The Best New Taylor Swift Songs From 'The Tortured Poets Department': A Playlist
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
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This week’s episode of Popcast (Deluxe), the weekly culture roundup show on RUclips hosted by Jon Caramanica and Joe Coscarelli, includes segments on:
00:00 Introduction
00:42 How “The Tortured Poets Department” has aged with the passing of one week since its release
7:16 The huge commercial success of the first week of “The Tortured Poets Department”
10:30 The contemporary expectations of immediate album reviews
15:15 How Swift’s pandemic albums “folklore” and “evermore” introduced a new generation of hardcore fans
20:47 Jon and Joe’s picks for the best songs from “The Tortured Poets Department”
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Credits
“Popcast (Deluxe)” is hosted by Jon Caramanica and Joe Coscarelli. Produced by Sawyer Roque. Edited by Jamie Hefetz. Social media production by Pat Gunther. Photo edited by Amanda Webster. Thumbnails by Lindsey Flood. Special thanks to Nell Gallogly, Pedro Rafael Rosado, Caryn Ganz, Leslye Davis and Nina Lassam.
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Развлечения
TTPD is not only my favorite TS album, it is my favorite album of all time. (And I’m a 66yo guy with wide-ranging musical tastes, so I have lived through several decades of great music.) I’m up to a dozen listens and the songs are still getting better and better for me. As I see it, this album is nearly impossible to adequately appreciate on a first listen (or even a 2nd or 3rd listen).
A bit of context: I liked 1989 a decade ago but did not become a swiftie until folklore/evermore.
I love what you called the “theatrical” nature of some of the songs. For me, these elements were refreshing boundary-pushing elements (subtle but effective for me). Most people expected Taylor to push boundaries more dramatically, but they felt disappointed. I loved the last 3 albums and didn’t really need her to push boundaries (but, in general, I’m happy when she does).
BTW: I don’t know of anyone complaining that every Barbara Streisand album sounds the same. Every Johnny Cash album. Every Neil Diamond album. But I would say that all of those artists showed less overall variation in their whole careers than Taylor has shown in TTPD. But subtle advances are not enough for people who have come to expect genre-bending from her. I wonder how much people would tolerate? Most people (including me) want to see her do a rock album. I would also love to see her expand on the jazzy moods of False God, or tinker with various blue-grassy/folk elements. I could also see her experimenting with some elements from 1940s crooner or swing styles, but I’m not sure those types of departures would keep her on top of the charts. (But I’m hoping she doesn’t care so much about that anymore.)
As for TTPD being too long:
Billboard is running a poll asking for favorite TTPD songs. All 31 songs have votes. In other words, every one of the 31 songs are some peoples’ favorite. This seems like a sign of a great album. Speaking for myself, my lowest-ranked song (Robin) is a song that I would love if it had been released all by itself. In other words, it is only low-ranked in contrast to 30 other great songs. Bottom line: I’d say that all this bitchin & moaning about TTPD being too long is kinda lame.
What’s Your Favorite Track From Taylor Swift’s ‘The Tortured Poets Department?’ Vote!
www.billboard.com/music/music-news/taylor-swift-the-tortured-poets-department-poll-1235662683/
NICE TAKE ON THIS!! I really loved most of The Anthology tracks especially The Prophecy since it was gut wrenching and the instrumentation reminded me a bit of Sufjan Stevens whom I also love dearly. Though I wanted more rock from her, I love how she’s given us dream pop over the years as it really suits her voice and storytelling well!! Anyways, whatever she ends up doing, I’ll still be happy with the outcome every which way :))
I clicked so fast. I’ve been waiting for people’s “one week later” takes on this.
I love Jon Caramanica wearing the pink TS T-shirt.
I think podcast is such a fascinating way for reviewing music. Whether reviewers express their negative or positive opinions, listeners will understand their spoken criticism much better than in written format.
I'm 45 and have been a fan since 2009. This album is absolutely stunning in its unapologetic vulnerability, which for my money makes it a masterpiece. The idea of "too many songs" is a critical opinion, not a fan opinion. Many of us want to hear everything an artist has to give us, because that was THEIR vision, which is what we want. I'm glad you were able to get some perspective because I think this is far nore than just a "grower" of an album. I think it's ultimately going to become more and more powerful and significant retrospectively than any of us can imagine right now.
