Imagine a F150 PlugIn Hybrid. 30 miles of electric range so you don't have to spend money on gas each day, but a great option for long distance without the hassle of charging on road.
@@heathwirt8919 I agree. It would be pretty boring if all they did was hug and compliment each other all day. Roman can be annoying but he is the boss and I can tell he has respect for the others. Roman's an ok guy.
Glad you touched on the range issue without down playing it. The massive reduction in range when towing is going to be the Achilles' heel of EVs for the foreseeable future.
@@steveshallenberg2994 Indeed, 10% for 16 miles makes for 160 mile range when towing in the mountains. Compared to half tons attaining 4MPG uphill and probably 8MPG combined, they dont get further on a 20 gallon tank. -But of course fill it up in 3 minutes :D
@@tsd560ti6 that’s not what you get in a diesel. If you’re towing heavy stuff you would want a diesel because the gas engine wouldn’t work very well. A HEMI 2500 is only rated to tow about 4k lb. And you also have closer to a 30 gallon tank in most of these trucks. Most diesel trucks towing 10k lb have around 300 miles range at 10 mpg and 31 gal tank (~new diesel Ram 2500) At 12 mpg your range would be 372.
@@radcardad Huh? A diesel 3/4 ton usually have poor payloads for a 3/4 ton, usually around 2000lbs, sometimes less. A tow package equipped 3/4 ton usually have a tow rating of around 14000lbs.
If you look at the design for the rear suspension on the Lightning, it hinges from the front, and acts like a trailing arm suspension. Most SUV's with IRS (that have sway issues) hinge from the middle. Meaning as the suspension goes up and down, the camber and track width of the rear tires change. The Lightning does not have this issue. The camber does not change at all, and the track width does not change at all. This is why it feels so solid.
What most SxS use. Trailing arm 4-link suspension. Keeps camber and wheel arching out to a minimum, increasing stability. Also makes suspension tuning a lot more noticeable.
I’m surprised they didn’t comment more on ride quality aside from towing dynamics. Obviously it’s a towing torture test and more in the spirit of this review to focus on that, but I couldn’t help but observe the ride seemed a bit more harsh in the lighting. Not sure if that was more noticeable because you hear the tire and road noise more as there was no constant hum of the gasoline engine, or if it was mainly audible and didn’t translate much into the cabin, but I would have liked them to comment on that more rather then mentioning the lighting felt more solid and planted (did that also result in a more bone jarring ride when going over imperfections in the road surface due to higher weight and different suspension setup)?
Also, judging by their tug-of-war test, the traction control on electric motors is much quicker and more accurate. I believe that plays a large factor as well.
@@SnakeEater503 Well, at around 60% the truck was estimating 96 Miles of range at the top of the hill. That was based on the trailer and them getting there.
Even the uphill wasn't bad because its calculating distance at current load, you aren't going to be climbing a 7% grade the whole time and you'll get the miles back on the downhill. I think the flat ground towing will be good mileage.
I wish you had started in Boulder and towed to the Ike to get an apples to apples comparison with the Rivian. The downhill regen was really impressive.
to do that they would have had to use the same trailer. seems like for this test they were trying to just see how capable the lightning was rather than how it tows longer distances.
@@Somebody294 When they had the Rivian, they used their own flatbed trailer hauling the old 1965 Ford F-100. The F-100 is in Arizona getting modified so they could have just hauled a similar vehicle. I think they purposely didn't tow the trailer up to the Ike because they knew it wouldn't make the whole trip and didn't want to deal with the hassle of recharging. That's what almost everyone is concerned with!
I just wanted to say, wow on the lightening! But also to keep in mind. It’s taken years for the gas engine or power boost to perform as well as it did. This is the 1st generation electric truck and right out of the gate it did as well and if not better than it’s gas brother. Electrification is impressive!
At the same time its not as if electric motors are new. They have been using diesel generators with electric motors in the wheels clear back in the late 1800s
I think you're thinking about it a little bit differently, the reason this is the 1st generation of F150 electric is because it's finally ready for it. It wouldn't make any sense for them to put outo put out on electric f 150 10 years ago That only had a 15 mile range and 200 horsepower.... It wouldn't sell so why would they make it. Now that electric technology is ready and will sell that's why they have finally produced it
The problem has never been with electric motors. Electric motors have always been very efficient. It's always been with the energy storage. For years the only battery technology has been lead based which made electric vehicles worthless. Even with lithium, the energy density is still 1/100th the amount of gasoline. Gas/diesel engines are the complete opposite. They have had the crutch of having a fuel with high energy density. Gasoline has an energy density of 100x over lithium. A gas engine loses at least a third of its energy in heat alone. But no matter how inefficient they are, fueling them has always been pretty simple and quick which makes them our number one option. It's one of the reasons why charging an electric vehicle costs less than fueling a gas vehicle. In terms of energy, you have to buy much less energy to do the same work.
First let me say thank you to everyone at TFL. I first followed the channel back when it was Roman and Nathan only. Probably 8 years ago. Since then, I’ve watched your channels and stayed up to date thanks to your hard work. I’ve gone through the Wrangler phase with your videos. Been into the high performance European market. Now looking at an F-150 of some type and your videos are fantastic. So glad to see your successes in the market and online. 😎
@@anthonyc1883 oh I do. That was when it was just 2 guys and a camera. Admire their push to make it to the top! And… Motor Mountain USA pushed me to buy a Wrangler and explore the country!!
I'm beginning to see the benefit of the tow package (extra cooling). That's an incredible amount of energy discharged, and a fire hose of regenerative braking back into the battery.... all on a 400 Volt system.
And no damn humidity to speak of either. Feels like a damn sauna here except maybe from 1 to 7:00 a.m. 8 years I've been in this swamp & still kicking my ass!
That was impressive watching 1) the acceleration at the start of the climb - it visibly jumped when you punched it. And 2) how well used battery regen to help control your descent.
That is the most capable towing vehicle I've seen yet! You passed two broken vehicles on the way up the mountain, in complete comfort, at 60 mph and nothing about the vehicle indicated that it was in distress. It sure looks like Ford did it right with the F150 Lightning. The real surprise to me was how well the Eco-boost did. I would have expected it to be forced to slow down. It worked hard, but it got the job done.
@@scottromero4004 How many grades go uphill for mor than 50 miles in one go? It recharges the battery instead of burning up brakes on the downhill grades. While the ICE vehicles have to pull over to cool their brakes, this truck just keeps right on going.
@@joegibbs2508 how so??? It literally has no weight up front. A diesel in AWD or an ecoboost F150 would do the same thing! Why in the hell is everyone else X it’s about a truck being fast when there was already other fast trucks? A simple tune to an ecoboost would rape it!
I can't floor my 2006 F350 on an on ramp empty or loaded as it blows the tires loose even with 1200#'s of tongue weight and a 1500# SxS sitting on its flatbed. Still trying to figure out how a F150 on low rolling resistance with almost 600 ft-lba of torque chirping it's tires is so amazing??? What is scary as hell is the spastic driving and variability of these tests. Set the cruise at 64 and tell me how long it takes to go 600 miles and what the cost is. That's what I wanna know!
I had no doubt before this video that the Lighting would tow very well. It is heavy so will be very stable and will gain energy down hill. As stated all trucks lose range when towing, the only issue with the Lightning is recharge time. This means that while it is great towing a trailer around town on shorter journeys it will not be a good choice to tow across country. Not only will you have to recharge a lot, the chargers are not designed to pull into with a trailer connected which means finding somewhere to drop the trailer while you charge. Just too inconvenient. This particular test is extreme but even on normal towing you would expect the range to be halved. Overall though very impressive but I do tow 8300 pounds and when I do its over distance so it would not work for that.
You’re right, towing that much weight long distances is a deal breaker. I typically tow about the same weight - 7-8,000 lbs - but I generally never tow more than 100 miles with that weight. And I don’t typically drive more than 150 miles per day when not towing. So the Lightning would be perfect for people like me.
@@kdrain Yeah my towing is a camper so while sometimes its 100 miles or so, often it is further than that and to fairly remote locations where chargers are going to be sparse. Electric trucks don't work for me yet.
Then buy the proper truck for it. 99% of Americans are not going to be towing hundreds and hundreds of miles with a heavy load. Most of us will be using it to go to home depot or lowes, might pick up some furniture, put my rifles in the frunk and get some breakfast before i go hunting. Oh and driving 100 miles a day to work without having to pay $160 a week on gas.
