Tube amps will never die because ppl like me are waiting for them to drop in price but they never do so we frustrated and just buy one and so the price and the demand never goes down
@@xcx8646 I have several, and I can play them at 2am, in a duplex. It isn’t heard by my neighbor. Or, I can use the headphone jack if I want. During the day, why is it too loud? The neighbor has to deal with me playing at an appropriate level. The legal level, is usually 110 db. So, it’s pretty safe to crank your amp in the U.S. Most cities have a sound ordinance, that stuff over a certain db must end at 10pm or 11pm, in a residential area. You sound just like people, who were pushing digital stuff, and analog amp and cab sims, they do exist too, were new, and many still work just like this new stuff. They’ve made them where one can get all in one, but the digital gain, is still as bad as 20 years ago. I’ll find one tone, usually it’s clean, or a little gain, and then I used an amp to make it sound good. Until it’s got so much gain, that I don’t care about the sound anymore, I can always hear the difference. It’s nust a lie, that it’s so difficult to gig a tube amp. I have two that have a direct out, that has a cab sim, and I can go quiet, if I had too. It sounds better than a modeler, because they use the actual amp, with a cab sim. I can hear the slight difference in the mix, from my amp mic’d versus the cab sim, direct. Yet, it’s far less than any modeler. Whether a preset that some actual musician says they use, or one I made myself. The amps with a cab sim, are always better. I’m not against them, but the next generation won’t be killing the gear market. There’s more than ever. It’s also a collectible, so it’s just not going away. I think it’s more likely, that a younger generation will reject all the pop mainstream, all the digital stuff, snd make using vintage gear part of their gens thing. If rock is to ever be in the mainstream again, I think it’s how it happens. It won’t last, but some personality, or a few, will start a trend towards using the analog stuff. How many Quad users on Rig Rundown? The truth is, that musicians who are barely making a living, use this stuff for things just like he mentioned, then when they are actually successful, touring around, with a management team, they get introduced to tube amps, and how to use them, if they don’t already know, and just change on their own. Recording is an entirely different thing, but most use the mic’d tube amps, when they work as session players, or record in a real studio, that isn’t just DIY in a bedroom, or a small studio, to rush something for a video, or content.
Egnster Rebel series, is a great amp, that isn’t too heavy, and has a Direct Out, with a cab sim, if you had to go silent, or just to go straight to FOH, while still having your amp onstage. They aren’t too expensive new, but used can be found for $500-800, depending on head and cab, or a combo. It also has tubes that can be voiced for a more Fender like tone, or a Marshall, or a blend. And, it works. The blend is how it works best for me. It can play at a low enough volume, and I’m pretty sure it has a headphone jack for silent recording.
@@CorbCorbin I just like options, the quad cortex is incredible and my tube amps are great. Doesn't matter if I'm using the preamp from the head, running the QC through the effects loop or I'm going direct into my interface. Plenty of pros like to mix the two, either can definitely work. You'd be surprised by how much album guitars are a direct signal sent through a plugin or coming from some modeler. The only people that really have a problem are tube snobs but they need their eyes to tell the difference between the two
I started playing in 2008 and have had a good mix of tube and digital units over the years. I've been on modeling/plugins for years, but as I'm making my foray back into analog gear, I've settled on the following: digital stuff feels like tools to accomplish a goal, analog stuff is an extension of my playing and of my own musical expression. I used to feel a lot of hype around new plugins and modelers but overtime there's just so much saturation in the market it's just like "what's the point?" Neural DSP alone has enough software to get any tone you could want. Why should I look at tonehub or fractal or the headrush? The analog stuff is more of a question of "what gear feels like me?" that I don't ask myself about digital gear. It's very much a more emotional experience for me than seeing analog gear or guitars as tools.
@@BillDerBerg Why can't you duplicate lower gain tube amps accurately? I would think if you can record lower gain tube amps digitally, you can also recreate or model them digitally.
@castleanthrax1833 because lower gain amps respond dynamically high gain amps don't. Add that to the fact digital amps don't respond period its impossible to try to get any dynamics from a digital model of a low gain amp
Hey man, with the greatest of respect. There are plenty of units out there that sound like a tube amp. Fractal, Line 6, Neural, hell, even Fender make units that mimic the sound of a tube amp to a tee.
I used to think the same thing man, but I bought a tonex after a gig where it didn't make sense to bring a big tube head and 4x12. And the tones are legitimately indistinguishable. I say this as a guy who loves tube amps as well
@@MHChang2014 I agree to an extent. I have been playing guitar for 40 years, and modelers just don’t touch on some of them nuances a real tube Amp does!!
@bobwalters9151 that hasn't been my experience at all. I played tube amps for thirty years. Dipped my toe in the modelling world in 2018, mainly because I was touring Europe and couldn't haul an amp. I started with a Fractal AX8. It was immaculate. My first tour was six weeks long in every gigging scenario imaginable. It exelcelled in every regard. For the next three years, I toured with a combination of rigs. For certain shows, I'd use my traditional pedal board and amp setup, and for others, I'd use the Fractal. In 2021, I realised I much preferred almost every aspect of gigging and recording with the moddlers. From easy of transport, the diversity of tones, set up, ability to access incredible sounds, and creativity, to the ease of work flow when gigging. In 2021, I sold every amp and pedal I had and went 100% digital. When gigging with an amplifier, I constantly battled with sound engineers who needed me to turn down so they could balance the sound in the PA. 90% of the time, I wasn't even in the front of the house, which really bothered me, but I understood the dilemma. Since I've gone to modelling, I obviously don't have this problem. And to be honest, things sound way better. People get caught up in the mythical sound of an amplifier. Just remember, in a live situation, your beloved amp is mic'ed up with a microphone that colours your tone, then shot through a super long cable to the desk where the engineer will eq it to with in an inch of its life. Not to mention your pedalboard, with its array of buffered and non buffered pedals squeezing your tone through meters of patch leads and power cables. Exactly where is the "tone" you dialled in after all that. At least with modelling, you're sending a pure, pre-mastered tone direct to the desk, clean. The point of modelling is that we all love amplifiers. I hope they continue to thrive. But as is the case in every walk of life, the world moves on.
I think people will use tube amps in the studio for a long time, but maybe not in a live setting. I really hope things like the Friedman IR pedals and the Soldano X88-IR take off. I’m the type of guitarist who wants a product that does one or two things really well rather than offers countless features I won’t use.
I think it's almost the other way around for some of us lol. Making the tube amp sound great live is easy and it never lets you down. Just plug straight in and you're good to go. But the modelers are amazing in the studio. If you get some sudden inspiration you can instantly change your tone to whatever you need for the situation. Some of them also plug straight into whatever recording interface you use
@@AllforOne_OneforAll1689 everything you need for an amp except for the actual speaker lol. Arguably the most important part of playing live with an amp!
@ Well duh lol. You actually have to get more things for something like a Quad Cortex where you have to either get a powered cab or a power station to use an external cab. Also, the digital stuff it's not as simple and doesn't respond like tube amp like the Bluguitar Amp 1 Iridium does.
I feel this. I think my come to Jesus moment was realizing how much I had to chase my tail trying to get good isolation, mic placement, etc. Plus dragging that equipment to practice or a gig. Then putting together the pedals I needed, power, cabling etc. I got a Helix and it ended all the b/s. I see no reason to go back to traditional amps from here out
@@UseTheSupeRsonic my come to Jesus moment was when I understood I ended with no feeling while playing, that I could spend hours and not have my gorgeous Santana/Gilmour/Fripp like sound back, so I dumped the modelling crap, bought a Mesa Boogie Triaxis, a Marshall EL84-20/20, a pair of Thieles with EVM12L... Oh, BTW, there are no mic placement issues with the Sennheiser e906
@@UseTheSupeRsonic Enough to impersonate David Gilmour in a Pink Floyd tribute band for several years... With a totally different gear except I built a perfect replica of a 1973 Ram's Head Muff using Kitt Rae's measurements of his... Actually, it's not just amp simulation that has been dumped, but also all digital effects I can do the analog way and actually, even the recording studio got reshaping... No fuss, I'm OK to buy your obsolete analog gear and tube amps (if you don't already have it) for the price of IRs or plug-ins. I'll also be happy to get your analog synths, a real Hammond Organ, a Rhodes piano... I'm also back to analog recording : I bought a reel-to-reel 24 tracks tape recorder, it sounds absolutely AWESOME... Note that I still use some plug-in synths, but I run they through the MoogerFoogers and thru a 2x50W Mesa Boogie with PA speakers... For sure, I can't purchase the Jean-Michel Jarre's synths collection...
As a 56 year old gigging metal guitarist I use a Kemper because the tube amps that I would like to use have become unaffordable. With the Kemper I have access to all of those amps. I also no longer need buy an overdrive, gate, or delay pedal to make a $3-4000 amp sound the way I want it to. I still use cabinets when I play live and record in the studio because I enjoy feeling the sound in my chest when I play. Having said that, actual tube amps still sound warmer and are much more powerful then their solid state brethren. If money wasn't part of the equation would I be running tube amps. You bet your ass I would! But until the prices become reasonable again, I'll stick with the Kemper. I enjoyed your video, thank you!
Hey, I’m not slamming your choice of the kemper, they are pretty cool, but why is a $3000-$4000 amp your only alternative? None of my amps (mostly mesas) cost anywhere near that much. Yes I bought them used back in the day, but I still have them and I’d bet you probably have some as well. Just curious.
@@masterchef3019i have a 5150. several engls several mesas several peaveys ie xxx jsx . plus several others. I modeled them with my powered kemper. They sound every bit as good modeled.now i just carry my powered kemper and a mesa 4x12 and have every amp head i own on tap at any gig i play. The time is here.
Money is no object for guys like Metallica and they switched to modellers (I can't recall if they went AxeFx or Kemper). When consistency is required you can't beat a modeller v tube amps that never seem to sound exactly the same 2 days In a row. I love real tube amps and I'm developing a real affinity for modellers, too. It's nice to have access to almost every amp and pedal ever made, but it's also nice to have the knobs in front of me or at my feet, not to mention the feeling a real tube amp gives me.
I just bought a used Fender Supersonic Twin. 100 watts of tube goodness. 13 tubes in total. Tube amps aren't going anywhere. Modelers/profiles have their place but so do regular amps. This is not a zero sum game.
I have an original supersonic It's the 50 watt 1x12 Combo. 11 tubes. Amazing amp. Nothing like the headroom of a tube buffered effects loop. Dual overdrives and 3 channels.
Tube amps will always be with us. Tubes will always be in demand even if it is for the HiFi crowd. And that is going to be the division for guitar players. The people who have disposable income will be able to afford them and everyone else will use whatever else is popular at the moment.
