For the past 5 years or so I've been slowly picking up models to finish the metal dwarf army I could never afford in 6th edition as a kid. Beyond excited to finally start building that list for them.
Worth calling out: I stopped fantasy when I was about 15. I am turning 40. When I got back into Warhammer in 2016 I was quite upset that rank and file was gone. I have gotten used to aos and quite like it but man am I so excited by this. I would consider myself a new player. This is gonna be my mid life crisis, return to childhood moment.
Near identical story for me. Played 4th edition when I was 11-14. And bloody loved it. I’m 42 now and a few years back I wandered into a GW store to see what was going on these days and was devastated to learn the game I loved was gone. I tried looking into AoS, watched a bunch of battle reports and even half heartedly collected a few Slaves to Darkness because they seemed closest to what I remembered, but honestly I didn’t like the overall AoS aesthetic, lore or any of it… It all seemed so overblown and was trying too hard. I just wanted “normal” fantasy back, with Wood Elves and Empire and Night Goblins and orcs, blocks of knights and bouncing cannonballs. The whole thing that drew me in to begin with was two grand armies ranked up and facing off with artillery and archers and whatnot, and AoS never recreated that vibe in me. So here I am, nearly 30 years later, spending my entire weekend building stepped hills, ponds and ruins after raiding hobbycraft. You bloody got me GW. I’m back in.
"This is gonna be my mid life crisis, return to childhood moment." It already is for me just getting excited about it. And now that I've got my models out and my youngest has seen them I have to perform a 'Dwarf expedition' most nights with them adventuring around the dining table meeting goblins, trolls and dragons. They only came out of the loft for me to sell them, I didn't know what was going to happen...
1:13:33 - by 'an off-white Christmas' I think they're referring to bone (an off-white colour) so perhaps the same article, but for Tomb Kings? Or further Tomb King reveals?
47:51 Athel Loren and Bretonnia fought against beastmen and the orcs from Massif Orcal together. Isn't there also that insinuation that the Fey Enchantress is half-elf or something as well? But also the dryads kidnapped Bretonnian children and the Bretonnians cut down their trees, so the option of a tentative alliance makes sense. The Bretonnians trade with Karak Zhiflin and the other holds along the Grey Mountains, so it stands to reason they may fight together against a common threat, but those dwarfs hold grudges and that causes friction.
I love DOW and ROR. As someone who loves the painting aspect of the hobby, it was nice to break up the monotony of painting one type of army to do another. Also it's a fantasy game and most fantasy settings have different races all living together (the fellowship of the ring for example). I also think it's a good way to sell new models. Make a super cool little unit or character and most people can add them to their army. I'm all for it, and I also think in a wargame it's thematic because in real history allies and mercenaries were a huge part of warfare.
Best use of allies is using adjacent armies that you already have. If you have a Bretonnian army and then start to build an Empire army, you can throw in a few common Bretonnian units until you get the Empire fleshed out.
Great commentary guys, I’m very excited about building a bretonnian army when the game drops. While I get why you don’t like the allies idea from a tournament perspective, it’s actually really good from a collecting/production meta perspective. It means that I can build & paint my first 500 of bretonnians and play with them straight away by allying them into my empire army, then when my bretonnians get to 1500 I can flip it around and pad them out with my empire minis until I’ve got enough stuff to run the full 2K of bretonnians. I’ve been painting a Soulblight army for aos this year and it’s literally taken me 11 months to get a 2000pt army on the table, being able to get my new models on the table asap is a really good thing to keep my motivation high. I’m also going to pick you up on ‘netlisting’, the reason why narrative gamers hate netlisting is because it’s a sign that my opponent is not playing for the same reasons I am. If you’re selecting your army & units purely because some tournament pro told you it’s strong rather than because it’s thematic or an army that you love, it’s a sign that I’m probably in for a frustrating game because you’re just trying to face stomp me rather than create a fun, collaborative hobby experience grounded in the lore. It’s also the list building equivalent of playing a game where half a dozen watchers are hanging round the table giving your opponent advice on how to beat you, I want to play my opponent, not art of war’s latest tier list.
Bretonnia’s 6th edition army book gave them a free BSB upgrade, but it was compulsory that they have a BSB whereas it was technically optional for other armies. Will be interesting to see if it’s just Bretonnia that still gets the free BSB, or if that’s something that applies to all armies now, given everyone always took one anyway.
Yes - this one did. I pointed it out as Rob and Val were wondering if it was something new all armies would get in Old World, but I think it’s just a callback to Bretonnia’s old rules.
Armies of Infamy sounds like alternate rules that used to sometimes be on named characters, like Louen Leoncour allowing more Grail Knights but not allowing peasants. I def think it not being linked to named characters but instead just "Here's options" should be more fun for everyone
This made me go back and have a look at my old 5th/6th edition army books. In the back section there are thematic armies. Like in VC is a blood dragon men at arms, sort of like a dark Bretonnia or a dwarf Engineer Expedition. These armies where unofficial and only for fun, so happy that armies of infamy brings this element to the game.
how about availablity of the old models for the core factions except TK and Bretonnia? Will they be available on the day of the release? What do you think on that?
The only fair answer is I have no idea. Haven't heard a word on this. One part of me feels like they'll obviously release the other core factions, but then the other part says - that seems like more than they could handle. So honestly no idea. Just white knuckling with everyone else and hoping for the best.
Content idea: Tier list for Dukes? Grand old Duke of York Prince Andrew Duke of York Duke Ellington Daisy Dukes Thin white Duke (aka David Bowie) Duke of Wellington (Any more Dukes)
@@SquareBasedOldWorld S: Bowie, Ellington A: Daisy Duke B: wellington C Grand old Duke of York (seems a bit pointless) all other royal dukes in this tier… Bin tier: Andrew
@@adamsboringvids "Grand old Duke of York (seems a bit pointless)" One Duke and 10,000 stubborn Men at Arms could be a very strong build. Just need to be careful they don't get distracted by any hills on the board.