@@mguerra310 I already have the proper truck to tow thanks. I am impressed with the lightning but I would be more likely to get an electric car not a truck based on what’s currently available. I do agree for a lot of people this makes perfect sense. Most people driving F250s don’t need them.
I love the chemistry between both of you!! Tommy and Andre really do compliment each other and let each other speak, providing a lot of info. Great video!!
You guys are amazing. Intelligent and relevant commentary… amazing how entertaining y’all make these tests. You can tell you guys truly love your jobs. Thanks for sharing!
I don’t know guys, but I saw that Ford Excursion keeping up with you guys all the way! Jokes aside that Lightning was pretty impressive! Lots of power.
uploaded in time for me to watch before school. Also I have to add that I am the biggest fan of big V8 tow rigs, but this lightning performed amazingly.
Awesome results. No brake applications, you had to accelerate which blows me away. And uphill spinning tires, unreal. This truck is amazing. Looking forward for mine arriving next week!
it was in continuous brake application all the way down, with the motor, this is the primary method in which trains control speed as a locomotive has a diesel generator powering an electric motor to turn the wheels, works great just not so much in a flat state or driving to the grocery store.
If my calculations are correct this pickup pulling a load up hill has a range of 50 miles. 16% of capacity in 8 miles. 100/16 = 6.25x8=50 mile range on a warm day. Try it at 0 degrees like many of us deal with in Winter.
Round trip was a net of 9% SOC for ~17 miles of extremes? Seems about as good as you could possibly expect. I love that regen isn't handicapped and was able to be fully leveraged on the downhill run unlike other EVs.
That is a very steep run ,,,was just up there last week ! Have driven it thirty or forty times over the years . Was towing 6k to the western slope to camp . That section of east bound I-70 is awful as far as road condition goes ,, very rough ! Not great on trucks and trailers . Very interesting video and well done guys !
My girlfriend and I took a trip to Colorado about a month ago and drove the IKE on our way to Aspen from Denver. We decided to take her Saturn over my F-150 5.0L for fuel economy reasons, I was astonished at how steep the IKE actually was, her little 4 cylinder Saturn struggled to maintain the speed limit going up it pulling nothing but its own weight and the downhill portion of it was even worse, despite my best efforts to manually shift and use what little engine braking that car has, I imagine we shaved about 5% off her brakes just going to Aspen and back to Denver. After experiencing the IKE first hand it really put into perspective how impressive it is that some of these trucks can not only maintain but exceed the speed limit going up the IKE with 10 to 20K behind them.
My wife's older Honda Pilot struggled when we go over the Ike... Both sides of the tunnel. And that is just for weekend runs to Steamboat and back with the family loaded in. I would not want to tow over the Ike at ALL if I can help it. What if the tunnel is closed and you have to detour over Loveland Pass??? Yikes...
My girlfriend and I took a trip to Colorado about a month ago and drove the IKE on our way to Aspen from Denver. We decided to take her Saturn over my Ford F-150 5.0L for fuel economy reasons, I was astonished at how steep the IKE actually was, her little 4 cylinder Saturn struggled to maintain the speed limit going up it pulling nothing but its own weight and the downhill portion of it was even worse, despite my best efforts to manually shift and use what little engine braking that car has, I imagine we shaved about 5% off her brakes just going to Aspen and back to Denver. After experiencing the IKE first hand it really put into perspective how impressive it is that some of these trucks can not only maintain but exceed the speed limit going up the IKE with 10 to 20K behind them.
Very impressive results out of the Lightning while towing near max weight and payload up one of the steepest grades in the Country. I currently have an F150 Powerboost hybrid which I'm quite happy with but will be seriously considering a new Lightning in the next couple of years.
I really want to see this tow test done on the 100 mile loop, to get a better feel of how it will do for the rest of us that don't have to deal with these huge mountains. Also I must say, Tesla really started the EV crazy but Ford, if they keep this up, will start to lead the EV market in the future.
Have to rig the old Glorified Golf Cart with a back up generator system I think....I'm fine with a hybrid but, a Glorified Golf Cart....NEVER in my life!
Teslas days are numbered by the ability of the other manufacturers to build production capacity. Might be a little hyperbolic but I think Ford could eclipse Tesla with the Lightning alone if they could build them fast enough.
@@davewood406 machE, and lightning in the US, they also have the TransitE van and other electric models in other parts of the world. Tesla can't get into that many markets especially since they don't have existing designs to make electric like Ford does.
@@rowerwet Right. Tesla was bold and pushed a market forward when the behemoths were waiting until they the time was right for whatever metric they had in mind. Tesla's are cool cars but they are learning the hard way that making a lot of cars well is hard. Some legacy manufacturers still have misses. You can't poach that ability, that infrastructure or the logistics that have taken decades to build. Ford (and others)taking the safe route and "just" electrifying conventional designs will take EVs the rest of the way. I think Tesla can survive the foreseeable timeline, I am not predicting their demise, just diminished to one of many...
Tesla is the leader and will be for a while how many EVs they make a year last year. Oh almost 1million and that’s only two factories once Texas and Berlin get full production they will be miles more ahead of everyone. I do love that their will be competition but losing its leading spot unlikely. They are way ahead on the EV tech, manufacturing, battery supply, and chips.
what a great video, I used your review of the 2.7 ecoboost to help educate myself before buying a truck and travel trailer, You guys do great work please keep up the awesome videos.
@@aussie2uGA because you will be replacing the electric motor before any maintenance is required. I'm betting if they're like Tesla at 100,000 miles the motor will need replaced
@@forevergoblue5826 I agree. Neither of these guys come off as truck guys, more like business partners discussing work. Mr Truck would of been a better choice for this video.
It would be interesting to know if the F-150 hybrid towing the Excursion up the Ike gets better MPG than the Excursion just driving up on it’s own. I’d be willing to bet that yes, the F-150 hybrid will use less gas.
I think you guys would be perfect to test out this lightning in a real world test to show what most people are worried about: going on a road trip while towing an average travel trailer or boat.
Most of the worries are a result of not understanding the capabilities of the vehicle. If you're going on a long trip, with or without towing a trailer, the Lightning probably isn't the right choice. People need to keep their expectations in check. Ford has done a good job being upfront about driving range under varying conditions.
@@patrickford18 for those that do take trips with campers, what ev truck would you recommend? i only ask as this seems to be the direction the current admin wants the U.S. to head in. many people own full profile campers/fifthwheels, those would be the true test for the ev pick up trucks. we both know what would happen if you put a 10k lb full profile fifthwheel camper behind that f150 lightening. not saying ford hasn't done a good job appealing to the daily driver and occasional jet ski enthusiast.
@@minirail they don’t want you going on trips that will be only for the elite in the future because the common Americans will be walking everywhere they go.
@@minirail right now I don’t think any EV, even an extended range lightning, would be capable of towing a heavy 5th wheel and providing meaningful range. Ford was pretty open and honest by trying to manage expectations and being straightforward that physics doesn’t go away and range / economy should expect to be significantly reduced while towing heavy loads. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lighting could only go ~ 100 miles towing a heavy 9-10k 5th wheel in more normal conditions. Is it possible with current EV charging infrastructure? Potentially, but definitely not a walk in the park and requires significant pre-planning and contingencies. It will likely be a few more years (at minimum) until we see further advancements in both battery and charging tech that will allow for more meaningful range while towing, alongside reasonable re-charge rates to make weekend camping trips with an EV practical.
So the Lightning traveled the uphill portion of the IKE on about 3/4 of a gallon and the regular F-150 used about 2.5 gallons of gas. So...I'd say win for the lightning! Exciting stuff!
How is that a win considering at that rate the lightning would have made it 48 miles on a full battery and the hybrid would have been going for another 300+ miles
@@scottromero4004 ...and the hybrid can be filled in less than 5 minutes once the tank is empty. Agree that the Lightning did ok, but fully electric still needs work (especially battery/storage and charging infrastructure).
@@scottromero4004 because the range estimator doesn't take anything else into consideration than current rate of consumption. It's a flawed piece of info. It would be like only looking at your instant fuel economy on either an uphill or downhill section of your drive and saying "I can go X miles because of that info".
