While I dont have a strong opinion either way I see how PBG would think the point of comparing the "best" paper mario game to the "worst" animal crossing game would be moot. Say you take the "best" Bubsy game and put it against the "worst" zelda game. The zelda game would still be better then the bubsy game with means comparing to other games in the franchise would be an odd point to make. That being said, I think the vote was fair even though I love animal crossing and this series just keeps getting better.
I'd add another point to Paper Mario. Paper Mario does end, but that only makes it more satisfying than Animal Crossing. You can also do different runs in Paper Mario, giving it more replayability. You can do a no badge run. You can do a run without increasing health. So on and so forth.
I was rooting for you Peebs. Animal Crossing music is good to listen to even when you are not playing the game. Not to mention the countless awesome NES games.
You probably should have mentioned the hundreds upon hundreds of different items in the game that is made all the more impressive by the fact that the entire game fits into the GameCube's RAM. All those shirts, guitars, clocks, THE WHEAT PATCH (you know you made a whole room filled with wheat patches at least once, don't you lie to me), all those furniture models and everything. You can start the game, remove the disc, and keep playing without it. Everything works fine. Also might have been good to bring up that talking to villagers more sort of makes them more comfortable with you, and you get attached to your villagers. There is character development created just by making a friend. Especially with the Able sisters. I was really hoping for at least one more vote for Animal Crossing, and I really hoped the music could have been explained a bit more, but it is what it is. Have a nice day dude, and random people reading the comments.
PBG could've mentioned how you do set your own goals in Animal Crossing after starting. You get rewarded by playing everyday even for a little bit and getting closer to that goal. It's an afternoon game where you put it in just to wind down before playing other games. He also could've made the counter argument that Paper Mario suffers from poor pacing and RPG Syndrome (where it gets slower towards the end and the story/game play feels padded out for time. Not that this would help him win. This was just fighting a battle already lost.
@Voidaken Yeah, it's like Animal Crossing is the opening act to get you into the mood of playing video games before you move onto the main game you wanna play that day.
Thats also the point jared was trying to make. AC is a game of long term progression, so playing all day can only increase that progression until you've finished all of your "dailies", for lack of a better phrase. But what I think Austin was struggling to say is that animal crossing supersedes being a game, instead its a virtual life. I understand Austin's point of being a lonely kid, I've developed emotional attachment to video games growing up, and AC is a perfectly crafted game that fills that psychological need... whereas paper mario is just another variation of the RPG genre... That being said, i think paper mario was the better game. It's a more direct and unified user experience, unlike animal crossing which can be a hit or a miss based solely on the players willingness to create a virtual lifestyle.
not to mention RPGs have a really hard time keeping a difficulty curve, most RPGs (and let me know if 1000 year door is any different) like making you feel like you're getting more powerful and so endgame is ridiculously easy
I feel bad for PBG, but it was a losing fight no matter how good his agruement would have been. 1000 Year Door is where the Paper Mario series peaked. Where as Animal Crossing was a humble beginning to a really great series.
@@pathogenofdecay Those people must be blind to nostalgia. Technologically speaking, the AC games have only ever gotten better. Also, the Gamecube version had the stupidest method of fossil collecting. Like, you dig up a fossil, mail it to someone, then get it back the next day, to do whatever with, as opposed to the newer games, where you dig up a fossil, get it identified immediately, to do whatever with.
Both games give the feels. Both games have incredible music. Both games have a charming art style. Both games have people still playing them. Both games have beloved characters. *THIS IS HARD*
Only problem I see is you calling them both games, really. Animal crossing is less game and more experience, considering it has no fail state, no skill checks, and no victory condition
@@BlueDavrial I'm talking about Tom Nook, Resetti, K.K. Slider, Rover, Copper, Kapp'n, Redd, Tortimer, Blathers, Pete, Joan, Gulliver, and the other *_permanent_* characters. Most of the villagers are... eh. But don't pretend everyone in the game is one of those.
It isn't hard. There are Animal Crossing games that include more content, more items, more tasks, more holidays, more references. TTYD is the best game in its series, on its console, and potentially in its entire subgenre.
@@I38VWI But you can't consider future games in the series when debating the best GameCube game. Why should TTYD get points just because the series has gotten worse? And why should New Leaf bring down Animal Crossing? This is just about GameCube games. I mean, TTYD *_is_* the better game, but that argument doesn't make sense.
@@bbreimm Oh your completely right, I just know how much Jared likes the Harvest Moon series as does PBG, but PBG straight up called it a lesser Animal Crossing. And Jared's reaction was just so honest.
Couldn't agree more, I still dream of a Paper Mario that goes back to its roots. Funny dialouge, interesting characters, partners, unique environments and a traditional combat system. Why is it so hard to follow this up and beef it up a bit?
As much as I LOVE Animal Crossing, Paper Mario TTYD has to take it for me. Animal Crossing was a great start to an amazing series, probably my favorite series of all time, but TTYD is arguably my favorite GC game of all time and it’s truly something special.
Animal crossing is way better that Paper Mario TTYD for the simple fact that you could play the greatest hits on the original Nintendo games within the game.
There is a chapter in Paper Mario TTYD where a man in a bedsheet and party hat steals your identity via shapeshifting and you have to recover your body and team-mates by figuring out bed-sheet man’s name rumplstiltskin style and fight him on top of a clock tower.
yeah that part was amazing, funny how you left out how you still had to run back and forth through the forest at least 4 times even if you already know the name which hurts future and even the current playthrough
@@livchamps9573 i don't see how you interpreted my comment as me overracting. You literally have to: -go halfway into the forest to get the key -head back to get the rolling ability -go to the creepy steeple to fight doopliss -go back to get vivian -forwards again to get the missing letter -back again to say the name -finally you go back to the creepy steeple to finish the chapter. You probably have to go back and forth even more times if its your first time playing and every time you go through that one screen doopliss pops out of the moon to say "wrongamundo" wasting even more time. Dude, I love TTYD but mentioning the concept of the chapters as if they automatically made the game better just for being there is an incredible disservice to both games.
If this was New Leaf vs Paper Mario TTYD, I would have a hard time deciding. But Jared's point is very true, the original AC didn't have a lot you could do every day past the intro. I would argue that it would definitely provide more than just 10 minutes a day, it would keep me interested for at least an hour each day, but after that hour is up there would actually be nothing to do unless you time travel
The second time PBG says "Mute point" Shane has a look like "I guess that wasn't just a mistake the first time he said it... he actually thinks the saying is 'Mute point'."
Paper Mario TTYD is a game with cool moments. Animal Crossing is a game made up of moments. There are very few "hype as ****" moments, because it isn't a game that builds hype. It never was designed to. It's a game for people exploring and doing things. It's a game for hunting down that last fossil. It's a game for trying to catch that rare fish or bug. It's a game built around the small things in the game. Animal Crossing is a game that paces itself very slowly, because it is a chill game. It's impossible to say Paper Mario has better side quests. Animal Crossing is built of side quests. In the same way, Paper Mario has a better main story, but Animal Crossing isn't a game that has a main story. Paper Mario limits you in that there is a finite story. Paper Mario limits you in that there isn't much reason to retread old ground other than the occasional and unusual paper mechanic you didn't have before. Animal Crossing limits you in unique activities per day. You can only find so many fossils, the shop's stock once per day, and the events of someone showing up happens once per day. Paper Mario does the same thing, but in a different way. You can do side quests, retread ground, or progress the story, and that's your limit. Animal Crossing, however, also always gives you access to be creative. You can customize your house in a completely different way. You can redistribute and fully design your town (except other villager's houses and shops) to suit your aesthetic or financial goals of the game. Paper Mario TTYD is an amazing game. Animal Crossing is an amazing of a game as you make it. I'm not sure if that makes Animal Crossing a better game than Paper Mario for everyone, but it definitely was for me.
If only your argument for "Animal Crossing" were expressed fully in the video. You ended with the one point I would emphasize: "Animal Crossing" will appeal more than "Paper Mario: TTYD" to certain individuals, including many non-gamers, and it definitely gets credit for that. It filled or at least greatly expanded a lacking niche in gaming. "Paper Mario: TTYD" and "Animal Crossing" both provide great gaming experiences, but extremely different experiences. People can enjoy and even love both, but most will prefer one or the other. I personally prefer the experience of "Paper Mario: TTYD." :)
I never cared for the AC games, (ironically I love to play Isabelle in smash and Mario Kart) but I really enjoyed reading about what makes it special for you. You explained it very coherently and succinctly. Thanks for sharing!
