the University of Pittsburgh to become a CPS (CYS) caseworker and we were trained to look for/report animal abuse as it's highly correlated with domestic violence. Honestly, I can't even think about some of what I learned. There should be a nationwide database of animal abusers
Yeah. We know that abusers and serial killers start with small animals first. I've been saying it since I was little. Like still a child. Studies finally started showing what I intuitively knew was true.
@@thedogshouterer I've been saying that too! We need a nationwide database for animal abusers and have them flagged on "Do Not Adopt" to for shelters and the like.
I had a neighbor who was arrested for having sex with his neighbors mini donkeys! I was sickened! The guy found a few used condoms in the corral/barn area. He set up trail cams and caught him! Because it was said to be a sexually deviant crime with no victim, he was sentenced to undetermined years in a mental hospital for sexual deviant. Many of us fought for him to be on the sex offender list, but because his victims weren’t human he wasn’t eligible. I can’t imagine he would not offend a child if he was given access.
It's really difficult hearing some of the best humans on your channel describing their past and saying, "I felt less than human." Honey....you're a next level human, and you guys deserve the best life has to offer. All 3 of you are.
Right. I can’t even imagine having these sorts of backgrounds and rising above so powerfully. Really puts my life into perspective.
@Jessicad9304 It really does. Life is difficult for almost everyone in all the normal ways. But these ladies had to heroically overcome the most overwhelming obstacles. Amazing.
I have3 adult children the eldest is hetero, the Middle is a gay son and the last is a bisexual daughter. I love all three equally deeply. All mychildren are the way they always have been. They didn't "become" straight or gay from puberty . They are born this way. Sometimes I feel the world need to start accepting people for what they are. I am grateful that you are brave and strong enough to come forward and tell us about your experiences. Much love to all of you. Hugs from Katharina
Thank you for understanding and loving your children unconditionally. I wish you and your family well 🖤 Keep preaching the love girlie
I worked in a school for almost decade. I saw this in our students. They are whonthey are from kindergarten. I dont know why more people dont say this out loud
I often tear up when I read posts such as yours.
I'm a senior citizen now, but 60 years ago, I knew three wonderful men who committed suicide in my very small and Christian village - - because they couldn't bear to live with the shame they assumed they'd have to experience.
I'd give anything to have them back, and to let them know that it gets better, and that there ARE places where they can live and be true to themselves.
I spent most of my adult life in San Francisco, and often thought of them - wishing they could have experienced an accepting environment like that.
Thanks for being such a wonderful loving mom!
Wishing you and all your family all the best!
@@ShellBAtoms You are honoring these individuals much more than you realize by thinking of them as you have. Let them live on in your spirit
i bet it is unfathomable for you to think about parents who have no love for their child anymore when they find out about their sexual orientation!! my brother and i are both hetero But my mom (let her beautiful soul rest in peace) was a catholic nun until she was 25yo. as a child i remember my mom always saying to me whoever you love when you grow up, it will be a beautiful thing. she was so amazing and its hard for me to understand parents who are not like that. my son is 15 and i know he is hetero, but i also know that if he was not, how could i love him a mm less? its an unfathomable thought!!
I can feel Mary's anger in my guts. Speak your truth, you are amazing!
Both your guests were awesome. One quote from Mary resonated greatly with me: when you romanticise or demonise people, you dehumanise them. I feel like it's so, so deep. Romanticising is as dangerous as demonising: famous people, politicians, ministers, teachers, they're all romanticised by a lot of people, and we struggle to hold them accountable.
One particular moment from this really struck me. When the Amish guest mentions her first crush; her face lights up with the most beautiful smile. I hope her time is now filled with many of those smiles. ❤
"Poor girls literally sleeping and still being blamed"
"I was sleeping".
Ouf.
It was difficult at times to listen to Mary's testimony, if only because of how much this obviously is taking a toll on her emotionally/spiritually. You truly can tell how strongly she feels just by the way her voice trembles at certain points. I applaud her for having the strength to speak up.
I hope Mary stops apologising for speaking her mind, for talking about serious topics, for talking “too much”. I really look up to her and thinks she’s amazing.
Hannah is also an amazing person.
It's a work in progress! I'm really working on that. ❤ Thank you for holding me accountable.
YES! The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence!
They are WONDERFUL!