Being downsized. I can't go full digital and I'm assuming many of you are also here because you're not going to give up tube amps. The new Freyette stuff made for Synergy is amazing. Freyette stuff is amazing. I'm switching to a lightweight rack head with 1U rack power amp and 1U with a 1U rack preamp and maybe a rack effects unit. This whole package is still lighter than any modern tube head and is 10x more flexible. You can get 10 different modules and run two at a time. All of the preamp modules are amazing and sound like the real amp. With two modules it's less than half the price of one boutique head like a Friedman BE. All of the top boutique amps are available. I have a modeler I'm incorporating into the setup but I plans to have my analog dry signal preserved and I'm going to use a few pedals. A small rack, some pedals, and a 2x12 no head. I have a DI on my pedalboard for FOH. I can use something as small as a 1x12 combo or even a 1x12 iso cab. Whatever the situation is I prefer to have a tube analog dry signal as the backbone of my rig. Digital sounds great but when you're live and you have to rely on house sound you get what you get. Plus the feel is not the same. Tube amps can't be replicated with a toaster. Why not just use a laptop with some plugins and IR's? Because it's stupid that's why. I'm using a tube amp and NO digital overdrives and NO modulation/reverb/delay without a mixer that routs the dry signal to the output without D/A. Delay units like TC and Line6 allow you to preserve your dry signal through your effects loop. This is the tone I've been using for 35+ years and I see no need to change.
I don't think they'll ever really die, but builders need to stop asking premium prices for 100 year old technology if the tube amp is going to retake the throne. Cut prices in half and I guarantee it comes back in under a month.
In germany: Marshall DSL100h is €800, A JVM410h is €1300, still affordable for what they do, but a JCM 800 reissue is €1600... an EVH 5150 or an Orange is €2000++, a Mesa Dual Recto or any "boutique" amps are €3000++, A Soldano SLO 100 is almost 5k. At home in a rental apartment they all suck the same. A 500€ modeler with some iR's that I can plug into my monitors beats all of these. It may not be 100% accurate... But its close enough and the practicality and the versatility cant be beat.
None of my tube amps cost more than an Axe FX or Kemper. Price is not the issue. It is marketing and perceived value. People see all the features/fx in the digital modelling and buy those due to that without realizing it will not sound as good and they will use almost none of its features. A Tube amp with a chorus and delay pedal/rack in the fx loop is all 99% of people actually need.
The tech to have the fidelity and sound quality for fx hasn't been around for 30 years. Now, with these units, there is an actual argument to be made if tube amps and analog gear are even worth it. Heck, Headrush is now introducing super clones, and all the major modelers on the market are implementing capture technology to have specific tube amp sounds wherever you go. For a product that may cost $2k but gives me a ton of amps, cabs, built in fx, and allows routing not possible with analog gear and sounds 95-99% of the actual gear its modeled after? Sign me up. That's a steal, you know it, and I know it.
Modellers for bigger venues work great, terrible if you show up to a floor show with just a vocal PA. Realistically most heavy bands are going to be playing at small venues with uninterested and/or incompetent sound engineers who have never heard their band before. It makes sense to take on as much of the sound as possible yourselves by having it coming out of the backline in as finished a state as possible. That's pretty hard with a modeller unless you're doing a power amp through a 4x12 at which point just buy a second hand tube head for a fraction of the price and hassle.
I’d be amazed if any venue doesn’t have a good enough PA to accept a mic’d amp or a modeller these days. Obviously sound guys who aren’t good are difficult, but they are generally happier with a modeller than an amp.
@@peterjessop1878 You'd be surprised how many gigs are done through a tiny analog mixer and some small PA speakers rather than a decent digital desk. I would always recommend new bands get a proper backline, you don't need to rely on the PA or sound engineer. You are the sound engineers and you've brought the PA, it's just in the form of cabs. If you're playing a small show you don't need to mic the backline up so you can bypass the sound engineer entirely. So people don't think I'm just talking out of my ass I've done a fair bit of touring so I'm speaking from my experiences there. For some of those shows a modeller would have been a complete disaster. DIY promoters just putting shows on and hiring bands they like, no sound engineer or it's someone's friend doing the best they can. Fantastic shows, great energy. Just requires a different approach.
@@dfjklashfklrda-sw5tn Well if that is the case why not just bring your own PA. That’s what we do! The cost of a decent PA would be less than a rack of valve amps and the audience might even hear the vocals.
@@peterjessop1878 I think bringing your own PA can be a good idea, I'm not sure it's cheaper than tube amps though, you can get a great tube amp stack for a few hundred pretty easily
I know all guitarists play modellers through PA systems but the sound and feel of the classic amp stacks can be replicated with a modeller connected to a 4x12 cab filled with Celestion F12-X200
@beemann3548 I own a load of very cool tube amps and a decent older modeller that refutes that claim as bogus, it depends on the player and whatever else is on the signal chain to an equally better full range 2 way cab, several blind tests and bets won and lost are behind me.
So many people today never get that live concert experience of hearing a tube amp stack vibrating and pumping air all around the stage. If you are side stage or even close to the stage you mainly hear just the drums. It sucks. The PA always gives the Hi Fi sound and gives the audience ear fatigue faster as well. Hope bands can at least play local shows w actual tube amp and cabs to show the audience how that feel comes across. Phil X talks a lot about this.
Haven't owned a tube amp since like 2016 or 2017. I had a Fender Deluxe VM when I played in a rock band, swapped that out for a Vox VT120+ or something, and then went full sold state with a Peavey Bandit that I still have and use today. It's a great amp, I don't miss tube amps at all.
I’m a new guitar player, been playing for three years. Fell in love with the guitar, and also testing and understanding and using different types of gear. Have 6 tube amps and 2 modelers. I”m trying to sell one of the modelers and have no desire to sell my tube amps. I wish I had space for more, but I also realize I don’t need all of them and it just feels like a luxury.
I've been a tube amp lover my whole life. With that being said, tube amps will eventually go the way of the dinosaur. They will become overly expensive to maintanence because there's only about 4 manufacturers of tubes in the world. Guitar oriented music as a whole really has taken a nose dive. The tech is only going to get better for amp simulation. I don't know if you will ever get the same response from software as a real amp, but the thing is is that everybody who didn't grow up around amps isn't going to care and that's the important part. They won't ever know any different and the market will reflect that. It'll be looked at as a novelty like 8 tracks and casettes. I don't like it, but that's a future we are looking at.
I’ve been playing for 25 years and I have 12 tube amps . I consider myself a hybrid player cause I also have a quad cortex. As much as I love my tube lamps unfortunately I have to agree with you. I do see amps becoming more like a classic car. Collectors will probably have them, but they’ll probably be too expensive and inconvenient for the majority of people. I used to drag around 4 x 12 and an amp everywhere but the quad cortex allowed me to capture that exact same and I also was able to capture the bassist’s amp and also run the vocalist through that. Now when I set up on stage, it only takes 10 minutes because I have one rack case versus my amp and a bass amp.
I owned a Peavey 5150 back in the day, but sadly I didn't have the knowledge, the money or the space to make it sound the way I wanted. Years later I got back into guitar and started over with a budget guitar and Neural's Gojira plugin. I was absolutely blown away by the flexibility of the software and the range of tones I got just by poking around. In fact, learning the parts of the plugin led me to learn how guitar rigs are built; to use an overdrive to "front end" the amp (A trick I wished I knew with the REAL 5150 years earlier), how to use delay and reverb to dial a lead tone, and how drastically mics and speakers can change the tone overall. As I grew I was convinced I needed a 5150 III and a cab in the real world, but after I bought a 5150III only to realize how much more gear and wiring I'd need to give myself a few great sounding "presets" like I'd come to expect from the plugin I got really discouraged. Two things happened about that time that caused me to sell my amp and ALL my pedals; I found out that the Neural plugins were ACTUALLY coming to the Quad Cortex, and I also found out that even Dave "Marshalls Forever" Mustaine was touring with that exact same unit. I think tube amps will always have a place in recording studios and in the hands of collectors, but as you mentioned, modelers offer a level of flexibility and connectivity that make it very handy for a modern gigging musician.
Touring with Kemper/QC/etc will be more reliable over time and takes out all the guesswork with setup. No problems with mic placement differences - it’ll always sound the same. Use the same IR from the record and it’ll be consistently right. Tube amps will live on but it’s hard to beat modelers for live rigs.
I'm going back to gigging after a 20 year break and buying a Carvin v3m this week. That, my pedals and modeler will make for a great sounding and very versatile rig.
Funny timing, I’m a helix guy for the longest time and I FINALLY got a tube amp in the house. 5150 iconic combo, partially due to your stellar reviews on them. The helix plays so well with it, and now it’s the best rig I’ve ever had. That being said, I’ll probably still travel with the helix, but for a home fortress rig, this thing slays.
I'm a healthy mix of both tube and non tube amps. I like silent playing, and I love cranking my invective with the reaper hp 50. They both serve a purpose now a days.
The two amps in my stable are a Mesa California tweed combo and a Milkman the Amp pedal. They pretty much cover all my needs for Blues, Jazz, and alternative rock. The Mesa just has an awesome feeling under the fingers for live playing, while the milkman is great for recording into Ableton for my ambient and instrumental works. Different tools for different avenues/preferences, but they all have their place. Hell, I’d love to get a Laney amp head just to have something British flavored in my arsenal lol. Tube amps will have their place as there’s nothing like feeling the in the room resonance of an instrument that really can’t be emulated digitally
I think the idea is “if you’re not playing live why don’t you just use a modeler” but in practical reasons if you just have a friend who plays drums that you wanna play with an amp less setup is complicated to set up, monitor and make sound good when you just wanna jam. Tube amps are ready to rock as long as you can carry them where you want to go
Personally for me, I think it's the reverse. If you're playing live, the practicality of a modeler is hard to beat. But if you're not playing live, why not just use a tube amp if you don't have to carry it anywhere?
Unless you have top quality drivers and a sub your PA isn't going to give you an inspiring sound with the right feel. It's very difficult to get a modeler to satisfy a tone junky in a live setting. You need confidence in the tone you setup in rehearsals. Using a modeler live feels plastic and disconnected. Sometimes it sounds wonderful but if it doesn't feel right it's not working. I can't vibe with modeling gear unless it's just for jamming in the living room or recording.
@@Tanax13 It depends I guess. How "important" is your guitar tone? If you're playing in a bar band, a modeler is fine. If you're playing clubs with paying fans who want to hear high quality tone and you have a tech to set it up, by all means. They're just tools at the end of they day. A drill with a Phillips bit and a screwdriver can do the same jobs but you need both in your toolkit depending on the task! I see musical instruments and literally no different at all.
It’s literally exactly the same as an amp. Bring a cab or PA speaker. Plug modeler into the same inputs as the amp. Jam is ready. I can’t understand how people type this out and actually believe it
@@truescotsman4103this is wrong on so many levels. You can’t actually believe that when many bands are using modelers for arena tours and you’d never know.
The rare Block Letters are the ones that have the Sylvania USA made Super 6 power tubes and the early 90s production Shuguang preamp tubes. Huge effect on the tone and feel/response of the amp. Those ones sell for $2500-$3300 USD range still this year. Block Letters without them sell for $1800-2300 USD range still currently (both if excellent to near mint condition). Rectifies depending what revision 2 ch or if early 3 ch, sell for very least $2500-$6000 USD range (depending on condition). Tube amps will never die! The real thing is the real thing and we all enjoy it! If you like condoms, play digital.
