i love camping and my opinion is, that if you reserve a spot with electricity, then you can use it however you want, if you have a tent that you sleep in and use it to charge your electric vehicle, or it's a bed camper or bed mounted tint, it does not matter, and nobody should be upset about it
I agree, and I foresee campgrounds adding master breakers in order to disable non-used campsite outlet boxes so people can't just pull in and charge their EV without paying for the space and power usage. Pay for the campsite, and stay a while, maybe EV's might be a good thing, it will slow people down, maybe get them out in the wilderness more and see things they would never see otherwise.
Your comment is ambiguous. Everyone agrees that you should get whatever you paid for. However, power usage is variable, and if you're using more power than everyone else because you have to charge your EV on top of your normal camping power needs, you should pay an additional charge and not expect the extra cost of charging to be absorbed by the campsite owner, or be spread out to people who are using less power. It'll end up being like baggage fees on an airline, which entitled people hate but is something that works fairly. Those who don't have anything to bring will get a discounted rate. But for those who brought 10 bags and the kitchen sink, they should pay for it out of their own pockets.
@@fpartidafpartida So how does that follow what I said? What if I run my air conditioning AND charge my EV, am I only expected to pay for the AC's power usage but the EV is free of charge? Follow what I said. You should pay for what you use.
The charger is expecting 240 V because it has a Nema 14-50 adapter connected to it. When you then use a pigtail to connect to your TT-30 to the Nema 14-50 adapter, the charger is only seeing 120 V instead of the expected 240 V. This is why you’re not getting the blue light and charging. If charging had started, the charging box has no way to know that it should limit itself to 30 A, so it would most likely trip the breaker anyway.
Agreed. The TT-30 receptacle is only 120V, not 240V. One big clue to this is the single breaker. Notice how the 240V receptacle has a dual ganged breaker. Single breakers are 120V. The charger doesn’t understand what’s going on with the 120V input. But even if it could work, there’s not much point because at best it is Level 1 charging speed halved.
100%. Anytime you use an adapter that allows a high power device to use a lower power outlet, there is a fire/tripped breaker/melted wire risk (breakers are constantly flipped in campsites so they can get worn out). The safest bet is to only use adapters to go down. For example, sometimes campsites only have 50a breakers, but my camper is 30a. I can safely use an adapter since I will not be overloading the circuit.
Many EVSEs will be happy with an outlet that should be 240vac but is actually 120vac. The Tesla mobile connector is okay with this, for example. Most likely they had the wrong kind of dogbone which left one of the hots open, but I suppose the Ford EVSE might be extra picky.
The dongle puts the same phase of 110 on each leg of the 220, so zero net volts. Some RV appliances can handle this Normal 220 in the US is two 110 volt lines running out of phase, so one goes up when the other goes down in voltage. Weirdly that is less safe to humans than 220 on one leg like the UK.
Yup. Had the same problem. You can’t charge an EV on a TT30 if you’re using a 14-50 adapter. They do make a TT30 adapter that is designed for EVs. It switches one of the wires around to make it work. Like others have said, the charger is looking for 240, but tt30 is 120v.
The TT-30 to 14-50 adapter likely connects to 120V to both Hot legs of 14-50 and the Neutral and grounds to their respective pins. This allows the RV to get power. But EV EVSE chargers are looking across both Hot legs, which are both connected/shorted. So you need a special EV only (not for RV) adapter that will put the 120V Hot on one leg and the TT-30 neutral on the other 14-50 hot leg. This adapter will work for an EV charger, but could damage an RV. I'm looking to charge my Tesla on a TT-30 RV outlet using the 6-50 Tesla connector. Hopefully the mobile connector will work on 120V/30A from a TT-30 to 6-50 welder adapter. I wiill have to manually set charge current to 24A or less.
@@jb3246 I have the tt-30 as well as the 120v 30 amp twist lock adapters from EVSE. Being that we’re rvers we have that connection at our house as well as many of our family members homes. They both work great and push 120v at 24amps to my model 3. I call it level 1.5 charging. Will fully charge a Tesla 80kwh battery from 0-100 in less than 28 hours.
For tt30 to 14-50 to work you need an adapter that puts the hot from tt30 to hot1 on 14-50 and common from tt30 to hot2 on 14-50. The adapter from big box stores put the tt30 hot to both 14-50 hots creating 0V differential. A EV only adapter (or home made) are the only ones that will work because of how the standard adapters for RVs work.
This is the right answer. I've been charging my EV at campgrounds for a while, and you need an EV-specific TT-30 to 14-50 adapter. The regular RV adapters won't work.
@@mathieupetit6001 the Tesla portable charger is capable of doing 24A @ 120V but most EVSEs limit you to 12A (80% of a 15A circuit) or maybe 16A (80% of 20A). The car itself can also limit the power draw, reportedly my Ioniq 5 will only pull 16A @ 120V even with the Tesla charger (using a J1772 adapter) as tested by one of my fellow owners.
I work at a campground, people charging their EVs have become a relatively common occurrence. Campers are not shy about speaking their mind, and I have yet to receive a complaint from campers surrounding people who are charging their cars. The one thing I would make sure before I went to a campground to charge is that their system can actually handle it. Our new campsites which have 50 amp service can handle it no problem. Our old campsites which only have 30 amp service and only like 225 amps divided up over 40 campsites, are not really equipped to deal with that. So just try to make sure that you know in advance that you're good to go. We love all of our campers including the ones that have EVs.
Circuits are not designed to pull full power continuously. You should only draw 80% of the circuit rating when charging for more than a few minutes so you don't overheat the breaker. You'll also find that the receptacles at some campgrounds can be worn out. If you don't have a good solid connection, you'll melt your adapter/plug.
The EVSE is designed with that in mind. With a regular 120V plug it will only charge at 12A (80% of 15A), regardless of whether it's plugged into a 15A or 20A circuit, because it has no way of knowing anything about the circuit. The problem is when you start using adapters on higher amperage circuits. It doesn't look like the EVSE they are using has any way to set the charging current besides knowing which plug is installed. So if they use the 14-50 plug and an adapter to plug it into a 30A dryer circuit, that will overload the circuit because the EVSE thinks it is still allowed to use 32A.
And all EVSEs are designed to draw only 80%. Only issue is when people start to use adapters which is when it's up to the user to manually lower the amperage to 80% of the circuit rating.
if it's a 50amp breaker the actual load on the circuit is probably 32amps although the circuit is rated for 40. They should be fine. If the plug is damaged that's on the campground.
The sad part is although the electric pedestals have 50-amp breakers, the average RV site has only about 22-amps available with the older parks because many were built in the 20-30 amp 120-volt era and the transformers were never updated. This was true with the parks we managed in south central Florida. I am a fan of electric cars and we ended up leaving the last job before we could get our F-150 ordered as I added a 50/30/20 amp electric pedestal to the manager house site. The reason your 30-amp dongle did not work is because the 50-amp base adapter you were starting with expected 240 volts with both hotlines, a neutral, and a ground. The 30-amp dongle drops one of the two hot lines so it won't power it on your Ford Adapter. Ford needs to either produce a 30-amp adapter or allow you to reprogram the 20-amp to a 30-amp twist connect adapter. It's basically like the 120-volt 20-amp on steroids with 10 more added amps. I am glad you did that test as I do not think Ford figured that part out either. -David Knapp
@@danieljohnkirby9412 I am glad that all campgrounds aren't like that, but the number of underperforming electric pedestals surprises me. I remember a campground in Kansas that had 40-amp breakers instead of 50, the owner was honest and said the power company refused to bring in a larger transformer unless he paid $50,000 in neighborhood feeder upgrades. Obviously, every location will be different. Keep up the faith & someday we'll be in electric flying cars like the Jetsons. I was just born when that series was created, LOL.
Flat rate fees for anything are almost never fair on an individual basis, someone gains, someone loses. The guy with the small RV/trailer is essentially subsidizing the guy with a slightly larger RV in the same size/priced spot. The family which doesn't use the pool at the campground is subsidizing the family who do. People like to cherry pick and moan about the things they feel they are subsidizing, while staying quiet about what they receive that is subsidized by others. Campgrounds may need to rethink flat rate pricing over time if many people rock up with the likes of an F150 Lightning, or a Rivian or any other large battery vehicle. At 20c per kWh, putting 100kWh into a battery is going to consume about 120kWh and that's about $24. So they only make $10 a night on a $35 spot. Maybe EV's have to take a class C spot at $50 per night (I don't know if that's a thing but I'd imagine even today the guy with a small trailer should not be payiung as much as those guys becuase he doesn't have 3 AC units and a massive fridge/freezer and big screen TV etc etc). Or maybe there is a $10 per night EV surcharge? In any case, camp ground will adapt, they'll have to.
@@larrysmith6797 And what do you think it costs in electricity to run those big RV's for 24 hours with 3 A/C units, a large refrigerator and so on? It's not free. The Ev surcharge should be the difference between running one of those and charging a typical EV which is probably about $10. And a 100kWh battery in an EV is a rare thing, to charge something like a Chevy Bolt would take half as much, and in all cases this is assuming you are charging from 0% to 100% which any EV owner will tell you they probably never have.
My experience goes back three years but my wife and I spent 2 months camping with an EV and pop-up trailer going cross-country. We always asked if we could charge our EV in the campground and only had one owner indicate he would meter us and charge accordingly. We found another campground nearby that did not have any issues with our charging. When possible we would supercharge relatively near the campground, especially if we were staying only one night. Staying several nights with reasonable day trips and the energy usage likely averages out to a large RV. If one pulls into the campsite 50 kWh low a $10 bill goes a long way to making the campsite owner whole.
Sorry but if the campsite is not charging extra for 50 amp service, then they don’t deserve anything extra because you are using 40 Amps. A large class A running all 3 of his A/C units will use that amount as well. I can see if you were just using the site as a charging stop, but if I am hauling my camper, the end use of the electricity is none of their business. Are they going to police how many A/C units people are using?
@@cherokee180c0 Consider the class A as a small house. A small house will consume about 25 kWh/day. It seems reasonable that a class A would approach that. If I stay only one night, I am essentially using the campsite as a charging stop if I do not charge prior to arrival. For me, that can be as much as 60 kWh in addition to my modest camping needs. For those nights, I do not mind if the campsite expects additional compensation. When I stay several days, my average energy consumption will be in line with what a class A would consume on the pad. Due to possibly sketchy power distribution, I limit my charging current to 20 or 25-amperes since I have all night to charge.
Something I haven't seen mentioned here yet: A lot of campgrounds have older or inadequate electrical infrastructure, and if there's too much collective current draw across the campground it can cause brownouts. I think this plays some part in the apprehension of the other campers, and campground staff.
Absolutely right. My class A motorhome (in the summertime) does not pull the continuous load an EV does. Electrical service at many campgrounds is marginal at best.
Charging one of these is like running 4 decent size home AC units. That's a lot of juice. The grid can't handle basic stuff in cali. Imagine 4 times that amount
But EV charger only draws 32 Amps, where the 50 Amp RV would draw slot more. It's about the same as a 30 Amp RV, maybe less as the charge rate is reduced above 80%.
@@Papa-bh6zq why would an rv draw more? If you aren't running an AC. It's rarely gonna draw more than 20 amps new tvs and lights use very little power and cooking is generally gas... and even with a small AC they only draw like 8amps at 240..my 8400 btu only draws 12 at 120 so it be 6 at 240... and a 4000btu be like 3.
@@Papa-bh6zq The difference is that when you charge an EV, you are making a CONSTANT draw on the electrical system of the campground. In an RV (or your house, for that matter), not every appliance is running at full capacity at all times. You don’t run all of your lights constantly, your AC cycles on and of, your refrigerator cycles on and off, etc…. A campground full of EV’s charging would represent a WILDLY different demand scenario than a campground full of RV’s operating in typical fashion.
@@PeterJames143 The circuit might be 20 amps, but the receptacle is only 15Amps. A 20 amp receptacle has an additional slot perpendicular on one of the legs so it can accept either 15 or 20 amp plugs. Also, the charge adapter 120V dongle is a 15 Amp plug, so it's very unlikely that it would pull 20 amps. And due to the 80% continuous use rule, it's probably only pulling 12 Amps.
If you want to get an idea of much a typical 50-amp RV with 2 ACs consumes in electricity, you can use our current situation as an example. We have consumed 565.6 KWH in 24 days, which translates into 23.56 KWH per day. Both AC units run at least 12 hours per day, we have the fridge running on electric, 2 TVs and a laptop are going all day long. I hope this info helps for comparison purposes. Regarding campers not liking EVs using campgrounds for charging, is not for using the electricity, it's for using the few available spaces for non-camping purposes.
It will help me sleep at night knowing somewhere an RVer is grumbling about an EV "taking up a spot". All those damn RVs in the truck stops. I hope this video drastically increases the popularity of this activity.
That's glamping, not camping, which is what I would be doing in my EV anyway. Plus, EVs looking for a quick charge will be out of the way sooner than an RV. Blame campsites that don't have an hourly fee structure, not the EV owner.
Excellent video, thank you! I own an EV and routinely charge at campgrounds. A couple points to consider. 1. Most campgrounds have circuit breakers at the campsite as well as in a remote location, commonly referred to as the master breakers for multiple campsites. If you draw too many amps while charging your EV, you can trip a master breaker and shut off a group of campsites. Not good! 2. Some EVs can regulate the current amps for level two charging. My EV (Volvo C40) can limit amps from 6 to 48amps. I always limit the draw to 30 or less when overnight camping.
People being upset about charging at the site is lame. As mentioned, if they are worried about being fair then larger RVs should always be charged more, which happens in a few sites but most state run campsites are flat rate if you are 25ft trailer vs a 13ft teardrop using way different power. Dont see them complaining that the big RVs dont pay their fair share. And more electric trucks means less fumes at the camp site especially for busy popular sites! A couple older diesel trucks in a camp site can really mess the air quality up quick.
I would carry/use a voltmeter to check the outlets at the campsite; the voltage can very wildly in an campground. And it would be wise to include a surge protector for the same reason. Have fun !
I suggest that you take the ferry. As others have mentioned in the comments, most RV hookups are 30 amp 110v, and not a 220v circuit. The 50 amp plug-ins will be pretty scarce in any campground over 15 years old. I think your EV adventure is about five years early. But good luck with it, just the same.
Agreed, I had this issue before as well. The ground pin on the TT-30 is off. The 14-50 ground pin is opposite the neutral. Ie, the opposite of the adapter they purchased. Getting the right adapter flips this pin.
Sorry I forgot that RV parks use a 30 amp 120 volt outlet. But it doesn't really matter cuz they had a 50 to plug into and thier evse should be on at least a 40 amp outlet
@@tbpod1 No, it's not the ground pin. The RV adapter connects the TT-30 hot line to both 14-50 hot lines, providing the EVSE with zero volts instead of 120 volts.
You can dramatically reduce your charging needs by driving a more energy efficient vehicle. The Hyundai IONIQ 6 has a 140 MPGe compared to 78 MPGe for the Lightning Extended Range.
You need to get a specific TT30 to 14-50 adapter for EVs and make sure to limit the max amps to 24amps. One of the hots has to go to a neutral and the standard RV adapter doesn't do this.
