( ruclips.net/user/MagnaInternationalTV ) Thank you to Magna for sponsoring this video! Check out the next-generation automotive and truck technology Magna produces on their RUclips channel.
@@tiattahiscupcakecandykatan2453 they don't have a Rivian yet. Once Rivian releases the Max Pack they will have another EV that can do the round trip with no charging. Silverado should have no issue either.
Well, the Hummer and GM do really help out Magna, since the Hummer has nearly double the battery size. Shocking or ironic that the HummerEV is the Hummer of the EV world LOL. The worst possible efficiency. About half that of the Lightning.
I had a Mach-E with 300 mile range and drove 168 miles daily to and from work. Summer was fine but I could not make it to and from work with the heat on if the temperature dropped below 20 degrees (F) at 100% charge to start the day. Had to stop and charge a number of times heading home from work.
@@jl4018 Pre-heating while still plugged in at home will help with this. If you unplug, then start car it has to drink some battery to heat from freezing up to optimal battery temp and cabin temp. Preheating will let you do this from the wall and save that battery for actual driving.
@@joshportelli it’ll help but also will lead the the battery going bad faster. Batteries don’t like to be plugged in while being used. Depending on how much you do it you could significantly cut the life of the battery down
I hope the manufacturers are watching what you guys are doing. This is incredibly valuable information y'all are gathering. User testing is arguably more important than any testing done by the engineering teams.
@@kevindavis5966 yeap, not every truck owner needs to tow, it doesn't make it a worthless truck. This is a limitation of current battery technology, not at the fault of Ford. Still a great truck, just for different purposes.
I'm curious to see what the results would be if you loaded up the camper with stuff and the truck with people. I suspect that the results would be remarkably different
I certainly wouldn't have bought my lightning platinum had I planned on using it anywhere but locally. It's not as much a range problem as it is there's not enough working charging stations.
There would only be one truck in the test. The Hummer has a 7500 # towing capacity. The trailer was 6100#. My RZR is about 2000# Add a family and gear water etc. another 2000#. that is about total capacity for the Ford and way over for the Hummer.
Weight has very little effect on and EV at highway cruise speeds. Weight affects the energy used on acceleration much more. Rolling resistance increase only. Aerodynamic drag is the main key variable. You could easily see that in their miles per KW/hr efficiency ratings being very close with the hummer 1000 Kg heavier.
If EV’s were really that great the market would naturally take us there. If government has a hand in their implementation you can rest assured it’s a scam.
@@tonycrabtree3416 as the tech is more readily available, that's going to change. I remember i used to plug my phone in overnight to charge. Now it takes about 30 minutes.
I was a bit surprised at that as well. Toy haulers are kryptonite for half tons when they are unloaded - way too much weight distributed up front, even if the trailer's overall weight is well within spec. I know these EV's curb weights are nothing like a half ton's, but their payload is still more comparable to an HT than an HD.
@@hyperducky a toy hauler like that after propane and batteries is pushing 900-1000 tongue. Seeing as the hummer has 1300 payload it’s most likely over its RAWR
I used 7 percent of my cell phone battery crowning the throne and watching this TFL vid. Totally worth it. 15 min 💩 break a day is one week worth of vacation at the end of the year!
Many charging stations. There's no problems with anxiety other than self induced anxiety. With about 250- 300 miles per charge on average, where would you go within your state with fear of running out of juice?
@@a675432100 anxiety is technically all self induced…but people want the ability to take their vehicle on a long road trip or tow something if only 1-2 a year..I love how all the EV fanboys try to convince everyone what their needs are
@@bryanhersman4037 I wouldn't recommend that. While most modern ICE vehicles would certainly shift gears to attempt to maintain speed, a lot of them will also apply the brakes. That might result in the brakes being used all the way down the Ike unless there is a brake temperature override in the software. This could result in a total loss of brakes and/or the brakes catching fire. Much safer in this situation to manually apply and release the brakes with a cool down period in between.
@@davidthompson4489 I think it depends more if they have hill descent control. Most modern trucks/vehicles will have that as standard. I had it on my 2018 Sierra 1500, and my wifes' 2016 Pathfinder actually has it as well.
25:15 - Not for nothing guys but, these are (for the most part) first generation EV Trucks and they performed THIS good. No overheating issues, no power issues, no braking issues, nothing broke and everything worked. You guys didn't even really have charging issues because like Roman mentioned, the charging infrastructure is more evident now. I think this is a huge win for both GM and Ford. I can only imagine how incredible the second generation EV Trucks are going to be after manufacturers process all the years of data from these first generation EV Trucks. Outstanding content in this video btw. 👌
Solid video TFL! Question, when winter comes and it’s snowing outside will you do this test again? To see the changes between 90 degrees and 15 degrees for battery performance.
Charging an EV with a trailer isn't there yet either. I use a diesel with an aux tank and I can fill 1400 miles of range in less then 10 minutes on the commercial side of a truck stop. I do think electric is the future, just not yet.
Great video. Range and faster charging stations are a big issue for long hauls in EV’s. Also, the manufacturer’s are probably limiting the charging curve rate for fear of fire and shortening battery life. EV’s are fine for around town and short trips but they are not ready for vacation trips until there are more and adequate charging stations. I think the EV technology is great but it’s not yet at the point of eliminating ICE vehicles.
I think these vehicles would have done a much better job without towing, but yeah. Currently if you want to do a truck's job you're still better off with ICE. There are probably ways of increasing battery charge but I'm not sure what the point of battery complexity vs the charge rate balance out. Who knows, if you increase the charge you might also decrease the range. I don't know enough about batteries to know what might be the hold ups.
Yes agree, not yet ready for long time towing. The hummer charges super fast, but you need to find the proper charger. The hummer performance is paining the cyber truck in a good light: hummer battery capacity with Tesla's supercharging network could lead to a top adventure vehicle.
Even with high-powered charging stations, "refueling" an EV takes a lot longer than just throwing in some gas or diesel fuel. Most refueling with gas or diesel takes about 15 minutes, including going to the restroom and grabbing a snack. Reports are that with the fastest electric recharge stations, it takes around 45 minutes to get an 80% charge.
EV tech is great for commuting, but not great for towing due to the battery capacity. The Ford lightning 131Kwh battery is equal to 3.88 gallons of gas and the hummer 212 Kwh battery is equal to 6.29 gallons of gas. They are very efficient when just commuting under there own load. The problem with EVs is when you get to high load situations like performance runs or towing, because at the end of the day you only have that 3-6 gallons of gas of potential energy. EVs are more efficient at using that energy, but a trailer still takes energy to move. The cool thing is though. If these truck use 1 Kwh per Mile that is still the equivalent of 33 mpg while towing. (24.33mpg by one of the data screens I saw). Battery capacity just has to massively improve. I figure 250-350Kwh for a car and 450-600Kwh for a truck.
I have a problem with this "have to" stuff. We shouldn't ever be told what to drive or how to power our vehicles. It's a free country, They aren't elected to do this kind of decision making. I don't get why we are letting it happen. All the money spent now or in the future won't put a dent in the climate as we are only 2% of the land mass on this Earth. It's a waste of hard earned money. We are the only ones on this fantasy tour.
This video reminds me of the olden days of TFL... the fun-havin' is contagious to the viewer. Its gold, solid gold! Nice work fellas. That said, I'd love the battery & motors of the Hummer on a Yukburban with street tires and luxury trimmings. Might weigh similar but would have better range.
Why? Just to see them go less miles. Only a dumb ass would go camping in an EV. No wait a dumb ass would not even make it to the camp site, so no worries.
It is 0% efficient when it leaves you stuck in traffic due to software bugs. Also 0% efficient when having to stop during your day to charge. Perhaps the efficiency measurement should also include a loss of personal productivity metric due to charging times.
Did a place to unhook camper, drive to charging station then go back and hook up to camper… Repeat every hour until you reach destination. Sounds like fun lol.
I love the great video comparisons that you guys do. Just wanted to share my own RV towing experience over 18 years. I’ve towed with gas (2 years) and diesel trucks and both ultralight and heavy toyhaulers over these years and covered every state west of the Mississippi River. One thing I learned early, was to ignore the idea of towing at the speed limit, especially speeds over 70 mph and definitely not up hills. My best towing experience, considering fuel efficiency and refueling worries led me to always tow around 63-66 mph. Yes, it adds to drive times, but was much more enjoyable…
Count me OUT of the EV Convo. I've hauled my show horses with my LQ trailer across the country many times. You'll NEVER see me driving one of these 'trucks'. My Chevy crew cab dually never left me stranded or out of juice and my horses were comfortable, not sitting in the stifling hot and humid trailer, waiting hours to recharge. Great informative video tho. Good job. Let me just say, I'm so happy I moved out of California. NO ONE tells me what I can or can't drive👎
@@mobility63 California isn't telling anyone what they can or can't drive. They are simply not allowing new, ICE-only vehicle sales after a certain date; only BEV, PHEV and HEV. However, California residents can still own, buy and sell used ICE-only vehicles within CA, or buy new ICE-only from another state and license in CA.
I build personal electric vehicles and I already knew the results of these test, the range is really a big issue with batteries that we have especially when the battery gets low. When you get low on battery the voltage sags which causes it do drop in current which really takes a toll on range, it really sucks how dumbed down the dash is you have no stats no way of telling how many amps your drawing the watts nor the voltage all these are really important to know. My pevs have all kinds of stats and it really depends on how you ride and how much you put it to work. Can't wait to see more vids!
@@sk8777kid1 😂im still holding to my original opinion EVs will NEVER top even 50% of the auto industry. Especially if the dumb GOV doesnt pull a Cali law and outlaw combustion engines. Good luck Cali hahaha ill stick with my Diesel Cummins
I agree EVs do have a long way to go but clearly they can’t make it there without having to charge multiple times lol . See what I did there . I made a punny
So could you imagine pumping gas for 20-30 minutes for 4 gallons of gas. The problem still exists until they get charge times down to atleast 5-15 minutes it is going to be hard justifying an electric vehicle for work or road trips
I'm with the support guys lol. I'll be hanging on to my V8 powered truck. Half the cost of even the cheapest of these two EV's, more towing capacity, and more than twice the range. Easy choice for me.
@@JOShaugh87 Right? I'm not sure why someone would willingly pay more money to buy one of these electric trucks, only to further inconvenience themselves. Because the reality is that EVs are not as environmentally friendly as some people hold them out to be.
@@josephg41 100% all the emissions required to mine the raw materials & manufacture the batteries FAR outweigh the benefits of these things. They kind of said it in this video these fully charged are the equivalent of our trucks with 4 gallons in the tank. Sure my gas powered truck might take a bit longer to get to 60, especially with a heavy trailer... but lets to a drag race to 300 miles lol. I am not against EVs by any means but have zero interest until they can go as many miles as somebody can drive in 24 hours while towing on a single charge.
