@@pianoman3214 not even anything to do with that. Some of the platforms they came out with after that were just garbage. 2001-2005 civic 2002-2008 accord After those years, those models got a bit better, but that's when they really tried to cheap out on manufacturing costs.
@@capnvariance Dual wishbone suspension was the best. Trading low torque and high revs for more torque with lower revs was understandable at the time, but they just aren't as fun.
Based on 10 years experience as a high perf driving instructor on tracks around the northeast, here are my thoughts: 1) Most common trackday cars by far: Miata (all), E36, C5 & 6. To lesser extent Fiesta, Focus and VW hatches. Price, parts support and reliability all contribute to popularity (along with the driving fun of course) 2) popular but seem to be really fragile are the Subaru’s - they break far to often compared to above. An interesting observation considering O’Neil rallies them...? 3) The FRS sibs are a more recent addition to track days and so far so good - they seem to be holding up really well and are a great driver’s car 4) my track day only car of choice is an Ariel Atom SRA: $30K used, zero driver’s aids (even steering and brakes are manual), ~1400 lbs, honda drive train, 1 set of tires and pads per year, rotors ever 2 years. Literally put gas in it and drive. Virtually no maintenance.
one possibility here regarding #2 is that a lot of track-driven Subarus are highly boosted, whereas the Oneil fleet is likely mostly na, and definitely not highly modified in the power department.
The 2.5 with a turbo sucks basically. Here is the UK and over in Japan we have the 2.0l and it's miles better for reliability. The main problem with Subarus is the rust. On mitsubishis the rust is even worse as well. I don't know if it would be allowed, but if you are in the USA and your sti needs a new engine, you should seriously consider getting a 2.0l turbo with the twins roll turbo from Japan. If you give it a mild remap and set the limiter to 7k it should be rock solid.
Been (no perf) driving a BRZ for 7 years now, excellent balance as a driver’s car and a daily. Weight is spectacular, reliability is solid. Half-decent tires and a touch more power goes a LONG way!
Many Spec Miatas are here on the west for drivers as a first step out of karting. About 10k for a safe race ready car. They're great for learning the skills needed for your Ariel Atom.
Some competitions will only let you rally your Miata if you weld in a roof in addition to the normal cage. Even with a lift kit, they feel gutless in the mud.
Yeah, any stage rally, rules state must have come from the factory with permanent roof. I have a v8 miata, great car and tons of fun. Cheap vw golf or b5 a4, wreck it, leave it where it lies and repeat
At the 5k mark... Old 5speed subaru. 2005 is one of the best NA years. Drive by wire(ECU Flash capable), No AVLS, return fuel system. Super easy to work on, cheap parts. LSD's readily available. No traction control.
@@nabox1435 I have a 2006 5 speed NA Impreza as well and that thing loves to pull to redline. Literally everyone that has driven it comments how fun it is to drive. Everyone describes it as "Zippy" lol.
Yeah I got an '06 outback and pretty much nothing happens before 4k. Sort of like a Honda, slow as hell and then it kicks in and gets a little more respectable
I texted with you about a month ago on here about this. I was asking about the Fiesta 5spd vs the 2003ish ford Focus SVT... i went with the 2014 Ford Fiesta SE thanks to much of what you are saying here and I'm glad I did. THANKS BROTHER. It's all set up now for the rallycross season
I got into rallycross last year. I was looking for a budget car. I found a 99 legacy gt 5spd for 700 bucks. I put some new struts on it and a skid plate. I have been beating on the car for over a year now and haven't had any issues surprisingly. and it has been really competitive in stock awd class.
I like this with the exception of age. while I know logically it makes sense to go newer, the simplicity that comes from older rides (like a 90s miata) is just invaluable when something does break. What I look for is a good running engine and no chassis rust (body rust is fine its getting dented anyway) and everything else i can fix. This is anecdotal, but I had a corvette 09 that had an airbag sensor go bad during cold weather only. Thats just a pain that wont appear in something simpler like a miata. If you are comfortable working on cars, or are looking to get comfortable, I still highly recommend going old, cheap and simple since hard driving in whatever you are hooning in is gunna cause damage over time. THEN move on to bigger stuff, newer stuff, or simply more complex cars with your basic mechanical knowledge gained from an older ride. if you arent interested in working on your own stuff though, for sure go as new as possible with what you can afford, so you can beat on it every day
So glad i was able to get my 86 Mercedes Cosworths for less than 2k each. 5spd dogleg with mechanical LSD. Been very reliable and fun the last 8 years.
@ Not mint but not awful. Neither has rust, one had a fist sized dent in the rear quarter that someone repaired and i didnt even noticed until i stripped out the trunk years later. That one has 135k miles, Is stripped out, and is sitting on eibach springs and brembos from the 500e/evo2. The other one had a pieced together and crappy welded exhaust that I replaced for a few hundred dollars. It also had a high idle/vacuum leaks but its good now. That car has like 240k miles. AC doesnt work. I pulled the dash recently since Im at home for this virus outbreak so i can finally work on it. Its almost all original except i got rid of the SLS(for now) and installed roll up windows on all 4 doors. Biggest negative is the clear coats have been slowly peeling since before I bought them and its getting ugly. Im in socal but not too close to the beach. Sucks about the market on them, cheapest Ive seen is 2 months ago someone had 3 non running rust buckets for 4k in Kansas City but the ad is gone now.
I daily an frs right now and I agree with your recommendation. Amazing car for the money. I would also recommend the compact and subcompact Japanese cars like the corolla XRS or the civic SI. They are very forgiving, affordable, and unbreakable. Good cars to learn on.
Any year Honda Fit/Jazz is a great little hatch honestly. Decent performance numbers (for what it is), light, manual, some trims have LSDs (aftermarket ones are available), good MPG, cheap, and pretty sturdy for the most part. There's even a Honda Fit Spec racing series that's pretty entertaining to watch. I've seen one in Autocross that was hanging with Miatas and well built BMW's. Wheels and tires are fairly small which help cut costs too. I don't know how good the aftermarket is for them but thankfully they're fairly simple to modify for most things on it and some of the more popular engine options have good aftermarket support. And hey, VTEC bro.
It's a real bummer that Ford has decided to stop selling cars (other than the Mustang) in North America. The new Fiesta ST looks very cool and comes from the factory with a mech LSD.
I have loved using my 09 Honda Fit sport because it has funneled through this criteria all except balance is a little lower on the power but it rides corners like a beast and as far as i know doesn't have a front lsd. Highly recommend it for a rally car if anyone is wondering 😁
i have an o4 blobsti ideal for canadian mountain life spirited and willing in the snow and dirt... the rust is a constant battle is the biggest issue. nearing a decade of ownership reasonably satified. 7/10
I raced RWD V8's in the 80's and 90's in both 1/4 mile and track... I drove an AWD Porsche Turbo... And now I am racing a Mazdaspeed 3... And I don't see any being better, a good driver adjusts... AWD is faster but leaks more power than the other two... RWD is fun to control under steer and oversteer with power more than just speed vectors, and it has a minor power leak... FWD is more forgiving yet faster than the RWD, leaks less power than the other two and if Mustangs are fun at launch so is the torque steer of a 400+ bhp FWD Buying a sports car has some advantages, the oem suspension and springs are more solid than the same regular sedan or hatch so you can leave that to upgrade till last. Also the engine platform is better than a regular version with smaller size engine. The rest, starting with tires, is probably the same... A regular Civic from a Mustang. Handling -> tires.... TIRES! Upgrading springs with out the best tires is nonsensical. Brake pads are super important, I haven't seen a stock brand which is anything but mediocre, all brands! And the driver is the most important part... Can anyone here remain cool when a "fast car" revs up and launches at a light on the street? No? Then you shouldn't be driving a fast car at all... Cool mind, calculations, risk assessment.... The more the better.
A lot of people run '00-'05 Honda S2000s as track cars. They can be found between $10k and $20k, weigh 2800 lbs with 50:50 weight distribution and double wishbone suspension on all four corners, 240 horsepower, reliable NA 4 cylinder, 6-speed manual transmission, ABS only, no TC or stability control, cable throttle, mechanical LSD, cable handbrake, and 20-24 MPG.
Good luck with the diff… it’s good for 400hp in a 2000lb Miata. In a 2800lb 240hp car you start having issues when you start pushing the car, especially when combined with power adders, and there’s no east bolt-in upgrade. Plus the hardtop market for S2ks is legitimately retarded, but I guarantee you’ll want one for track use. You could get two Miatas for an s2k hard top :/
Oh and thank you so much guys your lessons are amazing and I've improved so much I beat a 535i with a crv and I hope that in a few years I'll be able to fly out and take the whole course, keep it up guys your amazing!!
I love your videos, The information and insight that you share from driving techniques to decision makings is amazing. And you explain in a straightforward and understandable way!
How is there not a single comment about 350Z, G35, 370Z and G37? Depending on budget, theyre such great bargains for any performance driving on pavement. That plus they pass through every filter in on the board with ease.
