One Villainous Scene - Demona is Alone | Melina Pendulum
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- Of all the female villains in Western media, the one who stands out to me is Demona from the Disney series Gargoyles. Tragic, vengeful, and powerful her rage has stuck with me since childhood.
See the rest of ONE VILLAINOUS SCENE here: • One Villainous Scene
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Demona is a fantastic example of how a villain can be achingly sympathetic and completely irredeemable at the same time. Her motivations make 100% sense but she's doomed, tragedy-style, by her own methods and overwhelming rage to the cycle of destruction. -R
"Being oppressed doesn't teach you how to be a good person, it teaches you how to be an oppressor."
That one is going into my saved quotes document
Oh boy does that count for Catra (Shera) and Claudia (TDP)
@@falconeshield I used to think Catra was a modern Demona. Since the rest of the series proved me wrong, now I think Simon from Infinity Train is the modern Demona.
@flowerheit451 This quote comes from Paulo Freire Pedagogy of the Oppressed
Israel?
That explains magneto.
Demona was a top tier antagonist . She was condemned by her own inability to learn from / reconcile her mistakes and it cost her everything.
I think because of that trait, Demona and Xanatos do a great job of providing poles for the show. Xanatos has essentially no sympathetic motivations at the beginning. He's a powerful man who wants more power and wants to live forever to enjoy it. What Xanatos has that humanizes him (importantly, not redeems him, but humanizes) is an ability to learn from his defeats and mistakes, including ultimately learning to value trust and love for their own sakes rather than as means to another end. It's possible to imagine Xanatos eventually growing out of his fundamental flaw of condescending pride, even if we know it's unlikely (and would be way less fun to watch).
If Xanatos's ability to move forward humanizes him, it's our knowledge of Demona's past that humanizes her. We can imagine her being (we are shown her being) rewound to a time before she turned her pain into an omnidirectional wrath, and see her as a loving person devoted to her clan and her way of life. (And I think anything else I said here would just recapitulate Melina's great video essay.)
What really fascinates me here is that both of these characters are shown as people who learn, and how that relates them to each other and the other characters. Xanatos starts out with a lot of knowledge and wits, and he gains wisdom over time. Demona starts out as someone... well, I can't call her wise given some of her early choices, but someone who's capable and and connected to her environment; and over time she gains immense knowledge and cunning. But where does that leave Goliath?
Why is it that the heroes are so often the people who reject changing the world? Is it because we see change as painful? Is that why so many of us are fascinated with anti-heroes and villains -- because they can and do change the status quo, sometimes even for the better?
@@noneuklid Goliath doesn't reject changing the world; he rejects easy "solutions" that won't actually change the world - that's one of the biggest differences: Demona wants to find one single fix that will make the world how it should be; Goliath is willing to take small steps and trust that even if there's no sign of the world changing, the little, imperceptible shifts will add up eventually.
And we do see that Goliath's approach works - he doesn't ever convert the general public as a whole, but he does chip away, one person at a time - most significantly, his willingness to risk being fooled yet again by Xanatos is one of the major factors in Xanatos becoming, not necesarily a good guy, but a better one.
@@rmsgrey I can respect Goliath's self-imposed limits as a response to his own great power, but I can't agree that it works. We don't see the people he does reach going on to change others very often, and in this universe the default reaction of humans to gargoyles is one of terror and often hatred. His method led to the Gargoyles still being so hated and feared by a tiny castle population that they were willing to scapegoat him in an instant. And that's in a time where he understood people pretty well. In the modern world, the population and world changes faster than he can keep up with (something he acknowledges).
I agree with Demona that incrementalism was never going to work. It turns out that mass murder, attempted genocide, and/or global domination are also non-winning strategies, but I feel like there might be some alternatives to those.
@@noneuklid Yes, most of the people of Castle Wyvern feared the Gargoyles, but it was Demona's response to that which led to most of the Clan's destruction. Meanwhile, Goliath's methods inspired the survivors of Castle Wyvern to spend the rest of their lives guarding and raising the Clan's eggs as equals.
And all this was against a much broader background of rising anti-Gargoyle sentiment - Goliath and his friends were some of the few to survive the end of that era. Admittedly, so was Demona, but everyone else around her met untimely ends.
Meanwhile, within the show, we see anti-Gargoyle hysteria deflated when Lexington embraces Goliath's methods, and the politician attempting to use the situation to build his power base is exposed as having committed the crime he blamed the Gargoyles for. Of course, this also suggests that the show isn't a perfect reflection of reality - the idea that people would stop supporting a politician just because they're exposed as lying about key parts of their campaign seems a bit optimistic nowadays.
David Xanatos is the embodiment of white privledge. His one goal is his own personal immortality. He literally goes back in time and creates a self-fulfilling path to wealth for himself to inherit. Xanatos also literally buys the gargoyles' land out from under them and drives out the "indiginous" gargoyles through threats and intimidation when they won't become his soldiers or pets.
The trope named after him (the "Xanatos Gambit") is all about setting up a zero-sum situation where ANYONE'S loss (even his own) still benefits him in some way.