In reality, the games are from different genres and offer vastly different experiences that are difficult to directly compare or contest without clear definitions of what makes something better. So, for all the talk and debate, this entire production boils down to a popularity contest with a notably limited demographic of voters and an arbitrary choice of candidates. Points are made, but the score means nothing. That said, what happened to PBG is the consequence. He made points, but no one acknowledged them because instead of arguing in the objective, the argument is subjective, he got put on the defensive with an unpopular opinion, got flustered, and we got to watch Jared's thin patience for fools manifest as he endured the situation while Peebs got increasingly put off. Proud of Shane for handling things as well as he did, could have gone worse otherwise. Feel bad for Peebs. Also, for the GameCube era? As an RPG PMtTYD is fun, but I think there are better ones. However, as a casual simulation game Animal Crossing was a unique and enjoyable experience that arguably bettered players by encouraging a degree of mindfulness, community, and routine. Maybe it wasn't as gratifying or exciting as a traditional game, but that wasn't the point. But again, none of this makes one 'better' than the other.
I think what makes Animal Crossing stand out the most to me as my most special game I've ever played was how for the first time MY ENTIRE FAMILY played it together. I was in grade school and my Mom, Sister, and 2 Cousins all played it. It was an experience we all shared and for the first time would compete over who got GameCube time every day. We would work together and complete objectives in our town like filling the museum or planting new fruit trees. We would hunt for missing pieces of furniture from another players collection and exchange it for bells or items we needed. We would each fill our houses to the brim with fish tanks on the days that Nook was remodeling. We would all mourn the loss of a favorite villager who moved. And lastly, we would fight over who got to listen to K.K. each week. It was the perfect family game and I'll never forget how great it was to experience it together. That is the reason I will always look fondly on it and buy the latest iteration when my daughter is old enough to share that same family gaming experience.
Really not seeing Jared's point about AC only being fun for the first few hours. I had more enjoyment and fulfillment the longer I played it. At first you have very limited means of accomplishing goals, but the longer you play, the more you acquire. He says it limits you, but there is enough content for you to "binge" on any day, whether you want to play with that content is up to you. I agree with the outcome that TTYD is most definitely the better game, but really disagree with the points made by both sides in this one.
Who doesn’t like being nice to their villagers everyday? It’s an adorable and relaxing game, but I guess if you’re playing the game for the different objectives the game gives you instead of giving yourself objectives based on in-game interactions, you might not like it very much.
I think they missed the point of subtle gameplay. I can go and play animal crossing and literally just walk around my town, or sit on a bench, or do any other small/simple task and enjoy it so much. Animal crossing is a feeling. Animal crossing is waking up on Saturday morning as a kid to watch cartoons. I'm sure the people who love this game will agree, animal crossing is just pure innocent childlike wonder. Before anyone attacks me, I'm not saying it's a better game than paper Mario because animal crossing isn't a game to me. It's just an experience.
I should be happy that Paper Mario TTYD won but the arguments for it are left to be desired. For one, I wish Shane could of elaborated about the battle system. How does Paper Mario TTYD's battle system set apart than any RPG battle system? He and the others talked how fun it was to have an audience participate and throw stuff at you (whether it's helpful or harmful) but they didn't discuss about the player appealing to the crowd to get SP (Star Points) or the gambling aspect of a battle; A high risk or reward situation that can be a game changer. They could of also rebuttaled PBG's argument about the game not being replayable. There's the side quests if you avoid it or forget about it that give you rewards, there is the casino which you can play minigames (you need to do certain side quests first in order to unlock them tho), and there is the infamous Hundred Pit Trial which is an endurance test that challenge your abilities, and getting missable collectables (Although this last point is a waste of time because the game doesn't reward you if you collect every badge in the game, complete every tattle log or complete recipes). Highlighting certain parts of the game does NOT explain why it makes a game good. Okay, I know Shane is passionate about the game (it's very clear by the way he talks about it) but he needs to explain why Paper Mario TTYD is beloved by so many people (myself included) and a good GameCube game. Same goes for Animal Crossing. I understand PBG points but he needs to explain himself more (if they let him of course lmao). I just wished they didn't compare Animal Crossing on the GameCube to it's predecessors. Of course the game isn't as good as the others, but it's still a good GameCube game. It's impressive how much you can do in Animal Crossing (especially when a holiday rolls around/events). This matchup did make me anxious ahaha! Both games really mean a lot to me 💜
I was actually playing animal crossing last year when I broke my wrist. My fingers got strong quickly, but my thumb was very stiff and sore because I had a plate and 5 screws put in. It was the perfect game for rehabbing my thumb, you walk around a lot but don't do a lot of sudden movements, and it encourages you to play for small bits a day every day. When I would tell people I was playing animal crossing the way I would describe it is that it's a game that you don't play for a long time, but you play consistently. All that being said, I played well after my hand recovered, caught all the bugs and fish (had to time travel for a couple,) payed off my house, and saved almost 10 million bells before I got bored of turnip trading and pulling weeds. The first game is quite limited, but I got a solid 4 months of enjoyment out of it, which is more than I could say for paper mario... but paper mario is still a better game, and I've never played it lol.
I agree that TTYD is better, but I wish that when they were talking about Animal Crossing’s repetitive gameplay, someone brought up how much backtracking TTYD has. It hurts the gameplay a bit.
"backtracking" no not really. It's an RPG designed to feel like it has a world that matters. The backtracking, if anything, makes the world feel lived in and important, instead of a setpiece you just ignore after completing it.
I'd say the biggest offender is obviously chapter 7. It's played for laughs to poke fun at the genre, but I think it takes the joke a bit too far. It's everyone's least favorite part of the game, but I don't think it hurts the game enough to make it lose this matchup.
I agree even though I like TTYD. I actually don't mind the backtracking in Chapter 4 or 7 despite those being infamous. My main backtracking problem is Chapter 5 which not a lot of people point out. However the game is so well put together that it's worth looking past that.
OH BOY! I sure liked pressing A one hundred times to listen to a plant say "I love you" to someone else and you can't forget that super exciting and amazing part where you searched for a moustached bomb throughout every area of the game, that was sure a highlight. But my absolute favorite part has to be running back and forth looking for the letter "p".
I feel bad for PBG on this one. I choose Paper mario in this matchup, but animal crossing is definitely something that is fun to play in an entirely different way than a lot of the other games in this bracket. It's laidback, it's relaxing, it's cute, it's exciting in some places, and it goes at its own pace. I feel like it's less that the game "forces" you to play at certain times or for a certain amount of time, and more just lets the events happen or gives you things to do when it wants to. I do wish it had more to do, but for what the game does offer, it's pretty fun to me. Sorry I didn't root for your game in this one PBG, but I'm definitely with you on the merits of Animal Crossing. It's its own unique flavor of fun.
I'm the same, and I hope in my comment about why I thought Paper Mario should win (before I watched the whole thing), I conveyed that. I like both, but I think Paper Mario is better
There are goals to have such as completing the bug/fish encyclopedias,seeing a statue made for you, achieving the "perfect town" status, maxing out your home size, its a game where you can simply sit down and do as much as you can, scheduling a day to truly get as much as you need done. Its a slow build game where you can step back and see your maxed out house, the full museum, the completed catalog and feel like you accomplished something. You want to go back for one more day to see it all add up, to see your town build up as well as the relationships with your fellow villagers. There are also various smaller events aside from the holidays, you could turn the system on, expecting a normal day only to realize there's buried treasure hidden somewhere in your town, or you talk to Tortimer and be bestowed with lighthouse duty, or you meet Wisp. I also feel like the e card functionality was also glossed over, as it was one of the few games that utilized it. The designs for the NPCs were quirky and cute, and created faces that everyone recognizes regardless of whether or not they have played the games. I feel that it is unfair that a point used against Animal Crossing is that it's not as "good" in comparison to the others, which can also be said for Paper Mario TTYD. Animal Crossing as a franchise is still running, and has been improving bit by bit while still keeping the charm of the original, and still being about a kid who moves in to a new world. While both games are good I feel like the arguments for Animal Crossing were weak and it deserved more discussion, ah well, hope it does well in the loser's bracket!!
@Chic 'N' Stu Providing background comedy while allowing the two main players in a debate to take center stage is absolutely contributing substance. Stepping in more would have only distracted and taken away from the main debate, so Jared literally was amazing in this episode by doing a fantastic job adding something highly enjoyable without taking the spotlight away from Shane and Austin.