I would add 2005 to 2008 Audi A4s, with 2.0T engines and the 6-speed manual. Decent power, decent all wheel drive, nice balance and brakes, has an actual hand e-brake, and be had for $5k to $9k. Had one when I lived in Connecticut, and nothing is more fun that sliding an A4 around turns in the winter with a dedicated set of snow tires.
The Torsen center differential is pretty good, it's basically 50:50 by default but can automatically apportion up to 75% of the torque to the front or rear. That variability can make it a little unpredictable, but it's also a lot of fun when you get the hang of it
You guys are so cool. Ive only driven a Honda Civic in autocross ONCE years ago, but I still love learning all this stuff even though I'll probably never be on a track again
Every car enthusiast, whether tarmac or gravel, should put Team O'Neil's Rally School on their bucket list. Seriously, the skills you learn on the course will improve your ability no matter what or where you drive.
My gold standard is the 1989 Peugeot 405. It was light, cheap, had great motors, fade free brakes and you could heal and toe with ease. It was FWD but really responded to left foot braking , the handling was balanced and the ride was excellent. The best part was the steering feel. Steering rack was mounted without rubber to the chassis and the power steering assist via was a rubber mounted actuator. You could feel what the tires were doing all the time. It was very confidence inspiring. It was slow and the limits were low, so you could drive it fast and nobody would notice. I always wanted to drive the piss out of that car and it would take it well. My first/last one had 290k+ miles on it, with the original clutch (albeit nearly toast). It autox, TSD rallied, camped and carried my new born kids. Highly underrated. Finally sold it in 2019. Currently driving a Mazdaspeed Protege for fun and TSD rally, Sicon iA to commute.
Great handling but I feel like they are pretty over inflated. $19K is a lot for a 15 year old soft top with non-existent underside areo and a torque deficiency. Definitely a drivers car though.
I love my $4,000 03 wrx. Only issues are some of the aftermarket parts the previous owner installed like $199 coilovers, cheap wastegate and front mount setup. It also burns oil, but at least it had a new clutch and newer transmission.
I picked up a 2003 impreza wrx for 3800$ and with a bit of time and about double that in mods/maitinace I have a very fun/ safe car that I belive meet all the requirements here especially for western Montana. Love your channel
What engine choices would you suggest for the 106? I'm eyeing the Saxo VTS/106 GTi for the medium term future when I get some cash saved up but they're approaching C2 VTS prices so I'm not sure if it's worth it going for that old of a car. The C2 is much uglier but I don't care about it that much hahahah
coscorrodrift Saxo vts is much, MUCH better car than C2, not even the same league. Also much simpler car if anything goes wrong mechanicly, C2 can be a propper nightmare when it breaks down.
@@frightenedsoul We have a different model. Compare the 2 pages. www.ford.com/cars/fiesta/models/fiesta-st/ and www.ford.de/fahrzeuge/ford-fiesta-st?searchid=ppc:Search_DE(deu)%7C%5BAO%5D_Retail_SD_Nameplate_Fiesta:ST_CPPI_EUR%7CShp-T2%7CExact:Fiesta-ST-Exact:fiesta%20st:e:m:g:GOOGLE&gclid=Cj0KCQjw3qzzBRDnARIsAECmryoizbSY8qm8Nyz4x2jPDq9xaDX-C_BroOYrlwj6SzYtIDDV1hoCSPAaAnFVEALw_wcB
I live in the US and got a 2015 Fiesta ST. I was so excited when I saw the pictures and specs on the new 2018 Fiesta ST with the lsd, 3 cylinder engine, redesigned suspension and much better interior. I was heartbroken when the news came out that it wouldn’t be sold here. When I saw 2018 Fiesta ST’s being sold here that were the older generation, I thought dealerships were just selling 2017’s as 2018’s, but then when I saw 2019’s for sale I realized that wasn’t the case. Our cars are made in Mexico as opposed to the newer generation which is made in Europe. The Mexican factory just kept cranking out the older generation for a couple years. Since I love my Fiesta ST so much and couldn’t get the newer generation, I drove almost 14 hours to Mountune USA (in SoCal) to have them install an lsd and a larger intercooler with a tune.
I have a 2008 Nissan 350z HR, I haven’t gone on the track with it but I have definitely put it through hell and it’s held up pretty great. I wouldn’t get a DE due to it’s known issues, but the HR’s are reliable sub-100k miles. I’ve driven long distances in the snow, run it 150 mph+ on a few occasions and 130+ more than I can count. Great reliable affordable car.
Good in corners as well, forgot to mention it’s overall performance. If you get the grand touring package it comes with brembo brakes, huge positive for long term hard driving.
RWD king imho is the C6 Corvette. Early years are under 20k, and you can find 2010-13 Grand Sports with under 50k miles for under $30k. Rock solid LS, real diff, 6 speed, traction control is easily disabled, real grip-rip handbrake, supercar level handling and enough power you won’t outgrow it. Yes they require more discipline to drive fast, but that’s the idea right? (Bonus) huge aftermarket community. horsepower? Sky is the limit and relatively affordable and very reliable.
2011-2014 mustang v6. Yes I said v6. Clutch based Limited slip? Check. 300hp? Check. 6-speed manual? Check. Real handbrake? Check. 30 mpg on highway? Check. Can be found for under 10k? Check. The only problem you may run into is that it is on the heavy side. Everything else about it fits into the criteria. I daily drive one (:
My 2000 Jetta VR6 has been great (bought 2 years ago). Bought for $600 with no real issues, added Wilwood and GLI brakes, ABS/AST disabled, coilovers, race motor mounts, light flywheel and pulleys, intake/exhaust/tune, Recaros/Harness, and some maintenance (with best fluids possible). $7000 in and about 7000 great miles of death rides and events so far...
And here i am with my 97 Land Cruiser with 320,000 miles that I daily and beat on the trails. Granted, you are totally right about age being the main problem. Little things like seals and wire brittlement and what not.
2007 Mitsubishi Galant. Has 233k miles, and we still beat it every weekend up the canyon or in the desert. Has never let me down. Super durable and has decent stock suspension.
The best driver's car is a Manual Transmission, Naturally Aspirated, RWD, Gasoline/Petrol, Durable, Reliable, $30,000 Thirty year old Toyota Corolla Hatchback AE86. Just kidding, Other than that the FF Honda Civic Type R, Si, and Sport Manual are pretty nice. If you like AWD a Subaru WRX and STi, Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution, or Ford Focus RS are fun. Very Cheap RWD MR2 and S2000 are cool too but the rule of old needs to be heeded. You’re not buying a brand new car
S2000 is not cheap anymore, and nobody in their right mind would be okay writing one off. They are getting more expensive day by day. Cheap, reliable NA rwd is a mustang, and surprisingly e82 1 series BMW's, although these are def more work
Going into this video I was afraid that I was going to hear that I just need to throw some money at the Bugeye Subaru I already own. I'm not sure if I should be happy or disappointed that I was mostly right. Haha.
GREAT VIDEO: Some of this I was telling my teenagers, stressed the weight of a car. I wish I had a redo, lol. But I have a 2019 VW GTI with 7 speed DSG and LSD that I think meets most of this. I drove it on Barber Motorsports Park and had a blast. I have it modified with 347WHP 374FTLBS with coilovers. I'll be doing my first autocross soon. I'll be going to Road Atlanta for first time in July. I'll be posting videos of the runs since I have a better camera mount set up.
@@Teamoneilrally I just traded in the VW GTI for a 2006 Porsche Boxster S with 6 speed manual transmission. If you need a hard top go Cayman S. I know Porsche "expensive " but I don't think do. In 2005 they changed engines. The S version is track ready. Mid engine, RWD, balanced, around 2960 lbs and manual transmission. The safety roll bar and body structure was beefed up in 2005. Lots of parts available. Big plus with a used car many Porsche owners garage them and get scheduled maintenance. Unlike other cars that some young people just throw aftermarket parts at their cars. This car checks all your boxes.
You can't get more car for less money than a Nissan 350Z/G35. It's a little heavy and needs better shocks but the engine is stout, the balance is good and it can make 300HP with very little modification. I got mine for 6 grand, no regrets
Exciting times we're in as the original WRX's, Evo's, Celica's, Escorts etc. are importable now due to the 25 year rule. New ones coming online every year. They check every box except the "newish" category but there seems to be no shortage of lower mileage examples for sale by importers. Would be great to see some showing up on our rally stages and we can count on seeing more and more on the streets.
