Newly Refurbished Electrical Shambles
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- Опубликовано: 4 июн 2024
- A 2 bedroom 'newly refurbished' flat with plenty of recent electrical work, but no certificates and it doesn't comply with BS7671. Featuring recycled old sockets, a consumer unit from 30 years ago, plugs from the 1980s and a generous helping of couldn't be bothered.
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You should make this into a series. Inspecting dodgy electrical installations.
agree 100%
agreed
Not quite the same thing, but if that would appeal to you then you might enjoy the channel "Big Clive".
Welcome to my world.
I see it daily!
@@markhardacre1 Is this what the inside of the average "affordable" new build looks like?
I'm guessing this is the work of a semi retired builder who does the lot. Equiped with a pair of rusty side cutters, a neon screwdriver and a battered cardboard box that contains a useful array of old and new random 'electrical stuff' plus a load of random recycled off cuts of cable'.
Only testing needed is to throw open the main switch with fingers crossed no breakers trip and the job is golden!
This made me laugh!
I must say, I am never really surprised by John. He has an incredibly dry sense of humour which has me bursting with laughter every time.
It's the usual 'I wouldn't expect anything else look' that you detect.
Shear brilliance with his personal touch. 😁
lmao
This video is bl00dy funny 😆
It's tempting to say "typical DIY job" but the more I come across "professional" work the more I realise that diyers often do a far superior job. New build provides ample evidence for this.
When we moved into a new build we had lights that wouldn't turn off and one bedroom didn't even have a light switch as the plasterers had boarded it over and nobody noticed. I agree about the DIYers, most will actually research the correct way to do things. My current house was plastered by carpenters, plumbed by plasterers and wired by plumbers. That should upset most trades :-)
diymostthings I was called to a new build, 1 year old, no PME connected, but the Earth wire was just hanging there.
I agree DIY’s would frequently do a better job but they’ve got all day to do it. The issues with this installation smack of pressure to get it done and move on to the next one.
Couldn’t agree more. I do all my own work (except brick laying and plastering! 😆). As for the other trades it’s impossible to get anyone, in my experience. Cheaper and quicker to DIY, also you get the job you want, not how the contractor thinks you should have it! 😆 - like the electrician who said “a 12” fan will suck the knives and forks off the table”.
“That’s the one I want”, I replied. “Well, I’ll only fit a 6” one”.
Bye bye. I’ll do it myself!
RMLectronics UK I do all my own work. Including plastering and bricklaying 😛
But, seriously, I have done all of my own electrical too including changing the CU. Why? Because I tried 2 “professional electricians” one of which I caught pulling with all his force a T&E cable between the architrave and door lining (because it was “easier to run it that way”!!) The cable was fucked (stretched) and he was told to piss off. The rest of his 1st fix was shite too.
So I do it all to the regs and then got a PAT for the BCO.
I live in my house with my wife and daughter. I want it done correctly. If even it takes me longer.
And don’t get me started on plumbers....
As a gas engineer I would be concerned that the grommets were not correctly fitted to the boiler, as many boilers nowdays have room sealed cases. On average I'm inspected by Gassafe every 7 years. After my last inspection I had a cuppa and a chat with the Gassafe inspector, one of the things that he mentioned was that Gassafe were cracking down on grommets being omitted, or fitted incorrectly. If you can see light through a grommet, then under fault conditions products of combustion including carbon monoxide could enter the living space, with dire consequences.
Typical conversation down the pub. “Yeah I can re-wire your flat for a grand mate”.
yeah...and that'll be an electrician!
yep standard pub job ,pain in the arse.
I'm not even from the UK, and even I, a lowly apprentice, can pick out so many code violations. "Help, my ovens got a fault! Let me open up the cupboard next to it, crawl in, pull stuff out, to reach the isolator!"
Unfortunately we see lots of this shoddy work. Wiring standards are getting worse. I call it builder spec. I don't wish to offend any builders at all but then again they shouldn't be working with electrics.
H J Beck - I also watch you on RUclips :) I have to say that I bought and refurbished two houses by myself (no electrics though). Even I could manage to put on correct sleeving, use new plugs and screw things to the bloody wall. I think a poster above got it right, it's all about speed these days.
Made to look good but behind the scenes very poor, or as my mother would have said "All fur coat and no knickers".
LOL Haven't heard that expression in years :)
Yeah exactly. Btw. this is how the most of the software is made today. Just to look good, not to work good.
Like most reality TV bull today
Sounds like my kind of woman.
@@mirogula indeed, plenty of software is lazy with its bloat and resource usage. The dependence on thirst for faster cpu's and bigger RAM and storage covers up the problem
The installer got brownie points with the Environmental Agency. Loads of recycling going on there.
I'm afraid this is all too common in rented accommodation in the UK, when the person with the money says, "just get it done".
The less money spent on refurb, the quicker the flat pays for itself in rent...
Similar here in the USA.
Landlords can be a PITA, they will neglect to fix problems, or try to fix it themselves.
Plus, I feel bad for the GOOD landlords who are blown off by horrible renters, and have little legal way to get compensation. (We're talking, tenants that WRECK the inside, like, it needs to be gutted - plaster/drywall, flooring, etc... the whole lot. Costs thousands of dollars to repair, and those types of renters tend to also neglect rent payments too.)