I feel like so many artists as big as Taylor release songs that are sugar rushes; a great hook but starts to bother you instead of grow on you with repeated listens. I love that this album is more of a 'it grows on you' than any album of hers previously, she didn't go for the quick sugar rush, which she could have (she herself mentions she knows hooks in the line 'I put narcotics in all of my songs'). I think this shows restraint (yes, even with 31 songs), maturity and artistry in her work.
I am in my 60s and have followed her since Debut (I was a big country fan when she hit the market). She clearly sounded like a young girl with an immature once, but clearly had songwriting skills and great delivery. I had always hoped for a folklore sounding album, but thought I would never get because it wouldn’t be filled with big hits, super radio-friendly songs. But she gave it to me, and 6 mos later, gave me more. I personally felt Midnights was put out to promote the tour. I did think Anti-Hero and Sweet Nothings were best songs on main album, but the deluxe tracks with Aaron were better and that those 6 songs (and if you include the redo with Lana and You’re Losing Me), elevate entire album.
As for TTPD, I feel is the most raw, vulnerable, and honest Taylor has been on any album so if some of the lyrical content feels awkward, I feel it adds to how she was feeling at the time and makes the music more impactful actually. I care less about perfection of the song structure in this case, whereas with Midnights, I couldn’t excuse it as easily.
To be honest, I am a huge fan of Aaron with Taylor, because unlike Jack, she writes to the tracks he sends her. When she hears his music it makes her feel things and pulls things from her unconscious and imagination vs songs she writes straight from her conscious that Jack supplements when producing it.
Jon's edit:
- "The Black Dog"
- "My Boy Only Breaks His Favorite Toys"
- "I Look in People's Windows"
- "So Long, London"
- "Who's Afraid of Little Old Me?"
- "The Tortured Poets Department"
- "The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived"
- "loml"
- "Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus"
- "Clara Bow"
- "Peter"
- "The Manuscript"
Joe's edit:
- "Fortnight"
- "Down Bad"
- "The Tortured Poets Department"
- "I Can Do It with a Broken Heart"
- "But Daddy I Love Him"
- "Guilty as Sin?"
- "Imgonnagetyouback"
- "So Long, London"
- "The Alchemy"
- "I Can Fix Him (No Really I Can)"
- "The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived"
- "Clara Bow"
- "The Black Dog"
Jon’s edit for the win
Love Joe’s version
The fact that these two picked very different songs for their edited playlist is a really good argument that releasing all 31 songs was a good idea, because all tracks are strong and everyone I know has taken away wildly different favorites. Out of all her albums, this one so far seems to have the least consensus on which song is the 'best', and I think that's a mark of its depth.
(For instance, I love The Prophecy, which so far is none of my friend's favorite, but for me it is. I like that because it makes a favorite feel more uniquely for me, like a cherished secret, which is a hard feeling to evoke with the work of an artist so over exposed as Taylor.)
My respects to you both coming back to re-review this album (I hope you were not pressured lol). I mentioned in my comment last week, the album is a grower. I didn't anticipate for the album to be so divisive and polarizing (I am tay75). I think both Jack and Aaron do bring out different parts of Taylor in the best ways, I do hear the Jack fatigue too. The album is not for everyone and like I said it feels like the beginning of the end of something tied to the Eras tour. Back to your comments about Drake, you did hit the nail on the head, I agree (not to compare artists here). I love that you both did your playlists! Joe's CD comments, same here grew up on standard 10 songs lol! I know there's a lot of songs but I feel it's her most personal, raw, and unhinged from fans, music industry, frenemies, ex-lovers, etc all unleashed and got it off her chest. Funny how folkmore/evermore is starting point for some fans due to the pandemic and it circles back to Matty. Both attended NME awards 2020 and it has been a ride!