Dude my '98 audi A4 with the 1.8t and a 5 speed manual transmission has been the absolute best privateer stage car ive ever owned. Ive done quite a bit of work to get it where it is but, it was all cheap and it completely changed the car. All in i own the thing for $4800. Its fully set up and squared away. I threw every factory vacuum/ventilation, safety, electrical, and cooling component in the garbage to start with. I did a haltech elite 1500 stand alone ecu. It has a catch can and 3 vacuum lines. It has the factory exhaust manifold i cut up and welded a 3 inch vband to. I went to an externally gated gtx35 gen 3. It has totally custom Qa1 based coilovers, spherical suspension bushings, billet aluminum subframe bushings. It has 2006 rs4 brakes, certified roll cage, very significant weight reduction. The engine internals are bone stock. The differentials are bone stock and AMAZING. The axles are bone stock and invincible. The transmission is bone stock with a short shifter, twin disc clutch, single mass lightweight flywheel. The car weighs 2760 lbs with me in it and im 6'5 240 lbs. She also makes 324 wheel hp and 350 ft lbs of torque. Its way too fast to be honest its not necessary to have that kind of power. So i have it turned down to 285/300. Its perfect. I cannot stress to you enough how amazing this chassis is once you re-engineer all the stupid ass kraut bullshit. Its all so unnecessary. It honestly could have been one of the greatest cars ever built if it wasn't so over engineered. Its a 4 cylinder turbo mounted transverse with 3 differentials and a manual transmission. Yet it gets NO praise because the germans screwed it qll up with their auxiliary water pumps and insanely, pointlessly complex pcv, vacuum, and cooling design. I promise you, if you spend the $1800 to buy one and do what i did, youll wonder why it took so long to figure it out.
BMW E36 is the car I would say has the best bang for buck, a 325 or 328 has enough power with some cheap mods to have real fun in, and the cars are still pretty cheap & plentiful.
Feeling kinda validated with my WRX and 128i. I will probably be adding an LSD to the latter but it will remain primarily a street car, not an all out performance car.
First gen Cayman S fit the bill for me. Bought 6 years ago for $24k, under 30k miles on it. Extremely well balanced, dead reliable on track after you install a deep sump, and was surprisingly cheap to run.
I bought a 1995 Miata in 2008 for $4900 that had 91k miles and a hardtop. It's been my only car for the last 12 years and has 180k miles now. Adding everything up, including insurance, fuel, maintenance/repairs, all of the modding I've done to it, I've spent maybe around $20k on it. There are so few cars I'd rather have that it's not even worth thinking about.
Manual E36 with M50 Engine. Bullet proof once you take care of some basics...Can buy for $2000 and spend $1500 on new suspension, good clutch, brakes, upgrade your cooling system and you are good for years.
Current car is a '15 Fiesta ST with stage 1 tune. GREAT car! Needs a real LSD, and for track days (mine, at least) a better radiator. Next new-car purchase would be a Veloster N.
A good alternative to Subarus would be some Audis with real Quattro and not the fwd vw based awd systems. The drivelines are definitely stronger than Subaru stuff and the motors are less prone to failures. Definitely have to look hard and take your pick for a lighter weight chassis with a manual and probably a 4 cylinder turbo just for the weight. Honda fit is a great option for fwd, the chassis is extremely stiff and they commonly found with a manual and they're cheap and reliable with plenty of aftermarket support.
I feel really iffy about the BMW turbo motors for hard driving. Seems they may not be as well suited as the NA motors where. Fiesta ST was a good car for me but I find myself moving back towards Miata as I come closer to another fun car purchase. Would be my 4th Miata
mitsubishi lancer ralliart : it's newish, it's solid, good chassis, decent brakes, not expensive, turbo, awd, mechanical lsd front and rear and active center diff, you can cancel traction controls, got handbrake. And is pretty basic, with the only exception being the gearbox, that is a wet double clutch.
Nothing beats the Suzuki Samurai. I had thought it was a slugger but that was only until I bought one. Especially in slow corners it is way faster than the E39 BMW 528i I used to have. And the fun you'll have with this vehicle? Priceless!
@@coldmoonlight6361 I drive an 03 bugeye so I actually got to stop and have a chat with the guy. He just imported it to the US and plans on doing a full restoration
Bought a r53 mini cooper 4 months back. So far seems to be a pretty solid little car. Cast iron block, getrag transmission. I wanted a supercharged car because during the summer here in Texas the turbos dont like the heat. Im hoping the supercharger will do better.
I used the same filters as in this video, but also add comfort (as it'll also be a daily, not just a track car), and needs to have a button to FULLY disable driver aids, without having to pull fuses. I ended up with a BMW 645Ci with a 6-speed manual.
have not seen a MR-2 beeing mentioned in the comments, but definitely a contender for me at least. they're basically mid engined miata's. first and second generation are probably hard to find in good condition, but here in Europe the 3rd gen is currently as cheap as they will ever go.
I'm not suprised the Subarus were mentioned.. but, it still confuses me when we talk about reliability and hard driving. I owned a '10 WRX. Absolutely loved driving it.. But eneded up riding of it because of frustrations with reliability. Alot of these cars are notorious for "glass" transmissions and blown engines. I personally dont think the turbo 2.5 dose to well in its stock form.. it's going to need some extra cash
Yes, the STI has the stronger transmission.. however, the WRX also uses the turbo'd EJ, which was mated to the 5spd's found in the Impreza's. Which will fail if banged on.. The EJ itself, no matter what platform you have, is notorious for ringland failure under prolonged hard use. Dont get me wrong. I owned one myself and have been involved with the Subaru community for a very long time. A die hard fan since the Mcrae days. But, in the context of this video "reliable under pressure and inexpensive".. I just don't think it's always your best choice. Good luck finding a decent STI under 10g.. chances are, the owner/owners who had it before you also liked to drive the hell out of it.. you're left with the rebuild before long.
I think the point with Subaru is the drivetrain is good for racing not considering reliability. I’m not aware of many AWD systems that don’t rely on some type of electronic control.
Personally, I'm a huge fan of e36 and e46 bmws. I'm a bmw guy and stick to track days/auto X. Awesome cars, TONS of parts, GREAT chassis. awesome cars. You can get a solid e36 for ~3k. e46 closer to ~5k
well, except for the transmission not liking fast shifts, and the whole "No reason for less than 20mpg with under 300 HP" Looks like im getting 14.6 in my 2012...
@@ph1lthyvision oh ya, think I remember reading something like that in the manual. Just got confused with all the different terminology and crap. Like why they call it an "auto LSD" even tho it's not always active, and they say the truck won't turn well when it is active. Sounds like an artificial rear locker to me, not an lsd. Someday I gotta play with traction control. Been on a frozen lake a few times. First time in 4H, drove on fine, but struggled to get going again with trac cutting power. Next time out was in 4L, night and day difference. Found 4L second gear the happy place for driving on the lake. So nice that it shuts off all traction aids automatically. Last thing I need out there is the truck to cut power
I am currently building a 2003 (7th gen) Celica GTS as a track car. It has high km, but the engine and transmission are in perfect shape, so it can take some regular punishment. It is very light at 2500 lb, handles great, revs all the way up to 8200 rpm and has just enough power at 180 hp. The 7th gen Celica is not the most popular car from its era, but it's a proper sports car for very little $$. The main thing it needs is an upgraded oil pan and for the 2000-2002 models - some new lift bolts.
I find that a good competitor for the fiesta st is the Mazdaspeed 3. It does fit your requirements pretty well but is definitely at the cheaper end of of the spectrum. I have a 2008 ms3 that is decently reliable considering it is a 12 year old turbo car with 150,000 miles. It is a pretty raw car all around that will try to kill you if your not careful especially when considering torque steer.
The Speed3 is great, heavy duty motor mounts make a big difference. They break under full rally use, ask me how I know ruclips.net/video/ErybfmHEXj4/видео.html
I'd say 10s 0-60 is around where you want to be, but mostly look at the power, you don't want less than 100HP in a 1200kg car. 75HP is well enough in a 800kg car though. There is not such thing as too much mileage too, for the older cars, more mileage can mean a better car really- peopple who drive a lot generally take better care of the vehicle than the city drivers, but in general it's the condition of the perticular example that's important.
@david chappel completely stripped down, heavily modified? Otherwise, that's BS - their typical range is 6-8 seconds. And upper 5s to low 7s is pretty standard for a typical "quick" street car. Tires play a huge role in that. Don't cheap out.
I would ignore the mileage. Focus on the age. Most car issues are more age/maintenance related than mileage related, and modern engines can handle way more miles than we give them credit for. Horror stories about the 200k+ car that is falling apart are almost always about 20+ year old cars that haven't been maintained for 5-10 years.
In USA: From my driving and purchasing experience...Dodge Neon, Acura RSX, WV rabbit/golf (don't even need GTi), Any small honda Civic (Si preferred) , 2007-2014 Honda Fit, Ford Fiesta or Focus, Chevy Sonic
I bought a 2013 ford fiesta SE 5 speed certified used with 27k miles in 2014. Still have it. Mechanically sound with 215k miles. 120 horsepower and 118 torque for a 2,500 lb 4 door hatchback is not bad. You can seriously use all the power, and it can surprise people if you know how to drive it. Fast, no. But quick enough up to 50-70 mph. Have always taken care of oil changes on time and use Pennzoil platinum manufacturer oil weight, fluids, and general maintenance. I also use Seafoam as recommended in the fuel tank every oil change before I fill up with gas, crankcase 50-100 miles before the oil change, and intake every 50k miles to keep engine clean of carbon deposits, which reduces wear a little over time, and helps retain the rediculous gas mileage with the cleaner engine over time. Not necessary, but I do use 91/93 Shell nitro gasoline as points add up for cheeper gas, and the detergents do help with cleaner burn and retain better gas mileage over time. Upgraded suspension to ford performance specifically for the standard fiesta which drops the front by 1 inch, and back by 1.5 inches, $230 for all four corners. Keeps some of the everyday comfort, but stiffens the spring and damping just enough to throw around corners to handle that much better. Still have the 15 inch steelies, and use a great street/track tire Dunlop Direzza DZ102 205/15 55. $80 a tire, great wet and dry traction for the money. And just some dimple and slotted rotors with ceramic break pads which all together another $200. I prefer rear wheel drive and did own a 93 240sx, but maintenance nightmare, lol. I am looking forward to the 2022 Subaru BRZ as my next daily driver, but still awaiting some details and a test drive.
