What's funny is that the plane Scrapman was building only worked irl with an onboard computer making adjustments all the time so it makes sense that Scrapman had a hard time controlling it
Funfact: The SU-47 Berkut needed a on-board computer to be able to fly, as it was too unstable for only a human Pilot. No wonder Scrapman had issues flying it.
Yeah pretty much every jet fighter built in the last 40+ years relies on an onboard computer to fly, they're built intentionally unstable to increase maneuverability in combat, and it takes a computer to keep them stable since a human cant make the million tiny adjustments a second the plane requires just to fly straight and level. There were a few that were so unstable they required a separate flight computer for each axis. So one handled pitch, one handled roll, and one handled yaw.
@@outkast937those are some really old computers though, nowadays you can probably do all the calculations with a smartphone, but the point still stands that the whole point of a forward wing is to reduce stability, and lack of stability means the plane kinda 'wants' to turn, making the turns extremely sharp. But that unstable equilibrium also makes it completely uncontrollable without computers. It's like theoretically you can balance a playing card on its edge, but if someone breathes from 10m away, the card already will fall over. Minimal input causes maximum effect.
Scrapman really went for the most difficult jet to build. Functionally the Su-47 Berkut wasn't an easy plane to build, it needed lot's of onboard computing and flight assistance to be stable in the air. And then Scrapman is like "Yeah, this is the build I'll put maximum Form into."
could be fun to have like a three-way build battle where you build the vehicle, but you then randomly draw who gets what vehicle, so you want to both make it bad for the other people to use, but you also want to make it good enough for yourself to be able to win if you draw your own vehicle
Iirc they did something similar in Scrap Mechanic a while back - I think it was multi-stage, where each player had to do one race with every vehicle, including their own.
Your function over form design mindset is actually quite fitting for a name like ScrapMan. Taking scrap to build functional machines, with form taking second priority as long as it works as intended.
Scrap Man started at a disadvantage by being put out of his comfort zone for building, then he immediately cranked his own difficulty up to 11 by picking an aircraft that can barely fly IRL because it is so unstable. The whole time I watched you trying to test fly, I was was thinking "Yup, that's an issue they had with the real version too 😆"
Yeah the plane was designed to be unstable, minimising stability maximises agility. But without computers it's just unflyable. The idea was to create an unstable equilibrium, like a ball at the top of the hill, no matter where you go the forces on it will want it to move even more in that direction. Incredibly agile, but also incredibly unstable. Stable planes, like passenger planes, are the other way around, without any input at all it will just keep flying straight for quite a while, you'd specifically have to overcome drag to do anything other than go straight. They are like a ball in a valley, no matter where you force the ball too, it wants to return to its original position.
I like how over time these 2 recognised their building styles and are finding ways to make it more entertaining. Very interesting. Also, it might be fun to do a part 2 where they up the block limit by a hundred or 2.
So a tip for choosing the right shapes, just don't worry about it when you first place them. Whichever you found first, just place that, and if there is a better one, you will find it later while working on other parts of the build. Just don't stay too long on a single part.
I think a lot of the instability came from the backwards tail fins on the side of the wings. The tail fins were trying to point into the wind, and in doing that they flip the plane about
I always like the generation videos because it gives you guys the chance to improve on the errors of the last challenge. It would be cool to see a video where you build attack helicopters, and fly them in a congested area to the death
Forward-sweep wing planes were unstable in real life and they had 2 purposes: making the plane unstable and delaying tip stalling. If the plane is more unstable, it turns better. The problem is that the stabilisation systems were not very reliable at the time. Tip stalling is when the tips of the wing lose airflow. With regular swept wings the tip stalls first, but with forward-swept wings start to stall at the root. Also, the wings in the front are called canards and they are responsable for pitch and roll. (Very nerdy stuff 🤓🤓🤓)
Video idea: Full complexity dog fights. No rules, just above 650 blocks! Maybe even multiple stages in which the different weapons are allowed only, but they must be on the built in the beginning and only be toggled
If Yzuei were to take your Form Build into his Garage and see what he could do with it, I wonder what he'd do with it...? Meanwhile, you could take Yzuei's Function Build into your Garage, you could just sit down and munch Popcorn cause no changes are needed. :P For what it's worth, You got your behind kicked so hard because ya are on the RIGHT side of the Fence on which is more important. ;) ... meanwhile, I haven't yet ever been able to make even ONE Plane or Jet i'm happy with. :(
Scrapman, next time you build in teams building 2 vehicles, build them together with your teammate, this way they will end up more complex and the battles will be more interesting
You should do a challenge with Yzuei and the other’s where you have to use B-17’s which are two or three seater, one Pilot,One gunner and one person who bomb’s stuff, and the Aim of the challenge is to destroy the most Targets without the other team destroying the B-17(Eg. Fighter jet’s) I know you sorta have done this before, just without the Target bombing, I would love to see you try this😁
what does it say about how well they understand each others building styles when they were able to perfectly mimic each others building style since while Yuzei's "plane" could fly with half of it missing scrap's stopped functioning as soon as any sort of control surface is taken off even if it's just one tail fin which is the complete opposite of their normal dynamic which was the whole challenge this time
Great video! I've got an idea for the next one. You and Yzuei should combine your airplanes. Example: You build a pure function plane, and he builds almost pure form plane, then you combine them, and fight JB and Patches, that have built their planes the same way. And you could either have one gunner, one pilot, or have two planes for each team. Maybe I have not explained this the best way, but I hope you understand
So basically you take the best from the form and the function builds to make the best aircraft with both form and function. using their two building styles and build ideas. So for this you would take the form from Scrapman's build and the function from Yzuei keeping the jet style, fixing the balance issues, adding the weapons, some of the big thrusters and the servos. Something like that?
