That scene where Ketheric casually gets impaled, gets back up, and tells them "Try Again" is the best scene for an antagonist I've witnessed in the last couple years ngl
I thought the performance was subpar at best. That's not JK's fault; we know how good he is as JJJ on Spider-Man. It's those behind the character that made him dull.
part of what makes Ketheric such a good villain is the fact that you can empathize with him - he's a man destroyed by grief having lost his wife and his daughter desperate to do anything to bring them back.
I’m surprised you didn’t talk about how if you learn about his wife before confronting him, you can try and convince him not to fight because this isn’t what she would’ve wanted. He turns you down because it’s too late to redeem himself, but he goes straight into giving himself to Myrkl instead of fighting you himself first. I feel like this shows that there’s still at least some part of him that knows what he’s doing is wrong, but he’s gone too far already to stop
Even if he did give up, it's irrelevant. Death means Myrkul's aspect will appear, and also that, given he's the Chosen of Myrkul, he'll obviously be claimed by the god upon his death. Ketheric is in a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation.
Ketheric intrigued me a lot in my first play through of the game. While I immediately fan boy’ed over the voice of Mr. Jameson himself delivering an incredible performance, his story made me pause. Unlike Orin and Gortash (with the exception of learning about his past through a certain companion) don’t have compelling stories like he does. Orin is crazy and does crazy things because crazy dad says do crazy things for the lolz, and Gortash is just another cog in the cyclical wheel of abuse. But when I got to Moonrise towers, I spent hours combing the place, looking for every bit of info I could to see how to remove his immortality. Piece by piece I put together his story, until it finally clicked into place after raiding his bedroom and reading the materials in there. Ketheric wasn’t a villain because his parents were horrible, or because he is innately evil, he was just a man who loved his family more than anything. Ketheric is interesting (in my opinion) because he is so human. Any one of us could become like him, minus the whole immortal death paladin living in a cursed land. He is also the only major villain in the game who can be reasoned with before and during his fights. Being able to remind him of who he was and making him reflect on what his wife would think of him now reveals traces of his humanity. Of the three, Ketheric is my favorite antagonist in the game, and the competition doesn’t come close, which is saying something considering how incredible Orin’s acting and animations are!
It's possible that an agent of Shar approached Ketheric during his moments of weakness and eroded memories that would've kept him faithful to Selune. I could really see his tragedy be played out in a Demiplane of Dread, though I'm not sure how it would work with his role as Chosen of Urkel
Plausible, but I personally like him turning to Shar by his own grief way more. I mean there is no doubt he knew about Shar beforehand, so I would hate if it turns out someone was the one that changed him and not simply his own sorrow that was what lead him down the wrong path.
Let's just take a moment to appreciate the fact that they got this voice actor to voice this character. What a freaking legend. When from bring me pictures of Spider-Man to bring me my daughter back to life.
I was really joping you'd make an analysis on this! Ketheric was easily my favourite out of the three chosen and, at least in my opinion, the best written. A villain, yes, but ultimately a broken man who lost everything and felt abandoned by the goddess he upheld. All he wanted was his daughter back. Also helps that J.K Simmons nails every role he's in.
When I did a Paladin playthrough of BG3, my lady saw Ketheric not only as an abomination to cut down, but to kill him was an act of mercy. The man has lost so much, had his mind and soul twisted so far by rage and grief, the only thing that might bring him peace is death.
Bruh I was pissed because I was in Act 2 about to get to moonrise and my friend was like "oh yeah Ketheric he's voiced by that newspaper guy from spiderman" I almost killed him lmao. Would have been such a good surprise to find out organically.
Ketheric being so well written and having an entire act to be developed for himself is what made him such a great character. Imagine if act 3 was broken up into 2 separate acts 1 on the lower city and 1 on the upper to develop his buffoons of fellow chosen.
I just started a playthrough as a Selune cleric in the goal of romancing Shadowhart and guiding her to the light side, I hadn’t even considered the entirety of act two! I can’t wait to see how that will go now
By the time BG3 rolls around Ketheric is just a twisted shell of the man he once was and you need to stop him cause he's too far gone to stop himself. Solid Character
Off topic, but someone mentioned Ketheric tadpoling Isobel to a "1950s lobotomy for my unruly daughter," and I think that's so fucked up. It goes to show that in the end, while Ketheric wanted his daughter alive, he didn't want the person she actually was.
While this would have been a great plot point and I love it, is there evidence for this in game or just a headcanon for what would have happened if Markus takes her?
@@blueberrydragon5160if Marcus takes her, she will be alongside Kethric at the fight in the colony. You can loot the tadpole from her corpse after the fight.
It seems that he just wanted to have his wife and daughter for himself. Their feelings didn't matter. His wife was a dedicated Selune worshiper? He kills thousands in the name of Shaar. His daughter was in love with Selune's daughter? Traps Selune's daughter in a eternal prison, then tries to steal his daughter against her will to zombify her. I can't feel emphatic for this possessive scumbag. Though it's still a topic for discussion. As human mind can be manipulated in so many ways.
All three Chosen are excellent villains, though it requires a bit more work to learn about Gortash being sold to Raphael and put through torture, while Orin was forced to kill her mother in self-defense as a child, after her mother tried to murder her. It is no wonder all of them are very messed up.
This channel is criminally underrated. Very awesome BG3 video essays! Had a pretty crappy day and watching through all of these has helped a lot, so thank you!
