The Wanderer I feel like the difference though was he knew ttyd would win anyway ( unless I’m remembering the order they voted wrong) but Austin knew he had to pick melee because it would lose if he picked AC. In other words he knew his vote mattered this time
"How would you describe Animal Crossing to someone who has never played it before." " "Chill" "How else would you describe it?" "...Chill.." "...Ok? Any other way to describe it?" "Chill?"
Yep, local tournaments (or non majors) can potentially be won by any character, even DJ Nintendo Ive heard has farmed some locals with only his Bowser which is arguably the worst character
When items are on and all stages are on at a casual level, I don't really think character choice matter so I heavily agree with you. I played Melee casually until the beginning of 2016. During that time, I beat all of my friends with Link. It didn't really matter if they played Marth or Fox or Puff since our skill levels were so low(in fact, we believed for a long time that Puff was bad.) Someone who's even remotely good at melee can 10 times out of 10 beat a casual with Pichu or Kirby or Bowser. Their argument of the fact that most characters are unviable probably comes from the fact that tier list memes are very common, making many casual players blame their losses on their character. I think if anything they should've used the argument of the fact that melee's skill ceiling being high makes it easier for high level players to beat low level players. Even then that doesn't hold much weight since a good smash 4 player could easily beat a casual one, a game with a much lower skill ceiling. That's just how it is with competitive games. I do respect their opinion of not liking melee since I know it's not for everyone, but I think some of their arguments were shaky at best.
I was going to make this comment. They really went on about it like it was some obvious huge flaw in the game, but tiers don't matter if no one can play the game well enough to take advantage of character power disparity. Their logic is incompatible with each other because they're professing their apathy for the pro/tournament scene and putting casual play on a pedestal, but then knocking off points for problems that only exist in non-casual environments, which they likely wouldn't even know about in the first place if it weren't for the size and success of the pro/tournament scene.
singular on1 even beyond that man. The 2018 top 10 players had a Yoshi and A Pikachu player and those characters are mid-tiers. Plus we still have some top 100 players with amazing lower tier characters like n0ne, Kage and Bizzarob with Ganondorfs, Abate and Eddy Mexico who play Luigi, A-Rookie has a ridiculous Mario, Taj has a high level mewtwo. Really just depends on the players and the matchup to its core. Pika vs Marth is like 60/40 in pika’s favor which is odd since pika is ranked like 9th or 10th on the tier list and marth is 3rd arguably 2nd for some.
10:30 To debate Jared's point, yes, you can do that for any competitive fighting game. Even the sailor moon game. But there is no competitive game this old that people still play today that has numbers like melee. I would say starcraft and maybe mvc2, but Melee definitely has the numbers.
To be fair though, Melee is very likely only as popular a competitive game as it is today because Brawl was NOT, and Brawl being designed the way it was (essentially to be anti-competitive in every way) is what caused players to go back and stick with Melee, starting the competitive scene we see still to this day. No other fighting game franchise has a scene that primarily plays any game within it that isn't the newest iteration. Street Fighter V, King of Fighters XIV, Tekken 7, Soul Calibur 6, Guilty Gear Xrd Rev2, etc etc, and that's not because the previous games weren't deep enough, but rather because the competitive players didn't have to move on to such an anti-competitive game like Brawl, and thus have to wait out the lifespan of an entire entry in a franchise for the next game, and by the time Smash 4 came out, the ones who passed on Brawl and stuck with Melee were already so deep into it, and Melee also just HAPPENED to have a TON of hidden tech to discover, that there still wasn't any reason to move on for them. It really can be said for any fighting game. There's still a lot to discover in games like Third Strike, or MVC2, or KOF 98, or SC2, but the only difference between those games and Melee is those game franchises weren't essentially sabotaged by their developers, forcing competitive players to stay where they were before as opposed to moving on. I think Melee is a phenomenal competitive game, moreso than most others honestly in the amount of actual depth to it, but I don't think that was why people stuck with it (initially) as opposed to moving on to the next game, which is what should naturally happen with fighting games.
@@Nizondo it did for sure, but it really blew up around the time of Brawl's release. If Brawl was designed with the same iterative mindset that every other fighting game franchise was, Melee would have died then and there, no question. Everyone would have moved on to Brawl, and we'd likely only ever see Melee played in small side tournaments like all the other 20 or so year old fighting games.
@@noctorock That's fair. I wonder how popular Melee would be right now had it lost to Skullgirls in the Evo 2013 donation drive; that was pretty much the first time I really realized there was a scene for it. I hope False finally finishes the Brawl documentary.
@@Nizondo that moment too was the second (and probably biggest) big kickstarter for Melee as a competitive game. A competitive game lives on not just through it's players, but it's spectators as well, and the spectators willing to tune in to Melee since then has skyrocketed to the point that it's consistently one of if not THE most viewed event at any tournament. I think if Skullgirls had won, Melee would still have a scene, but I think it would have a much higher hill to climb to get to where it is now.
A lot of people call out bias for the show and that is the single easiest subject to put bias on display short of Pokemon games. So I don't think it's a good idea.
One thing they got to talk about is how melee doesn’t just have an amazing soundtrack, but it’s one of the only games on GC or this bracket that let you scroll thru all the music (and sound effects even) and choose which tracts to listen to in the background. Amazing feature put in just for the players to enjoy even when they’re not actually playing Also mention how well designed and thoughtful the training mode in melee is, allowing worse players who cared a chance to play at 2/3rds,1/3, or 1/4 speed to see what inputs had to be done and what combos were possible
Haven’t finished the video yet but the amount of praise they’re giving Animal Crossing against Smash is mind boggling. I will be sad if they vote against Smash. Well shit, I can’t believe it. PBG just went off the rails.