@@chrismann1621 that's a moot point as the Lightning does not use gas but if you were to convert gas to electricity through the onboard system of the F-150 Hybrid, it makes 7.2kWh of energy with its on-board generator at 1 gallon per hour. So if you used the Hybrid to charge back the Lighting's 21kWh used, it would take 2.9 gallons of gas vs the 2.1 gallons used in the Hybrid up the Ike. In this real world example the Hybrid wins. Many home generators produce 4-6kWh of energy per one gallon of gas used. For example, converting gas to electric with the Honda 9500 Predator at 25% load would take 3.25 gallons of gas to charge 21kWh of energy back in to the Lightning.
@@trullmann and 3 hours of the hybrid to sit and run to put the energy back into the lightning. That's an irrational comparison with that scenario. Drive to a quick charge and plug in for 10 minutes and spent about $2 on electrons or spend $5 to $10 running the hybrid. Makes no sense. All I was trying to point out was the sheer efficiency of the electric to do the same task in the same conditions.
16% going up, 7% back going down. 9% battery usage for 16 miles while towing 9,600lbs in the rocky mountains. That's pretty dang good. That's a bit over 160 mile range while towing at the max. Not bad at all.
I'm impressed by the Lightnings capabilities! There is still a big divide between being capable & practical. Until the range & charging time problem is solved, this truck will remain primarily in the capable category. I do admit, it's pretty cool to see and am looking forward to the day they become practical as well.
@@SkeetMcRibb Thanks! Is that a GE -SP locomotive in your avatar picture? I spend my career maintaining & overhauling locomotives. I worked for the D&RGW, The SP & retired off the UP. I've probably spent a lot of time working on the unit you have posted.
For those that like to drive trucks as a commuter, be a weekend diy, towing here and there, sand, gravel compost. This is looking more and more like an excellent choice for most people. Thanks for the reviews you are doing with this.
Yes, I’m very interested in seeing a real world long distance tow scenario with the full electric F150. Really curious how this would compare in terms of towing and recharging with a trailer. That’s my only hesitation going full electric. Thanks for the videos TFL.
My thoughts exactly. We also tow a decent size TT with our 1/2 ton GMC and wondering how driving for 200+ miles between gas stations or charging stations will be interesting let alone figuring out how to charge , time spent charging and if any charging station has truck and trailer spots to allow space to fit vs just pulling into a gas station with no space issues and fill in a few minutes and then go without worrying about running out of battery.
ok, i'm impressed with the lightning spinning tires on acceleration with that trailer lol. hope you do the i-76 drive out to fort morgan and back with it. very cool stuff. still concerned that electric for normal towing just doesn't have it yet... but you might be changing my mind.
My 89 F150 with the 300 inline 6 will spin tires not impressed. You’ll spend more time charging than anything else plus batteries don’t create power they store it and even that’s still created by fossil fuels
If I never towed anything over any kind of distance I would go electric, if I could afford lol. The issue for me is I do tow 8300 pounds at least once a month, sometimes about 100 miles but sometimes 300 or more. Electric is not going to be able to do that realistically for a while.
@@davva360 I wouldn’t go electric simply because it’s worse for the environment leaves a larger carbon footprint and requires more natural resources to create the lithium for the batteries.
@@stevecarroll8967 I would be more likely to get an electric car than a truck (I tow distance) but won't get either anytime soon because my car is not that old. Won't be replacing it for at least 3 years. However environmental considerations have nothing to do with it.
@@davva360 I wouldn’t give a dime for all the ones on the road given all the misinformation and deception with “going green” not to mention. I’m not paying 60k for a car that doesn’t have the range of my Subaru.
A suggestion for testing the trailer brakes on the EVs, maybe put a separate small light in the wiring for the brakes or an inductive pickup and put a GoPro to see if it turns on.
15:04 Typically, EVs only activate brake lights when regenerative braking if the braking force exceeds a set amount (typically ~0.2 g). I'm not sure how the Lightning is calibrated, so it might not be an issue unless you're hard on the brakes. Knowing Ford and their truck competencies, the reason they disabled one-pedal driving in tow mode was for that exact reason. Essentially, the brake lights won't activate based on the truck's baseline regenerative braking force alone, and the only time the brake lights (and by extension, the trailer brakes) would activate is when you press the brake pedal to decelerate. While that's something I trust traditional automakers like Ford and GM to account for, I have to say, I hope that Rivian, Tesla, and EV truck start ups et. al. are watching this because this isn't something that I trust them to get right the first time. 16:20 And looking back, that could be exactly the reason. I remember watching the R1T pull and being surprised at how little energy it regenerated. That was very possibly due to activating the trailer brakes.
I would assume the Lightning's motor braking using tow/haul mode is directly comparable to an f250/350 diesel truck's tow/haul mode. I guess Andre has not driven a diesel while towing in awhile lol.
@@uhjyuff2095 It would be slightly different, in that the Lightning is converting the kinetic energy into electrical energy that is stored in the battery for later use. Essentially, the Lightning's downhill tow mode is superior to and far more effective than any diesel or gas configuration could be. But this is specifically about how much energy is being recouped because the Rivian R1T behaved very differently. When I watched the video, the amount of energy they recouped on the downhill was unacceptable from my perspective as a long-time EV driver. For the life of me, I couldn't understand why the Rivian performed so poorly, and this Lightning might have just illustrated why. Rivian's designers and engineers might not have realized that activating the brake lights engages the trailer's brakes, and as a result, the R1T recouped less energy going downhill with a heavy trailer than most EVs will recoup coasting down a hill without a load.
@@newscoulomb3705 no duh, but I am pointing out that FORD makes TRUCKS so it would unbelievably stupid for FORD to screw up something like TOW/HAUL mode when they make a f350 that has a perfectly normal working tow/haul mode!
@@uhjyuff2095 Sure, but this is something very specific to EVs that doesn't really apply to ICE trucks in any way. With an EV, there are specific protocols around when the brake lights have to engage. I'm not surprised that Ford got it right, but it means that their EV designers have an eye on trailering and towing. It also means that Ford's EV design teams aren't working in silos. All great signs!
@@newscoulomb3705 Specifically, the lightning has no diesel engine or transmission. I would say the lightning is far less technology advanced versus an F350
Andre and Nathan podcasts 👍 Andre and Tommy ride alongs together 👌. This might be yalls best setups. Nathan does great on those podcasts, and Tommy is very knowledgeable on the road.
Even though this truck can’t tow that far with this kind of load and takes a while to charge, things have really gotten a lot better with the EVs and the future is bright
At $5.00 a gallon of fuel, it cost about $10.25 to run the hybrid up the Gauntlet. At $0.13 cents per kilowat/hour at a home charger, it cost $2.73 to run the Lightning up the Gauntlet. Cost of fuel vs electric charge will definetly move buyers to the electric market. Other benefits are lower maintenace cost and the additional range gained when on regen This truck is a great buy.
That's not a fair comparison. You're using best case scenario for EV and worst case for ICE. That theory falls apart when towing, as most will tow boats or rv's hundreds and thousands of miles away from their home.
There was a test done on this another truck like this, the youtube driver charged the battery at a charge station to 100% state of charge. The station charged $30.50 for 50kWh of electricity. That would equal $12.81 for the Lightning, and also took around 1hr and 45min to charge at a fast charge station. Towing across the state for several hours you don't have the luxury of charging at home.
Been waiting a long time for this test comparison. The lightnings' wheelspin going up the on ramp made me belly laugh. I think Ford has done a remarkable job with this truck. We just need more advances in range and charging speed and I may be a shoe-in for an EV as my next truck.
@@jlaw1901 solid state would greatly increase charging max but going beyond 350kW wildly increases the cost for both momentary demand and infrastructure
@@jlaw1901 we need more density. With more of that an hour of charging every 350-400 miles of towing would be palatable for everyone but perhaps hot shot people doing it every day
@@mattbrew11 more chargers I can’t argue with but I also think we should be planning for delivering power to solid state batteries at the same time. They can store more and charge faster. Regardless, the same chargers we have now charging a solid state battery would still be an improvement over lithium.
Thank you TFL great test of the capabilitie of both EV and Hybrid. really interested to see the range test as you mentioned will be done next. I know it will show for road trips while hauling you will see the same half reduction as you would ICE it is just the big difference of 40 minute every 100 mile recharge vs 5 minute refuel. That is what everyone has to consider between the two. So best configuration is a true plug in hybrid with a larger capacity battery for in city driving and gas for towing.
Thanks for that UNIQUE capability test of the F150 Lightning. Interstate was ~2-2.2 mi/kWh unladen. With GC ~16500 (vs 6800 truck alone), Tow GC = 2.24 x unladen curb wt. and getting 0.5 mi/kWh. Faster to 60 (without steamrolling Prius) than the TRX and temps didn’t flinch for the 8 mile grade. WOW downhill. Ford’s got capability in there. Looking forward to the (flatter) highway tow. Thanks again!!
