Thank you for making this video. I just pulled my D4 apart for the first time and the small shims went flying across the garage! I'm pretty sure it came with 3 small shims on the timing side and one large on the pinion side. -already ordered the shim kit and will follow you video.
Do you remember how many shim and what size you used in that D4? I'm currently shimming with the Trinity shims. One thin and two thicker shims puts the rotor VERY close to the sensors just barely not touching. Three thick shims has a noticable gab between the rotor and sensors. I'm having a hard time knowing how close is good.
+ryan holcomb Hi Ryan If it is too close it will rub when you spin the rotor while holding it upright. Do the best you can with the shims. Sometimes the shims are roughly made and bent, so tap them flat and you may get a better spacing.
+ryan holcomb Hi Ryan 0.3mm is ok. If it is too close it will rub. When motor reassembled, you can spin the rotor over without any noise if it was touching the sensor.
Really interesting thanks for posting and explaining. I have a couple of motors with lots of float so will be interesting to pull them apart and have a play.
I race Monster Locked timing brushless motors Nick. We have fixed 30 deg timing with blinky ESC and fixed gear. We need max RPM's. What should I do to my motor achieve that? Thanks!
Hi Ron The fixed motors should make them all equal for everyone. To increase performance of a motor would not be recommended, and adjusting the timing would be difficult. Unfortunately motors do vary a lot, especially the cheaper ones. As the magnetic strength of the rotor decreases with age and overheating, the rpm will increase, but the low end may also reduce.
Understood. I don't want to cheat the motor, just know how to shim it etc to get the best out of it I can legally get-I'm sure others are doing such as well. Thanks Nick.
the timing on the sensors also maybe corrected by tightening the screw on the end bell very slowly and equal.. make an adjustment depending on what sensor has the most difference..
Hello Nick. I got my motor checker and went straight to work. I tested both 17.5 Trinity D4 1s Motors and was unable to get all three sensors to read the same. I finally decided to leave well enough alone when on my final test of one motor gave the following readings at 30 degrees: A = 19, B = 19, C = 19, Average = 18. This was accomplished with only the use of 2 shims.The performance of the motor tested as follows. Kv = 2300RP = 18630AMP = 1.1U = 8.1The addition of 1 extra shim raised the average timing by one degree but seemed to slow down the motor. There was a spread on all timing. Anyhow, what are your thoughts on these numbers? Should I simply accept the fact that I probably won't be able to get a uniform reading on all 3 sensors? Any suggestions?I have a second motor of the same kind and want to match them as equally as possible.What's interesting is that when I added a third shim the spread was less and the average at 30 degrees was 19 but the motor had less Kv and RPM. This is referring to the first motor I mentioned above.Thanks in advance!
ive got a novak ballistic and need to move the sensor board move closer to rotor as there is a huge gap between the 2 .. maybe 2mm is there and easy way as i cant shim the rotor any farther closer
Great video...thx. I understand that you want 6 amps for 17.5/13.5 motors but how about mod motor like 7-8 turns? Do I still run them at 6 amps or higher? thanks in advance.
Hi When you can add Boost and Turbo from the Speed Control, the endbell setting is not so important. However, the no load amp draw is a wasted power that turns into heat, so the no load amps should normally be set 6 amps or below.
Hi Nick. I've just bought a new rotor for my reds racing vx 13.5 which I use in blinky racing. I have chose the rmp rotor this time however the supplied shim sits the rotor much further away from the sensor board than it did with my standard rotor. Is this a feature of rpm rotors or should I start filing the shim down in order to get it closer to the board.
Hi Matthew. It is best to shim the rotor close to the sensor board for the best results. The sensors are turned on and off by the rotor magnetic field, which is more concentrated the nearer it is. Be careful not to go too close and rub on the sensors.
@@nickadams5411 thanks Nick. Would you suggest gearing an rpm rotor differently? I usually gear at 5.2 and set it at 6 amp but the rotor inside was ancient and had lost a lot of its torque.
Hello nick. Have you ever worked on a Maclan motor? I'm a little skeptical of taking it apart and I just want to know what would be the ideal size for shims for that motor. Thank you !
Hi Nick. I run a lrp x22 4.5t motor. I wonder if there will be a noticeable difference in rpm if I change the stock 12.5 mm rotor to a new 12.1 mm one? Also will that change give me smoother, response when I accelerate?