I don't get why Animal Crossing fans are complaining. There was clearly a good discussion and everyone was as objective as possible (100% objective statements are impossible) including the shocking PBG vote. FF9 on the other hand... (no, I'm never letting that one go)
The ideas were really passed around the room in this episode. Everything felt so fleshed out. My favourite episode so far, and I still have lots to catch up on.
I gotta say I am very happy PBG did not take the easy W for one of his favorite games; shows a lot of character and smash is the logical choice to move on.
just a thought for this shows future episodes - it'd be cool if you guys showed the entire bracket up to this point instead of just which games are facing off, so we can get a quick visualization of what has happened/whats down the line.
You guys should do a bracket for indie games! (I’ve commented this a few times, and a lot of people seem to like the idea. Although the main complaint I see is that it’s too broad of a topic. My argument against that is EVERY topic they do is broad. As for another addition, I like the idea for this since I’m not sure who would win. The guys wouldn’t have any nostalgia goggles, and I feel it would be a pretty balanced bracket. Just my thoughts)
Yeah, this would be a great idea. Maybe narrow it down to different genres, or keep it broad and have the community vote on what games to include? Overall, this is a great idea and opens up different indie games to everyone.
The biggest issue with this topic is that it's broadness is a different type of broad. Every game currently is from a single console, every cartoon has been from a single decade. That narrows it down to a ten year span at most. Looking at indie games they've spanned many console generations, and are an entirely different beast. For example if you're comparing Bastion to Battle for Wesnoth you have 2 good games, with one just getting better and better after nearly 16 years of updates now. Does Minecraft count as an indie game anymore since Microsoft bought them out? Do you only count the content from before Microsoft bought them?
The thing is though, often enough they are much lesser known. With stuff like nintendo games, even if you didnt play through all of them, often enough you still can have an opinion or know why it wasnt for you if you didnt play them. I dont think the same is true for a lot of indie games. I would like to see something like FNAF vs the binding of isaac though.
The fact that almost every point for melee was viewership, and animal crossing’s were actually about the game speaks much more about the quality of the games than the result of this video Sorry bout it
None of them play Melee or know anything competitive about Melee to explain it good enough, but they all know that it is big and very popular because of that
I respect Austin a lot for voting on what he believed was the better game. While the series is usually pretty subjective on what people like/dislike, watching Austin go completely against his own preference and vote for the game he thought deserved it earns my respect. Also
I'm amazed that any of them thought Animal Crossing would be bigger than Smash for streaming. How out of touch do you have to be with the world to not notice the IMMENSE popularity of Smash streaming? Chill can never compete with Hype for viewership.
The best media debate is fun, but I'd love it if they alternated between Bests and Worsts. Let's see some arguments for why Bubsy 3D is worse than Superman 64. Or why Calendar Man is worse than Condiment King.
Wow.... those numbers for watch time are not even close. Not knocking Animal Crossing of course, but just on the face of it those Melee watch hours are INSANE.
Yes... although it just comes back to what Jeff was saying, that animal crossing is not precisely a watchable game. Which shouldn't be a knock against it
it's not necessarily a knock against AC. However it proves to show that Melee has significantly more staying power than something like the original AC which is important.
17:35 This man has had every correct opinion in this bracket so far. Annoyed that Pikmin 2 didn't take its rightful place here, but at least Melee made it to the top. Super surprised that PBG didn't vote for Animal Crossing. Newfound respect for him.
I think I would have said the same thing as PBG. I love Animal Crossing and have probably put way more hours into it than Melee. That being said, I can't argue against Melee being one of the most well-done experiences of all time. The later games are better for 95% of Smash players, but they build on the foundation that came from Melee. Melee added more mechanics to Smash than any other game in the series, even with its rushed development cycle. Animal Crossing has an amazing wealth of things to do and collect, but even that seems shallow compared to the depth of Melee.
It should have lost in the first place. Jeff and Jared's argument were pretty bad honestly. Their whole perception of half the characters being bad is based on the competitive scene, but then they just disregard it as a niche. But Then how did they know what characters are bad. Nobody seemed to think so when the game out. Also Jared arguing that you need friends to play a MULTIPLAYER game as negative is by far one of the worst arguments I've ever seen on the show. They mention it was rushed, but literally explain what was specifically rushed about it either.
While I see what your saying, a multiplayer game being less fun alone is a valid argument when being faced against a single player game, they brought up the negatives of animal crossing's multiplayer so smash's single player is fair game
@@warpbait2 They shouldn't have mentioned Animal Crossing multiplayer either, it was less than 5% of what that game was and there was a ton they didn't talk about in Animal Crossing that was way more important. Deciding on what game is objectively better, it's completely unfair to just say multiplayer is worse because it requires friends, it's just a bad argument. Even worse they don't even touch on Melee's single player at all the entire video.
I genuinely don't understand in what ways Melee is supposed to feel rushed. It's so feature complete and well made that I would never have guessed that it was made in such a short span of time.
I'm not always a fan of PBG, and some of his arguments in previous brackets have physically hurt me, but today he brought out the best in everyone. He stood his ground, made great points, changed how people were looking at the conversation, and then he cast a vote he could look back on and be proud of. Good job, peebs.
This has been such a great season i am sad to see it ending soon! I hope we get to see Jeff in some more of these brackets as well he has been a great addition to the cast!
Idea: 1 on 1 exhibition matches. Only two people at the table and they each have to defend one game. This wouldn't be a series but an episode or two between seasons.
Wow, that was so surprising to see Peebs vote against Animal Crossing, since he's been pining for the game this whole bracket. Especially since Jeff and Jared voted for it, and Animal Crossing would have made it to the grand finals with Peebs' vote. What a crazy turnaround of events!
I think the end of this episode was a huge wake up call for Jared. Dude was really convinced that animal crossing brings in more viewers than competitive melee and the numbers overwhelmingly proved otherwise.
