I'm now learning to play without a shoulder rest, and I feel like only now am I truly learning to hold and play a violin. All the tightness in my shoulder and neck that I developed from bad habits were masked and even made worse by using a shoulder rest! Now I am truly learning the delicate points of "holding" the violin, which now feels more like cradling it like a child and letting the movements be free and organic. Much much deeper insights come from playing without one!
I'm a beginner violinist, I've been playing the guitar for 5 years, but I've recently been inspired to learn and study classical music, and I simply adore it! Music has brought me so much joy!
Kyle Kwartel. Personally, I feel the term "violinist" is reserved for someone who is a somewhat advanced player. Imagine someone who isn't that advanced (say only grade 7 or 8) going to a study with Ivan Galamian (Perlman's former teacher) and says, "Mr Galamian, I'm a violinist. I'm at the grade 8 level, and I want to study with you." I'd be embarrassed to do that. It is much more humble to say, "I play the violin", and save oneself a lot of embarrassment. In the case of the violin player, the virtuoso standard "Zigueneriesen " by Sarasate is a safe measure to go by. That is, if you can play this piece well, and then call yourself a violinist, nobody will laugh at you, not even a reputable teacher like Galamian. If not, "I play the violin" is a safer way to go. What's even safer, is to avoid saying "I am a violinist" altogether, even if one is really good. Then people will call you a violinist even when you yourself don't.
@@nelsoncheng4638 Who cares? If he calls himself a violinist but isn't very good, so what? There are many different levels of skill a one might have and still be considered a violinist. Setting an arbitrary standard is only important for gate keepers. One person's violinist may be another's beginner, it's a subjective concept. TLDR: STFU, and let the beginner violinist call himself a beginner violinist, you punky twat. (sorry that wasn't you're fault, I'm in a tough place right now... I still think you're a snobby git, but, I'm sorry for taking out my frustration on you.)
@@nelsoncheng4638 nah screw that bro. That's the lamest shit I've ever heard. Yeah so what if you suck at violin and call yourself a violinist. "You might get judged by classical elitists" do I look like I give a shit. I ain't a pussy. Gotta have that GRINDSET. Can't be doubting yourself and pooping your pants because you're not a virtuoso yet. You need to be OVERconfident. You need to be embarrassment-maxxing. You need to be putting yourself out there. You need to double down.
@@Henry-fv3bcAnd you need to learn to be humble in life. The Bible says, “God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.” (1 Peter 5:5) Humble yourself before Almighty God and receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. The Bible says, 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. (John 3:36)
Learning to play without a shoulder rest is definitely worth the effort. It's very liberating. Noticing that I was naturally centering my chin, I simply modified a standard "guarneri" style chin rest by removing the chin cup. The remaining center piece is all that's necessary to comfortably hold the violin, and the reduced weight allows the violin to resonate even more. This set up works well for me, but I would imagine that it wouldn't work for everyone.
I've looked at a few videos and have tried without and it feels surprising comfortable with a small cloth underneath, Ill take the cloth off once my collarbone gets more used to it but I feel a lot closer to the violin
I played maybe 20 years with a shoulder rest. When the pandemic started, the orchestra was cancelled and I stopped playing. Three years later, I started playing for myself--neck pain kept me from using a shoulder rest. I'd play ten to fifteen minutes with a foam pad on my exquisitely sensitive collarbone. The violin would sometimes swing to my right or go with my thumb when I shifted down. Then I made a simple sling to keep the violin from moving as much. Now, four months later, the sensitivity has abated and I can play with my violin on my collarbone. My chin rest helps keep the violin from rocking around its long axis.
I learned to play without a shoulder rest and it’s actually quite easy. The only thing I have a lot of trouble with is doing Vibrato without a shoulder rest. I just can’t seem to do it
are you a guy? I ask because lots of woman violinists play with a naked shoulder which actually helps with the violin slipping, how do you not let it slip?
Menno Barten I’m a guy yes and you’re asking how I don’t let it slip? Basically just hold it up. People who use Shoulder Rests are so depended on it that when they switch to not using one they don’t hold it up because the should rest was already doing that for them.
Marquez Vigil Marquez Vigil I think I can answer your question then, for vibrato and shifting down you should be able to hold the violin with your neck and shoulder. But yeah, that way it starts slipping. Esther is luckily she can wear dresses n stuff since your skin actually is really helpful against the slipping.. you also never see her playing with a clothed shoulder
Im 14 and i have been playing for a year. Got my shoulder rest a few days ago. I dont like using it. Ive gotten soused to not using it, it feels awkward. Honestly it truly is personal preference. P.s. i play with shirts on and yes...it is a bit difficult but its all about practice. I dont think i'll ever play with a ahoulder rest unless i start doing SERIOUS vibrato exercises.
A bit of force with your thumb to hold onto the violin but don't grab it with your whole thumb, and a combination of the neck/jaw pressing down is what I usually do even with clothes on. It doesn't slip or move a lot for me.
You should look into the kreddle chin rest and cushion if you haven’t yet. I just bought one I love it. I’ve played with no shoulder rest for two years now, and finally decided to buy a adjustable chin rest to get the proper height and angle/grip that I need to maximize comfort. The Kreddle chin rest is the most versatile solution on the market for players that don’t use shoulder rests.
I'm an intermediate violinist (5th, 6th grade AMEB level) and having played for some years now was/am totally used to using a shoulder rest (Bonmusica) and, mistakenly as it turns out, always thought that playing without a shoulder rest would a/ hurt my collar bone b/ be difficult to keep steady and supported without the left hand constantly holding the violin in place. Neither of these are true as I found out by trying to play without a shoulder rest. I'm not using a centre chin rest but have one here should I feel the need for it. I'm really thinking of trying to play without using a shoulder rest and see if I enjoy it. Your tip about volume and tone production is absolutely true and a big incentive to becoming sans shoulder rest for keeps. Thanks for a great video !!
I am a fiddle player who plays without a shoulder rest. I encourage new students to do the same and try to teach them how to do this successfully. You have named every reason I too play this way. I do not want to ever wish to feel separated from my violin. Your "collar bone" will conduct sound vibration well, where a shoulder rest will dampen sound vibration, albeit subtly, but your ear, as well as mine, obviously is sensitive enough to discern the difference. Also, I have never once suffered neck pain since disposing of my shoulder rest. Finally, the extraordinary violinist, Joshua Bell, who is very wonderfully expressive and uses a shoulder rest, appears almost robotic while playing. this does not inhibit his virtuosity one bit. However, I can't help but wonder how much freer he might move and express himself without the shoulder rest. You are a wonderful violinist whom I follow closely. You are very inspirational and dare I say, a virtuoso for a new generation. Best wishes for your future.
I played without shoulder rest these days because there is no all-in-one shoulder rest. I have created a small wash sponge and fill out the incremental gap between my chin and my shoulder; I hide the sponge under my cloth and it is not obvious to be noticed :) As you said, it worked perfectly to change some positions that you can play. The traditional shoulder rest is ugly sometimes and yet does not serve the purpose because everyone has a different height of neck and length of shoulder. It sometimes also depends on the weight of violin. Some antique violins can be very light and playing without shoulder rest is actually quite fun.
