Bathroom Pull Cord Switches - Required or Not?
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- Опубликовано: 9 авг 2017
- Light switches in UK bathrooms are often pull cord types, but are these things a requirement and can a normal wall switch be fitted?
For those outside the UK, note that 'bathroom' here refers to a room with a bath or shower in it. Light switches in such rooms are traditionally ceiling mounted types with a pull cord attached.
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I love your (very calm) rants about seemingly mundane things. It makes me happy to know someone cares so much about these things.
you need to check out the one about ring finals then! ;)
I just love John's videos, so happy he takes the time to make them and advise us on all aspects of electrical work. Thanks john, keep it up.
John I love your subjects presented in the dry humor flair! This video is a great mix of important info and your style makes gives me a pleasing smile!
Great video John, what about the typical pull cord isolator for the electric shower? Is there actually any requirement for them, is the isolation ability provided by a dedicated MCB or RCBO enough? It doesn't seem like they type of thing a typical shower user should need to operate, surly that's the job of the built in switch on the shower itself?
So glad you made this straight to the point video, and found it just in time, many thanks.
I love how you put it out there. No BS ,straight to the point, excellent! 👍
Thanks for taking the time to post this video, very well explained !
Thanks John, though I suppose I'm so used to seeing the pull string switches (have one myself) and assuming they are keeping me safe, I still get a mental recoil when I see a wall switch in a bathroom and use it with trepidation. I'm seeing standard wall switches more often in places like hotels and no doubt the grot factor you mentioned makes them preferable there.
Brilliantly explained and I like the definition of a pull cord switch grotty manky that's exactly what they are
I do agree that pull chords are grotty.I cringe when I see them in peoples house.They're manky because people have grotty hands and let the chord go manky....lack of hygiene/cleaning! Not everyones is manky though....chord in my bathroom has been there 28 years used by a family of 5...brought 3 kids up here (all adults now) chord and the 3 inch stone fish ( instead of plastic bobble thing) are cleaned/ disenfected daily!
People need to be less manky and lazy then there wouldn't be grotty chords! It takes literally seconds! Just sayin 🙂😀🙏
I always wondered about the regulations. Thanks John well explained.
Brilliant. Clear exposition and good news
Excellent information dear sir as always. Such info is important during building design for everyone.
Well, that clears that up then! Thanks JW..... Very useful 2 minutes...... 🙂
Very informative as usual, many thanks.
Thank you that was useful information.
I was alway told it was a regulation due to modern fully tiled bathrooms and shower units and the subsequent condensation running down the walls.
All bathrooms need an extractor on New builds
Thanks for the clarification.
Nice clarification 👍👍
Here in USA, completely rubber clad light switches are available for use in damp locations, but these are usually used on 277v in commercial installations
Thank you. You save a half day of my work!
The only time I seen a pull switch in a bathroom (in New Zealand) is for fan heaters or extractor fans but they are rare now as they are replaced by integrated heat lap/fan ceiling units.
In Finland the switch is outside. Since there is only one way to go there and you never turn lights off when inside it can nicely be outside. Often it is a double switch with the room that is on the outside or with sauna.
Light switch for the shower/bath wet room here in Japan is usually right next to the door for said wet room. Controls for the fan to extract the water out after you've had your shower are usually right next to it. So there are tons of cases where you are wet head to tail and you're close to or touching a few different twiddly bits that are connected to the mains. Haven't heard of anyone being killed yet. Only place you see pull cords over here are for older lighting fixtures that don't have a remote usually in a room that doesn't have a light switch on the wall.
Australia standard AS3000 is pretty much identical, and in fact I think we even have the same diagram with the Zones. Ours looks like a bad photocopy so I always wondered where the Standards Committee got it from LOL.
John thank you that something I never know, just one question can you also mount a shower isolation switch for say an electric shower also in the bathroom or does this still have to be located outside?
Yes, provided it's outside of the zones, which is the same 60cm distance from the edge of the bath.
@@jwflame thank you
@@jwflame does the switch always have to be more than 60cm from bath? What about if the switch is closer than 60cm, but there is a fixed glass shower screen between the bath and the switch which will prevent direct water jets reaching the switch and prevent people in the bath from reaching the switch?
Can you use an ip rated switch?