@@JOShaugh87 Yeah and I want 1500hp, awd, carbon fiber wheels, all carbon fiber body, and all for 20k. I mean be realistic. 24 hours....bwahaha. If you tow 24 hours a day why are you even looking at this video? I love how many EV haters complain about everything but have zero interest in buying one. So don't worry about it. Geezzz. 24 hours on a single charge towing.....bwahaha....bwahaha....bwahaha...bwahaha...lololol
@@jostrander71 If you see my other comment I am not an EV hater at all. I drive a half ton truck, I don't tow every single day with it but I do sometimes... What I said is that these EVs represent a good start but are no where near being a practical alternative to gas/diesel powered vehicles. They are also just as bad or worse for the environment than their crude oil burning brethren. Loading, Temperature, Battery age all change constantly and it would honestly cause a lot of anxiety. The sad reality is that the battery technology is just not there yet, which this test proved. If somebody never left a 100 mile loop and would be happy plugging in their vehicle every day, which uses the same amount of electricity as a whole house air conditioner then good for them. I would be interested in an EV when they could go 750-1000 miles on a charge and be able to tow more than a couple hundred miles.
Your analogy of the paltry amount of gasoline each battery pack equates to in energy really blew my mind. I guess I'm a fan of TVs for cars as daily drivers but not so much for towing. This was very insightful and appreciate your time to make this video.
Lots of variables in real life towing - like a 30 to 40 mph head wind or a 30 to 40 mph tail wind, elevation, heat or ac needs, etc. Great video and it exposes the issues well. Thanks!
You just roll into a pump. Since it takes 5-10 min to fill up, the pump isn’t occupied. There are going to be awful lines for these chargers. How many videos have you seen where there is one good charger, and the rest are no good? Looks like fun, I’m not participating.
@@JAMESWUERTELE I do not need to watch a video, I have had my own EV for over 30 months. We had one 8 stall Tesla supercharger full and one 50 kWh charger. So 30 months of ownership and have actually only waited once for 5 minutes, the other time we just drove on to another charger.
This proves EV trucks will not perform to meet my needs as a consumer. I have F350 diesel and never have any issues at all. Thanks for the real-world test!
You should set the cruise control on the gas and diesel trucks as well on the downhill and you will find they also will hold the speed too. Most will downshift and use compression braking or an exhaust brake if they have them automatically, just like the BEVs are using their regen automatically.
Wrapping up my first week in a Gasoline Electric Hybrid half ton, this video is yet another in a long line proving I made the correct choice. I can’t afford to spend time sitting and waiting for a vehicle to charge during every time I need to work it. The cost of refueling these is way more than the $30 or $40 of electricity.
Yup... and you'll find that the charging cost at EV stations is often worse than just running on gasoline. I went on vacation in my PHEV... One charging station charged $0.25/kWh which meant AT BEST it would be equivalent to $4/gal...while gas cost $3.60/gal. I did find some FREE chargers though!
I like that you talk about the "relative efficiency" of the batteries i.e. that the ford is using the equivalent of 4 gallons of gas. As a normal gas truck uses most of the energy in the gasoline to heat the engine, and make a lot of noise. But the battery is not quite as efficient as you say, as the electricity that went into the battery was more than likely created by burning a lot of fossil fuel in a huge engine (a power station) which while more efficient than a vehicle engine, still wastes a lot of the energy in the form of heat and noise etc.
Thanks for doing these test. Can you please do this test when temperature is under freezing and compare the results? Also, what impact would the test results have if the trailers were filled with water, food and all camping supplies. Thx
If your trailer was full of the items you actually need you wouldn’t be able to skip any charging stations instead of being able to skip just one. Pathetic.
You might know Lithium batteries like to avoid being fully discharged or fully charged if maximum lifespan is the goal. The Chevy Volt charge cycle is something like 20-80%, never above or below. How would the uninformed customer feel about that if they didn't understand why?
@@adamhulu6171 Well those Prius Primes, as an example, have a 8.8Mw/h battery but Toyota really let's you use 6 to 6.5ish of those and the rest isn't used for battery life reasons. The percentage you see is a percentage of that usable range they allow you to use.
Amazing power and towing capabilities. The way they hold speed on these steep downhills is impressive as well. The battery capacity really is the Achilles heel with EV’s. I still have major doubts that electrical infrastructures can handle all of this. Great video gentlemen.
@@JAMESWUERTELE you all have know idea................. will not be good... but with the political scenes changing soon it will all be settled down and the big companies will have to go back to serving the public, their customers, vs the FU**ed government we have now....
I mean listen bro, if you tow 5 Miles at a time, it's actually great except these vehicles cost way to much to justify only being able to tow short distances in town without having to charge. If you make 4ish deliveries per day 10ish Miles each way, then if it costed less it would be worth it. But since it costs more than a vehicle that can tow across the country without having to charge for hours all along the way way too often, they just aren't reasonable if your asking me. Not even close
@@JAMESWUERTELE and the reliability, and the convenience, and the charge time, and the electronics malfunctioning, and the practicality, and the cost of the vehicle, and the repair cost, and I'm sure there is many many more.
@@SteakSauceIceCream Reliability is the one thing that EVs have massively in their favor. Only one moving part in the entire engine, instead of hundreds in an ICE. There's just nothing there to break, and standard maintenance is massively reduced too.
@@Mr.Thermistor7228 the 114 k 9000 pound 200 kw battery Hummer pick up has an 360 mile range. It can tow a 6000 pound box trailer 165 miles with 25 miles of range left in the real world TODAY. In 2022. First generation. If I told you in 2012 that you could buy A 65” 4k Color TV that weighs less than 30 pounds for $300. You would say that is impossible. That is normal in 2022. Electric trucks are here to stay. So many people that would never own a gas truck are waiting Patiently for electric trucks. They are advancing far faster than gas trucks. I along with 2 million other people are waiting on the Cybertruck.
I've used those chargers in Georgetown a few times and got 87kW on my R1T when I was the only vehicle there. However it dropped to 52kW after a while. I'm thinking it's more about it's charging curve. But there is a damn good cafe/pizza shop next to that Georgetown charger. I highly recommend it.
The battery box weighs 450 lbs? Ford needs to address this right away. Magna really dropped the ball on this, their poor design adds to the Fords heavy weight. This is the result of outsourcing parts to an aftermarket co that doesn't know what it's doing. Using Magna completely negated the use of aluminum to save weight. Small wonder that Ford has already curtailed the production of Lightnings.
these are great videos because it is "real life" objectives that people may not consider. Not in the market for an EV but the education is awesome to see how these new concepts evolve over the next few model years.
I wonder why there isn't an electricity guzzling tax if their is a gas guzzling tax. Seems like their should be and if not there should be no gas guzzling tax either. Since it's unfair uneven playing field, it creates anticompetitive market because electric cars get comfortable with government handouts helping them but government punishments crippling the competition. In the long run this isn't good for competition and advancement for either propulsion methods tbh
@@swss12 heavier than that. A 3/4 ton cummins weighs just over 7,000lbs. Maxes at 7400lbs. My titan XD weighs 7400lbs also. That hummer weighs over 9k! Thats a 2500 Ram plus a full payload!
@@TheAnnoyingBoss good point! Those coal firing plants will be burning way more coal to keep up with the power demand once more EVs hit the road. Not to mention our power grid is already overloaded as is. I foresee massive blackouts.
8:58 been driving for 30 years, never had a % of fuel left readout on my dash and have never run out of fuel. Why do you need that in an EV? You get a DTE which should be enough data to figure when you need to recharge. When my fuel gauge gets to the red, I start planning on stopping to refuel. EV battery bar goes red when it thinks you need to start looking to recharge as well.
That was interesting, the weight difference between the trucks was surprising. I can see an opportunity for the aftermarket to supply an add on dash mount mileage/efficiency calculator for those nail biter short trips towing.
It would have been interesting at the end to see how long each truck would have taken to recharge to 90%. Also, what will be curious to see as the years accumulate is how much, if any, range degradation occurs, especially if fast chargers are frequently used.
Charging to an arbitrary battery % is useless as they have different size batteries. The correct test is time it takes to reach a certain range gained from charging.
Cup & Cone 1 hour ago "Charging to an arbitrary battery % is useless as they have different size batteries." Yup. Right. In a *comparison* sense, you're correct....it would make little sense to compare vehicles in this manner since the ford should win easily by dint of it's smaller battery. In the comparison you propose, it would be a proxy for efficiency, perhaps a great COMPARISON to make. But what I suggest would be useful to INFORM people what kind of times they could be looking at at typical charge times to get to using their vehicles range. It would be EDUCATIONAL, since most of us don't drive electric vehicles, Don't have a vehicle to compare it against? Still the information of time till you're functionally fully charged/enjoy full range is a nice metric to help people learn more about the pros/cons of electric vehicles.
Most people confuse Range miles that manufactures claim with how many miles they can drive between chargers. An EV with 300 miles range means the owner will be stopping every 170 miles give or take since it would be foolish driving an EV below 30%. May be an accident and long rural detour, or EV chargers out of order. Gas stations are at practically every exit and it only requires 3 minutes to refuel so most travelers seldom drop below half a tank.
Would be better to measure to 70-80%. It's rare to charge to 90% at a DC Fast charger because charge rate tapers off fairly quickly once the battery gets to somewhere around 70-80% (Varies by battery). The Hummer EV charge rate peaks at over 300 kW so assuming it averages closer to 200kW I would expect about 45 minutes to go from 10% to 80%. This would add about 245 miles of regular driving range or about 130 miles of "towing" range based on the consumption numbers shown at the end of this video. Another way to look at it: For every 2 hours of towing you'd need to stop and charge for 45 minutes. Not great... but certainly doable if you typically just tow short distances occasionally.
The biggest reason that you can’t get to 90% is the batteries get too hot and then the charger shuts off. The quicker you charge or discharge ANY battery the hotter it gets and when the temperature reaches a certain point the built in safety system won’t let you charge anymore. Also when a battery gets hotter it wants to charge more. If you ever charged a 12 volt battery with a big battery charger that doesn’t cut back power when it’s almost done charging the voltage goes up and the electrolyte starts boiling you can ruin the battery in a hurry.
These tests are really teasing me for the actual performance of the Cybertruck I want to pull a small RV. The battery capacity similar to the hummer with the weight closer to the Lightning. So close to the 160 mile usable towing range I set as minimum requirement 10% to 80%, might be 10% to 90% charge range. How much magic will the Tesla engineers be able to pull off, as the lower cd will be basically negated while towing? I think most of these problems are the actual physics of the aerodynamic drag pulling the RV, but if anyone can squeak out another 20% performance it is those guys. Thinking battery chemistry improvements in the 4680 cells will be key. They have already solved the charging speed issues. People said they would never achieve with the Semi either, but there are solutions. Waiting for all the pieces to fall into place to actually achieve the performance they need seems to have been the right move to me. Keep up the good work as we will get there sooner or later once batteries improve more. So Close!
I've said it before and I'll say it again, EV trucks are already there for fixed-route operations and any job where you're yard-based and operating within a city and its' area, with more stop-and-go than high speed. Toy haulers may be where the profit-per-unit is fattest but it'll probably be the last to electrify.
You are 100% correct. I wish the EV haters understood what you were saying. The EVs don't fit every niche, but they sure cover a large portion of the truck owner segment.
Delusional 😂. Costs 6 times more to get one of these for the proper job. You sound like a guy that doesn’t use their car to work… we have to be realistic not a fan boi
@@bloatedtonydanza7798 100,000 miles at 14 mpg on $4.40 gas is $31,500. The electricity to drive the same in one of these trucks is less than $7500. Plus the near zero maintenance. So take whatever HD truck you're looking at and add $27-30k to the price for the first 100k over the EV.
