Thank you so much for this opportunity, Shelise! It's a difficult topic but you helped me talk about it. I'm looking forward to our future collaborations
Absolutely! Thank you for being so open and honest. You were very easy to talk to! If anyone has any questions for Aladdin drop them there. We are going live on Wednesday!
After you did videos about Apostate Prophet i understood you are a liar. So i stopped to watch your video. I don't believe you are an apostate. You keep preaching Islam. You can say you try to be secular Islamist.
I read the Q'uran 10x. I know the 3 ways u all plan to rule over the West. You are a liar. We Americans do not buy your BS nor do we fear is. Call us what u will, take your phobias and isms and shove it. We do not care what u think of us.
One of the saddest things about this particular Islamic view of male and female is that children are denied the opportunity to develop some wonderful lifelong friendships and the understanding that successful marriages are based upon treating your spouse as you would treat your best friend.
First of all this has nothing to do with Islam but this is very cultural thing. Tradition and culture are not religion! I am sorry to say but Saudi Arabia does not represent true practices of Islam.
Yeah, can’t agree with this. Not Muslim or religious but co-ed dynamics, especially amongst young people, can be super-dicey. Maybe more people should work as a counselor in junior highs, high schools, and college to see the stats and hear the stories of how messy these “learning experiences” can be and how these “friendships” can have life long negative impacts due to some of the common situations that occur in these co-ed “friendships.” Lots of people don’t know some of the things young people are commonly experiencing (particularly girls) by having boys and men so easily have access to their space.
@@purpleflows5680 as a secondary school teacher (high school) in a co ed school I could not agree with you more. Relationships at this stage for this generation seems to have more negative than positive impact.
I was raised Muslim and wasn’t allowed to go to a movie in high school with a group of girlfriends because one girl had a brother who was also coming. Or else my father had to come. This purity culture is intolerably suffocating.
Which actually as a result increases homosexuality and transgenderism. There are documentaries about how the girls dress as boys to be able to have a life and the boys dress as girls to entertain men at parties where women aren't allowed.
U mean overprotecting you so that these families can protect their own reputation? They sugarcoat it and make you believe they are looking out for u. But they really are worried about their own reputation.@@syndyjahoor5449
💙💙💙💙 I married a Muslim. When I left him he made me feel dirty for having sex with him. There is so much guilt & shame and oppression in Islam. How dare.a women want/desire sex or affection. This is not the religion of peace or love. It is the ideology of hate & oppression. I have a male Pakistin friend who was forced to marry his cousin by his mother & aunt. This thinking is insane & 500 years behind the times. Men are victimized in islam too. Forced to marry somebody they don't love. Thanks for sharing this male perspective. 💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙
they fear the female sexuality, bc. she is more powerful than those of the men. Thats why they oppress every move of liberation relating to women rights.
I also left Islam 3 years ago, now a proud Jesus Christ follower, Islam is a cult , a made up religion, we were brainwashed as kids to kill Jews and Christian’s and that was the way to make it to Jenna …. My whole family left Islam …
I watched a video on Sharia law in Indonesia and they claimed it was only in one area only. When I told them they're crazy they told me if I was a visitor in their country it is bad form being rude to a native people who are humble followers. Humble my ass. An Intifada begins that was created by Palestinians to have another reason to try and kill Jews. But it didn't stop there. It went all over the world. Every place that had a majority of moslems and in the tumult hundreds of thousands of Christians were killed in Indonesia. Nobody was punished for those evil crimes. It was obvious that by the fact that all News companies ignored the huge killings going on. Though it was before they could use the fake term Islamophobia. I know the whole Christian villagers being slaughtered wouldn't have said anything other than it's what happens with somebody who's the majority and they will do whatever they want.
Having worked in Saudi Arabia for many many years this answers questions that we always had but couldn’t dare ask any Saudi person. This man is brave talking about this , I applaud him
Thank you for having a man who was raised in purity culture! I know how purity culture gave me shame, and I have definitely talked to a lot of women that’s true for, but I’ve never heard it from a man’s perspective.
I tend to forget that purity culture affects men, too. It's a good reminder. Side question, so you think 'purity culture' is at least part of why men are so obsessed with 'body counts'? Is that where that bs idea comes from?
@@amandakorbe3773 I have no clue of there is any correlation between purity cultures and this very new term for 'how many people you have slept with' being referred to as 'body counts'. Honestly, the first time I had ever heard that term I honestly thought I was hearing a story of a serial killer, not a gym addict.. That dehumanizes romantic partners to a very frightening degree. I would imagine people who grow up in purity cultures would have a very sheltered and overly-romanticized ideal of love-sexuality-relationships when they get to that age.
@@amandakorbe3773 Don't necessarily need religious or cultural input for that. It's just about personal values if you wish to abstain from non-committal relations.
I was born as a Muslim girl in Germany. I have to say that I am half Arabic. My father is from Algeria and my mother is German. But everything this young man said about Islam and the rules and the Islamic society rules are true. When we had male visitors at home me n my mom greeted them but then we stayed outside of the living room. We came only inside when we had to serve something. We even ate alone when there was a male visitor. I never wore a hijab but "simple" islamic society rules were in our home too. And when we went to Algeria to visit our family ... I was always harassed by young single men. Later I married an Algerian man and he didn't allow me to go outside alone in Algeria because of this harassment. Yes I was even harassed while I held the hand of my husband. A man drove next to us in his car and tried to talk to me. Glad I didn't understand Arabic but u all can understand the reaction of my husband then. Btw my husband is really open. So when he has a male visitor I can stay with them eat with them and even talk to the male visitor. Because he sees his friends as friends of family. The only men he talk alone to in our house is when there r men we both don't know. Technicians who r Arabic and Muslim too for example. There he wants me to stay in a room. But Islamic society is very complicated I need to say. I have been punished for talking to boys when I was young. I mean really young ... 7 years for example. The result of this punishment was that I got afraid of boys. Because my parents never told me that I was not allowed to talk to boys because of prevention of sex ... No they only told me that boys are dangerous. So I always thought that boys r aggressive and will beat me up when I talk too long or too much with them.
I am so sorry sister. I am from Pakistan and have a different experience which is very toxic and abusive. I wish I can write a long note on it. Now, I am trying to flee from my country and Germany will be the country I will be coming in. Are you still in Germany?
i am syrian american and have experienced similar things. its weird because these rules claim to protect you from evil men, so what can you do? I grew up thinking all men are naturally evil and deviant. until I realized that if you socially condition men to think that misogyny is okay and acceptable then it they will become it. keeping the women away, hidden, vieled, reinforces and enables the behaviors. these men are never really taught to see women as people, just merely females to marry, just sidekicks.
He couldn’t even give his classmate a note saying he wanted to be her friend?! That made me so sad! 😢 I also wonder if his mom knew that the girl would probably get in trouble with her dad to get that note. So it wasn’t just his mom teaching him the strict rules of that religion/culture, but maybe also trying to protect that girl from her father’s wrath. Wouldn’t be surprised if the girl would’ve been accused of being a temptress or something. “You must’ve been acting a certain way, otherwise why would a boy in your class want to be your friend?” I feel so sad for the both of them-young Aladdin and the girl he wanted to befriend.
His mum definitely knew. Depending on how indoctrinated his mum was, she might have even believed she was protecting this girl from her son (given the culturally common belief in the temptation of the devil and a generally acknowledged weakness on the part of men to resist it).
Ex Mormon from a Muslim majority country here! You are so so so brave Aladdin AND Shelise (because I know people refrain from content like this fearing they would be labeled islamophobic)
@@TravelinJenB I didn grow up in it I converted when I was 16. TBH it didnt feel any different than being a devout Muslim, all my family and friends were non religious I was treated as the crazy one who believes in made up stories but my parents were sorta okay with it like better than her getting pregnant and drinking at 16 type of thing...
That also meant I didnt know a lot of the Mormon Culture untıl I met a bunch of Utahns when I was living in Europe....thats when I realized the religion was much much much stricter than I thought. Like even in Europe it was practised in a stricter way than it was in Turkey.
