What's your favourite V10 in terms of sound? - Taz. 👨🔧 Building a fast car? Get $400 OFF the all-inclusive VIP online course package deal:: hpcdmy.co/rodinv10 ✊50% OFF your first online engine building course. Enrol now: hpcdmy.co/rw3 TIME STAMPS: 0:00 - V10 V12 Nostalgia 0:20 - Mike Gartrell: Rodin Cars 0:30 - Why Design A New V10? 1:07 - What Did It Take? 1:58 - Neil Brown Engineering 2:17 - Design Process Simplification 2:30 - Engine Specs 3:05 - Volumetric Efficiency 4:10 - RPM Multiplier 4:28 - In House Machining 5:04 - Why? (Scale) 5:59 - 3D Printing & Casting 6:42 - What Is Vacuum Casting 7:12 - Why Cast Vs CNC Vs 3D Printing 7:48 - Initial Testing 8:26 - Sentura Packaging Restrictions 8:44 - Twin Turbo Plans 9:48 - Steel Lined Bore 10:17 - What Is Nikasil? 10:57 - Direct Injection 11:29 - Bosch Fuel System 12:06 - www.rodincars.com 12:10 - LOUD NOISES 12:50 - BUILD.TUNE.DRIVE
Favorite V10, in terms of sound? The Judd V10 in Ryan Tuerk's Formula Supra. As far as I know it's the only one of those engines with an X-pipe in the exhaust system, and nothing else sounds quite like it.
Still crushing interviews.. filling in exactly the little bits i wasn't 100% on. Still so well done guys.. detailed nerdy talk which is what i love, but made relatable.
A new player in the Judd and Cosworth arena. The tech and developpment look really interesting and the sound is always awesome with a high-strung V10. Big thumbs up and can't wait to see/hear more of Rodin Cars!
That car sounds very very nice and sounds like it has heaps more in it. Keep up the good work Rodin and go for it. I feel we are looking at a repeat of the start of mclaren. Huge gulp fulls of money invested this time around. I love it.
Dude. Wow. Best engine building content ever. I learned a metric shit ton of new information with this video. Great stuff. Keep it up.....And no garbage AI voiceovers or image generating....NICE! NA V10's are the peak of awesomeness!!!!
Pankl was making engine parts for the Audi works rally cars way back Along with the Lehman style manifold and all sorts of frictional coatings by Balzers in Litchenstien We think we’re pretty smart here in NZ Go to Europe and the depth of knowledge there is amazing
The UK is really where it's at for a crazy amount of knowledge within a relatively small geographical footprint, from F1 down. Of course there are always some outliers too 😎 - Taz.
Never forget the history you guys have down the road in Aus. Repco for a time, several sunsets ago were the engine supplier of choice, if you wanted to be competitive in Grand Prix, before that Duckworth turned up and made it very difficult. Great no bull interview, we can only wish them the best of luck with this very exiting project. What's the bets they end up with 12cyliders @ 4ltrs displacement😉
@@MasterChief37 Brabham was the only team that won a world championship with a Repco. Walter hassen of Coventry climax is reputed to have advised their clients to buy a Repco after the Coventry's succession from race engine manufacture at the time of the 3Ltr limit. The best they could do was a stretched FPF to 2.7 Ltrs of 4 cyls As a result many smaller teams using proprietary chassis fitted a Repco Marcos also used a one in the 1968 XP sports racer for Spa. It failed to finish because the alternator driven off the back of the box was soaked resulting in a failure to proceed. That's motor sport for you😔
@@gothicpagan.666 they didn’t supply other teams only Brabham. Brabham sold customer cars to other teams who raced them, these cars came with Repco engines. Only Brabham chassis used Repco engines in F1. It was rather quickly eclipsed Cosworth DFV.
@@MasterChief37 Paul Emery borrowed one to replace the early Martin engine that didn't work in his Emerson. One of the Italian counts used one to replace a broken Maser engine he used in the back of a Cooper, another had one in a F2 Cooper chassis when the V6 Ferrari engine failed. There were many f2 chassis fitted with bigger units just to get an entry in an event that payed much better. My dear old dad made a reasonable living from playing with toys
@@hpa101 Unfortunately, I do not. Perhaps they are represented at one of the big trade shows? But that would likely be in Europe given that they are based in Austria. That makes it unlikely that your paths are going to cross I suppose.
Ohhhh, that's good. It's got that F1 V10 sound but a little more raw, and obviously about 5k rpm short. I love that the reasoning for most of this endeavour seems to be "because I wanna"
I’d like to see pre-chamber initiated combustion become more of a thing. Definitely the way to go. Being able to burn more fuel and control a flame front is key. 🇦🇺🤜🏼🤛🏼😎🍀☮️☮️☮️
cool, saw and spoke to these guys briefly back at PRI 2023. somehow i missed that they were Kiwis (although i'm not surprised in the least that they ARE Kiwis). 🤙
This is for the purists with big pockets. Proud of them. Even doing part of this is hard in NZ, let alone the whole thing. Incredibly impressive vision and drive. I love it, but for me an LS platform doing similar or more power and torque for 20k range is far more enjoyable and to me sounds just as amazing in it's own way. Nikasil was developed in ~30s for Lister CS indirect injection diesel engines (the longest produced engine of all time, still in production today) and was what pushed their lifetimes further and further. 80k hour rebuilds on modern oil with that coating lmao. 5L per cylinder, 12hp in a twin at 650rpm and 90ftlbs. Weighs 750kg and will do that load all day, all night, all week without letting you down if you keep the oil happy. When it was truly Great Britain. How far it has fallen today.
