4x12 Guitar Cabs are DEAD
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
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Nothing will replace a real amp pushing a 4x12, ever, evurrrrrr.
yes
Same is true for a rotating speaker cabinet, leslie sims will never quite get there
Pushing air can not be simulated
I mean, Quad Cortex into one of those Seymour Duncan Power Stages into a 4x12 kinda nails it if you're using captures.
@@lzcpg I use tonex with powerstage 700 and I have loads of fun connected to a guitar cab.
I'm 54 and when we did outdoor gigs when I was a teenager I used a full stack Marshall in the 80s. That's rock and roll.
amen! a stack is where it's at!
We used full stacks at small pub gigs and for rehearsal 😂
The 4x12 is rock and roll. The 4x12 is metal.
gotta have a stack!
I have two 4x12's with the same speaker config. One is at my house, the other is at my drummer's house. That's how I roll.
stack'm! nothing like playing a stack!
The people who think 412’s are dead are the bedroom/home “studio” one man shows. Which can be an awesome thing - however they’re not out there playing live gigs in small and medium size venues. Anyone who plays live would know you can’t physically play a show in most venues without a speaker cab. At least a 212…. But 412 is more fun lol
Even as a bedroom player mainly now, can confirm 4x12s are still more fun
I'm a bedroom player with a stack! lol, wish I could play shows but I'm a goat farmer, hard to tour
Gig every week. Need a cab in majority of crap venues and lot of my friends still use 4x12’s.
PA’s are not always good in venues. I’m using 1 or 2 2x12’s and will do until I drop dead. I use IEM’s but still need some stage volume for front of stage peeps.
2x12 is where it's at for us regular touring and gigging non-rockstar dudes, two 4x12 one for each player is just too expensive to transport most of the time cause it takes so much space you can't always fit the rest of the gear in the van let alone when you use your personal cars for one off shows, and a 2x12 can sound fantastic too unlike a 1x12. That's what we've done for years now in all the bands I play in and it's the best of both worlds especially when you gig everywhere from a dive bar in front of 30 dudes to a mainstage in a festival in front of 4000
@@the_hippykiller22 Yep. I have one oversized 2x12 from Zilla that made my 4x12 redundant.
I didn't understand why I needed a 4x12 cab until I tried one. I use an old Marshall cab with 2 Greenbacks on top and 2 V30's on the bottom - absolute magic!
hell yeah! get a second with different speakers and stack'm! you'll cream your pants!
I hear great things about this combination in particular❤
1×12 cabs being a no go for metal and hardcore just sounds like something that should be easy to grasp on an intuitive level.
I play deathmetal and I use a 4x12 cab. Every single deathmetal show I have been to from the 80's until now, the bands use 4x12 cabs. Suffocation has more than one 4x12 cab on each side, when they play shows, but they only actually use one (per side), the other one is real and is there for backup.
nothing like a stack!
The 4x12 cabinet is responsible for the most crushingly brutal tones I’ve ever heard.
you mean a stack! 8 X 12's!
I want to make 2024 the year that I only see bands that play amps/cabs on stage.
I skew more toward southern/sludgy stuff and i think my favorite tone is a 112 combo on top of a closed 112 cab. Cab gives tightness and combo fills more space. I also have my 112 cabs loaded with an Eminence Tonker (150 watt) and Eminence Red White and Blues (120 watt) so they can handle any head I'd buy. 412s sound fuckin sick for big heavies though
Both of my bands switched from 412s to 212 and have been happy with it. We also switched from a 410 and a 15 bass cabs to a single 410 neo cab. Overall it still works great and gives us much more room in the van. I tried a 112 and it didn't move enough air. My 412s stay at home and I dont miss it. I do believe a 212 is about as little as you can go and am all about having cabs on stage but 212, 412, tube ,solid state, modeler, whatever, its all about whatever works.
That's what we've done in both bands I play in for years and years now. From dive bars to festivals it works wonders, the 2x12 made the 3 of us happy dudes and we only use a 4x12 when recording of when the backline is shared or lent
My Mesa 4x12 OS cab arrived yesterday, and I have an Omega 4x12 coming soon. They are very much alive and well.