That was such a ridiculous statement, I always thought that Jared was the most "clear headed" in these discussions but he made very weird points in this one
It was completely irrelevant to the conversation too, because they were talking about the new Animal Crossing. In fact the entire episode was spent comparing smash to the Animal Crossing franchise instead of just the GC one. Animal Crossing gained a majority of it's following from Wild World on DS, just look at the sales numbers. The GC one sold 2.32 million and Wild World sold 11.75 million.
I think he was talking more about his own audience rather than just in general, which is true of any streamer. Jared and PBG are known for their love of Animal Crossing so of course they'll attract an audience who loves Animal Crossing too. That's why their stream numbers are so high when ever they play the game. The same can be said of a well-known Smash player whenever they stream Smash. I think they took their own audience bias as a general statement when it comes to stream numbers, which was a misconception on their part.
To be honest I'm not too big on either games but to say the smash competitive scene is niche especially when compared to a niche game such as Animal Crossing made absolutely no sense. Lee already showed the facts post recording and I'm glad he did because pushing the annoying smash memes aside, Melee's community alone is bigger than Animal Crossing.
im definitely glad he added in the numbers in post to show just how much the argument that "comp smash is niche compared to ac" was unfounded nonsense based on their personal feeling.
@@Shoddragon I agree man that comment didn't make any sense especially since Animal Crossing is still a smaller Nintendo franchise when compared to smash.
Online smash has the bigger community, but in terms of how many people actually play the game themselves, animal crossing is bigger. Just because more people watch twitch streams of a game doesn’t mean more people play that game.
@@Stacko1515 Melee is niche, smash bros in general is. And animal crossing is very niche. Yes, everybody knows about it, but the playerbase is what you take into account when you day something is niche.
I agree with Jared's point on explaining the charm of Smash to non-gamer friends. I once tried to encourage a group of Wii players to try Brawl after playing Raving Rabbids, and basically, they saw me play a single match, and stated its too complicating.
That would be amazing! But even if a season of SNES madness were to happen, I don't think Terranigma would be voted on there since the majority of the audience of Madness is probably North American and they didn't get Terranigma, i.e. it's not representative of the system for the majority of players (I would assume that Final Fantasy III and/or Chrono Trigger would make it on a potential list). But it's probably the very best Action RPG on that system.
Chris Beach if we had a snes madness im calling the roster now. Super Mario World Link to The Past Super Metroid Kirby Super Star Super Mario Kart Street Fighter 2 Turbo Either DKC1 or 2 both are dope Super Mario RPG Starfox Fzero Turtles in time Earthbound Final Fantasy 2 or 3
@@whalenator1453 great list but I'd replace street fighter with Chrono Trigger only because that was on Sega. Theres enough SNES exclusives that you could have a larger bracket
@@shouryuuken4147 well seinken densetsu 3 aka secret of Mana 2 is another great action RPG, SD3 or Terrinigma doesn't make the list then they better call the madness "USA SNES games" there are so many great games that never got localized. I think the SNES bracket madness should be 32 games honestly
I came into this episode with a lot of anxiety about AC getting dismissed (not even a fan of the franchise either honestly) and PBG having to uphill battle just to get everybody else to acknowledge what he thought were it's strengths, but I was glad to see everybody actually consider his words and Smash didn't just steamroll it. We could have had another Ape Escape here, but we didn't. I appreciate that.
Personally, even for the multiplayer aspects of both games, I thoroughly enjoyed Animal Crossing more with my brothers and sister. In Melee, being the oldest, I was always better than the rest of my family and it made it less fun when I had to be handicapped all the time just so the others could enjoy it just as much. In Animal Crossing, we were always waiting for our turns, sending mail to each other with junk we were trying to get rid of, and all kinds of other shenanigans that we could all enjoy despite our age differences. While I do think that Melee is the "better" game, I still prefer Animal Crossing over it for pretty much every argument made for it in this video. I am not saying that it should have won or anything like that, just giving some personal background on the two games. Awesome video, I have been enjoying the entire season!
I can't prove it, but Austin voted smash cause they wouldn't be able to have a Grand Finale with Paper Mario vs Animal since it's already been done in the bracket.
WTF AUSTIN!? Really though, I feel the same way. I would have been shocked if Melee didn't at least win the loser's bracket, even though I love Animal Crossing
i wanna point out this tidbit. best part of this season to me is just the fact that jeff is there. everyone else is super obviously going to choose someone from minute 1. jeff is always asking both sides and isnt always easy to read, and that keeps this interesting. keep jeff in! hes a great wildcard!
To claim that animal crossing has a large twitch viewership as compared to MELEE is absolutely absurd. Tournament or not. Melee is being streamed constantly with good viewership. Animal crossing just can’t compete in that way.
Animal Crossing, at least the first one was an innovative take on the life simulation genre. I honestly consider it a precursor to all of the mobile simulation games. Having said that I realize that most of those games are designed with a pay to play mechanic. But Animal Crossing, when it came out, offered a sense of escapism that not many games provided. Because you were playing something in which you had no restrictions (aside from paying off your debt to Tom Nook of course), your character was defined by who YOU were as a person. While I have to admit that I liked City Folk more, it exists because of how good the reaction to the GameCube version was.
Do one on JRPG’s plz Like contenders could be like Chrono Trigger, FF6 or 7, Suikoden 2, Xenogears, Dragon Quest (not sure which one is the most beloved), Pokémon Gold & Silver, Earthbound, Skies of Arcadia, Secret of Mana, Wild Arms, etc etc
I'm not going to lie I love all fighting games like melee and don't care for animal crossing games at all but I am proud of this panel for giving animal crossing a fair shake and not just acting like melee was the superior game all along and thank you Austin for pulling a Caddy there at the end and voting against the game he was championing it was kind of cool
It’s chill! You get to talk to people, pay mortgage and have minimal impact on the chill world around you! It’s so relaxing and fun and you get to play it twice a week! Fun game, so chill! It’s a chill game!