His casual mention to Fox about them being "genetically compatible" in their date at the castle is indicative of a belief in his own genetic superiority despite all of his wealth and success coming from literal magic.
What I find most intersting is that. ONLY once the existence of the Gargoyles becomes inescapable PUBLIC knowledge, does Xanatos choose to end his side of the feud with Goliath and allow the Gargoyles to live at the castle again.
Not sure how to sum all that up. But it's something, anyway.
I loved Demona. She is her own worst enemy and yet, I wanted her to succeed in some way.
You’re right Katherine, Demona was her own worst enemy. Even though she did a lot of questionable things you kind of understood why she did them. I still fill bad for her when Thailog turned against her and created Delilah. Even as a young teenager watching those scenes I felt that hurt and betrayal through the screen.
I agree, I really wanted her to be happy.
@@brandijoy1 Ironically, Demona was NOT her own worst enemy. Rather, it was her Hybridized Clone Delihlah who was made to be a mate for the Evil Clone of Goliath named Thaylog. Thaylog and the clone clan were THEMSELVES also a product of Demona's attempts to replace her family! She just couldn't catch a break. xD
And that’s way too true. She kept digging a bigger hole with constant rage and denial. The Weird Sister basically called her out for all of her actions. And to add more to her punishment, the spirit Puck cast an ironic spell on her that will turn her human in the day (he asked her if she wanted a wish from him and she blew off).
@@brandijoy1 oooff. She deserved better. All I was thinking when I saw that scene, “Not cool, bro. Not cool.”
My biggest complaint about the way so many villains are characterized is how frequently they pointlessly cross moral lines, as though they aren't intelligent enough to prioritize targets. Massacring random people accomplishes nothing; even the aspect of cathartic release pales in comparison to that which could be obtained by targeting those discrete individuals with real power & influence. It's particularly galling since it feels like the villains only behave that way so the writers can make a flimsy moral argument about how "violence is never the answer" after the heroes use violence to answer the villains.
It's easier to topple a capstone than to uproot the foundation.
Well said
Violence is only acceptable when you are protecting others that's the whole point Goliath was trying to make when they took the airship in the first set of episode they never attack first even with xanatos they never tried to fight him unprovoked only defend themselves when he attacked it's why both had a underlined respect to each other
A slight of hand in writing to avoid going deeper into the true problems of society.
Note: Just wanted to add one small comment. I did say in the video that there were no people of color that I saw in the writer's room, but it is important to note that the creator of the show was a Jewish man. There are cultural elements that are absolutely worth exploring there, but I did not feel qualified enough to tackle it in this video and with the deadline it had. I didn't want to add it flippantly so I didn't touch on it at all. However, I just wanted to make sure I added this out since one follower pointed that out and it is important to recognize that. xx P
I only saw gargoyles like once as a kid granted I was born in '96 so thank you for showing me this hidden gem, Also this is why I don't think I have the guts to be a RUclipsr - the deadlines would break me lol
One of the things that really stood out to me when I re-watched Gargoyles as an adult was how almost every significant human character was a person of color or from a marginalized community. You obviously have Eliza, her mother, father, and brother who all appear in multiple episodes. Matt Bluestone, Eliza's partner, is described as Jewish-American by the writers. Xanatos is Eastern European and his adoption of a western identity is a source of conflict between him and his father, I could go on. Despite my listing their cultural identities out this way, Gargoyles doesn't present it's characters as "token person XYZ", but instead tries to fold their identities into a three dimensional character. This from a time period when all white casts where not uncommon. Not that the show didn't have it's problems. 25+ years later and I'm still sad that Disney wouldn't let Lexington be gay, or even let Eliza's boss have a photo of her wife and child.
Stone comes to life
Excellent choice, demona is one of the best villains in fiction
I'm not sure if you know this, but Elisa's duel ethnicity was inspired by the actress who played her. That's always been cool to me.
Gargoyles went way over my head when I first saw it (as did X-Men TAS, but I stuck with that one, thankfully), so rewatching as an adult was basically like watching it for the first time. Your assessment of Demona is spot on. I always found it so fascinating that she'd been living her life for centuries while the other gargoyles were cursed. She accrued all of this knowledge that they didn't. Even if her ideology wasn't understandable, Goliath's morals seem so naive in the face of her actual lived experiences, and it bothered me that the show condemned her as hard as it did.
... You're bothered that the show condemned a genocidal maniac?
Honestly. I need to rewatch it. I bought the first two seasons on dvd
@@qawamity Nope! That's not what bothers me. I said "as hard". She 100% deserves to be condemned for her crimes, but she also deserves a bit more understanding for being the subject of persecution herself. Did you even watch the video?
@@kinokochan I did watch the video. I also watched the series when it first aired. How hard do you think a genocidal maniac deserves to be condemned? Because I think the proper amount is "as much as possible".
@@qawamity Personally, I'd much rather see Demona redeemed than condemned. There's a huge gap between condemning someone and condoning their attitudes and actions.
