After years, listening to a lot of nonsense about how to set you saddle height, this is the most valuable and practical piece of advice I’ve heard for a long time. Thank you so much.
This method really works. It tunes the body to the bike instead of the other way around and takes into account physical variability amongst riders. Neil Stanbury, thank you for your expert and thoughtful videos on bike fitting. I've learned a lot, and it has enabled me to dial in a more comfortable riding experience.
Thanks guys, I set the saddle height after your videos using this method this summer on my mtb bike. My back pain disappeared after that and the comfort made me go some faster! :) Also, the saddle became more comfortable and the pelvis is no longer skewed. p.s. Before that, the saddle was set very high on the bike-fit specialized body geometry....
I've have done something similar. I have started a bit low and then moved it up until I started rocking or felt like I my feet were reaching for the pedals and then move it down. It's a good starting point, for the next few weeks, I took a multi tool along for the ride in my back pocket, for some experimental changes until I was very happy with it.
Hey, there is a massive overload here on youtube regarding correct seat height. I have been overwhelmed with it all, but your simple method is spot-on, I've been doing it this way for years after being told nobody has two 100% equal length legs. It is just so nice when I see that I've 'sort of' been doing it right-ish all these years. Ive never had a pro bike-fit done before and don't think I seriously need one, but I do see how important they are especially for new riders that know nothing at all about setting up a bike. Cheers👍🏻
I can verify that for me this method did work quite well! In fact, I first became aware that my left leg was shorter than my right when applying the method to both my left and right heels. At the height that just kept my right heel on the pedal, my left heel was off the pedal by a good number of millimeters. Shims on my left cleat solved that problem.
Thank you! Yes! My bike feels so much better! Granted I've only been on one 40-minute ride since the change, but so far so good. I bought a bike last fall and I've been trying to fit it because of hand discomfort & numbness, left leg discomfort, and saddle-area pain around 60-70 minutes into every ride. I thought the local bike shop set my saddle height correctly so I didn't consider it. But I could not find a saddle set-back that would work without discomfort or felt "right." When I tried this technique (1:00), my heel didn't touch the pedal by 12mm or so, which is about how much lower the saddle is overall now to not get that weird little knee-snapping-back ("chopping") when the saddle was too high. The chopping was subtle, but noticeable. How have I not noticed it for the last 6 months of riding?! Now to fine tune it all.
It was trying this that revealed, to my surprise, that my right leg is at least 5mm shorter than my left. With my left heel reaching the pedal with a straight leg, my right heel couldn’t touch the right pedal! Then came the proper shims, G8 insoles and my saddle down 20 mm from before. Previously, apparently my left leg was just along for the ride as I am right-leg dominant. Now, all is corrected. Both legs under total control and both contributing. Oh, and my saddle issues went away. Bonus!!
Thank you! I have felt that I was sitting a bit low after relying on the heal on pedal method. So I have just spent an hour on my indoor trainer and trying out the seat hight. I ended up 12 mm higher and it felt like a more efficient position. I know plan to fine tune during the coming weeks but there is no way I am going back to the previous position.
Ever since I heard you talk about AVVs saddle height I’ve been watching her closely and geez it’s interesting to see his high it is. I think she suffered uphill the other day because of it. It must be hard to convince them but the proof is right there isn’t it
the only thing about this is that after 3 hours cycling I can handle a much higher seat height (and it feels comfy) If I was to do this test (and I agree it's excellent) at 9am on a Friday morning, I'd end up with a lower saddle than if I did it at 3pm on a Sunday (ie after riding a lot at the weekend). I also find that, unfortunately, speed and power also equate to back pain a few days after the ride, after over using the quads.