I think it would be cool if you did a challenge where you had a few more people, where each person builds a left and a right side, then uses the team spinner to determine who gets their left side. That person takes that left side, and adds it to their right side. They then use the team spinner to determine who gets their original left side. Repeat until everyone has someone else's left side on their build. Then, it's a free for all battle after a quick control setup for the mismatched sides.
Next time, you should do the same, but then swap and improve each other's builds Also Scrap, should've done a bit more research into the swept wing to utilize its benefits ;)
Video idea: A air or ground battle where you have to stay above a certain speed (100kph/60mph for ground and 250kph/155mph for air) and to add difficulty make a 100 block limit.
I think you overdid the "form" thing. When i build things in any game i try my best to make them look good but i always make sure that the vehicle i'm building is functional. I think Yzuei always makes his build functional to a certain degree before polishing it by adding aesthetic. He usually ends up sacrificing armor and defense at the cost of aesthetic but rarely sacrifices mobility and fire power.
Also, why are you guys so severe with the block limit ? You guys could've had a much more fair fight if the block limit was higher because you could have made something that looks cool with a more finished look but while not having to sacrifice this much function.
Now that you've done both build styles i say that you have to build in the same build style so form vs form or function vs function. That's two more videos if you decide to do that
You should have a battle where you can only shoot while driving backwards. Driving forwards must be at least 2x faster than driving backwards. The gun must be mounted forward.
The sukhoi SU47 had 2 on board supercomputers just so it could fly at level flight 1 was the main one and the other was a backup The plane was so unstable it actually required high precision supercomputers to calculate and adjust for capable flight No wonder the plane was hard to fly
I’d love to see this again 😂 Maybe a higher block limit but a lower power core limit to balance it out a little more, but that way you can both improve based on what you learned this time around
A 3 or 4 way battle where the winner doesn't get to repair sounds like a fun challenge to me. or a 2v2 where who ever is still flying doesn't get a repair, there are quite a few fun options to the idea of no repairs.
Well while it might not be original I would've gone for the A-10 Warthog. A simple design plane with big engines and room for various weapons. It most likely would've been a better form build for Scrapman than picking the worst possible plane to build especially at the 100 block limit. But that's just what I think.
have an air battle with no limits, other than blocks, but there is a build timer. You can do whatever you want, but you have to finish it within the time limit.
This gave me an idea for a challenge. Boss fight. One player makes a 3 times bigger build than the 3 others. Its for the 3 too take down the boss. Whatever boss build looses the quickest looses the chalange.
Video idea: ScrapMan builds a bare-bones functional vehicle while Yzuei builds a non-functional but aesthetically pleasing form of a vehicle, and then you swap builds, with ScrapMan adding function to the form build and Yzuei adding form to the function build
I have a suggestion for a potential challenge, so basically it be an air dogfight, but you would use the other persons vehicle, and the other person would use the vehicle you built sabotaging the vehicle is allowed
I don't know if there's ever been a challenge where everyone has the same reference and they have to build the same plane to see who is more similar and who is more functional.
