DON'T “SHALLOW” THE SHAFT
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- Опубликовано: 1 авг 2023
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Brian has a way of taking things which are really complicated and making them sound even more complicated.
Or you could just say it’s a bunch of horseshit
Bingo !!! I’m more confused now then when I started !!!!
By the way Brian’s always been full of shit just a car salesman- There’s a reason they say he can sell sand to an Arab or ice to an Eskimo you don’t want to be known for that shit
He is saying a lot of things, but not really saying anything.
Whew, I thought it was me. He is terrible at communicating.
I'm admittedly not sure what kind of golfer or instructor he is but he is literally a master at talking without saying anything.
then you weren't paying attention, what he is saying is pretty simple. People are twisting their hands too much and forcefully causing a shallowing move which should be happening just with rotation, people are using hteir arms and hands too much.
@@jordan3305 There is more than one way to rotate and some people must drop hands deliberately. It is an extremely powerful move.
Love this series with Brian. Can really feel his passion for helping people improve. Gonna have to rewatch it a few times because I find it hard to follow even with subs on. Agree with what's Brian is saying, love the aeroplane club visual and the colours.
I'm 92mph with 7 iron, I "get" shaft lean because I slide forward which is "bad" and tbh the 1st thing and only thing I said to a coach 1st lesson recently was, i want shaft lean with my hands over my left leg instead of over my zipper. 13 hcp. Lose shots driving OB and lost balls, with a ton of 3 putts.
This belly-flop the plane feel has pulled me out of my rotation rabbit hole and dramatically improved my ball striking in a single range session. More of Brian please!
I understand Brian very well he explains his concept very simply, especially with the plane glued to the club makes it easier . . . Thanks Signor Manzella.
Great stuff about the left hand grip from Brian.
The malaska move, tipping it out , chopping wood, 👍
This is 100% the Malaska move
@wasatchgolfacademy1046 yes indeed. Manzella, Malaska and Butch Harmon and the Tour Pros swings are very similar.
Yesss. The only problem is that he doesn't want to reveal us the magic step by step😂. He just starts talking and talking and just talks demonstrates quickly on most important parts. Hahahaha
Great explanation Brian!!!
This is the Malaska move!!!
Yes and very similar to Butch Harmon/Tiger year 2000 and basically all the tour pros as well.
The grip section is gold!
I like the visual of the fingers at right angles to the grip. It's basically just putting the club in your fingers rather than the palm which took me years to figure out. I think though that there is a difference between shaft lean and the relationship of the left forearm to the club at impact. You can have a straight line relationship and no shaft lean. It all depends where your front shoulder is in relationship to the ball. for sure the club head way past the line of the left forearm is not ideal, but how you achieve that is the question. For me it's mostly just rotating later. Not some special application of force
He's always been the master of talking forever and not saying anything
That's because he doesn't want to reveal the magic. Whenever it gets too close, he starts talking and talking, "misleading" who's watching.
Great video!
Good stuff. I like the idea of taking the grip when the club is left of the body. It looks like he rests the club head left of his left foot then pulls his left arm back behind him a little before taking his left hand grip. Did Brian say that it is just the tips of the fingers of the left hand (the farthest part of the fingers after the last knuckle) that run perpendicular to the grip? It seems hard to get the full length of the fingers perpendicular to the grip.
Brian is one of the best guests you've had on the show.
He sure is - just hope he doesn't get hungry some day and eat himself!
Love all of the content and have loved all the guests throughout the years, tons of great information from some of the worlds best. But, to me the underlying message of it all is that you've really got to find a coach who's style and method resonates with you and stick with it to see what path they take you down. Everyone is obviously trying to help you improve but you inevitably get continuous amounts of conflicting information. These sessions with Brian are a great example of that (where he's basically talking about the tumble/malaska type move), which is pretty contrary to what Milo is talking about. Ultimately either coach is trying to get you into a place of playing better golf but if you tried to apply both teachings at once you'd clearly just get stuck between two opposing methods. I think this is also hard because ALL of these coaches provide sound reasoning and are very convincing in the way they describe things. It's not really that any of them are wrong, it's just that you kinda have to buy-in on one and stick with it. IMO
"it's not really that any of them are wrong..." actually yes, many are indeed wrong BUT sometimes wrong information can still make you hit it ok and that's the inherent problem with golf instruction. Not everyone, even when proven to be incorrect, is going to change their decades old ways of teaching. Also to be clear, when i am talking about "incorrect" i literally mean saying or instructing one thing when actual measurements are showing that every golfer is not doing it. Hell even then, if you are lucky enough to own and teach with Gears 3D, you still have to know how to interpret it and someone recently got taught a lesson on that too ;)
Although difficult to follow Brian's dialog, I want more of Brian!