In your article "how to set the correct saddle height" There was a problem. You did not talk on the very negative efect of sitting too low, on the compression of the patella when in the higher part of the pedal stroke. In a case where saddle is too low, the angle will be small and the rider WILL develope fromt knee pain and even injury. And the legs power will be waeker. That is the most important reason why we must seek for the highest saddle height that we can achieve while still have control and power on the lower part of the stroke. This issue is critical. Thanks
Would the fore and aft greatly affect this method or do i need to worry about the height first? My concern is i have a seatpost with 24mm offset. Should i start with the saddle in the middle of the clamp of the offset or should i place it in the middle of the actual seatpost?
What change should I do with saddle height with exactly the same fit with road and gravel pedals ? (road - look, gravel - time) should it go higher or lower for gravel pedals ?
I'm having trouble with a bit of an injury and pain behind my knee. I suspect that my saddle is too high. I've recently switched to a Giant TCR SL and the integrated seat post makes this really difficult. 🤯
I’d say it doesn’t make much of a difference. The heel to pedal step just sets a starting point from which you lower the saddle 30mm to begin the process.
Choppiness can be felt by losing 'fluidity' throughout the stroke. Also when you feel like reaching with your peddling you have gone too far. Hope this helps, -RCA Team
Think he has other videos for that, Neil the expert drops his heel himself so he moves his cleats back and it means having a slightly lower seat than if you don't drop you heel/ankles.
I tried it today and the result is 2cm (!) lower then the result i get with the „le mond method“ (inseam x 0,883 = correct saddle hight) Thats the height i rode for more than 6 years. Is that possible? Or am i making something totally wrong?!
Hi,I've recently bought a new road bike.i had a bike fit in the shop to check my pedal stroke on the trainer.the only thing that concerns me is my feet are struggling to touch the floor when I'm sat on the seat.i know the obvious thing is to lower the seat but will it effect my pedal stroke to much.
It is natural and expected that your feet do not touch the floor or barely touch the floor when sitting on a road bike because of the bottom bracket height. It feels weird the first time and may seem scary, but you will get used to it. The trick when getting on and off the bike is too tilt the bike on the side, so that you can easily rest you foot on the ground without the seat getting in the way.
Ha, so I i went 5mm higher on the seatpost tube(stupidly), and in only two rides I got pain on the back side of the knee (more related to muscle and ligaments). Idk why I thought my seatpost should be moved but there's that
Anything else relies on math, markers, measurement, and professional fit. This is a 5 minute thing which most people would view as both quick and simple.
After years, listening to a lot of nonsense about how to set you saddle height, this is the most valuable and practical piece of advice I’ve heard for a long time. Thank you so much.
This method really works. It tunes the body to the bike instead of the other way around and takes into account physical variability amongst riders. Neil Stanbury, thank you for your expert and thoughtful videos on bike fitting. I've learned a lot, and it has enabled me to dial in a more comfortable riding experience.
Thanks guys, I set the saddle height after your videos using this method this summer on my mtb bike.
My back pain disappeared after that and the comfort made me go some faster! :)
Also, the saddle became more comfortable and the pelvis is no longer skewed.
p.s. Before that, the saddle was set very high on the bike-fit specialized body geometry....
I've have done something similar. I have started a bit low and then moved it up until I started rocking or felt like I my feet were reaching for the pedals and then move it down. It's a good starting point, for the next few weeks, I took a multi tool along for the ride in my back pocket, for some experimental changes until I was very happy with it.
Hey, there is a massive overload here on youtube regarding correct seat height. I have been overwhelmed with it all, but your simple method is spot-on, I've been doing it this way for years after being told nobody has two 100% equal length legs. It is just so nice when I see that I've 'sort of' been doing it right-ish all these years. Ive never had a pro bike-fit done before and don't think I seriously need one, but I do see how important they are especially for new riders that know nothing at all about setting up a bike. Cheers👍🏻
I can verify that for me this method did work quite well! In fact, I first became aware that my left leg was shorter than my right when applying the method to both my left and right heels. At the height that just kept my right heel on the pedal, my left heel was off the pedal by a good number of millimeters. Shims on my left cleat solved that problem.
