Layout Operations: Manned Helpers - Part 1
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- Опубликовано: 7 янв 2024
- Track Plan: / pfbid026qpobpmoxe5d99d...
Layout Operations: Coal Train • Layout Operations: Coa...
Layout Operations: Manned Helpers Part 2 • Layout Operations: Man...
The keystone of mainline operations on my layout is the use of manned helpers. On my layout, the scene of Essex is about halfway up the grade on the western slope of Marias Pass, just like the real thing. There, a pair of GE locomotives (ET44C4 and ES44C4) are stationed to help heavy trains, such as the loaded coal train from the previous video (link above), to the top of the pass at the continental divide. The coal train features 26 cars, each weighing 9 ounces, which is quite heavy for an HO Scale car. The steepest part of the mainline grade is east (to the left) of Essex, so manned helpers are physically necessary even on my model railroad to lift the heavy train over the pass.
Though not shown in this video, the helpers are also used to help heavy EB mixed freights and the intermodal train, depending on weight and power.
In the next operations video, we'll look at another aspect of the manned helper ops: providing dynamic brake assistance in the opposite direction for loaded grain and oil trains.
Enjoy!
-Cam 
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Being a railroader, I love the real railroad lingo recordings. Makes me want to start creating railfan videos for my layout!
You should! I love the narrative aspect of making operations videos.
-Cam
Absolutely wonderful layout. Your theme and execution are exemplary. You and Daryl Kruse's Evanston Sub have raised the bar in our hobby. Thank you.
Thank you, sir! Too kind.
-Cam
I just LOVE your layout! The trackplan, the scenery, the road, everything. Thank you for sharing!
I appreciate it! Thanks so much for stopping in.
-Cam
great video! You must have very reliable track as I don't see the typical acrylic edge border to prevent the train from falling to the floor in the event of a derailment.
Great video Cam. Having spent a pile of time on Marias you're really capturing the feel. Manned helpers, Pushers in Western Canada, add so much to operations. In fact my layout was designed around a big hill just to allow for that specific operation. Love the Helper Link boxes. Inspiring me to finally build some for the "Pincher Push". Cheers! -grant
Thanks, Grant! Since the beginning, this layout too has been built around helper ops as the centerpiece. The layout concept and even locale has evolved a lot, but the helper operations have always been there. And of course, I've taken lots of inspiration from your operations video series. Actually, I'm living out in Missoula now, and having spent some time on Mullan Pass, I can't help but appreciate the parallels between the pusher operations on your layout and prototype MRL. You clearly did your research, especially with regard to mid-train pushers cutting in and out of trains.
Anyway, I need to catch up on your two recent updates. I'm excited to watch those here shortly!
-Cam
Your work is perfection in all areas, from the layout details, weathering of locos and rolling stock, video quality, attention to details, and accuracy to the real life operations. Kudos and respect :)
sheds look awesome👍👍👍
To cool 😎 I want to be a railroader myself now ❤
Glad I could help with the helper operations cam! Can’t wait to meet you again!
Yeah thanks man! The audio is super cool to have. Until next time!
-Cam
@@railfan220no problem! Stay safe
Always enjoy watching your videos. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching!
-Cam
Fantastic layout. Everything is so nicely detailed and weathered. Love watching your operations videos. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for the comment! I really appreciate it. Be on the look out for another ops video in the next few days.
-Cam
The breaking away of the helper DPUs is the coolest thing I've ever seen! I'm in tears over here!🥲😂
Glad you like that! It's pretty fun.
-Cam
awesome OP thx for the video and have a great day.😊😊👍👍
Thanks for watching!
-Cam
Very authentic operation on a stunning layout. Thanks a lot for sharing.
Thanks for watching!
-Cam
Great video as always. You are killing it. One of the best layouts out there. It is so real.
Thank you sir! You're too kind, and I'm glad you enjoyed.
-Cam
Well done! Just make sure when the helpers are tying on that your crossover are both switched to the main position.
Thanks! Yeah I noticed that after editing and I figured someone would catch that!
-Cam
12:20 As a signalist, and given the amount of realism strived for and achieved here, I feel compelled to point out that _every_ track going into an interlocking requires a signal. Even if it's a fixed _Stop_ signal.
You know I hadn't considered that I can just plop a signal there that always displays a red. I haven't yet put a signal there because I used up all of the signal allocations on my main signal board for the primary routes at all my control points. Functionally, the interlocking you're referencing is just one end of a controlled siding, so from a model operations standpoint, the lack of a 4th signal isn't disruptive to mainline traffic. But of course from a prototypical standpoint, I understand why there has to be one, and it's bothered me both from a visual and prototypical perspective. So thanks for the suggestion!
-Cam
@@railfan220 Sure thing. Fixed _Stop_ signals aren't common, but they do exist! It looks to me like you'd need at least two at this location. The track that you parked the helpers on and its switch don't need to be interlocked, so a _Stop_ dwarf just beyond it (parallel and across from the point signal) would work just fine. The track that goes off to the right at 13:00 behind the point signal also needs such a signal as its switch is within the interlocking.
