Born Evil - Sunny's Spiel | Warriors Analysis
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 20 окт 2023
- Born evil or born good, that is the perfect dichotomy that exists if your fictional world is completely black and white, but Warriors never has been despite the insistence in its framing, and almost every attempt at a born evil character has, before or after that declaration, been given complexity or motivations that undermine the entire purpose of that character. Guess it’s time to break this down and see why these characters fail, and if there is any hope of making these villains better.
Patreon: / sunnyfall
Bluesky: bsky.app/profile/sunnyfall.bs...
Paws of Stars Fanfiction: archiveofourown.org/series/18...
Contact Email: sunnyfall99@gmail.com
Discord Server: / discord
End Card Song: Ponte de Abril - Steve Adams • Video 
Кино
Honestly i feel like Tigerstar the 1st's evil is probably Starclan's fault - if they hadn't sent either of their visions to Pinestar/Goosefeather, he really wouldn't have fallen into Thisleclaw's influence and become evil. But then again, this is warrior cats and Starclan *always has* to be in the right, even when they just,,, aren't.
I mean, they literally told Pinestar "Hey please kill your son because he's evil" and then later gave him nine lives to keep ShadowClan going bc "Brokenstar was still alive so we couldn't give Nightstar his lives" although they gave Sunstar his lives despite Pinestar still being alive at that point so who actually knows wtf goes on with StarClan
Ah how I love self fulfilling prophecies
@@U2notyoutoo I'd love that!
Like why do we still have starclan in the books they are the reason why tragedies happen like they contribute nothing for the books just a bunch of characters who are pushed into the background and ruin by the authors after like starclan just make me sick at this point
Brokenstar being Yellowfang's punishment for having kits as a med cat by making him "born evil" is so stupid
Why did they even punish her?? She got pregnant as a WARRIOR! Should she have gotten a cat abortion?? Why does Mudfur get to keep the kit he had as a warrior without issue but Yellowfang gets divine punishment??
Because she cat
No yellowfang was a medicine cat when she had kits Yellowfang doesn't want to give up her life with Raggedpelt, but eventually agrees, and Raggedpelt isn't fond of her decision. However, they agree to be mates in secret Yellowfang gives birth to three kits alone in the forest, though her two daughters die shortly after. She names the surviving kit Brokenkit it says right here
Because w o m a n
That wasnt why. Remember the prologue where the dead medicine cat mentions it? Well Brokenstar was supposed to be the clans punishment for driving out Skyclan.
Yellowfang only thinks its her punishment.
@@thisisastrobbery363but brokenstar’s reign didn’t really affect riverclan at all. if his birth was meant to punish all of the clans, why did specific clans suffer more, others less, and one not at all?
Male "morally grey" characters in Warriors seem to get waaaay more leeway than female ones. Leopardpool and Squirrelflight have to FACE A TRIAL for DOING WHAT STARCLAN TOLD THEM TO DO/MANIPULATED THEM INTO DOING, but Bramblestar can gleefully decide to murder pregnant mothers and Ashfur can attempt to eliminate a family (not referring to Broken Code) without the authors/Starclan blinking an eye.
The whole "Darktail was born evil" thing was clearly just Onestar shifting the blame to anyone but himself. Onestar's Confession ((aka, the ONLY book where the "Dark was born evil" narrative comes into play)) is from Onestar's own point of view, and considering how insecure he is, it fits perfectly with his character to make up an excuse for Darktail's evilness instead of accepting it was his own fault.
So basically, it was just was a way for Onestar to cope and ignore the fact he created a monster. 💀
@akeiraa-tr3mi I agree! Both Onestar and Smoke definitely failed Darktail, but a part of me will always blame Onestar the most for the way Darktail turned out
Bramblestar and his characterization bothers me so much because in any pre-new prophecy material he's a really kind and determined young cat who is portrayed as being very sympathetic. The narrative sets him up to be a main character because he's loyal and brave despite his circumstances. And then new prophecy onwards he just turns into a massive jerk whose morals change based on what suits him at the moment, and the books narrative for him doesn't change! They still want you to think he's an awesome guy and a great leader despite constantly showing you otherwise! Reading anything with bramblepaw/ very young brambleclaw makes me want to like him but everything after that makes me think he's a different cat.
Me too. I even tried to like him as BrambleCLAW, but I just can't justify my love of him anymore because he really is a terrible character. And it sucks because he could have been an interesting gray character. One who doesn't let his parentage define him and tries to be loyal, but still screws up massively on his journey to differentiate himself despite his ambitions. I LOVED that from Brambleclaw. If the narrative didn't call him purely good, since he's clearly not, I'd love him all over again!