As a kid I was a big fan of the N64 Smash Bros. When the gamecube era happened, I had both Melee and Animal Crossing. I got bored of Melee very quickly, and didn't like it nearly as much as the first game. Animal Crossing is my favorite game for the GC still to this day. It's still the best AC in my opinion.
I love Melee it's not my personal favorite game on the Gamecube, but i have to say this. When it comes to the Gamecube Melee generated more hype than any other game. It was the best selling game on the console. It was one of the most freely creative games in the library. It has the best Multiplayer experience on the system, and it's tournament and mass popularity lifespan now triples the production lifespan of the console it was released on. The Gamecube had some amazing games, but no other game has as much claim to fame. So even though it's not my favorite, and it can be a little rough around the edges. When I ask myself what game defined being the best on the Gamecube the answer is quintessentially Melee.
I've been having trouble finding the name of the song that plays during PBG's final stance and vote. I know the artists are in the description but I'm still having a hard time. If anyone would happen to know off the top of their head? I thank you in advance.
I also feel strangely proud of PBG. It takes a certain kind of honor to let go of your very favorite thing, when you could have made it won, just because you recognize Melee vs Paper Mario is the way to go in terms of a final match.
me on feb 21st: I can't watch youtube toaday to much work me on feb 28th: I don't have to watch the previous video I can imagine how it went me on mar 1st: HOLLY SHIT top 10 anime betrayals is back. THIS IS MADNESS!
My overall vibe of this season seems to be less about the games and more about just how many things can go wrong on this new set each episode. I think it was the last episode where like three pads fell off of the ceiling and wall. Now, we have the TV just shutting off and the camera just lingering on Furst for too long. I don't dislike the new set, but I am a little disappointed with how clumsy this new one feels. Also, I kinda miss all of the funny special effects from the first season. Personally, I think I just really liked the cross table chat setting of the earlier seasons better.
Melee and TTYD are legit picks for the two best games on the 'Cube, though I'd personally put Pikmin 1 ahead of TTYD. Hope the big final lives up to the hype!
Big props to Austin, this is the second time he is objective and votes against his own preferences. The arguments and reasoning has been so much better this season compared to n64 madness
Austin pulling the move nobody else can do. This only confirms my idea that these guys would make a great D&D group. These guys just have the perfect personalities.
"If I am nothimg else, I am unpredictable."
-Austin Hargave, 2019
*noyhing
@@joeyguy12345
I need to correct your own correction.
*nothing
@@theivoryguy2476 That's the joke...............
Crazy respect for Austin, this episode shows how humble he really can be.
In contrast to animal crossing’s battle with paper Mario ttyd in which he was the exact opposite.
The Wanderer I feel like the difference though was he knew ttyd would win anyway ( unless I’m remembering the order they voted wrong) but Austin knew he had to pick melee because it would lose if he picked AC. In other words he knew his vote mattered this time
Damn madness had so much character development for pbg this season.
xeno4445 `
4real
Ree
PBG with some of his best points and that ending...
Austin, Our true knight. PLEASE SAVE ANIMAL CROSSING
Edit: I have never felt so betrayed in my life
he killed it
Dude, its Melee
@@Scorpion122178 melee sucks though
@@hanakoisbestgirl4752 it's siiiick
PEANUT BUTTER JUDAS! ;P I was shocked he went Melee...
I really appreciate PBG putting forth a conversation rather than just railroading opinions the whole half hour.
"How would you describe Animal Crossing to someone who has never played it before." "
"Chill"
"How else would you describe it?"
"...Chill.."
"...Ok? Any other way to describe it?"
"Chill?"
Melee making the mango losers bracket run!
That's the mango
It's mango is to blow up and act like it don't know nobody
I made this prediction in the comment section where melee lost. Pound 3.5, leeeettttttssss gooooooooo!
There are no "useless" characters if you're just playing Melee at a casual level. Low tier characters are still pretty viable up to mid-level Melee.
And for a competitive level around 16/ 26 characters are viable imo
Yep, local tournaments (or non majors) can potentially be won by any character, even DJ Nintendo Ive heard has farmed some locals with only his Bowser which is arguably the worst character
When items are on and all stages are on at a casual level, I don't really think character choice matter so I heavily agree with you. I played Melee casually until the beginning of 2016. During that time, I beat all of my friends with Link. It didn't really matter if they played Marth or Fox or Puff since our skill levels were so low(in fact, we believed for a long time that Puff was bad.) Someone who's even remotely good at melee can 10 times out of 10 beat a casual with Pichu or Kirby or Bowser.
Their argument of the fact that most characters are unviable probably comes from the fact that tier list memes are very common, making many casual players blame their losses on their character.
I think if anything they should've used the argument of the fact that melee's skill ceiling being high makes it easier for high level players to beat low level players. Even then that doesn't hold much weight since a good smash 4 player could easily beat a casual one, a game with a much lower skill ceiling. That's just how it is with competitive games. I do respect their opinion of not liking melee since I know it's not for everyone, but I think some of their arguments were shaky at best.
I was going to make this comment. They really went on about it like it was some obvious huge flaw in the game, but tiers don't matter if no one can play the game well enough to take advantage of character power disparity.