Using that adapter for 125/30A is because you have NEMA 14-50 plugged in and vehicle is recognizing you don’t have 240V. Each adapter from ford and other manufacturers send info to charger of what energy to draw
I'm sure you have covered this but it seems like a good time to remember the charger is in the vehicle. The cords and the device that ford gives you to connect to a power source does nothing to control the power going into the batteries. It's only purpose is to determine the acceptability of the offered power source. i.e. voltage in the correct amplitude and phase angle.
Energy Meters at each spot. High Energy Chargers in certain spots. High Energy Parking Spots for Day use areas. Make it easy for camp site owners to get on board and offer a new kinda service while making it fair for everyone!
My family and I camp, and I wouldn’t care if an EV is charging or not, as long as: 1. I and the other campers had the power we needed. 2. The EV user is not charged an obscene amount to charge (they only pay for what they use). 3. The campground owner doesn’t get screwed, either.
Where does fair play into it? The campground is a business. They should allow ev charging with a significant upcharge of 30-50 dollars a night to play for the infrastructure improvements required to support them
The issue with the TT-30 to NEMA 14-50 is designed for RV’s, so it takes the hot wire to the two hot wires on the NEMA 14-50. So the voltage difference between the two hots on the 14-50 is zero volts. But since RV’s only use 120 volts it works fine for RV’s. You need a special EV TT-30 to NEMA 14-50 adapter that will put the 120 volts across the two hots.
my take on charging an EV at a campsite is this. If you are taking up a space with JUST the truck (no intentions of actually using it as a campsite) then yes, they should charge extra (within a reasonable price for it) but if you're actually intending to use the campsite, then the truck will be there anyways, so charging it shouldn't be that much extra if anything at all. also the reason you "dog bone" adapter didn't work is because the TT30 connector only supplies 1 leg of power, as well as neutral and ground, and the NEMA 14-50 plug does 2 legs of 120v as well as neutral and ground. so with a proper TT30 adapter that works with your charger, then that would work. as it only needs the one leg of power instead of the 2.
We set our charger amps on the Model Y for 12 amps and this is for over night at home. When camping we set our amps at 20 for overnight. This always gets us to 92% charge. Here we run the air-conditioning for sleeping. Still charging overnight is no problem to get the 90 + percent we need to get on the road the next morning. I travel often and sometimes just do a campsite instead of a motel room. Just easier to use the campsite showers and bathrooms than to check in to a motel for six hours .
I used to be an RV’r and when we plug in our RV/trailer the power from the campground would also charge any battery bank on the RV/trailer. Not much difference in practice except an EV would draw more power and take more time. If you pay for a spot, then there shouldn’t be any difference in price to you. However, if you take a parking spot away from other campers, then I’d expect some problems. When I take my eNiro on longer trips I take my portable charger unit and a 50amp and 30amp dog bones. It might take awhile, but getting power is important! Good luck on your trip.
Yep, 50 Amp plug x 80% = 40 Amps. Charger tops out at 32... not too bad. I haven't actually been able to find any 40 Amp mobile chargers. Manufacturers are probably playing it extra safe when it comes to a device that any dummy can fumble around with. FYI: The ford charge station pro, (wall mounted/hard wired) unit available for this truck can charge at 80 Amps, and requires a 100 Amp breaker. (heh, I would need a service panel upgrade!)
@@MCP647 Yeah. I had to upgrade my service panel. My house was a 100 amp service, and between adding two AC units and two 40amp EV charging circuits (we have two EVs), I didn't have enough room on the mains. I've been on the worst case scenario of setting up a property to support EVs twice now. Spendy but worth it.
We RV full time for work, we have NEVER come across a campground with 120v even brand new construction we’re lucky to see 108-110. Many campgrounds we have been do drop to 95-104v during peak time.
I'm betting in the near future campsites will either ban electric charging, or put an extra fee for those who are using their sites for charging. I'm not certain if every campsite can supply enough power to run both the 50 and 30 AMP outlets simultaneously. Many campsites are known for having flakey electrical systems, which is why it's recommended that you get a surge protector/power filter for when you plugin.
I bought one for my RV when I had it and travelled across the continent over 6 months and only found one campground in Northern Ontario where the electricity was so bad (undervoltage, 105V) that it cut out. Could have just been lucky. I was still glad to have it, peace of mind.
Some of the larger RV will be using almost as much power as you, so I don’t see the issue currently. Long term, perhaps power consumption rates may need to be looked at, or just change the metering structure to better calculate usage, and have separate site charges vs power charges. If they want to complain about EV’s charging there, it may come back to hurt them in the pocket book.
Yes they should charge a fee so they can increase the infrastructure. They would also be able to limit how many evs were charging. Second your box won't work because it likely uses 2 hots instead of a neutral and a hot. Your 30 Amp uses neutral and a hot but your device is expecting two hots.
On a road trip last week I spent 3 nights in campgrounds for charging as a paying cabin guest. One campground just let me plug in for free, another charged me $20 on top of my regular reservation (worked out to $0.35/kWh) and another just flat out refused to let me plug in at any price.
No, you wouldn't as the camper could be plugged into the truck. That way all the juice goes into charging, and it provides simple math as well as provides the protection for the campground's electric grid. Yes, the camper will be a draw, but it should be safer. Other electric vehicles would have the problem you are stating. That truck will not.
Ya. I would plug the truck into the 50 amp campsite outlet and then run the camper off the 30 amp outlet in the bed of the truck. It will take longer to charge the truck, but it's an option.
@@ronaldking1054 Actually a terrible idea and a waste of electricity. You'd be converting voltage from the power pedestal into the EV battery, then inverting it back out the trucks outlets. There is a noticeable loss each time you convert/invert electricity.
@@CallsignVega Yes, there would be a loss, but there would be no way to calculate how much amperage you would draw, and as such, any other option leaves electricity on the table, which should be more significant than the loss of the conversion from dc to ac.
Tommy - no need to flip the cover down when charging Level 2, like you did at 3:10 in the video. I know the Ford Pro (80 amp) connector includes the lower two, but that is to enable bi-directional energy flow. When using the portable charger, thats not an issue, so save yourself an extra step and the risk of accidentally breaking the cover when you close the charge door!
I do wish all EV manufacturers would supply a EVSE like the Lightning. Having a combo Level 1/2 evse will cover any type of AC charging. NEMA 14-50 outlets are very common at RV parks.
@@jgreenle1 In fact Mercedes and others supply you with NONE. Mercedes will sell you a level one "emergency" one... For your home they recommend you purchase a Chargepoint home flex.... My guess is "supply" issues are to blame. Ford has done spectacularly well in supplying their EVSE with a dual one. Even Tesla is now selling rather than providing their home chargers.
We have been living traveling full time for over 5 years in our Class A. A couple of things. 1.the 50 amp circuit is capable of 12,000 watts where the 30 amp is only 3600 watts. The math is 50 amps x 120 volts x 2 legs equals 12,000 vs 30 amps x 120 volts equals 3600. If you want to add in the 80% reduce accordingly. 2. Without knowing the safety features the charger includes I would highly recommend a good quality EMS system with built in surge protection. Low voltage and power surges can reek terrible damage to the sensitive electronics in RV’s and I can only imagine what it would do to the charging system on the truck!
I own a class A RV and even in the summer heat it doesn't pull anything like the EV does continously. Unfortunately, campsite electricity is notoriously poor, especially if the campsite is full. Low voltage/current can cause all sorts of problems with your camper.
Yes about 8 years ago I had a small 20 foot unit I would plug into 110 outlet I couldn't use the a/c no big deal but the frigid kept switching to and from propane. I should have manually left it on propane because all the switching back and forth it fried the computer in my RV. Definitely need a volt meter when plugging in any thing but a fan or light bulb. All campground electrical isn't the same.
Just a quick reference, we are full time RVing in our travel trailer with our Tesla Model Y as our daily vehicle. During the hot summer month in southern Utah we use an average of 35 kWh (the tower we're plugged into has a digital meter on it) in a 24 hour period which pretty much includes the air conditioner running non stop through out the day (to combat 100+ degree temperatures) plus our other appliances, this does NOT include charging our Y, this is just the electricity used by our RV. Our Model Y has a 75 kWh battery. We've If your arriving at a campsite with a low SOC and want to get up to 80-100% then you will most likely be using more electricity than your neighbor in their travel trailer, we charged from 30%-90% and that was 41.4 kWh provided from the tower. Most campgrounds will include electricity as part of the cost, but some others will charge you extra on top of the site fee (these are usually the longer lease units like month to month sites). As both a RVer and an EV driver I understand issues coming from both sides. We still charge at our campsites though as sometimes they are included, but if not, the $/kWh is still typically cheaper than a SuperCharger.
Good luck finding an available campsite if you are traveling over a weekend. Also, most campgrounds are only open from April thru October. Also, If you are using you EV truck to tow a camper you would have to decide which one you are going to power from the campsite power pedestal since there is only one 50amp outlet. You may be able to get away with only renting a site for $35 per night if it's a state or federal campground...that cost is more like $80 per night at a private campground. Pretty sure I'm keeping my gasoline powered 5.7L Hemi.
Most people are seriously uneducated on how much power EV's use and how much power actually costs. While the f150 lightning uses a substantial amount compared to most electric vehicles it is very cheap to charge on level 2. However for example, my wife worked at a state park campground in Ohio. They regularly have power outages in summer during normal operations in hot weather and they ask people to run fridges on propane and turn up thermostats. Their electric system is not upgraded to the requirements of modern RV's. Just because a park has say 30 50 amp sites doesn't mean every site can draw 40 amps continuously. Air conditioners cycle on and off as most loads do. An ev is a constant load. Our grid is not adequately prepared for all EVs yet as well as most homes, campgrounds and such.
TLDR: There are two kinds of adapters and you bought the wrong one. Regarding your adapter that didn’t work: The 3 prong outlet is called a TT-30 and it has one hot wire (120vac), one neutral wire (at ground voltage, but designed to carry current), and one ground wire. The four prong outlet (nema 14-50) has two hot wires (each 120vac from ground and 240vac from each other), a neutral, and a ground. When converting from 3 to 4 wires, one prong on the 14-50 will be left unconnected. The converter may connect neutral to neutral, leaving one of the hots unconnected. This is probably the most common type of converter and will not work for the type of charger you have. A converter intended for use with an EV will not connect the neutral wire on the 14-50 side to anything and will instead connect the neutral from the TT-30 as one of the two hot wires on the 14-50 side. This leaves you with a nema 14-50 outlet that only has 120vac between the two hots, a functional ground, and no neutral. It’s also only capable of handling 30amps, even though it’s a 50amp outlet. This will work for many car chargers, although if they’re picky, they might reject the 120vac when 240vac was expected. They might also reject ground appearing to be at the same voltage as one of the hots. If this does work for you, be sure to lower your charge current to 30amps or less. And as others have pointed out, you should not try to draw more than 80% of the rated current for more than a few minutes, so in this case you would need to adjust the charge current to 24 amps. This means you’d be getting just under 3kw. Edit: Another comment pointed out that the adapter in the video probably connects the 120v hot to each of the hots on the 14-50, resulting in 0v difference. This makes more sense. Still, same end result.
Yeah I think what they want is the "Parkworld 885378 EV Adapter Cord NEMA TT-30P to 14-50R (ONLY for EV or Tesla use, NOT for RV )", I just bought one but haven't tried it out yet.
Tommy, you're not interpreting breakers correctly. A 15 amp breaker will trip at 15 amps. Continuous duty on a circuit is 80% of the breaker's rating. The 32 amp rating of the trucks charger at 240 volts is presuming it will be plugged into a 40 amp breaker. Consequently a L2 charger rated at 40 amps will be presuming being plugged into a 50 amp breaker. You'll find that one rated at 40 amps plugged into a 40 amp rated circuit will in fact trip it. The 80% continuous duty is to eliminate overheating the wiring and causing a fire, while giving you enough room to energize transformers or inductive loads within a circuit.
In campgrounds, you should always use a surge protector. Campground electrical infrastructures are not always as reliable as residential. It’s the campground owners that will not be real happy with you charging your EV. I was in a campground earlier this year where every electrical pedestal had a sign that said there was a $100.00 fine for charging EV’s.
I work as a Park Technician for government campgrounds...and we definitely don't care if people charge their EVs as long as they pay for the site (which we would catch them at worst after a few hours because we constantly check between us and the hosts). IWe are equipped to handle the load. There are master "main" breakers at each "loop" which would trip if everyone was charging EVs at the same time. For example, one campground loop we have can handle up to 72k kw. There are about 20 sites in that loop which means that at any one time every site could draw about 3600 kw if averaged out. The most realistic scenarios I could see we trip the main breaker because of overload (not because of a short) would be if everyone was in that site during the day with their dual air conditioners running at the same time. It's unlikely though as an average A/C is about 1500w. In that particular example loop we have a nema 14-50 connection at each site whereas in other loops "we are equipped" because we only have the 30amp@120v connections along with the master "main" breaker. Not realistic to think every site would be drawing max load, at least not for maybe a decade from now when there are more EVs on the roads. Since most campers don't actually use very much electricity at all, and EVs are proportionally less frequent of a camper, we are not concerned about people charging their EVs If all of the campground sites happened to be full of EVs at the same time charging the maximum draw the main breakers would just trip and we wouldn't care, we would just reset it and if it kept tripping we would wait until people figured it out. We wouldn't care because if you don't expect there to be a power outage at a campground after you happen upon one that you see has nothing but EVs then we don't want you at our campgrounds anyway. We would be happy to direct you to the nearest EV charging station. The campgrounds are for leisure and enjoyment. So far in the last 9 years of working in this industry I've only seen at most three EVs in the same loop charging, while they tent camped.
I tried to look it up, and supposedly and "average" for RV is 20kWh a day. BUT, it can vary very wildly. A large luxury 5th wheel will use as much as house. They have washers and dryers, tvs, multiple air conditioners or heaters, multiple fans,...and they will draw right around 50 amps or so. I was actually reading that some of them have to be selective in what they use or they will pop breakers. So, I wouldn't worry about charging up.
It’s quite rare for a 50 amp RV to use anywhere near 50 amps, or even 40 amps. And the load isn’t continuous like an EVSE does. Note a 50 amp RV outlet is actually 70 amps more than a 30 amp RV outlet.
Yes, but consider that in a campground with, say, 100 spots, only a few of those would be taken up by the monster 5ers. Most campers will be 30A and some will only use the 20A plugs. IF you switch those to all EVs charging, that's where the problems arise. Also, what do you do when you have both an EV truck AND a big 5er at the same site?
@@emanuelneiconi it depends on where you are camping. Most of the campgrounds I frequent they are filled with Class A's and 5th Wheels. As for what do you do when you have a 5th Wheel and an EV, easy, you charge the EV from the 5th Wheel and you meter the power going to the EV from what's left over from the 5er.
@@ericroe Ah yes good point. I had state parks on the brain because of this video. There’s still a lot to be done and thought about when it comes to EVs especially trucks and towing.
You cannot use an off the shelf adapter to go from TT-30 to 14-50... that's a 120 to 240 conversion. What that off the shelf adapter does it connect 120v to each of the hot legs on the 14-50 and the neutral to neutral. The EVSE expects power on the two hot legs... so the 120v and neutral have to be connected to the two "hot" pins on the 14-50...
