Villain Therapy: FROLLO from The Hunchback of Notre Dame
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- Опубликовано: 27 мар 2023
- How does spiritual abuse affect yourself and your spirituality? Is this the darkest, not-kid-friendly animated Disney movie?
Licensed therapist Jonathan Decker and filmmaker Alan Seawright dive into the villainy of Frollo from The Hunchback of Notre Dame. Frollo is one of the worst characters ever (one of the best villains ever?) because of his abuse, predatory behavior, and self-righteousness. They discuss how Frollo’s spirituality is tied to his own perceived righteousness and goodness and how he blames others to absolve his conscience. Meanwhile, a non-Christian character demonstrates the true virtues of faith. Jonathan defines spiritual and religious abuse, and operant conditioning, while Alan explains why the gargoyles don’t make sense and why this movie isn’t for kids!
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Written by: Megan Seawright, Jonathan Decker, and Alan Seawright
Produced by: Jonathan Decker, Megan Seawright, Alan Seawright, and Corinne Demyanovich
Edited by: Emily Colton
Director of Photography: Bradley Olsen
English Transcription by: Anna Preis
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There is nothing more dangerous or frightening, than a Villain who believes his actions are just and right.
So true!
So... all of them?
@@rextyrrano5183all the good ones
Paragon characters can be the worst people to deal with
I am a writer in my spare time, and one of my antagonists was driven into madness by grief. What the character is doing, she kind of does believe that she is doing her late fiancé right by the actions she takes (which are completely wrong, hence why she's the antagonist!)
I feel like Frollo is one of the only Disney villains who gets scarier as you get older. He is far more realistic than, say, a magic sea witch. He makes you think of the real people like that. It's terrifying.
Yep. He reminds me of a minister and a youth pastor I had growing up.
Same here. He even makes me think of how it isn't all that "hard" to become like that. I'm not saying it happened overnight and was too "convenient", but it's scary to think it doesn't take all that much.
Mother Gothel is really the only one who can rival him. She, too, has no magic - only the power of manipulation, gaslighting, and guile.
They're a perfect match, really.
@@metaltsigga even more with the stageplay version of Frollo. He's such a loving (if misinformed) guy at the start, but you see how his obsession eats him and undoes any good he ever had in him
I agree
My favorite detail of the Hellfire Sequence is the way that Frollo only reaches out to her when he sees her in the smoke. When she's in fire, he's glaring, he's judging, he's condemning her. But when she goes out and comes out in smoke, he reaches out with open arms. He doesn't want HER, he wants a mild and sedated version of her, the animation visually almost "whitewashed" her. I love how that conveys his true desires.
She's a free spirit, and he feels the need to dominate and crush her. Lust mixed with a pathological need for control. It reminds me of what Le Pieu said to Danielle in _Ever After:_ "I had a horse like you, once. Magnificent creature; stubborn. Willful to a fault. It, too, just needed to be...broken."
@@alexisgrunden1556 Loved the use of that example/ scene in Ever After. It's my favorite movie 🌷
To be fair, would you reach out to someone made of fire?
@@greywolf7577 ... Literally, no. Metaphorically? Yes.
Never thought of it that way. But that’s exactly true and makes the song even more chilling.
The scene of Frollo basically molesting Esmeralda in a church, sniffing her, and then turning the situation back around on her to say that her viewing it as sexual abuse is a mark of her unholiness just gives me the heebie jeebies every time I see it.
I KNOW! I was literally yelling "BAD TOUCH" at my screen and trying to shrink into my own skin!
It's so well-written. We quickly come to hate Frollo and take such satisfaction in his demise after watching the epitome of evil get away with so much.
Worth noting: Quasimoto didn't break the chains. He broke the COLUMNS holding the chains. He broke away from the FOUNDATION, then uses the chains to his advantage. I adore that detail with all my heart.
It’s also really cool in a biblical context. In the Bible, Samson’s last act of defiance against the Philistines who seduced him, cut his hair, and bound him to the pillar foundations of the temple to Baal was to literally tear away from the columns of the temple with his chains, bringing it down on the Philistines and killing them and himself, much like Quasi breaking the foundations of the columns in the cathedral ultimately led to the death of Frollo.
The video showed some of the actual links breaking, so.....
@@paigelively6264 Yeah, I noticed that parallel too.
@@danreyn Yeah, I think he broke both the chains and the columns
That's also a reference to Samson in the Bible
When the Philistines captured him and tortured him, God set him free by giving him back his strength which allowed him to destroy the pillars in the building they were all in
What makes Frollo so unsettling compared to other Disney villains is how realistic he is. He doesn’t use magical powers or loyal minions to get what he wants-just sheer, unadulterated gaslighting.
To anyone reading this who has been hurt by a Frollo in their life: It wasn’t your fault. You matter.
Also how he really sells the "caring father figure", at least in the beginning.
Incredibly common in toxic parents.
"I know I'm keeping you from going out there and living your life, but I only do it because I love you!"
I sure as sh!t believed that garbage.
Right ! There is no magic in that movie. The gargoyles only interact with Quasimodo and might very well be (and probably are) just imaginary friends.
He doesn’t needs powers to be powerful and intimidating because he already is
@@professeurgideere5856 They are definitely not imaginary considering Esmeralda's goat actually freaks out a bit when he sees one of them move and all 3 gargoyles help in the final battle and actually cause things. But the no magic argument still holds up because even though they are really alive they don't actually contribute to the plot other than being Quasimodo's friends and helping out during the battle. The one magic element in the movie is just a couple of existing characters. The actual plot and conflict is completely human and realistic. Which is so rare for a Disney movie and it works so incredibly well. I really hope they do something like that again.
They mentioned parents complaining. The major complaints were girls complaining Frollo was just like their mothers romantic partner. So the mothers blamed and banned the movie from their house.
I heard that story several times back when I was a teacher.
I find it insane that not only does Frollo blame Esmeralda for most of Hellfire, he also blames GOD HIMSELF, basically saying "why would you make the devil capable of tempting us if you didn't want us to be tempted"
Interestingly, Hellfire is basically a prayer, yeah? Well that prayer is, functionally answered in a few different ways. Most crucially, when he calls out to Maria to protect him from Esmeralda, the door immediately shoots open and Frollo is notified that Esmeralda is gone. His prayer was ANSWERED, but because of Frollo's Hubris and arrogance, he failed to notice. That is AFTER he blames God. In fact, there is a reading that everything in this movie is God desperately trying to make Frollo see the error of his ways. It is only when Frollo begins attempting to destroy Notre Dame, which is coded as being synonymous with God throughout the film, i.e. only when he begins attacking GOD HIMSELF, does God finally stop giving Frollo additional chances.
I... LOVE that interpretation, @@Mr.Monacle !
Ah the question that no theist has ever had a good answer to.
@@YVH636it’s because God gave us free will
@@scoopysketches that tired, old response. Typical. Let me ask you: does your god have free will?
I think “Hellfire” is one of the most powerful and underrated Disney songs. The amazing orchestral arrangement that builds up the dynamics and the storytelling of the song is truly a key element of that skin-crawling scene in my opinion
Having it transition directly from "Heaven's Light" also does a great job of showcasing the hero and villain for what they are. Two people singing about what they think love is.
You do realise that it tops basically any "Top Ten Villain Songs" lists in existence, right? But I agree; it is just..breathtaking and haunting and mesmerizing and terrifying in all the right and wrong ways
I’m not a die hard fan of this movie but the music/songs are S-tier
and it's soooooooo good in french!
What I love about the Hellfire song is the way the Latin chanting in the background *directly* contradicts every single line and claim Frolo delivers. "It's not my fault" / "Mea Culpa (I'm guilty)". Line for line. The writes nailed this piece.
I love that while Frollo is saying "It's not my fault, I'm not to blame!" the shadowy monks are chanting "Mea culpa, mea culpa," directly contradicting him.
Mea maxima culpa. My most grievous fault.
They kind of seem more like angels sitting in judgement against him and trying to get him to confess his sins. Admit that he's culpable. (Mea culpa.) Especially since at the beginning of the song when the priests are singing in Latin, it's about confessing to the Virgin Mary, the archangel Michael, the apostles and saints. The idea is about getting him to face his own sin instead of pointing the blame elsewhere. The more he resists, the worse the scene gets. Especially toward the end of the song when the red robed figures turn to shadows rushing around him with crosses in their hands as though they're weapons. Being that crosses were used for carrying out judgement in the new testament, it makes sense. And angels in the Bible are typically terrifying and are often responsible for carrying out God's judgement, and it looks like this is how it was portrayed here, at least to me.
Really, I'm just glad some others noticed the mea culpa part besides me. It seems like this sometimes gets overlooked too easily.
I think they're supposed to represent that Frollo knows he's to blame for his obsessive lust for Esmeralda but won't admit it.
et tibi, pater. cogitatione, verbo et opere, mea culpa ... "you too, father [have sinned]. In thought, in words, and in deeds. Your fault."
@@samanthadrakos since the first words, the chorus is trying to correct Frollo. And even then, first he blames Esmeralda, then he blames the devil, then he even resorts to blaming God Himself! He would rather blame his own deity that he worships rather than admit fault, and it's at this point that the red robes wrap around him and drag him closer to the fireplace/hell.