Demona has unquestionably done terrible things, but attacking her for them just reinforces her intention to keep doing them.
“Being oppressed doesn’t teach you how to be a good person, it teaches you how to be an oppressor” bravo
Yes! So excited to see this. RUclips needs more Gargoyles content.
Demona is such a sympathetic and compelling villain because you really get to understand her history and psychology. Extremely rare in a kids show and even more rare back in the 90s.
All bolstered by a Pitch Perfect vocal performance by Marina Sirtis.
It's also worth mentioning for the magical racism of Gargoyles, it also had an actual human who was black and indigenous which is not something that a lot of the 90s magical racism stories can say. If you are gonna deal with racism through the proxy of magical creatures, it's a lot shittier to do so when all the humans in it are white. And there's even an episode that...attempts to engage with how she deals with being a black and indigenous person in the world. I won't say it does the best job, but it comes across as white people trying rather than white people lampshading.
Still, it really could have blossomed as a show if there was some melanin in the writer's room, and from everything I know about the production team, I assume that it was primarily Disney stopping that from happening.
What episode? I’ll have to go back and watch it with an eagle eye.
@@amayajones68 all of them. The main human character Elisa Maza is black and native.
@@natahliazaring5291 Oh I see what you’re saying. I’m thinking about watching the series again (for the 5th or 6th time), so I’ll be sure to keep that in mind when I watch it.
Just rewatching the clip of her saying the password got me choked up. I always thought it was so frustrating that the other gargoyles got to stand on the moral high ground when they DID NOT go through what she went through. I don't know what the writers intended, but watching this video made me realize that Demona shaped a lot of my views about giving people room to be angry, especially if I couldn't possibly understand what they have endured.
Edit: btw amazing video and thank you so much for your thoughtful and interesting content. :)
This is what I keep saying:
Magneto had good points,
Killmonger had good points...
Having good points isn't the same as being right.
Gargoyles is why I read Dostoevsky. It started a years long love of period Russian literature that I always thanked this show for. I read SO much literature as a result of this show, I was obsessed with it. If the internet had existed, I would have owned the wiki, as i pored over every episode looking for references.
Me too! I got into drama as well I actually got to play Titania in high school.
Demona, Azula and BTAS Harley Quinn are tied for the three greatest female cartoon villains of all time.
Azula ❤❤❤
Poison Ivy
You forgot Callisto from Xena.
@@biggtk Xena had a cartoon
I always thought the thing that made Magneto a truly compelling villain is that he has a point, and (especially as a survivor of a genocide) his actions seem rational from his pov. I mean, the idea of a "villain" where I sympathize with their experiences and see the validity in their arguments is so much more compelling than any chaotic evil joker could ever be (for me).
I don't think Magneto has a point, sure Magneto was put through a terrible situation, but he's still racist and genocidal. I sympathize with him, but he doesn't have a point, he has become the thing he vowed to stop.
@@Dead_Pegasus being fair, he's tried peaceful methods more than once and pretty much every time humanity as gone "hahaha...no, we gonna bomb you". Is Magneto completely right? No. But he does at least somewhat "have a point"
@@dracotias you have a point, but there is no excuse for genocide and more often than not he does resort to violent means.
@@dracotias so because there are evil assholes with bad intentions out there and he's met some of them throughout his life he has a point in advocating for the murder of EVERYONE? Nah, don't think so.
@@Regenmacher175 uhhh well... he kinda does, at least as much as Killmonger in Black Panther. Both fight for "their people" against the rest of the world, only that one saw his people literally slaughtered by the State, and the other saw the State be indifferent to his peoples' suffering
You are not wrong in this video at all. As a kid I really only saw her as a villain but now as an adult I can understand where she came from. To be honest yes the people of Scotland should have been a lot more respectful to the gargoyle clan. Especially with them defending them all the time. Though I hoped her and Goliath being together again would have eased some of that anger, some of that pain. Yes she had every right to be angry but I just wished it hasn't turned her into someone it was just as bad as the people she hated
Over twenty years later "the access code is alone" always gets such a visceral response from me. Such an excellent show.
Her rage comes from a place of pain and grief. What she does with that rage isn't acceptable, but her anger and distrust is understandable.
I hope that of they ever do a reboot, that that is taken into account.
OKAY! I have so many feelings on Demona. I was super little and she scared the shit out of me clawing up that dude's face first episode of Gargoyles I saw, like actually gave me nightmares. But then I got back into the show for real when I was a little older and like, that was my monster crush for an embarrassingly long time. Is good, really good. SO fucking badass. Good video.
as I grow a little older I've become more understanding of villains in film and comics, they always make sense
Same. I won't become like them but I get it. Definitely helps me write my characters.
The nostalgia is too real. I loved Gargoyles so much - it was a top tier show and Demona was such a great character. Thanks for the deep dive. 💗
I am so glad you covered Demona, she is a phenomenal character. I remember pretending to sleep and instead staying up just to watch Gargoyles at midnight. Demona was also my first fictional crush, such an amazing and strong character.