Yeah 100%. My band tried to go fully direct but after a couple of shows where the PA just didn’t have the power and headroom to deal with it, we all got portable power amps to go with it. Now we typically run straight in to whatever 4x12 cab is provided by the backline, but have the option to go direct if the sound engineer desires.
Totally agree. Like Yngwie Malmsteen says: MORE IS MORE! 😁 I love it to rip down the walls...
But I'm getting older and I don't like to carry heavy equipment anymore. Now I use an Amp1 on my pedal board and a Fatcab from Bluguitar...but I will buy me a 2x12 Radical from Barefaced Audio with a G12M-65 Creamback and a G12 Neo Creamback. I love the sounds of this combination. I play a ml1 modern baritone from Chapman, but I play everything with it. Also the cabinets from Barefaced Audio are lightweight and they are very, very loud. If this is not enough, there is also an option to try the Celestion Neo 250 Copperback with the BN12-300S in a 2x12 cabinet... I just love it when the floor vibrates and the sound eleminate any doubt. But there are different ways to get the sounds you like. The most important thing is, you have to be happy about your decisions. 🔥🤘
As someone also from the punk and hardcore scene I can confirm everything that was said including terrible PA systems most use 4x12. Though I have seen a number of punk bands in smaller bars using combos . In my band me and the other guitarist use 2x12 for small to medium shows but we still got 4x 12 for the big ones
Hi, Kyle. It is my opinion that the 4x12 is the best thing to happen to guitar and heavy music. It will never go away, and I won’t allow it to go away.
I think I have like ten 4x12s.
5 oranges (1 is loaded with a quad of Marshall v30MF)
3 MF280s
2 1960BVs
What is your thought on this:
My only use for a 2x12 is for when I’m playing a lunch box head. For a while I played my 15 watt/1 watt heads out of v30 loaded 4x12s. However, when I A/B this set up with a 212 of the same brand with 2 v30s I developed an appreciation for the lower wattage head moving 2 speakers more.
I think about it as dividing the wattage of the head by the number of speakers in the cab.
Everytime I plug back into the 412 with a 15 watt head, it sounds great, but the speakers are driven less because each speaker is getting less watts through them compared to a 212.
Perhaps a 15 watt head would push a 412 really well if I put low wattage speakers in it (greenbacks).
That being said. I never use a 15 watt head live. This is just for home use.
Cheers, doggie!
Kyle, you do great work. I'm so happy to see you finally did the line 6 cab. That was my fav cab ever. I used to run my hd147 through it
Not just a money issue, but my wife got me the $230 Harley Benton 2x12 with V30s. Plus with a small sedan, it's the only practical option. I plug straight into my Boss M80 which goes into a Hotone 100 watt power amp, then into the Harley Benton cab. I'm probably the only one in Houston not using a 4x12 😂.
One of the reasons I bought my torpedo x was just so I could run my 100w laney cranked through my 4x12 while maintaining a respectable volume just because it feels more organic, not just because of the tone, but the experience.
For me it’s either 412 or 112 open back. 412is my preferred way to go, a decent amp will always sounds and fell as good as it can moving more air. If I’m pressured for space a 112open back or combo with a decent speaker.
Favorite amp right now is a tiny jet city picovalve 5 watt amp boosted with a Wampler triumph into a Lee Jackson 412
With uk V30s.
ADA made a shit ton of 2x12s while the MP-1 was a thing. They dominated metal for a while and their ads were ubiquitous.
I had two of them!
I generally use a 2x12 cabinet (handles 200 watts haha), but it's hard to beat a 4x12 for outdoor gigs. However, another option is 2 2x12 cabinets. That way you can have 4 when you need them and for the small clubs, you can just bring 2...
a 4x12 is really a different animal even at low-ish volumes. Its not just the volume, its also about the feel and the spread of sound over a bigger area.