I'm from the UK, but emigrated to the US just over a decade ago. For some reason, despite having used them for 30 years, my brain seemed to completely forget about pull-cord bathroom light switches the moment I left the UK. I am momentarily bamboozled the first time I step into a dark bathroom when I go back to visit.
I certainly don't miss flailing around in the dark trying to find the cord in the middle of the night.
Hey guys... I'm trying to get hold of more test papers for level 2 city and guilds 2365 electrical science. Can anyone tell me where u can get more practice papers
nice and straight to the point, thank you sir
I have an isolation Shower switch in my bathroom well away from my shower unit ,just wondered do you leace the switch on all the time or would you recommend turning it off after shower use ? im now on my third switch over 7 years
You can leave it on all the time, it's only there for maintenance purposes.
@@jwflame Thank you , shower was working perfectly yesterday after fitting the new Isolation switch come to it tonight no light and no live feed to it looks like an MCB problem now pain in the arris ,wondering if a faulty MCB caused the switch to burn out .when the MCB is on theres no power to the Isolation switch my spark cant do anything till a week on monday grrrr
My mother had a washing machine plugged into an ordinary mains (220V) outlet in the bathroom. This was at about 4-6 feet away from the bath, though that was in New Zealand. Whether the circuit had extra protection in the supply such as an ELCB, RCD or whatever they are called these days, I'm not sure.
No chasing with a ceiling switch though - guess thats why its so common
John Ward
I didn't have a problem with shower pull cords - until our cord snapped clean off and it is not obvious how to re-thread a new cord into the square fascia, plus there is zero play in the numerous cables behind the cover to safely remove & look properly. Any ideas?
Time for a new switch.
In some bathrooms, the door opens away from the bath/shower so a wall switch near the entrance may be legal but not convenient.
Can you answer a question on a completely different topic. Your the man to know. If ze stands for impedance external what does zs stand impedance ? Thanks
Impedance system - that of the whole circuit wiring plus the external impedance.
Can a shower 45 amp isolating switch be mounted on a bedroom wall directly opposite the shower unit the other side of the wall in the bathroom. The shower access is through the bedroom ensuite doorway to the right.
Yes, bathroom zones only apply in the bathroom itself.
Excellent. I've been saying this for as long as i can remember. Theirs simply no need to keep turning the power on and off with a shower unit and the damn string keeps snapping anyway. I only put a fused switch nearby.
Got a pull cord for our shower, but the odd thing is the light switch for the bathroom is outside in the hallway on the wall, that said it's a small bathroom so i'm guessing it was to comply with regulations back then, the house I live in was built in the 30's.
John, can you answer a question? Some one says too heavier a pull cord will make the switch arc, is that correct?
It's possible, if the cord has a weight on the end it could prevent the switch from operating properly.
@@jwflame Thank you.
I used batteryless remote switches for my bathroom, which means the switch (or actually the remote panel) can be within 60cm of the bath. Sidesteps the whole issue. Also is easy retrofit where pull-cords were in place. Look on Amazon for "acegoo".
That's exactly what I was thinking when I was watching this video. Seems like an ideal solution.
Hi, how did you wire it? My pull cord switch only has two wires, com and L1. But there are three wires coming off acegoo wireless switch relay? Which will go where?
@@6Shery9 Good point. The lampholder was nearby so fetched a neutral from it. You do need a neutral, yes. Yeah, so not as easy as I made it sound, sorry!
Thank you John. Your videos always make me think.
You mention baths but increasingly we have shower rooms without baths. Do the same regs apply to basins and shower trays and steam cubicles?
Actually we have just refurbished our house and the bathroom switches are on the outside and I wanted that simply because although I know they can be in bathrooms, when you come out of a shower, you can still move two feet and have very wet hands on a wet floor. Over the top but then I insisted on separate RCBO's for every circuit as well;-)
Applies to showers and baths. Slightly different distances if it's a wetroom (shower without an enclosure). Does not apply to basins or anything else.
We still have a switch in the bathroom, I thought it was illegal but as the wiring dates back to 1960 it was installed before that regulation
I love the, to the point explanation. We fitted a light switch in a customers bathroom. only to have the customer say. "A friend of ours said the switch shouldn't be there". I explained that it was fine but they weren't happy!
What do showers class the same as a bath
Just to be clear for all those criticising and saying the switch should be outside due to wet hands, so what your suggesting is a person exiting a bathroom with wet hands would not be in any danger turning off the light, if it was outside the bathroom? Erm! same wet hands, same kind of switch! Unless the hands miraculously become dry as you exit the bathroom that is!! John is correct, at time of upload!
