@@Squidgy that's why I've been badgering you pun intended for a Zangoose run It's born with swords dance from birth n a speed stat to boot Zangoose is 4th on my board behind latias (also criminally underrated) groudon n kyogre That means it beat the regi trio latios n even rayquaza Latios lack of defenses makes the Elite four a nightmare while latias can barely get by thanks to its excellent bulk
A huge part of the reason for running Zangoose was to try and push the boundaries of what's capable with my ruleset in Gen 2! We broke the 1:10:00 barrier for the first time in this one, and I reckon I could get another minute or two out of it on a redo!
The follow-up question I have is if there is any mon that could challenge Zangoose, or could we theorycraft one? It has everything going for it with the right Hidden Power: Normal-type (STAB on Return), early Swords Dance, something (Mud-Slap) for the early-game Ghosts, Taunt for Status-inflicters, high Attack, good enough Speed, and a decent XP curve.
Tomorrow's video is Flamigo and that gives Zangoose a very good run for its money! Outside of legendaries, I haven't found one to be quite as strong as Zangoose yet, but I'm sure there will be one hidden in the Dex! My hunch is to find an Ice or Water-type with Calm Mind as an early move.
@Squidgy So a decent Speed, a good attacking stat (Attack or Special), a Boosting move, a strong move that ideally gets STAB and the corresponding held item (early badge boost for moves of the type probably helps but is not necessary), and either a good XP curve or stats to offset that? It is hard to beat Swords Dance, though, unless you plan on importing Nasty Plot.
You've got it spot on! I'll go into a bit more detail, but it could end up being a bit of a word soup! There are a few requirements for a Pokémon to get a very, very fast time. High Speed is imperative. If you're getting hit first, then your time is going to be slower. Depending on experience group, anything from 85 to 100 will be good enough to outspeed Red's faster Pokémon without taking too much damage. High Attack or high Special Attack. Ideally you want one of these stats to be 95 or above. The Pokémon needs least two complimentary moves in your offensive stat. A couple of examples include: - Surf and Ice Beam work well together, as you can use HP Grass or HP Electric to cover the Water-types. - Return and Earthquake are very strong, the only Pokémon you face which isn't hit for neutral damage by one of these moves is Lance's Aerodactyl. A stat boosting move definitely helps. Swords Dance is the best you can get in Gen 2, but for backported Pokémon, Nasty Plot, Bulk Up, and Calm Mind are very good options. Fast and Medium Slow are the three best leveling rates. They give you enough early levels to one-shot most early-game Pokémon, and you should be getting to the League at around about Lv50 with these ones. Erratic is also good if you've got high attack and speed at the start, and will give you a lot of extra levels for the Red fight. I always try to hold a stat boosting item for a move which isn't STAB. The NeverMeltIce works brilliantly on Special Attackers with HP Ice or Ice Beam, and the Pink Bow works for any Physical Attacker who isn't a Normal-type. Combine those together, and you have a recipe for a very quick finishing time!
I really do enjoy these runs. But I guess because I also like JRose so this is natural enjoyment. I also think that...and forgive me for throwing in my two cents...this was far tilted in a run. Learning Swords Dance so early, getting Return STAB so quickly. It was a tornado waiting to happen. Very strong contender for 1st
Zangoose is a VERY broken Pokémon! A challenge like this is less about the battling cabapilities, and more a test of my routing going through the game - the time for Zangoose will nearly always reflect more on the runner than the Pokémon itself!
Squidgy: my overconfidence with will cost me some time 15 seconds later Also squidgy: Im under leveled compared to reds team, haven't got many rare candles so im gonna set up only one swords dance and go barreling into this beef cake of a snorlax. That's a true fortune favoring the bold moment if I ever did see it. Love it.
ya know these runs throw me off (In a funny way) im like "Wow youre going fast" and then I remember "Time at 4x speed" and then go "Oooooh yeaaah he would be at over an hour already"
Sub 1-hour is definitely possible, but it's not probable with my ruleset. Limiting the Rare Candies to the Red fight, and only doing first attempts (or first attempts after several months) means I'm always going to be chasing the clock to get under 1:10:00. I'm sure the right Pokémon and right luck will eventually come around, but my personal best after recording all the videos for this year is still over 1:00:00
The Gen 2 code has been reverse engineered, and it's now possible to add any Pokémon you like into Generation 2. I can't take the credit for this one, though, it was made by @SnowyTotodile!