Better know your craft before you talk to this interviewer, really knows his stuff. Man, in the media there's some real blockheads yammering on, but this was very informative and asked great questions.
Nickilsile is the 👌 👍 😍......no wear...less friction...its a carbide like coating that all you do to freshen up the engine is 600 grit sandpaper by hand in a criss cross motion in soapy water and blow dry and wipe with oil to deglase ...and a new set of rings and wham!!...... new engine 😊
Will be interesting to see how it all pans out price wise production wise, although selling them separately will be second to supplying them for their own vehicles I'm sure 🤘- Taz.
15:1 is standard i would say.. many hillclimb cars here are running 14-15:1, tho that is static CR and with big cams what you want to know is dynamic CR
@@exvilshow do you even overlap valves at that compression ratio? It makes all engines look the same. No matter if Diesel or gasoline, 4 valves from the top (almost no pentroof). Minimal overlap which VVT can set to zero for stable engine braking .
@@ArneChristianRosenfeldt dome will take care of CR, no vvti in any of those engine (one friend of mine only runs vtec and around 13.5:1). Also not every engine has wide valve angle, most narrow valve angle engines with high positioned intake port perform the best, and deeper valve reliefs is all you need. also example, 17.5-18:1 CR 1.9tdi 8v (stock thickest headgasket) will run 282° cam in stock form, although valve reliefs are recommended. There is also like 30cc volume in bowl of the piston.
@@exvils valve reliefs increase surface area, which is bad for heat insulation, but also turbulence “insulation”. We want turbulence to keep its energy from intake to mid flame front propagation. Slight reliefs in the firewall for the intake valves is what I accept. But then I also am a fan of a turbo and short intake to get air in right from the start of the intake stroke .
Having a design envelope of 110% VE and only being at 90% is WILD. That's exactly the kind of thing that would make a thousand horsepower STREETABLE N/A LS possible.
Great car. I'd like to know what fuel they use. Cossworth GMA 4.0 is a V12 street engine with 650BHP, it would be sure very interesting to see the comparison. Great video, thanks.
@@Shadowboost The T.50 engine is the GMA engine. It makes a little bit over 650bhp. It has a bigger brother for the Aston Martin hypercar, a 6,5l V12 with 1000bhp, a little bit over 200kg.
@@kledomuc1713 the T.50s is the track version of the T.50. It has a modified engine with no variable valve timing, no emissions devices, and 12 ITBs. It makes 770 hp and weighs 166 kg. It is DIFFERENT than the road car engine
Volumetric efficiency is theoretical mass x actual mass. Theoretically mass is the mass of air that would fill the same volume as the cylinder displaces. Having 110% is news to me. I’m assuming it’s a ram air design of some sort
Not necessarily ram air and only ram air. Here's a quick piece on pressure waves and ITBs -www.hpacademy.com/technical-articles/trumpet-length-and-its-effect-on-torque/ The great cam control we have these days is important too. This is also a quick thread on the topic: www.hpacademy.com/technical-articles/trumpet-length-and-its-effect-on-torque/ Hope that helps @Lnmoto86 and @Shadowboost. There is some more on it in the forum too 🤘 - Taz.
Considering their logo, which is clearly The Thinker by the artist Rodin, it should actually be pronounced Rodan. Like the giant pterodactyl monster from Godzilla. Which is much better.
When? Since the beginning of time. Welcome to the English language, it's 100+ dialects and constant evolution 😂 - Taz. ruclips.net/video/ObkJNstaog8/видео.html
Yeah that's a nice V12. Guess you'd hope the 2 extra cylinders would be worth the effort compared to a V10 in some way eh. Without data, all you have is an opinion regarding the reliability guesswork, I guess 😅 We'll know how this pans out with time, same for that Cosworth GMA V12. When I say 'we', I'm sure you're in the same boat as me and will just learn from others experience really with no actual skin in the game to worry about 😂 - Taz.
@@hpa101 yeah, it's my guess purely from the fact that the T.50s engine is a V12 (superior balance to a V10 naturally) and that it's a semi stressed design rather than fully stressed
there was no better sound than those 19k rpm V10s. Can somebody help me understand the benefit of the V10 over the V12 in F1? I remember hearing that the V12 outright makes more power, but that the V10 has a better balance of weight and fuel economy. Is that all there is to it? Also, imo, they should take those modern literbikes with the most advanced consumer level engines in the world, and just scale that same tech up to v10s. Mmmmm that would be nice!
I think reliability at high RPM was a factor too, but the capacity rules changing according to many put the V10 in a sweet spot compared to the V8 or V12 options on the table at the time. There are tons of articles and videos on the V12s, but ultimately the V10s came out on top with the Ferrari V12 of the 90's failing to gain any driver or constructors winners trophies. Crazy how many DNF's they all had back then compared to today - Taz.