I am not a qualified electrician but even I would never dream of doing anything as shoddy as this!
Sadly, no surprises here. JW , you did a couple of EICR's for us while we were house hunting. Often beautiful places with "wow" factor design and appalling electrical installations. We looked at so many that were so bad they never even made it to our "to be considered" list.
17:34 Imagine someone reaching in with wet hands for some soap or something and hitting that... dear me, that place is bodged. I hope the gas has been checked out as well.
Exactly but what on earth did they have in mind 🤔
A neighbour rigged up the exhaust from a new cooker hood to vent into the boxing-in around the soil stack "as that went up to the vent on the roof". Apparently his brother had said it was OK so nothing I said would convince him it was wrong.
Wow. I had to rewire my whole house at the age of 24 and have it inspected by a company to enable me to get the rest of my mortgage.
These people should be struck off like they do with doctors.
This installation is pretty good compared to some I have seen, one flat I was asked to inspect had 10mm T&E cable coming up from the chippy below and passed through an open window which couldn't be closed because of the cable!
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
OMG! I rented a house where the extractor hood didn't even have a hole to let air out - worse thing the previous tenants liked oily fry-ups so you can imagine the mess. Used a whole can of engine degreaser to clean the cupboards...
I've had one of these too. Absolutely horrible when the stove burns something, for sure. I also stayed away from any kind of frying for the same reason.
That's pretty common, unfortunately.
I don't think I've lived in a house that's had a proper extraction hood that actually vents to free air. One even vented into a cupboard, which made the cupboard a grease-fest after 6 months.
Those are recirculating extractor hoods, you're supposed to use grease filters that you replace regularly and activated charcoal filters that you replace every 6 months. Having them vent to free air indoors with no filters is pointless.
The only thing i can agree on is the no certificate. Clearly has enough intelligence not to put his name to it.
John Sir, I've watched a lot of your videos. I must say. You've helped me understand a lot about wiring, circuits and spec. Am a hgv driver but love to do my own work wherever I feel safe. I've done wiring BUT always got a spark to check. I thank you for all information and advice.
I do a similar thing. I borrow an 'artic' and try to negotiate the quaint country lanes (only if I feel safe to do so) through my cotswolds village without removing any of the immaculately preened thatched cottage roofs. Reversing off the lane into my veterinary friend's farmyard is a real challenge. I struggle to avoid 'sideswiping' the locals whilst overtaking but I always get a qualified HGV driver to assist and check for me.....lol
the plug and flex probably cut from a washing machine, hence the marks at the boiler end of a cable clamp
Well DERRR, Captain Obvious. Didn't you read what was written on it?
@@johncoops6897 It was a re-wireable plug ... and the observation was valid that the flex was also from an old washing machine due to the cable retaining clamp causing the kink in the cable. Obvious that the plug was from the washing machine, but good shout on the flex. So John, stop being such an Internet dick about it.
Scary, but all to familiar in the UK unfortunately.
Thanks for sharing, and may I wish you and your family a healthy and prosperous new year.
As soon as you see a Ferroli boiler you just know everything about it is gonna be complete shite. I'm amazed the guy used ProPress fittings for that, probably cost more than the boiler 😂
Dan Reeves Can’t believe it myself , all the expense of mappress / ProPress , and a shit Ferroli boiler 🤣
Who the hell would install a boiler in a kitchen like that? As an Australian, I am totally stunned at how ugly that is. A gas boiler needs to be outside, or at least hidden away in a utility room.
*@John Coops*
You want it close by, so when it explodes, you know about it. /s
@@jovetj - Yeah - but when you're close by, doesn't that place you into the firing line?
John Coops you’d definitely know bout it! Add it to the list of weird things we do in the UK, like ring mains and washing machines in kitchens
John, Thank you so much for showing this! Being from US, we have lots of videos made doing similar quality work by people who are desperate for views! Your countrymen start commenting about how our electrical systems are crappy and yours is far superior. This show that even if your system is superior, it can still be a snafu! Very Respectfully, Kevin
Dodgy installers exist all over the world regardless of type of mains electrical system(s) in place, be they in the UK, USA, South America, Russia, Austria, India, Kenya etc. and since none of them are completely idiot proof, work as seen in this video will always exist somewhere. How better or worse different systems will be dependent on them being set up to their standards & at the moment there are pros and cons in all of them, where one might be better in some aspect it may fall down somewhere else. And because of costs & the time taken to allow the phasing in of new standards, the present systems across the world will just continue to evolve like they have done now for decades rather than start completely from scratch (I think the current UK mains electrical system was the last "new" system to be developed that didn't try to accommodate backward compatibility with a previous national standard, but it's always possible I'm wrong).
lawhec The NEC US standard is moving toward a similar system to yours in one regard. Although they are doing it for higher profit for the circuit breaker manufacturers! Lots of $40 and $50 breakers for GFCI &AFCI, rather than one or two. I recently learned that earth is not bonded to neutral there. So you have high resistance ground which limits the current and your GFCI ??Ma device trips. I like that better than our high current system here in US. Respectfully, Kevin
Obviously they just ran out of blue sleeving re: the 1mm T+N cable at the end there.