I've got quite a few older novels from the 00's set in the time period of Warhammer: The Old World or earlier time periods and they all have "Time of Legend" on the cover to indicate it's not set around the WFB sort of era.
I never thought we would see such a hobbyist forward game design for an army vs army game from gw. I had almost forgotten how much stuff like 40K has fallen when comes to hobby options. This is probly the most exciting part of the tow for me!
Louen was rereleased after the world ended as a finecast made to order. This one definitely had an alternative fully helmed head so you could use it as the king or as a normal lord. (I’m guessing the original metal model had the dual head too).
Also Netlisting when it's advice is great. Like helping understand what a good number for a unit is based on experience. So that before you drop 500 eurodollars on a unit of 40 metal vintage '93 High Elf Swordmasters you might discover that just taking 10 is actually a more effective way to utilize the unit. You can still get those 40 but at least you know what you are getting into. Good tactics articles are not descriptive, not prescriptive. So not 'don't take this' but rather, this is their role, this is how to optimize them for that role, this is another unit that does this really well.
Reminds me of MESBG where you have your core army lists which you can ally with other forces bit sometime lose the army bonus or even worse when allying with armies which „just dont make sense“ narrative/ lore - wise. Also: in MESBG there are „legendary legions“ - which are alterations of the „core forces“. Those give you specific bonuses but restric you in other ways e.g. „you can‘t take unit x“ which is maybe how armies of infamy might work… Anyway - super excited :D
List building is one of my favourite things in wargaming, its why I love Kingdom Death Monster so much, gear building and designing layouts for characters is absolutely amazing.. My ADHD kicks in hyperfocus mode and I will spend every moment I have to myself going though options its just a joy, then you test them against your opponents best and the battle of wits and wills commences.
It says there's NO almanack next Monday, but "tune in on the 26th for an off white Christmas" which is presumably the Tomb Kings range reveal. Maybe a date as well but specifically no almanack.
They could also really easily make 'Start Collecting Kits' Start Collecting: Grand Army of Brettonia: - 1 Baron - 1 Box of Knights of the Realm - 1 Box of Peasants Slap a 20% discount on it, bundle in the army rules as a wee booklet and boom; Starter product
January 20th is the weekend of LVO, the Las Vegas Open. Do you think they’ll have any launch product or event at LVO? That would be quite interesting if they did.
Great show guys, Warhammer was a big part of my childhood and Im looking forward to collecting a big Empire army with ally Dwarfs and mercenary Ogres and maybe some halflings too. That was my holy grail dream army as a kid that i never got to do being a poor kid. cant wait :)
So incredibly pumped for returning to the Old World. Mercenaries/Allies is a huge win for me, always loved the idea of bringing odd units of other factions into my lists. Can be incredibly thematic.
I’m so hyped for potential dogs of war and allies. Been reading the gotrek and felix books the last couple years and would love to see the characters from that get updated models that are then playable in game!
I'm genuinely so excited for this, the allies and mercenaries stuff couldn't be more perfect for my planned Dwarf force: A wandering clan trying to reclaim their hold, led by a Dwarf Lord who until very recently was but a lesser prince who led a mercenary band.
Argh!! I went to bed expecting the show to be on tonight not realising it was back to back Emergency Podcast Episodes!!!! Having said that I really like how they are doing army building. Gives way more guidance to players, new and old, different ways to play with armies of infamy and can be adjusted for each grand army to suit what works best for that army!! I’m impressed!! And a free BSB for Bret’s rather than you have to take one plus your general. Great stuff!!!
Great discussion as always guys. The armies of infamy inclusion is going to potentially bring back one of the best things about 6th - narrative driven alt lists. Maybe a few years down the line they say ‘ok we’re going to do a siege of Praag campaign! You got your Chaos army book but here’s a new campaign book and it’s got a list for marauder coastal raiders, or new special characters to try.’ Maybe they have White Dwarf support or big summer campaigns you can join in on. An evolving narrative told through the steady release of books. Maybe white dwarf will be able to run fun left field fun infamy lists - here’s a list for Hobgoblin Khanate based on a twist of the Chaos Dwarf grand army. The possibilities are endless!
It looks like the allies are going to be pretty limited. For example the Bretonnians only have 4 potential allies and 2 of them are "Suspicious". Also, the Bretonnians and Wood Elves have come to each other's aid many times.
I regret using my particular example lol. Also remember I'm talking about playing with strangers: pick up games and events. For playing a planned game or building a fun thematic army - absolutely nothing wrong with them. It's just we've seen this movie before and games without restriction just trend towards the most efficient choices, which often does not match the narrarive foundation everything is built on
Man your prediction for release date seems to have some backing behind it. I’m backing the horse that is the square based podcast. Also when are we having a watch along/live react to the classics “a knights tale” and Brendan Fraser’s masterpiece “the mummy” to get us hyped for Bret’s and TK??
So am i misremembering or is it new that the price of a knightly virtue doesn't come out of magic item budget for the hero/lord? Virtue of the Knightly Temper will be great with a big magic bonker
Mostly commenting so Val has to answer, but thanks again for the fun hype! Also personally for me who sometimes can be set in my ways the explanation Rob had for Net-Lists was very thought provoking and good for me to hear Looking forward to more episodes :D
Hello there guys! Shows and commentary are super fun and hope to be seeing much more coming the imminent release of TOW and onwards. I wanted to hear your opinions - do you think the Bretonnian line of new models is completely out now? Do you think we might get something right after launch, or something down the line like a refresh of a model or two in several months after release, or we are going to have to wait for a few years until all of the other factions have had their time in the sun?
I think it's likely we've seen everything for Brets for now. But we really don't know how they're going to be actually rolling things out. Maybe there will be campaign books that are units over time? Or just random white dwarf releases like the old days. Gonna be exciting to see how it evolvea. However! It sure does feel pretty safe to assume that the Bretonnian range is what it is at this point.