The manufactures should have set that properly, but sometimes the rotor tries to pull in or out against the ends. I think setting the rotor close to sensor board is probably the better option.
Can you shim a tekin 2050kv 1/8 rc motor its has a one large shim only at 12mm on serket board side and its copper do i file it back because the gap about 1mm
Hi On that motor, the rotor magnetic strength is much higher, so the gap is not that critical. Unless your motor has bad timing problem, I would leave it.
+Marcelo Borges Hi The X20 has a different sensor design to other motors. The sensors are at the side of the rotor (not the end) Therefore the shimming is not the same. Moving the rotor towards the pinion end will give a more focussed magnetic field on the sensor.
Hi Sorry, I don't remember. Normally you test, then shim, without changing the timing, so you can see if it makes things better or worse. Generally it will reduce the spread of the timing sensors, so go for the spacing that gives the closest match.
+Nick Adams Understood. I did some research on motor sensors and came across a blurb that said if the end of the rotor touches the circuit board or sensors it could damage it. Have you found this to be true? Also, I purchased a new Trinity d4 1s 17.5 motor as back up. I noticed the rotor on the new spins more freely when turned by hand while the second (old) motor requires a bit more effort. I cleaned and lubricated the bearings on the older motor. Will this affect performance? My goal is to make it so both motors operate as identically as possible. I should mention the older motor has a new sensor. Both motors are Trinity d4 1s 17.5 Thanks!
Hi Yes, i have said that you must check that the rotor does not touch the sensor board. You can see that bt eye, and then spin over and check there is not scraping noise. Rotors can differ in magnetic strength, which can make them spin easily or feel the magnets as you turn it.
Hi Nick. How does one determine the proper amount of end-float? Is it by the sensor readings on the motor analyzer alone? My motor is a Trinity D4 1s 17.5 and has A LOT of end-play with the stock shims. Waiting for my motor analyzer to arrive so I can do some testing. What a good reference point for optimum end-float? Thanks for these videos. I'm a novice when it comes to the inner workings of RC car motors but am trying to learn all I can. Very informative and interesting. Keep up the great work!!
Hi Dimitri The end float needs to be just noticeable. It will be about 0.01mm. As you have found, it is very easy to tell there is too much float. So add shims until there is no float, then take out the thinnest shim. Note, that when you tighten the screws, the float will get less. Be careful that the rotor is close but not touching the sensors.. Spin the rotor over by hand, and check there is no rubbing sound. Keep racing to win. nick
+Nick Adams Thank you for the prompt reply. I saw in another one of your videos that adding shims actually made the sensor timing worse. By adding the shims as you suggested, would that not be a consequence of additional shims? Or is shimming "case by case" matter.
Hi The shims prevent the rotor vibrating which can upset the timing. Minimum end float is best for performance. The distance of the magnetic rotor from the sensors will affect the timing. It is best to shim the rotor close to the sensors. Some sensor boards are badly made, and the timing will change depending on the distance from the rotor. When you get the analyzer you can get it just right.
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Thank you for making this video. I just pulled my D4 apart for the first time and the small shims went flying across the garage! I'm pretty sure it came with 3 small shims on the timing side and one large on the pinion side. -already ordered the shim kit and will follow you video.
+ryan holcomb
Hi Ryan
Yes they are 1/8th hole shims, small outer diameter.
Shim to make sure the rotor does not rub on the sensors
Do you remember how many shim and what size you used in that D4? I'm currently shimming with the Trinity shims. One thin and two thicker shims puts the rotor VERY close to the sensors just barely not touching. Three thick shims has a noticable gab between the rotor and sensors.
I'm having a hard time knowing how close is good.
+ryan holcomb
Hi Ryan
If it is too close it will rub when you spin the rotor while holding it upright.
Do the best you can with the shims.
Sometimes the shims are roughly made and bent, so tap them flat and you may get a better spacing.
I have it shimmed 0.3mm away from the sensors. Does that seems too close or just right?
+ryan holcomb
Hi Ryan
0.3mm is ok.
If it is too close it will rub.
When motor reassembled, you can spin the rotor over without any noise if it was touching the sensor.