Their logic is incompatible with each other because they're professing their apathy for the pro/tournament scene and putting casual play on a pedestal, but then knocking off points for problems that only exist in non-casual environments, which they likely wouldn't even know about in the first place if it weren't for the size and success of the pro/tournament scene.
singular on1 even beyond that man. The 2018 top 10 players had a Yoshi and A Pikachu player and those characters are mid-tiers. Plus we still have some top 100 players with amazing lower tier characters like n0ne, Kage and Bizzarob with Ganondorfs, Abate and Eddy Mexico who play Luigi, A-Rookie has a ridiculous Mario, Taj has a high level mewtwo. Really just depends on the players and the matchup to its core. Pika vs Marth is like 60/40 in pika’s favor which is odd since pika is ranked like 9th or 10th on the tier list and marth is 3rd arguably 2nd for some.
10:30 To debate Jared's point, yes, you can do that for any competitive fighting game. Even the sailor moon game. But there is no competitive game this old that people still play today that has numbers like melee. I would say starcraft and maybe mvc2, but Melee definitely has the numbers.
To be fair though, Melee is very likely only as popular a competitive game as it is today because Brawl was NOT, and Brawl being designed the way it was (essentially to be anti-competitive in every way) is what caused players to go back and stick with Melee, starting the competitive scene we see still to this day.
No other fighting game franchise has a scene that primarily plays any game within it that isn't the newest iteration. Street Fighter V, King of Fighters XIV, Tekken 7, Soul Calibur 6, Guilty Gear Xrd Rev2, etc etc, and that's not because the previous games weren't deep enough, but rather because the competitive players didn't have to move on to such an anti-competitive game like Brawl, and thus have to wait out the lifespan of an entire entry in a franchise for the next game, and by the time Smash 4 came out, the ones who passed on Brawl and stuck with Melee were already so deep into it, and Melee also just HAPPENED to have a TON of hidden tech to discover, that there still wasn't any reason to move on for them.
It really can be said for any fighting game. There's still a lot to discover in games like Third Strike, or MVC2, or KOF 98, or SC2, but the only difference between those games and Melee is those game franchises weren't essentially sabotaged by their developers, forcing competitive players to stay where they were before as opposed to moving on. I think Melee is a phenomenal competitive game, moreso than most others honestly in the amount of actual depth to it, but I don't think that was why people stuck with it (initially) as opposed to moving on to the next game, which is what should naturally happen with fighting games.
@@noctorock The competitive scene existed before Brawl.
@@Nizondo it did for sure, but it really blew up around the time of Brawl's release.
If Brawl was designed with the same iterative mindset that every other fighting game franchise was, Melee would have died then and there, no question. Everyone would have moved on to Brawl, and we'd likely only ever see Melee played in small side tournaments like all the other 20 or so year old fighting games.
@@noctorock That's fair. I wonder how popular Melee would be right now had it lost to Skullgirls in the Evo 2013 donation drive; that was pretty much the first time I really realized there was a scene for it. I hope False finally finishes the Brawl documentary.
@@Nizondo that moment too was the second (and probably biggest) big kickstarter for Melee as a competitive game. A competitive game lives on not just through it's players, but it's spectators as well, and the spectators willing to tune in to Melee since then has skyrocketed to the point that it's consistently one of if not THE most viewed event at any tournament.
I think if Skullgirls had won, Melee would still have a scene, but I think it would have a much higher hill to climb to get to where it is now.
You guys should do a madness season for Zelda games
A lot of people call out bias for the show and that is the single easiest subject to put bias on display short of Pokemon games. So I don't think it's a good idea.
I think they should do a genre type thing were they pull games from a genre and compare them.
Ruger Vids that would be great
Yo that would be sick.
At this point I’ll be happy if they do another season of Madness on anything
I'm not voting for Animal Crossing, because
*_It's Not Melee_*
Animal Crossing is amazing, how dare you!?
Christopher Moon Hello again Christopher
Christopher Moon Fair enough
One thing they got to talk about is how melee doesn’t just have an amazing soundtrack, but it’s one of the only games on GC or this bracket that let you scroll thru all the music (and sound effects even) and choose which tracts to listen to in the background. Amazing feature put in just for the players to enjoy even when they’re not actually playing
Also mention how well designed and thoughtful the training mode in melee is, allowing worse players who cared a chance to play at 2/3rds,1/3, or 1/4 speed to see what inputs had to be done and what combos were possible
19:25 Austin
Buddy
What have you done?!?!??!
First wind waker
Now this?!?!?
No!!!!!! 😭
Danny Birman I love PBG but in Madness I hate him.
Kevin Rios I don’t hate him in madness
It’s just....
.....
He’s DUMB HERE
It's like picking my favorite child, that child being Melee
Haven’t finished the video yet but the amount of praise they’re giving Animal Crossing against Smash is mind boggling. I will be sad if they vote against Smash.
Well shit, I can’t believe it. PBG just went off the rails.
And Animal Crossing is like the red headed step child
'I think melees better then ultimate'
@@BradsGonnaPlay He just doesnt like fighting games that much
Pbg rocking that putt putt drip
Just wanted to say that I really love this series and the discussion is always really fun to listen to. Thanks guys!
I don't get why Animal Crossing fans are complaining. There was clearly a good discussion and everyone was as objective as possible (100% objective statements are impossible) including the shocking PBG vote. FF9 on the other hand... (no, I'm never letting that one go)
rip ff9 :,(
The ideas were really passed around the room in this episode. Everything felt so fleshed out. My favourite episode so far, and I still have lots to catch up on.
I gotta say I am very happy PBG did not take the easy W for one of his favorite games; shows a lot of character and smash is the logical choice to move on.
I'm glad these seasons are back up
just a thought for this shows future episodes - it'd be cool if you guys showed the entire bracket up to this point instead of just which games are facing off, so we can get a quick visualization of what has happened/whats down the line.
You guys should do a bracket for indie games!