I love this video as I do not use a shoulder rest. I used to feel awkward but this made me feel very content. I love you esther abrami. Keep inspiring ❤
You are absolutely amazing - and lovely, too. You have such a beautiful and distinct sound. I’ve always struggled with shoulder rests. You have encouraged me to play without and for good reason. Thank you🎻👏👏👏
I play the viola with a shoulder rest. I used to play without shoulder rest when I started, but then I needed one when I started to shift, especially shifting down (and it was even more comfortable for me cuz viola is pretty heavy). Sometimes I try to play without shoulder rest for fun. It's true that you get a way better sound, but it's much harder to me for shifting down and vibrato. So for the moment I kepp it, but maybe I'm definitely gonna take it off one day
I play without a shoulder rest and it has helped a lot for my back. The only thing is that it's a little more tiring because the shoulder rest helps to keep the violin a little upwards. And grips on clothes. When we don't have one it's all about posture. And sometimes I feel like I'm limited because of the fact that I don't have a shoulder rest. I just bought a 'playonair' one which is that kind of 'blow up' shoulder rest. Maybe that's the solution..
It is probably because you have nartow sloping clavicles or shoulders and a long neck I am 11 so I do not have that problem with neck length but sometimes I have bad pain in my clavicles but I put my shirt down to help reduce it
What about the bruise you get on your collar bone? I thought maybe it was just me, but it looks like you have one too. I don’t mind how it looks, but it is sensitive. Also, like others asked, are you able to play without anything if you’re wearing a soft sweater (jumper), or do you add something for grip?
I'm so glad I found this video. My whole life playing violin I felt out of place because i'm always the only one in all my orchestras that doesn't use a shoulder rest. due to financial reasons I didn't have one starting out, and now I play just fine without it and it feels awkward when I try to use one. I can shift and vibrato just fine. It just depends on how you learn. Thanks for making this video!
@Ericka : Since I am just starting, I would ask 2 important things. If you learn vibrato and shift without the shoulder rest, can you still do them with a shoulder rest? Because apparently if you learn shift and vibrato with a shoulder rest.. then you cannot do them without the shoulder rest. 2nd question: do you think beginning without a shoulder rest brings more chances of developing some kind of injuries (from bad posture, lift shoulder too much, lowering chin too much, sore shoulder/neck, etc). Many thanks!
@@RS-gm1qb hi! i just saw this! those are all definitely things to consider. I can still vibrato and shift with a shoulder rest, but it doesn't feel natural to me so I prefer without. I do think that there is a reason why shoulder rests are so popular and used by most violinists/violists. They avoid the redness i get on my collarbone from pressing the violin against it. As for bad posture, I think a shoulder rest helps, but i think that mostly comes from the way you train yourself to sit upright. But a shoulder rest definitely helps for training yourself to hold the violin up higher! hope this helps!
I've been playing without the shoulder rest for 2 years!!! Bonjour Esther♥ I am from the Philippines and my string orchestra(Manila Symphony Junior Orchestra) won 1st place at this year's Summa Cum Laude Music Festival♥♥♥ you are my idol💯🎻
I've had to give up violin entirely, due to a ruptured disc in my neck. Now, by playing without a shoulder rest and moving freely while I play, I'm able to play it a little. The freedom of movement makes the player more interesting to watch, too.
Try Indian style. Sit in a chair and support the scroll on a stand or on your right foot (if your hip can handle it). Bowing is trickier due to gravity, but the violin doesn't need to be supported at all
Without shoulder rest produces better sound from the violin. Looks graceful . I practice without shoulder rest. Esther you are inspiration to many like loving classical violin . we like your videos.
Centered chin rest - that's an awesome tip! I never thought about that! I've tried not using a shoulder rest some years ago and didn't feel comfortable. But I didn't realize that it may be my chin rest. I'll try that... as soon as I get a new chin rest ;)
Thank you Esther, after watching your video I tried in my practise without the shoulder rest. I found it quite comfortable and it certainly made a difference with the volume even with a mute which I usually use thinking of the neighbours. I will carry on with a slow change over as you suggest and see how it goes I was very impressed.
I have been playing guitar for 35 years. I started playing violin 15 years ago. I use a shoulder rest. When I practice a lot, I have a pinched nerve in my neck. I think if I didn’t use a shoulder rest it would be way more painful. I am not sure if it is such a good idea to play without one. I think it all depends on how long your neck is!
I just wanted to give you a heads up about the shoulder rest. When you play with it, usually you are holding the violin up with the head leaving the hand without much weight on it. Very painful for the neck as you are squeezing down a lot of the time against the lever that the rest creates. When you play without a shoulder rest you don’t do this as your left hand takes all of the weight and your head is only flopped onto the chin rest to stop the violin sliding past towards the chest. You have to learn to play a little differently with your left hand but it is without a doubt better for your neck. I am a Sax and guitarist so my neck told me this on day one 😄 Give it another try and see!
I dont get it. Why should it hurt so much. I mean even if it hurts with the shoulder rest you are doing something WRONG. Pain is alwys the indicator for WRONG. Also a pinched nerve is a indicator for WRONG. Its just that people started to care less and less after the heifetz generation about proper technique. I mean basically there are so few, i mean really so few violinist, that know how to hold the violin properly, that know every milimeter of their finger and what that milimeter does. It is really sad.
thankyou. i have tried in the past to play without one but i get frustrated so easily and revert back to the shoulder rest. im going to take your hints and try to be more patient because i do believe it will help me in the long run.
i have been playing without a shoulder . i agree with you esther . my violin does vibrate more and i truly appreciate you so much. i am double jointed too my left hand
I have cheap violin ( I'm adult beginner, so right now I don't need to have expensive violin… right now : p) and when I played with sholder and chin my violin sound horrible, metallic and scratchy. Right now I play without sholder and chin and they really sound much better. I can hear I fell on my shoulder those vibration and it's amazing feeling :)
Great to find this video. I have played without a shoulder rest for decades, and use a center chin rest as well. I was urged a few years ago to play with the shoulder rest again because I had a sore shoulder for a time, but just couldn't get back into it. I didn't know the violin was louder, but the sound is always more naturally resonant, less constrained. At times shifting and keeping the violin in proper position is problematic, still working on that.
Nice video Miss Esther. 👍 I am glad you realized that your shoulder rest was not needed . Also, you don’t have to worry about the shoulder rest slipping off when you are playing. 👌
Both sides have merit. However, I would say that for a beginner - a shoulder rest is vital as it makes it easier to hold violin and provides more stability in learning how to play initially. Once someone has progressed to playing for a few years, then yes, this may be an option.
I was trained to hold violin without shoulder rest when I was a kid, and I stopped playing for almost 12 years. Now I start again, and try shoulder rest, I feel very uncomfortable with it attached, and it's true it always falling off hahah
Thanks for your insights Esther. What's your argument to those who insist on not using a shoulder rest? They claim that way their violin resonates freer with bigger sound. In theory that may be true, but I feel comfort is priority. Agree? If I follow my ideal philosophy of simplicity and simplify by ditching the shoulder, then I'll be fussing with experimenting with the right chinrest or some pad......Which actually defeats the purpose of simplicity.