Me too ngl. It's been ages since I've read the new prophecy but I remembered liking Brambleclaw up till Hawkfrost showed up. And by the end of that whole conflict I ended up not feeling the same about him, and it'd only gotten worse.
Im actually re reading the new prophecy again, just finished midnight, I actually am not a huge fan of brambleclaw at all, he's nowhere near as rude as he is now. But I guess I've just never been a fan of the way he acts.
@@skyler_thepatato9125 he's always been several degrees of stubborn git, it was tolerable before though because he had his redeeming qualities and moments
then he lost those redeeming moments and hacked away line by line at the redeeming qualities, mercifully he's entered his retired and thus barely relevant era now
unfortunately there was ashfur retconning in greystripe's vow, they wrote him as having always been a little creep who hates his clanmates
Yeah, I thought that was so stupid. Warriors prove time and time again that they don't understand their characters.
It wasn't necessary, and a horrible retcon, ashfur was a sweet background character, up until The Broken Code, they didn't need to make him less sympathetic by making him a bit of a tool, and I don't consider his behavior in graystripes vow cannon.
@@TheAshfurApologistI’m sorry UP until the Broken Code? Was that just a typo or are we completely ignoring the Power of Three?
@@strawberryqueen0382 The username checks out...
@@strawberryqueen0382it was a mistake, my bad. I guess it was in Long Shadows where things went wrong.
You know something? With how fate works in this series, I want to see someone fight it AND KEEP FIGHTING IT.
A character is born evil and finds out about it? They do everything they can to keep going down that bad route, maybe breaking the Warrior Code to prevent wars where they could possibly go down and "give in" to bloodlust. They decline promotions out of their fear of becoming addicted to the power and wanting more. No matter how their Clanmates (more specifically, cats in power who would know their "destiny") treat them, they're going to try and prove that no one should be treated like a villain because "they were born that way". They could fall into a people-pleasing mental state because they don't want to disobey and find out what StarClan says they will do. If/when they finally end up being a villain, they might not put up as much of a fight and be thinking they deserve what they get.
A character is destined to be a great hero but is doing some evil thing and loving it? They start doing even more evil things to spite the angel on their shoulder, maybe becoming more of a threat as their "heroic destiny" prevents them from going to the Dark Forest. Some part of them knows they shouldn't be doing this, but they're infatuated with it and can't let go no matter how strong that feeling gets. This is just enabled by their leader and/or medicine cats, who could be thinking they haven't figured it out yet, or that this is just a part of the plan.
I really think the "predestined life" part of the series really needs to have some sort of thing that lets us see how characters feel about it when they're forced to experience it themselves. Every single cat accepts another's destiny without asking themselves "how do THEY feel about it?" when it could be nice to see.
Your comment really just reminds me of Jayfeather and how easily I felt he'd given into his own fate as a medicine cat, and why it still somewhat bothers me despite not liking jayfeather personally (He's written well. Just not my favorite to read about)
@@bobtheball5384 I thought of that while writing this! I wasn't going to use him as a specific example since I was going for hypotheticals, but he's the first one that comes to mind for me of a cat who really just surrendered to their destiny instead of trying to forge their own path regardless.
It's very ironic that both Brokenstar and Tigerstar I seemed to turn evil BECAUSE of StarClan, it was StarClan's fault for Pinestar leaving and StarClan's fault for Yellowfang giving up on Brokenstar
Exactly and don’t recognize their mistakes because they are horrible douche bags with no values for the books it’s just pathetic at that point
I was so surprised by Winds of Change and A Shadow of RiverClan. Both graphic novels managed to portray morally gray characters in which you could see where they’re coming from but aren’t expected to condone their actions.
my favorite interpretation/version of tigerstar is that hes not special or noteworthy in any way. hes not born evil, he doesnt have this super tragic backstory, hes just a normal guy with some horrible, horrible beliefs and enough ambition. had it not been him, it could've been anyone. its realistic in a way thats terrifying.
Brokenkit actually does have a moment in Yellowfang's secret where Yellowfang asks him to help her when she sees the other kids picking on him, and he says he's friends with Yellowfang now. Then Yellowfang's medicine cat mentor tells her she shouldn't be spending so much time with him or something. It was a pretty sad moment that would have landed better if Brokenstar (calling him that even though I'm referring to before he's clan leader) had any other moments in the book where he wasn't just born evil.