I’ve seen several block letters listed for $1200 USD on Facebook/Craigslist. Bought mine for $1000. Your Prices are pretty off in my opinion. The current market for gear is a buyers market.
I absolutely think that interest for tube amplifiers is still there, and while cost does deter people when they want to make music, the desire for it to be there and buy these amps will remain for many years to come. When I was just starting out in the work force and didn't have so much debt hanging over me, I remember eating $1 lunches or sometimes not eating lunch at all (terrible idea, don't do it) just to save as much as possible to buy my Framus Cobra. Now that I'm older, saving is just much harder, and when the used market isn't so ridiculously priced, people buy amazing deals almost immediately. I was thinking of buying myself a Peavey Triple X and found a local shop that had one online (very reasonably priced), and right before payday, it was gone. There are plenty of small amp builders that I want to get amps from too and I plan on buying some of those when I can. I even had a chance to go to Sam Ashe back when they were still open to try a 5150 lunchbox head and it really made me fall in love will little lunchbox heads and would totally have one to keep around and enjoy for practice/jam sessions.
The best overdrive tone I ever got was from an old ZOOM 707 processor pedal. I like the way tubes react to your playing but it's foolish to think they have a tone that can't be achieved digitally.
Valve amps aren’t dead but they are no longer the main way of generating sound from an electric guitar. I converted to digital 2 years ago and couldn’t be happier. For me to run a similar rig using amps I would need 3 on stage running wet dry wet and the cost with a decent effects rack would be £15 to £20k. The feel thing isn’t an issue once you have enough onstage volume especially with profilers or a Fractal. In fact my 335 is much has much more controllable feedback now. I also have found since using a modeller on stage my ears do not get half as tired as when having a loud amp behind me and the quality of sound for the audience is much much better as it it less directional.
I LOVE the idea of playing through a new 150lb 5150 stealth + mesa OS cab + misc effects pedals that I can buy to sound 'maybe' 5-10% better than a properly setup QC/Tonex for about 1/4 the price that fits easily in a backpack....Oh wait....😂
At home I plug into a 50 watt Marshall, then go into a CaptorX and use ir's through headphones or studio monitors and I am loving what that creates. On weekends I am away ftom home and want something simple and portable. I'm considering one of the Friedman preamps.
I must be doing it right, my modeller is under perspex lock and key, I've even got my full range cab mounted behind the grill cloth of a to drool over name brand cab for a giggle ...nobody picked it yet in the last 3 years....including the modeller/multi mounted in a head cab to match.....game over!
Personally I use both I tried to go completely digital but there’s just something about having my tube amp and playing it every once it awhile, it’s like comfort food
I normally use a 2 amp rig through 2 6x12 cabs. I bought a Quad Cortex for fly ins and fests and I have to say the longer I have it the more I like it. I run it with a power amp and can run 1 or both of my cabs. There are definitely pros and cons to both and I am using my amps in studio. I haven’t yet decided if the QC will be my main live rig or not, but I am going to give it a try for awhile.
Been playing since 1979. Been off the tubes for 10 years now. Don't miss it much. Started playing Quilters in 2015, then Headrush through the Quilter, then Boss Katana with the Waza speaker. Just added the Tonex pedal as a side rig. Still have my half stack tho. Two Traynor 50 watt EL34 heads. I agree it's hard to beat a half stack with tube amps. It's just not practical tho.
I'm a touring musician for several years now, using a headrush prime at every concert and it's very convenient for silent stage and IEM. I have tube amps at home for my personal happiness but will not go and play live shows with big rigs anymore.
Solid state amps and modelers have come really come a long way. I have plans to build a super tiny desktop computer - a low profile MicroATX system - and just use that as a modeler with MOD desktop and a bluetooth switcher. I have everything except the low profile case and some storage. I have two spare motherboards just... taking up space. I already have an interface in mind that I want to use for it.
3:30 "Most big touring bands are going the way of modeling" I'm going to push back slightly, they all DID that between 2015-recently, but there's so many now (Trivium comes to mind) that has been making the transition back to real amplifiers. Watching Rig Rundowns over the last few years and been that refreshing change back toward the real amplifier direction. You can only lie to yourself for so long that modelers are just as good 😉
Professional touring musicians can use whatever they want. They are rich, and they have endorsements. For everyone else, all you need is a Boss Katana head and your favorite cabinet. People think they need tube amps. They don't. You try to convince yourself in order to justify the ridiculous cost. Yeah, maybe it sounds a little better, but the massive price difference will never justify it.
You say that like " Amp with tube must good" and that's the end of the story as if there aren't clearly modelled amps that sound better to listeners. This isn't about "fooling" anyone or anything, or lying to yourself or anyone, the only people lying and fooling themselves are the people that think they need a 20kg amp that cost 2000 to create amazing sounding music. Technology advances, and as it does so does sound.
All that stuff tries to replicate the real tube amp thing. I have Kemper Profiler and Axe-Fx III, but a tube amp and a good guitar cabinet in the room ist that thing to be honest. And it is sooo good, that I don't care about money or weight. That's the way I see it.
@@TheCyberMantis You make a good point, it totally depends on what your goals are. I have a JVM210 Marshall and I would go to the ends of the earth for it because it just reacts and does a "Dance" with you as the player that modelers just don't have. With that though, I also own a UAFX Lion '68 pedal, and it's amazing. Best recreation of the Feel of a tube amp I've ever tried. And with all that you know what I play through the most often? The Roland Cube that's on my desk within arm's reach of me right now. They're just tools, I use my Marshall and 4x12 for shows when the load in is straight forward, when it's in a basement or on the rooftop, I use the Lion.
@@TheCyberMantistell me you dont know what you’re talking by not telling me……. The vast majority of touring professionals are far from rich. Only a small handful are, the rest are struggling. Most mid tier musicians work a day job when not touring and they are the majority. It’s not the 1980’s anymore where if you made it to a record label you were huge and had money coming out (and going up) your nose like nobody’s business. What it boils down to is quite honestly most people are too lazy to move a real guitar or bass rig and they like the convenience. It’s all personal preference and what works best for you. I hate the snobs on both sides who completely trash an individual’s preference, most of the time it’s the modeler team that thinks their sh!T doesn’t stink but some tube amp purists are that way too. I prefer a real amp, period. Nothing compares to the feeling and you can’t argue that. But at the end of the day we all have our own opinions and choices for what rig we prefer. I respect both sides.
They will both always have a place because they're just tools at the end of the day. They have pros and cons. Choose your "weapon" so to speak! Tube amps will always be around in some capacity a bit like classic cars. That being said, your '65 Ford Mustang isn't your daily driver. That's what your modeler amp is for! You're also not taking your '99 Civic to the car show
The thing about modelers vs amps now is not really about sound anymore. Is portability, i have my full 12u rack (including an AxeFx3 for delay/reverbs) + 2 100w mesa boogie. If I have to flight the big boys it would cost me a shit ton of money vs a small bag for something like a Quad cortex
I agree with you regarding Tube Amps. However, due to convenience, modelers are more the practical route. I may find myself traveling to gigs, and the modeler I have can be used with my Ableton to control some features. To keep tube amp alive, we git to keep local music retailers open for those who can't have a big amp where their live.
You are absolutely right with respect to the feeling of playing a real tube amp. But this difference to a digital device has meanwhile become exremely small. When I played a Kemper 8 years ago, it was really fascinating getting the feedback from the audience that you sounded killer but the feeling on stage was rather not there....Meanwhile modeling has become much better and even the FRFR Cabs like the Tone Master cabs from Fender which make you miss almost nothing. I can keep up with my HX Stomp against my colleague playing a Marshall stack and have a very realistic feeling of my amp. I still own a plexi and a JTM45. They are only used on rare occasions, like oldtimer cars....;-) Regarding feeling the next (and maybe last) step of development will have to come from the cabs not the modelers themselves. Your real amp is the cab with its power amp.
I just checked prices on amps, right after seeing your vid, and damn have they soared.. I have a krankenstein and a krank rev1 jr and they were cheap not long ago. Now, you'll be lucky to find one at a good price. On the opposite end, I have a fractal ax8 and they dropped significantly in price. Weird.
Since I dumped digital modelling, I've never bought as many tube amps and analog gear! In fact, I've started to record with magnetic tapes again and WHAT A BLISS !!! It's not just about 15 tube amps I have for the guitar now, it's an Ampeg and a Mesa Boogie for the bass, and a stereo Mesa poweramp is used with PA speakers for the synthesizers too! So, I have tubeys from Mesa, Marshall, Soldano, Fender, Engl, CAE, Vox, Telefunken, Carvin... But the tubes are now into the stompboxes as I bought the EHX ones and they entered the recording studio with spring reverb, mic preamps, tube microphones and compressors! I dream of having an EMT plate reverb. I would have loved to buy a 32 channels TL-Audio tube recording console but I lacked the money BUT I could get an Amek Big44 and a Big28 : just merge their busses and you have a 72 channels automation/totall recall giant studio console and if you know what to do to upgrade an Amek, you're on par with a SSL... Now, if your ears make no difference between the real thing and modelling, great for your purse...
Ive been a bedroom player for almost 40 years.. ive used amps, rack systems, ipads, pedal boards… and now I use… guitar into a overdrive pedal into Hotone Impero mini into a EQ pedal into a 🤪 20 watt solid state into a mesa 2x12 cab… and she thumps nicely. In short… i have two tube heads but not likely to use much of them going forward :(
It's my first time seeing your channel, and I'm a 6 month guitarist, so I know nothing to be honest. But you really touched on the Nerval point. Playing is one thing, listening is another. I use a IK audio interface for practicing as live in an eggshell apt. But I also have an Laney ironheart 1x12 that sounds like a beast. I can improve my playing through amplitube, but the feeling on my Laney is a whole different thing.
I am literally just now actively and urgently looking for a solution for a lack of space for my amps and cabinets. The rehearsal space I've long nestled myself in is kicking everyone out and my only current band is rarely active. So I have to find a new home for 3 amps and 3 cabinets and also I don't really have a band to keep them for and crank them with. I'm thinking capturing them, or going from my amps to twonotes to my Focusrite. IDK man.
I mean, I’ve sold all my tube amps. As a regularly gigging musician it’s just to much of a hassle. The modeling stuff is so good and venues love not having to fight a giant amp on smaller stages and they are just so much more reliable and consistent.
Well... as an owner of the Fractal FM3 I must say there is still no replacing a tube amp. Modelers sound good for recording and they make things easier in a lot of ways. But for the feel and live tone I still much prefer my Marshall tube amp.
My nephew is learning guitar and doing quite well. Came to stay a week and he learned about a 5150 stealth 50w lol now he wants a tube amp there's still nothing like cranking up the stereo and jamming to your favorite songs. I have a nano and tone x also and they are very cool but tubes are still where it's at when it comes to feel and response
While I do use a modeler with an Amped 1 as the power amp for multiple scenarios, I would love to buy a tube amp head for a lot of reasons along with just being cool af.
I use a Boss TAE (Tube Amp Expander) with my Fender Bassman 50 watt valve amp. At two grand it's damn expensive, but it does allow me to use my full rig at home. On top of that I can record to my DAW direct from the Fender. I'll leave it at home and just take the Bassman to gigs. I've tried multi effects pedals and amp pedals, but were too difficult to get a realistic sound for me. I'm not against digital as there are some great sounding ones out there.