(I’ve commented this a few times, and a lot of people seem to like the idea. Although the main complaint I see is that it’s too broad of a topic. My argument against that is EVERY topic they do is broad. As for another addition, I like the idea for this since I’m not sure who would win. The guys wouldn’t have any nostalgia goggles, and I feel it would be a pretty balanced bracket. Just my thoughts)
Yeah, this would be a great idea. Maybe narrow it down to different genres, or keep it broad and have the community vote on what games to include? Overall, this is a great idea and opens up different indie games to everyone.
The biggest issue with this topic is that it's broadness is a different type of broad. Every game currently is from a single console, every cartoon has been from a single decade. That narrows it down to a ten year span at most. Looking at indie games they've spanned many console generations, and are an entirely different beast. For example if you're comparing Bastion to Battle for Wesnoth you have 2 good games, with one just getting better and better after nearly 16 years of updates now. Does Minecraft count as an indie game anymore since Microsoft bought them out? Do you only count the content from before Microsoft bought them?
It sounds like a good idea. It maybe better to limit it by indie games released in 2013-2018.
J Farischon then games like cave story and super meat boy can’t be on it :/
The thing is though, often enough they are much lesser known. With stuff like nintendo games, even if you didnt play through all of them, often enough you still can have an opinion or know why it wasnt for you if you didnt play them. I dont think the same is true for a lot of indie games.
I would like to see something like FNAF vs the binding of isaac though.
The fact that almost every point for melee was viewership, and animal crossing’s were actually about the game speaks much more about the quality of the games than the result of this video
Sorry bout it
None of them play Melee or know anything competitive about Melee to explain it good enough, but they all know that it is big and very popular because of that
I respect Austin a lot for voting on what he believed was the better game. While the series is usually pretty subjective on what people like/dislike, watching Austin go completely against his own preference and vote for the game he thought deserved it earns my respect. Also
You know it’s bad when Lee has to look extremely biased towards melee because literally no else is saying anything good about it
Melee is a legendary game well outside of the just the GameCube.
In no way have I been waiting all day for this video....
I'm amazed that any of them thought Animal Crossing would be bigger than Smash for streaming. How out of touch do you have to be with the world to not notice the IMMENSE popularity of Smash streaming?
Chill can never compete with Hype for viewership.
Zelda's Adventure vs Superman 64. Let's bring some Game Grumps and Proton Jon action to this Madness party.
A bad game bracket would actually be pretty fun
The best media debate is fun, but I'd love it if they alternated between Bests and Worsts. Let's see some arguments for why Bubsy 3D is worse than Superman 64. Or why Calendar Man is worse than Condiment King.
Id be really happy with the grumps on here
Bring chuggaaconroy on for superstar and do worst games
Wtf is "Zelda's Adventure"? That's not even a thing
17:36 give Shane some thug life sunglasses.
I keep looking at that dragon quest slime in the back every episode thinking how i seriously need that in my room
Shane looks so pissed.. xD
Wow.... those numbers for watch time are not even close.
Not knocking Animal Crossing of course, but just on the face of it those Melee watch hours are INSANE.
Yes... although it just comes back to what Jeff was saying, that animal crossing is not precisely a watchable game. Which shouldn't be a knock against it
it's not necessarily a knock against AC. However it proves to show that Melee has significantly more staying power than something like the original AC which is important.
17:35 This man has had every correct opinion in this bracket so far. Annoyed that Pikmin 2 didn't take its rightful place here, but at least Melee made it to the top. Super surprised that PBG didn't vote for Animal Crossing. Newfound respect for him.
I think I would have said the same thing as PBG. I love Animal Crossing and have probably put way more hours into it than Melee. That being said, I can't argue against Melee being one of the most well-done experiences of all time.
The later games are better for 95% of Smash players, but they build on the foundation that came from Melee. Melee added more mechanics to Smash than any other game in the series, even with its rushed development cycle. Animal Crossing has an amazing wealth of things to do and collect, but even that seems shallow compared to the depth of Melee.
Next season of Madness. Comparing Apples to Oranges. Which fruit will rise to the top. This is MADNESS!!!
Animal Crossing loses because Austin outplayed himself. Literally no other reason.
It lost cuz it's not as good as melee
It should have lost in the first place. Jeff and Jared's argument were pretty bad honestly. Their whole perception of half the characters being bad is based on the competitive scene, but then they just disregard it as a niche. But Then how did they know what characters are bad. Nobody seemed to think so when the game out. Also Jared arguing that you need friends to play a MULTIPLAYER game as negative is by far one of the worst arguments I've ever seen on the show. They mention it was rushed, but literally explain what was specifically rushed about it either.
While I see what your saying, a multiplayer game being less fun alone is a valid argument when being faced against a single player game, they brought up the negatives of animal crossing's multiplayer so smash's single player is fair game
@@warpbait2 They shouldn't have mentioned Animal Crossing multiplayer either, it was less than 5% of what that game was and there was a ton they didn't talk about in Animal Crossing that was way more important. Deciding on what game is objectively better, it's completely unfair to just say multiplayer is worse because it requires friends, it's just a bad argument. Even worse they don't even touch on Melee's single player at all the entire video.
It lost because he recognized that personal taste does not dictate good and bad
I genuinely don't understand in what ways Melee is supposed to feel rushed. It's so feature complete and well made that I would never have guessed that it was made in such a short span of time.
It's rushed because a number of its character roster is so copy/paste and uninspired with the clones.
Lol the game doesn’t work at all
I'm not always a fan of PBG, and some of his arguments in previous brackets have physically hurt me, but today he brought out the best in everyone. He stood his ground, made great points, changed how people were looking at the conversation, and then he cast a vote he could look back on and be proud of. Good job, peebs.
This has been such a great season i am sad to see it ending soon! I hope we get to see Jeff in some more of these brackets as well he has been a great addition to the cast!
haha why is it that austin is always in the intro highlights? whyyy whoooo
Idea: 1 on 1 exhibition matches. Only two people at the table and they each have to defend one game. This wouldn't be a series but an episode or two between seasons.