I feel like determinism is one of Warriors's core themes, but it also holds the series back immensely. Characters are born great and destined to be great, or born evil and destined to be evil. It's the moments where they throw this idea away that we get some of the most interesting events in the series. When we can't hear from StarClan or a prediction is wrong, the writers are able to write the characters as just characters. Then, they have to shove them back into the boxes as soon as we leave that zone and it flattens everything.
(also, on the topic of Bramblestar--I really wish they acknowledged him as gray! I've loved him since I first read the books as a little kid because of that moment of darkness where he considers letting Firestar die. He's messy and they should've leaned into that instead of pretending that he's a perfectly good guy.)
3:57 And it's a shame, because there's *moments* in his kithood where we do see him being innocent and sweet! In Code of the Clans there's a story where he wonders away from camp and is rescued by a ShadowClan patrol. On his way home, he says "ShadowClan will always be my friends! One day I'll help you, too!"
I remember that. That made me so sad when I read it.
This
This right here has been something I've been struggling to articulate for years.
Warriors worldbuilding implies a morally complex universe. Where cats are taught to fight and do bad things for the sake of the Code. Territories and boarders, the insular and xenophobic nature of the clans, fighting and actually killing each other to preserve that, the morally dubious nature of StarClan, religious supremacy are all themes found in the world. Yet when you look at the conflict framed in Warriors you find that the writers tend to stray away from confronting the moral complexity of the world. Plots and characters always reinforce StarClan + Warrior Code = Good. That their culture is pure and without fault.
I personally LIKE the fact the Warrior Code has some backwards rules. The fact StarClan is a bunch of contradictions and not actually so good is interesting to me. I feel it inspires natrual conflict and fun stories. The problem is how its framed in the narrative. The all things are either good or evil without consequences directly contradict the concept presented in the world. Now you're forced to see StarClan, The Warrior Code, and clan culture as objectively good. While cats who challenge these things are shown to be evil with no redeeming qualities. A morally complex world simply cant have morally simple writing.
These leave the ideas presented in the worldbuilding unchallenged and unsatisfying. It makes it seem like the flaws in the world are genuine writing mistakes rather than intentional cracks in the clans way of life. This is why you get people calling the worldbuilding stupid and nonsensical. Its also why when the clans encounter cultures outside their own the writing falls flat. Since they gotta frame the clan's lifestyle as objectively the best way to live because of the moral simplicity they also gotta frame other cultures as far more flawed. Either incompetent (the tribe), spoiled (kittypets), depressing (rogues), or evil(the kin). Which makes the series genuinely look like its promoting xenophobia and bigotry.
Its such a tonal dissonance that it almost feels like its propaganda for the clans. Which is why a lot of fans headcanon characters to be way more complex than they are. Theres so much potential here for a very interesting story but it often gets wasted. We're starting to get something with it in A Starless Clan, but whether or not theyll actually combat the flaws in their society or its just lip service remains to be seen.
If a cat is born evil, or destined to be evil that means they aren't responsible for their actions and therefore should not be punished, as they could not choose any different.
Much like the criminal insane don't go to prison, they go to treatment.
i don't know that I really think that's always true; when you punish someone for doing something bad, you're punishing them for doing that thing, right? not for picking one option over the other. at least, this idea doesn't really hit for me because these characters don't really express any sort of pain or sadness at being doomed to be evil. maybe if they tried everything they could to stop it and couldn't overcome their nature, but i think someone like brokentail shouldn't necessarily get a free pass, if only because the parents and friends of the cats he killed likely would want some sort of catharsis. treatment wouldn't help anyone who's "born evil," and being pure evil =/= being criminally insane necessarily. Insanity is more complex than evil, and often exacerbated if not outright caused by external influences :0
I get what you mean for sure but i think in cases where a character is entirely, incurably Pure Evil, any sort of "punishment" for that is less to make them feel bad about what they did//actually Punish them + moreso a way of protecting the people around them, especially in cases of exile
If anything history also frames people as good or bad by how many people benefit from what happened. Warrior Cat's doesn't seam to want the gray characters or in hindsight good or bad as much as just good and evil.
tbh the only "morally grey" character pov that lands for me is Winds of Change
Exactly when I read it I realized that I was wrong for judging mudclaw because it was again because of hawk frost
That moment when the Google Store decides to give you a synopsis on both Thunder and Wind, because they are available for pre-order.
