I'm a collector. Been collecting since 98. I like BGS just the way they are. Personally I like BGS over PSA... I'm not a flipper so I'm not worried about the so called values. I like to know why my cards got a certain grade.
Chris here - that’s totally fair. If you like the slabs and don’t mind the customer service, then more power to you. Do you like to have your collection in the same slabs? For continuity? I’m not a flipper either, but I’m always interested in the value of my cards. Even my favorite PC Cards - I won’t own them forever. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts.
If Fanatics bought out TAG put a kiosk in key LCS's ( probably few to start as space is likely an issue). Grade cards while you shop. If they could prove/ validate consistency, would be an interesting venture. Issue would come down to cost and winning over the masses. Simple and convenient is a big seller. Just my 2 cents. Anyways love the show guys keep em coming!
Thanks for watching! Chris here - I love the idea, basically what some companies offer at bigger shows. For a higher price. Personally, I think fanatics woukd rather buy a company like Beckett for the increased name recognition. But we won’t know until they do something.
I only used BGS for patch cards because of sub grades. Patch cards have more dimensions so I figure the sub grades is a better choice. I typically use SGC and PSA. I hope BGS figures things out. Fanantics should do a partnership with CGC or just buy TAG.
As I recall with BGS, with few exceptions, the final BGS grade can only be 0.5 above the lowest subgrade... so they are rarely overgraded. They don't damage your cards in the grading process like PSA commonly does (10-15% in my experience). SGC has more consistent grading than PSA, but cards can shift in the holders as well. BGS slabs are more protective than the others. They are truly archival. No PVC that touches the card (and the damaging breakdown products that occur with PVC breakdown- acids and alcohol by-products). The inert polypropylene inserts are like all modern soft/penny sleeves- are all a little cloudy unfortunately. Subgrades/reports will become more essential in the future (look at TAG). BGS is already there, just needs fine tuning.
This is exactly how I imagine Beckett leadership meetings go, people just reading arguments out loud preaching to the choir ignoring the dying brand ignorant what customers really want, sad to see a historic brand disappear because business leaders don’t know how to live up to their companies history
Chris here - I’ve seen a lot of people who’ve realized the inside sleeve of their bgs slabs is melted to the card after cracking the case. Not system is perfect. Beckett was the leader, but they let themselves fall behind and now they’re obsolete. No other way to say it. The value for their slabs - outside of the older bowman chrome first autos, graded when Beckett was king - just isn’t there. Thanks for watching!
10-15% seems outrageous. You personally have that amount of your submitted cards damaged by PSA? I've submitted thousands and it's only happened once to me. Can you clarify?
@@His.Wickedness Yes, my last two PSA orders had a ridiculous number of damaged cards coming back to me. They were all vintage card, pre-1986. I surmise that the damage occurred when reinserting the cards back into and out of the penny sleeves during the speedy grading process. When you rush the corners can often dinged and edges chipped. I'm sure you have noted this with your own cards. If you don't believe me take 10 1985 Topps cards and try it. Use your 10x magnifier and take a photo of the pre and post penny sleeve insert process. Do it twice for each card (as PSA does for each card) and let us know what you see! If you rush you will damage ~10% of your cards, and I believe this is precisely what happened at PSA. Regarding the inner sleeve on BGS holders, polypropylene is inert and does not stick to cardboard. PVC breaks down over time- acids and alcohols are released. Who knows how that slow breakdown process will damage the cardboard within the holders. This is the reason that National archivers recommend polypropylene inserts for stamps and other important paper products.
We need an industry wide grading scale. This way, the only thing the companies are fighting for are good prices, and we, the consumer, know how things are being graded from these companies that we are trusting.
I’ve always liked the BGS holder more than any other holder. The most important thing to me is the protection of the card after it’s encased. Obviously, the company has flaws, but there’s no rattling around with their cases.
The majority of my collection are in PSA slabs, but most of my more expensive cards are in Beckett slabs. I would actually prefer it if they were all in Beckett slabs because I like the extra protection the penny sleeve adds and I like that the slabs themselves are much sturdier. I also like the squareness of them. I currently have quite a few cards in PSA slabs that move around inside of them and that can easily cause damage. I do not like that whatsoever. I have never come across any cards moving around in BGS cases. Beckett has a lot of good attributes and if I’m going to spend a lot of money on a card then I want it to be well protected. I believe BGS does the absolute best job with this. However, I do wish the Beckett cases were more clearer and I’d really like it if they got rid of those tin labels. Especially the little squared autographed grade label on the side because nothing looks unison. I actually think their labels looked better when they had the autograph grade in the back. In any event, they should definitely move away from the old fashioned tin label because it looks way too dated and a lot of them fall off inside the case….. SGC slabs on the other hand, look and feel way too cheap for me. Those slabs look like something anyone can make from their local Michael’s store. I like the black border idea, but SGC should’ve changed the overall look and stability of their cases when they switched labels. Not to mention changing the size because those slabs are way too big for no reason. I personally only buy SGC slabs if they are an absolute steal. Otherwise, I rather pay more for a PSA or BGS for the reasons I mentioned. CGC have nice and clear slabs, but there aren’t many cards that I’m looking to buy in those slabs and it’s not really worth it to me to switch to them. So I’m with you when you say that you like Beckett and don’t want to see them fail because I feel the same way. Hopefully, BGS makes changes to become more modern. They should focus on making their app and website to be more like PSA’s and to make everything work flawlessly together in their own ecosystem. Beckett can easily modify things…..
I like the BGS 9.5 as it’s perfect when there is a huge price variation for a PSA 9 and 10. For example, the 1989 Score Barry Sanders PSA 10 goes for around $1,300 and the PSA 9 goes for $125. I feel the 10 is overpriced and the 9 is underpriced. A BGS 9.5 can go for around $250-$500 depending on the subgrades. That price is the perfect sweet spot for me in the hobby as I just can’t find it for so many PSA slabs.
