I have the f250 tremor with Godzilla engine. Yes, it's thirsty. That aside, it does everything really well. Including towing my 12k fifth wheel through the Sierras and Rockies. The additional weight of the diesels on the front in off road situations is a negative as is the effect of all the slow speed idling on the emissions equipment. So between that, the cost of diesel vs gas and the lack of expensive and complicated emissions gear, I went gas. I have not regretted it (also have a Ram diesel in the driveway, so I know the difference). I installed a 58 gallon gas tank, so range is not an issue either. I finished a 6k mile trip this summer with the fifth wheel and averaged 9 mpg for the trip (CA to KY and back). My diesel with same trailer and route averages 10 mpg. So it's a good trade.
This. I have a landscape company and it has never made sense to own a diesel truck. They are more expensive in every way. Unless you're loaded heavy every day I guess but still some of those old box vans and moving trucks etc were gas engine and lasted for 100s of ks and did it so with less expense.
@@rsbreeze not always....depends where you have your cash and what loan is costing......alot do pay cash though At the peak, better off keeping your money making bigger dividends than loan is costing
Recently made this decision. For 69k I went for the 2023 F250 XLT Tremor with the 7.3. For that price I got 360 cameras, premium audio, panoramic moonroof, upfitter switches and more. Power wagon doesn’t actually compete in the HD space with regards to payload, and to get the features I have on a Rebel HD the least expensive I could find was 85k. One thing not mentioned is that Ford uses the same leaf pack and axles on the 250 Tremor as they do the 350 Tremor. The only difference is the door jamb sticker. So essentially a 250 Tremor’s payload # is just de-rated and the truck can realistically (not legally) handle more. Love my truck and although I don’t consider 68k to be cheap, I feel like in comparison to the other options it’s actually a reasonable value.
I've always wondered what the godzilla 7.3 engine would sound like with some proper pipes underneath. Honestly, If you can get anything for under 70K that's heavy duty and that many options, id say your right on par. Considering a king ranch F-150 will run you in the high 60s (in my area), id say you made a good choice, as long as it does everything you require. Tremors are sharp looking trucks too.
@@LloydSwartz-i4m Yea, I’m sure its capable of it, but Ram’s crazy low payload rating makes it impossible to tow much legally. The Powerwagon I test drove had less than 1300 lbs of payload, my Tremor is rated for 3261 even though its a 250 (a 350 would add around 500lbs more).
One important feature ZR2 has that the Tremor or the Rebel do not have? Factory snow plow prep. Ford and Ram do NOT allow their factory plow prep to be ordered with the Tremor (Ford) or Rebel (Ram). GM still allows VYU plow prep to be ordered on the ZR2.
That doesn't make any sense. Off-road use requires a certain spring rate, so does carrying a snow plow. They're different spring rates. You're never going to get the right spring for both jobs without going with an air setup in the front.
@@snowmanwithahat The front torsion bars on the ZR2 are the same p/ns as the bars on a regular 4x4 or Z71 with plow prep. That's how. They didn't change the bars they use. 2024s the front axle gross with VYU plow prep is 6000lbs, no matter the engine, no matter a regular 4x4 or the ZR2. The ZR2 has the extra height and the trick shocks, but otherwise its still just as capable as the regular HDs.
I just got my 2022 pw fully loaded and dealership marked it down from 80k to 74k. For me and my budget this truck was exactly what i wanted. More space, more storage, and very offroad capable with front and rear lockers and a front disconnecting sway bar and winch from the factory. Yes the payload is horrendous and the mpg is a killer, but if you know about powerwagons then you werent planning on saving gas or towing now were you? 😅😅😅 still cool to see other companies coming into this market tho. Nice work andre!👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
@@bod7425 just checked the door sticker and my 22 pw with lv 3, tow package, and offroad package says 1314 payload. All ram trucks except for the leaf spring 3500s and up have much lower payload than other trucks cause they switched to springs and shocks on all four corners instead. But there are videos that have a bed loaded to 2500 lbs and the bump stops arent even touching the axles. Legally you cant go over the sticker but the pw is still a 2500 platform just with offroad tuned shocks and springs.
@@bod7425 if you still want payload and front and rear lockers i would look into gmc sierra hd at4x. I think thats gonna have what you want. Good luck!
@@muskaman2k My current 2021 ram 1500 rebel has 1400ish. But I still want the power wagon for the front locker and sway bar disconnect. Does the sway bar disconnect make offroad driving significantly more comfortable? Thank you
These prices are insane. So glad I got my Ram 2500 in early 21. Another thing one can do if you want a “baby power wagon” is get a 2500 with the 6.4 and add the level 1 Laramie package and off-road package. Add a full thuren suspension and boom, baby power wagon minus the lockers and sway bar disconnect.
Man I just have to say you guys are so fair with your reviews. Andre especially is non-opiniated and it makes for a great watch. Keep it up guys! Best car review/overview channel out there! P.S. can you please do some more odd car overviews?
I don't have a problem with independent front suspension. The military version of the Hummer (HMMWV) has an independent suspension all the way around and was excellent off road. We could drive them places where you couldn't even walk.
And the Marines have been using nothing but fully independent suspension tactical vehicles including 7 tons for decades now instead of solid axles for both front and rear.
@@2-1inffwa97an ex military guy stated that the h-1 is just good in desert conditions, on the uneven ground the limited suspension travel is the weak point, I have heard an amusing story of a h-1 try and follow lifted (tippy)Jeeps and Toyotas and roll over due to the lack of suspension travel..
We want the all hand on deck comparison. Mud, rocks, climbs, desert, engine stress, winch recovery, river crossings, lockers... All this with and without payload. A full and true 4x4 comparison
I have always been a Ford guy and am a current Raptor owner but I really like this Chevy HD ZR2. If I were considering a 2500 this would be at the top of my list along with the Tremor F250.
I would definitely do the zr2 HD. I enjoy the independent suspension plus it has some really cool shock tech compared to ram and ford. If I towed over 10k regularly I would do diesel but I would probably go for the gas. I really enjoy the Silverado HD facelift.
Andre I prefer the 7.3 in a Lariat Tremor. Same thing as my 2020 with 90k. Love the truck and no issues and we tow the same skid steer-16k and 35' boat-17k.