Hello! Nice video! I'm preparing a documentary on violin technique which will cover a lot of ideas about playing without SR. I'm going to be interviewing lots of pedagogues , soloists , orchestra players around the world to do this project, and I've already interviewed a number of them. I would like to address the first point that you made about holding the violin up. While it's true that some players say you have to do this, I feel that this advice is similar to those in the past who said not to put a cushion under the violin. The idea of playing without SR means you are free, and might constantly move around. You move the violin up when it's necessary to (for example for certain shifts or vibrato), but it's not a hard rule. The proof is just to watch videos of violinists such as Ida Haendel to give just one example. Most of the time her violin is rather low. The most difficult aspect of playing without SR is that it will be a very different experience for every violinist depending on finger length, hand size, neck length, head shape, collarbone, shape, and a combination of all these. Almost impossible to categorize. So while it's possible to give certain hints, every violinist will have to figure out for themselves what works for them in a comfortable way. In preparing for my documentary, I've read just about every article on this topic, and watched every single video there is on it. A lot of violinists are saying "do this or that", and while "this or that" works for those particular violinists, it won't work for others. So it becomes dangerous to teach how to play without SR if you are not aware of all the different variations in philosophies. Watch Anne Sophie Mutter, Itzhak Perlman, Jascha Heifetz to watch three completely different approaches to playing without SR.
I have a Markov rest which allows the violin to resonate beautifully, however, I haven't been playing for very long and need extra help at the moment. I will go back to the Markov eventually.
Hi Esther - I need to use a shoulder rest for comfort. My shoulder rest, however, is a 95-cent multi-use scrub sponge attached to my violin with three rubber bands. 😊 🎻🎶
. I never could get used to the shoulder rest, so from the time I started playing, I've never used it. I agree with you, in that there seems to be more freedom to move.
Its amazing to see as to how do you play without a sholder rest. But do you support violin with left thumb and contact of index finger or just thumb alone?
Me, personally I don't like shoulder rests, either. But playing without I don't like as well. So I' ve chosen a compromise and bought the Performa wood shoulder rest. It gives you the feeling of playing without a shoulder rest, while in reality you play the violin with it.
Even in the old days when Paganini played most Violinists had a little pillow on the shoulder under their jacket. I also like the acousta grip shoulder pillow it's much more comfortable then usual shoulder rests and i didn't recognize any sound loss. Also I think you would never play the Violin as good as you would if you use a shoulder rest because you're much more relaxed and you don't raise your left shoulder so your right hand can be completely free which again makes soloing easier. Anyhow it's interesting to see people playing that old fashion way. Greetings from Germany.
I just tried to play without shoulder rest the first time to look for any sound differences. I have to say that i feel like i get a louder sound if i use a shoulder rest, maybe because I have to press my shoulder again the bottom of the Violin what reduces the resonance of the bottom. Does that make any sens?
I do agree that using any kind of cushion or rest beneath the violin to increase grip affects the sound . Not just the projection of the violin but the tone , and most importantly , the "taste". As in for my violin , it looses the warmth and darkness , its like the rubber grips of the shoulder rest mutes and tremendously limits the vibration of the back plate . As a metaphor , a mute or any form of rubber on a bridge which softens the sound.
That's a very nice and interesting video. I hope violin beginners are not going to tell their teachers to quit using shoulder rest after watching your video. In my opinion violin starters should learn playing violin with shoulder rest, because the shoulder rest helps them developing the correct violin posture.
I've done it both ways. There are certain pieces that I only play without. I also play without a shoulder rest when I play my viola since I have a full size and it's hard to reach the finger board with the shoulder rest.
Thanks for the video, Esther! My violinteacher told me that I play much better without shoulder rest, but I didn't had the motivation to try it out properly. Now I am going to try it certainly! But I have a quick question; When you play without shoulder rest, do you play always with naked shoulder because when you have clothes under the violin it's difficult to still have the stability or do you have experience with special fabric to put under the violin to "fix" it?
I play with a shoulder rest as my neck is quite long however I started playing violin with just a small velvet sponge pad which was held round the chin rest however the shoulder rest Is a Peter Viogt wooden with sponge but actually only sits on the violin held by elastic band from the middle to the center corner of the middle of the violin thus the violin is only sitting not tightly gripped by one single grip on each corner and rests small piece of rubber glued to the shoulder rest at that points only thus it has little to do with restriction of volume is sound coming from the violin it is hard for me to keep proper control of the violin as means bending my neck at quite a angle to grip the violin chin rest so not suitable an action for me and that's why I use this one only I am fully aware that the violin vibrates best without one but everyone is built different I noticed you did not have a long neck so you can manage but had you a long neck my shoulder rest would be the best for you thank you for your video but these people had short necks making it difficult to hang them !!
The first 2 months of me learning the violin I did not have a shoulder rest cus the man selling it was closed because of restocking I got pretty used to it and i am comfortable with both so if I forget it I won't be having a problem I tried the shoulder rest thing and the no shoulder rest sounds so powerful
actually, i managed to pull off a switch in three days, i felt very comfortable with my SR but i already feel much better without it now. I can actually play with my head in a more natural position/ playing while being able to move it with a lot of freedom, being able pan the violin as much a i want also feels amazing(same about rotating the violin). It just feels much more healthy eventhough, with SR i already had amazing posture. The ony thing that i have to learn to do a complete transition from orchestra player posture to soloist poture is learning how to hold my violin up using only my thumb, like menuhin did but it always feels like my violin is slowly sliding off it.
Bonjour, j'ai regardé et écouté plusieurs de vos vidéos, où j'apprécie beaucoup votre musicalité, votre jeu à la fois plein de fraîcheur et d'exigence. Question, dans les vidéos récentes ,vous utilisez une mentonnière que je ne connais pas et qui semble bien adaptée au jeu sans coussin, pourriez-vous svp en parler. Merci à vous
I tried playing some Bach in the Baroque style. Luckily, the goal is avoid shifting for the most part, so I only went as high as fourth. Whenever I hear Baroque style playing, it sounds so clean and crisp, so simple and pure. I still prefer the traditional style, though.
I am a beginner violist. I have massive musical experience on multiple instruments at the hightest professional levels... To me, viola is the most challenging instument I have ever picked up. ALL shoulder rests feel like HELL to me. I want a thin cushion on my collar bone, because it is currently slightly bruised from the viola. I'm gonna figure it out.
Introduction of a shoulder rest will introduce damping into the system (which attenuates the vibration levels of the vibrating strings and wood). The strings resonate at their natural frequencies, but adding a absorbing material in the conduction path will reduce sound levels. Great observation. Without a shoulder rest, the strings and wood will vibrate with a higher amplitude because the system has less damping (a material that reduces/absorbs vibration levels/energy). Just like a shock absorber in a car, a piece of rubber or foam will change the characteristics of the vibrating system (e.g. the strings, wood, and the shoulder). I am a Mechanical Engineer, P.S. you are so beautiful.:)
Nice video, thanks Esther ^_^ I will to practice without shoulder rest, I needed the information. I speak english a little, sorry if you can`t understand me. Please can you make a video to explain how you study a piece, every phrase, bars, I don`t know really. Thanks and congratulations for your channel, I like it!
Yeah but in the time of Auer the Tchaikovsky concerto was deemed by Auer himself - too difficult to play. Now we have 12 year olds at the Menuhin competition who play it not only technically better than previous generations but also musically quite mature too. Repertoire has only gotten harder and the shoulder rest make it easier (shifting etc.). Also it's a COMPLETE fallacy that the sound production without a shoulder rest is better. When you don't play with a shoulder rest more of your shoulder touches the back of the violin which actually inhibits the resonance/vibrations of the instrument. A shoulder rest only touches the outside of the violin and leaves the back body of the violin untouched - allowing the instrument to resonate more. So playing with a shoulder rest gives you MORE sound not less. Anyway, who cares - it's all about comfort at the end of the day.