Chris here - I love this. Exactly what collectors should do. Look for situations to exploit and buy what works for them. Good work! Thanks for watching!
Great discussion fellas. I don't know, I'm in the minority on this. The variance on the subs is bothersome, I get that. But at the same time, I really like the granularity on the big cards. Case in point...look at the pwcc premier auction this month. They have a 'psa 10' Kareem sticker. Go look at it. Even for PSA standards, that centering is *not* 10 worthy. I think you need a grade between 9s and 10s for those big cards.
Chris here - personally I’d like to see PSA tighten up their centering standards. I can ignore a small surface defect - especially in a slab where you can’t even see it - but an off centered card just jumps out at you as not gem worthy. Thanks for watching and commenting!
BGS obviously was a wild failure of comical level execution (lack there of) during the pandemic boom. BGS grading is a tough ship to save at this point, which I say as someone who valued BGS > PSA as a kid in the late 90s/early 2ks when I first sent my MJs, Kobes and Vince Carters to them before i left the hobby in high school. And even when I came back in 2015 I still valued BGS as at least on par with PSA, but honestly I think I liked them more at the time. I know this competes with Tpott's baby, but I still can't believe they haven't used the Beckett brand and build a viable collection/card value tracking subscription software tool during this boom as well. Obviously Beckett magazine was the golden standard that every card collector older than 25 or so probably remembers. Those goober exec's at Beckett just let all that built in goodwill and brand value within the hobby/market evaporate into nothing.
Chris here - Beckett was THE name in the hobby. It’s insane what’s happened to it. Just zero innovation, zero effort. It’s hard to even wrap your head around it. Makes no sense. It’s really a shame. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Chris here - I missed this one but I have to agree with your point here. Grading can be frustrating but adding in notes from the graders will slow the process to a crawl! Thanks for watching and commenting!
The grading scale is the same but from what I’ve seen is they are grading more BGS 10’s so their grading standards are a lot looser compared to 5 years ago, so we will see more 10’s from them no matter what anyways. Also yes, they need a new slab that is thinner with a better label, and get rid of the no subgrade option.
I always loved the BGS holder since I was a teen 20 years ago, one minor issue with the sub grades is it generally makes the overall grade itself more accurate and more likely to have a card grade lower which the “sellers” don’t want & collectors don’t really either but collectors do want accurate grades and sellers would rather have an inaccurate 10 grade than an accurate 9.5.. if that makes sense
Chris here - I like the holder for it’s extra level of card protection. One thing I’ll say a about subgrades - I never understood how a card with a 9 grade centering could be a 9.5. How do great corners, edges and surface make the centering better? If some part is a 9, it should be a 9! Just my opinion. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Thank you for your response and I agree! That reinforces why ppl would rather have the simple PSA 9 or 10 but I like the more accurate (generally) and more transparent sub grade system for sure
So if bgs would automatically make their 9.5s to 10s... how do they change the subs? So 3 9.5s and a 9 would be a 10?? Or even 4 9.5s would be a 10? It wouldn't make sense.
Chris here - this definitely wouldn’t make any sense. Min gems are closer to 9’s than 10’s. The scale bgs uses is one thing that sets them apart. I definitely wouldn’t change that. It’s the least of their problems.
If I were Fanatics and wanted to get into grading, I don’t think I would do it by trying to resurrect BGS. I think the BGS brand and the business model are just too difficult and cumbersome. I suppose Fanatics could attempt to acquire BGS’s assets and employees, rebrand everything, institute a new grading scale and business model, and launch a new grading service. It would make sense to make it part of the Fanatics ecosystem along with PWCC. The Dynasty RPA is a sweet card. I’d rather have one card I love than three cards I like.
Hey John, Chris here. Beckett has so much history in the hobby. It’s a name, a brand. I could see fanatics thinking it could restore Beckett to former glory. Maybe easier than a company like TAG. One card I love over 3 I like? I couldn’t agree more!! Thanks for watching!
@@SpitballinCards agreed. Just so many like that with janky labels. . I crack almost every BGS slab I buy. Can’t stand looking at them. Thanks for the response
BGS absolutely need to get rid of gem mint 9.5 and call it gem mint 10 like everyone else. It completely fucks over BGS for value because as mentioned, the entire market is going for the 10 grade - and no one considers BGS 9.5 equivalent, due to saying 9.5 at the top instead of 10. They should keep black label as the top end grail grade for hobby. Pristine (non-black label) probably gets lost in the shuffle, but it would be worthwhile to get BGS gem rates equivalent to PSA/CGC and the "gem mint" grade up to a 10.0. Boo 9.5
The saying in coins not as sophisticated a hobby as ball cards🙄 is buy the coin not the holder. If you can't tell the difference between a Beckett 9.5 and psa 10 geez which one should i buy? Michael Harris beckett 9.5 sold for $2025. Same as a psa 9. It's a no lose situation to the buyer. The emperor isnt wearing any clothes.
Chris here - yes indeed, there are ample opportunities to find bargains within the card grading world. Three austin Riley bowman chrome gold autos sold last week on the same day. Three different grades, all gem mints. Very wide variance in prices.
I sent in 34 one piece tcg cards on the special... They gave me 18 tens. one piece has a very high pop for BL. Almost all of the 10 were knocked for surface.. I used a 10x mag and micro. That is clear pop control. Its a shame bgs has become what it has. I hate the fact I could send every 9.5 again and get 10s and all the 10s will eventually get a BL.I would understand if it was anything but surface but surface is the reason not a single card got black label where some of the cards have like 240 BL. Not to mention the time. I sent in early feb and I just get them back monday. I sent to psa basically march on the mlb special and got them back a week ago. BGS is just falling off to me.