So glad to finally see a video on such a great topic. Ketheric is masterfully written, performed, and paced. All supporting characters to his role exist in their own right and not simply to push his narrative across. Lots of other devs and writers need to take note. This is BRILLIANCE!
26:00 Imho act3 having so much content that players get lost is kind of amazing, because until then, the opposition our characters face was so oppressive alongside of a transformation on a seeming clock of a week or 7 LRs, so we're pretty railroaded as it comes to the main story beats. Upon reaching act3, that pressure fades. We're powerful adventurers by then, and the emperors/orpheuss help are revealed, denonstrating that we don't need to rush things. So we have to spend some time to get our bearings in the city and find a new story hook among some red herrings. It's a great and necessary "low" after a climax right before we offer up the world to our father Bhaal, as it should be.
The current goddess of magic is the fourth iteration of her. Mystryll died during the events of Karsus's Folly, the first mystra died during the time of troubles and the third died in 1385 assasinated by Cyric causing the spell plague
Me, marching in as a True Soul: "I've gotta be honest with ya general, I don't think religion is your thing. Have you considered atheism and grief counseling? I can refer you to a guy I know."
To be fair atheism is kinda dumb in faerun. Gods exist and it’s an undeniable fact (heck if you are strong enough you can visit their realms.) Dystheism might be a more adequate term - belief that gods are not worthy of worship. Still, though this might be my dnd nerd talking Ketheric should have known where his family went. ( They chillin in the upper planes.) Just gotta stay true to Selune and he’ll see them again. He’s an elf. He should know that a the time he has left is nothing compared to an eternity. Then again grieving people are not exactly rational. Agree on the therapist part. I hear followers of Illmater are good at that.
1:15 just a quick thing here. In the forgotten realms Myrkul is not actually the god of necromancy, that is another god known as Velsharoon (not like forgotten realms ever uses him, also he is dead last I heard). Myrkul was the god of the dead, (now a semi deity with the much more minor roles of decay, aging, and other stuff related to that) and the whole undead and necromancy situation was just myrkul being an asshole with the role and powers given to him (tho tbf most death deities do that). Good video though.
HEY, KETHERIC THORM HERE, JUST SAYING THAT IF A GOD OFFERS HELP, YOU TAKE THAT HELP, BECAUSE WHEN THEY TRY TO SWINDLE YOU YOU CAN JUST FIND ANOTHER GOD. ALWAYS WORKS, NEVER FAILS. ILLITHIDS, ILLITHIDS.
Great lore vid! I'm still on my first run through but yeah Kethric is quite a complex character. I like how it is up to the player to patch together the fragments of his life to see how he got to this
I've only watched half the video, but I've played through the game a couple of times and I feel compelled to comment. Almost ANYONE would do what ketheric did if he truly loved his daughter and wife. What we see of him in the actual game is just the husk left after his deal with the dark gods. The fact we cannot progress towards act 3 without killing him is a testament to this - it is a mercykilling.
34:30 - Man, I hate her. Twice prisoned, absolutely useless as ally ( she spent two fights at Act2 in a row choosing the weakest targets and missing with all her attacks. In Act 3 She flied to levitating furniture at Lorrocans tower and stood on them afk ), prisoned twice in a row, arrogant and always bragging.
I personally don't think it was the combined forces of Druids and Harpers that brought Ketheric down, at least not alone. As you said, there is evidence for people surrendering to him but him showing no mercy. While I'd argue that as a good General (which is stated more than once that he is/was), he wouldn't chase after his enemies if he didn't have the upper hand by a lot, there is also the architect of Moonrise in Raphael's house. He sold his soul to Raphael so Yurgir would tear down Ketheric's army and I think that played a huge part in Ketheric's defeat. Without the Druids and Harpers, this sacrifice might've not stopped Ketheric himself, but in my opinion, without Yurgir's intervention, the Harpers and Druids wouldn't have been able to defeat Ketheric either. I'm not sure if it is actually stated in the game, though I feel like it was. But even if it is not outright said, that is my personal interpretation of what happened prior to the story of BG3.
slight correction, the Mystra we meet in game is technically the fourth goddess of magic. Mystral came first, then the og Mystra who sacrificed herself, then Midnight who was a mortal woman ascended to godhood and took Mystra's name, She died and was eventually brought back but she merged with the echos of the last two so she isn't all Midnight(and this is the one we end up meeting).
Agreed. The whole story, Kethric, Isabel, our part in it all, the freeing of Aylin was amazing and Simmons' voice acting, I think, is some of the best in the game.
This particular mystra is the fourth incarnation of the goddess of magic. The first died during Karsis attempt at stealing her power. The second died during the first time of troubles. And the third died during the second Sundering.
Ketheric's intro is my fav of any video game villain too. Calming pronouncing judgement after clearly scaring the pants off Minthara. A goblin throws an axe into his chest. And he just pulls it out, drops it at her feet, and says "try again." Axe to the throat, calmly pulls it back out, healing before our eyes. While playing I thought "oh fuck, this guy really can't be killed. We must have to find some way to banish him to the Shadowfell or something."
these videos are really high quality and deserve way more views, this channel feels like your a youtuber who already knows what hes doing from another channel but could not branch out so you started this one as a new start, i know some youtubers that have done that. this content is really nicea nd well put together please dont give up on it because its not getting crazy views or subs yet
I would have loved Act II the most if I wasn't absolutely disgusted and afraid of the sheer amount of gore and creepiness in that area. They did the atmosphere so well I can't help but rush through the whole act to escape the area haha.
