The biggest problem with putting kids in high risk or high stakes situations, is that they're not fully developed yet. 1) If anything happens with them, they may not develop properly. Especially mentally; childhood experiences are those which you tend to be your foundation for the rest of your life, and thus are very formative 2) Because they're not fully developed yet, they may not be able to make a fully informed decision yet without regretting it later down the line 3) They may not have the ability to cope properly if anything bad happens If all of these objections are accounted for appropriately, I've got nothing against child fighting That said, sports can be so so good for kids
I think this topic is very interesting and i think there would be a nice solution for this. The trainer should speak with the parents of course. He should also speak with teachers of the kid as well as friends of the kid. The parents should do the same with the trainer, with teachers and with friends. Lastly you should need a doctors approval of the physical ability to withstand the stress as well as the possible damage. Last but definitely not least the kids own opinion should be heard by trainer teachers parents and even the doctor. Maybe this would make it too complicated but in my opinion this would be an optimal way of gathering the neccesary information for a decision like this.
My main concern was early concussions/CTE but this rules set has addressed that. And I love that the ref will stop the fight if they aren't intelligently defending a submission. This is probably the best setup I have seen for kids to compete aggressively but as safe as possible. And these two young ladies are BEASTS!
Look at some of the thai guys, most of them started at age 8. But how they spar in muaythai in thailand is different from how they spar in boxing in thailand. In boxing, they fucking go for your head
@@muayboran6111those Thai kids (the ones that aren't forced to drop out because their bodies can't handle it) are still growing up with several health issues and retiring in their early to mid 20s. It's not healthy.
@@leonardomarquesbellini not to mention the national human rights commission put out a study about Thai children, who compete… since these are full contact fights and they fight for money…. Very often being the financial support/breadwinners of their family. Those kids are often so learning impaired. They struggle to complete high school, not just because they are usually from poor families, but it’s in no doubt from brain damage. Thailand has a rich history of this there’s more than enough of a sample size to have studies for this, how many Thai fighters who fight professionally in Thailand have finished university with a masters degree not that many.
@@Wingzero90939 yeah, that's sad to hear, but not really surprising. There's still a lot of people that have trouble accepting sports in which the real objective is causing enough damage to the brain your opponent passes out is dangerous for people's brains. Doubly so for children that are still developing.
My boxing coach started at 8 and captained our Olympics team. Forced to retire in his 20s after failing a brain scan, now in his 40s and noone can understand him talk
Now I'm intrigued, what's your coach name, was he force to retire because of a bad knockout or was accumulated damage. Did he had access to good medical treatment? Because boxes usually fight young to scape poverty and get exploited more than it should.
@@alias0449it's better in that there are a lot more targets in Muay Thai than boxing. That's a double edged sword though my friend. There's also a lot more weapons. A kick to the head can be way more damaging than a punch. I recently was at a local Muay Thai show and saw some get sent to the shadow realm with a round kick to the heads. Careful who your train with.
I would be concerned about parents pushing their children into it, or children doing it to appease someone else. Kids get pushed into different sports all of the time, so not sure "they can do it if they want to" works. And sure, you get hurt in different sports, however, skating or playing football isn't quite the same as being punched in a fight and I feel like that can have some negative side effects mentally. Positive too, but still feels a bit iffy
I agree with your statement except the American football part people get knocked out and is b y far the leading brain damage sport and thats manly accrued in practice not the actual game MMA is safer than boxing
So about 30% of MMA fighter develop brain problems while 70% of foot ball player develop brain problems now I don't know about over all who ends up worse in this aspect they both suck
I mostly agree, true points. But! My worst injuries have been from skateboarding and horses(only time knocked-out). My teeth got horribly chipped in highschool basketball. Boxing and BJJ: Almost Nothing. I sprained my big toe on the mat once. Definitely a sore trachea or stiff neck. Most physical endeavors are more dangerous.
head, bone, joint injuries as a child can have a major impact on how a child develops and the "end result" adult they become. traumatic levels of violence at an early age, only factoring bodily harm, is usually a bad idea, imo.
not only that but also they could be stunting there growth by damaging there growth plates in there body. If they do anything it should be training till maybe 15 to 16 but even then it still would have the same problems but at least an teenager has the ability to understand there situation more than a 9 or 10 year old.
so no football, soccer, baseball, hockey, tennis, swimming, diving, no sports in general at school, also no dancing. because all of those things can cause a head, bone, or joint injury. and have a major impact on how the child develops and the adult they become. football and hockey got to be banned asap all that traumatic levels of violence, hitting people and tackling them. why cant football players just tag the other players to let them know they got them. that way they wont have a chance at getting a head or broken bone injury. we got to ban fighting in hockey, that just makes the child wanna fight at school and in the future as an adult. no playing at the park also since they can fall and hurt them self the same way. both sports have the players wear all that protection that should tell us right their that we need to ban those sports for being to dangerous.
Literally wrestling has 9 year olds cutting weight to go get slammed around on mats. Them kids will be banging their knees up and down a basketball court just for warmup.
100% agree with you on this, Mike. I'm a therapist and I often see kids and adults whose biggest problems, not just in athletic endeavors, but in their lives, period, are rooted in the absurd expectations, demands, and judgments that their that parents impose/d on them. Broken bones heal a lot faster.
This reminds of when my daughter was six years old, my family wanted her to go into beauty pageantry. I asked her how she felt about and she told me that she definitely 100% wanted nothing to do with it. Omg, you would have thought I committed child abuse from how my family freaked out when I told my daughter she didn’t have to go if she didn’t want to. And she never went. I saw that a lot when I worked for the school district, parents making their kids go into competitions when the kids weren’t really into it. Made me sad.
You're a great parent and I hate hearing of situations where kids are pushed into things! I remember my parents always made sure to let me know that I could do whatever I wanted and would let me start doing a sport or compete if I wanted to, but since I never felt like it they never pushed it onto me either and I just was a really active kid in nature, I was always out playing with other kids and did parkour during my teen years. There's definitely a difference between making sure your kids stay active, does not become lazy and potentially unhealthy to just placing them into whatever activity and forcing them to do it without any say at all.
My grandfather was a boxer and started when he was around 8 or so. That made an enormous difference. He was a golden glove and turned professional before the war. I started later and while I felt I had natural talent for it, there was no way I would ever get to the level he reached because all his movements were so intuitive and ingrained. That said, having done all this stuff myself, my main concern is head injuries and brain damage over time. Also I have seen some of random and bad injuries at competitions, which give me pause about young people doing this stuff. Ultimately I think it is up to individuals and their families (been to boxing gyms where you had kids sparring and competing and while it looks rough, many of them were there instead of in gangs and getting shot, so I don't think this is as black and white as people make it sometimes). But when I consider my own nephews and nieces and tend to be a lot more against them getting their heads smashed like I got mine. If parents and kids are going to do this I think they really need to understand what it means and what the risks are
Of it was up to the individuals we would have this as a question. All the pros are the best bc they started as kids and their parent low key abused them now image its fighting.
@@kinginyellow3100 I am sure that kind of abuse does go on. But I know in the case of my grandfather, he got involved in boxing without his parents awareness until he was like 16. And you see plenty of young people get involved in martial arts and boxing because they want to be there. Again, I see this is not always a black and white issue. But I do have concerns about things like head trauma (which is pretty hard not to get if you are in something like boxing). Not sure what the stats are on MMA
I mean there's probably weight classes, so you won't get huge discrepancies also in the younger age ranges the damage they are actually capable of doing with gloves on is minimal. My main concern is actually the potential for exploitation, but that's more to do with the culture around MMA and the like.
I think the rules set for this was impressively geared towards safety. As to when, honestly, it's going to depend on the kid. Some of them have the mentality and composure young, some don't. These two definitely have it. If there was any wavering on the drive to compete like this, if it isn't there 100%, I would wait.