Not only that, but another video analysis aptly pointed out the fact that Frollo's prayers were STILL literally answered after this, the moment right after he says "don't let her fire sear my flesh and bones, or else let her be mine..." a messenger in a bright light appears directly behind him to tell him that Esmeralda has disappeared. An opportunity for Frollo to forget about her and move on, and he *chooses* not to take it.
I love stories and themes like this. The Monk from Gregor Lewis came out before The Hunchback of Notre Dame was ever written, and I believe that the outwardly pious but inwardly vile and lust-filled Ambrosio had influenced Frollo's character. In case you were interested in something with similar themes!
The big difference in Mother Gothel and Frollo is, that Mother Gothel knows she is evil and knows she is lying, but Frollo believes his own lies and really thinks he is the only good person out there. And for all the evil things Mother Gothel did I think Frollo is even more horrific as a person.
I think deep down Frollo *knows* he is a disgusting man a 'sinner' in his own words. However the denial to admit it, through pride and narcissism causes him to continue to seek out victims, ppl who are 'worse than him' in order to justify his cruelty.
And tbh Gothel didn't kill anyone directly until Flynn, VS Frollo who regularly sends ppl to be tortured, so I'd imagine he straight up just has a higher body count
Absolutely
Come to think of it, I think that's why Umbridge makes people shudder more than Voldemort; because one is a "real" character that most definitely exists in our world, while the other is a villain in a fantasy story.
@@Atlessa I wouldn't say so. There are extremists murder ashholes out there, that function basically on the level of Voldemort.
What makes Umbridge so much more frightening is the fact of here seemingly nice facade.
She talks nice, looks like a sweet old granny, has all those cat things arround her ...
You don't expect her being evil, but especially not being THAT evil.
@@drakmendoa You are still more likely to meet an Umbridge than a Voldemort in real life though.
I think the reason why Hellfire is so creepy is because it’s more of an “I Want” song, which is usually reserved for the hero (ex: How Far I’ll Go, First Time in Forever)
Wow! It is... I didn't realize that. It's so freaky
I Can Go the Distance, Part of Your World, etc.
Well to be fair, a lot of Disney main characters are spoiled brats!
I have such a hard time watching the little mermaid: She dreams of a larger world, walking on land, etc - But the earth is covered by water, its the blue planet ffs!
(I know she's just following her dream etc. but I really don't have much in the way of sympathy for Ariel)
In general the whole tale telling of the upper class kids wanting more than they already have because they have it so horrible, does not really speak to me: Something like Mulan instead, she does not go out to get something she wants, she fights very hard to prevent something she does NOT want. To protect someone she loves.
And the story of Quasimodo is also much more powerful than that of the disney princesses imo.
And to the whole point of the "I Want" song, is where it often breaks for me, because often it seems like its just really selfish.
Oh shit!
Good call out. I really think Frollo is one of the best villains out there because he's not sympathetic but you understand his reasoning, and that reasoning is scary. So well written.
As a Christain, Frollo legit made me so uncomfortable. I remember watching it in online class and just thinking every time he said something "No... this is wrong... this isnt right what is he doing... he is wrong" and to this day i just never watched the movie. I love how they explained things because it gave my scramble of disgust, anger and confusion-like thoughts a label and explained more about it to where i could understand. From what I've seen from this video and about the half of the movie i watched that day before just leaving the class for my sanity, i can say this movie while it is heavy it is a good movie.
Yeah, it is very heavy, but it is very well done film. I really like it, and enjoy watching it, but I understand why not everyone does.
I didn’t realize how flipping DARK this movie was until I was an adult. Goodness!
i feel like this movie was trying to be anti-christ by hiding the ball a bit. It lacks the resolution of showing how the scriptures condemn Frolo. It was created to do damage, it just manages to be true enough to do a different kind of damage.
bruh if this is heavy you must of been very sheltered
@@BonesMalon3 And that's a good thing darker aspects of life don't affect some people. This is very dark of a movie.
In the book, Quasimodo literally heard voices due to psychosis. The gargoyles were always supposed to represent these voices.
@Dan Xander - I have not read the book, but what you wrote makes a ton of sense.
I read about this but was not sure if I remembered right! 💙
That makes sense
They made a book about this?!
Yes, it's a reference. A joke. +1 internets to anyone who can name the movie that reference is from ....without using google....
@@zombieregime 😐
The line Quasimodo says when he finally stands up to Frollo "All my life you've told me the world was a dark, cruel place. But now I see the only thing dark and cruel about it is people like you." gets me every single time.
YEAH SO GOOD.
That really breaks the cycle of control, conformity, and manipulation
And he was right.
Right there with you! The best moment in the whole film 🙌🏻
Same here
Honestly, I think Frollo is the same level as Umbridge in the Harry Potter movies. Realistic everyday villains, with no sad backstory to make them relatable. They are villains you see everyday in your life, hiding in plain sight behind sweet words and righteous actions.
Yep. What makes Umbridge and Frollo so frightening and relatable is not only did they fully believe their actions were righteous, but they were also legal. Even if their actions weren't morally correct, they were still legal, according to the laws that were in place at the time! And it's much harder to fight a villian who technically hasn't broken any laws, because they can argue that because no laws were broken, they haven't done anything wrong.
Some things are normalized so much people don’t realize that it’s wrong
This is so on point, and it's chilling.
@@aubreycarter7624 It's not just about the law. Frollo isn't just "abiding" by the law, he's enforcing it and making sacrifices to act "morally". He spent decades of his life caring and raising this orphan, deformed, unloved creature. Even though the archdeacon told him to raise the child, it wouldn't have been against the law to abandon him.
It took Frollo a lot of efforts and what he believes is abnegation to personally care for Quasimodo.
When Quasimodo is being crowned as the fool and Frollo refuses to help because "a lesson needs to be taught", he believes his own excuse. That it's a teaching moment, that he is doing it for Quasimodo's sake.
And I think that might be one of the most reliable ways to create a villain that audiences are primed to hate.
Using myself as an example, I think Maleficent is a boss. Sure, she's irredeemably evil and doesn't bother to hide it, but on top of being self-aware that she's doing nothing good for anyone but herself and is reveling in it, she just OOZES charisma, and her villainous acts are fantastical with no basis in reality.
What makes villains like Frollo and Umbridge SO easy to hate is how disturbingly realistic they are. Good luck finding someone like Maleficent or Ursula, but Christianity has been plagued by people like Frollo FOR CENTURIES.
For me personally, Esmeralda is my favorite "Princess" (even she's not signed as one, for me she is). As a disabled person, to see someone who's got so much of pasion, warmth and kindness in her heart and see other people - no mater what - as equal, was such an enlightment for me in my childhood
She used to be a Disney princess but her merch didn’t sell well, since the movie was so dark.
As a fellow disabled person ❤ I agree all the way
A teacher of mine worked on this specifically as an animator for the gargoyles, and he told us that the gargoyles are indeed in Quasimodo’s head. Also, the Hellfire scene was storyboarded by two twins who worked at Disney, and they shut themselves in a room for days without letting anyone see it until it was basically done because they knew that if the idea was half-baked, no one would give them the chance to finish it and truly pitch it.
If they are in Quasimodo's head though, how were they able to participate in the final battle? I like the idea that they were figments of Quasi's imagination, but the climax pokes a huge hole in that theory.
@@vulcanhumor Since I myself was not there, I do not know for sure. It also does not make sense for little moments like Esmeralda’s goat noticing the gargoyles. I could text my old teacher and ask him if you like. However, I have a strong feeling based on past conversations that his answer would be something along the lines of this: “We mostly operated under that premise, but executives asked us to add in those other moments. It’s not meant to be thought too hard on or it starts to fall apart.” Would you like me to ask him though?
@@kmcarras Your teacher would know for sure since he's the one that worked on it; but from an audience member's point of view it felt like somebody working on this movie designed the gargoyles as being in Quasimodo's head, and somebody else was telling them "Hey, don't forget this is a kid's movie. Have the gargoyle fly around making fighter plane noises and spit rocks at the bad guys." Funny thing, I was a kid at the beginning of the Disney Renaissance and a teen by the time this movie came out. Part of the time it felt like the movie was aimed at my age bracket, and part of the time it felt like it was aiming for little kids. There are some good movies out there that are skillfully able to do both at the same time, but in this case it ended up going back and forth between two different styles that didn't mix well.
@@vulcanhumor I mean, if you cut some scenes here and there (like the soldiers shielding from the fat statue's fire spit and the catapult gag) then it's spot on that they're in Quasimodo's head.
@@snowangelnc Oh 100% I think that’s totally what was going on with that. These movies are made with so many people involved and it can often become a too many cooks in the kitchen situation with a tug of war between different voices.
i always liked the theory that the gargoyles moving around was all in his head, and that it is one of the reasons he is so insanely strong. Because he keeps dragging them around and putting them in different spots as he is 'interacting' with them.
I wish they went that direction, but they gargoyles had unfortunately interacted with other characters so they're "real" and not just his imagination
Which also makes the song "Guy like you" a lil sad.