You should do a version where Patches and JB join. Make teams one builds form the other function then the one building the form fights the other form and the same with the function. We've clearly seen that if it would be a 2v2 the function would just be fighting for the win unless the form gets a lucky shot. That or maybe give the form a low or no powercore limit (since there is only so much you can add before compromiseing form), but a higher block limit like 200. While the function gets a high powercore limit with maybe 100 blocks so there is more balance. And the battles would be more even and fun. (Also pick a plane that wasn't a nightmare to make and fly irl😂)
To those commenting that the SU-47 needs computers to fly... that's not inherent to its design, but a deliberate feature of virtually _all_ modern fighters. Very few fighters are inherently stable and most rely on computers to stay in the air, because stability and maneuverability are inversely related. It's similar to how a passenger car has all of its wheels aligned so that in the average driving condition the car is expected to see, they're perfectly straight to maximize stability and minimize tire wear. A race car, on the other hand, typically has lots of toe-in and camber-in. The camber-in is so that when the car is going around a high-gee corner and leans into the outer tire, the outer tire is optimally aligned. The toe-in is so that as weight transfers from steering input, the car responds instantly and nimbly because it's transferring weight onto a tire that's already steered inward a little. Similarly, a fighter jet wants the centers of mass, lift, and pressure to be perfectly co-located (neutral stability) or even for the center of pressure to be slightly in front of the center of mass, especially on the pitch axis. That way when the pilot starts to pull up, the weight of the plane wanting to swing around helps it pitch more quickly. This is a lot like how a dirt racer tends to be very oversteery so it can get into drifts easily so the thrust can be offset toward the inside of the curve. This also works for roll as well. Many fighters have neutral or even negative dihedral angle (the Harrier is the most obvious and intense version of this) to enable snap-rolling, even if some stability is sacrificed. Gen-5 fighters (whose hallmarks include supermaneuverability and supercruise), especially, want CoM, CoL, and CoP to be as close to perfectly co-located as possible, to minimize forces _not_ caused by thrust vectoring during supermaneuverable modes of flight. Gen 4 tended to be the dynamically unstable ones, while Gen 3 and earlier tended to have a bit larger stability margin so they could remain flyable while fully loaded with missiles, drop-tanks, and/or bombs. (Note: supermaneuverability is not just "really good maneuverability"; it's a specific term in aviation that means a specific thing. It means that a plane can still maneuver effectively even in a fully developed stall, when a normal plane would just be falling out of the sky, usually using thrust vectoring with some combination of computerized movement of control surfaces.) On the opposite end of the spectrum, in a passenger jet, Center of Pressure is _way_ behind Center of Mass on both pitch and yaw axes, while Center of Lift is a fair way behind it as well, with CoM being adjustable via pumping fuel around into various tanks, and how the cargo hold is loaded and passengers are distributed. Also, negative wing sweep doesn't create any inherent issues in basic level-flight stability (actually they're significantly _better,_ with more lift, more stability, more maneuverability, and more forgiving stall characteristics at low speed). Scrapman just had the wings way too far forward. On the SU-47, the centerline of the wings are nearly 3/4 of the way back, where Scrap had his closer to the half-way mark. The issue with negative sweep in the real world is that they introduce a lot of feedback loops at high speeds and extreme maneuvers, especially when the wings flex naturally under load. They thus have to be much, much more rigid, and that involves sacrifices in weight or cost, by using beefier wing internals or much more expensive materials.
Idea: dark souls boss battle 3v1 The attackers that aren't the boss get 150 block limit and 10power cores Meanwhile the boss is allowed 600 blocks and 40 power cores (4 times the amount on each) Boss gets 1 life while the 3 attackers get 3 lives each, 1st team to 3 wins
What's funny is that for taking inspiration from a real plane, you actually failed to notice just how far back the wing roots were. If you'd moved your wings back about 2 blocks, it would've been pretty good!
I think it would make for a neat video if you make a followup where you switch builds and let the 'experts' perfect the other's build with their appropriate skill.
I like the theme. Next time you both build form over function? Lets make beautiful planes (not nescescarry replicas, just free your mind) And give Yourself more block to deal with.
Honestly, redo the same challenge but with more rules/limits for parts and USE A BETTER PLANE FOR THE BUILD, you literally choose a design that had INSTABILITY in it's core principle, so try going with a more common design fighter, like any F14 to the 16, or maybe some other Sukhoi's fighter. This thing here was basically watching how much you can endure a very unfair fight in more-than-favorable conditions, so not much fun for either you (who took the beating like a champion, congrats) and yzuei (who had to basically get a decent lock and left-click you out of the sky). Overall good premise, lacks good execution.
idea: you face off in a vehicle using at least 1 of each part in the entire game, including all cosmetic parts you have access to, functional pieces such as wheels has to actually utilize their function as a wheel. idea 2: you make a single vehicle that functions both on land, sea, underwater and in air and fight i round in each region, for example, first fight on land, rule is you muct always be in contact with the ground, second fight, on the sea, rule is you muct be in contact with the water and majority of your craft must be above the surface, can not touch land or the bottom, third fight, underwater, rule is you must be completely submerged and can not make contact with the bottom, last fight, air, must be in air, can not touch land or water. you must use the same unmodified vehicle for all battles.