I think mma is too much. Their bodies are still developing, it could create permanent injuries especially CTE. Maybe 15 to 18 for full contact, standard rules.
This fight was well handled but and here is the sizable BUT I do not trust enough promotions, corners and referees to handle this properly. And that is where problems will start to arise when there is someone incompetent or not in the right headspace in one of those roles and then that will put the kids at unnecessary risk
My problem with kids fights is the same as with kids beauty pageant or ballet kids. It's not about the kids, but as Mike says. It's the adult audience. It gives me a weird taste in my mouth. Somethings wrong about adults watching kids fight. Of course there's a danger element in it. But so is there in kids soccer. And again, whose the problem? It's mostly the parents watching and behaving like idiots. 😅
@@definitlynotbenlente7671 I actually agree some ward with your stand. But that said, then again the same could be said with American football, rugby or even horse riding or ballet. Any high impact, high performance sports. Children training martial arts is not that much, an issue for me. It's the high intensity of sports.
I'm a little biased as I've done martials arts, etc since I was 6 (and did sparring/comps from that age too) but I think if the kids want to do it, are being trained properly and its under a ruleset like in this video (no head strikes, different submission rules, shorter rounds, etc) it should be all good. I think I have more issue with it being part of a PPV, having ring girls, commentary, etc - I don't think kids need to start adding that kind of pressure and performativeness to their martial arts journey at that age. It seems exploitative to me (in the same way something like a child beauty pageant is) and I don't think you're mature enough to deal with all that extra stuff just yet - maybe once you're 16, 17 + it could be a thing, but at this young of an age I think it should be more family and friends focused, gyms coming together, etc than a full PPV experience.
I work for a governmental institution supervising schools and teachers and I can confidently say that in most cases regarding children the real problem are parents. The parents are sometimes willing to ruin their children lives for the sake of chasing their own agenda. This whole show is a theatre for adults to show off their children and if pay is in question this will make things even worse. I was a kyokushin practitioner from a young age too, but it is different. There was no money in line and the training had to be softened for the safety purposes. Sadly it is a hard no for me.
I'm all for children (below 5-16) learning and training martial arts. However, the moment hard sparring or actual competition is involved the potential for brain damage and broken bones is too much. Especially for someone who's too young to be making informed and potentially life-shattering decisions for themselves. With brains that underdeveloped and a body that fragile it seems like it's just waiting for tragedy to strike. Imagine a takedown lands at the wrong angle on one of these kids and they break their neck or a limb. Imagine one shoots a takedown as the other one throws a knee and cracks the other one's skull. For adults, these are all risks of competing that they fully understand and are willing to risk for the sport. For children, there's no way they could fully comprehend what they're risking.
I started competing at 14 yr old full contact Karate and American kickboxing at 145 lb division in Tx. For 1994 to 1997 I don't know if they should be doing it that young but that should be up to the termination of their parents and their trainers but they both did a very good job competing with one another and they showed a lot of sportsmanship afterwards I think 14 yr would be better but that's just my opinion
Back in the good old days, kids worked as chimney sweeps and crawled down mine shafts with a stick of dynamite. The little crotch goblins are tougher than they look.
I went to a wushu competition and the sanda matches had kids as young as i think 7 or 8 up to teenagers before it got to the adult level. Honestly it was fine. At the younger ages the genders were mixed up until it got to middle school ages and the kids dont really hurt each other that much especially because they wore chest protectors. I think the problem comes with the spectacle of the fight being added onto the match. Like with the walk outs and cheering for kids to fight. Like the mma environment is cheering you on to beat each other up and it gets a little weird when you unintentionally reinforce that onto a kid's match. Not saying everyone feels this way or percieves it this way, but that may be the issue down the road. This already happens with kids in thailand, albeit to a much more gross degree, what with the gambling and everything on kid's matches (idk if that happens with mma kid fights, i sure hope not) but this is what i would be most worried about. No problem with kids scrapping a little, but you just gotta remember that its kids fighting.
Great video Mike. What a good fight and love the commentary. In my opinion it is often the parents that are the worst offenders. Doesn't matter the sport, they just always seem to have something to say and are always the expert. Just my 2 cents
Agee 💯. I have experience coaching youth FB. The hardest part was trying to coach up kids that clearly didn't want to be there, but their parents where trying to live vicariously through their kids. Was just awful.
If it's handled this well with the ruleset and sportsmanship EVERY TIME and the child approached their parents about wanting to do it? Sure. No way it's more dangerous than football. I know parents and children's sports, though, and there's no way it's going to go down this way every time.
3:52: "If you think a jiu jitsu tournament's ok, I've got bad news for you." Interesting, can you please elaborate on this? Is a kids grappling match as likely or more likely to result in an injury than a boxing, kickboxing or MMA fight?
I would say talk to a neurologist. Any blow to the head regardless of concussion, will cause trauma and damage to the brain. On brains that are developing at an insane rate as kids brains do - you could be robbing them of proper development.
I would have loved to coach my kids through competition, but they never wanted me to, so I didn't. I absolutely gave all kinds of emotional support from ringside.
I grew up in Miami and youth football is crazy competitive. You have elementary-age teams that are practically semi-pro and of course they feed up into the highest quality high school football in the country. As you say there's pluses and minuses to it for all the kids involved. I agree with you the risk is in the obsessive parenting -- but thats true in every sport. I saw way worse parenting playing competitive tennis than I did playing football. All that said, I think I would probably say traditional martial arts until high school, then you can try MMA. I'm not sure there's that much logic in that position, but it seems instinctively right to me.
I am skeptical about this if it's under 15. I think it shouldn't be a full contact fight till 15, but semi contact. But the great thing you said, that applies to any age and any sport, is that kids should compete if they want to and not because of any other reason. And also we should support our kids to do things what they really strive for and not telling them what to do. I am a parent, and I am strict about bad things and bad behavior, but I let my kids choose and try things they like, and only like that they will be able to find them selves in life and be capable grown people.
I think kids MMA is actually the safest option honestly. If the strikes are only neck down, and safety during subs are kept very high. It’s all good. Kids doing kickboxing or boxing with strikes to the head are not good for developing brains. Judo, wrestling and BJJ are all good for kids full out, minus any potential slams to the head on a take down.
That takedown where she just pulls the leg to the point the foot just rolls over her toes, great move. I've seen a bad toe accident in the gym that way by grown men. Someone caught a back leg front kick pulled it back and went for a right hook. The bloke's toe was dislocated and his nail was split. Bit bad in the gym but could see someone using it in MMA. Its like one of those light bulb moments when Roundtree just booted someone in the body.
I would have LOVED to have done this at their age. And from the stories I have heard from so many people over the years, kids fight more than adults anyway. And hey, it's good for us. I like that the ref calls a tap to keep joints from breaking. Broken joints early on can still be really bad later in life. Broken bones will easily heal at their age. Mild concussions can be easily recovered from at their age, but severe brain damage can totally alter their mental facilities forever. Great points Mike. If a kid honestly wants to fight and isn't strongly pressured into it, that's a decision they are capable of making. The only thing I'd do without is having so-called knockout girls at a child's competition...sexualization of anything is just not appropriate for that context...just give em a little more clothes and you're good...nbd.
The no head contact rule changed my mind completely on kids MMA. My big concern with fighting period is CTE and joint damage but American Football scares me more than this did at any moment. Those young ladies KILLED IT I wish my amateur debut looked half that good.
These girls have a thousands times higher fight IQ than me. I'm 33. I don't know if I should be happy or sad. What fighters they are! Btw - I don't have trouble with kids fighting in the ring, but hitting themselves with 4oz gloves in the face is a no from me. Everything else is open game.
