Cost of ownership is a thing for those who know there is a future. Pennsylvania is instituting their EV gas tax registration next year, starting at $200/year but going up to $250 in 2026. Autocycles are exempt, so there's another $2000 savings over 8 years of operation.
Wow, thank you for this information! I live in Pennsylvania, and as an Accelerator will be getting one of the first Apteras next year. Great to know! 👍
I am currently sitting around #300. I was OK with the $33,000 maybe even going up to 35 or 36 but 39 or 40 for the LE. That’s where it starts getting sketchy. No belly pan cooling ,no in wheel motors, no all wheel drive, no Comma AI. Have I forgotten anything else?
No heat pump but that went out a long time ago. Something like it will take 2 years to develop the value controller and that was 4 years ago... By the time you add the cost of delivery, unless you live in the San Diego area, you are looking at at least another $1000 & you are well over $40k. I understand that Aptera needs to be around tomorrow but if you figure that 20% of the reservations will cancel with the old price, you can figure another 20% will cancel with all the key items removed. $40k is not an affordable vehicle. Drop the price back down to $32k & it might be worth it but let's see how the EPA & crash tests actually do before we really talk price. If you are getting less than 300 miles on a vehicle that was marketed at 400 & does not qualify for the tax credit, this is going to be a hard sell. Sure there are people who will buy it, there are people who buy Corvettes too. Affordable for the average person? Not at $40k.
I think Comma AI is an option. It was not a part of the LE. At least my reservation has it listed as an extra-cost option. I do have concerns though - how much is gained if the end result is a bog-standard EV wrapped in an Aptera shell at launch? How much of Aptera's soul gets sacrificed in the name of getting to production?
@@martinutr I really want Aptera to succeed as I have been a long-time follower and investor. It should be noted that the price listed is the retail list price. I am hoping that Aptera looks at the demographics of the average person, not the Accelerators in how much driving we will do. Most of us are 60+ and we are not driving as much as we once did when we were younger. I'm lucky to drive 12,000 miles a year when I used to drive 80,000+ a year. The maintenance savings is just not there. Granted I may benefit from the solar but let's see how the solar does in the real world, not San Diego. I'm thinking that the solar will barely keep the battery at temperature in the winter in the colder climates. Unfortunately, Aptera has lost a great deal of trust lately with the handling of in-wheel motors. Marketing IWM for at least 6 months when they knew it was not going to work out was a bad idea. Trust is earned over time but lost in an instant. I truly hope that Aptera doesn't have anymore surprises that stresses the trust in them.
@@jpeisen63 So the aerodynamic, lightweight design, which makes the on-board solar charging a meaningful resource, are somehow ancillary, NOT the soul of the vehicle?
$34k, $35k I can afford. Anything more than that might force me to wait for a cheaper model (shorter range) or used model. I'm currently driving a hybrid Hyundai top trim. 35k miles and no car payments. I soooo want an Aptera but I still have soooo many questions. Just need to wait and see.
@@TailosiveEV Possibly. There will be a lot of factors to consider. Car payment, gas, insurance, maintenance etc. Right now $0 car payment. About $45 a month in gas. The routine maintenance is more with a hybrid for sure but is it $400 or $500 a month more expensive? My insurance right now full coverage with Progressive is $500 per year I pay $250 per 6 months. I will definitely do my research before I decide. I made my reservation back in March so I have plenty of time with a reservation around 43,000. I will say this. I live in Kittery Maine. It's at the very southern tip of the state and right along the ocean. Just an hour from Boston MA. With global warming the way it is we don't get nearly as much snow as we used to. I'm hoping they'll take their vehicle to a winter weather testing facility. I know they exist. I just don't know exactly where.
@@TailosiveEV One last thing. The company I worked for went out of business. I worked for 36 years. I was 14. I made $75k. I'm now making $48k. I had to make lots of changes to my life. So money is a big factor for me. I'm also still looking for a better paying job. You would think with unemployment being low companies would be starving for employees and be willing to pay.
I was [am] hoping that LE owners would have some advantage over later owners, but it looks like it could be the other way around. My first reservation was for a front wheel drive 600 mile version. When the LE was announced I switched over to be able to get an Aptera a year (or two?) early - some of us aren’t getting younger! I don’t think AWD is that important to me as I will probably avoid driving in snow and had no thought about taking it “off-road” or to the drag strip. I’m looking at Aptera from the efficiency and fund standpoint. It will be fun to just get out and drive - to nowhere in particular for practically no cost. I have solar and where I am we have net metering where my excess generation is bought by the utility for 4¢/KWh. I generate each year a credit of approximately 2 giga watts so charging Aptera at home on even Level one is very doable. We all would like to get the best Aptera we can, as soon as possible and for the lowest [reasonable] cost. I’m looking forward to what Aptera has to tell us this month.
Always a risky decision to be a early adopter of a new product. (Look at early electric cars from Tesla, Fisker, Rivian, Lucid, Ford, VW....lots of bugs and issues that needs and will be ironed out in later iterations of the car)
I am an early investor and reservation holder ...but decided to not put more noney in for the Accelerator because there is only so much vaseline I can take. Prices going up, 2023, 2024, now 2Q 2025 launch dates, no heat pump, deleting this and that, 1,000 miles ...now 400... which in reality with a daily charge of 80% is probably 300 miles or so. How much more can investors, dreamers, believers take? And lets face it...yes Aptera has been somewhat transparent but also they do keep "hiding the sausage". Unless you are in the start-up auto industry none of us have a clue on the endless engineering, testing and validating of systems there are. Every so often the CEO's will say something about a system that makes me realize they are a LONG way from being ready to launch. They...very cleverly...look to be transparent but they are not. "Up to 40 miles of free charging from the sun"? Well I know a lot about solar (C46 licensed in CA) and just the angle of the sun, the daily trajectory, etc will not give you the 40 miles (I think). Hey Aptera...how hard is it for you to leave a car for 24 hours in the parking lot, do not move it...and give us an actual number? Also, when you get in the car...which is sitting in the blazing sun...and it is 120 degrees inside, how much energy will be wasted cooling it down? Probably at least 5 miles of juice? Anyway....I want them to succeed...and as a serial entrepeneur I feel for the whole Aptera team. It's tough. But ....us small investors have helped them along and they are starting to abuse us. If they want to sell me a car for the same price as a Tesla, that has the same range, no heat pump, restricted charging (Tesla still has not let all the other car co's to use all chargers) and seats 2 ....err....
I want Aptera to succeed, but I'm done being a cheerleader. After a year or two of touting the advantages of IWM's and defending them to naysayers along with the efficiency and benefits of the onboard solar, I've become a bit disillusioned. $40k for the LE is too much. I also want to see what the new drive train is. How efficient it is, and see at least one build with full solar and see some real-world numbers on range. Solar charging and crash safety.
$40,000.00 was the proposed price for the Aptera I reserved- 600 mile range, AWD, Open Pilot, and the pet kit. $40,000.00 for an Aptera with NONE of that? That's a whole lot less appealing.
It is not rational to vilify market participants for raising prices when fault is not theirs. Sadly, the vast majority have no clue about the true cause of price inflation.
It's a really tough sell at $40k. Even a base model 2025 Camry or Prius is actually a smarter buy for almost everyone. I'm an investor and a reservation holder (#19,500 ish range), so hopefully they have a budget model and tax credit by then. Otherwise, my 2015 low mileage Prius makes more sense in the long run. All about efficiency, right? A 250 mile version at around $25-27k feels right.
Uhhh, we've had at least a 20% devaluation of the US dollar from inflation so, 33k to 39K is just about in line with the change in the spending power of the dollar. In other words, the price of the car hasn't gone up, the value of the dollar has gone down.
So, about 50k gets the all solar AWD with no repair manual, no service and parts shops, no spare tire, no tools, China has the most economical and simple micro van all solar electric used for delivery in China and the price is less than 10% of Aptera, but 90% more practical
I talk up the Aptera often, but I have to admit that this drip, drip, drip of changes has me concerned. If we are not in production by this time next year, it will be time to re-evaluate getting an LE. This is unfortunate as I saw the Aptera at Fully Charged San Diego in 2022. There was so many positive signs. Almost two years later and Sono and Fisker are gone, and Elon supports Epstein’s pal. Hopefully Aptera persists.
