LS aka Leonídas Spártakos is an infamous Pantheon one trick, known for single handedly winning the Peloponnesian War by freezing waves and maintaining the phalanx against the onslaught of Athenians. He has ulted to the mythical land of “Korea” for retirement, where he pursues his passion of acrobatics by dodging 90% of his games
Yup, this just shows how riot have been building this problem since they decided thst it was a good idea to 1. Keep adding new champs when they havent balanced old ones 2. Bring new people to the game (in biig masses so many got push up by better players) and 3. Letting the toxic environment just grow up instead of creating and actual useful justice system (and not this bullshit of ban system which does literal nothing)
their hesitancy to actually ban people's accounts when they troll is a big one. There is virtually no way to incentivize playing normally other than the obvious of winning = good, but feeling righteous empowerment by greifing others is just as good if not better. Riot doesnt want to reduce the playerbase, or upset players, and instead panders to and looks to minimise potential uninstallers. By not taking a stance, seeking to appeal to everyone, they destroy themselves because the chlorine in the water isnt enough.
they're just greedy. they use AI to handle reporting and punishment so they don't have to pay humans to make judgments and deal with arguments from players. that's why words are punishable, but physical trolling never is. I had a duo pick Yuumi and speaks top/mid with smite and just int the entire game, but no punishment at all. But if I report someone for saying a BAD WORD they're banned within the hour.
I mean be easy on the guy english isn't his first language and you can tell he's still refining it, take any guy who is speaking their second language, and then ask them to say their opinion on some type of political topic IN THEIR FIRST LANGUAGE, and they will sound so much smarter. When you are speaking your second language you kinda end up having to talk like a child, for that's simply your level of being able to communicate it.
Around 15:00 to 16:00 they briefly talk about, essentially, "What's the point of grinding SoloQ when the top of the ladder looks like this?" Aka no one is punished for griefing, toxicity and people rely on dodging. They even mentioned the fact that Pro Players no longer play SoloQ because it's just that bad. As someone who was Dia 1 in Season 3 (during the infamous period of getting +3/+4 per win in Dia 1 and losing -19), and then was Challenger in Season 4, 5 and 6 before quitting, I always grinded because back then, I knew that being among the top players meant I'd encounter pros in my SoloQ games. Encountering pros meant I could possibly befriend some of them, which meant that eventually, down the line, when their pro team would be looking for a player, they could recommend me and I would then be able to go pro. If that didn't happen (spoiler alert, it didn't happen) I could assemble a team of great Challenger players and we could grind 5v5s to get a shot at Challenger Series (I had one absolutely amazing team and we tried to do that in Season 5, sadly we ended up just a bit short due to not having enough time to push into top 5, so we ended up as a "back-up team", we were top 8 I believe and only top 5 could join the Challenger Series). These were my biggest motivations grinding SoloQ back then. Those were the reasons I breathed and lived League of Legends on the daily. After I quit around the beginning of Season 6 and then came back at the start of Season 9 and I learned that leagues have franchised and there is no Challenger Series and 5v5s anymore, I asked myself, "What's the point of SoloQ then? Didn't that exist for the sole reason of scouting good players for pro teams or forming teams with good players to take over a spot in the pro league?" Because, right now, why would you even strive to reach Challenger? What's the point, at this very moment, of obtaining that sweet juicy Challenger rank? There is no point. Challenger Series no longer exist, hell even 5v5s no longer exist, so you can't gather a team of good Chall players and breakthrough into the pro league. So what about trying to do what I outlined earlier, befriending pros? Well, good fucking luck meeting any of them because most of them don't play SoloQ anymore and if they do, they probably don't give a shit about you and have everyone on ignore/have chat turned off from the very start of the game and I don't think you can befriend them with pings. So what about impressing them with your performance? Well, this is probably the most realistic option you've got but it's still kinda RNG. You'd have to reaaalllyyyyy impress the pro player to even make him consider adding you into his friends' list. And the chance of him recommending you to his pro team is unlikely, since nowadays, all the pro organizations have academy teams and they'd rather choose someone from there and move him up to the pro league than choosing you, a random soloq player who managed to one time impress a pro. So again, what's the point of grinding soloq nowadays? I feel like LS and Nemesis could have expanded on this a bit more and not only mention dodging, but I've been trying to get this message out there ever since I returned to league, trying to find a reason as to why I'm even tryharding ranked these days. But no one listens it seems. This is unsustainable going into the future. There needs to be incentives to playing ranked. Riot needs to motivate players somehow to make them WANT to perform well and not be toxic. And those incentives or motivations must be better than some petty skins/yellow recall for hitting Chall or other nonsense like that. Because right now, there is virtually no chance of going pro if you make it to Challenger in SoloQ, since there is no system in place that would allow you to contest the spots of players in academy teams or in professional teams, which is absolutely fucking stupid and needs to be changed and fixed asap, or people will just stop playing the game altogether. Sorry for the lengthy comment, here's a virtual high-five if you read it all and made it to the end.