A riley greene Bowman auto /50 sold for $200 more in a bgs 9.5 then a psa 9 back on the 7th so it's still turning a profit for people with bgs cards currently
From a collector's point of view I take the stack. From investor's point of view this is tough. 4 cards says to me less risk vs 1 card. However rarity matters. Not sure the rarity of all 5 cards.
BGS needs to make getting a black label a little easier. I think the black label is the only thing bgs has over other grading companies. No one wants to send their modern cards in to get a 9.5
Chris here - whatever your reasoning, you’re costing yourself value with your collection. No way around it. PSA slabs add the most value. Best bang for your buck.
@SpitballinCards I know I'm in the minority these days, but I truly just like to collect cards. I don't typically sell cards and only have them slabbed to protect them. I know its sad to say, but more people need to be reminded that money isn't everything.
@@mangobango6970 I understand that. Most of my collection - Freeman, Acuna, other Braves cards, SSP - I have because I love the cards. But if I’m grading a card, I’m investing in my card. I want the best value. I know i think my favorite cards are forever PC Cards, but that’s just not realistic. Also, purely aesthetically, I like how PSA slabs look together. Different slabs in my shelf sets off my OCD.
Agree w Tpott. Disagree it’s an upgrade. The gold labels are graded gem mint, whatever you make for a change, need to keep them gem mint. Pristine and black label should be differentiated. All the true gem, min gem, true gem plus stuff is all BS. The same cards in the same condition are in PSA 10 holders…. People want a breakdown for their grades, and BGS gives you that. If you look how BGS gems currently, their rates aren’t far different from PSA. BGS has beat holders, PSA has a great registry…
Sometimes i think you guys are sophisticated. Sometimes not. Fanatics owning a grading company is a conflict of interest. Not by law of course, the hobby is not regulated, but nevertheless. The flip side is that PSA if it has too much of a monopoly that's not good either. Fanatics is gonna fail. It will be a minute but they will bleed money until they fail. Just like they ruined ball park memorabilia, they will ruin cards, if they buy beckett see above for conflict of interest. There needs to be less product , way less throw away product and way less breaks. 10x the hobby will be the kiss of death. 2x to 3x in 10 years would be good.
Chris here - glad to hear we occasionally sound sophisticated! I think you’re right about fanatics owning a grading company. Coukd definitely be a problem. But so far they seem to want to control everything around the hobby. Not ideal for collectors, for sure. I couldn’t agree more with on this point - we need less products. Better products. Not watered down parallels and 800,000+ base cards. Thanks for watching!
Wow you smucks only care about what beckett can do for you since you already paid. Beckett is looking at the customer who is coming through the door tomorrow. Lowered prices and kept everything the same. I love it. I'm getting an order ready now to send!
Chris here - lower prices is a good start. But since their slabs are worth significantly less than PSA slabs, their prices should be significantly less than PSA. I just don’t see any reason to sub with them right now. Value isn’t there for me. But that’s just my opinion. To each their own in this hobby. Thanks for watching!
My issue is that their bulk “lower price” is still more expensive than the other three grading companies. Every other service level is essentially the same as psa… they need to beat psa in pricing, not match them for a large group of people to send to them
Please report back how the submission process goes - hoping they made some improvements on that end. Historically was much more of a headache that the PSA process.
BGS needs to maintain what they are doing but remain socially. They rock and sub grades are very important. People are smart enough to figure out 9.5 Gem Mint is Gem Mint. It’s not science and your thinking wayyyyyyy toooo much. Good stuff
I agree that BGS is beyond repair. They will slowly go out of business and then get bought and shut down. I also agree that Dynasty RC's are super overvalued at the moment. In fact all dynasty cards from 2023 are selling for triple what they did in the past. I wish my older dynasty cards would spike up in value to match.
Chris here - I could see something like Fanatics buying Beckett and trying to resurrect the brand. But would it work? I doubt it. Dynasty looks good. It does. But it’ll never be like RPA’s in other sports because the Bowman Chrome auto comes first. Thanks for watching and commenting!
The BGS holder is by far the best one in the hobby aesthetically. Could be a little more clear, and sure add a QR code on the back, but it’s visually the best and it isn’t close.
Chris here - it definitely provides the best protection, but to me it’s bulky and whisk the inter sleeve is great for the card, it hides a lot of shine from refractors. Just my two cents. Thanks for watching!
@@SpitballinCards theres absolutely things to like and hate about all slabs, but saying PSA has a nicer slab is crazy. They are probably the most basic slab in the world. I do most of my business with them now despite being a BGS fanboy (values amirite), but no argument between the two for purely visual is legit
@@kylemclaren8772 values - 💯! PSA slabs are basic, but that’s fine with me. When I stated seeing bgs slabs with the gold flip half out of place and all crooked, I was off officially done. I do like that the card doesn’t rattle around at all.
Got to completely disagree with T-Pott. BGS is consistently or grading a little more month to month and so on. Do you know the employee size of Beckett? If they were sinking, they would’ve been sold a long time ago. I’ve watched SCI since before T-Pott started working for Geoff and ever since, SCI has completely pumped PSA. People like to collect rare things and everyone wants to call this the junk slab era when it’s the PSA junk slab era. Beckett did the right thing by not changing. People remember that Beckett was and is always about the collector. What has PSA done or what will people remember about PSA? That influencers pumped PSA in 2018/19 and during Covid and now there’s a bunch of garbage out there. Only reason most people grade with PSA is because right now, you’ll get more money for reselling and most people right now are just reselling and not collecting.
Chris here - I have to disagree with you. Beckett was about the collector at one point, but if you’ve subbed with them over the last 5 years there is no less collector friendly experience. zero customer service. No order updates. Just an absolute mess they felt no need to change or improve. Can they be saved? Possibly, but it’s less and less likely every day. 90% of my PC is in PSA slabs, and I can’t see that changing. You’re right - we are in a junk slab era. And also junk parallel, junk auto era. Yeah, collectors are grading cards that aren’t worth grading. I mean, how many 2020 Topps base cards if Arestides Aquino were graded?? Thanks for watching. I always appreciate hearing from other collectors, whether we agree or disagree.