When using the 120v outlet the Ford Mobile Charger has no way of knowing if it is a 20amp vs. 15 amp circuit and can only pull 80% of the rating. That means 120 vAC charging is limited to 12 amps. Others have commented on why the 30 amp adapter doesn't work.
7:26 The reason you don't have a light on the ford charger is that the truck is expecting 240VAC as you are using a NEMA 14-50 plug on the cable. This by default is 240V type plug. The outlet that you are plugging into is the TT-30 outlet which is a 120VAC 30A RV outlet. Therefore the ford cable won't see the proper voltage and not turn on. I am not sure if ford sells other dongles, but I know that others sell the specific TT30 adapter for the charger. You have to be very careful when using adapters between different plug sets. The reason for example if you use the NEMA 14-50 dongle off the ford charger, but then use an adapter to go to NEMA 14-30 for a dryer for example, the truck will think its plugged into a 50A outlet and over current and potentially melt the wiring of the 30A outlet. That is why its important to use the correct dongle without adapters unless they are the same current and voltage rating. For example the TT-30 RV plug is the same as the L5-30 in that they are both 120VAC 30A outlet standards, just one with straight pins and the other with locking pins used in the marine environment.
There is a special EV adapter for the TT-30. The RV one puts the same phase across the power pins and so the adapter sees 0V. The EV one puts 120V across the pins and it works at least on my Tesla.
I’m an avid camping enthusiast and I don’t think charging at the campgrounds is an issue. It was hydroelectric power at the last place we camped in Arkansas.
A big difference in rv power consumption is they do not pull a large load constantly. The most my rv pulled in the heat of the day was about 22-23 amps. My load center would heat the hot water with propane, or shut off an ac if I tried to pull more than that. My inverter would kick in and draw off battery when the voltage dipped to assist in lowering the draw.
One key piece of info, probably covered below in comments is you should never draw more than 80% of the amperage of a circuit breaker. So in the case of the 120v on the 20 amp you would multiply by 16amps * 120 volts = 1.9 kW (not 2.4kW). In the case of TT30 24 amps off a 30amp breaker * 120 volts = 2.9kW and if you could max out on the 14-50 the max would be 40amps (80% of 50) * 240 v = 9.6 kW. In the case of a dongle like a TT30 you will need to dial the amps down manually to 24amps. Otherwise great video. The argument against EVs in RV parks is the continuous draw of power and the age and condition of the wiring. Some are fine with it some are not.
Also keep in mind that the EVSE unit Ford provided doesn't know that you are at a 20 amp outlet. The specific plug on that dongle is valid for 15 AMP outlets so it probably de-rates down to 12 amps or less. If the dongle had the 20 amp "cross + vertical" blade configuration, it might run at 16 amps. From the video, it sounded like the truck was estimating just over a kilowatt hour per hour delivered after some conversion losses.
@@tomkirchman5808 Correct. The box assumes the typical household draw of 12 amps max. My Bolt actually defaults in the charging area of the infotainment to 8 amps to assume the plug is being shared by other loads, and to reduce stress on older wiring. You can override this to 12 amps, and it'll give you a warning about this very thing.
That 110v outlet will charge at less than 1 KW. Our local Dragstrip let us charge through a 110 and it couldn’t draw more than 1 KW. Our other local track has Nema 14-50 outlets and we can get 8-9 KW for our Teslas there.
Yep about 1 kW sounds correct. I was thinking that 5 days at 2,4kW was impossible (as that would be almost 300kWh charged). So they needed to charge about 115kW, at 1 kW that would be about 5 days.
As a long time RV ‘er as well as an owner of several Teslas, I can tell you that IF RV folks are having any heartburn about parking electric vehicles in camping spots, it is 100% a lack of education in that crowd. Most of them don’t have the ability to purchase an electric vehicle that will appropriately haul their travel trailers, fifth wheels or class A electric guzzling dual air conditioning mansions on wheels. The campsite rental fee that is paid absolutely covers the cost of any electricity and probably uses less than some of those gigantic 50 amp service required monstrosities that people choose to “camp“ in lol
Charging that Lightning from 22% to 100% would have used (131 kWh * 78%) / 90% efficiency = 113.5 kWh. At the 23 cents/kWh it costs in Alaska, that's $26 worth of juice. A 15,000 BTU A/C unit uses 1.5 kWh of electricity per hour. Running two of them non-stop for 24 hours will use 72 kWh.
Regarding that 50amp camp circuit: you said that you cannot take down the park, but that is not true. I did it. The park was full, I plugged in max and everything blew at the main transformer. I had to teach the Ranger how to reset the main box. It was a double 300amp. main breaker. Do the math: It was servicing about 30 sites at max 50 amp each. That is 1500amp (5x) the available. Even your home breaker panel is not designed to run everything at maximum usage. (Check that out at your own home). Parks will need to run infrastructure for EV sites separately in order to supply enough power and avoid this embarrassing situation. Please keep up the great content guys.
I live in an RV park on a military base @$420 per month in my 37' trailer which includes power and water. I got a new tesla M3P that I charge here for free. Loving it.
Notice that the 30 amp (center breaker) is physically a single breaker as compared to the adjacent 20 amp circuit breaker (farthest right) that support the conventional looking wall style plug. It’s quite common for many mid size RVs to only be wired for 120 volts but may need a bit more amperage than a typical 15-20 amp wall plug can provide. So the 30 amp 120 volt circuit is provided for those RV applications. Whereas the 50 amp circuit breaker application is typically needed for larger RVs as positioned (farthest left) in this video. If you look closely it is actually two breakers fitted side by side. This tandem breaker configuration supports the NEMA 50 plug which ultimately is 240 volts as it connects upstream to two separate 120 volt legs of a 240 volt single phase electric panel bus bar. ie 120 volt leg + 120 volt leg = 240 volts.
The one thing about campgrounds is they don't necessarily have the best power and you should have a RV surge protector for either 30 or 50 amp depending on what you are using.
In reference to your conjecture regarding getting a bigger charger to connect to the NEMA 14-50 outlet you cannot get more than 40 amps from the 50 amp outlet because the EV charger is a continuous draw; meaning it requires 125% of the charging amps on the connected circuit, b/c 125% of 40 is 50 amps. Your plug in charger is rated at 32 amps to allow for a buffer so you don’t keep popping the breaker. The other issue is that in a campground typically multiple campsites may share a master circuit rated for maybe 150 amps so if everyone is charging an EV next to each other then it likely will degrade your charging rate and make the circuit prone to tripping.
There is also the fact that the EV would be taking a spot that could be used for an RV. it's already difficult as it is to find available sites nowadays.
I just completed a 6,000 mile US road trip in my 2021 Model 3 SR+ Over 13 days of driving (July 10 through July 31, 2022, with time in Kentucky) from Sacramento CA to Louisville KY and back (with numerous side trips), I drove nearly half what I drive in a year. Shortest distance ~300 miles. Longest drive 650+ miles. Average ~450 miles. The final analysis: Wow. This is definitely a road warrior vehicle, despite so-called “conventional wisdom.” I am still plugging in metrics and numbers, but I estimate about 60 charging stops. In all those stops, I only had ONE 5 minute wait, at Glenwood Springs, CO. One. 5 minutes. I’ve waited longer in a grocery store line. I drove through and charged in major cities (LA, Amarillo, OK City, Little Rock, Memphis, Nashville, St. Louis, Kansas City, Denver, Salt Lake City) and countless small towns and wide spots in the road. Typically, I was either the only one there or one of two Teslas. My typical stop was 20-25 minutes. Enough time to have a short walk about, use the bathroom, grab a bottle of water, and then get back on the road (the breaks, and auto pilot, assured I’d be rested and relaxed after hours of travel). Weekdays, weekends, rush hour, nighttime, huge supercharger (50+) or small (4), interstate or blue highway… I drove and charged through them all. No cherry picking. ~60 superchargers. 6,000 miles. 13 days of driving. In July 2022. One wait. 5 minutes. I can’t speak for others. But a complete success in my book.
@@jimbob1096 Every day, new charging stations are being constructed and put online for use. It’s not a static number. My own recently completed trip across the US debunks this weak, ineffective attempt at scaring people from considering an EV. Plus, the vast majority of EV owners, myself included, do the vast majority of charging at home, where there is zero waiting.
Many camp sites in Florida charge for electricity. So if you charge your truck, you pay for it. Other campsites include the electric in the site cost - there I can see the argument. But not when pay electric separate. Further, you charge the truck only once during a camping trip. While when you run 3 A/C units on a camper they are running constant - for days. Should the tent camper complain about the guy running A/C unit? You can solve the discussion by charging for electric, pretty easy.
Hi Tommy, let me help you out... With electricity, current is measured in amps. So Voltage multiplied by Amps equals Wattage, which is the Power (the rate of doing work, measured in watts). Voltage is applied, current is drawn in amps, and the multiplied sum is the power in wattage. The reason other campers don't like the idea of EV's charging at campgrounds could also be that it will be harder to find available spots for camping since EV's will be competing for the same spaces that provide electrical hookups. Some camping sites fill quickly and can be difficult to find an available spot.
So, I’m not really sure what the question is surrounding paying for charging or using the electrical hookup at a campsite. If your staying at a site with a hookup, you are paying to use the electricity provided, doesn’t matter if you have your huge rv with a fridge, AC, TV and who knows what else running, or charging the huge battery in your truck. They built these sites so that literally every spot can have an RV in it plugged in drawing up to 50 amps. These campgrounds have PLENTY of times where all the sites are full and all of them are plugged in at the same time, it doesn’t matter, it’s literally how the campground is designed. Been that way long before EV’s. Nothings going to happen if you parked a truck at every spot and charged because nothing already happens when RV’s do the exact same thing. So no, you shouldn’t pay more, you should pay what an RV pays for the same access. Which is already part of the fee.
EVs represent a more constant long term load if charging from empty or near empty. RV systems cycle on and off as needed. There is indeed a difference. Right now, one EV in a campground isn't going to make a big difference in the grand scheme of things, but several years from now, the narrative might change. Most campgrounds will just raise their nightly rates across the board to cover any extra costs. - Just like they've done since the pandemic with the high demand for sites thanks to all the new RV owners.
Any load in the truck ? I bet it's empty ! A friend has one and when 2 adults 2 kids and less than 2 tonn’s caravan is on he needs charge every 80/130 miles or 2/3 hours but has 400 miles apparently empty sorry but it's a pickup for doing heavy duty things !!!!!! Your using a big TOY ! My Landover 2.7 can do nearly 600 miles per tank and only takes 10 mins to fill !!!!!!! 14 hours every day lol that will get old by the 3rd charge !!
@@danpaquette4346 Very good explanation. However, lefties don’t care about facts or how things ACTUALLY work - they only care about LOOKING right (as opposed to actually BEING right). Maybe this person is an exception, but most lefties won’t care about the truth of the matter.😊
The other item here past using the wrong plug is that if you have a 30 or 50 amp breaker that does not mean you can use the full amount of said breaker. It will kick. You have to use below the size amount. Also, a camper is not using full amount of the power supplied by the breaker. Most campers use DC voltage supplied products so you can use batteries where no power exists, so they are inverting the power already.
Your Ford with a camper shell on it is no different from a typical RV running off a 50 amp outlet. If you try to draw more than 55-60 amps, the breaker will trip, so you aren’t drawing any more power at 32 amps than a diesel pusher RV with AC, fridge, 2 air conditioners or heaters with electric resistance strips in the winter. Probably less. It’s none of the other campers business what you are doing at your campsite, nor yours at theirs.
An RV "50 amp" plug actually provides 100 amps. Notice that it's actually 2-50A breakers. So in reality if the charger maxes out at 32A you're really using a lot less than what it's capable of and what someone with a multi-AC unit would draw.
@@andrewsteenbuck8537 I am not an electrician, but I think that is dangerous misinformation. The two 50 amp breakers are on separate legs of the 220 circuit so no, the limit is 50 amps. In fact for continuous applications such as car charging, you must not exceed 80% of the 50 amps, so 40 amps is the limit if you don't want to risk damaging their equipment.
@@andrewsteenbuck8537 Incorrect. If you overload one leg of that circuit, it will trip both. That's why they're ganged together. You're are limited to the 50, and even that is not continuous duty. That rating on the breaker is its TRIP rating, not maximum continuous duty. It's dangerous to assume you have 100 amps as you have no ability to balance your load on that breaker effectively enough.
We camp a lot at state park campgrounds, especially in Oregon. I'm not against EV and we've had one - but my issue is down the road I feel this will cause two issues. 1: site rates will increase due to extra energy consumption. 2: folks will start booking sites just to charge due to their potentially lower cost and may not use the site for their designed use. (We see that already so much in Oregon.. Coastal campgrounds full but physically only 70% using their site because reservations need be made 6 months in advance and of course weather or life events change)
WOW! I never thought of that. The biggest concern people have is the lack of charging stations in remote areas... yet, there are DEFINITELY RV camp sites in remote areas with 220v service.👍
No, the biggest concern we have this being forced on us by the government at a speed that does not take into account the devastating effect it will have on workingfamilies. Destruction of the oil and gas industry will destroy the country. Period. "Climate change" is an artificial crisis.....that's been around for 100yrs. It's a lie folks.....
The only campground in Mojave, CA had only 30 amp outlets. It take me 10 minutes or less to put gas in my Jeep. My 150 gallon tank in the motor home takes longer from car pumps but truck pumps also fill the motor home up in around 10 minutes. There are also a lot of campgrounds that don't have power at the camp site.
Most RV's will only draw about 8-15 amps at the 240 volt 50 amp circuit, unless they are running a pair of air conditioners. Then it can draw up to about 25 amps. Still a A/C unit will only draw about 1 KW per unit per hour, so not nearly the 7 KW that your charger is using. Some campgrounds have a separate charge for electricity when camping less than a week, and allow 5 KW per day free and charge about $0.20 per KW for excess power. At that rate, your use might be 100 KW at 0.20 per KW or $20 in extra electricity. I typically would only use 2-3 KW overnight unless I ran my A/C unit. Then 7 KW overnight, because the compressor does not run the while night, but about 30 minutes each hour until about midnight. So offering to pay a little extra for the extra electricity is fair.
So 14 hours on 240v level charging similar to what most homes can provide to go from 25% to 100%. I can’t remember the range you guys were getting with 100% - 200 miles? So drive 3-4 hours and charge for 14? In 20min you gained 2mi of range. Exciting stuff.
That's why high speed chargers are considered essential for conventional road trips. These level 2 type chargers are called destination chargers for a reason. This video was made because they took an unconventional adventure to show that it could be done, not that it's your standard trip.
I use campgrounds more because they have charging for my PHEV, also they have motel units and cabins for comfort. . The battery is much smaller, but it means I can have free local driving. Also.... When rural camping, it gives me power from the car for my portable fridge, fans, heaters, and even electric blanket in the tent! EV and campgrounds are best friends!
Food for thought. I live in Phoenix area. Just got solar recently with battery backup. I can see house power usage (roughly 1200sf). House AC set at 78 (lower if i do more physical work), the most used in a day is 55kwh and it is July with 100+ degree days and 90 degree mornings. You are trying to charge 80% which is roughly 105kw. Another consideration is only a few high users versus many high users which can tax the overall system.