@@TheGoldenDunsparce unless the other characters were just playing along for him out of pity or something I know they were probably somehow real but
@@TheGoldenDunsparce Whey did the gargoyles interact with anyone other than Quasi? I mean, not counting animals.
I haven't watched this since I was a kid, and that was my assumption all this time
The interesting thing about Hellfire that not enough people acknowledge is that Frollo's prayer is ANSWERED.
The guard at the entrance tells Frollo that Esmeralda has escaped and disappeared. Which is exactly what Frollo asked for. For her to either be his property OR for her to be gone from his life forever.
But because of his pride and hatred, he threw that prayer away forever and started down the road to his own destruction.
God gave Frollo exactly what he wanted...and Frollo spat in his face.
Something I find fascinating about the hellfire scene, other than the choir chanting "mea culpa" (my fault), is that when Frollo prays to be freed from Esmerelda's "spell", it's immediately answered with the guard telling him she'd escaped; and instead of letting her go, he pursues her. Frollo had every chance to turn around and change, but through (excuse me for the biblical reference) the hardness of his heart, he chose his own desires which ultimately doomed him
He wouldn’t have even had to change. He would have had to do…nothing. That’s all it would have taken.
One of the worst people in Disney canon has one of the best songs, and it just doesn't seem fair.
This right here….
So true
Yeah...
The more evil the villain, the more awesome the villain song
Preach, Villain Songs are usually the best, and Tony Jay performed the HECK out of it, making you love to hate Frollo even more.
I love when Frollo says, “a lesson needs to be taught here” and that’s when Esmeralda comes forward and teaches her lesson of love.
That so powerfull
Omg you’re right, I never noticed that!
I'll never see this scene the same way, this is beautiful and true :3
She’s such a badass about it, too. I’ve always loved how unafraid she is to stand up for others.
Ah yes, Frollo. A lesson does indeed need to be taught, to you. 🙂
As someone who grew up religious, I have met many Frollos in my life who made me turn away from religion because of their spiritual abuse. I never even considered it as abuse, but the older I got and the more I questioned it, I began to see more of their real faces and how harmful their messages were. I’m so grateful for this channel ❤
Thank you for sharing and thanks for watching ❤️
Jesus will never abuse you. He was abused by His people to save you
@@jamestolbert1856 Ok Frollo.
@@NoobSebot I’m not like Frollo. I’m sorry if I disturbed you. It was not my intention, I only wanted to share my truth with you
@@jamestolbert1856The person never said jesus abused them, but by their own kind, Like me, i believe in god and all of his righteousness, but i am in doubt, and i do not like to be involved with "People who believe in god" , as most of the time they end up being the worst people i could ever imagine, im not generalizing its just most and what ive experienced and seen, People believe in god but they dont follow his 10 commandments
When i got older i realized both Esmeralda and Frollo pray to Maria but complete opposite ends of the spectrum. Those little details hit so much harder now
Can we all just agree that Tony Jay, the voice actor for Frollo, is absolutely STELLAR in his performance? Everything that gentleman has done is gold.
He did an incredible job!
@@CinemaTherapyShow I literally didn't put together that he narrated half the documentaries I watched, as a child as an adult. I was watching a damn serial killer doc when I finally recognized his voice. Sadly he died in 2006 but he left us a wonderful legacy.
All this time I thought it was Jeremy Irons.
I heard he did special training to hit the last note of Hellfire. Just because you're great doesn't mean it comes easily.
I thought the VA was James Earl jones, since his VA in Spain is Constantino Romero, who usually makes James voices
I find it amazing that Frollo asks for a sign from god and the guard comes in and says that Esmiralda escaped and his reaction isn't: "That is a sign" He doesn't want a sign, he wants affirmation
Yes! I was about to post about this. The symbolism in “Hellfire” is so spot-on! The red-robed figures are chanting “Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa,” the beginning lines of the Rite of Confession; instead of confessing his own sins, Frollo blames someone else and takes no accountability for his own actions and thoughts.
And after watching this again as an adult, the first half of the song is Frollo begging Heaven for salvation from his sinful thoughts. At that moment, when the guard opens the door to tell Frollo that Esmeralda escaped the cathedral, the guard is *bathed in a heavenly light*. Heaven *answered Frollo’s prayer* by removing the “temptation” entirely, but rather than accept this out, this Get Outta Hell Free Card, rather than accept the salvation he asked for, he instead dismisses it and *turns back to the fire*. He had his chance to redeem himself and admit his own fault (“mea culpa” = “my fault”), but instead chooses the path to his own damnation. *That* is some damn good symbolism, and whether intentional or not, it blew my mind when I realized it.
@@SunflowerHeliotrope just beautiful
@@SunflowerHeliotrope another moment like that is how he dies. He quotes the bible before attacking Quasimodo saying "and He shall strike down the wicked and cast them into the firey pit" before the ledge he is standing on crumbles beneath him and he falls into the fire below. God (represented by Notre Dame) strikes down Frolo for his wickedness.
Great observation!!!
@@SunflowerHeliotrope Thank you for sharing this info!! That’s some wicked symbolism, I adore this movie to bits!!
As the daughter of a cult leader, this movie really resonates with me on a deeply personal level. Being isolated from friends, my entire family, taught to fear and getting death threats if I disobeyed. She even pulled a gun on my now husband and threatened to kill him along with anyone I cared about. I was nearly killed multiple times from her abuse, and one day the hospital told me that if I hadn't come in that night, I would have died.
The fact that you're covering this video definitely makes me feel heard and understood. Thank you for everything you guys do, you're truly beautiful people.
CULT LEADER?!!?
may you and your husband stay safe!!
I hope you have found peace, and that you and your husband stay safe.
so happy you got out. Please be aware that there are people in political and cultural power who are going through similar things against their will. Gangs are cults too. please help raise awareness of the hope to forgive those who feel forced into perpetuating such practices. If we civies can't forgive power abusers for "just following orders" then fear of cohorts and us will combine to keep them chained in their harmful ways.
As a disabled woman, Frollo is the scariest villian ive ever seen. Scarier than any horror film because of how vile and self rightous he is. Makes my skin itch and crawl and feel suffocated.
I still almost start to cry whenever I hear Esmeralda respond to “silence” with “justice!”
And Quasimodo crying out, proclaiming the church as “SANCTUARY. SANCTUARY. SANCTUARY.”
…Has me bawling. It should be that. It should be sanctuary.
It sends chills down my spine!! Such a powerful moment.
i love that juxtapostition. that the religion that tells you you to be quiet and blindly fallow, is just control.
Esmeralda is Disney's most underrated heroine imo
That scene is powerful
What I love about the 'Hellfire' song is that it starts with the confession prayer in Latin and it goes on during the whole piece. When Frollo sings 'It's not my fault', the red monk-like characters sing 'Mea culpa' which means 'through my fault' and as they disappear in the fireplace, they sing 'mea maxima culpa' which means 'through my grievous fault'. This gives me the feeling that in this scene is having an inner battle and those red monks are his conscience because deep down he knows that the problem is in him and not in Esmeralda.
I also love the way the scene ends when the chorus sings 'Kyrie eleison' (Lord, have mercy). So, yes, he believes that he is the right guy, but his conscience is speaking to him in this scene.
For me, this is an absolute hit and every time my daughter watches it and I hear this song start, I drop everything and sit down with her to watch.
Someone (don't remember who sadly) pointed out to me that the guard interrupting him was literally an answer to his prayer. He brought news that Esmerelda escaped, she was out of Frollo's life and he didn't have to think of her anymore, but he didn't like that answer.
Lol I just commented the same thing, should've read through the comments first
@@flibbernodgets7018 some say that the fire represented hell(as in the name hellfire) and he constantly kept turning back to the fire. in that scene it was him turning away from God as he turned back to face the fire getting consumed by his lust
and to add to the amazing contrast, the whole 'mea culpa' and 'Kyrie eleison' bits are part Latin versions of the Penitential Act, a part of Catholic Mass where people confess their sins and beg for God's (and their peer's i believe) forgiveness. really clever stuff and attention to detail they did and I love it!
As a child this movie terrified (being raised Catholic and also physically looking like Esmeralda didn’t help) and my parents forbid me and my brother watching it too much and I didn’t understand why until I was an adult woman and watched this again in horror. It’s a psychological thriller with beautiful music. I’m still in disbelief they were brave enough to tell this story.
Can't wait how dark it will be when it is given the Disney live action treatment. Might have to give it an R rating.
And do you mean you had Esmeralda's ethnicity?
The best thing about this is that when he's singing "It's not my fault, I'm not to blame" in Hellfire - the chorus in the background is singing "mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa." It means "My fault, my own most grievous/horrible fault" . Freakin love this movie.
All the Latin chanting is a direct contradiction to what Frollo sings. He talks of being righteous and above the others. The Latin chant is "I come to you humbly, as a sinner, no better than anyone else. When he sings "The devil is stronger" the Latin chants "I take responsibility for myself"
Here is a theory I have read in the comments: During the song Hellfire, God does answer Frollo praying to be saved by having the soldier appear coincidentally, with light shining from behind, to me it symbolizes God, telling him that Esmeralda has left the cathedral and is gone.