Wow swords dance, return, and hidden power? What’s the point of using different Pokemon when they all use the same tm moves and not their own natural move set? “How fast can I beat Pokemon using TM moves” fixed your title
Thank you for the suggestion for altering my title. I'm going to stick with the one I've got though, as it more accurately reflects the challenge in the video. So that we're very clear, I will explain the purpose and rules of the challenges for you: The purpose of any particular challenge run is to get the Pokémon across the finish line in the fastest possible time, using all available moves and strategies, barring those that the challenge runner (me in this case) have set out. I have a couple of TM limitations on my challenges: - Double Team is banned as it makes every battle down to RNG, and doesn't provide an enjoyable gameplay. - Rest and Sleep Talk are banned together as this provides an unfair advantage to those Pokémon who are offensively oriented. You can ignore your defensive capabilities if you constantly refill your HP bar. Everything else is fair game. Every Pokémon who can learn TMs has access to Hidden Power and Return, so it is not providing an unfair advantage to any particular species. The fastest time we have is 01:11:23 with Dodrio, the slowest time is 03:49:20 with Shuckle. Both of these challenges had Return and Hidden Power. Dodrio could have beaten the game three times in the time it took Shuckle to defeat the game once. There are plenty of other metrics which come into play which all affect a Pokémon's final time, and the leaderboard reflects this perfectly. I'm unclear as to why Swords Dance is an issue for you in this challenge. It's not a TM in Generation II, and is on Zangoose's level-up learnset in Generation III. We rarely see the move in these challenges, therefore we take full advantage of it when we have access to it. If you don't enjoy the content, you're always free to unsubscribe.
@@Squidgy exactly. Maybe if it wasnt a speedrun you could limit the moveset to only those a species learns naturally, but since the goal is speedrunning, its pointless to challenge yourself like that.
Taunting Umbreon must of felt great after all the Sand Attacks and Confuse Ray's throughout the runs.
Taunting Umbreon made it feel like Christmas had come early!
Beat me to it. I _know_ that Taunt might have been the most satisfying move used in the entire run.
@@Squidgy that's why I've been badgering you pun intended for a Zangoose run
It's born with swords dance from birth n a speed stat to boot
Zangoose is 4th on my board behind latias (also criminally underrated) groudon n kyogre
That means it beat the regi trio latios n even rayquaza
Latios lack of defenses makes the Elite four a nightmare while latias can barely get by thanks to its excellent bulk
We don't have long to wait until the Hoenn boxart legendaries - they're coming out in November!
Every time I think "It can't be faster than that," you prove us wrong. Geez man.
A huge part of the reason for running Zangoose was to try and push the boundaries of what's capable with my ruleset in Gen 2!
We broke the 1:10:00 barrier for the first time in this one, and I reckon I could get another minute or two out of it on a redo!
The follow-up question I have is if there is any mon that could challenge Zangoose, or could we theorycraft one? It has everything going for it with the right Hidden Power: Normal-type (STAB on Return), early Swords Dance, something (Mud-Slap) for the early-game Ghosts, Taunt for Status-inflicters, high Attack, good enough Speed, and a decent XP curve.
Tomorrow's video is Flamigo and that gives Zangoose a very good run for its money!
Outside of legendaries, I haven't found one to be quite as strong as Zangoose yet, but I'm sure there will be one hidden in the Dex! My hunch is to find an Ice or Water-type with Calm Mind as an early move.
@Squidgy So a decent Speed, a good attacking stat (Attack or Special), a Boosting move, a strong move that ideally gets STAB and the corresponding held item (early badge boost for moves of the type probably helps but is not necessary), and either a good XP curve or stats to offset that?
It is hard to beat Swords Dance, though, unless you plan on importing Nasty Plot.
You've got it spot on! I'll go into a bit more detail, but it could end up being a bit of a word soup!
There are a few requirements for a Pokémon to get a very, very fast time.
High Speed is imperative. If you're getting hit first, then your time is going to be slower. Depending on experience group, anything from 85 to 100 will be good enough to outspeed Red's faster Pokémon without taking too much damage.
High Attack or high Special Attack. Ideally you want one of these stats to be 95 or above.
The Pokémon needs least two complimentary moves in your offensive stat. A couple of examples include:
- Surf and Ice Beam work well together, as you can use HP Grass or HP Electric to cover the Water-types.
- Return and Earthquake are very strong, the only Pokémon you face which isn't hit for neutral damage by one of these moves is Lance's Aerodactyl.
A stat boosting move definitely helps. Swords Dance is the best you can get in Gen 2, but for backported Pokémon, Nasty Plot, Bulk Up, and Calm Mind are very good options.
Fast and Medium Slow are the three best leveling rates. They give you enough early levels to one-shot most early-game Pokémon, and you should be getting to the League at around about Lv50 with these ones. Erratic is also good if you've got high attack and speed at the start, and will give you a lot of extra levels for the Red fight.
I always try to hold a stat boosting item for a move which isn't STAB. The NeverMeltIce works brilliantly on Special Attackers with HP Ice or Ice Beam, and the Pink Bow works for any Physical Attacker who isn't a Normal-type.
Combine those together, and you have a recipe for a very quick finishing time!
Zangoose in Gen 2 is absolutely broken especially when you get Swords Dance so early.