Thanks for your Vids Nick. I learned quite a bit from this video and it has already helped me on the track!
Hi Squintz. Okay thanks, and race on. nick
Really interesting thanks for posting and explaining. I have a couple of motors with lots of float so will be interesting to pull them apart and have a play.
Love these videos, I am learning quite a lot from you. Keep up the good work!
What would be the minimum and maximum end play
How far is too far off for acceptable timing readings?
I race Monster Locked timing brushless motors Nick. We have fixed 30 deg timing with blinky ESC and fixed gear. We need max RPM's. What should I do to my motor achieve that? Thanks!
Hi Ron
The fixed motors should make them all equal for everyone.
To increase performance of a motor would not be recommended, and adjusting the timing would be difficult.
Unfortunately motors do vary a lot, especially the cheaper ones.
As the magnetic strength of the rotor decreases with age and overheating, the rpm will increase, but the low end may also reduce.
Understood. I don't want to cheat the motor, just know how to shim it etc to get the best out of it I can legally get-I'm sure others are doing such as well. Thanks Nick.
How do you know how many shims to place on the other side of the rotor?
the timing on the sensors also maybe corrected by tightening the screw on the end bell very slowly and equal.. make an adjustment depending on what sensor has the most difference..
Hi Melvin
I agree that the endbell adjustment can make a small difference, but not enough to correct the ones that can be up to 10 degrees out!
What do u do w motors after u test them
Hello Nick. I got my motor checker and went straight to work. I tested both 17.5 Trinity D4 1s Motors and was unable to get all three sensors to read the same. I finally decided to leave well enough alone when on my final test of one motor gave the following readings at 30 degrees: A = 19, B = 19, C = 19, Average = 18. This was accomplished with only the use of 2 shims.The performance of the motor tested as follows. Kv = 2300RP = 18630AMP = 1.1U = 8.1The addition of 1 extra shim raised the average timing by one degree but seemed to slow down the motor. There was a spread on all timing. Anyhow, what are your thoughts on these numbers? Should I simply accept the fact that I probably won't be able to get a uniform reading on all 3 sensors? Any suggestions?I have a second motor of the same kind and want to match them as equally as possible.What's interesting is that when I added a third shim the spread was less and the average at 30 degrees was 19 but the motor had less Kv and RPM. This is referring to the first motor I mentioned above.Thanks in advance!
ive got a novak ballistic and need to move the sensor board move closer to rotor as there is a huge gap between the 2 .. maybe 2mm is there and easy way as i cant shim the rotor any farther closer
Hi
Sorry, no.
The Ballistic has a step on the shaft that cannot be moved, and bearing and sensor board is fixed.
thank you! and I love the last comment just get some shims from another motor! thats what happened..lol
Great video...thx.
I understand that you want 6 amps for 17.5/13.5 motors but how about mod motor like 7-8 turns? Do I still run them at 6 amps or higher?
thanks in advance.
Hi
When you can add Boost and Turbo from the Speed Control, the endbell setting is not so important.
However, the no load amp draw is a wasted power that turns into heat, so the no load amps should normally be set 6 amps or below.
Hi Nick. I've just bought a new rotor for my reds racing vx 13.5 which I use in blinky racing. I have chose the rmp rotor this time however the supplied shim sits the rotor much further away from the sensor board than it did with my standard rotor. Is this a feature of rpm rotors or should I start filing the shim down in order to get it closer to the board.
Hi Matthew. It is best to shim the rotor close to the sensor board for the best results. The sensors are turned on and off by the rotor magnetic field, which is more concentrated the nearer it is. Be careful not to go too close and rub on the sensors.
@@nickadams5411 thanks Nick. Would you suggest gearing an rpm rotor differently? I usually gear at 5.2 and set it at 6 amp but the rotor inside was ancient and had lost a lot of its torque.
@@MrHipwell1989 Hi, It is not good to run a low torque rotor for normal racing, as it will heat the motor.
Low torque are used for high speed tracks,
Hello nick. Have you ever worked on a Maclan motor? I'm a little skeptical of taking it apart and I just want to know what would be the ideal size for shims for that motor. Thank you !
Hi
The Maclan motor uses the standard 1/8th shaft.
Thin shims (0.1mm or thicker) with 1/8th hole, can be used for shimming the end play float.