Give up now, it isn't going to happen. Even if the founders were serious about bringing a car to market (very debatable) this vehicle is not economically viable. Closer to 50k if they actually made it.
I invested money because they said they could sell an Aptera for less than $30,000. If the price is $40,000 i would not buy one. I have a few vehicles that are paid for and I cannot see going in debt just to own an EV no matter how efficient it is. I am retired and I spend less than a car payment on gas each month. I wouldn't even consider buying a Tesla or a Rivian or any other EV. If I had an Aptera, I would use solar panels and a battery to charge it and the cost of that would be very low. I like the concept of the Aptera and it's efficiency, I don't think the cost of $40,000 is for me.
The cost of ownership issue is huge, as is the price point. For upper-middle-class guys, that price range isn't a big deal. For us in the lower middle class, the numbers get daunting quickly and I absolutely *have* to run that calculus to see if I can still be in at that price-range. (the question in our economic bracket isn't "Aptera vs Tesla," it's "Aptera vs traditional car."
@@astounded4546 Nah! Lots of parts are available for old cars, even if the old car company has bit the dust. Of course, they will cost you. If Aptera goes down, they will likely release their design files to the public domain. If Aptera gets bought out, the new company will support their customers.
@@astounded4546 with the amount of people investing and the amount more once they start rolling out cars and them being cheap tbh if they did go under they would tell everyone more about the parts so a 3rd part would make one but if they did go under it would be before anyone got theirs
That's a lot of money to pay for a first gen product from a company that has no experience making products. Especially when that product has such a limited feature set
A couple points: 1. The most efficient EV for sale in the US is made by Lucid, not Tesla. Still not close to Aptera in either efficiency or performance for value, but at least Lucid is trying. But that doesn't change the fact that Tesla dominates today's EV market simply because it provides the best overall value for the money. 2. MSRP is a wish in the car industry. In brands with dealers, the selling price is often well below MSRP. For Tesla, there is no such thing as MSRP, just "today's price" at the time of order. Aptera has repeatedly said they intend to honor preorder pricing (though they are not legally bound to so). However, once production starts there will be no more "preorders" being created ("preorder" is short for "pre-production order"), which to me means all NEW sales orders AFTER production starts will see increased pricing. No surprise there, if only due to inflation. Technically, if one of the PI builds is sold to a customer, that will could the official "start of production", so preorders could end in this year. Aptera has been fighting hard to reduce costs every step of the way, even if it means making major changes: - The switch from honeycomb composites was due to it being a hand-built technology that could not scale to use automation for larger production rates. As Steve has said, in the early days Aptera modestly expected to sell only 10K vehicles TOTAL, which could easily be met using hand-laid slow-cured composites. The rush of preorders soon blew that expectation out of the water, and only highly scalable technologies could be considered for the production vehicle. Which in turn greatly increased capital equipment costs (such as the massive body panel dies). - Aptera moving to an internal drive in the front to me simply means the wheel motor design, despite a huge amount of engineering and investment, could not be profitably produced at scale while meeting performance, efficiency and reliability goals, at least not compared to an equally capable internal drive. Keeping the rear wheel as a hub motor makes more sense, as it was always an option, never standard equipment. - Deleting the belly pan radiator from the Launch Edition is another cost-saving measure for scaled production. The thing is, it appears that Aptera had already accepted that at least a small conventional radiator with a fan would be needed to support hot weather DC fast charging, so the choice to make that radiator and fan larger saved lots of money compared to having two cooling systems in the vehicle. I believe this is also why Aptera initially tried to delete DCFC from the Launch Edition: The difference between 7KW Level 2 charging and 50KW Level 3 charging would let them keep belly pan cooling! But the preorder holders spoke with a VERY loud voice, and I believe this is the result. Another possible benefit of deleting belly pan cooling is that it may allow Aptera to use lower-cost batteries with slightly less efficient fast-charging curves, leading to further cost savings. A more useful thing to consider is where Aptera expects vehicle production to break even, where the economies of scale finally allow the price sold to cover the COGS (Cost of Goods Sold). The pitch deck for the US Capital Global $60M raise gives a range, where Aptera is pushing hard to hit the earlier end of that range. All Aptera really needs to do is get close to break even by the time of the IPO, so investors can be assured the IPO funds will go toward profitable production expansion. What would prevent Aptera from raising prices on preorder holders? Aptera changing the price for preorder holders could theoretically be a PR disaster that causing a rush of cancellations that could threaten the viability of the IPO. However, I think this risk is tiny (zero for stockholders), as most preorder holders know their production slots are still years away, and are more likely willing to wait until they get to the front of the line before making a go/no-go purchase decision, rather than reclaim their $100 or $70 preorder deposit. Which to me means that whoever DOES cancel their preorder will be doing it due to time delays rather than any price increase, even if the price increase is large (>10%).
I kinda expected it to end up around 40k for LE with inflation anyway so while i would obviously love it to be cheaper i am not all that surprised. Losing AWD is the biggest disappointment for me by far. Sure no heat pump or belly cooling or iwm sucks but most of the efficiency comes from the aerodynamics anyway. Awd is a big loss for cold weather climates though. BUT as someone who grew up in an area that regularly got major snow storms sometimes 3ft over night or freezing rain ontop of a fresh 1ft snowfall... Winter tires are more important than AWD. And I can always take off the wheel pans on the front 2 wheels and toss some chains on. If it still gets 8mi\kw or better I am still in.
I completely agree, tires are going to be more important than AWD in snow or ice, especially because there's only 3 of them. It's a completely different vehicle, but driving a FWD EV, a LEAF, for the last 6 Midwestern winters was a lot easier the years I ran winter tires than the years I kept the all seasons on, but even the all seasons were mostly fine. Aptera should have make quality snow tires, or any tires for that matter, from someone like Nokian available in their parts store because they're sure to be some oddball size that's practically impossible to acquire.
Dont be daft, you cant argue the cost of ownership anymore when a used model 3 can be had sub 20k. A very reliable car even for first gen. Literally doesnt matter how efficient the aptera is, if the price isnt a bit lower than starting brand new model 3 price, there will be problems.
Steve, at the Aptera Owners Club RUclips channel says the $39K figure shown in the U.S. Capital Global investor presentations is likely an overestimate, based on early quotes from suppliers that are skeptical of Aptera's prospects. Bids to supply parts (including battery cells) to Aptera are likely to get more competitive as Aptera gets closer to production. If Aptera passes on the resulting cost reductions, the actual pricing could very well end up lower than $39K. Keep in mind, that $39K figure comes from an investor presentation, so there may be a bias toward showing a higher prospective profit margin. There may also be a bias toward keeping expectations low (and initial cost projections high) with the hope of exceeding those expectations with a lower final price. There is also potential for substantial "side profits" from the automotive grade solar business that could offset pricing of Aptera vehicles. There's no indication that the investor presentation has taken this possibility into account. In summary, there is reason to be optimistic that the price could end up substantially less than the $39K listed in the investor presentation, and closer to the $34K that was originally presented for the Launch Edition.
You make some good points here. However, what this essentially means is a lot of the people who signed on and have been patiently waiting for years did so because their initial advertisement was for a vehicle that could be obtained for around $25,000. What that essentially means is many of the customers are not really customers at all. They might become customers down the road once they figure out how to make the vehicle cheaper, but right now their lists do not accurately reflect their true customer base.
I agree we don’t know the true customer base, but that goes both ways. There’s a ton of people who would never put a reservation down on a vehicle that didn’t exist. Many customers likely don’t even know about it yet
I have an Aptera reservation and I definitely want them to succeed but there are more and more concerns arising. You compare the cost of the Aptera to a Tesla Model 3. Big difference between these two cars, mainly, you're comparing a 2 seater to a 5 seater. Efficiency cannot be easily compared between a car that's only capable of moving me and a passenger with one that is able to move me and my whole family. When you consider the application possibilities, the Tesla wins hands down. Not that I want that car, I want the Aptera, but with the recent increase in cost of the Aptera and loss of all wheel drive, it's beginning to look much more questionable..