A lovely and very interesting video once more, my friend. Are you planning to do the companions or the other chosen as well? I'm kinda curious to see you do Gortash
I personally think what he DID to people make THEM the more tragic... He lost his wife and daughter, but brought his daughter back, so he REALLY only lost his wife... and he did SO much worse than was done to him to so many people... I mean he made Aylin a fucking 'murder' pincushion for Shar's minions for a HUNDRED YEARS... I think that kinda outstrips any tragedy HE suffered... but he is a very good tragic villain even so. I just feel like he had too much agency in his decisions to be the MOST tragic... the worst tragedies are ones that happen to people who have no say in it all.
Honestly, I think one of the biggest reasons people see Ketheric as more sympathetic than the other Chosen is that his story is a lot more grounded and relatable than Orin or Gortash. Ketheric's story is one of a man broken by his grief for his lost family and the trauma from his Goddess seemingly abandoning him, whereas Orin and Gortash, while their stories do have parallels to some more realistic scenarios, are still much more fantastical. I mean, not many people are the children of the God of Murder, much less raised in a murder cult, nor are most people sold to the literal Devil himself. Of course Orin and Gortash's stories do have some similar themes to Ketheric's, specifically in regards to familial trauma, what with Gortash having been sold by his abusive family to an arguably even more abusive master before breaking out and then serbing a cult that is devoted to yet another master, and Orin being abused since she was a child in the cult of Bhaal, which is the only family she's ever known and basically groomed to be a tool for her god.
*_Volo's Guide to General Ketheric Thorm:_* _The Shocking & Unbelievable_ *_TRUE_* _Story that Harper's_ *_DON'T_* _Want You to Know!_ - _A Novel by Volothamp Geddarm_
It's so sad that a lot of BG3 content got cut so that they could make a 2023 release. Imagine of Gortash and Orin had half as much characterization as Ketheric!
Not sure if anyone said it before but this story really seems to resemble that of Viego and many others. Men that lost everything and had to change into something else to provide. 😢
I'm kind of confused when it comes to Isobel about her father. She seems so weirdly dismissive about the whole thing, even after his death. Like, if the game didn't spell out the opposite for me, I'd think she wanted him to die ever since Dame Aylin came into the picture. Like some kind of fucked up rebellious teenage daughter murderplot. I'd prefer if she showed more confliction or remorse that he dies and/or can't look at Aylin the way she wants right away because she'd feel like her love for Aylin is the reason he became what he became.
Idk man, it makes sense that she'd have some serious disdain for Ketheric considering everything he did from her point of view. He betrayed Isobel by bringing her back to life against her will, betrayed their chosen goddess by switching to Shar/Myrkul and capturing Aylin, betrayed the place she lived in by causing the shadow curse, and on top of all that, she gets to find out about all of this long after he's completely changed from the guy he was when she died. I wouldn't blame her for thinking the real Ketheric died when she did; I'm pretty sure he echos a similar sentiment in one of his journals
Kind of agree. And the way Aylin eff's up Kethrics corpse was just kind of... feels like kethric was written masterfully while those two were written by a lesbian that had a bad relationship with thier dad. XD
Wait! What about the stonemason you meet in the house of Hope. He tells you he sold his soul to Raphael to stop Ketherine Thorm but he unleashed the shadow curse before he died.
Looks like I missed out on a lot of cutscenes by going straight to the mausoleum before even daring to face Ketheric. But I kind of figured I first needed to disable his immortality before even attempting to fight him. Once I finally got to the front entrance of Moonrise Towers, me and the Harpers were already set for battle.
Ketheric may be nuanced, but he isn't tragic. He's a stubborn, selfish, spiteful old man who could not accept his loved ones leaving him or changing. He viewed his family as objects to be controlled, not as actual people to love. The fact that he's self-conscious about it by the end does not absolve him of his guilt. Hell, he tortured Aylin for CENTURIES because he blamed her in part for "taking" Isobel away from him, despite them being romantic partners. That isn't tragic. That's evil.
tragically my first encounter with Ketheric was at the complete end of act 2, we didn't go to moonrise until the end, and the Durge player killed Isobel right before we went, after I freed Aylin. kinda made the whole scenario a bit odd but we reached the top of the tower and beat him with 2 speech checks. it wasn't until well after that I learned he's actually pretty neat and not just a sad guy who dies and becomes a big boney boy
I am not sure I see him as a tragic figure. Sure he suffered loss but in his grief he inflicted those losses on countless people and unleashed unimaginable horrors on the land. How many innocents suffered mutilation, torture and death due to Ketheric's actions? Pledged allegiance to an evil god and killed unbelievers when he turned to Shar, raised an army to bring war to the innocent, unleashed the shadow curse on the land killing and twisting everything it touched, switched to another evil god, participated in the Absolute crisis leading to more countless death and ruined lives. I think madness and evil was always under the surface, likely his happy family kept it at bay.
According to some in the comment section, there was apparently supposed to be some context surrounding at least Isobel's initial demise related to Halsin. But overall there doesn't seem to be hard answers regarding their deaths.