I mean manufacturers are still making 4x12 cabs and 8x10 bass cabs so clearly there’s still plenty of demand. For my guitar rig I use 2 2x12 Mesa cabs. A modular 4x12 so to speak
nothing like a stack!
Sadly I've had to move away from a 4x12 to a 2x12 for space and practically reasons but I'll refuse to ever go smaller still
What differences do you notice?
2x12 is the sweet spot, a 1x12 is a no go for metal
Damn if I could, I’d run 6x12s
8 by 12s would be even better .
First off, I literally just found out Celestion just reissued the old G12-T652 speaker that Eric Clapton used in the bluesbreakers, the "Greyback".
But man, 4x12s are definitely not dead. And actually, they'd be seeing a major renaissance if people realized that neodymium speakers exist (and if speaker companies made more effort to release Neo versions of well-loved favorites). But heck, they don't even have to be neodymium, they can just be small magnet speakers, like the G12L or Jensen Mod 12-35. Those are 3-4lb speakers that sound damn good with modern high gain amps. There is no reason that people should be complaining about weight in this day and age. My Mesa Traditional has shaved off a good 40lbs or so because the speakers I use in them (Jensens) are small magnets...no loss of low end or articulation, etc.
I retain my opinion that most guitar players are stupid, gullible, hive-minded idiots who don't inform themselves well enough on what's out there ad miss out on good shit for no reason.
so with u on that last statement lmfao
I live in an apartment. I can't play very loud most of the time. Yet, I do have a 2x12 and a 4x12.
I also have a 6505+ 112 Combo.
Even at low volume, I like the 2x12 and 4x12 more. By quite a lot.
I'm just now considering to buy a 2x12 100W combo with the idea that one day I may also add an extra 2x12 cabinet to it effectively having 4x12 in a way, but before that could happen I will need a power attenuator to be able to use it at home as is lol
On the same track as Kyle, I play in 3 hardcore bands and can attest every show is usually two 4x12s and a bass cab of some kind (8x10/2x15/4x10). That's always been the standard for playing basements, halls, diy venues, etc. Though, I still use a 4x12 when we play a spot that is mic'd up as well. I love that bands are sharing a backline these days too. In the 90s four bands would all lug in the same marshall/ampeg cabs and swap them out between bands. These days it seems like bands communicate and just share a backline for the whole show.
Well, I am a classic rocker, not a metalhead, I have 4 amps - 3 british sound and one "digital".
I have an Orange Rockerverb 50 MKIII head with Orange PPC412 with original speakers, but on the other two tube amps I swapped the speakers to my favorite speaker, but kept the original ones IF I need to sell them, so Marshall 50W combo 212 with Celestion Creamback 75's instead of original Celestion V30 and Celestion Heritage, Vox AC15 head with 112 cab loaded with Celestion Creamback 75 instead of Celestion Greenback, and Mooer Micro Preamp Live with Zoom MS-50G in the loop and a pedal tuner, all on one small pedalboard that goes into a 1200W active FRFR DSP 112 monitor/speaker. I play live gigs for 30 people, and I play live gigs for 10 000 people, as I am a session guitarist, and depending on the venue, I will bring my amp of choice. Sure, 50W Orange into a 412 is a dream come true, but I can't rip it off in a small pub. Why I changed speakers? I did not change the speakers for "better sound", or bought a trashy dirt cheap box and "upgraded it", I changed them because I love the sound of them. I love Celestion Creamback 75! Most people prefer the regular 65, hell, I had even a Neo Creamback 65, but on 75's there is a bottom end that is growling and not flobby, it has more power and speaker efficiency (100 dB supposed to 97 dB on 65's), so I get the best in everything - power, loudness, headroom. Are 412's dying? Maybe, or maybe there are no spaces to use them, I know I don't. My Orange head and cab is in my storage space, while my Marshall combo and Vox head and 112 box is in my apartment, along with my 112 powered FRFR speaker.
The thing is, most people just want to validate their own opinion. The truth is, everyone's wants and needs are different and we live in a great time where you can use a full stack, a single 412, 212s, stereo rigs, or digital solutions without cabinets.