@@SpitballinCards Beckett definitely hired some bad people. Rubin did too with Luber. I’ve subbed with BGS a little over the past 5 years and the app than wasn’t that bad. They certainly can improve and I’m hoping they do. These new guys don’t appear to be about wanting to be cool/hip or the next new fad, but we’ll see. Most my slabs are PSA too.
100% agree with ty you need a bgs 10 gem mint no 9.5. Literally the absolute leader does it people don’t buy bgs anymore they are sending a message super stubborn from bgs not to change seeing customers literally ignore them
Chris here - changing the gem mint grade from a 9.5 to a 10 would do nothing for me. They’ve used their scale for 20+ years and it’s too late to change it. They have so many actual issues that need addressing!
Sounds to me like your waiting for Beckett to announce the Details of their comeback. I spoke to my BGS rep last week and this is what i got from it. Their Customer Service will be a Priority and Transparency is very important to them. * The Pricing was Cheaper than PSA * They are Offering an Option of Sub Grades or No Sub Grades Service. Seemed like there was a $2 difference. * NO Up-charges at all * Doing more grading in person and and at shows. * Cross grading where they will look at your card from other company and only grade the card if they feel it deserves a better grade. *
Only tie breakers(++)should be even considered…to be rounded up. Hence, use a total point score system equal to tie breakers. You are going to have another financial crisis getting rid of all 9.5’s. All 9.5’s are NOT the SAME.!!Nice try..and absolutely NO downgrades. Just do the math…guys…. 9 Mint ++ (2x9’s, 2x9.5’s) = 37pts = could be considered as a new rounded up 9.5 Or 9 mint ++ ( 3x9’s, 1x10)=37pts= new 9.5 -------------- 9.5 Gem Mint ++( 2X9.5’s, 2x10’s)= 39pts= new 10 9.5 Gem Mint ++( 3x10’s, 1x9)= 39pts = new 10 -------------- 7 NM ++ (2x7’s, 2x9’s)= 32pts= could be rounded up to new 8
Chris here - I get what you’re going for here and in theory it makes sense. But man oh man it’s going to really upset people however you do it. Thanks for watching.
People chasing black label cuz blackel still has more value than psa 10. I wonder if fanatic will buy bgs. I like TAG grading cuz they show you why you get the grade you get. If bgs did something like that.
Chris here - the clarity of the slabs looks amazing. But the detailed report honestly does nothing for me. PSA values blow it away so for now, I’ll stick with them. But I like stuff I’ve seen TAG doing at shows. There’s potential there.
BGS has gotten way to expensive. A dual graded 1973 topps Nolan Ryan Auto is $35 from PSA. BGS wanted $115. Also, if I had $2700 to choose a Corbin Carrol card…. I would buy a low grade Jordan rookie over any of them. MLB ROYs haven’t kept their value lately. No one is collecting Kyle Lewis or Jonathan India
Chris here - great point about MLB ROY. Definitely been a few players lately who haven’t maintained that level of production. I have to say, way more jordan rookies out there than we think. Especially in that mid grade level. Thanks for watching and commenting!
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I'm a collector. Been collecting since 98. I like BGS just the way they are. Personally I like BGS over PSA... I'm not a flipper so I'm not worried about the so called values. I like to know why my cards got a certain grade.
Chris here - that’s totally fair. If you like the slabs and don’t mind the customer service, then more power to you. Do you like to have your collection in the same slabs? For continuity?
I’m not a flipper either, but I’m always interested in the value of my cards. Even my favorite PC Cards - I won’t own them forever.
Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts.
If Fanatics bought out TAG put a kiosk in key LCS's ( probably few to start as space is likely an issue). Grade cards while you shop. If they could prove/ validate consistency, would be an interesting venture. Issue would come down to cost and winning over the masses. Simple and convenient is a big seller. Just my 2 cents. Anyways love the show guys keep em coming!
Thanks for watching!
Chris here - I love the idea, basically what some companies offer at bigger shows. For a higher price.
Personally, I think fanatics woukd rather buy a company like Beckett for the increased name recognition. But we won’t know until they do something.
I only used BGS for patch cards because of sub grades. Patch cards have more dimensions so I figure the sub grades is a better choice. I typically use SGC and PSA. I hope BGS figures things out. Fanantics should do a partnership with CGC or just buy TAG.
100% the stack of cards. Good topics, enjoy listening to you all.
Thanks for watching band commenting!
As I recall with BGS, with few exceptions, the final BGS grade can only be 0.5 above the lowest subgrade... so they are rarely overgraded. They don't damage your cards in the grading process like PSA commonly does (10-15% in my experience). SGC has more consistent grading than PSA, but cards can shift in the holders as well. BGS slabs are more protective than the others. They are truly archival. No PVC that touches the card (and the damaging breakdown products that occur with PVC breakdown- acids and alcohol by-products). The inert polypropylene inserts are like all modern soft/penny sleeves- are all a little cloudy unfortunately. Subgrades/reports will become more essential in the future (look at TAG). BGS is already there, just needs fine tuning.
This is exactly how I imagine Beckett leadership meetings go, people just reading arguments out loud preaching to the choir ignoring the dying brand ignorant what customers really want, sad to see a historic brand disappear because business leaders don’t know how to live up to their companies history
Chris here - I’ve seen a lot of people who’ve realized the inside sleeve of their bgs slabs is melted to the card after cracking the case. Not system is perfect.
Beckett was the leader, but they let themselves fall behind and now they’re obsolete. No other way to say it. The value for their slabs - outside of the older bowman chrome first autos, graded when Beckett was king - just isn’t there.
Thanks for watching!