I Don't know if it was just my good dark urge paladin or not but I got prompted to offer forgiveness he denied in Moon tower then offered a 2nd time the grief/shame made him jump in the hole without fighting the 1st round of 2 with his fight
Mystra is the 4th, or kinda-sorta 3.5th incarnation. In short, Mystryl dies, and is reborn as Mystra, who dies and is embodied in a mortal witch named Midnight who ascends and takes her predecessors name... who dies when Cyric drives a Shar powered truck over her, and after some nonsense is reborn as Mystra again - a mix between Midnight and the original Mystra (not Mystryl).
It wasn’t explicit, but implied through the portion of his monologue: “when she was killed…” It’s not specified specifically when or how in the lore either. The specifics seem ambiguous.
Originally Halsin killed Isobelle in a fit of rage using a halberd he named Sorrow, he regretted what he did cause Kethric unleashed the Shadow Curse as a result. This was ultimately cut, though the halberd can still be found in the Emerald Enclave vault but, now has no narrative sense to exist. Isobelle’s death is unfortunately a mystery. Larian probably wanted to keep the focus on Kethric and alluding to blaming Selune and by proxy Aylin, for not protecting his family.
I love Ketheric's writing, and the fact that Aylin gets to kick his ass is amazing to me. I have never once handed Isobel over. Mostly because her and her girlfriend are perfect together
my biggest problem with kethric is that this is where the game peaks as far as characters go. He's infinitely more interesting than gortash or whats her name, i've beaten the game about 10 times and still can't remember her name because she's just that interesting.
With Ketheric I wonder what were the terms of his oath?, At least before he became a oathbreaker. Considering I doubt his oath was religious in nature, consideri
Ketheric: maybe this god will help me out this time
3rd times not the charm?
Tbf myrkul did deliver with his promises. Sure there was a high price, but no strings or cruel ironies attached (that we saw)
@@HanyaPanya444 Neutral Evil at its peak.
@@jcdenton2187 Not bound by law and focused unlike chaos. Neutral evil is the alignment of just getting shit done.
Maybe if there was a god of therapy Ketheric could’ve been saved 😅
That scene where Ketheric casually gets impaled, gets back up, and tells them "Try Again" is the best scene for an antagonist I've witnessed in the last couple years ngl
Right team cheese arives right after the shar temple and smashes his face in
Imagine being that fuckin goblin. Rolls the most critical success on that throw just for that mf to get up demanding pictures of Spider-Man
THINK GOBLIN! THINK!
I think ketheric might just be my favorite character in the game and J.K simmons does such a good job
J.K. Simmons made the character for me.
I thought the performance was subpar at best. That's not JK's fault; we know how good he is as JJJ on Spider-Man. It's those behind the character that made him dull.
@@AB-ez4rmDulm is exactly the vibe ketheric has.
He is just so insanely tired at the point we meet him. A man that has lost his faith in the world
He says my favourite line: We are copper pieces in their belts, tokens to be traded for scraps.
I love that he was voiced by Tenzin.
I love that he was voiced by omni man@@suzannah991
part of what makes Ketheric such a good villain is the fact that you can empathize with him - he's a man destroyed by grief having lost his wife and his daughter desperate to do anything to bring them back.
I’m surprised you didn’t talk about how if you learn about his wife before confronting him, you can try and convince him not to fight because this isn’t what she would’ve wanted. He turns you down because it’s too late to redeem himself, but he goes straight into giving himself to Myrkl instead of fighting you himself first. I feel like this shows that there’s still at least some part of him that knows what he’s doing is wrong, but he’s gone too far already to stop
Even if he did give up, it's irrelevant. Death means Myrkul's aspect will appear, and also that, given he's the Chosen of Myrkul, he'll obviously be claimed by the god upon his death. Ketheric is in a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation.
I didn't even realize you could fight him first I kept trying to convince him to go back.To being good And he was so close
Only JK Simmons could portray General Edgelord so compellingly. He is by far my favorite of the Chosen.
"Have you ever heard of the tragic tale of Ketheric Thorm?"
It's not a story the Harpers would tell you.
It’s a Sharran legend
Ironic. He could save others from death, but not himself
Can there ever be a lore video that couldnt make some varient of this refrence XD
Having a daughter myself, i can definitely empathize with Ketheric. I (edit: he) was so well written.
One of the most real villains we've seen in some time.
I assume you mean empathize? Yeah, so do I.
@SuperHansburger93 thanks for the correction :)
Who did write you?
@@Mindinvasion Oups
Pro tip: When attempting to acquire pictures of Spider-Man, don't consort with evil deities to get them. Not fun, would not recommend.
Ketheric intrigued me a lot in my first play through of the game. While I immediately fan boy’ed over the voice of Mr. Jameson himself delivering an incredible performance, his story made me pause. Unlike Orin and Gortash (with the exception of learning about his past through a certain companion) don’t have compelling stories like he does. Orin is crazy and does crazy things because crazy dad says do crazy things for the lolz, and Gortash is just another cog in the cyclical wheel of abuse. But when I got to Moonrise towers, I spent hours combing the place, looking for every bit of info I could to see how to remove his immortality. Piece by piece I put together his story, until it finally clicked into place after raiding his bedroom and reading the materials in there. Ketheric wasn’t a villain because his parents were horrible, or because he is innately evil, he was just a man who loved his family more than anything. Ketheric is interesting (in my opinion) because he is so human. Any one of us could become like him, minus the whole immortal death paladin living in a cursed land. He is also the only major villain in the game who can be reasoned with before and during his fights. Being able to remind him of who he was and making him reflect on what his wife would think of him now reveals traces of his humanity. Of the three, Ketheric is my favorite antagonist in the game, and the competition doesn’t come close, which is saying something considering how incredible Orin’s acting and animations are!