Definitely! You can tell he knows so much that he needs an hour to clearly explain what he’s trying to cover in 20 minutes. So it just comes out kinda scattered.
@@nathanfurumasu For those of you outside of the New Orleans area, that YAT accent doesn't help...if you grew up with it, it's natural.
This segment regarding the grip may have fixed some issues for me. I tested it with my SW this afternoon and impact changed for the better.@@nathanfurumasu
@@nathanfurumasu i’m sorry brother but clearly you have to no idea what you are looking at- this is Kamala Harris word salad double speak nonsense like I’ve never seen- he mesmerizes with utter nonsense- happy to help if you’d like to simplify
Right on the money with the grip section......really good content as always
Thanks 👍
great stuff
I like this concept
Yes, you don’t intentionally shallow the shaft, even milo says it, but he says you sometimes have to get the student to do intentionally to get that feeling, the shaft to shallow period
I think this could be confusing for people that aren't familiar with the alpha, beta, gamma axis system used for forces and torques by the Jacobs 3D analysis system (and other biomechanics investigators as well). Regarding the Sergio example, what I got out of that discussion was they used the Jacobs 3D system to quantify the forces and torques applied by Sergio during the swing and found that even though the shaft shallows, their analysis showed he was actually applying a torque in the opposite direction of the shallwoing starting right at the top of the backswing which is counterintuitive if you just looked at video. He was suggesting the "land the belly of the airplane" at the last club parallel as a much better swing thought compared to trying to shallow the club. Please correct me if this isn't what was intended.
Secondly, I didn't quite get the suggested grip. I know in my lesson with Brian, which was a long time ago, the left hand grip was much weaker than what I was using and had the back of the left and match the clubface basically. Not sure if this is covered better in the subsequent videos.
He's just saying grip it in the fingers... same thing every other coach has been saying for the past 10 years.
@@kd6507 No….Manzella is saying take your left hand grip at a 90 degree angle to the shaft. Which I do not agree with at all. The right hand is applied at a 90 degree angle to the shaft.
He’s saying in the fingers like when Brendan says like a suit case
It feels terrible when my fingers are at a dead 90. The lower end of the grip is more towards the base of the fingers, the thumb goes long, big gap between thumb and index finger. Horrible. It limits wrist mobility and my left wrist is flatter at the top, I’m hitting it noticeably straighter with driver, but lost 20 yards.
Please do an episode on this magic grip. I didn’t get it
What he’s saying is consistent with AMG measurements. All pro players(right handed swing) they measure immediately lower and straighten right arm in transition. This is what shallowing actually is. It’s never rotating and laying the club down. It only appears that way in 2D. Similar to monte’s no turn cast also.
I have to agree with Brian about the fallacy of shallowing the shaft, when did swinging on plane become wrong and part of the problem?
I agree that's it's not done voluntarily but I think some swings (ex: Koepka, DJ, Hovland, etc) have a particular backswing that automates this... I know because I've been better since following similar teachings.. I used to over-rotate the lead arm in backswing, causing an excessively flat backswing followed by a steeping of the shaft in transition.. But now I "stand up" the shaft in backswing using no lead arm rotation (feels like counter rotation for me) which forces the club to lay down in transition as it has nowhere else to go... Like it's using the human anatomy's end-range to make it happen. Don't care what data says, I went from a slicer to an over-draw.. Now I need to get back to neutral and adapt my grip accordingly. Having much more fun now.
@@martynzl I do care and have a Mevo+ w/ Pro Package for that very reason but being a pretty radical swing change it's still a work in progress so It will take time before I ingrain it so not as worried. I sometime revert to my old swing and then come down a little too OTT with a closed face..
Interesting how Malaska said the same thing about Sergio and tipping the club. . .years ago.
I see that Manzella Malaska Harmon and pretty much all the tour pros swings are similar.
Brandon how will you apply this to your game? I feel like your time with milo is in many ways the opposite of this, how do you manage this for your game?
He’s completely mindfucked… Intuitively he knows it and that’s what happens when you don’t trust yourself and you look outside yourself when you already have a shit ton of talent and skill…which he does have…. This channel is an example of what the “wilderness” is. Always learning never coming to the knowledge of the truth. This could continue exactly as it is until he decides that he’s ready to rip the hair out of his head and simplify it. And that’s when he finds the truth.
I am a student of the game and I have no idea what the overall message is here. Having said that I always appreciate Brandon putting out content on his wonderful channel.
ninety to the grip.... nice!