@@mauriciobori Chris here - agreed!
10-15% seems outrageous. You personally have that amount of your submitted cards damaged by PSA? I've submitted thousands and it's only happened once to me. Can you clarify?
@@His.Wickedness Yes, my last two PSA orders had a ridiculous number of damaged cards coming back to me. They were all vintage card, pre-1986. I surmise that the damage occurred when reinserting the cards back into and out of the penny sleeves during the speedy grading process. When you rush the corners can often dinged and edges chipped. I'm sure you have noted this with your own cards. If you don't believe me take 10 1985 Topps cards and try it. Use your 10x magnifier and take a photo of the pre and post penny sleeve insert process. Do it twice for each card (as PSA does for each card) and let us know what you see! If you rush you will damage ~10% of your cards, and I believe this is precisely what happened at PSA.
Regarding the inner sleeve on BGS holders, polypropylene is inert and does not stick to cardboard. PVC breaks down over time- acids and alcohols are released. Who knows how that slow breakdown process will damage the cardboard within the holders. This is the reason that National archivers recommend polypropylene inserts for stamps and other important paper products.
We need an industry wide grading scale. This way, the only thing the companies are fighting for are good prices, and we, the consumer, know how things are being graded from these companies that we are trusting.
All BGS has to do is change the grading scale and put the grading fee at $10 a slab. Within a couple years, they’ll be right back up near the top
Dropping the price to $10 would be a great start!
I’ve always liked the BGS holder more than any other holder. The most important thing to me is the protection of the card after it’s encased. Obviously, the company has flaws, but there’s no rattling around with their cases.
Chris here - good point. The card sleeve inside the slab is the best part of BGS right now. Card is protected better than any other slab.
The majority of my collection are in PSA slabs, but most of my more expensive cards are in Beckett slabs. I would actually prefer it if they were all in Beckett slabs because I like the extra protection the penny sleeve adds and I like that the slabs themselves are much sturdier. I also like the squareness of them.
I currently have quite a few cards in PSA slabs that move around inside of them and that can easily cause damage. I do not like that whatsoever. I have never come across any cards moving around in BGS cases. Beckett has a lot of good attributes and if I’m going to spend a lot of money on a card then I want it to be well protected. I believe BGS does the absolute best job with this. However, I do wish the Beckett cases were more clearer and I’d really like it if they got rid of those tin labels. Especially the little squared autographed grade label on the side because nothing looks unison. I actually think their labels looked better when they had the autograph grade in the back. In any event, they should definitely move away from the old fashioned tin label because it looks way too dated and a lot of them fall off inside the case…..
SGC slabs on the other hand, look and feel way too cheap for me. Those slabs look like something anyone can make from their local Michael’s store. I like the black border idea, but SGC should’ve changed the overall look and stability of their cases when they switched labels. Not to mention changing the size because those slabs are way too big for no reason. I personally only buy SGC slabs if they are an absolute steal. Otherwise, I rather pay more for a PSA or BGS for the reasons I mentioned.
CGC have nice and clear slabs, but there aren’t many cards that I’m looking to buy in those slabs and it’s not really worth it to me to switch to them.
So I’m with you when you say that you like Beckett and don’t want to see them fail because I feel the same way. Hopefully, BGS makes changes to become more modern. They should focus on making their app and website to be more like PSA’s and to make everything work flawlessly together in their own ecosystem. Beckett can easily modify things…..
Def would prefer to have the group of Corbin autos. RPAs are awesome, but I'd rather have those classic autos any day. Great stuff ya'll!
Chris here - yep, agreed! I’d take the 3.
I like the BGS 9.5 as it’s perfect when there is a huge price variation for a PSA 9 and 10.
For example, the 1989 Score Barry Sanders PSA 10 goes for around $1,300 and the PSA 9 goes for $125. I feel the 10 is overpriced and the 9 is underpriced. A BGS 9.5 can go for around $250-$500 depending on the subgrades. That price is the perfect sweet spot for me in the hobby as I just can’t find it for so many PSA slabs.
Chris here - I love this. Exactly what collectors should do. Look for situations to exploit and buy what works for them. Good work!
Thanks for watching!
Great discussion fellas. I don't know, I'm in the minority on this. The variance on the subs is bothersome, I get that. But at the same time, I really like the granularity on the big cards. Case in point...look at the pwcc premier auction this month. They have a 'psa 10' Kareem sticker. Go look at it. Even for PSA standards, that centering is *not* 10 worthy. I think you need a grade between 9s and 10s for those big cards.
Chris here - personally I’d like to see PSA tighten up their centering standards. I can ignore a small surface defect - especially in a slab where you can’t even see it - but an off centered card just jumps out at you as not gem worthy.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
The best thing about beckett is their baseball encapsulation, I wish PSA could use the same holder as beckett, because they're sharp!
Chris here - I have to check those out. Thanks for the tip!
BGS obviously was a wild failure of comical level execution (lack there of) during the pandemic boom. BGS grading is a tough ship to save at this point, which I say as someone who valued BGS > PSA as a kid in the late 90s/early 2ks when I first sent my MJs, Kobes and Vince Carters to them before i left the hobby in high school. And even when I came back in 2015 I still valued BGS as at least on par with PSA, but honestly I think I liked them more at the time.
I know this competes with Tpott's baby, but I still can't believe they haven't used the Beckett brand and build a viable collection/card value tracking subscription software tool during this boom as well. Obviously Beckett magazine was the golden standard that every card collector older than 25 or so probably remembers. Those goober exec's at Beckett just let all that built in goodwill and brand value within the hobby/market evaporate into nothing.
Chris here - Beckett was THE name in the hobby. It’s insane what’s happened to it. Just zero innovation, zero effort. It’s hard to even wrap your head around it. Makes no sense.
It’s really a shame.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
So true, really blew all the goodwill built into the Beckett name.