Love this album so much. It gets better and better. Matty being the center of the entire album was the funniest switch and bait she could do 😅 This feels like the most passionate and personal album yet. They aren't songs a lot of people can relate to because it's so personal but it makes you feel from HER perspective. I feel for her instead of relating it to myself.
This is so interesting! Everybody agrees that the album needs cutting, but nobody seems to decide which songs should stay and which ones should go. If we put together both lists, the original album is full except for Florida (which is my favorite). So, can we say it is a bad album if everybody has different favorites? Also, let the second disc marinate a little bit more, this recommendation goes more to the ones that like folklore and evermore, you are going to find cuts like The Albatross, How Did It End, The Prophecy, I Hate It Here, those are high-quality songs.
Joe not including COSOSOM on his truncated tracklist when that’s a seminal song in the narrative…OKAY THEN OKAY…
COSOSOM is also like top 2 on anthology it's a CRIME he omitted it
FYI - the Black Dog is an after-hours bar in Cork, Ireland. It is a very popular dive bar that recently got a new sound system. It’s a venue known for hard rock and alternative music. The 1975 were in Cork playing a show on June 13, 2023 at the local football (soccer) stadium.
Thank you! So many people think it's about the one in london, just because of a vague statement from the owner about a "blonde guy" that frequents it. 😅
Its also Jo and Taylor's favorite bar in London.
@@donnaeasty1816 Source? I've seen many people claim that but they always refused to say where they got it from.
@@Eragon2679it fits the timeline of Matty and Taylor’s relationship. They broke-up on June 5, 2023 according to TMZ. And, then, on June 13, 2023, Matty performs in Cork. It was an unusually hot day. Matty’s mother and her friends were at this Cork show. It makes sense that they went to this after-hours bar that night. Also, it is well-known that Matty is a fan of the Starting Line which is the band referenced in the song. Finally, Taylor is very smart: she knows the difference between a “pub” and a “bar”
I think Taylor has been writing Joe Alwyn breakup songs since Folklore and probably Lover. She can say Folklore is a collection of fictional stories but I don't buy that at all.
She actually didn't really say that! If you read the prologue of the album she says "I found myself not only writing my own stories, but also writing about or from the perspective of people I've never met, people I've known, or those I wish I hadn't." So yes, on face-value, that's how the album was presented but it was always about her. In a Zane Lowe interview, she explained that she had felt exhausted from writing about her own life and it being trivialized and how hiding her own feelings into characters and stories was a way to get away from that. In hindsight, maybe this was a way to protect herself and not show the world that she was feeling down.
Agreed
Lover was already signaling she was "desperately" in love with Joe and reveals the weak power dynamic where she was trying everything to keep him. Folklore is where she struggles within herself about the "Is this love real or all more in my head than his?" By this album, she realized she caged herself to appease Joe and he still drifted away. She then "lost herself" in the passions or fantasy of wild, restrained sexual energy of Matt Healy as her rebound, something she missed from her early years during the 1989 album times with Matt when she was still single and mingling (pre or during Calvin Harris). But she TOOK RESPONSIBILITY that those failures were all partly due to her own weaknesses and decisions, and she owns it. This is the most mature album from Taylor, and coming full circle as a woman across all her albums, is a quintessential American woman experience searching for love in this post-Cold War world.
An extraordinary thing about many critics of this album, such as you two, is that you feel negatively about this Swift effort overall and yet like different songs, so much so that 20 songs or more from the double album have been called good or great by people like you who are negative overall. What does that fact say about the critics of Taylor Swift. I love that you have almost entirely different tracks on your playlists.😅
Exactly !!
Im no critic, but in my opinion, the TTPD tells a story & The Anthology fills in the blanks & provides further insight into that story. Yes, 31 songs can feel like too much, but in this age of streaming we can all pretty much make our own playlist and enjoy the songs as we wish or feel like in the moment. The 2 very different track lists you both created is proof of how we all experience music differently, depending on personal taste, mood, etc. Objectively, I think that thanK you aIMee; So High School; Robin; Cassandra and even The Alchemy do not belong on this album. Thats it! These 5 songs would be the only ones I would cut from the whole album. All the rest makes sense and adds to the story. Personally, I LOVE that she gave us all of it. With all its cheesiness and cringe, I find myself smiling and feeling transported back to my teenager years singing along to "So High School;" and the petty in me is ever so satisfied when thanK aIMe comes on... point is, despite not being highlights for me, these are songs I can still enjoy listening to.