Thank you! Yes! My bike feels so much better! Granted I've only been on one 40-minute ride since the change, but so far so good.
I bought a bike last fall and I've been trying to fit it because of hand discomfort & numbness, left leg discomfort, and saddle-area pain around 60-70 minutes into every ride. I thought the local bike shop set my saddle height correctly so I didn't consider it. But I could not find a saddle set-back that would work without discomfort or felt "right." When I tried this technique (1:00), my heel didn't touch the pedal by 12mm or so, which is about how much lower the saddle is overall now to not get that weird little knee-snapping-back ("chopping") when the saddle was too high. The chopping was subtle, but noticeable. How have I not noticed it for the last 6 months of riding?! Now to fine tune it all.
Maintained a 26km/h average on a 134km 1000m elevation ride with my fixed gear after using this method. This really helped me
This guy single speeds!
Nice
Why would you do a thing like that
Goggins alter ego found
Thank you for a detailed bikefitting videos I've learned a lot
I’ll give it a go, getting some pain behind right knee. Left knee is fine.
Onya Neill, it's on my to do list for the holidays. ✅
It was trying this that revealed, to my surprise, that my right leg is at least 5mm shorter than my left. With my left heel reaching the pedal with a straight leg, my right heel couldn’t touch the right pedal! Then came the proper shims, G8 insoles and my saddle down 20 mm from before. Previously, apparently my left leg was just along for the ride as I am right-leg dominant. Now, all is corrected. Both legs under total control and both contributing. Oh, and my saddle issues went away. Bonus!!
@@hansanders4983 I added 5mm of shims under my right cleat.
I never would have guessed that this video would have been this interesting
Best video in that topic :) THX
Take also into account that saddle discomfort can also occur when the seat is too high. Shafing in the groin for instance.
Thank you! I have felt that I was sitting a bit low after relying on the heal on pedal method. So I have just spent an hour on my indoor trainer and trying out the seat hight. I ended up 12 mm higher and it felt like a more efficient position. I know plan to fine tune during the coming weeks but there is no way I am going back to the previous position.
Great videos mate. Thanks. What’s the best cadence to feel the choppiness?
Interestingly, I felt that twitch on the bottom of the crank when I pedalled. Didn't know that it's because it was high. Thanks Neil & Cam!
not heard this explanation before, but sounds solid...
Quick and simple!
I like Quick and Simple over 'Quick and Easy'! Title changed. Thanks Patrick.
Ever since I heard you talk about AVVs saddle height I’ve been watching her closely and geez it’s interesting to see his high it is. I think she suffered uphill the other day because of it. It must be hard to convince them but the proof is right there isn’t it
I find if you can waggle your knee back and forth 13 to 14 cm when you are at the bottom, then you are in the ballpark.
We haven't heard this one before!
-RCA Team
the only thing about this is that after 3 hours cycling I can handle a much higher seat height (and it feels comfy) If I was to do this test (and I agree it's excellent) at 9am on a Friday morning, I'd end up with a lower saddle than if I did it at 3pm on a Sunday (ie after riding a lot at the weekend). I also find that, unfortunately, speed and power also equate to back pain a few days after the ride, after over using the quads.
Yup - it worked!
Great video. Do I need to do the same in my TT bike ???
In your article "how to set the correct saddle height"
There was a problem.
You did not talk on the very negative efect of sitting too low, on the compression of the patella when in the higher part of the pedal stroke. In a case where saddle is too low, the angle will be small and the rider WILL develope fromt knee pain and even injury.
And the legs power will be waeker.
That is the most important reason why we must seek for the highest saddle height that we can achieve while still have control and power on the lower part of the stroke.
This issue is critical.
Thanks
Is this makes you faster and more power?
Would the fore and aft greatly affect this method or do i need to worry about the height first?
My concern is i have a seatpost with 24mm offset. Should i start with the saddle in the middle of the clamp of the offset or should i place it in the middle of the actual seatpost?