The Power wagon is simply not worth it .. payload is 1500 pounds or less. Get a half ton. I've owned several Rams, and the 6'4 standard bed vs 6'8-10 beds of the competitors is a huge downside
Idk I had a power wagon a Colorado zr2 a ram 2500 diesel and a van. My thoughts if you are looking for a "overland" don't waste you time on trucks just get a van they are such a nicer experience than anything you can do with a pickup. But if you are going off road I'd say stick with the Colorado because you can get down more trails especially in Washington where we have narrow trails. You should see my van I have a queen bed and bench seat in my van and can still load bikes and possibly a quad. Diy van builds all the way 🍻
My build out currently I still have 1700 lbs of payload left and that's including me and my kids weight so we still got 1700 lbs no subtracting for passengers
@@is6566i have a ram promaster 159" 2500 I've done 13000 miles on it so far had it for about 2 years now it's front wheel drive I specifically picked a promaster because I believe it's the best value and the best cargo van in general I have alot of reasons I've listed in various promaster forums on Facebook. I've been in snow and felt safe I've been down dirt trails which is 90% of what people do most people aren't doing rock crawling in their home away from home so 4x4 is unnecessary plus a Mercedes with 4x4 is super tall my promaster with my max air fans and solar can still fit in most drive thrus. I wish I got better mpg get like 14.5 which is how much a pickup gets with no bed to sleep a no fridge no batteries no interior trim so the van already wins over a truck on the fuel.
Maybe if you’re camping in established campgrounds or easy dirt roads, yes vans all the way. But if you’re going to something more technical then vans are pretty much useless. I’ve seen more 4x4 Sprinters broke down on trails more than Jeeps (I pulled a Sprinter out with my 4Runner not too long ago 😅). Capability between a proper off-road truck and a camper van is night and day difference.
@@whocaresjustdoit for sure that's why I clarified but most people just drive down logging roads (dirt roads) or drive on regular roads that are covered in snow. I've had all of those different rigs I've tried all of these different types of camping: basic tent camping using a car, basic tent camping using a pickup, truck cap camping, RV camping, bus camping, SUV camping, van camping, pickup truck tent camping. The only option I had left for my pickups were to do a 4wheel camper which at that point why not just do a van since you are going to be too tall for most jeep trails anyway with these camper style pickups and would be limited to places vans go anywhere but then when you get to camp in a pick up you have to setup camp for these truck bed camper you have to leave the cab to enter into the living area in a van you park you are done no setting up a tent in the snow or rain. Say a natural disaster rolled through and I had to bug out I have everything I need to live in a van comfortably for years vrs a truck camper you want to do that everyday for a few years if something crazy happened? I know I wouldn't I could make due with a van but a truck camper would get annoying real quick. To the breaking down issue I feel that's a few factors people doing trails their vehicle isn't capable of so lack of driver ability and knowledge then they overload their vans or have them fully loaded all the time and that comes down to how they built the van if it's heavy it's going to break. My van is one of the lightest builds I've seen most people's builds are 8000 I'm at 7200lbs my gvwr is 8900 so I've got alot of wiggle room vs the avg van build and that was by design really. So yes I agree but also it's complicated
All these trucks are very capable. You have to buy the truck that best fits your needs. I am not much of an off-roader, but I bought a Power Wagon for it’s work capability. I run a ranch in Montana and I need to be able to haul hay and equipment up and down muddy and snowy roads, and across fields and pastures with mud and snow. The only vehicle I have found that can do this, besides my tractor, is the Power Wagon. At a 10,000 lb towing capacity, I may have to make two trips, but I always make it. The front lockers, the solid front axle. along with the disconnecting sway bar, makes this truck almost unstoppable for what I use it for.
Andre, if you’re going to talk off-road trucks, please make turning radius part of the discussion. Yes, I understand that HD pickups will take more space to turn around; my F-150 takes three full-size lanes to make a U-turn. I appreciate that HD trucks have beam axles and heavier steering components. However, with the increased popularity of off-road vehicles, this can be a way for manufacturers to be innovative and differentiate themselves from competitors. None of the big three is putting effort into this. However, after the first truck is built with a reduced turning radius, the others will respond. Also, a smaller turning radius could help manage a trailer and maneuver at a job site. The tailgate war didn’t start until the first shot was fired. Then, all Hell broke loose.
@@steevehudon8941 Excellent. So Ford already has paid the engineering cost. Bring it on Ford for the 250 Tremor. I would replace my F-150 with that for my farm truck.
@@RickActual Engineering consists of a wider front track for more steering angle. Ez on a dually F-450...would be odd on a SRW to have a wider front track than rear.
I did my preferred Tremor build on an XLT trim with Baja interior, as I LOVE cloth trim, and it came to $71,500. My gas "Andre" King Ranch version was $90,000 for the gasser, with the HO diesel coming in at a heady $102,000 !!
Great overall view, tough choice if there isn’t a brand loyalty playing in. Only thing I’m a little concerned about is the price tag every time the shocks needs replacing.
For pure off road use the Power Wagon with its greater articulation real lockers front and rear is the best. It also has a suspension that rides softer off road. I like the tremor best if you need more GVW and at least it has Torsen front locker.
Ya the F350 Tremor high output diesel is hard to beat. If you get the xlt f350 tremor HO diesel, no sunroof, you'll have 4224 pounds of payload. Chevy and Ram can't come close
New trucks and vehicles are too crazy expensive. If I bought what I really wanted I would be using every cent I could save to make the bank payment for the next 10 years no joke.😢. My Dad bought a 2002 Chevy Silverado extended cab 4x4 with a 6liter V8 3600lbs of payload and 10000lbs of towing. Bought the truck new for 28,000 dollars truck is showing its age but has 280,000ish miles on the clock and still runs pretty reliably. Whether you buy base midsize or compact truck you are paying as much or a little more for it than my Dad payed for his heavy duty pick up truly crazy!!😮
It needs a solid axle and a front locker. I would still take the Power Wagon. The Multimatic shocks on the first gen Colorado ZR2's had major leaking issues. I know mine leaked on my 2018. Hopefully they have solved that issue. Either way, these prices are just out of control.
I love big trucks and I love trucks that are legitimately built to do truck stuff, I grew up in a little desert town not far from Johnson Valley and that's pretty much all there was to do. Go out and play in the dirt! My only concern is those DSSV shocks on the GM, I've seen a few guys retrofit them onto Suburbans and Tahoes only to end up destroying them putting them through hard trail use. Hopefully one of these days GM and Ford set up to a more real world off-road dispensing setup, but for now I'm seeing less Dodge guys crying about suspension failures on the trail.
1:02 I think the Powerwagon is quite a bit shorter in both wheelbase and overall length. Ford and GM use longer beds and have around 10" more wheelbase.
I'd say GM 6.0 Z71 2015-2018 with a built front end is by far the best buy. Out of the door $25,000!! 1 million mile motor and 300k transmission, and has already stood the test of time!!
I don't do enough real off road to worry about the independent front end, I prefer it. It rides better and more importantly it steers and drives much better than the other two. Way more relaxing especially towing while going down the highway.