Based in San Francisco -
performing community service in myriad ways - while bucking stifling religious dogmatic traditions!
So glad to hear you actually connected with them!
That sounds perfect!
@@themisfitamish
Mary’s intensity really speaks to me. Thank you to both of these wonderful humans for sharing their experiences.
Yes she does have an intensity, and I really appreciated it. I love seeing the individual ways people choose to express themselves. Sad that it’s under these circumstances though.
As someone who is part of the LGBT+ community and left the Mennonites, I am so glad to hear this subject talked about.
Congratulations on your liberation!
That takes so much strength and courage!
May that strength and courage continue to serve you well in your life!
Wishing you all the best in all you do!
Thank you so much for sharing. ❤ So happy you got out.
I too was Mennonite and gay. I have looked for years for anyone who came from the same background as me, and Mary is one of the first ever. I am very grateful for her voice.
@@dyinteriors There is more of us than you would think!
U cannot be a gay christan/ I agree the honest thing to do is it leave the religion/ I which you the best/ you put you lifestyle above the clear teaching of the bible/ that is you choice which has consequences/ please remember the true you is what god made you to be / but thinking he made you to be gay is false
I'm a queer addict (in recovery now) and I've never been attracted to a child. Ever. The truth is that they don't want to hear that the monsters are in their own homes, in their churches, in their workplaces...but it's easier to point the finger at the black sheep than the rest of the herd.
I feel for Mary. I can't imagine how hard it was living in that world, keeping SUCH a lid on one of the brightest, most joyful parts of yourself. She deserved to have a lady whose hair shone in the sun, whose loving hands she knew the gentle touch of, whose smile made her heart flutter....those experiences -- crushes, flirtations, those first relationships -- are some of the most beautiful, educational experiences we can have and denying people those experiences can really harm them. Especially when you're taught that you're fundamentally broken and wrong. Awful.
Not fundamentally broken just lost in Sin. Christ is King 👑
@@Georgina26132 please don’t bring that nonsense onto this channel. It’s not the place for that. These people are reclaiming themselves and finding their identity as an LGBT person outside the church. They don’t believe it’s a sin. Preach somewhere else, not in a place of recovery from religious abuse. Honestly really poor taste but not surprising from a Christian.
@Georgina26132 The Flying Spaghetti Monster is your god whether you like it or not!
As a gay male and growing up in a fundamental church, i know all to when the alienation. I have so much gratitude for these two amazing women and this podcast.🕉
It's ironic how uber-modesty always ends up in hyper-sexuality. Almost as if there's some middle ground, like just wearing normal cloths... Oh wait, that's what we all do in the "worldly" world.
At the Michigan Womyns Music Festival, where no men were allowed, women wore exactly the amount and type of clothes they wanted, and many went topless, and some naked. No shame, and definitely no fear.
Extreme modesty and purity culture often includes indoctrination from very early ages. That indoctrination hyper focuses of sexuality, often exposing children early to concepts that aren't age appropriate and can be traumatizing. Constant monitoring, hyperfocus on sex, extreme discomfort with your own body and sexual repression often contributes to sexual obsessions and paraphilias. Children and teens often act out sexually in deviant ways when not properly educated on consent and informed that there are appropriate outlets for sexuality and curiosity. It's tagic that this occurs not just in Amish communities, but all over the religious spectrum and even is taught in many secular families.
Mary is like a great teacher who uses questions to make you think and go deeper. Love it!
Mary, I could listen to her so much longer. Her bluntness and passion join to make an amazing story teller.
I just love Mary and Hanna. The LGBT community is blessed to have them as advocates. Such strong women
I am glad there are people like shelias out there to help and allow others to share their stories. I also am glad and happy that Hannah and Mary are willing to share their stories . I want Hannah to know that knowing when you have reached your limit and stepping out is not a bad thing and that knowing your personal limits and doing what you think is best for you is always better than pushing on and ruining any mental health progress you have made.
My trauma is not religious or cult-related, but it's there and actually it's something I've been doing a lot of work on the last few months. Which is to say, this episode really really spoke to me. Thank you, Mary, for giving such great words to what it is to suffer, and also to heal. That poem at the end broke me - I don't think I've ever cried so much at a C2C episode! And thank you to Shelise for always being such a tactful, unobtrusive interviewer. The space you hold in these videos has such a sense of safety.