TTYD definitely deserved it, but I think Austin missed the chance to say that AC is a much more accessible game thus making it a game anyone can play/like where as TTYD is an RPG and as proven in previous Madness brackets (FF9vsParapa) that genra is super divisive.
I love the passion that is in this episode. This show is great but it would be amazing if every episode had this true passion. You guys did great and kept your cool while still strongly presenting your case. 10/10 guys!!!
That's fair. I think ttyd, wind waker, and smash melee all have a claim to that title. (i'd also argue that fire emblem path of radiance is up there and should have been on the bracket)
Would have said that if Resident Evil 4 wasn't in the bracket. To be fair I love paper mario, probably one of my most favourite rpgs of all time, but RE4 is easily a console seller, shame is it came to every console because it was so good.
I truly think this was the best episode of Madness so far. People actually debated a topic they feel strongly about and while it was everyone ganging up on Austin and Animal Crossing, this matchup was doomed from the start. I'm absolutely loving this series and I really like where it's going.
I agree with Shane. Paper Mario TTYD has my absolute favorite battle system. I loved the audience, and memorizing the style inputs for all of the moves.
The argument about PMTYD being the better one in its franchise and AC not the best kinda hinders the games IMHO. After the Thousand Year Door the Paper Mario Series went downhill whereas Animal Crossing went up.
That doesn’t hinder the game. It shows the excellence of Paper Mario that it’s so great and it couldn’t be topped plus the following games are worse than the original paper Mario too so that doesn’t matter for ttyd and show how good of a game that is because it’s the only game that really is better than the original. Animal crossing was so barebones because it was originally an n64 game so it was on a weaker console and not optimized for the GameCube. But if it’s so easily improved upon by future games that shows how weak the original game is. The argument works much more towards Paper Mario
My opinion is that the original Animal Crossing would conceptually have done better as a Gameboy Advance game. AC is filled with daily, arbitrary tasks that you can do in 10 minutes or so. I equate it to how with more mobile games, like Pokémon GO, in that some players will literally log on just to get their daily catch bonuses and what not. I think if the original AC was on the Gameboy, it would make doing those daily tasks much more convenient and you would likely still have people playing their original file to this day. I understand that it was probably impossible to cram a game like AC on the Gameboy, but that’s why I think Wild World and New Leaf are the best of the best with life sim games. I think, if done well, AC on the Switch will actually be a contender for best Switch game.
@SUPER RAD In this episode he got flustered and didn't make his points clear enough. I would have shot his opinions down too if I was rooting for paper mario. He was an easy target
I feel like the argument of “there’s only so much you can do in Animal Crossing” needed to be made better. It’s a video game, there isn’t unlimited things to do. But honestly it seems like, if you can keep playing animal crossing for 10 minutes a day forever, then it beats Paper Mario. Paper Mario is an rpg with a story. The story ends. But to be fair that point was made during the... high energy part of the video so maybe it could have been made better. Disclaimer: I’ve never played either game or series, I’m not trying to say which should have won.
The problem with the argument that you can play Animal Crossing forever is yeah, you can, but would you really want to? It's not like Minecraft were there is essentially and infinite possibilities of what you can do each time. By a certain point in animal crossing, you will have done everything and there is no incentive to keep going. If your going by that argument, then the quality of a game is judged by it's length and not the quality. Paper Mario is a quality game throughout it's run time while animal crossing is not. There isn't enough content to justify playing endlessly.
@@brianh7302 Oh yeah if it's the only criteria it's not really a good argument at all. Quality over quantity for sure. I was just confused by the point they were trying to make. Specifically Jared around 17:21. It sounds like he's saying, after you've completed your main objective, you can only play for 10 minutes per day. Which if you compare that to Paper Mario, after you beat the story, there's nothing left to do. Games over. So, unless you can complete the main part of Animal Crossing in 10 minutes, the point kind of falls apart.
TTYD is one of the most replayable RPGs I can think of, to be honest. Just look at all of the challenges and character builds you can use to go through the game with. There are plenty of post game/collection things that you can do after you beat the story, also.
I personally believe that TTYD is one of the greatest games ever made. It's a blast to play. The battle system is awesome, the characters are awesome, the writing is awesome, the music is awesome, the setpieces are awesome, the aesthetic is awesome, etc. I've also replayed it quite a bit, and it's always just as fun the next time as it was the last. The only game in the bracket that I think could give it some competition is Wind Waker, and I really hope that that's the final matchup, but even then it's barely a contest for me. Just like everyone said, I do like Animal Crossing. It's a charming, fun game. But I definitely agree with Jared in that it's only fun for small stretches of time. For some people, that's great! When I was a kid, I loved coming back to my town every day to see what changed and what I can do that day. But nowadays that style of game doesn't draw me in much. I bought New Leaf last year and after the initial few hours my motivation to play plummeted.
ANIMAL CROSSING!! After watching as much as I have, I realize it's two of the best games on the system... Still love crossing me some animals. Wish paper mario stayed as good as it was then...
I do appreciate that at the end of these episodes, despite how hard and heated the debate gets, when things calm down they all just say that they like and/or appreciate both games. It makes me happy to hear the positivity that these experiences bring even though the point of the show is to make one game rank above the rest.
The Thousand-Year Door is a story about stories. Prologue: You become a hero...again Chapter 1: You become a Knight Chapter 2: You become a guardian angel Chapter 3: You become a wrestler Chapter 4: You become an outcast/nobody (edited) Chapter 5: You become a sailor/treasure tracker (edited) Chapter 6: You become a detective Chapter 7: You become an astronaut Chapter 8: You become the savior of all people and the world. Epilogue: (Finish anything you didn’t previously) Animal Crossing is a simulation about life... Whole game: You become a villager and do the same stuff over and over again
For Chapter 4, I wouldn't really say ghost hunter. Sure there is a mansion with boos, but the idea of the chapter is more that you get your identity stolen I'd say more like "You become a nobody" or "You become an outcast" Chapter 5 had the pirate theme, but Mario never really felt like a pirate himself. Although I don't really know what else to say. I guess he would be a treasure hunter?
The arguments against Animal Crossing were terrible. I agree that Paper Mario TTYD is the better game but Animal Crossing is a unique and valuable experience. I don’t think Animal Crossing got a fair shake in this discussion at all. Kinda disappointed in how they shamed Animal Crossing pretty heavily.
Animal crossing is hardly a game. No fail state, no skill checks, no victory conditions. It's a fantastic experience, definitely, I've sunk minimum 3 digits in hours into the original, but that doesn't change my opinion
This was a great episode haha Peebs I think the point they’re trying to make is that in an average play session you run out of ways to actually make progress in Animal Crossing after a certain amount of time. You can only dig up so many fossils and catch so many fish before you get to the point where it’s mundane (regardless of how relaxing or chill it may be). The act of making actual progress becomes more and more miniscule with each play session as you accomplish all of your goals. Also something no one said (but Jeff kimd of alluded to) is that Animal Crossing manufactures replayability in a manipulative way. Regardless of whether or not you want to play Animal Crossing every day, you basically HAVE to otherwise your favorite villager may move away or your town gets overrun with weeds. So you get stuck in the awkward limbo of playing to avoid your town going to crap but running out of things to do, but you don’t want to restart because then all of your hard earned progress is gone
I agree that Paper Mario is the better game. Jared had many good points as to why the amount of time you play Animal Crossing over the course of the game, considering the idea that you basically run out of things to do. I'd rather the linearity of a game like Paper Mario that provides me with good writing, characters, and different set pieces over the constant chores of Animal Crossing. Going back to the first Animal Crossing is so much harder knowing that New Leaf exists now. I love Animal Crossing, but Paper Mario just piques my interests more. Don't hate me guys D:
Madness or no, I think everyone's been to mean to Austin in this episode. How would he even argue with their points when they shut him down? Also, poor heckin Lee. I feel like he barely got a chance to say anything.
@@kyrahere5561 How is that the case at all? He talked for 3/4's of the video, constantly interrupting everyone else, and being way overly defensive. He didn't even allow anyone to say anything about Paper Mario without interrupting one sentence in with a sarcastic remark. This whole video was PBG talking about Animal Crossing, but his childish attitude made everyone less receptive to what he had to say.
Well that's the point of a debate show... You're sorta supposed to make counter-arguments. It seems a lot more one-sided this time because well... it WAS one-sided. PBG was the only one there that was going to vote for Animal Crossing to begin with. It's not the first time this has happened on the show, think of all the times Jirard got shut down during the N64 bracket. It just happens, man.