The thing about an installation like that is - that's just the stuff you can see. Imagine what's hidden out-of-sight.
A rats 🐀 nest of wires with actual rats 🐀 in there
Now that's workmanship worthy of being investigated on a weekday morning show on BBC One! Dom Littlewood would end up with repetitive facepalm injuries! I'm not really sure what is the worst thing here, the placing of switched sockets deep inside the cupboards & the inaccessibility of the cooker master switch, or the reusing the 35+ year old unsleeved mains plugs, or the live wires under the basin in the shower room, or the shoddy work of the combi boiler set up, the lack of fixings to the wall of the breaker unit as well as no note of work certification etc. etc. If I was to hazard a guess, it's either a dead lazy "Part P" qualified handyman, or some complete "jack of all trades, master of none" cowboy working cash in hand. Really, the work you've shown there JW is a good example of the phrase "not fit for purpose".
Great to see you on site. This is a truly shocking installation.. Personally , I wouldn’t certify any of it . A full rewire is the safest solution given what you saw wouldn’t you say ? You do have to wonder what the cable and terminations are like that are not visible!? Those reused plug tops are just unbelievable . Hopefully the local building inspector will be watching your video and will be paying a visit!!
i would certify it....👀🤔
with a prohibition notice lol ;-} 😂🤣😂
"building inspector" lol. They pass shit all the time
I still can't get over how the UK has those ring mains on one circuit. We don't use rings in South Africa.
Gosh my kitchen has 5 circuits (3 x20A and 2 x 30A) with 11 double sockets. I'm on three phase too, so those circuits are spread over the phases.
wow!!
I wouldn't trust that boiler in there having seen the other work!
You can put bends on flues but when permanently visible like that tt looks bad. That water pipe below fed from the undersink inlet was a bodge but strangely it was all done with pricey press fittings. That can be a sign the installer cannot trust themselves to solder properly
12:26 Reminds me of HDB flats in Singapore. No dedicated ducting for extractor fans, so the hoods in the kitchens are forced to recirculate, and the bathrooms are designed to vent passively. Aftermarket kits for the installation of extractor fans in bathrooms often just replace the windows outright, or sit a distance away from the window, using a custom mount.
I imagine the dangling live block connector was under the sink for easy removal of inquisitive children.
Criminal!
Maybe they originally intended to put a light in the cupboard. You can't just leave a dangling live cable under the sink. Thats stupid.
@@simontay4851 not useful when the light is on as blue there is switched live from downlights!!
More likely for a mirror light, but there's no mirror.
I first read that as removal BY inquisitive children. But no doubt it would achieve removal OF said children shortly thereafter.
Probably for a mirror light, the switch live is to have the light turn on with the main bathroom lights, and the permanent live to have a socket on the mirror. The ground is probably a neutral, they saved on cable and did not put a three core in there, and would have used the ground conductor for the neutral and of course no ground (but providing that the mirror is double insulated no problem, except for the socket but I see that in the UK you use an isolation transformers for socket in the bathroom so even there no problem)
Shitty job of course.
Lack of certificates and general crappiness suggests that possibly the installation was done by a previous occupant (or the landlord). Somebody who learned about electrics from the first edition of Dunning & Kruger.
I don't have any formal certificates and even i could and would do a better job than this.
@@simontay4851 exactly my thoughts! I think my 14yo son could do better quite frankly and he doesn't even play with electronics.
Wasn't it a new house?
@@simontay4851 same lol
Still have all my old college books from when I did 2360 PT 1,2
The 35 year old plug is the least of the problems... Its got a ferroli boiler. 😔
Is that a cheap and cheerful make?
Great advert for that infamous firm 'Bodge It and Scarper'.... As a retired maintenance engineer and Landlord, makes me get mad at the shortcuts like this, just having had a 10yr retest on 1 of my properties. As suggested a new series?
If somebody that’s learning the English language ever needed to understand what’s meant by a ‘polished turd’
This is not a DIYer. This is a rogue trader in my view (guess).
Someone who doesn’t give a shit and wants to get it done ASAP.
Makes my blood boil. The money this joker “saved” is less than a pint in London.
Thanks, John, the LED lights in the bathroom, were they rated (IP45) for the bathroom because one was really right over the shower?
No, they were just standard open front GU10 fittings.
At 4:12 you can see exposed ground wire and it looks it is mechanically damaged somehow. It is very common for poor installations to not care about details like this.
John. What made you look under the bathroom basin? I do EICRs, mainly commercial and industrial, few domestic. I look inside kitchen cupboards where I think there might be sockets next to appliances but don't generally look where I don't expect to find electrical accessories.
Having seen all kinds of ridiculous things over the years, I now usually look in every cupboard and anywhere else that's accessible.
Some IR hobs can be configured as either 1 or 2 phase to presumably reduce current demand.
So check the cable size required, 2.5 flex won't be close to capacity!
No extractor fan in the bathroom in this case complies with the Building Regulations as there is an opening light in the window, just in case you have forgotten. Keep up the good work.
This supports JW from the web :
Any new kitchen, bathroom (or shower room), utility room or toilet should be provided with a means of extract ventilation to reduce condensation and remove smells.