Love this video, shallowing is not done intentionally, you lower your right elbow and straighten your right arm slightly before turning your chest. Rotation occurs after you get that right elbow down, which gives the illusion of shallowing the club.
Great information from Brian.
Much like Mike Malaska.
That's correct. And Harmon's/Tiger 2000 and basically all Tour Pros hit like that.
I would love a more detailed demonstration of that left hand grip. Anyone have a link? I searched YT and his instagram account...no luck
In the next video we will put out here on BBG about the Slice, Manz shows a detailed grip explaination
@@BEBETTERGOLF Oh that is awesome! Thanks so much!!!
Wow.. I got lost with the toy airplane... pretty confusing explanations.. never felt like he finished a sentence without trying to go to another thought...
Just watch the other Manzella Lag video. At min 8:40 to 8:58 and 9:06 to 9:09 . That's what it matters. Hope this helps you.
Conclusion is that you do not have to shallow the club. By just doing hands down and club head out (Malaska's and all Tour Pro style) you automatically shallow your hands and that's what it matters.
IMO this is the Malaska stuff just explained differently. It makes his (Malaska) marching band or steering wheel metaphor make more sense to me now.
Exactly. Brian, Malaska, Tiger Woods/Butch Harmon, Niklaus. They are pretty much the same.
@jameskaiser7111 that's how coaching works... if they were the best player they'd be playing not teaching, dip shit.
This is similar to what Mike Austen/Dunlevy have as a swing philosophy, including the airplane.
Finally someone who knows what they are talking about!!!!!!
Good stuff
Sergio , is consciously relaxing his
Traps and lats in transition.
He is essentially; doing nothing with his arms, apart from letting them dead fall, with the clubs haft horizontal tp P5.
This will automatically, lead to dead arms, with no attempt to pull the club into the slot, which would mechanicaly decouple the arms, which would then move " out of phase " with the rotating mass .
Hard to follow this guy sometimes
I got almost nothing out of what he said.
Brian needs to watch Mr. Peter Cowan give a lesson to a student. His communication skills are world-class. Hence the reason he is the best coach in the world. Mr. Manzella's communication skills are from a different planet. It's like he's talking in a different language. For someone who has been in the coaching business for years, you would think he would have evolved into a better communicator?
Realny true, Peter Cowan makes everything simply, and logical…
Hey George! It wasn't a lesson, it was an interview. I'll live teach against anyone, anytime, anywhere.
I know it wasn't a lesson. No offense. I still stand by what I said regarding your communication skills. I wish you all the best in life.@@brianmanzellagolf
@@georgewalker03I stand by my statement as well. I try on PURPOSE ago be different. Plenty of people the same in the business. I’ll be happy to do a quick segment on anything you think I didn’t explain well.
Its because he is talking out his ass. If he knows anything he isn’t going to give it away, just enough for you to hang yourself.
The tumble is a function of the physics of his top of swing (laid off). No cross the line guys tumble. From Freddie to Jack to Daly. They all fall under from P5 to P7. That is one way to do it. Hogan, Nick Price, Sergio are the opposite. Some are in the middle. All patterns work. But it isn’t conscious it is physics. 1000%.
... in a nutshell Malaska was right all along!
He’s literally showing you the Malaska move but explaining it in a much more complicated way 🤷♂️
Yes. And because he just doesn't want to reveal the magic😂
Don't "shallow" the shaft ... the wrong way. Some of this and some of this at 2:58/3:11 down at the ball, doesnt work without the force that's keeping it up at 2:24
Seems like the older Italian-American has the younger Italian-American, mesmerized . . . he certainly succeeded getting through too me.
Just confused. All the dudes you did all the schools with were wrecking swings in the process? What was your epiphany moment when you came to this realization?
The grip is important? Wow, profound.
That’s Malaska
And Butch Harmon and basically all tour pros
That’s as clear as mud
Totally can not follow this guy- as with the previous video. Ready to move on from this series.
@bebettergolf Would be great if you caught up with @Shortgamechef again!
Obviously he is a little verbose, but I love some of his ideas on the swing. Some of these other “internet age” teachers are charlatans. Please give us more. 👍
This is the biggest bunch of bullshit I’ve ever seen anyone speak. Not to mention the communication style is utter nonsense. This is where you go if you never want to leave. This is designed to keep you as a student for the rest of your life instead of elevate you and get you on your way.
Not a fan of Brian. He talks a lot but says little of value. I think he would be better in a one on one lesson but his teaching technique is not focused enough for video lessons. Too much jumping around, name dropping and telling you how he’s the man. Never heard of him before seeing him on your channel.
