Of course 'purists' will immediately say as a criticism that you've just made strips of high-quality plywood, as if that is somehow a violation of the true spirit of luthiery and woodworking in general. I say that wood is already a glued composite in its natural state and your method is a way to take full advantage of its natural structural properties while maximizing cost efficiency and minimizing waste of a limited resource. Love your work man!
Thanks for your supportive comment. I suppose there are purists out there who would frown on my approach but they haven't come forward yet. should they, I guess I'd have to suggest that they compare a Model A Ford to any new vehicle that choose and contemplate the value of new ideas.
Very interesting! I applaud your practical instincts! After the braces are glued in place I presume you carve them down narrowing the top producing a more triangular section. At least that is what I do on my ukuleles and in Triangle NY I would expect the same…. If the center of the laminate sandwich is maple and the outer parts are cedar it would appear a large fraction of the tall brace center is maple. The cedar provides nice stable feet for glueing, and some weight reduction, but minimal stiffness as it is no longer tall. As bending strength scales as thickness cubed you end up with the thin central maple core contributing the majority of the bending stiffness. Most of the cedar border (perhaps 75%) gets whittled away. Stiffness wise I would be tempted to try solid maple braces as it would only slightly heavier after I carved them. Yet I am tempted to try laminated braces as you make it look rather fun. Many thanks for thinking outside the box!
The maple does provide the vast majority of stiffness for sure. The outer laminates provide little more than gluing surface. I don't use a Maple brace simple because of the difficulty in carving it. It might be interesting to make a T-shaped brace to increase glueing surface, having a brace of Maple about 1/8" thick.
Thank you. I'm finally getting enough work completed to free up some time. It is very busy in the shop these days; guitars, cabinetry, repairs everywhere.
@thepragmaticluthier I would say a video on the order of operations when planning a first guitar, and building it. Not necessarily going into the how to, but a bullet point of, build mold, back, sides, this is when you want to do whatever. So someone who has never built a guitar can see it isn't that daunting as long as they have a process to fall back on. Oh and if you like, you can turn it into a build series and link the videos
I'm a recent subscriber & really enjoy your videos. I was taught to use spruce for the braces & in my classes that's what I've done. But now I'm home making a handful of ukuleles which don't demand a lot of strength. I'm using hickory with vertical grain because I've got a bunch that I've milled over the years. It's certainly harder to carve than spruce but aside from that, is there any disadvantage if used on a full sized guitar?
Hi Kevin, Great video. I'm interested in trying this out myself. For the 5/16 braces are the three plys all the same thickness or are the WRC plys thicker to give even more weight reduction? Why don't you use them on the top also? Thank you
I change the thickness of the brace layers and the hardwood specie to influence weight and stiffness. In a back, I'm much more concerned with stiffness than weight. I have never used the technique for bracing tops because I'm of the notion that laminated braces may over-stiffen a top. That's a theory, not a fact. I should try it sometime, especially with a real flexible top. Thanks for your comment:)
I'm trying to decide between buying a shaper or a router table. Is there any reason to buy a router table for building acoustic guitars (other than cost), or is a shaper as good or better for all operations? I know there's a speed difference. Is there any operation where I would need the higher speed of a router?
I'm the very strong opinion that a shaper is a much better investment because: it runs slower and is easier on bits, it runs more concentrically than a router, making it easier on bits, it is more powerful and much more versatile, it can drive router bits as well as shaper cutters, it is heavier and more stable, vibrating less. All of this equates to better accuracy, more longevity for the tool and its cutters. On the other hand, I do tool making, cabinet joinery, panel raising, cope and stick work, all of which will reduce most routers, router tables and bits to useless junk in just a few hours of operation. Lastly, NO cutter needs to spin at 20,000 plus RPM's, but router motors must in order to maintain torque.
@@thepragmaticluthier ! Thanks for the response -- i mean arched like Leafsprings and glued in the desired radius BEFORE being glued to the Back or Soundboard; They should be flexible in "thirds"
Of course 'purists' will immediately say as a criticism that you've just made strips of high-quality plywood, as if that is somehow a violation of the true spirit of luthiery and woodworking in general. I say that wood is already a glued composite in its natural state and your method is a way to take full advantage of its natural structural properties while maximizing cost efficiency and minimizing waste of a limited resource. Love your work man!
Thanks for your supportive comment. I suppose there are purists out there who would frown on my approach but they haven't come forward yet. should they, I guess I'd have to suggest that they compare a Model A Ford to any new vehicle that choose and contemplate the value of new ideas.