Hyppogryph: I do not believe two instances of heavy armor will stack, regardless of source. The fact they specifically called it heavy armor makes me think they did so on purpose so you knew they wouldn't stack.... however a Lady on a Hyppogryph will gain the benefits of heavy armor even though she doesn't have it normally. And Ally thought just for Val. Follow my logic here for a second: a) The bretonian army list is called a Grand Army Composition. b) the wood elf army list is called a Grand Army Composition. c) The bretonia g.a.c. can take 500 pts worth of wood elf g.a.c. d) the wood elves are likely be allowed to take 25% of allies. This is straight up a part of the wood elf Grand Army Composition. e) Val gets sad when your bretonian's wood elf allies brought 125 pts of Dark elf allies of their own. (Obviously I could be wrong on this, but based on the rules Ive seen it seems possible)
I played Mordheim when it was first released and that was my only dip into Warhammer Fantasy as I was heavy into my Tyranids at that time. Now, I'm much more experienced with my tabletop gaming that seeing this kind of depth return again is such a treat. I cannot believe this will be here soon as well. Such exciting times ahead and, if GW just keeps on this path, could give them some much needed "street cred" for bring something like this back and in an exciting form, if that makes any sense. 👍
I already have a complete bretonnia army and a tomb kings including setta the king of Breton liche priests bone giants the ark grail knights a trebuchet questing knights don’t even get me get started in high elves and chaos
What do you guys think are happening to Grail Reliquae or The Green Knight? I guess TGK is a named character so maybe we won’t see him (would be unfortunate), but Grail Reliquae was a special choice and isn’t listed under the Special troop choices. Maybe they will be an upgrade option.
I’m very happy about this. Should provide for themed armies and allow us Grognards the fun of using models from different factions in our lists. On initial read the combo of minimum point spends plus max’s for certain unit choices is excellent. Precisely what the parts of the community ust to use in competition packs in 8th to limit the Tools…sorry, multiple unit selection of same good thing. I spent many hours as a young thing creating lists in 3rd Ed using the first Warhammer Armies book to create lists using Mercenaries and Allied contingents so the new rules allowing this is just awesome to me. These options were also a thing in WAB. The Bret characters look very cool and I’m especially happy to see a much needed super hero Baron option and very happy about options to run knights on foot.
"I spent many hours as a young thing creating lists in 3rd Ed using the first Warhammer Armies book to create lists using Mercenaries and Allied contingents so the new rules allowing this is just awesome to me." Me too. I still don't think they're going to allow me to field a unit of allied Chaos Dwarfs along with a bazooka and a mortar in my Chaos Army though.
I cant wait for the old world. I had an army (Bretonnia, which my parents thankfully kept for me!) And i have just finished painting all those extremely badly put together peasants and now im moving onto the Knights. I missed out on actually playing the game as i was a touch too young to get the rules but many a day did me and my mate (who still has his dwarfs!) spend round my parents dining room table sticking everything together then lining everything up on the carpet in the hallway 😂. I just want to get stuff chucked on bases already and damn GW just get us some bases released to buy
@SquareBasedOldWorld yeah im probably going to pick some up! I've got 90 skinks and around 50 peasants at minimum which need rebasing. Need a bulk discount 😅
Thanks for all the coverage guys! I started warhammer in 4th ed. Left during 8th. Didn’t like AoS. I’m super stoked about this. I’m currently assembling an Estalian army using 3d prints and Wargames Atlantic figures. I really think this is going to be awesome. I was skeptical at first but you guys have brought me around.
Boxing Day - Christmas for the staff. The lairds and ladies would have their Christmas on the 25th which meant that the cooks and maids and butlers and whatnot had to work that day, providing for the nobs. The day after, the staff got the day off, they’d box up leftovers from the Xmas day feast. And received gifts, often in the form of hand me down clothes.
@@SquareBasedOldWorld Fresh new units with modern sculpts! It could almost be how War Cry is to AOS. You add in these bands that have minor heroes and a few cool abilities. We shall see!!!!
I recently saw the film "Medieval" on Netflix and am really hoping the War Wagon comes back. If it does I will be doing an Empire Army based on Jan Zizka's peasant rebellions in Bohemia. That said, I have always wanted a wood Elf army (never got around to it) but the old models suck balls. If there is no War Wagon rules, it will be Bretonnian.
War wagons would be a slam dunk kit. Never really understood the whole 'got replaced by the stream tank" thing when there's only like 8 of those. GW loves making things comically rare in these vast settings. I feel the same way about chapters of 1000 space marines in a galaxy with trillions and trillions of people
Love the pseudo force org chart/classic points % restrictions Great way of allowing armies to have a very limited number of potentially problematic units (looking at you WS 7, 7 wound, potential 1+ save HippoDuke) while preserving the thematic essence of the force Tight ally restrictions are a big + as well From just what's been revealed so far the rest of GW's systems are getting schooled oh how to write a ruleset that doesn't devolve into wacky ass flavor of the balance patch spam We will see... but for now I am ever increasingly excited and optimistic
Here’s a dumb question. Why would you spend 10 points on a unit leader when the only bonus on the warscroll is +1A (not men at arms or grail knights, other factions)
Much like rules seem to be taken from Ancient Battles, Allies seems to be taken straight from the Middle-Earth Strategy Battle Game. Which is very good, as that's a great rules system that is very good at adapting well-loved characters and facets of civilisations into fun wargaming rules. Also Val, you can't see Wood Elves with Brettonia?!? They are literally their closest neighbours!
I'm loving the proposed army comp rules, just a little nervous that multi-faction armies are gonna wind up way overpowered/synergized vs "pure"/single faction armies.. I'm really loving that the army comp rules gives players a reason to consider buying units not in their main army collections. Something seems just so blasphemous that I might be able to add a unit of Dwarfs into an Elves list...
I also like that Orcas eat billionaires. And now I'm committed to this show forever. Billionaire stew.. yum! Keep up the great work folks! Cheers and bring on the trees.. erm wood elves!!
I thought Boxing Day was about going out in the street and starting an impromptu boxing match with members of the public?! No wonder I keep getting arrested. I feel right daft now.