I would be more concerned of the 3 hours driving (maybe) and the 14 hours of setting while it charges so I can drive another 3 hours. And even that depends on if the campground has 240 volts available. Many or possibly most campground only have 30 amp, 110 volts available, especially in the northwest where the temp doesn't stay in the 90's - 100's like it does in the south. That's going to make for a long, long, long, trip to Alaska.
wait, i assumed that if the campsite has 30 amp that I am guarantied to get 240v? I'm planning a Winnipeg to Vancouver road trip with a 60 kWh Bolt. And out of the 5 sites I contacted so far I got 1 stating that "their grid is not designed for ev charging"
@@Liefpj They sometimes have 120v 30amp plugs. Using plug step downs will not help you though. Buy a different EVSE that has the correct adapters or can manually change the amps so you don’t blow the breakers.
When you used the adapter plug it’s energizing both L1 and L2 with the same 120v leg while the ford power brick is trying to use it at 240v. The voltage from L1 to L1 is going to be 0 (and why it doesn’t turn on).
It is an interesting idea. Maybe this will get people to like driving again. go to a couple campgrounds. Stay at a spot and enjoy the camps amenities while you wait for the charge and then move on. Never even unhook your truck. this could make trips where the parents are letting the kids get some fun at the pool and other stuff while getting some food and taking a nap before having to drive to the next stop. Driving every 100 miles and stopping would hurt but at least kids would see a lot of things and probably have a more enjoyable trip.
Some rough math for how fast it is charging, assuming the full 5 days to full charge on Monday because I don't know what time on Wednesday you started. (130kWh - (22% * 130kWh)) / (24h * 5) = 845Wh of charging power, lets round to maybe 900Wh peek charging from 120V@20A outlet. (130kWh - (22% * 130kWh)) / (14h) = 7242Wh of charging power, lets round to maybe 7300Wh peek charging form a 240V@32A outlet. Quite the difference in charging power! I love my Lightning, but can't really charge it at home because I need to get an additional service added and the projected wait time for that project is about 18-20 months. So I am stuck paying for DC fast charging at the local Kroger store.
In regards to the truck charging dilemma. I think as evs become more popular there will be push back at older campgrounds. Places that don't have individual meters on each site might push back or charge higher rates to charge since they can't monitor. Other campgrounds that have the additional meters could treat you like a long term renter and bill you for your electric usage upon checkout.
They aren't going to be more popular. People are realize you are exporting toxic ass pollution to Africa, and there isn't enough raw materials to replace everyone's car with an EV. So good job outsourcing pollution. Making these batteries is toxic and pollutes way more than a gas car.
I would think that it would be a monumental cost for a campground to put new service's in ? and I don't think there will be a a lot people that are going to pull a camper with a EV ?
Having a class A motor home that in the summertime needs the 50 amp connection to run the two A/Cs, I can tell you that except for that I use really little current as all my appliances, including the fridge run on propane. And I have an onboard 6 kw generator if the power goes out. If you are going to use campsites for charging I suggest that you get an outlet checker to make sure you won't damage your charger.
I foresee a compromise being: elec monitors at campsites to charge elec usage. The downside then becomes trailers/RVs might run their generators instead of paying (maybe…). Either way I do agree an EV shouldn’t just come in to charge only; they need to pay for the site (in case anyone is suggesting that). In BC you have to reserve sites 2-3mosnin advance anyway!
The plug for the dryer is a Neema 1350, if I am not mistaken, the prong below the ground on a 4-wire dryer cord has a 90° bend. The plug adapter you have is for a range and is rated at 50 amps. I used to deliver appliances for Lowe’s and had to not install dryers for people that had the range outlet as the breaker wouldn’t trip if there was a short in the dryer (dryer circuit 30 amps/ range 50 amps) possibly causing a fire.
A typical dryer connection would be a 14-30 (for 30 amp), which is similar to but physical incompatible with a 14-50 (for 50 A), despite what is said in the video. There is no 14-30 connection shown, or found on an RV or in a campground.
well the campground i visited last year had like a 2€/day price for an electric hookup so a bunch of large battery EVs coming over and charging while staying for a single night would definetly mean they would have to raise the price. but there are RV parking lots that actually charge by kWh and i wouldn't really have a problem charging on that. also, yeah, if i had something like a 3 phase (i am in Europe) charging on my EV, i would definetly consider buying a portable EVSE that has adjustable power and comes with many adapters.
There are many people confused by electrical formulas. Best to get the words right. Voltage times current is watts, not amps. Probably an unconscious error while on camera but worth editing to make your videos correct. And note, watts, not kilowatts. It takes 1000 watts to make a kilowatt. So let’s not say volts times amps equals kilowatts… 240 x 10 amp = 2400 watts, or 2.4 kw. Encourage your viewers to understand the basics correctly. And when gesturing at a bunch of sockets, don’t call them plugs. :)
People think EVs “take” too much power and that it is some kind of thievery to charge from a “normal” outlet, even a 50-amp connection meant to power an entire mobile “house”. They think charging an EV goes above and beyond the energy covered by the usual campground fees. Exactly like the apartment dwellers who keep unplugging and even cutting EV charging cables.
One RV A/C unit needs about 10 kwh per day, Even when you run 3 of those - you end up with 30kwh per day. That's what campgrounds calculate into the site cost. When you charge your truck you pull 100kwh per day. + the 30kwh for you trailer. So the campground either need to up the charge for the site or charge for electric cost separate (which is already happening) which would be probably the fair model. Get billed for what you use instead of a blanket site cost.
@@sebastiant5695 If what you were saying were true, then they wouldn't have a 50-amp breaker. The startup costs for the circuit are not that high for camping. They have already priced in the amount of power they think someone will draw, and that truck would be in it just as the presenter stated. You, who are not in the contract, are the only one complaining about the contract that the campground provided to someone else. What is worse is that you did not complain that the campground who gave you the same contract was not overproviding services and as such, the campground would be overcharging you.
Most RVs don’t use anywhere near the full rated amperage most of the time. The voltage at most campgrounds will sag quite a bit if lots of people run their air conditioners, which are only about 1-2kw each. If you plug in your EV and draw 6 to 8 kw, that’s like addling 4-8 more AC units. The park voltage will sag more, and you might even cause a sub panel breaker to pop.
The challenge is to be able to plug in your electric vehicle and at the same time keep your camper fully charged. We have thought about buying a Rivion, but how can we do both when on a trip? Plus, apparently electric trucks only get about 50% in distance when towing a load such as a camper. At this point I don't think technology has reached a point where it makes practical sense to tow something such an Airstream behind you for an extended trip.
In a remote area can you get a charge from a generator? And what is the smallest wattage generator like a Honda 2000 watt or would it have to be bigger ? I like the campground charging idea, something I haven't thought about, I don't see why it would be a problem if you're camping anyway.
you can, but that 2000w honda is only good for about the same as a regular 120v outlet like they showed at the beginning of the video. So, a very long time charging. You could go to a bigger generator, but then you're looking at needing the fuel to keep it fed.
search other youtube videos for generator level1/2 charging... most don't provide enough power, especially 240v, but bigger issue is pure sine-wave output or not... some EV charger bricks flake out or fail with false sine wave generators. They would be loud/smelly, but of course that applies to RV generators too.
interestingly, one campground I visited had TWO 30amp 120v outlet at each pedestal, along with the normal 20amp outlet, and NO 50amp. I was, though, able to use my DUAL 30amp 120v to 50amp 240v 'Y' adapter to create 240v power and charge the truck during the overnight stay - by the way, I also provided power to the camper FROM the truck's ProPower 30amp outlet... nice. This type of campground outlet option is NOT common, but it certainly made for faster charging with the adapter.
The only ethical dilemma going forward is the limited number of RV campsites with full hookups. If EV drivers start renting campsites to charge their vehicle, RV's will have an even more difficult time in finding overnight locations (which has become a crisis during the pandemic and RV boom). If you rent a campsite with full hookups, the camp host is expecting your vehicle to use electricity. The only time that there is an extra charge for electricity is for long-term rentals; RV's that stay in the same campsite for a month or more.
There is no ethical dilemma. If you are going to a camp site to charge your EV, then you're most likely going to be spending overnight there anyways (ie. camping). For me I've camped out of my Tesla many times with each time reserving an RV site with full hookups. In my case, my "RV" is literally my EV. Whether my vehicle is a full RV, trailer RV attached to a truck, or EV doesn't matter.
@@ElectricGlider2016 you are responding as an EV pilot. I can tell you as both an EV owner and an RV owner, RV travelers are upset when they see EV's occupying campsites that were meant for large RV's. Campsite rentals are at a premium in some areas (especially on weekends). This issue is similar to RV's and truck stops. In the RV community, the rule is to not take a spot that could be occupied by a truck. The same will apply to campgrounds. In a busy campground, EV's should not occupy the space set aside for a large RV (coach/trailer). Hopefully, campgrounds will see the business opportunity that EV's are and engineer smaller campsites with electricity into their developments.
@@bikergeekgd I already know of an RV park that has been adding a couple destination chargers to standard drive in camping spots and charging a premium for them, so the market will handle it in due time. When it's a problem, the business will come up with a remedy. Someone may not be happy about it, but business will go on.
@@bikergeekgd Sorry but you represent the minority who feel this way. Literally everybody who I've talked to at camp sites both users, park rangers, and camp ground heads have all welcomed me when I came in and camped in my Tesla overnight. Maybe the camp grounds I've been to all over Texas are just a lot nicer and accommodating than the community you're in, but I will say that your username does fit you if you do have this type of selfish "RVs only" attitude and also try to speak for the entire RV community.
@@ElectricGlider2016 your responses are starting to get personal and obnoxious. All that I am saying is that before you occupy a campsite with full hookups that is meant for a 20-40' RV, use some discretion and consider RV travelers. I own a Tesla and an RV and would never put my Tesla in a spot that is meant for an RV unless it was an emergency. Car/tent campers aren't meant to occupy RV campsites. If the campground is empty, book whatever site you want. But I can tell you that there aren't a lot of decent, empty RV campsites east of Texas. The RV community follows an etiquette. Class B RV van owners don't book pull-through sites that are meant for big rigs. Tent campers stay out of RV sites. And so on. If a mass of EV car owners start booking RV campsites, the lack of RV overnight accommodations will become worse. than it already is. As I mentioned previously, I hope that campgrounds see a business opportunity for EV cars/trucks and setup EV-specific campsites with electricity.
Never… What is this BS about charging for free? I had a friend come by a few weeks ago and he immediately asked where he could plug in? WTH is this all about…. It’s not free, it’s never free?
At 3:25 you’re calculating power not current. Volts multiplied by the current (amperage) equals power (wattage). Not that important unless you’re putting together an electrical system in which case it’s crucial.
@@WayneBruce26 haha glad I’m not the only one that raised an eyebrow. It’s a great video and didn’t want to nit pick but figure it’s worth pointing out incase an amateur like myself doesn’t get confused and burn their house down.
I watched another channel who was pulling a travel trailer with an electric vehicle. They used the 50 amp circuit to charge the EV and the 30 amp circuit for the camper. Also consider that the EV charging is a continuous use of the power source whereas if you were only using the power source for your camper, your a/c is cycling on and off, your refrigerator is cycling on and off, lights are a low voltage draw, appliance use is intermittent, etc., etc. So yes, those other campers know that EV is using more than their fair share of power and the campground will have no choice but to raise the rates for all, or preferably, charge an additional fee for electric vehicles.
RV ac will need about 3kw to start and 1.5kw to run. And they don't run continuously. Larger RVs could have 2 or 3 ac units. The vehicle will 8kw continuously. Roughly $1/hr for power.
@@davidmcgee2126 Intermittent vs continuous. At the present time, it is not an issue for campsites as most folks realize pulling a camper with an EV is fool's folly.
Level 2 will still take overnight or 8 hours to charge. It may be an option if you are camping out there too. Level 1 just won't work. It will take a week to charge your battery
i love camping and my opinion is, that if you reserve a spot with electricity, then you can use it however you want, if you have a tent that you sleep in and use it to charge your electric vehicle, or it's a bed camper or bed mounted tint, it does not matter, and nobody should be upset about it
I agree, and I foresee campgrounds adding master breakers in order to disable non-used campsite outlet boxes so people can't just pull in and charge their EV without paying for the space and power usage.
Pay for the campsite, and stay a while, maybe EV's might be a good thing, it will slow people down, maybe get them out in the wilderness more and see things they would never see otherwise.
I was just at a campsite in Northern California and they had posted every where saying no EV Vehicle charging. Didn’t ask any questions about it.
Your comment is ambiguous.
Everyone agrees that you should get whatever you paid for. However, power usage is variable, and if you're using more power than everyone else because you have to charge your EV on top of your normal camping power needs, you should pay an additional charge and not expect the extra cost of charging to be absorbed by the campsite owner, or be spread out to people who are using less power.
It'll end up being like baggage fees on an airline, which entitled people hate but is something that works fairly. Those who don't have anything to bring will get a discounted rate. But for those who brought 10 bags and the kitchen sink, they should pay for it out of their own pockets.
@@AkioWasRight Consistently running a AC on a camper will use more juice than charging a car.
@@fpartidafpartida So how does that follow what I said? What if I run my air conditioning AND charge my EV, am I only expected to pay for the AC's power usage but the EV is free of charge?
Follow what I said. You should pay for what you use.
The charger is expecting 240 V because it has a Nema 14-50 adapter connected to it. When you then use a pigtail to connect to your TT-30 to the Nema 14-50 adapter, the charger is only seeing 120 V instead of the expected 240 V. This is why you’re not getting the blue light and charging. If charging had started, the charging box has no way to know that it should limit itself to 30 A, so it would most likely trip the breaker anyway.
Agreed. The TT-30 receptacle is only 120V, not 240V. One big clue to this is the single breaker. Notice how the 240V receptacle has a dual ganged breaker. Single breakers are 120V. The charger doesn’t understand what’s going on with the 120V input. But even if it could work, there’s not much point because at best it is Level 1 charging speed halved.
100%. Anytime you use an adapter that allows a high power device to use a lower power outlet, there is a fire/tripped breaker/melted wire risk (breakers are constantly flipped in campsites so they can get worn out). The safest bet is to only use adapters to go down. For example, sometimes campsites only have 50a breakers, but my camper is 30a. I can safely use an adapter since I will not be overloading the circuit.
Many EVSEs will be happy with an outlet that should be 240vac but is actually 120vac. The Tesla mobile connector is okay with this, for example. Most likely they had the wrong kind of dogbone which left one of the hots open, but I suppose the Ford EVSE might be extra picky.
The dongle puts the same phase of 110 on each leg of the 220, so zero net volts. Some RV appliances can handle this
Normal 220 in the US is two 110 volt lines running out of phase, so one goes up when the other goes down in voltage. Weirdly that is less safe to humans than 220 on one leg like the UK.
It probably would work if the second hot is connected to neutral, but then it would likely limit itself to 12A.
Yup. Had the same problem. You can’t charge an EV on a TT30 if you’re using a 14-50 adapter. They do make a TT30 adapter that is designed for EVs. It switches one of the wires around to make it work. Like others have said, the charger is looking for 240, but tt30 is 120v.