Elfanity (he's an elf) lol
J/k I agree with what you mean though, he's definitely one of the best written characters in the game.
J.K. Simmons was the voice of Ketheric. Although they probably both like Jameson Whiskey! LOL
@@angelstarlight6030He is a half High Elf. Still got humanity in there.
@@RazielTheUnborn ahh I thought he was a full elf and Melodia was human, sorry my mistake 😅
@@angelstarlight6030wait, does that make Isobel a quarter elf?
"Mystra, I mean the groomer"
Iirc, she was dead for most of the time gale was alive. He was probably in his late 20s/early 30s by the time they got the hots for eachother
@4m4n40 I'm pretty sure Mystra noticed Gale When he was 8, started dating around 19 or 20.
@@Graves933I think you’re talking about Elminster, he is Gale’s mentor and a chosen of Mystra
@4m4n40 No, I meant mystra. It was said she noticed him at a young age
The story also has Dame Aylin, the groomer.
It's possible that an agent of Shar approached Ketheric during his moments of weakness and eroded memories that would've kept him faithful to Selune.
I could really see his tragedy be played out in a Demiplane of Dread, though I'm not sure how it would work with his role as Chosen of Urkel
Plausible, but I personally like him turning to Shar by his own grief way more. I mean there is no doubt he knew about Shar beforehand, so I would hate if it turns out someone was the one that changed him and not simply his own sorrow that was what lead him down the wrong path.
😂 "Chosen of Urkel"
The character design, that face is real AF, his facial animations....wow, feels like I'm watching an actor and not CGI.
Let's just take a moment to appreciate the fact that they got this voice actor to voice this character. What a freaking legend. When from bring me pictures of Spider-Man to bring me my daughter back to life.
When I heard Throm first talk I was like yep Omniman threat than sure enough he proofed to be a Omniman threat
I was really joping you'd make an analysis on this! Ketheric was easily my favourite out of the three chosen and, at least in my opinion, the best written. A villain, yes, but ultimately a broken man who lost everything and felt abandoned by the goddess he upheld. All he wanted was his daughter back. Also helps that J.K Simmons nails every role he's in.
Thanks for waiting patiently! I hope you enjoyed.
When I did a Paladin playthrough of BG3, my lady saw Ketheric not only as an abomination to cut down, but to kill him was an act of mercy.
The man has lost so much, had his mind and soul twisted so far by rage and grief, the only thing that might bring him peace is death.
I honestly didn't know JK Simons did the voice of Kethric Throm until I heard his voice in game for the first time. It was absolutely epic.
Bruh I was pissed because I was in Act 2 about to get to moonrise and my friend was like "oh yeah Ketheric he's voiced by that newspaper guy from spiderman" I almost killed him lmao. Would have been such a good surprise to find out organically.
Ketheric is the most serious figure of the Chosen three.
*only serious figure
Fuck me reading all those books in game actually equipped me pretty darn well for this video
Ketheric being so well written and having an entire act to be developed for himself is what made him such a great character. Imagine if act 3 was broken up into 2 separate acts 1 on the lower city and 1 on the upper to develop his buffoons of fellow chosen.
*me after killing kethric*
"Aylin chill. Da-DAYUM CHILL!"
That scene made me hate Aylin ngl.
Me: hey! Don't steal my kill!
I knew Kethric had a dark past but good lord
Actually the Mystra you meet in BG3/5e is Midnight (Renamed Mystra), the First Mystra and the Second coming of the goddess of magic was murdered
Thanks for the clarification! These forgotten realms deities can get a bit confusing 😅
Katheric’s story is one of many i love of sorrow and pain dont know why i love these types of heartfelt painful stories
I just started a playthrough as a Selune cleric in the goal of romancing Shadowhart and guiding her to the light side, I hadn’t even considered the entirety of act two! I can’t wait to see how that will go now
By the time BG3 rolls around Ketheric is just a twisted shell of the man he once was and you need to stop him cause he's too far gone to stop himself. Solid Character
Ngl, I understand ketherics deservation towards isobels relationship with dame aylin, there is an extreme power imbalance
Off topic, but someone mentioned Ketheric tadpoling Isobel to a "1950s lobotomy for my unruly daughter," and I think that's so fucked up. It goes to show that in the end, while Ketheric wanted his daughter alive, he didn't want the person she actually was.
While this would have been a great plot point and I love it, is there evidence for this in game or just a headcanon for what would have happened if Markus takes her?
@@blueberrydragon5160if Marcus takes her, she will be alongside Kethric at the fight in the colony. You can loot the tadpole from her corpse after the fight.
It seems that he just wanted to have his wife and daughter for himself. Their feelings didn't matter.
His wife was a dedicated Selune worshiper? He kills thousands in the name of Shaar. His daughter was in love with Selune's daughter? Traps Selune's daughter in a eternal prison, then tries to steal his daughter against her will to zombify her.
I can't feel emphatic for this possessive scumbag.
Though it's still a topic for discussion. As human mind can be manipulated in so many ways.