I want to interpret tigerstar 1 actions in series 1 as not committed to murdering bluestar. I like to believe that leader wasnt his end goal when he murdered redtail, and that he just wanted his voice to carry to bluestar. When he realized that bluestar wont listen to the majority of his opinions he then considers murdering her
I like to think he didn’t decide he wanted to kill Redtail until after Thistleclaw died.
Then he decided it’s his time to lead ThunderClan.
However, after he murdered Redtail he was too far gone to the point that he eventually took rogues to attack the camp and become leader once they kill Bluestar.
4:33 I'd like to argue that Darktail turned out the way he did because of his mother, Smoke. She told Onewhisker(star) that she'll raise Darkkit(tail) to hate him and the Clans if he doesn't get involved in their son's life. Onestar wasn't in the right to be an absent father to Darktail, but it was still Smoke's idea to raise him to be resentful. In other words, not only is it Onestar's fault Darktail became a bad cat bc he was never there for his son, but it was Smoke's fault as well bc she raised him into being spiteful.
I love Clear Sky so so so much, but I will admit it's mainly due to what he could have been rather than how he ended up. I'm just so impressed they attempted a character like this in Warrior Cats-a villain in the first half with a redemption in the second, having one of the founders be a former villain.
There are some scenes that are so good, scenes that make dotc my favourite arc even with all its flaws and strange attitudes.
-Clear Sky scolding Jagged Peak, and Jagged Peak tells him he shouldn't have to prove himself, that he shouldn't need Gray Wing's approval to be worth something. (this is the only scene in this comment that takes place in the first half)
-Quiet Rain disowning her son (imo she should have forgiven him when he got nine lives and proved himself capable of change, instead of just doing it bc she was told to. that would have made both Clear Sky and Quiet Rain more interesting.)
-Clear Sky apologizing to Thunder, and Thunder replies pretty much with "ok, but you'll never be my dad"
-Clear Sky seeing how he messed up and vowing to be the father he should have been for Thunder to his new kits
-Clear Sky rescuing Gray Wing's kits, mirroring how Gray Wing rescued Thunder (kinda?? Gray Wing never neglected Black Ear, but the idea of saving his brother's kit is what's important here), risking his life to get Black Ear to Gray Wing before he dies.
-Clear Sky's Clan having multiple cats who have previously betrayed or caused the death of others (Red Claw, Star Flower, he even felt awful about exiling Quick Water). Even the One Eye incident didn't stop Clear Sky from giving second chances to rogues.
-Clear Sky naming his kit after Petal, a cat who believed in his leadership and was loyal to him to the very end of her life (name origin according to Kate)
There's so much good here. I love it so much. I can feel Clear Sky being the best Warriors character ever, it's so close... but the writing fumbles too often to keep him consistent, and he's treated like a victim in the second arc ("oh no i made such a big mistake that killed their friends but they don't want to live with me!!" "oh no someone took over my clan and now I need everyone's help!!" "oh no my third wife has been kidnapped!!" "oh no my mom disowned me for two whole minutes!"), that despite all this, his redemption never feels truly earned but rather told because look how much he suffered!! Not to mention how he feels ooc in the supplemental material.
Brokenstar/tail would honestly have been an interesting "pure evil" character if they'd skipped the sad backstory stuff, because by virtue of caring about Yellowfang, the reader already has a reason to feel emotion of some kind when he's taken down or hurt in any way.
Having a character who we know to be complex but good-hearted DEEPLY love a character who is pure evil (especially on a familial and/or generally non-romantic level, where she can't just "get over it") gives us reason to feel that his life and death are bittersweet. We feel bad for his MOTHER. Yellowfang is the most interesting thing about Brokentail, and that is partially Because he is (kind of? like you said, they keep trying to "explain away" pure evil characters with tragic backstories) evil. A headstrong, imperfect, but righteous and widely beloved character both deeply loving and grieving as WELL as hating him is great on its own; who cares whether he had a good childhood or not?
It's super interesting to consider: her only surviving kit is a horrible, terrible, doomed-from-birth man and she can never Fully separate the fact that he is Brokentail from the fact that he is her baby. Yellowfang finally cutting that tie and accepting her found family, especially with her motherly love for Firestar, is way more touching than "brokentail was bullied"
Not every villain needs a tragic backstory. Nothing wrong with someone just happening to be evil. Sometimes that's the case.
off-topic but 5:25 this leopardstar design is *gorgeous* omg.