My two favorite GameCube games in the finals? Yes please
Agreed
Wow, that was so surprising to see Peebs vote against Animal Crossing, since he's been pining for the game this whole bracket.
Especially since Jeff and Jared voted for it, and Animal Crossing would have made it to the grand finals with Peebs' vote. What a crazy turnaround of events!
I think the end of this episode was a huge wake up call for Jared. Dude was really convinced that animal crossing brings in more viewers than competitive melee and the numbers overwhelmingly proved otherwise.
That was such a ridiculous statement, I always thought that Jared was the most "clear headed" in these discussions but he made very weird points in this one
@@dmengel1 I knew he was wrong, but when someone doesn't actively look for smash tournies they see what they are looking for. Hence Jared saying that.
It was completely irrelevant to the conversation too, because they were talking about the new Animal Crossing. In fact the entire episode was spent comparing smash to the Animal Crossing franchise instead of just the GC one. Animal Crossing gained a majority of it's following from Wild World on DS, just look at the sales numbers. The GC one sold 2.32 million and Wild World sold 11.75 million.
I think he was talking more about his own audience rather than just in general, which is true of any streamer. Jared and PBG are known for their love of Animal Crossing so of course they'll attract an audience who loves Animal Crossing too. That's why their stream numbers are so high when ever they play the game. The same can be said of a well-known Smash player whenever they stream Smash. I think they took their own audience bias as a general statement when it comes to stream numbers, which was a misconception on their part.
"Have you seen those Cloud 9 Animal Crossing plays" -Jeff 2019
That was the best commentary I ever heard!
To be honest I'm not too big on either games but to say the smash competitive scene is niche especially when compared to a niche game such as Animal Crossing made absolutely no sense. Lee already showed the facts post recording and I'm glad he did because pushing the annoying smash memes aside, Melee's community alone is bigger than Animal Crossing.
im definitely glad he added in the numbers in post to show just how much the argument that "comp smash is niche compared to ac" was unfounded nonsense based on their personal feeling.
@@Shoddragon I agree man that comment didn't make any sense especially since Animal Crossing is still a smaller Nintendo franchise when compared to smash.
Calling any of the games niche is nonsense.
Online smash has the bigger community, but in terms of how many people actually play the game themselves, animal crossing is bigger. Just because more people watch twitch streams of a game doesn’t mean more people play that game.
@@Stacko1515 Melee is niche, smash bros in general is. And animal crossing is very niche. Yes, everybody knows about it, but the playerbase is what you take into account when you day something is niche.
Shane’s face at 11:30 is my face as Animal Crossing is somehow in the Losers Final
Thank goodness, Melee won. That was way closer than it should’ve been.
I agree with Jared's point on explaining the charm of Smash to non-gamer friends. I once tried to encourage a group of Wii players to try Brawl after playing Raving Rabbids, and basically, they saw me play a single match, and stated its too complicating.
Are there any plans to do Madness brackets on the Nintendo mobile consoles as well at some point?
I hope the SNES madness is next!!! Terranigma better be on that list as well!!
That would be amazing! But even if a season of SNES madness were to happen, I don't think Terranigma would be voted on there since the majority of the audience of Madness is probably North American and they didn't get Terranigma, i.e. it's not representative of the system for the majority of players (I would assume that Final Fantasy III and/or Chrono Trigger would make it on a potential list). But it's probably the very best Action RPG on that system.
Link to the past would be champion surely
Chris Beach if we had a snes madness im calling the roster now.
Super Mario World
Link to The Past
Super Metroid
Kirby Super Star
Super Mario Kart
Street Fighter 2 Turbo
Either DKC1 or 2 both are dope
Super Mario RPG
Starfox
Fzero
Turtles in time
Earthbound
Final Fantasy 2 or 3
@@whalenator1453 great list but I'd replace street fighter with Chrono Trigger only because that was on Sega. Theres enough SNES exclusives that you could have a larger bracket
@@shouryuuken4147 well seinken densetsu 3 aka secret of Mana 2 is another great action RPG, SD3 or Terrinigma doesn't make the list then they better call the madness "USA SNES games" there are so many great games that never got localized. I think the SNES bracket madness should be 32 games honestly
What a twist
I came into this episode with a lot of anxiety about AC getting dismissed (not even a fan of the franchise either honestly) and PBG having to uphill battle just to get everybody else to acknowledge what he thought were it's strengths, but I was glad to see everybody actually consider his words and Smash didn't just steamroll it. We could have had another Ape Escape here, but we didn't. I appreciate that.
Personally, even for the multiplayer aspects of both games, I thoroughly enjoyed Animal Crossing more with my brothers and sister. In Melee, being the oldest, I was always better than the rest of my family and it made it less fun when I had to be handicapped all the time just so the others could enjoy it just as much. In Animal Crossing, we were always waiting for our turns, sending mail to each other with junk we were trying to get rid of, and all kinds of other shenanigans that we could all enjoy despite our age differences. While I do think that Melee is the "better" game, I still prefer Animal Crossing over it for pretty much every argument made for it in this video. I am not saying that it should have won or anything like that, just giving some personal background on the two games.
Awesome video, I have been enjoying the entire season!
The real Madness is the panel of 5 Austins that are arguing inside his own head as the show goes on.
I can't prove it, but Austin voted smash cause they wouldn't be able to have a Grand Finale with Paper Mario vs Animal since it's already been done in the bracket.
Tristan R. I buy it
The look of betrayal on Jared’s face says it all.
im soo proud of austin, such a mature dude :3, you are the winner of this one dude.
Peebs that was so cool, you’re the man
It wouldn't be Melee if it didn't make the sickest loser's bracket run of all time.