Some of those examples they brought up were bad. Those are way different type of simulation games. You play more of a God in the Sims, Stardew and Harvest Moon is a farming simulator, those games were bad to compare to Animal Crossing.
I don't know about that. I'd say that Austin argued more aggressively, which was a double edged sword. While it allowed him to steer the conversation to focus much more on Animal Crossing than it otherwise would have, it also kind of entrenched the positions of everyone else on the panel when he pushed against every point so hard. It also didn't help that Austin fundamentally misunderstood some of the valid criticisms they were levying, especially with the whole "you only have a set amount of things to do in a day" argument seemingly flying over his head.
@@gilolaes4725 Interestingly enough, this is probably better for this series in general, so they can discuss TYD in better detail in the next matchup. At least that's what I think.
Yeah Shane even said TTYD is "objectively" better which is stupid. And jareds points were stupid too. AC never ends but somehow PM is more replayable? Lol what? I might prefer PM too but they dismissed AC's points while acting like TTYD isn't 80% PM1
@@exiled5160 While you have a point, a lot of those comments came about because of Austin's...selective hearing when it came to some of the more rational discussion. To throw out the tired cliche, when you go full Trump like Austin did, all of that rational argument gets thrown out the window for hyperbolic comments.
Yeah I don't think it's a personal thing against Austin necessarily He just tends to favor more cult classic type games and everyone else seems to enjoy more mainstream classics. So Austin just tends to be on the losing side more
nak yeah I guess you’re right. Sometimes it just seems like they are trying to make him feel stupid or something. I don’t know, just kinda irks me. It makes me feel bad for Austin.
They teamed up against him because he was shutting down arguments unnecessarily and anything they said against AC went right over his head and he dismissed them. Shane was trying to explain the various hype moments of the game and all Austin said was "yep that exists" when that's all he did for AC. Everyone made arguments and he ignored almost all of them
Coming back to this series years later is something else. This episode is a great example of why “the essence of” argument was actually important because it helped them Re-contextualize what they’re actually debating. It’s not about their favorite games, it’s about what they think is the *best game.* For example, I really love DK64, but it in no way is a contender for best game of any category.
The best way I would describe why I like animal crossing is imagination. There's tons of furniture for you to find and collect and decorate your house if your into that, but I love role-playing. I love making up stories in my head with the villagers based on events that would happen, letters that we would write and gossip mentioned by other villagers. My fiance played too and would partake in my role-playing shenanigans. I also one time tried to create a horror themed town based off that one creepy pasta with the animal crossing village you can visit. It's all about world building when it comes to animal crossing!
@SUPER RAD yeah, they did that, but that was because PBG was not saying anything really, he was just expressing over and over that there was "stuff to do" and that he liked the game... nothing really constructive, nothing about the game mechanics, graphics, art style, controls, etc.
Sorry, Animal Crossing, but Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door is better. Animal Crossing is a great game to play casually, but after a while, it just becomes monotonous. Yes, the internal clock was a huge part of the game that made it unique. The experience is unique to every person as the town is random. However, Paper Mario had more character. Lots of the villagers are cut and pasted in terms of personality. Each character in Paper Mario had unique personalities. The partners, the bosses, and the side characters all had personalities. I loved the battle system with the stage and tricks you could pull off. It made fighting fun. The side quests also were a good part of the game. The Pit of 100 trials was essentially the post game which was fairly challenging. I love both games, but I think Paper Mario is the better game.
Skipping floors is cheating, you're literally there for the challenge you baby man! Lol the pit was great, the bottom 20 were sick with the nasty enemy variety.
@@eliahlatham Oh, dumping thousands of coins at the pianta gambling halls to have like +40 attack and just erasing everything first round. Yeah, I have a save with that, but my first pass through the game I did the pit with my regular non-twink build
This one got spicy.
You were straight savage mate, fuck yeah.
While I dont have a strong opinion either way I see how PBG would think the point of comparing the "best" paper mario game to the "worst" animal crossing game would be moot. Say you take the "best" Bubsy game and put it against the "worst" zelda game. The zelda game would still be better then the bubsy game with means comparing to other games in the franchise would be an odd point to make. That being said, I think the vote was fair even though I love animal crossing and this series just keeps getting better.
I don't think I've ever seen PBG get THIS salty. Hahaha, poor guy.
I'd add another point to Paper Mario. Paper Mario does end, but that only makes it more satisfying than Animal Crossing.
You can also do different runs in Paper Mario, giving it more replayability. You can do a no badge run. You can do a run without increasing health. So on and so forth.
This episode should not have been this much fun to watch lol thanks PBG that was awesome.
It was a suicide mission from the start, peebs.
“[Animal Crossing] It’s a completionist game” *JIRARD DRAGONRIDER KHALIL WOULD LIKE TO KNOW YOUR LOCATION*
Exactly what I thought
Tru tru, I love Jirard, but that man needs to sleep more.
He likely was in the room or in the building
He was probably sleeping and then went like NANI
This entire episode was just Austin vs Shane
Derp Derp Top 10 anime battles
It felt more like Austin yelling at me because I think ttyd is objectively better.
I actually kind of liked that. It is as they have said a subjective show, so it's cool when a game clearly means a lot to someone :)
Rig
Nah. Not just Shane. It was more like Attack on Austin
Jared's reactions were by far the best part of this episode honestly.
PraMai Or the Shane Vs. Austin fight.
@@chillplayer1234 when Forest said that Animal Crossing had superior music
SPOILERS:
I tried.
I was rooting for you Peebs. Animal Crossing music is good to listen to even when you are not playing the game. Not to mention the countless awesome NES games.
It was kinda you vs everyone but good job for keeping up a good argument
why did you do pocket camp so dirty
You probably should have mentioned the hundreds upon hundreds of different items in the game that is made all the more impressive by the fact that the entire game fits into the GameCube's RAM. All those shirts, guitars, clocks, THE WHEAT PATCH (you know you made a whole room filled with wheat patches at least once, don't you lie to me), all those furniture models and everything. You can start the game, remove the disc, and keep playing without it. Everything works fine.
Also might have been good to bring up that talking to villagers more sort of makes them more comfortable with you, and you get attached to your villagers. There is character development created just by making a friend. Especially with the Able sisters.
I was really hoping for at least one more vote for Animal Crossing, and I really hoped the music could have been explained a bit more, but it is what it is. Have a nice day dude, and random people reading the comments.
Hey man, I've never played an Animal Crossing game and your argument convinced me to give the series a try. That's a bit of a win.
Jared has such a smugass face just watching this discussion take place, especially watching Peeb try to find words to make arguments. It's the best
When is someone gonna tell Austin that the term is "moot point" not " mute point. "
"It's a moo point. Like, a cow's opinion. It doesn't matter."
@@thesuperthingymabob8209 "Have I been living with Joey too long or did that just make sense?"
That's all I could think about when Austin was talking lol
As soon as I heard that I came down to the comments looking for this comment. Thanks for not disappointing.
PBG could've mentioned how you do set your own goals in Animal Crossing after starting. You get rewarded by playing everyday even for a little bit and getting closer to that goal. It's an afternoon game where you put it in just to wind down before playing other games.
He also could've made the counter argument that Paper Mario suffers from poor pacing and RPG Syndrome (where it gets slower towards the end and the story/game play feels padded out for time.
Not that this would help him win. This was just fighting a battle already lost.
its like arguing the solo experience of playing an mmorpg versus actually playing a singleplayer rpg
@Voidaken Yeah, it's like Animal Crossing is the opening act to get you into the mood of playing video games before you move onto the main game you wanna play that day.
Thats also the point jared was trying to make. AC is a game of long term progression, so playing all day can only increase that progression until you've finished all of your "dailies", for lack of a better phrase.
But what I think Austin was struggling to say is that animal crossing supersedes being a game, instead its a virtual life. I understand Austin's point of being a lonely kid, I've developed emotional attachment to video games growing up, and AC is a perfectly crafted game that fills that psychological need... whereas paper mario is just another variation of the RPG genre...
That being said, i think paper mario was the better game. It's a more direct and unified user experience, unlike animal crossing which can be a hit or a miss based solely on the players willingness to create a virtual lifestyle.
@StarJ Actually, he said New Leaf was better. At one point, he says that the first AC is the second best.
not to mention RPGs have a really hard time keeping a difficulty curve, most RPGs (and let me know if 1000 year door is any different) like making you feel like you're getting more powerful and so endgame is ridiculously easy
I feel bad for PBG, but it was a losing fight no matter how good his agruement would have been. 1000 Year Door is where the Paper Mario series peaked. Where as Animal Crossing was a humble beginning to a really great series.