I have a 2022 F-350 Tremor Lariat Ultimate with Black Out package, winch and most other options - was $89k MSRP in July 2021 when ordered and with XPlan cost $82k - so costs have gone way up - similar build for 2023 Tremor would be $103k +/-! Only disappointing thing about it is the payload is only 3,249 which seemed low - for 2023 the payload of the same build is 300-500 lbs. higher from the trucks I have seen in person. Before I had a GMC AT4 - I miss the heads up display, quality of the cameras in GM and the rear seat - seat back pockets - one of my favorite features on the GM interior. Love my 2022 looks over the 2023 Tremor - but would love to have the HO diesel. I have done lots of mods - but hands down favorite mod is the S&B 60 gallon replacement fuel tank - love the range and flexibility - but it does hurt to fill it up! Thanks for the great content!
Thanks for the review. Prices are to be epected (high) but what really hurts people in skme states too is plating them and getting them on the road with sales tax and personal property tax.
** Important Announcement ** I purchased a new 2024 Chevy 2500HD Z71 LTZ last Friday. I had it less than a week. Driving about 35MPH the vehicle went into limp mode, enginve light on, other lights on and I limped home with transmission acting crazy and steering way off and braking an issue. Mileage on the vehicle was 308 when this happened. Pulled codes with my code reader and it displayed 1 code of C1555. I am pissed! This truck wasn't cheap. Shared this comment on another channel to get the word out there. Looking up the issue isn't unique to me.
12:10 wondering where he just randomly finds a random, disconnected shock...then sees the random "free range" tire in the background...the desert is a wild place
Well, they are just all too big for me, but thanks for all the excellent info. I run tight trails in Northern Michigan, so I need a shorter and narrower 4x4 for what I do off road. My lifted and tricked out Jeep GC WK2 4x4 diesel fits perfect for what I need right now, with some occasional towing that rarely exceeds 5,000 lbs.
if you are talking a true hardcore offroad HD, you can't beat the Powerwagon. Yes the payload is lighter but I don't know many people who are doing to put a toyhauler on the same vehicle they are going to go hardcore 4-wheeling in. As an all-around vehicle, the Ford Temor would be a good choice but it will not keep up with the Power Wagon in hardcore wheeling.
I would love to see a video on those three vehicles on Gas millage. I want to no if you're going to use one of these 3 with a slide in camper for traveling does it make sense to buy the diesel option or stay with the gas engine.
I'd like to see you test the safety equipment. My 2021 Ford Ranger is supposed to stop if there's something in the road in front of me. I have no idea if it works. Maybe you guys could set up a pile of cardboard boxes in the shape of another vehicle and test that system.
I have a 2022 f-150 and thought the same thing. Then I had it activate one time when I was passing someone on the left and a car was slowing down in front of me. I think Ford is a little less aggressive as some manufacturers, I think with the trucks that’s a good thing especially when hauling a load or towing. My Gf has a Cadillac Xt4 and it activates a lot easier with the warning.
@@marcg.3830 the level of pervasiveness of the pre-collision system can be adjusted. I turned mine down because it would get sensitive. Same with the lane departure warnings.
Would have loved to see a comparison of the ride between the trucks. Motortrend just did a review of a F250 tremor and said the ride was horrendous. So are the plain jane shocks on the tremor that big of a handicap? Is it a deal breaker?
Just traded my 2018 Power Wagon for a 2023 F350 Tremor Lariat. The Tremor is actually cheaper to fill since the Hemi requires 91 octane, which is premium grade and cost as much as diesel while the Ford is fine with 87 octane. You should mention that in your comparison.
My 2018 recommended 89 octane in it's manual, but says 87 is acceptable. I noticed a lot of knocking on 87, and the main place I fuel up is Sams club which has either 87 or 93, and with 93, she would not knock at all. The Tremor seems to run just fine on 87 and Ford make a big deal out of mentioning all their gas trucks run on 87, so that is my point. @@1134EMP
These 3/4 ton prices have gotten just crazy. Honestly for what everyone is specing at the dealers the ZR2 is a solid option unless you want a baseline WT. The LTs and LTZs are about the same price because they're all fully loaded. If you can find a ZR2 it would probably be the best value in the 70k range
Every HD truck comparo test states how awesome the PW is in both off-road capability as well as highway ride but goes on forever about too bad about the 33’s, payload and towing. So, um, put on 35’s (fit with zero needed mods), and rear airbags. Now its the best of all worlds. The axles, diffs and frame of the PW are full 3/4 ton spec and its just the soft springs that limit payload and towing. Airbags solve that for when you need that capability.
Hopefully those shocks don't leak like the ones on my Colorado ZR2. Rears have been replaced once already and are notorious for it. Can't rebuild them either and cost you 1k for each which is ridiculous. Surprised this hasn't become a recall.
I mean don't forget the tradesman PW. If you really want bang for buck, you can't really beat that. Take all three out and tell me which truck is more comfortable. In my opinion the PW takes ride quality hands down. Granted I own a Power Wagon so I'm incredibly biased lol.
I just went through this process of choosing between these three trucks over the last few months. Went with the F250 Tremor in Lariat with Sport Appearance and Ultimate with the 6.7 HO. MSRP was $90k on the nose. After comparing that price to the other two, the Ford was a better deal for what you get. An added bonus - An F250 Tremor in diesel is a 1-ton with a 3/4-ton badge (F350 and F250 Tremor are identical). Giving me a 3097lb payload to work with!
Could someone explain why the ford right rear tire was in full lock while the other three tires were spinning turning hard right at 17:02 marker in the video
@@ALMX5DP for me personally the wife has a jeep srt that makes more power than the power wagon. It’s dumb but I just can’t get passed that and trade my 1500 for less power than her passenger vehicle. Wish it had a big 7.3 pushrod.
@@heavyarms951 sure but remember HD pickups like this are specifically tuned for the types of uses they see. Many times such engines produce less horsepower than their passenger vehicle counterparts to help maintain a flatter torque curve or knowing the types of loads they’ll pull so that they can keep revs down and have sufficient cooling for sustained use. And just because displacement is bumped doesn’t mean power will be substantially different. Ford’s 7.3 isn’t too drastically different in terms of peak output to the 6.4 but again it’s designed for that flat torque curve.
I would like more torque from the 6.4 as well.. they detuned it , but the HD version is built more robust than the jeep, etc. That said, the 4.10 axles haul almost 4000 lbs in mine often.
Looks like I’ll still be rocking my 16 LTZ duramax well into the future. Could I afford a new truck, sure…….however, what normal person thinks it’s okay to drop 90-100k on a nicely equipped truck.
I just find it crazy that GM has to go to an aftermarket company to make these even better offroad oriented vehicles. My guess is it would have been cheaper to just do the bumpers, wheel and tires, and skid plates on their own without AEV.
It’s very common for manufacturers to outsource low volume/limited production vehicles. GM already had a relationship with AEV with the Colorado bison. Why commit a team of engineers to making a truck very off road capable when you can outsource that to a reputable company built around making off road trucks? The bison package is also an optional extra on top of the ZR2 trim.