Couldn't be any worse than juvenile football. I took ITF TKD as a teenager, and they allowed for moderately hard sparring starting at yellow belt, with gear on. Punches and kicks to the head, and I don't think there was ever a concussion. Worse case was some bloody noses.
Usually, i dont comment on his videos, and usually I'm on his side BUT.... Danm i know that how a kid should be raised, comes from how their parents want. But that TOO Much, here's 3 BIG REASONS: 1 - life time injurys ( i dont even have to elaborate on that one). 2 - making the kid become a circus animal, for the enjoying of adults (thats just awful, and kinda cruel/ inhuman) 3 - your teaching the kid, that, when real danger arrives, for them to fight instead of running and yelling for help. ( Because fighting becomes an habit) Sorry Mike but that opinion about kids should be able to choose ITS JUST WRONG... Kus guess what, they are kids I don't consider myself a sensitive person, but man leave the kids alone.
I'd point out Thai fighters as an example. They start out early in life. But when they reach their mid 20's they already retire mostly mostly because their bodies are already beat up.
@@bradolfpittler2875 Thai boxers also fight _a lot._ But there's few things as generally effective in a fight as grappling and kids can do that safely from a very young age, giving them a great base for whatever they want to add to it.
It´s aproppiate 2 fith or full contact training when they´re 14 years. In grappling with joint locks or chokes at 9 years and without joint locks or jchokes at 3 years
I think combat sports are generally good things and for my kids consider it a life skill like swimming, mathematics or riding a bike. The question for me isn't whether they should train but whether they should compete. You can be a pretty good swimmer without ever stepping onto the diving blocks, you can do well in math class and never do the mathlete competitions. I think competition for combat sports helps with development. It's different going in a tournament vs even hard sparring. Learning to deal with the aggression and adrenaline are almost unique to combat sports, plus you get all the benefits sports in general bring. And I even think it's valuable enough to make kids compete when they don't really want to. Part of parenting is IMO occasionally taking kids outside their comfort zone. Otherwise they'd just watch cartoons all day and never eat broccoli. How much competition they do, how deep into the activity they get, well that's when you have to look at the kid. I like that there's not strikes to the head in kids MMA. I definitely think it's a valuable thing for a kid to learn that pain is something they can work through and survive. Understanding the lines between discomfort, pain, and injury is important. There's still something about this that doesn't feel right though. Maybe it's the spectacle or seeing adults cheering on a kid to beat up another kid. It's like how there's a very different feel when you watch a kids' bjj tournament and parents are encouraging or even shouting techniques vs when someone screams for someone to rip another kids arm off. Wrong kind of energy
I'd recommend starting with youth wrestling. It's well established around the US. Lots of good tournaments and competition. Kids definitely learn a lot from being in wrestling clubs. Plus, if they enjoy it, they can do it in high school or even higher.
I mean, I played full contact football from a young age. There's also hockey, lacrosse, etc. where you're constantly taking hits to the body and to the head at speed. As long as the kids can't punch each other in the head, doesn't seem like it's really any more dangerous than some of those sports, provided you have a competent referee who is looking out for the kids. But doing it in front of a crowd just feels wrong. Too much potential for kids to be exploited/abused.
i think firhas zahabi does it right. he teaches his kids to wrestle, i think without joint locks. they will have a strong base if they decide to compete when they get older.
i think kids should be allowed to do full contact once they turn 18 to me im no expert so i just think their bodies to be somewhat fully developed i guess but at the end of the day i guess its up to them if they want to do it also after the end of the video yea i agree with mike
I fully approve the no striking to the head, but how can you judge how good the grappling is, without the threat of being punched in the face while on the ground? That element is totally removed. If the strikes are limited why not eliminate them all together?
Seems kids that age are to young to make informed decisions. As a result it seems up to adults to protect them against the dangers that they themselves are not aware of. Brain trauma joint locks Blows to the body can all leave lasting damage to a fragile body that is still in development. When they reach adulthood this might stick with them for the rest of their lives. Also on a mental level the experience of someone throwing strikes at you with all their might can be traumatic. Seems their health is more important that their ability to fight or put up impressive performances in matches. A kid can also put on an impressive performance in sports that are less risky and have more safety measures in place to avoid injuries.
I think MMA is very different from Karate tournaments where the technique is more important than hurting other person, things get muddy with kick boxing, wrestling, boxing etc. - proper equipment should be required and children should be inclined with points to show technique superiority and not hurt the other child.
I worry about permanent injuries especially brain damage. Yes the rules seek to mitigate that, but accidents happen. Imagine how you as a parent would feel if your kid would up paralyzed from a spinal injury or had brain damage where they were unable to care for themselves as an adult. Competition can be good as is knowing how to defend oneself. But is the risk worth it as a pre-teen or teen?
Since i keep seeing it pop up over and over again in the comments; no this is not a show that features only childrens fights and the "high production value" isnt strictly for the kids fights; This is a full fledged fight promotion with 98 percent adult fights and 1-2 youth fights per show. The kids fight on the same stage as the adults and the cheers and reactions youre hearing are from a crowd that consist mostly of family, friends and loved ones that came to support their kids; please lighten up and go touch grass
I would say no to head strikes for kids. And we should also invest in protective gear for amateurs. You really want to have as much protection as you can for kids in that age range because they are definitely vulnerable. Edit: I see no head strikes is awesome!! I’m all for this
i think kids should start fighting in the ring\cage at 12 years old bc thats the start of puberty and i know that in high school theyll need the fighting skills im 14 and i have been to a ring fight 2 times i never won but it surely helped me understand the fighting mechanics of my body better and how to respond to some stuff
i would be very concerend about concussions and the permanent damage it can do, plus my nephew started mma as a teen and now has a ruined knee. So since their joints arent fully developed they can easily do permanent damage there. I am not against it for some ideological reasons but for health reasons. Yes other sports can do permanent reason too, and you have to be cautious of that too. The girls do amazing stuff there, no doubt, but because of the same reason i dont let my son play American Football (i am from Austria Europe and played American Football for 8 years miyself) i wouldnt let them do full contact combat sports either.
That was an amazing fight between those 2 young ladies. More young people should try to be involved in things like this instead of silly things that are a waste of time like social media and video games. I wish things like this had been available to me when I was a kid.
Halfway through the video so my fault if I miss it, but, I'm kinda questioning the idea of ring girls in a kids sport. Maybe I have the wrong interpretation of ring girls, but it just, feels off in this context.
I mean, if we offer karate and kickboxing and boxing to kids, and Bjj too, and wrestling is so entrenched it’s offered through most schools athletics programs, there is no reason to not let kids do mma besides just old predjudice against the sport. It’s the assumption that mma is a blood sport that will only end in broken limbs and concussions when that just isn’t the case and it’s no more inherently dangerous than any other combat sport out there, obviously depending on the rule set but same can be said of karate or Bjj etc…
Not having children's fights or at least legit sparring is like not having steroids. It's a good idea as long as you have a way to be 100% sure nobody is doing it.
@hard2hurt I'm not against kids training, but I hope that if they run into any trouble with adults that they make a lot more noise than that. Sometimes louder is better.
It's kinda like child work. Can they do it . Yes. Should they ? Sometimes under very strict rules and regulations. Maybe for me. I am surely against what I saw.
A lot of us took Karate in the 80's and they let us fight at age 5. The instructors would ask you both to only go 60% but every kid went full 100%. I'm not talking about tournaments, I'm talking about just a regular day in the Dojo. You could wind up fighting a kid 3-4 years older than you and 40lbs heavier than you but it was about learning how to defend yourself. A fighter needs to learn how to take a hit, whether it's a punch to the face or a kick to the stomach.
my first thought was, "only if they have head gear." but the no punching to the face, at least on ground and pound makes me feel a lot better. id have to see the rule set to know if id let my kids compete. mine spare with me and my training partner, but i dont let them spar eachother. at least not yet... they need to learn what 50% means before i start letting them punch eachother in the face. (especially my boys!)