But, if we all want grader's notes in the long run, aren't subgrades a cheaper, more concise version of this?
Chris here - I missed this one but I have to agree with your point here.
Grading can be frustrating but adding in notes from the graders will slow the process to a crawl!
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Pookie Butts for President...'24
😂😂😂
The grading scale is the same but from what I’ve seen is they are grading more BGS 10’s so their grading standards are a lot looser compared to 5 years ago, so we will see more 10’s from them no matter what anyways. Also yes, they need a new slab that is thinner with a better label, and get rid of the no subgrade option.
The bgs slabs take up a LOT of space. A thinner slab would be a nice improvement!
I always loved the BGS holder since I was a teen 20 years ago, one minor issue with the sub grades is it generally makes the overall grade itself more accurate and more likely to have a card grade lower which the “sellers” don’t want & collectors don’t really either but collectors do want accurate grades and sellers would rather have an inaccurate 10 grade than an accurate 9.5.. if that makes sense
Chris here - I like the holder for it’s extra level of card protection.
One thing I’ll say a about subgrades - I never understood how a card with a 9 grade centering could be a 9.5. How do great corners, edges and surface make the centering better? If some part is a 9, it should be a 9!
Just my opinion.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Thank you for your response and I agree! That reinforces why ppl would rather have the simple PSA 9 or 10 but I like the more accurate (generally) and more transparent sub grade system for sure
So if bgs would automatically make their 9.5s to 10s... how do they change the subs? So 3 9.5s and a 9 would be a 10?? Or even 4 9.5s would be a 10? It wouldn't make sense.
Chris here - this definitely wouldn’t make any sense. Min gems are closer to 9’s than 10’s.
The scale bgs uses is one thing that sets them apart. I definitely wouldn’t change that. It’s the least of their problems.
@@SpitballinCardshow is a min gem, with three 9.5 and one 9 closer to a 9 than 10? Crack and cross is the only way…
The only people that defend bgs do so because they have bgs slabs. Psa is still and probably will always be the golden standard.
If I were Fanatics and wanted to get into grading, I don’t think I would do it by trying to resurrect BGS. I think the BGS brand and the business model are just too difficult and cumbersome. I suppose Fanatics could attempt to acquire BGS’s assets and employees, rebrand everything, institute a new grading scale and business model, and launch a new grading service. It would make sense to make it part of the Fanatics ecosystem along with PWCC. The Dynasty RPA is a sweet card. I’d rather have one card I love than three cards I like.
Hey John, Chris here.
Beckett has so much history in the hobby. It’s a name, a brand. I could see fanatics thinking it could restore Beckett to former glory. Maybe easier than a company like TAG.
One card I love over 3 I like? I couldn’t agree more!!
Thanks for watching!
T-Pott spesks way more sense than 99% of politicians
👏 BGS you had control of it and I you've done nothing to cement your future in the hobby.
🍻
Chris here - exactly. BGS really let itself go. Such a shame.
I can’t stand BGS’s labels. They are always crooked and falling apart. So junk
Enjoy the conversations. So glad baseball season is back
Chris here - a slab with a crooked label is so infuriating. Should never be sent out like that.
@@SpitballinCards agreed. Just so many like that with janky labels. . I crack almost every BGS slab I buy. Can’t stand looking at them. Thanks for the response
@@ryanra44 💯
A buddy got one back with the label half covering the damn card!! Why’d they even ship that?!
Stop lying 😂😂😂
@@controversialcardchannel why would I lie. I can gladly show MULTIPLE pictures of BGS slabs with tags falling off
BGS absolutely need to get rid of gem mint 9.5 and call it gem mint 10 like everyone else. It completely fucks over BGS for value because as mentioned, the entire market is going for the 10 grade - and no one considers BGS 9.5 equivalent, due to saying 9.5 at the top instead of 10.
They should keep black label as the top end grail grade for hobby. Pristine (non-black label) probably gets lost in the shuffle, but it would be worthwhile to get BGS gem rates equivalent to PSA/CGC and the "gem mint" grade up to a 10.0. Boo 9.5
The saying in coins not as sophisticated a hobby as ball cards🙄 is buy the coin not the holder. If you can't tell the difference between a Beckett 9.5 and psa 10 geez which one should i buy? Michael Harris beckett 9.5 sold for $2025. Same as a psa 9. It's a no lose situation to the buyer. The emperor isnt wearing any clothes.
Chris here - yes indeed, there are ample opportunities to find bargains within the card grading world.
Three austin Riley bowman chrome gold autos sold last week on the same day. Three different grades, all gem mints. Very wide variance in prices.
I sent in 34 one piece tcg cards on the special... They gave me 18 tens. one piece has a very high pop for BL. Almost all of the 10 were knocked for surface.. I used a 10x mag and micro. That is clear pop control. Its a shame bgs has become what it has. I hate the fact I could send every 9.5 again and get 10s and all the 10s will eventually get a BL.I would understand if it was anything but surface but surface is the reason not a single card got black label where some of the cards have like 240 BL. Not to mention the time. I sent in early feb and I just get them back monday. I sent to psa basically march on the mlb special and got them back a week ago. BGS is just falling off to me.
Totally agree. Chris here and yeah bgs is like that handsome friend in high school who just totally let himself go.
A riley greene Bowman auto /50 sold for $200 more in a bgs 9.5 then a psa 9 back on the 7th so it's still turning a profit for people with bgs cards currently
And another one just sold right now for about $70 more
@@shalawamyasharahla seems like it’s trending in the wrong direction…
We’re those min gem 9.5’s or pure gems?
@@SpitballinCards both were min gem.
@@shalawamyasharahla savvy collector knew the card had a flaw!
Those 9.5’s would of been PSA 10’s though
From a collector's point of view I take the stack. From investor's point of view this is tough. 4 cards says to me less risk vs 1 card. However rarity matters. Not sure the rarity of all 5 cards.