Cabinets are unrealistic for me to use at home, but it doesn't prevent me from owning 412s. But these are mostly for rehearsal or studio recording. I am picking up a 212 specifically for the space issue and when jamming elsewhere without a PA. In that regard, a 212 makes sense because I don't have room in my car for a 412 and all the other gear I need to take.
Then, when playing live, I have been satisfied with my Kemper and stage monitors or in-ears when possible. This significantly cuts down how much gear I need to take when playing gigs. Where I am at, most venues have good PA systems and it is unrealistic to travel with cabinets in my situation.
There is a solution for everyone's situation. That's what is so cool about the modern gear industry. There isn't a single correct solution, only the correct solution for each individual.
While they are admittedly not the most practical for every situation, they will always be more fun than playing in the box. I’ll always have a 4x12 or two laying around, even if it’s just for my own enjoyment 🤘
Zero stage volume bands sound so damn weak live at smaller/medium venues. It ends up just being snare and cymbals to the front/side rows. Being a guitarist myself and playing tons of shows with 4x12’s, I need that FEEL of the cabinet to really enjoy playing/watching the performance!!
That's why the 2x12 is the sweet spot
I have a friend in a local Hard Rock/Metal band ... he plays through a full stack and my neighbors band plays through hybrid of half stacks and front of house. Most of the other shows I've been to in Detroit area have had at least one full stack.
I got one of the new 6505 II cabs because of your vid on it, and it absolutely KILLS.
Matt Pike from Sleep and High on Fire he is the only one that I know of that has a wall of amps with no dummy cabs. I have seen him use upwards of 6 full stacks.
Such a rockstar haha I wish I had the resources
@@thatguyinaband6341 Yeah must be nice to have access from any amp company for them to send you what you want at the drop of a phone call.
I was once in a band where the other guitarist insisted on using his 1x12 combo (the silver and black version of a Fender Tweed)... It was a metalcore band... I'd play with a 2x12 or a 4x12 depending on whether I knew the venue's sound system's quality and if it was good, but you couldn't hear the other guitarist. Sound guys would ask him to turn his volume down too, which he thought was because he was too loud and not really understanding that he could be clipping the mic while being pretty quiet on stage. And volume aside, there's a tone that comes with these larger cabs that has become a real staple of heavier music.
The last show I went to Warrant / Winger. All had Marshall Half Stacks. Every player had their own.
Just last year, Four Year Strong (Dan and Alan) were using Quad Cortex(es) BUT had Seymour Duncan Power Stages, still with a 4x12 to move some air!
This is totally my experience too -around the Denver region. As much as I’d like to ditch the trips up and down rickety stairs in crappy clubs with heavy gear, the people that come to hardcore/noise/punk/doom type shows want to be blasted with focused beams from guitar and bass speakers, if for no other reason than to feel alive for a few minutes.
Happy Cabs ported cabs. Their 1x12 is as tall as a 4x12. Air from speaker. Air from port. I have two of those I use at our rehearsal space that are loaded with a 200w EVM12 (playing thru a Mesa Boogie Quad preamp and Strategy 400 power amp). I also have two 2x10 cabinets from them that I use for local shows. I let close friends borrow either pair for local shows they organize. And get many compliments considering they’re physically smaller but still wall-shakingly loud.
Hey there from southern Germany. It is little bit different round here. The venues, even youth centers, have a decent PA (most of the time). The trend to iem is there. Most bands go digital without cabs ob stage. Im using iem too, but still run a 2x12 or 4x12 with my powered Kemper, just for the feel and the first row. It makes me sad when I see no cabs on stage
I'm friends with Lee from Exodus. Gary uses a Marshall Jubilee. Lee uses a Quad Cortex with a Poweramp. Both run real cabs
i’ve seen so many videos about amps and cabs are DYING. this is the first time i’ve actually seen someone acknowledge how expensive it is go noiseless
It's like people forgot punk and metal are supposed to be LOUD and in your face. So many people saying all you need is a 20 watt lunch box head and 2x12 or that the sound guy will force you to turn down. Nothing will beat a 100w tube head on a full stack for me.