First, I really appreciate your content across many channels. I appreciate your content on new vehicles and keeping us updated on features. However, the current economic climate sucks, and fewer people can look at these new trucks as an option. I really enjoy your content on older vehicles as well, it would be nice to see more content on older, used trucks and comparing them head to head, and get 1 year plus ownership expert experience with those vehicles. I'm talking 80s, 90s, and early 00s. How much truck does a guy really need? What are the most reliable trucks with affordable use, maintenance, and repairs? I love it when old trucks/cars are compared to new trucks/cars. It's not that I don't like your new vehicle content - it's great, it's just that myself and most people can't afford these new trucks, and to be honest, I'm not personally interested as I feel that newer vehicles aren't really all that. Too much complexity and bells and whistles, but too little in terms of hardiness, reliability, and ease of repairs. I get new trucks haul more, are more comfy, handle well, and have mo powa baby! But, does all that matter in the bigger picture of vehicle ownership? Again, nothing is wrong with the new truck content. The new vehicles are quite capable, but are they worth the $$$ that most people don't have? We (the people) could use more guidance in terms of what old vehicles compare to what we need in our everyday lives. Do we need a 3 year old F150 to get our best chance at reliability and versatility? Or should I buy a mid 90s 2wd Toyota mini truck with a 5 spd manual and an early 00s Honda accord for less than 10 grand? Would that combo do the truck jobs most people need? How much is spent on gas? How big of a truck (really?) to haul a camper? Maybe some stuff kinda like Donut Media's Hi car/low car, but like how happy/expensive is a new truck ownership experience vs. a person who finds affordable options that are efficient, affective, and hit that sweet spot for reliability. I have sold my newer vehicles over the past year and did some research on what to buy. I now have a 90s toyota and am really digging the experience thus far vs. owning a new vehicle. I have ease of repairs, low parts costs, fuel efficiency, and decent reliability. I've mostly owned only used vehicles, but with the couple of first owner experiences I have had, I can't say that I've been happier or problem free in those experiences. I bet many people feel the same, and would appreciate content that helps define the entirety of vehicle ownership from costs, to happiness in terms of performance/efficiency, and if the compromises vs a new vehicle in terms of bells and whistles/capability really affected them that much?
Buy a Toyota truck and forget the Big Three. I’m sorry the economy is rough for you and so many others. Thank god this administration has gotten inflation down to 4%. We’re almost there. Coming out of the shutdown, paired with corporate gouging has made it rough for everyone. Best to you.
I just don’t see how this is objectively better at off-roading than the Powerwagon. And the diesel option certainly doesn’t help with off-roading, so that rules out that feature. The Bison up-fitted model has additional parts added on top of the base ZR2 and could easily be added to a Tremor or Powerwagon just the same.
But there is a white elephant in the room though... to my understanding is that the HD ZR2 does not come with a locker in the front end. Where the Ram dose and the Ford has a limited slip front end. Also lets not forget the lifter issues that GM has as well. I'm a huge GM fan, and was exited for a HD ZR2. But after hearing that it doesn't have any type of locker in the front end was a HUGE let down for me. For me, I'm going for the Ford.
Run them all through your 4WD course in Colorado. Thx TFL.
Will do ASAP!
@@TFLoffroad🤣 man don't tease us we'll be waiting!!!
I have the f250 tremor with Godzilla engine. Yes, it's thirsty. That aside, it does everything really well. Including towing my 12k fifth wheel through the Sierras and Rockies. The additional weight of the diesels on the front in off road situations is a negative as is the effect of all the slow speed idling on the emissions equipment. So between that, the cost of diesel vs gas and the lack of expensive and complicated emissions gear, I went gas. I have not regretted it (also have a Ram diesel in the driveway, so I know the difference). I installed a 58 gallon gas tank, so range is not an issue either. I finished a 6k mile trip this summer with the fifth wheel and averaged 9 mpg for the trip (CA to KY and back). My diesel with same trailer and route averages 10 mpg. So it's a good trade.
I appreciate your comparison on gas vs diesel. Makes me lean further towards gas
This. I have a landscape company and it has never made sense to own a diesel truck. They are more expensive in every way. Unless you're loaded heavy every day I guess but still some of those old box vans and moving trucks etc were gas engine and lasted for 100s of ks and did it so with less expense.
They come standard with financial counseling to deal with those $1,200.00 a month payments
😂 wouldnt be surprised if they start coming out with 15 year financing
Not a poor man's truck. Never was meant to be......
Just pay cash........ no payments and saves you money!
@@rsbreeze not always....depends where you have your cash and what loan is costing......alot do pay cash though
At the peak, better off keeping your money making bigger dividends than loan is costing
Diesel heading to $7.00 a gallon plus
Recently made this decision. For 69k I went for the 2023 F250 XLT Tremor with the 7.3. For that price I got 360 cameras, premium audio, panoramic moonroof, upfitter switches and more. Power wagon doesn’t actually compete in the HD space with regards to payload, and to get the features I have on a Rebel HD the least expensive I could find was 85k. One thing not mentioned is that Ford uses the same leaf pack and axles on the 250 Tremor as they do the 350 Tremor. The only difference is the door jamb sticker. So essentially a 250 Tremor’s payload # is just de-rated and the truck can realistically (not legally) handle more. Love my truck and although I don’t consider 68k to be cheap, I feel like in comparison to the other options it’s actually a reasonable value.
I've always wondered what the godzilla 7.3 engine would sound like with some proper pipes underneath. Honestly, If you can get anything for under 70K that's heavy duty and that many options, id say your right on par. Considering a king ranch F-150 will run you in the high 60s (in my area), id say you made a good choice, as long as it does everything you require. Tremors are sharp looking trucks too.
For king ranch f150? Wow, the xlt hybrid are 68k+ here already.
Well done! Good decision.
Power wagon is the same way. I have done up to 15k even off road, no issues
@@LloydSwartz-i4m Yea, I’m sure its capable of it, but Ram’s crazy low payload rating makes it impossible to tow much legally. The Powerwagon I test drove had less than 1300 lbs of payload, my Tremor is rated for 3261 even though its a 250 (a 350 would add around 500lbs more).
One important feature ZR2 has that the Tremor or the Rebel do not have? Factory snow plow prep. Ford and Ram do NOT allow their factory plow prep to be ordered with the Tremor (Ford) or Rebel (Ram). GM still allows VYU plow prep to be ordered on the ZR2.
That doesn't make any sense. Off-road use requires a certain spring rate, so does carrying a snow plow. They're different spring rates. You're never going to get the right spring for both jobs without going with an air setup in the front.
@@snowmanwithahat The front torsion bars on the ZR2 are the same p/ns as the bars on a regular 4x4 or Z71 with plow prep. That's how. They didn't change the bars they use. 2024s the front axle gross with VYU plow prep is 6000lbs, no matter the engine, no matter a regular 4x4 or the ZR2. The ZR2 has the extra height and the trick shocks, but otherwise its still just as capable as the regular HDs.