I will never forget how I felt for Demona when I saw her cry at the end of city of stone.
I love Gargoyles, her and Xanatos were amazing villains. Her methods were where she went wrong. Unfortunately, while she learned how to play the Capitalist game, she never learned how to play the long con. Which, tbf, was where Xanatos EXCELLED at.
Also, Goliath/Elisa were my introduction to online fanfic... so... *shrugs* I might be biased.
3:49 “What have I-what have they done to you,” that is such a perfect Demona line, she refuses to take account for her own actions.
Thank you for including my Queen Regina in your introductory shots. And wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment that she can't be expected to just FORGIVE the abuse and stand with her head held high where humans will always constantly attack and reignite the rage she has deep within. She was always alone and could only imagine how hurt she must have felt when she saw her lover see her as the monster humans saw her as.
Demona was the first villain I empathized for because I understood why she hated humans so much. Sure, she brought a lot of it upon herself but that doesn’t mean I wanted her to be killed. I didn’t realize how dark and real Gargoyles was until I rewatched it as an adult. The gun violence episode was a huge deal when it aired.
I absolutely love Demona and agree 100 percent with you! I think she is one of the most compelling “villains” of the modern age. I truly believe that every action she has taken was with the best of intentions for her people. The other Gargoyles didn’t live for a thousand years witnessing the continuous cycle of hated over and over like Demona. Just watching the episode where she takes Brooklyn on a “tour” of humanity shows that her distrust and lack of faith in humanity is justified. She has experienced so much of the evil in humanity that she no longer can see anything else in them. She is such a great character and you made a great video about her!
Demona's biggest problem is she's so focused on how badly humanity treats gargoyles she doesn't notice how badly humanity treats humanity. The characters in the series who eventually rise above hatred and suspicion to embrace a more balanced worldview are the ones who eventually achieve a kind of peace.
I was obsessed with Demona, felt a kinship with her even though she was the villain. I honestly think it helped me fall in love with reading as a kid, especially when I found out the link to Shakespeare. It was a tv show no but I think it was the first ahah meta type connection I made where I understood that there are complex influences and layers to things. I remember being in 8th grade and trying to read Midsomer’s Night Dream, I think I finally read the play my freshman year but I also started reading fantasy books and have loved them ever since. I also tried memorizing the witches parts in Macbeth in my bedroom with a crazy amount of candles.
The thing about Goliath's diplomacy is it really relies on everyone knowing how massive his stone stick is. If his gargoyle girth wasn't such an utter certainty,it wouldn't work.
Speak softly and stay strapped
I love that you chose Demona. She was by far my favorite character from the show. (And also a fantastically amazing show.) You worded everything so perfectly in this video. Thanks for posting this!
"Go downstairs and get some juice"😭😭😭😭
I loved gargoyles as a kid and loved Demona, even her character design was the best of the gargoyles to me personally.
Gargoyles is an amazing show and definitely deserves all the praise. Even season 3 has its moments tho yeah it’s not great overall. You get a sense that they really tried to explore deep topics and diversity during an era that while thought it had ‘solved the problem’ which it hadn’t. Demona and her treatment was defined by that mindset but was a source of questioning that mindset too because of how well written her pain is. She is one of if not the best parts of that show. I think it’s also important to note that we never get an exploration of Goliath’s position and why he was so sure following the ‘traditions’ of his people was the right way to go. Why was he so blindly sure that was what ‘good’ looked like? The trip around the world suggested that wasn’t the case for other kinds of gargoyles, if I remember right. I’d be very interested in exploring how gargoyles and humans came to be such unequal partners in guarding the castle. Why don’t they have names unless humans give them to them? At least until Elisa encourages them to name themselves in the early episodes. The humans definitely got the better end of the deal there and it says ‘colonized’ very clearly to me.
I also find the stories surrounding Talon, Elisa’s brother, and those episodes devoted to Elisa’s experiences and cultural background to be interesting too. Not as amazingly written as Demona but they were a show that did not shy away from exploring some of the complexities their lead for the most part. They were trying at least.
Just hoping that one day we get a revival of the show with a diverse writers room because it could be epic.
I Stan Demona. Great video.
They didn't have names in the old era because that wasn't a part of their cultural norm, they only began adopting them to better facilitate communication with the humans.
Different clans around the world having different practices isn't that odd as humans are the same, so they probably based their interactions with humans based on other factors too like how IIRC the Gargoyles of south/central America had items that allowed them to remain flesh during the day and considering their designs, it is implied that ancient Mayan pantheons were likely based on the ancestors of their clan.
I wouldn't really consider it that "unequal" since while humans are relatively weak, they are about the same strength all the time while Gargoyles are strong at night but completely helpless during the day, so while Goliath could swat away a dozen strong warriors at night, any ordinary soldier with a mace or hammer could kill him during the day. Symbiotic relationships exist in the animal kingdom of different species that help each other with tasks the other may not be able to do, for Gargoyles, an ally that can defend them until nightfall is invaluable.