Both my Honda Civic and my Toyota Rav4 get 36 MPG at 15,000 miles/year and fuel at $3.20 per gallon, I am paying $1,333 per year for fuel for either vehicle. A Model 3 costs $1,166.55 for charging to drive 15,000 miles according to this video. Given that information I do not see where the average electric car is beating my SUV or midsized car on fuel economy or total cost of ownership. How green are Teslas? They are not beating my cars in my opinion.
If you’re considering giving up your spot or delaying your reservation for any reason, I’d be thrilled to swap spots with you! I’m currently around 42,000th on the reservation list for Aptera because I somehow only discovered them about a year ago. Since then, I’ve been absolutely obsessed with the vehicle. :)
Let’s exchange a way to communicate. I’m in San Diego and received the Aptera email that mine, #22,000 ish, will be available to purchase in 2025. $40k for front wheel drive has me question this purchase. I would like someone to call and give my spot to someone that would be happy to appreciate the product sooner. I may wait longer for a three wheeled version at the price of $34k. It’s such a bummer that it doesn’t qualify for the tax credit.
Need to worry about pot hole damage to the Aptera wheel skirts or as they call it pants. I still have a concern about the potholes on the roads I drive.
If Apterea ever comes to market, the early innovators will buy, no matter the price. But quite quickly, the reality of the business cycle will set in. At 38k, not many buyers will be there.
@@GullWingInnMoclips it gets pretty annoying seeing shameless simps always being the top comment on any tech channel. No insight, no originality, no relevance. Basically spam so deserves to be called out.
I think it’s smart to also wait it out a bit. I have followed Aptera since their first attempt in the late 2000s as a kid but it being a startup we should expect some hiccups as they get their footing
I signed on and put a deposit down back in 2022. They’ve changed the drivetrain, now the price is going up? Well this isn’t what I signed on for. They can sell them for whatever they want but if it’s more then I’m out! I’m also out because of the drivetrain! Just another company not delivering what they promised. How many more changes before the first delivery?
If it does cost 39k it will fail. It doesn't make any sense to pay that much for a trike. Two seats at a 39k price tag doesn't make sense when I could just jump for something that does a lot more.
All good points Drew, I'm an early supporter and investor with an AWD on order for 3 years, but live where I would only save about $300-$400/year on electricity. But verging on $40k for a FWD which won't work for me, unless I only want to drive it 6-7 months per year, is pushing it. That's 43% more than my originally quoted price, with full solar and AWD. I get the other savings too. But I am retired and don't know if I'll even be able to afford it at that price. Most car companies would kill for a 10% margin, especially a startup EV company, for which most of those still standing are in the red for several years. According to their spreadsheet a 10% margin would put the car closer to the price I was quoted. I get these breakeven exercises having developed them for a startup I worked for, but releasing this spreadsheet as is was a mistake. We all get tied to expectations. I think it is asking a lot for most supporters to just look the other way. I'm still in, but not happy... remember the DC Fast charging issue?
The figures there are manufacturing costs only and don't include wages, real estate costs or insurance, etc. It's after all those that GM or whoever has a 5% margin
I don't think it's an unsprung weight issue with the hub motors, Elaphe knew that was a problem and exhaustively tested for it. This sounds more like a volume commitment issue where Aptera is determined to roll out (minimum) 6k units per year and Elaphe refused to or couldn't commit.
Actually, Aptera is committed to building 10,000 to 20,000 per year from their first factory alone. Their financial guy figured they would break even at 6,000 per year. More is profitable. They currently have reservations for over 47,000.
For about 40k, I’d start to think about a cheaper ev such as en equinox ev, used model 3 or equivalent in range and price and pre order the Gosun solar ev charger.
I hope this isn't the case. I was just going to get the 250 mi range version but for this price I can just go to used Chevy bolt and save a lot of money. Granted and the solar efficiency and the insurance would save a lot of money but not $10,000 worth.
Using 35 cents per kWh is insanely high. The average in the US is 12.7 cents. If you want to make an argument specifically for people in California then I guess that’s fine. And that’s not even off-peak
Unfortunately, if that's the case, I'm out... for a two-seater?? ... 40 grand... not worth it. Especially now that it's not awd... I'm better off getting the rwd tesla for basically the same price AND it's proven.
I don't think it's fair to say that we were never "in". I consider myself a fairly loyal Aptera fan. I'm about 11,000 on the reservation list, and I'm an investor. I really wanted an Aptera. I think I can definitely make a two seater work, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't find more use out of it if it had more seats. I do have a family and I planned to use the Aptera for those trips where I only have two or less passengers, which is about 80% of my trips, and use the family car for everything else. But, that isn't to say that it wouldn't be more convenient to have a car that I can put the whole family in. It would be more convenient and I'd probably get a bit more use out of that car. The two seater was a disadvantage that I was willing to live with to get a good, innovative, low cost EV. Aptera no longer looks to be a low cost EV. For what it is 40k seems extraordinarily high. Especially considering no tax credit. I just cannot justify that. The napkin math you're doing doesn't really apply to me either. I drive less than 5k miles a year. I don't think I'd ever make up the cost difference. If that really is the cost, and they've known that for the last several months, then it also seems quite deceptive. We've all seen Chris and Steve on the news advertising a much lower price point that they apparently knew wasn't really true. Between this and the switch to FWD, I'm out. Based on this price, I also don't have a lot of confidence in the success of the company. If I were able to, I'd sell my shares. Fortunately, it's not a lot of stock, so I guess I won't be out too much. I'm hoping that I'm just overreacting. A lot of bad news has been leaked surrounding Aptera, and they really haven't responded to any of it yet. I'm willing to see what they have to say first. Hopefully, they address the rumor mill in detail in their July update.
Your math sounds about right but it feels like clutching at straws to justify it which I understand as we all want to see the Aptera be successfull. Its definitely concerning to see so many compromises so late in the game...
I'm good with the price. The two questions I have are whether or not I can fit and what the service situation will be like. I'm not that skilled at car repair and my neck of the woods doesn't seem to have any independent shops that work on EVs. Still I appreciate the car's efficiency and the possibility that I might be able to cover all my driving on solar energy. I'd like to see this company succeed.
It would be bad business for investors, image and reservation holders if they price it at $39k. It is not hub drive, not AWD, and if the other claims you are stating if reduced battery storage/solar/etc, it would be a huge disservice compared to the current Tesla reduced costs
I did a quick analysis of the lifetime cost savings given the high efficiency and the solar. I made some careful guesses about how much home charging is done vs. charging station and used national averages for the electricity costs for both. Let's say you drive 300k miles by charging at home (16 cents/kWh), and an additional 10k miles using a Level 3 charger (40 cents/kWh). A car that gets 4 miles on 1 kWh will use $13,000 of electricity over that distance. Let's say over a 10 year period that an Aptera gets 30k miles from solar (less than 10 miles/day). Its cost for the same distance traveled would be about $5200. It's not a huge savings, but it does mean that when you compare the price of an Aptera with another car, you can safely say that it is at least $7000 less to operate over the lifetime distance. The difference would be substantially more in some areas, where the cost of home electricity is more like 25 cents/kWh. Even more true for a sunny area where you might average 20 miles/day solar. And the longer you own it and the more miles you drive, the more the savings. (Original posted on Aptera Owners Club Aug 2).
Love the Aptera! If someone damages the in hub wheel motor driving over a giant deep pothole, I wonder how much it will cost to repair or replace the in hub wheel motor and the wheel together? And how long of a waiting day for the repair job to be finished? And where do people take their Aptera for a regular maintenance service check-up?
Not fully. A 120 volt plug will give you about 13 miles of added range per hour. Fully charging the 40kWh battery will take about 31 hours Still, if you get home at 6:00 PM and leave at 8:00 AM, that's more than 180 miles overnight.
@@robertkirchner7981 You're only assuming 1.3kw, which is 12 amps from a 120 volt outlet, which yes could be pulled from basically any outlet, but a lot of 120 volt circuits support 20 amps. I got 16 amp EVSE for my LEAF which is 1.8kw. That would give you more like 18 miles added range per hour and a full charge time of just over 22 hours and closer to 250 miles per night on the Aptera. Still not full, but 250 miles is a lot to drive every day.