All three Chosen are excellent villains, though it requires a bit more work to learn about Gortash being sold to Raphael and put through torture, while Orin was forced to kill her mother in self-defense as a child, after her mother tried to murder her. It is no wonder all of them are very messed up.
This channel is criminally underrated. Very awesome BG3 video essays!
Had a pretty crappy day and watching through all of these has helped a lot, so thank you!
Happy to hear I could help you out for a moment in time! Thank YOU for watching and enjoying!
All he truly wanted was incriminating photos of Spider-Man.
So glad to finally see a video on such a great topic. Ketheric is masterfully written, performed, and paced. All supporting characters to his role exist in their own right and not simply to push his narrative across.
Lots of other devs and writers need to take note. This is BRILLIANCE!
You got one of the best BG3 channels out there
Thank you so much! I aspire to be peoples' go-to for fantasy content like this.
Ketheric went gambling with godly masters and never lucked out.
26:00 Imho act3 having so much content that players get lost is kind of amazing, because until then, the opposition our characters face was so oppressive alongside of a transformation on a seeming clock of a week or 7 LRs, so we're pretty railroaded as it comes to the main story beats. Upon reaching act3, that pressure fades. We're powerful adventurers by then, and the emperors/orpheuss help are revealed, denonstrating that we don't need to rush things. So we have to spend some time to get our bearings in the city and find a new story hook among some red herrings. It's a great and necessary "low" after a climax right before we offer up the world to our father Bhaal, as it should be.
The current goddess of magic is the fourth iteration of her. Mystryll died during the events of Karsus's Folly, the first mystra died during the time of troubles and the third died in 1385 assasinated by Cyric causing the spell plague
In typical mage fashion, she dies very easily.
I can't get over the fact that he is voiced by j k Simmons.
J Jonah Jameson! Omniman!
he knows a thing or two because he's SEEN a thing or two
Thank you for crediting the thumbnail artist. The art is so lit!
Me, marching in as a True Soul: "I've gotta be honest with ya general, I don't think religion is your thing. Have you considered atheism and grief counseling? I can refer you to a guy I know."
To be fair atheism is kinda dumb in faerun. Gods exist and it’s an undeniable fact (heck if you are strong enough you can visit their realms.)
Dystheism might be a more adequate term - belief that gods are not worthy of worship.
Still, though this might be my dnd nerd talking Ketheric should have known where his family went. ( They chillin in the upper planes.) Just gotta stay true to Selune and he’ll see them again. He’s an elf. He should know that a the time he has left is nothing compared to an eternity.
Then again grieving people are not exactly rational.
Agree on the therapist part. I hear followers of Illmater are good at that.
1:15 just a quick thing here. In the forgotten realms Myrkul is not actually the god of necromancy, that is another god known as Velsharoon (not like forgotten realms ever uses him, also he is dead last I heard). Myrkul was the god of the dead, (now a semi deity with the much more minor roles of decay, aging, and other stuff related to that) and the whole undead and necromancy situation was just myrkul being an asshole with the role and powers given to him (tho tbf most death deities do that). Good video though.
my goal is to write a character as deep as Ketheric Thorm at some point
dew it
HEY, KETHERIC THORM HERE, JUST SAYING THAT IF A GOD OFFERS HELP, YOU TAKE THAT HELP, BECAUSE WHEN THEY TRY TO SWINDLE YOU YOU CAN JUST FIND ANOTHER GOD. ALWAYS WORKS, NEVER FAILS. ILLITHIDS, ILLITHIDS.
Great lore vid! I'm still on my first run through but yeah Kethric is quite a complex character. I like how it is up to the player to patch together the fragments of his life to see how he got to this
Thank you! Keep digging in act 3 and you’ll find even more about the chosen.
I've only watched half the video, but I've played through the game a couple of times and I feel compelled to comment. Almost ANYONE would do what ketheric did if he truly loved his daughter and wife. What we see of him in the actual game is just the husk left after his deal with the dark gods. The fact we cannot progress towards act 3 without killing him is a testament to this - it is a mercykilling.
34:30 - Man, I hate her. Twice prisoned, absolutely useless as ally ( she spent two fights at Act2 in a row choosing the weakest targets and missing with all her attacks. In Act 3 She flied to levitating furniture at Lorrocans tower and stood on them afk ), prisoned twice in a row, arrogant and always bragging.
I personally don't think it was the combined forces of Druids and Harpers that brought Ketheric down, at least not alone. As you said, there is evidence for people surrendering to him but him showing no mercy. While I'd argue that as a good General (which is stated more than once that he is/was), he wouldn't chase after his enemies if he didn't have the upper hand by a lot, there is also the architect of Moonrise in Raphael's house. He sold his soul to Raphael so Yurgir would tear down Ketheric's army and I think that played a huge part in Ketheric's defeat. Without the Druids and Harpers, this sacrifice might've not stopped Ketheric himself, but in my opinion, without Yurgir's intervention, the Harpers and Druids wouldn't have been able to defeat Ketheric either. I'm not sure if it is actually stated in the game, though I feel like it was. But even if it is not outright said, that is my personal interpretation of what happened prior to the story of BG3.
slight correction, the Mystra we meet in game is technically the fourth goddess of magic. Mystral came first, then the og Mystra who sacrificed herself, then Midnight who was a mortal woman ascended to godhood and took Mystra's name, She died and was eventually brought back but she merged with the echos of the last two so she isn't all Midnight(and this is the one we end up meeting).