@@Shadowboost when i read about it, at the time the V12s were too thirsty but the V8s they developed didnt had enough power. The V10 config was actually a novelty for cars that only really started in late 80s exactly as a favorable middle ground between the pros and cons of the V8 vs V12, despite the natural inbalance they prefered to try and work around it with a little more overenginering with balance shafts and other components which to an extent played to their favor as they also made these engines a lot more sturdier and capable of reaching really high power figures and revs. Today with tighter emission standarts and advancements on forced induction tech the V10 is unfortunately virtually dead as VW/Audi ceased the 5.2 FSI, the last production one remaining, and only race tuners and crate engines like those of Judd for example still exist but are really hard to get and not very suites for road usage unless they get significantly remaped. I think the key objective advantage of a V10 today would be size min maxing as its obviously smaller than a V12 but could potentially be more adequate than a V8 for higher displacements, and if willing to work around the balancing issue the engine would consequentially be sturdier naturally. Still, really wish the car industry gave it more chances, they were still ultimately a rare config as you can count on both hands the number of road engine V10s made counting multiple gens like the Viper as one, and back in the 2000s with the F1 and novelty hype behind it a lot of brands were giving it a shot (shame Ferrari didnt had the balls to try and giving it a shot as well, their F1 engine was amazing) but even still, now its basically dead unless Rodin here want to bring it back (please please do) Cosworths RB17 unfortunately is not road legal as amazing as it is so its not the same thing, same with the Solus GT from Mclaren.
86mm bore is the downside, IMO. Judd's got it right with the 90+mm bore. I mean, 89mm at the very least, and if you paired that with a 63.5mm stroke, you could rev even higher. It's not like 92-96mm pistons can't be made for extreme RPM duty above 10k rpm. 95 bore 63.5 stroke gives you a 4.5L that can safely rev to 13k and likely make peak power around 11.5-12k for over 850hp at the crank. An 89 bore on the same stroke would be down 100hp and 550cc from that. Don't forget the stepped header primary tubes and a merged exhaust for the ultimate harmonic wail overtones to the V10 sound. I see this car has divorced exhaust, and because of that it doesn't sound as good as Ryan Tuerck's Judd supra. Pretty easy fix, just merge the dual 3" collectors/pipes into a single 4.25" pipe. Should be good for about 740hp worth of flow, too. Do your own cross-referencing and calcs, but the easy calc to go up, assuming area is matched to flow, is 1.414x the diameter of your duals, whatever they are.
So just want to make sure I'm understanding their engine development. It makes 720hp, well only 500, but 220 or just under 1/3 more power is totally easy to find. ITB's for the win! 12,000 rpm 15:1 compression Current cams are to suit turbo application, which in no way would support 12,000rpm or 15:1 C/R. Current inlet manifold is single throttle body designed to support 1000Hp + however is currently a restriction And direct injection because super lean burn is the way forward. That interview did more harm than good.
@@Shadowboost It's not targets it' straight up nonsense. Why are turbo cam profiles different? Because you don't want boost going straight out the exhaust so there is generally no overlap. Why 15:1 compression ratio? because high rpm N/A engines have low dynamic compression due to the large cam overlap required to exceed 100% VE and reach high rpm. So to claim to be running that combination is an admission of a) not understanding how engines work b) not knowing what the actual combination is c) making excuses for the lack of performance in a nonsensical way. As for the 1000hp + manifold it will allow 1000hp+ N/A or boosted, unless entirely too small requiring high boost pressure to overcome lack of area which is extremely inefficient. Direct injection isn't even the most efficient method of combustion. Pre-chamber ignition is. So if you were clean sheet designing an engine why not go with what is best?
@@jdoe9518I would love to see pre-chamber ignition on a flat-6 huge bore aero engine. But otherwise, short combustion times make an engine sound like a Diesel. And a combustion chamber in the shape of a cyclinder with central spark is already quite fast. Make the exhaust valves a little smaller and move to the center and liquid cool that edge to prevent knock and you can advance timing.
@@ArneChristianRosenfeldt Better let F1 and Mahle know they don't what they're doing then when it comes current pre-chamber ignition systems. 50% thermal efficiency is over rated anyway
@@jdoe9518 F1 has only 6 cylinders, so each one is bigger. Though F1 limited RPMs, they are still so high that they need any acceleration of burn that they can get. I don’t believe that efficiency yet, this technology did not spread since its invention years ago. I think that only stationary SI engines use a pre chamber to run super lean.
Meanwhile, my friends peripheral port 13b that was built TWENTY FIVE YEARS ago is still alive and kicking. Yes, it still sees 9-10,000 rpm. No, it doesn't need tons of premix. It's not 1998 anymore, technology caught up.
@@m.b.82 rotaries are rare where i live but every single one ive seen for sale had either blown engines or had already been rebuild even bellow 100k km. Cant tell me a rotary is reliable even if you maintain them, they surely cannot last anywhere near as long as a piston engine.
There is a video about someone adding s custome build v10 into a masta miata. Honestly its a waste of time. Why inest the time to develop an engine thats as powerful as a stock miata? Aaaaaaand it doesnt work bc its poorly engineered. Overheats so bad it would weld itself shut if you run it. What a waste of time money and hype.
It wasn't your time or money, and I bet they had a ton of fun doing it and learnt more than they would have sitting on the couch. Some people prefer the build to the drive, and while not every project 'makes sense' a lot of industry giants also can look back and see some things that seem a little silly with hindsight, yet those experiences and lessons (good or bad) also shaped them into the successful people they are today. That's just life 😎 - Taz. www.hpa-tunedin.com/
@@hpa101 Harsh reply, what's it going in, is Dicker going to sell it, what's the future? It's a copy of a 800 HP Judd, are Judds too expensive, too unreliable? will this one be better? not everyone is a genius and knows what Dicker is up to?