I do wonder hype before a player get call up to the majors or hype for a player heading into there second season.
BGS needs to make getting a black label a little easier. I think the black label is the only thing bgs has over other grading companies. No one wants to send their modern cards in to get a 9.5
It pains me to send money to California or support anything in that state, for that reason I usually go with BGS
Chris here - whatever your reasoning, you’re costing yourself value with your collection. No way around it. PSA slabs add the most value. Best bang for your buck.
Spot on...Fornia sucks!!!
@SpitballinCards I know I'm in the minority these days, but I truly just like to collect cards. I don't typically sell cards and only have them slabbed to protect them. I know its sad to say, but more people need to be reminded that money isn't everything.
@@mangobango6970 I understand that. Most of my collection - Freeman, Acuna, other Braves cards, SSP - I have because I love the cards.
But if I’m grading a card, I’m investing in my card. I want the best value.
I know i think my favorite cards are forever PC Cards, but that’s just not realistic.
Also, purely aesthetically, I like how PSA slabs look together. Different slabs in my shelf sets off my OCD.
Agree w Tpott. Disagree it’s an upgrade. The gold labels are graded gem mint, whatever you make for a change, need to keep them gem mint. Pristine and black label should be differentiated. All the true gem, min gem, true gem plus stuff is all BS. The same cards in the same condition are in PSA 10 holders…. People want a breakdown for their grades, and BGS gives you that. If you look how BGS gems currently, their rates aren’t far different from PSA. BGS has beat holders, PSA has a great registry…
Great chat
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for commenting!
Sometimes i think you guys are sophisticated. Sometimes not. Fanatics owning a grading company is a conflict of interest. Not by law of course, the hobby is not regulated, but nevertheless. The flip side is that PSA if it has too much of a monopoly that's not good either. Fanatics is gonna fail. It will be a minute but they will bleed money until they fail. Just like they ruined ball park memorabilia, they will ruin cards, if they buy beckett see above for conflict of interest. There needs to be less product , way less throw away product and way less breaks. 10x the hobby will be the kiss of death. 2x to 3x in 10 years would be good.
Chris here - glad to hear we occasionally sound sophisticated!
I think you’re right about fanatics owning a grading company. Coukd definitely be a problem. But so far they seem to want to control everything around the hobby. Not ideal for collectors, for sure.
I couldn’t agree more with on this point - we need less products. Better products. Not watered down parallels and 800,000+ base cards.
Thanks for watching!
Wow you smucks only care about what beckett can do for you since you already paid. Beckett is looking at the customer who is coming through the door tomorrow. Lowered prices and kept everything the same. I love it. I'm getting an order ready now to send!
Chris here - lower prices is a good start. But since their slabs are worth significantly less than PSA slabs, their prices should be significantly less than PSA.
I just don’t see any reason to sub with them right now. Value isn’t there for me.
But that’s just my opinion. To each their own in this hobby.
Thanks for watching!
My issue is that their bulk “lower price” is still more expensive than the other three grading companies. Every other service level is essentially the same as psa… they need to beat psa in pricing, not match them for a large group of people to send to them
Please report back how the submission process goes - hoping they made some improvements on that end. Historically was much more of a headache that the PSA process.
BGS needs to maintain what they are doing but remain socially. They rock and sub grades are very important. People are smart enough to figure out 9.5 Gem Mint is Gem Mint. It’s not science and your thinking wayyyyyyy toooo much. Good stuff
Chris here - thanks for watching and commenting.
Sun grades and 9.5 Grades are what set BGS apart. Too late to change that now!
Do you all think if Beckett doesn't make it the existing cards will still hold the same value?
I agree that BGS is beyond repair. They will slowly go out of business and then get bought and shut down.
I also agree that Dynasty RC's are super overvalued at the moment. In fact all dynasty cards from 2023 are selling for triple what they did in the past. I wish my older dynasty cards would spike up in value to match.
Chris here - I could see something like Fanatics buying Beckett and trying to resurrect the brand. But would it work? I doubt it.
Dynasty looks good. It does. But it’ll never be like RPA’s in other sports because the Bowman Chrome auto comes first.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Obligatory comment in support of the channel.
Obligatory response appreciation.
I just posted a video about grading. I am not a fan of BGS slabs.
Understandable!
The BGS holder is by far the best one in the hobby aesthetically. Could be a little more clear, and sure add a QR code on the back, but it’s visually the best and it isn’t close.
Chris here - it definitely provides the best protection, but to me it’s bulky and whisk the inter sleeve is great for the card, it hides a lot of shine from refractors. Just my two cents.
Thanks for watching!
tag grading is def better or right below it. those slabs are gorgeous in person
@@cardsncrypto5819 i think they are right there. I like the clarity of tag better but the actual slab of BGS better. nothing compares.
@@SpitballinCards theres absolutely things to like and hate about all slabs, but saying PSA has a nicer slab is crazy. They are probably the most basic slab in the world. I do most of my business with them now despite being a BGS fanboy (values amirite), but no argument between the two for purely visual is legit
@@kylemclaren8772 values - 💯!
PSA slabs are basic, but that’s fine with me. When I stated seeing bgs slabs with the gold flip half out of place and all crooked, I was off officially done.
I do like that the card doesn’t rattle around at all.
Got to completely disagree with T-Pott. BGS is consistently or grading a little more month to month and so on. Do you know the employee size of Beckett? If they were sinking, they would’ve been sold a long time ago. I’ve watched SCI since before T-Pott started working for Geoff and ever since, SCI has completely pumped PSA. People like to collect rare things and everyone wants to call this the junk slab era when it’s the PSA junk slab era. Beckett did the right thing by not changing. People remember that Beckett was and is always about the collector. What has PSA done or what will people remember about PSA? That influencers pumped PSA in 2018/19 and during Covid and now there’s a bunch of garbage out there. Only reason most people grade with PSA is because right now, you’ll get more money for reselling and most people right now are just reselling and not collecting.