For toilets only, ‘purge ventilation’ (an opening window/door on an external wall) meeting the requirements specified in Appendix 2 of ‘Approved Document F - Ventilation’ can instead be used to provide ventilation if security is not an issue.
The flexes are usually factory fitted on that Lamona stuff although the equivalent Beko units don't have anything fitted. I went to a flat that was so say refurbished last year and the bodging shits had used a piece of old black Pirelli rubber cable to connect up the brand new oven
Thank Goodness I have not had to rent a house in decades . Both here in the States and back in England I lived in fear of the landlord installed mistakes.
The worst I saw was in North Dakota where I found wiring from the turn of the nineteens running into Romex from the seventies . Hahha , I was always expecting a fire.
I can't help but notice a corrolation between the quality of work and the location of said work. If its inconvinient or challenging to install, rectify or modify to the correct standards, its far more likely to be left or bodged. Im think speciffically about the oven and hob isolator here - now the kitchen is in, it will be a right pain for someone to fit an isolator above the hobs and backsplash/counter edging.
Jonathan Cook not really it’s a dry lined wall so a cable can be dropped down behind, and there is still access behind the cooker and hob.
@@andrewschannel3635 are you the property owner or is that an asumption? I always assume the worst, the worst being that it is concrete or brick.
@@andrewschannel3635 JW said it in the inspection video above. According to another comment, people routinely pay JW to inspect installations before buying a new home, then use JW's reports to factor into purchase decisions and price negotiations.
Absolutely scary, I'm lucky to have a decent landlord and agency but I've seen what some of the cowboys get up to. We need more of you JW!
I love it when Mr Ward does these kind of videos 😂 Despite the heavy criticism of the appalling installation, the educational value for me is invaluable.
Why did they mount the disconnect box for the oven hanging? The installers could have used mounting screws to attach it to the wall.
One other thing, JW, where does the Neutral out of the main switch connect to?
I was always trained that the Neutral conductor must be under a double screw termination after it comes out of the isolator, on to the Neutral busbar.
It looks like there is a screw missing where this should be happening, however splitting strands from a conductor to do this would be very poor practice.
The Earth conductor (CPC) looks the same.
On that one, the top of the main switch has prongs at the back which plug into connections behind, those are permanently connected to the neutral bar, and the same for the line bar which runs behind the circuit breakers.
Incoming at the bottom, with a single screw for each.
On most others it's in at the top, with an insulated wire from the bottom of the switch to a neutral bar at the top, and the line busbar across the bottom. Most have single screws, a few isolators do have 2 for the incoming terminals.
This sort of crap and having to explain to a customer why they need to spend money on a 'working' but unsafe installation and getting grief over why they have to pay me to fix what is working ..for now...some times it was like getting blood out of a stone ..even when you tell them the installation could kill them... .is why I went over to be an Industrial spark mostly working on production machines ...big companies are so scared an employee claiming from them ...they just want it safe....I have seen some crap at small companies but I steer clear of those now.
you're a good conscientious fella JW.
BTW, running the cooker hood so that it exhausts into the room is acceptable (in fact preferable) so long as there is sufficient ventilation elsewhere in the room. There is usually a metal or fabric grease filter, and a carbon odour filter within the hood (this is only installed for the recirc option).
This is how I installed mine because there is continuously running ventilation (mvhr) already.
Tim Small Preferable? How is recirculating hot steamy, greasy air preferable to sending it outside? I realise there are times when this is not possible, but to say recirculating is preferable is a stretch!
@@spencerwilton5831 If you have mvhr or other continuously running ventilation it's preferable to have recirculating cooker hoods.
Hardly anyone cleans a hood filter or changes them . Best also get all that steam out of the property like in a shower room. Condensation ain't no good
Thanks for sharing John! People who think this sort of work is acceptable should be named and shamed and have any quals or certs revoked.
I have a photo collection of disaster wiring and burnt connections I've come accross on domestic jobs. I admire your self control in commentary and it makes me laugh out loud thinking what you could be saying. I'll be watching more of your videos to enjoy the reminiscences as much as the opportunity to learn new stuff.
How many pages did you need to write the report on that place?!
Thought it was my best work, didnt cost anything.
The thing i hate most about electrical work is people assume because it works its a job well done
Even the kitchen itself is poor
That oven by an adjacent unit. At least the roasting tray cannot slip to the left as it has a kitchen unit guard rail.
Get that boiler checked out that looks they’ve used push fit copper on the gas supply to the boiler which isn’t allowed
As a gas safe engineer myself it doesn’t look good
Apparently they are crimped on fittings and are suitable for gas as they have a yellow mark on them.
It’s crimp fitting, the water is done the same. Perfectly fine, although shockingly done
@@sizey2003 The bloke's fitting Modenas. Enough said.
They're not push fit OR crimped. They're press fit.
As a gas safe engineer surly you would know that that’s press fit
Absolutely shocking John, I bet the owners are glad you are on the case. Thanks for sharing.
Hey John, was that a 1000 volt "wind up" merger on your shelf ? I've often used one of those some 50 years + ago, Steel Works .
Yes, but it's virtually brand new - it's a plastic case Chinese copy of an old one.
John Ward Thanks for the info Mr Ward, the old one was aluminium ( as no doubt you know)
2:26 This is going to sound like a stupid question but are those screws that hold the wire above and below, live?