In thecnique to play without shoulder rest it requires to hold the violin weight with the left thumb, this says Menuhin, and definitely the sound is bigger
Not true. I recorded my violin with several mics to see the difference in loudness and frequencies distribution. There’s a very noticeable difference. Go to a studio and test it out for yourself (I used a Kun Bravo shoulder rest)
My friend's modern violins show no sign of loss of sound with shoulder rest, while my old rickety violin does indeed lose sound...depends on the violin I guess. But playing without shoulder rest does feel more free; easy to move the violin. Unfortunately in this video she doesn't balance her violin between the collar bone and the left hand...instead she; more or less squeezes the violin with her SHOULDER which is not great in regards of freedom. But I guess it works fine for her? MAN PLAYING VIOLIN IS COMPLICATED
no internet dinosours game Yeah, violin is pretty complicated. I still play with a shoulder rest despite the fact that it makes my violin quieter. My shifting, especially for fast double stops, suffers if I’m holding the violin with my hand.
@@violinsheetmusicblog I couldn't understand your answer, are You saying that there Is sound differences with ir without shoulder rests? Would You please tell us More about frecuencies differences please?
*I learned to play with should rest because it makes me feel more comfortable and safe, without it felt a lot of pain, however I think this is because i learned badly l, a friend thaught me, not a professor*
Hola, muy buena información, me gustaría saber si sostiene el violín con el dedo pulgar de la mano izquierda o con que parte de la mano? Alguien me puede ayudar a traducir lo esencial del video, mil gracias, saludos desde México
Is the brown mark on your collar bone from playing the violin for a long time? I also play with no shoulder rest and i notice that right under my neck there’s a little brown mark but yours is big not trying to be rude or anything
I hate the way everyone says you lose 1/3 of your sound... I don't think the feet can stop the vibrations UNLESS you are squeezing the rest onto the instrument and dampening the vibrations by holding the instrument too tightly... this is very likely what happens when people feel they lost sound. Of course the more gadgets / rests / devices you use the more you lose contact with the instrument Thank you for this discussion.
I am concious about huge sound change but playing without shoulder rest working only on summer when I wear tops and I have naked arm, I really like to find way to be able to practice without shoulder rest in the winter
As a bonus, we burn a little bit more calories when we play without shorter rest, because our left shoulder is going up and down as needed, therefore getting a little more exercise. Would you agree?
3. is irrevelent, if your shoulderest falls its not properly fitted, its the same as saying your chinrest falls off your violin or slides. 2. this is debatable as shoulder rests were made to make sure your in the correct position to hold the violin at all times with minimum effort. 1. Sound projection, I guess if you have those crazy tight heavy shoulder rests, pads, pillows or even cloths and towels over and under the violin then yes. But otherwise with a basic shoulder rest like Kun, or even a wolf shoulder rest with the two feet against the violin I found it doesn't affect the projection as much. Probably even less then strings when I compared say putting on a Evah Pirazzi set vs an Dominant set with GL E.
It's actually easier to shift, to play in tune e with the right bow angle. The only problem for me was sound accidents in audition, but I know it is a lack of body discipline, not hands limit.
Hey maam! hey guys.. playing violin without shoulder rest is a quite easy for me.. so what do you think am i going to buy a shoulder rest or not?? Cause i think i dont need it anymore.. Edit:and by the way guys can you please tell me what do i need to do when im holding my violin with my chin because i always hurt my jaw or chin when im using them to hold my violin without the support of my hand
If you play with no shoulder rest you must rely on your hand to help support it. You can still slide your hand well enough to change positions, without any big problem. You should never clench your jaw to the violin in order to hold it. You want to support it gently and in an relaxed manner, securing it soft with your jaw and collarbone. Look up Yehudi Menuhin’s video on holding violin. He shows a very great example of violin posture and form without shoulder rest.
Stephanie Gilmore thank you very much for your advice .. even though I learned how to play without a shoulder rest and I learned how to shift properly without even (locking/ or hold with a strong grip) my violin between my collarbone and chin
I’m looking forward in purchasing a berber viola chin rest to help with my comfort as I normally lay my chin on the right side of my viola. Hopefully it helps :d!
Even with a shoulder rest (which I no longer use) I have tremendous pain in my collarbone. Sometimes I have to stop playing it hurts so much. And, as I said, I get the same pain when I do use a shoulder rest. Does the collarbone eventually become tougher?
Yes and no, with time your skin will thicken a little bit but this is not ideal. You can put a cloth over your collarbone so it doesn't have direct contact with the violin.
Very interesting video! I've definitely heard a difference in sound between with and without a shoulder rest. I think I'll give it a try to see if I like it and what kind of difference it makes in my playing.
I'm playing piano since 8 years old (for 7 years).Everyone said that violin is very hard.But when I try it , really , is that.It's way easier than I thought.It's already 1 months now I'm practising adagio in g minor.But without shoulderrest is beaing painful 😔
Towards the end of my time playing the violin, I gave up the shoulder rest and loved the sound I was able to produce. It definitely takes some time to get used to it but I was happy that I was able to experience it for at least a short while. :) Lovely video and great to see modern violinists ditching the should rest as well!
I think you need to make sure that you have a really appropriate chin rest, too, before attempting this! As she says, a centre rest is good, because then, your chin contacts the violin directly above when your collarbone contacts it (or closer to it, anyway) so it should be more stable.
I'm now learning to play without a shoulder rest, and I feel like only now am I truly learning to hold and play a violin. All the tightness in my shoulder and neck that I developed from bad habits were masked and even made worse by using a shoulder rest! Now I am truly learning the delicate points of "holding" the violin, which now feels more like cradling it like a child and letting the movements be free and organic. Much much deeper insights come from playing without one!
You could use a cushion on your shirt like Hadelich, but almost every modern professional uses shoulder rest, so it isn't a crime
I'm a beginner violinist, I've been playing the guitar for 5 years, but I've recently been inspired to learn and study classical music, and I simply adore it! Music has brought me so much joy!
Yeahhh me too... I'm a guitarist at my church... i bought a violin 3 days ago.... i learn fast....
Kyle Kwartel. Personally, I feel the term "violinist" is reserved for someone who is a somewhat advanced player. Imagine someone who isn't that advanced (say only grade 7 or 8) going to a study with Ivan Galamian (Perlman's former teacher) and says, "Mr Galamian, I'm a violinist. I'm at the grade 8 level, and I want to study with you." I'd be embarrassed to do that. It is much more humble to say, "I play the violin", and save oneself a lot of embarrassment. In the case of the violin player, the virtuoso standard "Zigueneriesen " by Sarasate is a safe measure to go by. That is, if you can play this piece well, and then call yourself a violinist, nobody will laugh at you, not even a reputable teacher like Galamian. If not, "I play the violin" is a safer way to go. What's even safer, is to avoid saying "I am a violinist" altogether, even if one is really good. Then people will call you a violinist even when you yourself don't.
@@nelsoncheng4638 Who cares? If he calls himself a violinist but isn't very good, so what? There are many different levels of skill a one might have and still be considered a violinist. Setting an arbitrary standard is only important for gate keepers. One person's violinist may be another's beginner, it's a subjective concept.
TLDR: STFU, and let the beginner violinist call himself a beginner violinist, you punky twat.
(sorry that wasn't you're fault, I'm in a tough place right now... I still think you're a snobby git, but, I'm sorry for taking out my frustration on you.)