I went with the Focus St instead of the Fiesta St for the extra room and power (also didn't go for the RS because out of price range and head gasket). I've never driven a fwd car that felt so much like driving on rails! It's an amazing daily and rocks mountain roads whenever I want.
@@bobbybooshay5854 torque steer: it's there but not terrible when in sport mode (which I drove it in exclusively). Understeer: non existent in my experience. Actually, pretty easy to get it to oversteer instead (the way Ford made it)
I just got a 2019 Fiesta se a few months ago and it’s great! Yeah it only has 120hp but like you were saying it’s well balanced and I have a lot of fun with it(mostly because of the proper handbrake)...it only has 1300 miles so far and I’ve definitely pushed its limits and it’s running like a champ so far! It’s definitely reassuring to hear you say that it’s a great car to get started with rallying! (Wish I could’ve afforded the ST, but I’m saving up for an STI so this’ll do in the meantime)! Keep the great content coming!!
If you can find some for a decent price with less than 100k miles send me their way lol. Up in the rust belt any is300 with a stick either had some ridiculous amount of miles or they wanted like $12k-$15k for a 70k mile 15 year old car
Mini Cooper S R53, preferably 2004.5 through 2006. Excellent go kart car, supercharged, 6 speed manual, very good in auto cross and fun to work on with a lot of options to upgrade. Cheap too. Not so reliable but all the corks are well known and easily fixable.
Mk5 rabbit/golf makes a wonderful rally cross car. Maybe with some mods like wavetrac lsd would do well on a stage. Prior maintenance is a factor but nost of the 07k (5 cylinder 20v) motors are extremely robust and reliable and have adequate power for a 2wd car.
I had a few Nissan B14's (1995-1999) 200sx and sentra. Both with the sr20de.. Freakin go karts, and cheap af to fix/maintain.. Would blow the doors off audi's and bmw's in the canyons of co... Have since swapped in the sr20vet... It's fun
Oddball suggestion: 2006-2012 is350 checks all the boxes, maybe a bit portly but lots of power. Also outside of the rust belt I think you can easily go older, racing in Texas it's pretty rare to see cars newer than 20 years old.
Volkwagon Jetta 2004 1.8t fits the tag, its newish, LSD is a common MOD, deletes are easy, its efficient, has a hand brake, very solid little car and can be found cheap with low millage in good shape if you look.
2019 Suzuki Swift sport FWD that weighs 975 kg dry real handbrake, no LSD... seems a sound choice on paper but from 2020 it became a mild hybrid adding weight and complexity...
Great info..and I have taken only some to heart.."94 suzuki swift gti..not new but it is light..rattley but solid..performance is ok when the revs are high(still pretty slow)..kms per L are sensational.. and it has a proper handbrake ..and ..I think for everyone out there..it's gotta be fun to drive!..Thats the biggy.
This is very sound advice. But I think the year metric might be too harsh. I still think 90's stuff is absolutely viable still and you can save a lot doing it. My 88' Supra should be junk by that graph, but with some fixing up/upgrading, it's been hands down the best handling and driving car I've ever used by a huge margin. It's 34 years old now, but it's knocking the socks off cheaper newer offerings.
fantastic car but i think the age & value alone holds these cars back, let alone the cost your gonna spend restoring those old parts if you find a decent enough one for a good price
Focus ST and VW Golf / GTI are good for driving and the VW have a lot of parts availability. For cars made after about 2012, a question is, can you turn off the stability control without ripping out a wiring harness and re-chipping the car, rendering it into an off road/race only car.
I own a car built in 1987. No window motors or central locking that can break, Rubbers are cheap to replace, everything is easy to acces and maintenance friendly. Golf mk2 5-door with glorious 75 weber-horsepowers. No ABS, AC or power steering to worry about, too. And the engine survived 10 mins of full throttle at 165kph on the autobahn so I think its safe to race. If ya want performance I reccomend a VR6 swap. Easily doable under 5K and it turns the car into a monster.
Fiesta ST owner, but I think the 10th gen Civic Sport/Si now needs a mention. Costs are coming down since this video was made. Reliable, great mpgs, 6mt, Si has an LSD and lots of available parts. Plus, you can stuff big tires under there (up to 245s)
![Natanael Cano - Amor Eterno [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EO4prCs6WpM/mqdefault.jpg)
This channel is such a treasure trove of information that gets overlooked for not being overproduced drivel with obnoxious thumbnails.
Hey, thanks for the kind words!
@@Teamoneilrally Please don't change
This. Never change.
@@Teamoneilrally Wyatt definitely has a teaching style that works!
You could say this channel is more of a danish
I really wish they made Honda's like they did in the 90s
Yep. Late 80's through late 90's were their best years.
@@jameshaulenbeek5931 until takata years i reckon, in australia some of these cars are going to be banned from being registered
@@pianoman3214 not even anything to do with that. Some of the platforms they came out with after that were just garbage.
2001-2005 civic
2002-2008 accord
After those years, those models got a bit better, but that's when they really tried to cheap out on manufacturing costs.
I say when they went to rear sway bar and macpherson struts is when I lost hope in hondas
@@capnvariance Dual wishbone suspension was the best. Trading low torque and high revs for more torque with lower revs was understandable at the time, but they just aren't as fun.
This is just good general car enthusiast buying advice we all could use hearing
Pyric so true, I wont listen but your right
Based on 10 years experience as a high perf driving instructor on tracks around the northeast, here are my thoughts:
1) Most common trackday cars by far: Miata (all), E36, C5 & 6. To lesser extent Fiesta, Focus and VW hatches. Price, parts support and reliability all contribute to popularity (along with the driving fun of course)
2) popular but seem to be really fragile are the Subaru’s - they break far to often compared to above. An interesting observation considering O’Neil rallies them...?
3) The FRS sibs are a more recent addition to track days and so far so good - they seem to be holding up really well and are a great driver’s car
4) my track day only car of choice is an Ariel Atom SRA: $30K used, zero driver’s aids (even steering and brakes are manual), ~1400 lbs, honda drive train, 1 set of tires and pads per year, rotors ever 2 years. Literally put gas in it and drive. Virtually no maintenance.
one possibility here regarding #2 is that a lot of track-driven Subarus are highly boosted, whereas the Oneil fleet is likely mostly na, and definitely not highly modified in the power department.
The 2.5 with a turbo sucks basically. Here is the UK and over in Japan we have the 2.0l and it's miles better for reliability.
The main problem with Subarus is the rust. On mitsubishis the rust is even worse as well.
I don't know if it would be allowed, but if you are in the USA and your sti needs a new engine, you should seriously consider getting a 2.0l turbo with the twins roll turbo from Japan. If you give it a mild remap and set the limiter to 7k it should be rock solid.
Thanks for sharing 👍
Been (no perf) driving a BRZ for 7 years now, excellent balance as a driver’s car and a daily. Weight is spectacular, reliability is solid. Half-decent tires and a touch more power goes a LONG way!
Many Spec Miatas are here on the west for drivers as a first step out of karting. About 10k for a safe race ready car. They're great for learning the skills needed for your Ariel Atom.
Miata might not be a rally car but it is a real Driver's car for sure
Some competitions will only let you rally your Miata if you weld in a roof in addition to the normal cage.
Even with a lift kit, they feel gutless in the mud.
Yeah, any stage rally, rules state must have come from the factory with permanent roof. I have a v8 miata, great car and tons of fun. Cheap vw golf or b5 a4, wreck it, leave it where it lies and repeat
Also, a Skoda Fabia might be a good option.
Oh there are plenty of Miata rally cars out there
Too old, for this guy apparently. Doesn’t stop literally thousands of Miata drivers though.
at 24:00 he basically sais "go mental its a rental" about his own cars
Yes, but they build that into the price they charge :)
Amazing coverage, truly useful conceptual advice is rare on RUclips.
At the 5k mark... Old 5speed subaru. 2005 is one of the best NA years. Drive by wire(ECU Flash capable), No AVLS, return fuel system. Super easy to work on, cheap parts. LSD's readily available. No traction control.
Why wouldn’t you want AVLS? I love my 2006 5 speed Impreza 😢
@@nabox1435 I have a 2006 5 speed NA Impreza as well and that thing loves to pull to redline. Literally everyone that has driven it comments how fun it is to drive. Everyone describes it as "Zippy" lol.
Yeah I got an '06 outback and pretty much nothing happens before 4k. Sort of like a Honda, slow as hell and then it kicks in and gets a little more respectable
I texted with you about a month ago on here about this. I was asking about the Fiesta 5spd vs the 2003ish ford Focus SVT... i went with the 2014 Ford Fiesta SE thanks to much of what you are saying here and I'm glad I did. THANKS BROTHER.