I was raised a muslim and had really strict parents. I however grew up in a secular country like America and hated all the restrictions imposed on me. I had other muslim friends but they didnt have such restrictions so I was always ending up comparing myself to them. My parents barely allow me out and usually it takes one of my friends to beg my mom before she allows me anywhere. I was not allow to go out with my male cousin even though he is family. Didn't get to even go to a school camp despite it being on school grounds and also I studied in a religious school. I didn't get to experience so many things and miss out a lot of things. Realized later on that it was because we were in a cult. Had an experience of a stranger (man) taking pictures of me and my female cousin and when I told my mother, she blamed us, saying we must have giggled around him like us giggling caused him to be a pervert. My father thankfully didn't say a word but confronted that man immediately. Another experience was my mother calling me a prostitute for talking to a guy on the phone even though I only saw him as a big brother and even told her that. So much more happened before I left Islam and my parents house. But I never looked back.
The more I hear about purity culture, the more I realize it is way more hypersexual than the secular world. So glad I was not raised with those beliefs. I did grow up religious, but it was a very liberal denomination of Christianity.
What really puzzles me is how dehumanizing purity culture, especially it's more extreme examples, is to both women AND men. From a progressive standpoint it's kind of obvious when it comes to women - they are viewed not as actual complex human being but as walking stumbling blocks instead. But I also have a lot of sympathy for boys who grow up believing themselves to be inherently aggressive, violent and unable to control themselves sex-crazed beasts. I can only imagine how damaging that must me - for such a patriarchal world you would certainly expect them to view men in a better light. Who I don't have any sympathy for are the people who perpetuate the idea of men and women being ~ so different ~ or even ~ opposites ~ and because of whom even in more progressive societies people of different genders view one another as alien beings instead of just variants of the same thing. This kind of thinking is perfectly illustrated in today's podcast, thank you Shelise and her guest!
With guys it’s easy to spot men who grew up internalizing these beliefs without realizing it. They are terrified of gay men. They believe all men are equally dangerous and repressed so if given a chance, they are certain the gay man will attack them. The reflection, that they will deny until death, is that they believe this because they believe they would do the same to a woman or girl if given a chance. It’s also why so many from purity culture belief system protect male predators over victims even when the victim is a child. They honestly believe the predator isn’t at fault because all men are just like this. It’s why so many Christian judges give convicted predators very light sentences.
You like a youtuber whose channel is just based on hating a religion? Or in your way “Saying the “””truth””” it’s embarrassing live your life without having to complain about this
So thankful to know you are free!! You are so not alone in that!! Jesus sees you and cares about you! I can assure you there’s so much freedom and healing from purity culture found in Him.
how are people even supposed to form genuine relationships and possibly get married with all these dumb rules? holy cow it's severely limiting to everybody, having to walk on eggshells constantly
growing up in a muslim family i always questioned this too. as a disabled person it’s already hard enough for me. i don’t understand how people can just marry someone after meeting a few times WITH a guardian, mind you. i would need some alone time to truly open up 🤷
Makes me wonder if these rules prevent them from forming genuine connections with women creating a culture of repression and cruelty? Especially considering the morality police that imprisoned and killed women Just for showing their hair.
I thought it was interesting what he said about it being difficult to question Muslim beliefs or culture in the west due to the fear of being labelled islamaphobic. There definitely needs to be a space, in Liberal societies, to allow questioning things. We can end up going full circle and repressing people x
There’s a great interview with Yasmine Mohammed on this channel and she said that’s by design. Because they can’t punish those in the west that speak against Islam like they do in Muslim countries, they took language from the left and came up with the term Islamophobia to label anyone that criticizes the religion.
This!! Not only are we allowed to question it, we are allowed to take issue with whatever parts we want. Just as people do with the Bible, or with any other religion or religious text. In a free society, people don’t have the right not to be offended.
There is a lovely Saudi movie from 2012, Wadjda. It shows how even the middle and upper class women are virtual house-slaves, and the contrast with the men's lives.
also this movie Osama (Dari: اُسامه, romanized: Osamah) is a 2003 drama film made in Afghanistan by Siddiq Barmak. The film follows a preteen girl living in Afghanistan under the Taliban regime who disguises herself as a boy, Osama, to support her family. Sad ending.
The more I've studied the history of Mormonism and Islam, the more parallels I've found between Joseph Smith and Muhammad. I realized I wasn't crazy when I found a Wikipedia article on this very topic, so other people had drawn the same conclusions as me. I think it's really cool to see you guys bond over shared experiences
When everyone is going in the same direction, it's scary and difficult for the first few people to turn around and go the other way. Keep talking no matter what they call you, the people that need to hear your message are listening even if it doesn't seem like they are.
Thank you for sharing your experience as a man in purity culture. I was best friends with a Saudi man in college. He struggled a lot with purity culture and patriarchy. He put himself at risk for me in a courageous way- I am forever thankful
Thank you Apostate Aladin for having the courage to speak out! This subject needs to be brought to the light. My best friend is half Saudi Arabian. Thankfully, she grew up in the US and knew not to take her father up on his offer of a "visit" when she was 16. Why do all these religions try to subjugate women?
Religion is a tool to keep people under control. Get them to believe shit that's obviously not true and you will get them to do anything. Subjugation of women developed at the same time as religion in Antiquity
@elizabethtovar3603 Very much so. Her mother had educated all 3 on the culture when they were very young. They all are proud of their heritage, (especially the delicious food!) But all are glad they stayed in the US.
With all due respect for your opinions on the issue...Islam does not subjugate women! It never has....if any women has felt subjugated it is most likely because of the cultural traditions of her family which have nothing to do with Islam. Islam gave women the right to speak out against policies of the rulers over 1400 years ago. The right to be taken care of financially by her father, then, her husband, the right to earn a living if she wishes to...and the money earned belongs to her only. ..the right to inherit from her parents and the inheritance remains hers, not to become the wealth of her husband if she marries. The right to keep her father's name. ...the right to make decisions where her children are concerned. These were things women of the West had to literally fight for over the years.
@syndyjahoor5449 Your opinion and veiws are valid. That doesn't change the fact that 100s of thousands of women are forced into any number of awful situations, all in the name of Allah. My Bestie would not be a financially independent and capable woman who travels the world without a care if she had gone to Saudi Arabia.
@@Threemore650 Central Asia probably(minus afghanistan). Nobody really remembers those exist. It is very different from Middle Eastern Islam because it was more under infulence of Bhuddism, Zoroastrianism,all that silk road stuff. And because of nomad life women and children weren't just a perk and played an important role so had a lot of rights. Hence no traditions of thinking of a woman as a 'thing', no face coverege or clothes restrictions for anyone(keeping traditional clothes, you probably do not know but when Islam came for other cultures in Middle East their traditional clothes got replaced with universal Islacmic things). A lot like Turkey but even more secular. Hoever it is changing with Arab countries having more infuence.
What a yoke!it is Day and night between them,How blind you must be,to say Yeshua and child abuser are the same!Shame on you! Mormons are Not Christians, they are Antichristens!! So are islam and all other Religions!Yeshua is Not a Religion!
You are right; ultra Orthodox Judaism treats it's women just as bad as extreme Islam & some forms of very strict Christianity. There is nothing wrong with having a religion with good moral values; in fact it is good, but carried to the extreme it can be very destructive, which does not bring one to honor and love our Creator which we should.
Excellent insight into Saudi Arabian culture and how they twist/apply Islam to justify it. Also an excellent example of how the patriarchy is damaging to men
I don’t think they are necessarily twisting it. It comes from the same core of all abrahamic faiths. The reason fundamentalists-sects are so harmful, is because the fundamentals of these beliefs are harmful. Moderate theists just ignore as much of the texts as needed to be as moral and progressive as they are.
I also grew up in Saudi Arabia. I am not Muslim or Arabic so I grew up in a way more lax environment, however I was still heavily impacted by purity culture amongst other things. I’ll always remember minding my business with my parents, I was 11, when a one of the religious policemen coming up to my dad and screaming that my wearing a simple long sleeve shirt with jeans was disgusting and an outrage. I’ll always remember the 60 year old Bedouin man that tried to buy me at 9 years old. I remember the victim blaming we went through, even when wearing the abaya. The fluctuations of the forced dress code; some years it was ok to wear a coloured abaya open, some years you had to be in complete black. But I’ll also always remember the free food, drinks, toys just because I was a child. Children are royalty there but if you are a girl you will get whiplashed out of it the moment a man decides you look old enough to sexualise, because yes that is what it is. I am now a proudly out lesbian but the fear of repercussions and the internalised hatred for myself will take time to heal. My dad would have lost his job and we would have been deported if it came out, that’s a hard truth to grow up with. My mother is also healing from years of isolation and being ignored. She is a strong woman but those years took their toll. She was one of the first women that got to drive, such a win. I feel for this man, children should never be viewed in the same sexual way as adults are. That’s as simple as saying “He’s going to be such a heartbreaker” to doing the horrific mind manipulation and physical abuse this brave man went through. You are strong, more than you think, speak your truth habibi ❤️ The mention of prayer time at malls and the gender segregation was such a throwback. Memories are bittersweet with time aren’t they? Sorry for the length, it helps to talk about it…any questions are welcome
As someone who grew up in a dominantly muslim country and who left the religion , I am still shocked at how extreme it can get in other countries . It's really sad. It's also a bit confusing , because my parents didn't raise me this way and my family aren't heavy on instilling the fear of god .Even in some areas where I am from, sometimes I see people covering up their toddler daughters (they say It's modest but at the core of it it comes down to sexualizing children )or disowning their children when they have premarital sex. It gives me cognitive dissonance. It's so interesting that you're now covering other religions beside branches of christianity.