I bought the Ram and still smiling from ear to ear... These videos just keep reinforcing the decision. Batteries are not ready for primetime real world work loads. With 50 gallons and a 1000 mile range unloaded the Ram is a treat. :-)
21:44 I love the ChargePoint Express 250s, but even in paired 125 kW configuration, they are limited to either 174 A or 200 A (70 kW to 80 kW for 400 V cars), so it's really only 800 V cars that can take advantage of the full 125 kW power rating.
Yep, we need to get rid of kW ratings on chargers, they're almost all Amp limited before Watt limited. Or at least put both a max Watt and current rating. 400V class cars get about half the rated kW rating in most cases.
I'm not ready to deal with searching for a working charging station in an area I'm not all that familiar with. Just took delivery of my new Prius in June and I couldn't be happier with it. I also have a 2019 Highlander Hybrid that has given me great service and dependability.
watch the Hoovies garage episode about the backlash to his Lighting towing test. . . .it's a joke about a misinformed comment made by Alex Jones about his RUclips channel
Hi from Sydney, Australia. very impressive reporting guys, just fact, fact, fact, giving real world usage. One of the best vehicle test films I have watched. I have a rural property 900 kilometres from Sydney. When you leave the far reaches of the Hunter River valley you have a huge mountain climb it runs near 8 miles, steep and with bad bends & goes from 150 feet above sea level to 6,500feet above sea level in a very short distance. Once at the top it is quite some distance before any public charge point is available. Your excellent presentation has really clear use levels for people to understand.
I live on the south coast of Western Australia. There is no way it is feasible to tow a caravan in country WA with either of these vehicles. Quite apart from the fact that the price in Australia is likely to exceed $AU200k. Banning internal combustion engine towing vehicles will kill the caravan industry stone dead.
@@bruiser6479 Hi there from Sydney, yep it sure will kill the caravan and "grey nomad" touring if there are no non EV's in the coming future, as the "big" island of Australia is the same size as the 48 states of America (not Alaska & Hawaii) however the difference is in Australia subtract a human head count of 310 million people & the infrastructure to go with that extra "dose" of population so with a mere 25million people , not 335million people in the SAME size land mass how on earth could we ever facilitate enough charge points to go travelling anywhere you want to. EXAMPLE if you charge ANY current EV at the last of the public charge points to my rural property you WILL NOT MAKE IT to my front door, you will run out of charge by nearly 100 kilometres (60miles) . EV's are just turds for Aussie rural use. I have a 1972 & 1974 pair of righthand drive GM-Holden Aust' built Cadillac Fleetwood Broughams with the long range export spec 40gallon/180 litre fuel tanks these giant 501 cubic inch, or 8.2 litre v8's give easy 20+ mpg fuel use on open roads which give in "old money" 800 miles travel per tank. you can drive from Sydney to Brisbane, or to Melbourne without having to stop unless for a toilet. EV's WILL NEVER DO THIS they are JUNK! To Melbourne minimum of 4 stops in an EV to charge the sucker up, if heading to Brisbane make it 5 charge-ups as a minimum how annoying having to hang around killing time waiting and waiting and waiting for the turd EV to charge up so that's HALF the travel time in my petrol-powered cars. Plus, I have now owned my immaculate Black '74 Fleetwood for just gone 40 years, bought with 102,000ks on it, I have added a further 602,000ks, so now 704,00k's of abject reliability and with loving maintenance this is on its original engine, pure quality. What EV and at what price is capable of that?? NONE
With tesla superchargers I don’t think so 😬 0.21 per kw i can charge my model 3 with less than $10 bucks 😂😂 (i live in a apartment complex I don’t have place to charge in home)
@@Story_Teller_Everyone No, home charging will be more than a super charger. This is because homes get a discount till they hit X amount used for the month then switch over to a higher tier rate. In my area it jumps 3.5 time and you have to stay at that rate for 3 months. I know this because my neighbor has hit it twice in the last 3 years charging their Tesla. You also have to understand that once EV's reach 20% market share the demand on the Electric grid will force the power companies to start rationing. This will cause pike charging time rates to go up to stop people from all charging at the same time. You can't move demand from one energy type to another and the new energy type hold the same unit price. This happened in the 90's/00's with propane and the up tick in conversion vehicles.
@@jminaya90 This was only my opinion but I do not believe that for one minute. The monopoly will be in place and prices will soar. Imagine the carbon emissions from mining, transporting, manufacturing, installing, what to do with them once they fail, and developing infrastructure . I’m pretty sure they will not be using electric powered mining equipment, freighters, etc… 🤣
Here is my challenge to you. I want to see a timed towing test to go 500 miles through the mountains between an EV, and the Cummins while towing. The timed event must also include the full length of charging stops. Why you may ask,well this is the type of trip I regularly take to TN from OH to go offroading.
Hey now; we all know Hoovie's garage is well known for his towing tests 🤣 I'm glad this channel was recommended to me really neat to see the comparison
Incredible! The hummer moved itself and 6k lb trailer a total of about 15000 lb 160+ miles on just 6 gallons of gas worth of energy!! Roughly 27 miles per gallon!! The hummer made it roughly 3 hours pulling a trailer without stopping!! Not bad!!
Great video you guys. I cannot imagine how stressful this would be to take the family on a fishing trip (camping) . A 5 hour trip that is from Pueblo to wolfcreek (east fork) would take me probably 8 or 9 hours or more because of stopping to charge, I would have to bring my large generator and gasoline for it, so I could charge while we fished, the generator would be running all day long so we could just get back onto a paved road and hope to find a fast charger. I am not against electric trucks but we just are not there even close I would most likely own one if they were on the lots right now. These are city trucks. They need to build hybrids only, the infrastructure is not even close to being what is needed. There needs to be a gasoline battery maintaining generator attached at all times. If someone wants to make a few million and has the smarts start producing a small gasoline or propane maintenance generator that bolts up in the frunk with adapters for all different types of EV's. Until there are nuclear power plants 3 in each state this is not going to happen. Just plan on staying within 20 miles of where you live, if you must vacation put your VR goggles on and you can go anywhere and do anything anytime you like.
I agree with everything you are saying besides that Colorado is a very expansive state and mostly untouched with our infrastructure, as compared to New Jersey/ New York/California. Where you could find infrastructure anywhere or build new chargers within 10-20 miles of wherever you are trying to go.
@@chasemorgan2788 as one who has driven all over the country for the last 12 years, the distance given from any remote point in Colorado to a point of civilization is less than being in a remote part of CA and possibly even parts of the North East. Maybe not a individual state but there is alot of undeveloped country in NY, PA. Now if you want to talk where I live in nevada 100 to 200 miles between towns is normal and your up and down mountains the whole time. Unlike most states east of the rockies where you have a pass and then it's flat. Pretty much just driving west of the rockies would kill a light duty EV when towing I would think.
Yeah, EV trucks just aren't there yet....if they ever get there. I will agree with Roman that using the equivalent of 4 gallons of gas is impressive, but those "4 gallons" sure weigh a lot and take up a humongous amount of space. Then you fill that "gas tank" through a plastic coffee stir stick!
Looking forward to the big-battery Silverado EV. Same battery as the Hummer, but with better aero, normal all-season tires and likely less weight. Should out-tow the Hummer by a wide margin.
Being more aerodynamic when towing a 10' tall travel trailer isnt so important. It may not help at all. The hummer punching a bigger hole through the air for the trailer to pass through may actually help. Look at the cab of an 18 wheeler, its literally the size of the trailer. Also, tires probably wont change much either. I went from 275/60R20's to 315/70R17's and my towing MPG's changed an unnoticeable amount. The travel trailer's aerodynamic drag and extra drag from the additional 4 tires make the change in my trucks tires nearly imperceptible. So I am guessing the Silverado's range may not be a whole lot better.
@@Jay-me7gw Silverado is Estimated to be at 400 Miles, 71 Miles better than the Hummer, and the Hummer was already beating its estimates. The Hummer going well beyond the 329 miles unladen.
@@Nebula1701 Yes, unladen. Not with a 6000 lb brick behind it. Travel trailers tend to bring all tow vehicles into the same MPG/efficiency range as they are completely dominant in terms of the load on the engine due to the weight, aerodynamic drag, and tire drag. Any efficiency gain the Silverado will have over the hummer unloaded will become white noise with a travel trailer behind it. Also, the hummers 1000 hp motors may be better suited to the higher continuous loads of towing.
@@noneyabizz8337 Right, which is why the cab is the same profile as the trailer, which was exactly my point. If Semi's didnt tow a trailer they wouldn't put a giant wind fairing on the top. In the same regard, the hummer might not actually be bad for towing from an aerodynamic sense. Look at the new Tundra. It has a retractable air dam in the front. Mike Sweers said that they found out that the air dam actually made the aero drag worse while towing and so, when a trailer is hooked up, they retract the air dam.
Drove this route through the tunnel for over 40 years in many different vehicles. Started in Rifle CO and ended up in Denver and never had an issue or had to worry about running out of fuel. I'll stick to gasoline and diesel any day. Cute vehicles though.
The EVs definatly cheaper by far. Nut that range is atrocious. Id never buy an EV to tow my boat or camper. Even if the charging infrastructure existed I don't want to waste half my weekend at chargers towing my boat avfew hundred KM to the lake and back.
I can't speak for the Ford Lightning, but the Hummer EV is an electrified off-roader, you wouldn't buy a TRX or a Raptor R for heavy duty towing would you?
@@wilmarbarrick3194 You forgot how long will the battery last and the cost to replace and dispose of it. These are vehicles to make a person stay at home.
Now that's a perfect comparison test for today's world of new electric vehicles. I haven't watched to the end yet, but how much did it cost to fully recharge both vehicles after the run and was one really that much more efficient over the other in the end?
It's going to depend on how they charge. If they charge overnight at the office or home it would be much less than if they went to a fast charger. In a state that charges by the kWH, the Hummer will cost more to fast charge, but in a state that charges by the minute the Ford might cost more because it charges slower. The only price I saw was the $15 they spent to partially charge the Ford
For how primitive this technology is, I am impressed with both of these vehicles. This is basically a new technology for equipment other than forklifts, etc. People shouldn't be so quick to judge what they are seeing.
In 1832 Robert Anderson developed the first electric vehicle but wasn't until the 1870's or later that they became practical. So it was tried before. Like they say nothing new under the sun, it has all been done before.
@@garyburkhardt8874 not sure this is completely pertinent to my statements. Let's just say that development was mothballed to the point that it remains primitive.
Granted that the technology will get better, but that will take time. If the government would stop shoving EV's down our throats and trying to force everyone into owning one, the natural evolution wouldn't be so rough. Let people drive what they want to drive. If EV's one day become a viable "live with it everyday " option then even the most die hard ICE vehicle supporter would probably switch voluntarily.
@@BadCornflakes I think there will always be a device between gasoline and electric fans. Regardless, it took one modern company to force people to take electric cars seriously. Tesla. Not the government. And he has made believers out of a lot of people and forced legacy car manufacturers to leave their comfort zones. This is only the beginning.
My local Ford Dealer offered me a 2022 Lariat model of the Lightning with the extended battery and 1000 miles for $117,000 plus taxes and ... My 2010 Tundra SR5 has the 5.7 and I get 16 mpg and 355 miles range. Same fuel cost. Less fear of reaching a charge station. Fluctuation of range on electric. $20000 balance on loan versus $117,000 plus plus plus the extras and worries leaves me with my quiet beautiful Tundra. I am not emotionally ready for all these weird challenges. Thank you two for helping me out!!!