I noticed you were using your Ram 2500 as your chase truck and not the Lightning when you were filming the hybrid, to me that says a lot about the real-world limitation of the Lightning.
Sounds a lot like the towing experience with my Bolt EV (utility trailer and aluminum boats). Very confident, stable, lots of power, plenty of breaking capacity via regen. With these vehicles just set the cruise control for the climb and the descent, never have to touch the pedals. Good job Ford, I hope you're working on an electric Maverick / Ranger!
@@saxel1989 My previous boat package weighed about 1000lbs on its way to the lake. I barely felt that weight behind the car. I'm now building a new boat package that will weigh about 1500lbs. Before starting that I loaded up my old boat with winter tires and blocks etc. to simulate the weight of the bigger boat and drove that around to see how it would feel, and what traction would be like starting on an incline like a boat ramp. 1500lbs is more noticeable, but I was still able to comfortably drive around town in traffic without touching the brake pedal, and it would probably still out accelerate my wife's unloaded Jetta. My utility trailer gets used constantly with the highest recorded weight of about 2500lbs trailer and cargo. Had a healthy cubic yard of composted soil in there. That was not comfortable, but it was a short distance across town so taking it very easy I got there safely. With the bolt pulling a properly weighted (weight distribution) trailer,
@@1607rosie That’s right. Almost all of my camping trips are close to home so it doesn’t bother me. The truck can charge at the campground on 120V. Slow of course but if the truck’s there for 48 hours it’ll gain 50-75 miles of towing range for the trip back home.
@@mattbrew11 I had a Chevy Volt. It literarily built my channel with only a 25 mile range (most of my fishing spots are within that range). Our electricity is amazingly cheap where I live. I had to sell it to get a truck so I could tow a big boat. I did tow a small boat with it lol...
Tommy. You certainly are your Father's son; you look alike, your similar mannerisms and, of course, you talk alike. However, you can certainly rapid fire information; which was really appreciated because the Lightening provided a lot of information for us. I missed two things though: Mr. Truck in a snow storm.
Mr Truck, Roman, Tommy, Nathan and Andre are all extremely good to watch. And this was no exception. Very well done very interesting had me on the edge of my seat and I’m not even a fan of ev’s. Well done gents By far the best go to truck Chanel PERIOD 👍👍👍
Based on this all that needs to happen is increased energy density in batteries. Thats not fords fault, thats science. The lightning is a home run otherwise. Very, very well done Ford and even Elon has praised them as designed for success.
Yes, Not bad for being Fords first EV truck, they are gonna get better and better later on. Same thing used to happen with power tools that only laster a few hrs, now you can use them all day long without having to recharge them.
Been looking forward to this video since the day the truck unveiled! That was sheer amazing! The available power and torque the Lightning has is sheer amazing! I also love the raw and unedited videos as well. To me, it shows what you really did to get that result. Did you guys by chance do a video super iking an EcoBoost in general? I'm curious to know how the 3.5 handles the load downhill with manual shifting.
More maths. They gained 7% downhill and used 16% uphill. The net battery used is 9%, or 11.7kWh assuming 130kWh battery size. The efficiency for the 16 miles would be 1.37 mi/kWh.
@@poolmonkey7479 You’re inability to do math and think outside the norms is pretty illogical. It’s not only practical, but the video you commented on demonstrates that it’s possible.
Imagine a F150 PlugIn Hybrid. 30 miles of electric range so you don't have to spend money on gas each day, but a great option for long distance without the hassle of charging on road.
Make it 50 miles. And this is what I’ve been wanting forever as a Chevy volt owner
Yup! My work is 3 miles away with free plug in electricity. I'd love a plug in F-150.
@@averagejoe112 ride a bicycle
@@TristenHernandez each mile of battery gets pretty heavy. I can settle for 30
@@WheresHerb you're a bicycle
On my scale, videos with Tommy and Andre are absolutely the best. Natural conversation versus having to push words. Thank you guys!
Thanks for the kind words!
100% Agree
@george ion No, any Telegram message from anyone claiming to be TFL is a scam
They make a great team, I really enjoy their videos.
@@heathwirt8919 I agree. It would be pretty boring if all they did was hug and compliment each other all day. Roman can be annoying but he is the boss and I can tell he has respect for the others. Roman's an ok guy.
You can see the excitement Andre has when testing trucks! Thanks for the great informative video Tommy and the legend...
Good point so true.
Glad you touched on the range issue without down playing it. The massive reduction in range when towing is going to be the Achilles' heel of EVs for the foreseeable future.
Take the kWh consumed and subtract the kWh gained with regen. That was bad the 8 miles up but not bad over 16 miles
@@steveshallenberg2994 Indeed, 10% for 16 miles makes for 160 mile range when towing in the mountains.
Compared to half tons attaining 4MPG uphill and probably 8MPG combined, they dont get further on a 20 gallon tank. -But of course fill it up in 3 minutes :D
@@tsd560ti6 that’s not what you get in a diesel. If you’re towing heavy stuff you would want a diesel because the gas engine wouldn’t work very well. A HEMI 2500 is only rated to tow about 4k lb. And you also have closer to a 30 gallon tank in most of these trucks. Most diesel trucks towing 10k lb have around 300 miles range at 10 mpg and 31 gal tank (~new diesel Ram 2500) At 12 mpg your range would be 372.
@@radcardad Huh? A diesel 3/4 ton usually have poor payloads for a 3/4 ton, usually around 2000lbs, sometimes less. A tow package equipped 3/4 ton usually have a tow rating of around 14000lbs.
@@rsbmg 😂, I must have mixed up some numbers there …
If you look at the design for the rear suspension on the Lightning, it hinges from the front, and acts like a trailing arm suspension. Most SUV's with IRS (that have sway issues) hinge from the middle. Meaning as the suspension goes up and down, the camber and track width of the rear tires change. The Lightning does not have this issue. The camber does not change at all, and the track width does not change at all. This is why it feels so solid.
It is a trailing arm design 😉
What most SxS use. Trailing arm 4-link suspension. Keeps camber and wheel arching out to a minimum, increasing stability. Also makes suspension tuning a lot more noticeable.
I’m surprised they didn’t comment more on ride quality aside from towing dynamics. Obviously it’s a towing torture test and more in the spirit of this review to focus on that, but I couldn’t help but observe the ride seemed a bit more harsh in the lighting.
Not sure if that was more noticeable because you hear the tire and road noise more as there was no constant hum of the gasoline engine, or if it was mainly audible and didn’t translate much into the cabin, but I would have liked them to comment on that more rather then mentioning the lighting felt more solid and planted (did that also result in a more bone jarring ride when going over imperfections in the road surface due to higher weight and different suspension setup)?
Ford = JUNK!!!!!!🏳🌈
Also, judging by their tug-of-war test, the traction control on electric motors is much quicker and more accurate. I believe that plays a large factor as well.
That downhill run in the Lightning is impressive. Seems like Ford nailed the tow/haul regen calibration on the truck.
I agree. It works good going down hill.
@@SnakeEater503 Well, at around 60% the truck was estimating 96 Miles of range at the top of the hill. That was based on the trailer and them getting there.
Even the uphill wasn't bad because its calculating distance at current load, you aren't going to be climbing a 7% grade the whole time and you'll get the miles back on the downhill. I think the flat ground towing will be good mileage.
@@SnakeEater503 there’s a family that tows a 30fb bunk airstream with the rivian and gets 150-180miles on a full charge.
@@RagedDoDo exactly. This is worst case scenario for an 8 minute climb that 95% of people will never do
Been loving TFL recently! Great work fellas!
Do mean The Ford Lightning lol!
Can I just say, the scenery around you guys at the beginning of the vid is just gorgeous :)
Hybrid vs Full Electric was brilliant! Awesome video!
This is the EXACT comparison I was looking for! Thank you so much TFL!
I wish you had started in Boulder and towed to the Ike to get an apples to apples comparison with the Rivian. The downhill regen was really impressive.
I concur.
Rivian should have done the Ike but I'm sure it was not allowed by pressure from others.
to do that they would have had to use the same trailer. seems like for this test they were trying to just see how capable the lightning was rather than how it tows longer distances.