@@camil3545 the way they were treated was definitely unequal. The deference that the gargoyles had with the castle humans and the often contempt and fear they got in return was definitely unequal. When awake, they stay in places like the stable and there are rooms in the castle they are not allowed to enter. These aspects are not ‘cultural differences’ because we don’t experience much of the gargoyles culture separate from humans. Honestly, the treatment of the gargoyles and the treatment of the house elves in Harry Potter are not too dissimilar. And we would not call them equal or symbiotic. And they were only in danger of being smashed because of human wars and prejudice. Who else is doing the smashing?
@@amberhancock2039 Taking names was a cultural difference, when asked by Tom (the small human boy who ends up dedicating his life to protecting the Gargoyle eggs) why they didn't have names the young trio explained that the concept was foreign to them, even Demona never bothered with a name until she was given one.
And their treatment wasn't that bad when you look at the time period when Prince Malcom was still the lord of the castle, when the Archmage wanted to blame Demona for the theft of an artifact, he knew that he couldn't get away with it because Hudson held more of the Prince's trust than the Archmage did. At that point even Demona is never shown resenting humans in any way and was even secretly the Archamage's apprentice for a time. Their poor treatment really only came about after Princess Katherine became the lord as she continued to hold a grudge against Hudson for failing to protect her father from being poisoned by the Archmage that evolved into a general bias against the race as a whole.
Gargoyles are in danger of being smashed by humans, yeah, but the Castle Wyvern Human/Gargoyle alliance had been around for roughly 30 years, those humans in particular were not going to smash them, that isn't the type of guarantee they could get living on their own as we see Demona's remnant clan was always on the run before she allied with Macbeth.
Now THIS is a video essay challenge I can get behind. Watching now...
The amount of happiness I have seeing Gargoyles on my watchlist is through the roof
Much as I’m glad you chose Demona (easily one of the best villains ever written), I gotta say all those intro villainess scenes were bangers as well. God I miss early season Regina.
yeees, puttin’ respect on demona’s name for not being with the shits! and i looooove the professor x call out. i felt that.
Demona, the perfect example of self destruction.
Arguably one of the most complex and well written characters in TV history
Just a note, in the comics that Greg Weisman wrote that extends the show, Brooklyn travels back in time and brings Demona's clan from City of Stone back to the future. So they did survive after all. Sadly, the series was short and ended there. It would have been interesting to see how Demona would have reacted to them returning and joining Goliath. Maybe some would have left to work with her again, or maybe they would have helped her to finally turn good and start working with the others. Quite possibly both!
Didn't he even marry one and had kids?
@@Ladywizard o don't think that was in the comic since it wasn't a lot of time that passed, but it may have been one of the many things Greg had planned that's out there. Greg is writing a new series that is starting soon if it hasn't already, so we could finally get to see these things play out.
One of the best villainesses ever. Brilliant video!
2 lines that have stuck with me over 20 years of rewatching this show was Demona's "The access code is: alone" and Goliath's line to Xantos: "Only you would regard love as a weakness". This show deserves its revival happening in comic form, just announced this year.
I always lov when someone I respect is a Gargoyles fan!!! And yes, Demona is at times reprehensible, but her pain is so real. More real than a 90's cartoon has any right to display, and I love her for it.
Pain does exist, but for how long is solely up to you. In know, it can never fully go away, but you can either live with it, or let it eat you alive.
Liked before I even watched the whole thing. Demona ❤
My god, that scene where Demona gave up the code and finally admitted she was the cause of her own sorrow....it hit so hard years ago and is still just as powerful. That was such a good show, it sucks that the third season...well let’s just not mention that.
I don't think there is a villain I hated more but sympathized the most with then Demona. That line of what have I, what have they done to you? It showed us she will never see her mistakes, she will always be self-righteous and be blinded because of it, and if she just learned from her mistakes, she could be such a better person. But she can't see it, and not having that ability to better oneself is tragic. She is a villain who I am relieved to see lose, but I shed tears for her.
OMG, I forgot how delicious Callisto was as a villain. Great video! Always glad to see Gargoyles get some love.
"Demona radicalized me" - May I have your permission to put that on a sticker or a shirt? Because EXACTLY.
Thank you for all of your thoughts on the "Alone" scene. It's really incredible that almost 30 years later there is so much to analyze.
Also thanks for addressing Elisa against the truth of ACAB. It's hard to love her SO much but she is NYPD. Ugh. Let's get her out of that and on the Avengers or something.
One of the best scenes I've seen in a TV show
Gargoyles and X-Men get pushed closer and closer together as the decades go by, and I LOVE it.
It wasn't great in Goliath Chronicles, but I'd watch a Weisman-run X-Men show....for the two seasons it lasted.
With Marina Sirtis as Cassandra Nova.
Holy cannoli, you just sent me to heaven with this one. Welcome Gargoyle stans.
Not enough Gargoyles content out there. Thanks for this
I will never ever ever not shed a tear at "The access code is 'alone'."