Love all the comments on the min-maxing elements taking a back seat to thematic play. It really should never be a hero spam game. If the standard units are not making the plays, it quickly turns into a heroquestian, dice bucket, face smash.
Ohhhhh I get the sense that there will be some of that. But I also think it needs to be a balance to make the model count accessible. You need some points dense units if you don't want to be painting endless duders
@@SquareBasedOldWorld Yeah it always gona come down to the details. Im pretty impressed so far though, with some some very atypical GW behaviour. Hope it continues.
I love this update but I don't think letting people take mercenaries from other factions isn't going to work out well in competitive play. Imagine playing Wood Elves and getting to take 500pts of waywatchers as rare and then take another 400pts of sisters of avelorn. I am afraid people will just combine the most broken elements of multiple armies and create skew lists. Outside of competitive play though I love this.
I am writing an army list using the RUclips army book to invade the Twitch Chat and install Val onto the Square throne. I am taking 3000 points in a 2000 points game because Twitch Chat must fall. Long enough has Twitch chat supremacy reigned, the time of House Heffelfinger has come!!!
I've never found myself bound to what the tournment scene is doing in terms of points, I've played lots of slowly growing campaign/league systems with a starting total of 1000 points and extremely restrictive army lists but my preference for a stand alone game is 5k per side. I've played really big games multiple 10-12k armies on each team, but a good most of the day game of Warhammer with some very extreme options in lists and a great solid battleline is at 5k, that's def my go to.. I always build and design new armies with the idea of fielding various 5k armies with that army. I've also never noticed a tendacy to purely follow the Tournment scence, though the allies thing will likely be banned from said scene for balance, but while I imagine internet forums might loudly talk about competition scenes that's never been true in stores or around gaming clubs. At least in my 30 years of playing as antidotal experience which counts for very little. :p
@@SquareBasedOldWorld What is this Soccer you speak of? Oh you mean football, the game that involves a ball and your foot! 10x5' is my go to, bigger games 12 or 15 foot by 5.. 5k for a horde army on 10x5 can get a little close, but for most armies its fine. Not sure where I'm planning to play old world right now, I'm just excited its returning I have thought too much about actually tabling it.
What army are you most excited to build in The Old World? Do you think the Armies of Infamy are a good or bad thing?
I want to build dwarfs and I think armies of infamy is meh I think that it's just a thing that most people aren't gonna use
I’m buying that tomb kings box and am gonna try the game😁
For the past 5 years or so I've been slowly picking up models to finish the metal dwarf army I could never afford in 6th edition as a kid. Beyond excited to finally start building that list for them.
More info less comedy!!!!
Dwarfs!😊
As I rebuild my old Dark Elves army, I can’t help but think I’m now Square Based and Dread Pilled
That's a winner comment right there
eh, don't you worry they won't be supported?
What other armies aren't being supported? I've got 4000 points of dark elves on a shelf :( @@igsttef6294
Worth calling out:
I stopped fantasy when I was about 15. I am turning 40. When I got back into Warhammer in 2016 I was quite upset that rank and file was gone. I have gotten used to aos and quite like it but man am I so excited by this.
I would consider myself a new player. This is gonna be my mid life crisis, return to childhood moment.
I love "this is going to be my midlife crisis"
Near identical story for me. Played 4th edition when I was 11-14. And bloody loved it.
I’m 42 now and a few years back I wandered into a GW store to see what was going on these days and was devastated to learn the game I loved was gone. I tried looking into AoS, watched a bunch of battle reports and even half heartedly collected a few Slaves to Darkness because they seemed closest to what I remembered, but honestly I didn’t like the overall AoS aesthetic, lore or any of it… It all seemed so overblown and was trying too hard. I just wanted “normal” fantasy back, with Wood Elves and Empire and Night Goblins and orcs, blocks of knights and bouncing cannonballs. The whole thing that drew me in to begin with was two grand armies ranked up and facing off with artillery and archers and whatnot, and AoS never recreated that vibe in me.
So here I am, nearly 30 years later, spending my entire weekend building stepped hills, ponds and ruins after raiding hobbycraft. You bloody got me GW. I’m back in.
"This is gonna be my mid life crisis, return to childhood moment."
It already is for me just getting excited about it. And now that I've got my models out and my youngest has seen them I have to perform a 'Dwarf expedition' most nights with them adventuring around the dining table meeting goblins, trolls and dragons.
They only came out of the loft for me to sell them, I didn't know what was going to happen...
Same. Like or loathe AoS, you have to admit it wasn't great timing with Total War getting so many of us oldies interested again
1:13:33 - by 'an off-white Christmas' I think they're referring to bone (an off-white colour) so perhaps the same article, but for Tomb Kings? Or further Tomb King reveals?
47:51 Athel Loren and Bretonnia fought against beastmen and the orcs from Massif Orcal together. Isn't there also that insinuation that the Fey Enchantress is half-elf or something as well? But also the dryads kidnapped Bretonnian children and the Bretonnians cut down their trees, so the option of a tentative alliance makes sense. The Bretonnians trade with Karak Zhiflin and the other holds along the Grey Mountains, so it stands to reason they may fight together against a common threat, but those dwarfs hold grudges and that causes friction.
I'm so excited to deploy my beastmen in the old world. Will I lose every battle? Yes. Will it be awesome? Also yes!
Who knows maybe your goats will be absolutely GOATed (I’m sorry but the pun was too good to avoid)
Hey beastmen stocks are up on every rules review right now. Seems like its the perfect time for me to get with the herd
Alternative interpretation: Off-white (bone) might be referencing the Grand Army sheet for Tomb Kings.
I love DOW and ROR. As someone who loves the painting aspect of the hobby, it was nice to break up the monotony of painting one type of army to do another. Also it's a fantasy game and most fantasy settings have different races all living together (the fellowship of the ring for example). I also think it's a good way to sell new models. Make a super cool little unit or character and most people can add them to their army. I'm all for it, and I also think in a wargame it's thematic because in real history allies and mercenaries were a huge part of warfare.