The covering of children always baffled me. I was always so confused when I saw toddlers or young children in hijab because why should babies have to be modest?? Why are grown adults sexualizing CHILDREN??? Bizarre, bizarre world.
I’m great long time friends with a women raised in the Middle East Muslim community,,,young girls are harassed with touching and kissing from men. Because of the strict sexual restrictions,,,so moms know it’s best to cover young girls for their protection,from strangers and mostly male family members
The Hasidic Jewish Community is also very strict in separating men and women. I was a pediatric nurse in that community. I now understand more fully why I was fired from an otherwise successful nursing assignment. I talked with the father about politics and I now realize that a boundary was crossed. The appearance of friendship, even an intellectual conversation, was taboo. We laughed together while talking. The next day I was gone. My work as a nurse was never in question.
This is a wonderful addition to your interview collection. Thank you for your service. Now it's time for everyone to start connecting the dots between the different religions that use the very same control tactics but in different flavors. Let's stop offloading the hard work of connecting the dots and using "culture" as a shield for abuse. I'm thinking about purity culture, heavily gendered expectations, child brides, male prophets and leaders, women forced into their homes, and heirarchal structures of control which look a bit different but which add up to the same outcomes. We have enough evidence now to recognize and name our similar experiences, no matter the location or religion.
LOVE YOUR CHANNEL, THANK YOU FOR EXPOSING EVIL, THANK YOU FOR YOUR BRAVERIE AND COURAGE, YOUR ARE A TRUE WOMAN OF CHRIST, MAY THE HOLY SPIRIT CONTINUE TO INSPIRE YOU TO BRING THE TRUTH TO THE WORLD, YOUR CHANNEL IS A LIGHT
A friend of mine is in the process of converting to muslim by her choice. Her partner is in Morocco. The only thing I have seen the struggle with is wearing a hijab and dressing 'modestly'.. She said, men tend to undress the women with their eyes more so with modesty than less clothing.
I seriously hope she doesn't go through with it. She needs to do her own research, not just listen to what muslims tell her. I made that mistake. I was very ignorant when I converted to islam and wasted 30 years of my life and ruined my kids' lives in the process. Only when I really started to study the Quran and the hadith, I found out how truly toxic some of the teachings are, and that it's not 'just culture'.
I often suggest my Clinical Mental Health students to check out your channel when they ask for resources to gain exposure to experiences and beliefs that are different from their own. I was excited to see a male discussing purity culture outside of christian religion. Thank you @ApostateAladdin for sharing, this will be extremely helpful for my students on their journey to gain cultural sensitivity, awareness, and competence.
14:11 aww that’s so cute: a kid having a crush on another kid. But you see what religion does? It imposes shame on things that we shouldn’t be ashamed of. 😢
So appreciative of this generous man. @ApostateAladdin, thank you so much for sharing your experience. Your voice is *_valuable and important_* and I'm truly blessed by your use of it. May you have peace, joy, and find surprising, delightful love of all kinds.
Oooh this page is so cool. I love the expanse definition “cult”. It’s a suppression of human rights in any way. I knew someone in college, studying here from the middle east and he told me all about this. He lost his virginity here at college, he was sad and scared to go back to where he could get in trouble for having sex. The type of trouble varied- from societal punishments like reputations, online and personal harassment (if someone found out), to actual criminal charges. 😮
I lived in Jeddah during 1979-1983 as a young teen female ... Found this interview very interesting from a male perspective in regards to interactions with others on different levels..Thank you for sharing the vulnerabilities one has during this journey ... It was incredibly informative ..
It’s so freeing every time I listen to you & to your guests! The guilt feelings that burdened me during my formative yrs to adulthood is slowly lifted every time… Thank you❣️
ApostateAladdin - firstly, this is.a great handle. Being an ex-muslim from Saudi Arabia has got to be one of the most difficult situations. It is such a conservative country. Even with the recent changes, it is still so difficult. Thank you for sharing. And may your future be blessed with fulfillment and happiness. Again, Shokran.
Katar still has concentrationcamps for gay people... A person I met from Katar told me the conversion works, because the people are given hard work and broken. When I asked if he thinks that they lie to get out/ survive, and that in nature animals are gay too and it is okay he said "Gay animals are from Europe.." and I never talked to him again. Well yeah, if one is never allowed to talk, see and get to know the opposite sex it leads to a kind of dehumanisation on both parts where people don't get to learn to deal with attraction in a healthy way... A man who has never seen a woman, will be arroused even by her shoulder, but not if it is normal to see it. Countries that combine politiks and religion are places I stay away from.
"Gay animals are from europe..." .... but yeah that is what the tell themselfes. There are no gay people in their countries. The west makes people gay. Heard that multiple times. Insane.
I’m only a few minutes in and love how this man explains himself and others in his community. Thank you sir for coming on, I learned so much more of the man’s side of Islam
Modesty culture is rape culture and it is harmful no matter which religion does it. I don't have a problem with modesty. I am modest by my culture's standards. But there can never be any requirement or valuation placed on a woman because of it. Some Indigenous cultures wear far less clothing and they are not sex-crazed maniacs. Rather modesty cultures spend so much more time thinking and fearing secks that mundane activity is always viewed through that lens.
Most high demand religions or cults tend to discover that the same normal, natural human desires and behaviours tend to be the best at manipulating for the purpose of obedience and social control
24:00 - hearing you talk about the assumption as "Men as sexual predictors" and the internal punishing for having lustful thoughts about women is something that really resonates with me as an American, black American... something I feel that has been pressed on me as well, especially given the latest meme about women feeling safer with a bear over me. I don't know what to personally do with this, but hearing you talk about it at least helps me acknowledge why, although I'm able to externally support this, but internally feel attacked and against it. In the African American community, it shows up a girls not sitting on boys/non-family men's laps, not being alone in the same room. I will say alot of this is based on hypervigilant response to past sexual violence that has happened in said family, but it never stopped the cycle. 28:33 - Same here in the US.
We know it isn't fair but we're programed so even getting a tow or being alone with a coworker our minds go to a dark scary place because we would be the ones blamed. There is also an element of not knowing what rational fear even feels like anymore, like at least with a bear I know I'm not paranoid . Sorry.
With the bear thing, personally for me it comes down to knowing what to expect/predicability. You can look at a bear and you know what to expect - a bear is a bear and you can predict that it will act like a bear. In contrast, you can't look at a man and predict whether he will be a good man or a bad man, because there are no physical markers, nothing on their body that will tell you or warn you. You can't see into their soul and see their intentions like you can look at a bear and know it is a bear. I know what to expect with a bear - I can never know what to expect with a man. It is never personal or assuming every man is a bad man who will hurt me, it is simply acknowledging that I cannot know for sure, and that I need to be cautious for my own safety.
Thank you so much! People need to see how this type of culture affects men as well. It’s not the religion, it’s the warping of the religion in order to control others.
For this one, islam is the problem though. It's written as rules that must be applied. If it is not than You are a horrible being that's gonna burn in hell.
I’m so glad to see him on your channel, finally. Looking forward to seeing more ex-Muslims on the show such as, The Two Abdullahs ❤ And congratulations on the baby. I couldn’t be any happier for you and Jonathan ❤👶🏽
@@f.maria7835 I have yet to feel that because I’m only human. When I got hit for punishment as a kid , man i remember. That’s how it started. Gotta please family was how it was utmost importance in philosophy. How I was raised .Yes I do see therapist.