True,i agree with u completely,even tho i play for long i reached relatively high rank for 1st time recently and my motivation just dissapeared and i just stopped playing ranks as a whole because i felt there is no point,thanks for this comment very good understanding and a way u wrote it:)
@@danilonjegic2977 I'm glad that you agree with it and thanks for the compliment, I appreciate it. At least someone out there understands what I'm trying to say. :)
Good points and thanks for sharing this. And these franchises feel like more imports are the solution for being competitive despite the glaring problems with finding and developing new talent without any incentives for you players like you to do so. Instead of working to make Solo Queue better and more meaningful if you’re successful. It’s mind boggling.
@@kylemurray3526 I agree wholeheartedly, Kyle. Most regions have trouble developing and thus subsequently finding new talent because there is simply no system present in the game that would breed said talent and then showcase it, which is what I wanted to highlight in my original comment. It is mind boggling indeed. Just imagine if the Olympics were franchised, it'd be a meaningless competition if certain athletes had guaranteed spots and they wouldn't have to work hard for them while some other athletes would sweat their asses off training hard and they still wouldn't be able to get the chance to compete. This is what we're dealing with here.
Agreed. The truth is that the higher you climb the easier (and simultaneously harder) the game becomes. People will troll more (including everything from toxicity to purposely single losing the game) but the quality of the games are also just getting worse by each year. The quality of higher mmr players are also getting worse by each year. Removing dodging will give so much power into the hands of the players. For example, if you are filled to off-role, you can easily threaten your teammate that you'll lose their game if they don't give you do lane you want (which is also a problem in lower elo). Removing dodging will give you the power to threaten players, keep them hostages both in champ select and in-game, lose their games on purpose and etc. Not to mention that the report system is completely useless and it's not working any near properly or effective. Keeping one hostage is not punished, forcing the lose on purpose is not punished, spamming FF and handling the game to the enemy is not punished, trolling is not punished. It doesn't matter if you fill the description field while reporting, the player won't get banned and it's constantly a problem in higher mmr. + worth mentioning that if you are in a gm-ch game and you face a player who is famous on both twitch and yt and for example, you are an otp having a bad day losing lane and the game. Just wait 2 days and you'll see a video from that person with a similar title like: ,, He picked xy and I just shat on his otp champion". I keep losing motivation because of the current state of soloQ and we can all agree on the fact that, if it's not for performing for yourself or making yourself "happy" by your performance, there's nothing else to gain.
I don't know why I'm so excited to finally see them together but it's so fun to watch and their friendship really reminds me of the friendship between my best friend and me hahaha Really excited for more content of you guys together :)
The one talking is LS, of course the screenshots would be on nememis*. Would've been more funny actually if the screenshots were on LS and we get nememis* just sitting there.
@@RikuHarada6996 screenshots could have been on the whole screen, covering both of them, but when it's only on LS it kinda saying "go away, nemesis, you are irrelevant" xd
I believe in you two. You have what it takes to make a difference. It’s great seeing you both under the same roof after all this time. The beginning of team LastLemon (LL)
I liked T1´s point of having to have played a champ a decent amout of times in the current season to be able to lock it in in ranked. Obv. at the start of the season the season before counts, otherwise nobody could play ranked.................... Would also hurt people that smurf a lot. They are forced to play a few normal games before ruining silver/gold players lives.
and thats also good because it disencourages smurfing which at low elo with dodging being the only defense vs retards at high elo makes smurfing even more viable and tbh having at least 2 to 3 smurfs every 3 games isnt fun
Yeah and those normal games could count towards whether or not the smurfs get sent to smurf queue so that there are less games of people getting smurfed on by fresh accounts in ranked.
Riot be like: "Thanks for giving us your opinion. We will take into consideration of your wishes in the next patch where the ranking system will *not be changed in the slightest.* However, we will be putting our efforts into this new lux skin so that this game can be more fun and interactive."
That's because it was proven that he boosted his account playing normal champions and switched to his "unique" Teemo style when he reached high elo, presumably to earn some sort of fame for his stream.