Best use of allies is using adjacent armies that you already have. If you have a Bretonnian army and then start to build an Empire army, you can throw in a few common Bretonnian units until you get the Empire fleshed out.
Im thinking Bretonnian knights with woodelf archers
Great commentary guys, I’m very excited about building a bretonnian army when the game drops. While I get why you don’t like the allies idea from a tournament perspective, it’s actually really good from a collecting/production meta perspective. It means that I can build & paint my first 500 of bretonnians and play with them straight away by allying them into my empire army, then when my bretonnians get to 1500 I can flip it around and pad them out with my empire minis until I’ve got enough stuff to run the full 2K of bretonnians.
I’ve been painting a Soulblight army for aos this year and it’s literally taken me 11 months to get a 2000pt army on the table, being able to get my new models on the table asap is a really good thing to keep my motivation high.
I’m also going to pick you up on ‘netlisting’, the reason why narrative gamers hate netlisting is because it’s a sign that my opponent is not playing for the same reasons I am. If you’re selecting your army & units purely because some tournament pro told you it’s strong rather than because it’s thematic or an army that you love, it’s a sign that I’m probably in for a frustrating game because you’re just trying to face stomp me rather than create a fun, collaborative hobby experience grounded in the lore. It’s also the list building equivalent of playing a game where half a dozen watchers are hanging round the table giving your opponent advice on how to beat you, I want to play my opponent, not art of war’s latest tier list.
Bretonnia’s 6th edition army book gave them a free BSB upgrade, but it was compulsory that they have a BSB whereas it was technically optional for other armies. Will be interesting to see if it’s just Bretonnia that still gets the free BSB, or if that’s something that applies to all armies now, given everyone always took one anyway.
Hah - what a strange callback!
One of the articles maybe it was this one said if you take a paladin you get a fre BsB upgrade
Yes - this one did. I pointed it out as Rob and Val were wondering if it was something new all armies would get in Old World, but I think it’s just a callback to Bretonnia’s old rules.
I did quite a bit of video editing in the past if you guys are looking for one
Armies of Infamy sounds like alternate rules that used to sometimes be on named characters, like Louen Leoncour allowing more Grail Knights but not allowing peasants. I def think it not being linked to named characters but instead just "Here's options" should be more fun for everyone
This made me go back and have a look at my old 5th/6th edition army books. In the back section there are thematic armies. Like in VC is a blood dragon men at arms, sort of like a dark Bretonnia or a dwarf Engineer Expedition. These armies where unofficial and only for fun, so happy that armies of infamy brings this element to the game.
how about availablity of the old models for the core factions except TK and Bretonnia? Will they be available on the day of the release? What do you think on that?
The only fair answer is I have no idea. Haven't heard a word on this. One part of me feels like they'll obviously release the other core factions, but then the other part says - that seems like more than they could handle.
So honestly no idea. Just white knuckling with everyone else and hoping for the best.
I'm still not quite sold on this game but listening to you two gab about it each week is always a pleasure.
Content idea: Tier list for Dukes?
Grand old Duke of York
Prince Andrew Duke of York
Duke Ellington
Daisy Dukes
Thin white Duke (aka David Bowie)
Duke of Wellington
(Any more Dukes)
Prince Andrew is the bin tier
Prince Andrew is def in an army of infamy and should be in a gaol of infamy *imho*
@@SquareBasedOldWorld
S: Bowie, Ellington
A: Daisy Duke
B: wellington
C Grand old Duke of York (seems a bit pointless) all other royal dukes in this tier…
Bin tier: Andrew
@@adamsboringvids "Grand old Duke of York (seems a bit pointless)"
One Duke and 10,000 stubborn Men at Arms could be a very strong build. Just need to be careful they don't get distracted by any hills on the board.
@@ClydeMillerWynantwhy would you abandon your tactical position once you’ve achieved it?
I've got quite a few older novels from the 00's set in the time period of Warhammer: The Old World or earlier time periods and they all have "Time of Legend" on the cover to indicate it's not set around the WFB sort of era.
I think after it all blew up it's all just legendary now.
I never thought we would see such a hobbyist forward game design for an army vs army game from gw. I had almost forgotten how much stuff like 40K has fallen when comes to hobby options. This is probly the most exciting part of the tow for me!
Louen was rereleased after the world ended as a finecast made to order. This one definitely had an alternative fully helmed head so you could use it as the king or as a normal lord. (I’m guessing the original metal model had the dual head too).
Also Netlisting when it's advice is great. Like helping understand what a good number for a unit is based on experience. So that before you drop 500 eurodollars on a unit of 40 metal vintage '93 High Elf Swordmasters you might discover that just taking 10 is actually a more effective way to utilize the unit. You can still get those 40 but at least you know what you are getting into. Good tactics articles are not descriptive, not prescriptive. So not 'don't take this' but rather, this is their role, this is how to optimize them for that role, this is another unit that does this really well.
I’m getting army building vibes from my favourite edition - 3rd! 😁
Reminds me of MESBG where you have your core army lists which you can ally with other forces bit sometime lose the army bonus or even worse when allying with armies which „just dont make sense“ narrative/ lore - wise.
Also: in MESBG there are „legendary legions“ - which are alterations of the „core forces“. Those give you specific bonuses but restric you in other ways e.g. „you can‘t take unit x“ which is maybe how armies of infamy might work…
Anyway - super excited :D
List building is one of my favourite things in wargaming, its why I love Kingdom Death Monster so much, gear building and designing layouts for characters is absolutely amazing.. My ADHD kicks in hyperfocus mode and I will spend every moment I have to myself going though options its just a joy, then you test them against your opponents best and the battle of wits and wills commences.
It says there's NO almanack next Monday, but "tune in on the 26th for an off white Christmas" which is presumably the Tomb Kings range reveal. Maybe a date as well but specifically no almanack.