Well, we got our Lariat for $84k, and it still is faster than my Mustang GT. Or pretty much anything else up to it's price point. I like ours, so far. Brave new world. We traded in a Powerboost for it, which was a great compromise, but not nearly as fun to drive or as good for day to day driving and utility in town, and out to our farm, 35 miles out of town. We were putting thousands of $$$ into gas in it, which will now be kW @ .10/kW charged at home, with half our power coming from solar as well. The Powerboost was $68k, when new, not a Lariat, didn't have cooled seats, so for $16k difference, we have a truck that does almost everything we want it to do, and should catch up in fuel/maint savings pretty quickly. We'll see.
You could do a tow off diesel vs electric but using the optional 5 gallon fuel tank in the diesel in order to get a comparable anxiety level. I have avoided all EV content from this channel until now, I'm missing the ZR2 or anything else with performance differentials.
I don’t think “lowering the standard” is the correct approach. IMO, there should be ZERO “anxiety” induced by any vehicle. All the cell phone users create enough anxiety on the road as it is! 😂
169 miles on one charge for the Hummer, EV’s have a long way to go! Diesel for the win and looks like it will be for several decades. Energy Density……,,, basic science.
Someone once said: "You may not remember what they said, but you do remember how they made you feel." Your stress is memorable from this and other long distance EV tests. If I was still commuting, I would have an EV and recharge at home. I like the efficiency and how it acts like a battery backup for the whole house, but long-haul driving? Not yet.
Awesome video guys! I was stressing right along with ya!! The price of these trucks is still so out of reach for so many people. I'm sure with technology the price has got to drop at some point.
I highly doubt the price will drop in the future.. Look at gasoline cars for example, they have not gotten cheaper as technology advances, but have doubled to tripled in price!
@@daveyjones369 Yeah I like the fact also that when the Gov started rebates again mysteriously a lot of the manufacturers raised their prices by the same amount as the rebate.
I think you're confused on what the Tesla semi is designed for. There's a large portion of the segment that's not running all the way across the country. A lot of these semi trucks are doing milk runs back and forth that are less than a couple hundred miles. That's niche the Tesla semi is going to fill. I worked for the steel company that made the same 210 mile run 2 times a day every single day with a fleet of 7 trucks. The Tesla semi would be perfect for that type of application.
@@otm646 What is your idea of "prefect", that it can just do it? In that case, a regular diesel is "prefect" times 3, because they can do the route 3 times in one tank.
@@AkioWasRight A tank that's much more expensive to fuel, and the maintenance/upkeep of the Diesel truck over time will be far more expensive than the EV Semi.
@@Nebula1701 It depend on the cost of fuel vs electricity. For me here in California, it actually cost more to charge per mile than it does fuel the equivalent diesel, because electricity here is insanely expensive. Also, maintenance is always expensive for diesel, but it becomes inexpensive relative to the cost premium of an EV. I mean, some of these "Long" Range electric commercial trucks are 2-4x the price a of the equivalent diesel truck. Unless you do a lot of driving with very cheap electricity, you'll never makeup the cost anywhere. Even if the diesel truck caught fire driving away from the dealer after buying it new, you'd still be ahead with the diesel truck.
@@AkioWasRight when you are buying fleets EVs will out perform against ICE for maintenance costs and save companies money. You have regular maintenance on ICE vehicles that is just not done with EV. Upfront costs can easily be negated over the life of the vehicles and Fleets keep them for years.
Its made for offroad. The Silverado will have the same battery with much better efficiency. Should be 30% more range than the Hummer but for the cost of the Lightning.
@@bahamatodd That depends where your off road is lol, wide trails only. I think it would struggle down many of the logging roads and trails I truck down during hunting season. Then again I don't even like taking my newer F150 those places, they're pretty big too, older trucks or jeep type vehicles only.
I have towed a motorcycle with the lightning and i was suggest to not put the lightning on tow mode because it deactivates the 1 pedal driving and all the regeneration. When i tow i leave it in normal mode and i get a lot more range because it regenerates a lot more energy when its towing because of the pushing weight of the tow trailer and cargo.
Current technology/capability of electric seems to be good for passenger cars or commuting needs, but for medium to heavy loads for anything over a short amount of time then gas or diesel is still far superior.
These are first gen, this tech is still new and developing and they've seriously came so far just to get it to this point. I can only see it getting better with each iteration. I think these first Gen trucks are perfect for people who like bigger vehicles, want more storage than a passenger vehicle and occasionally might need to tow. Occasionally, because it's going to be a hassle because you'll have to plan your trip around recharging which if you don't do it all the time wouldn't be a big deal. If you're still needing a work truck for everyday use, for right now you're right stick with ice. These companies will get a lot of data back from the first gen drivers, then maybe in 2nd gen the trucks will be able to help ice truck owners make the switch to electric.
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Rivian has defeated the Hummer Ev on so many levels, why not a Ford Lighting vs Rivian Truck
Put me on team hummer.
Don't get me started.. world toughest towing?? This is the world weakest truck ever... Thanks!!
@@tiattahiscupcakecandykatan2453 they don't have a Rivian yet. Once Rivian releases the Max Pack they will have another EV that can do the round trip with no charging. Silverado should have no issue either.
Well, the Hummer and GM do really help out Magna, since the Hummer has nearly double the battery size. Shocking or ironic that the HummerEV is the Hummer of the EV world LOL. The worst possible efficiency. About half that of the Lightning.
I find the cost of the EV, the range of the EV and the time charging the EV appalling.
It’s completely unrealistic
Good thing we live in a free country with a free market with countless options to choose from…
Yep. The market will dictate this unless the government gives more money away to force these on us
You are right on the money. They are not ready for prime time.
Cool story
I would like to see a redo of this when temps drop below freezing. Would be great to simulate at -40 temps like we do in Canada.
I had a Mach-E with 300 mile range and drove 168 miles daily to and from work. Summer was fine but I could not make it to and from work with the heat on if the temperature dropped below 20 degrees (F) at 100% charge to start the day. Had to stop and charge a number of times heading home from work.
With snow tires
Spoiler, it will use more energy, especially if they turn on the heat.
@@jl4018 Pre-heating while still plugged in at home will help with this. If you unplug, then start car it has to drink some battery to heat from freezing up to optimal battery temp and cabin temp. Preheating will let you do this from the wall and save that battery for actual driving.
@@joshportelli it’ll help but also will lead the the battery going bad faster. Batteries don’t like to be plugged in while being used. Depending on how much you do it you could significantly cut the life of the battery down
I hope the manufacturers are watching what you guys are doing. This is incredibly valuable information y'all are gathering. User testing is arguably more important than any testing done by the engineering teams.
Engineers do better testing.
Users do better REPORTING.
What the engineers report back to the manufacturer only matters if the manufacturer says it matters. The same goes for what they tell their customers.
Sorry but definitely not true. The tests cover many more hours in many more conditions with much more data accounted for
@@sammccarthy6835 Which is interesting, because Ford released this EV truck in this state, for certain knowing its limitations.
@@kevindavis5966 yeap, not every truck owner needs to tow, it doesn't make it a worthless truck. This is a limitation of current battery technology, not at the fault of Ford. Still a great truck, just for different purposes.
I'm curious to see what the results would be if you loaded up the camper with stuff and the truck with people. I suspect that the results would be remarkably different
Good point
I certainly wouldn't have bought my lightning platinum had I planned on using it anywhere but locally. It's not as much a range problem as it is there's not enough working charging stations.
There would only be one truck in the test. The Hummer has a 7500 # towing capacity.
The trailer was 6100#. My RZR is about 2000# Add a family and gear water etc. another 2000#.
that is about total capacity for the Ford and way over for the Hummer.
Weight has very little effect on and EV at highway cruise speeds. Weight affects the energy used on acceleration much more. Rolling resistance increase only. Aerodynamic drag is the main key variable. You could easily see that in their miles per KW/hr efficiency ratings being very close with the hummer 1000 Kg heavier.
Great video. I’ll just stick to diesel trucks for towing and not sweat running out of energy and finding a recharge station.
For now…hehehehe….
@@BillLaBrie The people in politics wanting to ban ice cars will just get voted out when the time comes.
@@fastfreeks absolutely. There's no way the millionaires of the country will allow their car fleets to become obsolete.
@@fastfreeks Ahh. I see. Voting. Yes. Right-o!
@@redrock861 Ban won’t apply to them. Just to people like you.
I really appreciate how honest and unguarded you guys are. It makes it more fun to watch while at the same time it is very educational. Thanks!
They really do have fun with this. It shows! :D
The hummer used the same amount of energy to climb the Ike as my house uses for 24 hours in the hottest month of the year
just shows you how much gasoline pollutes.
@@user-hd8ej8yx9p And the mining and production of battery materials don't?
24 hrs of a coal burning powerplant to climb a mountain towing a trailer. Derrrrrr
If EV’s were really that great the market would naturally take us there. If government has a hand in their implementation you can rest assured it’s a scam.
@@user-hd8ej8yx9p except the gas and electricity consumed are not 1:1 consumed
Imagine how unnecessarily stressful it must be to have to constantly watch your battery life remaining when towing with an electric truck.
200% more stressful than a fossil fueled vehicle for certain
Imagine what it was like driving a car in America before there was a gas station every 10 feet. That's why people preferred horses.
@@codyfyfe 😂
@@codyfyfe imagine needing 30+ minutes to fill up a passenger vehicle.
@@tonycrabtree3416 as the tech is more readily available, that's going to change.
I remember i used to plug my phone in overnight to charge. Now it takes about 30 minutes.
For practical usefulness I would also take the Cummins. For “blowing a lot of money on a cool car I don’t need” the hummer
Imagine doing this test in winter now.....even less range!
What about when the battery gets a few years on it.
@@ruds2600 exactly. This ain't ready for this kind of transportation.
At best EV is only local commuter use at this time.
Lets hope TFL does that! Really curious how much it actually drops.
@@ruds2600 can't sell it..
Resale value on EV Pickup Trucks will be terrible. A diesel with 200,000 miles on it will probably have more value than a 5 year old Ford Lightning.
Even with air suspension to level it out, the Hummer still looks to have squatted quite a bit.
I was a bit surprised at that as well. Toy haulers are kryptonite for half tons when they are unloaded - way too much weight distributed up front, even if the trailer's overall weight is well within spec. I know these EV's curb weights are nothing like a half ton's, but their payload is still more comparable to an HT than an HD.
Agreed it seems strange since it has air suspension. My parents range rover has air suspension and tows nice and flat.
That hummer is wagging alot! It did not look like a confident towing with that truck
@@hyperducky a toy hauler like that after propane and batteries is pushing 900-1000 tongue. Seeing as the hummer has 1300 payload it’s most likely over its RAWR
@@doubled8247 they really should have been using a weight distribution hitch setup properly for this test
Never have this kind of range anxiety in my 2003 7.3L Powerstroke. And it did not cost me $80K to $115K.
And they WON'T do that comparison... nor the comparison at -10. nor with those trailers LOADED !