I had to play with him and we had a azir 1 trick mid and nubrac just sat there and soaked a level worth of exp while enemy perma froze wave and just sat on corrupting pots + rejuv bead. So cancer that he can grief and never have ban
Nemesis somehow reminds me of Dubov (a really good chess GM). Basically, he always seems so absent, then commentates with suprisingly deep insight as if its the most obvious statement :D and just a really funny and relaxed guy all around xD
I honestly appreciated this video a ton. I hit diamond a couple seasons ago, but I stopped playing this season because it wasn’t feeling that fun anymore, and I was one of the people that was like “Hell no, never dodge, I refuse to be one of 'those people'.” and my mental state just got dragged through the mud on a daily basis due to some of the games I was playing out, to the point where I literally quit playing to relieve stress. From what LS and Nemesis were talking about, I think I have a little better idea now as to how dodging possibly could’ve helped me avoid some of the mental/emotional strain-not to mention climb a little bit faster, which would obviously help the mental as well. I also really liked their points as well about punishing dodging actually leading to more toxicity by forcing people to play out games they don’t want to be in, which was an angle I completely hadn’t thought of. Overall, this was a great video in my opinion, and I’d be really interested to see more like this as I consider getting back into League this season or in future seasons. Good work guys, really nice job.
One of the big problems when it comes to why dodging became so important is that there are way many more griefer/tilted players/trolls in games than before. Why ? Because it's SO much easier to get level 30 accounts almost for free. These days you even have LoL "youtubers" that promote those websites in their video description (like the dummy that just reposts clips from Tyler1 including the one you showcased in ur video). Riot need to take action for those website. Even if it's super hard to do it with juristictions and all. Of course everyone will be more in cline to be a jerk if he can just get an account back and ready to queue up right after he gets a perma.
no.. why should we get rid of those 3rd party supports? people will always be min-maxers and you can never get rid of that aspect. if you ever get rid of them.. people will just make another way to min max
@@Olivernight09 Its not about proguides or other guides. Its about websites that sell you a lvl 30 acc for 2$ where you can griefe and troll all day long since you can always buy a new one.
Riot can't do shit against those website google it and search why it's not that hard and people could buy cheap account since forever, the probleme now is that there are mmr farmed account for 70 dollars which didn't really exist befor s11 with how normal mmr affect ranked now, you could buy that account ans skyrock go gm/challenger that's why there are over 1k more masters than past season
@@idotidot5722 Like LS said until Riot does anything that is the reality of what we are available to do. Dodging wont stop until its removed, trolls wont stop trolling, so you will have fast queue while quite literally being trapped with griefers.
@@LeylzYT And? Sometimes you get the trolls, sometimes the other team. "You are the only constant in your games", right? That is the same logic by which Elo-Hell does not exist
@@GameBreaker1055 Dude you are acting like i am the only one that feels this way. I have my opinion on the fact that this will never change unless Riot does something about it. If not then i will constantly dodge no need to be mad... I am waiting longer to get into games than you, i already have a clear mental disadvantage for pre data mining my team. Why dont you take your bs elsewhere?
@@GameBreaker1055 And if i am the only constant then wouldnt it make sense to use any tool at my disposal? Dodging is that tool and it is an option as it stands. I am taking my chances dodging and if i lose so be it. But in champ select if i see someone spitting nonsense like yourself i dodge no questions asked. Checkmate and try again
Hi LS. I think the argument for integrity being undermined is exactly what you described with "stacking the deck." MMR and matchmaking is inherently designed around having random enemies/teammates, and being able to handpick your lobbies puts cracks in the system. You inflate your MMR and gain an advantage on anyone who doesn't have the time in their day to wait out dodge timers, or has the accounts to cycle through to actually play, or just doesn't agree with dodging every other lobby. I agree with you that dodging is to defend yourself - you could say that it's not a disease, it's a symptom. That's how I understood it, at least, and found it pretty sensible. Thanks for the video, it was really interesting. :)
If they could make dodging like the Autofill system where you could get 3 - 5 dodges in so many games/hours and then you'd have to play a game or two or you'd be hit with a extreme penalty (mmr losses/ huge lp hits with large penalty timers). I think something like this would help because you'd have to be strategic with your dodging.
Dodging should be a vote system. If two or more players want to dodge, then they should have the option to vote and then the lobby should end there, putting everyone back in queue except for the people who votes, who just have to restart queue.
This is a good idea. Because then it'd make more sense to not punish the people dodging. There would be a greater likelihood that something was wrong with the draft or a team mate is trolling rather than just one person trying to "stack the deck" or trying to get out of being auto-filled.
Absolutely loved it, keep em coming boys. I'd also like to see videos where you two discuss itemchanges that might have slipped through without the majority of people noticing. For example: the base critdmg beeing changed from 200% to 175%, making infinity edge better that it seems at first glance
I had to wait for 40minutes for my friend to arrive and this was really nice to listen to aswell, idk if this is posted on like Spotify or something but it would be a great podcast
they talk almost everyday and interact on stream very frequently (whether its costreams or live views or casual coaching where they test out new builds and champs), they share a very similar view of the game and how it should be played so they get along pretty well (keep in mind that all of this is from a viewer ‘s perspective)
Great video. Really well informed takes in view of the current state of solo queue. I do think dodging is annoying as hell in lower ELO, but this helps keep it in the context of the larger ladder state. I can't imagine people trying to play high ELO without it.