Above is neutral (left) so with the black (old colour) and blue wires. It's one block you can easily touch but will do no harm if wired correctly. Above right is Earth, also one block, yellow-green, can be touched.
Below is live, every group has one screw, red is old and brown is modern colour. The screw is inside the switch unit. Yes you can see it but it's not simple to touch it with your finger (unless baby fingers).
how come the socket. fusebox, meter looked the same in my country and it's not uk
That choc block under the bathroom sink is horrendous! Anyone holding the tap and rummaging around in the cupboard underneath could be killed. Consumer unit looks like my old one, in which case the 6 amp light circuits are not on the RCD
Seriously scary. Thanks for this! More please! Perhaps a demo of how it should be done? As my house will be up for rewiring later this year, I need to know what to look for. Incidentally, after a flood, the insurance company "professionals" wired the dining room light wrong & it tripped every time it was switched on. The certificate was worth exactly £0.
Great video. As so often the evils are buried or hidden in cupboards or behind ovens or boiler covers - anyone taking a cursory glance around the kitchen would think it looks fine. Should the light above the shower be 12V low voltage?
Shoddy work seems to be the new norm, I see this a LOT!, the majority are wired by “qualified electricians” sadly I can’t / won’t compete on price, and the tide towards sub standard work so currently I’m looking a new career to earn my living.
Do I have time to grumble on about EICR’s, Grrrr 😖
Excellent video John
Hey John, what do you recommend people do with old electrical fittings and plugs? What if they're still in a fair condition?
Our fuse box was in already in 1976. It's still there. My view, leave well alone.
When I added an earth to the metal living room lights, those 5A fuses withstand blowing holes in the bulb caps. Could be 100A for a ms for all I know to make the bulb cap look like it's got woodworm.
Here in Germany it is quite easy:
1. Are they in a good condition and not damaged?
2. Do they still meet the requirements and regulations when the electrical installation or the appliance was built?
If you have such old stuff it is ok to use it if it's still in a safe and good condition. But you should not remove the plug of an old appliance and put it on a new one in case of the BS1363 plug with the unsleeved pins. The thing is, if you fit a plug to a new appliance, this plug must meet the requirements of today. And unsleeved pins on the plug are not meeting todays standards. Here it's not that big problem, because our Schuko plug didn't change since the 1930s, except that you now also get such molded plugs as you get them for the BS1363. But I would also not fit such an old plug to a new appliance, because if I would perform a PAT test, the earth connection would propably fail due to minimal corrosion on the contacts. The earth continuity should be less than 0.3 Ohms (with max. 5m of cable between plug and appliance).
The problem in this video was, they used old materials and these were propably sold to the customers as new...
@@Marcel_Germann Prob. earth continuity with 100A 240V would be less than .3 Ohms !
@@millomweb Unlikely for a plug that is rated 250V/16A.
An electrician should never reuse old fittings.
At 4:05 what is the issue with putting both CPC's into the same sleeve?
Twisting them together, which weakens the copper and in this particular case resulted in the ends of one breaking off so only one was actually secured in the terminal. Also make subsequent fault finding and testing more difficult as the wires have to untwisted which further increases the risk of them breaking off.
Thanks John makes sense.
What's wrong with having both earths in the same sleeve?
In the same sleeve isn't a particular problem, but these ones are completely twisted together as well, which work hardens the copper making it brittle, and makes subsequent alterations or testing far more difficult.
@@jwflame if a fault on one side it makes a pain in the butt to separate the 2 earths, and it stresses the wires, leaves some exposed, etc. Just bone idle bad work!
It make it difficult to perform a proper "tug" test to make sure both wires are properly secured. If they are just together in a sleeve and one is not secured, it might still pass a test as the copper is in contact, but it's not a reliable contact.
Put them in separate sleeves and it's much easier to perform those necessary mechanical tests.
Kitchen extractor fans can operate in two modes recirculate or outside vent, quite often in flats they are installed to recirculate as no outside wall is available. You change the filter to a carbon / charcoal filter.
That is true, but this one is fixed to an outside wall, and there is a loft space directly above where ducting could easily be installed to the outside.
I have to say that MK sockets from the 1960's are of a far better construction standard than modern ones.
I've come across many a electrician who hasn't the first idea how to wire a boiler and controls and most who say they can make a dogs dinner of it! and electricians always think they're the cream of the trades, i don't think so.
That bathroom cabinet with no RCD behind it was an actual death trap!
As an American I am appalled that a referb would not have had RCDs installed. But that live cable under the sink, that's criminal.
@@jovetj The UK standard for safety - Since July 2008 virtually all circuits in new or rewired homes have been required to include an RCD under the latest edition of BS 7671.
@@DazzaDirect Do you ever have problems with surge protectors or motors running on RCDs?
Thumbs up from me for recycling the plugs and out-of-sight sockets. Non sleeved plugs re-used in a place they'll never get touched. Sockets with paint splashes inside cupboards, no problem. So long as the client is aware of what he's done (and may have sanctioned it, of course!). If he's paid for all new, then it's fraud. Wonder if the dangling stat receiver was an oversight, just tacked in for the plumber to test the system while the spark was on another job, and forgot to come back to do properly.