Midnights was my jam. You’re breaking my heart❤!!
I’m definitely a Joe edit person. I enjoyed the episode!
caramanica the fit goes craaazzzyy !! you ate
3:20 this is such an unrelated thing but that characterization is so true and it makes me think of a good drake line from "houstantlantavegas" (back to 09 baby) "Until you find yourself, it's impossible to lose you" that is then ruined by the explanation "Uh, because I never had you" and then it just gets worse with "although I would be glad to". I always felt this way but there was never an occasion to share it
if she's behind the camera making yall say this wear blue in ur next podcast
"Yeah maybe i did have a sad weekend" lolll
Excellent convo!! Does anybody have the Spotify links to their playlists?? 🤔
ADDISON RAE COME ON POPCAST DELUXE
I'm so happy that i found this podcast! Feels like coming home after a tiring week ❤
Commenting for the algorithm- GOATd podcast (video is a great bonus too)
Loved hearing your slimmed down versions of TTPD - I have my favourite 8-10 songs but I do think the sprawl/data-dump nature does take away from some good emotional heart AND bangers/hooks across the project.
I'd really love to hear your perspective on the success of the Challengers film + soundtrack. Not sure in the U.S., but in the UK the memes about the main theme AND the mixed albumn by Boyz Noize have taken over my Twitter TL, and it really seems to have captured a slice of the cultural imagination (maybe just in queer/queer-adjacent dance/electronic/hard house fans in London). I think the decision by Ross and Reznor to also conceptualize the album as a single mix is a really interesting innovation and bringing in someone like Boyz Noize was a fantastic decision. Would love to know if you guys have any favourite soundtracks and what you think generally about the film and the culture around it?
In my Swifty over Fifty group, people are listening straight through over and over or shuffling or shuffling into all their other Swift songs, so definitely not linear. The common thread is that most have been listening pretty constantly since release and are not tiring of it. Also that there are no skip songs even though a few needed several listens.
glad you guys did this while managing *not* to kowtow to the stans and suddenly praise TTPD. however, i disagree with your theory of a correlation between someone's entry point for Taylor and their reception of her recent work. I'm 32, not a stan, but came in just before Fearless, and fwiw, I rank TTPD above it in her discography at the moment. I don't rank it above reputation ;) but I do rank folklore above reputation ;) ;)
I am an older woman and love Taylor's music. T TPD is fantastic, I love the music, video and the story behind the song is great with POST Malone..
THANK YOU
Please do a Lana Del Rey episode! She has completely blown up the last year (from the perspective of a fan of 10 plus years) and I would to hear yall discuss this rise
Honestly I love the choose your own adventure route. I made a 16 track version myself with my own narrative and sonic appeal. Funnily enough my album version starts with So Long London hahahahah
Really hope we get a JoJo Siwa double album so y'all do a Joe/Jons version 21:44
Arnotts Shapes! These snacks are super common in Australia and New Zealand. So weird to see them try these. FYI they are in the cookie/cracker aisle 😊😊 (but I have been told by foreigners our supermarkets have a weirdly large cracker section)
Mine would be:
“the prophecy”
“Down bad”
“Who’s afraid of little old me”
“Loml”
“So long London”
“I can do it with a broken heart”
“But daddy I love him!”
“The smallest man whoever lived”
“Iwannagethimback”
“Clara Bow”
“How did it end?”
What does “overly deterministic” mean in the context of music? Are the songs in quantum superposition?
I hope they answer this!
In this context (at 25:11 Jon says Fortnight is “overly deterministic stylistically” and The Black Dog is not), he’s saying that starting the album with The Black Dog would set us up well for an album which seems to have two distinct song styles(“Antonoffian and Dessnerian” 25:22). He things The Black Dog sets us off in one direction, perhaps making it more difficult to reconcile the album’s relationship to the other style, and to hear it as a cohesive whole.