@hard2hurt honestly? piece of mind. the impact is still there. It does reduce the risk of breaking noses, knocking teeth out, and cauliflower ear to a point.
one thing missing from this match was the kids ages I would have like to have known there exact ages, to determine if I think they should also fight I never really had an opinion until now until watching this match and I have to agree with Hard2Hurt yeah it's OK some people need this to toughen them up. and that Gator Roll was amazing, that surprised me with such young talent. Dana White set this up I think children's UFC, would make Billions... Great match great support from each fighter no attitudes from the fighters.
Also the Human Brain is not fully developed until 26 Years old for Men and 26-28 for Woman so I would like to see some form of head protective gear I know head punches not allowed but accidents can happen, what if during a take down they hit there head... just a thought.
Am I the only one weirded out by the whole setup of the fight? The smoke, the lights, the cheering crowd, and in the middle of it a child. It somehow reminds me of those kid bodybuilding or kid modeling shows that are completely repulsive. I am not against any form of competitiveness or hard training at a young age. But the pedestal the kids are put on? No, thanks.
the fck? no? i mean. concussions are way more damaging with fast developing brains. they need to give full consent to fighting and i dont think a growing kid knows the full extent of what they are consenting to. i dont think young kids should have the ability to say "sure, i dont mind if i get brain damage" wich is essentially what mma fighters consent to.
btw sparring and training i think is fine. but a kid doesnt think the downsides through like an adult person should. it doesnt matter how good they are. if a kid cant give consent to have secs. they cant give consent to being okay with receiving a concussion
Hard to take you seriously when you say "you dont care if children get concussions". Concussions are known to cause memory and concentration problems, mood swings, personality changes, headache, fatigue, dizziness, insomnia and excessive drowsiness for several weeks to months after. Memory and concentration problems and mood swings etc can be huge issues for kids that grow into larger issues down the road - ignoring that is very irresponsible and unethical as a parent or coach. If you arent thinking about larger implications for the kids life beyond just their performance in one sport, you arent really putting the kids needs first. A kid wanting something isnt enough - kids want all kinds of irresponsible or unhealthy things, its up to adults to show them the proper boundaries.
Might want to watch your video again, because you said it pretty clearly at the end. I replied right after watching you say it at 12:10 in the video @@hard2hurt
@@hard2hurtdude, you really did. To paraphrase "I don't care about that. I don't care about any of that. I don't care if he gets a broken arm, All things being equal I would rather him not get a concussion, but if you lives his life to the fullest and pushes himself to its limits, it's bound to happen." You actually said pretty much that. Within limits people can make whatever choices they want for their children, I don't think there's a reasonable way to structure of society where we can legislate every decision a parent makes. And the study I referenced to you earlier made me question some of my own thoughts about what I would be comfortable with in regards to BJJ and judo and kids. But the evidence is in and done when it comes to the costs of concussions. They are expensive (in non regenerative tissue) and cumulative and considerably more impactfully younger you are. I don't know man, I fought most of my life. But I read what I read and it really makes me think that there's a level of risk that's unacceptable to expose a child to. What rule system makes that manageable and what techniques and modalities of fighting would or wouldn't be most likely to push it beyond the limit, I don't know. But I do know that I definitely would want my child to avoid concussions.
So I actually have a concern because there is no head shots. Houdini was a magician who also had a hobby in working out his abs. He trained his abs to be so well conditioned that part of his show was you could punch his abs as hard as you could and he would be fine. However, after doing this trick to many times, and after receiving a sucker punch from an extremely strong man, it literally ended up being the primary cause of his death. Gutt shots while less dangerous than head shots, can still, be very dangerous. Karate and TKD solves this problem by making it a point system. Is it perfect, no, but there is an adult division where you go harder. My concern is by doing no head shots, the fight now goes on longer, and all that full contact damage, is going Fully on your gutt and your liver. That means if they are doing five-minute rounds, its a full 15 minutes of someone just going to town on your gutt. I do not think that is healthy for a child, its not even healthy for an adult. So for that reason, after seeing this, despite how amazing it is. No i do not support people under the age of 16 being allowed full-contact fights. Especially if we are being honest, the majority of fighters are being introduced to the sport by their parents, and many parents take shit to far. Just review the "worlds youngest body builder" video, and the kid has very negative memories of his father because of working out to much
As long as they are the ones wanting to do it, I think its ok. As long as the fights are ref'd and fair (weight and age classes) it should be pretty safe. Almost certainly safer than playing football.
So this may make me sound like a weenie, and truth be told, I kind of am. Not too proud to admit it, but I feel like that's an important thing to recognize about yourself, before someone has to teach it to you, but I digress. Are there adult matches that restrict face shots? Because when it comes to fight or flight, it's mainly only when I get hit in the face really really hard, that my weenie comes out. And if you thought that was a poor choice of words... it's still funny to me. Grappling was my jam back 10 years ago. I underrate myself as a general rule of thumb, but apparently I had some natural skill at grappling, and picked up moves quickly. My favorite memory was the second time at a new gym. The instructor showed us some offense and defense from being in and under side mount, including a submission for those on top. No clue what it was called, but it involved getting an arm under his head, transfer over him, onto his other side, and grabbing the arm under his head, with your free hand, synch down into a choke. It reminded me of a triangle because I had one of his arms and his head inside the choke. Anywho, we're free grappling towards the end of the day, and very unintentionally I seized the opportunity and locked in that exact choke I'd learned that day, and the other guy wasn't super good or anything, but he'd been there 6 months. I was pretty jazzed about it.
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The biggest problem with putting kids in high risk or high stakes situations, is that they're not fully developed yet.
1) If anything happens with them, they may not develop properly. Especially mentally; childhood experiences are those which you tend to be your foundation for the rest of your life, and thus are very formative
2) Because they're not fully developed yet, they may not be able to make a fully informed decision yet without regretting it later down the line
3) They may not have the ability to cope properly if anything bad happens
If all of these objections are accounted for appropriately, I've got nothing against child fighting
That said, sports can be so so good for kids
I think this topic is very interesting and i think there would be a nice solution for this. The trainer should speak with the parents of course. He should also speak with teachers of the kid as well as friends of the kid. The parents should do the same with the trainer, with teachers and with friends. Lastly you should need a doctors approval of the physical ability to withstand the stress as well as the possible damage. Last but definitely not least the kids own opinion should be heard by trainer teachers parents and even the doctor. Maybe this would make it too complicated but in my opinion this would be an optimal way of gathering the neccesary information for a decision like this.
My main concern was early concussions/CTE but this rules set has addressed that. And I love that the ref will stop the fight if they aren't intelligently defending a submission. This is probably the best setup I have seen for kids to compete aggressively but as safe as possible. And these two young ladies are BEASTS!
Look at some of the thai guys, most of them started at age 8. But how they spar in muaythai in thailand is different from how they spar in boxing in thailand. In boxing, they fucking go for your head
@@muayboran6111those Thai kids (the ones that aren't forced to drop out because their bodies can't handle it) are still growing up with several health issues and retiring in their early to mid 20s. It's not healthy.
@@leonardomarquesbellini not to mention the national human rights commission put out a study about Thai children, who compete… since these are full contact fights and they fight for money…. Very often being the financial support/breadwinners of their family.
Those kids are often so learning impaired. They struggle to complete high school, not just because they are usually from poor families, but it’s in no doubt from brain damage.