@shelterstation not sure what reply you were expecting from a such a question if you think that was harsh rather than to the point 🤘 Sorry if you found it harsh and that upset you, was just giving you an answer 😎 This interview is what it is, we can't add more questions and answers to it now and I don't have direct contact with David Dicker any more than you do. He's not even in this interview 😉 Hope the links below help you find out some more info on the project if you're keen to dig into it yourself - Taz. www.rodin-cars.com/media-center/rodin-sintura-legend-reborn-at-the-world-time-attack-challenge/ www.rodin-cars.com/
We have you covered there too 🤘 - Taz. www.hpacademy.com/blog/youll-never-guess-this-connection-11000-rpm-v10-supra-vs-ford-explorer www.hpacademy.com/blog/019-tuning-ryan-tuercks-screaming-v10-podcast/ www.hpacademy.com/blog/104-drifting-with-an-11000rpm-v10-not-as-good-as-youd-think-podcast/ www.hpacademy.com/blog/560hp-and-11200-rpm-georg-plasa-judd-v8-powered-bmw-e36-tech-tour/
With good twin screw Supercharger this engine will make over 1500hp Turbos are not good because of their lag Twin screw superchargers are very efficient now days .
@@reallybig4868 Just rode in a Goblin kit car with a twin charged chevy cobalt engine and the lag and boost threshold were non existent. It was absolutely wonderful. The turbo was a 600hp turbo, btw!
How are they supposed to be running 110% VE on a NA engine? And wtf is this guy talking about, the casting method increasing the density of the material? Honestly, this guy seems clueless. Bad image for the company
It would be great if you can post up some details on how he is wrong to state these things with supporting links. I can tell you though in your search you are actually going to find out that he is right on both counts here 😉 I'll let you do your own research but for anyone scrolling by: 110% VE is possible and isn't even uncommon in N/A motorsport applications. That has been the case for decades. I'm sure there will be some dyno tuning videos showing this if you have a hunt. Sadly it's not something we've covered (from memory) outside of mention in the VE module of the EFI Tuning Fundamentals course. Different casting methods can influence the density of the finished product for a few reasons, but porosity is probably the simplest to look into. You will find info on this from many major companies that offer such services. They often supply handy comparison tables. I'm sure Mike would even politely explain these things to you if you had the chance to talk to him rather than personally attacking you too. Food for thought in how you treat others, even in the rather impersonal comments sections here... - Taz.
Nikasil bores cost more that a basic cast liner, motorcycles use them as they take a lot more abuse from high revving engines....It's a type of chrome plating.
What's your favourite V10 in terms of sound? - Taz.
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TIME STAMPS:
0:00 - V10 V12 Nostalgia
0:20 - Mike Gartrell: Rodin Cars
0:30 - Why Design A New V10?
1:07 - What Did It Take?
1:58 - Neil Brown Engineering
2:17 - Design Process Simplification
2:30 - Engine Specs
3:05 - Volumetric Efficiency
4:10 - RPM Multiplier
4:28 - In House Machining
5:04 - Why? (Scale)
5:59 - 3D Printing & Casting
6:42 - What Is Vacuum Casting
7:12 - Why Cast Vs CNC Vs 3D Printing
7:48 - Initial Testing
8:26 - Sentura Packaging Restrictions
8:44 - Twin Turbo Plans
9:48 - Steel Lined Bore
10:17 - What Is Nikasil?
10:57 - Direct Injection
11:29 - Bosch Fuel System
12:06 - www.rodincars.com
12:10 - LOUD NOISES
12:50 - BUILD.TUNE.DRIVE
Favorite V10, in terms of sound? The Judd V10 in Ryan Tuerk's Formula Supra. As far as I know it's the only one of those engines with an X-pipe in the exhaust system, and nothing else sounds quite like it.
@griffinfaulkner3514 solid choice! That car on the whole is immaculate - Taz.
@@griffinfaulkner3514 the judd v8 in the bmw Hillclimb car is also absolutely incredible f1 sounding scream, chills everytime i hear it
Lexus LFA
Carrera GT sounds pretty nice
Always a good thing when a new NA V10 is made :)
Would sound amazing.
Still crushing interviews.. filling in exactly the little bits i wasn't 100% on. Still so well done guys.. detailed nerdy talk which is what i love, but made relatable.
So impressed by what Rodin has done with this design. John Britten would be proud.
Thank you HPA for delivering RUclips's best content on racing tech for years on end! :)
Appreciate the support mate! Hopefully we'll be able to keep it up for years to come 🤘 - Taz.
A new player in the Judd and Cosworth arena. The tech and developpment look really interesting and the sound is always awesome with a high-strung V10. Big thumbs up and can't wait to see/hear more of Rodin Cars!
Goosebumps sound ripping around the track near the end
Andre’s an elite interviewer
I always love these videos when you have such a knowledgeable interviewer presenting distillation in real time
Building an engine from scratch is such a huge achievement!!! Sounds awesome.
Awesome showcase! HPA and a bespoke engine deep dive?! Instant click
Waited for the ECU mention 👍🏻.
Excellent video as always.
I really like the BARREL THROTTLE idea, very sweet.
The engine note is beautiful, especially on the downshifts.
GO THE MIGHTY KIWIS!!! As a fellow kiwi, it's awesome to see stuff like this coming out of our mighty country
That car sounds very very nice and sounds like it has heaps more in it. Keep up the good work Rodin and go for it. I feel we are looking at a repeat of the start of mclaren. Huge gulp fulls of money invested this time around. I love it.
Magical indeed ! Great interview - Kiwis FTW 👍
Dude. Wow. Best engine building content ever. I learned a metric shit ton of new information with this video. Great stuff. Keep it up.....And no garbage AI voiceovers or image generating....NICE! NA V10's are the peak of awesomeness!!!!