Thanks for all the hype guys. Haven't played a game since the 90s, but this feels it's going to be amazing!
They could also really easily make 'Start Collecting Kits'
Start Collecting: Grand Army of Brettonia:
- 1 Baron
- 1 Box of Knights of the Realm
- 1 Box of Peasants
Slap a 20% discount on it, bundle in the army rules as a wee booklet and boom; Starter product
Who knows! Could be something like that
looked at getting a Ticket but there is a local old world tournament on the same day, if there is another event i would look forward to attending
Think global, play local!
very square based of you !
@@SquareBasedOldWorld
January 20th is the weekend of LVO, the Las Vegas Open. Do you think they’ll have any launch product or event at LVO? That would be quite interesting if they did.
Mr. Brandt's travelling road show usually shows up pretty big! So I wouldn't be surprised
Great show guys, Warhammer was a big part of my childhood and Im looking forward to collecting a big Empire army with ally Dwarfs and mercenary Ogres and maybe some halflings too. That was my holy grail dream army as a kid that i never got to do being a poor kid. cant wait :)
So incredibly pumped for returning to the Old World. Mercenaries/Allies is a huge win for me, always loved the idea of bringing odd units of other factions into my lists. Can be incredibly thematic.
I’m so hyped for potential dogs of war and allies. Been reading the gotrek and felix books the last couple years and would love to see the characters from that get updated models that are then playable in game!
I'm genuinely so excited for this, the allies and mercenaries stuff couldn't be more perfect for my planned Dwarf force: A wandering clan trying to reclaim their hold, led by a Dwarf Lord who until very recently was but a lesser prince who led a mercenary band.
Argh!! I went to bed expecting the show to be on tonight not realising it was back to back Emergency Podcast Episodes!!!!
Having said that I really like how they are doing army building. Gives way more guidance to players, new and old, different ways to play with armies of infamy and can be adjusted for each grand army to suit what works best for that army!! I’m impressed!! And a free BSB for Bret’s rather than you have to take one plus your general. Great stuff!!!
OUR HAIR IS ON FIRE
On naming the Dukes: when I saw Bordeleaux's Duke was D'Andylyon which I Anglicize as Dandylion, I said to myself, "Guess we're playing the winos."
Hahahah that's amazing
I am now totally modeling up a "Old Gumgrumps rust cannon crew" Amazing!
Old Gum Grumm's Rusty Cannon Crew
Damn, day-of release?! I like that.
Robbo was all hot and bothered
@@SquareBasedOldWorld He and me both, brother.
I love the concept of mercenaries in an army, I am glad they bring this back!
Thanks for doing this podcast earlier than usual 😊
Rob was pretty psyched and I couldn't deny him
I'm so hype for this game to be released.
I'm hoping armies of infamy gives me the chance to run something akin to the storm of chaos slayer army.
So very happy with everything released far.
Great discussion as always guys.
The armies of infamy inclusion is going to potentially bring back one of the best things about 6th - narrative driven alt lists.
Maybe a few years down the line they say ‘ok we’re going to do a siege of Praag campaign! You got your Chaos army book but here’s a new campaign book and it’s got a list for marauder coastal raiders, or new special characters to try.’ Maybe they have White Dwarf support or big summer campaigns you can join in on. An evolving narrative told through the steady release of books. Maybe white dwarf will be able to run fun left field fun infamy lists - here’s a list for Hobgoblin Khanate based on a twist of the Chaos Dwarf grand army. The possibilities are endless!
It looks like the allies are going to be pretty limited. For example the Bretonnians only have 4 potential allies and 2 of them are "Suspicious". Also, the Bretonnians and Wood Elves have come to each other's aid many times.
I regret using my particular example lol.
Also remember I'm talking about playing with strangers: pick up games and events. For playing a planned game or building a fun thematic army - absolutely nothing wrong with them.
It's just we've seen this movie before and games without restriction just trend towards the most efficient choices, which often does not match the narrarive foundation everything is built on
Man your prediction for release date seems to have some backing behind it. I’m backing the horse that is the square based podcast.
Also when are we having a watch along/live react to the classics “a knights tale” and Brendan Fraser’s masterpiece “the mummy” to get us hyped for Bret’s and TK??
Saddle up and ride my friend!
@@SquareBasedOldWorld hey Benny, looks like you’re on the wrong side of the square bassed
So am i misremembering or is it new that the price of a knightly virtue doesn't come out of magic item budget for the hero/lord? Virtue of the Knightly Temper will be great with a big magic bonker
It doesn't so you can really stack a character
2k seems like a lot. It was always 1750 in my area. I could see going up to 1800, but it all depends what the rest of the armies points look like.
What edition?
Allies could be a problem, but they will allow me tofield Chaos Warriors with some Deamons ir Beastmen. Almost like 6th ed Hordes of Chaos.
The chaos players make a decent case.
Mostly commenting so Val has to answer, but thanks again for the fun hype! Also personally for me who sometimes can be set in my ways the explanation Rob had for Net-Lists was very thought provoking and good for me to hear
Looking forward to more episodes :D
Changing hearts and minds one grinding comment at a time
Hey, do you guys know if the new Saurus warriors will rank up neatly and nicely? Would love to do a Lizardmen army with the new sculpts
They'll probably be just fine on 30s I figure
Hello there guys!
Shows and commentary are super fun and hope to be seeing much more coming the imminent release of TOW and onwards.
I wanted to hear your opinions - do you think the Bretonnian line of new models is completely out now? Do you think we might get something right after launch, or something down the line like a refresh of a model or two in several months after release, or we are going to have to wait for a few years until all of the other factions have had their time in the sun?
I think it's likely we've seen everything for Brets for now. But we really don't know how they're going to be actually rolling things out. Maybe there will be campaign books that are units over time? Or just random white dwarf releases like the old days. Gonna be exciting to see how it evolvea.
However! It sure does feel pretty safe to assume that the Bretonnian range is what it is at this point.
Love the sherlock and watson deduction of the release date
indubitably my dear viewer.