@@Somebody294 When they had the Rivian, they used their own flatbed trailer hauling the old 1965 Ford F-100. The F-100 is in Arizona getting modified so they could have just hauled a similar vehicle. I think they purposely didn't tow the trailer up to the Ike because they knew it wouldn't make the whole trip and didn't want to deal with the hassle of recharging. That's what almost everyone is concerned with!
They probably signed an agreement with ford that they won't make them look bad in exchange for a discount
I just wanted to say, wow on the lightening! But also to keep in mind. It’s taken years for the gas engine or power boost to perform as well as it did. This is the 1st generation electric truck and right out of the gate it did as well and if not better than it’s gas brother. Electrification is impressive!
At the same time its not as if electric motors are new. They have been using diesel generators with electric motors in the wheels clear back in the late 1800s
I think you're thinking about it a little bit differently, the reason this is the 1st generation of F150 electric is because it's finally ready for it. It wouldn't make any sense for them to put outo put out on electric f 150 10 years ago That only had a 15 mile range and 200 horsepower.... It wouldn't sell so why would they make it. Now that electric technology is ready and will sell that's why they have finally produced it
The problem has never been with electric motors. Electric motors have always been very efficient. It's always been with the energy storage. For years the only battery technology has been lead based which made electric vehicles worthless. Even with lithium, the energy density is still 1/100th the amount of gasoline.
Gas/diesel engines are the complete opposite. They have had the crutch of having a fuel with high energy density. Gasoline has an energy density of 100x over lithium. A gas engine loses at least a third of its energy in heat alone. But no matter how inefficient they are, fueling them has always been pretty simple and quick which makes them our number one option.
It's one of the reasons why charging an electric vehicle costs less than fueling a gas vehicle. In terms of energy, you have to buy much less energy to do the same work.
@@jensalan crossing my fingers for solid state batteries!
It’s the future whether we like it or not. I myself love the V8s but also know they will be a history in just a few short years.
First let me say thank you to everyone at TFL. I first followed the channel back when it was Roman and Nathan only. Probably 8 years ago. Since then, I’ve watched your channels and stayed up to date thanks to your hard work.
I’ve gone through the Wrangler phase with your videos. Been into the high performance European market. Now looking at an F-150 of some type and your videos are fantastic. So glad to see your successes in the market and online. 😎
I remember those early days, too. Great progress by the TFL team over the years. And remember when Andre would speak only Russian on camera? Funny!
@@anthonyc1883 oh I do. That was when it was just 2 guys and a camera. Admire their push to make it to the top!
And… Motor Mountain USA pushed me to buy a Wrangler and explore the country!!
@george ion Dunno. Ask Andre. I've never heard him state a reason.
I'm beginning to see the benefit of the tow package (extra cooling). That's an incredible amount of energy discharged, and a fire hose of regenerative braking back into the battery.... all on a 400 Volt system.
This should have been a Mr Truck episode.
Mr Truck and Andre have the best towing segments and knowledge.
Thanks, I agree
Thank you so much guys! Incredible results!
66 in June sounds really nice. it currently feels like 100 in South Florida
And no damn humidity to speak of either. Feels like a damn sauna here except maybe from 1 to 7:00 a.m. 8 years I've been in this swamp & still kicking my ass!
That was impressive watching 1) the acceleration at the start of the climb - it visibly jumped when you punched it. And 2) how well used battery regen to help control your descent.
Drove the Lightning last weekend and it was incredible during my 45 minute drive
That is the most capable towing vehicle I've seen yet! You passed two broken vehicles on the way up the mountain, in complete comfort, at 60 mph and nothing about the vehicle indicated that it was in distress.
It sure looks like Ford did it right with the F150 Lightning.
The real surprise to me was how well the Eco-boost did. I would have expected it to be forced to slow down. It worked hard, but it got the job done.
I seriously hope a 2022 vehicle can do 60 up a mountain. Yikes.
How is it the most capable towing vehicle when it only has a 50 mile range from a full battery towing that trailer up a grade like that
@@scottromero4004 How many grades go uphill for mor than 50 miles in one go? It recharges the battery instead of burning up brakes on the downhill grades. While the ICE vehicles have to pull over to cool their brakes, this truck just keeps right on going.
@@bldontmatter5319 My 2013 Golf certainly can, but not while towing 5 tons.
A truck doing a wheel spin while towing nearly 10k lbs was funny and impressive to watch.
And that was punching it at 35mph with 1100 lbs of tongue weight, which is even more impressive.
@@joegibbs2508 how so??? It literally has no weight up front. A diesel in AWD or an ecoboost F150 would do the same thing! Why in the hell is everyone else X it’s about a truck being fast when there was already other fast trucks? A simple tune to an ecoboost would rape it!
@@PassionatelyOffroad Gas F150 - 4,021 to 5,740 lbs curb weight
Lightning with 131kw battery - 6,590 lbs
@@clothedandcompetent3452 diesel at 8800 lbs would do it too! It’s all about weight distribution!
I can't floor my 2006 F350 on an on ramp empty or loaded as it blows the tires loose even with 1200#'s of tongue weight and a 1500# SxS sitting on its flatbed.
Still trying to figure out how a F150 on low rolling resistance with almost 600 ft-lba of torque chirping it's tires is so amazing???
What is scary as hell is the spastic driving and variability of these tests.
Set the cruise at 64 and tell me how long it takes to go 600 miles and what the cost is. That's what I wanna know!
Love all the videos with Tomas! So knowledgeable and entertaining. Andres and Tommy make a great team to boot as well. Love it!
I had no doubt before this video that the Lighting would tow very well. It is heavy so will be very stable and will gain energy down hill. As stated all trucks lose range when towing, the only issue with the Lightning is recharge time. This means that while it is great towing a trailer around town on shorter journeys it will not be a good choice to tow across country. Not only will you have to recharge a lot, the chargers are not designed to pull into with a trailer connected which means finding somewhere to drop the trailer while you charge. Just too inconvenient. This particular test is extreme but even on normal towing you would expect the range to be halved. Overall though very impressive but I do tow 8300 pounds and when I do its over distance so it would not work for that.
You’re right, towing that much weight long distances is a deal breaker. I typically tow about the same weight - 7-8,000 lbs - but I generally never tow more than 100 miles with that weight. And I don’t typically drive more than 150 miles per day when not towing. So the Lightning would be perfect for people like me.
@@kdrain Yeah my towing is a camper so while sometimes its 100 miles or so, often it is further than that and to fairly remote locations where chargers are going to be sparse. Electric trucks don't work for me yet.
Then buy the proper truck for it. 99% of Americans are not going to be towing hundreds and hundreds of miles with a heavy load. Most of us will be using it to go to home depot or lowes, might pick up some furniture, put my rifles in the frunk and get some breakfast before i go hunting. Oh and driving 100 miles a day to work without having to pay $160 a week on gas.
@@mguerra310 I already have the proper truck to tow thanks. I am impressed with the lightning but I would be more likely to get an electric car not a truck based on what’s currently available. I do agree for a lot of people this makes perfect sense. Most people driving F250s don’t need them.
Tommy’s in the wrong business, as much as his mouth is working he needs to be a politician
I love it when Tommy says "BUT" now Andre has picked it up as well!!
Andre is a legend for sure. He is THE Truck-guy at TFL.
Thank you I been waiting for this test since September and very impressed.. can't wait for my lighting to be available
I love the chemistry between both of you!! Tommy and Andre really do compliment each other and let each other speak, providing a lot of info. Great video!!
You guys are amazing. Intelligent and relevant commentary… amazing how entertaining y’all make these tests. You can tell you guys truly love your jobs. Thanks for sharing!
I don’t know guys, but I saw that Ford Excursion keeping up with you guys all the way!
Jokes aside that Lightning was pretty impressive! Lots of power.
The into music to the Ike is comforting. Reminds me of the old days of TFL. You guys are the best.
uploaded in time for me to watch before school. Also I have to add that I am the biggest fan of big V8 tow rigs, but this lightning performed amazingly.
Awesome results. No brake applications, you had to accelerate which blows me away. And uphill spinning tires, unreal. This truck is amazing. Looking forward for mine arriving next week!
Becasue it’s AWD and only one tire spun making the chirp. The same would happen with a gas truck if in 4wd and full throttle.
it was in continuous brake application all the way down, with the motor, this is the primary method in which trains control speed as a locomotive has a diesel generator powering an electric motor to turn the wheels, works great just not so much in a flat state or driving to the grocery store.