I'm here for grandpa! This baer of a man wearing the pink Taylor shirt...epic.
Joe served as her muse (both good and bad songs) for 6 albums. There are more songs about Joe than any other past relationship. I feel that she wrote about the breakdown of the relationship over a lot of songs, even if she had to veil them as ‘stories’ since she was still in it. And I don’t feel Joe is feeling dissed by not having more tracks about him. He has said several times that he didn’t believe Taylor would disrespect what they had by writing a lot of songs about their personal stuff. He is so obsessively private so I am sure he is relieved actually, especially having the spotlight be on someone else with Taylor other than him since he clearly hated that aspect of their relationship.
....I hate so long London lol
Where’s the film commentary, the international directors, Luca, challengers, Denis?
but where can I find that pink tee… 🤔
Love that shirt!!!! 👚
why isn’t this on Spotify?
It is now.
16:14 - Don’t you think Taylor is trying to focus more on pleasing her new fans (since folklore) rather than the old ones because there are more “stans” from the get go (because I’d argue TikTok has changed fandom and made stan-culture more the default), and this is better for Taylor’s business because the younger/TikTok audience buys into her stuff rather than older fans who tend to be overall more critical because we’ve seen her change so much?
Also in regards to your previous episode - I’m curious if she’s scared to leave the Jack/Aaron production cycle because 1) it has been working for this new TikTok stan group and 2) maybe a big production/genre change won’t work like it did when she moved from Speak Now to Red to 1989?
Lmk if there’s merit to this argument I’m curious :)
Joe’s edit wins IMHO. I love Antonoff & synth-pop though. Jon’s edit is a bit depressing. 😂
I think this is her best album.
I agree about Midnights… I love Taylor, but I don’t feel it deserved AOTY.
All of the albums nominated last Grammys were not great
It wasn't Lana or Taylor or SZA or Olivia or Miley's best work
So i get why Midnights won it
I preferred it to the rest nominees even though it's not top3 of Taylor's albums
I loved that album but Evermore should have won the Grammy the year before.
I did laugh at how different your choices for shorter albums were.
Joe, CD era album bloat was also a thing. lol
The ttpd album is basically about her relationship with Matty Healy. Her twin. I don't think there's closure. I can see them getting back together as the football player isn't a good match for her at all. It's actually her best album as it's raw and honest and genuine. This is coming from someone who is not really a big fan of Taylor's.
The fact you guys think Joe got the ultimate diss for not being mentioned. When actually Joe is so raw a topic she won’t even go within a mile of that trauma. There is no way she’s still mad at Kim but has no significant feelings about the man that has been with you for half a decade and picked you up when fell her words. I bet she has four whole albums in the vault about him💀
So, basically, you two are saying that the complete album has songs for most people, those in their sad bag and those looking for synth pop. Got it.
Taylor and theatrical is synonymous, the over-drama is her schtick.
I don’t think we should give her what she wants by talking about the numbers. This is a rare singer songwriter who only sells her art - even Beyonce has a haircare line now - so I see why she goes hard on the physical copies, which then show up in the numbers. I wish fans didn’t focus on getting her numbers up - the art speaks for itself! You don’t need to financially support this woman! She’s a billionaire!!!! 😂😂😂
"You don’t need to financially support this woman! She’s a billionaire!!!!" ... so how did she make her money? Right, from selling her music + tour + merch.
Let’s be real she sells more than music. Just because she doesn’t have a beauty line at Sephora doesn’t mean she isn’t selling cardigans and other ugly merch on her website and at her tours.
@@MSerrada1 We are truly in the worst times when people fully miss my point. Being a billionaire = no good
@@jasminebuckles608 All merch is ugly 😂 and all artists sell merch. Your point?
Have you considered that people just buy stuff cos they want it? Like I'm a huge fan and haven't bought anything except an eras ticket cos I can't really be affording that, but I would like merch and have fun collecting vinyls etc if I did have the money. People are really into vinyl as collectors, i'm sure there's a tiny percentage of people who are invested in getting her sales up but also they don't need to be cos people just wanna buy her stuff, it's not that complicated.