News drop, waiting for the next episode.
It’s going to be HUGE
Hyppogryph: I do not believe two instances of heavy armor will stack, regardless of source. The fact they specifically called it heavy armor makes me think they did so on purpose so you knew they wouldn't stack.... however a Lady on a Hyppogryph will gain the benefits of heavy armor even though she doesn't have it normally.
And Ally thought just for Val. Follow my logic here for a second:
a) The bretonian army list is called a Grand Army Composition.
b) the wood elf army list is called a Grand Army Composition.
c) The bretonia g.a.c. can take 500 pts worth of wood elf g.a.c.
d) the wood elves are likely be allowed to take 25% of allies. This is straight up a part of the wood elf Grand Army Composition.
e) Val gets sad when your bretonian's wood elf allies brought 125 pts of Dark elf allies of their own.
(Obviously I could be wrong on this, but based on the rules Ive seen it seems possible)
I don't think nested allies will be a thing but you can put that voodoo in the universe if you like!
@@SquareBasedOldWorld 🤣😂 Fair
I played Mordheim when it was first released and that was my only dip into Warhammer Fantasy as I was heavy into my Tyranids at that time.
Now, I'm much more experienced with my tabletop gaming that seeing this kind of depth return again is such a treat. I cannot believe this will be here soon as well. Such exciting times ahead and, if GW just keeps on this path, could give them some much needed "street cred" for bring something like this back and in an exciting form, if that makes any sense. 👍
I already have a complete bretonnia army and a tomb kings including setta the king of Breton liche priests bone giants the ark grail knights a trebuchet questing knights don’t even get me get started in high elves and chaos
Proud of you
What do you guys think are happening to Grail Reliquae or The Green Knight? I guess TGK is a named character so maybe we won’t see him (would be unfortunate), but Grail Reliquae was a special choice and isn’t listed under the Special troop choices. Maybe they will be an upgrade option.
Gonna assume it's part of the grail pilgrims ?
Go go! New very old content for my square head.
My dusty Dogs of War army just rumbled in the other room...
Cry havoc.....
I’m very happy about this. Should provide for themed armies and allow us Grognards the fun of using models from different factions in our lists.
On initial read the combo of minimum point spends plus max’s for certain unit choices is excellent. Precisely what the parts of the community ust to use in competition packs in 8th to limit the Tools…sorry, multiple unit selection of same good thing.
I spent many hours as a young thing creating lists in 3rd Ed using the first Warhammer Armies book to create lists using Mercenaries and Allied contingents so the new rules allowing this is just awesome to me. These options were also a thing in WAB.
The Bret characters look very cool and I’m especially happy to see a much needed super hero Baron option and very happy about options to run knights on foot.
"I spent many hours as a young thing creating lists in 3rd Ed using the first Warhammer Armies book to create lists using Mercenaries and Allied contingents so the new rules allowing this is just awesome to me."
Me too. I still don't think they're going to allow me to field a unit of allied Chaos Dwarfs along with a bazooka and a mortar in my Chaos Army though.
I cant wait for the old world. I had an army (Bretonnia, which my parents thankfully kept for me!) And i have just finished painting all those extremely badly put together peasants and now im moving onto the Knights. I missed out on actually playing the game as i was a touch too young to get the rules but many a day did me and my mate (who still has his dwarfs!) spend round my parents dining room table sticking everything together then lining everything up on the carpet in the hallway 😂.
I just want to get stuff chucked on bases already and damn GW just get us some bases released to buy
Cough *we sell basses*
@SquareBasedOldWorld yeah im probably going to pick some up! I've got 90 skinks and around 50 peasants at minimum which need rebasing. Need a bulk discount 😅
I fucking love Val's shenanigans in the intro
Thanks for all the coverage guys! I started warhammer in 4th ed. Left during 8th. Didn’t like AoS. I’m super stoked about this. I’m currently assembling an Estalian army using 3d prints and Wargames Atlantic figures. I really think this is going to be awesome. I was skeptical at first but you guys have brought me around.
Boxing Day - Christmas for the staff. The lairds and ladies would have their Christmas on the 25th which meant that the cooks and maids and butlers and whatnot had to work that day, providing for the nobs. The day after, the staff got the day off, they’d box up leftovers from the Xmas day feast. And received gifts, often in the form of hand me down clothes.
As a Canadian I have genuinely always wondered this.
I love these deep dives 👏 Hope it works out as we all hope…
Us too! I'll have to find a new alias if things go sideways
New episode when? I need to know what to think about everything!
If Dogs of War is thing there would have to be new "old" regiments from that time period.
That's a really good and exciting point
@@SquareBasedOldWorld Fresh new units with modern sculpts! It could almost be how War Cry is to AOS. You add in these bands that have minor heroes and a few cool abilities. We shall see!!!!
Hey, Rob! That resin looks really nice for those knights! What resin do you use and is it compatible with an 8k LCD resin printer?
I haven’t been this excited for Warhammer since the release of 6th edition
Looks like I need to dust off my old metal chaos dearves and start rebasing
1:25:45 JTY❤FTW
1:27:40 Bretonnia's WFB6 book came out in 2004
It is hugely amusing that so many of the WHF crowd are losing sleep at night just thinking about the implications of hills.
I recently saw the film "Medieval" on Netflix and am really hoping the War Wagon comes back. If it does I will be doing an Empire Army based on Jan Zizka's peasant rebellions in Bohemia. That said, I have always wanted a wood Elf army (never got around to it) but the old models suck balls. If there is no War Wagon rules, it will be Bretonnian.
War wagons would be a slam dunk kit. Never really understood the whole 'got replaced by the stream tank" thing when there's only like 8 of those.
GW loves making things comically rare in these vast settings. I feel the same way about chapters of 1000 space marines in a galaxy with trillions and trillions of people
What resin is that? Looks awesome
Anycubic Abs pro
@@SquareBasedOldWorld thank you!