It's all set up now for the rallycross season
Awesome!!! Yeah that's a solid call, glad it worked out for you. Not breaking/stripping any nuts and bolts alone makes it worth it!
@@Teamoneilrally very true. Its been a blast getting it ready for the season. Thanks again
@@johnnyturbo8460 5 speed was crucial - the Fiesta (and Focus) automatics are crap!!
@@shouldbeasy9721 yup, very true.
Fiesta SE are so reliable but the rear suspension is a bit too smooth. Nice to see someone who doesn't think Fiesta are crap.
I got into rallycross last year. I was looking for a budget car. I found a 99 legacy gt 5spd for 700 bucks. I put some new struts on it and a skid plate. I have been beating on the car for over a year now and haven't had any issues surprisingly. and it has been really competitive in stock awd class.
Really good way to go, they're solid cars that are often overlooked.
A Legacy GT for 700 dollars? Where the hell did you find such a deal? The mystical land of 3 years ago?
Wyatt should be doing car reviews for world-class magazines and automotive media. Great info as always👍
I like this with the exception of age. while I know logically it makes sense to go newer, the simplicity that comes from older rides (like a 90s miata) is just invaluable when something does break. What I look for is a good running engine and no chassis rust (body rust is fine its getting dented anyway) and everything else i can fix. This is anecdotal, but I had a corvette 09 that had an airbag sensor go bad during cold weather only. Thats just a pain that wont appear in something simpler like a miata. If you are comfortable working on cars, or are looking to get comfortable, I still highly recommend going old, cheap and simple since hard driving in whatever you are hooning in is gunna cause damage over time. THEN move on to bigger stuff, newer stuff, or simply more complex cars with your basic mechanical knowledge gained from an older ride.
if you arent interested in working on your own stuff though, for sure go as new as possible with what you can afford, so you can beat on it every day
So glad i was able to get my 86 Mercedes Cosworths for less than 2k each. 5spd dogleg with mechanical LSD. Been very reliable and fun the last 8 years.
Where at ?
Thats awesome where is this taking place haha
i have a 1991 mercedes 190e 2.3 non cosworth automatic and it's damn fun to drive even with no power
Now they go for 20k :(
(I assume you didn’t buy mint condition ones though)
@ Not mint but not awful. Neither has rust, one had a fist sized dent in the rear quarter that someone repaired and i didnt even noticed until i stripped out the trunk years later. That one has 135k miles, Is stripped out, and is sitting on eibach springs and brembos from the 500e/evo2.
The other one had a pieced together and crappy welded exhaust that I replaced for a few hundred dollars. It also had a high idle/vacuum leaks but its good now. That car has like 240k miles. AC doesnt work. I pulled the dash recently since Im at home for this virus outbreak so i can finally work on it. Its almost all original except i got rid of the SLS(for now) and installed roll up windows on all 4 doors.
Biggest negative is the clear coats have been slowly peeling since before I bought them and its getting ugly. Im in socal but not too close to the beach.
Sucks about the market on them, cheapest Ive seen is 2 months ago someone had 3 non running rust buckets for 4k in Kansas City but the ad is gone now.
I daily an frs right now and I agree with your recommendation. Amazing car for the money. I would also recommend the compact and subcompact Japanese cars like the corolla XRS or the civic SI. They are very forgiving, affordable, and unbreakable. Good cars to learn on.
Not driftable
@@hansen370 you know that FWD rally is a thing right? Weight transfer and some handbrake will do the job...
Any year Honda Fit/Jazz is a great little hatch honestly. Decent performance numbers (for what it is), light, manual, some trims have LSDs (aftermarket ones are available), good MPG, cheap, and pretty sturdy for the most part. There's even a Honda Fit Spec racing series that's pretty entertaining to watch. I've seen one in Autocross that was hanging with Miatas and well built BMW's. Wheels and tires are fairly small which help cut costs too. I don't know how good the aftermarket is for them but thankfully they're fairly simple to modify for most things on it and some of the more popular engine options have good aftermarket support. And hey, VTEC bro.
It's a real bummer that Ford has decided to stop selling cars (other than the Mustang) in North America. The new Fiesta ST looks very cool and comes from the factory with a mech LSD.
W8, was not Ford an USA producer? You cant buy a Ford Focus in USA? xD
@@szaka9395 The Mustang is the only car that Ford will sell in Canada and US for the 2021 model year going forward.
@@szaka9395 they are losing money on CARS but selling a lot of TRUCKS in USA
I have loved using my 09 Honda Fit sport because it has funneled through this criteria all except balance is a little lower on the power but it rides corners like a beast and as far as i know doesn't have a front lsd. Highly recommend it for a rally car if anyone is wondering 😁
I'm probably getting a Lexus IS200/Toyota Altezza. RWD, manual, some have an LSD, and enough power for me. Also very reliable.
i have an o4 blobsti ideal for canadian mountain life spirited and willing in the snow and dirt... the rust is a constant battle is the biggest issue. nearing a decade of ownership reasonably satified. 7/10
I raced RWD V8's in the 80's and 90's in both 1/4 mile and track... I drove an AWD Porsche Turbo... And now I am racing a Mazdaspeed 3... And I don't see any being better, a good driver adjusts... AWD is faster but leaks more power than the other two... RWD is fun to control under steer and oversteer with power more than just speed vectors, and it has a minor power leak... FWD is more forgiving yet faster than the RWD, leaks less power than the other two and if Mustangs are fun at launch so is the torque steer of a 400+ bhp FWD
Buying a sports car has some advantages, the oem suspension and springs are more solid than the same regular sedan or hatch so you can leave that to upgrade till last. Also the engine platform is better than a regular version with smaller size engine.
The rest, starting with tires, is probably the same... A regular Civic from a Mustang.
Handling -> tires.... TIRES! Upgrading springs with out the best tires is nonsensical. Brake pads are super important, I haven't seen a stock brand which is anything but mediocre, all brands!
And the driver is the most important part... Can anyone here remain cool when a "fast car" revs up and launches at a light on the street? No? Then you shouldn't be driving a fast car at all... Cool mind, calculations, risk assessment.... The more the better.
A lot of people run '00-'05 Honda S2000s as track cars. They can be found between $10k and $20k, weigh 2800 lbs with 50:50 weight distribution and double wishbone suspension on all four corners, 240 horsepower, reliable NA 4 cylinder, 6-speed manual transmission, ABS only, no TC or stability control, cable throttle, mechanical LSD, cable handbrake, and 20-24 MPG.
Good choice but they are getting rarer and more in demand... Sadly 😟
Good luck with the diff… it’s good for 400hp in a 2000lb Miata. In a 2800lb 240hp car you start having issues when you start pushing the car, especially when combined with power adders, and there’s no east bolt-in upgrade. Plus the hardtop market for S2ks is legitimately retarded, but I guarantee you’ll want one for track use. You could get two Miatas for an s2k hard top :/
Oh and thank you so much guys your lessons are amazing and I've improved so much I beat a 535i with a crv and I hope that in a few years I'll be able to fly out and take the whole course, keep it up guys your amazing!!
I love your videos, The information and insight that you share from driving techniques to decision makings is amazing. And you explain in a straightforward and understandable way!
Thanks Petar!
How is there not a single comment about 350Z, G35, 370Z and G37? Depending on budget, theyre such great bargains for any performance driving on pavement. That plus they pass through every filter in on the board with ease.
This is a Rally channel.
I would add 2005 to 2008 Audi A4s, with 2.0T engines and the 6-speed manual. Decent power, decent all wheel drive, nice balance and brakes, has an actual hand e-brake, and be had for $5k to $9k. Had one when I lived in Connecticut, and nothing is more fun that sliding an A4 around turns in the winter with a dedicated set of snow tires.
The Torsen center differential is pretty good, it's basically 50:50 by default but can automatically apportion up to 75% of the torque to the front or rear. That variability can make it a little unpredictable, but it's also a lot of fun when you get the hang of it
paddyboy73 I have one! Auto, unfortunately but still fun.
Yes. I have several quattros with a rear lsd they are next level imo!
You guys are so cool. Ive only driven a Honda Civic in autocross ONCE years ago, but I still love learning all this stuff even though I'll probably never be on a track again
Get back out there!
Every car enthusiast, whether tarmac or gravel, should put Team O'Neil's Rally School on their bucket list. Seriously, the skills you learn on the course will improve your ability no matter what or where you drive.
My gold standard is the 1989 Peugeot 405. It was light, cheap, had great motors, fade free brakes and you could heal and toe with ease. It was FWD but really responded to left foot braking , the handling was balanced and the ride was excellent. The best part was the steering feel. Steering rack was mounted without rubber to the chassis and the power steering assist via was a rubber mounted actuator. You could feel what the tires were doing all the time. It was very confidence inspiring. It was slow and the limits were low, so you could drive it fast and nobody would notice. I always wanted to drive the piss out of that car and it would take it well. My first/last one had 290k+ miles on it, with the original clutch (albeit nearly toast). It autox, TSD rallied, camped and carried my new born kids. Highly underrated. Finally sold it in 2019. Currently driving a Mazdaspeed Protege for fun and TSD rally, Sicon iA to commute.