Diesels have exhaust breaks. The last time they tested with 16,000 lbs they had to accelerate too, this isn’t anything new or special.
With the F-150 lightning, you should count throttle applications down the hill lol
I do agree with the Andre and Tommy duo. No arguing, and very informative. Loved the Veedio.
I think Andre should enter the Pikes Peak hill climb. He was blowing by traffic on the way up like they were standing still. Great Video!
Really liking this Lightning, and this test just confirmed what I felt it would do. I’m a fan.
I love how excited you guys are for EVs AND you put them through their paces like we need.
If my calculations are correct this pickup pulling a load up hill has a range of 50 miles. 16% of capacity in 8 miles. 100/16 = 6.25x8=50 mile range on a warm day. Try it at 0 degrees like many of us deal with in Winter.
Another way to check if trailer brakes are working while towing down hill is an amp clamp on the brake wire
I love how excited Andre is about the lightning. Makes me want one so bad hahaha Glad to see Tommy - you’re a great addition to the channel, bud!
Round trip was a net of 9% SOC for ~17 miles of extremes? Seems about as good as you could possibly expect. I love that regen isn't handicapped and was able to be fully leveraged on the downhill run unlike other EVs.
Yeah, they overlooked the net calculation which is more important for total range capability
I don’t think people truly appreciate how steep Ike is, I know I didn’t until I was on it for the first time about a year ago.
That is a very steep run ,,,was just up there last week ! Have driven it thirty or forty times over the years . Was towing 6k to the western slope to camp . That section of east bound I-70 is awful as far as road condition goes ,, very rough ! Not great on trucks and trailers . Very interesting video and well done guys !
I want to visit.
Haven't been over any larger hills than PA and WV.
My girlfriend and I took a trip to Colorado about a month ago and drove the IKE on our way to Aspen from Denver. We decided to take her Saturn over my F-150 5.0L for fuel economy reasons, I was astonished at how steep the IKE actually was, her little 4 cylinder Saturn struggled to maintain the speed limit going up it pulling nothing but its own weight and the downhill portion of it was even worse, despite my best efforts to manually shift and use what little engine braking that car has, I imagine we shaved about 5% off her brakes just going to Aspen and back to Denver. After experiencing the IKE first hand it really put into perspective how impressive it is that some of these trucks can not only maintain but exceed the speed limit going up the IKE with 10 to 20K behind them.
My wife's older Honda Pilot struggled when we go over the Ike... Both sides of the tunnel. And that is just for weekend runs to Steamboat and back with the family loaded in. I would not want to tow over the Ike at ALL if I can help it. What if the tunnel is closed and you have to detour over Loveland Pass??? Yikes...
@@HypoLuxa13 😂 I go to breck every week for work. I drive a CR-V and it has no trouble. People are blowing this out of proportion.
My girlfriend and I took a trip to Colorado about a month ago and drove the IKE on our way to Aspen from Denver. We decided to take her Saturn over my Ford F-150 5.0L for fuel economy reasons, I was astonished at how steep the IKE actually was, her little 4 cylinder Saturn struggled to maintain the speed limit going up it pulling nothing but its own weight and the downhill portion of it was even worse, despite my best efforts to manually shift and use what little engine braking that car has, I imagine we shaved about 5% off her brakes just going to Aspen and back to Denver. After experiencing the IKE first hand it really put into perspective how impressive it is that some of these trucks can not only maintain but exceed the speed limit going up the IKE with 10 to 20K behind them.
I would rather just slow down than go the speed limit getting 2.8 MPG up the hill like the Titan did when they tested it.
Very impressive results out of the Lightning while towing near max weight and payload up one of the steepest grades in the Country. I currently have an F150 Powerboost hybrid which I'm quite happy with but will be seriously considering a new Lightning in the next couple of years.
Love it, guys! Thanks so much for performing these tests, it really helps with decision making.
I really want to see this tow test done on the 100 mile loop, to get a better feel of how it will do for the rest of us that don't have to deal with these huge mountains.
Also I must say, Tesla really started the EV crazy but Ford, if they keep this up, will start to lead the EV market in the future.
Have to rig the old Glorified Golf Cart with a back up generator system I think....I'm fine with a hybrid but, a Glorified Golf Cart....NEVER in my life!
Teslas days are numbered by the ability of the other manufacturers to build production capacity. Might be a little hyperbolic but I think Ford could eclipse Tesla with the Lightning alone if they could build them fast enough.
@@davewood406 machE, and lightning in the US, they also have the TransitE van and other electric models in other parts of the world. Tesla can't get into that many markets especially since they don't have existing designs to make electric like Ford does.
@@rowerwet Right. Tesla was bold and pushed a market forward when the behemoths were waiting until they the time was right for whatever metric they had in mind. Tesla's are cool cars but they are learning the hard way that making a lot of cars well is hard. Some legacy manufacturers still have misses. You can't poach that ability, that infrastructure or the logistics that have taken decades to build.
Ford (and others)taking the safe route and "just" electrifying conventional designs will take EVs the rest of the way. I think Tesla can survive the foreseeable timeline, I am not predicting their demise, just diminished to one of many...
Tesla is the leader and will be for a while how many EVs they make a year last year. Oh almost 1million and that’s only two factories once Texas and Berlin get full production they will be miles more ahead of everyone. I do love that their will be competition but losing its leading spot unlikely. They are way ahead on the EV tech, manufacturing, battery supply, and chips.
Love raw and unedited!
what a great video, I used your review of the 2.7 ecoboost to help educate myself before buying a truck and travel trailer, You guys do great work please keep up the awesome videos.
I’d love to see a video on the required maintenance vs the gas or diesel Ford.
@Donovan Lewis Precisely, so why don’t any of these channels ever discuss maintenance requirements?
@@aussie2uGA because you will be replacing the electric motor before any maintenance is required. I'm betting if they're like Tesla at 100,000 miles the motor will need replaced
@@wasupfool5692 and maybe the battery? I wonder how much a battery cost
@@wasupfool5692 You do realize the a/c motors are rated for 1 million miles and the batteries for 300k-500k miles right?
@@wasupfool5692 there has been plenty of Tesla’s well over 100k miles with no motor issues.
I for one would never keep one that long though.
I love André dude!
Two best of tfl! It’s been awesome to watch Tommy come into his own over the last few years.
Can I just say Tommy makes for a great addition to the Ike with Andre. He really knows his stuff
I wasn’t really digging the energy he and Andrea had,
@@forevergoblue5826 I agree. Neither of these guys come off as truck guys, more like business partners discussing work. Mr Truck would of been a better choice for this video.
It would be interesting to know if the F-150 hybrid towing the Excursion up the Ike gets better MPG than the Excursion just driving up on it’s own. I’d be willing to bet that yes, the F-150 hybrid will use less gas.
Absolutely. That is how far we have come test basically. It's gotta get 50% better at least.
Nahh my dad had a 2000 ford excursion 7.3 diesel. It gets 16-17mpg avg empty and going up the Ike unloaded most likely around 9-10 avg
I think you guys would be perfect to test out this lightning in a real world test to show what most people are worried about: going on a road trip while towing an average travel trailer or boat.
Yes please , thats my worry as well . I live in the Denver Metro area as well and head west alot with a camper
Most of the worries are a result of not understanding the capabilities of the vehicle. If you're going on a long trip, with or without towing a trailer, the Lightning probably isn't the right choice. People need to keep their expectations in check. Ford has done a good job being upfront about driving range under varying conditions.
@@patrickford18 for those that do take trips with campers, what ev truck would you recommend? i only ask as this seems to be the direction the current admin wants the U.S. to head in. many people own full profile campers/fifthwheels, those would be the true test for the ev pick up trucks. we both know what would happen if you put a 10k lb full profile fifthwheel camper behind that f150 lightening. not saying ford hasn't done a good job appealing to the daily driver and occasional jet ski enthusiast.
@@minirail they don’t want you going on trips that will be only for the elite in the future because the common Americans will be walking everywhere they go.
@@minirail right now I don’t think any EV, even an extended range lightning, would be capable of towing a heavy 5th wheel and providing meaningful range.
Ford was pretty open and honest by trying to manage expectations and being straightforward that physics doesn’t go away and range / economy should expect to be significantly reduced while towing heavy loads. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lighting could only go ~ 100 miles towing a heavy 9-10k 5th wheel in more normal conditions.
Is it possible with current EV charging infrastructure? Potentially, but definitely not a walk in the park and requires significant pre-planning and contingencies.