Guy that lives across from me, never met him, but he just got a new 2024 Chevy 2500 HD ZR2 with the Duramax, looks awesome!!
I am extremely fortunate to have purchased a newer HD truck before the prices went insane........ these prices are absolutely ridiculous!
They have been crazy for quite a while
Tell me about it, just quoted a 24 AT4x HD with AEV package. Almost fell out of the chair when they told me $103k
Same with me... purchased a 21 Ram PW (anniversary) for 67k... I would not be able to afford that PW today with similar options (87k)
What goes up must come down.
Chevy ZR2 Diesel for me
I just got my 2022 pw fully loaded and dealership marked it down from 80k to 74k. For me and my budget this truck was exactly what i wanted. More space, more storage, and very offroad capable with front and rear lockers and a front disconnecting sway bar and winch from the factory. Yes the payload is horrendous and the mpg is a killer, but if you know about powerwagons then you werent planning on saving gas or towing now were you? 😅😅😅 still cool to see other companies coming into this market tho. Nice work andre!👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
Just curious as im looking to get a power wagon myself. Fully loaded whats the payload? Thank you I appreciate it.
@@bod7425 just checked the door sticker and my 22 pw with lv 3, tow package, and offroad package says 1314 payload. All ram trucks except for the leaf spring 3500s and up have much lower payload than other trucks cause they switched to springs and shocks on all four corners instead. But there are videos that have a bed loaded to 2500 lbs and the bump stops arent even touching the axles. Legally you cant go over the sticker but the pw is still a 2500 platform just with offroad tuned shocks and springs.
@@bod7425 if you still want payload and front and rear lockers i would look into gmc sierra hd at4x. I think thats gonna have what you want. Good luck!
@@bod7425 Advice, skip the ram boxes. Ordered a 2024 and had a 2020. The ram boxes add a lot of weight.
@@muskaman2k My current 2021 ram 1500 rebel has 1400ish. But I still want the power wagon for the front locker and sway bar disconnect. Does the sway bar disconnect make offroad driving significantly more comfortable? Thank you
These prices are insane. So glad I got my Ram 2500 in early 21. Another thing one can do if you want a “baby power wagon” is get a 2500 with the 6.4 and add the level 1 Laramie package and off-road package. Add a full thuren suspension and boom, baby power wagon minus the lockers and sway bar disconnect.
Thank you so much for this comparison. I like this style of comparison because you get all the side by side details the right way.
Man I just have to say you guys are so fair with your reviews. Andre especially is non-opiniated and it makes for a great watch. Keep it up guys! Best car review/overview channel out there! P.S. can you please do some more odd car overviews?
Fair? The video was mostly Chevy....
Perfect comparison Andre. Lots of details and well covered. Thanks
I hope the 5 people that can afford these trucks really enjoy this video!
Love the AEV Crestone wheels on the ZR2 Bison. Best looking wheels out of all 3 trucks.
I don't have a problem with independent front suspension. The military version of the Hummer (HMMWV) has an independent suspension all the way around and was excellent off road. We could drive them places where you couldn't even walk.
That depends on where your at
Those things where straight garbage in Alaska
And the Marines have been using nothing but fully independent suspension tactical vehicles including 7 tons for decades now instead of solid axles for both front and rear.
Don’t forget the Portal axles.
@@2-1inffwa97an ex military guy stated that the h-1 is just good in desert conditions, on the uneven ground the limited suspension travel is the weak point, I have heard an amusing story of a h-1 try and follow lifted (tippy)Jeeps and Toyotas and roll over due to the lack of suspension travel..
ZR2, no question is the best truck here.
We want the all hand on deck comparison. Mud, rocks, climbs, desert, engine stress, winch recovery, river crossings, lockers... All this with and without payload. A full and true 4x4 comparison
The powerwagon would easily be the best. With front and rear lockers and detachable front sway bar. It has the most articulation.
I have always been a Ford guy and am a current Raptor owner but I really like this Chevy HD ZR2. If I were considering a 2500 this would be at the top of my list along with the Tremor F250.
My dream truck will be the 2500 gmc at4x aev diesel.
I would definitely do the zr2 HD. I enjoy the independent suspension plus it has some really cool shock tech compared to ram and ford. If I towed over 10k regularly I would do diesel but I would probably go for the gas. I really enjoy the Silverado HD facelift.
Andre I prefer the 7.3 in a Lariat Tremor. Same thing as my 2020 with 90k. Love the truck and no issues and we tow the same skid steer-16k and 35' boat-17k.
The Power wagon is simply not worth it .. payload is 1500 pounds or less. Get a half ton. I've owned several Rams, and the 6'4 standard bed vs 6'8-10 beds of the competitors is a huge downside
Andre your dream truck in an F250 is $99,125 on the for build and price. And it comes with cruise control.
Just waiting to hit the PowerBall !
Thank you for this video! Made my decision much easier! Very informative! ZR2 it is!!
I’d get a gas zr2 without the bison package. Save about 20k right there
Idk I had a power wagon a Colorado zr2 a ram 2500 diesel and a van. My thoughts if you are looking for a "overland" don't waste you time on trucks just get a van they are such a nicer experience than anything you can do with a pickup. But if you are going off road I'd say stick with the Colorado because you can get down more trails especially in Washington where we have narrow trails. You should see my van I have a queen bed and bench seat in my van and can still load bikes and possibly a quad. Diy van builds all the way 🍻
My build out currently I still have 1700 lbs of payload left and that's including me and my kids weight so we still got 1700 lbs no subtracting for passengers
What brand of van did you go with? Does it have AWD or 4x4? How many miles in it and any problems? Tx
@@is6566i have a ram promaster 159" 2500 I've done 13000 miles on it so far had it for about 2 years now it's front wheel drive I specifically picked a promaster because I believe it's the best value and the best cargo van in general I have alot of reasons I've listed in various promaster forums on Facebook. I've been in snow and felt safe I've been down dirt trails which is 90% of what people do most people aren't doing rock crawling in their home away from home so 4x4 is unnecessary plus a Mercedes with 4x4 is super tall my promaster with my max air fans and solar can still fit in most drive thrus. I wish I got better mpg get like 14.5 which is how much a pickup gets with no bed to sleep a no fridge no batteries no interior trim so the van already wins over a truck on the fuel.
Maybe if you’re camping in established campgrounds or easy dirt roads, yes vans all the way. But if you’re going to something more technical then vans are pretty much useless. I’ve seen more 4x4 Sprinters broke down on trails more than Jeeps (I pulled a Sprinter out with my 4Runner not too long ago 😅). Capability between a proper off-road truck and a camper van is night and day difference.