I agree. This is why Sol is my favorite villain. He was always kinda sneaky and lazy in personality not evil and Leafstar did terrible by him as a mentor making him desperate and then he was vengeful with good reason. Could he have done more and been pushed farther as a villain character, of course, but he has a much better arc than almost every other villain if you ask me
Warriors always gets frustrating because they always seem to fail in fully diving into their characters. A good portion of them just feel surface level like they’re scared to give them too much depth. The constant “character born evil” is just proof they don’t really want to give explanations as to why characters are the way they are. Honestly Bramblestar feels like the best example of that
To me I more like broken villains over pure evil cats because I like deep sad backstory’s
There really are no redeemable villans in Warriors for some reason. As you mentioned, ashfur wasn't a villan by birth, and wasn't as despicable as someone like tigerstar or brokenstar, he'd probably had made for a good redemption arc, but thats not how the Erin's operate.
I absolutely love what Brokenstar could be. He is my second favorite character of Warriors (first being Jayfeather). He could have been Oh Sangwoo(yes, I am comparing villain fror children fantasy book about cats and serial killer from bl thriller webtoon and what are you gonna do about it?) of Warriors. I am in love with that type of characters that you hate for what they are doing and love them for how well-written they are. But instead of amazing complex villain we got Yellowfang's Secret that says that he was born evil. So I prefer to ignore that piece of lore crap and create a bunch of different AUs where Brokenstar is either happy and never turned out to be a villain, reincarnated after Great Battle in another world and got his happy ending in different circumstances or let him be a great complex villain with better reasoning behind his actions and not washing off Shadowclan's responsibility for the monster they created.
ok sunny u bring up a good point hollyleaf and juniperclaw both did that bad thing however hollyleaf was good at first meenwhile juniperclaw was neutral like leapordstar
Honestly i feel like a corrupt starclan arc or something with some cats in starclan being corrupt would maybe help fix this
The next video is going to be the 100th!
Wooo! Sunnyfall posted - this is a great day!
Hey sunny!I just began to read rising tides!I like your writing!
Tiger star is really good if he wasn’t born evil, a good cat devolving into a murder is a really good villain!
Hi Sunny! Your videos are very interesting. I love hearing your opinions and ideas, and I enjoy them a lot! :)
Actually I kinda liked how Tigerstar was mostly just pure evil thanks to ambition but very very good at lying and power projection, the retcons making him the runt and mentored by Thistleclaw ruined him a bit. Not enough to not make him the best villain, but still
As for Bramblestar, there really are afiak four of him. The sweet guy in ToS, the decisive but determined lead in the front half of TNP, the insecure dude in the back half that shows up a little after Tallstar dies [who probably should've been placed earlier in the plot], and the current guy who kinda leads...he's kinda out of focus between Sunset- Last Hope.
However, the truly best "born evil" character is Darkstripe.
Honesty i like Brambleclaw (when he was a decent charater that was his name) more for what he should have been than what he is. When The Power of Three started they just decided his arc was over and they didn’t need to uphold that progress he'd made. Given up to that point he'd actually been something of a favorite for me (given his experience growing up in Tigerstar's shadow much of his charater made sense). He should have been given a chance to use the growth he was given but as soon as they gave up his charater arc from earlier books he was reverted and not allowed to grow any further because of the fact he wasn’t supposed to be in the spotlight. The charater we got is very much not good and i can't blame anyone for disliking him after that backslide. The comolation of a New Prophecy should have been him finally deciding he would not live in that shadow and would stop making choices based on his fear of being rejected by his clan and instead based on his own capacity to care for others but they just scoop him up and put him right back in the shadow and never give him the chance to demonstrate that supposed growth
Id like another villain similar to Ashfur. Not in their exact motivations, just that it is a villain with another motivation other than power and "taking over the clans" bs we've gotten like 7 million times now
You see, it's writing like this that's the reason why complex and sympathetic villains and antiheroes have been getting so much flak lately in favor of irredeemable villains. Regardless of the character's motives, they ignore the issue of accountability. They either just let the villain get away, or try to paint them as innocent for whatever reason, rather than address what they did and/or let them face consequence.