Any sympathy and understanding for Demona/Magneto/other sympathetic villain is pointless if their agenda is genocide or enslavement of entire race/species though. That's the whole problem with Magneto IMO - a Holocaust survivor who now wants to reenact it on a much bigger scale on people who never had a part in it because he thinks everyone is the same? I understand why he feels what he feels but becoming the same as his oppressors (or even worse) is kinda stupid and pointless. Yes, Goliath from Gargoyles acted way too chill in the face of discrimination but the alternative is not reversing it!
People often rag on how overdone is the trope of condemning revenge in media but the fact is revenge has no good ending. The absolute best result you can get from it is killing someone who is still actively a threat and deserves comeuppance but that's a pretty rare outcome. Usually it just propagates violence and continues the circle and that's when we are talking about a concrete target of revenge. When you want to harm an entire race or species things CAN'T go well.
This is my view. This media isn't condemning being angry; it's condemning taking that anger out on people who had nothing to do with your oppression. Being oppressed does not give you the right to then go on to take out that anger on others who had nothing to do with it.
Goliath is the hero and Demona is the villain for two very simple reasons. Goliath refused to partake in the cycle, while Demona gave in and continued it.
It feels like forever since one of these has come up in my feed. Good stuff. I'm glad to hear that this show holds up after all this time.
Holy shit, Gargoyles content?! I swear no one talks about how much of a mythological and cultural masterpiece this show still is.
When I was in elementary school, me and my sister had a little tv in our room that you could program to turn on at a certain time, so, for a while, the Gargoyles theme song was my alarm clock to wake up and start getting ready for school. Unfortunately, I don't remember much of the show, just remember the characters. I've been planning on rewatching it, this may have just pushed me to finally do it! ^_^
I loved this video, thank you for making it!
Demona my first love 💞💞💞💞 she was right in a lot of her beliefs and also the monarchy apologism too is oooof on rewatch
Found your page by serendipity. I was listening to Comic Drake about The Villainous Scene series and that drew me in. As a 80s kid, I loved Gargoyles growing up and now I get to share that love with my kids thanks to Disney+. Although now you got adult me looking at it through new eyes. Watching it with my kids, I saw it as an adult father, but now I'll be watching as an adult Black father (side note my wife is Oneida, which is a Native American tribe in Wisconsin, so my kids are Oneida) but so many things you said rang true and now you have another subscriber. I can't wait to check out more videos as I barbeque and cut the grass. Keep doin what you're doin!
Gargoyles, especially Demona, represented one major theme in American and American Indigenous conflicts: First Nation peoples who sided with the American military forces when fighting other American Indigenous populations. A prime example is the Apsáalooke, who although fought alongside the American forces during the Plains Wars, was eventually forced onto a reservation and suffered the same ills as other Great Plains nations. Although they received some respect by the Americans, the constant underlying belief of the Noble Savage trope always coupled with racism and utility-until-deemed-useless by Americans. Demona’s place with her hubris is an honest reaction in the face of the Scott’s who showed their bigotry, overhearing MacBeth’s decision to consider siding with the English (honestly, England itself is a major traitor and coward, especially to the Shawnee people in the War of 1812), developing Machiavellian attitudes to life to adapt to a changing world with different and varying power structures, and all the while careful about alliances and plotting resistance against a group who she knew only cared about utility and versatility for their own means. Protecting her homeland becomes protecting a castle that belongs to invaders, then fighting to protect humans her clan allied grew testing with disrespect, which lead to her contracting with forces that never keep their bargain, rinse and repeat. Her plight for her species’ survival is a fair nuance observation on American Indigenous sentiments towards Invading Colonial powers, alliances, and recovering from the aftermath. I do not believe it would be fair to compare her to Ishi, but I bet she would have gone through similar mistreatment by Xanatos or other scientists by a Gargoyles version of UC Berkeley or the Smithsonian if Season 4 continued.
To me magical racism is extra weird when it's our world plus magical species, because it heavily insinuates that racism, slavery, etc towards other humans still happened.
Demona has been one of my absolute favorite characters for many years, loved your video.
It feels SO WRONG that the humans named the gargoyles, names are massive part of self identity and it feels kinda bad that the humans define the gargoyles, its so wack tbh, they define gargoyles and it allows them to reinforce their own biases.
Golaith, Demona, Bronx, & Bubika are given names. All other Gargoyles in the series choose their names. Gargoyle society in the 10th century didn't have names, it's purly a means of identifying leadership of the clans.
@@InOzWeTrust I see
There is not enough gargoyle content on RUclips! Great work!
i must rewatch this show. back when it was on tv when i was little, i honestly didn't remember her even being a villain! i was always way too attached to the tortured, misunderstood types though. 😂
I'm so happy to see this show get recognized like this, not a fan of the acab stuff, but like I get it. Great break down
OH DANG! I just finished my Demona's human form cosplay today! She's been one of my favorite characters since I was 5! I'm so excited to cosplay her!
I loved what you had to say about her character! I feel like the older I get, the more I understand Demona, even if I don't support or agree with her actions. She's even more likable than Magneto. Both characters make so many good points! I think that's why even as a little kid I gravitated towards them so much even though I didn't have all the words yet to explain why. I knew they did bad things, but there was more to it then that even to little kid me.