I'm starting to wonder if all these groups are really sex cults. If almost every decision you have to make is somehow based around sex (like Amish dress standards), how do you not think about sex ALL THE F-ING TIME. Every social interaction is essentially foreplay in this context.
Holdeman mennonite church coverings have to be tied under the chin & then the tie ends tucked inside the covering along the jawline cause if the ties are left out they point down toward our chests and that will draw the eyes of men & boys down and 'temp them'.
It's wild how even tiny things like that revolve around sex
@@hannahprosser1004 See, they are going out of their way to bring sex into things that don't need to involve it.
Yep. I think they are fixated on controlling sex, because it’s such a fundamental part of human existence and behavior. Also I suspect the originators of the cults are obsessed with it too.
It seems it's every religion where women and children must do what men say and men can do as they please. The rules are all made for the men. It's disgusting.
@@Jessicad9304like Joseph Smith
The profound level of trauma these women have gone through is just astounding, I'm so glad they escaped. I hope they always get the support that they need to heal, because that's alot to heal from.
They’re both so sweet and strong and informative, I wish them so much healing and joy
Thank you so much ❤
Thank you Hannah & Mary for sharing your experience! I'm from a very lowkey religious background and also a queer woman. We're here and we're queer! ❤
We Americans have been really judgemental about the Islamic Hijab, Niqab, Burqa. We relate this to the Taliban and unacceptable. Yet here we are seeing the "American Taliban" making the same demands and rules and having been practicing this for several hundred years here on our lands! We keep covering our eyes, refusing to see our own truth.
HERE in "Cults to Consciousness," these truths are told!
Well done👏💖
I do think there's a difference between adults who freely chose to dress modestly, whether that's for religion like hijabi Muslims or because its how they're the most comfortable and people who are forced to usually for religious reasons though. But yes watching Americans screech that all Muslim women are oppressed, and plenty absolutely are, but then turn around and tell a 4 year old to cover her shoulders for men's sakes is weird. To be clear I'm not religious in any way
Most Muslim women are freer than most Amish women!
Unfortunately I see ignorant Americans/westerners say these Muslim girls and women choose to wear a head covering because they want to, so to not judge or discuss it negatively. Of course they are not realising all of the teaching, pressure, judgement, shame etc that goes into that "choice" or what the potential outcomes would be to not confirm. I would not be surprised if people thought similarly about Amish/Mennonite girls and women being forced to cover too.
It’s so wonderful, to see Mary being so eloquent & strong, with sharing her perspective. What an incredible person, to find the strength to stand up for her experience. It’s so so important, not just for her community, but for all people facing unfair persecution & demonization from their families & communities.
She’s such a gift, I’m so grateful you’ve had her back. She’s obviously gaining in her ability, to speak & present herself in an educated & courageous way.
It’s so so valuable, what she’s bringing to the table. Not just for the Amish, but for all people. Thank you. 🙏
*Mary and Hannah*
You BOTH are doing beautiful work. Seeing you two return together like this really gave me hope for the silenced LGBTQ+ community spread throughout various religions. PLEASE do not stop doing what you do, the embrace you two have on your lives and identities is absolutely inspiring. (Also, I was JUST talking about Mary's mad crochet skills with my boyfriend yesterday, I just began teaching him ~2 weeks ago.)
And a *MASSIVE* shoutout to C2C Shelise and Jonathan as always. You guys are doing insane work BTS for this channel and in the frontlines, all while caring for a newborn and uplifting so many voices.
Much love and support as always! 🖤
Thank you so much ❤
Thank you so much. To live without hope is a terrible place. You are worthy. ❤
This is just a great discussion! I am going to watch their individual videos shortly.
Thank you, Hannah and Mary, for having the courage to speak out! This was so good. And I love the way all 3 of you bounced off of each other. Maybe more videos of the 3 of you in the future?! 😂
Again KUDOS to you 3 for your bravery and work to help others. ❤
Really happy they mentioned the Trevor Project is a beautiful work that they do
I grew up in a cult too, but I have a female cousin you should talk to! Her sect of the cult was so strict that they weren't allowed to interact much with us (despite being the same religion). It's a cult you've never touched on called oneness pentecostalism/apostolic and is very common in Missouri/Arkansas area, but exsists throughout the world.