I definitely think it has more to do with your level of musicianship and wallet. 20 yr vet, played huge out door stages, HOB, and coffee shops. I Have cabs for the occasion but a 14yr old just wants to rock! Loud amps in your face!!
at least in my local metal core scene folks have been downsizing constantly. 2x12, 3x12, direct, sometimes direct with a powered speaker on the stage. our backs are destroyed. we can't carry that stuff around anymore.
Yeah, Guitar Center does have a good amount of used 4x12s for sale, but that's a good thing for those of us who get to buy them cheap and have them shipped for around $37.
exactly
Maybe I'll get better deals for these unwanted 4x12 cabs 👍
I've got 2 412s I use at home and will likely never part with em. For low volumes, having 412s really helps fill out the low end.
If I was to start gigging again, I may consider using a 212 instead at venues that have proper PA support. But if you're not getting miced up, a 412 is a necessity to me.
I have two full stacks on either side of my desk. I live in an apartment. Absolutely unnecessary. A mesa triple and a jsx 120. I barely power them up, so they are mostly for show. But I love looking at them and I love playing them when the opportunities come up to do so. Completely different experience than playing through my computer.
Mean Pete used a cab in Ether Coven that was three 12s and a 15. You gotta get your hands on one of those cabs man. Paul and Vaos amplification is the brand.
I use one in one of my bands. I can’t describe how good they sound. Insane! Josh Scoggin used them in 68 and the guy from Dillinger used them for a while.
In an audio engineer perspective, I love the sound of a 4x12, especially on rhythm guitars for rock and metal. Maybe leads, I would go for a 2x12 or even 1x12. It depends what I'm feeling. I still see bands in the genre I play, I still see people use 4x12 live or opt for amp modelers like a Kemper or Axe FX. Maybe nowadays, it's more logical to use a 2x12 live or even go digital, especially if you're constantly touring. You don't have to break your back, trying to lift a 4x12 or having someone to lift it with you. Digital, you just have to hook up via XLR and have power and you're good unless you gotta run MIDI too.
I would like this video but right now it's 311. Best thing about 2 x 12 is you can mix and match speakers and still get the same effect!
I have a 2x12 here at home, but everytime I plug into a well broken-in 4x12 it makes me think "Goddamn I should upgrade"
I am of similar age like you are and I also attend concerts for nearly 20 years (rather like 18 years, however.). I am 9 minutes into the video, pausing to comment, so I might talk points you already covered later.
I used to be a whole-hearted defender of the 4x12 cab, or even the fullstack. My thrash metal band Tempest used to have a Marshall fullstack on one side, and a Mesa Boogie Fullstack one the other side.
While it looked AMAZING and was oozing rock & roll, things suffered greatly from it - the gas bill for the cars, transportation measures (needed to drive with multiple cars with shit piled all over the place), and actually the sound was not that great. We gradually went away from these solutions to having both guitar players small pedal-board setups.
One of us is using a Mooer 005 micro preamp, one using the AMT P-LEAD pedal. We then split the signal for both running into an IR loader and then into the IEM mixer, and one output going to a 100W power amp pedal. Each board then goes to a Harley Benton Vertical 2x12 with V30s.
This setup sounds amazing, it's compatible with most smaller venues, everything bigger has a decent enough PA to properly mic up the cabs, or actually grab an IR-loaded out from our IEM mixer.
This allows for a silent stage, we can hear our IEM mixes really good and perform actually better. Visitors come after the gig to us and compliment our great guitar sound and the tightness which we play at. In theory, this setup even allows us to record our entire show/rehearsal for demo takes etc.
This setup also allowed us to carry the entire backline, meaning full guitar, bass and Drumkit rig (except for PA for vocals) on a mini-Europe Tour in a Ford 9-Seat transporter, for exactly such "small venue" shows. It's a win on all fronts, even though it costed around 2000+€ to get all the equipment needed for the IEM downscale solution, and even more if you'd start at scratch building a pedal-board based mini-fly-rig.