Thailand has a rich history of this there’s more than enough of a sample size to have studies for this, how many Thai fighters who fight professionally in Thailand have finished university with a masters degree not that many.
@@Wingzero90939 yeah, that's sad to hear, but not really surprising. There's still a lot of people that have trouble accepting sports in which the real objective is causing enough damage to the brain your opponent passes out is dangerous for people's brains. Doubly so for children that are still developing.
My boxing coach started at 8 and captained our Olympics team. Forced to retire in his 20s after failing a brain scan, now in his 40s and noone can understand him talk
Now I'm intrigued, what's your coach name, was he force to retire because of a bad knockout or was accumulated damage. Did he had access to good medical treatment?
Because boxes usually fight young to scape poverty and get exploited more than it should.
Fuck man boxing is so brutal which is why I stuck with muay thai (idk if it’s better or not)
@@alias0449it's better in that there are a lot more targets in Muay Thai than boxing. That's a double edged sword though my friend. There's also a lot more weapons. A kick to the head can be way more damaging than a punch. I recently was at a local Muay Thai show and saw some get sent to the shadow realm with a round kick to the heads.
Careful who your train with.
@@alias0449 In terms of sports the 2 that aren't worth doing to me because of the sheer amount of brain damage is boxing and football.
@@reyvagabond3344recurrent light damage while growing up is infinitely worse for CTE than getting bad knockouts as an adult.
I would be concerned about parents pushing their children into it, or children doing it to appease someone else. Kids get pushed into different sports all of the time, so not sure "they can do it if they want to" works.
And sure, you get hurt in different sports, however, skating or playing football isn't quite the same as being punched in a fight and I feel like that can have some negative side effects mentally. Positive too, but still feels a bit iffy
Exactly 👍🏻
I agree
I agree with your statement except the American football part people get knocked out and is b y far the leading brain damage sport and thats manly accrued in practice not the actual game MMA is safer than boxing
So about 30% of MMA fighter develop brain problems while 70% of foot ball player develop brain problems now I don't know about over all who ends up worse in this aspect they both suck
I mostly agree, true points. But!
My worst injuries have been from skateboarding and horses(only time knocked-out). My teeth got horribly chipped in highschool basketball.
Boxing and BJJ: Almost Nothing. I sprained my big toe on the mat once. Definitely a sore trachea or stiff neck. Most physical endeavors are more dangerous.
head, bone, joint injuries as a child can have a major impact on how a child develops and the "end result" adult they become. traumatic levels of violence at an early age, only factoring bodily harm, is usually a bad idea, imo.
not only that but also they could be stunting there growth by damaging there growth plates in there body. If they do anything it should be training till maybe 15 to 16 but even then it still would have the same problems but at least an teenager has the ability to understand there situation more than a 9 or 10 year old.
so no football, soccer, baseball, hockey, tennis, swimming, diving, no sports in general at school, also no dancing. because all of those things can cause a head, bone, or joint injury. and have a major impact on how the child develops and the adult they become. football and hockey got to be banned asap all that traumatic levels of violence, hitting people and tackling them. why cant football players just tag the other players to let them know they got them. that way they wont have a chance at getting a head or broken bone injury. we got to ban fighting in hockey, that just makes the child wanna fight at school and in the future as an adult. no playing at the park also since they can fall and hurt them self the same way. both sports have the players wear all that protection that should tell us right their that we need to ban those sports for being to dangerous.
@@SRMNoteonly in mma is the express purpose harming the opponent. Stopping acting the moron before you become one.
Literally wrestling has 9 year olds cutting weight to go get slammed around on mats. Them kids will be banging their knees up and down a basketball court just for warmup.
@@edrichlouw1790no they can do mm but they don't need to spare hared it's bad and training need to be just right
100% agree with you on this, Mike. I'm a therapist and I often see kids and adults whose biggest problems, not just in athletic endeavors, but in their lives, period, are rooted in the absurd expectations, demands, and judgments that their that parents impose/d on them. Broken bones heal a lot faster.
This reminds of when my daughter was six years old, my family wanted her to go into beauty pageantry. I asked her how she felt about and she told me that she definitely 100% wanted nothing to do with it.
Omg, you would have thought I committed child abuse from how my family freaked out when I told my daughter she didn’t have to go if she didn’t want to.
And she never went. I saw that a lot when I worked for the school district, parents making their kids go into competitions when the kids weren’t really into it. Made me sad.
You're a great parent and I hate hearing of situations where kids are pushed into things!
I remember my parents always made sure to let me know that I could do whatever I wanted and would let me start doing a sport or compete if I wanted to, but since I never felt like it they never pushed it onto me either and I just was a really active kid in nature, I was always out playing with other kids and did parkour during my teen years.
There's definitely a difference between making sure your kids stay active, does not become lazy and potentially unhealthy to just placing them into whatever activity and forcing them to do it without any say at all.
My grandfather was a boxer and started when he was around 8 or so. That made an enormous difference. He was a golden glove and turned professional before the war. I started later and while I felt I had natural talent for it, there was no way I would ever get to the level he reached because all his movements were so intuitive and ingrained. That said, having done all this stuff myself, my main concern is head injuries and brain damage over time. Also I have seen some of random and bad injuries at competitions, which give me pause about young people doing this stuff. Ultimately I think it is up to individuals and their families (been to boxing gyms where you had kids sparring and competing and while it looks rough, many of them were there instead of in gangs and getting shot, so I don't think this is as black and white as people make it sometimes). But when I consider my own nephews and nieces and tend to be a lot more against them getting their heads smashed like I got mine. If parents and kids are going to do this I think they really need to understand what it means and what the risks are
Rocky. Wilder.
Of it was up to the individuals we would have this as a question. All the pros are the best bc they started as kids and their parent low key abused them now image its fighting.
@@kinginyellow3100 I am sure that kind of abuse does go on. But I know in the case of my grandfather, he got involved in boxing without his parents awareness until he was like 16. And you see plenty of young people get involved in martial arts and boxing because they want to be there. Again, I see this is not always a black and white issue. But I do have concerns about things like head trauma (which is pretty hard not to get if you are in something like boxing). Not sure what the stats are on MMA
I mean there's probably weight classes, so you won't get huge discrepancies also in the younger age ranges the damage they are actually capable of doing with gloves on is minimal. My main concern is actually the potential for exploitation, but that's more to do with the culture around MMA and the like.
I think the rules set for this was impressively geared towards safety. As to when, honestly, it's going to depend on the kid. Some of them have the mentality and composure young, some don't. These two definitely have it. If there was any wavering on the drive to compete like this, if it isn't there 100%, I would wait.
I think mma is too much. Their bodies are still developing, it could create permanent injuries especially CTE. Maybe 15 to 18 for full contact, standard rules.
This fight was well handled but and here is the sizable BUT I do not trust enough promotions, corners and referees to handle this properly. And that is where problems will start to arise when there is someone incompetent or not in the right headspace in one of those roles and then that will put the kids at unnecessary risk
My problem with kids fights is the same as with kids beauty pageant or ballet kids. It's not about the kids, but as Mike says. It's the adult audience. It gives me a weird taste in my mouth. Somethings wrong about adults watching kids fight.
Of course there's a danger element in it. But so is there in kids soccer. And again, whose the problem? It's mostly the parents watching and behaving like idiots. 😅
I do not think children should be competing at this level in martial arts the level of violence is a bit to high for my taste
@@definitlynotbenlente7671 I actually agree some ward with your stand. But that said, then again the same could be said with American football, rugby or even horse riding or ballet. Any high impact, high performance sports.
Children training martial arts is not that much, an issue for me. It's the high intensity of sports.
@@definitlynotbenlente7671 so it returns to my view, on how adults structure the sport kids participates in, for me.