Love the pseudo force org chart/classic points % restrictions
Great way of allowing armies to have a very limited number of potentially problematic units (looking at you WS 7, 7 wound, potential 1+ save HippoDuke) while preserving the thematic essence of the force
Tight ally restrictions are a big + as well
From just what's been revealed so far the rest of GW's systems are getting schooled oh how to write a ruleset that doesn't devolve into wacky ass flavor of the balance patch spam
We will see... but for now I am ever increasingly excited and optimistic
I genuinely think there's actually way too much wiggle. But I'm a guy who values economy of choice over fully open any day.
Do you think mercenaries means we will have dogs of war available?
Here’s a dumb question. Why would you spend 10 points on a unit leader when the only bonus on the warscroll is +1A (not men at arms or grail knights, other factions)
There are mechanics in the game that make them useful. Namely absorbing challenges from other characters instead of with your own
The way I'm reading it, it doesn't look like the Hippogryph has any armour piercing of any kind on his attacks whatsoever? Seems pretty weird to me.
Might be missing something from what they included.
Much like rules seem to be taken from Ancient Battles, Allies seems to be taken straight from the Middle-Earth Strategy Battle Game. Which is very good, as that's a great rules system that is very good at adapting well-loved characters and facets of civilisations into fun wargaming rules.
Also Val, you can't see Wood Elves with Brettonia?!? They are literally their closest neighbours!
Don't they just troll them and steal their babies tho?
I'm loving the proposed army comp rules, just a little nervous that multi-faction armies are gonna wind up way overpowered/synergized vs "pure"/single faction armies.. I'm really loving that the army comp rules gives players a reason to consider buying units not in their main army collections. Something seems just so blasphemous that I might be able to add a unit of Dwarfs into an Elves list...
Use of "mono-faction" vs "pure" is very #squarebassed.
Old 40K Stats Centre listener perhaps?
please can we call one of the duke smashington for just like a melee beat stick build
Yes we can
how do these intro's keep getting better everytime?
Practice
I can't wait to rebase my old night goblins! HYPE!
You have a sick idea of fun and I'm all for it.
I also like that Orcas eat billionaires. And now I'm committed to this show forever. Billionaire stew.. yum! Keep up the great work folks! Cheers and bring on the trees.. erm wood elves!!
A second date?!?! :O
I thought Boxing Day was about going out in the street and starting an impromptu boxing match with members of the public?!
No wonder I keep getting arrested. I feel right daft now.
That's Australian boxing day. Very different beast
Love all the comments on the min-maxing elements taking a back seat to thematic play. It really should never be a hero spam game. If the standard units are not making the plays, it quickly turns into a heroquestian, dice bucket, face smash.
Ohhhhh I get the sense that there will be some of that.
But I also think it needs to be a balance to make the model count accessible. You need some points dense units if you don't want to be painting endless duders
@@SquareBasedOldWorld Yeah it always gona come down to the details. Im pretty impressed so far though, with some some very atypical GW behaviour. Hope it continues.
As I rebase my dwarfs I can’t help but think I’m square based and grudge filled.
I love this update but I don't think letting people take mercenaries from other factions isn't going to work out well in competitive play. Imagine playing Wood Elves and getting to take 500pts of waywatchers as rare and then take another 400pts of sisters of avelorn. I am afraid people will just combine the most broken elements of multiple armies and create skew lists. Outside of competitive play though I love this.
Yeah my issue with it is mostly in matched play or event formats
I am writing an army list using the RUclips army book to invade the Twitch Chat and install Val onto the Square throne. I am taking 3000 points in a 2000 points game because Twitch Chat must fall. Long enough has Twitch chat supremacy reigned, the time of House Heffelfinger has come!!!
Will we bring any Allies or Mercenaries?
We will bring 500 points of old facebook boomers@@SquareBasedOldWorld
Let's fucking go!!! Came for the 40k, stayed for the AoS, more like AoYES, but then fell into whatever this Olde Werlde shit is!
Hey! It's the Mod of all the 40k RUclips streams 😂
Eyyy! @@WarpstonePaintingCheers 🍻
I've never met or played a narrative-based opponent before. Wonder how that works? Everyone I've ever played were sweaty.
Think about that for a bit
I vote for 1999 point tournaments become the standard.
That's actually a super interesting thought! Isn't that a thing from 6th/7th as well?
@@SquareBasedOldWorld yes it was very popular in old comp systems. helps limit the amount of strong 0-1 units and characters.
So will tournaments allow us to use 3d printed models? Per rob showing off his lost kingdom ones
It will depend on the tournament but I would think absolutely it will be the rule not the exception.
Certainly anything that we run or attend.
Can we get the STLs to the bases.. .?
I think they're up for free on the Patreon ? Like you don't need to be a paying member
Sergeant at arms is new.
Bretonnia did have a metal hero on Pegasus 😉
Want new dogs of war models give us a new shadows over albion event or something.
Wake up Samurai, you have new videos to make 😊😊
I've never found myself bound to what the tournment scene is doing in terms of points, I've played lots of slowly growing campaign/league systems with a starting total of 1000 points and extremely restrictive army lists but my preference for a stand alone game is 5k per side. I've played really big games multiple 10-12k armies on each team, but a good most of the day game of Warhammer with some very extreme options in lists and a great solid battleline is at 5k, that's def my go to.. I always build and design new armies with the idea of fielding various 5k armies with that army.
I've also never noticed a tendacy to purely follow the Tournment scence, though the allies thing will likely be banned from said scene for balance, but while I imagine internet forums might loudly talk about competition scenes that's never been true in stores or around gaming clubs. At least in my 30 years of playing as antidotal experience which counts for very little. :p
5K! What do you play on? A soccer field?
@@SquareBasedOldWorld What is this Soccer you speak of? Oh you mean football, the game that involves a ball and your foot!
10x5' is my go to, bigger games 12 or 15 foot by 5.. 5k for a horde army on 10x5 can get a little close, but for most armies its fine.
Not sure where I'm planning to play old world right now, I'm just excited its returning I have thought too much about actually tabling it.