would be fun to see like a bossfight format, where 3 of you team up to destroy the player beeing the boss, a machine with much more firepower and bulk than the other ones
not sure if youll see this scrapman but thanks to you i started playing trailmakers and i made a weird verion of a VTOL that youd probably like. iwish you the best of luck on future vids
me when i build something, i do the form, then i add thing to make it mega functional, and yes once ive made the frame, i majorly don't make the frame beter once the build is finished
A cool idea would be a fight between two vehicles that have the function of both subs and planes so that way you could have a fight both in air and water at the same time
The Su-47 was such a cool choice, but there is a reason it was scrapped as a design. Believe it or not, it wasn't because of how unstable it was. When the onboard computer AND the two redundancy computers failed right before takeoff thats when they said nah, we're good lol
day 5 of asking: You should do a challenge where the *car driver builds the bomber plane* that the other side will be using to destroy the car, and the *bomber will be building the car* that you will use to destroy the bomber. Of course with some rules like "no self destructing" or "weird controls" so its actually possible.
the armament for the SU-47 is contained within it's fuselage to reduce it's RADAR cross-section scrapman also had the wings too far forward from the tail if you look it appears that the wings an the back rutters are one single piece
it would've been noticeably easier to fly if the wings were placed just a little bit farther back. The forward sweep moves the center of lift forward making the build very maneuverable, but unstable. Still would've been a glass cannon, though.
should do a 4player edition of this, 3 rounds of build style 1 function over stle, 2 style over function then lastly function and style, so the last build must be both functional and stylish
I would have liked to see the function build kinda ripped in half and then used to replace the wings of the form to create both form and function, I also think it would have looked pretty cool with those two builds
Do dogfight rounds where every round the block limit and power cores increases. The hard part is that you have to use the entire build budget each round.
Form and function both play integral parts in a build. Many designs of combat aircraft are function specific, however without form you give up something in trade. Some modern fighter jets carry weaponry internally instead of hanging from the wing. This gives the form the ability to act, while still having the function capable. Best of both worlds if you will. The thing is, we are at the point where the human body can no longer handle the designs we create. Ai will soon be controlling our military grade ships before we know it. Are we ready for that?
is it just me, or does yzuei's build remind of a Y-Wing from star wars??? either way love your content scrapman, havent play the game irl but its pushing me to want to get it more
Next time form should have a higher block and core limit since form is more about asthetic then function which needs to just work. As we saw maybe uping blocks from 100 to 150 or 200 might have been safer. Keeping function lower like at 100 was good as we saw.
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What's funny is that the plane Scrapman was building only worked irl with an onboard computer making adjustments all the time so it makes sense that Scrapman had a hard time controlling it
That, and he made it tail heavy.
Yeah the game tells you the center of lift on the current wing positions so building a plane that changes the wing geometry makes it very difficult
Yea, the swept wings were not the best choice
I would love to see a part 2 to this where Yzeui modifies Scrapman’s build and Scrapman does the same to Yzeui’s.
Most modern fighting jets need a computer because they're essentially flying bricks
Funfact: The SU-47 Berkut needed a on-board computer to be able to fly, as it was too unstable for only a human Pilot. No wonder Scrapman had issues flying it.
Like any other 4th gen
Yeah pretty much every jet fighter built in the last 40+ years relies on an onboard computer to fly, they're built intentionally unstable to increase maneuverability in combat, and it takes a computer to keep them stable since a human cant make the million tiny adjustments a second the plane requires just to fly straight and level. There were a few that were so unstable they required a separate flight computer for each axis. So one handled pitch, one handled roll, and one handled yaw.
@@outkast937those are some really old computers though, nowadays you can probably do all the calculations with a smartphone, but the point still stands that the whole point of a forward wing is to reduce stability, and lack of stability means the plane kinda 'wants' to turn, making the turns extremely sharp. But that unstable equilibrium also makes it completely uncontrollable without computers. It's like theoretically you can balance a playing card on its edge, but if someone breathes from 10m away, the card already will fall over. Minimal input causes maximum effect.
The good old "Its fine, we will fix it in software"
Scrapman really went for the most difficult jet to build. Functionally the Su-47 Berkut wasn't an easy plane to build, it needed lot's of onboard computing and flight assistance to be stable in the air.
And then Scrapman is like "Yeah, this is the build I'll put maximum Form into."
could be fun to have like a three-way build battle where you build the vehicle, but you then randomly draw who gets what vehicle, so you want to both make it bad for the other people to use, but you also want to make it good enough for yourself to be able to win if you draw your own vehicle
Iirc they did something similar in Scrap Mechanic a while back - I think it was multi-stage, where each player had to do one race with every vehicle, including their own.
I want to see this
this is actually a pretty good idea
Sounds great
That's a great idea
Your function over form design mindset is actually quite fitting for a name like ScrapMan. Taking scrap to build functional machines, with form taking second priority as long as it works as intended.