Cheers mate! Appreciate your comment 🤘 Heaps more to come from this event over the coming months 😎 - Taz.
That V.E from an N/A is impressive
Props to these guys taking a chance on this.
Great job
Keep it up
From Argentina...
ahh now i know why this car sound so crisp, the engine use Di instead port inj and using singel throttle body, what a piece of car... love it!
Pankl was making engine parts for the Audi works rally cars way back
Along with the Lehman style manifold and all sorts of frictional coatings by Balzers in Litchenstien
We think we’re pretty smart here in NZ
Go to Europe and the depth of knowledge there is amazing
The UK is really where it's at for a crazy amount of knowledge within a relatively small geographical footprint, from F1 down.
Of course there are always some outliers too 😎 - Taz.
Amazing seeing an engine of this level being manufactured from the bolts and castings. I hope this is successful. The twin turbo will be surreal.
I always love new information. Thank you
You've got to respect Rodin. Not easy to do in Europe or USA, let alone in New Zealand.
Manufacturing and sourcing here is hard and expensive. I've done it in US and EU and coming back here is frustrating, honestly.
Never forget the history you guys have down the road in Aus. Repco for a time, several sunsets ago were the engine supplier of choice, if you wanted to be competitive in Grand Prix, before that Duckworth turned up and made it very difficult.
Great no bull interview, we can only wish them the best of luck with this very exiting project.
What's the bets they end up with 12cyliders @ 4ltrs displacement😉
Repco only supplied Brabham, they didn't supply any other F1 teams. .
@@MasterChief37 Brabham was the only team that won a world championship with a Repco. Walter hassen of Coventry climax is reputed to have advised their clients to buy a Repco after the Coventry's succession from race engine manufacture at the time of the 3Ltr limit. The best they could do was a stretched FPF to 2.7 Ltrs of 4 cyls As a result many smaller teams using proprietary chassis fitted a Repco
Marcos also used a one in the 1968 XP sports racer for Spa. It failed to finish because the alternator driven off the back of the box was soaked resulting in a failure to proceed. That's motor sport for you😔
@@gothicpagan.666 they didn’t supply other teams only Brabham. Brabham sold customer cars to other teams who raced them, these cars came with Repco engines. Only Brabham chassis used Repco engines in F1. It was rather quickly eclipsed Cosworth DFV.
@@MasterChief37 Paul Emery borrowed one to replace the early Martin engine that didn't work in his Emerson.
One of the Italian counts used one to replace a broken Maser engine he used in the back of a Cooper, another had one in a F2 Cooper chassis when the V6 Ferrari engine failed.
There were many f2 chassis fitted with bigger units just to get an entry in an event that payed much better.
My dear old dad made a reasonable living from playing with toys
Fantastic, as usual. Could you get someone from PANKL on your podcast for an interview to talk about piston and con rod design perhaps?
We'd love to. Do you have any connections there/someone specific in mind? - Taz.
@@hpa101 Unfortunately, I do not. Perhaps they are represented at one of the big trade shows? But that would likely be in Europe given that they are based in Austria. That makes it unlikely that your paths are going to cross I suppose.
@@IsentropeMachzahl maybe someone will pop up next time we make it to Goodwood if we don't have any luck before then 😎 - Taz.
Great questions as usual guys! Thanks for sharing!
And it sounds wonderful.
Ohhhh, that's good. It's got that F1 V10 sound but a little more raw, and obviously about 5k rpm short.
I love that the reasoning for most of this endeavour seems to be "because I wanna"
Top interview!
Awesome to hear more kiwi's building crazy fast projects like this! Keep em coming.
Love it! 🦾
The V10s are the best sounding engines of all time, nothing sounds better than a high rev V10.
it was a awesome car to watch at World Time Attack "That engine sound wow!" very fast very cool
That hair is cool man, I could only dream of having it!
I’d like to see pre-chamber initiated combustion become more of a thing. Definitely the way to go. Being able to burn more fuel and control a flame front is key.
🇦🇺🤜🏼🤛🏼😎🍀☮️☮️☮️
The rb17 engine is also a v10 except it revs 3,000 times more. Insane engine.
cool, saw and spoke to these guys briefly back at PRI 2023. somehow i missed that they were Kiwis (although i'm not surprised in the least that they ARE Kiwis). 🤙
David Dicker is building a world class operation in north Canterbury.
Jamie doesn't talk too much but he definitely needs his own episode 💯
This is for the purists with big pockets. Proud of them. Even doing part of this is hard in NZ, let alone the whole thing. Incredibly impressive vision and drive.
I love it, but for me an LS platform doing similar or more power and torque for 20k range is far more enjoyable and to me sounds just as amazing in it's own way.
Nikasil was developed in ~30s for Lister CS indirect injection diesel engines (the longest produced engine of all time, still in production today) and was what pushed their lifetimes further and further. 80k hour rebuilds on modern oil with that coating lmao. 5L per cylinder, 12hp in a twin at 650rpm and 90ftlbs. Weighs 750kg and will do that load all day, all night, all week without letting you down if you keep the oil happy.
When it was truly Great Britain. How far it has fallen today.
looks like a baby group c car. love it.
Better know your craft before you talk to this interviewer, really knows his stuff. Man, in the media there's some real blockheads yammering on, but this was very informative and asked great questions.
Cheers mate, appreciate the support!
People complain about the seals in a rotary, but that engine there cost as much as a house to buy and build!