It would also not be unprototypical to make the end-of-siding signal show Flashing Red _Restricting_ when the mainline isn't selected from that track. Not sure if or how easy it'd be to make the signaling system do this, but railroads know that regularly talking past _Stop_ signals is not a good idea. In this situation, with regular helper movements, I would expect the RR to implement something safer for this common movement at this location. That being said... a more grandiose interlocking would probably make this more appealing to a railroad, only because talking past _Stop_signals disregards the fundamentals of the interlocking to begin with. One switch and one signal here isn't as big of a deal as defeating the interlocking concepts at a more major junction.
@@jovetj All very good notes! These are the sorts of details that I've always been somewhat uncertain about. If I were to plan this interlocking out again, I would definitely have signals in mind a bit more. But back when the track was being laid (and again when it was being reconfigured when I switched from Crawford Hill to modeling Marias Pass), signals were in the distant future.
While the switch off of the siding isn't connected to any switch machine or individual circuit, I could still setup the CTC screen to treat it as a controlled switch. In other words, the operator on the ground could radio that the switch is lined for the tail track (like when the helpers are getting talked past the stop indication), and then the dispatcher could make the corresponding routing onto the tail track. I can easily specify that the signal displays a restricting indication for that route selection. It doesn't provide security in the way the prototype would because it requires a verbal confirmation of the switch position rather than being governed by circuitry. But I guess it would do in a pinch.
One final question: for the switch onto the yard lead that you mentioned doesn't need to be interlocked, is it an issue that the dwarf signal could not be directly across from the dual head signal on the mainline? Because of where that switch is located, the dwarf would need to be a little closer (i.e. to the left) to the middle of the interlocking. If a locomotive rolled all the way up to the signal (which I know is not recommended...but still in theory possible without tripping the block circuit), it might physically foul the mainline switch on the other track. Could I just put a cone or marker on the near track to indicate that the dwarf signal requires you to stop short of the signal?
Anyway, I really appreciate all the input!
-Cam
@@railfan220 Oh, now you've done it. I haven't delved deep enough yet into the history of your layout or channel but you've mentioned Crawford Hill. Not only was my father born in Crawford (I live in Omaha), but that's probably my favorite railfan area of them all. Especially back in the BN days.
You could always add more interlocking-like features to the other switch(es) at that interlocking later. As long as every track entrance into the interlocking has a protecting signal, it should be "prototypical enough." That's one rule or guideline that a real railroad would never be allowed to disregard. Dwarf "searchlights" or fixed-Red lights (possibly later offering Flashing Red _Restricting_ indications themselves) should be just fine. As long as they are placed at the boundary of the interlocking, it will be realistic. As the signals typically mark the boundaries of the interlocking, the interlocking circuits (or "OS circuits") start there as well. I believe some (not sure about all) modern rulebooks stipulate a certain distance in front of a _Stop_ signal that the stop must be made. A timetable would augment this if it were necessary. I think as long as an engine or car can get up to the _Stop_ signal and not trigger the interlocking/OS occupancy, it'd be just fine. You know your layout better than I so you can figure out where it's best for you.
Thank YOU for sharing your fabulous layout with all of us!
in real life, CTC can be a PAIN... so as it relates to the track that the helpers are on... i've been looking at GCOR for some clarification...
GCOR 9.17 - Entering Main Track At Hand-Operated or Spring Switch
Within CTC territory and manual interlockings, the control operator must authorize the train to enter the main track at a hand operated or spring switch *where no signal exists* The control operator must verify that there are no conflicting movements before giving the authority.
GCOR 10.1 also states the same as rule 9.17. except that rule 10.1 does mention a switch governed by a signal
A crew member still has to call the control operator to enter the main track, signal or no signal.
That's the PAIN of CTC. It's not like the freedom of mainline movement enjoyed under *GCOR 9.14 Movement With The Current of Traffic*
I think I like your layout because it's so different. Maybe even "unconventional ". It's well designed and thought out and I'm sure very enjoyable to run. Nice job.
Thank you! There are definitely unique elements to it.
-Cam
Great layout. Thanks for the video and the explanation, good job.
Thanks for watching!
-Cam
Wow.. looks and sounds so freakin real.. great job buddy .. and I like how the helpers break away.. that blew me away.. great job my friend.. keep up the great work..
Killer job!
Thanks for watching!
-Cam
Interesting you're using C4s as helpers, the crews must hate you 😂
You need AC traction for this kind of job
@speedymouse2859 @@OperatorMaxYT I couldn't tell you why, but they almost exclusively use C4s (ES44C4 or ET44C4) and DC power (ES44DC or Dash 9) for the Essex helpers in real life. Seems exactly like the sort of job you'd want 6 AC traction motors for, but I would imagine being able to throw whatever power in the helper pool adds flexibility that the railroad appreciates.
-Cam
Excellent operations video... love the radio correspondence and lingo. Nice work!
Thanks for watching!
-Cam
hello Railfan220 & it's is Randy and i like yours video is cool Thanks Railfan 220 Friends Randy
Thanks, Randy!