I tried the same exact thing when I first got my Tesla, the charger is looking for two legs and the TT30 only is providing a single.
The TT-30 to 14-50 adapter likely connects to 120V to both Hot legs of 14-50 and the Neutral and grounds to their respective pins. This allows the RV to get power. But EV EVSE chargers are looking across both Hot legs, which are both connected/shorted. So you need a special EV only (not for RV) adapter that will put the 120V Hot on one leg and the TT-30 neutral on the other 14-50 hot leg. This adapter will work for an EV charger, but could damage an RV. I'm looking to charge my Tesla on a TT-30 RV outlet using the 6-50 Tesla connector. Hopefully the mobile connector will work on 120V/30A from a TT-30 to 6-50 welder adapter. I wiill have to manually set charge current to 24A or less.
@@jb3246 I have the tt-30 as well as the 120v 30 amp twist lock adapters from EVSE. Being that we’re rvers we have that connection at our house as well as many of our family members homes. They both work great and push 120v at 24amps to my model 3. I call it level 1.5 charging. Will fully charge a Tesla 80kwh battery from 0-100 in less than 28 hours.
For tt30 to 14-50 to work you need an adapter that puts the hot from tt30 to hot1 on 14-50 and common from tt30 to hot2 on 14-50. The adapter from big box stores put the tt30 hot to both 14-50 hots creating 0V differential. A EV only adapter (or home made) are the only ones that will work because of how the standard adapters for RVs work.
This is the right answer. I've been charging my EV at campgrounds for a while, and you need an EV-specific TT-30 to 14-50 adapter. The regular RV adapters won't work.
Also, wouldn't the car slow down at 80%? Or is that only on DC?
@@afdave7 no slowdowns until like 98-99% on those AC amperages
Ok but you will need a special ev charger to select 24amp max ?
@@mathieupetit6001 the Tesla portable charger is capable of doing 24A @ 120V but most EVSEs limit you to 12A (80% of a 15A circuit) or maybe 16A (80% of 20A). The car itself can also limit the power draw, reportedly my Ioniq 5 will only pull 16A @ 120V even with the Tesla charger (using a J1772 adapter) as tested by one of my fellow owners.
I work at a campground, people charging their EVs have become a relatively common occurrence. Campers are not shy about speaking their mind, and I have yet to receive a complaint from campers surrounding people who are charging their cars. The one thing I would make sure before I went to a campground to charge is that their system can actually handle it. Our new campsites which have 50 amp service can handle it no problem. Our old campsites which only have 30 amp service and only like 225 amps divided up over 40 campsites, are not really equipped to deal with that. So just try to make sure that you know in advance that you're good to go. We love all of our campers including the ones that have EVs.
Circuits are not designed to pull full power continuously. You should only draw 80% of the circuit rating when charging for more than a few minutes so you don't overheat the breaker. You'll also find that the receptacles at some campgrounds can be worn out. If you don't have a good solid connection, you'll melt your adapter/plug.
The EVSE is designed with that in mind. With a regular 120V plug it will only charge at 12A (80% of 15A), regardless of whether it's plugged into a 15A or 20A circuit, because it has no way of knowing anything about the circuit. The problem is when you start using adapters on higher amperage circuits. It doesn't look like the EVSE they are using has any way to set the charging current besides knowing which plug is installed. So if they use the 14-50 plug and an adapter to plug it into a 30A dryer circuit, that will overload the circuit because the EVSE thinks it is still allowed to use 32A.
And all EVSEs are designed to draw only 80%. Only issue is when people start to use adapters which is when it's up to the user to manually lower the amperage to 80% of the circuit rating.
if it's a 50amp breaker the actual load on the circuit is probably 32amps although the circuit is rated for 40. They should be fine. If the plug is damaged that's on the campground.
The sad part is although the electric pedestals have 50-amp breakers, the average RV site has only about 22-amps available with the older parks because many were built in the 20-30 amp 120-volt era and the transformers were never updated. This was true with the parks we managed in south central Florida. I am a fan of electric cars and we ended up leaving the last job before we could get our F-150 ordered as I added a 50/30/20 amp electric pedestal to the manager house site.
The reason your 30-amp dongle did not work is because the 50-amp base adapter you were starting with expected 240 volts with both hotlines, a neutral, and a ground. The 30-amp dongle drops one of the two hot lines so it won't power it on your Ford Adapter. Ford needs to either produce a 30-amp adapter or allow you to reprogram the 20-amp to a 30-amp twist connect adapter. It's basically like the 120-volt 20-amp on steroids with 10 more added amps. I am glad you did that test as I do not think Ford figured that part out either. -David Knapp
Yeah I went camping with my Tesla Model S and had to restrict my charger to 20A to avoid blowing the 50A breaker.
@@danieljohnkirby9412 I am glad that all campgrounds aren't like that, but the number of underperforming electric pedestals surprises me. I remember a campground in Kansas that had 40-amp breakers instead of 50, the owner was honest and said the power company refused to bring in a larger transformer unless he paid $50,000 in neighborhood feeder upgrades. Obviously, every location will be different. Keep up the faith & someday we'll be in electric flying cars like the Jetsons. I was just born when that series was created, LOL.
Buy ektric. Fird f150
You are extremely informative. Thanks for your knowledgeable input! Loving out Lightning. How about you?
Flat rate fees for anything are almost never fair on an individual basis, someone gains, someone loses.
The guy with the small RV/trailer is essentially subsidizing the guy with a slightly larger RV in the same size/priced spot.
The family which doesn't use the pool at the campground is subsidizing the family who do.
People like to cherry pick and moan about the things they feel they are subsidizing, while staying quiet about what they receive that is subsidized by others.
Campgrounds may need to rethink flat rate pricing over time if many people rock up with the likes of an F150 Lightning, or a Rivian or any other large battery vehicle.
At 20c per kWh, putting 100kWh into a battery is going to consume about 120kWh and that's about $24. So they only make $10 a night on a $35 spot.
Maybe EV's have to take a class C spot at $50 per night (I don't know if that's a thing but I'd imagine even today the guy with a small trailer should not be payiung as much as those guys becuase he doesn't have 3 AC units and a massive fridge/freezer and big screen TV etc etc).
Or maybe there is a $10 per night EV surcharge?
In any case, camp ground will adapt, they'll have to.
@@larrysmith6797 You're right, but I would argue that saying no is also adapting. Either way they need to make it clear.
@@larrysmith6797 And what do you think it costs in electricity to run those big RV's for 24 hours with 3 A/C units, a large refrigerator and so on? It's not free. The Ev surcharge should be the difference between running one of those and charging a typical EV which is probably about $10. And a 100kWh battery in an EV is a rare thing, to charge something like a Chevy Bolt would take half as much, and in all cases this is assuming you are charging from 0% to 100% which any EV owner will tell you they probably never have.
There are some Campgrounds here in San Diego that charge $100/night.
$35 a night is super cheap for site with 50amp electric and sewer. Tent sites are normal 35. And large rv sites are double
@@guyod1 Did they say it has sewer? If so, I missed it. But that would be very cheap. Not bad for w+e either.
My experience goes back three years but my wife and I spent 2 months camping with an EV and pop-up trailer going cross-country. We always asked if we could charge our EV in the campground and only had one owner indicate he would meter us and charge accordingly. We found another campground nearby that did not have any issues with our charging. When possible we would supercharge relatively near the campground, especially if we were staying only one night. Staying several nights with reasonable day trips and the energy usage likely averages out to a large RV.
If one pulls into the campsite 50 kWh low a $10 bill goes a long way to making the campsite owner whole.
Ten dollars?
I'll bet you tip fifty cents in restaurants.
@@macmckenzie1242 That comment certainly adds to the discussion
A dollar and no more (unless they forget my ice).
Sorry but if the campsite is not charging extra for 50 amp service, then they don’t deserve anything extra because you are using 40 Amps. A large class A running all 3 of his A/C units will use that amount as well. I can see if you were just using the site as a charging stop, but if I am hauling my camper, the end use of the electricity is none of their business. Are they going to police how many A/C units people are using?
@@cherokee180c0 Consider the class A as a small house. A small house will consume about 25 kWh/day. It seems reasonable that a class A would approach that. If I stay only one night, I am essentially using the campsite as a charging stop if I do not charge prior to arrival. For me, that can be as much as 60 kWh in addition to my modest camping needs. For those nights, I do not mind if the campsite expects additional compensation. When I stay several days, my average energy consumption will be in line with what a class A would consume on the pad.
Due to possibly sketchy power distribution, I limit my charging current to 20 or 25-amperes since I have all night to charge.
Something I haven't seen mentioned here yet: A lot of campgrounds have older or inadequate electrical infrastructure, and if there's too much collective current draw across the campground it can cause brownouts. I think this plays some part in the apprehension of the other campers, and campground staff.
Absolutely right. My class A motorhome (in the summertime) does not pull the continuous load an EV does. Electrical service at many campgrounds is marginal at best.
Charging one of these is like running 4 decent size home AC units. That's a lot of juice. The grid can't handle basic stuff in cali. Imagine 4 times that amount
But EV charger only draws 32 Amps, where the 50 Amp RV would draw slot more. It's about the same as a 30 Amp RV, maybe less as the charge rate is reduced above 80%.
@@Papa-bh6zq why would an rv draw more? If you aren't running an AC. It's rarely gonna draw more than 20 amps new tvs and lights use very little power and cooking is generally gas... and even with a small AC they only draw like 8amps at 240..my 8400 btu only draws 12 at 120 so it be 6 at 240... and a 4000btu be like 3.
@@Papa-bh6zq The difference is that when you charge an EV, you are making a CONSTANT draw on the electrical system of the campground. In an RV (or your house, for that matter), not every appliance is running at full capacity at all times. You don’t run all of your lights constantly, your AC cycles on and of, your refrigerator cycles on and off, etc…. A campground full of EV’s charging would represent a WILDLY different demand scenario than a campground full of RV’s operating in typical fashion.
That was not a 120volt 20 amp receptacle in the camp site breaker box, it was a 120 volt 15 amp receptacle.
I said the same thing. It's a NEMA 5-15 outlet.
I believe you but how can you tell it's a 15amp circuit? The video is not clear enough for me to make out the writing on the circuit breaker.
@@PeterJames143 The circuit might be 20 amps, but the receptacle is only 15Amps. A 20 amp receptacle has an additional slot perpendicular on one of the legs so it can accept either 15 or 20 amp plugs. Also, the charge adapter 120V dongle is a 15 Amp plug, so it's very unlikely that it would pull 20 amps. And due to the 80% continuous use rule, it's probably only pulling 12 Amps.
Really need an indicator lamp on all those adapter cables to verify you have power.
A 15 amp outlet can be on a 20 Amp circuit. Most of the time it is not the only outlet on the circuit, buy several.
If you want to get an idea of much a typical 50-amp RV with 2 ACs consumes in electricity, you can use our current situation as an example. We have consumed 565.6 KWH in 24 days, which translates into 23.56 KWH per day. Both AC units run at least 12 hours per day, we have the fridge running on electric, 2 TVs and a laptop are going all day long. I hope this info helps for comparison purposes. Regarding campers not liking EVs using campgrounds for charging, is not for using the electricity, it's for using the few available spaces for non-camping purposes.
The EV would use far more than 24 kWh per day, recharging from 20% or less capacity to 80% or more capacity.
It will help me sleep at night knowing somewhere an RVer is grumbling about an EV "taking up a spot".
All those damn RVs in the truck stops. I hope this video drastically increases the popularity of this activity.
That’s not even camping anymore. TVs laptops a/c
That's glamping, not camping, which is what I would be doing in my EV anyway. Plus, EVs looking for a quick charge will be out of the way sooner than an RV. Blame campsites that don't have an hourly fee structure, not the EV owner.
Class a rv 660 jw.
Excellent video, thank you! I own an EV and routinely charge at campgrounds. A couple points to consider. 1. Most campgrounds have circuit breakers at the campsite as well as in a remote location, commonly referred to as the master breakers for multiple campsites. If you draw too many amps while charging your EV, you can trip a master breaker and shut off a group of campsites. Not good! 2. Some EVs can regulate the current amps for level two charging. My EV (Volvo C40) can limit amps from 6 to 48amps. I always limit the draw to 30 or less when overnight camping.
A quick way to get your ev constantly unplugged while attempting to charge
People being upset about charging at the site is lame. As mentioned, if they are worried about being fair then larger RVs should always be charged more, which happens in a few sites but most state run campsites are flat rate if you are 25ft trailer vs a 13ft teardrop using way different power. Dont see them complaining that the big RVs dont pay their fair share. And more electric trucks means less fumes at the camp site especially for busy popular sites! A couple older diesel trucks in a camp site can really mess the air quality up quick.
I would carry/use a voltmeter to check the outlets at the campsite; the voltage can very wildly in an campground. And it would be wise to include a surge protector for the same reason. Have fun !
Pointless, to measure voltage,if it is not under load.... A load would totally throw off your freshly measured values...
@@muppetpaster The volt meter would at least check if voltage current was in the 3 prong 220 outlet.
I suggest that you take the ferry. As others have mentioned in the comments, most RV hookups are 30 amp 110v, and not a 220v circuit. The 50 amp plug-ins will be pretty scarce in any campground over 15 years old. I think your EV adventure is about five years early. But good luck with it, just the same.
It wasnt the circuit, it was the adapter. The tt30p to 1450r needs to say for eV use only. It's wired differently than a regular tt30
Agreed, I had this issue before as well. The ground pin on the TT-30 is off. The 14-50 ground pin is opposite the neutral. Ie, the opposite of the adapter they purchased. Getting the right adapter flips this pin.
Sorry I forgot that RV parks use a 30 amp 120 volt outlet. But it doesn't really matter cuz they had a 50 to plug into and thier evse should be on at least a 40 amp outlet
@@tbpod1 No, it's not the ground pin. The RV adapter connects the TT-30 hot line to both 14-50 hot lines, providing the EVSE with zero volts instead of 120 volts.
You can dramatically reduce your charging needs by driving a more energy efficient vehicle. The Hyundai IONIQ 6 has a 140 MPGe compared to 78 MPGe for the Lightning Extended Range.
You need to get a specific TT30 to 14-50 adapter for EVs and make sure to limit the max amps to 24amps. One of the hots has to go to a neutral and the standard RV adapter doesn't do this.
This 💯 ^^^ I’m sure the the 30 amp to 50 amp adaptor is for RVs only. Wonder if they ever bought one wired for EVs.
Bingo. The wiring is different in the 30 to 50 RV vs the EV version.
Using that adapter for 125/30A is because you have NEMA 14-50 plugged in and vehicle is recognizing you don’t have 240V. Each adapter from ford and other manufacturers send info to charger of what energy to draw
I'm sure you have covered this but it seems like a good time to remember the charger is in the vehicle. The cords and the device that ford gives you to connect to a power source does nothing to control the power going into the batteries. It's only purpose is to determine the acceptability of the offered power source. i.e. voltage in the correct amplitude and phase angle.
Sounds unnecessarily complicated. Get a damn hybrid.
The L1/L2 EVSE also tells the charger in the vehicle, "I can provide xx amps," and the onboard charger will comply by not drawing more than that.