But think wet walls and switch, rather that just wet hands....
@@stepassant why wet walls and switch? unless the whole installation of the bathroom is wrong. no ventilation and switch within zones etc
If it's outside of the special installation zones then you don't have to comply with part 7 but you still need to comply with part 1-6 and the proximity of mutual and detrimental influences is part of that. Wet person touching switch, the switch would need some kind of IP rating I believe.
John excellent video if you have time can you create a video on how you change from a manky pull cord to a normal light switch please. Thanks
John,i have a half roll of 2.5mm T&E that has been stored in and upstairs cupboard [warm and dry].and the Cable is Dated 13/01/06.
The copper is tarnished on the outside but shiny bright underneath.is this Cable still usable.tnx
Yes, PVC insulation lasts for decades and the copper even longer. Plenty of installations with similar wiring which was installed 40 or more years ago and it's still in good condition.
Thank you for replying so quickly,what i meant to say is does the tarnishing of the outer copper affect the Ohms value.
No, although tarnish can increase resistance, at mains voltages it is quickly destroyed so isn't an issue.
It can be a problem in electronics where the voltage is much lower.
Thank you for the info John,that's reassuring.
Thanks JW
I used to replace those pull cords with solid nylon strings so water cannot cause it to go black and make it really icky to touch.
We still have those stupid things in light fixtures (usually with brominated yellowed plastic color) that attracts dust and insect droppings like a magnet from 50 feet away from the earth. I do that to those too.
single nylon monofilament like a strimmer wire would be an improvement, I guess that the industry would move to these if it found a way of making them hang straight instead of coiling... how do you manage it?
joinedupjon
Those weed whacker replacement strings are very good for this purpose.
Else, you can get a piece of nylon filament from 3D printer market (ask for sample), unroll it, tape it to a cookie tray, and cook it in the oven for 10~30 seconds.
That's interesting, because I grew up with pull cord switches in the UK I never questioned it, I just assumed it was safer even though other countries all seemed to use normal wall switches in bathrooms without incident. As to the hygiene aspect, is the plastic grip on a cord switch really any worse than the rocker button on a wall switch? I agree the string could get manky after a few years.
Thanks for the video I would appreciate if you did a segment on diodes if it is possible
And the PN junction
Fishing nylon monofiber!
No more unhigienic surface...well still same unhigienic, but just a promile of previous available surface for germs to cling on. And teflone coating help too ;-)
*No, it is not hard to grab a nylon line, just hard to see it in the dark perhaps.
why i want to put switch inside the bathroom. In Europe they outside
what about sockets John, I'd like to ad a couple in my bathroom. Thank you.
I doubt it would be legal in most countries to have anything other than transformer isolated electric shaver sockets.
not perrmitted in zones or within 3m of zone 0 in UK. Pretty much all the rest of the world permits sockets in bathrooms.
Standard sockets are now allowed bathrooms are allowed if they are at least 3 metres from the designated wet areas and are protected by an /RCBO (GFCIs for Americans). Other than that, you can have a shaver socket which are protected by an isolating transformer.
Might be good to extend this with a part ii on kitchens too
It's the "old wives tale" effect. My mum always told me never to touch a switch with wet hands. Perhaps 'twas true many moons ago when we had very open bakelite switches.
Scott...
It is still true you fool, you never press an electric switch with wet hands.
This seems to be the same situation as a light switch at the front door, rear door or garage when your entering from outside and its pouring with rain. I've seen a pull switch at the entrance to a garage side door but never at the front door or rear door. Its easily possible to be still standing outside in the rain when switching on the hall light.
Interesting vid . However I still prefer switches on the outside , hot steamy showers and condensation on walls running down even with an extractor , it seems daft having anything electrical in a bathroom that's unnecessary .it isn't a hardship to turn the light on from the outside .
Suspension of reality2 What you are talking about is a UK fashion. In most countries it'd be considered daft to have the switch outside the room. The only time that applies in Australia is when the vanity basin is close to the door, as our "Zones" also apply to water carrying vessels like basins and baths. In any case, we just install ELV (safety low voltage) if we want lights or switches in areas that are close to water. In Australia, it's common to have lights in the shower cubicle, and all manner of heaters, lights, power outlets, music players, TVs, etc in bathrooms (all with switches and power outlets).