At one point I wasn't allowed to wear chapstick-- because it was "too sexual". My cousins had it so much worse! Obvs I couldn't cut my hair, wear makeup, jewelry or pants. My cousin’s story is much wilder!
In the most extreme versions we were the "snake handlers", but normal churches are "holy rollers". Inagine people rolling on the floor bawling and "speaking in another language", screaming, casting out demons, et. cet. This kind of thing was normal, but my cousin’s story is more interesting than mine and you should talk to her.
Please don't downplay your story, yours is very important to tell, too. ❤
You deserved so much better than to have grown up like that, but so glad you were able to get out! ❤
This is really important. Oneness Pentecostal is very high control from what I know. It's an honor to hear some of your experiences. It matters.
You should email Shelise! She has a link in the description of the video.
I was raised UPCI, and I was wondering when it would come up on the channel.. I'd definitely be interested to hear others' stories similar to mine
@@michaelar4867 I keep waiting for it too, I just think right now that people are afraid to call it out. It's almost scary to be the first person to talk about it, because of the potential backlash. I, about halfway through my childhood went from unaffiliated Oneness Apostolic to UPCI. I'm sure you know that the unaffiliated churches can be very very culty! But even mainstream, now that I'm an adult and out of it, is worrisome.
Ironically, both Hannah and Mary are righteous in their anger. Not in the biblical sense but just raw courage in their testimony about their lives. As a "member" of the CSA community my heart sings to hear their unvarnished truth. I'm 74 yo and it's taken most of my life to be able to understand the lack of safety and secure attachment which results from this childhood trauma.
❤️❤️❤️
To anyone on this page, you are valued and loved. No one has the right the keep you down.
What a truly beautiful comment ❤❤❤
Mary, thank you so much for introducing me and other viewers to crochet as a way to calm the nerves. I began learning after your interview and I'm crocheting along with you this time!
Thank you for continuing to give voices to those who need it.
Holy shit, these two are incredible. Fantastic synergy. & Really loved how Mary articulated everything and their quick-wittedness was delightful.
Just so you know, "sexual abuse and molestation" coverage is usually available and often offered to churches and many other nonprofits. I was an insurance agent for 20 years, and I have sold this coverage. It's not because they "expect" it to happen, but it is a risk to consider. If the agent is ethical, they'll often counsel client on having a safety plan in place to prevent such things. Also, there are prevention questions in the insurance company applications. Just thought you should know. Much 💕 love.
Thanks for adding more context!
This is interesting.
Sorry this is so of the church is accused of this they’re protected? It protects them financially? Like there will be no financial responsibility from the church if they’re caught doing this?
@@Junitunes Sort of, but it's a bit more complicated than that. Let me clarify. Insurance, by nature, reluctantly expects some losses - that the insured would be *legally liable to pay* - and this coverage has what's known as a "sublimit" which is typically a much lower amount (say, 100K - 300K) than say, a typical $1M General Liability policy. So, really? It's really for legal defence of the church/non-profit. If the church was found *negligent*, arguably, any settlement would be MUCH higher. So, for the sake of argument, let's say our friends Mary and Holly filed a claim - the most the insured church would have from the policy would be that sublimit (minus any deductible) and chances are it would only be enough for legal defense costs. Now, in reality? The insurance company could make the decision to go ahead and try to "settle" that claim and simply pay out the sublimit. It's happened. I'm not an attorney, and I'm no longer an agent, but I'd also venture to guess that a court could find gross negligence and the church would be responsible for ALL of the claim/suit. In short: insurance is designed for the good people who really do try and avoid bad things from happening. It's designed to protect from losses, but I think not in the way that your comment implies? It's NOT designed to be a get out of jail free card or a protection of bad/foreseeable acts. I hope that's clearer than mud?
Shelise, please forgive me for the wall of text. It's a complicated topic.
never apologise for sharing your words Mary there is so much power in your words
I first saw Mary on SWU, and I was struck by her direct and articulate manner.
I absolutely adore her! Mary please don't stop, you are amazing!
14:10 in the area where I live there are large Amish/Mennonite communities and some unfortunately have a reputation for overbreeding and inbreeding dogs to sell (not just rumors, it is well documented) and so I almost started crying at this statement about "watch how they treat animals".