I think you are putting too much emphasis on folklore bringing in new fans. Taylor built an incredible brand. I don’t think male music critics understand what a shock it was for mothers of very young girls who had bought all this Hannah Montana merchandise to see Miley being so overly sexual in 2013 - twerking at MTV’s VMAs. It was really shocking to these mothers. Miley was in her rebellious phase and gave very direct interviews that she didn’t want to be a role model. Most female singers were being overly sexual at that time except for Taylor. If you were a parent ten years ago, Taylor was the entertainer that you wanted your child following. And, Taylor was very aware that she was looked at as a role model and she built a very strong brand. And that’s why when you see videos of Eras Tour shows - you see young girls there and high schoolers and college kids and thirty-somethings and middle aged women.
Dare y’all to try and talk about that new Kendrick without any black folk on here
Lol @ another TS episode...
Two episodes of Taylor Swift?! Why didn't Cowboy Carter get this treatment from you guys? 😢
Because there was a LOT of blowback of the speed in which critics pushed out reviews of 31 songs. And given all the record-breaking stats at odds with some critical views, it makes sense for them to look in the mirror, or double-down on their views.
I think they clearly have favorite topics to cover. Hip hop/rap and Taylor swift stand out. I’d love to see the host panel rotate and diversify the perspectives presented.
cos it was less of a big deal and their thoughts didn't change on that album. Taylor's bigger so she gets more coverage as much as I love Beyonce
Taylor Swift albums are notoriously badly ordered. I think reordering the album track is basically a sport for Taylor Swift fans.
Can you please talk about something else now? I mean, I'm going to listen to this, but it's getting pretty long for an album that's mostly been criticized for being too long.
I don't know that ''coherent'' makes the whole imperfect songs thing any better. I'd just want the imperfect songs out of the equation, why must we necessarily find something good to say about an album?
john ur crazy for this one what a slog
peter worst song on the album
joe pretty good over all buti can fix him over fresh out the slammer as our haunted saloon pitstop is extremely whack
u guys need to revisit "the bolter" its so bright and snappy its like fearless revitalized + tlgad. in 3-5 years everyone will get it
also whats ur beef w so high school. if soccer mommy made that song everyone would be clapping and cheering. suspend disbelief...
I KNEW so high school reminded me of SOMETHING
i'm gonna get you back is the worst song lmao what
It's a bop for me 🎶
Is there a person holding a 🔫 to your head? 😂 blink twice for help! 😉
Am i crazy or is joe lowkey hawtt
ma'am this is a Wendy's. Well, no it's not, but please take the niche thirsting to Reddit like a normal person 😂
So much charity to Taylor than Beyoncé. Interesting.
They did not cover Beyonce this much they must be on Taylor payroll 😭
Cruel Summer became a thing because Olivia Rodrigo covered it and sang praises about the song.
Ummm, no. It was always a fan favorite when the album dropped. It took off after Eras Tour kicked off and even though she starts with a few lines from Miss Americana & The Heartbreak Prince, the tour opener was really Cruel Summer. It exposed a lot of new fans to it and reminded older fans what a great song it was, especially performed live. As it crept up the charts, Taylor finally released it as a single so then it got radio airplay (it had been planned to be a single for the summer bop in 2020 but they shelved it given pandemic - felt timing would be tone deaf if they did that). Olivia covered it in spring 2020, but the sing never went anywhere back then. She then sampled it in her song Deja Vu in 2021. But Cruel Summer never went anywhere until the Eras Tour kicked off.
@@sulathenewfie4277 No. It was the Olivia cover. People had a better appreciation and saw the potential of the song when Olivia lent her voice to the song and gave it more appeal. Otherwise, Cuel Summer is such a lame, corny song.
These men listened to her songs with the frame of mind of a man's mind. That is why they don't get it. My guess is they don't have daughters.
Awesome chats. Can you guys please keep covering Taylor and steer clear of trying to discuss Hip Hop. 🙏
Keep crying
@@danielpeters2501 since you’re catching my tears then sure I will