Right. I'm about to drive Eisenhower tunnel and Vail pass in a couple days elk hunting. 2002 7.3L Powerstroke won't even know it's loaded up. 👍🏻
But you would look at your fuel gauge?
@@jtlanden9771 good luck! Cant wait to book an Elk hunt to CO!
@@grizzlyman329 the fuel gauge doesn't tank in a matter of minutes like the battery gauges do.
I used 7 percent of my cell phone battery crowning the throne and watching this TFL vid. Totally worth it. 15 min 💩 break a day is one week worth of vacation at the end of the year!
Nice I take 30min 💩 breaks so I’m at 2 weeks!?!? Nice!!
The anxiety caused by these EVs is giving me heart palpitations.
Video induced.. as they played doomy music and were voicing concerns.. they passed by charging stations.
Many charging stations. There's no problems with anxiety other than self induced anxiety.
With about 250- 300 miles per charge on average, where would you go within your state with fear of running out of juice?
@@a675432100 lol. like 90 towing.
@@a675432100 250-300/? Divide by 3
@@a675432100 anxiety is technically all self induced…but people want the ability to take their vehicle on a long road trip or tow something if only 1-2 a year..I love how all the EV fanboys try to convince everyone what their needs are
Kudos to you guys for updating the Ike Gauntlet downhill testing parameters for electric vehicles.
They need to use the cruise on the gas and diesel models and they will find they hold the speed as well.
@@bryanhersman4037 After having used it myself, I've been pushing for this for a while now.
Should include the full recharge time in the test
@@bryanhersman4037 I wouldn't recommend that. While most modern ICE vehicles would certainly shift gears to attempt to maintain speed, a lot of them will also apply the brakes. That might result in the brakes being used all the way down the Ike unless there is a brake temperature override in the software. This could result in a total loss of brakes and/or the brakes catching fire. Much safer in this situation to manually apply and release the brakes with a cool down period in between.
@@davidthompson4489 I think it depends more if they have hill descent control. Most modern trucks/vehicles will have that as standard. I had it on my 2018 Sierra 1500, and my wifes' 2016 Pathfinder actually has it as well.
25:15 - Not for nothing guys but, these are (for the most part) first generation EV Trucks and they performed THIS good. No overheating issues, no power issues, no braking issues, nothing broke and everything worked. You guys didn't even really have charging issues because like Roman mentioned, the charging infrastructure is more evident now. I think this is a huge win for both GM and Ford. I can only imagine how incredible the second generation EV Trucks are going to be after manufacturers process all the years of data from these first generation EV Trucks.
Outstanding content in this video btw. 👌
For 100K this is absolutely garbage.
Solid video TFL! Question, when winter comes and it’s snowing outside will you do this test again? To see the changes between 90 degrees and 15 degrees for battery performance.
And oudoor recharge - does outside temp affect batteries being charged? Or do they have warming mats to keep them warm in low temps?
@@birdlady2725 I am sure they have warmers but that in itself eats battery.
And run the same test with these same trucks in 10 years. Or 20 years.
Not only will the temperature have an effect on the battery, but use of climate control drastically reduces ev range.
Prepare to be disappointed
The anxiety created by running out of power defeats any benefit of buying a vehicle like this. It’s terrifying!!
Ice baby
Current ev tech is simply not there yet for towing
Grow some stones and deal with it.
Charging an EV with a trailer isn't there yet either. I use a diesel with an aux tank and I can fill 1400 miles of range in less then 10 minutes on the commercial side of a truck stop. I do think electric is the future, just not yet.
@@goldengooch1867 Why should we have to deal with it? Electric trucks are practically useless for towing. I'm sticking with my Ford Expedition.
Great video. Range and faster charging stations are a big issue for long hauls in EV’s. Also, the manufacturer’s are probably limiting the charging curve rate for fear of fire and shortening battery life. EV’s are fine for around town and short trips but they are not ready for vacation trips until there are more and adequate charging stations. I think the EV technology is great but it’s not yet at the point of eliminating ICE vehicles.
I think these vehicles would have done a much better job without towing, but yeah. Currently if you want to do a truck's job you're still better off with ICE. There are probably ways of increasing battery charge but I'm not sure what the point of battery complexity vs the charge rate balance out. Who knows, if you increase the charge you might also decrease the range. I don't know enough about batteries to know what might be the hold ups.
Yes agree, not yet ready for long time towing. The hummer charges super fast, but you need to find the proper charger. The hummer performance is paining the cyber truck in a good light: hummer battery capacity with Tesla's supercharging network could lead to a top adventure vehicle.
I didn't even realize you have to unhook your trailer to charge your EV
Even with high-powered charging stations, "refueling" an EV takes a lot longer than just throwing in some gas or diesel fuel. Most refueling with gas or diesel takes about 15 minutes, including going to the restroom and grabbing a snack. Reports are that with the fastest electric recharge stations, it takes around 45 minutes to get an 80% charge.
EV tech is great for commuting, but not great for towing due to the battery capacity. The Ford lightning 131Kwh battery is equal to 3.88 gallons of gas and the hummer 212 Kwh battery is equal to 6.29 gallons of gas. They are very efficient when just commuting under there own load. The problem with EVs is when you get to high load situations like performance runs or towing, because at the end of the day you only have that 3-6 gallons of gas of potential energy. EVs are more efficient at using that energy, but a trailer still takes energy to move.
The cool thing is though. If these truck use 1 Kwh per Mile that is still the equivalent of 33 mpg while towing. (24.33mpg by one of the data screens I saw). Battery capacity just has to massively improve. I figure 250-350Kwh for a car and 450-600Kwh for a truck.
You guys are great. Really good info. I just don't see myself going EV until I have to.
I have a problem with this "have to" stuff. We shouldn't ever be told what to drive or how to power our vehicles. It's a free country, They aren't elected to do this kind of decision making. I don't get why we are letting it happen. All the money spent now or in the future won't put a dent in the climate as we are only 2% of the land mass on this Earth. It's a waste of hard earned money. We are the only ones on this fantasy tour.
Looks like I'll be keeping my 30 year old Dodge a while longer 👍
I'm keeping my 392 hemi charger too....
LMAO !!! Well said.
I'm just surprised your dodge hasn't rusted away yet
A no brainer, good choice
12 valve Cummins all day long
You guys are the best for REAL LIFE use! Keep doing what you are doing. We need this...
This video reminds me of the olden days of TFL... the fun-havin' is contagious to the viewer. Its gold, solid gold! Nice work fellas.
That said, I'd love the battery & motors of the Hummer on a Yukburban with street tires and luxury trimmings. Might weigh similar but would have better range.
Please do these tests this winter. Be very cool to see real world comparisons with just ambient temp differences as variables
Why? Just to see them go less miles. Only a dumb ass would go camping in an EV. No wait a dumb ass would not even make it to the camp site, so no worries.
Just reduce by 40% or so.
You use 4-6 gallons to tow which is efficient BUT you get 40-60 new gray hairs and stomachs issues from the stress of worrying if you will make it!!
Exactly
I think gas is more efficient
It is 0% efficient when it leaves you stuck in traffic due to software bugs. Also 0% efficient when having to stop during your day to charge. Perhaps the efficiency measurement should also include a loss of personal productivity metric due to charging times.
@@ocrapo9327 facts dont care what you think. Evs are more efficient.
Theyre still shit though.
Did a place to unhook camper, drive to charging station then go back and hook up to camper… Repeat every hour until you reach destination. Sounds like fun lol.
0:08 always satisfying when the tire speed matches the frame rate (almost)exactly
Not long enough.
I love the great video comparisons that you guys do. Just wanted to share my own RV towing experience over 18 years. I’ve towed with gas (2 years) and diesel trucks and both ultralight and heavy toyhaulers over these years and covered every state west of the Mississippi River. One thing I learned early, was to ignore the idea of towing at the speed limit, especially speeds over 70 mph and definitely not up hills. My best towing experience, considering fuel efficiency and refueling worries led me to always tow around 63-66 mph. Yes, it adds to drive times, but was much more enjoyable…
Yup, I'll get 20mpg at 75 mph, but almost 30mpg at 60mph
If you're waiting for them batteries to charge I don't think you're saving any time.
Count me OUT of the EV Convo. I've hauled my show horses with my LQ trailer across the country many times. You'll NEVER see me driving one of these 'trucks'. My Chevy crew cab dually never left me stranded or out of juice and my horses were comfortable, not sitting in the stifling hot and humid trailer, waiting hours to recharge. Great informative video tho. Good job. Let me just say, I'm so happy I moved out of California. NO ONE tells me what I can or can't drive👎
@@mobility63 California isn't telling anyone what they can or can't drive. They are simply not allowing new, ICE-only vehicle sales after a certain date; only BEV, PHEV and HEV. However, California residents can still own, buy and sell used ICE-only vehicles within CA, or buy new ICE-only from another state and license in CA.
@@mobility63 California is glad you are gone, they don't need more people misrepresenting changes.
I build personal electric vehicles and I already knew the results of these test, the range is really a big issue with batteries that we have especially when the battery gets low. When you get low on battery the voltage sags which causes it do drop in current which really takes a toll on range, it really sucks how dumbed down the dash is you have no stats no way of telling how many amps your drawing the watts nor the voltage all these are really important to know. My pevs have all kinds of stats and it really depends on how you ride and how much you put it to work. Can't wait to see more vids!
EV has a long way to go
Like another 20-30 years
@@sk8777kid1 by then hydrogen will overtake it
@@sk8777kid1 😂im still holding to my original opinion EVs will NEVER top even 50% of the auto industry. Especially if the dumb GOV doesnt pull a Cali law and outlaw combustion engines. Good luck Cali hahaha ill stick with my Diesel Cummins
I agree EVs do have a long way to go but clearly they can’t make it there without having to charge multiple times lol .
See what I did there . I made a punny
And will likely never get there
So could you imagine pumping gas for 20-30 minutes for 4 gallons of gas. The problem still exists until they get charge times down to atleast 5-15 minutes it is going to be hard justifying an electric vehicle for work or road trips
In 2008, lithium-ion batteries had a volumetric energy density of 55 watt-hours per liter; by 2020, that had increased to 450 watt-hours per liter.
I'm with the support guys lol. I'll be hanging on to my V8 powered truck. Half the cost of even the cheapest of these two EV's, more towing capacity, and more than twice the range. Easy choice for me.
So you don't have 8 hours to sit around charging every hundred miles?? Haha
@@JOShaugh87 Right? I'm not sure why someone would willingly pay more money to buy one of these electric trucks, only to further inconvenience themselves. Because the reality is that EVs are not as environmentally friendly as some people hold them out to be.
@@josephg41 100% all the emissions required to mine the raw materials & manufacture the batteries FAR outweigh the benefits of these things. They kind of said it in this video these fully charged are the equivalent of our trucks with 4 gallons in the tank. Sure my gas powered truck might take a bit longer to get to 60, especially with a heavy trailer... but lets to a drag race to 300 miles lol. I am not against EVs by any means but have zero interest until they can go as many miles as somebody can drive in 24 hours while towing on a single charge.