Ayyy! Props for putting a spotlight on Demona.
Demona is like Anakin Skywalker, she turned evil yet there’s light in her that she’ll likely to redeem herself. Although I’m not sure if she’ll die like Anakin or stay alive. I do feel her pain and betrayal but never wanted to go after people who are legitimate innocent. Demona is one my respected favorite villain.
Man, I forgot how much I loved Callisto. TNG/DS9 and Gargoyles fanatic over here. Early 90's had a lot of fun stuff on TV.
19:05 "Don't watch season 3." Read the dark horse comics instead and be disappointed that there are only 2 volumes. Still better than season 3.
Me sitting down to watch 22 minutes of Melina dissect a show I’ve never watched: can’t WAIT for this 🍿
Felt the same way when i first saw the series back in the 90s and always rooted for Demona, to an extent!
I love your commentary that people just hate each other. Something that I learned recently is the reason "pocahontas" was brought to England was because the English were actually horrified by what colonists were doing and wanted to end colonialism so the "advocacy" she was forced to perform was on behalf of white men.
It strikes me bc it tells me we've been having these same discussions for centuries and the worst of us keep managing to enact their will.
I can empathize with Demona, but I will not let her justify genocide.
So happy someone else remembers Gargoyles
The difference between magneto vs Charles and demona vs goliath is the way they go about the problem. Bigotry and racism will always exist. Using the mutants and gargoyles as an example if all of them started acting like demona and magneto they would only probe the preconceptions right and that will only lead to more pain and suffering.
The only way to find Peace is to be righteous, Demona will only find peace until she finds a way to let go and brake the circle of violence
Or she dies, and dies while trying to kill many innocent people while doing it. :(
I just realized a week after the fact that despite clicking on the video within an hour of launching it, I had to go back and watch it. Starting your video with three of my very favorite scene stealers caused my ADHD-ass brain to hit pause and just binge watch season one of Once Upon A Time and Sleeping Beauty. And also try to remember how to turn off the Italian subtitles on the Roku TV. And now here I am a week later, back and ready to watch Demona being the cause and solution to all her problems.
That scene always bring tears to my eyes. The moment she finally admits that she caused the downfall of her own kind
to herself. Finally admits that she is the reason she became alone.
And that leads into this:
you seem to miss one of the main points of the entire series, when you complain about Goliath and his stance.
"There is good and evil in all of us"
while some of the humans they protected didn't treat the gargoyles with the respect and humanity they very much earned, Demona deciding to betray them and get them all killed for that is. not. a. reasonable. decision.
Until she decided to betray all the humans in the castle, they had a symbiotic relationship: the gargoyles protect the humans by night and the humans protect the stone form gargoyles by day. They kept each other alive. The gargoyles were obviously stronger, but as is demonstrated by the viking killing all the gargoyles in the castle, they were defenseless during the day.
Most of the humans took this relationship and the gargoyle's protection by night for granted, and looked down on the gargoyles as "just monsters," however, that does not warrant a death sentence.
Goliath, being the wise leader that he is, understands that humans fearing the sheer power of gargoyles and their forms doesn't mean they would betray the gargoyles, and it doesn't mean they deserve death. He knew they had a symbiotic relationship as well.
There are parallels to real world racism in the show, but Demona's self-destructive, reactive hate of humans is definitely part of that picture. Just as professor Xavier knew that violence towards humanity would only perpetuate the cycle of hate and violence, so too did Goliath. You can't end fear and hatred with violence. Demona's reaction to the humans disrespect and fear of gargoyles is completely understandable. She's a beautifully written character, with relatable motivations and realistic reactions. Probably my favorite cartoon villain of all time.
But she should have followed Goliath's example. If she had, the entire series, the gargoyle's lives, would have all ended in that castle in due time, after living out their lives as they had first intended:
together.
yeah, i feel like she was missing the point when she was complaining about the humans not appreciating the Gargoyles while the video played the scene were the Captain of the Guard was actively defending Goliath and his right to be there. Sure, some humans are jerks, but what about others like the Tom, the human kid who showed active interest in befriending the young gargoyles before his mother stopped him due to her own inherited bias against the gargoyles, Tom even grows up to dedicate his life to protecting the children of Goliath's clan.
@@camil3545 exactly.
Not all humans are going to be shitheads.
Not all humans are going to be saints.
That's a running theme throughout the entire Gargoyles series.
I was gonna say something similar to this. It's obvious that she didn't understand the theme of the show. It's true that part of the theme is that good and evil can exist on both sides, but I feel the major thematic tie-in is Goliath's philosophy to persevere through bigotry on the idea that everyone has the ability to change.
Think about it, so many characters who are set up to be antagonistic or bigoted towards the gargoyles by the beginning of the series change their views on them- even accept them into their family circle in some cases- by the end of the series.
Goliath's philosophy constantly proves itself as opposed to Demona's. Where Goliath has the ability to change the minds of those who hate or fear him, Demona constantly proves their views right by acting like the monster they think she is and that's kind of the point of the moral standing of the show.