It will likely be a few more years (at minimum) until we see further advancements in both battery and charging tech that will allow for more meaningful range while towing, alongside reasonable re-charge rates to make weekend camping trips with an EV practical.
I love seeing Andre and Tommy geeking out together. Great video guys!
I like the small view of the instrument screen. Great job as always
So the Lightning traveled the uphill portion of the IKE on about 3/4 of a gallon and the regular F-150 used about 2.5 gallons of gas. So...I'd say win for the lightning! Exciting stuff!
How is that a win considering at that rate the lightning would have made it 48 miles on a full battery and the hybrid would have been going for another 300+ miles
@@scottromero4004 ...and the hybrid can be filled in less than 5 minutes once the tank is empty. Agree that the Lightning did ok, but fully electric still needs work (especially battery/storage and charging infrastructure).
@@scottromero4004 because the range estimator doesn't take anything else into consideration than current rate of consumption. It's a flawed piece of info. It would be like only looking at your instant fuel economy on either an uphill or downhill section of your drive and saying "I can go X miles because of that info".
@@chrismann1621 that's a moot point as the Lightning does not use gas but if you were to convert gas to electricity through the onboard system of the F-150 Hybrid, it makes 7.2kWh of energy with its on-board generator at 1 gallon per hour. So if you used the Hybrid to charge back the Lighting's 21kWh used, it would take 2.9 gallons of gas vs the 2.1 gallons used in the Hybrid up the Ike. In this real world example the Hybrid wins. Many home generators produce 4-6kWh of energy per one gallon of gas used. For example, converting gas to electric with the Honda 9500 Predator at 25% load would take 3.25 gallons of gas to charge 21kWh of energy back in to the Lightning.
@@trullmann and 3 hours of the hybrid to sit and run to put the energy back into the lightning. That's an irrational comparison with that scenario.
Drive to a quick charge and plug in for 10 minutes and spent about $2 on electrons or spend $5 to $10 running the hybrid. Makes no sense.
All I was trying to point out was the sheer efficiency of the electric to do the same task in the same conditions.
16% going up, 7% back going down. 9% battery usage for 16 miles while towing 9,600lbs in the rocky mountains. That's pretty dang good. That's a bit over 160 mile range while towing at the max. Not bad at all.
Yeah, they overlooked the net calculation which is more important for total range capability
I'm impressed by the Lightnings capabilities! There is still a big divide between being capable & practical. Until the range & charging time problem is solved, this truck will remain primarily in the capable category. I do admit, it's pretty cool to see and am looking forward to the day they become practical as well.
I couldn't have said it better. Immense power with immense power consumption. Max towing for roughly 40-50 miles isn't quite practical.
@@SkeetMcRibb Thanks! Is that a GE -SP locomotive in your avatar picture? I spend my career maintaining & overhauling locomotives. I worked for the D&RGW, The SP & retired off the UP. I've probably spent a lot of time working on the unit you have posted.
Thanks for making these videos. I can’t wait to get my Lightning
For those that like to drive trucks as a commuter, be a weekend diy, towing here and there, sand, gravel compost. This is looking more and more like an excellent choice for most people. Thanks for the reviews you are doing with this.
I’d say that’s about 95% of half ton buyers.
Andre is a legend I completely agree 👍
I love your Ike-gauntlets so very much. Thanks for all the efforts you put into those tests!!!
👍👌💪
Yes, I’m very interested in seeing a real world long distance tow scenario with the full electric F150. Really curious how this would compare in terms of towing and recharging with a trailer. That’s my only hesitation going full electric. Thanks for the videos TFL.
My thoughts exactly. We also tow a decent size TT with our 1/2 ton GMC and wondering how driving for 200+ miles between gas stations or charging stations will be interesting let alone figuring out how to charge , time spent charging and if any charging station has truck and trailer spots to allow space to fit vs just pulling into a gas station with no space issues and fill in a few minutes and then go without worrying about running out of battery.
@ Raymond Garcia, depending on the trailer of course, this truck might get around 1.25-1.4mi/kWh out on the highway.
Best real world towing tests I’ve ever seen. Great video!
Super thoughtful, great real world analysis, would love to see this in the winter!
ok, i'm impressed with the lightning spinning tires on acceleration with that trailer lol. hope you do the i-76 drive out to fort morgan and back with it. very cool stuff. still concerned that electric for normal towing just doesn't have it yet... but you might be changing my mind.
My 89 F150 with the 300 inline 6 will spin tires not impressed. You’ll spend more time charging than anything else plus batteries don’t create power they store it and even that’s still created by fossil fuels
If I never towed anything over any kind of distance I would go electric, if I could afford lol. The issue for me is I do tow 8300 pounds at least once a month, sometimes about 100 miles but sometimes 300 or more. Electric is not going to be able to do that realistically for a while.
@@davva360 I wouldn’t go electric simply because it’s worse for the environment leaves a larger carbon footprint and requires more natural resources to create the lithium for the batteries.
@@stevecarroll8967 I would be more likely to get an electric car than a truck (I tow distance) but won't get either anytime soon because my car is not that old. Won't be replacing it for at least 3 years. However environmental considerations have nothing to do with it.
@@davva360 I wouldn’t give a dime for all the ones on the road given all the misinformation and deception with “going green” not to mention. I’m not paying 60k for a car that doesn’t have the range of my Subaru.
A suggestion for testing the trailer brakes on the EVs, maybe put a separate small light in the wiring for the brakes or an inductive pickup and put a GoPro to see if it turns on.
15:04 Typically, EVs only activate brake lights when regenerative braking if the braking force exceeds a set amount (typically ~0.2 g). I'm not sure how the Lightning is calibrated, so it might not be an issue unless you're hard on the brakes. Knowing Ford and their truck competencies, the reason they disabled one-pedal driving in tow mode was for that exact reason. Essentially, the brake lights won't activate based on the truck's baseline regenerative braking force alone, and the only time the brake lights (and by extension, the trailer brakes) would activate is when you press the brake pedal to decelerate.
While that's something I trust traditional automakers like Ford and GM to account for, I have to say, I hope that Rivian, Tesla, and EV truck start ups et. al. are watching this because this isn't something that I trust them to get right the first time. 16:20 And looking back, that could be exactly the reason. I remember watching the R1T pull and being surprised at how little energy it regenerated. That was very possibly due to activating the trailer brakes.
I would assume the Lightning's motor braking using tow/haul mode is directly comparable to an f250/350 diesel truck's tow/haul mode. I guess Andre has not driven a diesel while towing in awhile lol.
@@uhjyuff2095 It would be slightly different, in that the Lightning is converting the kinetic energy into electrical energy that is stored in the battery for later use. Essentially, the Lightning's downhill tow mode is superior to and far more effective than any diesel or gas configuration could be.
But this is specifically about how much energy is being recouped because the Rivian R1T behaved very differently. When I watched the video, the amount of energy they recouped on the downhill was unacceptable from my perspective as a long-time EV driver.
For the life of me, I couldn't understand why the Rivian performed so poorly, and this Lightning might have just illustrated why. Rivian's designers and engineers might not have realized that activating the brake lights engages the trailer's brakes, and as a result, the R1T recouped less energy going downhill with a heavy trailer than most EVs will recoup coasting down a hill without a load.
@@newscoulomb3705 no duh, but I am pointing out that FORD makes TRUCKS so it would unbelievably stupid for FORD to screw up something like TOW/HAUL mode when they make a f350 that has a perfectly normal working tow/haul mode!
@@uhjyuff2095 Sure, but this is something very specific to EVs that doesn't really apply to ICE trucks in any way. With an EV, there are specific protocols around when the brake lights have to engage.
I'm not surprised that Ford got it right, but it means that their EV designers have an eye on trailering and towing. It also means that Ford's EV design teams aren't working in silos. All great signs!
@@newscoulomb3705 Specifically, the lightning has no diesel engine or transmission. I would say the lightning is far less technology advanced versus an F350
Andre and Nathan podcasts 👍 Andre and Tommy ride alongs together 👌. This might be yalls best setups. Nathan does great on those podcasts, and Tommy is very knowledgeable on the road.
And Roman the silent partner behind the scenes….not taking on video….ever.
@@pryme2013 yes please leave grumpy Roman out
The best and the most informative and surprising video ever made, thank you all...
Even though this truck can’t tow that far with this kind of load and takes a while to charge, things have really gotten a lot better with the EVs and the future is bright
The Lightning range was same as the gas truck on the uphill run. Both listed 100 mile range.