Lore so deep the wiki still confuses me I guess 😅
@@FiguringOutFantasy yup Forgotten Realm lore is dense af.
Agreed. The whole story, Kethric, Isabel, our part in it all, the freeing of Aylin was amazing and Simmons' voice acting, I think, is some of the best in the game.
Ketheric: Let's go Worshipping!
Worship Selune: *buzzer* Aw dang it!
Worship Shar: *buzzer* Aw dang it!
Worship Myrkul: *buzzer* Aw dang it!
I swear, comments like these are my favorite part of making videos.
@@FiguringOutFantasy appreciated
Only person scarier than kethric is Durge and Kethric knows it lol
Note. Selune was originally the Goddess of Light period, full stop. And of course Mystril favored Selune, she's Selune's daughter.
Ketheric is omniman if his wife and son died
This particular mystra is the fourth incarnation of the goddess of magic. The first died during Karsis attempt at stealing her power. The second died during the first time of troubles. And the third died during the second Sundering.
Ketheric's intro is my fav of any video game villain too.
Calming pronouncing judgement after clearly scaring the pants off Minthara. A goblin throws an axe into his chest.
And he just pulls it out, drops it at her feet, and says "try again."
Axe to the throat, calmly pulls it back out, healing before our eyes.
While playing I thought "oh fuck, this guy really can't be killed. We must have to find some way to banish him to the Shadowfell or something."
these videos are really high quality and deserve way more views, this channel feels like your a youtuber who already knows what hes doing from another channel but could not branch out so you started this one as a new start, i know some youtubers that have done that. this content is really nicea nd well put together please dont give up on it because its not getting crazy views or subs yet
This is a great video, my man. He’s so well-written.
Happy to hear you enjoyed!
Ketheric does not seem to understand that you are allowed to love someone you are not allowed to possess them
And all this time I thought he wanted incriminating photos of Kar’niss the Drider… 😂
Lord Vader would vibe with this dude ngl. Such an amazing and well written character
Myrkul is the god of decay and bones, idk why Isabelle calls him that, but there’s already a god of necromancy.
I would have loved Act II the most if I wasn't absolutely disgusted and afraid of the sheer amount of gore and creepiness in that area. They did the atmosphere so well I can't help but rush through the whole act to escape the area haha.
A lovely and very interesting video once more, my friend. Are you planning to do the companions or the other chosen as well? I'm kinda curious to see you do Gortash
I personally think what he DID to people make THEM the more tragic... He lost his wife and daughter, but brought his daughter back, so he REALLY only lost his wife... and he did SO much worse than was done to him to so many people... I mean he made Aylin a fucking 'murder' pincushion for Shar's minions for a HUNDRED YEARS... I think that kinda outstrips any tragedy HE suffered... but he is a very good tragic villain even so. I just feel like he had too much agency in his decisions to be the MOST tragic... the worst tragedies are ones that happen to people who have no say in it all.
Honestly, I think one of the biggest reasons people see Ketheric as more sympathetic than the other Chosen is that his story is a lot more grounded and relatable than Orin or Gortash. Ketheric's story is one of a man broken by his grief for his lost family and the trauma from his Goddess seemingly abandoning him, whereas Orin and Gortash, while their stories do have parallels to some more realistic scenarios, are still much more fantastical. I mean, not many people are the children of the God of Murder, much less raised in a murder cult, nor are most people sold to the literal Devil himself. Of course Orin and Gortash's stories do have some similar themes to Ketheric's, specifically in regards to familial trauma, what with Gortash having been sold by his abusive family to an arguably even more abusive master before breaking out and then serbing a cult that is devoted to yet another master, and Orin being abused since she was a child in the cult of Bhaal, which is the only family she's ever known and basically groomed to be a tool for her god.
I wish you could've given isabel the note Ketheric kept from her after you beat him
*_Volo's Guide to General Ketheric Thorm:_* _The Shocking & Unbelievable_ *_TRUE_* _Story that Harper's_ *_DON'T_* _Want You to Know!_
- _A Novel by Volothamp Geddarm_
This Mystra is more of a 4th incarnation of Mystryll, rather than 2nd.
With Ketheric, entering act 2 I thought his power was over exaggeration
It's so sad that a lot of BG3 content got cut so that they could make a 2023 release. Imagine of Gortash and Orin had half as much characterization as Ketheric!
It's really a shame that Thorm wasn't the main big bad, Gortash and Orin just fail to compete with him.
Not sure if anyone said it before but this story really seems to resemble that of Viego and many others.
Men that lost everything and had to change into something else to provide. 😢
If only Ketheric had started worshipping Jergal instead. He would have brought Isobel back for a mere 200 gold.
Underrated comment
Should've had a scroll of true resurrection 🤦
I'm kind of confused when it comes to Isobel about her father.
She seems so weirdly dismissive about the whole thing, even after his death. Like, if the game didn't spell out the opposite for me, I'd think she wanted him to die ever since Dame Aylin came into the picture. Like some kind of fucked up rebellious teenage daughter murderplot.
I'd prefer if she showed more confliction or remorse that he dies and/or can't look at Aylin the way she wants right away because she'd feel like her love for Aylin is the reason he became what he became.
Idk man, it makes sense that she'd have some serious disdain for Ketheric considering everything he did from her point of view.