@@nelsoncheng4638 nah screw that bro. That's the lamest shit I've ever heard. Yeah so what if you suck at violin and call yourself a violinist. "You might get judged by classical elitists" do I look like I give a shit. I ain't a pussy. Gotta have that GRINDSET. Can't be doubting yourself and pooping your pants because you're not a virtuoso yet. You need to be OVERconfident. You need to be embarrassment-maxxing. You need to be putting yourself out there. You need to double down.
@@Henry-fv3bcAnd you need to learn to be humble in life. The Bible says,
“God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”
(1 Peter 5:5)
Humble yourself before Almighty God and receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. The Bible says,
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
(John 3:36)
Learning to play without a shoulder rest is definitely worth the effort. It's very liberating. Noticing that I was naturally centering my chin, I simply modified a standard "guarneri" style chin rest by removing the chin cup. The remaining center piece is all that's necessary to comfortably hold the violin, and the reduced weight allows the violin to resonate even more. This set up works well for me, but I would imagine that it wouldn't work for everyone.
how to play without a violin
jub8891 hahahahaha lol lmao 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Ling ling can do it
just sleep and dream it
practice 40 hrs per day
Maybe play with a cello
I've looked at a few videos and have tried without and it feels surprising comfortable with a small cloth underneath, Ill take the cloth off once my collarbone gets more used to it but I feel a lot closer to the violin
In our local church, most if not all of our violinists play with out any shoulder rest (and still could play some if Paganini's pieces)...
I played maybe 20 years with a shoulder rest. When the pandemic started, the orchestra was cancelled and I stopped playing. Three years later, I started playing for myself--neck pain kept me from using a shoulder rest. I'd play ten to fifteen minutes with a foam pad on my exquisitely sensitive collarbone. The violin would sometimes swing to my right or go with my thumb when I shifted down. Then I made a simple sling to keep the violin from moving as much. Now, four months later, the sensitivity has abated and I can play with my violin on my collarbone. My chin rest helps keep the violin from rocking around its long axis.
I learned to play without a shoulder rest and it’s actually quite easy. The only thing I have a lot of trouble with is doing Vibrato without a shoulder rest. I just can’t seem to do it
are you a guy? I ask because lots of woman violinists play with a naked shoulder which actually helps with the violin slipping, how do you not let it slip?
Menno Barten I’m a guy yes and you’re asking how I don’t let it slip? Basically just hold it up. People who use Shoulder Rests are so depended on it that when they switch to not using one they don’t hold it up because the should rest was already doing that for them.
Marquez Vigil Marquez Vigil I think I can answer your question then, for vibrato and shifting down you should be able to hold the violin with your neck and shoulder. But yeah, that way it starts slipping. Esther is luckily she can wear dresses n stuff since your skin actually is really helpful against the slipping.. you also never see her playing with a clothed shoulder
Im 14 and i have been playing for a year. Got my shoulder rest a few days ago. I dont like using it. Ive gotten soused to not using it, it feels awkward. Honestly it truly is personal preference. P.s. i play with shirts on and yes...it is a bit difficult but its all about practice. I dont think i'll ever play with a ahoulder rest unless i start doing SERIOUS vibrato exercises.
A bit of force with your thumb to hold onto the violin but don't grab it with your whole thumb, and a combination of the neck/jaw pressing down is what I usually do even with clothes on. It doesn't slip or move a lot for me.
You should look into the kreddle chin rest and cushion if you haven’t yet. I just bought one I love it. I’ve played with no shoulder rest for two years now, and finally decided to buy a adjustable chin rest to get the proper height and angle/grip that I need to maximize comfort. The Kreddle chin rest is the most versatile solution on the market for players that don’t use shoulder rests.
I'm an intermediate violinist (5th, 6th grade AMEB level) and having played for some years now was/am totally used to using a shoulder rest (Bonmusica) and, mistakenly as it turns out, always thought that playing without a shoulder rest would a/ hurt my collar bone b/ be difficult to keep steady and supported without the left hand constantly holding the violin in place. Neither of these are true as I found out by trying to play without a shoulder rest. I'm not using a centre chin rest but have one here should I feel the need for it. I'm really thinking of trying to play without using a shoulder rest and see if I enjoy it. Your tip about volume and tone production is absolutely true and a big incentive to becoming sans shoulder rest for keeps. Thanks for a great video !!
I am a fiddle player who plays without a shoulder rest. I encourage new students to do the same and try to teach them how to do this successfully. You have named every reason I too play this way. I do not want to ever wish to feel separated from my violin. Your "collar bone" will conduct sound vibration well, where a shoulder rest will dampen sound vibration, albeit subtly, but your ear, as well as mine, obviously is sensitive enough to discern the difference. Also, I have never once suffered neck pain since disposing of my shoulder rest. Finally, the extraordinary violinist, Joshua Bell, who is very wonderfully expressive and uses a shoulder rest, appears almost robotic while playing. this does not inhibit his virtuosity one bit. However, I can't help but wonder how much freer he might move and express himself without the shoulder rest. You are a wonderful violinist whom I follow closely. You are very inspirational and dare I say, a virtuoso for a new generation. Best wishes for your future.
I played without shoulder rest these days because there is no all-in-one shoulder rest. I have created a small wash sponge and fill out the incremental gap between my chin and my shoulder; I hide the sponge under my cloth and it is not obvious to be noticed :)
As you said, it worked perfectly to change some positions that you can play. The traditional shoulder rest is ugly sometimes and yet does not serve the purpose because everyone has a different height of neck and length of shoulder.
It sometimes also depends on the weight of violin. Some antique violins can be very light and playing without shoulder rest is actually quite fun.
I love this video as I do not use a shoulder rest. I used to feel awkward but this made me feel very content. I love you esther abrami. Keep inspiring ❤
You are absolutely amazing - and lovely, too. You have such a beautiful and distinct sound. I’ve always struggled with shoulder rests. You have encouraged me to play without and for good reason. Thank you🎻👏👏👏
I play the viola with a shoulder rest. I used to play without shoulder rest when I started, but then I needed one when I started to shift, especially shifting down (and it was even more comfortable for me cuz viola is pretty heavy). Sometimes I try to play without shoulder rest for fun. It's true that you get a way better sound, but it's much harder to me for shifting down and vibrato. So for the moment I kepp it, but maybe I'm definitely gonna take it off one day
yes. i start without shouldrest, but now i use it. because with shouldrest make me feel relax
I play viola too
I play without a shoulder rest and it has helped a lot for my back. The only thing is that it's a little more tiring because the shoulder rest helps to keep the violin a little upwards. And grips on clothes. When we don't have one it's all about posture. And sometimes I feel like I'm limited because of the fact that I don't have a shoulder rest. I just bought a 'playonair' one which is that kind of 'blow up' shoulder rest. Maybe that's the solution..
For me, it’s impossible to shift and vibrato without a shoulder rest. Ouch.
It is probably because you have nartow sloping clavicles or shoulders and a long neck
I am 11 so I do not have that problem with neck length but sometimes I have bad pain in my clavicles but I put my shirt down to help reduce it
Have you practiced since then? If so I bet you figured it out :)
What about the bruise you get on your collar bone? I thought maybe it was just me, but it looks like you have one too. I don’t mind how it looks, but it is sensitive. Also, like others asked, are you able to play without anything if you’re wearing a soft sweater (jumper), or do you add something for grip?