S2000 is my favorite for canyon carving
Maaa boooy
Great handling but I feel like they are pretty over inflated. $19K is a lot for a 15 year old soft top with non-existent underside areo and a torque deficiency. Definitely a drivers car though.
@@hiighcalibre glad I didn't pay 19 for mine. I have never driven a car with under side areo ...... must be nice.
I love my $4,000 03 wrx. Only issues are some of the aftermarket parts the previous owner installed like $199 coilovers, cheap wastegate and front mount setup. It also burns oil, but at least it had a new clutch and newer transmission.
Basically he's laying out a Jalopnik Nice Price or Crack Pipe in plain language.
Porsche 987 cayman and boxsters are excellent track day cars, and you'd end up with a lot of car for your money as well.
I picked up a 2003 impreza wrx for 3800$ and with a bit of time and about double that in mods/maitinace I have a very fun/ safe car that I belive meet all the requirements here especially for western Montana. Love your channel
Great part of the world to have that car! Have fun with it and check out www.americanrallyassociation.org/idahorally
Peugeot 106, very cheap, very light and enough power, amazing for a first bash car, to see if it's really for you.
I had 2 of them. Excellent beater cars. If you roll it, another one is cheaper than getting the old one out of the ditch.
What engine choices would you suggest for the 106? I'm eyeing the Saxo VTS/106 GTi for the medium term future when I get some cash saved up but they're approaching C2 VTS prices so I'm not sure if it's worth it going for that old of a car. The C2 is much uglier but I don't care about it that much hahahah
Are those sold in the United States?
coscorrodrift Saxo vts is much, MUCH better car than C2, not even the same league. Also much simpler car if anything goes wrong mechanicly, C2 can be a propper nightmare when it breaks down.
Walter Johnson nope
I live in Germany and got a 2018 Fiesta ST (not available in North America) . It has a lsd from the factory and is a pleasure to drive.
‘18 Fiesta ST’s were sold in America. Not with an LSD though
@@frightenedsoul No, that's the old model. The new Fiesta isn't sold in the US and Australia
Reiner Wahnsinn No, 2018 was the last year. I know because I live in America and I purchased a 2018 from an American Ford dealership brand new.
@@frightenedsoul We have a different model. Compare the 2 pages. www.ford.com/cars/fiesta/models/fiesta-st/ and www.ford.de/fahrzeuge/ford-fiesta-st?searchid=ppc:Search_DE(deu)%7C%5BAO%5D_Retail_SD_Nameplate_Fiesta:ST_CPPI_EUR%7CShp-T2%7CExact:Fiesta-ST-Exact:fiesta%20st:e:m:g:GOOGLE&gclid=Cj0KCQjw3qzzBRDnARIsAECmryoizbSY8qm8Nyz4x2jPDq9xaDX-C_BroOYrlwj6SzYtIDDV1hoCSPAaAnFVEALw_wcB
I live in the US and got a 2015 Fiesta ST. I was so excited when I saw the pictures and specs on the new 2018 Fiesta ST with the lsd, 3 cylinder engine, redesigned suspension and much better interior. I was heartbroken when the news came out that it wouldn’t be sold here. When I saw 2018 Fiesta ST’s being sold here that were the older generation, I thought dealerships were just selling 2017’s as 2018’s, but then when I saw 2019’s for sale I realized that wasn’t the case. Our cars are made in Mexico as opposed to the newer generation which is made in Europe. The Mexican factory just kept cranking out the older generation for a couple years.
Since I love my Fiesta ST so much and couldn’t get the newer generation, I drove almost 14 hours to Mountune USA (in SoCal) to have them install an lsd and a larger intercooler with a tune.
I have a 2008 Nissan 350z HR, I haven’t gone on the track with it but I have definitely put it through hell and it’s held up pretty great. I wouldn’t get a DE due to it’s known issues, but the HR’s are reliable sub-100k miles. I’ve driven long distances in the snow, run it 150 mph+ on a few occasions and 130+ more than I can count. Great reliable affordable car.
Good in corners as well, forgot to mention it’s overall performance. If you get the grand touring package it comes with brembo brakes, huge positive for long term hard driving.
RWD king imho is the C6 Corvette. Early years are under 20k, and you can find 2010-13 Grand Sports with under 50k miles for under $30k. Rock solid LS, real diff, 6 speed, traction control is easily disabled, real grip-rip handbrake, supercar level handling and enough power you won’t outgrow it. Yes they require more discipline to drive fast, but that’s the idea right?
(Bonus) huge aftermarket community. horsepower? Sky is the limit and relatively affordable and very reliable.
2011-2014 mustang v6. Yes I said v6.
Clutch based Limited slip? Check.
300hp? Check.
6-speed manual? Check.
Real handbrake? Check.
30 mpg on highway? Check.
Can be found for under 10k? Check.
The only problem you may run into is that it is on the heavy side. Everything else about it fits into the criteria.
I daily drive one (:
Modern v6's are underrated imo.
POS Ceck.
My 2000 Jetta VR6 has been great (bought 2 years ago). Bought for $600 with no real issues, added Wilwood and GLI brakes, ABS/AST disabled, coilovers, race motor mounts, light flywheel and pulleys, intake/exhaust/tune, Recaros/Harness, and some maintenance (with best fluids possible). $7000 in and about 7000 great miles of death rides and events so far...
06-11 Civic Si for a FWD car. 200hp, 8k rpm redline, 6 speed w/ a LSD, coupe or sedan, bulletproof.
Pretty much my thought process when I picked up my 09 BMW 128i.
And here i am with my 97 Land Cruiser with 320,000 miles that I daily and beat on the trails. Granted, you are totally right about age being the main problem. Little things like seals and wire brittlement and what not.
2007 Mitsubishi Galant. Has 233k miles, and we still beat it every weekend up the canyon or in the desert. Has never let me down. Super durable and has decent stock suspension.
The best driver's car is a Manual Transmission, Naturally Aspirated, RWD, Gasoline/Petrol, Durable, Reliable, $30,000 Thirty year old Toyota Corolla Hatchback AE86.
Just kidding, Other than that the FF Honda Civic Type R, Si, and Sport Manual are pretty nice. If you like AWD a Subaru WRX and STi, Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution, or Ford Focus RS are fun.
Very Cheap RWD MR2 and S2000 are cool too but the rule of old needs to be heeded. You’re not buying a brand new car
And the rwd mid engine mr2 ?
@@onionman500_m8 their mid rear.
@@2JZDestroyer fixed and thanks
S2000 is not cheap anymore, and nobody in their right mind would be okay writing one off. They are getting more expensive day by day. Cheap, reliable NA rwd is a mustang, and surprisingly e82 1 series BMW's, although these are def more work
Going into this video I was afraid that I was going to hear that I just need to throw some money at the Bugeye Subaru I already own. I'm not sure if I should be happy or disappointed that I was mostly right. Haha.
GREAT VIDEO: Some of this I was telling my teenagers, stressed the weight of a car. I wish I had a redo, lol. But I have a 2019 VW GTI with 7 speed DSG and LSD that I think meets most of this. I drove it on Barber Motorsports Park and had a blast. I have it modified with 347WHP 374FTLBS with coilovers. I'll be doing my first autocross soon. I'll be going to Road Atlanta for first time in July. I'll be posting videos of the runs since I have a better camera mount set up.
Sounds like a great setup!!!
cant disable abs and left foot braking not allowed in wv and audi it will cut engine power
@@Teamoneilrally cant disable abs and left foot braking not allowed in wv and audi it will cut engine power
@@Teamoneilrally I just traded in the VW GTI for a 2006 Porsche Boxster S with 6 speed manual transmission. If you need a hard top go Cayman S. I know Porsche "expensive " but I don't think do. In 2005 they changed engines. The S version is track ready. Mid engine, RWD, balanced, around 2960 lbs and manual transmission. The safety roll bar and body structure was beefed up in 2005. Lots of parts available. Big plus with a used car many Porsche owners garage them and get scheduled maintenance. Unlike other cars that some young people just throw aftermarket parts at their cars. This car checks all your boxes.
You can't get more car for less money than a Nissan 350Z/G35. It's a little heavy and needs better shocks but the engine is stout, the balance is good and it can make 300HP with very little modification. I got mine for 6 grand, no regrets
Honda Type-Rs generally hold up pretty well
Exciting times we're in as the original WRX's, Evo's, Celica's, Escorts etc. are importable now due to the 25 year rule. New ones coming online every year. They check every box except the "newish" category but there seems to be no shortage of lower mileage examples for sale by importers. Would be great to see some showing up on our rally stages and we can count on seeing more and more on the streets.
A miata can be used as a rally car if fitted with a proper rollbar/rollcage.
in stage rally? with what organizations ?