Yup it’s becoming more known that the Amish often run puppy mills
And how they mistreat their draft/work horses
My mom always told her girls that if a man was mean to any animal , they weren't good husbands . I've 7 sisters 6 brothers
I didn't grow up in a cult or really religious for that matter, but as a bi woman just living in the Bible Belt life hasn't always been easy. So, I can only imagine what it must have been like to grow up with those kind of views being constantly forced on you like that. Just hearing their stories both infuriated me and broke my heart at the same time. They deserved so much better than that. I'm glad that they were able to break away and finally be their true selves. I wish them the best of luck with whatever they do moving forward.
I love you Mary! You're amazing!!! So great what you're doing. You're passion is contagious.
I thank both guests for sharing their experiences. Powerful stories. I have been an ally to the LGBTQ+ for decades. Love is love. That poem was fantastic!
The way I was raised was nowhere near as abusive as what mary and hannah suffered, but I was raised in a very homophobic catholic home and i'm a lesbian. The most intense homophobia towards queer women that I experienced was by straight women. There's something really healing about seeing the empathy and kindness with which you speak about mary and hannah's queer experience, despite being heterosexual (as far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong). thank you for being so supportive
❤❤❤
I have a real problem with homophobia in religions. I find it really sad and I don't agree with it. But I understand how people can think like that. It's generational and passed down. It doesn't help it's in the Bible. People don't want to believe if the bible is wrong about sexuality maybe it's wrong about other things.
If God is loving and created us, why would he want some people to live a loveless life condemned to loneliness and believing they are an abomination?
Your production quality and consistency is so impressive! I seriously love this podcast so much. You set the standard so high
Wow, thank you!🥰🙏
I love the humorous moments and lovely relationship between these two incredible women!
Thank you to both of them for sharing their stories! Unfortunatly many people who didn't grow up in high control groups can relate to homophobia but this is so high level. My best friend is trans and was raised trad catholic and some of the things about growing up in a group so fundamentally against your very existence you've talked about reminds me of him and his experience. Thanks you again for being visible for other gay/bi Amish/Mennonite people and others 🖤
I absolutely LOVE Mary and her strong support of the LGBTQ . When I was young the church my mother dragged us to tried to shove that hate down our throats but even at a young age, I already knew my older brother was 'different' but I loved him so much there was no way I was going to believe he was evil and hate him. He was joyful and kind and protective of others, and he never hated anyone so why would I hate him?
Thank you, you 3 strong and courageous women, for engaging with this difficult and painful content to raise awareness of the mistreatment of women and children in Amish & Mennonite communities.
May you be happy; may you be well; may you be free from suffering; may you be at peace.
BIG LOVE to you all.
I don’t think I can do justice to anything these strong, intelligent, articulate, compassionate women have gone through, except to say that I’m glad they’re in a place of safety and where they can be who they are, and that I admire their strength in facing their trauma to help other people out of similar situations.
I love how Mary’s taken and changed and made her own the fashion she was raised in. That galaxy-print dress is beautiful.
Mary, you exist, you are a person, and you are loved!
I absolutely adore Mary. I would watch and listen to anything they're on. They convey so so much strength. Mary, I wish you the absolute best in life and I'll always remember your stories. 🩷Thank you for sharing your experiences. 💜💛
I so agree! I watched her interview on SWU, and was SO impressed with her strength - and rebellion!
I absolutely LOVE the fabric print of her dress ! Cheeky - open - spacious - beyond earth - expansive - rebellious - and gloriously beautiful - just like her.
This one is hard to watch. Mary is clearly experiencing a lot of pain, you can hear it in her voice when she speaks and it’s heartbreaking.
Mary- I have seen so many of your interviews now, and you resonate so strongly with me. I always feel less alone and more strong when I hear you speak. I just wanted to thank you for that.
Mary was honestly one of my favorite interviews that this channel has done. I haven't even watched the whole thing yet but I'm SO excited for this one
Please keep talking!! If even one child can be saved from a lifetime of being unable to live his true self then it is well worth it. Much respect to all of you for having this conversation.
Loved the episode. Watching Mary knit while she talked had such a calming effect on me
This talk really blew me away. Thank you all for having this discussion and being so open.
Posted 6 minutes ago. Looks like I know what I'm watching while I fold this massive pile of laundry. 💯
Thank you for being open about your experiences. I'm a nonbinary queer person who works specifically with underserved communities within my state. My state is extremely conservative, to the point that a child named Andrew cannot be called Andy without the parents' or guardians' consent.