Scrapman has the same issues with building a forward-swept wing as NASA had with the X-29 😂
forward sweep is hard
X-29 is the sexiest plane ever, in my opinion
@@Aster722xp55 is better in my opinion
@@ThatGamerPilot Yeah XP-55 is pretty sexy
Scrap Man started at a disadvantage by being put out of his comfort zone for building, then he immediately cranked his own difficulty up to 11 by picking an aircraft that can barely fly IRL because it is so unstable. The whole time I watched you trying to test fly, I was was thinking "Yup, that's an issue they had with the real version too 😆"
same. as soon as showed the picture of the Su-47, I just saw the scene for Last Crusade where the knight tells the villain he has chosen...poorly
Yeah the plane was designed to be unstable, minimising stability maximises agility. But without computers it's just unflyable. The idea was to create an unstable equilibrium, like a ball at the top of the hill, no matter where you go the forces on it will want it to move even more in that direction. Incredibly agile, but also incredibly unstable.
Stable planes, like passenger planes, are the other way around, without any input at all it will just keep flying straight for quite a while, you'd specifically have to overcome drag to do anything other than go straight. They are like a ball in a valley, no matter where you force the ball too, it wants to return to its original position.
I like how over time these 2 recognised their building styles and are finding ways to make it more entertaining. Very interesting.
Also, it might be fun to do a part 2 where they up the block limit by a hundred or 2.
So a tip for choosing the right shapes, just don't worry about it when you first place them. Whichever you found first, just place that, and if there is a better one, you will find it later while working on other parts of the build. Just don't stay too long on a single part.
i spend an hour on a single little bump on my vehicles and waste my life away while doing so.
ill keep this tip in mind. thanks
I think a lot of the instability came from the backwards tail fins on the side of the wings. The tail fins were trying to point into the wind, and in doing that they flip the plane about
I always like the generation videos because it gives you guys the chance to improve on the errors of the last challenge. It would be cool to see a video where you build attack helicopters, and fly them in a congested area to the death
Something either like a manned drone battle or light air craft battles would be so cool to again
The su-47 is actually a very unstable aircraft, so good on you scrapman for making a perfect replica of this Soviet jet controllability wise.
The second I saw Scrapman's "cool plane choice" I was cracking up because he had no idea of the unstable wreck he just cursed himself with 🤣
Interesting addition to future rules: Stock Battle. You are out when your build is destroyed or repairs 5 times.
I enjoy watching you because you prioritize function. Your builds are always the biggest & best, which I love.
Forward-sweep wing planes were unstable in real life and they had 2 purposes: making the plane unstable and delaying tip stalling. If the plane is more unstable, it turns better. The problem is that the stabilisation systems were not very reliable at the time. Tip stalling is when the tips of the wing lose airflow. With regular swept wings the tip stalls first, but with forward-swept wings start to stall at the root. Also, the wings in the front are called canards and they are responsable for pitch and roll. (Very nerdy stuff 🤓🤓🤓)
this guy havent change over the past 5 year. We love you scrapman!
Scrapman: "I got a few shots in your direction" Yzuei: "You did?!"
Video idea: Full complexity dog fights. No rules, just above 650 blocks!
Maybe even multiple stages in which the different weapons are allowed only, but they must be on the built in the beginning and only be toggled
If Yzuei were to take your Form Build into his Garage and see what he could do with it, I wonder what he'd do with it...?
Meanwhile, you could take Yzuei's Function Build into your Garage, you could just sit down and munch Popcorn cause no changes are needed. :P
For what it's worth, You got your behind kicked so hard because ya are on the RIGHT side of the Fence on which is more important. ;)
... meanwhile, I haven't yet ever been able to make even ONE Plane or Jet i'm happy with. :(
Thats what i Love about videos with Yzuei, its good to see fights between Function and Style 🙏
Scrapman, next time you build in teams building 2 vehicles, build them together with your teammate, this way they will end up more complex and the battles will be more interesting
You should do a challenge with Yzuei and the other’s where you have to use B-17’s which are two or three seater, one Pilot,One gunner and one person who bomb’s stuff, and the Aim of the challenge is to destroy the most Targets without the other team destroying the B-17(Eg. Fighter jet’s)
I know you sorta have done this before, just without the Target bombing, I would love to see you try this😁
what does it say about how well they understand each others building styles when they were able to perfectly mimic each others building style since while Yuzei's "plane" could fly with half of it missing scrap's stopped functioning as soon as any sort of control surface is taken off even if it's just one tail fin which is the complete opposite of their normal dynamic which was the whole challenge this time
Great video! I've got an idea for the next one. You and Yzuei should combine your airplanes. Example: You build a pure function plane, and he builds almost pure form plane, then you combine them, and fight JB and Patches, that have built their planes the same way. And you could either have one gunner, one pilot, or have two planes for each team. Maybe I have not explained this the best way, but I hope you understand
So basically you take the best from the form and the function builds to make the best aircraft with both form and function. using their two building styles and build ideas. So for this you would take the form from Scrapman's build and the function from Yzuei keeping the jet style, fixing the balance issues, adding the weapons, some of the big thrusters and the servos. Something like that?