Aside from being morally dubious, it's not satisfying to read or watch because all the conflict that's been built up because of the characters' actions is not resolved accordingly. Rather than go through a proper redemption arc where they face the consequences of their actions and learn from it to become a better person, it's just determined that "oh, they're just an innocent baby who's been hurt real bad all along" and are let off easy, regardless of how vile their actions were. Instead of making them more complex or understandable, it oversimplifies their motivations to make them seem more like a victim and make less sense compared to what they've committed. Meanwhile, irredeemable villains seem more appealing because they're actually committed to their wrongdoings to achieve their goals and are rightfully dealt with. And they have to be born evil or give excuses, just people who simply do bad things and get punished, which will satisfy any viewer or reader. Nothing complex or dramatic for an audience to think about, just a simplistic, cathartic end.
It's things like this that, in the long term, will create this perception that people can't change, that people can only be wholly good or wholly bad, and should be either punished or protected regardless of what they actually do. When, in reality, making mistakes, dealing with consequences, and learning from them is part of the human experience. Therefore, rather than push back against complex and sympathetic characters, heroes or villains, we should strive to make more characters like Zuko from Avatar, characters who make terrible mistakes that get held accountable for them and actually go through the struggle of trying to redeem themselves. I'm not saying at all that characters shouldn't be irredeemable, but the thing is, we need more good role models in fiction who can, realistically, prove that redemption self-improvement is possible and important.
That will be perfect! 😊
Good and evil in warriors is a misnomer. Very few of the characters are good. You don’t have one cat acting just good. They all do really really bad things, so I know whenever I read, I always read the book from the audiobook and the e-book. so that I make sure that the narrator is not influencing how I see or how I think about the characters. I let their actions stand all by themselves and judge whether or not they are good characters. That’s why I can even say that blue star Bramble star Gray stripe and so many others are not good cats, they all should’ve landed in the dark forest and highly leaf should’ve been there with no hope of redemption, because her actions were never good. Whenever there was a choice for her to do right she didn’t do right. And that is with every single character except fire star. Fire star has always acted as a good cat. He’s always done the right thing he’s always try, and everybody else that had a little highlight moment. They always did something bad and then expected everybody to just overlook it, forgive it, or pretend that it never even happened in the first place. So I will leave you with that with what you will think of it, but my whole thing is always judge a character by their actions by how they interact with other characters around them, as well as what their deeds are. If they keep on doing bad things, even if they are considered the hero of the peace. They are a bad character. They are a bad personality. And nine out of 10 times evil is the side that they’re on. It doesn’t matter if they are doing good, or they’re not doing good. Judge each book whether it’s warriors or any book that you ever read judge these books with an open mind. A lot of times authors will have Characters do things and they’re not great things, but that person needs to be considered the hero or the most beloved character so they gloss over their bad deeds bad words, bad actions to justify why the reader should see them as a hero.
Star clan is great
Very wise words
This is me with mapleshade. I felt bad for her after 'Mapleshades vengance'. It would have been better to just leave she was bad, or make me not feel sorry for her with her back story. I mean, it truely wasn't her fault there was a flood. She was just doing what she thought was best for her kits, and if starclan gives the excuse 'He simply loved to much' for ashfur, I don't see why not use it here. Honestly, the dark forest made malpeshade more vengance than she was in life. She was just drove a little crazy by the death of her kits, which she DID NOT plan. Hollyleaf killed purposely, but did she go to the dark forest? No. There were so many different ways they could have played with mapleshade, but the way they went was just plain cruel.
I mostly put it up to bad writing from the authors
hollyleaf is a good example of a anti-hero
warrior cats is either
“oooo this guy is born EVILLL and wants to rule the clans or some shi so we are going to make them the most UNLIKABLE character youve ever seeeeennn” ( *cough cough* tigerstar and friends)
or
“this guy was just misunderstood they was a nice boi who murded everyon but he they a terible redemptin arc so it ok and were going to make everyon luv them for no reason evin tho they suck!!1!!” ( *cough cough* clear sky and onestar)
Yeah the whole "born evil" thing also REEKS of eugenics ESPECIALLY if you combine it with the whole "you should kill Tigerkit" plot point (yikes!!!)
9:21 they are morally grey.
9th comment
Mapleshade be like: *has a reason*
Lol when I clicked on this vid it had 666 likes
I feel you didn’t really read the books cause clearly Inrblestar was a good if average cat considering how much he always had to prove and struggle against from kithood up I challenge you to reread and be his defense attorney and see if you change your mind call it bramblestars trial and involve other bloggers in this genre
Yeah he is pretty average. I hate the "I hate Bramblestar/Squirrelflight because they're abusive" argument because they both aren't abusers. They're both caught in a codependent and toxic relationship where they constantly want to one-up each other leading to abusive situations. They either need cat therapy or cat divorce.