God is practically giving Frollo a chance of salvation and redemption by taking away the problem, the only thing Frollo had to do to save himself is to have simply let "the gypsy" go and not worry about her, but he turns away from the light and towards the fire, giving into his lust, and puts effort into hunting her down. Frollo literally says that HE will burn down all of Paris just to get Esmeralda.
The soldier also sounds (to me) different from the other soldiers, more refined and wise, as if the soldier is something more than just, well, a soldier.
Also, the blue/white light shining behind the soldier is in contrast to the red/orange color of the fire, which to me, symbolizes the forces of Heaven and Hell.
I heard that God speaks through people. This theory could stand and be canon.
I absolutely love it
@@sakura3837that’s incredible if it’s what it symbolizes and it’s that much more true.
Oh my gosh thats such a good theory
I think this is probably canon, bc you know where else you see that specific color palette of soft blue/white light that's behind the guard? The song directly before this, literally called "Heaven's Light". They may not be beating you over the head with it, but I don't think Disney's trying to hide their intentions or meaning either.
There was a teacher at my high school who reminded me of Frollo. I was so unnerved by him I took several suspensions rather than attend 'meetings' in his office. (The one room in the whole school with only one door and no windows.) Many years later he was arrested for assaulting students. Legit I think this movie saved me from something terrible.
That room and him calling them "meetings" def sus 🤢
My family wasn't as obvious as frollo and they were like him too. Turns out being a pagan was right for me. Ironically i loved this movie, it actively terrified me.
@@dionysus_adores Pagan pride all the way!👍🎆 (Also Pan pride too)
Wow
I'm glad that you're okay and that he was finally arrested.
Can I just say, the moment Quazi breaks those chains is probably one of the most badass moments in animation.
I get shivers everytime. The choir singing out like Quasimodo is finally letting his own voice and actions out.
Quasimodo: Samson (Breaking free of the chains/ columns: : Tearing down the temple)
Esmeralda : The merciful Samaritan (The person society expects to be / considers to be sinful /bad is more loving than the "righteous" religious people)
Frollo: The high priests ("Whitewashed tombs, all nice on the outside, but icky on the inside)
The crowd (while Quasimodo is tied up, before they change their minds about him): The crowd shouting crucify
Frollo makes those priests look like saints. They tried to arrange the death of one man, while Frollo was on the path to commit genocide.
I'm not sure if anyone else mentioned, but towards the end of Hellfire, the guard was cast in a soft blue light that the film used before to portray holiness. Right as Frollo was praying to either let him have Esmeralda or get rid of her, the guard comes to tell him she escaped. It's speculated that this was a message from God, answering Frollo's pray and giving him a chance to walk away from this insanely creepy obession he has for her.
Wow that’s amazing!
I’m glad you noticed that too
while Frollo is cast in the red light of fire as if he was in front of Hell
It’s not ‘insanely creepy’ to have those emotions or impulses towards someone, it’s just poorly handled by him. Like they pointed out in the video, he is an incel, and doesn’t know how to healthily handle his emotions- he was probably horribly abused by parents who taught him how wrong and ‘sinful’ it was, they were likely racists too, as most were, and taught him to think himself better than people of different races, religious beliefs, and cultures. He had the choices along the way, to become better, but he didn’t take them because this is what he was taught was ‘good’ and what he got approval for acting like: this is why it’s _so important_ to stop focusing on how awful our parents were and what they did to us/taught us, and get out of the blame mentality and take responsibility for who we choose to be NOW and move on with our lives so we can get out of their shadow and become who we actually ARE, not who they trained us to be (little versions of them). He grew the way he was told was ‘good’, but he didn’t ever truly discover authentic connection with his soul or God, true goodness- he let the dictates against sin he was taught be the core of his personality: desperate, zealous religiosity because some other place was his only hope of ever being happy- and doesn’t care at all for his own emotional well-being. I told my sister about our mother recently, “how can she treat you better than she treats herself?” Frollo persecutes _himself_ relentlessly, when turning that on others, he isn’t changing his behaviours at all, it is simply his attention being turned outward from inward. He already lives in hell, because he won’t let himself be happy.
This whole story can almost be seen as an analogy: he keeps what he considers unsightly of himself locked up and away from others, hates it and persecutes it, affirming its unacceptability, but when he encounters out in the world things that refute his own beliefs (Esmeralda being kind to Quasi, even though Frollo doesn’t believe that possible, thinks the world would only reject him) he becomes intrigued by the person who represents this new potential way of being. His only way to handle his feelings for her are to want to marry her because - as pointed out by them in the episode, he has desire for her and thinks the only non-sinful way (Jesus says even the thought of doing something is doing it) is to marry her; he wants more of what she represents in his life (the good aspects want it because they know even now, what’s truly good, and stretch for it like plants for sunlight, but the non-soul-aligned parts of him want to conquer her as he as a child was conquered, to show her how awful the world really is, and that he and his parents (and theirs and theirs and theirs) were right all along). It’s the struggle of a man buried very deeply under his own beliefs and resistances, trapped in misery, hoping somehow, there’s a way out.
@@highfae idk dude but basing who Frollo is and why he did the stuff he did due to the speculation that he had "bad parents" is kind of a... terrible argument regarding his character. I mean, his parents were't even mentioned anywhere in the movie or in the original novel as far as i know. Added to that, I dont think Frollo even wanted to "marry" Esmeralda, he just wanted to "have" her (if you know what i mean). He was basically horny as heck for her, so much so that he was willing to burn the entirety of Paris.
The part in “God Help The Outcasts” where all the churchgoers are praying to god for things for themselves (“i ask for wealth, i ask for fame,” etc) and Esmerelda follows it up with that she doesn’t want anything other than helping people worse off than her is SUCH A GOOD LINE urgh it makes me so happy
Yeah, that line more or less originated in the 1939 version of Hunchback of Notre Dame. The most interesting thing, to me, about the Disney version is that it's less an adaptation of the book than it is an amalgamation of different Hunchback films. Well, plus gargoyles, which incidentally is the part of the movie that doesn't work. Lindsay Ellis has a fun video essay about Disney's Hunchback that I would recommend!
Esmerelda is such a awesome Character.
Is it just me or was her prayer answered through Quasi?
@@racheljackson4428 I remember how much I wanted to be her as a kid, unfortunately I was more like Quasi.
@@RosheenQuynh seems like it. All of Paris was spared from Frollo's wrath and injustice because of Quasi.
I know this is a stretch to ask for, but if you guys could do a follow-up for Quasimodo, I would be overjoyed. He’s always been one of my favorite Disney characters, and I’d love to hear from a therapist’s perspective what he’d be dealing with and how to cope with the kind of trauma that he endured
I second this!👆
Quasimodo broke through his trauma by acknowledging the fact that he was never the one at fault here. When he finally stands up to Frollo saying "All my life you've told me the world is a dark cruel place but now I see the only dark and cruel about it is people like you!" that moment is when he truly broke the foundation of his spiritual abuse.
They did answer that question: "Breaking free of spiritual abuse is getting in touch with your inner self. Doing what you believe is right and not what you've been told is right."
One thing I saw someone point out once in the Hellfire sequence was the part where he constantly shifts the blame for his actions. First it’s Esmerelda he’s calling a witch who did this to him, then he claims it’s God’s plan, then he says that He made the devil so much stronger than a man, so Frollo is quite literally taking the blame for NONE of this, and pinning it on everything else.
Idk if anyone pointed it out, but the juxtaposition of Frollo saying "it's not my fault" being responded by "mea culpa" always just gives me chills!
Yes! The latin language we hear in this movie matters and means something. Brownie points for that easter egg.
I actually ADORE the way that the Latin chorus in Hellfire directly contradicts everything that Frollo is saying! It's as if the chorus acts as his own subliminal subconscious.
The first thing he says when he extols his virtue is "You know I am a righteous man, of my virtue I am justly proud" while the chorus is singing the confiteor (a prayer of guilt and repentance) and the chorus immediately replies with "et tibi pater" which translates to "and YOU too, father." As if to say you are also guilty of sin, priest. This is easier to catch with subtitles on!
Frollo: "I'm so much purer than the common vulgar...crowd" - Chorus: "I (Frollo) have greatly sinned"
Frollo: "Tell me Maria... why I see her dancing there..." - Chorus: "in thought [you have sinned]"
Frollo: "The sun in her hair... is blazing in me out of all control" - Chorus: "in words and in deeds [you have sinned]"
Frollo: "It's not my fault! I'm not to blame" - Chorus: "your fault, your fault, your most ultimate complete fault."
I'm not sure if more people have noticed this, I wish it was pointed out more
@@FeministCatwoman THis again makes me wish the gargoyles had more mature moments to them and are just a tad more shown as Qausis self help in a way? Since it would fit to Frollos literally telling him hes in the wrong.