You are funnier than John 😀 these cowboys had saving the planet in mind complete with washing machine label for the boiler. That flex should have gone to a 3amp fused spur anyway. The plug probably had a 13amp fuse in it ! And that extractor socket was hardly hidden
That's a "My nephew can do that for you dirt cheap" job, isn't it.
That's why I went to college to do my city and guilds in electrical installation so you learn properly
I know a better guy from down the pub n he'll work for £4 an hour..
Someones random nephew would do a better job.
This is Shocking, literally!
Can someone explain the last part with the cable in bathroom. Not an electrician so don't understand what the issue was. I understand the cable being poorly fitting under sink and not plugged into anything. But when lights are on and the cable seems to stop working what does this all mean?
There was no neutral present so anything wired in to that point would not have actually worked.
Probably for one of those fancy electric mirrors but they ran out of money.
@@uK8cvPAq Oh I get that but I didn't understand the fault. When the lights came on he said it stopped working. Explained why but not being an electrician I didn't understand the fault.
The basic issue is that there is no neutral. If you wanted to connect a light or other appliance to the end of the cable, you would need to connect it between line and neutral. The line could be switched or permanent, depending on whether or not you wanted it to be controlled by the main light switch for the room. But, in either case, you need a neutral, otherwise you haven't got a proper circuit for your light/appliance.
JW's measurements showed that the brown wire was line, as you would expect it to be. However, with the lights off, we saw only 230 volts between the brown and the blue, showing that the blue was _not_ neutral. If it was neutral, then we'd have seen the full 245 volts, the same as were measured between line and CPC. This showed that there was either no neutral, or a faulty neutral.
With the lights turned on, the voltage between the brown and the blue wires was basically zero, but the voltage between either one of them and the CPC was 245 volts, indicating that they were now both live at 245 volts. This showed that the blue was actually a switched line that hadn't been properly marked up to show that it was a switched line.
Knowing that the blue was a switched line explained why the blue _almost_ looked like a neutral when the lights were off. It was connected to neutral indirectly, _through_ the lamps in the ceiling. That is, to get from the blue wire to the real neutral, you could travel along the wire, find yourself at a light fitting in the ceiling, then go through the LED lamp in the fitting to get to neutral. This would never work as a neutral. As soon as you put a load across it, the voltage on our supposed "neutral" would rise due to the series load of the ceiling lights, creating a potential divider and leading to undesired results.
It's possible that the CPC has been abused as a neutral, in which case it could be made to "work", but that is an unacceptable arrangement and they should have installed a 3 core and earth cable instead. Or, if only permanent or switched line is required, then the other end of the cable can be re-connected to provide just one or the other.
@@patrickwigmore3462 Ah right. The he reacted I thought it meant it was either a fire risk or a shock risk
All very poor. I had to laugh at the cooker hood though. Extracting from the kitchen into...the kitchen!
I did wonder if it was a recirculating one. But the plate should have been left on.
Scarey work indeed. JW, are you called in for an inspection or to make this mess right? Do you need to report these issues or concerns to the authorities? Not sure how it works in the UK.
Nice questions - look forward to your response, JW.
Iv,e got 2 daughters who have brought new houses from different companies and in both the cooker switch is right beside the cooker and it has a certificate
6:28 the same thing was done with our oven and hob neither were screed in though the connections were done right i think....
The job isn't so bad. But think of the oven falling on a toddler who pulls at it and you know why the screws are not optional.
@@RobertSzasz agreed on that its also annoying when opening the oven pulls it out a small amount
17:46 - not even the screws are matching colours !
Connection for a second bathroom light switch.
Can you tell us the name of the cowboy who did this fairground wiring?
No idea who it was - no certificates or documentation available.
Hi John, thanks for another great video. I have to go and figure out why a 1000A breaker keeps tripping on Monday. Probably earth leak. Definitely not pulling over 1000A. The place is full of welders and machines. The hunt will begin.
Hi John, What is wrong with white downlights. You said it's an odd choice. There must be a lot of odd people because I've fitted many hundreds of white downlights in kitchens. Apart from that keep up the good work.
They are good if you have messy painters
I always wanted a random live wire under my sink for those boring mornings :)
You’d never have another boring morning, or any other morning for that matter!
Will you be making a follow up JW,? Would be good when critiquing such as socket positions, as well as lining up level wise with others, what the current regs are. A before and after (and during) video is always preferred by the viewer.
I'm liking this style of on the job video JW :)
Some pictures of the repairs already on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. Links in the video description.
@@jwflame Impressed with the work in the kitchen, will there be a follow up video, I'd love to see how that isolator for the oven was dealt with.
Wow!
I’ve come across all kinds of open live wires upon house purchases including live ends of cooker cables, mainly discovered deep inside under worktop cupboards or on top of wall cupboards.
Anyone purchasing a property should use John’s findings as a stark warning to take care to get the electrics tested including full visual checks ideally after the previous owner has fully moved out and before the new owner move in.
Does the shared CPC sleeve fail any standard if the CPC is covered? Surely it can be argued that an unbroken (folded) CPC would be preferable, as breaking it to install separate sleeves makes the CPC continuity dependent on the correct tightening of the CPC screw in the socket? The rest of it is a horror story, thanks for sharing and its nice to see you back in 2020.