I'm a little biased as I've done martials arts, etc since I was 6 (and did sparring/comps from that age too) but I think if the kids want to do it, are being trained properly and its under a ruleset like in this video (no head strikes, different submission rules, shorter rounds, etc) it should be all good.
I think I have more issue with it being part of a PPV, having ring girls, commentary, etc - I don't think kids need to start adding that kind of pressure and performativeness to their martial arts journey at that age. It seems exploitative to me (in the same way something like a child beauty pageant is) and I don't think you're mature enough to deal with all that extra stuff just yet - maybe once you're 16, 17 + it could be a thing, but at this young of an age I think it should be more family and friends focused, gyms coming together, etc than a full PPV experience.
That looked better than like, 80% of the heavyweight fights I've watched.
I work for a governmental institution supervising schools and teachers and I can confidently say that in most cases regarding children the real problem are parents. The parents are sometimes willing to ruin their children lives for the sake of chasing their own agenda. This whole show is a theatre for adults to show off their children and if pay is in question this will make things even worse.
I was a kyokushin practitioner from a young age too, but it is different. There was no money in line and the training had to be softened for the safety purposes.
Sadly it is a hard no for me.
I'm all for children (below 5-16) learning and training martial arts. However, the moment hard sparring or actual competition is involved the potential for brain damage and broken bones is too much. Especially for someone who's too young to be making informed and potentially life-shattering decisions for themselves.
With brains that underdeveloped and a body that fragile it seems like it's just waiting for tragedy to strike. Imagine a takedown lands at the wrong angle on one of these kids and they break their neck or a limb. Imagine one shoots a takedown as the other one throws a knee and cracks the other one's skull.
For adults, these are all risks of competing that they fully understand and are willing to risk for the sport. For children, there's no way they could fully comprehend what they're risking.
I live in Thailand, kids fight here, little kids grow up fighting in the ring....occasionally they die as well
Those girls are going to be dangerous when they're older if they keep going
I started competing at 14 yr old full contact Karate and American kickboxing at 145 lb division in Tx. For 1994 to 1997 I don't know if they should be doing it that young but that should be up to the termination of their parents and their trainers but they both did a very good job competing with one another and they showed a lot of sportsmanship afterwards I think 14 yr would be better but that's just my opinion
Back in the good old days, kids worked as chimney sweeps and crawled down mine shafts with a stick of dynamite. The little crotch goblins are tougher than they look.
That was awesome! The composure these girls have is ridiculously impressive.
I would modify the adult rules, increase protective gear and forbid pay... so parents don't exploit their children.
Wow, sad. The decline of society.
I went to a wushu competition and the sanda matches had kids as young as i think 7 or 8 up to teenagers before it got to the adult level.
Honestly it was fine. At the younger ages the genders were mixed up until it got to middle school ages and the kids dont really hurt each other that much especially because they wore chest protectors.
I think the problem comes with the spectacle of the fight being added onto the match. Like with the walk outs and cheering for kids to fight. Like the mma environment is cheering you on to beat each other up and it gets a little weird when you unintentionally reinforce that onto a kid's match. Not saying everyone feels this way or percieves it this way, but that may be the issue down the road.
This already happens with kids in thailand, albeit to a much more gross degree, what with the gambling and everything on kid's matches (idk if that happens with mma kid fights, i sure hope not) but this is what i would be most worried about. No problem with kids scrapping a little, but you just gotta remember that its kids fighting.
The next generation of fighting is gunna be nuts
I'm a casual fan and I know jack shit about fighting but seeing those two girls go at it is just amazing.
I don't know know, Mike. It may be in risk of child exploitation. Like in Thai Boxing, I've heard about that risk since early 2010s.
Better cardio and ring awareness than i have as a grown ass man
Im worried about any sport getting in they of them going to school and being children.
Great video Mike. What a good fight and love the commentary. In my opinion it is often the parents that are the worst offenders. Doesn't matter the sport, they just always seem to have something to say and are always the expert. Just my 2 cents
Those kids are braver than me stepping in the ring. Legends. I hope they have great careers ahead of them
Props to the kids and to the coaches!
legit more skill than you see in some WMMA UFC fights
Agee 💯. I have experience coaching youth FB. The hardest part was trying to coach up kids that clearly didn't want to be there, but their parents where trying to live vicariously through their kids. Was just awful.
If it's handled this well with the ruleset and sportsmanship EVERY TIME and the child approached their parents about wanting to do it? Sure. No way it's more dangerous than football. I know parents and children's sports, though, and there's no way it's going to go down this way every time.
3:52: "If you think a jiu jitsu tournament's ok, I've got bad news for you." Interesting, can you please elaborate on this? Is a kids grappling match as likely or more likely to result in an injury than a boxing, kickboxing or MMA fight?
I would say talk to a neurologist.
Any blow to the head regardless of concussion, will cause trauma and damage to the brain. On brains that are developing at an insane rate as kids brains do - you could be robbing them of proper development.
Oh man, those girls are gonna be DANGEROUS by the time they hit 20.
As a parent of both girls and a boy. It makes me uncomfortable.
I would have loved to coach my kids through competition, but they never wanted me to, so I didn't. I absolutely gave all kinds of emotional support from ringside.
Training is fine, sparring is fine but actually fighting?
I do not think minors should be fighting wait till they are 18 train and sparring is fine
I think what matters most is the the fighters need to understand and accept the risks. If they do, then I think it's okay.
With no hits to the head, yeah I agree with you. I'm not too keen on children getting hit in the head repeatedly so without that it seems pretty fine
I grew up in Miami and youth football is crazy competitive. You have elementary-age teams that are practically semi-pro and of course they feed up into the highest quality high school football in the country. As you say there's pluses and minuses to it for all the kids involved. I agree with you the risk is in the obsessive parenting -- but thats true in every sport. I saw way worse parenting playing competitive tennis than I did playing football.
All that said, I think I would probably say traditional martial arts until high school, then you can try MMA. I'm not sure there's that much logic in that position, but it seems instinctively right to me.
No
Awesome. Find your passion and go for it. Nothing else matters. Wish I learned that at a younger age.
As with most things kids related, my main concerned is the parents.
I am skeptical about this if it's under 15. I think it shouldn't be a full contact fight till 15, but semi contact. But the great thing you said, that applies to any age and any sport, is that kids should compete if they want to and not because of any other reason. And also we should support our kids to do things what they really strive for and not telling them what to do. I am a parent, and I am strict about bad things and bad behavior, but I let my kids choose and try things they like, and only like that they will be able to find them selves in life and be capable grown people.
I think kids MMA is actually the safest option honestly. If the strikes are only neck down, and safety during subs are kept very high. It’s all good. Kids doing kickboxing or boxing with strikes to the head are not good for developing brains. Judo, wrestling and BJJ are all good for kids full out, minus any potential slams to the head on a take down.
First gut reaction is not to let kids fight in MMA, but then, kids fight in the street anyways. This is probably WAY safer.
The generations are gonna be alot tougher in general I swear.
Good question
That takedown where she just pulls the leg to the point the foot just rolls over her toes, great move. I've seen a bad toe accident in the gym that way by grown men. Someone caught a back leg front kick pulled it back and went for a right hook. The bloke's toe was dislocated and his nail was split. Bit bad in the gym but could see someone using it in MMA. Its like one of those light bulb moments when Roundtree just booted someone in the body.
I brought the exact question up to my wife after watching this a week or so back.
I would have LOVED to have done this at their age. And from the stories I have heard from so many people over the years, kids fight more than adults anyway. And hey, it's good for us.
I like that the ref calls a tap to keep joints from breaking. Broken joints early on can still be really bad later in life. Broken bones will easily heal at their age. Mild concussions can be easily recovered from at their age, but severe brain damage can totally alter their mental facilities forever.