John Coops I disagree, I think it's an excellent idea to have the switch outside & minimal electrics in a bathroom ,I think it's a great British idea
I'm struggling to find bathroom wall light with pull chains! Can you put a normal wall light with a toggle on it on the all above the bathroom mirror?
Little...
It's called a 'pull cord'.
@@redblade8160 thanks for the clarification! Actually the wall sconces with the little metal chain often seem referred to as pull chain, as opposed to the chord operated ceiling ones. m.beautifulhalo.com/contemporary-globe-wall-light-with-pull-chain-frosted-glass-wall-lamp-in-gold-for-dining-room-p-363702.html?currency1=GBP&track=PA_G_SGB325&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2JqW5Z2G7AIV1untCh2xdA4CEAQYAiABEgKV4_D_BwE
In Australia every house I've been in has a dual socket right next to the mirror in the bathroom. When recently in the UK I was surprised about not only the lack of sockets but also of light switches inside bathrooms. It's pretty difficult to 'accidentally' drop a hair dryer into the bath or sink!
Sam Johnson Cos regulator thinks that pepole are stupid in uk... and they will play with electricity with wet hands ;)
Some people certainly are stupid.
See www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39307418
Man gets a 5V power supply wet and apparently it's Apple's problem because there was an iPhone connected to it. I'm going to assume Samsung chargers are fine for use in the bath?
Yes, it is common knowledge that Samsungs are used IN the bath as a water heater.
Here in the US we usually have wall switches in the bathrooms. However, in a few cases, some have a pull cord that is part of the lighting fixture in the room.
I've never even heard of people being electrocuted by touching a wet light switch. Then again, we use 120V.
Also, our wall switches typically (Well, I haven't seen one without it) have a metal plate on the front, so presumably if water did enter the switch, it would likely conduct mostly to the metal, assuming the switch has been installed correctly (correctly grounded). Of course, this means we get those annoying static shocks sometimes if we brush up against the grounded metal screws on the cover plate during the winter time! XD
P.S. By "metal plate" I'm referring to the construction of the switch itself, not the cover plate that covers the switch and junction box. Those can be metal or plastic - I prefer metal but yeah many people use plastic because it is cheaper.
So my entrance wall to my shower room is 1 meter from my shower. Does that mean the light switch and the fan isolator can be on that wall.
Yes, just needs to be more than 60cm from the bath/shower.
Surely you must have to take into consideration proximity of mutual and detrimental influences in other words the fact the person(s) using the bathroom could be naked, wet and the atmosphere steamy and the wall switch therefore should be an IP rated one and not a standard one... any thoughts 💭....
Kinetic light switches to the rescue as shown recently on your great channel.
If it's outside of the special installation zones then you don't have to comply with part 7 but you still need to comply with part 1-6 and the proximity of mutual and detrimental influences is part of that. Wet person touching switch, the switch would need some kind of IP rating I believe.
My bathroom has a normal switch just outside the door, which feels right given the size of the room. However, ironically enough I have a spare bedroom upstairs which also has my hot water tank in a closed cupboard just beside the door, and in that room I have a pull cord light switch: full mank factor, knot repairs in a couple of places etc. Bear in mind that I don't actually have access to the water in that tank (unless it leaks!). I don't know if the cord was dictated by the geometry (the cupboard door covers the space a switch might have gone - but the switch could have gone outside?), or by safety regs in the 1960s when the plumbing work was done.
MrSwanley - in some houses dating from the 1960s and 1970s, in the main bedrooms, there are pull cord switches above the most likely location where the bed will be positioned. This is in addition to the wall switch near the door. Both are wired as a two way circuit.
Thanks for the vid
Kinetic light switches will make this even better. Could have one pretty much anywhere except zone 1 in the bath and shower.
Yes good video, one clown on this platform said you need a separate isolation switch as well as a pull cord. Just shows triple check before you take on something.
In Australia your allowed a power socket in the Bathroom ,on the opposite wall away from the Bath, and about 600mm about the skin.with no problems .I lived there 30 yrs and never heard of any one being electrocuted.
JW, did you take a look at regulation 512.2 External influences? "..conditions likely to be encountered..." do you feel this regulation is satisfied when you consider a case such as person getting out of a bath or shower with wet hands and feet and wishing to operate a wall switch which may not have suitable ingress protection?