I wear a little pin with my pronouns (they/them/their) on it. A kid pointed it out today and was so happy to see that 1 inch button. And that made my entire day, knowing that if one queer kid felt safe...that's why I'm doing this.
If you're in a conservative area, know that you aren't alone. You can get out of there and live your life soon. I hope you find safety and peace soon ❤
Just think of all the ones who see that pin and say nothing yet still feel safe ❤❤❤ I'm so sure you've touched more lives than you could ever know.
I would listen to both these ladies for hours. Sending such love and support to these amazing LGBTQ+ brethren 🌈💗💖 the world is better when it's in color ❤️ 🥰 🌈 keep shining your light and helping more people find themselves! We are here and our experiences are valid 💗
Well said!
I recently photographed a Quinceañera and the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence were there!! I love love love them. And this episode is wonderful, Shelise!!!
Great episode! Both guests were/are great! Love Mary!! She's so strong and brave!
What beautiful souls tearing the veil of secrecy, letting the light shine in and allowing the rainbow to be visible! 🌈🌈🌈🤩🤩🤩🌷🌷🌷
Thank you for listening ❤❤❤
Thank you for bringing these two young ladies back I loved hearing their stories and I'm so glad they're back for more❤❤❤❤❤❤ I just want to give him more hugs
I love watching any of Mary’s interviews. I have seen her on so many platforms and I learn something from her every time!
Mary, you are amazing! And this has the most thoughtful, respectful host. So moving!
GREAT to see Mary again and YES, Mary the Sisters are absolutely amazing
I love learning from my guests! 😁
Thank you both Hannah and Mary. It was good to learn so much from you both.
Omg I just started this episode and Hannah is just the sweetest, cutest, most darling person ever
😂Thanks to you, my coffee is now splattered across the floor 🤣🤣🤣
@@hannahprosser1004 Oh noooo :c I didn't mean to ruin your floors :x
My coffee is all over my desk as well, i'm so embarrassed noww
@maycherryblossoms 😂 noooo nothing is ruined, this was just the comment I needed to see today to lighten things up. 😂💖
@@hannahprosser1004 💕💕💕
aww i'm glad!!
This interaction is everything lol ❤️❤️❤️
Thanks Mary for your Linda listen. I really needed that: to remember to see that humans are multi-faceted and capable of both good and bad.
Love these ladies!! So strong and admirable. Thank you for sharing your story ❤❤❤❤
I saw Mary on S.W.U. first. Watching her crochet is relaxing. I love seeing Mary smile. ❤
Shelves congratulations to you both.❤ Beautiful baby and all that hair!
Shelise!!! You are so amazing to create so much content before you had your baby. Thank you so much! Your hard work is noted!🙏🏾❤️
Thank you so much!! I edited this one with baby strapped to my chest lol
What an epic episode! I've found that folks who have only seen liberal coastal cities think the whole US is a safe place for gay people. In reality, your experience as a queer person in the US can vary from affirming and great to oppressive and mortally dangerous, depending on what community you're born in. I related to Hannah's confusion growing up - I'm bi/pan too and it took for-EVER to figure that out. I really liked all Mary's comments about community and accountability. And her advice at the end was everything I wish someone had told me when I was a fresh ex-Mormon. Queer people are born everywhere because gender and sexual variance are natural features of humanity; we have to be reminded of this truth because all the oppression and repression obscure it from us. Love seeing all the queer Amish & Mennonite representation here!
I would love to sit and crochet with Mary! The things you could learn from her! I’m so very happy to see her laugh and smile! Sending tons of respect and love from the Pacific Northwest 🌲❤️🌲
Omg this is heartbreaking...
Im sorry u went through all these horrors❤
Thank u for sharing ur experience.
No one deserves this
Thanks for sharing. I'm sorry you went through that, I can hear the pain and also caring and dedication in your voices.
It's important to keep talking about these systems. The systems themselves are the issue, people being raised in abusive systems.
Many people are honestly trying to do the best they know how, but that system was the only thing they'd been taught and they don't realize the unintentional harm.
Others might be outright abusers, and can be anywhere. Some because of the systems twisting them, some because of abuses, etc.
Still others could be somewhere in between.
And others have gotten out but are still affected by it years later, even if logically they know the cause and that they don't have to be affected, yet it's still got the internal effects anyway (frustrating as hell).