I would really like to know if they begin sales, would there be plans to cover sales all of US, aka all of the territories (living on Guam 🇬🇺 currently). Might be a far cry but our tropical weather would be perfect for a solar EV.
But then there are those in a situation like mine where it's the absolute cost and not ultimate realitive value. $25k was my top number that I thought I could stretch to $29500 as first I saw it. I'm retired and will be a very low milage driver so there isn't much advantage for me in total miles. $40k simply takes me out of the market as I likely won't live long enough to see the return. Let alone be able to purchase to begin with. Anyone want to buy my approx. deposit number (26,000 +-)?
I agree with all the price with the current economic situation. 40k is a lot, I can get a 15k used tesla and slap some panels on with open source software.
I live in Texas, so... very sunny. I also have free electricity on the weekends, so... free charging! And yes, my electric company has suggested I charge my car on the weekend because we have massive wind farms and my commute is only 10 minutes. Aptera is going to save me quite a lot of money overall.
02:00 -- "tricky predicament that they find themselves in" ??? They've been at it since 2006. How long does it take to find oneself in a _predicament_ ???
If you look at TCO compared to a model 3, we should also include the resale value. That is almost impossible nowadays, but in 8 years' time, assuming new purchases, it will be a major factor. For the time being, I have to wait longer in Europe, so I maintain my reservation and wait patiently... :-)
My summer rate (May - August) for me is $0.13/kWh. Winter (rest of the year) is $0.06 kWh at night and $0.09 kWh in the day. Northern Missouri area. My MY LR costs less than $10 to charge. Will be even less once my solar and battery system is purchased and installed.
Quibbling about the price seems ludicrous. Most early adopters of a new product are willing to pay for being first. Launch Edition vehicles might be anywhere from $33,000-39,500. But getting those on the road are worth tons of marketing $$$ to Aptera.
IDK why people panic over these things. This BOM is for the 40Kw version which goes further than most people need. The 24kW or so version will be like 2K cheaper (36K). Costs will fall like 10% pretty fast at scale. Anyone who really wants a 31K Aptera will just have to wait an extra 2 years. That's nothing in the context of cars
In your comparison if you didn't touch on the fact that the M3 is a more versatile family sedan I was going to point that out. In all reality there's no comparison between these two. In a world of a two car household one could own an Aptera for the efficiency and getting around town and that occasional 1 person to 2 person getaway and have the M3 for that same 1 or 2 person getaway or family getaway when you need more storage for more stuff you're hauling on the trip.
Your electricity cost is much higher than mine, which is only .12 per kwh. That brings any savings way down. And if you have solar on your roof, where it belongs, the whole thing disappears. But back to the main subject, $39k is absurd for a three wheeler. You can buy a Nissan Leaf for less than $30k, and it's a four wheel actual car that doesn't require a special license, not to mention four seats etc. And, the Aptera price estimates keep going up while the other EV's keep going down. And that's not even considering the Chinese EV's, which will be available to most of the world at a fraction of the price. Aptera is completely doomed. And that's a good thing because they are bringing EV's into disrepute with their impractical aspects and lack of actual production.
i would love to see this type of vehicle on the road however this vehicle is way over priced for what it is. it has no service centers and this will be a major issue... this company/product is no way close to any of the companies you just mention....i do not see how they will make it
I think you are correct this vehicle is for enthusiast. What happens after all the enthusiast get one? Isn’t that related to decreased EV demand? 40k for something Aptera an EV startup feels like a gamble. I think your are the few people who can afford it. Please do more videos about money. I would love to see the annual cost of ownership of your Tesla. I also love to see everyone comparing notes on the podcast .
Most people may not need more than 2 seats most days. But they think they do. And people need cars that can do everything they need. For instance we carry 4 people often. Can’t fit 3 or more in it. So no thought.
Aptera should gouge the first 10 thousand customers and then set up a factory in Mexico and China. This vehicle only makes sense at $20,000 or less. Simple
Depends on which state you drive in. Some don't allow child seats in any autocycle. A few require helmuts for young riders. Check the DMV in your state.
Just do a search for US-market EVs with a range of 400+ miles, and look at how much they cost. I see Mercedes EQS, Rivian R1T and R1S; Tesla Model S; Lucid Air, and the Chevy Silverado EV. The Fisker Ocean apparently had a model with a 400+ mile range, but , umm ... yeah.
Lol for one - if you do a search on them, you will find that they can fit more than 2 people. Even the expensive Rivian R1S is around 90K for 410 miles but it can fit 7 people! If we compare that to Aptera - you would need over 3 Apteras to carry the same amount of people. At 40K a piece that would be over 120K dollars! You are comparing apples to oranges here. There are e-bikes that can do 70 miles and are under 2.5 K doesn’t mean that an e-bike is the cheaper option.
And the Rivian model, and the ford model, and the lucid model, and the Toyota model. Wait maybe it’s just difficult and challenging to mass produce vehicles affordably?
Cost of ownership is a thing for those who know there is a future. Pennsylvania is instituting their EV gas tax registration next year, starting at $200/year but going up to $250 in 2026. Autocycles are exempt, so there's another $2000 savings over 8 years of operation.
Wow, thank you for this information! I live in Pennsylvania, and as an Accelerator will be getting one of the first Apteras next year. Great to know! 👍
Figures, PA would start double dipping EV owners to pay Philly leeches to sit on their arses.
Okay but the black and gold Aptera in the thumbnail? Cleanest one by far
That's the aptara marketed towards the middle east!
@@timariankatterjohn9549cool! Is it specific to there or will it be coming to NA?
Stop it now, this has gone far enough - Aptera will never deliver a vehicle
I am currently sitting around #300. I was OK with the $33,000 maybe even going up to 35 or 36 but 39 or 40 for the LE. That’s where it starts getting sketchy. No belly pan cooling ,no in wheel motors, no all wheel drive, no Comma AI. Have I forgotten anything else?
No heat pump but that went out a long time ago. Something like it will take 2 years to develop the value controller and that was 4 years ago... By the time you add the cost of delivery, unless you live in the San Diego area, you are looking at at least another $1000 & you are well over $40k.
I understand that Aptera needs to be around tomorrow but if you figure that 20% of the reservations will cancel with the old price, you can figure another 20% will cancel with all the key items removed. $40k is not an affordable vehicle. Drop the price back down to $32k & it might be worth it but let's see how the EPA & crash tests actually do before we really talk price. If you are getting less than 300 miles on a vehicle that was marketed at 400 & does not qualify for the tax credit, this is going to be a hard sell. Sure there are people who will buy it, there are people who buy Corvettes too. Affordable for the average person? Not at $40k.
@@ddessert6. I want Aptera to succeed, but you bring up many concerning facts. Thank you.
I think Comma AI is an option. It was not a part of the LE. At least my reservation has it listed as an extra-cost option.
I do have concerns though - how much is gained if the end result is a bog-standard EV wrapped in an Aptera shell at launch? How much of Aptera's soul gets sacrificed in the name of getting to production?
@@martinutr I really want Aptera to succeed as I have been a long-time follower and investor. It should be noted that the price listed is the retail list price. I am hoping that Aptera looks at the demographics of the average person, not the Accelerators in how much driving we will do. Most of us are 60+ and we are not driving as much as we once did when we were younger. I'm lucky to drive 12,000 miles a year when I used to drive 80,000+ a year. The maintenance savings is just not there. Granted I may benefit from the solar but let's see how the solar does in the real world, not San Diego. I'm thinking that the solar will barely keep the battery at temperature in the winter in the colder climates.
Unfortunately, Aptera has lost a great deal of trust lately with the handling of in-wheel motors. Marketing IWM for at least 6 months when they knew it was not going to work out was a bad idea. Trust is earned over time but lost in an instant. I truly hope that Aptera doesn't have anymore surprises that stresses the trust in them.