@@thepragmaticluthier Good morning and thanks for your supportive reply! And I've said this before but your shop is just fantastic.
thanks for your wealth of knowledge !
Very interesting! I applaud your practical instincts!
After the braces are glued in place I presume you carve them down narrowing the top producing a more triangular section. At least that is what I do on my ukuleles and in Triangle NY I would expect the same…. If the center of the laminate sandwich is maple and the outer parts are cedar it would appear a large fraction of the tall brace center is maple. The cedar provides nice stable feet for glueing, and some weight reduction, but minimal stiffness as it is no longer tall. As bending strength scales as thickness cubed you end up with the thin central maple core contributing the majority of the bending stiffness. Most of the cedar border (perhaps 75%) gets whittled away. Stiffness wise I would be tempted to try solid maple braces as it would only slightly heavier after I carved them.
Yet I am tempted to try laminated braces as you make it look rather fun.
Many thanks for thinking outside the box!
The maple does provide the vast majority of stiffness for sure. The outer laminates provide little more than gluing surface. I don't use a Maple brace simple because of the difficulty in carving it. It might be interesting to make a T-shaped brace to increase glueing surface, having a brace of Maple about 1/8" thick.
I like that idea and I'm going to try it on my next guitar - Great video!!!
Awesome video! Thank you so much for sharing.
Interesting idea. Thank you.
Great video as always. Good to see you!
Thank you. I'm finally getting enough work completed to free up some time. It is very busy in the shop these days; guitars, cabinetry, repairs everywhere.
Thanks!
You're very welcome. Is there a topic that you would like to suggest for another video?
@thepragmaticluthier I would say a video on the order of operations when planning a first guitar, and building it. Not necessarily going into the how to, but a bullet point of, build mold, back, sides, this is when you want to do whatever. So someone who has never built a guitar can see it isn't that daunting as long as they have a process to fall back on.
Oh and if you like, you can turn it into a build series and link the videos
Excellent
Thanks Mr. Kevin
great video thanks
Another great video! Thanks
Glad you enjoyed it!
I'm a recent subscriber & really enjoy your videos. I was taught to use spruce for the braces & in my classes that's what I've done. But now I'm home making a handful of ukuleles which don't demand a lot of strength. I'm using hickory with vertical grain because I've got a bunch that I've milled over the years. It's certainly harder to carve than spruce but aside from that, is there any disadvantage if used on a full sized guitar?
I see no disadvantage at all provided that you achieve what you want. Hickory has no physical properties that would cause one to question its use.
Maybe Ibeam construction would be stiffer and lighter? Ever considered?
The physics demonstrating the stiffness to weight ratio is certainly there, but I think for a back, it's splitting frog hair.
Hi Kevin, Great video. I'm interested in trying this out myself. For the 5/16 braces are the three plys all the same thickness or are the WRC plys thicker to give even more weight reduction? Why don't you use them on the top also? Thank you
I change the thickness of the brace layers and the hardwood specie to influence weight and stiffness. In a back, I'm much more concerned with stiffness than weight. I have never used the technique for bracing tops because I'm of the notion that laminated braces may over-stiffen a top. That's a theory, not a fact. I should try it sometime, especially with a real flexible top. Thanks for your comment:)
I'm trying to decide between buying a shaper or a router table. Is there any reason to buy a router table for building acoustic guitars (other than cost), or is a shaper as good or better for all operations?
I know there's a speed difference. Is there any operation where I would need the higher speed of a router?
I'm the very strong opinion that a shaper is a much better investment because: it runs slower and is easier on bits, it runs more concentrically than a router, making it easier on bits, it is more powerful and much more versatile, it can drive router bits as well as shaper cutters, it is heavier and more stable, vibrating less. All of this equates to better accuracy, more longevity for the tool and its cutters. On the other hand, I do tool making, cabinet joinery, panel raising, cope and stick work, all of which will reduce most routers, router tables and bits to useless junk in just a few hours of operation. Lastly, NO cutter needs to spin at 20,000 plus RPM's, but router motors must in order to maintain torque.
🤗🎶🎵
?!? Why-not just radius the Braces at the gluing stage
The braces need to be arched in advance of gluing and if they are all arched, one can glue all of the braces in one session at the go bar deck.
@@thepragmaticluthier ! Thanks for the response -- i mean arched like Leafsprings and glued in the desired radius BEFORE being glued to the Back or Soundboard; They should be flexible in "thirds"