@@JOShaugh87 Yeah and I want 1500hp, awd, carbon fiber wheels, all carbon fiber body, and all for 20k. I mean be realistic. 24 hours....bwahaha. If you tow 24 hours a day why are you even looking at this video? I love how many EV haters complain about everything but have zero interest in buying one. So don't worry about it. Geezzz. 24 hours on a single charge towing.....bwahaha....bwahaha....bwahaha...bwahaha...lololol
@@jostrander71 If you see my other comment I am not an EV hater at all. I drive a half ton truck, I don't tow every single day with it but I do sometimes... What I said is that these EVs represent a good start but are no where near being a practical alternative to gas/diesel powered vehicles. They are also just as bad or worse for the environment than their crude oil burning brethren. Loading, Temperature, Battery age all change constantly and it would honestly cause a lot of anxiety. The sad reality is that the battery technology is just not there yet, which this test proved. If somebody never left a 100 mile loop and would be happy plugging in their vehicle every day, which uses the same amount of electricity as a whole house air conditioner then good for them. I would be interested in an EV when they could go 750-1000 miles on a charge and be able to tow more than a couple hundred miles.
Your analogy of the paltry amount of gasoline each battery pack equates to in energy really blew my mind. I guess I'm a fan of TVs for cars as daily drivers but not so much for towing. This was very insightful and appreciate your time to make this video.
Long live internal combustion.
ICE ICE Baby!
Lots of variables in real life towing - like a 30 to 40 mph head wind or a 30 to 40 mph tail wind, elevation, heat or ac needs, etc. Great video and it exposes the issues well. Thanks!
With a 40 mph headwind towing a box trailer, one of these EV trucks could go dead in less than 50 miles, even in the flatlands !!
Imagine if everyone had an ev how long would you have to wait to use a charger in the middle of nowhere
Until recently everyone had a fossil vehicle how long does it take to find a free pump to fill your ICE?
You just roll into a pump. Since it takes 5-10 min to fill up, the pump isn’t occupied. There are going to be awful lines for these chargers. How many videos have you seen where there is one good charger, and the rest are no good? Looks like fun, I’m not participating.
@@JAMESWUERTELE I do not need to watch a video, I have had my own EV for over 30 months. We had one 8 stall Tesla supercharger full and one 50 kWh charger. So 30 months of ownership and have actually only waited once for 5 minutes, the other time we just drove on to another charger.
@@JAMESWUERTELE more like 3 minutes unless you're driving a semi truck
@@JAMESWUERTELE The profit margins on EV chargers is much higher than selling fossil fuels and there is no need for staff on site.
This proves EV trucks will not perform to meet my needs as a consumer. I have F350 diesel and never have any issues at all. Thanks for the real-world test!
You should start tracking calories consumed while charging in addition to KW.
Yeah I would agree that would be fun to add to the video. 🍦
You should set the cruise control on the gas and diesel trucks as well on the downhill and you will find they also will hold the speed too. Most will downshift and use compression braking or an exhaust brake if they have them automatically, just like the BEVs are using their regen automatically.
Yes. They cannot explain why they refuse to use cruise control going downhill with vehicles with diesel brakes. Makes me question their motives.
Wrapping up my first week in a Gasoline Electric Hybrid half ton, this video is yet another in a long line proving I made the correct choice. I can’t afford to spend time sitting and waiting for a vehicle to charge during every time I need to work it. The cost of refueling these is way more than the $30 or $40 of electricity.
Yup... and you'll find that the charging cost at EV stations is often worse than just running on gasoline.
I went on vacation in my PHEV... One charging station charged $0.25/kWh which meant AT BEST it would be equivalent to $4/gal...while gas cost $3.60/gal.
I did find some FREE chargers though!
I like that you talk about the "relative efficiency" of the batteries i.e. that the ford is using the equivalent of 4 gallons of gas. As a normal gas truck uses most of the energy in the gasoline to heat the engine, and make a lot of noise. But the battery is not quite as efficient as you say, as the electricity that went into the battery was more than likely created by burning a lot of fossil fuel in a huge engine (a power station) which while more efficient than a vehicle engine, still wastes a lot of the energy in the form of heat and noise etc.
Thanks for doing these test. Can you please do this test when temperature is under freezing and compare the results? Also, what impact would the test results have if the trailers were filled with water, food and all camping supplies. Thx
If your trailer was full of the items you actually need you wouldn’t be able to skip any charging stations instead of being able to skip just one. Pathetic.
Spoiler, it would use alot more energy
The fact that neither truck gives the driver a real-time battery percentage is fascinating to me.
You might know Lithium batteries like to avoid being fully discharged or fully charged if maximum lifespan is the goal. The Chevy Volt charge cycle is something like 20-80%, never above or below. How would the uninformed customer feel about that if they didn't understand why?
@@adamhulu6171 Well those Prius Primes, as an example, have a 8.8Mw/h battery but Toyota really let's you use 6 to 6.5ish of those and the rest isn't used for battery life reasons. The percentage you see is a percentage of that usable range they allow you to use.
You haf to axe for it!!🤷🏻♂️
Amazing power and towing capabilities. The way they hold speed on these steep downhills is impressive as well. The battery capacity really is the Achilles heel with EV’s. I still have major doubts that electrical infrastructures can handle all of this.
Great video gentlemen.
That and having to wait for a charger. It’s coming.
@@JAMESWUERTELE you all have know idea................. will not be good... but with the political scenes changing soon it will all be settled down and the big companies will have to go back to serving the public, their customers, vs the FU**ed government we have now....
I mean listen bro, if you tow 5 Miles at a time, it's actually great except these vehicles cost way to much to justify only being able to tow short distances in town without having to charge. If you make 4ish deliveries per day 10ish Miles each way, then if it costed less it would be worth it. But since it costs more than a vehicle that can tow across the country without having to charge for hours all along the way way too often, they just aren't reasonable if your asking me. Not even close
@@JAMESWUERTELE and the reliability, and the convenience, and the charge time, and the electronics malfunctioning, and the practicality, and the cost of the vehicle, and the repair cost, and I'm sure there is many many more.
@@SteakSauceIceCream Reliability is the one thing that EVs have massively in their favor. Only one moving part in the entire engine, instead of hundreds in an ICE. There's just nothing there to break, and standard maintenance is massively reduced too.
Hybrid non plug-in trucks are the key at this time in battery evolution imho.
When I thought I couldn't want an EV truck any less hahaha. I'll check back in about 10 years.
It won’t be any better
Those trucks will be recycled by then.
5 years from now. New trucks will tow 300 miles and charge in 10 to 15 min.
@@fatboy19831 pipe dream fantasy. those numbers will never be seen. ev is a failure, just like the psychos demanding everyone gets one
@@Mr.Thermistor7228 the 114 k 9000 pound 200 kw battery Hummer pick up has an 360 mile range. It can tow a 6000 pound box trailer 165 miles with 25 miles of range left in the real world TODAY. In 2022. First generation.
If I told you in 2012 that you could buy A 65” 4k Color TV that weighs less than 30 pounds for $300. You would say that is impossible. That is normal in 2022.
Electric trucks are here to stay. So many people that would never own a gas truck are waiting Patiently for electric trucks. They are advancing far faster than gas trucks.
I along with 2 million other people are waiting on the Cybertruck.
3:30 So you are saying the electric motor is 100% efficient? 0% energy loss to heat. Got it.
I've used those chargers in Georgetown a few times and got 87kW on my R1T when I was the only vehicle there. However it dropped to 52kW after a while. I'm thinking it's more about it's charging curve.
But there is a damn good cafe/pizza shop next to that Georgetown charger. I highly recommend it.
Lol, restaurants must love EVs.
Nice to see someone with real world ownership experience chime in. Instead of the usual crowd arguing over charts and theoreticals.
@@foellerd for real brother. But seriously that cafe’s coffee cake is addictive.
The battery box weighs 450 lbs? Ford needs to address this right away. Magna really dropped the ball on this, their poor design adds to the Fords heavy weight. This is the result of outsourcing parts to an aftermarket co that doesn't know what it's doing. Using Magna completely negated the use of aluminum to save weight. Small wonder that Ford has already curtailed the production of Lightnings.
these are great videos because it is "real life" objectives that people may not consider. Not in the market for an EV but the education is awesome to see how these new concepts evolve over the next few model years.
An EV has to do better (range/capacity) than the diesel chase vehicle before I’ll ever consider it.
Its absolutely crazy and absurd how heavy that Hummer is!
It is not just the Hummer, My (on order) VW ID4 weighs exactly the same as my new Frontier PRO-4 X!
It’s literally the same weight as a full sized Cummins dodge
I wonder why there isn't an electricity guzzling tax if their is a gas guzzling tax. Seems like their should be and if not there should be no gas guzzling tax either. Since it's unfair uneven playing field, it creates anticompetitive market because electric cars get comfortable with government handouts helping them but government punishments crippling the competition. In the long run this isn't good for competition and advancement for either propulsion methods tbh
@@swss12 heavier than that. A 3/4 ton cummins weighs just over 7,000lbs. Maxes at 7400lbs. My titan XD weighs 7400lbs also. That hummer weighs over 9k! Thats a 2500 Ram plus a full payload!
@@TheAnnoyingBoss good point! Those coal firing plants will be burning way more coal to keep up with the power demand once more EVs hit the road. Not to mention our power grid is already overloaded as is. I foresee massive blackouts.
8:58 been driving for 30 years, never had a % of fuel left readout on my dash and have never run out of fuel. Why do you need that in an EV? You get a DTE which should be enough data to figure when you need to recharge. When my fuel gauge gets to the red, I start planning on stopping to refuel. EV battery bar goes red when it thinks you need to start looking to recharge as well.
That was interesting, the weight difference between the trucks was surprising. I can see an opportunity for the aftermarket to supply an add on dash mount mileage/efficiency calculator for those nail biter short trips towing.
because efficiency calculators will make a difference in their miserable towing range.
It would have been interesting at the end to see how long each truck would have taken to recharge to 90%. Also, what will be curious to see as the years accumulate is how much, if any, range degradation occurs, especially if fast chargers are frequently used.
Charging to an arbitrary battery % is useless as they have different size batteries. The correct test is time it takes to reach a certain range gained from charging.
Cup & Cone
1 hour ago
"Charging to an arbitrary battery % is useless as they have different size batteries." Yup. Right. In a *comparison* sense, you're correct....it would make little sense to compare vehicles in this manner since the ford should win easily by dint of it's smaller battery. In the comparison you propose, it would be a proxy for efficiency, perhaps a great COMPARISON to make.
But what I suggest would be useful to INFORM people what kind of times they could be looking at at typical charge times to get to using their vehicles range. It would be EDUCATIONAL, since most of us don't drive electric vehicles, Don't have a vehicle to compare it against? Still the information of time till you're functionally fully charged/enjoy full range is a nice metric to help people learn more about the pros/cons of electric vehicles.
Most people confuse Range miles that manufactures claim with how many miles they can drive between chargers. An EV with 300 miles range means the owner will be stopping every 170 miles give or take since it would be foolish driving an EV below 30%. May be an accident and long rural detour, or EV chargers out of order. Gas stations are at practically every exit and it only requires 3 minutes to refuel so most travelers seldom drop below half a tank.
Would be better to measure to 70-80%. It's rare to charge to 90% at a DC Fast charger because charge rate tapers off fairly quickly once the battery gets to somewhere around 70-80% (Varies by battery). The Hummer EV charge rate peaks at over 300 kW so assuming it averages closer to 200kW I would expect about 45 minutes to go from 10% to 80%. This would add about 245 miles of regular driving range or about 130 miles of "towing" range based on the consumption numbers shown at the end of this video. Another way to look at it: For every 2 hours of towing you'd need to stop and charge for 45 minutes. Not great... but certainly doable if you typically just tow short distances occasionally.