He betrayed Isobel by bringing her back to life against her will, betrayed their chosen goddess by switching to Shar/Myrkul and capturing Aylin, betrayed the place she lived in by causing the shadow curse, and on top of all that, she gets to find out about all of this long after he's completely changed from the guy he was when she died. I wouldn't blame her for thinking the real Ketheric died when she did; I'm pretty sure he echos a similar sentiment in one of his journals
I feel like it’s actually really healthy that she doesn’t blame aylin or herself for what her father became. It’s not their fault in any way
Kind of agree. And the way Aylin eff's up Kethrics corpse was just kind of... feels like kethric was written masterfully while those two were written by a lesbian that had a bad relationship with thier dad. XD
Sad backstory... still murder.
Wait! What about the stonemason you meet in the house of Hope. He tells you he sold his soul to Raphael to stop Ketherine Thorm but he unleashed the shadow curse before he died.
Great video could you do a video on either Gortash and Orin.
You can likely expect a video covering most of the prominent characters in bg3 at some point! Thank you for watching.
Looks like I missed out on a lot of cutscenes by going straight to the mausoleum before even daring to face Ketheric. But I kind of figured I first needed to disable his immortality before even attempting to fight him. Once I finally got to the front entrance of Moonrise Towers, me and the Harpers were already set for battle.
Ketheric may be nuanced, but he isn't tragic. He's a stubborn, selfish, spiteful old man who could not accept his loved ones leaving him or changing. He viewed his family as objects to be controlled, not as actual people to love. The fact that he's self-conscious about it by the end does not absolve him of his guilt.
Hell, he tortured Aylin for CENTURIES because he blamed her in part for "taking" Isobel away from him, despite them being romantic partners. That isn't tragic. That's evil.
Great video!
Thank you!
tragically my first encounter with Ketheric was at the complete end of act 2, we didn't go to moonrise until the end, and the Durge player killed Isobel right before we went, after I freed Aylin. kinda made the whole scenario a bit odd but we reached the top of the tower and beat him with 2 speech checks. it wasn't until well after that I learned he's actually pretty neat and not just a sad guy who dies and becomes a big boney boy
Amazing video 👍
I am not sure I see him as a tragic figure. Sure he suffered loss but in his grief he inflicted those losses on countless people and unleashed unimaginable horrors on the land. How many innocents suffered mutilation, torture and death due to Ketheric's actions? Pledged allegiance to an evil god and killed unbelievers when he turned to Shar, raised an army to bring war to the innocent, unleashed the shadow curse on the land killing and twisting everything it touched, switched to another evil god, participated in the Absolute crisis leading to more countless death and ruined lives. I think madness and evil was always under the surface, likely his happy family kept it at bay.
We still don't know how Melodia and Isobel died...
According to some in the comment section, there was apparently supposed to be some context surrounding at least Isobel's initial demise related to Halsin. But overall there doesn't seem to be hard answers regarding their deaths.
I Don't know if it was just my good dark urge paladin or not but I got prompted to offer forgiveness he denied in Moon tower then offered a 2nd time the grief/shame made him jump in the hole without fighting the 1st round of 2 with his fight
Mystra is the 4th, or kinda-sorta 3.5th incarnation. In short, Mystryl dies, and is reborn as Mystra, who dies and is embodied in a mortal witch named Midnight who ascends and takes her predecessors name... who dies when Cyric drives a Shar powered truck over her, and after some nonsense is reborn as Mystra again - a mix between Midnight and the original Mystra (not Mystryl).
Great video!
Thank you! I’m glad you enjoyed!
Did you ever mention when and how Isabelle died?
It wasn’t explicit, but implied through the portion of his monologue: “when she was killed…”
It’s not specified specifically when or how in the lore either. The specifics seem ambiguous.
Originally Halsin killed Isobelle in a fit of rage using a halberd he named Sorrow, he regretted what he did cause Kethric unleashed the Shadow Curse as a result. This was ultimately cut, though the halberd can still be found in the Emerald Enclave vault but, now has no narrative sense to exist.
Isobelle’s death is unfortunately a mystery. Larian probably wanted to keep the focus on Kethric and alluding to blaming Selune and by proxy Aylin, for not protecting his family.
I love Ketheric's writing, and the fact that Aylin gets to kick his ass is amazing to me. I have never once handed Isobel over. Mostly because her and her girlfriend are perfect together
The lesbians are adorable together
Fr? Perfect together? Do people actually think that?
Tbh I rather worship umberlee than shar if I was forced to pick lol
Honestly I'm with what Dame Alyin does to his corpse just cuz how bad that Myrkul fight is
TL;DW: Guy loses his wife and daughter, goes crazy, sells his soul to two different gods, commits atrocities, gets beaten.
my biggest problem with kethric is that this is where the game peaks as far as characters go. He's infinitely more interesting than gortash or whats her name, i've beaten the game about 10 times and still can't remember her name because she's just that interesting.
Her name is Orin and she's really only made significant in a Dark Urge playthrough.
With Ketheric I wonder what were the terms of his oath?, At least before he became a oathbreaker. Considering I doubt his oath was religious in nature, consideri
Nothing is more tragic than Arthur Morgan point blank
This is not more tragic than Sylvanas in my opinion.
Have you thought about making any videos about Elden ring, Or for its DLC perhaps?
I have some older videos of mine on Elden Ring, and let’s just say it’ll certainly be making another appearance on the channel!