I love tube amps. I just don’t love transporting them, lugging them up stairs, lugging them downstairs in the middle of the night. Maintaining them, trying to get a great tone at low volume, trying to fit them on the tiny stages we have around here. I’m using a Headrush into a Fender FR10 now and can carry my entire rig into the gig in one trip from the car :)
I have a half stack 5150ii w/matching cab. I bought it for $600 in maybe around 2012? I’m never selling it. I’ll sell my guitars before I sell the amp. It was what I worked and saved for and I was a man on a mission to get that head. For me, I’m able to dial in 90% of the tones I need all analog. So for me it’s a win win. However, playing live at church I can’t use it because I have a great way of mic’ing it. So I’ve been contemplating maybe an AC30 combo to take care for that. For my pedal board though, I do run a Mooer amp modeler, (Fender Jr. based) it gets the job done but obviously, the feel isn’t there.
6:18 That's so true.... the videos of my most expensive amps on my channel are the ones with the least views, the more affordable amps like my EVH EL34 get WAY MORE views.
I've used modelers and plugins and absolutely love them. I grew up using tube amps in the 80s, owned everything from Marshalls to Boogies. I know that tube amps are the source of all the great modeling/plugin tones, so I must give them credit. But this new tech is here to stay. So are tube amps.
Picked up a tonex for $299 for band practice when I travel. Use tube amps when practice is at my place or future live gigs. Played my 100w EVH 5150 III head along with the other guitarist's mesa dual rectum 1/2 stacks=Glorious
I don't know if they are dying (I use both, but I am one of those older players, on the way out) but I love your sense of humor - I was cracking up for half the video.
This may sound crazy, but I swear I play better through tube amps than anything digital. I am more creative and expressive; it's like my guitar comes to life. I think younger guitar players who don't play tube amps may be missing out on this feeling.
Very different play feeling and sound creation approach between tube amps and modelers. Nowadays (expensive) digital modeling units with IR sound pretty good, especially for recording. But if you are a player that use pick or fingers dynamics, on guitar volume and tone controls, and like to use pedals of any sort, especially fuzz, od, dist, and vintage units then good luck. The way one can use a tube screamer to tighten up the amp, or a MXR Distortion + to brighten up and add a tad of "fizz" to a dark tube amp doesn't really work with any digital unit. Besides miking up a cabinet, using analog preamp, compression, and eq, and maybe an analog console before to hit the record button makes a huge difference. I keep on using and buying tube amps, along with the latest technology gizmos if it helps my creation process.
Great video Kyle, I’ve always played tube amps,And always had and still have to many Heads and Cabs, I’m fortunate to live out In the country so being able to crank my amps and not disturbing anyone,But I’m finally gonna bite the bullet and get into modelers I think they do have there place.
Tube amps will never die because all the digital modelers need them for source material. They need the original source to “model”. I’ll always keep and have my tube amps. They are cool. They are nostalgic. They are iconic. They may not be as prevalent, but they won’t ever go away entirely.
I don't know man I find I wouldn't trust the PA or rando sound person at the small bars I play at to get a sound I'd be confident with. Still need an amp, or use a modeler through a PA or FRFR but at that point you might as well bring an amp & cab anyway. I think you need to be playing at a large enough size venue that has a good sound system w/ good monitoring, or have an in-ear system to be able to rely on just a modeler.
Tube amps are dying, but my solid state Peavey’s are going strong! But in all honesty, I’m just keeping a couple tube amps around for creating captures 🤷♂️
I still love my tube amps. Like you said, nothing matches the feel and response. Hell, I'm still trying to decide if a great sounding 50 watt tube amp measures up to the feel of a 100w that doesn't sound as good. But I totally get the allure of modelers. Convenience and consistency are things I should place more value in than I do. lol
I think another big contributor to tube amps dying are modern day solid state amps. Right now my current rig has a Pod Go going into a Laney Ironheart Foundry pedal amp and I absolutely love it. I think one thing that could potentially save tube amps is if they figure out a way to make a 100w amp into the size of a lunchbox amp.
I've been running modelers as backups since the Sansamp GT2 (waaay before the Line 6 POD came around) and currently have a Boss IR-2 as a backup, but my fleet of Mesa Mark series are always going to be the go-to (and for the record I've never actually had to use my backups LOL). Not to mention my Mark 5s have both an IR line out as well as headphone outputs. Maybe just buy better tube amps? I'll also say that none of the complex modelers are very good from a user interface perspective. NOTHING beats knobs for working quickly which is why the professionals will always have a place for analog gear. I think the inexpensive modelers are a great way for novices to find what they like before going out and buying the real thing, and there is great economy in the modelers for modern over-produced pop "live" shows, but tube amps are not going anywhere anytime soon. Someone will be chugging on my MkIV long after I'm dead.
Jokes aside. I feel like tube amps are gonna become an “enthusiast” thing. We are always gonna have them because pro musicians love them for the feel. As a member of the gaming community I see this with retro games. Everyone has moved to emulators to play Super Mario Bros or Pac Man because of price and space constraints. So there’s a divide there too with people that like the real hardware and people that like to play them on their PC emulated, it’s modeling for Nintendo’s basically
I feel they aren't dying, but definitely declining in popularity for touring rigs. I myself, while I do mostly play thru Tonehub n plugins on my pc when in my room, I also got a 5150 combo in the livingroom to riff out n push some air. If I were to join a band again n such, I'd definitely invest in a kemper or some other modeler, you just can't beat them for portability and reliability. I also love building diy pedals, shits so fun. Doom and stoner bands alone will never let tube amps die out completely lol One big thing I love about plugins and amp sims is using them to try out different amps, and get a feel for them before I look to buy. Precisely that has me really wanting a DIezel VH2 or 4 and a Sunn Beta Lead for doomy stuff lol
Fashions rotate. I imagine tube amps will lie low for 7 years or so as we make huge gains in the modeller space, but they'll become mythic and fondly remembered, and then some ambitious company will bring a tube amp back to life that does something very interesting and suddenly they'll be back in the fold again as these lustrous items. That's what I think but I'm probably wrong
It definitely is becoming more of an enthusiast/tone snob thing. In a major band with my own sound tech, it might be ok but I still hear and feel the difference of an amp. The average person going to a concert doesn’t really care about it though, they aren’t clamoring to find out what gear the band had at a show. I use my hx stomps for effects, I’ve never used em for front of house cases, as I don’t like relying on monitors to hear myself. Like I said, could change as the band travels more. One plus you didn’t mention is they are lowering the price of admission for getting into guitars, which is a good thing for the guitar industry, and as long as amps still have a lil edge in feel over modeling, there will always be a market to convert a basic guitar guy into a tone snob. We will keep fighting the good fight! I just bought a Mesa Mark V to match my EVH 5153, and omg I love standing in front of both of em, cranking the knob and absolutely screaming my notes out. It’s therapy.
You can’t assume every venue will have a PA that can accommodate your modeler going direct. I know that sounds weird as it should be a simple process - plugging in a mic cable - but trust me, you just can’t make that assumption. So regardless of your amp being tube or a modeler, you’ll need a cabinet of some sort, at least as a backup plan. You need to be completely self sufficient.
I was a die hard tube amp player, I had way too much money in amps, but I loved them. Around 2019 we moved to in ear monitors and that was a game changer for the band, and my vocals. But I no longer heard my amps, just as they are mic'd. Trying to mic them up on stage every weekend, trying different mics was too much. Now a bring a QC that has a perfect tone and plug and go.
I agree, you don't need an amp, and modelers are incredible nowadays, but I much prefer my tube amps and always will! I also remember back in the 2010s when guitar center would NO LONGER even take a Dual Rec for trade-in because they weren't selling. Something I will forever regret is trading in my Dual Rec Rev F back in 2008 when I got out of the Marine Corps during the recession and got $400 for it. This is why I simply cannot and will not pay 10x that much for a Rev F nowadays.
I'm 25, one of the younger players and will always love a good tube amp. I follow all the new gear releases, but can't afford them. But to be honest, I don't need another amp, since I already have my dream amp. My Mark V:25 can handle everything I need and gives me a smile on my face. Still it would be sick to have some more. I study Music and most of the other guitarists play modelers and I'll get myself a QC when I'm able to afford one. For travelling, shows and consistency it’s just more confinient. On the other hand I know many young musicians in my old local music scene who played (and probably still play) real amps. Guess it depends on the scene. I think there will be a place for sub 1k amps for many years, since it is the best way to hold up against a drummer in a rehearsal room. But also I think the overall sales will go down.
Tube amps will never die because ppl like me are waiting for them to drop in price but they never do so we frustrated and just buy one and so the price and the demand never goes down
Buy one. Realise it's too loud because you aren't gigging. Sell it.
We've all been. there.
@@xcx8646
I have several, and I can play them at 2am, in a duplex.
It isn’t heard by my neighbor.
Or, I can use the headphone jack if I want.
During the day, why is it too loud? The neighbor has to deal with me playing at an appropriate level.
The legal level, is usually 110 db.
So, it’s pretty safe to crank your amp in the U.S.
Most cities have a sound ordinance, that stuff over a certain db must end at 10pm or 11pm, in a residential area.
You sound just like people, who were pushing digital stuff, and analog amp and cab sims, they do exist too, were new, and many still work just like this new stuff.
They’ve made them where one can get all in one, but the digital gain, is still as bad as 20 years ago.
I’ll find one tone, usually it’s clean, or a little gain, and then I used an amp to make it sound good.
Until it’s got so much gain, that I don’t care about the sound anymore, I can always hear the difference.
It’s nust a lie, that it’s so difficult to gig a tube amp.
I have two that have a direct out, that has a cab sim, and I can go quiet, if I had too.
It sounds better than a modeler, because they use the actual amp, with a cab sim.
I can hear the slight difference in the mix, from my amp mic’d versus the cab sim, direct. Yet, it’s far less than any modeler.
Whether a preset that some actual musician says they use, or one I made myself. The amps with a cab sim, are always better.
I’m not against them, but the next generation won’t be killing the gear market.
There’s more than ever.
It’s also a collectible, so it’s just not going away.
I think it’s more likely, that a younger generation will reject all the pop mainstream, all the digital stuff, snd make using vintage gear part of their gens thing. If rock is to ever be in the mainstream again, I think it’s how it happens.
It won’t last, but some personality, or a few, will start a trend towards using the analog stuff.
How many Quad users on Rig Rundown? The truth is, that musicians who are barely making a living, use this stuff for things just like he mentioned, then when they are actually successful, touring around, with a management team, they get introduced to tube amps, and how to use them, if they don’t already know, and just change on their own.
Recording is an entirely different thing, but most use the mic’d tube amps, when they work as session players, or record in a real studio, that isn’t just DIY in a bedroom, or a small studio, to rush something for a video, or content.
Egnster Rebel series, is a great amp, that isn’t too heavy, and has a Direct Out, with a cab sim, if you had to go silent, or just to go straight to FOH, while still having your amp onstage.