Nickilsile is the 👌 👍 😍......no wear...less friction...its a carbide like coating that all you do to freshen up the engine is 600 grit sandpaper by hand in a criss cross motion in soapy water and blow dry and wipe with oil to deglase ...and a new set of rings and wham!!...... new engine 😊
Astonishing cost of investment.
Will be interesting to see how it all pans out price wise production wise, although selling them separately will be second to supplying them for their own vehicles I'm sure 🤘- Taz.
@@hpa101 What I would love to know is how many vehicle have been sold?
@MasterChief37 as in 'pre-sold'? The best people to ask would be the people selling them 😉 - Taz.
that sound though
v10😍
15:1 compression ratio. God dam. And 12k rpm. I bet she screams
15:1 is standard i would say.. many hillclimb cars here are running 14-15:1, tho that is static CR and with big cams what you want to know is dynamic CR
@@exvilshow do you even overlap valves at that compression ratio? It makes all engines look the same. No matter if Diesel or gasoline, 4 valves from the top (almost no pentroof). Minimal overlap which VVT can set to zero for stable engine braking .
@@ArneChristianRosenfeldt dome will take care of CR, no vvti in any of those engine (one friend of mine only runs vtec and around 13.5:1). Also not every engine has wide valve angle, most narrow valve angle engines with high positioned intake port perform the best, and deeper valve reliefs is all you need.
also example, 17.5-18:1 CR 1.9tdi 8v (stock thickest headgasket) will run 282° cam in stock form, although valve reliefs are recommended. There is also like 30cc volume in bowl of the piston.
@@exvils valve reliefs increase surface area, which is bad for heat insulation, but also turbulence “insulation”. We want turbulence to keep its energy from intake to mid flame front propagation. Slight reliefs in the firewall for the intake valves is what I accept. But then I also am a fan of a turbo and short intake to get air in right from the start of the intake stroke .
Vão fazer apenas carros de corrida ou pensam em lançar versões de rua? Com esse V10 aspirado girando 12 mil magnífico
Would be crazy if they somehow got enough of these chassis and engines together to have a trs level seris over summer
Having a design envelope of 110% VE and only being at 90% is WILD. That's exactly the kind of thing that would make a thousand horsepower STREETABLE N/A LS possible.
Very cool
I am amazed by what is happening in NZ motor sport!
A Sintura, what a fucking legend. 👀👀
Great car. I'd like to know what fuel they use. Cossworth GMA 4.0 is a V12 street engine with 650BHP, it would be sure very interesting to see the comparison. Great video, thanks.
This is a race engine. T.50s engine makes 770 hp and is essentially the same weight
@@Shadowboost
The T.50 engine is the GMA engine. It makes a little bit over 650bhp. It has a bigger brother for the Aston Martin hypercar, a 6,5l V12 with 1000bhp, a little bit over 200kg.
@@kledomuc1713 the T.50s is the track version of the T.50. It has a modified engine with no variable valve timing, no emissions devices, and 12 ITBs. It makes 770 hp and weighs 166 kg. It is DIFFERENT than the road car engine
@@Shadowboost
Thanks. Heard of the track version but didn't know it has such a significant power, I love this engine even more than.
80 (wutever) Bore by 60 (wutever) Stroke ? Awesome Choice aka Anti-stroker is better than stroker will always be my lane.
Long live the v10
Can you please post more on this car!!!🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I haven't been through the event folder yet but I think we have another one coming 😎 - Taz.
Hewlett p Bmw v10 is the best sounding I reckon
Volumetric efficiency is theoretical mass x actual mass. Theoretically mass is the mass of air that would fill the same volume as the cylinder displaces. Having 110% is news to me. I’m assuming it’s a ram air design of some sort
Ran air. All these formula type engines make that
Not necessarily ram air and only ram air. Here's a quick piece on pressure waves and ITBs -www.hpacademy.com/technical-articles/trumpet-length-and-its-effect-on-torque/
The great cam control we have these days is important too.
This is also a quick thread on the topic: www.hpacademy.com/technical-articles/trumpet-length-and-its-effect-on-torque/
Hope that helps @Lnmoto86 and @Shadowboost. There is some more on it in the forum too 🤘 - Taz.
fuk yeah ma boia, home grown kiwi talent i wanna see this project scale world wide and into world production, make this happen
How did it compare to the TS010 lap time?
No way to know. The TS010 lap times were never published - Taz.
Considering their logo, which is clearly The Thinker by the artist Rodin, it should actually be pronounced Rodan. Like the giant pterodactyl monster from Godzilla. Which is much better.
Cosworth has been using "vacuum casting" for decades....
Oh no you too! When did 'route' become "rout?" Do we no longer spell it with an e on the end??
When? Since the beginning of time. Welcome to the English language, it's 100+ dialects and constant evolution 😂 - Taz.
ruclips.net/video/ObkJNstaog8/видео.html
GMA T.50s is at 770 hp at 6 kg heavier, and I'm guessing more reliable. That includes the ISG as well
Yeah that's a nice V12. Guess you'd hope the 2 extra cylinders would be worth the effort compared to a V10 in some way eh.
Without data, all you have is an opinion regarding the reliability guesswork, I guess 😅
We'll know how this pans out with time, same for that Cosworth GMA V12.
When I say 'we', I'm sure you're in the same boat as me and will just learn from others experience really with no actual skin in the game to worry about 😂 - Taz.
@@hpa101 yeah, it's my guess purely from the fact that the T.50s engine is a V12 (superior balance to a V10 naturally) and that it's a semi stressed design rather than fully stressed
there was no better sound than those 19k rpm V10s. Can somebody help me understand the benefit of the V10 over the V12 in F1? I remember hearing that the V12 outright makes more power, but that the V10 has a better balance of weight and fuel economy. Is that all there is to it?