Energy Meters at each spot. High Energy Chargers in certain spots. High Energy Parking Spots for Day use areas. Make it easy for camp site owners to get on board and offer a new kinda service while making it fair for everyone!
Some RV parks actually do this already. Typically it's for long term rentals though.
Set up a little snack and coffee shop and voila! Makin money! :)
My family and I camp, and I wouldn’t care if an EV is charging or not, as long as:
1. I and the other campers had the power we needed.
2. The EV user is not charged an obscene amount to charge (they only pay for what they use).
3. The campground owner doesn’t get screwed, either.
Where does fair play into it? The campground is a business. They should allow ev charging with a significant upcharge of 30-50 dollars a night to play for the infrastructure improvements required to support them
The issue with the TT-30 to NEMA 14-50 is designed for RV’s, so it takes the hot wire to the two hot wires on the NEMA 14-50. So the voltage difference between the two hots on the 14-50 is zero volts. But since RV’s only use 120 volts it works fine for RV’s.
You need a special EV TT-30 to NEMA 14-50 adapter that will put the 120 volts across the two hots.
my take on charging an EV at a campsite is this. If you are taking up a space with JUST the truck (no intentions of actually using it as a campsite) then yes, they should charge extra (within a reasonable price for it) but if you're actually intending to use the campsite, then the truck will be there anyways, so charging it shouldn't be that much extra if anything at all. also the reason you "dog bone" adapter didn't work is because the TT30 connector only supplies 1 leg of power, as well as neutral and ground, and the NEMA 14-50 plug does 2 legs of 120v as well as neutral and ground. so with a proper TT30 adapter that works with your charger, then that would work. as it only needs the one leg of power instead of the 2.
We set our charger amps on the Model Y for 12 amps and this is for over night at home. When camping we set our amps at 20 for overnight. This always gets us to 92% charge. Here we run the air-conditioning for sleeping. Still charging overnight is no problem to get the 90 + percent we need to get on the road the next morning. I travel often and sometimes just do a campsite instead of a motel room. Just easier to use the campsite showers and bathrooms than to check in to a motel for six hours .
I used to be an RV’r and when we plug in our RV/trailer the power from the campground would also charge any battery bank on the RV/trailer. Not much difference in practice except an EV would draw more power and take more time. If you pay for a spot, then there shouldn’t be any difference in price to you. However, if you take a parking spot away from other campers, then I’d expect some problems. When I take my eNiro on longer trips I take my portable charger unit and a 50amp and 30amp dog bones. It might take awhile, but getting power is important! Good luck on your trip.
Max charge current should ALWAYS be set at a maximum 80% of the plug's rated capacity.
Yep, 50 Amp plug x 80% = 40 Amps. Charger tops out at 32... not too bad. I haven't actually been able to find any 40 Amp mobile chargers. Manufacturers are probably playing it extra safe when it comes to a device that any dummy can fumble around with.
FYI: The ford charge station pro, (wall mounted/hard wired) unit available for this truck can charge at 80 Amps, and requires a 100 Amp breaker.
(heh, I would need a service panel upgrade!)
@@MCP647 Yeah. I had to upgrade my service panel. My house was a 100 amp service, and between adding two AC units and two 40amp EV charging circuits (we have two EVs), I didn't have enough room on the mains. I've been on the worst case scenario of setting up a property to support EVs twice now. Spendy but worth it.
Wrobg
We RV full time for work, we have NEVER come across a campground with 120v even brand new construction we’re lucky to see 108-110. Many campgrounds we have been do drop to 95-104v during peak time.
I'm betting in the near future campsites will either ban electric charging, or put an extra fee for those who are using their sites for charging. I'm not certain if every campsite can supply enough power to run both the 50 and 30 AMP outlets simultaneously. Many campsites are known for having flakey electrical systems, which is why it's recommended that you get a surge protector/power filter for when you plugin.
I bought one for my RV when I had it and travelled across the continent over 6 months and only found one campground in Northern Ontario where the electricity was so bad (undervoltage, 105V) that it cut out. Could have just been lucky. I was still glad to have it, peace of mind.
3:30 Volts times amps does not equal the current. Current is the amps. Volts times amps actual equals the total power which is watts.
Came here to say this.
other campers can mind their own business
Exactly.
I don’t care if other campers use ac or not.
The Karen’s can mind their own business.
Can I fuel up my ICE tow vehicle there, too?
If you see other people you are not really camping
@@billeldonDunno, can you?
@@billeldon nobody is stopping from towing with an EV and getting a 'Free' charge
Some of the larger RV will be using almost as much power as you, so I don’t see the issue currently. Long term, perhaps power consumption rates may need to be looked at, or just change the metering structure to better calculate usage, and have separate site charges vs power charges. If they want to complain about EV’s charging there, it may come back to hurt them in the pocket book.
@@larrysmith6797 already seen several channels that have and will on a regular basis
@@larrysmith6797 I do
Yes they should charge a fee so they can increase the infrastructure. They would also be able to limit how many evs were charging. Second your box won't work because it likely uses 2 hots instead of a neutral and a hot. Your 30 Amp uses neutral and a hot but your device is expecting two hots.
On a road trip last week I spent 3 nights in campgrounds for charging as a paying cabin guest. One campground just let me plug in for free, another charged me $20 on top of my regular reservation (worked out to $0.35/kWh) and another just flat out refused to let me plug in at any price.
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Only issue would be if you were actually camping with a trailer you would have to balance between charging and using ac and such in the camper
No, you wouldn't as the camper could be plugged into the truck. That way all the juice goes into charging, and it provides simple math as well as provides the protection for the campground's electric grid. Yes, the camper will be a draw, but it should be safer. Other electric vehicles would have the problem you are stating. That truck will not.
Ya. I would plug the truck into the 50 amp campsite outlet and then run the camper off the 30 amp outlet in the bed of the truck. It will take longer to charge the truck, but it's an option.
@@ronaldking1054 Actually a terrible idea and a waste of electricity. You'd be converting voltage from the power pedestal into the EV battery, then inverting it back out the trucks outlets. There is a noticeable loss each time you convert/invert electricity.
@@CallsignVega Yes, there would be a loss, but there would be no way to calculate how much amperage you would draw, and as such, any other option leaves electricity on the table, which should be more significant than the loss of the conversion from dc to ac.
@@ronaldking1054 no way that truck can put out 50 amps like the plug does, maybe lites and power tools no way a trailer
Tommy - no need to flip the cover down when charging Level 2, like you did at 3:10 in the video. I know the Ford Pro (80 amp) connector includes the lower two, but that is to enable bi-directional energy flow. When using the portable charger, thats not an issue, so save yourself an extra step and the risk of accidentally breaking the cover when you close the charge door!
LOL I think he did that without realizing it.
I do wish all EV manufacturers would supply a EVSE like the Lightning. Having a combo Level 1/2 evse will cover any type of AC charging. NEMA 14-50 outlets are very common at RV parks.
I bought the Ford unit for my EQS580. Just wish it could do 9.5amps as I do with my home chargepoint flex.
I think they do. Who does not provide both level 1 and 2?
@@jgreenle1 My Honda Clarity only came with a Level 1 evse that works on 120v. The VW ID.4 is another one.
@@jgreenle1 In fact Mercedes and others supply you with NONE. Mercedes will sell you a level one "emergency" one... For your home they recommend you purchase a Chargepoint home flex.... My guess is "supply" issues are to blame. Ford has done spectacularly well in supplying their EVSE with a dual one. Even Tesla is now selling rather than providing their home chargers.
Volvo C40 & the Xc40 are supplied with changeable level 1 or Level 2 EVSE its great when they are included.
We have been living traveling full time for over 5 years in our Class A. A couple of things.
1.the 50 amp circuit is capable of 12,000 watts where the 30 amp is only 3600 watts. The math is 50 amps x 120 volts x 2 legs equals 12,000 vs 30 amps x 120 volts equals 3600. If you want to add in the 80% reduce accordingly.
2. Without knowing the safety features the charger includes I would highly recommend a good quality EMS system with built in surge protection. Low voltage and power surges can reek terrible damage to the sensitive electronics in RV’s and I can only imagine what it would do to the charging system on the truck!
I own a class A RV and even in the summer heat it doesn't pull anything like the EV does continously. Unfortunately, campsite electricity is notoriously poor, especially if the campsite is full. Low voltage/current can cause all sorts of problems with your camper.
Yes about 8 years ago I had a small 20 foot unit I would plug into 110 outlet I couldn't use the a/c no big deal but the frigid kept switching to and from propane. I should have manually left it on propane because all the switching back and forth it fried the computer in my RV. Definitely need a volt meter when plugging in any thing but a fan or light bulb. All campground electrical isn't the same.
Just a quick reference, we are full time RVing in our travel trailer with our Tesla Model Y as our daily vehicle. During the hot summer month in southern Utah we use an average of 35 kWh (the tower we're plugged into has a digital meter on it) in a 24 hour period which pretty much includes the air conditioner running non stop through out the day (to combat 100+ degree temperatures) plus our other appliances, this does NOT include charging our Y, this is just the electricity used by our RV. Our Model Y has a 75 kWh battery. We've If your arriving at a campsite with a low SOC and want to get up to 80-100% then you will most likely be using more electricity than your neighbor in their travel trailer, we charged from 30%-90% and that was 41.4 kWh provided from the tower. Most campgrounds will include electricity as part of the cost, but some others will charge you extra on top of the site fee (these are usually the longer lease units like month to month sites). As both a RVer and an EV driver I understand issues coming from both sides. We still charge at our campsites though as sometimes they are included, but if not, the $/kWh is still typically cheaper than a SuperCharger.
Good luck finding an available campsite if you are traveling over a weekend. Also, most campgrounds are only open from April thru October. Also, If you are using you EV truck to tow a camper you would have to decide which one you are going to power from the campsite power pedestal since there is only one 50amp outlet. You may be able to get away with only renting a site for $35 per night if it's a state or federal campground...that cost is more like $80 per night at a private campground. Pretty sure I'm keeping my gasoline powered 5.7L Hemi.
Been traveling the country in my Rivian and haven't paid a dime in charging 👌
Most people are seriously uneducated on how much power EV's use and how much power actually costs. While the f150 lightning uses a substantial amount compared to most electric vehicles it is very cheap to charge on level 2. However for example, my wife worked at a state park campground in Ohio. They regularly have power outages in summer during normal operations in hot weather and they ask people to run fridges on propane and turn up thermostats. Their electric system is not upgraded to the requirements of modern RV's. Just because a park has say 30 50 amp sites doesn't mean every site can draw 40 amps continuously. Air conditioners cycle on and off as most loads do. An ev is a constant load. Our grid is not adequately prepared for all EVs yet as well as most homes, campgrounds and such.
TLDR: There are two kinds of adapters and you bought the wrong one.
Regarding your adapter that didn’t work: The 3 prong outlet is called a TT-30 and it has one hot wire (120vac), one neutral wire (at ground voltage, but designed to carry current), and one ground wire. The four prong outlet (nema 14-50) has two hot wires (each 120vac from ground and 240vac from each other), a neutral, and a ground. When converting from 3 to 4 wires, one prong on the 14-50 will be left unconnected. The converter may connect neutral to neutral, leaving one of the hots unconnected. This is probably the most common type of converter and will not work for the type of charger you have. A converter intended for use with an EV will not connect the neutral wire on the 14-50 side to anything and will instead connect the neutral from the TT-30 as one of the two hot wires on the 14-50 side. This leaves you with a nema 14-50 outlet that only has 120vac between the two hots, a functional ground, and no neutral. It’s also only capable of handling 30amps, even though it’s a 50amp outlet. This will work for many car chargers, although if they’re picky, they might reject the 120vac when 240vac was expected. They might also reject ground appearing to be at the same voltage as one of the hots. If this does work for you, be sure to lower your charge current to 30amps or less. And as others have pointed out, you should not try to draw more than 80% of the rated current for more than a few minutes, so in this case you would need to adjust the charge current to 24 amps. This means you’d be getting just under 3kw.
Edit: Another comment pointed out that the adapter in the video probably connects the 120v hot to each of the hots on the 14-50, resulting in 0v difference. This makes more sense. Still, same end result.
Some vehicles at least will limit to 12amps on any 120V source.
Yeah I think what they want is the "Parkworld 885378 EV Adapter Cord NEMA TT-30P to 14-50R (ONLY for EV or Tesla use, NOT for RV )", I just bought one but haven't tried it out yet.
Tommy, you're not interpreting breakers correctly. A 15 amp breaker will trip at 15 amps. Continuous duty on a circuit is 80% of the breaker's rating. The 32 amp rating of the trucks charger at 240 volts is presuming it will be plugged into a 40 amp breaker. Consequently a L2 charger rated at 40 amps will be presuming being plugged into a 50 amp breaker. You'll find that one rated at 40 amps plugged into a 40 amp rated circuit will in fact trip it. The 80% continuous duty is to eliminate overheating the wiring and causing a fire, while giving you enough room to energize transformers or inductive loads within a circuit.
In campgrounds, you should always use a surge protector. Campground electrical infrastructures are not always as reliable as residential. It’s the campground owners that will not be real happy with you charging your EV. I was in a campground earlier this year where every electrical pedestal had a sign that said there was a $100.00 fine for charging EV’s.
Wow...where was this campground charging fines for EVs. Yikes!
Only the govt can fine 🤩
I guess, if push comes to shove, the $100 fine is still cheaper than needing to call for a tow truck to get home.
I work as a Park Technician for government campgrounds...and we definitely don't care if people charge their EVs as long as they pay for the site (which we would catch them at worst after a few hours because we constantly check between us and the hosts). IWe are equipped to handle the load. There are master "main" breakers at each "loop" which would trip if everyone was charging EVs at the same time. For example, one campground loop we have can handle up to 72k kw. There are about 20 sites in that loop which means that at any one time every site could draw about 3600 kw if averaged out. The most realistic scenarios I could see we trip the main breaker because of overload (not because of a short) would be if everyone was in that site during the day with their dual air conditioners running at the same time. It's unlikely though as an average A/C is about 1500w. In that particular example loop we have a nema 14-50 connection at each site whereas in other loops "we are equipped" because we only have the 30amp@120v connections along with the master "main" breaker. Not realistic to think every site would be drawing max load, at least not for maybe a decade from now when there are more EVs on the roads. Since most campers don't actually use very much electricity at all, and EVs are proportionally less frequent of a camper, we are not concerned about people charging their EVs
If all of the campground sites happened to be full of EVs at the same time charging the maximum draw the main breakers would just trip and we wouldn't care, we would just reset it and if it kept tripping we would wait until people figured it out. We wouldn't care because if you don't expect there to be a power outage at a campground after you happen upon one that you see has nothing but EVs then we don't want you at our campgrounds anyway. We would be happy to direct you to the nearest EV charging station. The campgrounds are for leisure and enjoyment. So far in the last 9 years of working in this industry I've only seen at most three EVs in the same loop charging, while they tent camped.
I tried to look it up, and supposedly and "average" for RV is 20kWh a day. BUT, it can vary very wildly. A large luxury 5th wheel will use as much as house. They have washers and dryers, tvs, multiple air conditioners or heaters, multiple fans,...and they will draw right around 50 amps or so. I was actually reading that some of them have to be selective in what they use or they will pop breakers. So, I wouldn't worry about charging up.