People have wet hands in other places. Switches do not have exposed live parts and any small amount of water from operating it with a wet finger will not get inside the switch.
Unclear why someone would get out of the bath dripping wet and immediately turn the light on or off.
surely its best to be safe and not have a switch where you might be completely wet
no one regulates these DIY so called experts
this guy sounds like he knows it all, I bet he doesnt
Jake Soloman John Ward is very knowledgeable and has views to be respected, my concern is that in these days of litigation if an insurer can prove a job isn't 100% compliant with regs they will push for a prosecution so as to avoid paying a claim.
I live in Oz and in my flat, the switch for the bathroom light is mounted on the outside wall of the bathroom so you have to turn it on before you go inside.
This also means that any mischievous flatmates can also switch the light off while you're taking a shit at midnight :/
mubd1234: Worse still when the electric shower switch is mounted outside, and someone inadvertently, or deliberately:) turns it off when you're in the middle of a shower and the hot water goes stone cold.
I think I've got it worse - The water pressure on my home's cold water line is so weak that someone turning the tap on in the kitchen will send scaldingly hot water through to the shower. Sometimes it literally shoots out steam it's that bad!
My dad is too stubborn about the temperature of his baths (apparently 50 Celsius is too low) to replace our 1960s gas hot water system with something a bit safer and less scalding.
A new modern condensing gas boiler would be much more efficient on gas and electric too than your old 1960s system. You can set the temperature of the water to exactly how hot you want.
Being Australian as well, this is the first time I've heard of the light switch being on the outside of the bathroom. Everywhere I've seen has had them inside,
Why do you take a shit at midnight? Are you a vampire?
Up here in Scotland there's a nasty habit of installing the bathroom light switch outside the door, often next to other light switches. Imagine the fleeting panic when someone searching for a switch accidentally plunges you into darkness while you're trying to poo...
Its worse if you are in the bath and have to get out and find the door.
If I am not mistaken it's the same in all ex USSR countries. It's not a problem to have it outside. Just don't have it next to other switches. We tend to let people in advance which switch is which 😁. Labels help as well.
Is there any regulation or how far a switch has to be from a sink?
No.
Common sense applies, and there are some other organisations such as NHBC that recommend distances such as 300mm.
I have often wondered why pull cords and switches on the outside of bathrooms is the done thing, even after I read the regs regarding this I still fitted a pull cord as I thought it must of been in the regs somewhere as its common practice
Yet again John you destroy this myth of switches having to be located outside the bathroom 👍 let's hope they can clearly state this what some see as a grey area in next year's 18th edition?
Jbeckvideo - no clarification is required, and there is no grey area in the regs. It's very clear... the problem comes from electricians not actually reading it, and/or not being able to read and hence just doing the same as they always did.
Love the sarcasm! It is needed with many things in Britain.. Like two taps on basins...I still don't understand the logic behind it and would love to know!
Originally, cold water was from the mains supply, hot from a cylinder supplied by a cistern/tank in the roof. Hot was therefore at a much lower pressure and would not work properly with a single mixer tap. Hot water from such systems was not considered suitable for drinking either, the tank in the roof often had no lid and all kinds of unpleasant things ended up in it, which is another reason to keep it separate from the mains supplied cold drinking water.
Modern systems supply hot water at the same pressure as the cold, so most newer properties can and often do have a single tap, although two separate taps is still an option if people want that.
ElaJ I never tap the basin though I do turn the taps. :-)
John Ward
Great response to a snide question.Educate rather than banter 👌🏻
Still got MK pull switch in the bathroom put in back in the 80's, still working no problem, easier to fit too saves chasing the wall out!
Richard Tyler q
ive still got my bathroom mk one fitted, since 1963, still working, ony just replaced some period round flouro fittings too, that never died (bathroom remodel, but saved the old pullcord!)
Jusb1066 Yep, The MK fittings from the 80's and earlier are by far better quality and build than the crappy modern Chinese made ones!
Richard Tyler Doesn't that go for everything? I used some Chinese gate valves in my central heating system. When it came to change the circulator pump one of the valves had failed and I had water everywhere. Replaced with genuine Pegler valves, still made in Yorkshire, but several times the price.