It called the violin hickey
No it’s the skin being irritated
@@isaachowell952 90% of violinist have it
I'm so glad I found this video. My whole life playing violin I felt out of place because i'm always the only one in all my orchestras that doesn't use a shoulder rest. due to financial reasons I didn't have one starting out, and now I play just fine without it and it feels awkward when I try to use one. I can shift and vibrato just fine. It just depends on how you learn. Thanks for making this video!
@Ericka : Since I am just starting, I would ask 2 important things. If you learn vibrato and shift without the shoulder rest, can you still do them with a shoulder rest? Because apparently if you learn shift and vibrato with a shoulder rest.. then you cannot do them without the shoulder rest.
2nd question: do you think beginning without a shoulder rest brings more chances of developing some kind of injuries (from bad posture, lift shoulder too much, lowering chin too much, sore shoulder/neck, etc). Many thanks!
@@RS-gm1qb hi! i just saw this! those are all definitely things to consider. I can still vibrato and shift with a shoulder rest, but it doesn't feel natural to me so I prefer without. I do think that there is a reason why shoulder rests are so popular and used by most violinists/violists. They avoid the redness i get on my collarbone from pressing the violin against it. As for bad posture, I think a shoulder rest helps, but i think that mostly comes from the way you train yourself to sit upright. But a shoulder rest definitely helps for training yourself to hold the violin up higher! hope this helps!
I've been playing without the shoulder rest for 2 years!!! Bonjour Esther♥ I am from the Philippines and my string orchestra(Manila Symphony Junior Orchestra) won 1st place at this year's Summa Cum Laude Music Festival♥♥♥ you are my idol💯🎻
I've had to give up violin entirely, due to a ruptured disc in my neck. Now, by playing without a shoulder rest and moving freely while I play, I'm able to play it a little. The freedom of movement makes the player more interesting to watch, too.
Try Indian style. Sit in a chair and support the scroll on a stand or on your right foot (if your hip can handle it). Bowing is trickier due to gravity, but the violin doesn't need to be supported at all
Without shoulder rest produces better sound from the violin. Looks graceful . I practice without shoulder rest. Esther you are inspiration to many like loving classical violin . we like your videos.
I really appreciate the balanced attitude to this controvertial topic
I Agree That The Sound Completely Changes. This Helps! Thank You!
Centered chin rest - that's an awesome tip! I never thought about that! I've tried not using a shoulder rest some years ago and didn't feel comfortable. But I didn't realize that it may be my chin rest. I'll try that... as soon as I get a new chin rest ;)
Thank you Esther, after watching your video I tried in my practise without the shoulder rest. I found it quite comfortable and it certainly made a difference with the volume even with a mute which I usually use thinking of the neighbours. I will carry on with a slow change over as you suggest and see how it goes I was very impressed.
I have been playing guitar for 35 years.
I started playing violin 15 years ago.
I use a shoulder rest.
When I practice a lot, I have a pinched nerve in my neck.
I think if I didn’t use a shoulder rest it would be way more painful.
I am not sure if it is such a good idea to play without one.
I think it all depends on how long your neck is!
I just wanted to give you a heads up about the shoulder rest. When you play with it, usually you are holding the violin up with the head leaving the hand without much weight on it. Very painful for the neck as you are squeezing down a lot of the time against the lever that the rest creates. When you play without a shoulder rest you don’t do this as your left hand takes all of the weight and your head is only flopped onto the chin rest to stop the violin sliding past towards the chest. You have to learn to play a little differently with your left hand but it is without a doubt better for your neck. I am a Sax and guitarist so my neck told me this on day one 😄
Give it another try and see!
I dont get it. Why should it hurt so much. I mean even if it hurts with the shoulder rest you are doing something WRONG. Pain is alwys the indicator for WRONG. Also a pinched nerve is a indicator for WRONG. Its just that people started to care less and less after the heifetz generation about proper technique. I mean basically there are so few, i mean really so few violinist, that know how to hold the violin properly, that know every milimeter of their finger and what that milimeter does. It is really sad.
thankyou. i have tried in the past to play without one but i get frustrated so easily and revert back to the shoulder rest. im going to take your hints and try to be more patient because i do believe it will help me in the long run.
i have been playing without a shoulder . i agree with you esther . my violin does vibrate more and i truly appreciate you so much. i am double jointed too my left hand
I have cheap violin ( I'm adult beginner, so right now I don't need to have expensive violin… right now : p) and when I played with sholder and chin my violin sound horrible, metallic and scratchy. Right now I play without sholder and chin and they really sound much better. I can hear I fell on my shoulder those vibration and it's amazing feeling :)
Great to find this video. I have played without a shoulder rest for decades, and use a center chin rest as well. I was urged a few years ago to play with the shoulder rest again because I had a sore shoulder for a time, but just couldn't get back into it. I didn't know the violin was louder, but the sound is always more naturally resonant, less constrained. At times shifting and keeping the violin in proper position is problematic, still working on that.
Nice video Miss Esther. 👍 I am glad you realized that your shoulder rest was not needed . Also, you don’t have to worry about the shoulder rest slipping off when you are playing. 👌
Idk about you, but i sure have to worry about my entire violin slipping off when i'm playing lol
Both sides have merit. However, I would say that for a beginner - a shoulder rest is vital as it makes it easier to hold violin and provides more stability in learning how to play initially. Once someone has progressed to playing for a few years, then yes, this may be an option.
❤ Love this video.
You don't really need shoulder rests. Only the lazy players need.
I want to play without shoulder rest
Thanks for the advices🎻🎶❤️
I was trained to hold violin without shoulder rest when I was a kid, and I stopped playing for almost 12 years. Now I start again, and try shoulder rest, I feel very uncomfortable with it attached, and it's true it always falling off hahah
Thanks for your insights Esther.
What's your argument to those who insist on not using a shoulder rest? They claim that way their violin resonates freer with bigger sound. In theory that may be true, but I feel comfort is priority. Agree?
If I follow my ideal philosophy of simplicity and simplify by ditching the shoulder, then I'll be fussing with experimenting with the right chinrest or some pad......Which actually defeats the purpose of simplicity.
Hello! Nice video! I'm preparing a documentary on violin technique which will cover a lot of ideas about playing without SR. I'm going to be interviewing lots of pedagogues , soloists , orchestra players around the world to do this project, and I've already interviewed a number of them. I would like to address the first point that you made about holding the violin up. While it's true that some players say you have to do this, I feel that this advice is similar to those in the past who said not to put a cushion under the violin. The idea of playing without SR means you are free, and might constantly move around. You move the violin up when it's necessary to (for example for certain shifts or vibrato), but it's not a hard rule. The proof is just to watch videos of violinists such as Ida Haendel to give just one example. Most of the time her violin is rather low. The most difficult aspect of playing without SR is that it will be a very different experience for every violinist depending on finger length, hand size, neck length, head shape, collarbone, shape, and a combination of all these. Almost impossible to categorize. So while it's possible to give certain hints, every violinist will have to figure out for themselves what works for them in a comfortable way. In preparing for my documentary, I've read just about every article on this topic, and watched every single video there is on it. A lot of violinists are saying "do this or that", and while "this or that" works for those particular violinists, it won't work for others. So it becomes dangerous to teach how to play without SR if you are not aware of all the different variations in philosophies. Watch Anne Sophie Mutter, Itzhak Perlman, Jascha Heifetz to watch three completely different approaches to playing without SR.