@@BoneKrusher Exactly
They're always saying that Scrapan does function over form but most of his builds look cool in the process
The forward-swept wings are inherently unstable, it's no wonder this plane was so hard to fly xD
Instability is neither forward swept wing, nor integral wing exclusive feature. It is intentional to turn nose around and shoot faster.
I think it would be cool if you did a challenge where you had a few more people, where each person builds a left and a right side, then uses the team spinner to determine who gets their left side. That person takes that left side, and adds it to their right side. They then use the team spinner to determine who gets their original left side. Repeat until everyone has someone else's left side on their build. Then, it's a free for all battle after a quick control setup for the mismatched sides.
Next time, you should do the same, but then swap and improve each other's builds
Also Scrap, should've done a bit more research into the swept wing to utilize its benefits ;)
Might be interesting to see how you both would build the same form. Pick a reference then both try to make the same thing and see how they turn out.
Video idea: A air or ground battle where you have to stay above a certain speed (100kph/60mph for ground and 250kph/155mph for air) and to add difficulty make a 100 block limit.
Challange idea: for the next challange, build a car/plane/ship for your ENEMY!
I think you overdid the "form" thing.
When i build things in any game i try my best to make them look good but i always make sure that the vehicle i'm building is functional.
I think Yzuei always makes his build functional to a certain degree before polishing it by adding aesthetic.
He usually ends up sacrificing armor and defense at the cost of aesthetic but rarely sacrifices mobility and fire power.
Also, why are you guys so severe with the block limit ? You guys could've had a much more fair fight if the block limit was higher because you could have made something that looks cool with a more finished look but while not having to sacrifice this much function.
Now that you've done both build styles i say that you have to build in the same build style so form vs form or function vs function.
That's two more videos if you decide to do that
I love the science and testing videos the most
The thing about form vs function is that function often looks good. Yzuei's craft looks awesome lol
I hope Yzuei puts this build of his on the Workshop. It looks like an amazing build.
1:22 Scrapman saying he's going to focus on form then immediately worrying about function.
ScrapMan (loses one tailfin): I'm done.
Yzuei (tanks an entire pass of gunfire): That tickled.
This must have been hard but honestly this is probably the best looking build you've ever done super impressed! :D
You should have a battle where you can only shoot while driving backwards. Driving forwards must be at least 2x faster than driving backwards. The gun must be mounted forward.
The sukhoi SU47 had 2 on board supercomputers just so it could fly at level flight
1 was the main one and the other was a backup
The plane was so unstable it actually required high precision supercomputers to calculate and adjust for capable flight
No wonder the plane was hard to fly
Post space update idea: Star Wars inspired space fight.
Also, interesting concept.
I’d love to see this again 😂 Maybe a higher block limit but a lower power core limit to balance it out a little more, but that way you can both improve based on what you learned this time around
A 3 or 4 way battle where the winner doesn't get to repair sounds like a fun challenge to me. or a 2v2 where who ever is still flying doesn't get a repair, there are quite a few fun options to the idea of no repairs.
"Maybe i need more speed"
"OH MY GOODNESS, OH MY GOODNESS!!!!"
"U smokin somewhere"
My head: somewhere down the street,in an alley
I'd love to see more build style swaps. Maybe next time it could be boats
And here I am thinking scrapmans normal build look 1000 times better than mine 😢
For a full function build that's quite a nice looking brick
Well while it might not be original I would've gone for the A-10 Warthog. A simple design plane with big engines and room for various weapons. It most likely would've been a better form build for Scrapman than picking the worst possible plane to build especially at the 100 block limit. But that's just what I think.
have an air battle with no limits, other than blocks, but there is a build timer. You can do whatever you want, but you have to finish it within the time limit.
"I took something off. Was it important?" Every part is important in your plane. So yes.
do an air battle but you are only allowed to use one flap for up and down so you have to go up and you have to turn with the same flap
This gave me an idea for a challenge. Boss fight. One player makes a 3 times bigger build than the 3 others. Its for the 3 too take down the boss. Whatever boss build looses the quickest looses the chalange.
This remembers me trying to make the saab 35 i think (a sweeden plane) flyed like a brick but looked cool😂
Reminds me of trying to make the Saab35 I think (a Swedish plane) flew like a brick but looked cool.
Sorry I corrected it
@danthiel8623 yeah my bad, wrote it fast, plus I am not a native speaker.
Video idea: ScrapMan builds a bare-bones functional vehicle while Yzuei builds a non-functional but aesthetically pleasing form of a vehicle, and then you swap builds, with ScrapMan adding function to the form build and Yzuei adding form to the function build
I have a suggestion for a potential challenge, so basically it be an air dogfight, but you would use the other persons vehicle, and the other person would use the vehicle you built sabotaging the vehicle is allowed
I don't know if there's ever been a challenge where everyone has the same reference and they have to build the same plane to see who is more similar and who is more functional.
