Proper Violin Holding? No Shoulder Rest??
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- Опубликовано: 26 авг 2022
- CORRECTION: Shoulder rest was invented in the mid- 20th century.
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I think the real reason many teachers are asking their students to not play with shoulder rests is that there’s no real issue with playing with one but it disguises some bad habits easier since it keeps the violin in a fixed place.
I think one simple example is people driving an automatic or manual car, both can reach the destination and be good/bad drivers for different reasons; but driving manual forces you to think of revolutions and can make you more flexible in a few situations than automatic drive. Ideally you would like to be able to drive both and choose by preference not by lack of knowledge but it’s not a must if you want to drive.
Excellent video!
So good to hear you explore the various ideas, especially the damping of the sound. I've heard several players swear that using a shoulder rest 'damps the true sound of the violin', but as you point out, the opposite is likely to be true!
Great that you say: "try everything, all the time - find what works for you!" The mark of a true teacher.
I find that bow control is easier without a shoulder rest...which does improve my tone. But that's just me.
Awesome! Thanks!!
Dear Joy 😀 thank you for all the careful thought you put into your videos. I always learn something from them. Thank you.
Thankyou! The part about shifting the angle of the violin to let the playing string to be on the top was eye opening for me. Now need to go practice this :)
So glad to hear it was helpful to you Simon. Happy practising!
Another wonderful video by a wonderful teacher! ❤❤❤
Thank you Sara! 😃
Thank you. Very informative
You're most welcome Neil. Happy practising!
Very good information Joy, Thank you so much 🙏🙏🙏
Glad it was helpful! Thank you as well! :)
This is a good topic for the violin players. I just get ride of my shoulder rest recently, and put a suck on my shoulder to make my neck comfortable. And my granddaughter also followed me to get ride of her shoulder rest and put one of my sucks on her shoulder. The good news for me is that I don't suffer the neck stiffness right now. The bad news for my granddaughter Lisa is that I have to remind her more often to raise her violin neck.
But when I asked her: "Do you want to use your shoulder rest?"
She answered: "NO!"
Thanks!
Beautiful information
Thank you! Happy practising!
Brilliant, thank you
You're very welcome. Thank you also Ivrz!
Joy, great video.
I agree with all your points and observations. I have been “experimenting” with violin and viola for a few years now, and I have played with and without one on both, and I still need the shoulder rest on the viola full time, because it is awkward and bulky, and I can only do without it for simple stuff in first position. On violin, string repositioning is easier without one, but shifting into higher positions is tougher to control as you said. I also have a bony collarbone, and do need padding for comfort either way. As always, thanks for your wonderful insights. You are truly a master teacher. 😘👨🏻🎻🥳
Thank you Miss Lee. your sharing makes sense to me as a self learning beginner.
You are so welcome. Thank you also William. Happy practising!
Muy interesante! Muchas gracias por compartir! 👏👏👏👏👏💜🎶💜🎻
once again a great video - so much knowledge and logic to absorb. thank you. I watch your vids as motivation to practice. 'scuse me. gotta go. gonna work on some arpeggios
Thanks شكرا
You are really & truly "the violin teacher I "should have had, 51yrs ago." - no kidding-!!!
My last instructor (Russian male) got frustrated with me during a lesson because I kept pausing to adjust and re-adjust my shoulder-rest, until he grabbed my violin, ripped off my shoulder-rest and threw it out the window(-!!!), ...no real harm, that window opened out onto our back balcony, ...but, still ~
He said, " In Russia we didn't have all these 'cute' affectations and "accessories", ...heck, our strings were sometimes "chicken wire."
Gruffly handing it back to me, he said, "Play", ...because when I was young and back in Russia, we knew that if we didn't play, and play ''well'', the next day we would be signed up in a factory for the rest of our life; no kidding-!!!
It worked - that, and, watching in slow motion, old RUclips videos of David Oistrakh and how he held his violin while playing {and, no, it didn't have anything to do with him having fat & flabby jaws}, ...if you'll notice, whenever he would play in the 1st and 2nd position, he would always lean his left-jaw onto the back left corner of the violin "to hold it in place", however, whenever he played in 3rd, 4th and higher positions, he would lean, (from his waist), backwards, pushing the violin farther into his neck {balanced upon the collar-bone, as it should be all the time for maximum flexibility}
...but by doing that, I, and million of other violin students and performers, would look in awe at how he would flex his neck and lift his head upwards, with no contact, facially, with the violin, because it was secured by the 'heel' of the left-hand {in 3rd, 4th and higher positions}, allowing him to flex and, in essence, relax his left-shoulder, upper left arm and allow him to even twist his neck freely, to "catch a breath", so to speak.
By observing and mimicking his motions, and watchingmore {all in slow-motion}, I, too, was able to free up my, heretofore, 'blocked' left shoulder and even experience a "pain-free" left shoulder and enjoyable playing for the 4 decades since.
There are fabric (fleece?) pads you can put on the chin rest. That might help someone play without a shoulder rest.
I think a student needs to try these things, and to try one or two kinds of shoulder rests and constantly adjust and experiment.
I think there’s some elitist mentality to people who think shoulder rests aren’t needed. I’m very tall and slender with a long neck. I can play without one, however it’s extremely uncomfortable and gives me lasting back pain. If I try playing with correct posture without one, the violin moves too freely and I don’t have control or security. I use a medium tall shoulder rest, with a center chin rest. It allows me to be able to hold the violin and play with correct posture without pain for many hours, so I can focus on my sound, and not my form ;)
Yep, shoulder rest is very useful for comfort
Likely your chin rest is far too short.