The biggest reason that you can’t get to 90% is the batteries get too hot and then the charger shuts off. The quicker you charge or discharge ANY battery the hotter it gets and when the temperature reaches a certain point the built in safety system won’t let you charge anymore. Also when a battery gets hotter it wants to charge more. If you ever charged a 12 volt battery with a big battery charger that doesn’t cut back power when it’s almost done charging the voltage goes up and the electrolyte starts boiling you can ruin the battery in a hurry.
As usual, interesting test TFL. "Which truck would you take?" A: I would keep the $100,000 and not spend it on a truck.
These tests are really teasing me for the actual performance of the Cybertruck I want to pull a small RV. The battery capacity similar to the hummer with the weight closer to the Lightning. So close to the 160 mile usable towing range I set as minimum requirement 10% to 80%, might be 10% to 90% charge range. How much magic will the Tesla engineers be able to pull off, as the lower cd will be basically negated while towing? I think most of these problems are the actual physics of the aerodynamic drag pulling the RV, but if anyone can squeak out another 20% performance it is those guys. Thinking battery chemistry improvements in the 4680 cells will be key. They have already solved the charging speed issues. People said they would never achieve with the Semi either, but there are solutions. Waiting for all the pieces to fall into place to actually achieve the performance they need seems to have been the right move to me. Keep up the good work as we will get there sooner or later once batteries improve more. So Close!
Wrong lol. 123 kwh battery is good for about 85-95 miles towing. And takes 50 min 10-80%. Dismal
I've said it before and I'll say it again, EV trucks are already there for fixed-route operations and any job where you're yard-based and operating within a city and its' area, with more stop-and-go than high speed. Toy haulers may be where the profit-per-unit is fattest but it'll probably be the last to electrify.
You are 100% correct. I wish the EV haters understood what you were saying. The EVs don't fit every niche, but they sure cover a large portion of the truck owner segment.
Delusional 😂. Costs 6 times more to get one of these for the proper job. You sound like a guy that doesn’t use their car to work… we have to be realistic not a fan boi
@@bloatedtonydanza7798 100,000 miles at 14 mpg on $4.40 gas is $31,500. The electricity to drive the same in one of these trucks is less than $7500. Plus the near zero maintenance. So take whatever HD truck you're looking at and add $27-30k to the price for the first 100k over the EV.
@@otm646 Thanks for running the numbers. Another point is that toy haulers are emotional purchases, fleet managers tend to be much more TCO-focused.
I bought the Ram and still smiling from ear to ear... These videos just keep reinforcing the decision. Batteries are not ready for primetime real world work loads. With 50 gallons and a 1000 mile range unloaded the Ram is a treat. :-)
Enjoy the next gasoline spike.
You must do a lot of long trips regularly.
21:44 I love the ChargePoint Express 250s, but even in paired 125 kW configuration, they are limited to either 174 A or 200 A (70 kW to 80 kW for 400 V cars), so it's really only 800 V cars that can take advantage of the full 125 kW power rating.
Yep, we need to get rid of kW ratings on chargers, they're almost all Amp limited before Watt limited. Or at least put both a max Watt and current rating. 400V class cars get about half the rated kW rating in most cases.
I'm not ready to deal with searching for a working charging station in an area I'm not all that familiar with. Just took delivery of my new Prius in June and I couldn't be happier with it. I also have a 2019 Highlander Hybrid that has given me great service and dependability.
I typically watch Hoovies Garage for it's comprehensive towing tests, but I suppose this channel did a good job too.
Lol….well, this definitely reinforced how worthless Tyler found the Lightning to be
Hoovies... lol, that is not much of a serious channel compared to TFL.
watch the Hoovies garage episode about the backlash to his Lighting towing test. . . .it's a joke about a misinformed comment made by Alex Jones about his RUclips channel
Hi from Sydney, Australia. very impressive reporting guys, just fact, fact, fact, giving real world usage. One of the best vehicle test films I have watched. I have a rural property 900 kilometres from Sydney. When you leave the far reaches of the Hunter River valley you have a huge mountain climb it runs near 8 miles, steep and with bad bends & goes from 150 feet above sea level to 6,500feet above sea level in a very short distance. Once at the top it is quite some distance before any public charge point is available. Your excellent presentation has really clear use levels for people to understand.
I live on the south coast of Western Australia. There is no way it is feasible to tow a caravan in country WA with either of these vehicles. Quite apart from the fact that the price in Australia is likely to exceed $AU200k. Banning internal combustion engine towing vehicles will kill the caravan industry stone dead.
@@bruiser6479 Hi there from Sydney, yep it sure will kill the caravan and "grey nomad" touring if there are no non EV's in the coming future, as the "big" island of Australia is the same size as the 48 states of America (not Alaska & Hawaii) however the difference is in Australia subtract a human head count of 310 million people & the infrastructure to go with that extra "dose" of population so with a mere 25million people , not 335million people in the SAME size land mass how on earth could we ever facilitate enough charge points to go travelling anywhere you want to. EXAMPLE if you charge ANY current EV at the last of the public charge points to my rural property you WILL NOT MAKE IT to my front door, you will run out of charge by nearly 100 kilometres (60miles) . EV's are just turds for Aussie rural use. I have a 1972 & 1974 pair of righthand drive GM-Holden Aust' built Cadillac Fleetwood Broughams with the long range export spec 40gallon/180 litre fuel tanks these giant 501 cubic inch, or 8.2 litre v8's give easy 20+ mpg fuel use on open roads which give in "old money" 800 miles travel per tank. you can drive from Sydney to Brisbane, or to Melbourne without having to stop unless for a toilet. EV's WILL NEVER DO THIS they are JUNK! To Melbourne minimum of 4 stops in an EV to charge the sucker up, if heading to Brisbane make it 5 charge-ups as a minimum how annoying having to hang around killing time waiting and waiting and waiting for the turd EV to charge up so that's HALF the travel time in my petrol-powered cars. Plus, I have now owned my immaculate Black '74 Fleetwood for just gone 40 years, bought with 102,000ks on it, I have added a further 602,000ks, so now 704,00k's of abject reliability and with loving maintenance this is on its original engine, pure quality. What EV and at what price is capable of that?? NONE
Unfortunately, as more EV's get on the road the price of electricity will likely be just as expensive or surpass the current price of gas.
And gas will drop with less demand, unless is taxed by government
Well at the super chargers yes. At home I think no
With tesla superchargers I don’t think so 😬 0.21 per kw i can charge my model 3 with less than $10 bucks 😂😂 (i live in a apartment complex I don’t have place to charge in home)
@@Story_Teller_Everyone No, home charging will be more than a super charger. This is because homes get a discount till they hit X amount used for the month then switch over to a higher tier rate. In my area it jumps 3.5 time and you have to stay at that rate for 3 months. I know this because my neighbor has hit it twice in the last 3 years charging their Tesla. You also have to understand that once EV's reach 20% market share the demand on the Electric grid will force the power companies to start rationing. This will cause pike charging time rates to go up to stop people from all charging at the same time.
You can't move demand from one energy type to another and the new energy type hold the same unit price. This happened in the 90's/00's with propane and the up tick in conversion vehicles.
@@jminaya90 This was only my opinion but I do not believe that for one minute. The monopoly will be in place and prices will soar. Imagine the carbon emissions from mining, transporting, manufacturing, installing, what to do with them once they fail, and developing infrastructure . I’m pretty sure they will not be using electric powered mining equipment, freighters, etc… 🤣
Here is my challenge to you. I want to see a timed towing test to go 500 miles through the mountains between an EV, and the Cummins while towing. The timed event must also include the full length of charging stops. Why you may ask,well this is the type of trip I regularly take to TN from OH to go offroading.
That Hummer should have never been made. What a POS. Spend your money elsewhere, anywhere is better than the Hummer.
But it did. It's a showcase vehicle for the Ultium platform. The Silverado and Sierra EV's will be more direct competition to the Lightning.
What a nice educational, fair, and real world video showing a lot of the trip details and information we wanted to know. Well done.
I'd take the Cummins powered support truck!
In a heartbeat
Hey now; we all know Hoovie's garage is well known for his towing tests 🤣
I'm glad this channel was recommended to me really neat to see the comparison
Info Wars said so!
Incredible! The hummer moved itself and 6k lb trailer a total of about 15000 lb 160+ miles on just 6 gallons of gas worth of energy!! Roughly 27 miles per gallon!! The hummer made it roughly 3 hours pulling a trailer without stopping!! Not bad!!
Yeah, it's $114,000 !
But no middle class citizen can afford one
@@windlinewatersports yes, very true
168 miles on a full charge! You should have never had that ice cream🤪
Still had 8% left... so closer to 180/190.
Great video you guys.
I cannot imagine how stressful this would be to take the family on a fishing trip (camping) . A 5 hour trip that is from Pueblo to wolfcreek (east fork) would take me probably 8 or 9 hours or more because of stopping to charge, I would have to bring my large generator and gasoline for it, so I could charge while we fished, the generator would be running all day long so we could just get back onto a paved road and hope to find a fast charger.
I am not against electric trucks but we just are not there even close I would most likely own one if they were on the lots right now. These are city trucks. They need to build hybrids only, the infrastructure is not even close to being what is needed. There needs to be a gasoline battery maintaining generator attached at all times. If someone wants to make a few million and has the smarts start producing a small gasoline or propane maintenance generator that bolts up in the frunk with adapters for all different types of EV's.
Until there are nuclear power plants 3 in each state this is not going to happen. Just plan on staying within 20 miles of where you live, if you must vacation put your VR goggles on and you can go anywhere and do anything anytime you like.
I agree with everything you are saying besides that Colorado is a very expansive state and mostly untouched with our infrastructure, as compared to New Jersey/ New York/California. Where you could find infrastructure anywhere or build new chargers within 10-20 miles of wherever you are trying to go.
@@chasemorgan2788 As a far norcal native, I have to disagree with you lol
@@chasemorgan2788 as one who has driven all over the country for the last 12 years, the distance given from any remote point in Colorado to a point of civilization is less than being in a remote part of CA and possibly even parts of the North East. Maybe not a individual state but there is alot of undeveloped country in NY, PA. Now if you want to talk where I live in nevada 100 to 200 miles between towns is normal and your up and down mountains the whole time. Unlike most states east of the rockies where you have a pass and then it's flat. Pretty much just driving west of the rockies would kill a light duty EV when towing I would think.
It would not be stressful because u could do it in an EV!
These are not at all practical I do really love that you guys really test everything and let people know what they are going to get into
Great job guys! I appreciate these types of comparisons.
Yeah, EV trucks just aren't there yet....if they ever get there. I will agree with Roman that using the equivalent of 4 gallons of gas is impressive, but those "4 gallons" sure weigh a lot and take up a humongous amount of space. Then you fill that "gas tank" through a plastic coffee stir stick!
Looking forward to the big-battery Silverado EV. Same battery as the Hummer, but with better aero, normal all-season tires and likely less weight. Should out-tow the Hummer by a wide margin.