They aren’t too expensive new, but used can be found for $500-800, depending on head and cab, or a combo.
It also has tubes that can be voiced for a more Fender like tone, or a Marshall, or a blend.
And, it works. The blend is how it works best for me.
It can play at a low enough volume, and I’m pretty sure it has a headphone jack for silent recording.
@@CorbCorbin I just like options, the quad cortex is incredible and my tube amps are great. Doesn't matter if I'm using the preamp from the head, running the QC through the effects loop or I'm going direct into my interface. Plenty of pros like to mix the two, either can definitely work. You'd be surprised by how much album guitars are a direct signal sent through a plugin or coming from some modeler. The only people that really have a problem are tube snobs but they need their eyes to tell the difference between the two
They will die when the parts become prohibitively expensive to make.
I started playing in 2008 and have had a good mix of tube and digital units over the years. I've been on modeling/plugins for years, but as I'm making my foray back into analog gear, I've settled on the following:
digital stuff feels like tools to accomplish a goal, analog stuff is an extension of my playing and of my own musical expression.
I used to feel a lot of hype around new plugins and modelers but overtime there's just so much saturation in the market it's just like "what's the point?" Neural DSP alone has enough software to get any tone you could want. Why should I look at tonehub or fractal or the headrush?
The analog stuff is more of a question of "what gear feels like me?" that I don't ask myself about digital gear. It's very much a more emotional experience for me than seeing analog gear or guitars as tools.
Digital is great. Tube amps are not going to die. Both have a place, and most players use both.
This is a very sensible comment compared to some other who are sadly biased to one side or another
Yeah my gigs are not sophisticated enough for digital rigs XD
Digital sux at modeling low gain vintage tube amps. You can't duplicate the lower gain tube amps accurately.
@@BillDerBerg Why can't you duplicate lower gain tube amps accurately? I would think if you can record lower gain tube amps digitally, you can also recreate or model them digitally.
@castleanthrax1833 because lower gain amps respond dynamically high gain amps don't. Add that to the fact digital amps don't respond period its impossible to try to get any dynamics from a digital model of a low gain amp
I just bought a new amp And loving it!! nothing like the sound of a tube Amp!😊
Hey man, with the greatest of respect. There are plenty of units out there that sound like a tube amp. Fractal, Line 6, Neural, hell, even Fender make units that mimic the sound of a tube amp to a tee.
I used to think the same thing man, but I bought a tonex after a gig where it didn't make sense to bring a big tube head and 4x12. And the tones are legitimately indistinguishable. I say this as a guy who loves tube amps as well
@@MHChang2014 I agree to an extent. I have been playing guitar for 40 years, and modelers just don’t touch on some of them nuances a real tube Amp does!!
@bobwalters9151 that hasn't been my experience at all. I played tube amps for thirty years. Dipped my toe in the modelling world in 2018, mainly because I was touring Europe and couldn't haul an amp.
I started with a Fractal AX8. It was immaculate. My first tour was six weeks long in every gigging scenario imaginable. It exelcelled in every regard.
For the next three years, I toured with a combination of rigs. For certain shows, I'd use my traditional pedal board and amp setup, and for others, I'd use the Fractal.
In 2021, I realised I much preferred almost every aspect of gigging and recording with the moddlers. From easy of transport, the diversity of tones, set up, ability to access incredible sounds, and creativity, to the ease of work flow when gigging. In 2021, I sold every amp and pedal I had and went 100% digital.
When gigging with an amplifier, I constantly battled with sound engineers who needed me to turn down so they could balance the sound in the PA. 90% of the time, I wasn't even in the front of the house, which really bothered me, but I understood the dilemma. Since I've gone to modelling, I obviously don't have this problem. And to be honest, things sound way better.
People get caught up in the mythical sound of an amplifier. Just remember, in a live situation, your beloved amp is mic'ed up with a microphone that colours your tone, then shot through a super long cable to the desk where the engineer will eq it to with in an inch of its life. Not to mention your pedalboard, with its array of buffered and non buffered pedals squeezing your tone through meters of patch leads and power cables. Exactly where is the "tone" you dialled in after all that.
At least with modelling, you're sending a pure, pre-mastered tone direct to the desk, clean.
The point of modelling is that we all love amplifiers. I hope they continue to thrive. But as is the case in every walk of life, the world moves on.
@@CliveBarnesMusic don’t get me wrong. I love my axe-fx! And they are very convenient!
I think people will use tube amps in the studio for a long time, but maybe not in a live setting. I really hope things like the Friedman IR pedals and the Soldano X88-IR take off. I’m the type of guitarist who wants a product that does one or two things really well rather than offers countless features I won’t use.
I think it's almost the other way around for some of us lol.
Making the tube amp sound great live is easy and it never lets you down. Just plug straight in and you're good to go.
But the modelers are amazing in the studio. If you get some sudden inspiration you can instantly change your tone to whatever you need for the situation. Some of them also plug straight into whatever recording interface you use
Need to checkout the Bluguitar Amp 1 Iridium. It's everything you need for an amp and it's pedal sized.
@@AllforOne_OneforAll1689 everything you need for an amp except for the actual speaker lol. Arguably the most important part of playing live with an amp!
@
Well duh lol. You actually have to get more things for something like a Quad Cortex where you have to either get a powered cab or a power station to use an external cab. Also, the digital stuff it's not as simple and doesn't respond like tube amp like the Bluguitar Amp 1 Iridium does.
I'm 43, guitarist for 30 years... haven't used a real amp in probably 16 years. Don't miss it
I feel this. I think my come to Jesus moment was realizing how much I had to chase my tail trying to get good isolation, mic placement, etc. Plus dragging that equipment to practice or a gig. Then putting together the pedals I needed, power, cabling etc. I got a Helix and it ended all the b/s. I see no reason to go back to traditional amps from here out
@@UseTheSupeRsonic my come to Jesus moment was when I understood I ended with no feeling while playing, that I could spend hours and not have my gorgeous Santana/Gilmour/Fripp like sound back, so I dumped the modelling crap, bought a Mesa Boogie Triaxis, a Marshall EL84-20/20, a pair of Thieles with EVM12L...
Oh, BTW, there are no mic placement issues with the Sennheiser e906
@@Haroun-El-Poussah I dunno why this reply made me laugh so hard, but dude, you need to be a comedian
@@UseTheSupeRsonic Enough to impersonate David Gilmour in a Pink Floyd tribute band for several years...
With a totally different gear except I built a perfect replica of a 1973 Ram's Head Muff using Kitt Rae's measurements of his...
Actually, it's not just amp simulation that has been dumped, but also all digital effects I can do the analog way and actually, even the recording studio got reshaping...
No fuss, I'm OK to buy your obsolete analog gear and tube amps (if you don't already have it) for the price of IRs or plug-ins.
I'll also be happy to get your analog synths, a real Hammond Organ, a Rhodes piano...
I'm also back to analog recording : I bought a reel-to-reel 24 tracks tape recorder, it sounds absolutely AWESOME...
Note that I still use some plug-in synths, but I run they through the MoogerFoogers and thru a 2x50W Mesa Boogie with PA speakers... For sure, I can't purchase the Jean-Michel Jarre's synths collection...
@@Haroun-El-Poussah nice to read a comment from someone who gets it
As a 56 year old gigging metal guitarist I use a Kemper because the tube amps that I would like to use have become unaffordable. With the Kemper I have access to all of those amps. I also no longer need buy an overdrive, gate, or delay pedal to make a $3-4000 amp sound the way I want it to. I still use cabinets when I play live and record in the studio because I enjoy feeling the sound in my chest when I play. Having said that, actual tube amps still sound warmer and are much more powerful then their solid state brethren. If money wasn't part of the equation would I be running tube amps. You bet your ass I would! But until the prices become reasonable again, I'll stick with the Kemper. I enjoyed your video, thank you!
Hey, I’m not slamming your choice of the kemper, they are pretty cool, but why is a $3000-$4000 amp your only alternative? None of my amps (mostly mesas) cost anywhere near that much. Yes I bought them used back in the day, but I still have them and I’d bet you probably have some as well. Just curious.
Not trying to judge your choices but you can get a Peavey 5150 for around 800 bucks, no reason to go boutique lol
@@masterchef3019i have a 5150. several engls several mesas several peaveys ie xxx jsx . plus several others. I modeled them with my powered kemper. They sound every bit as good modeled.now i just carry my powered kemper and a mesa 4x12 and have every amp head i own on tap at any gig i play. The time is here.
Money is no object for guys like Metallica and they switched to modellers (I can't recall if they went AxeFx or Kemper). When consistency is required you can't beat a modeller v tube amps that never seem to sound exactly the same 2 days In a row.
I love real tube amps and I'm developing a real affinity for modellers, too. It's nice to have access to almost every amp and pedal ever made, but it's also nice to have the knobs in front of me or at my feet, not to mention the feeling a real tube amp gives me.
@ Metallica uses years old Axe fx 2s. to this day.
I just bought a used Fender Supersonic Twin. 100 watts of tube goodness. 13 tubes in total. Tube amps aren't going anywhere.
Modelers/profiles have their place but so do regular amps. This is not a zero sum game.
I have an original supersonic It's the 50 watt 1x12 Combo. 11 tubes. Amazing amp. Nothing like the headroom of a tube buffered effects loop. Dual overdrives and 3 channels.
Tube amps will always be with us. Tubes will always be in demand even if it is for the HiFi crowd. And that is going to be the division for guitar players. The people who have disposable income will be able to afford them and everyone else will use whatever else is popular at the moment.
I play a Kemper most of the time but still love my 100W tube heads
Being downsized. I can't go full digital and I'm assuming many of you are also here because you're not going to give up tube amps. The new Freyette stuff made for Synergy is amazing. Freyette stuff is amazing. I'm switching to a lightweight rack head with 1U rack power amp and 1U with a 1U rack preamp and maybe a rack effects unit. This whole package is still lighter than any modern tube head and is 10x more flexible. You can get 10 different modules and run two at a time. All of the preamp modules are amazing and sound like the real amp. With two modules it's less than half the price of one boutique head like a Friedman BE. All of the top boutique amps are available. I have a modeler I'm incorporating into the setup but I plans to have my analog dry signal preserved and I'm going to use a few pedals. A small rack, some pedals, and a 2x12 no head. I have a DI on my pedalboard for FOH. I can use something as small as a 1x12 combo or even a 1x12 iso cab. Whatever the situation is I prefer to have a tube analog dry signal as the backbone of my rig. Digital sounds great but when you're live and you have to rely on house sound you get what you get. Plus the feel is not the same. Tube amps can't be replicated with a toaster. Why not just use a laptop with some plugins and IR's? Because it's stupid that's why. I'm using a tube amp and NO digital overdrives and NO modulation/reverb/delay without a mixer that routs the dry signal to the output without D/A. Delay units like TC and Line6 allow you to preserve your dry signal through your effects loop. This is the tone I've been using for 35+ years and I see no need to change.
I don't think they'll ever really die, but builders need to stop asking premium prices for 100 year old technology if the tube amp is going to retake the throne. Cut prices in half and I guarantee it comes back in under a month.