The shoulder rest is a substitute for providing support to the instrument via the left hand i.e. you still need an appropriately sized chin rest else you are using a shoulder rest to raise the instrument off youre collar bone (in other words: not holding the instrument correctly).
@@landanheath It is nothing more than a substitute for providing support to the instrument via the left hand.
It's not an elitst mentality. Different people have different bodies. I'm exteremly tall (6'9") and shoulder rests are uncomfortable for me. I prefer to play without one. People can suggest different things but it's about what going to work for you anatomically.
for me (viola) it is middle-chinrest and with shoulder rest - maybe the ones i tried arent the perfect one for me yet (still trying different ones if i can) but damn, my neck would kill me if i did without. and being in pain for sure will not improve my sound 🤷🏼♀️ (well if we ignore the ’practiced too much and now my entire body is sore’ thing… because that i cant avoid)
I tried for a couple of days without a shoulder rest. But I learned with a shoulder rest and I just don't have the wherewithal to learn a new style of playing. I especially found it hard to shift down. But the violin does resonate better. It's just hard enough as it is so I just prefer to use my shoulder rest in my center Mount chin rest
Dear Debbie, each of us has to find the best and most comfortable way of playing the violin in one's own way. Bravo to you for giving a serious try. I wish you healthy and happy violin playing!
I was happy to learn that I can play without the shoulder rest and that I can move the violon during the play. Merci! Tu es toujours intéressante. (From Quebec Canada)
Thank you Joy. I like that you are open minded to playing sans SR. Unfortunately many teachers require their students to use SR which is not necessarily the best playing solution for all players. Personally, I have a large collection of SR many expensive too. I find the most comfort sans SR using only a small pad. However, it does mute the instrument a bit. As always keep up your wonderful work!
My teacher in violin community said that I shouldn't use shoulder rest in the beggining learning violin, but I think the most important in learning violin is comfortable playing,
then I try it and without sholder rest make my neck stiff..So till now I still use shoulder rest because I can practice longer and I am able to focus on learning process other then back to basic posture thing like how to hold violin without sholder rest..
Hi Puji, Good for you that you tried and found a way which works better for you. I think it is always worth trying ways which makes our violin playing easier and better. Happy trying!
Dear Joy, I have not been viewing regularly but been doing other things. How would you recomend vibrato method?😅
I had to go with a flesh simple round center Mount to get this posture it wasn't working for me to have a side chin rest I have so much less shoulder pain and elbow pain. I had a frozen shoulder and was developing tennis elbow but that's slowly going away now
Hi Debbie, After quite a struggle and buying lots of expensive SR and I removed it some years ago. It took me almost a year to get to the appropriate technique, relaxation and posture. Once I catched it, I began starting all my students without a SR, getting much better results. After couple of years without, I wouldn't go back to a SR because violin just fits me much better. My center chin rest, didn't work for me. I use the typical Guarneri chin rest, but quite a deep one. It allows me to move more freely. I do use a small cloth pad so It doesn't slide, and to give some cushion to my clavicle.
@@SofiaViviEnDo we are also completely different. Something about the side chin rest makes me strain my shoulder left shoulder now that I've put the chin rest right square in the center it's just a better alignment for my body
@@SofiaViviEnDo I gave up on not using a shoulder rest because I don't have a year to spend not playing with people and at school and orchestras and all that type of thing I just can't so I'm comfortable with my Everest
Here is an something I have never heard a comment about and that is jaw position...do you keep your jaw closed or open? I am having some TMJ issues lately and find practicing a bit painful
Hi Raymond, I myself keep my jaw slightly open as this will help me to stay relaxed. You can close the jaw, but make sure not to crunch it much. Happy and healthy playing!
Hi Joy, I was just wondering if you have another name like Choi or Chooi? When you say the 'J' in "Joy" it has a more aggressive/attack-to the-pronunciation with a sound like a "ch".
Just curious! I'm not intending to be mean or anything!
Great video yet again. I'm always showing your videos to my students as supplements when they're not in the classroom with me :)
Hi Liam, " Joy", " Choi" or " Chooiiii" whichever spoken works! As each person with a different background tends to pronounce my name as it works :) However the correct spelling of my name is "Joy". Thanks for sharing my videos with your students Liam!
I am overwhelmed. Sometimes I feel I am feeling worse not better. Why is violin so hard ? Can u do a video to help?
Dear Debbie, we all feel sometimes like that. It is important to plan your practice in an organized way , so that you can tackle specific things in a structured way. Here are some videos you could benefit from. Happy practising! ruclips.net/video/7T0FifRzKHM/видео.html ruclips.net/video/db_dVlGXroE/видео.html ruclips.net/video/qoLL9WIueL0/видео.html ruclips.net/video/aqNY0qjFz74/видео.html
I have been playing since I was in 5th grade I'm 43 now. Biggest tip I can give is when your learning a new song or what ever your learning it's 100percent ok to stop take a break. go do a load of laundry or something. Come back play something you have down and feel good about. Then go back to practicing what your learning.
I don't use a shoulder rest cuz my neck is short. I also put my chin on the right side of the violin because I have small arms.
Centuy = 100 years.
Decade= 10 years.
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