I'm really stunned! One of the best I've seen so far! Squidgy has been improving the times very much, I long to see his next Crystal solos!
Looks like a sub 1 hour run is only a matter of time:) great run again
Man I love Zangoose! Its like he was designed specifically to destroy this game!
I really do enjoy these runs. But I guess because I also like JRose so this is natural enjoyment. I also think that...and forgive me for throwing in my two cents...this was far tilted in a run. Learning Swords Dance so early, getting Return STAB so quickly. It was a tornado waiting to happen. Very strong contender for 1st
Zangoose is a VERY broken Pokémon!
A challenge like this is less about the battling cabapilities, and more a test of my routing going through the game - the time for Zangoose will nearly always reflect more on the runner than the Pokémon itself!
I forgot how early Zangoose learns SD in the gens 3 and 4. I think in B2W2 is when they pushed it into the 40s?
Yup! They gave Zangoose a much needed nerf from BW2 onwards!
Swords Dance under Lv10 was a little bit ridiculous!
@@Squidgyidk, I feel it makes the pokemon unique
Squidgy: my overconfidence with will cost me some time
15 seconds later
Also squidgy: Im under leveled compared to reds team, haven't got many rare candles so im gonna set up only one swords dance and go barreling into this beef cake of a snorlax.
That's a true fortune favoring the bold moment if I ever did see it. Love it.
Will the mongoose beat the viper
0:31 You mighta forgot something
Thank you for reminding me! It's fixed now!
Seviper next?
Seviper's coming in a few weeks' time. I'm having to rebuild its backport from scratch, and I want to dedicate some extra time to the sprite work
@@Squidgy will poison tail and poison fang be in the backport
Absolutely! It's going to have the full Gen III learnset :)
omg one of my favorite pokes, this is gonna be good
ya know these runs throw me off (In a funny way) im like "Wow youre going fast" and then I remember "Time at 4x speed" and then go "Oooooh yeaaah he would be at over an hour already"
51m36s at the Hall of Fame!
I watched up to Jasmine. I got to get back to will. I will finish watching this video later.
Thats crazy
TAUNT
❤
Do you think Sub 1 Hour is possible?
Sub 1-hour is definitely possible, but it's not probable with my ruleset.
Limiting the Rare Candies to the Red fight, and only doing first attempts (or first attempts after several months) means I'm always going to be chasing the clock to get under 1:10:00.
I'm sure the right Pokémon and right luck will eventually come around, but my personal best after recording all the videos for this year is still over 1:00:00
Phenomenal time😎
1 hour 6 minutes! 1st place on the other leaderboard!
Cool 👍👍👍👍
How did you pull this off with a Pokemon that doesn’t exist in gen 2 like are you a wizard ? 🤣🤣
The Gen 2 code has been reverse engineered, and it's now possible to add any Pokémon you like into Generation 2.
I can't take the credit for this one, though, it was made by @SnowyTotodile!
Wow swords dance, return, and hidden power? What’s the point of using different Pokemon when they all use the same tm moves and not their own natural move set? “How fast can I beat Pokemon using TM moves” fixed your title
Thank you for the suggestion for altering my title. I'm going to stick with the one I've got though, as it more accurately reflects the challenge in the video.
So that we're very clear, I will explain the purpose and rules of the challenges for you:
The purpose of any particular challenge run is to get the Pokémon across the finish line in the fastest possible time, using all available moves and strategies, barring those that the challenge runner (me in this case) have set out.
I have a couple of TM limitations on my challenges:
- Double Team is banned as it makes every battle down to RNG, and doesn't provide an enjoyable gameplay.
- Rest and Sleep Talk are banned together as this provides an unfair advantage to those Pokémon who are offensively oriented. You can ignore your defensive capabilities if you constantly refill your HP bar.
Everything else is fair game. Every Pokémon who can learn TMs has access to Hidden Power and Return, so it is not providing an unfair advantage to any particular species.
The fastest time we have is 01:11:23 with Dodrio, the slowest time is 03:49:20 with Shuckle. Both of these challenges had Return and Hidden Power. Dodrio could have beaten the game three times in the time it took Shuckle to defeat the game once. There are plenty of other metrics which come into play which all affect a Pokémon's final time, and the leaderboard reflects this perfectly.
I'm unclear as to why Swords Dance is an issue for you in this challenge. It's not a TM in Generation II, and is on Zangoose's level-up learnset in Generation III. We rarely see the move in these challenges, therefore we take full advantage of it when we have access to it.
If you don't enjoy the content, you're always free to unsubscribe.
@@Squidgy must have Hammer arm on his moveset cause he just dropped the hammer.
@@Squidgy exactly. Maybe if it wasnt a speedrun you could limit the moveset to only those a species learns naturally, but since the goal is speedrunning, its pointless to challenge yourself like that.