It’s quite rare for a 50 amp RV to use anywhere near 50 amps, or even 40 amps. And the load isn’t continuous like an EVSE does.
Note a 50 amp RV outlet is actually 70 amps more than a 30 amp RV outlet.
Yes, but consider that in a campground with, say, 100 spots, only a few of those would be taken up by the monster 5ers. Most campers will be 30A and some will only use the 20A plugs. IF you switch those to all EVs charging, that's where the problems arise. Also, what do you do when you have both an EV truck AND a big 5er at the same site?
@@emanuelneiconi it depends on where you are camping. Most of the campgrounds I frequent they are filled with Class A's and 5th Wheels.
As for what do you do when you have a 5th Wheel and an EV, easy, you charge the EV from the 5th Wheel and you meter the power going to the EV from what's left over from the 5er.
@@ericroe Ah yes good point. I had state parks on the brain because of this video. There’s still a lot to be done and thought about when it comes to EVs especially trucks and towing.
The middle plug did not work because that is still 120volts but 30amps and the charger was looking for 240 volts when using the other dongle
You cannot use an off the shelf adapter to go from TT-30 to 14-50... that's a 120 to 240 conversion. What that off the shelf adapter does it connect 120v to each of the hot legs on the 14-50 and the neutral to neutral. The EVSE expects power on the two hot legs... so the 120v and neutral have to be connected to the two "hot" pins on the 14-50...
When using the 120v outlet the Ford Mobile Charger has no way of knowing if it is a 20amp vs. 15 amp circuit and can only pull 80% of the rating. That means 120 vAC charging is limited to 12 amps. Others have commented on why the 30 amp adapter doesn't work.
7:26 The reason you don't have a light on the ford charger is that the truck is expecting 240VAC as you are using a NEMA 14-50 plug on the cable. This by default is 240V type plug. The outlet that you are plugging into is the TT-30 outlet which is a 120VAC 30A RV outlet. Therefore the ford cable won't see the proper voltage and not turn on. I am not sure if ford sells other dongles, but I know that others sell the specific TT30 adapter for the charger. You have to be very careful when using adapters between different plug sets. The reason for example if you use the NEMA 14-50 dongle off the ford charger, but then use an adapter to go to NEMA 14-30 for a dryer for example, the truck will think its plugged into a 50A outlet and over current and potentially melt the wiring of the 30A outlet. That is why its important to use the correct dongle without adapters unless they are the same current and voltage rating. For example the TT-30 RV plug is the same as the L5-30 in that they are both 120VAC 30A outlet standards, just one with straight pins and the other with locking pins used in the marine environment.
There is a special EV adapter for the TT-30. The RV one puts the same phase across the power pins and so the adapter sees 0V. The EV one puts 120V across the pins and it works at least on my Tesla.
Those 3 prong outlets in RV parks are not 240v outlets. They are RV specific 120v outlets, not household dryer outlets at 240v.
I’m an avid camping enthusiast and I don’t think charging at the campgrounds is an issue. It was hydroelectric power at the last place we camped in Arkansas.
A big difference in rv power consumption is they do not pull a large load constantly. The most my rv pulled in the heat of the day was about 22-23 amps. My load center would heat the hot water with propane, or shut off an ac if I tried to pull more than that.
My inverter would kick in and draw off battery when the voltage dipped to assist in lowering the draw.
One key piece of info, probably covered below in comments is you should never draw more than 80% of the amperage of a circuit breaker. So in the case of the 120v on the 20 amp you would multiply by 16amps * 120 volts = 1.9 kW (not 2.4kW). In the case of TT30 24 amps off a 30amp breaker * 120 volts = 2.9kW and if you could max out on the 14-50 the max would be 40amps (80% of 50) * 240 v = 9.6 kW. In the case of a dongle like a TT30 you will need to dial the amps down manually to 24amps. Otherwise great video. The argument against EVs in RV parks is the continuous draw of power and the age and condition of the wiring. Some are fine with it some are not.
Also keep in mind that the EVSE unit Ford provided doesn't know that you are at a 20 amp outlet. The specific plug on that dongle is valid for 15 AMP outlets so it probably de-rates down to 12 amps or less. If the dongle had the 20 amp "cross + vertical" blade configuration, it might run at 16 amps. From the video, it sounded like the truck was estimating just over a kilowatt hour per hour delivered after some conversion losses.
@@tomkirchman5808 Correct. The box assumes the typical household draw of 12 amps max. My Bolt actually defaults in the charging area of the infotainment to 8 amps to assume the plug is being shared by other loads, and to reduce stress on older wiring. You can override this to 12 amps, and it'll give you a warning about this very thing.
That 110v outlet will charge at less than 1 KW. Our local Dragstrip let us charge through a 110 and it couldn’t draw more than 1 KW. Our other local track has Nema 14-50 outlets and we can get 8-9 KW for our Teslas there.
Yep about 1 kW sounds correct. I was thinking that 5 days at 2,4kW was impossible (as that would be almost 300kWh charged). So they needed to charge about 115kW, at 1 kW that would be about 5 days.
As a long time RV ‘er as well as an owner of several Teslas, I can tell you that IF RV folks are having any heartburn about parking electric vehicles in camping spots, it is 100% a lack of education in that crowd. Most of them don’t have the ability to purchase an electric vehicle that will appropriately haul their travel trailers, fifth wheels or class A electric guzzling dual air conditioning mansions on wheels. The campsite rental fee that is paid absolutely covers the cost of any electricity and probably uses less than some of those gigantic 50 amp service required monstrosities that people choose to “camp“ in lol
Charging that Lightning from 22% to 100% would have used (131 kWh * 78%) / 90% efficiency = 113.5 kWh. At the 23 cents/kWh it costs in Alaska, that's $26 worth of juice. A 15,000 BTU A/C unit uses 1.5 kWh of electricity per hour. Running two of them non-stop for 24 hours will use 72 kWh.
Regarding that 50amp camp circuit: you said that you cannot take down the park, but that is not true. I did it. The park was full, I plugged in max and everything blew at the main transformer. I had to teach the Ranger how to reset the main box. It was a double 300amp. main breaker. Do the math: It was servicing about 30 sites at max 50 amp each. That is 1500amp (5x) the available. Even your home breaker panel is not designed to run everything at maximum usage. (Check that out at your own home). Parks will need to run infrastructure for EV sites separately in order to supply enough power and avoid this embarrassing situation.
Please keep up the great content guys.
I live in an RV park on a military base @$420 per month in my 37' trailer which includes power and water. I got a new tesla M3P that I charge here for free. Loving it.
Notice that the 30 amp (center breaker) is physically a single breaker as compared to the adjacent 20 amp circuit breaker (farthest right) that support the conventional looking wall style plug. It’s quite common for many mid size RVs to only be wired for 120 volts but may need a bit more amperage than a typical 15-20 amp wall plug can provide. So the 30 amp 120 volt circuit is provided for those RV applications. Whereas the 50 amp circuit breaker application is typically needed for larger RVs as positioned (farthest left) in this video. If you look closely it is actually two breakers fitted side by side. This tandem breaker configuration supports the NEMA 50 plug which ultimately is 240 volts as it connects upstream to two separate 120 volt legs of a 240 volt single phase electric panel bus bar. ie 120 volt leg + 120 volt leg = 240 volts.
The one thing about campgrounds is they don't necessarily have the best power and you should have a RV surge protector for either 30 or 50 amp depending on what you are using.
can you imagin being at fee bag camp ground changing ford lighting hell no
In reference to your conjecture regarding getting a bigger charger to connect to the NEMA 14-50 outlet you cannot get more than 40 amps from the 50 amp outlet because the EV charger is a continuous draw; meaning it requires 125% of the charging amps on the connected circuit, b/c 125% of 40 is 50 amps. Your plug in charger is rated at 32 amps to allow for a buffer so you don’t keep popping the breaker. The other issue is that in a campground typically multiple campsites may share a master circuit rated for maybe 150 amps so if everyone is charging an EV next to each other then it likely will degrade your charging rate and make the circuit prone to tripping.
There is also the fact that the EV would be taking a spot that could be used for an RV. it's already difficult as it is to find available sites nowadays.
I just completed a 6,000 mile US road trip in my 2021 Model 3 SR+
Over 13 days of driving (July 10 through July 31, 2022, with time in Kentucky) from Sacramento CA to Louisville KY and back (with numerous side trips), I drove nearly half what I drive in a year.
Shortest distance ~300 miles. Longest drive 650+ miles. Average ~450 miles.
The final analysis: Wow. This is definitely a road warrior vehicle, despite so-called “conventional wisdom.”
I am still plugging in metrics and numbers, but I estimate about 60 charging stops. In all those stops, I only had ONE 5 minute wait, at Glenwood Springs, CO. One. 5 minutes. I’ve waited longer in a grocery store line.
I drove through and charged in major cities (LA, Amarillo, OK City, Little Rock, Memphis, Nashville, St. Louis, Kansas City, Denver, Salt Lake City) and countless small towns and wide spots in the road. Typically, I was either the only one there or one of two Teslas. My typical stop was 20-25 minutes. Enough time to have a short walk about, use the bathroom, grab a bottle of water, and then get back on the road (the breaks, and auto pilot, assured I’d be rested and relaxed after hours of travel).
Weekdays, weekends, rush hour, nighttime, huge supercharger (50+) or small (4), interstate or blue highway… I drove and charged through them all. No cherry picking.
~60 superchargers. 6,000 miles. 13 days of driving. In July 2022. One wait. 5 minutes.
I can’t speak for others. But a complete success in my book.
Until there are more people with an EV and you wait a few days for a charger
@@jimbob1096 Every day, new charging stations are being constructed and put online for use. It’s not a static number.
My own recently completed trip across the US debunks this weak, ineffective attempt at scaring people from considering an EV.
Plus, the vast majority of EV owners, myself included, do the vast majority of charging at home, where there is zero waiting.
You need a special adapter for electric vehicles to charge on the 30 amp 120, an RV dog bone won't work for that
Many camp sites in Florida charge for electricity. So if you charge your truck, you pay for it. Other campsites include the electric in the site cost - there I can see the argument. But not when pay electric separate. Further, you charge the truck only once during a camping trip. While when you run 3 A/C units on a camper they are running constant - for days. Should the tent camper complain about the guy running A/C unit? You can solve the discussion by charging for electric, pretty easy.
I would keep a multi meter with the truck to check any of these connections prior to use. Only takes a few seconds and could save some frustration
Hi Tommy, let me help you out... With electricity, current is measured in amps. So Voltage multiplied by Amps equals Wattage, which is the Power (the rate of doing work, measured in watts). Voltage is applied, current is drawn in amps, and the multiplied sum is the power in wattage.
The reason other campers don't like the idea of EV's charging at campgrounds could also be that it will be harder to find available spots for camping since EV's will be competing for the same spaces that provide electrical hookups. Some camping sites fill quickly and can be difficult to find an available spot.
So, I’m not really sure what the question is surrounding paying for charging or using the electrical hookup at a campsite. If your staying at a site with a hookup, you are paying to use the electricity provided, doesn’t matter if you have your huge rv with a fridge, AC, TV and who knows what else running, or charging the huge battery in your truck. They built these sites so that literally every spot can have an RV in it plugged in drawing up to 50 amps. These campgrounds have PLENTY of times where all the sites are full and all of them are plugged in at the same time, it doesn’t matter, it’s literally how the campground is designed. Been that way long before EV’s. Nothings going to happen if you parked a truck at every spot and charged because nothing already happens when RV’s do the exact same thing. So no, you shouldn’t pay more, you should pay what an RV pays for the same access. Which is already part of the fee.
EVs represent a more constant long term load if charging from empty or near empty. RV systems cycle on and off as needed. There is indeed a difference. Right now, one EV in a campground isn't going to make a big difference in the grand scheme of things, but several years from now, the narrative might change. Most campgrounds will just raise their nightly rates across the board to cover any extra costs. - Just like they've done since the pandemic with the high demand for sites thanks to all the new RV owners.
Any load in the truck ? I bet it's empty ! A friend has one and when 2 adults 2 kids and less than 2 tonn’s caravan is on he needs charge every 80/130 miles or 2/3 hours but has 400 miles apparently empty sorry but it's a pickup for doing heavy duty things !!!!!! Your using a big TOY !
My Landover 2.7 can do nearly 600 miles per tank and only takes 10 mins to fill !!!!!!! 14 hours every day lol that will get old by the 3rd charge !!
@@danpaquette4346 Very good explanation. However, lefties don’t care about facts or how things ACTUALLY work - they only care about LOOKING right (as opposed to actually BEING right). Maybe this person is an exception, but most lefties won’t care about the truth of the matter.😊
The other item here past using the wrong plug is that if you have a 30 or 50 amp breaker that does not mean you can use the full amount of said breaker. It will kick. You have to use below the size amount. Also, a camper is not using full amount of the power supplied by the breaker. Most campers use DC voltage supplied products so you can use batteries where no power exists, so they are inverting the power already.
Your Ford with a camper shell on it is no different from a typical RV running off a 50 amp outlet. If you try to draw more than 55-60 amps, the breaker will trip, so you aren’t drawing any more power at 32 amps than a diesel pusher RV with AC, fridge, 2 air conditioners or heaters with electric resistance strips in the winter. Probably less. It’s none of the other campers business what you are doing at your campsite, nor yours at theirs.
An RV "50 amp" plug actually provides 100 amps. Notice that it's actually 2-50A breakers. So in reality if the charger maxes out at 32A you're really using a lot less than what it's capable of and what someone with a multi-AC unit would draw.
@@andrewsteenbuck8537 I am not an electrician, but I think that is dangerous misinformation. The two 50 amp breakers are on separate legs of the 220 circuit so no, the limit is 50 amps. In fact for continuous applications such as car charging, you must not exceed 80% of the 50 amps, so 40 amps is the limit if you don't want to risk damaging their equipment.
@@andrewsteenbuck8537 Uhh no.
@@andrewsteenbuck8537 Incorrect. If you overload one leg of that circuit, it will trip both. That's why they're ganged together. You're are limited to the 50, and even that is not continuous duty. That rating on the breaker is its TRIP rating, not maximum continuous duty. It's dangerous to assume you have 100 amps as you have no ability to balance your load on that breaker effectively enough.
@@dfgriggs You are correct.
We camp a lot at state park campgrounds, especially in Oregon. I'm not against EV and we've had one - but my issue is down the road I feel this will cause two issues.
1: site rates will increase due to extra energy consumption.
2: folks will start booking sites just to charge due to their potentially lower cost and may not use the site for their designed use. (We see that already so much in Oregon.. Coastal campgrounds full but physically only 70% using their site because reservations need be made 6 months in advance and of course weather or life events change)
WOW! I never thought of that. The biggest concern people have is the lack of charging stations in remote areas... yet, there are DEFINITELY RV camp sites in remote areas with 220v service.👍
No, the biggest concern we have this being forced on us by the government at a speed that does not take into account the devastating effect it will have on workingfamilies. Destruction of the oil and gas industry will destroy the country. Period. "Climate change" is an artificial crisis.....that's been around for 100yrs. It's a lie folks.....