@@XonixDerps I agree! It really should have been established that the gargoyles are being moved around by Quasi himself, because he needed those imaginary friends and encouragement in his isolation, especially since the original version of Hunchback featured gargoyles prominently as Quasi's coping mechanism. Perfect 10/10 movie for older audiences if only the silly statue elements were toned down or more comically appropriate in non-serious scenes (honestly Djali the pet goat mascot could probably go too lol)
A theory I stumbled upon with Hellfire is that in the beginning, Frollo is begging the Virgin Mary (Beata Maria) to intervene. Then, in the middle of his song, a soldier interrupts. A faceless soldier backlit by a bright light informing Frollo that Esmerelda is gone. If Frollo left it at that, he'll probably never see her again and never be bothered by his lusts.
Frollo dismisses the soldier, who doesn't respond but dutifully closes the door to the light as Frollo turns back to the flames and recommits to pursuing Esmerelda at the cost of everything.
The theory is that the soldier *was* the divine intervention, which Frollo dismissed and in doing so doomed himself.
Wasn't allowed to watch this movie as a kid because how dare a religious guy be the villain. But I did get to watch Tangled later. Mother Gothel was incredibly eye opening to me. Especially when my mom said "they're making the mother figure out to be the bad guy. It's going to make kids rebellious" literally right before she said "great now I'm the bad guy." SO incredibly eye opening. Movies like this are so important
Well technically she was right lol. Just probably not on how good it is for those kids.
Agreed, I like that there are movies That show that people of higher authority than you can also be wrong,
I hope your mom realized that some mothers can be Gothels and some religious leaders can be Frollos
They’re going to make the woman who kidnaps someone else’s child for her own selfish vanity the bad guy. Disgraceful 😂
dude I loved this movie as a kid! and I remember the first time I watched it, I kept thinking "huh, this Frollo guy reminds me of mommy!" I did not see how messed up that was until much later
I had the same reaction as a teen because I was so brainwashed. Good thing my elder siblings explained to me that we shouldn't listen to people like that, so It teaches good things. Still, It took me couple of years to really understand it.
One of the fun thing about Quazi and Frollos duet is that after the call and response section, Frollo is both singing the bass, which determines the quality and inversion of the chord, and the melody, the driving force of it, while Quazo sings nothing but harmony, no counter melody or response that is his own idea. The way the music makes it clear that Frollo has complete control over him is just a fun bit of composition.
As a little kid, this was hands down my favorite Disney movie, maybe even kids movie in general. It was an awesome intro to a lifetime interest in religious history (I grew up in a secular house). Something about it taking place in a real location with believable characters made me wonder what other insane stories existed out there that actually happened. I loved the drama, the tragedy, everything. It's dark but it still has the level of accessibility to be understood by a 7 year old
You're absolutely right but parents of this generation are so fragile about that kinda thing now that children movies now are so morbidly sugar coated to hide the dark side of the real world
@@irrose1185And previous generations were any better? Remember the Satanic Panic, people accusing others of being Satan worshippers left and right? Remember when stuff like D&D, Metal Music, Pokemon, etc, were all banned in a ton of households because it was "satanic." Come off it. Previous generations were equally as sensitive if not more sensitive than those of today.
It's also heartbreaking how detailed all of Quasi's carvings are of everyone else and yet his own is just roughed in.
WOW
Yeah, I thought same
I feel like the in-character motivations are likely two-fold, 1) he has been made to hate and be afraid of his own body to the point that he doesn’t want to spend the time paying attention to his appearance to make it accurate and doesn’t want to create something “ugly” by representing himself too accurately, and 2) Frollo has likely explicitly informed him that his name means “half-formed”, so he has internalized that he is in some way “half” of what other people are, therefore however much time he spent on the other carvings, he should only spend half as much on his own so that he accurately represents his own incomplete form.
I grew up with a parent that constantly called me ugly and fat, even when I wasn’t.
Now I’m 40-years-old, went no contact with her a few years ago, but I still have such bad dysmorphia that I don’t really have a concept for what I look like.
Sometimes I look in the mirror and my face looks significantly changed from the last time. Like my forehead takes up literally half my face, or one time while brushing my teeth, my front teeth looked crooked and overlapping each other. I spent all day trying to hide my smile, and it didn’t occur to me that my teeth wouldn’t change that much overnight until I was eating dinner. I checked in the mirror and they looked normal (which for me is a slight gap in the middle).
I minored in art in college and any time I was assigned a self portrait, I did everything I could to distort it because I knew it wouldn’t look like me since I wasn’t sure what I look like.
I would do a cubist self portrait, or do one with my hands over my face, etc.
Anyway, I relate very much to Quasi’s roughed out self-portrait. It makes sense that his mental image of himself is nebulous.
@@Annie_Annie__ Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and some people are just blind to it. Further, I think that if you're beautiful on the inside, it shines through and makes you beautiful on the outside too. You are definitely a beautiful soul, and though I don't know what you look little, I bet you're just plain beautiful. Stay strong and be well. ❤
When I was a kid I remember not seeing Frollo as such a bad villain… turns out my parents (especially my dad) were quite emotionally and verbally abusive and a lot of the things Frollo says could be a direct quote from my parents 🙃
Same :)
oof
In the original book frollo was a sorta okay parent figure untel he met esmeralda. (He lost his brother and that's why he's hard on Quasimodo).
Good thing you realized your personal history was negative
Oof I pray that you are healed from that and know that you are loved by God andif you don't believe in him by me and by others as well
The Hellfire Scene always makes my skin crawl too, but I love it for that very reason. Because that evil exists in everyone and its all our own fault, but the point of this scene is that Frollo won't accept that part of himself and so he blames it on the innocent target of his lust. Frollo is scary because his lust is intertwined with hatred and spite. He exhibits four of the seven deadly sins. Lust, Envy, Wrath, and most of all Pride. The reason Pride is the worst is because it opens the door to all the others.
Frollo is absolutely one of the most sinister Disney villains, and I'm here for it. The Hunchback is truly a master in storytelling.
I love the Latin in his villain song. It is in first person, as though they are the thoughts Frollo is ignoring as he convinces himself.
"Mea Culpa" = I am culpable
"Mea maxima culpa" = I am entirely to blame
As a fun parallel, the "banned" song from Sweeney Todd that Judge Turpin sings also uses these same phrases and also similarly is a battle between his perceived self-righteousness and his own diseased sense of insatiable lust.
The latin in the back is actually a version of the Act of Contrition, a prayer Catholics (which Frollo is, to my great displeasure) say to ask God for forgiveness.
The Latin throughout the whole film is great. When Quasimodo is breaking free of his chains, the choir sings “libera me, domine,” which means “free me, Lord”.
“Kyrie eleison” - God have mercy.
The only thing where the singer’s text matches the Latin
Yes! I wrote an essay on the music in this movie a few years ago and came to comment the same thing. I also think it’s interesting to compare the hooded background voices to the other parts of the movie that reference “the eyes of Notre Dame”. All the subtle references to an onlooking higher power are super cool to me and just really reinforces that the only one Frollo is fooling is himself. I had never seen it as Frollo’s subconscious guilt though. That adds another layer of complexity that I just love seeing in this movie!
As a Christian myself, I'm glad y'all took the time to make this, and I'm glad I watched. It's so important to recognize when we may be using our faith to justify all sorts of judgmental or possibly abusive behavior.
I think of this as people who read Romans 1… and don’t read Romans 2.
As a Christian Catholic (cue the Crusades and Spanish Inquisition in the background), I approve of this message
The play of HoND has a much less mustache-twirling and more grounded version of Frollo. He's a much more believable and banal villain than the Disney adaptation, which makes him much more terrifying.
Because the crusades were apparently too subtle?
I'm Catholic too and I hate when people use religion or faith to either justify or perpetrate their evil. Or when people hide behind religion and use it as a cloak so that other won't suspect them. It can really take away from how wonderful spiritualty and God can be. And I get how it can turn people off.
God Help the Outcasts is one of my favorite Disney songs of all time. I adore that this unchristian woman, deemed as “wicked”, not only values compassion and generosity and selflessness but exemplifies it as well. She is literally trapped, threatened with death, just got creeped on, and she says “I’m okay, please help those less fortunate than me.” Her prayer is so beautifully selfless and such a contrast with Frollo, whose song also includes something of a prayer - but he prays for the destruction of his enemies and the fulfillment of his own desires
I absolutely love the Hellfire song. I think it's very introspective for a disney movie that goes beyond normal tropes of disney songs like self confidence and self worth etc. Frollo, even though he's completely twisted in his reasoning and logic, is having such an existential crisis about something like sex and attraction that you feel his panic and paranoia surrounding it as well. I think a lot of people, especially if you grow up in that kind of religious environment, topics of lust and desire are really scary to confront. And as a plus, the animation makes my jaw drop every time.
Esmeralda is beautiful, but I feel that's not really why Frollo is attracted to her. Everything for him has to do with power, and his position allows him to lord over almost everyone, except for her. Which is why he always compares Esmeralda to fire because she seems to be an uncontrollable force that cannot be tamed. He views her as a challenge and that's why he is so infatuated by her. He wants to control her and that's why that song where he reveals his true intentions towards her feels all the more icky and gross because he thinks he loves her because that's the closest thing to "love" he ever feels, yet doesn't choose to realize how twisted his true intentions truly are.
Which is why he is open to either enslaving her to him through marriage or to burning her at the stake as a witch for causing him to sin.