@@jpeisen63 So the aerodynamic, lightweight design, which makes the on-board solar charging a meaningful resource, are somehow ancillary, NOT the soul of the vehicle?
$34k, $35k I can afford. Anything more than that might force me to wait for a cheaper model (shorter range) or used model.
I'm currently driving a hybrid Hyundai top trim. 35k miles and no car payments.
I soooo want an Aptera but I still have soooo many questions.
Just need to wait and see.
Aptera would still be cheaper than your Hyundai after factoring in cost of ownership
@@TailosiveEV Possibly. There will be a lot of factors to consider.
Car payment, gas, insurance, maintenance etc.
Right now $0 car payment. About $45 a month in gas. The routine maintenance is more with a hybrid for sure but is it $400 or $500 a month more expensive? My insurance right now full coverage with Progressive is $500 per year I pay $250 per 6 months.
I will definitely do my research before I decide. I made my reservation back in March so I have plenty of time with a reservation around 43,000.
I will say this. I live in Kittery Maine. It's at the very southern tip of the state and right along the ocean. Just an hour from Boston MA. With global warming the way it is we don't get nearly as much snow as we used to.
I'm hoping they'll take their vehicle to a winter weather testing facility. I know they exist. I just don't know exactly where.
@@TailosiveEV One last thing. The company I worked for went out of business. I worked for 36 years. I was 14. I made $75k. I'm now making $48k. I had to make lots of changes to my life. So money is a big factor for me.
I'm also still looking for a better paying job.
You would think with unemployment being low companies would be starving for employees and be willing to pay.
i'm so hyped for aptera. I hope they make it!
Hope is not a strategy
I was [am] hoping that LE owners would have some advantage over later owners, but it looks like it could be the other way around. My first reservation was for a front wheel drive 600 mile version. When the LE was announced I switched over to be able to get an Aptera a year (or two?) early - some of us aren’t getting younger! I don’t think AWD is that important to me as I will probably avoid driving in snow and had no thought about taking it “off-road” or to the drag strip. I’m looking at Aptera from the efficiency and fund standpoint. It will be fun to just get out and drive - to nowhere in particular for practically no cost. I have solar and where I am we have net metering where my excess generation is bought by the utility for 4¢/KWh. I generate each year a credit of approximately 2 giga watts so charging Aptera at home on even Level one is very doable. We all would like to get the best Aptera we can, as soon as possible and for the lowest [reasonable] cost. I’m looking forward to what Aptera has to tell us this month.
Always a risky decision to be a early adopter of a new product. (Look at early electric cars from Tesla, Fisker, Rivian, Lucid, Ford, VW....lots of bugs and issues that needs and will be ironed out in later iterations of the car)
I can already tell you what is Aptera going to tell us this month. Delays and excuses as always
early adopters are just beta testers
I am an early investor and reservation holder ...but decided to not put more noney in for the Accelerator because there is only so much vaseline I can take. Prices going up, 2023, 2024, now 2Q 2025 launch dates, no heat pump, deleting this and that, 1,000 miles ...now 400... which in reality with a daily charge of 80% is probably 300 miles or so. How much more can investors, dreamers, believers take? And lets face it...yes Aptera has been somewhat transparent but also they do keep "hiding the sausage". Unless you are in the start-up auto industry none of us have a clue on the endless engineering, testing and validating of systems there are. Every so often the CEO's will say something about a system that makes me realize they are a LONG way from being ready to launch. They...very cleverly...look to be transparent but they are not. "Up to 40 miles of free charging from the sun"? Well I know a lot about solar (C46 licensed in CA) and just the angle of the sun, the daily trajectory, etc will not give you the 40 miles (I think). Hey Aptera...how hard is it for you to leave a car for 24 hours in the parking lot, do not move it...and give us an actual number? Also, when you get in the car...which is sitting in the blazing sun...and it is 120 degrees inside, how much energy will be wasted cooling it down? Probably at least 5 miles of juice? Anyway....I want them to succeed...and as a serial entrepeneur I feel for the whole Aptera team. It's tough. But ....us small investors have helped them along and they are starting to abuse us. If they want to sell me a car for the same price as a Tesla, that has the same range, no heat pump, restricted charging (Tesla still has not let all the other car co's to use all chargers) and seats 2 ....err....
I want Aptera to succeed, but I'm done being a cheerleader. After a year or two of touting the advantages of IWM's and defending them to naysayers along with the efficiency and benefits of the onboard solar, I've become a bit disillusioned. $40k for the LE is too much. I also want to see what the new drive train is. How efficient it is, and see at least one build with full solar and see some real-world numbers on range. Solar charging and crash safety.
$40,000.00 was the proposed price for the Aptera I reserved- 600 mile range, AWD, Open Pilot, and the pet kit. $40,000.00 for an Aptera with NONE of that? That's a whole lot less appealing.
It is not rational to vilify market participants for raising prices when fault is not theirs. Sadly, the vast majority have no clue about the true cause of price inflation.
I want them to make an adequate profit. Beyond that I am looking forward to getting my Aptera.
It's a really tough sell at $40k. Even a base model 2025 Camry or Prius is actually a smarter buy for almost everyone. I'm an investor and a reservation holder (#19,500 ish range), so hopefully they have a budget model and tax credit by then. Otherwise, my 2015 low mileage Prius makes more sense in the long run. All about efficiency, right? A 250 mile version at around $25-27k feels right.
Uhhh, we've had at least a 20% devaluation of the US dollar from inflation so, 33k to 39K is just about in line with the change in the spending power of the dollar. In other words, the price of the car hasn't gone up, the value of the dollar has gone down.
So, about 50k gets the all solar AWD with no repair manual, no service and parts shops, no spare tire, no tools, China has the most economical and simple micro van all solar electric used for delivery in China and the price is less than 10% of Aptera, but 90% more practical
I talk up the Aptera often, but I have to admit that this drip, drip, drip of changes has me concerned. If we are not in production by this time next year, it will be time to re-evaluate getting an LE.
This is unfortunate as I saw the Aptera at Fully Charged San Diego in 2022. There was so many positive signs. Almost two years later and Sono and Fisker are gone, and Elon supports Epstein’s pal. Hopefully Aptera persists.
Give up now, it isn't going to happen. Even if the founders were serious about bringing a car to market (very debatable) this vehicle is not economically viable. Closer to 50k if they actually made it.
The bots got removed in less then 5m yes
I invested money because they said they could sell an Aptera for less than $30,000. If the price is $40,000 i would not buy one. I have a few vehicles that are paid for and I cannot see going in debt just to own an EV no matter how efficient it is. I am retired and I spend less than a car payment on gas each month. I wouldn't even consider buying a Tesla or a Rivian or any other EV. If I had an Aptera, I would use solar panels and a battery to charge it and the cost of that would be very low. I like the concept of the Aptera and it's efficiency, I don't think the cost of $40,000 is for me.
The cost of ownership issue is huge, as is the price point. For upper-middle-class guys, that price range isn't a big deal. For us in the lower middle class, the numbers get daunting quickly and I absolutely *have* to run that calculus to see if I can still be in at that price-range. (the question in our economic bracket isn't "Aptera vs Tesla," it's "Aptera vs traditional car."
Also repair costs because they have right to repair
Only if they’re around to provide parts and support
@@astounded4546… or if a third party offers parts.🤓
@@fotoguru222 That only works if Aptera is still up and running.
@@astounded4546 Nah! Lots of parts are available for old cars, even if the old car company has bit the dust. Of course, they will cost you. If Aptera goes down, they will likely release their design files to the public domain. If Aptera gets bought out, the new company will support their customers.
@@astounded4546 with the amount of people investing and the amount more once they start rolling out cars and them being cheap tbh if they did go under they would tell everyone more about the parts so a 3rd part would make one but if they did go under it would be before anyone got theirs
That's a lot of money to pay for a first gen product from a company that has no experience making products. Especially when that product has such a limited feature set
A couple points:
1. The most efficient EV for sale in the US is made by Lucid, not Tesla. Still not close to Aptera in either efficiency or performance for value, but at least Lucid is trying. But that doesn't change the fact that Tesla dominates today's EV market simply because it provides the best overall value for the money.