Chris here - I have to disagree with you. Beckett was about the collector at one point, but if you’ve subbed with them over the last 5 years there is no less collector friendly experience. zero customer service. No order updates. Just an absolute mess they felt no need to change or improve.
Can they be saved? Possibly, but it’s less and less likely every day.
90% of my PC is in PSA slabs, and I can’t see that changing.
You’re right - we are in a junk slab era. And also junk parallel, junk auto era.
Yeah, collectors are grading cards that aren’t worth grading. I mean, how many 2020 Topps base cards if Arestides Aquino were graded??
Thanks for watching. I always appreciate hearing from other collectors, whether we agree or disagree.
@@SpitballinCards Beckett definitely hired some bad people. Rubin did too with Luber. I’ve subbed with BGS a little over the past 5 years and the app than wasn’t that bad. They certainly can improve and I’m hoping they do. These new guys don’t appear to be about wanting to be cool/hip or the next new fad, but we’ll see. Most my slabs are PSA too.
They need to incentivize the brick and mortar stores more.
Chris here - I’d like to see more of this as well. Long live our hobby shops!
The 3 are action shots...the RPA doesn't do anything for me as a collector.
Chris here - at that price, I agree!
100% agree with ty you need a bgs 10 gem mint no 9.5. Literally the absolute leader does it people don’t buy bgs anymore they are sending a message super stubborn from bgs not to change seeing customers literally ignore them
🍻
Chris here - changing the gem mint grade from a 9.5 to a 10 would do nothing for me.
They’ve used their scale for 20+ years and it’s too late to change it. They have so many actual issues that need addressing!
Sounds to me like your waiting for Beckett to announce the Details of their comeback. I spoke to my BGS rep last week and this is what i got from it. Their Customer Service will be a Priority and Transparency is very important to them.
* The Pricing was Cheaper than PSA
* They are Offering an Option of Sub Grades or No Sub Grades Service. Seemed like there was a $2 difference.
* NO Up-charges at all
* Doing more grading in person and and at shows.
* Cross grading where they will look at your card from other company and only grade the card if they feel it deserves a better grade.
*
We recorded this 5 days ago. Missed the update by a few days- looks promising to some extent
Only tie breakers(++)should be even considered…to be rounded up. Hence, use a total point score system equal to tie breakers. You are going to have another financial crisis getting rid of all 9.5’s. All 9.5’s are NOT the SAME.!!Nice try..and absolutely NO downgrades.
Just do the math…guys….
9 Mint ++ (2x9’s, 2x9.5’s) = 37pts = could be considered as a new rounded up 9.5
Or
9 mint ++ ( 3x9’s, 1x10)=37pts= new 9.5
--------------
9.5 Gem Mint ++( 2X9.5’s, 2x10’s)= 39pts= new 10
9.5 Gem Mint ++( 3x10’s, 1x9)= 39pts = new 10
--------------
7 NM ++ (2x7’s, 2x9’s)= 32pts= could be rounded up to new 8
Chris here - I get what you’re going for here and in theory it makes sense. But man oh man it’s going to really upset people however you do it.
Thanks for watching.
It seems like taking the 3 cards instead of 1 is a safer bet for investors.
Chris here - idk. You spread out to lesser sets, parallels and you run a greater risk of owning something the hobby will stop caring about.
I’d take the stack, 10 Out of 10 times!
I clicked because of the Ohtani card.
Thumbnail work paying off!!
Nooooo…. Not my OG Beckett 😔
It’s painful to see. Chris here and Beckett magazine arrival day was one of my favorite days of the month as a kid!!
@@SpitballinCards mine as well 😔
lol. Imagine calling Beckett inconsistent while holding up PSA as an example of consistency. Hilarious.
None of them are perfect, but only one is grading around 80% of the cards in the hobby.
People chasing black label cuz blackel still has more value than psa 10. I wonder if fanatic will buy bgs. I like TAG grading cuz they show you why you get the grade you get. If bgs did something like that.
Chris here - I’ll be honest, it can be too much info. I’ll just take the grade.
Thanks for watching!
Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one.
I like the Tin Man 🤝
Fuerte
🔥🔥🔥
"SCI Pump" 😆
😢😢
Love me some BGS. Dont love some Mookie… 😂😂😂
Chris here - I won’t show Scott this comment 😂😂
They still are the only one you can send a thick card to.
Not exactly true, I sent an O'Neil cruz spectra auto /49 to psa and got a ten which was crazy
@@shalawamyasharahla yeah but 9 times out of 10, not so much
@@cditsious Chris here - this is spot on. PSA really seems to hate thicker cards!
Cringe....Its not too late to delete this video 😂
Chris here - I didn’t get any candy on Sunday!
Yes. Broken gradings services. 🎉 TAG only for me. 🎉🎉
TAG looks nice and very detailed on grading too.
Chris here - the clarity of the slabs looks amazing. But the detailed report honestly does nothing for me.
PSA values blow it away so for now, I’ll stick with them.
But I like stuff I’ve seen TAG doing at shows. There’s potential there.
BGS has gotten way to expensive.
A dual graded 1973 topps Nolan Ryan Auto is $35 from PSA.
BGS wanted $115.
Also, if I had $2700 to choose a Corbin Carrol card…. I would buy a low grade Jordan rookie over any of them. MLB ROYs haven’t kept their value lately. No one is collecting Kyle Lewis or Jonathan India
Chris here - great point about MLB ROY. Definitely been a few players lately who haven’t maintained that level of production.
I have to say, way more jordan rookies out there than we think. Especially in that mid grade level.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
I want them to do well…. The mlb is very difficult to be great, and almost impossible to be a legend.
BGS is way to expensive.
💯💯💯