Exactly!! I think that's part of the reason why Esmeralda is portrayed as a fire or flame. Fire is one of those few things that we as humans have very little control over. She is the literal embodiment of his lack of control over the world and himself.
He is bound by rules laws society and religion
But esmeralda is free lively and beautifully dancing around and singing full of love and faith...
@@cmbaz1140 he doesn't really seem to be bound by rules, just the ones he chooses to follow to further his cause.
I think what he truly finds interesting is how esmeralda is the complete opposite of him. He's interested in her like a hunter interested in their prey. It's just a power play or a game of chase for him.
And you know that if he were to manage completely breaking and enslaving esmeralda to him, he would loose his obsession towards her.
Another reason why Frollo is so obsessed with Esmerelda is because she is the first person to openly defy him. He tells her not to free Quasimodo, and she immediately does exactly what he said not to.
As a judge, Frollo is used to being obeyed without question, regardless of whether what he said is right or just. Yes, Phoebus and Quasimodo eventually disobey him as well, but Esmerelda is the first, and she does so in a very bold and public way.
he is driven by lust
What makes Frollo scary is that he is real. There are MANY people exactly like him in real life, both in religion and outside of it. But men like him tend to gravitate towards religion because it is the perfect, ready-made manipulation package.
Even as a Christian myself, I hate how easy it is for people like frolo to take control of churches and the people who attend them
This is so true
Absolutely. I have met Frollos, some nascent and some fully-formed, and you can tell they are going down that path with the way they talk about their beliefs.
One of the worst parts is that they also encourage others to think like they do
It is the same thing that happened with Harry Potter and Dolores Umbridge. We know that Voldemort is a genodice and far worse thatn her, but how many genocides do you find on a daily basis? In your life time? But people like Dolores you finde at least one in each school you attend. The same with Frollo: you find them regularly, and any of them can be as dangarous as him.
I never understood who read the book and decided "hmm this will make a great kids' movie." And yes I know original fairy tales were dark but they did not have these adult themes.
Even so it was always one of my favorites growing up and Esmeralda is truly the most underrated Disney heroine to me. As an adult I can understand why it resonated so much with me and it's even more disturbing.
Even the fairytales they used for things like the Disney Princess movies were still meant for children to some extent. Hunchback of Notre Dame was NEVER intended for children to any degree which makes it that much stranger of a choice for a kids movie
Umm??? Original Sleeping Beauty fairy tale involved the peasant girl getting raped by the king (who was married btw) while in an enchanted sleep? Who thought that would make a great kid's movie?
Esmeralda is amazing. She’s a woman of the night and dances for money, but she isn’t presented as less than worthy.
@@themisheika That is one version out of many. Very unfortunate it exists, but it's not the original version. It's not even the earliest source for the story, I think.
@@hkskh70040 What does it matter during the age of oral tradition storytelling? It's still a version and very likely the most famously known one at that, so.
17:02 yes. they absolutely should have. The point of art is to make you feel things, think about things, re-contextualize yourself and your life.
The reason you reacted so strongly is because they succeeded.
It's a shame that while they were talking about Hellfire that they didn't mention the part of his internal struggle where he sings "it's not my fault." The voices around him are showing him fighting about how he knows he's wrong by telling him that it is his fault in Latin.
I did enjoy looking up the latin lyrics throughout this movie. The attention to detail is spectacular
On the surface, Hellfire looks like a villain who is plotting the next part of his scheme and how he uses his power to get his way (Frollo musing his plans in his home), but on a deeper level, you can see his inevitable demise as the fire is so close to taking him, blaming everyone else for his "problems" when it is his actually his own fire that will burn him.
And you can just also see that in the end his kind of being is basically heritage of other people being like this to him in a way or another (in this case most possibly the cleric or some religious authority in his life). At some point in young age he must've been taught incredible ammounts of fear and guilt or rather witnessed harsh punishment on others that didn't behave certain ways, cause when the red capes appear he's almost like a scared child. No one that's at peace with themselves needs to put down others so much in such a cruel way, so he himself must have rather been in the same position, or taught to look others down for not abiding to "righteous behaviour".
Yes, it's a Catholic chant, meaning "my fault, my fault, my greatest fault". (Which I think means a part of Frollo's conscience _knows_ deep down he's to blame.) The chorus also sings "God have mercy" in Greek when Frollo sings the line, God have mercy on her.
I thought the same thing! “Mea culpa” and “mea maxima culpa” mean “my fault”, and “my greatest fault”… it’s almost like the monks there are the tattered remains of his conscience accusing him, and he’s trying to convince himself it’s not his fault to maintain his pride.
I'm an ex-evangelical and a conversion therapy survivor. Spiritual abuse and sexual shame/repression are two things I'm all too familiar with. This has always been my favorite Disney movie. I love that Disney actually went there and depicted these topics.
I’m an ex Mormon and I totally feel you!
How do you feel about Disney falling apart right now because the masses dislike what they're pushing?
@@WackyEncapsulatedFruitCup Sad but it's also their own doing :) Disney was a huge part of my childhood.
@@WackyEncapsulatedFruitCup Dude, Disney is doing just fine. So much so they just gave tiny d a great big FU
@@WackyEncapsulatedFruitCup pushing? wdym?
I grew up in a cult, and while I've always acknowledged the religious elements in this movie and how I related to it, you all literally spelled out letter for letter how I relate to Quasimodo and the abuse he dealt with from Frolo. This is one of my top favorite movies of all time, it always brings tears to my eyes. I don't know how I just came across this video, but I am realizing again how much I need therapy due to what I went through in the church. It's just figuring out where to go at this point.
Hearing her yell Justice makes me smile, I love this movie so much. I want to rewatch it, I haven't seen it in years. The best part is all the symbolism in this movie, there's so much and I love it.
Something I've always found interesting is during hellfire when Frollo is wrapping Esmerelda's scarf around his wrists like cuffs. It's almost like a metaphor for how Esmerelda is trapping him, but he's doing it himself. He's just using her as a scapegoat for his lustful thoughts. Idk if that was the intent behind it, but I like to think so.
Great observation, I bet you're correct. Animation is generally very deliberate and the film was very thoughtfully created
@@ItsAsparageese😊 👏👏👏
🙂🥲☺️🙂👍 👉
I love that point, there's a lot of symbolism in this movie
I've never really thought of it like that, but that is a awesome theory!
As a Romani it took me a few days to gather the energy to watch this. This movie is like being re-traumatised all over again. Frollo's beliefs and actions are not uncommon even to this day.
Here’s a hug! 🫂 I am with you!
❤
It's heartbreaking how often Romani are still treated so poorly.
🫂 for you ❤️
I didnt know that, that's disgusting. Im sorry there are still so many people out there like that :hug:
I never figured it out until like just now (because I’m an idiot) but when Frollo is about to attempt to burn Esmeralda, he’s in all black and flamboyant robes and she’s in a simple white dress (I know it’s underclothing which has another layer of meaning but stay with me). It’s a reference to his pride and tainted soul and her own moral purity and goodness
15:28 They forgot to mention at this part God is actually answering Frollo's prayer by removing Esmeralda from the equation. Once he no longer had her in his custody he doubled down meaning he didn't mean a single word of his remorse and went right back to trying to posses her again.
This line went over my head when I was a kid, but it brings tears to my eyes when I listen to it as an adult: “I thought we all were the children of God.”
"God Help the Outcasts" is a seriously underrated Disney song. It's amazing.
@paulchapman8023 gorgeous song 💖🎵
@@meganrogers3571 yes, when I was i child and still believie in God I used this song as a prayers
Oh, Quasi yelling "Sanctuary!" really gets to me as it mirrors his own mother crying out for sanctuary at the beginning of the movie.
Its definitely one of my favorite parts. Another is when the puppeteer asks "who is the monster and who is the man?" Genius writing.
Yes! I always get a little teary at that part
So epic and poignant
omg you're right!! Never noticed that (and it's my favorite Disney movie, too!), thanks for pointing it out!
Frollo is the best villain Disney has ever brought to the big screen simply because people like him are the most likely to actually exist.
23:14 in french Quasimodo says "droit d'asile" which is so powerful. This scene always gives me chills.
What’s that means?
Rest in peace, Tony Jay. He created such a loathsome villain in Frollo, and made you love to hate him. On top of that, he has arguably one of the best Villain Songs to come out of the Disney Canon.
Frollo? Please. His true greatest role was Megabyte from ReBoot.
He was probably a lovely guy irl most people who play terrible people are.
@@Ninja07Keaton Frolo and Esmeralda or Megabyte and dot.
He also was the narrator for treasure planet and teen titans 2003 for starfires tameranian puberty story.
Tony Jay was great indeed. I unknowingly stumbled on him thanks to the 1993 Tom and Jerry movie, where he plays Lickboot ("We've got to have... Moneeeeeyy!"). I still enjoy that movie, flawed as it was 😅
Speaking of the tonal problems with the gargoyles, I love what they did with them in the stage version. Not only are they quite destinctly Quasimodo's imagination there (the gargoyles never interact with anyone or anything besides Quasimodo), they are also not exclusively played for cheap laughs there. In fact, they serve both as narrators and to give the audience a little insight into Quasimodo's internal thoughts and feelings - including his sad, frightened or angry thoughts. In fact at the very end of the play, when Quasimodo finally turns against Frollo, Frollo tries to calm him down/manipulate him by saying: "You don't want to hurt me." and all the gargoyles just whisper in unison: "Yes, you do!". It gave me legit shivers when I watched that.