In germany: Marshall DSL100h is €800, A JVM410h is €1300, still affordable for what they do, but a JCM 800 reissue is €1600... an EVH 5150 or an Orange is €2000++, a Mesa Dual Recto or any "boutique" amps are €3000++, A Soldano SLO 100 is almost 5k. At home in a rental apartment they all suck the same. A 500€ modeler with some iR's that I can plug into my monitors beats all of these. It may not be 100% accurate... But its close enough and the practicality and the versatility cant be beat.
The cost of everything has gone up. This shows such a poor understanding of the costs of manufacturing.
None of my tube amps cost more than an Axe FX or Kemper. Price is not the issue. It is marketing and perceived value. People see all the features/fx in the digital modelling and buy those due to that without realizing it will not sound as good and they will use almost none of its features.
A Tube amp with a chorus and delay pedal/rack in the fx loop is all 99% of people actually need.
It’s all about what people are willing to pay, if people will pay thousands they’ll charge thousands
Tube amps are dying? I’ve been hearing that for 30 years.
The tech to have the fidelity and sound quality for fx hasn't been around for 30 years. Now, with these units, there is an actual argument to be made if tube amps and analog gear are even worth it. Heck, Headrush is now introducing super clones, and all the major modelers on the market are implementing capture technology to have specific tube amp sounds wherever you go. For a product that may cost $2k but gives me a ton of amps, cabs, built in fx, and allows routing not possible with analog gear and sounds 95-99% of the actual gear its modeled after? Sign me up. That's a steal, you know it, and I know it.
Modellers for bigger venues work great, terrible if you show up to a floor show with just a vocal PA.
Realistically most heavy bands are going to be playing at small venues with uninterested and/or incompetent sound engineers who have never heard their band before. It makes sense to take on as much of the sound as possible yourselves by having it coming out of the backline in as finished a state as possible. That's pretty hard with a modeller unless you're doing a power amp through a 4x12 at which point just buy a second hand tube head for a fraction of the price and hassle.
I’d be amazed if any venue doesn’t have a good enough PA to accept a mic’d amp or a modeller these days. Obviously sound guys who aren’t good are difficult, but they are generally happier with a modeller than an amp.
@@peterjessop1878 You'd be surprised how many gigs are done through a tiny analog mixer and some small PA speakers rather than a decent digital desk. I would always recommend new bands get a proper backline, you don't need to rely on the PA or sound engineer. You are the sound engineers and you've brought the PA, it's just in the form of cabs.
If you're playing a small show you don't need to mic the backline up so you can bypass the sound engineer entirely.
So people don't think I'm just talking out of my ass I've done a fair bit of touring so I'm speaking from my experiences there. For some of those shows a modeller would have been a complete disaster. DIY promoters just putting shows on and hiring bands they like, no sound engineer or it's someone's friend doing the best they can. Fantastic shows, great energy. Just requires a different approach.
@@dfjklashfklrda-sw5tn Well if that is the case why not just bring your own PA. That’s what we do! The cost of a decent PA would be less than a rack of valve amps and the audience might even hear the vocals.
@@peterjessop1878 I think bringing your own PA can be a good idea, I'm not sure it's cheaper than tube amps though, you can get a great tube amp stack for a few hundred pretty easily
When my drummer switches to an electric kit, I'll go to a pedal board! Until that day, GAME ON!!!
Exactly. As long as people play real drums, guitar players will use tube amps.
Apples to oranges, but very funny hahahhaha
Ye olde false equivalency rears its ugly head
When your drummer switches to an electric kit, You'll go to an electic guitar with amp! Until that day, you play an acoustic guitar.
I had no idea the Quad Cortex could run so many guitars at the same time. That's pretty impressive.
Never...nothing beats standing in front of a stack of sonic violence and gettin your shit rocked in every way
I know all guitarists play modellers through PA systems but the sound and feel of the classic amp stacks can be replicated with a modeller connected to a 4x12 cab filled with Celestion F12-X200
@beemann3548 I own a load of very cool tube amps and a decent older modeller that refutes that claim as bogus, it depends on the player and whatever else is on the signal chain to an equally better full range 2 way cab, several blind tests and bets won and lost are behind me.
So many people today never get that live concert experience of hearing a tube amp stack vibrating and pumping air all around the stage. If you are side stage or even close to the stage you mainly hear just the drums. It sucks. The PA always gives the Hi Fi sound and gives the audience ear fatigue faster as well. Hope bands can at least play local shows w actual tube amp and cabs to show the audience how that feel comes across. Phil X talks a lot about this.
Truth!
@@ajimotor96 this is inaccurate BS. A lot of people run modelers into cabs.
Bought a Friedman Plex and it reminded me why I love a real amp. Unloading half my pedals and computer thingys.
'I hope you are doing so well that it makes you physically uncomfortable today'
I got a good laugh from that, and I'm jaded. Nice one!
Haven't owned a tube amp since like 2016 or 2017. I had a Fender Deluxe VM when I played in a rock band, swapped that out for a Vox VT120+ or something, and then went full sold state with a Peavey Bandit that I still have and use today. It's a great amp, I don't miss tube amps at all.
If tube amps are dying then I'll have a Marshall Silver Jubilee if y'all don't need anything worthless like that anymore haha...
As interesting as modelers are I'll stay with my tube amps. Thanks Kyle and stay belligerent 🤘
Read my above post,you can use a modeler with your tube amp and have the best of both worlds!
I’m a new guitar player, been playing for three years. Fell in love with the guitar, and also testing and understanding and using different types of gear. Have 6 tube amps and 2 modelers. I”m trying to sell one of the modelers and have no desire to sell my tube amps. I wish I had space for more, but I also realize I don’t need all of them and it just feels like a luxury.
I've been a tube amp lover my whole life. With that being said, tube amps will eventually go the way of the dinosaur. They will become overly expensive to maintanence because there's only about 4 manufacturers of tubes in the world. Guitar oriented music as a whole really has taken a nose dive. The tech is only going to get better for amp simulation. I don't know if you will ever get the same response from software as a real amp, but the thing is is that everybody who didn't grow up around amps isn't going to care and that's the important part. They won't ever know any different and the market will reflect that. It'll be looked at as a novelty like 8 tracks and casettes. I don't like it, but that's a future we are looking at.
tubes are not hard to manufacture at all, tubes running out is never going to be an issue except in nuclear war or something.
I’ve been playing for 25 years and I have 12 tube amps . I consider myself a hybrid player cause I also have a quad cortex. As much as I love my tube lamps unfortunately I have to agree with you. I do see amps becoming more like a classic car. Collectors will probably have them, but they’ll probably be too expensive and inconvenient for the majority of people. I used to drag around 4 x 12 and an amp everywhere but the quad cortex allowed me to capture that exact same and I also was able to capture the bassist’s amp and also run the vocalist through that. Now when I set up on stage, it only takes 10 minutes because I have one rack case versus my amp and a bass amp.
That intro was pure art
I owned a Peavey 5150 back in the day, but sadly I didn't have the knowledge, the money or the space to make it sound the way I wanted. Years later I got back into guitar and started over with a budget guitar and Neural's Gojira plugin. I was absolutely blown away by the flexibility of the software and the range of tones I got just by poking around. In fact, learning the parts of the plugin led me to learn how guitar rigs are built; to use an overdrive to "front end" the amp (A trick I wished I knew with the REAL 5150 years earlier), how to use delay and reverb to dial a lead tone, and how drastically mics and speakers can change the tone overall. As I grew I was convinced I needed a 5150 III and a cab in the real world, but after I bought a 5150III only to realize how much more gear and wiring I'd need to give myself a few great sounding "presets" like I'd come to expect from the plugin I got really discouraged. Two things happened about that time that caused me to sell my amp and ALL my pedals; I found out that the Neural plugins were ACTUALLY coming to the Quad Cortex, and I also found out that even Dave "Marshalls Forever" Mustaine was touring with that exact same unit. I think tube amps will always have a place in recording studios and in the hands of collectors, but as you mentioned, modelers offer a level of flexibility and connectivity that make it very handy for a modern gigging musician.
Touring with Kemper/QC/etc will be more reliable over time and takes out all the guesswork with setup. No problems with mic placement differences - it’ll always sound the same. Use the same IR from the record and it’ll be consistently right. Tube amps will live on but it’s hard to beat modelers for live rigs.
I'm going back to gigging after a 20 year break and buying a Carvin v3m this week. That, my pedals and modeler will make for a great sounding and very versatile rig.
Funny timing, I’m a helix guy for the longest time and I FINALLY got a tube amp in the house. 5150 iconic combo, partially due to your stellar reviews on them. The helix plays so well with it, and now it’s the best rig I’ve ever had.
That being said, I’ll probably still travel with the helix, but for a home fortress rig, this thing slays.
I'm a healthy mix of both tube and non tube amps. I like silent playing, and I love cranking my invective with the reaper hp 50. They both serve a purpose now a days.
The two amps in my stable are a Mesa California tweed combo and a Milkman the Amp pedal. They pretty much cover all my needs for Blues, Jazz, and alternative rock. The Mesa just has an awesome feeling under the fingers for live playing, while the milkman is great for recording into Ableton for my ambient and instrumental works. Different tools for different avenues/preferences, but they all have their place. Hell, I’d love to get a Laney amp head just to have something British flavored in my arsenal lol. Tube amps will have their place as there’s nothing like feeling the in the room resonance of an instrument that really can’t be emulated digitally
I think the idea is “if you’re not playing live why don’t you just use a modeler” but in practical reasons if you just have a friend who plays drums that you wanna play with an amp less setup is complicated to set up, monitor and make sound good when you just wanna jam. Tube amps are ready to rock as long as you can carry them where you want to go
Personally for me, I think it's the reverse. If you're playing live, the practicality of a modeler is hard to beat. But if you're not playing live, why not just use a tube amp if you don't have to carry it anywhere?
Unless you have top quality drivers and a sub your PA isn't going to give you an inspiring sound with the right feel. It's very difficult to get a modeler to satisfy a tone junky in a live setting. You need confidence in the tone you setup in rehearsals. Using a modeler live feels plastic and disconnected. Sometimes it sounds wonderful but if it doesn't feel right it's not working. I can't vibe with modeling gear unless it's just for jamming in the living room or recording.
@@Tanax13 It depends I guess. How "important" is your guitar tone? If you're playing in a bar band, a modeler is fine. If you're playing clubs with paying fans who want to hear high quality tone and you have a tech to set it up, by all means. They're just tools at the end of they day. A drill with a Phillips bit and a screwdriver can do the same jobs but you need both in your toolkit depending on the task! I see musical instruments and literally no different at all.
It’s literally exactly the same as an amp. Bring a cab or PA speaker. Plug modeler into the same inputs as the amp. Jam is ready. I can’t understand how people type this out and actually believe it
@@truescotsman4103this is wrong on so many levels. You can’t actually believe that when many bands are using modelers for arena tours and you’d never know.
I have both and love both. Love my Axe Fx 3, but just bought a Soldano Astro the other day and its awesome, as well.