@@RichardTyler68 Regrettably I have to agree with you 100%. So sad to see "value engineering" downgrading what was a very good manufacturer
John - I'm interested in your opinion on pull-cord or other isolators for showers - what are they for? What about comedians who switch them off from outside when you're in the shower? Have you ever stayed in a house and hunted for the damn thing? Aren't they awkward to wire in with the 10mm2 cable?
They are mainly there because the manufacturers installation instructions state they should be fitted.
Their only real purpose is to isolate the shower for maintenance or cleaning.
Thanks. I forgot to install one, but it may have been a Freudian slip - I don't like them and can't really see the advantage over isolating at the MCB (what if a bleary-eyed teenager switches on for an afternoon shower while you're working?! I bought the isolator - just didn't fit it.
John Ward Remote isolation for a third party in the case of failure, i.e. Fire, electrocution. Etc.
Yes, I suppose. Hard to argue against that, but it also introduces the problem of someone switching the thing on while you're working. AFAIK, the regs do not require one, other than saying to follow the manufacturer's instructions. Anyway, I'll be a good boy in future and install them ;).
The idea of shower isolation switches is to provide suitable and safe isolation so that (say) a plumber can safely work on the electric shower. The relevant term is "local isolation". So the isolation switch should be installed local to the shower it feeds. Local so that the person working on the shower would be aware of anyone else trying to switch the isolation switch on...
When fitting an electric shower where previously there had not been an electric shower, the pull cord isolation switch type is often far more convenient to fit. Saves removing the tiles from the wall to chase out a channel in the wall.
Do wash basins come under the same guidelines?
No, and they never did.
Could the switch on the wall be within 60cm of the sink or the toilet?
Yes, the distances only apply to baths and showers.
But what about sockets? In the US/Canada, regs are GFCI required (RCD equivalent) which can be controlled at the breaker level or by a suitable socket (and of course this is 120V). In Germany, I believe it is similar with earth-leakage detection sockets in the bathroom. In France, it seems they just put ordinary sockets wherever they want (I've seen them under the toilet). But in the UK, the only sockets I've ever seen in a bathroom are transformer models. That leads to people running extension leads in from outside for blow dryers, curling irons (and even washing machines) - adding a trip hazard to the obvious electrical risks
Socket outlets are permitted in UK bathrooms, but only if they are at least 3m horizontally from the edge of the bath or shower.
Otherwise it's just the shaver outlets with isolating transformer and limited current output.
@@jwflame Thanks - I guess that somewhat limits their presence to rather posh houses :-) Seriously, though - that restriction can result in other less-safe conditions (extension leads) and seems to be much more restrictive than other regimes. I am enjoying these educational videos. I have just learned (the hard way) that the inverter control on my lathe does not play well with a garage RCD socket
I visited Germany last year I was surprised to find a 230 volt ac socket in the bathroom.
I suppose the justification for pull switches John, may be the requirement under BS7671:2018 Part 5, 512.2 (p128) for Equipment to be of design (and selected as) appropriate to the situation in which it is to be used: The often excessive humidity, and presence of copious condensation in a bathroom probably precludes a switch without a better IP rating than a generic switch plate. That, and the increased vulnerability of person who is likely to be naked and moist!
Glad to hear this being correctly stated for a change. There are way too many people and organizations trying to add extra layers to the regs that simply aren't needed (it's risk management, not risk avoidance). Don't get me wrong, as a long term member I know that the IET is far from perfect, but they produce the only book that you need to follow.
Mark Garth - IMHO the IET regulations leave a lot to be desired. As a standard they are over complicated in areas they do not need to be, unduly restrictive in some areas, and not promoting good practice in other areas.
its like all the trade person that got fooled into doing a part p course 🤣🤣its a building regulation that's all , loved how john ward explain it simple and to the point.
Wow - who would have thought I'd be here 4 years later? Guess what? The pull cord in my bathroom has finally given up. Of to Screwfix for a replacement, tempted to swap it out for a PIR though...
thanks!
I thought the reason for a pull cord was so, you could still turn it off with slightly damp hands?
Maybe - but touching a switch with damp hands doesn't result in instant death, and people use other switches in wet locations all the time, such as toilets, kitchens or even just after coming in through the front door when it's raining outside.
@@jwflame
Terrible advice...
Might they have originally been stipulated (or at least preferred) in an era when electrical standards and quality of fittings were very different? I'm old enough to remember switches and sockets that had unearthed brass covers and outers.