Great points Mike. If a kid honestly wants to fight and isn't strongly pressured into it, that's a decision they are capable of making.
The only thing I'd do without is having so-called knockout girls at a child's competition...sexualization of anything is just not appropriate for that context...just give em a little more clothes and you're good...nbd.
The no head contact rule changed my mind completely on kids MMA. My big concern with fighting period is CTE and joint damage but American Football scares me more than this did at any moment. Those young ladies KILLED IT I wish my amateur debut looked half that good.
These girls have a thousands times higher fight IQ than me. I'm 33. I don't know if I should be happy or sad. What fighters they are! Btw - I don't have trouble with kids fighting in the ring, but hitting themselves with 4oz gloves in the face is a no from me. Everything else is open game.
Couldn't be any worse than juvenile football. I took ITF TKD as a teenager, and they allowed for moderately hard sparring starting at yellow belt, with gear on. Punches and kicks to the head, and I don't think there was ever a concussion. Worse case was some bloody noses.
Usually, i dont comment on his videos, and usually I'm on his side BUT....
Danm i know that how a kid should be raised, comes from how their parents want.
But that TOO Much, here's 3 BIG REASONS:
1 - life time injurys ( i dont even have to elaborate on that one).
2 - making the kid become a circus animal, for the enjoying of adults (thats just awful, and kinda cruel/ inhuman)
3 - your teaching the kid, that, when real danger arrives, for them to fight instead of running and yelling for help.
( Because fighting becomes an habit)
Sorry Mike but that opinion about kids should be able to choose ITS JUST WRONG...
Kus guess what, they are kids
I don't consider myself a sensitive person, but man leave the kids alone.
Ellie trains at our gym. She’s an amazing young athlete! Her and my son spar together all the time. Iron sharpens iron.
the question is, how much does starting early actually impact your later in life skills as a fighter
I'd point out Thai fighters as an example. They start out early in life. But when they reach their mid 20's they already retire mostly mostly because their bodies are already beat up.
@@bradolfpittler2875 yeah but thai fighters do it so early because if they aren’t pros early, the family is too poor
@@bradolfpittler2875 Thai boxers also fight _a lot._
But there's few things as generally effective in a fight as grappling and kids can do that safely from a very young age, giving them a great base for whatever they want to add to it.
It´s aproppiate 2 fith or full contact training when they´re 14 years. In grappling with joint locks or chokes at 9 years and without joint locks or jchokes at 3 years
I think combat sports are generally good things and for my kids consider it a life skill like swimming, mathematics or riding a bike. The question for me isn't whether they should train but whether they should compete. You can be a pretty good swimmer without ever stepping onto the diving blocks, you can do well in math class and never do the mathlete competitions. I think competition for combat sports helps with development. It's different going in a tournament vs even hard sparring. Learning to deal with the aggression and adrenaline are almost unique to combat sports, plus you get all the benefits sports in general bring. And I even think it's valuable enough to make kids compete when they don't really want to. Part of parenting is IMO occasionally taking kids outside their comfort zone. Otherwise they'd just watch cartoons all day and never eat broccoli.
How much competition they do, how deep into the activity they get, well that's when you have to look at the kid. I like that there's not strikes to the head in kids MMA. I definitely think it's a valuable thing for a kid to learn that pain is something they can work through and survive. Understanding the lines between discomfort, pain, and injury is important. There's still something about this that doesn't feel right though. Maybe it's the spectacle or seeing adults cheering on a kid to beat up another kid. It's like how there's a very different feel when you watch a kids' bjj tournament and parents are encouraging or even shouting techniques vs when someone screams for someone to rip another kids arm off. Wrong kind of energy
I'd recommend starting with youth wrestling. It's well established around the US. Lots of good tournaments and competition. Kids definitely learn a lot from being in wrestling clubs. Plus, if they enjoy it, they can do it in high school or even higher.
I mean, I played full contact football from a young age. There's also hockey, lacrosse, etc. where you're constantly taking hits to the body and to the head at speed. As long as the kids can't punch each other in the head, doesn't seem like it's really any more dangerous than some of those sports, provided you have a competent referee who is looking out for the kids. But doing it in front of a crowd just feels wrong. Too much potential for kids to be exploited/abused.
This is very impressive
i think firhas zahabi does it right. he teaches his kids to wrestle, i think without joint locks. they will have a strong base if they decide to compete when they get older.
i think kids should be allowed to do full contact once they turn 18 to me im no expert so i just think their bodies to be somewhat fully developed i guess but at the end of the day i guess its up to them if they want to do it also after the end of the video yea i agree with mike
Wow this was amazing, these girls showed some serious fight knowledge and composure which is super impressive for their age. 👍👍
Amazing fight all around, so much good technique and poise. But what about kids at BJJ tournaments?
Why are they better than a lot of "top" female fighters in the UFC?
I fully approve the no striking to the head, but how can you judge how good the grappling is, without the threat of being punched in the face while on the ground? That element is totally removed. If the strikes are limited why not eliminate them all together?
Seems kids that age are to young to make informed decisions.
As a result it seems up to adults to protect them against the dangers that they themselves are not aware of.
Brain trauma
joint locks
Blows to the body can all leave lasting damage to a fragile body that is still in development.
When they reach adulthood this might stick with them for the rest of their lives.
Also on a mental level the experience of someone throwing strikes at you with all their might can be traumatic.
Seems their health is more important that their ability to fight or put up impressive performances in matches.
A kid can also put on an impressive performance in sports that are less risky and have more safety measures in place to avoid injuries.
I think MMA is very different from Karate tournaments where the technique is more important than hurting other person, things get muddy with kick boxing, wrestling, boxing etc. - proper equipment should be required and children should be inclined with points to show technique superiority and not hurt the other child.
I worry about permanent injuries especially brain damage. Yes the rules seek to mitigate that, but accidents happen. Imagine how you as a parent would feel if your kid would up paralyzed from a spinal injury or had brain damage where they were unable to care for themselves as an adult. Competition can be good as is knowing how to defend oneself. But is the risk worth it as a pre-teen or teen?
[This is one of Mike's best videos yet. Should children compete in combat sports? As a Wise Man once said, "it depends."]
Since i keep seeing it pop up over and over again in the comments; no this is not a show that features only childrens fights and the "high production value" isnt strictly for the kids fights; This is a full fledged fight promotion with 98 percent adult fights and 1-2 youth fights per show. The kids fight on the same stage as the adults and the cheers and reactions youre hearing are from a crowd that consist mostly of family, friends and loved ones that came to support their kids; please lighten up and go touch grass
I would say no to head strikes for kids. And we should also invest in protective gear for amateurs. You really want to have as much protection as you can for kids in that age range because they are definitely vulnerable.
Edit: I see no head strikes is awesome!! I’m all for this
i think kids should start fighting in the ring\cage at 12 years old bc thats the start of puberty and i know that in high school theyll need the fighting skills im 14 and i have been to a ring fight 2 times i never won but it surely helped me understand the fighting mechanics of my body better and how to respond to some stuff
i would be very concerend about concussions and the permanent damage it can do, plus my nephew started mma as a teen and now has a ruined knee. So since their joints arent fully developed they can easily do permanent damage there. I am not against it for some ideological reasons but for health reasons. Yes other sports can do permanent reason too, and you have to be cautious of that too. The girls do amazing stuff there, no doubt, but because of the same reason i dont let my son play American Football (i am from Austria Europe and played American Football for 8 years miyself) i wouldnt let them do full contact combat sports either.
That was an amazing fight between those 2 young ladies. More young people should try to be involved in things like this instead of silly things that are a waste of time like social media and video games. I wish things like this had been available to me when I was a kid.