@@whocaresjustdoit for sure that's why I clarified but most people just drive down logging roads (dirt roads) or drive on regular roads that are covered in snow. I've had all of those different rigs I've tried all of these different types of camping: basic tent camping using a car, basic tent camping using a pickup, truck cap camping, RV camping, bus camping, SUV camping, van camping, pickup truck tent camping. The only option I had left for my pickups were to do a 4wheel camper which at that point why not just do a van since you are going to be too tall for most jeep trails anyway with these camper style pickups and would be limited to places vans go anywhere but then when you get to camp in a pick up you have to setup camp for these truck bed camper you have to leave the cab to enter into the living area in a van you park you are done no setting up a tent in the snow or rain. Say a natural disaster rolled through and I had to bug out I have everything I need to live in a van comfortably for years vrs a truck camper you want to do that everyday for a few years if something crazy happened? I know I wouldn't I could make due with a van but a truck camper would get annoying real quick. To the breaking down issue I feel that's a few factors people doing trails their vehicle isn't capable of so lack of driver ability and knowledge then they overload their vans or have them fully loaded all the time and that comes down to how they built the van if it's heavy it's going to break. My van is one of the lightest builds I've seen most people's builds are 8000 I'm at 7200lbs my gvwr is 8900 so I've got alot of wiggle room vs the avg van build and that was by design really. So yes I agree but also it's complicated
All these trucks are very capable. You have to buy the truck that best fits your needs. I am not much of an off-roader, but I bought a Power Wagon for it’s work capability. I run a ranch in Montana and I need to be able to haul hay and equipment up and down muddy and snowy roads, and across fields and pastures with mud and snow. The only vehicle I have found that can do this, besides my tractor, is the Power Wagon. At a 10,000 lb towing capacity, I may have to make two trips, but I always make it. The front lockers, the solid front axle. along with the disconnecting sway bar, makes this truck almost unstoppable for what I use it for.
Andre, if you’re going to talk off-road trucks, please make turning radius part of the discussion. Yes, I understand that HD pickups will take more space to turn around; my F-150 takes three full-size lanes to make a U-turn. I appreciate that HD trucks have beam axles and heavier steering components. However, with the increased popularity of off-road vehicles, this can be a way for manufacturers to be innovative and differentiate themselves from competitors. None of the big three is putting effort into this. However, after the first truck is built with a reduced turning radius, the others will respond. Also, a smaller turning radius could help manage a trailer and maneuver at a job site. The tailgate war didn’t start until the first shot was fired. Then, all Hell broke loose.
The F450 has that reduce turning radius
@@steevehudon8941 Excellent. So Ford already has paid the engineering cost. Bring it on Ford for the 250 Tremor. I would replace my F-150 with that for my farm truck.
@@RickActual
Engineering consists of a wider front track for more steering angle.
Ez on a dually F-450...would be odd on a SRW to have a wider front track than rear.
Gm will have the shortest turning radius
I’m so opposed to the crazy expensive tailgates… it just adds to the cost, so unnecessary.
I did my preferred Tremor build on an XLT trim with Baja interior, as I LOVE cloth trim, and it came to $71,500. My gas "Andre" King Ranch version was $90,000 for the gasser, with the HO diesel coming in at a heady $102,000 !!
Great overall view, tough choice if there isn’t a brand loyalty playing in.
Only thing I’m a little concerned about is the price tag every time the shocks needs replacing.
There’s a company that is already working on rebuild setups for them. It’s around 1k for all four.
I just ordered the HD ZR2 in gas. Have no idea when it will arrive. Hopefully the strike won’t delay delivery.
For pure off road use the Power Wagon with its greater articulation real lockers front and rear is the best. It also has a suspension that rides softer off road. I like the tremor best if you need more GVW and at least it has Torsen front locker.
Ya the F350 Tremor high output diesel is hard to beat. If you get the xlt f350 tremor HO diesel, no sunroof, you'll have 4224 pounds of payload. Chevy and Ram can't come close
I love that zr2 its so badass
too bad its GM garbage
@toddbob55, stupid fanboi!
New trucks and vehicles are too crazy expensive. If I bought what I really wanted I would be using every cent I could save to make the bank payment for the next 10 years no joke.😢. My Dad bought a 2002 Chevy Silverado extended cab 4x4 with a 6liter V8 3600lbs of payload and 10000lbs of towing. Bought the truck new for 28,000 dollars truck is showing its age but has 280,000ish miles on the clock and still runs pretty reliably. Whether you buy base midsize or compact truck you are paying as much or a little more for it than my Dad payed for his heavy duty pick up truly crazy!!😮
It needs a solid axle and a front locker. I would still take the Power Wagon. The Multimatic shocks on the first gen Colorado ZR2's had major leaking issues. I know mine leaked on my 2018. Hopefully they have solved that issue. Either way, these prices are just out of control.
The independent suspension does just as good as a job as the solid axle. And it drives better.
I love big trucks and I love trucks that are legitimately built to do truck stuff, I grew up in a little desert town not far from Johnson Valley and that's pretty much all there was to do. Go out and play in the dirt! My only concern is those DSSV shocks on the GM, I've seen a few guys retrofit them onto Suburbans and Tahoes only to end up destroying them putting them through hard trail use. Hopefully one of these days GM and Ford set up to a more real world off-road dispensing setup, but for now I'm seeing less Dodge guys crying about suspension failures on the trail.
Lucern? And you shopped at lucern valley market and hardware. Lol. I lived in oakhills/hesperia for 20 years. Home of KOH baby
I’m a Mopar or no car guy. But, right now I would get a ‘24 GMC HD AT4X AEV Edition.
We will be able to review the GMC trucks in mid October.
Andre, As of 29 SEP 23 at 0946HRS EST, I checked the ram 2024 2500 tradesman configurator and there is NO OPTION for a powerwagon package.
It's there IF YOU select 4.10 axle ratio package.
Truck king said earlier the chevy does not have a front locker. Is this correct TFL?
1:02 I think the Powerwagon is quite a bit shorter in both wheelbase and overall length. Ford and GM use longer beds and have around 10" more wheelbase.
I noticed that error as well
Apologies. The Ram HD Power Wagon and HD Rebel have a wheelbase of 149 inches (not 160 inches).
I'd say GM 6.0 Z71 2015-2018 with a built front end is by far the best buy. Out of the door $25,000!! 1 million mile motor and 300k transmission, and has already stood the test of time!!
I don't do enough real off road to worry about the independent front end, I prefer it. It rides better and more importantly it steers and drives much better than the other two. Way more relaxing especially towing while going down the highway.
Excellent comparison! Thorough!!
Thank you for watching and the kind words.
I would still love to get the Chevy 2500 bison is a cool looking truck
Chevy is also advertising the HD Trail Boss as coming soon as a ‘25 model intro.
Yes!