Also, imo, they should take those modern literbikes with the most advanced consumer level engines in the world, and just scale that same tech up to v10s. Mmmmm that would be nice!
I think reliability at high RPM was a factor too, but the capacity rules changing according to many put the V10 in a sweet spot compared to the V8 or V12 options on the table at the time.
There are tons of articles and videos on the V12s, but ultimately the V10s came out on top with the Ferrari V12 of the 90's failing to gain any driver or constructors winners trophies. Crazy how many DNF's they all had back then compared to today - Taz.
@@hpa101 Ahhh reliability. Thank you so much. Maybe the less moving parts and also relatively larger engine parts helped with the reliability.
@@El_Chompo it was mostly weight and fuel economy. Reliability was not bad with the V12s since the engines were better balanced than the V10/V8s
@@Shadowboost when i read about it, at the time the V12s were too thirsty but the V8s they developed didnt had enough power. The V10 config was actually a novelty for cars that only really started in late 80s exactly as a favorable middle ground between the pros and cons of the V8 vs V12, despite the natural inbalance they prefered to try and work around it with a little more overenginering with balance shafts and other components which to an extent played to their favor as they also made these engines a lot more sturdier and capable of reaching really high power figures and revs. Today with tighter emission standarts and advancements on forced induction tech the V10 is unfortunately virtually dead as VW/Audi ceased the 5.2 FSI, the last production one remaining, and only race tuners and crate engines like those of Judd for example still exist but are really hard to get and not very suites for road usage unless they get significantly remaped. I think the key objective advantage of a V10 today would be size min maxing as its obviously smaller than a V12 but could potentially be more adequate than a V8 for higher displacements, and if willing to work around the balancing issue the engine would consequentially be sturdier naturally. Still, really wish the car industry gave it more chances, they were still ultimately a rare config as you can count on both hands the number of road engine V10s made counting multiple gens like the Viper as one, and back in the 2000s with the F1 and novelty hype behind it a lot of brands were giving it a shot (shame Ferrari didnt had the balls to try and giving it a shot as well, their F1 engine was amazing) but even still, now its basically dead unless Rodin here want to bring it back (please please do) Cosworths RB17 unfortunately is not road legal as amazing as it is so its not the same thing, same with the Solus GT from Mclaren.
86mm bore is the downside, IMO. Judd's got it right with the 90+mm bore. I mean, 89mm at the very least, and if you paired that with a 63.5mm stroke, you could rev even higher. It's not like 92-96mm pistons can't be made for extreme RPM duty above 10k rpm. 95 bore 63.5 stroke gives you a 4.5L that can safely rev to 13k and likely make peak power around 11.5-12k for over 850hp at the crank. An 89 bore on the same stroke would be down 100hp and 550cc from that.
Don't forget the stepped header primary tubes and a merged exhaust for the ultimate harmonic wail overtones to the V10 sound. I see this car has divorced exhaust, and because of that it doesn't sound as good as Ryan Tuerck's Judd supra. Pretty easy fix, just merge the dual 3" collectors/pipes into a single 4.25" pipe. Should be good for about 740hp worth of flow, too. Do your own cross-referencing and calcs, but the easy calc to go up, assuming area is matched to flow, is 1.414x the diameter of your duals, whatever they are.
Give em a taste of Kiwi
Also sorry, it hurts to say but the Judd sounds better
That's OK to say, we all have our own preferences 🤘 Hope you enjoyed WTAC assuming you were lucky enough to hear this in person there 😎 - Taz.
So just want to make sure I'm understanding their engine development.
It makes 720hp, well only 500, but 220 or just under 1/3 more power is totally easy to find. ITB's for the win!
12,000 rpm
15:1 compression
Current cams are to suit turbo application, which in no way would support 12,000rpm or 15:1 C/R.
Current inlet manifold is single throttle body designed to support 1000Hp + however is currently a restriction
And direct injection because super lean burn is the way forward.
That interview did more harm than good.
Yeah, it's a bunch of targets. Meanwhile GMA has actually demonstrated 770 hp
@@Shadowboost It's not targets it' straight up nonsense.
Why are turbo cam profiles different? Because you don't want boost going straight out the exhaust so there is generally no overlap.
Why 15:1 compression ratio? because high rpm N/A engines have low dynamic compression due to the large cam overlap required to exceed 100% VE and reach high rpm.
So to claim to be running that combination is an admission of a) not understanding how engines work b) not knowing what the actual combination is c) making excuses for the lack of performance in a nonsensical way.
As for the 1000hp + manifold it will allow 1000hp+ N/A or boosted, unless entirely too small requiring high boost pressure to overcome lack of area which is extremely inefficient.
Direct injection isn't even the most efficient method of combustion. Pre-chamber ignition is. So if you were clean sheet designing an engine why not go with what is best?
@@jdoe9518I would love to see pre-chamber ignition on a flat-6 huge bore aero engine. But otherwise, short combustion times make an engine sound like a Diesel. And a combustion chamber in the shape of a cyclinder with central spark is already quite fast. Make the exhaust valves a little smaller and move to the center and liquid cool that edge to prevent knock and you can advance timing.