-Cam
Beautiful layout BTW.....
very nice layout and a great video
Thanks for stopping in!
-Cam
Great great job!!! Real operations on steep grade!!! Finally!!! Which ballast did you use? It seems very fine sand mixed colours, thanks!
Thanks! I primarily used Scenic Express blended gray #50 ballast.
-Cam
2:25 Weird green signal barely lit
how wide is the layout at the esics sideing in inches
Outstanding as usual!!!! Hey, you use CATS correct? If so, I can help get rid of the erratic yellow blinking signal. I had the same issue and figured out how to trick the system. Let me know. Keep up the great work!
Thanks man! I do use CATS. Yeah for some reason that one signal does a weird job of displaying an approach medium. I checked all of the boxes on each of the signals to make sure they use "hardware flashing" because I use an SE8C signal board. At first I was messing around with using software flashing to display more complex aspects. That caused too much LocoNet traffic, so I reverted back to just the 4 aspects (red, yellow, flashing yellow, green) with hardware flashing enabled. I'm thinking I just forgot to disable software flashing for that one signal...what do you think?
-Cam
@@railfan220 Yeap I have the same exact setup with SE8C’s and what you’re saying is spot on. The problem is that when you set up your signal aspects on CATS and you also program the flashing yellow address it conflicts. What I did is that I used non-flashing aspects on cats but when asked to assign Throw or Close on the yellow aspect I choose throw instead of close which in turn makes that yellow flash steadily. I hope that makes sense. Good luck. PS…I split my loconet in 2 to avoid data overload and it’s working flawlessly
@@railfan220 I hate to be the one to say it, but irregular flashing is not unprototypical. Seen it several times IRL myself! LOL!
Like to see how you set up your consist to make this work
This video explains elements of how I program my locomotives: ruclips.net/video/BoEA64W9ldI/видео.html
And for clarity, I just operated the coal train (the 3 lead units and 1 DPU) on one throttle and then operated the helpers on a separate throttle, as would be done during an ops session.
-Cam
Great video! In the real world, wouldn’t all loaded coal trains run in a westerly direction?
Good catch! Yes, they almost always do...but sometimes weird things happen. This particular train represents the detoured U-SWECKB which is the one BNSF coal train that gets loaded near Sparwood, BC. It begins its journey as a CPKC train (816) and usually heads east over Crowsnest Pass before entering the US and changing hands from CP to BNSF at Sweetgrass, MT. However I'm pretending that flooding has caused this train to detour to the south first before heading east. It's an unlikely routing, changing hands between 3 railroads, but in theory it could happen. To me, it's a lot more fun to run heavy loads up the grade, so a unique premise makes it make sense to me even though it's so rare.
Also worth mentioning is the time recently that coal loads were running east over the line because of a strike at the Roberts Bank export terminal in British Columbia: railfan.com/loads-west-loads-east-port-strike-means-unusual-coal-moves-in-pnw/
Thanks for the comment!
-Cam
@@railfan220 Great explanation. I have commented on your layout before. Love the snow sheds. I am a big fan of your railroad, and of a more personal note you have a great voice on your videos. I also thought your uncoupling on the move was really very cool. One other comment, about a month or two ago you showed a shot that made it look like a telephoto lens shot, that made the track work look crooked, which was a magnificent shot - so realistic. I had to laugh when somebody commented on your “crooked track”. Keep up the great videos, as I am also enjoying your scenery work as it progresses. Am I to assume you will have a few more snow sheds ?
I tried ho scale. but found out n scale. you could get a bigger layout on the same size layout on a shelf. My layout starts at the Fraser river & ends in the cariboo town of William's lake B.C BC rail roading.
Nice! I'm definitely considering a switch to N scale for my next layout. I love how much "big time" railroading you can fit in a reasonable space. But honestly I think N scale is well suited to big spaces because you can faithfully render a sense of scale. It's very versatile for sure.
-Cam
@@railfan220 A lot of the detail available in HO seems to be unnoticeable or missing in N, though.
Do you host public ops sessions? I have my own BNSF ScaleTrains, and Athearn locos and I'd love to run these on a full layout. I'm 17 so don't exactly have the space or money to build my own.
what type of couplers are. those?
Okay in the area models I thought they done away with men help her when it's where he models and only use dpus nowadays to help train stop the hill why do they use man helpers cuz I thought they'd done away with that a long
The helpers on Marias Pass aren't used as often as I used them on my layout, but they are still used even on trains with DPUs. This video is a great example of a line where helpers are added to almost every WB train, and almost all trains that required manned helpers also have DPUs.
-Cam
@@railfan220well I got kind of cures back cuz I know at least they want to come to CPUs I thought they always use DPS for men helpers nowadays instead of men helpers
@@joshwalton133 I think they use DPUs most of the time because the railroads would rather not pay for extra crew shifts. BUT, there are still places where the grades are steep enough that the railroads think it's more efficient/cost effective to use a permanent manned helper set vs. adding an extra locomotive or two for the whole trip.
Well I already know that they were trying to get rid of people and my friend knows that are trying to get rid of people because they just don't give a s*** even if they were trying to be a fish and they don't really