I have a 2022 F-350 Tremor Lariat Ultimate with Black Out package, winch and most other options - was $89k MSRP in July 2021 when ordered and with XPlan cost $82k - so costs have gone way up - similar build for 2023 Tremor would be $103k +/-! Only disappointing thing about it is the payload is only 3,249 which seemed low - for 2023 the payload of the same build is 300-500 lbs. higher from the trucks I have seen in person. Before I had a GMC AT4 - I miss the heads up display, quality of the cameras in GM and the rear seat - seat back pockets - one of my favorite features on the GM interior. Love my 2022 looks over the 2023 Tremor - but would love to have the HO diesel. I have done lots of mods - but hands down favorite mod is the S&B 60 gallon replacement fuel tank - love the range and flexibility - but it does hurt to fill it up! Thanks for the great content!
Thought MT stands for mud terrain
Thanks for the review. Prices are to be epected (high) but what really hurts people in skme states too is plating them and getting them on the road with sales tax and personal property tax.
I’d pick F250 XLT with tremor package and Godzilla
Recently did just that and it’s an awesome truck!
Love the 7.3 gas
Ive got a Lariat F250 Powerstroke Tremor. Cant be beat
Great video Andre. Thank you.
Thank you for watching.
Excelente comparativa la mejor pickup del mercado es la Chevrolet Silverado HD 2.500 ZR2 luce con más estilo
** Important Announcement ** I purchased a new 2024 Chevy 2500HD Z71 LTZ last Friday. I had it less than a week. Driving about 35MPH the vehicle went into limp mode, enginve light on, other lights on and I limped home with transmission acting crazy and steering way off and braking an issue. Mileage on the vehicle was 308 when this happened. Pulled codes with my code reader and it displayed 1 code of C1555. I am pissed! This truck wasn't cheap. Shared this comment on another channel to get the word out there. Looking up the issue isn't unique to me.
Truck shut down again today. I smell a lemon. 500 miles on this new truck.
Its actually a minor problem to fix. Although its serious driving down the hiway. But the C1555 is the Power Steering Motor Relay Welding Failure.
I'd go straight to the most capable offroad truck the powerwagon with front and rear lockers and detachable front sway bar.
12:10 wondering where he just randomly finds a random, disconnected shock...then sees the random "free range" tire in the background...the desert is a wild place
Well, they are just all too big for me, but thanks for all the excellent info. I run tight trails in Northern Michigan, so I need a shorter and narrower 4x4 for what I do off road. My lifted and tricked out Jeep GC WK2 4x4 diesel fits perfect for what I need right now, with some occasional towing that rarely exceeds 5,000 lbs.
if you are talking a true hardcore offroad HD, you can't beat the Powerwagon. Yes the payload is lighter but I don't know many people who are doing to put a toyhauler on the same vehicle they are going to go hardcore 4-wheeling in. As an all-around vehicle, the Ford Temor would be a good choice but it will not keep up with the Power Wagon in hardcore wheeling.
Well done, Andre.
I would love to see a video on those three vehicles on Gas millage. I want to no if you're going to use one of these 3 with a slide in camper for traveling does it make sense to buy the diesel option or stay with the gas engine.
I wonder if those dssv shocks will fit the current generation z71 2500 hd might be a nice upgrade.
I'd like to see you test the safety equipment. My 2021 Ford Ranger is supposed to stop if there's something in the road in front of me. I have no idea if it works. Maybe you guys could set up a pile of cardboard boxes in the shape of another vehicle and test that system.
I have a 2022 f-150 and thought the same thing. Then I had it activate one time when I was passing someone on the left and a car was slowing down in front of me. I think Ford is a little less aggressive as some manufacturers, I think with the trucks that’s a good thing especially when hauling a load or towing. My Gf has a Cadillac Xt4 and it activates a lot easier with the warning.
@@marcg.3830 the level of pervasiveness of the pre-collision system can be adjusted. I turned mine down because it would get sensitive. Same with the lane departure warnings.
@@staypufft80 I know
Would have loved to see a comparison of the ride between the trucks. Motortrend just did a review of a F250 tremor and said the ride was horrendous. So are the plain jane shocks on the tremor that big of a handicap? Is it a deal breaker?
Just traded my 2018 Power Wagon for a 2023 F350 Tremor Lariat. The Tremor is actually cheaper to fill since the Hemi requires 91 octane, which is premium grade and cost as much as diesel while the Ford is fine with 87 octane. You should mention that in your comparison.
Premium is not required. Mine runs on 87 just fine
My 2018 recommended 89 octane in it's manual, but says 87 is acceptable. I noticed a lot of knocking on 87, and the main place I fuel up is Sams club which has either 87 or 93, and with 93, she would not knock at all. The Tremor seems to run just fine on 87 and Ford make a big deal out of mentioning all their gas trucks run on 87, so that is my point. @@1134EMP
I do gas for payload because the camper I like I'm pretty sure would not work with the diesels I'd have to double check it again
These 3/4 ton prices have gotten just crazy. Honestly for what everyone is specing at the dealers the ZR2 is a solid option unless you want a baseline WT. The LTs and LTZs are about the same price because they're all fully loaded. If you can find a ZR2 it would probably be the best value in the 70k range
Every HD truck comparo test states how awesome the PW is in both off-road capability as well as highway ride but goes on forever about too bad about the 33’s, payload and towing. So, um, put on 35’s (fit with zero needed mods), and rear airbags. Now its the best of all worlds. The axles, diffs and frame of the PW are full 3/4 ton spec and its just the soft springs that limit payload and towing. Airbags solve that for when you need that capability.
Hopefully those shocks don't leak like the ones on my Colorado ZR2. Rears have been replaced once already and are notorious for it. Can't rebuild them either and cost you 1k for each which is ridiculous. Surprised this hasn't become a recall.
" I see value here " 😂😂😂 ... Good one Andre.
I mean don't forget the tradesman PW. If you really want bang for buck, you can't really beat that. Take all three out and tell me which truck is more comfortable. In my opinion the PW takes ride quality hands down. Granted I own a Power Wagon so I'm incredibly biased lol.
Sorry the ram doesn't ride better then a gm hd
@@atg1338 offroad it will.
Best to have a work truck / hauler then get a small compact off-roader. My opinion
Take us for a ride when you get that King Ranch TREMOR, Andre !!
Would be nice if GM did a ZR2 or Trailboss package on a WT like Ram. Save $10k and "only" spend $87k on a truck. What a deal!😂
Just don’t get the bison package and you save 10k 😂. 82k for a diesel zr2 is a steal I think for what you get.
Trail Boss HD is coming. Sources confirmed this at the ZR2 truck drive event.
You always get 50% or more back on a diesel. Expensive but cheap to own!
@tfloffroad f250 powerstroke lariat with Carli pintop kit or the ZR2 HD Duramax?
Power wagon is still the off road capable king and by far the best looking truck
Agree. For nearly 20 years now.
I just went through this process of choosing between these three trucks over the last few months. Went with the F250 Tremor in Lariat with Sport Appearance and Ultimate with the 6.7 HO. MSRP was $90k on the nose. After comparing that price to the other two, the Ford was a better deal for what you get. An added bonus - An F250 Tremor in diesel is a 1-ton with a 3/4-ton badge (F350 and F250 Tremor are identical). Giving me a 3097lb payload to work with!