Being more aerodynamic when towing a 10' tall travel trailer isnt so important. It may not help at all. The hummer punching a bigger hole through the air for the trailer to pass through may actually help. Look at the cab of an 18 wheeler, its literally the size of the trailer.
Also, tires probably wont change much either. I went from 275/60R20's to 315/70R17's and my towing MPG's changed an unnoticeable amount. The travel trailer's aerodynamic drag and extra drag from the additional 4 tires make the change in my trucks tires nearly imperceptible.
So I am guessing the Silverado's range may not be a whole lot better.
@@Jay-me7gw Silverado is Estimated to be at 400 Miles, 71 Miles better than the Hummer, and the Hummer was already beating its estimates. The Hummer going well beyond the 329 miles unladen.
@@Nebula1701 Yes, unladen. Not with a 6000 lb brick behind it. Travel trailers tend to bring all tow vehicles into the same MPG/efficiency range as they are completely dominant in terms of the load on the engine due to the weight, aerodynamic drag, and tire drag. Any efficiency gain the Silverado will have over the hummer unloaded will become white noise with a travel trailer behind it.
Also, the hummers 1000 hp motors may be better suited to the higher continuous loads of towing.
@@Jay-me7gw semis still try to be aerodynamic
@@noneyabizz8337 Right, which is why the cab is the same profile as the trailer, which was exactly my point. If Semi's didnt tow a trailer they wouldn't put a giant wind fairing on the top.
In the same regard, the hummer might not actually be bad for towing from an aerodynamic sense.
Look at the new Tundra. It has a retractable air dam in the front. Mike Sweers said that they found out that the air dam actually made the aero drag worse while towing and so, when a trailer is hooked up, they retract the air dam.
Drove this route through the tunnel for over 40 years in many different vehicles. Started in Rifle CO and ended up in Denver and never had an issue or had to worry about running out of fuel. I'll stick to gasoline and diesel any day. Cute vehicles though.
I have found that on my EV's that if I do not exceed 20mph, I get double the range over going over 40mph.
you must be fun to be around on the road
And if you drive 2 mph in a foam rubber car you'll almost never have an accident... but you'll die of old age before you get where you're going
Man I love my turbodiesel pickup, Lol!
Me too 😆
I really like that Hummer even though I’m not for EV trucks yet but you guys did a great job and I love watching your videos
try sacramento to reno, it's only a hundred miles, lol
Ike gauntlet videos helped me pick my 2021 Ram! Cool to see how an EV does. A towing video with a v6 Grand Cherokee would be cool to see.
It would probalby break down halfway up. Jeep is just a fancy way to spell Junk.
I wonder how much fuel a diesel would use during that same stretch. And how much it cost to recharge your ev’s after tow test
I wonder how much cheaper it is to acquire the diesel in the first place. Seems like that would negate any savings on the cost of recharging. 🤷♂️
The EVs definatly cheaper by far. Nut that range is atrocious. Id never buy an EV to tow my boat or camper. Even if the charging infrastructure existed I don't want to waste half my weekend at chargers towing my boat avfew hundred KM to the lake and back.
I can't speak for the Ford Lightning, but the Hummer EV is an electrified off-roader, you wouldn't buy a TRX or a Raptor R for heavy duty towing would you?
@@wilmarbarrick3194 You forgot how long will the battery last and the cost to replace and dispose of it. These are vehicles to make a person stay at home.
@@mjareacts2731 6k lbs isn't exactly "heavy duty towing" for a ½ ton truck.
It sure seems like we’ve missed a step jumping to 100% electric
Now that's a perfect comparison test for today's world of new electric vehicles. I haven't watched to the end yet, but how much did it cost to fully recharge both vehicles after the run and was one really that much more efficient over the other in the end?
It's going to depend on how they charge. If they charge overnight at the office or home it would be much less than if they went to a fast charger. In a state that charges by the kWH, the Hummer will cost more to fast charge, but in a state that charges by the minute the Ford might cost more because it charges slower.
The only price I saw was the $15 they spent to partially charge the Ford
@@kenmcclow8963 Interesting. Even just comparing the cost differences of charging would be good info for a video.
Out of all the trucks you have done over the last year and a half. I would take the hybrid f-150, by a large margin.
I agree 100% and that's why I took possesion of mine in May of this year. Fast, powerful and very fuel efficient
For how primitive this technology is, I am impressed with both of these vehicles. This is basically a new technology for equipment other than forklifts, etc. People shouldn't be so quick to judge what they are seeing.
In 1832 Robert Anderson developed the first electric vehicle but wasn't until the 1870's or later that they became practical. So it was tried before. Like they say nothing new under the sun, it has all been done before.
@@garyburkhardt8874 not sure this is completely pertinent to my statements. Let's just say that development was mothballed to the point that it remains primitive.
Granted that the technology will get better, but that will take time. If the government would stop shoving EV's down our throats and trying to force everyone into owning one, the natural evolution wouldn't be so rough. Let people drive what they want to drive. If EV's one day become a viable "live with it everyday " option then even the most die hard ICE vehicle supporter would probably switch voluntarily.
@@BadCornflakes I think there will always be a device between gasoline and electric fans. Regardless, it took one modern company to force people to take electric cars seriously. Tesla. Not the government. And he has made believers out of a lot of people and forced legacy car manufacturers to leave their comfort zones. This is only the beginning.
On forklifts I read of using dead weight steel blocks they put batteries for counterweights
My local Ford Dealer offered me a 2022 Lariat model of the Lightning with the extended battery and 1000 miles for $117,000 plus taxes and ... My 2010 Tundra SR5 has the 5.7 and I get 16 mpg and 355 miles range. Same fuel cost. Less fear of reaching a charge station. Fluctuation of range on electric. $20000 balance on loan versus $117,000 plus plus plus the extras and worries leaves me with my quiet beautiful Tundra. I am not emotionally ready for all these weird challenges. Thank you two for helping me out!!!
Well, we got our Lariat for $84k, and it still is faster than my Mustang GT. Or pretty much anything else up to it's price point. I like ours, so far. Brave new world. We traded in a Powerboost for it, which was a great compromise, but not nearly as fun to drive or as good for day to day driving and utility in town, and out to our farm, 35 miles out of town. We were putting thousands of $$$ into gas in it, which will now be kW @ .10/kW charged at home, with half our power coming from solar as well. The Powerboost was $68k, when new, not a Lariat, didn't have cooled seats, so for $16k difference, we have a truck that does almost everything we want it to do, and should catch up in fuel/maint savings pretty quickly. We'll see.
You could do a tow off diesel vs electric but using the optional 5 gallon fuel tank in the diesel in order to get a comparable anxiety level. I have avoided all EV content from this channel until now, I'm missing the ZR2 or anything else with performance differentials.
I don’t think “lowering the standard” is the correct approach. IMO, there should be ZERO “anxiety” induced by any vehicle. All the cell phone users create enough anxiety on the road as it is! 😂
169 miles on one charge for the Hummer, EV’s have a long way to go! Diesel for the win and looks like it will be for several decades. Energy Density……,,, basic science.
Someone once said: "You may not remember what they said, but you do remember how they made you feel." Your stress is memorable from this and other long distance EV tests. If I was still commuting, I would have an EV and recharge at home. I like the efficiency and how it acts like a battery backup for the whole house, but long-haul driving? Not yet.
I don’t think the e trucks are ready to do this kind of hauling yet. Maybe in the future.
Awesome video guys! I was stressing right along with ya!! The price of these trucks is still so out of reach for so many people. I'm sure with technology the price has got to drop at some point.
I highly doubt the price will drop in the future.. Look at gasoline cars for example, they have not gotten cheaper as technology advances, but have doubled to tripled in price!
@@daveyjones369 Yeah I like the fact also that when the Gov started rebates again mysteriously a lot of the manufacturers raised their prices by the same amount as the rebate.
I'm glad you spoke about energy density, it's a small factor that makes things like the Tesla semi practically impractical...
I think you're confused on what the Tesla semi is designed for. There's a large portion of the segment that's not running all the way across the country. A lot of these semi trucks are doing milk runs back and forth that are less than a couple hundred miles. That's niche the Tesla semi is going to fill.
I worked for the steel company that made the same 210 mile run 2 times a day every single day with a fleet of 7 trucks. The Tesla semi would be perfect for that type of application.
@@otm646 What is your idea of "prefect", that it can just do it? In that case, a regular diesel is "prefect" times 3, because they can do the route 3 times in one tank.
@@AkioWasRight A tank that's much more expensive to fuel, and the maintenance/upkeep of the Diesel truck over time will be far more expensive than the EV Semi.
@@Nebula1701 It depend on the cost of fuel vs electricity.
For me here in California, it actually cost more to charge per mile than it does fuel the equivalent diesel, because electricity here is insanely expensive.
Also, maintenance is always expensive for diesel, but it becomes inexpensive relative to the cost premium of an EV. I mean, some of these "Long" Range electric commercial trucks are 2-4x the price a of the equivalent diesel truck.
Unless you do a lot of driving with very cheap electricity, you'll never makeup the cost anywhere. Even if the diesel truck caught fire driving away from the dealer after buying it new, you'd still be ahead with the diesel truck.
@@AkioWasRight when you are buying fleets EVs will out perform against ICE for maintenance costs and save companies money. You have regular maintenance on ICE vehicles that is just not done with EV. Upfront costs can easily be negated over the life of the vehicles and Fleets keep them for years.
The Hummer has to do better. The bigger battery makes so much difference
It's 1 ton heavier
Its made for offroad. The Silverado will have the same battery with much better efficiency. Should be 30% more range than the Hummer but for the cost of the Lightning.
@@bahamatodd That depends where your off road is lol, wide trails only. I think it would struggle down many of the logging roads and trails I truck down during hunting season. Then again I don't even like taking my newer F150 those places, they're pretty big too, older trucks or jeep type vehicles only.
I have towed a motorcycle with the lightning and i was suggest to not put the lightning on tow mode because it deactivates the 1 pedal driving and all the regeneration. When i tow i leave it in normal mode and i get a lot more range because it regenerates a lot more energy when its towing because of the pushing weight of the tow trailer and cargo.
Just what I'd want when I'm on a trip, more anxiety of how far I can drive to get to a charging station
Bring some solar panels, if you get stuck, a weeks charge might get you an extra mile or two down the road
I can’t wait to own an ev and be stressed about range every time I drive.
Only if youre an airhead
Another great video proving that the whole electric truck thing is very expensive novelty.
Only for now. Like gas cars when they were first starting out, this too, will continue to improve over time
@@realshnx the cars still don't have enough range and take too long to charge
@@realshnx This technology can only improve as much as the power grid and the most power grids are 30+ years behind so no, it won't improve much.
Current technology/capability of electric seems to be good for passenger cars or commuting needs, but for medium to heavy loads for anything over a short amount of time then gas or diesel is still far superior.
These are first gen, this tech is still new and developing and they've seriously came so far just to get it to this point. I can only see it getting better with each iteration. I think these first Gen trucks are perfect for people who like bigger vehicles, want more storage than a passenger vehicle and occasionally might need to tow. Occasionally, because it's going to be a hassle because you'll have to plan your trip around recharging which if you don't do it all the time wouldn't be a big deal. If you're still needing a work truck for everyday use, for right now you're right stick with ice. These companies will get a lot of data back from the first gen drivers, then maybe in 2nd gen the trucks will be able to help ice truck owners make the switch to electric.