Some would disagree. Some people regard the original AC as its series' peak. lol
@@pathogenofdecay Those people must be blind to nostalgia. Technologically speaking, the AC games have only ever gotten better. Also, the Gamecube version had the stupidest method of fossil collecting. Like, you dig up a fossil, mail it to someone, then get it back the next day, to do whatever with, as opposed to the newer games, where you dig up a fossil, get it identified immediately, to do whatever with.
@@kryzethx
Some people like the mundanity, makes it feel more humble, and the music/atmosphere/villagers are the best here imo
Jared is so quiet almost the entire video, and his facial expressions are amazing, I love it!
Both games give the feels.
Both games have incredible music.
Both games have a charming art style.
Both games have people still playing them.
Both games have beloved characters.
*THIS IS HARD*
Boy I sure do love Frog #3 With Personality #1 (Cool) Variant #2
Only problem I see is you calling them both games, really. Animal crossing is less game and more experience, considering it has no fail state, no skill checks, and no victory condition
@@BlueDavrial I'm talking about Tom Nook, Resetti, K.K. Slider, Rover, Copper, Kapp'n, Redd, Tortimer, Blathers, Pete, Joan, Gulliver, and the other *_permanent_* characters. Most of the villagers are... eh. But don't pretend everyone in the game is one of those.
It isn't hard.
There are Animal Crossing games that include more content, more items, more tasks, more holidays, more references.
TTYD is the best game in its series, on its console, and potentially in its entire subgenre.
@@I38VWI But you can't consider future games in the series when debating the best GameCube game. Why should TTYD get points just because the series has gotten worse? And why should New Leaf bring down Animal Crossing? This is just about GameCube games.
I mean, TTYD *_is_* the better game, but that argument doesn't make sense.
14:15 That Harvest Moon burn lost Jared's vote for Animal Crossing.
Pretty sure he was never going to vote for Animal Crossing. TTYD is objectively better and Jared is an RPG guy to begin with.
@@bbreimm Oh your completely right, I just know how much Jared likes the Harvest Moon series as does PBG, but PBG straight up called it a lesser Animal Crossing. And Jared's reaction was just so honest.
TTYD is one of the greatest games of all time. While Animal Crossing is wonderful and charming. Paper mario is amazing. Best game on the gamecube
I've never heard a more true statement at the end
I think the title belongs to Viewtiful Joe
100% agree!
True to the very end. I'd even put TTYD over Resident Evil 4.
Couldn't agree more, I still dream of a Paper Mario that goes back to its roots. Funny dialouge, interesting characters, partners, unique environments and a traditional combat system. Why is it so hard to follow this up and beef it up a bit?
As much as I LOVE Animal Crossing, Paper Mario TTYD has to take it for me. Animal Crossing was a great start to an amazing series, probably my favorite series of all time, but TTYD is arguably my favorite GC game of all time and it’s truly something special.
Animal crossing is way better that Paper Mario TTYD for the simple fact that you could play the greatest hits on the original Nintendo games within the game.
@@DiabloBiscuit Those take forever to get if you play without cheats anyway!
I am surprised Austin didn't bring up the NES games you could play on Animal Crossing.
Probably would have been counter-productive to say one of the highlights of what made this game great was playing games way older than it.
Some Random Dude He did when he talked about his cousins.
Pubugu made an appearance today
There is a chapter in Paper Mario TTYD where a man in a bedsheet and party hat steals your identity via shapeshifting and you have to recover your body and team-mates by figuring out bed-sheet man’s name rumplstiltskin style and fight him on top of a clock tower.
tHaT iS a MoMeNt iN tHe gAmE
Live Champs You lose your name.
yeah that part was amazing, funny how you left out how you still had to run back and forth through the forest at least 4 times even if you already know the name which hurts future and even the current playthrough
Rislear lmao chill out my man
@@livchamps9573 i don't see how you interpreted my comment as me overracting. You literally have to:
-go halfway into the forest to get the key
-head back to get the rolling ability
-go to the creepy steeple to fight doopliss
-go back to get vivian
-forwards again to get the missing letter
-back again to say the name
-finally you go back to the creepy steeple to finish the chapter.
You probably have to go back and forth even more times if its your first time playing and every time you go through that one screen doopliss pops out of the moon to say "wrongamundo" wasting even more time.
Dude, I love TTYD but mentioning the concept of the chapters as if they automatically made the game better just for being there is an incredible disservice to both games.
I love how this episode Jared's just kinda laughing in his little corner😂
If this was New Leaf vs Paper Mario TTYD, I would have a hard time deciding. But Jared's point is very true, the original AC didn't have a lot you could do every day past the intro. I would argue that it would definitely provide more than just 10 minutes a day, it would keep me interested for at least an hour each day, but after that hour is up there would actually be nothing to do unless you time travel
23:17 I Saw that. Hahaha, ow dear. Did not expect that screen to be hooked up to a desktop/laptop/tablet
I was wondering what that was.
The second time PBG says "Mute point" Shane has a look like "I guess that wasn't just a mistake the first time he said it... he actually thinks the saying is 'Mute point'."
Paper Mario TTYD is a game with cool moments. Animal Crossing is a game made up of moments. There are very few "hype as ****" moments, because it isn't a game that builds hype. It never was designed to. It's a game for people exploring and doing things. It's a game for hunting down that last fossil. It's a game for trying to catch that rare fish or bug. It's a game built around the small things in the game. Animal Crossing is a game that paces itself very slowly, because it is a chill game.
It's impossible to say Paper Mario has better side quests. Animal Crossing is built of side quests. In the same way, Paper Mario has a better main story, but Animal Crossing isn't a game that has a main story. Paper Mario limits you in that there is a finite story. Paper Mario limits you in that there isn't much reason to retread old ground other than the occasional and unusual paper mechanic you didn't have before. Animal Crossing limits you in unique activities per day. You can only find so many fossils, the shop's stock once per day, and the events of someone showing up happens once per day.
Paper Mario does the same thing, but in a different way. You can do side quests, retread ground, or progress the story, and that's your limit. Animal Crossing, however, also always gives you access to be creative. You can customize your house in a completely different way. You can redistribute and fully design your town (except other villager's houses and shops) to suit your aesthetic or financial goals of the game.
Paper Mario TTYD is an amazing game. Animal Crossing is an amazing of a game as you make it. I'm not sure if that makes Animal Crossing a better game than Paper Mario for everyone, but it definitely was for me.
"Animal Crossing isn't a game...." I agree with this part of your statement exactly.
If only your argument for "Animal Crossing" were expressed fully in the video. You ended with the one point I would emphasize: "Animal Crossing" will appeal more than "Paper Mario: TTYD" to certain individuals, including many non-gamers, and it definitely gets credit for that. It filled or at least greatly expanded a lacking niche in gaming. "Paper Mario: TTYD" and "Animal Crossing" both provide great gaming experiences, but extremely different experiences. People can enjoy and even love both, but most will prefer one or the other. I personally prefer the experience of "Paper Mario: TTYD." :)
9sharkman Was them
I
Hgffjyjnn
I never cared for the AC games, (ironically I love to play Isabelle in smash and Mario Kart) but I really enjoyed reading about what makes it special for you. You explained it very coherently and succinctly. Thanks for sharing!
Yep. It's a shame they dissed it so much.
@ 16:48 Shane became my hero in this episode (and Jared's reaction got me too), but I still love you PBG. Keep up the great work guys.
In reality, the games are from different genres and offer vastly different experiences that are difficult to directly compare or contest without clear definitions of what makes something better. So, for all the talk and debate, this entire production boils down to a popularity contest with a notably limited demographic of voters and an arbitrary choice of candidates.
Points are made, but the score means nothing.
That said, what happened to PBG is the consequence. He made points, but no one acknowledged them because instead of arguing in the objective, the argument is subjective, he got put on the defensive with an unpopular opinion, got flustered, and we got to watch Jared's thin patience for fools manifest as he endured the situation while Peebs got increasingly put off. Proud of Shane for handling things as well as he did, could have gone worse otherwise. Feel bad for Peebs.
Also, for the GameCube era? As an RPG PMtTYD is fun, but I think there are better ones. However, as a casual simulation game Animal Crossing was a unique and enjoyable experience that arguably bettered players by encouraging a degree of mindfulness, community, and routine. Maybe it wasn't as gratifying or exciting as a traditional game, but that wasn't the point. But again, none of this makes one 'better' than the other.