Sharing helps educate, for those willing to listen, or at the very least plants a question that might be looked at more closely later. It helps comfort. It can hopefully help counteract these systems enough so that future generations won't be put through the same abuses.
Mary, i love all your words--each of them has meaning, and you put them together wire skilfully. Hannah, i wosh we could have heard more of your words, though between technical problems and life continuing to happen it's fine that you had to leave. Surely we'll hear more from you another time, because i know you both have tons more to say. Thanks to all three of you, and best wishes
This sort of thing just goes to show no one "becomes" queer, even people who have no idea its an option or are told its a sin still are because its an inherent part of who we are. Its good to see more people speaking up about it and living their best lives
Yes, THAT part is so very important!!! For years I truly thought something must've been terribly wrong with me cause I didn't understand why I felt the way I did and even why I couldn't stop or change it.
@@hannahprosser1004Nothing like you experienced, but where I grew up you were told people block voted for a party that was founded by a violent homophobe. I still knew I liked both men and women
So nice to see people having these conversations!
Thank you for sharing your stories. You both show how amazing and brave you are to leave the community you were born into. ❤
Thank you ladies for sharing your experiences. Best wishes in the future.♥️
This was such an awesome duo interview ❤ two strong and insightful women ❤
As a future guest I would love to you to have the channel Amanda and Shaye to talk about their faith and gender transition and healing experience ❤
dropping a comment for the algorithm while i watch, LOVING the LGBTQ+ representation 🫶🖤 thank you for uplifting our community 😸
Thank you, beautiful souls, for sharing your stories. Your courage and strength to live your truth despite being born into such an oppressive, patriarchal religion is so encouraging!! Beautiful, beautiful message!!! ❤
Oh, Mary. You feel pretty familiar to me, thank you for speaking here. It’s like listening to a sword while it’s still being forged. You’re beautiful, I love you, and I’ll look up your other chapters and channels when I am up to it. Good luck and thanks.
I´ve seen Marys amazing interview with Soft White Underbelly... she's a truely inspiring person!
Omg. I would love to see an interview with a Sister of Perpetual Indulgence about what exactly they do as an organization and cause
WE have been here since the Dawn of Time!
WE pre-date ALL religious cults!
WE are in EVERY family!
OUR contributions to Humanity are incalculable!
WE are NOT going ANYWHERE!
❤
🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️
😊❤️🙌🙏❤️😊
That’s right!! Take up space!! Exist loud and proud!
Y'all are so right and you know the LGBTQ spaces I exist in have encouraged me to exist and be loud and proud🖤🤎❤️🧡💛💚💙💜
Ps.. this is Mary ❤️
Amazing video gals ❤ thank you very much for sharing your story, and with such witt and humor too! 🏳️🌈
I grew up literally in the midst of a Mennonite community. I went to elementary school with several kids and even worked with a couple of single women in a local grocery store. I will never look at them the same way, these interviews are difficult but necessary. The world needs to know about the abuse happening in these communities!
❤
Wonderful interviews, thank you
A beautiful and truthful conversation. So emotional.
As a relative of Amish and a human being(!), Mary is a beautiful blessing. Remember when they discuss women who don't strictly abide by their husband as "animals"...and remember these communities believe animals don't have souls & therefore don't feel pain....
Awesome! Thanks for sharing, I hope there's a 2nd part maybe on Pride month?
Also a historic note: little boys wore dresses in the 18th century through regular society in the US and Europe too. I even remember learning about that in my American Girl books (the Felicity series!) as a kid!
YAY! As a SOPI Novice, I'm so excited to hear us mentioned. We are not actually affiliated with the Catholic church, but many of us are former people of faith (including myself, a former AG/Foursquare pentecostal theology grad, and my mentor, a former youth pastor and current Person of faith). We follow some of the methods of Catholic orders in our structure and practices as they were greatly inspiring to our founders in the 1970s, but we are fundamentally unaffiliated with any religion. Hope that helps!
Omg I just googled SOPI and it’s amazing!! I’ve never heard of this concept. What an amazing way to push back 😂🙌
10:24 THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS!!! Pardon me for being a bit crude, but I've always felt the insistence of dresses in these oppressive communities was an "ease of access" thing 🤢
100% agree 😢😡
Both guests are totally awsome!🩷