To sit there and say "I'ma burn this whole bitch down because no one respects me." in that situation ignores the whole point that the writing staff is trying to make because it's only playing into the hands of those who base their prejudice on fear. The gargoyles- particularly Goliath- are constantly being told that they are more human than actual people through their selfless actions despite constantly being discriminated against. And yea, we understand why Demona would do the things she does, but the show clearly sets up that the way she is doing things will never get her what she wants and only leads to ruin as revenge always ends up doing in any sort of narrative (including real life).
@@UbinTimor exactly. I wish i had said it this well. Thank you.
That absolutely is the point the show is trying to make, for all the reasons you've laid out here. Really well said. What I don't think is fair is this assertion that's come up a couple times here that "she missed the point." The argument the video makes isn't about what the show was saying. It was about how much that message makes sense in a broader context. She acknowledges the points the show is making and disagrees with some of them, and talks about why. I say this because it's not helpful to construct an argument where you imply that the only reason someone could disagree with a piece of media is if it went over their head, and I feel like you're in danger of falling into that line of faulty reasoning. Gargoyles was and is an amazing show and I adore it, but no piece of media is gonna be perfect, and I enjoyed this video a lot because it showed me a new perspective on something I like. One that makes me feel like I have a more nuanced view of it now. Anyway, dang, this scene gets me every time, too. So good.
Best One Villainous Scene, I've seen so far.
Video was excellent as always. Also, your new hair color looks amazing.
Trigun would make and amazing essay for how two brothers born from embodiments of nuclear powerplants were treated badly by a human and how they choose to internalise there view on the human race as a whole in different ways
Aw, a true Trekkie, you read the Marina Sirtis quote in Troi cadence. I am so happy.
those Scots accents are making me cry.
I tend to identify with antagonists like Magneto the older I get. I'm going to be 50 in a few years and so I've seen a lot of "you'll catch more flies with jam than vinegar!"
All that happens is it gives my oppressor more excuses to fuck me over because they know I'll take it. I'm not playing a long game, it's Stockholm Syndrome.
It infuriates me that these are the narratives we are peddling to children in media aimed at them.
Gargoyles is still one of the best things Disney has produced. Thoughtful and diverse casting, good writing and excellent VA.
Demona was definitely an instant fav for ..reasons but as I got older I understand and appreciated more the nuance and tragedy of her character. The epitome of “Sis, please heal”
You made some excellent points! Great video!
Honestly, since understanding her pain and crying nearly every single time her harsh demeanor fell through, it made me crave for her retribution and becoming good. Her love for Angela was proof this should've happened and I would've been over the moon for it.
Couple years back, at a local con there was a Demona cosplayer with even foldout wings. Dana Crosby and Brent Spiner had a panel, and he was so impressed with the costume he brought her on stage.
10:48 You dropped a word on me whe you pointed out the "good" guys are the one who don't push against the their bad treatment. And the "bad" guys aren't allowed to feel pain.
Demona, Magneto... I'm seeing the very strong similarities there. Both were subject to excessive racism, and went on to become reverse racists. They're villains that were clearly created by many other villains. The culmination of so much hatred was funneled into them. It's incredibly hard to hate a reverse villain, but in the end their actions have become just as bad. They ARE a villain. But they can be a victim too.
Taking this to real life situations is quite depressing. Racism through ignorance breeds a counter-racism through hatred. So many victims have risen up from under their abusers to follow in their footsteps. I don't think there's anything sadder to see. But our generation is the one that is finally paying attention to all this harm being done, we're fixing several millenia of bigoted ideas. And we're not a small group. Character types like Demona and Magneto will likely stop being seen in the decades to come, as they hopefully stop being relatable. This was a fantastic look into the character though, and how she is still very relevant today.
"That's my man tho.." lolol 😂 🤣 I love that!!!
Great show. I saw it when it first debuted and I'm still a fan. Not sure if this focused on "One Villainous Scene", but it was a well constructed video. But the scene essay seemed to be over after about 5 min. Still gave you a 👍 though. Not bad.
Petition for Princess to write the next gargoyles series. It’s the only way I’ll be guaranteed that sweet sweet Demona content
I LOVE Gargoyles and Demona's character arc and backstory have always been so unique. Truly a female villain that I'll always remember and I'm so happy you did your Villainous Scene over her!
Demona! I'm crying now. All the emotions. I have to watch Gargoyles again.
This TV show did so much so well, and even more so much ahead of it's time. Disney *can* do good characters when the right folks are on the books
Demona is a great character! I remember having to choose between watching gargoyles or sailor moon because they were on at the same time on different channels!!
This was my favourite cartoon when I came to the USA and was watching bare ones cable in Brooklyn to learn English. All I wanted to do was escape into this magical world 🌍. Loved it
demona just hits different... and tha infamous line of hers is such a clear definition of what she stands for
I wonder how many of us can trace some of the seeds of our later radicalization to Demona and Magneto.