I think what makes Animal Crossing stand out the most to me as my most special game I've ever played was how for the first time MY ENTIRE FAMILY played it together. I was in grade school and my Mom, Sister, and 2 Cousins all played it. It was an experience we all shared and for the first time would compete over who got GameCube time every day. We would work together and complete objectives in our town like filling the museum or planting new fruit trees. We would hunt for missing pieces of furniture from another players collection and exchange it for bells or items we needed. We would each fill our houses to the brim with fish tanks on the days that Nook was remodeling. We would all mourn the loss of a favorite villager who moved. And lastly, we would fight over who got to listen to K.K. each week. It was the perfect family game and I'll never forget how great it was to experience it together. That is the reason I will always look fondly on it and buy the latest iteration when my daughter is old enough to share that same family gaming experience.
Really not seeing Jared's point about AC only being fun for the first few hours. I had more enjoyment and fulfillment the longer I played it. At first you have very limited means of accomplishing goals, but the longer you play, the more you acquire. He says it limits you, but there is enough content for you to "binge" on any day, whether you want to play with that content is up to you. I agree with the outcome that TTYD is most definitely the better game, but really disagree with the points made by both sides in this one.
I totally agree with you.
Who doesn’t like being nice to their villagers everyday? It’s an adorable and relaxing game, but I guess if you’re playing the game for the different objectives the game gives you instead of giving yourself objectives based on in-game interactions, you might not like it very much.
Idk, I always find myself manually advancing days because I end up running out of things to do for that day
I'm not sure when these videos came back, but thank you so much for bringing these back. Time to binge watch PBG ticking off Jared
Jared is having a goooooood timeeeeee
This is my favorite episode of Madness so far. The passion was great; you guys should get pissed more often lol
I think they missed the point of subtle gameplay. I can go and play animal crossing and literally just walk around my town, or sit on a bench, or do any other small/simple task and enjoy it so much. Animal crossing is a feeling. Animal crossing is waking up on Saturday morning as a kid to watch cartoons. I'm sure the people who love this game will agree, animal crossing is just pure innocent childlike wonder.
Before anyone attacks me, I'm not saying it's a better game than paper Mario because animal crossing isn't a game to me. It's just an experience.
I should be happy that Paper Mario TTYD won but the arguments for it are left to be desired.
For one, I wish Shane could of elaborated about the battle system. How does Paper Mario TTYD's battle system set apart than any RPG battle system? He and the others talked how fun it was to have an audience participate and throw stuff at you (whether it's helpful or harmful) but they didn't discuss about the player appealing to the crowd to get SP (Star Points) or the gambling aspect of a battle; A high risk or reward situation that can be a game changer.
They could of also rebuttaled PBG's argument about the game not being replayable. There's the side quests if you avoid it or forget about it that give you rewards, there is the casino which you can play minigames (you need to do certain side quests first in order to unlock them tho), and there is the infamous Hundred Pit Trial which is an endurance test that challenge your abilities, and getting missable collectables (Although this last point is a waste of time because the game doesn't reward you if you collect every badge in the game, complete every tattle log or complete recipes).
Highlighting certain parts of the game does NOT explain why it makes a game good. Okay, I know Shane is passionate about the game (it's very clear by the way he talks about it) but he needs to explain why Paper Mario TTYD is beloved by so many people (myself included) and a good GameCube game.
Same goes for Animal Crossing. I understand PBG points but he needs to explain himself more (if they let him of course lmao).
I just wished they didn't compare Animal Crossing on the GameCube to it's predecessors. Of course the game isn't as good as the others, but it's still a good GameCube game. It's impressive how much you can do in Animal Crossing (especially when a holiday rolls around/events).
This matchup did make me anxious ahaha! Both games really mean a lot to me 💜
How is this one if the most intense debates?
That wasn't a debate, that was watching a man die for a sim game
This should be easy haha
I was actually playing animal crossing last year when I broke my wrist. My fingers got strong quickly, but my thumb was very stiff and sore because I had a plate and 5 screws put in. It was the perfect game for rehabbing my thumb, you walk around a lot but don't do a lot of sudden movements, and it encourages you to play for small bits a day every day. When I would tell people I was playing animal crossing the way I would describe it is that it's a game that you don't play for a long time, but you play consistently. All that being said, I played well after my hand recovered, caught all the bugs and fish (had to time travel for a couple,) payed off my house, and saved almost 10 million bells before I got bored of turnip trading and pulling weeds. The first game is quite limited, but I got a solid 4 months of enjoyment out of it, which is more than I could say for paper mario... but paper mario is still a better game, and I've never played it lol.
I agree that TTYD is better, but I wish that when they were talking about Animal Crossing’s repetitive gameplay, someone brought up how much backtracking TTYD has. It hurts the gameplay a bit.
"backtracking" no not really. It's an RPG designed to feel like it has a world that matters. The backtracking, if anything, makes the world feel lived in and important, instead of a setpiece you just ignore after completing it.
I'd say the biggest offender is obviously chapter 7. It's played for laughs to poke fun at the genre, but I think it takes the joke a bit too far. It's everyone's least favorite part of the game, but I don't think it hurts the game enough to make it lose this matchup.
I agree even though I like TTYD. I actually don't mind the backtracking in Chapter 4 or 7 despite those being infamous. My main backtracking problem is Chapter 5 which not a lot of people point out.
However the game is so well put together that it's worth looking past that.
Backtracking hurting the game a little bit versus Animal Crossing being stale within hours is probably not an argument that AC was going to win
OH BOY! I sure liked pressing A one hundred times to listen to a plant say "I love you" to someone else and you can't forget that super exciting and amazing part where you searched for a moustached bomb throughout every area of the game, that was sure a highlight. But my absolute favorite part has to be running back and forth looking for the letter "p".
I feel bad for PBG on this one. I choose Paper mario in this matchup, but animal crossing is definitely something that is fun to play in an entirely different way than a lot of the other games in this bracket. It's laidback, it's relaxing, it's cute, it's exciting in some places, and it goes at its own pace. I feel like it's less that the game "forces" you to play at certain times or for a certain amount of time, and more just lets the events happen or gives you things to do when it wants to. I do wish it had more to do, but for what the game does offer, it's pretty fun to me.
Sorry I didn't root for your game in this one PBG, but I'm definitely with you on the merits of Animal Crossing. It's its own unique flavor of fun.
I'm the same, and I hope in my comment about why I thought Paper Mario should win (before I watched the whole thing), I conveyed that. I like both, but I think Paper Mario is better
That was probably the most madness we've seen in Madness yet!
Poor PBG, but uh yeah PM: Thousand Year Door is so unbelievably great.
There are goals to have such as completing the bug/fish encyclopedias,seeing a statue made for you, achieving the "perfect town" status, maxing out your home size, its a game where you can simply sit down and do as much as you can, scheduling a day to truly get as much as you need done. Its a slow build game where you can step back and see your maxed out house, the full museum, the completed catalog and feel like you accomplished something.
You want to go back for one more day to see it all add up, to see your town build up as well as the relationships with your fellow villagers. There are also various smaller events aside from the holidays, you could turn the system on, expecting a normal day only to realize there's buried treasure hidden somewhere in your town, or you talk to Tortimer and be bestowed with lighthouse duty, or you meet Wisp.
I also feel like the e card functionality was also glossed over, as it was one of the few games that utilized it. The designs for the NPCs were quirky and cute, and created faces that everyone recognizes regardless of whether or not they have played the games.
I feel that it is unfair that a point used against Animal Crossing is that it's not as "good" in comparison to the others, which can also be said for Paper Mario TTYD. Animal Crossing as a franchise is still running, and has been improving bit by bit while still keeping the charm of the original, and still being about a kid who moves in to a new world.
While both games are good I feel like the arguments for Animal Crossing were weak and it deserved more discussion, ah well, hope it does well in the loser's bracket!!
Jared through this whole episode is amazing!
@Chic 'N' Stu Providing background comedy while allowing the two main players in a debate to take center stage is absolutely contributing substance. Stepping in more would have only distracted and taken away from the main debate, so Jared literally was amazing in this episode by doing a fantastic job adding something highly enjoyable without taking the spotlight away from Shane and Austin.
This was good stuff. You guys really knew what you were talking about.
TTYD definitely deserved it, but I think Austin missed the chance to say that AC is a much more accessible game thus making it a game anyone can play/like where as TTYD is an RPG and as proven in previous Madness brackets (FF9vsParapa) that genra is super divisive.
but PM gives more of a childish approach so it's easier in the accesible part (comparing it to FF9)
I love the passion that is in this episode. This show is great but it would be amazing if every episode had this true passion. You guys did great and kept your cool while still strongly presenting your case. 10/10 guys!!!