Halfway through the video so my fault if I miss it, but, I'm kinda questioning the idea of ring girls in a kids sport. Maybe I have the wrong interpretation of ring girls, but it just, feels off in this context.
I mean, if we offer karate and kickboxing and boxing to kids, and Bjj too, and wrestling is so entrenched it’s offered through most schools athletics programs, there is no reason to not let kids do mma besides just old predjudice against the sport. It’s the assumption that mma is a blood sport that will only end in broken limbs and concussions when that just isn’t the case and it’s no more inherently dangerous than any other combat sport out there, obviously depending on the rule set but same can be said of karate or Bjj etc…
No absolutely not.
Not having children's fights or at least legit sparring is like not having steroids. It's a good idea as long as you have a way to be 100% sure nobody is doing it.
@hard2hurt I'm not against kids training, but I hope that if they run into any trouble with adults that they make a lot more noise than that. Sometimes louder is better.
It's kinda like child work. Can they do it . Yes. Should they ? Sometimes under very strict rules and regulations. Maybe for me. I am surely against what I saw.
A lot of us took Karate in the 80's and they let us fight at age 5. The instructors would ask you both to only go 60% but every kid went full 100%. I'm not talking about tournaments, I'm talking about just a regular day in the Dojo. You could wind up fighting a kid 3-4 years older than you and 40lbs heavier than you but it was about learning how to defend yourself. A fighter needs to learn how to take a hit, whether it's a punch to the face or a kick to the stomach.
What is the cost vs what is the reward to the mind body and spirit is the real question?
my first thought was, "only if they have head gear." but the no punching to the face, at least on ground and pound makes me feel a lot better. id have to see the rule set to know if id let my kids compete. mine spare with me and my training partner, but i dont let them spar eachother. at least not yet... they need to learn what 50% means before i start letting them punch eachother in the face. (especially my boys!)
What does headgear do?
Head gear only protects against things like cuts, swelling and scrapes but does little for concussions
@hard2hurt honestly? piece of mind. the impact is still there. It does reduce the risk of breaking noses, knocking teeth out, and cauliflower ear to a point.
Love u bro your vid with jesse was the game....
I take it back. This rule set seems good to me. Could almost make it a point style system for completing moves and takedowns etc.
So what’s the story about a kids BJJ tournament you teased?
one thing missing from this match was the kids ages I would have like to have known there exact ages, to determine if I think they should also fight I never really had an opinion until now until watching this match and I have to agree with Hard2Hurt yeah it's OK some people need this to toughen them up. and that Gator Roll was amazing, that surprised me with such young talent. Dana White set this up I think children's UFC, would make Billions... Great match great support from each fighter no attitudes from the fighters.
Also the Human Brain is not fully developed until 26 Years old for Men and 26-28 for Woman so I would like to see some form of head protective gear I know head punches not allowed but accidents can happen, what if during a take down they hit there head... just a thought.
Am I the only one weirded out by the whole setup of the fight? The smoke, the lights, the cheering crowd, and in the middle of it a child. It somehow reminds me of those kid bodybuilding or kid modeling shows that are completely repulsive.
I am not against any form of competitiveness or hard training at a young age. But the pedestal the kids are put on? No, thanks.
the fck? no? i mean. concussions are way more damaging with fast developing brains. they need to give full consent to fighting and i dont think a growing kid knows the full extent of what they are consenting to. i dont think young kids should have the ability to say "sure, i dont mind if i get brain damage" wich is essentially what mma fighters consent to.
btw sparring and training i think is fine. but a kid doesnt think the downsides through like an adult person should. it doesnt matter how good they are. if a kid cant give consent to have secs. they cant give consent to being okay with receiving a concussion
Hard to take you seriously when you say "you dont care if children get concussions". Concussions are known to cause memory and concentration problems, mood swings, personality changes, headache, fatigue, dizziness, insomnia and excessive drowsiness for several weeks to months after. Memory and concentration problems and mood swings etc can be huge issues for kids that grow into larger issues down the road - ignoring that is very irresponsible and unethical as a parent or coach.
If you arent thinking about larger implications for the kids life beyond just their performance in one sport, you arent really putting the kids needs first. A kid wanting something isnt enough - kids want all kinds of irresponsible or unhealthy things, its up to adults to show them the proper boundaries.
Good thing I didn't say that, then.
Might want to watch your video again, because you said it pretty clearly at the end. I replied right after watching you say it at 12:10 in the video @@hard2hurt
@@hard2hurtdude, you really did. To paraphrase "I don't care about that. I don't care about any of that. I don't care if he gets a broken arm, All things being equal I would rather him not get a concussion, but if you lives his life to the fullest and pushes himself to its limits, it's bound to happen."
You actually said pretty much that.
Within limits people can make whatever choices they want for their children, I don't think there's a reasonable way to structure of society where we can legislate every decision a parent makes.
And the study I referenced to you earlier made me question some of my own thoughts about what I would be comfortable with in regards to BJJ and judo and kids.
But the evidence is in and done when it comes to the costs of concussions. They are expensive (in non regenerative tissue) and cumulative and considerably more impactfully younger you are.
I don't know man, I fought most of my life. But I read what I read and it really makes me think that there's a level of risk that's unacceptable to expose a child to. What rule system makes that manageable and what techniques and modalities of fighting would or wouldn't be most likely to push it beyond the limit, I don't know.
But I do know that I definitely would want my child to avoid concussions.
What are the risks of kids exchanging full power body shots (punches, kicks, knees) for multiple rounds while still developing?
So I actually have a concern because there is no head shots. Houdini was a magician who also had a hobby in working out his abs. He trained his abs to be so well conditioned that part of his show was you could punch his abs as hard as you could and he would be fine. However, after doing this trick to many times, and after receiving a sucker punch from an extremely strong man, it literally ended up being the primary cause of his death.
Gutt shots while less dangerous than head shots, can still, be very dangerous.
Karate and TKD solves this problem by making it a point system. Is it perfect, no, but there is an adult division where you go harder.
My concern is by doing no head shots, the fight now goes on longer, and all that full contact damage, is going Fully on your gutt and your liver. That means if they are doing five-minute rounds, its a full 15 minutes of someone just going to town on your gutt.
I do not think that is healthy for a child, its not even healthy for an adult.
So for that reason, after seeing this, despite how amazing it is. No i do not support people under the age of 16 being allowed full-contact fights. Especially if we are being honest, the majority of fighters are being introduced to the sport by their parents, and many parents take shit to far. Just review the "worlds youngest body builder" video, and the kid has very negative memories of his father because of working out to much
As long as they are the ones wanting to do it, I think its ok. As long as the fights are ref'd and fair (weight and age classes) it should be pretty safe. Almost certainly safer than playing football.
So this may make me sound like a weenie, and truth be told, I kind of am. Not too proud to admit it, but I feel like that's an important thing to recognize about yourself, before someone has to teach it to you, but I digress. Are there adult matches that restrict face shots? Because when it comes to fight or flight, it's mainly only when I get hit in the face really really hard, that my weenie comes out. And if you thought that was a poor choice of words... it's still funny to me.
Grappling was my jam back 10 years ago. I underrate myself as a general rule of thumb, but apparently I had some natural skill at grappling, and picked up moves quickly. My favorite memory was the second time at a new gym. The instructor showed us some offense and defense from being in and under side mount, including a submission for those on top. No clue what it was called, but it involved getting an arm under his head, transfer over him, onto his other side, and grabbing the arm under his head, with your free hand, synch down into a choke. It reminded me of a triangle because I had one of his arms and his head inside the choke. Anywho, we're free grappling towards the end of the day, and very unintentionally I seized the opportunity and locked in that exact choke I'd learned that day, and the other guy wasn't super good or anything, but he'd been there 6 months. I was pretty jazzed about it.