2. MSRP is a wish in the car industry. In brands with dealers, the selling price is often well below MSRP. For Tesla, there is no such thing as MSRP, just "today's price" at the time of order.
Aptera has repeatedly said they intend to honor preorder pricing (though they are not legally bound to so). However, once production starts there will be no more "preorders" being created ("preorder" is short for "pre-production order"), which to me means all NEW sales orders AFTER production starts will see increased pricing. No surprise there, if only due to inflation. Technically, if one of the PI builds is sold to a customer, that will could the official "start of production", so preorders could end in this year.
Aptera has been fighting hard to reduce costs every step of the way, even if it means making major changes:
- The switch from honeycomb composites was due to it being a hand-built technology that could not scale to use automation for larger production rates. As Steve has said, in the early days Aptera modestly expected to sell only 10K vehicles TOTAL, which could easily be met using hand-laid slow-cured composites. The rush of preorders soon blew that expectation out of the water, and only highly scalable technologies could be considered for the production vehicle. Which in turn greatly increased capital equipment costs (such as the massive body panel dies).
- Aptera moving to an internal drive in the front to me simply means the wheel motor design, despite a huge amount of engineering and investment, could not be profitably produced at scale while meeting performance, efficiency and reliability goals, at least not compared to an equally capable internal drive. Keeping the rear wheel as a hub motor makes more sense, as it was always an option, never standard equipment.
- Deleting the belly pan radiator from the Launch Edition is another cost-saving measure for scaled production. The thing is, it appears that Aptera had already accepted that at least a small conventional radiator with a fan would be needed to support hot weather DC fast charging, so the choice to make that radiator and fan larger saved lots of money compared to having two cooling systems in the vehicle. I believe this is also why Aptera initially tried to delete DCFC from the Launch Edition: The difference between 7KW Level 2 charging and 50KW Level 3 charging would let them keep belly pan cooling! But the preorder holders spoke with a VERY loud voice, and I believe this is the result. Another possible benefit of deleting belly pan cooling is that it may allow Aptera to use lower-cost batteries with slightly less efficient fast-charging curves, leading to further cost savings.
A more useful thing to consider is where Aptera expects vehicle production to break even, where the economies of scale finally allow the price sold to cover the COGS (Cost of Goods Sold). The pitch deck for the US Capital Global $60M raise gives a range, where Aptera is pushing hard to hit the earlier end of that range. All Aptera really needs to do is get close to break even by the time of the IPO, so investors can be assured the IPO funds will go toward profitable production expansion.
What would prevent Aptera from raising prices on preorder holders? Aptera changing the price for preorder holders could theoretically be a PR disaster that causing a rush of cancellations that could threaten the viability of the IPO. However, I think this risk is tiny (zero for stockholders), as most preorder holders know their production slots are still years away, and are more likely willing to wait until they get to the front of the line before making a go/no-go purchase decision, rather than reclaim their $100 or $70 preorder deposit. Which to me means that whoever DOES cancel their preorder will be doing it due to time delays rather than any price increase, even if the price increase is large (>10%).
He’s comparing to the Model 3 because of the price point and size, I believe, not the efficiency.
I kinda expected it to end up around 40k for LE with inflation anyway so while i would obviously love it to be cheaper i am not all that surprised.
Losing AWD is the biggest disappointment for me by far.
Sure no heat pump or belly cooling or iwm sucks but most of the efficiency comes from the aerodynamics anyway. Awd is a big loss for cold weather climates though.
BUT as someone who grew up in an area that regularly got major snow storms sometimes 3ft over night or freezing rain ontop of a fresh 1ft snowfall... Winter tires are more important than AWD.
And I can always take off the wheel pans on the front 2 wheels and toss some chains on.
If it still gets 8mi\kw or better I am still in.
I completely agree, tires are going to be more important than AWD in snow or ice, especially because there's only 3 of them. It's a completely different vehicle, but driving a FWD EV, a LEAF, for the last 6 Midwestern winters was a lot easier the years I ran winter tires than the years I kept the all seasons on, but even the all seasons were mostly fine.
Aptera should have make quality snow tires, or any tires for that matter, from someone like Nokian available in their parts store because they're sure to be some oddball size that's practically impossible to acquire.
Dont be daft, you cant argue the cost of ownership anymore when a used model 3 can be had sub 20k. A very reliable car even for first gen. Literally doesnt matter how efficient the aptera is, if the price isnt a bit lower than starting brand new model 3 price, there will be problems.
Steve, at the Aptera Owners Club RUclips channel says the $39K figure shown in the U.S. Capital Global investor presentations is likely an overestimate, based on early quotes from suppliers that are skeptical of Aptera's prospects. Bids to supply parts (including battery cells) to Aptera are likely to get more competitive as Aptera gets closer to production. If Aptera passes on the resulting cost reductions, the actual pricing could very well end up lower than $39K.
Keep in mind, that $39K figure comes from an investor presentation, so there may be a bias toward showing a higher prospective profit margin. There may also be a bias toward keeping expectations low (and initial cost projections high) with the hope of exceeding those expectations with a lower final price.
There is also potential for substantial "side profits" from the automotive grade solar business that could offset pricing of Aptera vehicles. There's no indication that the investor presentation has taken this possibility into account.
In summary, there is reason to be optimistic that the price could end up substantially less than the $39K listed in the investor presentation, and closer to the $34K that was originally presented for the Launch Edition.
You make some good points here. However, what this essentially means is a lot of the people who signed on and have been patiently waiting for years did so because their initial advertisement was for a vehicle that could be obtained for around $25,000. What that essentially means is many of the customers are not really customers at all. They might become customers down the road once they figure out how to make the vehicle cheaper, but right now their lists do not accurately reflect their true customer base.
I agree we don’t know the true customer base, but that goes both ways. There’s a ton of people who would never put a reservation down on a vehicle that didn’t exist. Many customers likely don’t even know about it yet
I have an Aptera reservation and I definitely want them to succeed but there are more and more concerns arising. You compare the cost of the Aptera to a Tesla Model 3. Big difference between these two cars, mainly, you're comparing a 2 seater to a 5 seater. Efficiency cannot be easily compared between a car that's only capable of moving me and a passenger with one that is able to move me and my whole family. When you consider the application possibilities, the Tesla wins hands down. Not that I want that car, I want the Aptera, but with the recent increase in cost of the Aptera and loss of all wheel drive, it's beginning to look much more questionable..
I expected this because of the recent inflation, but was excited about the $25000 basic Aptera pricepoint when I put down my $100.
Both my Honda Civic and my Toyota Rav4 get 36 MPG at 15,000 miles/year and fuel at $3.20 per gallon, I am paying $1,333 per year for fuel for either vehicle.
A Model 3 costs $1,166.55 for charging to drive 15,000 miles according to this video. Given that information I do not see where the average electric car is beating my SUV or midsized car on fuel economy or total cost of ownership. How green are Teslas? They are not beating my cars in my opinion.
If you’re considering giving up your spot or delaying your reservation for any reason, I’d be thrilled to swap spots with you! I’m currently around 42,000th on the reservation list for Aptera because I somehow only discovered them about a year ago. Since then, I’ve been absolutely obsessed with the vehicle. :)
Let’s exchange a way to communicate. I’m in San Diego and received the Aptera email that mine, #22,000 ish, will be available to purchase in 2025. $40k for front wheel drive has me question this purchase. I would like someone to call and give my spot to someone that would be happy to appreciate the product sooner. I may wait longer for a three wheeled version at the price of $34k. It’s such a bummer that it doesn’t qualify for the tax credit.
Being obsessed with a company (or person) can only end in disappointment. But still happy for you.
Congratulations on gaining consciousness last year after that decade long coma!
Need to worry about pot hole damage to the Aptera wheel skirts or as they call it pants. I still have a concern about the potholes on the roads I drive.
If Apterea ever comes to market, the early innovators will buy, no matter the price. But quite quickly, the reality of the business cycle will set in. At 38k, not many buyers will be there.
This is why I love Tailosive. RUclips needs more healthy doses of perspective
wipe the brown spot off your nose
@@jayp.4381 Speaking of.... that's some Grade-A assholery right there. Congratulations.