The rare Block Letters are the ones that have the Sylvania USA made Super 6 power tubes and the early 90s production Shuguang preamp tubes. Huge effect on the tone and feel/response of the amp. Those ones sell for $2500-$3300 USD range still this year. Block Letters without them sell for $1800-2300 USD range still currently (both if excellent to near mint condition). Rectifies depending what revision 2 ch or if early 3 ch, sell for very least $2500-$6000 USD range (depending on condition). Tube amps will never die! The real thing is the real thing and we all enjoy it! If you like condoms, play digital.
I don't like condoms.
I’ve seen several block letters listed for $1200 USD on Facebook/Craigslist. Bought mine for $1000. Your Prices are pretty off in my opinion. The current market for gear is a buyers market.
what about the blu iridium amps or whatever they are called? do they feel organic like normal tube amps?
Kyle got Mesa 150 Watt Triple Rec w/ OS Slant Cab Celestians are you interested?
A good set of headphone with a stereo patch on a modeler can go a long way getting some fun back!
I'm using a modeler, I miss having an amp. I just don't have the space for an amp right now.
I absolutely think that interest for tube amplifiers is still there, and while cost does deter people when they want to make music, the desire for it to be there and buy these amps will remain for many years to come. When I was just starting out in the work force and didn't have so much debt hanging over me, I remember eating $1 lunches or sometimes not eating lunch at all (terrible idea, don't do it) just to save as much as possible to buy my Framus Cobra. Now that I'm older, saving is just much harder, and when the used market isn't so ridiculously priced, people buy amazing deals almost immediately. I was thinking of buying myself a Peavey Triple X and found a local shop that had one online (very reasonably priced), and right before payday, it was gone.
There are plenty of small amp builders that I want to get amps from too and I plan on buying some of those when I can. I even had a chance to go to Sam Ashe back when they were still open to try a 5150 lunchbox head and it really made me fall in love will little lunchbox heads and would totally have one to keep around and enjoy for practice/jam sessions.
The best overdrive tone I ever got was from an old ZOOM 707 processor pedal. I like the way tubes react to your playing but it's foolish to think they have a tone that can't be achieved digitally.
Valve amps aren’t dead but they are no longer the main way of generating sound from an electric guitar. I converted to digital 2 years ago and couldn’t be happier. For me to run a similar rig using amps I would need 3 on stage running wet dry wet and the cost with a decent effects rack would be £15 to £20k. The feel thing isn’t an issue once you have enough onstage volume especially with profilers or a Fractal. In fact my 335 is much has much more controllable feedback now. I also have found since using a modeller on stage my ears do not get half as tired as when having a loud amp behind me and the quality of sound for the audience is much much better as it it less directional.
What modeller are you using
@@Ram-zw7qz Fractal Audio FM9
I LOVE the idea of playing through a new 150lb 5150 stealth + mesa OS cab + misc effects pedals that I can buy to sound 'maybe' 5-10% better than a properly setup QC/Tonex for about 1/4 the price that fits easily in a backpack....Oh wait....😂
At home I plug into a 50 watt Marshall, then go into a CaptorX and use ir's through headphones or studio monitors and I am loving what that creates. On weekends I am away ftom home and want something simple and portable. I'm considering one of the Friedman preamps.
I must be doing it right, my modeller is under perspex lock and key, I've even got my full range cab mounted behind the grill cloth of a to drool over name brand cab for a giggle ...nobody picked it yet in the last 3 years....including the modeller/multi mounted in a head cab to match.....game over!
Personally I use both I tried to go completely digital but there’s just something about having my tube amp and playing it every once it awhile, it’s like comfort food
I normally use a 2 amp rig through 2 6x12 cabs. I bought a Quad Cortex for fly ins and fests and I have to say the longer I have it the more I like it. I run it with a power amp and can run 1 or both of my cabs. There are definitely pros and cons to both and I am using my amps in studio. I haven’t yet decided if the QC will be my main live rig or not, but I am going to give it a try for awhile.
Been playing since 1979. Been off the tubes for 10 years now. Don't miss it much. Started playing Quilters in 2015, then Headrush through the Quilter, then Boss Katana with the Waza speaker. Just added the Tonex pedal as a side rig. Still have my half stack tho. Two Traynor 50 watt EL34 heads. I agree it's hard to beat a half stack with tube amps. It's just not practical tho.
I'm a touring musician for several years now, using a headrush prime at every concert and it's very convenient for silent stage and IEM. I have tube amps at home for my personal happiness but will not go and play live shows with big rigs anymore.
Ditto! except I'm not into Headrush gear personally.
Solid state amps and modelers have come really come a long way. I have plans to build a super tiny desktop computer - a low profile MicroATX system - and just use that as a modeler with MOD desktop and a bluetooth switcher. I have everything except the low profile case and some storage. I have two spare motherboards just... taking up space. I already have an interface in mind that I want to use for it.
3:30 "Most big touring bands are going the way of modeling" I'm going to push back slightly, they all DID that between 2015-recently, but there's so many now (Trivium comes to mind) that has been making the transition back to real amplifiers. Watching Rig Rundowns over the last few years and been that refreshing change back toward the real amplifier direction. You can only lie to yourself for so long that modelers are just as good 😉
Professional touring musicians can use whatever they want. They are rich, and they have endorsements. For everyone else, all you need is a Boss Katana head and your favorite cabinet. People think they need tube amps. They don't. You try to convince yourself in order to justify the ridiculous cost. Yeah, maybe it sounds a little better, but the massive price difference will never justify it.
You say that like " Amp with tube must good" and that's the end of the story as if there aren't clearly modelled amps that sound better to listeners. This isn't about "fooling" anyone or anything, or lying to yourself or anyone, the only people lying and fooling themselves are the people that think they need a 20kg amp that cost 2000 to create amazing sounding music. Technology advances, and as it does so does sound.
All that stuff tries to replicate the real tube amp thing. I have Kemper Profiler and Axe-Fx III, but a tube amp and a good guitar cabinet in the room ist that thing to be honest. And it is sooo good, that I don't care about money or weight. That's the way I see it.
@@TheCyberMantis You make a good point, it totally depends on what your goals are. I have a JVM210 Marshall and I would go to the ends of the earth for it because it just reacts and does a "Dance" with you as the player that modelers just don't have. With that though, I also own a UAFX Lion '68 pedal, and it's amazing. Best recreation of the Feel of a tube amp I've ever tried.
And with all that you know what I play through the most often? The Roland Cube that's on my desk within arm's reach of me right now.
They're just tools, I use my Marshall and 4x12 for shows when the load in is straight forward, when it's in a basement or on the rooftop, I use the Lion.
@@TheCyberMantistell me you dont know what you’re talking by not telling me……. The vast majority of touring professionals are far from rich. Only a small handful are, the rest are struggling. Most mid tier musicians work a day job when not touring and they are the majority. It’s not the 1980’s anymore where if you made it to a record label you were huge and had money coming out (and going up) your nose like nobody’s business. What it boils down to is quite honestly most people are too lazy to move a real guitar or bass rig and they like the convenience. It’s all personal preference and what works best for you. I hate the snobs on both sides who completely trash an individual’s preference, most of the time it’s the modeler team that thinks their sh!T doesn’t stink but some tube amp purists are that way too. I prefer a real amp, period. Nothing compares to the feeling and you can’t argue that. But at the end of the day we all have our own opinions and choices for what rig we prefer. I respect both sides.
They will both always have a place because they're just tools at the end of the day. They have pros and cons. Choose your "weapon" so to speak! Tube amps will always be around in some capacity a bit like classic cars. That being said, your '65 Ford Mustang isn't your daily driver. That's what your modeler amp is for! You're also not taking your '99 Civic to the car show
The thing about modelers vs amps now is not really about sound anymore. Is portability, i have my full 12u rack (including an AxeFx3 for delay/reverbs) + 2 100w mesa boogie. If I have to flight the big boys it would cost me a shit ton of money vs a small bag for something like a Quad cortex
I'd love to see some blind A/B tests where people try to "feel" which one is the modeler and which one is a real amp.
I agree with you regarding Tube Amps. However, due to convenience, modelers are more the practical route. I may find myself traveling to gigs, and the modeler I have can be used with my Ableton to control some features. To keep tube amp alive, we git to keep local music retailers open for those who can't have a big amp where their live.
You are absolutely right with respect to the feeling of playing a real tube amp. But this difference to a digital device has meanwhile become exremely small. When I played a Kemper 8 years ago, it was really fascinating getting the feedback from the audience that you sounded killer but the feeling on stage was rather not there....Meanwhile modeling has become much better and even the FRFR Cabs like the Tone Master cabs from Fender which make you miss almost nothing. I can keep up with my HX Stomp against my colleague playing a Marshall stack and have a very realistic feeling of my amp. I still own a plexi and a JTM45. They are only used on rare occasions, like oldtimer cars....;-) Regarding feeling the next (and maybe last) step of development will have to come from the cabs not the modelers themselves. Your real amp is the cab with its power amp.
I just checked prices on amps, right after seeing your vid, and damn have they soared.. I have a krankenstein and a krank rev1 jr and they were cheap not long ago. Now, you'll be lucky to find one at a good price. On the opposite end, I have a fractal ax8 and they dropped significantly in price. Weird.
Since I dumped digital modelling, I've never bought as many tube amps and analog gear! In fact, I've started to record with magnetic tapes again and WHAT A BLISS !!! It's not just about 15 tube amps I have for the guitar now, it's an Ampeg and a Mesa Boogie for the bass, and a stereo Mesa poweramp is used with PA speakers for the synthesizers too!
So, I have tubeys from Mesa, Marshall, Soldano, Fender, Engl, CAE, Vox, Telefunken, Carvin...
But the tubes are now into the stompboxes as I bought the EHX ones and they entered the recording studio with spring reverb, mic preamps, tube microphones and compressors! I dream of having an EMT plate reverb. I would have loved to buy a 32 channels TL-Audio tube recording console but I lacked the money BUT I could get an Amek Big44 and a Big28 : just merge their busses and you have a 72 channels automation/totall recall giant studio console and if you know what to do to upgrade an Amek, you're on par with a SSL...
Now, if your ears make no difference between the real thing and modelling, great for your purse...
Ive been a bedroom player for almost 40 years.. ive used amps, rack systems, ipads, pedal boards… and now I use… guitar into a overdrive pedal into Hotone Impero mini into a EQ pedal into a 🤪 20 watt solid state into a mesa 2x12 cab… and she thumps nicely. In short… i have two tube heads but not likely to use much of them going forward :(
It's my first time seeing your channel, and I'm a 6 month guitarist, so I know nothing to be honest. But you really touched on the Nerval point. Playing is one thing, listening is another. I use a IK audio interface for practicing as live in an eggshell apt. But I also have an Laney ironheart 1x12 that sounds like a beast. I can improve my playing through amplitube, but the feeling on my Laney is a whole different thing.
I am literally just now actively and urgently looking for a solution for a lack of space for my amps and cabinets. The rehearsal space I've long nestled myself in is kicking everyone out and my only current band is rarely active. So I have to find a new home for 3 amps and 3 cabinets and also I don't really have a band to keep them for and crank them with.
I'm thinking capturing them, or going from my amps to twonotes to my Focusrite. IDK man.