Well those are still around, sold as the "Retro" look, with the best combination of brass covers and outer plates, combined with the cheapest injection moulded plastic inner parts that seemingly are barely able to hold themselves together when new, combined with tiny screws that are self tapped into terrible holes that either are too large and do not grip or are too small and split. This is combined with the thinnest brass you can find ( or even brass plated steel) and the mankiest methods of assembly ever.
Perhaps, I don't have any of the regulations before the 14th edition (1966). If it was, it would be more than 50 years ago.
A lot of the older 60s switches were better protected from damp than the new ones he shows.
what are the rules for wet rooms?
Zone 0 and 1 are extended to a distance of 1.2m from the fixed water outlet. There is no zone 2. Everything else is the same.
So a GFCI protected switch isn't allowed?
Not within 60cm of the bath. Allowed further away, and it must have a GFCI / RCD regardless of where it is located in the bathroom.
Thank you so much. Common sense prevails.
your dry sense of humour is the same as mine
I have a socket right next to my kitchen sink. Kids soaked it a few weeks back and it started arcing and smoking. Nobody died but i got a nice jolt when i touched it to check if it was deadly.
Better get rid of it then
If that's the way you decided it was the best way to check it you deserved it lols!
I'm a tenant of a Housing Association (HA), when these properties were built the designer got away with placing a standard 2 gang socket just 3" to the right of the kitchen taps, so level with the edge of the sink, and at a height of 4" above the top of the sink. Had a electrical safety inspection last year and the guy was astonished to see a socket so close to the taps. It's always been a concern for me but the HA refuse to do anything about it citing that at the time of construction the plans were passed and deemed safe. As for my bathroom, I can touch all four walls whilst in the bath! I wouldn't be happy if we didn't have pull cord switches or switches outside the bathroom!
Does this change in 18th Edition?
Not in the draft version, same as the 17th.
Thanks, a great followup would be to cover sockets and any other electrical stuff in the bathroom.
We have installed a PIR sensor instead of the unhygienic string of death. Can't have a candle lit bath but it's worth the trade off.
the bathroom in my parent's house, the switch couldn't be located inside the bathroom unless it was a pull cord, so the switch was fitted outside the bathroom next to the door handle.
Erik - the switch COULD have been installed inside the bathroom. The electrician who installed it simply didn't understand the regulations, didn't know how to do it safely and compliantly, and/or your parents chose to have the switch outside like is the fashion in the UK. If your parents wanted a switch inside the door, then it certainly IS possible to do that and be fully compliant and safe.
true, however my parents didn't have a choice in the matter, they bought is like this.
also the light switch for the bathroom is combined with the other switches for the hallway light and the the light on the next floor, in a single frame.
In my house the light switch is like 20cm away from the bath, but the thing is its outside of the bathroom :D
John Ward your bravery is comendable and your successful self appoinment as the electrical industry expert here on you tube is impressive, I hope your faithful followers stay safe from harm, and I hope you are never visited by an even higher expert to answer for your preachings.
Who regulates these you tube self appointed experts
brave or fool hardy
if JW is wrong why does he get so many likes
Hope John ward is insured for when someone gets a shock by following his advice
preaching? jw is reading the regulation how is that preaching?
Good point, John.
I always thought you Brits are really paranoid about electricity in the bathroom. In my house I have the consumer unit (breaker box) in the downstairs bathroom and I'm still alive and well ;)
Bastian.
You're still taking a risk you fool...
@@redblade8160 No need to get offensive. In my opinion an electric shower that constantly is in contact with water is a much higher risk than a plastic breaker box in the bathroom wall well away from water.
In germany, france and other such EU countries they run on 240v AC as we do. They also have unshuttered sockets, light switches in bathrooms, unshuttered 240v sockets in bathrooms and so on so forth. They rely on people having this thing called "common sense" which seems to have been trained out of us in the UK. The only defence I can find for the pull cord is the wate rvapour issue. However, when in Germany I just don';t touch the switch until the bathroom is dry! That said, the lightswitches are so well inmsulated over there you would need it to be absoloutely flooded before you became live.
The worst thing about those pull cord switches is the loud noise they make in the middle of the night!
Thankfully, there is new technology such a a lightbulb with a pir built right in or one with a microwave motion sensor built in
Yes, and then you have people fitting ridiculous things like pull cord dimmers because they don't make a click noise.