What change should I do with saddle height with exactly the same fit with road and gravel pedals ? (road - look, gravel - time) should it go higher or lower for gravel pedals ?
I’d just repeat the process with the gravel pedals and shoes and let that be the proper height for that specific setup.
If i get any higher, my neck is going to hurt from looking straight. What can I do to resolve this?
Surely the amount you raise or drop your heel adjusts such that saddle height doesn't really matter much with in a 2 or 3 cm range?
Only you (your body) can answer this question, also depending on how long and intensively your ride?
is there any cure to recover the pain in the back of my knee because of too much saddle height? (sorry bad English)
I'm having trouble with a bit of an injury and pain behind my knee. I suspect that my saddle is too high. I've recently switched to a Giant TCR SL and the integrated seat post makes this really difficult. 🤯
What's your views on the heel method with no shoes? Some say shoes on and some say off.
Hey Charlie!
We all ride with cycling shoes on so this is a great place to start!
-RCA Team
try both legs because you will feel a difference between your legs.
I’d say it doesn’t make much of a difference. The heel to pedal step just sets a starting point from which you lower the saddle 30mm to begin the process.
Any tips for noticing the "choppiness" with low body awareness?
Choppiness can be felt by losing 'fluidity' throughout the stroke. Also when you feel like reaching with your peddling you have gone too far.
Hope this helps,
-RCA Team
Does this work if you are just using slip in foot straps?
When I ride I tend to feel my calf muscles are doing the work/fatiguing rather than my quads. Might this be related to saddle height?
Cleat position
to aft go more forward
So the crank arm should not be in line with the down-tube, as shown? But rather your leg should be instead?
Should be at its lowest point. My physical demonstration could have been better! It's hard to see from all the way up there!
@@roadcyclingacademy No worries - this method seems to work well. Just make sure you’re not dropping your hip to reach the pedal!
Is there an ideal foot angle to aim for? I tend to feel most comfortable when I'm dropping my ankles.
Think he has other videos for that, Neil the expert drops his heel himself so he moves his cleats back and it means having a slightly lower seat than if you don't drop you heel/ankles.
@@matthewk3233 cheers, I'll have a look for that
I tried it today and the result is 2cm (!) lower then the result i get with the „le mond method“ (inseam x 0,883 = correct saddle hight) Thats the height i rode for more than 6 years. Is that possible? Or am i making something totally wrong?!
You might have a lower heel position, everyone is different... how do you feel and perform on longer rides is what matters?
This reminds me of Steve Hogg, I think?
Steve Hogg and Neil are both very good bike fitters!
-RCA Team
I just checked Neil is a Steve Hogg approved fitter
Hi,I've recently bought a new road bike.i had a bike fit in the shop to check my pedal stroke on the trainer.the only thing that concerns me is my feet are struggling to touch the floor when I'm sat on the seat.i know the obvious thing is to lower the seat but will it effect my pedal stroke to much.
It is natural and expected that your feet do not touch the floor or barely touch the floor when sitting on a road bike because of the bottom bracket height. It feels weird the first time and may seem scary, but you will get used to it. The trick when getting on and off the bike is too tilt the bike on the side, so that you can easily rest you foot on the ground without the seat getting in the way.
Ha, so I i went 5mm higher on the seatpost tube(stupidly), and in only two rides I got pain on the back side of the knee (more related to muscle and ligaments). Idk why I thought my seatpost should be moved but there's that
We're glad this video has helped you!
-RCA Team
the 1/32the inch wizzard has spoken ;)
Yeah, I can’t sense a 2mm difference.
How is this quick and simple
Anything else relies on math, markers, measurement, and professional fit.
This is a 5 minute thing which most people would view as both quick and simple.
@2:22 "bring it back down about 2 millimeters..." That little? Seems like nothing at all. Sure you didn't mean 2 centimeters?
Yeah, 2 mm makes all the difference...:)
Is this guy just full of it or is it just me?