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you ! Apostate Aladdin, listening to your language has touched me profoundly ! Shelise,yet again, your insightful, organic way of interviewing has aided in unpeeling the onion of life. I appreciate you! Blessings and keep up your glow! ✨💙🪬💙✨
I really r-e-a-l-l-y need to email you, Jonathan. How best can I connect with you? I don’t have my channels quite ready to receive your channels attention , yet , but I am close! Lmk, plz?! You may recall some juicy tidbits of my story I have leaked., my back story before age 21: Original Cali Ren Faire, Zionist grandparents, Swingers, Scientology, Hare Krishna and AA! I popped thru the veil at you on your baby moon, too! Take Good Care Xoxo
This is one brave man. Wow so much to process and reflect on. We westerners are so clueless and naive to the plights of others and what religious prosecution looks like. We HAVE NO clue!! Thank you for this Shelise.
I feel so sad that this amazingly genuine man felt so bad about himself he seems like he has always been exceptionally kind and I’m sure any loving god is hugely proud of such an amazing person
Thank you for such a vulnerable interview. The male perspective has taught me so much. As a person from a western perspective I totally had no knowledge of this topic for the men. Such a sad and tragic way for children to navigate through life. Thank you to a brave young man with such wisdom. I hope one day you don't have to hide behind the mask to be safe.
Wow, Shelise! Wow, Aladdin! This was truly amazing. ❤Aladdin is my favourite ex-muslim RUclipsr, and I've been following him since the beginning. This interview, coming from a different perspective, still taught me a lot. It brought back so many memories from my own fundamentalist days, and I had many realisations throughout. Yay, to continued deconstruction. Thank you, both! 🙏
This explains a lot living in a non Muslim country . But have many Muslim men living here in current times . They seem to go “wild” because they are so suppressed previously
Wow! Young man, I am impressed with how well spoken you were with such a difficult and personal topic. You showed bravery and heart when you looked at your religion with truly open eyes.
I didn’t even grow up in a religious household, my parents just believed in god and that’s it, and I was still affected by purity culture. I’m 31 and still struggle. I cannot imagine going through these intense situations.
Thank you so much for sharing your experiences ApostateAladdin , appreciated very much hearing what your life was like then, and it is so brave of you to share! Wishing you all the very best in life and to hear more from you here!
كتير انصدمت باللي مرقت فيه هالكبت. هي العادات و التقاليد اثر عليك. بس تغيرت الحياة هلق. الانفتاح رائع. بس بالامور الحميمية انت ادرى. و احترم كل العادات و التقاليد بس فخورة بالتغيير هلق. النساء صارو بأعلى المناصب. بالتوفيق🙏🏻
I am still learning too. This conversation was very respectful, informative, & interesting. Great show today. I hopped over the the extended conversation at apostatealladin. Good show ! Peace & Safety to you Looking forward to episode #3 All the best to you and your loved ones Especially little baby girl!!!!!❤❤❤mamma Shelise and daddy Jonathan
I am Iranian Muslim. My experience growing up was much different then his. That being said I really appreciate that he came on this platform and shared his experience. I really enjoyed watching this.
I am from Pakistan your neighbour mine is also different but suffocating enough to kill a woman alive. Recently, aurat march ( women march) has provoked rage from public especially mullahs and religiously sick person. If you say my body my right you will be labelled as a characterless women. This is just one example. The worst part is when women around you justify the shit.
It's so interesting how he saw himself as a degenerate fornicator yet, he had a choice to pretend on in a religion that encourages the appesrance of piety yet behind closed doors, take what they want; and, orovided you have the right name, status, reputation etc., his faith found it acceptable to take whatever they want from the women, so lomg as a few rules are followed, basically not bringing public shame to your family. The fact that he sought out consentual relationships, the fact he needed relationship equality and that women are to be valued and treated well, not just outwardly but when the door closed. THIS makes him SO MUCH BETTER than most men out thete. Somehow inside himself, and, against all odds and teachings around him, he saw women as equals and that their desires as important as his. He knew deep inside that his view was the moral one. What a gem of a man. A man like him would be my "Ride or Die!"
Thank you for being honest and straightforward about what you experienced as a child and young man in the Muslim religion. May you be blessed in your life.
Thank you so much for this opportunity, Shelise! It's a difficult topic but you helped me talk about it.
I'm looking forward to our future collaborations
Absolutely! Thank you for being so open and honest. You were very easy to talk to! If anyone has any questions for Aladdin drop them there. We are going live on Wednesday!
You made me cry, Aladdin. I'm so proud! Great job to you both.
I love what was said about why can’t god speak to us in a way that’s not copiable
After you did videos about Apostate Prophet i understood you are a liar. So i stopped to watch your video.
I don't believe you are an apostate. You keep preaching Islam. You can say you try to be secular Islamist.
I read the Q'uran 10x. I know the 3 ways u all plan to rule over the West. You are a liar. We Americans do not buy your BS nor do we fear is. Call us what u will, take your phobias and isms and shove it. We do not care what u think of us.
One of the saddest things about this particular Islamic view of male and female is that children are denied the opportunity to develop some wonderful lifelong friendships and the understanding that successful marriages are based upon treating your spouse as you would treat your best friend.
First of all this has nothing to do with Islam but this is very cultural thing. Tradition and culture are not religion! I am sorry to say but Saudi Arabia does not represent true practices of Islam.
It’s not as if they have cousins, siblings or male relatives. It’s so crazy.
Yeah, can’t agree with this. Not Muslim or religious but co-ed dynamics, especially amongst young people, can be super-dicey.
Maybe more people should work as a counselor in junior highs, high schools, and college to see the stats and hear the stories of how messy these “learning experiences” can be and how these “friendships” can have life long negative impacts due to some of the common situations that occur in these co-ed “friendships.”
Lots of people don’t know some of the things young people are commonly experiencing (particularly girls) by having boys and men so easily have access to their space.
@@purpleflows5680 as a secondary school teacher (high school) in a co ed school I could not agree with you more. Relationships at this stage for this generation seems to have more negative than positive impact.
@@syndyjahoor5449Yeah??🤔 What is so much different now than it was before?
I was raised Muslim and wasn’t allowed to go to a movie in high school with a group of girlfriends because one girl had a brother who was also coming. Or else my father had to come. This purity culture is intolerably suffocating.
Which actually as a result increases homosexuality and transgenderism. There are documentaries about how the girls dress as boys to be able to have a life and the boys dress as girls to entertain men at parties where women aren't allowed.
I no
Just saying ....isn't this just about your parents protecting you.
U mean overprotecting you so that these families can protect their own reputation? They sugarcoat it and make you believe they are looking out for u. But they really are worried about their own reputation.@@syndyjahoor5449
High school age with a group of girls and one boy? Protect her from what? What do you imagine would happen?
💙💙💙💙 I married a Muslim. When I left him he made me feel dirty for having sex with him. There is so much guilt & shame and oppression in Islam. How dare.a women want/desire sex or affection. This is not the religion of peace or love. It is the ideology of hate & oppression. I have a male Pakistin friend who was forced to marry his cousin by his mother & aunt. This thinking is insane & 500 years behind the times. Men are victimized in islam too. Forced to marry somebody they don't love. Thanks for sharing this male perspective. 💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙
And don’t forget FGM. Islam is about controlling woman and their sexuality. FGM is about eliminating a woman’s ability to have sexual pleasure.
they fear the female sexuality, bc. she is more powerful than those of the men. Thats why they oppress every move of liberation relating to women rights.
I also left Islam 3 years ago, now a proud Jesus Christ follower, Islam is a cult , a made up religion, we were brainwashed as kids to kill Jews and Christian’s and that was the way to make it to Jenna …. My whole family left Islam …
I watched a video on Sharia law in Indonesia and they claimed it was only in one area only. When I told them they're crazy they told me if I was a visitor in their country it is bad form being rude to a native people who are humble followers. Humble my ass. An Intifada begins that was created by Palestinians to have another reason to try and kill Jews. But it didn't stop there. It went all over the world. Every place that had a majority of moslems and in the tumult hundreds of thousands of Christians were killed in Indonesia. Nobody was punished for those evil crimes. It was obvious that by the fact that all News companies ignored the huge killings going on. Though it was before they could use the fake term Islamophobia. I know the whole Christian villagers being slaughtered wouldn't have said anything other than it's what happens with somebody who's the majority and they will do whatever they want.
@@dianaa3336 I've read the Quran and a ton of ex-Muslims have read the Quran. Who are you trying to fool?
Having worked in Saudi Arabia for many many years this answers questions that we always had but couldn’t dare ask any Saudi person. This man is brave talking about this , I applaud him
You’re brave for working in Saudi Arabia. You couldn’t pay me to go to those gulf countries..