I have a Markov rest which allows the violin to resonate beautifully, however, I haven't been playing for very long and need extra help at the moment. I will go back to the Markov eventually.
I noticed a few weeks ago how the shoulder rest did affect the sound. I could hear it and feel the vibrations more as well
Hi Esther - I need to use a shoulder rest for comfort. My shoulder rest, however, is a 95-cent multi-use scrub sponge attached to my violin with three rubber bands. 😊 🎻🎶
I love it
you have a bruise where you rest the violin. is that normal? looks painful
. I never could get used to the shoulder rest, so from the time I started playing, I've never used it. I agree with you, in that there seems to be more freedom to move.
Its amazing to see as to how do you play without a sholder rest. But do you support violin with left thumb and contact of index finger or just thumb alone?
Thumb and index finger is what it looks like to me. I just use my thumb, but I may experiment with thumb plus index finger to get extra stability.
Thanks for an excellent video. Very helpful.
Me, personally I don't like shoulder rests, either. But playing without I don't like as well. So I' ve chosen a compromise and bought the Performa wood shoulder rest. It gives you the feeling of playing without a shoulder rest, while in reality you play the violin with it.
Even in the old days when Paganini played most Violinists had a little pillow on the shoulder under their jacket. I also like the acousta grip shoulder pillow it's much more comfortable then usual shoulder rests and i didn't recognize any sound loss. Also I think you would never play the Violin as good as you would if you use a shoulder rest because you're much more relaxed and you don't raise your left shoulder so your right hand can be completely free which again makes soloing easier. Anyhow it's interesting to see people playing that old fashion way.
Greetings from Germany.
I just tried to play without shoulder rest the first time to look for any sound differences. I have to say that i feel like i get a louder sound if i use a shoulder rest, maybe because I have to press my shoulder again the bottom of the Violin what reduces the resonance of the bottom. Does that make any sens?
I do agree that using any kind of cushion or rest beneath the violin to increase grip affects the sound . Not just the projection of the violin but the tone , and most importantly , the "taste". As in for my violin , it looses the warmth and darkness , its like the rubber grips of the shoulder rest mutes and tremendously limits the vibration of the back plate . As a metaphor , a mute or any form of rubber on a bridge which softens the sound.
That's a very nice and interesting video. I hope violin beginners are not going to tell their teachers to quit using shoulder rest after watching your video. In my opinion violin starters should learn playing violin with shoulder rest, because the shoulder rest helps them developing the correct violin posture.
HAHAHAHA "I hope violin beginners are not going to tell the teachers to quit using shoulder rest after watching your video"
lol I learnt violin without shoulder rest but I still prefer piano
I told him and he told me if you play without a violin it would be better for me :D
I've done it both ways. There are certain pieces that I only play without. I also play without a shoulder rest when I play my viola since I have a full size and it's hard to reach the finger board with the shoulder rest.
Thanks you very much, it help me playing better without shoulder rest. It very hard to find someone who play without it just like you said ;
Question:
Does your index finger knuckle joint touch the side of the neck when you play without shoulder rest?
If so how much?
Thanks for the video, Esther! My violinteacher told me that I play much better without shoulder rest, but I didn't had the motivation to try it out properly. Now I am going to try it certainly!
But I have a quick question; When you play without shoulder rest, do you play always with naked shoulder because when you have clothes under the violin it's difficult to still have the stability or do you have experience with special fabric to put under the violin to "fix" it?
Quissy Marie959 I usually play with a naked shoulder, because I struggle with keeping it in place too.
@@hel.kw07 Me too I try it this way but I's a bit struggling....
I play with a shoulder rest as my neck is quite long however I started playing violin with just a small velvet sponge pad which was held round the chin rest however the shoulder rest Is a Peter Viogt wooden with sponge but actually only sits on the violin held by elastic band from the middle to the center corner of the middle of the violin thus the violin is only sitting not tightly gripped by one single grip on each corner and rests small piece of rubber glued to the shoulder rest at that points only thus it has little to do with restriction of volume is sound coming from the violin it is hard for me to keep proper control of the violin as means bending my neck at quite a angle to grip the violin chin rest so not suitable an action for me and that's why I use this one only I am fully aware that the violin vibrates best without one but everyone is built different I noticed you did not have a long neck so you can manage but had you a long neck my shoulder rest would be the best for you thank you for your video but these people had short necks making it difficult to hang them !!
The first 2 months of me learning the violin I did not have a shoulder rest cus the man selling it was closed because of restocking
I got pretty used to it and i am comfortable with both so if I forget it I won't be having a problem
I tried the shoulder rest thing and the no shoulder rest sounds so powerful
It leaves a brown mark on the wishbone but still nice
war marks only haha
it leaves a mark anyways . Not on the same spot but on the neck or the side of your chin. So with or without it is going to leave a mark
actually, i managed to pull off a switch in three days, i felt very comfortable with my SR but i already feel much better without it now. I can actually play with my head in a more natural position/ playing while being able to move it with a lot of freedom, being able pan the violin as much a i want also feels amazing(same about rotating the violin). It just feels much more healthy eventhough, with SR i already had amazing posture. The ony thing that i have to learn to do a complete transition from orchestra player posture to soloist poture is learning how to hold my violin up using only my thumb, like menuhin did but it always feels like my violin is slowly sliding off it.
I love my tone when playing without a shoulder rest, but down shifting is very difficult. Any suggestions? Thank you. 🎻
Bonjour, j'ai regardé et écouté plusieurs de vos vidéos, où j'apprécie beaucoup votre musicalité, votre jeu à la fois plein de fraîcheur et d'exigence. Question, dans les vidéos récentes ,vous utilisez une mentonnière que je ne connais pas et qui semble bien adaptée au jeu sans coussin, pourriez-vous svp en parler. Merci à vous
Thank you so much! I'm gonna start practicing this right away!
I tried playing some Bach in the Baroque style. Luckily, the goal is avoid shifting for the most part, so I only went as high as fourth. Whenever I hear Baroque style playing, it sounds so clean and crisp, so simple and pure.
I still prefer the traditional style, though.
I am a beginner violist. I have massive musical experience on multiple instruments at the hightest professional levels...
To me, viola is the most challenging instument I have ever picked up.
ALL shoulder rests feel like HELL to me.
I want a thin cushion on my collar bone, because it is currently slightly bruised from the viola. I'm gonna figure it out.
Thank you for the vid…please do another and turn clockwise to the camera so that we can see how the violin looks from the your left side 😊
Introduction of a shoulder rest will introduce damping into the system (which attenuates the vibration levels of the vibrating strings and wood). The strings resonate at their natural frequencies, but adding a absorbing material in the conduction path will reduce sound levels. Great observation. Without a shoulder rest, the strings and wood will vibrate with a higher amplitude because the system has less damping (a material that reduces/absorbs vibration levels/energy). Just like a shock absorber in a car, a piece of rubber or foam will change the characteristics of the vibrating system (e.g. the strings, wood, and the shoulder). I am a Mechanical Engineer, P.S. you are so beautiful.:)
I have no experience to play a violin but ill try to follow it.
Nice video, thanks Esther ^_^
I will to practice without shoulder rest, I needed the information.
I speak english a little, sorry if you can`t understand me.
Please can you make a video to explain how you study a piece, every phrase, bars, I don`t know really.
Thanks and congratulations for your channel, I like it!