It's not necessarily a problem just having them in the same sleeve. The real problem here is that they are twisted together which makes subsequent alterations/testing far more difficult, and also makes it more likely for the copper wires to break.
These are not one unbroken piece - it's two separate conductors twisted together..
Nothing wrong with an unsleeved plug if used correctly. I still have and use one myself. It has brass and not what looks like chrome plated steel pins we have now.
Joe public is required to use it after coming in from the pub or having the wife standing over them to get it working. 1984 the rules changed. They must have went down the British Museum to get their stock
Those wires and plugs! You would be heartbroken to spend all that cash on a new kitchen and bathroom for some cowboy to but it all at risk with shoddy work.
I did a better job in my shed
you did a better job with your eyes closed
@@alunroberts1439 lol yeah
I did a better job in my shed when I was 14. In 2005.
Still works 15 years later.
Great Video John, love your style and great explanations!!
I'd say that at least 70% of houses have 'similar standard' of installations. Most of the cheap electrical contractors do such shitty jobs on the quick. And people who are short on money, and dont have engineer degree to recognize bad work are just happy that 'it works' and looks 'okay' on the outside. Also industrial installations arent much better. I've seen so many copper cables with aluminum terminals of smaller size, that were drilled to fit the bigger cable... and thats not so good at 400A circuits.
My flat was like that when I bought it, it's still like that now since I can't get it rewired professionally while I'm living in it. You're not allowed to live/sleep in a room without a fireproof ceiling so you can't gut it and live in it at the same time.
Andy Alder So you would rather wait for it to burn down than have it rewired and "risk" spending a couple of nights under a non fireproof ceiling? Or perhaps you haven't heard of a hotel? People live in building sites all the time. A few days of discomfort are a small price to pay.
Nobody is going to worry about that for a week or two. It's not as if the police are going to come around and perform spot checks and it's not obviously a criminal offence as such. It would only become a matter for criminal law if you were killed in a fire. People live in houses being refurbished all the time.
So, no above-worktop isolator for the dishwasher? I don't know if that is a regulatory requirement or not, but it's surely a good idea to be able to isolate an appliance without having to touch it or turn off the entire circuit.
Also, I notice that the upstand runs across the lower part of the window, which is a curious design choice.
nb. there isn't a regulatory requirement for an extractor in a bathroom if it has an opening window (although it's still advisable).
Isolator above the worktop is not required. Some people like to have them, although such things are rarely used. Isolation can be unplugging the appliance, with the socket in an accessible place such as the adjacent cupboard.
The window thing will be entirely due to cost - much cheaper to just shove the kitchen in front of it rather than have the window changed for a different size.
What's the issue with two cpcs sharing sleeving - I've seen it picked up elsewhere so I asked my assessor about it and he had no issues...
There should be no exposed copper. So it’s far easier if they are sleeved separately. It’s not like sleeving is expensive...
84bazzy84 if your splitting a ring to fault find then you would definitely want separate cpc’s it’s just good practice
Thanks for the replies but your not really saying much other than I like it that way . I generally share sleeving at accessories when cables are coming in the same entry hole and often this makes it tidier. Ok there may be a few mm more cpc exposed... next to and entire earthed metal back box this doesn't trouble me, As far as fault testing and even testing in general it's not hard to whip the sleeving off and I don't test with live voltage - do you? If I'm doing ring continuity and r1+r2 on somebody else's messy CU then doing it at a socket is definitely an option for me.
Maybe it puts additional strain on the conductors when they bunch up as the fitting is secured into place.
If I was putting a ring in, only one sleeve would be used as I wouldn't cut the CPC to get 2 on. I wouldn't cut any conductors in the ring so the ring would never be broken by a screw coming loose.
Frequently come across shite work standards like this in the 80's an 90's when I had my own electrical business, NIC approved. It boiled my blood as did the standards in this video. As always, the builder don't give a rats arse about electrical standards we have or had to abide by because that's going to be expensive, so builder gets his chippy mate (other trades are available) in who does a bit of lecky bashing on the side, no questions asked. And when I came across this stuff in my day and highlighted it, being NIC approved back then, I would be accused of trying to make a quick buck and being picky. Kitchen fitters and bathroom fitters should have been lined up against a wall and shot or dunked in acid.
I even worked alongside a kitchen fitter in a new house who had "IEE approved" written on his van sign writing ffs. All I was asked to do was leave him a set of 2.5mm ring tails in the new kitchen area. You think your kitchen is bad JW. You ain't seen nuthin yet.
I once went behind a "prestige" (apparently had a central London office address and advertised in Country Life, so they MUST be good) kitchen firm who put in a new cooker hood cabinet as part of a new kitchen, when the customer mentioned that her extractor hood wasn't working while I was there, I looked underneath and found a 4" Senate brand bathroom fan screwed to the underside of the hood all melted and twisted out of shape. The cheap plastic flexi duct was bodged up into the ceiling just blowing into the floor void. No isolator, I traced a piece of 1.5mm flex botched directly into the back of one of their cheap twin socket outlets. Fear not, the flex was new.
It's lack of education on the customers account I believe. Until they get wiser this sort of shite will keep turning up, it has been like it for years and I doubt until someone gets a prison sentence and big publicity, it will continue. Plus it's probably better in their opinion to go cheap at the time.