@@Neddoesti love in Saudi’s Arabia, what’s wrong?
Thank you for having a man who was raised in purity culture! I know how purity culture gave me shame, and I have definitely talked to a lot of women that’s true for, but I’ve never heard it from a man’s perspective.
Came here to say that!
I tend to forget that purity culture affects men, too. It's a good reminder.
Side question, so you think 'purity culture' is at least part of why men are so obsessed with 'body counts'? Is that where that bs idea comes from?
@@amandakorbe3773 I have no clue of there is any correlation between purity cultures and this very new term for 'how many people you have slept with' being referred to as 'body counts'. Honestly, the first time I had ever heard that term I honestly thought I was hearing a story of a serial killer, not a gym addict.. That dehumanizes romantic partners to a very frightening degree. I would imagine people who grow up in purity cultures would have a very sheltered and overly-romanticized ideal of love-sexuality-relationships when they get to that age.
@@amandakorbe3773 Don't necessarily need religious or cultural input for that. It's just about personal values if you wish to abstain from non-committal relations.
@@_M_a_r_t_i_n_M It’s just an old turn of phrase that’s been around for decades thats become popular at the moment. It’s not really new.
These last couple episodes are finally really helping me unpack my religious trauma as an ex-muslim. As a longtimer viewer, I’m sorta shook.
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I was born as a Muslim girl in Germany. I have to say that I am half Arabic. My father is from Algeria and my mother is German. But everything this young man said about Islam and the rules and the Islamic society rules are true. When we had male visitors at home me n my mom greeted them but then we stayed outside of the living room. We came only inside when we had to serve something. We even ate alone when there was a male visitor. I never wore a hijab but "simple" islamic society rules were in our home too. And when we went to Algeria to visit our family ... I was always harassed by young single men.
Later I married an Algerian man and he didn't allow me to go outside alone in Algeria because of this harassment. Yes I was even harassed while I held the hand of my husband. A man drove next to us in his car and tried to talk to me. Glad I didn't understand Arabic but u all can understand the reaction of my husband then.
Btw my husband is really open. So when he has a male visitor I can stay with them eat with them and even talk to the male visitor. Because he sees his friends as friends of family. The only men he talk alone to in our house is when there r men we both don't know. Technicians who r Arabic and Muslim too for example. There he wants me to stay in a room. But Islamic society is very complicated I need to say.
I have been punished for talking to boys when I was young. I mean really young ... 7 years for example. The result of this punishment was that I got afraid of boys. Because my parents never told me that I was not allowed to talk to boys because of prevention of sex ... No they only told me that boys are dangerous. So I always thought that boys r aggressive and will beat me up when I talk too long or too much with them.
13:29
I am so sorry sister. I am from Pakistan and have a different experience which is very toxic and abusive. I wish I can write a long note on it. Now, I am trying to flee from my country and Germany will be the country I will be coming in. Are you still in Germany?
i am syrian american and have experienced similar things. its weird because these rules claim to protect you from evil men, so what can you do? I grew up thinking all men are naturally evil and deviant. until I realized that if you socially condition men to think that misogyny is okay and acceptable then it they will become it. keeping the women away, hidden, vieled, reinforces and enables the behaviors. these men are never really taught to see women as people, just merely females to marry, just sidekicks.
Oh my God!
I'm so sorry you deal with this! Please be safe
He couldn’t even give his classmate a note saying he wanted to be her friend?! That made me so sad! 😢
I also wonder if his mom knew that the girl would probably get in trouble with her dad to get that note. So it wasn’t just his mom teaching him the strict rules of that religion/culture, but maybe also trying to protect that girl from her father’s wrath. Wouldn’t be surprised if the girl would’ve been accused of being a temptress or something. “You must’ve been acting a certain way, otherwise why would a boy in your class want to be your friend?”
I feel so sad for the both of them-young Aladdin and the girl he wanted to befriend.
His mum definitely knew. Depending on how indoctrinated his mum was, she might have even believed she was protecting this girl from her son (given the culturally common belief in the temptation of the devil and a generally acknowledged weakness on the part of men to resist it).
Mom was a girl once, so I bet you are right.
Saudi is an insane country. Worse than Iran for women by far
Wow! I didn't even think about that. That's horrible
As an ex-muslim, I am sure that was a factor. You just can’t talk to the opposite sex when you hit puberty.
Ex Mormon from a Muslim majority country here! You are so so so brave Aladdin AND Shelise (because I know people refrain from content like this fearing they would be labeled islamophobic)
This idea of islamaphobia is only to shut down critical thinking and genuine criticism.
I wanna hear your story now :)
Oh wow, I would love to hear what it was like to grow up Mormon in a Muslim majority country.
@@TravelinJenB I didn grow up in it I converted when I was 16. TBH it didnt feel any different than being a devout Muslim, all my family and friends were non religious I was treated as the crazy one who believes in made up stories but my parents were sorta okay with it like better than her getting pregnant and drinking at 16 type of thing...
That also meant I didnt know a lot of the Mormon Culture untıl I met a bunch of Utahns when I was living in Europe....thats when I realized the religion was much much much stricter than I thought. Like even in Europe it was practised in a stricter way than it was in Turkey.
Break the silence. Break the cycle.
I was raised a muslim and had really strict parents. I however grew up in a secular country like America and hated all the restrictions imposed on me. I had other muslim friends but they didnt have such restrictions so I was always ending up comparing myself to them. My parents barely allow me out and usually it takes one of my friends to beg my mom before she allows me anywhere. I was not allow to go out with my male cousin even though he is family. Didn't get to even go to a school camp despite it being on school grounds and also I studied in a religious school. I didn't get to experience so many things and miss out a lot of things. Realized later on that it was because we were in a cult. Had an experience of a stranger (man) taking pictures of me and my female cousin and when I told my mother, she blamed us, saying we must have giggled around him like us giggling caused him to be a pervert. My father thankfully didn't say a word but confronted that man immediately. Another experience was my mother calling me a prostitute for talking to a guy on the phone even though I only saw him as a big brother and even told her that. So much more happened before I left Islam and my parents house. But I never looked back.
Thank you for sharing your experience!
I'm so sorry 😢.
Abusive of your Mom.
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😢😢❤
The more I hear about purity culture, the more I realize it is way more hypersexual than the secular world. So glad I was not raised with those beliefs. I did grow up religious, but it was a very liberal denomination of Christianity.
Yes! I have always said that purity culture is inheriantly hypersexual and perverse.
🤯
yeah they are so obsessed with shmex like no other lol
Right.😞
It seems to me that in Islam when it comes to sex everyone is guilty until proven innocent and once proven innocent you get stoned or lashed anyways
What really puzzles me is how dehumanizing purity culture, especially it's more extreme examples, is to both women AND men. From a progressive standpoint it's kind of obvious when it comes to women - they are viewed not as actual complex human being but as walking stumbling blocks instead. But I also have a lot of sympathy for boys who grow up believing themselves to be inherently aggressive, violent and unable to control themselves sex-crazed beasts. I can only imagine how damaging that must me - for such a patriarchal world you would certainly expect them to view men in a better light. Who I don't have any sympathy for are the people who perpetuate the idea of men and women being ~ so different ~ or even ~ opposites ~ and because of whom even in more progressive societies people of different genders view one another as alien beings instead of just variants of the same thing. This kind of thinking is perfectly illustrated in today's podcast, thank you Shelise and her guest!
With guys it’s easy to spot men who grew up internalizing these beliefs without realizing it. They are terrified of gay men. They believe all men are equally dangerous and repressed so if given a chance, they are certain the gay man will attack them. The reflection, that they will deny until death, is that they believe this because they believe they would do the same to a woman or girl if given a chance.
It’s also why so many from purity culture belief system protect male predators over victims even when the victim is a child. They honestly believe the predator isn’t at fault because all men are just like this. It’s why so many Christian judges give convicted predators very light sentences.
I'm so excited! I've been following Aladdin since he was on Genetically Modified Skeptic some months back. He is amazing!
same frfr
Thanks for sharing, I have seen that video and will look it up
You like a youtuber whose channel is just based on hating a religion? Or in your way “Saying the “””truth””” it’s embarrassing live your life without having to complain about this
I nearly lost my life running away from Islam.Love to all ex Muslims and those reading this❤❤❤
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So glad to hear you are free!! All the best ❤
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So thankful to know you are free!! You are so not alone in that!! Jesus sees you and cares about you! I can assure you there’s so much freedom and healing from purity culture found in Him.
how are people even supposed to form genuine relationships and possibly get married with all these dumb rules? holy cow
it's severely limiting to everybody, having to walk on eggshells constantly
Well I guess this is why all the arranged marriages in many countries where they segregate boys and girls.