Also in one rendition Quasimodo is played by a deaf actor who signs and one of the gargoyles interprets for him
@@alittlebithailey5994 Yes! I've seen a clip of that. Such a genius idea.
They're more like a greek chorus in the play and that really gels well
They actually don't interact with anybody but Quasimodo in this movie either.
This sounds like a very dark version of Inside out.
12:52-13:13: THANK YOU! I rarely see grown men understanding this concept and as a woman, just watching this part made me tear up. Thank you, Jonathan and Alan, from the bottom of my heart!
The moment he says sanctuary, I get chills every time
Thanks for covering this movie - it's deeply underrated.
Frollo is the most terrifying villian to me because there're people in real life like him.
You're welcome! Thanks for watching!
Definitely, it's always been my fave !
I dunno friend…that whale in Pinocchio was pretty effective at keeping my *on the beach* as a child and outta the water 😅🐳
If Disney makes a live action version of the movie Christopher Lee would make a great Frollo
@@gabriellagalli8564 He died a few years ago though, he would've made an awesome Frollo though !
I’ve noticed a couple of times where people that praise and compliment “Hellfire” often don’t discuss “Heaven’s Light” with the same level of praise because it isn’t as big or grandiose in comparison, but I think part of why I love both is because they are essentially the same song but told in different perspectives. They are two sides of the same coin: a song that defines the emotional change Esmeralda has inspired in each of them. However, the difference is that Quasimodo is appreciative of her compassion and kindness and simply hopes on a chance that she might care for him the way he does for her, while Frollo pins the blame of his perceived sinful desires on her and believes that his solution is to either claim her as his own or kill her. This builds up to Quasimodo’s biggest act (in my opinion) of the story: accepting that Esmeralda doesn’t love him romantically, but still values the love and compassion in their friendship. Quasimodo respects Esmeralda’s autonomy and her as a person, but Frollo would rather die than let someone else be in her romantic life.
Absolutely correct, it's a very good parallel.
(Also highly recommend this cover ruclips.net/video/VUu_E2et6xg/видео.html of them both)
Heaven's Light is absolutely the other side of the coin, and the songs are one track in the album.
I love that neither representation of Esmeralda is accurate though. To Quasi she's an angel, to Frollo she's a devil. But the truth is neither, and Phoebus is actually the one who sees her as strong, vulnerable, hot, independent, and immediately as an equal, all at the same time.
I'm glad to hear the contrast between Hell Fire and Heaven's Light from folks. I always contrasted Hell Fire with God Bless the Outcast. Contrasting Frollo's possessive, self-righteous nature with Esmeralda's humility and selflessness.
I love how Frollo's and Quasimodo's songs are counterparts to each other. They also do the same thing early in the movie when Frollo sings "In Here" and as soon as he leaves Quasimodo sings "Out There".
Frollo might be the worst villain, but he has the best disney villain song. A small language easter egg in it is when the chorus says "Mea Culpa" and "Mea Maxima Culpa" they are singing (in latin, which is a language all church officials had to learn) "My fault" and, "I have failed" or "My greatest mistake". The chorus knows the truth, even if Frollo doesnt
I love how the choir contradicts Frollo with "mea culpa" and "mea māxima culpa" ("it's my fault" and "my biggest fault" in Latin) when he starts shifting the blame.
As a Christian I've always found this film to be so incredibly beautiful and moving. I have been blessed to be raised around fellow Christians who actually can admit out loud that there has been so much wrong and evil done in the name of Christianity and recognize how much hurt is still going on. It's very difficult to know that there are so many victims out there who can't help but associate us with others who Identify as Christians but are so fundamentally different from who we are and our morals and beliefs. AND, we can recognize that there is good and beauty that can come from other religions and cultures and non beliefs and science as well.
That is very educational, Amanda.
John doesn’t seem to specific when he says he’s religious. What do you think?
@@chrisjackson1889 I think he mentioned elsewhere that he's a christian (possibly the Firefly video, but I'm not sure), but it seems he's deliberately not being specific so as to not preoccupy the discourse here with specific religious debates (as will so often happen).
Thank you so much for speaking this out loud.
@@chrisjackson1889 he's said as a straight white Christian man, he has made friends from all walks of life, all religions, sexualities, etc. And he has benefitted from it. So he's a Christian
That makes you a rarity. Most abrahamites I've known were some shade of Frollo.
The least overt ones being the most subversive and insidious. And effective at manipulating others.
The scene of Quasimodo breaking the chains and having this absolutely feral expression on his face as they fell from his shoulders puts me in mind of something I learned a long time ago. While kindness and compassion should rule as the norm, there are times you have to embrace the inner monster. We all have a little darkness inside and, if used properly, it can serve us well in dire situations. There's a time and place for righteous fury.
It's fitting that in a movie filled with religious themes and imagery, that scene always puts me in mind of Samson bringing down the building on the Philistines in the Book of Judges. One of my favorite sequences in all of the Disney Canon.
@@AviRox1154 - This difference being that Quasimodo was freeing himself to save a life, while Samson was collapsing a building to to murder 3000 people out of spite. The former is a hero. The latter is not.
I agree. All emotions have a purpose, but they need to be used correctly. Anger, when used correctly, can keep you safe and stop you from being taken advantage of.
@@oakenshadow6763 - Exactly. It's been said by me and the hosts, there are no bad emotions. However unpleasant some may be, like sadness and anger, they all serve a purpose. It's just a question of do you use them or let them use you. Every emotion can either be constructive or destructive depending on how it's utilized.
Yup, he basically went "Ok Frollo, You want a monster? I'll give you a monster" kinda vibes. Its been a while since I've seen the movie, didnt remember much this scene and now that I saw it I love that he somehow looks like a superhero
This is my favorite Disney animated movie. As a child I grew up listening to the soundtrack on repeat. I understood little of the context, but I was completely enchanted. I didn't watch the movie itself until I was older, 13 or 14 I think, and it was an amazing experience to know every note of music playing behind such a beautifully dark and powerful story. This year, my 4yo daughter saw a picture of Quasimodo and wanted to know what the movie was. I was hesitant to show her, since she is young and it's much darker than her typical princess movies she likes. But I decided to watch it with her, and I was in tears as she asked me such deep questions, about why the people were throwing things at Quasimodo, and about why Frollo said the things he said. It is not her fave and she may not watch it again till she's older, but she asks to listen to the songs every day and I am happy to oblige! And every time, we revisit those themes: how normal people can be "bad guys" and treat people who are different badly because they don't take the time to love them and get to know them. How someone like Frollo is NOT following what Jesus truly taught, even though he tries to say he is. I'm grateful I can have these talks with my child. It's not a movie I would ever recommend you let kids watch alone. But it IS a very important movie, I think. Especially for those of us who are Christians, and need to recognize and teach our children to recognize and CALL OUT abusive and toxic behavior when we see it.
And the real tragedy of Frollo, and this is a lot clearer both in the novel and in the stage version where Frollo isn’t so one dimensional and cartoonishly evil, is throughout all this he does actually love Quasimodo, and thinks he’s doing the right thing
Something that's especially cool is how Quasimodo in Heaven's Light refers to Esmeralda as an angel, whereas Frollo immediately after refers to her as a witch in Hellfire. They both view her and deal with their attraction to her in such different ways!
(Also, as someone who's ace, thank you for your acknowledgement, it really means a lot)
I don’t know if you know, but Heavenly light//Hellfire are accualy one song on CD with music from this film. Also it shows that both Frollos and Quasimodos points of view were wrong. Esmeralda in the end choses to be with Phoebus, who sees her as human beeing, both as a friend and lover.
@@Thimbrethil Yup! I know! That's actually what got me thinking about this in the first place -- they were reacting to Hellfire and I was like, "Wait they skipped the other part of this song duo" lmao. I love the fact that Esmeralda just ended up being friends with Quasi -- you're so right that Phoebus actually sees her as a PERSON
@@Thimbrethil The makes sense why they end up together then. I was thinking Quasi ought to end up with Esmerelda. But she can't live up the standard of being an angel.
I know some people disliked that Quasimodo and Esmerelda weren't a couple in the end but I think it makes the most sense how the movie handled it. He saw her as an angel, Frollo as a witch or a demon, but the most important moment to prove himself different from Frollo was to see her as a *person* instead of a *possession* and let her make her own choices.
@@MegaChickenfish that’s why I like it too. It also helps Quasi find an identity beyond the good/evil self image and start to see himself as a human. Esmeralda & Phoebus was the start but standing up for himself and the town embracing him for Quasi to finally accept himself fully. It’s a prime example of early recovery from abuse and negative conditioning.