You should do a version where Patches and JB join. Make teams one builds form the other function then the one building the form fights the other form and the same with the function. We've clearly seen that if it would be a 2v2 the function would just be fighting for the win unless the form gets a lucky shot. That or maybe give the form a low or no powercore limit (since there is only so much you can add before compromiseing form), but a higher block limit like 200. While the function gets a high powercore limit with maybe 100 blocks so there is more balance. And the battles would be more even and fun. (Also pick a plane that wasn't a nightmare to make and fly irl😂)
To those commenting that the SU-47 needs computers to fly... that's not inherent to its design, but a deliberate feature of virtually _all_ modern fighters. Very few fighters are inherently stable and most rely on computers to stay in the air, because stability and maneuverability are inversely related.
It's similar to how a passenger car has all of its wheels aligned so that in the average driving condition the car is expected to see, they're perfectly straight to maximize stability and minimize tire wear. A race car, on the other hand, typically has lots of toe-in and camber-in. The camber-in is so that when the car is going around a high-gee corner and leans into the outer tire, the outer tire is optimally aligned. The toe-in is so that as weight transfers from steering input, the car responds instantly and nimbly because it's transferring weight onto a tire that's already steered inward a little.
Similarly, a fighter jet wants the centers of mass, lift, and pressure to be perfectly co-located (neutral stability) or even for the center of pressure to be slightly in front of the center of mass, especially on the pitch axis. That way when the pilot starts to pull up, the weight of the plane wanting to swing around helps it pitch more quickly. This is a lot like how a dirt racer tends to be very oversteery so it can get into drifts easily so the thrust can be offset toward the inside of the curve. This also works for roll as well. Many fighters have neutral or even negative dihedral angle (the Harrier is the most obvious and intense version of this) to enable snap-rolling, even if some stability is sacrificed.
Gen-5 fighters (whose hallmarks include supermaneuverability and supercruise), especially, want CoM, CoL, and CoP to be as close to perfectly co-located as possible, to minimize forces _not_ caused by thrust vectoring during supermaneuverable modes of flight. Gen 4 tended to be the dynamically unstable ones, while Gen 3 and earlier tended to have a bit larger stability margin so they could remain flyable while fully loaded with missiles, drop-tanks, and/or bombs. (Note: supermaneuverability is not just "really good maneuverability"; it's a specific term in aviation that means a specific thing. It means that a plane can still maneuver effectively even in a fully developed stall, when a normal plane would just be falling out of the sky, usually using thrust vectoring with some combination of computerized movement of control surfaces.)
On the opposite end of the spectrum, in a passenger jet, Center of Pressure is _way_ behind Center of Mass on both pitch and yaw axes, while Center of Lift is a fair way behind it as well, with CoM being adjustable via pumping fuel around into various tanks, and how the cargo hold is loaded and passengers are distributed.
Also, negative wing sweep doesn't create any inherent issues in basic level-flight stability (actually they're significantly _better,_ with more lift, more stability, more maneuverability, and more forgiving stall characteristics at low speed). Scrapman just had the wings way too far forward. On the SU-47, the centerline of the wings are nearly 3/4 of the way back, where Scrap had his closer to the half-way mark.
The issue with negative sweep in the real world is that they introduce a lot of feedback loops at high speeds and extreme maneuvers, especially when the wings flex naturally under load. They thus have to be much, much more rigid, and that involves sacrifices in weight or cost, by using beefier wing internals or much more expensive materials.
Here's an idea for a pvp challenge: each player builds their opponents' vehicles, with 3 rounds for a land, sea, AND air vehicle.
Idea: dark souls boss battle 3v1
The attackers that aren't the boss get 150 block limit and 10power cores
Meanwhile the boss is allowed 600 blocks and 40 power cores (4 times the amount on each)
Boss gets 1 life while the 3 attackers get 3 lives each, 1st team to 3 wins
how about a one does form the other does the function. but function is made first and form is added to it.(both have to do each)
What's funny is that for taking inspiration from a real plane, you actually failed to notice just how far back the wing roots were. If you'd moved your wings back about 2 blocks, it would've been pretty good!
I think it would make for a neat video if you make a followup where you switch builds and let the 'experts' perfect the other's build with their appropriate skill.
I loved the way that ScrapMan is always positive in these types of videos.
I like the theme.
Next time you both build form over function? Lets make beautiful planes (not nescescarry replicas, just free your mind) And give Yourself more block to deal with.