It is very sad that Latinas are doing it, not knowing exactly what they are getting into
Islam seems like the religion of just walking on eggshells, there's so much micromanagement on everything you do
growing up in a muslim family i always questioned this too. as a disabled person it’s already hard enough for me. i don’t understand how people can just marry someone after meeting a few times WITH a guardian, mind you. i would need some alone time to truly open up 🤷
Makes me wonder if these rules prevent them from forming genuine connections with women creating a culture of repression and cruelty? Especially considering the morality police that imprisoned and killed women Just for showing their hair.
I thought it was interesting what he said about it being difficult to question Muslim beliefs or culture in the west due to the fear of being labelled islamaphobic. There definitely needs to be a space, in Liberal societies, to allow questioning things. We can end up going full circle and repressing people x
Really interesting interview, thank you both!
Islam is evil, and I'm from America. Um hello 9/11? What is wrong with people I don't know. Liberals.
There’s a great interview with Yasmine Mohammed on this channel and she said that’s by design. Because they can’t punish those in the west that speak against Islam like they do in Muslim countries, they took language from the left and came up with the term Islamophobia to label anyone that criticizes the religion.
@@JustLindsayH Yes! I just watched that video!
This!! Not only are we allowed to question it, we are allowed to take issue with whatever parts we want. Just as people do with the Bible, or with any other religion or religious text. In a free society, people don’t have the right not to be offended.
There is a lovely Saudi movie from 2012, Wadjda. It shows how even the middle and upper class women are virtual house-slaves, and the contrast with the men's lives.
Love that movie! Wasn't it the first movie that was entirely filmed in Saudi Arabia, if I remember correctly?
I enjoyed this film. Sad but inspiring
also this movie
Osama (Dari: اُسامه, romanized: Osamah) is a 2003 drama film made in Afghanistan by Siddiq Barmak. The film follows a preteen girl living in Afghanistan under the Taliban regime who disguises herself as a boy, Osama, to support her family.
Sad ending.
@@illanaismeo
I appreciate this guest. They are taking a real risk ❤
He. He is male. Why call him "they"? It deters from the fact that he's male, a man, _he._ Transtrenderism is a cult
Risk???? 😅😅😅😅
@@sweetiepie4328 YES
The irony of a so-called “peaceful” religion being punishable by death if you leave it.
Thank you for your bravery, Sir.
So happy to see ex Muslim voices on your channel! Keep up the good work!!
The more I've studied the history of Mormonism and Islam, the more parallels I've found between Joseph Smith and Muhammad. I realized I wasn't crazy when I found a Wikipedia article on this very topic, so other people had drawn the same conclusions as me. I think it's really cool to see you guys bond over shared experiences
Is there a good resource somewhere that points to all the similarities in a concise way maybe similar to the CES letter?
All religions use the same game. Trauma bonding.
I also see a lot of parallels between them!
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr beach volleyball?
@@thewakakeboarder No, indoor
Omg!! All my favs are crossing over 😁 Thank you Shelise for amplifying these very important voices
You're so welcome!
Apostate Alladin thanks for being so brave to tell your story.
When everyone is going in the same direction, it's scary and difficult for the first few people to turn around and go the other way.
Keep talking no matter what they call you, the people that need to hear your message are listening even if it doesn't seem like they are.
Thank you for sharing your experience as a man in purity culture. I was best friends with a Saudi man in college. He struggled a lot with purity culture and patriarchy. He put himself at risk for me in a courageous way- I am forever thankful
Thank you Apostate Aladin for having the courage to speak out!
This subject needs to be brought to the light.
My best friend is half Saudi Arabian.
Thankfully, she grew up in the US and knew not to take her father up on his offer of a "visit" when she was 16.
Why do all these religions try to subjugate women?
Religion is a tool to keep people under control. Get them to believe shit that's obviously not true and you will get them to do anything. Subjugation of women developed at the same time as religion in Antiquity
Oh, smart girl! She knew what her father’s intentions were. Her story could be very different now.
@elizabethtovar3603 Very much so. Her mother had educated all 3 on the culture when they were very young. They all are proud of their heritage, (especially the delicious food!) But all are glad they stayed in the US.
With all due respect for your opinions on the issue...Islam does not subjugate women! It never has....if any women has felt subjugated it is most likely because of the cultural traditions of her family which have nothing to do with Islam. Islam gave women the right to speak out against policies of the rulers over 1400 years ago. The right to be taken care of financially by her father, then, her husband, the right to earn a living if she wishes to...and the money earned belongs to her only. ..the right to inherit from her parents and the inheritance remains hers, not to become the wealth of her husband if she marries. The right to keep her father's name. ...the right to make decisions where her children are concerned. These were things women of the West had to literally fight for over the years.
@syndyjahoor5449 Your opinion and veiws are valid.
That doesn't change the fact that 100s of thousands of women are forced into any number of awful situations, all in the name of Allah.
My Bestie would not be a financially independent and capable woman who travels the world without a care if she had gone to Saudi Arabia.
Grew up in a mildly Muslim country, have a lot of trauma from it, Soo glad you are finally getting into islam!
‘Mildly Muslim’
Where is this anomaly?
Probably Malaysia
@@Threemore650lol, dude, I can name you at least 15 secular countries with Muslim majority. Islam is as good or bad as any other religion
@@Threemore650 Central Asia probably(minus afghanistan). Nobody really remembers those exist. It is very different from Middle Eastern Islam because it was more under infulence of Bhuddism, Zoroastrianism,all that silk road stuff. And because of nomad life women and children weren't just a perk and played an important role so had a lot of rights. Hence no traditions of thinking of a woman as a 'thing', no face coverege or clothes restrictions for anyone(keeping traditional clothes, you probably do not know but when Islam came for other cultures in Middle East their traditional clothes got replaced with universal Islacmic things). A lot like Turkey but even more secular. Hoever it is changing with Arab countries having more infuence.
I find the comparaison between Christian and Islamic purity culture fascinating. Different, yet similar.
What a yoke!it is Day and night between them,How blind you must be,to say Yeshua and child abuser are the same!Shame on you!
Mormons are Not Christians, they are Antichristens!!
So are islam and all other Religions!Yeshua is Not a Religion!
I can relate to him coming from ultra Orthodox Judaism, than you so much, I am crying inside!
It's no surprise as islam is based on the Torah, as well as pagan desert beliefs and practices.
❤ you’re not alone
You are right; ultra Orthodox Judaism treats it's women just as bad as extreme Islam & some forms of very strict Christianity. There is nothing wrong with having a religion with good moral values; in fact it is good, but carried to the extreme it can be very destructive, which does not bring one to honor and love our Creator which we should.
But that one has to do with genetics too and grassroot and also rare, even after what been through globally, would be proud or respect.
@@patriotpam581What christians treat their women the way muslims do?
Excellent insight into Saudi Arabian culture and how they twist/apply Islam to justify it. Also an excellent example of how the patriarchy is damaging to men
This experience is not limited to Saudi Arabia. There are unfortunately plenty of muslims in the West that believe and live that. I did, sadly.
100% correct. It is a setup for failure for the common man with no power and resources.
They don't twist Islam, they abide by it. That's what Islam is. Just like extreme Evangelicals do what the bible says. Religion is evil
I don’t think they are necessarily twisting it. It comes from the same core of all abrahamic faiths. The reason fundamentalists-sects are so harmful, is because the fundamentals of these beliefs are harmful. Moderate theists just ignore as much of the texts as needed to be as moral and progressive as they are.
@@katelynnehansen8115Christianity is not like this. Mormons are not really christians they are a cult.
I also grew up in Saudi Arabia. I am not Muslim or Arabic so I grew up in a way more lax environment, however I was still heavily impacted by purity culture amongst other things. I’ll always remember minding my business with my parents, I was 11, when a one of the religious policemen coming up to my dad and screaming that my wearing a simple long sleeve shirt with jeans was disgusting and an outrage. I’ll always remember the 60 year old Bedouin man that tried to buy me at 9 years old. I remember the victim blaming we went through, even when wearing the abaya. The fluctuations of the forced dress code; some years it was ok to wear a coloured abaya open, some years you had to be in complete black.