Thousand year door should win the whole thing imo
That's fair. I think ttyd, wind waker, and smash melee all have a claim to that title. (i'd also argue that fire emblem path of radiance is up there and should have been on the bracket)
Wind Waker is a much better game.
@@spacelizbian3237 I think Chibi Robo should have been on the bracket
Would have said that if Resident Evil 4 wasn't in the bracket. To be fair I love paper mario, probably one of my most favourite rpgs of all time, but RE4 is easily a console seller, shame is it came to every console because it was so good.
It's either wind waker or thousand year door.
I truly think this was the best episode of Madness so far. People actually debated a topic they feel strongly about and while it was everyone ganging up on Austin and Animal Crossing, this matchup was doomed from the start. I'm absolutely loving this series and I really like where it's going.
Where is fire emblem path of radiance
I Like Ike I’d have loved to see it in the bracket but I guess it’s not relevant enough to most Nintendo fans unfortunately
Its an 100$ game thats why
@@dannydeleon5996 good thing I've still got my copy ^-^
Fire what? Idk probably not important enough to be on the bracket
I Like Ike they pick the good games to debate
What was in Jared's mug?
😂 😂 😂
I agree with Shane. Paper Mario TTYD has my absolute favorite battle system. I loved the audience, and memorizing the style inputs for all of the moves.
Best episode ever. Seeing Shane get so passionate was just everything. I love him!
Someone needs to tell Austin that it's "moot" point, not "mute" point.
15:57 and the reaction it brings sums up this entire episode perfectly hahaha 👌
O U C H I almost dont wanna watch this one
I only got halfway through. Another bad matchup.
For like the first half of the discussion I like to think Jared is just staring at Peebs, thinking to himself, "He's fighting a losing battle..." XD
The argument about PMTYD being the better one in its franchise and AC not the best kinda hinders the games IMHO. After the Thousand Year Door the Paper Mario Series went downhill whereas Animal Crossing went up.
That doesn’t hinder the game. It shows the excellence of Paper Mario that it’s so great and it couldn’t be topped plus the following games are worse than the original paper Mario too so that doesn’t matter for ttyd and show how good of a game that is because it’s the only game that really is better than the original. Animal crossing was so barebones because it was originally an n64 game so it was on a weaker console and not optimized for the GameCube. But if it’s so easily improved upon by future games that shows how weak the original game is. The argument works much more towards Paper Mario
What?
This is the episode I was waiting for since S1E1
My opinion is that the original Animal Crossing would conceptually have done better as a Gameboy Advance game. AC is filled with daily, arbitrary tasks that you can do in 10 minutes or so. I equate it to how with more mobile games, like Pokémon GO, in that some players will literally log on just to get their daily catch bonuses and what not. I think if the original AC was on the Gameboy, it would make doing those daily tasks much more convenient and you would likely still have people playing their original file to this day. I understand that it was probably impossible to cram a game like AC on the Gameboy, but that’s why I think Wild World and New Leaf are the best of the best with life sim games. I think, if done well, AC on the Switch will actually be a contender for best Switch game.
Jirard is probably somewhere nearby relishing in the salt while simultaneously laughing his ass off and playing with his beard.
I'm genuinely worried Austins never gonna show up again.
@SUPER RAD In this episode he got flustered and didn't make his points clear enough. I would have shot his opinions down too if I was rooting for paper mario. He was an easy target
@SUPER RAD I disagree, Austin himself was being rude and dismissal. At least Shane brought up good points.
hahahahahaha Jared's faces throughout this episode, and the crack he made at the previous season, made this my favourite episode of madness so far
11:25 let Austin play the Christmas event 3 different times on all this animal crossing copies
this single handedly became one of my favorite youtube videos lol
I feel like the argument of “there’s only so much you can do in Animal Crossing” needed to be made better. It’s a video game, there isn’t unlimited things to do. But honestly it seems like, if you can keep playing animal crossing for 10 minutes a day forever, then it beats Paper Mario. Paper Mario is an rpg with a story. The story ends. But to be fair that point was made during the... high energy part of the video so maybe it could have been made better.
Disclaimer: I’ve never played either game or series, I’m not trying to say which should have won.
The problem with the argument that you can play Animal Crossing forever is yeah, you can, but would you really want to? It's not like Minecraft were there is essentially and infinite possibilities of what you can do each time. By a certain point in animal crossing, you will have done everything and there is no incentive to keep going. If your going by that argument, then the quality of a game is judged by it's length and not the quality. Paper Mario is a quality game throughout it's run time while animal crossing is not. There isn't enough content to justify playing endlessly.
@@brianh7302 Oh yeah if it's the only criteria it's not really a good argument at all. Quality over quantity for sure. I was just confused by the point they were trying to make. Specifically Jared around 17:21. It sounds like he's saying, after you've completed your main objective, you can only play for 10 minutes per day. Which if you compare that to Paper Mario, after you beat the story, there's nothing left to do. Games over. So, unless you can complete the main part of Animal Crossing in 10 minutes, the point kind of falls apart.
@@HarryBOBX Ohhh okay, I get what you mean now.
TTYD is one of the most replayable RPGs I can think of, to be honest. Just look at all of the challenges and character builds you can use to go through the game with. There are plenty of post game/collection things that you can do after you beat the story, also.
I'm just looking at Jared thoughout this and I just keep laughing
I spoiled this one by looking at the like/dislike ratio.
I personally believe that TTYD is one of the greatest games ever made. It's a blast to play. The battle system is awesome, the characters are awesome, the writing is awesome, the music is awesome, the setpieces are awesome, the aesthetic is awesome, etc. I've also replayed it quite a bit, and it's always just as fun the next time as it was the last. The only game in the bracket that I think could give it some competition is Wind Waker, and I really hope that that's the final matchup, but even then it's barely a contest for me.
Just like everyone said, I do like Animal Crossing. It's a charming, fun game. But I definitely agree with Jared in that it's only fun for small stretches of time. For some people, that's great! When I was a kid, I loved coming back to my town every day to see what changed and what I can do that day. But nowadays that style of game doesn't draw me in much. I bought New Leaf last year and after the initial few hours my motivation to play plummeted.
ANIMAL CROSSING!!
After watching as much as I have, I realize it's two of the best games on the system... Still love crossing me some animals. Wish paper mario stayed as good as it was then...
I do appreciate that at the end of these episodes, despite how hard and heated the debate gets, when things calm down they all just say that they like and/or appreciate both games. It makes me happy to hear the positivity that these experiences bring even though the point of the show is to make one game rank above the rest.
The Thousand-Year Door is a story about stories.
Prologue: You become a hero...again
Chapter 1: You become a Knight
Chapter 2: You become a guardian angel
Chapter 3: You become a wrestler
Chapter 4: You become an outcast/nobody (edited)
Chapter 5: You become a sailor/treasure tracker (edited)
Chapter 6: You become a detective
Chapter 7: You become an astronaut
Chapter 8: You become the savior of all people and the world.
Epilogue: (Finish anything you didn’t previously)
Animal Crossing is a simulation about life...
Whole game: You become a villager and do the same stuff over and over again
For Chapter 4, I wouldn't really say ghost hunter. Sure there is a mansion with boos, but the idea of the chapter is more that you get your identity stolen
I'd say more like "You become a nobody" or "You become an outcast"
Chapter 5 had the pirate theme, but Mario never really felt like a pirate himself. Although I don't really know what else to say. I guess he would be a treasure hunter?
@@DaNintendude Perhaps you might say a Treasure Tracker?
Da Nintendude I agree with your interpretation of chapters 4 and 5.
Jared's face this entire episode had me rolling.
The arguments against Animal Crossing were terrible. I agree that Paper Mario TTYD is the better game but Animal Crossing is a unique and valuable experience. I don’t think Animal Crossing got a fair shake in this discussion at all. Kinda disappointed in how they shamed Animal Crossing pretty heavily.
I agree. Austin points were great.
They didn't shame it at all? They pointed out the truth that it runs out of content quick. That's the truth.