To me, the 4x12 is "dead" in the sense, that I am not reliant on it anymore, and it's absolutely freeing. That also said, for a local show like 15 minutes away from rehearsal room in a 200 people+ venue, when we do like our big show as promoters once in a year, I will NEVER be shy of bringing on 2 Marshall 1960AVs on stage - this is a necessary eye-candy to bring on the rock&roll, and it does, on it's own, sound better than the HB Vertical 2x12s. However, in a mix, the 2x12s have strong cut-through-the-mix qualities which rival the 1960AV.
Man, I love gear. 😀I guess that statement does all the statements above justice.
Jesus man. Right after the 9 minute mark you are picking up basically all which I have commented above. But maybe my comment might still be a help for people tinkering with the idea of downsizing their rigs. 🙂
The last show I‘ve been to was Suffocation. They had two Mesa 4x12 and an Ampeg 8x10. A couple of the support bands were running modeling, but still had power amps running to the cabinets.
I love the 2x12 cab for just going n having a jam session with friends that play music but my Marshall JCM 800 w/my full 4x12 stack definitely delivers when playing a gig. There not dead !
I was able to pick up a peavey valve king 4x12 for $150. Sure the stock speakers were kinda dookie but the cab is made of Baltic birch and is very solid.
Great points.
And also : shared backline (esp. in hardcore shows), where all bands use the same 412 cabs on stage
I toured with a 2x12 for a couple of years. Worst time of my life. 💩
The business is loaded with tons of great alternatives that cabs have been not as popular but don't see them going away!
2 x 12s need to be ported to have the same bass response as a well-built 4 x 12, it’s just a nerf if anything but doable if done right
I love full stacks, but 212’s are much easier to carry, take up less room in the truck. You can have 2-212’s, one on each side of the stage ect…
Not really, my Mesa 2x12 is 60 pounds of carrying with my back, my mesa 4x12 is 98 pounds on wheels.
@@sqlb3rn you still have to put the 4 x 12 into your vehicle unless you’re rolling in and out of the trailer also you could get wheels for your 2 x 12
@@ScottFuckinRitchie it's pretty equal until I have to deal with stairs, then the 2x12 wins
@@sqlb3rn that’s why I built my first 212. My basement stairs were all fucked up-was an old storm seller entrance. Lugging my 1960 cab up was a real bitch lol.
I listen to hard rock and metal and guitarist like Mark Tremonti has said he will never go digital and will always have an amp push 2 2x12 cabs.
I came back to 4x12 after 2-3 years of using 2x12 cabs and the low-end of the 4x12 is just better.
The "huuummmmmpffff" is wayyy more satisfying then the 2x12.
I’m late to the party, though I’d like to add that I use 40 4x2’s. Weight is no issue, and I can do surround sound with all those lil cabs😉 Perfect for practice also, just use one cab! 😂
I wish that there were more 8X12 cabinets on the market. I have a bunch of mankey old 8 Ohm speakers that I am putting into one so that they can run at 16 Ohms and handle a moderate amount of power, but it seems like they are pretty scarce. I guess that weight is an issue for some people, so I can wire up a few 32 Ohm cabs. Whatever.
I would love to get one of those Peavey Invective 2x12 cabs for around the house, but I will never part with my Mesa 4x12 cab.
Here I am looking to buy a pair of 4x12’s.
Do it!
DO IT!!
Make.
Your dreams.
Come true :)
Dude. Exodus, Shovel Headed Kill Machine guitar tone is sick AF.
I liked the tone for atrocity exhibition as well
That video is timing was perfect for me is I just bought a cheap cab for 75 bucks and was going to replace the speakers overtime I thought it was the cheaper way to go
I am Team Master Race 2x12 for convenience.