But I’ll also always remember the free food, drinks, toys just because I was a child. Children are royalty there but if you are a girl you will get whiplashed out of it the moment a man decides you look old enough to sexualise, because yes that is what it is. I am now a proudly out lesbian but the fear of repercussions and the internalised hatred for myself will take time to heal. My dad would have lost his job and we would have been deported if it came out, that’s a hard truth to grow up with.
My mother is also healing from years of isolation and being ignored. She is a strong woman but those years took their toll. She was one of the first women that got to drive, such a win.
I feel for this man, children should never be viewed in the same sexual way as adults are. That’s as simple as saying “He’s going to be such a heartbreaker” to doing the horrific mind manipulation and physical abuse this brave man went through. You are strong, more than you think, speak your truth habibi ❤️
The mention of prayer time at malls and the gender segregation was such a throwback. Memories are bittersweet with time aren’t they?
Sorry for the length, it helps to talk about it…any questions are welcome
I would love to talk with you more! Cultstoconsciousness@gmail.com
This channel is next level! Thank you so much for bringing ex-muslim stories!
Glad you enjoy it!
OMGGG!!! No way you interviewed my favorite youtuber.
🥳
As someone who grew up in a dominantly muslim country and who left the religion , I am still shocked at how extreme it can get in other countries . It's really sad. It's also a bit confusing , because my parents didn't raise me this way and my family aren't heavy on instilling the fear of god .Even in some areas where I am from, sometimes I see people covering up their toddler daughters (they say It's modest but at the core of it it comes down to sexualizing children )or disowning their children when they have premarital sex. It gives me cognitive dissonance. It's so interesting that you're now covering other religions beside branches of christianity.
The covering of children always baffled me. I was always so confused when I saw toddlers or young children in hijab because why should babies have to be modest?? Why are grown adults sexualizing CHILDREN??? Bizarre, bizarre world.
I’m great long time friends with a women raised in the Middle East Muslim community,,,young girls are harassed with touching and kissing from men. Because of the strict sexual restrictions,,,so moms know it’s best to cover young girls for their protection,from strangers and mostly male family members
I mean technically speaking Islam is a really big branch of Christianity
@@colettewatkins8860 Mohammed married a six year old and had sex with her when she was nine. That's the role model. So yes, they sexualize children.
@@azmainshafiq1578 no it's not
The Hasidic Jewish Community is also very strict in separating men and women. I was a pediatric nurse in that community. I now understand more fully why I was fired from an otherwise successful nursing assignment. I talked with the father about politics and I now realize that a boundary was crossed. The appearance of friendship, even an intellectual conversation, was taboo. We laughed together while talking. The next day I was gone. My work as a nurse was never in question.
That's kind of ridiculous.I'm sorry that happened to you.
This is a wonderful addition to your interview collection. Thank you for your service.
Now it's time for everyone to start connecting the dots between the different religions that use the very same control tactics but in different flavors.
Let's stop offloading the hard work of connecting the dots and using "culture" as a shield for abuse.
I'm thinking about purity culture, heavily gendered expectations, child brides, male prophets and leaders, women forced into their homes, and heirarchal structures of control which look a bit different but which add up to the same outcomes.
We have enough evidence now to recognize and name our similar experiences, no matter the location or religion.
LOVE YOUR CHANNEL, THANK YOU FOR EXPOSING EVIL, THANK YOU FOR YOUR BRAVERIE AND COURAGE, YOUR ARE A TRUE WOMAN OF CHRIST, MAY THE HOLY SPIRIT CONTINUE TO INSPIRE YOU TO BRING THE TRUTH TO THE WORLD, YOUR CHANNEL IS A LIGHT
@@jesustaughtme101nice
Nice
Thank you.
The similarities are obvious.
Free your minds!
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Thank you for coming on the show Alladin your message is heard and very needed!
A friend of mine is in the process of converting to muslim by her choice. Her partner is in Morocco. The only thing I have seen the struggle with is wearing a hijab and dressing 'modestly'.. She said, men tend to undress the women with their eyes more so with modesty than less clothing.
I seriously hope she doesn't go through with it. She needs to do her own research, not just listen to what muslims tell her. I made that mistake. I was very ignorant when I converted to islam and wasted 30 years of my life and ruined my kids' lives in the process. Only when I really started to study the Quran and the hadith, I found out how truly toxic some of the teachings are, and that it's not 'just culture'.
The hijab is cultural. It is NOT required under the Law of Islam. Google it.
Morrocans are nice.
There is no such thing as a nice Muslim. If they follow the Quran they are evil.
Las cárceles europeas están llenas de agradables marroquíes.
Wow this is next level! Best podcast! Thanks for having Aladdin. Heard him first on Genetically Modified Skeptic a few months ago.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I often suggest my Clinical Mental Health students to check out your channel when they ask for resources to gain exposure to experiences and beliefs that are different from their own. I was excited to see a male discussing purity culture outside of christian religion. Thank you @ApostateAladdin for sharing, this will be extremely helpful for my students on their journey to gain cultural sensitivity, awareness, and competence.
14:11 aww that’s so cute: a kid having a crush on another kid. But you see what religion does? It imposes shame on things that we shouldn’t be ashamed of. 😢
Its so ironic that this "purity" culture actually comes from an obsession about sex!
Exactly
Nice to see Aladdin here, he and his channel are great!
He has such a calming presence, and your questions were really good! Loved this interview! 🤗
Wait whatt!! Wow, thank you for having him on. Loveee his channel!
Such an intelligent and honest person
So appreciative of this generous man. @ApostateAladdin, thank you so much for sharing your experience. Your voice is *_valuable and important_* and I'm truly blessed by your use of it. May you have peace, joy, and find surprising, delightful love of all kinds.
Oooh this page is so cool. I love the expanse definition “cult”. It’s a suppression of human rights in any way. I knew someone in college, studying here from the middle east and he told me all about this. He lost his virginity here at college, he was sad and scared to go back to where he could get in trouble for having sex. The type of trouble varied- from societal punishments like reputations, online and personal harassment (if someone found out), to actual criminal charges. 😮
I lived in Jeddah during 1979-1983 as a young teen female ... Found this interview very interesting from a male perspective in regards to interactions with others on different levels..Thank you for sharing the vulnerabilities one has during this journey ... It was incredibly informative ..
It’s so freeing every time I listen to you & to your guests! The guilt feelings that burdened me during my formative yrs to adulthood is slowly lifted every time…
Thank you❣️
I’m so happy to hear that ❤️
Talking with girls shouldn’t be forbidden rather open discussions should be part of life
ApostateAladdin - firstly, this is.a great handle. Being an ex-muslim from Saudi Arabia has got to be one of the most difficult situations. It is such a conservative country. Even with the recent changes, it is still so difficult. Thank you for sharing. And may your future be blessed with fulfillment and happiness. Again, Shokran.
It's strange how if you criticize Islam there's a "phobic" attached to it but not Christianity.
Muslim brothehood basically created that word to shut people up.
Katar still has concentrationcamps for gay people... A person I met from Katar told me the conversion works, because the people are given hard work and broken. When I asked if he thinks that they lie to get out/ survive, and that in nature animals are gay too and it is okay he said "Gay animals are from Europe.." and I never talked to him again.
Well yeah, if one is never allowed to talk, see and get to know the opposite sex it leads to a kind of dehumanisation on both parts where people don't get to learn to deal with attraction in a healthy way... A man who has never seen a woman, will be arroused even by her shoulder, but not if it is normal to see it. Countries that combine politiks and religion are places I stay away from.
"Gay animals are from europe..." .... but yeah that is what the tell themselfes. There are no gay people in their countries. The west makes people gay. Heard that multiple times. Insane.
Absolutely love this guy! Great guest.
Hey, Derek! I’m a huge fan of yours as well. I continue to learn a lot from you. Love from the Gambia ❤
This is such a great interview. Thanks to both of you!
I’m only a few minutes in and love how this man explains himself and others in his community. Thank you sir for coming on, I learned so much more of the man’s side of Islam
Modesty culture is rape culture and it is harmful no matter which religion does it. I don't have a problem with modesty. I am modest by my culture's standards. But there can never be any requirement or valuation placed on a woman because of it. Some Indigenous cultures wear far less clothing and they are not sex-crazed maniacs. Rather modesty cultures spend so much more time thinking and fearing secks that mundane activity is always viewed through that lens.
Excellent video! Thanks for having this guest on to share his experience 😊🙏
Hello
It’s amazing to me how much it all sounds like “christian “ cults. It’s all inflicting pain.