At $5.00 a gallon of fuel, it cost about $10.25 to run the hybrid up the Gauntlet. At $0.13 cents per kilowat/hour at a home charger, it cost $2.73 to run the Lightning up the Gauntlet. Cost of fuel vs electric charge will definetly move buyers to the electric market. Other benefits are lower maintenace cost and the additional range gained when on regen This truck is a great buy.
But not for towing or longish road trips. And also you can expect electricity prices to skyrocket...
That's not a fair comparison. You're using best case scenario for EV and worst case for ICE. That theory falls apart when towing, as most will tow boats or rv's hundreds and thousands of miles away from their home.
There was a test done on this another truck like this, the youtube driver charged the battery at a charge station to 100% state of charge. The station charged $30.50 for 50kWh of electricity. That would equal $12.81 for the Lightning, and also took around 1hr and 45min to charge at a fast charge station. Towing across the state for several hours you don't have the luxury of charging at home.
@@dudeman5788 right, that's a good way to put things, ones at home ones at the pump. I remember just a few years ago paying $1.75 for gas.
Been waiting a long time for this test comparison. The lightnings' wheelspin going up the on ramp made me belly laugh. I think Ford has done a remarkable job with this truck. We just need more advances in range and charging speed and I may be a shoe-in for an EV as my next truck.
I’m crossing my fingers for solid state batteries!
@@jlaw1901 solid state would greatly increase charging max but going beyond 350kW wildly increases the cost for both momentary demand and infrastructure
@@mattbrew11 so what should be done?
@@jlaw1901 we need more density. With more of that an hour of charging every 350-400 miles of towing would be palatable for everyone but perhaps hot shot people doing it every day
@@mattbrew11 more chargers I can’t argue with but I also think we should be planning for delivering power to solid state batteries at the same time. They can store more and charge faster. Regardless, the same chargers we have now charging a solid state battery would still be an improvement over lithium.
Tommy and Andre! Best combo of the bunch! Excellent job guys!
Really enjoyed this video, great combo of Andre and Tommy.
Maybe its just me but using 16% of a battery to go uphill 8 miles is alot the regen is cool but 81k is alot for such bad range towing
Thank you TFL great test of the capabilitie of both EV and Hybrid. really interested to see the range test as you mentioned will be done next. I know it will show for road trips while hauling you will see the same half reduction as you would ICE it is just the big difference of 40 minute every 100 mile recharge vs 5 minute refuel. That is what everyone has to consider between the two. So best configuration is a true plug in hybrid with a larger capacity battery for in city driving and gas for towing.
Thanks for that UNIQUE capability test of the F150 Lightning. Interstate was ~2-2.2 mi/kWh unladen.
With GC ~16500 (vs 6800 truck alone), Tow GC = 2.24 x unladen curb wt. and getting 0.5 mi/kWh. Faster to 60 (without steamrolling Prius) than the TRX and temps didn’t flinch for the 8 mile grade. WOW downhill. Ford’s got capability in there. Looking forward to the (flatter) highway tow. Thanks again!!
I like this raw and unedited format for sure!
Thanks for the chapters!
I noticed you were using your Ram 2500 as your chase truck and not the Lightning when you were filming the hybrid, to me that says a lot about the real-world limitation of the Lightning.
That’s any EV, the battery tech and quick charging systems are just not there yet.
Sounds a lot like the towing experience with my Bolt EV (utility trailer and aluminum boats). Very confident, stable, lots of power, plenty of breaking capacity via regen. With these vehicles just set the cruise control for the climb and the descent, never have to touch the pedals. Good job Ford, I hope you're working on an electric Maverick / Ranger!
A full EV Maverick at a low cost, say $25k would have people interested if they could keep with a 300 mile range.
How much are you towing with your Bolt?
@@saxel1989 My previous boat package weighed about 1000lbs on its way to the lake. I barely felt that weight behind the car. I'm now building a new boat package that will weigh about 1500lbs. Before starting that I loaded up my old boat with winter tires and blocks etc. to simulate the weight of the bigger boat and drove that around to see how it would feel, and what traction would be like starting on an incline like a boat ramp. 1500lbs is more noticeable, but I was still able to comfortably drive around town in traffic without touching the brake pedal, and it would probably still out accelerate my wife's unloaded Jetta. My utility trailer gets used constantly with the highest recorded weight of about 2500lbs trailer and cargo. Had a healthy cubic yard of composted soil in there. That was not comfortable, but it was a short distance across town so taking it very easy I got there safely. With the bolt pulling a properly weighted (weight distribution) trailer,
The Lightning is ideal for towing: torque, regen and stability. Except for range. Still good enough for what I need to do with it.
You can also charge other EV's with the lightning as well!!😆
The only downside is the range and time to charge really inconvi Unless that doesn't bother you.
@@1607rosie That’s right. Almost all of my camping trips are close to home so it doesn’t bother me. The truck can charge at the campground on 120V. Slow of course but if the truck’s there for 48 hours it’ll gain 50-75 miles of towing range for the trip back home.
@@dylanluhowy is the Lightning not able to use 30 amp or 50 amp to change at camp grounds?
@@csh000 It can but I’d be using that for my trailer.
Great Video, Good work Tommy asking the questions and Andre giving the answers!👍👍
Very Well made video.. great job initiating new viewers to the respective hybrid/electric trucks.
Electric torque is incredible
I want to see a boat launch lol! Something an every day person would do.
Great idea!
Im shocked by this comment given your username haha 🍻
@@mattbrew11 I had a Chevy Volt. It literarily built my channel with only a 25 mile range (most of my fishing spots are within that range). Our electricity is amazingly cheap where I live. I had to sell it to get a truck so I could tow a big boat. I did tow a small boat with it lol...
Nicely done. That lighting is impressive to say the least.
Tommy. You certainly are your Father's son; you look alike, your similar mannerisms and, of course, you talk alike. However, you can certainly rapid fire information; which was really appreciated because the Lightening provided a lot of information for us. I missed two things though: Mr. Truck in a snow storm.
Yes, most of the important Ike's where in a storm
What a good video. I thoroughly enjoy watching. I feel like the little brother in the back seat!
Mr Truck, Roman, Tommy, Nathan and Andre are all extremely good to watch. And this was no exception. Very well done very interesting had me on the edge of my seat and I’m not even a fan of ev’s. Well done gents By far the best go to truck Chanel PERIOD 👍👍👍
Based on this all that needs to happen is increased energy density in batteries. Thats not fords fault, thats science. The lightning is a home run otherwise. Very, very well done Ford and even Elon has praised them as designed for success.
Yes, Not bad for being Fords first EV truck, they are gonna get better and better later on. Same thing used to happen with power tools that only laster a few hrs, now you can use them all day long without having to recharge them.
Imagine in a couple years (maybe) a F150 Lightning with solid state battery
I love you’d guys so much u all rock keep up the great work
Been looking forward to this video since the day the truck unveiled! That was sheer amazing! The available power and torque the Lightning has is sheer amazing! I also love the raw and unedited videos as well. To me, it shows what you really did to get that result. Did you guys by chance do a video super iking an EcoBoost in general? I'm curious to know how the 3.5 handles the load downhill with manual shifting.
This was amazing. You guys are the best. Can't wait.
Man, that's a handsome truck right there. And a Lightning next to it 🤠
It's time for Hybrid Tundra vs Hybrid F-150 towing battle.
Toyota would LOSE POORLY... just too heavy +800-1000lbs
@@ryandoyle4344 what? it's just 280lbs heavier than f150 powerboost.
Just curious what the f150 built-in scales showed for the rear weight due to added tongue weight.
21kWh in 8 minutes means the average power was 157kW. That's an incredible amount of electrical power.
More maths. They gained 7% downhill and used 16% uphill. The net battery used is 9%, or 11.7kWh assuming 130kWh battery size. The efficiency for the 16 miles would be 1.37 mi/kWh.
Yeah, that's a good amount of power up the hill.
..not practical
@@poolmonkey7479 You’re inability to do math and think outside the norms is pretty illogical. It’s not only practical, but the video you commented on demonstrates that it’s possible.
@@therookienomore88 ..it’s not practical for doing guy stuff, you wouldn’t know. there….
You guys are the absolute best at what you do!!!!!...
I have a 2022 Ford F-150 King Ranch SuperCrew 4x4 PowerBoost in anti-matter blue. It’s amazing, I love it!