Animal crossing is hardly a game. No fail state, no skill checks, no victory conditions. It's a fantastic experience, definitely, I've sunk minimum 3 digits in hours into the original, but that doesn't change my opinion
I agree with you completely
@@thecontroversialgamer7079 it doesn't run out of content quickly
This was a great episode haha
Peebs I think the point they’re trying to make is that in an average play session you run out of ways to actually make progress in Animal Crossing after a certain amount of time. You can only dig up so many fossils and catch so many fish before you get to the point where it’s mundane (regardless of how relaxing or chill it may be). The act of making actual progress becomes more and more miniscule with each play session as you accomplish all of your goals. Also something no one said (but Jeff kimd of alluded to) is that Animal Crossing manufactures replayability in a manipulative way. Regardless of whether or not you want to play Animal Crossing every day, you basically HAVE to otherwise your favorite villager may move away or your town gets overrun with weeds. So you get stuck in the awkward limbo of playing to avoid your town going to crap but running out of things to do, but you don’t want to restart because then all of your hard earned progress is gone
I agree that Paper Mario is the better game. Jared had many good points as to why the amount of time you play Animal Crossing over the course of the game, considering the idea that you basically run out of things to do. I'd rather the linearity of a game like Paper Mario that provides me with good writing, characters, and different set pieces over the constant chores of Animal Crossing. Going back to the first Animal Crossing is so much harder knowing that New Leaf exists now. I love Animal Crossing, but Paper Mario just piques my interests more. Don't hate me guys D:
The first 15 minutes I was just waiting for someone to mention music, and I was NOT disappointed with the reaction
Madness or no, I think everyone's been to mean to Austin in this episode. How would he even argue with their points when they shut him down?
Also, poor heckin Lee. I feel like he barely got a chance to say anything.
Editing makes people sound harsh.
I really feel like Austin wasn’t given a fair chance on this one
@@kyrahere5561 How is that the case at all? He talked for 3/4's of the video, constantly interrupting everyone else, and being way overly defensive. He didn't even allow anyone to say anything about Paper Mario without interrupting one sentence in with a sarcastic remark. This whole video was PBG talking about Animal Crossing, but his childish attitude made everyone less receptive to what he had to say.
They brought up counter-points to PBG's points. It's an argument about which game is better, and they feel very strongly about their opinions.
Well that's the point of a debate show... You're sorta supposed to make counter-arguments. It seems a lot more one-sided this time because well... it WAS one-sided. PBG was the only one there that was going to vote for Animal Crossing to begin with. It's not the first time this has happened on the show, think of all the times Jirard got shut down during the N64 bracket. It just happens, man.
I love this battle between Shane and PBG, and Jared is just sitting back and enjoying the ride.
Paper Mario the Thousand Year Door is probably my favorite game of all time! So happy you did this!
This is the best episode. I laughed so hard during this one.
14:04 Dude, he got slammed.
Some of those examples they brought up were bad. Those are way different type of simulation games. You play more of a God in the Sims, Stardew and Harvest Moon is a farming simulator, those games were bad to compare to Animal Crossing.
Gabster Hamster Oh, I know, I just meant like their response time.
'M'ake Something Oh yeah lol, it was just one after another. Sort of felt bad for Peebs in this video
Didn’t expect my most anticipated first round matchup to get this heated...
Wow
Can we get Mc jones next season
This was so fun. What a great group of guys.
I prefer Paper Mario, but Austin argued far better imo and they dismissed various points.
I don't know about that. I'd say that Austin argued more aggressively, which was a double edged sword. While it allowed him to steer the conversation to focus much more on Animal Crossing than it otherwise would have, it also kind of entrenched the positions of everyone else on the panel when he pushed against every point so hard. It also didn't help that Austin fundamentally misunderstood some of the valid criticisms they were levying, especially with the whole "you only have a set amount of things to do in a day" argument seemingly flying over his head.
@@gilolaes4725 Interestingly enough, this is probably better for this series in general, so they can discuss TYD in better detail in the next matchup. At least that's what I think.
Yeah Shane even said TTYD is "objectively" better which is stupid. And jareds points were stupid too. AC never ends but somehow PM is more replayable? Lol what?
I might prefer PM too but they dismissed AC's points while acting like TTYD isn't 80% PM1
@@exiled5160 exactly!
@@exiled5160 While you have a point, a lot of those comments came about because of Austin's...selective hearing when it came to some of the more rational discussion. To throw out the tired cliche, when you go full Trump like Austin did, all of that rational argument gets thrown out the window for hyperbolic comments.
Jared's reaction shots had me rolling this episode. He's so happy watching Austin and Shane duke it out, and I love it.
Man there is a ton of teaming up against PBG in madness. It’s a bit ridiculous how much they do that
Yeah I don't think it's a personal thing against Austin necessarily
He just tends to favor more cult classic type games and everyone else seems to enjoy more mainstream classics. So Austin just tends to be on the losing side more
nak yeah I guess you’re right. Sometimes it just seems like they are trying to make him feel stupid or something. I don’t know, just kinda irks me. It makes me feel bad for Austin.
@@bjornbjornson4 yeah I agree
They all need to kinda relax about this stuff
They teamed up against him because he was shutting down arguments unnecessarily and anything they said against AC went right over his head and he dismissed them. Shane was trying to explain the various hype moments of the game and all Austin said was "yep that exists" when that's all he did for AC. Everyone made arguments and he ignored almost all of them
@@hammerstix5791 eh it goes both ways really. They ignored his arguments as much as he ignored theirs, he was just more vocal about it
Coming back to this series years later is something else.
This episode is a great example of why “the essence of” argument was actually important because it helped them Re-contextualize what they’re actually debating. It’s not about their favorite games, it’s about what they think is the *best game.* For example, I really love DK64, but it in no way is a contender for best game of any category.
Animal Crossing Fans join together. Hold strong brethren!!!
Wish the music that started during the big heat up was like death metal hahahah
This got aggressive
I miss these
I feel like standing on Peeb's side and yelling reasons AC is better then Paper Mario.
You'd be hard pressed to find any that weren't mentioned... and there weren't many to begin with.
And you’d run out of things to yell after like five minutes unless you repeated points
The best way I would describe why I like animal crossing is imagination. There's tons of furniture for you to find and collect and decorate your house if your into that, but I love role-playing. I love making up stories in my head with the villagers based on events that would happen, letters that we would write and gossip mentioned by other villagers. My fiance played too and would partake in my role-playing shenanigans.
I also one time tried to create a horror themed town based off that one creepy pasta with the animal crossing village you can visit. It's all about world building when it comes to animal crossing!
holy crap... PBG was really desperate here, it was sad to watch...
@SUPER RAD yeah, they did that, but that was because PBG was not saying anything really, he was just expressing over and over that there was "stuff to do" and that he liked the game... nothing really constructive, nothing about the game mechanics, graphics, art style, controls, etc.
This is my new favorite episode, lol, oh my god this was hilarious, way to fight the fight PBG... But, not even close.
My vote goes to Paper Mario.
I'd much rather play a linear game that ends with a bang than an open world game that I stop playing out of boredom
This might be my favorite episode of Madness to date, I was laughing so hard the entire time
I'm so sorry Austin
Sorry, Animal Crossing, but Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door is better. Animal Crossing is a great game to play casually, but after a while, it just becomes monotonous. Yes, the internal clock was a huge part of the game that made it unique. The experience is unique to every person as the town is random. However, Paper Mario had more character. Lots of the villagers are cut and pasted in terms of personality. Each character in Paper Mario had unique personalities. The partners, the bosses, and the side characters all had personalities. I loved the battle system with the stage and tricks you could pull off. It made fighting fun. The side quests also were a good part of the game. The Pit of 100 trials was essentially the post game which was fairly challenging. I love both games, but I think Paper Mario is the better game.
That's an opinion there, bud. We've all got one, and no one cares about yours.
@@tyler2913 I care about it. It's well structured and has good thoughts. You said FA though.
@@anotherzombi well aren't you special. Judging from your username, you're certainly "special" in one way or another.
Pass the salt Tyler
Wooooo! TTYD! Shane is my new favorite person.
I bet no one has beaten the pit of 100 trials.
Paper mario, thousand year door is my choice
Now beating it legitimate, or the cheap way, now that's a different story
Skipping floors is cheating, you're literally there for the challenge you baby man! Lol the pit was great, the bottom 20 were sick with the nasty enemy variety.
skipping floors is not the cheap way valanway meant....
the cheap way is to have 5 hp 99bp equip all evasion defense and attack at low health badges
@@eliahlatham Oh, dumping thousands of coins at the pianta gambling halls to have like +40 attack and just erasing everything first round. Yeah, I have a save with that, but my first pass through the game I did the pit with my regular non-twink build
@@Valanway 98 is my highest
"I picked a thing and talked to someone, thus exhausting all possible actions in this game! So unlimited!" I really don't get it.