I’d like to see what happens with the gas engines with a turbo. How would they compare to the diesel
Could someone explain why the ford right rear tire was in full lock while the other three tires were spinning turning hard right at 17:02 marker in the video
I saw that also. Hmmm
This zr2 is awesome
I wish ram would develop a new big block push rod gasser.
What’s wrong with the 6.4?
@@ALMX5DP for me personally the wife has a jeep srt that makes more power than the power wagon. It’s dumb but I just can’t get passed that and trade my 1500 for less power than her passenger vehicle. Wish it had a big 7.3 pushrod.
@@heavyarms951 sure but remember HD pickups like this are specifically tuned for the types of uses they see. Many times such engines produce less horsepower than their passenger vehicle counterparts to help maintain a flatter torque curve or knowing the types of loads they’ll pull so that they can keep revs down and have sufficient cooling for sustained use. And just because displacement is bumped doesn’t mean power will be substantially different. Ford’s 7.3 isn’t too drastically different in terms of peak output to the 6.4 but again it’s designed for that flat torque curve.
@@ALMX5DP I just assumed it was for longevity.
I would like more torque from the 6.4 as well.. they detuned it , but the HD version is built more robust than the jeep, etc.
That said, the 4.10 axles haul almost 4000 lbs in mine often.
power wagon wheelbase is only 149 inches, not 160. its the smallest HD crew cab truck in this segment.
Was this filmed in Twentynine palms?
Chevy with the Duramax but not the bison package. Gotta have those DSSV dampers!
Can you put a plow on it? If not those shocks are not built for HD. Warranty a plow on those shocks and I’ll believe they are heavy duty
They offer snow plow packages on the zr2 so i assume it is ok?
@@fongvang935 if you can put a plow on it that definitely put it above ford, can’t put in on a tremor.
Is the Chevy ZR2 the only one with an independent front suspension setup?
Power Wagon for me 💪
All of these are just too big to drive on fireroads in wooded areas. They work well in the great basin.
Platinum tremor, then carli suspension upgrade
Blah blah blah
Looks like I’ll still be rocking my 16 LTZ duramax well into the future. Could I afford a new truck, sure…….however, what normal person thinks it’s okay to drop 90-100k on a nicely equipped truck.
If you told someone from 25- 30 years ago, that a pickup truck would cost north of 80k, they would probably think you were "smoking something".
It's a cool and very capable truck, but it shouldn't be called ZR2 without a front locker.
The one feature they should have for an offroad oriented truck is exactly what's missing
independent front suspension in a heavy duty application has durability concerns with a front locker.
More on road.plow
Include the AEV edition from Ram. If you are comparing the Chevy Silverado AEV edition.
Good video 😀
I just find it crazy that GM has to go to an aftermarket company to make these even better offroad oriented vehicles. My guess is it would have been cheaper to just do the bumpers, wheel and tires, and skid plates on their own without AEV.
It’s very common for manufacturers to outsource low volume/limited production vehicles. GM already had a relationship with AEV with the Colorado bison. Why commit a team of engineers to making a truck very off road capable when you can outsource that to a reputable company built around making off road trucks?
The bison package is also an optional extra on top of the ZR2 trim.
It has always been cheaper to contract out parts whether guns, trucks and planes.
First, I really appreciate your content across many channels. I appreciate your content on new vehicles and keeping us updated on features. However, the current economic climate sucks, and fewer people can look at these new trucks as an option. I really enjoy your content on older vehicles as well, it would be nice to see more content on older, used trucks and comparing them head to head, and get 1 year plus ownership expert experience with those vehicles. I'm talking 80s, 90s, and early 00s. How much truck does a guy really need? What are the most reliable trucks with affordable use, maintenance, and repairs? I love it when old trucks/cars are compared to new trucks/cars. It's not that I don't like your new vehicle content - it's great, it's just that myself and most people can't afford these new trucks, and to be honest, I'm not personally interested as I feel that newer vehicles aren't really all that. Too much complexity and bells and whistles, but too little in terms of hardiness, reliability, and ease of repairs. I get new trucks haul more, are more comfy, handle well, and have mo powa baby! But, does all that matter in the bigger picture of vehicle ownership? Again, nothing is wrong with the new truck content. The new vehicles are quite capable, but are they worth the $$$ that most people don't have? We (the people) could use more guidance in terms of what old vehicles compare to what we need in our everyday lives. Do we need a 3 year old F150 to get our best chance at reliability and versatility? Or should I buy a mid 90s 2wd Toyota mini truck with a 5 spd manual and an early 00s Honda accord for less than 10 grand? Would that combo do the truck jobs most people need? How much is spent on gas? How big of a truck (really?) to haul a camper? Maybe some stuff kinda like Donut Media's Hi car/low car, but like how happy/expensive is a new truck ownership experience vs. a person who finds affordable options that are efficient, affective, and hit that sweet spot for reliability.
I have sold my newer vehicles over the past year and did some research on what to buy. I now have a 90s toyota and am really digging the experience thus far vs. owning a new vehicle. I have ease of repairs, low parts costs, fuel efficiency, and decent reliability. I've mostly owned only used vehicles, but with the couple of first owner experiences I have had, I can't say that I've been happier or problem free in those experiences. I bet many people feel the same, and would appreciate content that helps define the entirety of vehicle ownership from costs, to happiness in terms of performance/efficiency, and if the compromises vs a new vehicle in terms of bells and whistles/capability really affected them that much?
Buy a Toyota truck and forget the Big Three.
I’m sorry the economy is rough for you and so many others. Thank god this administration has gotten inflation down to 4%. We’re almost there. Coming out of the shutdown, paired with corporate gouging has made it rough for everyone. Best to you.
Economy or not… it’s just too much for something that depreciates….and I went back to the 90s and early 2000s to…. Any make
Platinum f350 tremor is what I’d get if I got a heavy duty off roader. HO powerstroke is wicked.
I just don’t see how this is objectively better at off-roading than the Powerwagon. And the diesel option certainly doesn’t help with off-roading, so that rules out that feature. The Bison up-fitted model has additional parts added on top of the base ZR2 and could easily be added to a Tremor or Powerwagon just the same.
But there is a white elephant in the room though... to my understanding is that the HD ZR2 does not come with a locker in the front end. Where the Ram dose and the Ford has a limited slip front end. Also lets not forget the lifter issues that GM has as well. I'm a huge GM fan, and was exited for a HD ZR2. But after hearing that it doesn't have any type of locker in the front end was a HUGE let down for me. For me, I'm going for the Ford.
You're talking about a totally different engine that has had lifter issues.
Fact check Andre: f350 with HO and 3.55 tows 23000 gooseneck.
ZR2💯