For smaller venues a 212 is plenty IMO. That said, a 412 is BDE
I'm pretty sure Angus Youngs big Ole 10 full stacks were real..I seen him have one side of stage have half Mesa Boogie and the other half Marshall...but like minimum 8 stacks
I didn't see t he other video, but in general - I see the market going towards "lighter" equipment and more 2x12's but having 2 sets of 2x12's to mix speakers - I mean with some of the latest tech you can go straight into a powered PA speaker with killer sound, but year not too many ppl using them.
I thinks there's always going to be a place for a 4x12 - I've had and used a 4x12 since 2008 and I'm almost exclusivly playing in my home studio - I mix it with a second 2x12, but I'm actually planning to swap it out and run TWO 2x12's instead just becuase I don't need 6 speakers and I can get a much more well rounded sound with just the 4...
I think the trend - generally for consmer stuff is smaller and lighter - maybe not so much for professinals or touring bands - other than going lighter if possible - I'd go as far as saying the genre doesn't really matter either you need what you need and if there isn't a good PA system then you've got to have some amp power just to keep up with the drums
I know that Devin Townsend after years put a 4x12 back on stage, so no, cabs give moving air on stage. Now, does that need to be fed into the board that way? No
i feel like people who dont see 412s or even cabs being used in general must rarely play or go to local shows, especially local metal shows are filled with big cabs
We have 2 local live locations with audience capacity of 100 - 300 people. Both have proper PA systems. Almost every band I saw there which went direct to PA without backline speakers had poor sound! Every band using cabs on stage had a good sound! 🤷🏻♂️
I love 4x12 cab and have 2. Unfortunately i have to say in my area there is tons of 4x12 cabs on the market, and are just not selling. Like new Marshall 1960 going for $400 and not selling
In the sense of death metal, a 2x12 just isn't going to work unless you're in a smaller DIY type of place. I played a 2x12 5150 at a handful of shows and it just does not project the sound well enough. Yes it gets loud, but that's just making certain frequencies become that much more piercing. This effect is amplified (lol) when you use an under-powered amp like a 20w lunchbox. They get loud, but it does not sound nearly as good as a 50-120w amp.
You could make some arguments about 2x12 vs 4v12 vs full stack against like a 250/800/1200+ cap venue, but the 4x12 reigns supreme, especially if it's a slant cab. Creating your own mix on stage is crucial, and most people don't have in-ear monitors. Having less speakers then depending on a stage monitor pointed up at the ceiling is not the best idea. You aren't entirely sure what the PA is like out in the crowd either, which is typically going to pass by the whole front row section. That's why stage sound is so damn important to be loud enough you still hear the drums, you fill in the sound spectrum near the stage, and you're not so loud that the sound guy has nothing to work with.
As you said, the only real place for 2x12's is within music that is simply not as loud/aggressive paired with a good PA system. I'm sure some audio engineer can explain this better than me, but you're better off with more speakers at a lower volume to move more air than less speakers at a higher volume trying to accommodate the open space in the sound spectrum.
Agree on the importance of stage sound, disagree on 2x12 not being enough for metal. I've played in thrash and groove bands for years using a 2x12 and so do the other 2 dudes and it works great if you have the right cab. Actually last friday the guy from another band lent me his 4x12 recto and the sound was more piercing and shrieky in some frequencies than with my 2x12 lonestar, I had to dial back some stuff on the amp (the 4x12 recto still reigns supreme don't get me wrong). My head is a 5150 50w 6l6 but I've never tried the cab, maybe try other 2x12s? Also agree on lunchboxes, you want at the very minimum 30w and even then the 50w is again the perfect sweet spot for me (the 50w 6l6 has no right to be as good as it is, I actually prefer it to the 100w)
I love running a full stack instead of just a half. Why? Not because its loud af i actually like it at lower volume because it doesn’t push the speakers so hard and it sounds full as hell.
I use 5 4x12 but the one i use at rehearsal and gigs is my mf400a x2v30 and x2k100
Kyle, you can’t fix stupid. But a valid effort in trying. The more 4x12 cabs, the better.
4x12 will always be king for me, 2 halfstacks thank you, But, a combo that fits on the backseat of a car is so much easier to transport, though not very Metal.