@@RingerRacing in no organisation or stage rally, I just said that a miata can be made safe for rallying with proper modifications
@@madmax9009 but it cannot be used as a rally car for stage rally with nasa rally sport or ARA, - to my knowledge
Dude my '98 audi A4 with the 1.8t and a 5 speed manual transmission has been the absolute best privateer stage car ive ever owned. Ive done quite a bit of work to get it where it is but, it was all cheap and it completely changed the car. All in i own the thing for $4800. Its fully set up and squared away. I threw every factory vacuum/ventilation, safety, electrical, and cooling component in the garbage to start with. I did a haltech elite 1500 stand alone ecu. It has a catch can and 3 vacuum lines. It has the factory exhaust manifold i cut up and welded a 3 inch vband to. I went to an externally gated gtx35 gen 3. It has totally custom Qa1 based coilovers, spherical suspension bushings, billet aluminum subframe bushings. It has 2006 rs4 brakes, certified roll cage, very significant weight reduction. The engine internals are bone stock. The differentials are bone stock and AMAZING. The axles are bone stock and invincible. The transmission is bone stock with a short shifter, twin disc clutch, single mass lightweight flywheel. The car weighs 2760 lbs with me in it and im 6'5 240 lbs. She also makes 324 wheel hp and 350 ft lbs of torque. Its way too fast to be honest its not necessary to have that kind of power. So i have it turned down to 285/300. Its perfect. I cannot stress to you enough how amazing this chassis is once you re-engineer all the stupid ass kraut bullshit. Its all so unnecessary. It honestly could have been one of the greatest cars ever built if it wasn't so over engineered. Its a 4 cylinder turbo mounted transverse with 3 differentials and a manual transmission. Yet it gets NO praise because the germans screwed it qll up with their auxiliary water pumps and insanely, pointlessly complex pcv, vacuum, and cooling design. I promise you, if you spend the $1800 to buy one and do what i did, youll wonder why it took so long to figure it out.
I have a 2020 Hyundai Veloster N and I absolutely love it
BMW E36 is the car I would say has the best bang for buck, a 325 or 328 has enough power with some cheap mods to have real fun in, and the cars are still pretty cheap & plentiful.
Not anymore unfortunately, E46 is more cost efficient. Still keeping my E36 M3 though
@@timpulko1743 I had a look, you can still get 328i E36's for under 10 grand, but yes a lot more than the days when they were 3 grand a plenty !
Feeling kinda validated with my WRX and 128i. I will probably be adding an LSD to the latter but it will remain primarily a street car, not an all out performance car.
Hey i absolutly love your videos, please keep doing these ❤
Hi from Spain! ‘17 outback daily driver, ‘02 wrx track, ‘04 sti touge / fun / weekend car
The WRXs and STis are quite expensive here in Spain though, I've never seen one under like 12k€
coscorrodrift Agree. They are rare and subaru is not a popular brand, in the US it’s the opposite so they become quite affordable
First gen Cayman S fit the bill for me. Bought 6 years ago for $24k, under 30k miles on it. Extremely well balanced, dead reliable on track after you install a deep sump, and was surprisingly cheap to run.
I bought a 1995 Miata in 2008 for $4900 that had 91k miles and a hardtop. It's been my only car for the last 12 years and has 180k miles now.
Adding everything up, including insurance, fuel, maintenance/repairs, all of the modding I've done to it, I've spent maybe around $20k on it.
There are so few cars I'd rather have that it's not even worth thinking about.
Manual E36 with M50 Engine. Bullet proof once you take care of some basics...Can buy for $2000 and spend $1500 on new suspension, good clutch, brakes, upgrade your cooling system and you are good for years.
A guy on Jalopnik rallied his. Cost him a lot, take a look at the articles.
Current car is a '15 Fiesta ST with stage 1 tune. GREAT car! Needs a real LSD, and for track days (mine, at least) a better radiator.
Next new-car purchase would be a Veloster N.
Thanks so much for doing this video. Super informative and helpful
A good alternative to Subarus would be some Audis with real Quattro and not the fwd vw based awd systems. The drivelines are definitely stronger than Subaru stuff and the motors are less prone to failures. Definitely have to look hard and take your pick for a lighter weight chassis with a manual and probably a 4 cylinder turbo just for the weight. Honda fit is a great option for fwd, the chassis is extremely stiff and they commonly found with a manual and they're cheap and reliable with plenty of aftermarket support.
No handbrake
@@fbomb3930 what?
Most audis past 2006 have electronic handbrakes, one of the criteria to filter out according to this vid@@fzj8022
I feel really iffy about the BMW turbo motors for hard driving. Seems they may not be as well suited as the NA motors where. Fiesta ST was a good car for me but I find myself moving back towards Miata as I come closer to another fun car purchase. Would be my 4th Miata
mitsubishi lancer ralliart : it's newish, it's solid, good chassis, decent brakes, not expensive, turbo, awd, mechanical lsd front and rear and active center diff, you can cancel traction controls, got handbrake. And is pretty basic, with the only exception being the gearbox, that is a wet double clutch.
I just bought an Evo 4 which is littered with problems, I cant believe how cheap the 10s are
Ralliart stock sus is soft upgrade your suspension and its fun to drive.
@@m112a Rally cars usually have softer suspensions.. but sure
I like the new whiteboard guys, it looks nice!
This content is golden, great advices
11-14 Mustang with the coyote 5.0. Stick axle so maybe not the fastest around a bumpy track, but a blast anyway!
Nothing beats the Suzuki Samurai. I had thought it was a slugger but that was only until I bought one. Especially in slow corners it is way faster than the E39 BMW 528i I used to have. And the fun you'll have with this vehicle? Priceless!
I bought a 2011 STI Hatch, paid too much for it but I do not regret it one bit. I drove Skylines, RX-7s, 350Zs etc and none of them could compare.
why do u like it better than those other offerings?
1995 Subaru Legacy AWD
She's underrated.
Never quit.
Saw a guy in a right hand drive Legacy in Wisconsin today absolute legend
@@Grooove_e I've seen one or two in my life(28). I give a thumbs up as to not freak them out with my staring and ear to ear smile.
@@coldmoonlight6361 I drive an 03 bugeye so I actually got to stop and have a chat with the guy. He just imported it to the US and plans on doing a full restoration
Bought a r53 mini cooper 4 months back. So far seems to be a pretty solid little car. Cast iron block, getrag transmission. I wanted a supercharged car because during the summer here in Texas the turbos dont like the heat. Im hoping the supercharger will do better.
I used the same filters as in this video, but also add comfort (as it'll also be a daily, not just a track car), and needs to have a button to FULLY disable driver aids, without having to pull fuses. I ended up with a BMW 645Ci with a 6-speed manual.
Citroen C2 VTS - It's a dirt cheap FWD car that's essentially a new Saxo. It has a huge aftermarket support and pretty decent specs for its price
Gabriel Rej where is it cheap?!
have not seen a MR-2 beeing mentioned in the comments, but definitely a contender for me at least. they're basically mid engined miata's. first and second generation are probably hard to find in good condition, but here in Europe the 3rd gen is currently as cheap as they will ever go.
If you want an Escort Cosworth in good condition you'll pay a lot. It's way cheaper to buy a dedicated track/rally car. And something else as a daily.
I'm not suprised the Subarus were mentioned.. but, it still confuses me when we talk about reliability and hard driving. I owned a '10 WRX. Absolutely loved driving it.. But eneded up riding of it because of frustrations with reliability.
Alot of these cars are notorious for "glass" transmissions and blown engines. I personally dont think the turbo 2.5 dose to well in its stock form.. it's going to need some extra cash
Turbo 2.5 Subaru is an STI don't you realize that? STI has a very sturdy transmission
Yes, the STI has the stronger transmission.. however, the WRX also uses the turbo'd EJ, which was mated to the 5spd's found in the Impreza's. Which will fail if banged on.. The EJ itself, no matter what platform you have, is notorious for ringland failure under prolonged hard use.
Dont get me wrong. I owned one myself and have been involved with the Subaru community for a very long time. A die hard fan since the Mcrae days. But, in the context of this video "reliable under pressure and inexpensive".. I just don't think it's always your best choice. Good luck finding a decent STI under 10g.. chances are, the owner/owners who had it before you also liked to drive the hell out of it.. you're left with the rebuild before long.
I think the point with Subaru is the drivetrain is good for racing not considering reliability. I’m not aware of many AWD systems that don’t rely on some type of electronic control.
Personally, I'm a huge fan of e36 and e46 bmws. I'm a bmw guy and stick to track days/auto X. Awesome cars, TONS of parts, GREAT chassis. awesome cars.
You can get a solid e36 for ~3k. e46 closer to ~5k
Subaru!!! Great AWD cars. 02-07 are the best years for WRX or STI.
Do all the 2007 WRX Sport wagons have a LSD from the factory?
@@markthibault8579 Yes
@@HOOD2358 What type of LSD(s) are in that model? Mech? Viscous? Other?
@@markthibault8579 viscous I believe
@@HOOD2358 they are viscous
damn. just found out my 2011 tacoma 6 speed is a racecar lol.
well, except for the transmission not liking fast shifts, and the whole "No reason for less than 20mpg with under 300 HP"
Looks like im getting 14.6 in my 2012...
Well, cant turn off skid control is a bummer. Vsc etc... kicks back on above 30.