Most high demand religions or cults tend to discover that the same normal, natural human desires and behaviours tend to be the best at manipulating for the purpose of obedience and social control
They all sounds the same, TBH.
Religion = to bind again = binding spell = trauma bond.
In pockets of US but has no history
24:00 - hearing you talk about the assumption as "Men as sexual predictors" and the internal punishing for having lustful thoughts about women is something that really resonates with me as an American, black American... something I feel that has been pressed on me as well, especially given the latest meme about women feeling safer with a bear over me. I don't know what to personally do with this, but hearing you talk about it at least helps me acknowledge why, although I'm able to externally support this, but internally feel attacked and against it.
In the African American community, it shows up a girls not sitting on boys/non-family men's laps, not being alone in the same room. I will say alot of this is based on hypervigilant response to past sexual violence that has happened in said family, but it never stopped the cycle.
28:33 - Same here in the US.
We know it isn't fair but we're programed so even getting a tow or being alone with a coworker our minds go to a dark scary place because we would be the ones blamed. There is also an element of not knowing what rational fear even feels like anymore, like at least with a bear I know I'm not paranoid . Sorry.
With the bear thing, personally for me it comes down to knowing what to expect/predicability. You can look at a bear and you know what to expect - a bear is a bear and you can predict that it will act like a bear. In contrast, you can't look at a man and predict whether he will be a good man or a bad man, because there are no physical markers, nothing on their body that will tell you or warn you. You can't see into their soul and see their intentions like you can look at a bear and know it is a bear. I know what to expect with a bear - I can never know what to expect with a man. It is never personal or assuming every man is a bad man who will hurt me, it is simply acknowledging that I cannot know for sure, and that I need to be cautious for my own safety.
@@thnkfrtheVenom it is 100% this.
Thank you so much! People need to see how this type of culture affects men as well. It’s not the religion, it’s the warping of the religion in order to control others.
For this one, islam is the problem though. It's written as rules that must be applied. If it is not than You are a horrible being that's gonna burn in hell.
It's 1000% the religion lmao
Did you even listen? It’s absolutely the religion.
Thank you for taking the time to talk about a topic that I really don't know much about. I have learned a lot from your last couple of episodes!
I’m so glad to see him on your channel, finally. Looking forward to seeing more ex-Muslims on the show such as, The Two Abdullahs ❤
And congratulations on the baby. I couldn’t be any happier for you and Jonathan ❤👶🏽
I've been waiting for this interview! I love Apostate Aladdin!
Holy crap!! This is how I am. Even now. If someone gets mad at me I feel guilty and self harm .
Please don't harm yourself, make yourself happy.....you are perfect.
@@f.maria7835 I have yet to feel that because I’m only human. When I got hit for punishment as a kid , man i remember. That’s how it started. Gotta please family was how it was utmost importance in philosophy. How I was raised .Yes I do see therapist.
Please be good to yourself.❤
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you ! Apostate Aladdin, listening to your language has touched me profoundly ! Shelise,yet again, your insightful, organic way of interviewing has aided in unpeeling the onion of life. I appreciate you! Blessings and keep up your glow!
✨💙🪬💙✨
I really r-e-a-l-l-y need to email you, Jonathan. How best can I connect with you?
I don’t have my channels quite ready to receive your channels attention , yet , but I am close!
Lmk, plz?! You may recall some juicy tidbits of my story I have leaked., my back story before age 21: Original Cali Ren Faire, Zionist grandparents, Swingers, Scientology, Hare Krishna and AA!
I popped thru the veil at you on your baby moon, too!
Take Good Care
Xoxo
Another great interview! Thanks for seeking out a variety of guests!
This is one brave man. Wow so much to process and reflect on. We westerners are so clueless and naive to the plights of others and what religious prosecution looks like. We HAVE NO clue!! Thank you for this Shelise.
I feel so sad that this amazingly genuine man felt so bad about himself he seems like he has always been exceptionally kind and I’m sure any loving god is hugely proud of such an amazing person
Thank you Aladdin for sharing your story! And thank you Shelise for having him on to share his experience!
Thank you for such a vulnerable interview. The male perspective has taught me so much. As a person from a western perspective I totally had no knowledge of this topic for the men. Such a sad and tragic way for children to navigate through life. Thank you to a brave young man with such wisdom. I hope one day you don't have to hide behind the mask to be safe.
Wow, Shelise! Wow, Aladdin! This was truly amazing. ❤Aladdin is my favourite ex-muslim RUclipsr, and I've been following him since the beginning. This interview, coming from a different perspective, still taught me a lot. It brought back so many memories from my own fundamentalist days, and I had many realisations throughout. Yay, to continued deconstruction. Thank you, both! 🙏
This explains a lot living in a non Muslim country . But have many Muslim men living here in current times . They seem to go “wild” because they are so suppressed previously
A wonderful discussion. Thank you, ApostateAlladin for your thoughtful insights.
Wow! Young man, I am impressed with how well spoken you were with such a difficult and personal topic. You showed bravery and heart when you looked at your religion with truly open eyes.
I didn’t even grow up in a religious household, my parents just believed in god and that’s it, and I was still affected by purity culture. I’m 31 and still struggle. I cannot imagine going through these intense situations.
Very insightful! Thank you!
Thank you so much for sharing your experiences ApostateAladdin , appreciated very much hearing what your life was like then, and it is so brave of you to share! Wishing you all the very best in life and to hear more from you here!
What a sweet, thoughtful man ☺️ Thank you both for this insightful conversation! I’m so happy that you both escaped your cults and are healing ❤
كتير انصدمت باللي مرقت فيه هالكبت. هي العادات و التقاليد اثر عليك. بس تغيرت الحياة هلق. الانفتاح رائع. بس بالامور الحميمية انت ادرى. و احترم كل العادات و التقاليد بس فخورة بالتغيير هلق. النساء صارو بأعلى المناصب. بالتوفيق🙏🏻
Liked. Shared. Commented.
Up the algorithm!!
Patriarchy ruins so many lives....
Before War. Great book!!
@@alabaster2163checking this out, thanks!
"Your fear of change is not permanent." That is going to be very helpful for me, I think.
I am still learning too. This conversation was very respectful, informative, & interesting. Great show today.
I hopped over the the extended conversation at apostatealladin.
Good show ! Peace & Safety to you
Looking forward to episode #3
All the best to you and your loved ones
Especially little baby girl!!!!!❤❤❤mamma Shelise and daddy Jonathan
❤️❤️❤️
Treating men as if they are animals without any self control or simple accountability for how they behave is beyond destructive.
I sure am being educated on this channel. Thank you for blessing me by sharing your personal life story. 🕊️🦋💎👏
Really great interview, it was really insightful hearing what it's like growing up as a boy in Saudi!
I am so happy you reached out to Apostate Aladin! Thank you for this video!
It is so so awesome to hear from a male perspective!!! Thank you for the honesty it really helps
Thank you for this great conversation
Anyone who doubts the danger he faces can ask Salman Rushdie about it. 😢
💯
The penalty for leaving the religion is no longer being alive.
Glad to see AA being interviewed ❤❤
Hey nice surprise. I’m subbed to Apostate Aladdin ❤❤❤❤
I am Iranian Muslim. My experience growing up was much different then his. That being said I really appreciate that he came on this platform and shared his experience. I really enjoyed watching this.
I am from Pakistan your neighbour mine is also different but suffocating enough to kill a woman alive. Recently, aurat march ( women march) has provoked rage from public especially mullahs and religiously sick person. If you say my body my right you will be labelled as a characterless women. This is just one example. The worst part is when women around you justify the shit.
That was beautiful! What a nice conversation!
It's so interesting how he saw himself as a degenerate fornicator yet, he had a choice to pretend on in a religion that encourages the appesrance of piety yet behind closed doors, take what they want; and, orovided you have the right name, status, reputation etc., his faith found it acceptable to take whatever they want from the women, so lomg as a few rules are followed, basically not bringing public shame to your family. The fact that he sought out consentual relationships, the fact he needed relationship equality and that women are to be valued and treated well, not just outwardly but when the door closed. THIS makes him SO MUCH BETTER than most men out thete. Somehow inside himself, and, against all odds and teachings around him, he saw women as equals and that their desires as important as his. He knew deep inside that his view was the moral one. What a gem of a man. A man like him would be my "Ride or Die!"
He's a beautiful human. I wish more people were like him.
That was very insightful ❤
Thank you for being honest and straightforward about what you experienced as a child and young man in the Muslim religion. May you be blessed in your life.