I just realized that he doesn't want to reveal the magic. Whenever he is too close, he finds a way to talk and talk and talk and talk....😂
First create confusion by insinuating there is a widespread misconception, then clear it up to portray the illusion of expertise.
Golf is easy……..SHIFT……….AMG has an excellent vid and a couple OK ones on shallowing.
Sorry, already eh, after a minute. Just shouldn’t be that hard to follow, but he’s prob kinda adhd no offense, I am too. But I need the ending of his sentences.
He’s a hard listen….
He talks in riddles not getting any value at all from these videos with Brian Manzella.
Just watch the other Manzella LAG video at about min 8:40 to 8:58, and 9:06 to 9:08, I think. That's the magic and what it matters. The rest is talking and talking carefully just to not reveal the magic hahaha
This guy is confusing asf
Whoever this teacher is needs a better vocabulary of explaining what he’s trying to explain
You mean gamma force doesn’t mean anything to you? Don’t feel bad, it doesn’t mean anything to anyone
See ball, hit ball. Al this other crap is marketing.
I love how he spouts B.S. about how Sergio’s swing works and then you show a video of Sergio that doesn’t do what he’s trying to tell us that he’s doing! This channel is terrible at showing so many contrasting ideas with most of them being B.S.
An aware person watching this channel… congratulations for not being in the matrix
If that’s what you saw then you missed the whole point. Kinematics vs. kinetics. Sergio’s swing does shallow but the visual look of it doesn’t coincide with the timing of the forces being applied. When it appears visually that he’s physically applying a shallowing rotation to the club he’s actually applying an opposite rotation to the club. It just takes time to overcome the inertia of the backswing. You aren’t seeing forces and torques in real time in video.
@@MJ-ul7cf That's also B.S. Just look at Sergios clubhead path and also what happens with his wrists - just not at all what this guy is describing. Also when he is trying to demonstrate Sergios movements with Brians swing by putting him in different positions he completely ignores that the first thing that happens in Sergios swing, and every pro swing, is that the transition is opening up the hips fast, which is the movement that is most contributing to the shallowing of the club shaft angle. He starts off well but then ruins it with this 'tumble' rubbish.
@@AndrewDCDrummond Sergio has MASSIVE late steepening. Which is exactly what he’s dubbed tumbling for years. The fact of the matter is that what you SEE has nothing to do with the real time application of forces and torques. Force precedes motion. He is adding tumbling force before you see it occur.
@@MJ-ul7cf Think you need to go the the optician or get a bigger screen to watch the replay of Sergios swing on.
Brian Manzella has no understanding regarding the differences between a “swingers” hand action and a “hitters” hand action. Moe Norman was a 100% SWINGER and Ben Hogan was a 100% HITTER. The vast majority of professional and amateur golfers have golf swings that are far more that of a swinger. Nicklaus was probably 50%-50%. Manzella’s understanding of the left hand grip is nonsensical. Instead see how Hogan applied his left hand grip, it was not at a 90 degree angle as was his right hand.
I’m glad to see others can see through the bullshit. If he began giving a lesson to me like this, Id just look at him and walk away.
TGM ideas have ruined countless golf swings and out of all the TGM ideas the swinger/hitter thing has ruined the most.
Remember, drug dealers, purposely create druggies. You don’t believe me watch some of the prison videos…..
@@forrestgardener8906 ….. I am and always have been a huge critic of The Golfing Machine. It’s nothing but a case study in “paralysis by analysis.” But to question that there are two distinct hand actions through impact is utterly ridiculous. Moe Norman talked all the time about his “passive hands,” while Ben Hogan told us he wished he’d had “3 right hands.” HUGE DIFFERENCE!!! Most touring professionals use a combination of both. Sergio Garcia, Jon Rahm, Dustin Johnson, Sandy Lyle, Lee Trevino and Byron Nelson-all 100% pure HITTERS. Fred Couples, Paul Azinger and David Duval-- all 100% pure SWINGERS. The swings of Snead, Player, Palmer and Nicklaus-- were all a combination of both a hitter and a swinger.
Brian Mansella has no idea whatsoever as how to create true acceleration in his own golf swing, that's why he has no idea as how to teach it. Those that understand how to create true acceleration never talk about "hitting down on the ball," we talk about "hitting through the ball." Huge Difference.
@@lookmil107 there are 3 forces and 3 torques. Everyone uses them all in different amounts and at different times. Some combinations work and some don’t. That’s golf. All of it. Nothing more. There is no “swinger and hitter”. Everyone is pulling and pushing and twisting all at the same time and dealing with the responses of the club.