How was your experience with the timing and the amps? Were they close enough straight out the box or would I have to tinker with it a bit ?
Hi
The timing will be too low out of the box.
You will have to advance the timing for Blinky racing.
Hi Nick. I run a lrp x22 4.5t motor. I wonder if there will be a noticeable difference in rpm if I change the stock 12.5 mm rotor to a new 12.1 mm one? Also will that change give me smoother, response when I accelerate?
Hi Boris
Yes, as long as it is a high strength (High Gauss) version.
It will spin up faster and give the same or maybe more speed and torque.
Thanks!
Hi Nick I know shimming the rotor to the sensor board can increase power but what about shimming the rotor to the stator?
The manufactures should have set that properly, but sometimes the rotor tries to pull in or out against the ends.
I think setting the rotor close to sensor board is probably the better option.
Can you shim a tekin 2050kv 1/8 rc motor its has a one large shim only at 12mm on serket board side and its copper do i file it back because the gap about 1mm
Hi
On that motor, the rotor magnetic strength is much higher, so the gap is not that critical.
Unless your motor has bad timing problem, I would leave it.
Nick, in my tests, increased amps with greater distance, can consider higher amperage, better position?
X20 13,5
40,0 degrees 5,83amps(0 shims)
6,58 (3shims)
+Marcelo Borges
Hi
The X20 has a different sensor design to other motors.
The sensors are at the side of the rotor (not the end)
Therefore the shimming is not the same.
Moving the rotor towards the pinion end will give a more focussed magnetic field on the sensor.
Thanks, Best regards
Do you recall the timing to which you set the motor prior to testing and shimming?
Hi
Sorry, I don't remember.
Normally you test, then shim, without changing the timing, so you can see if it makes things better or worse.
Generally it will reduce the spread of the timing sensors, so go for the spacing that gives the closest match.
+Nick Adams Understood.
I did some research on motor sensors and came across a blurb that said if the end of the rotor touches the circuit board or sensors it could damage it. Have you found this to be true? Also, I purchased a new Trinity d4 1s 17.5 motor as back up. I noticed the rotor on the new spins more freely when turned by hand while the second (old) motor requires a bit more effort. I cleaned and lubricated the bearings on the older motor. Will this affect performance? My goal is to make it so both motors operate as identically as possible. I should mention the older motor has a new sensor. Both motors are Trinity d4 1s 17.5
Thanks!
Hi
Yes, i have said that you must check that the rotor does not touch the sensor board.
You can see that bt eye, and then spin over and check there is not scraping noise.
Rotors can differ in magnetic strength, which can make them spin easily or feel the magnets as you turn it.
+Nick Adams Oh, I meant the end of the tip of the end of the rotor shouldn't touch the sensors while placing it into the sensor.
I forgot to mention the new Trinity has zero end float.
Hi
Yes, I find that they are very tight, and normally need a shim removing.
Hi Nick. How does one determine the proper amount of end-float? Is it by the sensor readings on the motor analyzer alone? My motor is a Trinity D4 1s 17.5 and has A LOT of end-play with the stock shims. Waiting for my motor analyzer to arrive so I can do some testing. What a good reference point for optimum end-float? Thanks for these videos. I'm a novice when it comes to the inner workings of RC car motors but am trying to learn all I can. Very informative and interesting. Keep up the great work!!
Hi Dimitri
The end float needs to be just noticeable.
It will be about 0.01mm.
As you have found, it is very easy to tell there is too much float.
So add shims until there is no float, then take out the thinnest shim.
Note, that when you tighten the screws, the float will get less.
Be careful that the rotor is close but not touching the sensors..
Spin the rotor over by hand, and check there is no rubbing sound.
Keep racing to win.
nick
+Nick Adams Thank you for the prompt reply. I saw in another one of your videos that adding shims actually made the sensor timing worse. By adding the shims as you suggested, would that not be a consequence of additional shims? Or is shimming "case by case" matter.
Hi
The shims prevent the rotor vibrating which can upset the timing.
Minimum end float is best for performance.
The distance of the magnetic rotor from the sensors will affect the timing.
It is best to shim the rotor close to the sensors.
Some sensor boards are badly made, and the timing will change depending on the distance from the rotor.
When you get the analyzer you can get it just right.