I mean, I’ve sold all my tube amps. As a regularly gigging musician it’s just to much of a hassle. The modeling stuff is so good and venues love not having to fight a giant amp on smaller stages and they are just so much more reliable and consistent.
More like being lazy than a hassle...
@ 🤣🤣🤣
I purchased the Fender Panoverb last month. I also have a Kemper, so the best of both worlds.
Well... as an owner of the Fractal FM3 I must say there is still no replacing a tube amp. Modelers sound good for recording and they make things easier in a lot of ways. But for the feel and live tone I still much prefer my Marshall tube amp.
My nephew is learning guitar and doing quite well. Came to stay a week and he learned about a 5150 stealth 50w lol now he wants a tube amp there's still nothing like cranking up the stereo and jamming to your favorite songs. I have a nano and tone x also and they are very cool but tubes are still where it's at when it comes to feel and response
While I do use a modeler with an Amped 1 as the power amp for multiple scenarios, I would love to buy a tube amp head for a lot of reasons along with just being cool af.
I use a Boss TAE (Tube Amp Expander) with my Fender Bassman 50 watt valve amp. At two grand it's damn expensive, but it does allow me to use my full rig at home. On top of that I can record to my DAW direct from the Fender. I'll leave it at home and just take the Bassman to gigs. I've tried multi effects pedals and amp pedals, but were too difficult to get a realistic sound for me.
I'm not against digital as there are some great sounding ones out there.
I love tube amps. I just don’t love transporting them, lugging them up stairs, lugging them downstairs in the middle of the night. Maintaining them, trying to get a great tone at low volume, trying to fit them on the tiny stages we have around here. I’m using a Headrush into a Fender FR10 now and can carry my entire rig into the gig in one trip from the car :)
I must be insane, been a hybrid and solid state guy for most of my time playing bass, then jumped into the tube world with JPTR FX lol.
Yep. That's why I have 10 x 100W heads in my house...cuz they are dying. My house is the tube amp cemetary.
I have a half stack 5150ii w/matching cab. I bought it for $600 in maybe around 2012? I’m never selling it. I’ll sell my guitars before I sell the amp. It was what I worked and saved for and I was a man on a mission to get that head. For me, I’m able to dial in 90% of the tones I need all analog. So for me it’s a win win. However, playing live at church I can’t use it because I have a great way of mic’ing it. So I’ve been contemplating maybe an AC30 combo to take care for that. For my pedal board though, I do run a Mooer amp modeler, (Fender Jr. based) it gets the job done but obviously, the feel isn’t there.
6:18 That's so true.... the videos of my most expensive amps on my channel are the ones with the least views, the more affordable amps like my EVH EL34 get WAY MORE views.
I have a Tonex pedal that I'm trying to bond with. But yeah, nothing FEELS like playing through an actual amp and cab.
I've used modelers and plugins and absolutely love them. I grew up using tube amps in the 80s, owned everything from Marshalls to Boogies. I know that tube amps are the source of all the great modeling/plugin tones, so I must give them credit. But this new tech is here to stay. So are tube amps.
Picked up a tonex for $299 for band practice when I travel. Use tube amps when practice is at my place or future live gigs. Played my 100w EVH 5150 III head along with the other guitarist's mesa dual rectum 1/2 stacks=Glorious
Tell me more about your friends dual rectum
I don't know if they are dying (I use both, but I am one of those older players, on the way out) but I love your sense of humor - I was cracking up for half the video.
Mark my words the modeling amps will be a shortlived hype. Tube amps will come back full force.
This may sound crazy, but I swear I play better through tube amps than anything digital. I am more creative and expressive; it's like my guitar comes to life. I think younger guitar players who don't play tube amps may be missing out on this feeling.
Very different play feeling and sound creation approach between tube amps and modelers. Nowadays (expensive) digital modeling units with IR sound pretty good, especially for recording. But if you are a player that use pick or fingers dynamics, on guitar volume and tone controls, and like to use pedals of any sort, especially fuzz, od, dist, and vintage units then good luck. The way one can use a tube screamer to tighten up the amp, or a MXR Distortion + to brighten up and add a tad of "fizz" to a dark tube amp doesn't really work with any digital unit. Besides miking up a cabinet, using analog preamp, compression, and eq, and maybe an analog console before to hit the record button makes a huge difference. I keep on using and buying tube amps, along with the latest technology gizmos if it helps my creation process.
Great video Kyle, I’ve always played tube amps,And always had and still have to many Heads and Cabs, I’m fortunate to live out In the country so being able to crank my amps and not disturbing anyone,But I’m finally gonna bite the bullet and get into modelers I think they do have there place.
Tube amps will never die because all the digital modelers need them for source material. They need the original source to “model”. I’ll always keep and have my tube amps. They are cool. They are nostalgic. They are iconic. They may not be as prevalent, but they won’t ever go away entirely.
Sadly I just don’t have enough room in my studio for a tube amp. I prefer recording with modelers, don’t have to spend a shit load on amp mics
I don't know man I find I wouldn't trust the PA or rando sound person at the small bars I play at to get a sound I'd be confident with. Still need an amp, or use a modeler through a PA or FRFR but at that point you might as well bring an amp & cab anyway. I think you need to be playing at a large enough size venue that has a good sound system w/ good monitoring, or have an in-ear system to be able to rely on just a modeler.
I have my dream amps, Fender Twin and Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier Roadster. They will never die.
Could i survive with digital modelling only? Yes. But no point in skipping those old amps.
Kyle, I laughed my ass off at the opening to this video 🤣🤣 Awesome video man.
Tube amps are dying, but my solid state Peavey’s are going strong! But in all honesty, I’m just keeping a couple tube amps around for creating captures 🤷♂️
I still love my tube amps. Like you said, nothing matches the feel and response. Hell, I'm still trying to decide if a great sounding 50 watt tube amp measures up to the feel of a 100w that doesn't sound as good. But I totally get the allure of modelers. Convenience and consistency are things I should place more value in than I do. lol
I think another big contributor to tube amps dying are modern day solid state amps. Right now my current rig has a Pod Go going into a Laney Ironheart Foundry pedal amp and I absolutely love it. I think one thing that could potentially save tube amps is if they figure out a way to make a 100w amp into the size of a lunchbox amp.
I've been running modelers as backups since the Sansamp GT2 (waaay before the Line 6 POD came around) and currently have a Boss IR-2 as a backup, but my fleet of Mesa Mark series are always going to be the go-to (and for the record I've never actually had to use my backups LOL). Not to mention my Mark 5s have both an IR line out as well as headphone outputs. Maybe just buy better tube amps? I'll also say that none of the complex modelers are very good from a user interface perspective. NOTHING beats knobs for working quickly which is why the professionals will always have a place for analog gear. I think the inexpensive modelers are a great way for novices to find what they like before going out and buying the real thing, and there is great economy in the modelers for modern over-produced pop "live" shows, but tube amps are not going anywhere anytime soon. Someone will be chugging on my MkIV long after I'm dead.
Nah. I check on the prices for Fireball 100s all the time. I'm trying to get in it for less than 2 since I blew up my 6505+112
Jokes aside. I feel like tube amps are gonna become an “enthusiast” thing. We are always gonna have them because pro musicians love them for the feel. As a member of the gaming community I see this with retro games. Everyone has moved to emulators to play Super Mario Bros or Pac Man because of price and space constraints. So there’s a divide there too with people that like the real hardware and people that like to play them on their PC emulated, it’s modeling for Nintendo’s basically
The feel, exactly. It's like giving the perfect pen to a writer, or some blunt pen, that can do the job, but the feel is kinda off.
I feel they aren't dying, but definitely declining in popularity for touring rigs. I myself, while I do mostly play thru Tonehub n plugins on my pc when in my room, I also got a 5150 combo in the livingroom to riff out n push some air. If I were to join a band again n such, I'd definitely invest in a kemper or some other modeler, you just can't beat them for portability and reliability. I also love building diy pedals, shits so fun. Doom and stoner bands alone will never let tube amps die out completely lol One big thing I love about plugins and amp sims is using them to try out different amps, and get a feel for them before I look to buy. Precisely that has me really wanting a DIezel VH2 or 4 and a Sunn Beta Lead for doomy stuff lol
Fashions rotate. I imagine tube amps will lie low for 7 years or so as we make huge gains in the modeller space, but they'll become mythic and fondly remembered, and then some ambitious company will bring a tube amp back to life that does something very interesting and suddenly they'll be back in the fold again as these lustrous items. That's what I think but I'm probably wrong
It definitely is becoming more of an enthusiast/tone snob thing. In a major band with my own sound tech, it might be ok but I still hear and feel the difference of an amp. The average person going to a concert doesn’t really care about it though, they aren’t clamoring to find out what gear the band had at a show.
I use my hx stomps for effects, I’ve never used em for front of house cases, as I don’t like relying on monitors to hear myself. Like I said, could change as the band travels more.
One plus you didn’t mention is they are lowering the price of admission for getting into guitars, which is a good thing for the guitar industry, and as long as amps still have a lil edge in feel over modeling, there will always be a market to convert a basic guitar guy into a tone snob.
We will keep fighting the good fight! I just bought a Mesa Mark V to match my EVH 5153, and omg I love standing in front of both of em, cranking the knob and absolutely screaming my notes out. It’s therapy.
You can’t assume every venue will have a PA that can accommodate your modeler going direct. I know that sounds weird as it should be a simple process - plugging in a mic cable - but trust me, you just can’t make that assumption. So regardless of your amp being tube or a modeler, you’ll need a cabinet of some sort, at least as a backup plan. You need to be completely self sufficient.
I was a die hard tube amp player, I had way too much money in amps, but I loved them. Around 2019 we moved to in ear monitors and that was a game changer for the band, and my vocals. But I no longer heard my amps, just as they are mic'd. Trying to mic them up on stage every weekend, trying different mics was too much. Now a bring a QC that has a perfect tone and plug and go.
boutique amps are too expensive
i use an Orange TH30 into a 1x12 with a vintage 30
but i will be getting a boss ir-2 that I keep as a backup
I agree, you don't need an amp, and modelers are incredible nowadays, but I much prefer my tube amps and always will! I also remember back in the 2010s when guitar center would NO LONGER even take a Dual Rec for trade-in because they weren't selling. Something I will forever regret is trading in my Dual Rec Rev F back in 2008 when I got out of the Marine Corps during the recession and got $400 for it. This is why I simply cannot and will not pay 10x that much for a Rev F nowadays.
I'm 25, one of the younger players and will always love a good tube amp.
I follow all the new gear releases, but can't afford them. But to be honest, I don't need another amp, since I already have my dream amp. My Mark V:25 can handle everything I need and gives me a smile on my face.
Still it would be sick to have some more.
I study Music and most of the other guitarists play modelers and I'll get myself a QC when I'm able to afford one. For travelling, shows and consistency it’s just more confinient.
On the other hand I know many young musicians in my old local music scene who played (and probably still play) real amps. Guess it depends on the scene.
I think there will be a place for sub 1k amps for many years, since it is the best way to hold up against a drummer in a rehearsal room. But also I think the overall sales will go down.