@@GullWingInnMoclips it gets pretty annoying seeing shameless simps always being the top comment on any tech channel. No insight, no originality, no relevance. Basically spam so deserves to be called out.
@@ddogg9255 If you get pretty annoyed on the internet, you have a near incurable problem... unless you unplug. Best of luck.
If that's the actual cost, it took me right out of the market. Bummer.
I think it’s smart to also wait it out a bit. I have followed Aptera since their first attempt in the late 2000s as a kid but it being a startup we should expect some hiccups as they get their footing
I signed on and put a deposit down back in 2022. They’ve changed the drivetrain, now the price is going up? Well this isn’t what I signed on for. They can sell them for whatever they want but if it’s more then I’m out! I’m also out because of the drivetrain! Just another company not delivering what they promised. How many more changes before the first delivery?
If it does cost 39k it will fail. It doesn't make any sense to pay that much for a trike. Two seats at a 39k price tag doesn't make sense when I could just jump for something that does a lot more.
All good points Drew, I'm an early supporter and investor with an AWD on order for 3 years, but live where I would only save about $300-$400/year on electricity. But verging on $40k for a FWD which won't work for me, unless I only want to drive it 6-7 months per year, is pushing it. That's 43% more than my originally quoted price, with full solar and AWD. I get the other savings too. But I am retired and don't know if I'll even be able to afford it at that price. Most car companies would kill for a 10% margin, especially a startup EV company, for which most of those still standing are in the red for several years. According to their spreadsheet a 10% margin would put the car closer to the price I was quoted. I get these breakeven exercises having developed them for a startup I worked for, but releasing this spreadsheet as is was a mistake. We all get tied to expectations. I think it is asking a lot for most supporters to just look the other way. I'm still in, but not happy... remember the DC Fast charging issue?
The figures there are manufacturing costs only and don't include wages, real estate costs or insurance, etc. It's after all those that GM or whoever has a 5% margin
I don't think it's an unsprung weight issue with the hub motors, Elaphe knew that was a problem and exhaustively tested for it. This sounds more like a volume commitment issue where Aptera is determined to roll out (minimum) 6k units per year and Elaphe refused to or couldn't commit.
Actually, Aptera is committed to building 10,000 to 20,000 per year from their first factory alone. Their financial guy figured they would break even at 6,000 per year. More is profitable. They currently have reservations for over 47,000.
For about 40k, I’d start to think about a cheaper ev such as en equinox ev, used model 3 or equivalent in range and price and pre order the Gosun solar ev charger.
Yet it will most likely release before the Tesla Roadster. 🤔
I'm fine with $30k, $39k will keep me at the sidelines for a few years.
I hope this isn't the case. I was just going to get the 250 mi range version but for this price I can just go to used Chevy bolt and save a lot of money. Granted and the solar efficiency and the insurance would save a lot of money but not $10,000 worth.
I think you are absolutely correct on your pricing video!
I’ve already invested in Aptera. I’m in for the long haul. I want to buy a Telo Truck too.
Me too!
@@martinutr Telo would work for me.
Using 35 cents per kWh is insanely high. The average in the US is 12.7 cents. If you want to make an argument specifically for people in California then I guess that’s fine. And that’s not even off-peak
Unfortunately, if that's the case, I'm out... for a two-seater?? ... 40 grand... not worth it. Especially now that it's not awd... I'm better off getting the rwd tesla for basically the same price AND it's proven.
Agreed. Not sure how this video was meant to sell us on aptera?!?
If you’re that bothered by a two seater you were never “in”
@@TailosiveEV What a horrible out of touch comment... Not everyone has your money apparently Drew...
If you don’t want your spot, I’m down to take it! I’m currently at about 42,000 and am looking to get an earlier spot :)
I don't think it's fair to say that we were never "in". I consider myself a fairly loyal Aptera fan. I'm about 11,000 on the reservation list, and I'm an investor. I really wanted an Aptera. I think I can definitely make a two seater work, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't find more use out of it if it had more seats. I do have a family and I planned to use the Aptera for those trips where I only have two or less passengers, which is about 80% of my trips, and use the family car for everything else. But, that isn't to say that it wouldn't be more convenient to have a car that I can put the whole family in. It would be more convenient and I'd probably get a bit more use out of that car. The two seater was a disadvantage that I was willing to live with to get a good, innovative, low cost EV. Aptera no longer looks to be a low cost EV. For what it is 40k seems extraordinarily high. Especially considering no tax credit. I just cannot justify that. The napkin math you're doing doesn't really apply to me either. I drive less than 5k miles a year. I don't think I'd ever make up the cost difference.
If that really is the cost, and they've known that for the last several months, then it also seems quite deceptive. We've all seen Chris and Steve on the news advertising a much lower price point that they apparently knew wasn't really true.
Between this and the switch to FWD, I'm out. Based on this price, I also don't have a lot of confidence in the success of the company. If I were able to, I'd sell my shares. Fortunately, it's not a lot of stock, so I guess I won't be out too much.
I'm hoping that I'm just overreacting. A lot of bad news has been leaked surrounding Aptera, and they really haven't responded to any of it yet. I'm willing to see what they have to say first. Hopefully, they address the rumor mill in detail in their July update.
Your math sounds about right but it feels like clutching at straws to justify it which I understand as we all want to see the Aptera be successfull. Its definitely concerning to see so many compromises so late in the game...
Hmm I was hoping after everything,we would get lucky under 30. I will wait and see.
I'm good with the price. The two questions I have are whether or not I can fit and what the service situation will be like. I'm not that skilled at car repair and my neck of the woods doesn't seem to have any independent shops that work on EVs. Still I appreciate the car's efficiency and the possibility that I might be able to cover all my driving on solar energy. I'd like to see this company succeed.
It would be bad business for investors, image and reservation holders if they price it at $39k. It is not hub drive, not AWD, and if the other claims you are stating if reduced battery storage/solar/etc, it would be a huge disservice compared to the current Tesla reduced costs
I did a quick analysis of the lifetime cost savings given the high efficiency and the solar. I made some careful guesses about how much home charging is done vs. charging station and used national averages for the electricity costs for both. Let's say you drive 300k miles by charging at home (16 cents/kWh), and an additional 10k miles using a Level 3 charger (40 cents/kWh). A car that gets 4 miles on 1 kWh will use $13,000 of electricity over that distance. Let's say over a 10 year period that an Aptera gets 30k miles from solar (less than 10 miles/day). Its cost for the same distance traveled would be about $5200. It's not a huge savings, but it does mean that when you compare the price of an Aptera with another car, you can safely say that it is at least $7000 less to operate over the lifetime distance. The difference would be substantially more in some areas, where the cost of home electricity is more like 25 cents/kWh. Even more true for a sunny area where you might average 20 miles/day solar. And the longer you own it and the more miles you drive, the more the savings. (Original posted on Aptera Owners Club Aug 2).
Love the Aptera!
If someone damages the in hub wheel motor driving over a giant deep pothole, I wonder how much it will cost to repair or replace the in hub wheel motor and the wheel together? And how long of a waiting day for the repair job to be finished? And where do people take their Aptera for a regular maintenance service check-up?
Convenience is king! To fully charge overnight from any outlet anywhere is priceless.
Not fully. A 120 volt plug will give you about 13 miles of added range per hour. Fully charging the 40kWh battery will take about 31 hours Still, if you get home at 6:00 PM and leave at 8:00 AM, that's more than 180 miles overnight.
@@robertkirchner7981 You're only assuming 1.3kw, which is 12 amps from a 120 volt outlet, which yes could be pulled from basically any outlet, but a lot of 120 volt circuits support 20 amps. I got 16 amp EVSE for my LEAF which is 1.8kw. That would give you more like 18 miles added range per hour and a full charge time of just over 22 hours and closer to 250 miles per night on the Aptera. Still not full, but 250 miles is a lot to drive every day.
35 c/kwh that’s crazy, that’s not fair at all. Ur perspective is way skewed being in CA.
You can also charge a model 3 from a 110 outlet
As long as it launches
This thing is DOA... No way it can complete against the Model 3 and Model 2...