The bottom end, the coupling to the floor, the air being moved will always be no 1 of the 4x12".
I see 4x12s everywhere! I'm going to a wide variety of small to medium shows on a regular basis.....also very true about PA systems....all the bands I know and follow also bring their own PA systems unless it's a larger venue obviously.
I saw comeback kid recently and they had some sick Revv 6x12 cabs. Putting all of us to shame lol
Local pawn...shop-op-op had a 2000s Carvin for 139 with G12T75s, and still has a 90s Crate Blue Doodoo 1x12 with UK V30 for $300. Easy math.
I own a Thiele, I know the joys of a small cab...but I like being able to have my tone all over the room, not change because I moved a step off of the beam.
I've been playing metal since the mid 80's. I have played with and known hundreds of musicians. The 4x12 cab has been and will continue to be the standard for music that you want to feel as well as hear. That's the difference. Players that value feeling their music as a physical presence will always prefer 4x12 cabs.
I’ve got a 2x12 that i gig with, very much trying to upgrade to a 4x12. More louderer is more betterer. Plus it looks cool lol
You’re onto it Kyle. I don’t find anything you said offensive. Straight facts. Local bands still widely use 4x12s. Touring bands in today’s era are leaving the 4x12 at home for logistical reasons.
If you’re using in ear monitors you won’t hear the 4x12 anyway. 1x12s are lame.
I love my 4x12s. I don’t use them to record. But when it comes to rehearsals that’s what they are there for. 🤷♂️
Though the real world use case for a real 4x12 is arguably becoming less. It’s still the sound everyone is chasing or emulating digitally.
Good on you mate 🤘
Played nothing but Death Metal on a 1x12 solid state old school Ampeg SS70 for the past 8 years or so up until maybe 2 or 3 years ago went with a Fractal FM3 and a 2x12 Vader Cab. 4x12's are awesome but a hassle to move around which is why I never got one. Any one who says you can't play Metal on a 1x12 cab... fight me! lol
I used a 412 in the same kind of shitty venues you mention for years. I switched to an over sized 212 mainly for practical reasons as it’s much easier to live with than a 412 and it’s not too far behind in terms of sound & experience. I also play more small pubs now where a 412 would look pretty stupid to be honest. But you’re right that the majority of small, punk, metal , hardcore bands etc are still using cheap 412s live, so it’s definitely not dead!
I don’t think I’d ever go full digital though. Not my thing at all. I can’t perform live with the same energy if I’m basically using headphones. I need the roar behind me!
I use a 2x12 cab when I'm playing by myself, when I'm playing live with a band I'm using my 4x12 cab. hallelujah
No shot. As long as there is people willing to buy something they won't stop making it. There is still a big market for tube amps and cabinets. I Had to wait a year to get my EVH Stealth and EVH 4 X 12 here in Canada because they would sell out as soon as there was any stock here. Nothing neats the thump of air being pushed through four 12 inch speakers in a well built wood cabinet.
I hate watching a band with a loud drummer and modeller only guitarists going to front of house. Even with a 500 people capacity venue and great PA system, you can hear real drums comming from stage and processed guitar from PA. I just miss the unmiked sound of real speaker cabs from stage.
Well, sort of dead. Simply because it’s a pain to drag to a gig and is a bit much for home practice. I’d love to use one, just not practical. Interesting idea though, a friend would use a double stack for stage use, but only had a single speaker. Big cabs for show, single speakers to mic up. However, the best sound I was ever complimented on was a 20w Peavey Valveking into a Marshall 1960 4x12 cab. Guess I don’t have much of a point other than I want a good sound that’s as portable as possible.
4x12 and 2x12 will NEVER die. Sure the 2x12 is easier to move, ie less weight. That's where you can get a bandmate to help you load in/out of the venue with your 4x12 cab is a perfectly acceptable practice!
Slap some casters on your 4x12 if you have back problems. Have your bandmates help if that’s insufficient.
@@michaelrains64295 got some casters and an electric hand truck to move my cabs. It's transporting smarter not harder. :-)