Yeah but in the time of Auer the Tchaikovsky concerto was deemed by Auer himself - too difficult to play. Now we have 12 year olds at the Menuhin competition who play it not only technically better than previous generations but also musically quite mature too. Repertoire has only gotten harder and the shoulder rest make it easier (shifting etc.). Also it's a COMPLETE fallacy that the sound production without a shoulder rest is better. When you don't play with a shoulder rest more of your shoulder touches the back of the violin which actually inhibits the resonance/vibrations of the instrument. A shoulder rest only touches the outside of the violin and leaves the back body of the violin untouched - allowing the instrument to resonate more. So playing with a shoulder rest gives you MORE sound not less. Anyway, who cares - it's all about comfort at the end of the day.
In thecnique to play without shoulder rest it requires to hold the violin weight with the left thumb, this says Menuhin, and definitely the sound is bigger
Not true. I recorded my violin with several mics to see the difference in loudness and frequencies distribution. There’s a very noticeable difference. Go to a studio and test it out for yourself (I used a Kun Bravo shoulder rest)
My friend's modern violins show no sign of loss of sound with shoulder rest, while my old rickety violin does indeed lose sound...depends on the violin I guess. But playing without shoulder rest does feel more free; easy to move the violin. Unfortunately in this video she doesn't balance her violin between the collar bone and the left hand...instead she; more or less squeezes the violin with her SHOULDER which is not great in regards of freedom. But I guess it works fine for her? MAN PLAYING VIOLIN IS COMPLICATED
no internet dinosours game Yeah, violin is pretty complicated. I still play with a shoulder rest despite the fact that it makes my violin quieter. My shifting, especially for fast double stops, suffers if I’m holding the violin with my hand.
@@violinsheetmusicblog I couldn't understand your answer, are You saying that there Is sound differences with ir without shoulder rests? Would You please tell us More about frecuencies differences please?
Thanks for your advice Mrs. Abrami, great sound and great beauty
You convinced me! I'm gonna try your advice of to slowly practice without a shoulder test (10 minutes, 10+10...) :D
Would appreciate comments about cloths used over the violin. Thanks!
Also do you think negatively about people who do use a shoulder rest
*I learned to play with should rest because it makes me feel more comfortable and safe, without it felt a lot of pain, however I think this is because i learned badly l, a friend thaught me, not a professor*
Hola, muy buena información, me gustaría saber si sostiene el violín con el dedo pulgar de la mano izquierda o con que parte de la mano? Alguien me puede ayudar a traducir lo esencial del video, mil gracias, saludos desde México
Does the bruising on your left collarbone hurt?
I love watching your videos they are very interesting and helpful to me thank Esther you
Is the brown mark on your collar bone from playing the violin for a long time? I also play with no shoulder rest and i notice that right under my neck there’s a little brown mark but yours is big not trying to be rude or anything
I hate the way everyone says you lose 1/3 of your sound... I don't think the feet can stop the vibrations UNLESS you are squeezing the rest onto the instrument and dampening the vibrations by holding the instrument too tightly... this is very likely what happens when people feel they lost sound. Of course the more gadgets / rests / devices you use the more you lose contact with the instrument Thank you for this discussion.
I came here because I noticed the sound quality improved when taking the shoulder rest off.
I am concious about huge sound change but playing without shoulder rest working only on summer when I wear tops and I have naked arm, I really like to find way to be able to practice without shoulder rest in the winter
Im and intermediate so still using shoulder rests gonna be a long one before I get advanced 😉
Utiliser l'épaule pour les demanchés m'a beaucoup aidé, mais pour le vibrato sans épauliere comment s'y prendre ?
What kind of chinrest you recommend or use instead of the guarnieri?
Sometime i feel like using shoulder rest. But most of the time i play without. I use the Kreddle chinrest.
As a bonus, we burn a little bit more calories when we play without shorter rest, because our left shoulder is going up and down as needed, therefore getting a little more exercise. Would you agree?
3. is irrevelent, if your shoulderest falls its not properly fitted, its the same as saying your chinrest falls off your violin or slides. 2. this is debatable as shoulder rests were made to make sure your in the correct position to hold the violin at all times with minimum effort. 1. Sound projection, I guess if you have those crazy tight heavy shoulder rests, pads, pillows or even cloths and towels over and under the violin then yes. But otherwise with a basic shoulder rest like Kun, or even a wolf shoulder rest with the two feet against the violin I found it doesn't affect the projection as much. Probably even less then strings when I compared say putting on a Evah Pirazzi set vs an Dominant set with GL E.
Awesome video!!!! Thank you!! I subscribed to your channel.
It's actually easier to shift, to play in tune e with the right bow angle. The only problem for me was sound accidents in audition, but I know it is a lack of body discipline, not hands limit.
Hey maam! hey guys.. playing violin without shoulder rest is a quite easy for me.. so what do you think am i going to buy a shoulder rest or not?? Cause i think i dont need it anymore..
Edit:and by the way guys can you please tell me what do i need to do when im holding my violin with my chin because i always hurt my jaw or chin when im using them to hold my violin without the support of my hand
If you play with no shoulder rest you must rely on your hand to help support it. You can still slide your hand well enough to change positions, without any big problem. You should never clench your jaw to the violin in order to hold it. You want to support it gently and in an relaxed manner, securing it soft with your jaw and collarbone. Look up Yehudi Menuhin’s video on holding violin. He shows a very great example of violin posture and form without shoulder rest.
Stephanie Gilmore thank you very much for your advice .. even though I learned how to play without a shoulder rest and I learned how to shift properly without even (locking/ or hold with a strong grip) my violin between my collarbone and chin
It's going to take some great practice. But it's definitely a good tip.
What do you think pirastro shoulder rest? Deluxe rset... point...
@Esther ... Have you any idea about treatment of Fiddler's neck, please?!
I’m looking forward in purchasing a berber viola chin rest to help with my comfort as I normally lay my chin on the right side of my viola. Hopefully it helps :d!
Even with a shoulder rest (which I no longer use) I have tremendous pain in my collarbone. Sometimes I have to stop playing it hurts so much. And, as I said, I get the same pain when I do use a shoulder rest. Does the collarbone eventually become tougher?
Yes and no, with time your skin will thicken a little bit but this is not ideal. You can put a cloth over your collarbone so it doesn't have direct contact with the violin.
Very interesting video! I've definitely heard a difference in sound between with and without a shoulder rest. I think I'll give it a try to see if I like it and what kind of difference it makes in my playing.
I am new to playing but it doesn’t bother me me to play without a shoulder rest
I'm playing piano since 8 years old (for 7 years).Everyone said that violin is very hard.But when I try it , really , is that.It's way easier than I thought.It's already 1 months now I'm practising adagio in g minor.But without shoulderrest is beaing painful 😔
Which brand of centred chin-rest are you using?
Is it easier to Play the viola without shoulderrest? Because the viola ist Higher...
Towards the end of my time playing the violin, I gave up the shoulder rest and loved the sound I was able to produce. It definitely takes some time to get used to it but I was happy that I was able to experience it for at least a short while. :) Lovely video and great to see modern violinists ditching the should rest as well!
very interesting video esther as usual. many thx for it :)
I think you need to make sure that you have a really appropriate chin rest, too, before attempting this! As she says, a centre rest is good, because then, your chin contacts the violin directly above when your collarbone contacts it (or closer to it, anyway) so it should be more stable.