The only campground in Mojave, CA had only 30 amp outlets. It take me 10 minutes or less to put gas in my Jeep. My 150 gallon tank in the motor home takes longer from car pumps but truck pumps also fill the motor home up in around 10 minutes. There are also a lot of campgrounds that don't have power at the camp site.
Most RV's will only draw about 8-15 amps at the 240 volt 50 amp circuit, unless they are running a pair of air conditioners. Then it can draw up to about 25 amps. Still a A/C unit will only draw about 1 KW per unit per hour, so not nearly the 7 KW that your charger is using.
Some campgrounds have a separate charge for electricity when camping less than a week, and allow 5 KW per day free and charge about $0.20 per KW for excess power. At that rate, your use might be 100 KW at 0.20 per KW or $20 in extra electricity. I typically would only use 2-3 KW overnight unless I ran my A/C unit. Then 7 KW overnight, because the compressor does not run the while night, but about 30 minutes each hour until about midnight.
So offering to pay a little extra for the extra electricity is fair.
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So 14 hours on 240v level charging similar to what most homes can provide to go from 25% to 100%. I can’t remember the range you guys were getting with 100% - 200 miles? So drive 3-4 hours and charge for 14? In 20min you gained 2mi of range. Exciting stuff.
The range of the Ford Lightning with the standard battery is 230 miles. With the extended battery, it's 300 miles between charges.
That's why high speed chargers are considered essential for conventional road trips. These level 2 type chargers are called destination chargers for a reason. This video was made because they took an unconventional adventure to show that it could be done, not that it's your standard trip.
@@zzanatos2001 But towing sees as low as 100, and steep grades heading to campsites would drop range as well.
I use campgrounds more because they have charging for my PHEV, also they have motel units and cabins for comfort. . The battery is much smaller, but it means I can have free local driving. Also.... When rural camping, it gives me power from the car for my portable fridge, fans, heaters, and even electric blanket in the tent! EV and campgrounds are best friends!
Those 240 boxes at campgrounds use to drive me insane! I would’ve been surprised if it had worked 🤣🤣
Food for thought. I live in Phoenix area. Just got solar recently with battery backup. I can see house power usage (roughly 1200sf). House AC set at 78 (lower if i do more physical work), the most used in a day is 55kwh and it is July with 100+ degree days and 90 degree mornings. You are trying to charge 80% which is roughly 105kw. Another consideration is only a few high users versus many high users which can tax the overall system.
I would be more concerned of the 3 hours driving (maybe) and the 14 hours of setting while it charges so I can drive another 3 hours. And even that depends on if the campground has 240 volts available. Many or possibly most campground only have 30 amp, 110 volts available, especially in the northwest where the temp doesn't stay in the 90's - 100's like it does in the south. That's going to make for a long, long, long, trip to Alaska.
wait, i assumed that if the campsite has 30 amp that I am guarantied to get 240v? I'm planning a Winnipeg to Vancouver road trip with a 60 kWh Bolt. And out of the 5 sites I contacted so far I got 1 stating that "their grid is not designed for ev charging"
@@Liefpj They sometimes have 120v 30amp plugs. Using plug step downs will not help you though.
Buy a different EVSE that has the correct adapters or can manually change the amps so you don’t blow the breakers.
When you used the adapter plug it’s energizing both L1 and L2 with the same 120v leg while the ford power brick is trying to use it at 240v. The voltage from L1 to L1 is going to be 0 (and why it doesn’t turn on).
It is an interesting idea. Maybe this will get people to like driving again. go to a couple campgrounds. Stay at a spot and enjoy the camps amenities while you wait for the charge and then move on. Never even unhook your truck. this could make trips where the parents are letting the kids get some fun at the pool and other stuff while getting some food and taking a nap before having to drive to the next stop. Driving every 100 miles and stopping would hurt but at least kids would see a lot of things and probably have a more enjoyable trip.
Some rough math for how fast it is charging, assuming the full 5 days to full charge on Monday because I don't know what time on Wednesday you started.
(130kWh - (22% * 130kWh)) / (24h * 5) = 845Wh of charging power, lets round to maybe 900Wh peek charging from 120V@20A outlet.
(130kWh - (22% * 130kWh)) / (14h) = 7242Wh of charging power, lets round to maybe 7300Wh peek charging form a 240V@32A outlet.
Quite the difference in charging power!
I love my Lightning, but can't really charge it at home because I need to get an additional service added and the projected wait time for that project is about 18-20 months. So I am stuck paying for DC fast charging at the local Kroger store.
In regards to the truck charging dilemma. I think as evs become more popular there will be push back at older campgrounds. Places that don't have individual meters on each site might push back or charge higher rates to charge since they can't monitor. Other campgrounds that have the additional meters could treat you like a long term renter and bill you for your electric usage upon checkout.
They aren't going to be more popular. People are realize you are exporting toxic ass pollution to Africa, and there isn't enough raw materials to replace everyone's car with an EV. So good job outsourcing pollution. Making these batteries is toxic and pollutes way more than a gas car.
Why would you even try pulling a camper with these worthless piles of sh!t.
I would think that it would be a monumental cost for a campground to put new service's in ? and I don't think there will be a a lot people that are going to pull a camper with a EV ?
Having a class A motor home that in the summertime needs the 50 amp connection to run the two A/Cs, I can tell you that except for that I use really little current as all my appliances, including the fridge run on propane. And I have an onboard 6 kw generator if the power goes out.
If you are going to use campsites for charging I suggest that you get an outlet checker to make sure you won't damage your charger.
@3:30
Tommy, I think you meant voltage x amps (current) = Power (Watts).
Tommy didn't know any better
Runs an EV channel...knows nothing.
I foresee a compromise being: elec monitors at campsites to charge elec usage. The downside then becomes trailers/RVs might run their generators instead of paying (maybe…).
Either way I do agree an EV shouldn’t just come in to charge only; they need to pay for the site (in case anyone is suggesting that). In BC you have to reserve sites 2-3mosnin advance anyway!
Ac and electric heat are the two biggest consumers.
But many campgrounds electric systems are terrible. So what you are suggesting is a bad idea
The plug for the dryer is a Neema 1350, if I am not mistaken, the prong below the ground on a 4-wire dryer cord has a 90° bend. The plug adapter you have is for a range and is rated at 50 amps. I used to deliver appliances for Lowe’s and had to not install dryers for people that had the range outlet as the breaker wouldn’t trip if there was a short in the dryer (dryer circuit 30 amps/ range 50 amps) possibly causing a fire.
A typical dryer connection would be a 14-30 (for 30 amp), which is similar to but physical incompatible with a 14-50 (for 50 A), despite what is said in the video. There is no 14-30 connection shown, or found on an RV or in a campground.
well the campground i visited last year had like a 2€/day price for an electric hookup so a bunch of large battery EVs coming over and charging while staying for a single night would definetly mean they would have to raise the price. but there are RV parking lots that actually charge by kWh and i wouldn't really have a problem charging on that. also, yeah, if i had something like a 3 phase (i am in Europe) charging on my EV, i would definetly consider buying a portable EVSE that has adjustable power and comes with many adapters.
There are many people confused by electrical formulas. Best to get the words right. Voltage times current is watts, not amps. Probably an unconscious error while on camera but worth editing to make your videos correct. And note, watts, not kilowatts. It takes 1000 watts to make a kilowatt. So let’s not say volts times amps equals kilowatts… 240 x 10 amp = 2400 watts, or 2.4 kw. Encourage your viewers to understand the basics correctly. And when gesturing at a bunch of sockets, don’t call them plugs. :)
Why wouldn’t other campers like it? How’s it any different than plugging in their big trailers?
Tribal thinking. EV = bad. So much for personal freedom.
People think EVs “take” too much power and that it is some kind of thievery to charge from a “normal” outlet, even a 50-amp connection meant to power an entire mobile “house”. They think charging an EV goes above and beyond the energy covered by the usual campground fees. Exactly like the apartment dwellers who keep unplugging and even cutting EV charging cables.
One RV A/C unit needs about 10 kwh per day, Even when you run 3 of those - you end up with 30kwh per day. That's what campgrounds calculate into the site cost. When you charge your truck you pull 100kwh per day. + the 30kwh for you trailer. So the campground either need to up the charge for the site or charge for electric cost separate (which is already happening) which would be probably the fair model. Get billed for what you use instead of a blanket site cost.
@@sebastiant5695 If what you were saying were true, then they wouldn't have a 50-amp breaker. The startup costs for the circuit are not that high for camping. They have already priced in the amount of power they think someone will draw, and that truck would be in it just as the presenter stated. You, who are not in the contract, are the only one complaining about the contract that the campground provided to someone else. What is worse is that you did not complain that the campground who gave you the same contract was not overproviding services and as such, the campground would be overcharging you.
Most RVs don’t use anywhere near the full rated amperage most of the time. The voltage at most campgrounds will sag quite a bit if lots of people run their air conditioners, which are only about 1-2kw each. If you plug in your EV and draw 6 to 8 kw, that’s like addling 4-8 more AC units. The park voltage will sag more, and you might even cause a sub panel breaker to pop.
The challenge is to be able to plug in your electric vehicle and at the same time keep your camper fully charged. We have thought about buying a Rivion, but how can we do both when on a trip? Plus, apparently electric trucks only get about 50% in distance when towing a load such as a camper. At this point I don't think technology has reached a point where it makes practical sense to tow something such an Airstream behind you for an extended trip.
Eltric air extraam big bater cherry rev
In a remote area can you get a charge from a generator? And what is the smallest wattage generator like a Honda 2000 watt or would it have to be bigger ? I like the campground charging idea, something I haven't thought about, I don't see why it would be a problem if you're camping anyway.
you can, but that 2000w honda is only good for about the same as a regular 120v outlet like they showed at the beginning of the video. So, a very long time charging. You could go to a bigger generator, but then you're looking at needing the fuel to keep it fed.
You would want to use a 5000 to 10,000 watt generator.
search other youtube videos for generator level1/2 charging... most don't provide enough power, especially 240v, but bigger issue is pure sine-wave output or not... some EV charger bricks flake out or fail with false sine wave generators. They would be loud/smelly, but of course that applies to RV generators too.
interestingly, one campground I visited had TWO 30amp 120v outlet at each pedestal, along with the normal 20amp outlet, and NO 50amp. I was, though, able to use my DUAL 30amp 120v to 50amp 240v 'Y' adapter to create 240v power and charge the truck during the overnight stay - by the way, I also provided power to the camper FROM the truck's ProPower 30amp outlet... nice.
This type of campground outlet option is NOT common, but it certainly made for faster charging with the adapter.
The only ethical dilemma going forward is the limited number of RV campsites with full hookups. If EV drivers start renting campsites to charge their vehicle, RV's will have an even more difficult time in finding overnight locations (which has become a crisis during the pandemic and RV boom). If you rent a campsite with full hookups, the camp host is expecting your vehicle to use electricity. The only time that there is an extra charge for electricity is for long-term rentals; RV's that stay in the same campsite for a month or more.
There is no ethical dilemma. If you are going to a camp site to charge your EV, then you're most likely going to be spending overnight there anyways (ie. camping). For me I've camped out of my Tesla many times with each time reserving an RV site with full hookups. In my case, my "RV" is literally my EV. Whether my vehicle is a full RV, trailer RV attached to a truck, or EV doesn't matter.
@@ElectricGlider2016 you are responding as an EV pilot. I can tell you as both an EV owner and an RV owner, RV travelers are upset when they see EV's occupying campsites that were meant for large RV's. Campsite rentals are at a premium in some areas (especially on weekends). This issue is similar to RV's and truck stops. In the RV community, the rule is to not take a spot that could be occupied by a truck. The same will apply to campgrounds. In a busy campground, EV's should not occupy the space set aside for a large RV (coach/trailer). Hopefully, campgrounds will see the business opportunity that EV's are and engineer smaller campsites with electricity into their developments.
@@bikergeekgd I already know of an RV park that has been adding a couple destination chargers to standard drive in camping spots and charging a premium for them, so the market will handle it in due time. When it's a problem, the business will come up with a remedy. Someone may not be happy about it, but business will go on.
@@bikergeekgd Sorry but you represent the minority who feel this way. Literally everybody who I've talked to at camp sites both users, park rangers, and camp ground heads have all welcomed me when I came in and camped in my Tesla overnight. Maybe the camp grounds I've been to all over Texas are just a lot nicer and accommodating than the community you're in, but I will say that your username does fit you if you do have this type of selfish "RVs only" attitude and also try to speak for the entire RV community.
@@ElectricGlider2016 your responses are starting to get personal and obnoxious. All that I am saying is that before you occupy a campsite with full hookups that is meant for a 20-40' RV, use some discretion and consider RV travelers. I own a Tesla and an RV and would never put my Tesla in a spot that is meant for an RV unless it was an emergency. Car/tent campers aren't meant to occupy RV campsites. If the campground is empty, book whatever site you want. But I can tell you that there aren't a lot of decent, empty RV campsites east of Texas. The RV community follows an etiquette. Class B RV van owners don't book pull-through sites that are meant for big rigs. Tent campers stay out of RV sites. And so on. If a mass of EV car owners start booking RV campsites, the lack of RV overnight accommodations will become worse. than it already is. As I mentioned previously, I hope that campgrounds see a business opportunity for EV cars/trucks and setup EV-specific campsites with electricity.
Never… What is this BS about charging for free? I had a friend come by a few weeks ago and he immediately asked where he could plug in? WTH is this all about…. It’s not free, it’s never free?
At 3:25 you’re calculating power not current. Volts multiplied by the current (amperage) equals power (wattage). Not that important unless you’re putting together an electrical system in which case it’s crucial.
As an electrical engineer, that snippet made me cringe
@@WayneBruce26 haha glad I’m not the only one that raised an eyebrow. It’s a great video and didn’t want to nit pick but figure it’s worth pointing out incase an amateur like myself doesn’t get confused and burn their house down.
FYI. That 120v outlet is actually rated max of 15A. The 20A outlets have a T-shape slot on one side. 👌
At 5:25, the breaker is 20 amps. But yes, the installed outlet should be a heavy duty outlet with the t slot.
I watched another channel who was pulling a travel trailer with an electric vehicle. They used the 50 amp circuit to charge the EV and the 30 amp circuit for the camper. Also consider that the EV charging is a continuous use of the power source whereas if you were only using the power source for your camper, your a/c is cycling on and off, your refrigerator is cycling on and off, lights are a low voltage draw, appliance use is intermittent, etc., etc. So yes, those other campers know that EV is using more than their fair share of power and the campground will have no choice but to raise the rates for all, or preferably, charge an additional fee for electric vehicles.
Lol. No body runs their air conditioners at night?
That EV charging probably does not draw as much as an RV
RV ac will need about 3kw to start and 1.5kw to run. And they don't run continuously. Larger RVs could have 2 or 3 ac units.
The vehicle will 8kw continuously. Roughly $1/hr for power.
@@davidmcgee2126 Intermittent vs continuous. At the present time, it is not an issue for campsites as most folks realize pulling a camper with an EV is fool's folly.
Need to set up an EV with a flat tow and set to regen braking when rv brakes so charges only when braking
Level 2 will still take overnight or 8 hours to charge. It may be an option if you are camping out there too. Level 1 just won't work. It will take a week to charge your battery