I will ALWAYS die on the hill that Frollo’s the best villain because he’s real life. He doesn’t need magic or an evil sidekick to help him be a horrible person-he just is because of his religious beliefs. And that has been seen over and over again in human history. It’s simple, yet frightening and horrid.
I will die on that hill with you! Frollo is so relatable, whereas most Disney villains aren't. I mean, come on, how many people can relate to an evil sorcerer trying to steal our genie lamp, or an evil sea witch who literally steals our voice? Not very many!
But, how many people can relate to being afraid of/controlled by an abusive parental figure? Or being the victim of a religious leader who uses their authority to justify religious and/or spiritual abuse? So many people can relate to that! Frollo is realistic and scary because almost everyone knows or has heard of someone like him.
@@aubreycarter7624 Absolutely right! Even as an adult, Frollo freaks me out to no end. The other villains are meh because they aren’t realistic since they’re magical.
I will join you on the hill.
As someone who has religious trauma, I agree with you that Frollo is the most realistic and believable and that’s what makes him terrifying. Another Disney villain, who is similar to Frollo is Emperor Belos from The Owl House, a fantastic show that I highly recommend watching.
Gaston also is frightening because we all know a "nice guy" like him.
Actually in the book, Frollo is a bishop, in making him a corrupt judge in the film allows them to make him so depraved without pointing the finger at the ENTIRE church. And I think that rules.
Frollo terrified me as a child more than any other villain. Watching it as an adult made my skin crawl even more, but the original version is far, far more morbid. I won't spoil it but...yeah it's dark. Dear lord lol
I just LOVE when Quasi screams Sanctuary. It's a satisyfying and beautiful full circle to when his mother called out for the same, but to the wrong person 💔
I also think it’s interesting that Quasi is calling sanctuary in itself. He isn’t turning away from the church, he is embracing the church and the safety it offers. He’s just turning away from Frollo. I think it’s a good lesson in separating the good from the bad, along with many other lessons in that movie
The fact that it was ultimately a prison for his whole life... but he still claims sanctuary when he sees in another what he should have seen in himself all along. Beautiful
My favorite part about hellfire is that as the song progresses, he goes from blaming Esmeralda to blaming God himself for his sins and lust, and is even given a chance of redemption by having the guard tell him she’s escaped and asking if they should get her (overshadowed by light like how god might give a sign) and yet he STILL chooses to burn down Paris because he’s so far gone in his own ways and mind
I am a big fan of cinema therapy and I love your work on this series. Since we have done a villain therapy on frollo, can we PLEASE do a psychology of a hero on Esmerelda? She is a fantastic example of a hero and I think, one of the more underrated characters in the Disney pantheon. Keep up the great work guys! :D
The final blow in no longer following Christianity was a Frollo in my own life, preaching bigotry and hate from the altar. It means a lot to see someone I respect and admire understanding those of us who are disillusioned while having a strong faith himself. Thank you for understanding us, Jonathan, and for approaching the topic in such a beautiful way.
You are very welcome. Thank you for making my day with your comment 😊
I mean the irony in that thought process though is you’re leaving the religion because of people who don’t really believe and live out the religion in their lives. So you’re turning away from the religion because of those who don’t live it out. Don’t leave Jesus because of Judas. It’s a mistake many make.
@MrMustang13 leave them be.
If the church isn't preaching the word of Jesus, then what good does it do to be part of the church? If you really believe in following Jesus, then being a good and caring human should be more important to you than clinging to the label of Christianity.
@@helenanilsson5666 To be fair, one of the key ideas mentioned in the NT post-Gospels is the ecclesia -- the assembly, or church, of Christ. Both His Body and His Bride, the Church (not individual buildings btw) is seen as the symbol for all those who try and follow Him.
This means that you cannot perform Christianity isolated from others. That of course means that your beliefs should materialize in love and care for all humans, esp. the marginalized, but also implies that your beliefs are to be shared with others. Most traditional forms of Christianity actually emphasize the sacraments, that can only be performed between more than one person.
I think what helps is finding a community of believers that resonate with your theology (and is biblically reasonable to your conscience). In fact, a strong community can encourage each other to follow Jesus better.
The sequence when Quasimodo breaks the chains is so full of symbolism. Putting aside the obvious imagery of him literally breaking the chains and coming out of darkness into light, the shots of the church crumbling and the bells echoing makes it feel like the building itself is coming to life and unleashing its own wrath. The music really cements that idea in too, with the church choir getting louder and faster. Such a great moment.
Doesn't matter how many times I watch it, that scene fully gets me every single time. The score with the choir and the Latin lyrics are just perfection.
One part of the score in that scene is literally a Catholic prayer for the captive, "Salutaris Hostia".
Oooh, I like that! I love the idea that even the church building itself knows Frollo is evil and wants to help Quasimodo
“Silence!”
“Justice!”
Gets me every time.
Thank you for adressing the topic of spirtual and religious abuse. It's a topic that is often glossed over and one of great importance.
Now go see the musical version which came out after the movie, it’s much closer to the book and Frollo is back to being the Archdeacon (As Hugo writes).
Your comments about the gargoyles is spot on in the musical, they are his ”friends” who are “made of stone.”
Also in the end…there is a lot of death.
As a child, I loved this movie and still do. Being a girl and often blamed for the bad behavior of boys towards me and my female friends, being raised in the dichotomy of either being a saint or a witch, being taught that a good child has to basically be quiet and don't cause trouble I deeply felt for Esmeralda and Quasimodo. "Do as I say, obey!" is something that still gives me chills. I always read the gargoyles as Quasi's imaginary friends. Thanks for your take on this.
The what Madonna/Whore complex. It's why Esmeralda chooses Phoebus. Frollo sees her as a temptress while Quasi idolized her. Neither see her for who she is. Phoebus did.
I loved this movie as well when I was young! I always felt like I was trapped in my own tower like Quasimodo was and seeing him break his chains from abuse was always so empowering to me.
i honestly think it's irresponsible NOT to let kids watch movies like these. there's nothing explicit but the story of how bad people cloak themselves in righteousness. that's an essential lesson for a child.
@@inkonsistency Yes, this! I really hope you escaped your tower!
@@thra-x1855 Yeah you're right, I absolutely agree. It is such an important lesson and as parents, you can help them through the parts of the movie that might a bit scary.
As someone who grew up in a religious household, this movie stuck with me. More than that, being a person of color, it was even more haunting considering how often we have been demonized but still lusted after by our oppressors throughout history.
As a women* no need to add your skin tint as an excuse when theres already layers of abuse in history
@@celiadennis217 but skin colour is a huge layer. Sorry that makes you uncomfortable, but its true.
@@celiadennis217 Skin tone DOES matter when speaking about women’s abuse throughout history because women of color in specific were treated as less than objects and could used, bought, traded, and raped at will, and there was nothing to be done. Not even “compassionate” institutions like the church would protect women of color from these heinous crimes like they might have done with a white woman. It DOES matter and it NEEDS to be acknowledged.
@@owenleal Not uncomfortable just stating a fact. The people that feel the need to add their skin tint (because thats all that skinn color is) to add more of an excuse seem to be uncomfortable or have validation issues. Facts dont care about your feelings
@Celia Dennis I'm sure they are talking about esmeralda and how frollo thinks she's a filthy gyspy yet has that whole song dedicated to how he really feels about her. The lust for "foreign and exotic" women is a very real and has nothing to do with feelings. What happened in the movie simply wouldn't have happened if she was just another lady in the town, with the same religion and ethnicity as the rest.
I wanted to ask if you could do a video on Avatar the last Air bender but specifically on the characters Zuko and Azula? About how the siblings that experienced the same abusive household came out differently? I think that it would make a good video going over nature and nurture and the effects of abuse.
I’m just imagining the guards being like: “He’s talking to the fireplace again!” 😅😂
I really love this as a kid’s movie.
As someone raised by an abusive parent, I loved this movie growing up. I understood the themes, I felt comforted by how dark it was, because I saw that darkness in my day to day life. Children see this cruelty, they can understand it. Movies like this helped me feel less alone as a child
This was my favorite Disney movie growing up, I feel
I liked this movie a lot as a kid too
This was my favorite growing up too.
The entirety of Hellfire is packed with so much symbolism and visual metaphors that it really adds to Frollo's inner monologue and feelings. It's another reason why he'll always be my favourite Disney villain. Also Tony Jay's voice acting is *chefs kiss*
It's very ironic how the song, as a prayer, is addresses to Maria. It really shows how the Christian ideology (and other religions as well, but we're talking about that one) saw women either as saints, or the primal cause of sin in men. That's not unique to Frollo, it was the common mentality back then, and it's a dichotomy that is very clear in the Old Testament.
@Juls C. Ah yes, the classic Madonna/ Whore complex. As old as time itself.
@@julsc.4518 the idea of the Virgin Mary is kind of the origin of Purity culture. Mary is a Saint because she never had sex, whereas Esmeralda must be evil because she awakens his sexuality.
I really don't think I'll ever see this movie again without crying because been there, done that, I think I'm gonna cry now fully.
Thanks for the great video though ❤
Tony Jay was such an amazing voice actor. His voice talent is iconic and will always be remembered.
Tony Jay Was a great actor and a good singer too 1996 was a great year for him