@@ph1lthyvision oh ya, think I remember reading something like that in the manual. Just got confused with all the different terminology and crap. Like why they call it an "auto LSD" even tho it's not always active, and they say the truck won't turn well when it is active. Sounds like an artificial rear locker to me, not an lsd.
Someday I gotta play with traction control. Been on a frozen lake a few times. First time in 4H, drove on fine, but struggled to get going again with trac cutting power. Next time out was in 4L, night and day difference. Found 4L second gear the happy place for driving on the lake. So nice that it shuts off all traction aids automatically. Last thing I need out there is the truck to cut power
I think my father's '98 Hilux ticked all the boxes plus is a two door, real sports vehicle there
I am currently building a 2003 (7th gen) Celica GTS as a track car. It has high km, but the engine and transmission are in perfect shape, so it can take some regular punishment. It is very light at 2500 lb, handles great, revs all the way up to 8200 rpm and has just enough power at 180 hp. The 7th gen Celica is not the most popular car from its era, but it's a proper sports car for very little $$. The main thing it needs is an upgraded oil pan and for the 2000-2002 models - some new lift bolts.
pre-vw skoda favorit. literal mileage tank. maybe not really powerful, but may i mind you it won the 1300cc rally championship twice.
I find that a good competitor for the fiesta st is the Mazdaspeed 3. It does fit your requirements pretty well but is definitely at the cheaper end of of the spectrum. I have a 2008 ms3 that is decently reliable considering it is a 12 year old turbo car with 150,000 miles. It is a pretty raw car all around that will try to kill you if your not careful especially when considering torque steer.
The Speed3 is great, heavy duty motor mounts make a big difference. They break under full rally use, ask me how I know ruclips.net/video/ErybfmHEXj4/видео.html
Two questions: What would you consider to be too many miles on a used car? And what sort of acceleration would you consider to be a "quick" car?
@seb451 15 seconds is slow
Anything under 7 seconds 0-60 is quick enough
I'd say 10s 0-60 is around where you want to be, but mostly look at the power, you don't want less than 100HP in a 1200kg car. 75HP is well enough in a 800kg car though. There is not such thing as too much mileage too, for the older cars, more mileage can mean a better car really- peopple who drive a lot generally take better care of the vehicle than the city drivers, but in general it's the condition of the perticular example that's important.
@david chappel completely stripped down, heavily modified? Otherwise, that's BS - their typical range is 6-8 seconds.
And upper 5s to low 7s is pretty standard for a typical "quick" street car. Tires play a huge role in that. Don't cheap out.
I would ignore the mileage. Focus on the age. Most car issues are more age/maintenance related than mileage related, and modern engines can handle way more miles than we give them credit for. Horror stories about the 200k+ car that is falling apart are almost always about 20+ year old cars that haven't been maintained for 5-10 years.
In USA: From my driving and purchasing experience...Dodge Neon, Acura RSX, WV rabbit/golf (don't even need GTi), Any small honda Civic (Si preferred) , 2007-2014 Honda Fit, Ford Fiesta or Focus, Chevy Sonic
I love my dc4 Integra. One of the most pure driver’s cars ever made
I bought a 2013 ford fiesta SE 5 speed certified used with 27k miles in 2014. Still have it. Mechanically sound with 215k miles. 120 horsepower and 118 torque for a 2,500 lb 4 door hatchback is not bad. You can seriously use all the power, and it can surprise people if you know how to drive it. Fast, no. But quick enough up to 50-70 mph. Have always taken care of oil changes on time and use Pennzoil platinum manufacturer oil weight, fluids, and general maintenance. I also use Seafoam as recommended in the fuel tank every oil change before I fill up with gas, crankcase 50-100 miles before the oil change, and intake every 50k miles to keep engine clean of carbon deposits, which reduces wear a little over time, and helps retain the rediculous gas mileage with the cleaner engine over time. Not necessary, but I do use 91/93 Shell nitro gasoline as points add up for cheeper gas, and the detergents do help with cleaner burn and retain better gas mileage over time. Upgraded suspension to ford performance specifically for the standard fiesta which drops the front by 1 inch, and back by 1.5 inches, $230 for all four corners. Keeps some of the everyday comfort, but stiffens the spring and damping just enough to throw around corners to handle that much better. Still have the 15 inch steelies, and use a great street/track tire Dunlop Direzza DZ102 205/15 55. $80 a tire, great wet and dry traction for the money. And just some dimple and slotted rotors with ceramic break pads which all together another $200. I prefer rear wheel drive and did own a 93 240sx, but maintenance nightmare, lol. I am looking forward to the 2022 Subaru BRZ as my next daily driver, but still awaiting some details and a test drive.
I went with the Focus St instead of the Fiesta St for the extra room and power (also didn't go for the RS because out of price range and head gasket). I've never driven a fwd car that felt so much like driving on rails! It's an amazing daily and rocks mountain roads whenever I want.
How's the torque steer and understeer on that car?
@@bobbybooshay5854 torque steer: it's there but not terrible when in sport mode (which I drove it in exclusively).
Understeer: non existent in my experience. Actually, pretty easy to get it to oversteer instead (the way Ford made it)
I just got a 2019 Fiesta se a few months ago and it’s great! Yeah it only has 120hp but like you were saying it’s well balanced and I have a lot of fun with it(mostly because of the proper handbrake)...it only has 1300 miles so far and I’ve definitely pushed its limits and it’s running like a champ so far! It’s definitely reassuring to hear you say that it’s a great car to get started with rallying! (Wish I could’ve afforded the ST, but I’m saving up for an STI so this’ll do in the meantime)! Keep the great content coming!!
Awesome DJ, have fun with it!!
90’s Volvo 740 turbo
92-00 BMW 3 series
NA NB Miata
Early IS300 with a factory five speed and LSD. Cheap, reliable, quick enough, and exceptionally well balanced. They are not that hard to find!
If you can find some for a decent price with less than 100k miles send me their way lol. Up in the rust belt any is300 with a stick either had some ridiculous amount of miles or they wanted like $12k-$15k for a 70k mile 15 year old car
Mini Cooper S R53, preferably 2004.5 through 2006. Excellent go kart car, supercharged, 6 speed manual, very good in auto cross and fun to work on with a lot of options to upgrade. Cheap too. Not so reliable but all the corks are well known and easily fixable.
Mk5 rabbit/golf makes a wonderful rally cross car. Maybe with some mods like wavetrac lsd would do well on a stage. Prior maintenance is a factor but nost of the 07k (5 cylinder 20v) motors are extremely robust and reliable and have adequate power for a 2wd car.
I had a few Nissan B14's (1995-1999) 200sx and sentra. Both with the sr20de.. Freakin go karts, and cheap af to fix/maintain.. Would blow the doors off audi's and bmw's in the canyons of co... Have since swapped in the sr20vet... It's fun
Oddball suggestion: 2006-2012 is350 checks all the boxes, maybe a bit portly but lots of power. Also outside of the rust belt I think you can easily go older, racing in Texas it's pretty rare to see cars newer than 20 years old.
Volkwagon Jetta 2004 1.8t fits the tag, its newish, LSD is a common MOD, deletes are easy, its efficient, has a hand brake, very solid little car and can be found cheap with low millage in good shape if you look.
2019 Suzuki Swift sport
FWD that weighs 975 kg dry
real handbrake, no LSD...
seems a sound choice on paper but from 2020 it became a mild hybrid adding weight and complexity...
Drove a Swift at the Nurburgring.....what a great little car!
Honda Fit
That's probably even better, now the earlier ones will be a lot cheaper because they don't have the ECO advantages
Great info..and I have taken only some to heart.."94 suzuki swift gti..not new but it is light..rattley but solid..performance is ok when the revs are high(still pretty slow)..kms per L are sensational.. and it has a proper handbrake ..and ..I think for everyone out there..it's gotta be fun to drive!..Thats the biggy.
This is very sound advice. But I think the year metric might be too harsh. I still think 90's stuff is absolutely viable still and you can save a lot doing it.
My 88' Supra should be junk by that graph, but with some fixing up/upgrading, it's been hands down the best handling and driving car I've ever used by a huge margin. It's 34 years old now, but it's knocking the socks off cheaper newer offerings.
fantastic car but i think the age & value alone holds these cars back, let alone the cost your gonna spend restoring those old parts if you find a decent enough one for a good price
Focus ST and VW Golf / GTI are good for driving and the VW have a lot of parts availability. For cars made after about 2012, a question is, can you turn off the stability control without ripping out a wiring harness and re-chipping the car, rendering it into an off road/race only car.
I own a car built in 1987. No window motors or central locking that can break, Rubbers are cheap to replace, everything is easy to acces and maintenance friendly.
Golf mk2 5-door with glorious 75 weber-horsepowers. No ABS, AC or power steering to worry about, too. And the engine survived 10 mins of full throttle at 165kph on the autobahn so I think its safe to race.
If ya want performance I reccomend a VR6 swap. Easily doable under 5K and it turns the car into a monster.
Fiesta ST owner, but I think the 10th gen Civic Sport/Si now needs a mention. Costs are coming down since this video was made. Reliable, great mpgs, 6mt, Si has an LSD and lots of available parts. Plus, you can stuff big tires under there (up to 245s)