Honestly, redo the same challenge but with more rules/limits for parts and USE A BETTER PLANE FOR THE BUILD, you literally choose a design that had INSTABILITY in it's core principle, so try going with a more common design fighter, like any F14 to the 16, or maybe some other Sukhoi's fighter.
This thing here was basically watching how much you can endure a very unfair fight in more-than-favorable conditions, so not much fun for either you (who took the beating like a champion, congrats) and yzuei (who had to basically get a decent lock and left-click you out of the sky).
Overall good premise, lacks good execution.
idea: you face off in a vehicle using at least 1 of each part in the entire game, including all cosmetic parts you have access to, functional pieces such as wheels has to actually utilize their function as a wheel.
idea 2: you make a single vehicle that functions both on land, sea, underwater and in air and fight i round in each region,
for example, first fight on land, rule is you muct always be in contact with the ground,
second fight, on the sea, rule is you muct be in contact with the water and majority of your craft must be above the surface, can not touch land or the bottom,
third fight, underwater, rule is you must be completely submerged and can not make contact with the bottom,
last fight, air, must be in air, can not touch land or water.
you must use the same unmodified vehicle for all battles.
The trick to building focused on form is build small. It sounds like the opposite of what you’d expect but it works.
asking scrapman to build a machine that pushes one building into another one, like a domino, in instruments of destruction
Maybe you could do a plane/boat hybrid challenge where every 30 seconds you have to switch from water to air and vice versa
would be fun to see like a bossfight format, where 3 of you team up to destroy the player beeing the boss, a machine with much more firepower and bulk than the other ones
not sure if youll see this scrapman but thanks to you i started playing trailmakers and i made a weird verion of a VTOL that youd probably like. iwish you the best of luck on future vids
me when i build something, i do the form, then i add thing to make it mega functional, and yes once ive made the frame, i majorly don't make the frame beter once the build is finished
A cool idea would be a fight between two vehicles that have the function of both subs and planes so that way you could have a fight both in air and water at the same time
The Su-47 was such a cool choice, but there is a reason it was scrapped as a design. Believe it or not, it wasn't because of how unstable it was. When the onboard computer AND the two redundancy computers failed right before takeoff thats when they said nah, we're good lol
ScrapMan: SU-27
Yzuei: kAN's flying brick
Looking like an Alien invader vs a basic human plane lol.
Keep up the good work bro best trail makers content ever made
here we see a wild scrapman in his natural habitat being hunted by his greatest preditor
day 5 of asking: You should do a challenge where the *car driver builds the bomber plane* that the other side will be using to destroy the car, and the *bomber will be building the car* that you will use to destroy the bomber. Of course with some rules like "no self destructing" or "weird controls" so its actually possible.
i'd like to see more of this with other vehicles. getting stuck in that one head space really threw you but thats part of the game.
You need to do one where you do your own building styles to the extreme.
the armament for the SU-47 is contained within it's fuselage to reduce it's RADAR cross-section scrapman also had the wings too far forward from the tail if you look it appears that the wings an the back rutters are one single piece
it would've been noticeably easier to fly if the wings were placed just a little bit farther back. The forward sweep moves the center of lift forward making the build very maneuverable, but unstable. Still would've been a glass cannon, though.
Scrapman me and yusi should do a building challenge of function vs form like those videos where they guess with vague discriptions?
I kinda like Yuzei's plane, it looks like a very early plane but filled to the brim with engines
should do a 4player edition of this, 3 rounds of build style 1 function over stle, 2 style over function then lastly function and style, so the last build must be both functional and stylish
I would have liked to see the function build kinda ripped in half and then used to replace the wings of the form to create both form and function, I also think it would have looked pretty cool with those two builds
Do dogfight rounds where every round the block limit and power cores increases. The hard part is that you have to use the entire build budget each round.
Day one of asking scrapman to make a machine that can discombobulate buster
In summary discombobulate
He had thrust only in the back
Another great video
How do u know its gonna be great...
@@rudolf_box8440it's a "scrapman video "
True
How symbolic that Su-47 Firkin is also focused on style esthetic and cannot perform military tasks without further modifications
Form and function both play integral parts in a build. Many designs of combat aircraft are function specific, however without form you give up something in trade. Some modern fighter jets carry weaponry internally instead of hanging from the wing. This gives the form the ability to act, while still having the function capable. Best of both worlds if you will. The thing is, we are at the point where the human body can no longer handle the designs we create. Ai will soon be controlling our military grade ships before we know it. Are we ready for that?
is it just me, or does yzuei's build remind of a Y-Wing from star wars???
either way love your content scrapman, havent play the game irl but its pushing me to want to get it more
Next time form should have a higher block and core limit since form is more about asthetic then function which needs to just work. As we saw maybe uping blocks from 100 to 150 or 200 might have been safer. Keeping function lower like at 100 was good as we saw.
lol Scrapman's instability kind of helped him in the dogfight.