@@ArneChristianRosenfeldt Better let F1 and Mahle know they don't what they're doing then when it comes current pre-chamber ignition systems. 50% thermal efficiency is over rated anyway
@@jdoe9518 F1 has only 6 cylinders, so each one is bigger. Though F1 limited RPMs, they are still so high that they need any acceleration of burn that they can get. I don’t believe that efficiency yet, this technology did not spread since its invention years ago. I think that only stationary SI engines use a pre chamber to run super lean.
Everyone with an RX7 needing its 10th set of new apex seals right now… 🥵
Well just add oil to the fuel, and don't let them sit!
Bah, I had rotaries for 20 years and never had apex seal issues.
That was just a consumer issue for ppl that don't change their oil
You OBVIOUSLY have NO IDEA what YOU are talking about, when talking about Apex seals.
Meanwhile, my friends peripheral port 13b that was built TWENTY FIVE YEARS ago is still alive and kicking. Yes, it still sees 9-10,000 rpm. No, it doesn't need tons of premix.
It's not 1998 anymore, technology caught up.
@@m.b.82 rotaries are rare where i live but every single one ive seen for sale had either blown engines or had already been rebuild even bellow 100k km. Cant tell me a rotary is reliable even if you maintain them, they surely cannot last anywhere near as long as a piston engine.
🔊👂🫂❤️🔥
It looks like something I don't need
Almost everything you own you don't 'need' ti be fair - Taz.
Cool story bro
Vtin
There is a video about someone adding s custome build v10 into a masta miata. Honestly its a waste of time. Why inest the time to develop an engine thats as powerful as a stock miata? Aaaaaaand it doesnt work bc its poorly engineered. Overheats so bad it would weld itself shut if you run it. What a waste of time money and hype.
It wasn't your time or money, and I bet they had a ton of fun doing it and learnt more than they would have sitting on the couch.
Some people prefer the build to the drive, and while not every project 'makes sense' a lot of industry giants also can look back and see some things that seem a little silly with hindsight, yet those experiences and lessons (good or bad) also shaped them into the successful people they are today.
That's just life 😎 - Taz.
www.hpa-tunedin.com/
Er, mmmm, why???
Why watch RUclips? Why post this comment? Because you want to.
Why build this end and pop it in a SINTURA? Because someone wants to 🤘 - Taz.
@@hpa101 Harsh reply, what's it going in, is Dicker going to sell it, what's the future? It's a copy of a 800 HP Judd, are Judds too expensive, too unreliable? will this one be better? not everyone is a genius and knows what Dicker is up to?
@shelterstation not sure what reply you were expecting from a such a question if you think that was harsh rather than to the point 🤘 Sorry if you found it harsh and that upset you, was just giving you an answer 😎
This interview is what it is, we can't add more questions and answers to it now and I don't have direct contact with David Dicker any more than you do. He's not even in this interview 😉
Hope the links below help you find out some more info on the project if you're keen to dig into it yourself - Taz.
www.rodin-cars.com/media-center/rodin-sintura-legend-reborn-at-the-world-time-attack-challenge/
www.rodin-cars.com/
Motorcycle engine makes 200hp at 1000cc road legal ,more at racing NA...
Judd...
We have you covered there too 🤘 - Taz.
www.hpacademy.com/blog/youll-never-guess-this-connection-11000-rpm-v10-supra-vs-ford-explorer
www.hpacademy.com/blog/019-tuning-ryan-tuercks-screaming-v10-podcast/
www.hpacademy.com/blog/104-drifting-with-an-11000rpm-v10-not-as-good-as-youd-think-podcast/
www.hpacademy.com/blog/560hp-and-11200-rpm-georg-plasa-judd-v8-powered-bmw-e36-tech-tour/
With good twin screw Supercharger this engine will make over 1500hp Turbos are not good because of their lag Twin screw superchargers are very efficient now days .
Technology has come a long way when it comes to turbo technology, boost control and turbo lag 🤘 - Taz.
@@Decki777 three turbo compound set up with boost controllers at the cylinder to maintain max boost across rpm. Think anti lag
Why not both 😎
@@reallybig4868 Just rode in a Goblin kit car with a twin charged chevy cobalt engine and the lag and boost threshold were non existent. It was absolutely wonderful. The turbo was a 600hp turbo, btw!
It's 2024, buddy. GM builds a 2.7 L 4 cylinder, that makes 420 Lb/ft of torque at *1500 RPM* , IT'S SPOOLED BY 2000, WHAT LAG ?!?!!
How are they supposed to be running 110% VE on a NA engine? And wtf is this guy talking about, the casting method increasing the density of the material? Honestly, this guy seems clueless. Bad image for the company
hahaha
It would be great if you can post up some details on how he is wrong to state these things with supporting links. I can tell you though in your search you are actually going to find out that he is right on both counts here 😉
I'll let you do your own research but for anyone scrolling by:
110% VE is possible and isn't even uncommon in N/A motorsport applications. That has been the case for decades. I'm sure there will be some dyno tuning videos showing this if you have a hunt. Sadly it's not something we've covered (from memory) outside of mention in the VE module of the EFI Tuning Fundamentals course.
Different casting methods can influence the density of the finished product for a few reasons, but porosity is probably the simplest to look into. You will find info on this from many major companies that offer such services. They often supply handy comparison tables.
I'm sure Mike would even politely explain these things to you if you had the chance to talk to him rather than personally attacking you too. Food for thought in how you treat others, even in the rather impersonal comments sections here... - Taz.
Yes, I know. I failed life. Beautiful piece of engineering.
Nikasil bores cost more that a basic cast liner, motorcycles use them as they take a lot more abuse from high revving engines....It's a type of chrome plating.