Im well out of the game now and to be perfectly honest I don't miss it anymore. I do my own wiring at home on my extensions because I know it is done correctly, stuff getting in some cowboy with a NIC sticker on his tee shirt, and stuff local authority rules. Your video just proves what a load of old b#ll#cks it all is. Completely un- enforceable. If it was then why wasn't the local authority pulled in to this property to investigate, find the guilty party and prosecute. I rest my case.
Anyway JW keep up the good work, I'm in a bad mood now so a cold beer should calm me down, cheers. 🍺
PS - sorry about the rant.
Agree 100%. I may be wrong, but I always feel that a lot of this crappy work is driven by "house flippers" or "property developers" - I've seen so many houses "flipped" within 8-12 months, usually older peoples homes who have died or passed away and these idiots come in, buy it and fling up stuff that makes it look "refurbished" but in actual fact they've only spent a tiny amount of money on the house and have not actually attended to the real issues. I also know for a fact that many people will lean heavily on the surveyor to increase the home report valuation.
One of the lower points was seeing a known asbestos artex ceiling being skimmed over and when I asked are you going to tag it for the future owners etc I was more or less told to get lost.
Guy ended up selling that house for about 45k more than he paid for it too!
I completely agree Tony. People in stetsons buy these places and throw some emulsion at it then rent the place out at premium rate. If the renter sees dodgy work they don’t say anything because finding another place would be out of the question as there are not enough dwellings around. And there is no chance a cowboy is going to fix the faults. Frightening when you think of adults or children sticking their wet hands in a cupboard to get a towel out. Too many cowboys out there and the councils do not monitor even though they are paid to inspect it’s just a glimpse and a back hander job.
Good vid JW as always
Totally agree tony N was a reg sparks myself am retired now i dont miss the crap that needed sorting
I can send you a few links of good book publishers if you want?
On Wednesday (it's now Saturday) I watched another koala video - mentioned the Australian Koala Foundation - for preserving the little critters. Looked at the website and saw 'sponsor a koala for ???AUD'.
And I'm thinking would it not be better to sell eucalyptus trees and encourage everyone to have a couple at least in their garden and then get a koala or 2 in ?
I've not calmed down from Weds enough to finish the e-mail suggesting it !
That was truly shocking. In fact, looking at what you showed me, it is ALL far superior quality as to what cowboys contactors got their boys to carry out in _my_ house. I have had the whole house (supposedly) rewired. Where they could not move the fridge, they left the old socket and wiring behind it. They then just fitted a few new faceplates, cracked 2, and just left them. Upstairs (the house still has 90% horsehair Lath and plaster walls), the plaster collapsed when trying to fit a new double socket, so as they could not use the old straps of wood (they cut the wood out at the same time, the stupid f***s), they silicone sealed the box to the wall. They also silicone sealed the smoke alarms and CO2 detector to the ceiling, as they gave up pushing holes in the with a screwdriver to find wood. Pulling plugs out over time has resulted in the silicone sealed socket boxes coming away from the wall.
The same deal as you have found, but with ALL my kitchen above counter sockets: they are all over the place. Some completely hard to the counter (this was the original location for the old sockets before a new, higher kitchen was fitted), but did they relocate the sockets higher? Nope. Then some sockets are on a wall with no shelf, and no unit below. Just a double socket 5 ft up in the middle of a wall (again, it was because there _used_ to be a single cabinet there).
They fitted an Expel-air to the bathroom ceiling, and that was it - just the unit. I went into the loft and there is no ducting at all - just the Expel-air hole in the bathroom ceiling, and the loft insulation over the top. They battered holes up and down the walls to try and chase wires, and never replastered over the fist sized holes. It just shows a person that does not see what goes on, how shoddy work can be carried out. It all looks nice on the outside, and most people will go ''ooh, and aah'' at the shiny new fittings. But, when people like your good self come along and expose this shite ''workmanship'', it opens a few eyes and begs the question: ''what the hell is _my_ house like?''. Keep on keeping on. Regards. Dawg.
... shocking. 🤣🤣🤣
@@johnriggs4929 - _More_ shocking though, is the amount of waffle and overly long comment. 🥱😴I'm surpised you got through it all! Well done that man! All the best. Dogue
Could someone more knowledgable than me please explain why at the end of the video John gets 230v between permanent live and the (off) switched live?
Switched live is linked to the neutral through the lights.
@@jwflame Thankyou, understood.
Great video John. Love your descriptions on everything 😂 its good you found that death trap 👍 people who installed that clearly had zero electrical skills
should the sink pipes be earthed? I did not see any earths there
At 19:10 you got 230 volts from the live to the switch live. How is that. What is the theory that gives that value ?
The light switch connects live to lamp when on, nothing to nothing when off. The cowboy that left behind an insecurely terminated flex also connected it wrong, using blue (a legally reserved color) for the light and brown for the always-on live. When he measured with the light off, he was essentially trying to power the lights through the voltmeter, thus getting less than the full mains power. Proper wiring will use brown for live, blue for neutral, yellow/green or bare for earth and any other color for the switched lights.
Anyone rifling around in that cabinet would get a nasty surprise to say the least.