I would really like to know if they begin sales, would there be plans to cover sales all of US, aka all of the territories (living on Guam 🇬🇺 currently). Might be a far cry but our tropical weather would be perfect for a solar EV.
I hope so but shipping would be quite expensive.
I've heard Guam is the first market they intend to capture.
Shouldn't they sell them at as loss until they achieve manufacturing efficiency. It seems that is what every other manufacturer does.
@@smeschia Major manufacturers with income streams from selling gas powered cars can afford to do that. Startups, not so much.
@@smeschia It depends on how much spare money they have, they need to have enough money to pay their bills and buy a lot of new expensive equipment.
A hope... get the launch edition then in the future maybe upgrade from a 400mi battery to 600mi, 1000mi and beyond.
Aptera's future lies in being a regional airline replacement via being a long range robotaxi using Tesla's FSD.
That's insane for what it is. A Tesla Model 3 is cheaper and the Model 2 will be even cheaper than that.
But then there are those in a situation like mine where it's the absolute cost and not ultimate realitive value. $25k was my top number that I thought I could stretch to $29500 as first I saw it. I'm retired and will be a very low milage driver so there isn't much advantage for me in total miles. $40k simply takes me out of the market as I likely won't live long enough to see the return. Let alone be able to purchase to begin with. Anyone want to buy my approx. deposit number (26,000 +-)?
The smart money EV purchase trend is to buy used at HUGE discounts.
I agree with all the price with the current economic situation. 40k is a lot, I can get a 15k used tesla and slap some panels on with open source software.
I live in Texas, so... very sunny. I also have free electricity on the weekends, so... free charging! And yes, my electric company has suggested I charge my car on the weekend because we have massive wind farms and my commute is only 10 minutes. Aptera is going to save me quite a lot of money overall.
I made my 100 buck deposit ages ago. But I live in NZ. Please tell me there will be a right-hand drive?
I can trade up from P3D.
02:00 -- "tricky predicament that they find themselves in" ??? They've been at it since 2006. How long does it take to find oneself in a _predicament_ ???
If you look at TCO compared to a model 3, we should also include the resale value.
That is almost impossible nowadays, but in 8 years' time, assuming new purchases, it will be a major factor.
For the time being, I have to wait longer in Europe, so I maintain my reservation and wait patiently... :-)
Paying 6 cents a kwh flat fee to charge at home
I wish I'm at 35 cents unless I use too much
My summer rate (May - August) for me is $0.13/kWh.
Winter (rest of the year) is $0.06 kWh at night and $0.09 kWh in the day.
Northern Missouri area.
My MY LR costs less than $10 to charge. Will be even less once my solar and battery system is purchased and installed.
its hard to compare the aptera to other evs, with the benefits, youre also only able to transport 2 people.
Quibbling about the price seems ludicrous. Most early adopters of a new product are willing to pay for being first. Launch Edition vehicles might be anywhere from $33,000-39,500. But getting those on the road are worth tons of marketing $$$ to Aptera.
No air between sentences is giving me a head spin
I will reserve judgment until the Aptera is actually available and the features it is available with. I sure hope it comes with V2H charging.
Love the Optimistic view!
In Equinox EV 1LT we trust
Why assume only 2 KWh per day of solar charging?
Not everyone gets maximum sun exposure
Yeah too much but if they get enough early adopters it could lead to lower prices
Can Aptera avoid the mandatory destination fee that 4 wheeled vehicles charge, if you pick up from Carlsbad?
They have already said you could pick yours up in CA.
@SteveBueche1027 some companies will still charge you a destination fee even if you come pick it up, apparently by law.
IDK why people panic over these things. This BOM is for the 40Kw version which goes further than most people need. The 24kW or so version will be like 2K cheaper (36K). Costs will fall like 10% pretty fast at scale. Anyone who really wants a 31K Aptera will just have to wait an extra 2 years. That's nothing in the context of cars
An extra 2 years from when though? They keep moving production.
In your comparison if you didn't touch on the fact that the M3 is a more versatile family sedan I was going to point that out. In all reality there's no comparison between these two. In a world of a two car household one could own an Aptera for the efficiency and getting around town and that occasional 1 person to 2 person getaway and have the M3 for that same 1 or 2 person getaway or family getaway when you need more storage for more stuff you're hauling on the trip.
I'm out because price still think great car
Your electricity cost is much higher than mine, which is only .12 per kwh. That brings any savings way down. And if you have solar on your roof, where it belongs, the whole thing disappears. But back to the main subject, $39k is absurd for a three wheeler. You can buy a Nissan Leaf for less than $30k, and it's a four wheel actual car that doesn't require a special license, not to mention four seats etc. And, the Aptera price estimates keep going up while the other EV's keep going down. And that's not even considering the Chinese EV's, which will be available to most of the world at a fraction of the price. Aptera is completely doomed. And that's a good thing because they are bringing EV's into disrepute with their impractical aspects and lack of actual production.
i would love to see this type of vehicle on the road however this vehicle is way over priced for what it is. it has no service centers and this will be a major issue... this company/product is no way close to any of the companies you just mention....i do not see how they will make it
I like the right to repair.
I think you are correct this vehicle is for enthusiast. What happens after all the enthusiast get one? Isn’t that related to decreased EV demand?
40k for something Aptera an EV startup feels like a gamble. I think your are the few people who can afford it.
Please do more videos about money. I would love to see the annual cost of ownership of your Tesla. I also love to see everyone comparing notes on the podcast .
I see another arcimoto in apteras future.
I plan on driving my Aptera as much as possible even if I am retired.
Most people may not need more than 2 seats most days. But they think they do. And people need cars that can do everything they need. For instance we carry 4 people often. Can’t fit 3 or more in it. So no thought.
Aptera should gouge the first 10 thousand customers and then set up a factory in Mexico and China. This vehicle only makes sense at $20,000 or less. Simple
If you want a billion-dollar company, you need to make billion-dollar decisions.
You make Fisker decisions.
Finally someone with a brain
Sort of like the Cybertruck Founder’s Edition?
I’m sticking with my launch edition. Too many benefits that outweigh the potential higher cost. Also, as I recall Accelerators get $1,000 off MSRP :-)
And many will get a 5% discount as well.
Are baby seats fine in aptera? Life hit this year and now not sure if I can go with aptera
Depends on which state you drive in. Some don't allow child seats in any autocycle. A few require helmuts for young riders. Check the DMV in your state.
Nice points and great napkin math!!
or you could buy used diesel/gas/electric smart car for 3000$. this is so dumb imo. 40g for 2 door cart... like why????
08/08/2024 coming soon!
Amen
Just do a search for US-market EVs with a range of 400+ miles, and look at how much they cost. I see Mercedes EQS, Rivian R1T and R1S; Tesla Model S; Lucid Air, and the Chevy Silverado EV. The Fisker Ocean apparently had a model with a 400+ mile range, but , umm ... yeah.
Lol for one - if you do a search on them, you will find that they can fit more than 2 people. Even the expensive Rivian R1S is around 90K for 410 miles but it can fit 7 people! If we compare that to Aptera - you would need over 3 Apteras to carry the same amount of people. At 40K a piece that would be over 120K dollars! You are comparing apples to oranges here. There are e-bikes that can do 70 miles and are under 2.5 K doesn’t mean that an e-bike is the cheaper option.
I'll probably keep my Model 3 and get an Aptera to rent out on Turo.
The funny thing about cars are that they do in fact sit outside doing nothing most of the time.
Net present value. Either way, too rich for my blood.
This car is more preannounced than the Cybertruck
Agreed. It seems they are following the Tesla model in all the worst ways of promises that fall way short.
And the Rivian model, and the ford model, and the lucid model, and the Toyota model. Wait maybe it’s just difficult and challenging to mass produce vehicles affordably?
Exactly
@@TailosiveEVdifficult schmifficult if it's the same cost as a model 3 I ain't getting one anymore 😂
@@stephensullivan1011same I mean where'd an the objectivity gone?
Working hard to justify aptera!!!
looks cool but I'm not counting this chicken until it actually hatches.
Question is, are you getting one?
Good luck!!!