That data about viewership was fascinating
WTF AUSTIN!? Really though, I feel the same way. I would have been shocked if Melee didn't at least win the loser's bracket, even though I love Animal Crossing
Oh Austin... you had one job, and you executed it nicely
I was afraid of this result, but I hope Paper Mario can pull through nonetheless!
Lee sounded legitimately surprised when he said he was proud of PBG.
i wanna point out this tidbit. best part of this season to me is just the fact that jeff is there. everyone else is super obviously going to choose someone from minute 1. jeff is always asking both sides and isnt always easy to read, and that keeps this interesting. keep jeff in! hes a great wildcard!
To claim that animal crossing has a large twitch viewership as compared to MELEE is absolutely absurd. Tournament or not. Melee is being streamed constantly with good viewership. Animal crossing just can’t compete in that way.
This should be the shortest episode
Welp this is gonna be a blowout
No one can ever question Austin’s objectivity ever again on this show.
I'd like to see Gameboy Advance games next.
Personally i want to see SNES next, but only if Projared is involved.
I mean, Golden Sun will just win losers and winners, since round one it'll face itself, and then it'll be a golden grand finals
The fact that this came to a tie for Lee to break is pretty silly because Animal Crossing absolutely does not hold a candle to Smash, ever.
Animal Crossing, at least the first one was an innovative take on the life simulation genre. I honestly consider it a precursor to all of the mobile simulation games. Having said that I realize that most of those games are designed with a pay to play mechanic. But Animal Crossing, when it came out, offered a sense of escapism that not many games provided. Because you were playing something in which you had no restrictions (aside from paying off your debt to Tom Nook of course), your character was defined by who YOU were as a person. While I have to admit that I liked City Folk more, it exists because of how good the reaction to the GameCube version was.
I rep the right side of the room hard. Jared and Austin
Do one on JRPG’s plz
Like contenders could be like Chrono Trigger, FF6 or 7, Suikoden 2, Xenogears, Dragon Quest (not sure which one is the most beloved), Pokémon Gold & Silver, Earthbound, Skies of Arcadia, Secret of Mana, Wild Arms, etc etc
Sad to see them not understand how in depth melee is as a fighting game.
Boy do we have a match on our hands for the finals.
NOOOOOOOOOO😨
ET TU PBG?
How could you do this to me, you guys built my hopes up then YOU sent them crashing down!😭
I'm not going to lie I love all fighting games like melee and don't care for animal crossing games at all but I am proud of this panel for giving animal crossing a fair shake and not just acting like melee was the superior game all along and thank you Austin for pulling a Caddy there at the end and voting against the game he was championing it was kind of cool
PBG says “my wife” and I’m like “your WHAT.”
...What the hell just happened? I feel like my entire life is a lie.
It’s chill! You get to talk to people, pay mortgage and have minimal impact on the chill world around you! It’s so relaxing and fun and you get to play it twice a week! Fun game, so chill! It’s a chill game!
"Cause none of us are very competitive" - Forrest as he looks at Jeff
"Well, I like to be good at games" - Jeff 😂
this is going to be MADNESS
As a kid I was a big fan of the N64 Smash Bros. When the gamecube era happened, I had both Melee and Animal Crossing. I got bored of Melee very quickly, and didn't like it nearly as much as the first game. Animal Crossing is my favorite game for the GC still to this day. It's still the best AC in my opinion.
I love Melee it's not my personal favorite game on the Gamecube, but i have to say this. When it comes to the Gamecube Melee generated more hype than any other game. It was the best selling game on the console. It was one of the most freely creative games in the library. It has the best Multiplayer experience on the system, and it's tournament and mass popularity lifespan now triples the production lifespan of the console it was released on. The Gamecube had some amazing games, but no other game has as much claim to fame. So even though it's not my favorite, and it can be a little rough around the edges. When I ask myself what game defined being the best on the Gamecube the answer is quintessentially Melee.
I've been having trouble finding the name of the song that plays during PBG's final stance and vote. I know the artists are in the description but I'm still having a hard time. If anyone would happen to know off the top of their head? I thank you in advance.
I also feel strangely proud of PBG. It takes a certain kind of honor to let go of your very favorite thing, when you could have made it won, just because you recognize Melee vs Paper Mario is the way to go in terms of a final match.
me on feb 21st: I can't watch youtube toaday to much work
me on feb 28th: I don't have to watch the previous video I can imagine how it went
me on mar 1st: HOLLY SHIT top 10 anime betrayals is back. THIS IS MADNESS!
My overall vibe of this season seems to be less about the games and more about just how many things can go wrong on this new set each episode. I think it was the last episode where like three pads fell off of the ceiling and wall. Now, we have the TV just shutting off and the camera just lingering on Furst for too long. I don't dislike the new set, but I am a little disappointed with how clumsy this new one feels. Also, I kinda miss all of the funny special effects from the first season. Personally, I think I just really liked the cross table chat setting of the earlier seasons better.
What PBG calls "chill" is just boring to me, I think pikmin is way mote chill.
Yay! We finally get an anime reference!
Melee and TTYD are legit picks for the two best games on the 'Cube, though I'd personally put Pikmin 1 ahead of TTYD. Hope the big final lives up to the hype!
Big props to Austin, this is the second time he is objective and votes against his own preferences. The arguments and reasoning has been so much better this season compared to n64 madness
It was breath of fresh air seeing PBG, be honest with himself and recognize melee, even if its not his personal favorite
The two games I absolutely think are my favorites get into the GC finals.
Austin pulling the move nobody else can do.
This only confirms my idea that these guys would make a great D&D group. These guys just have the perfect personalities.
Wow, PBG, you had Animal Crossing locked in as the Losers Bracket winner.
What do you guys do with the four games that lost in the semi finals