I honestly think that Riot should be able to ban an account from playing ranked. In this current system we only have chat restrictions, short term bans and permanent bans. If there are accounts that are not allowed to play in ranked it allows ranked to be a less toxic experience for everyone. I think that Riot does not think that inting a ranked game it a ban able offense then maybe that person should not be able to play ranked on that account.
Exactly what i was thinking , just let him play Aram and draft mode . but Flex and Solo/duo should be bannable or at least make the trollers play against each other, but that require too much brain cells for riot to make it happend
If there was like "casual mode" (other than ARAM) and normal were more... Normal, then maaaaybe I guess there would be a little bit higher percentage of people trying characters on normals. But I guess that's what Flex mode is for.
@@CthulhuAndariel I've never played in NA so I don't really understand what's wrong with normal games, do you mind explaining how they aren't normal cus my normal games are generally quite similar to ranked without the flame
This is very true A friend of mine made a video running it down with Nunu without typing a single word for ~35-40 games and did not get punished for this. He got the account up to Diamond 2, and with a match history of that many losses specifically on Nunu with Ghost + Cleanse with Omnistone, he was not punished whatsoever. This was done in the middle of last season and he ended up dropping to high gold/low plat MMR (he was ~plat 4/gold1 now) and concluded his case that riot's punishment system needs something like what LS/Nemesis is stating: some form of Policing. He would then proceed to do this with another account, except upon reaching Diamond 2, he spammed "FUCK" a bunch in each of his games and would eventually be perma banned in about 1 month. It would have taken a lot quicker, but riot's system went as follow on this specific account: Chat restricted/warning for 10 games > 2 week ban > Perma ban. Thanks for coming to my tedxtalk.
@UCeQ0AK_vqKHob0BgyaQxj3A they are in the same room. Nemesis just sits away from the camera. Cam and mic are on LS's rightside and the bench they are sitting on moves away from it.
I really wish Riot would take videos like this to heart. Having a team who just for 8 hours spectates games would be massive. You could hire 6 people for each MMR bracket(iron-silver, Gold-D4, D3-challenger) and have two people just specate games in there bracket and ban people who are obvious inters. This would eliminate trolling and inting or at the least bring it to such a low margin that solo que would drastically improve. Literally 24 people which could be funded by a skin line as suggested could watch the brackets all day 7 days a week and still give them 2 days off. Almost every single player would buy at least one skin in hopes that solo que improves.
I missed these videos where you just sit and talk about an issue (LS Logic comes to mind). Idk how to explain it, it's just very entertaining content for me especially in areas that you have a ton of knowledge and experience in
World Renowned Economist, Limited Savings, argues against the promotion of self regulated markets in an open market environment and for the establishment of proper institutions that protect agents from toxic externalities of griefers and trollers.
Nah, they risk losing a possibly winnable game and getting banned (not). I think this is the most stupid decision riot has ever made, the shitty match up being a close second.
I think one of Riot’s concern is the time consumption caused by dodging. Let’s say I’m a Diamond player, that grinds on vacations to get there, and then plays 3-4 days every couple of days. Maybe this is still considered low elo idk... but still if I have 2 hours to play a game of league and I end up being in queue for the whole 2 hours for other peopke dodging , it just feels like shit... I guess this is addressed when u guys talk about lower mmr’s, but it still happens and it specifically sucks for the more casual players, that happen to be the vast majority of league players... just thinking out loud, lov u guys, hyped to see more irl content
Hi, I really looked forward to this one! Don't know if this is intentional, but with 'naturally' more energy (in body language/way of speaking) coming from LS placing Nemesis further away from the camera creates a tilted feeling for me, also Nemesis is a little hard to understand (volume+crappy speakers) I understand this is probably not your final setup, maybe you take this into account for future videos
Hey everyone its LS
Nemesis hey it's everyone LS
hair lookin OP
Hey Nemesis nice ad libs
We have 1 impostor
Hi LS serval Cat its me.
LS aka Leonídas Spártakos is an infamous Pantheon one trick, known for single handedly winning the Peloponnesian War by freezing waves and maintaining the phalanx against the onslaught of Athenians. He has ulted to the mythical land of “Korea” for retirement, where he pursues his passion of acrobatics by dodging 90% of his games
Holy kek
KEKW
the best one yet
a shame most league players dont even know what the peloponnesian war is though
That is screenshot worthy :)
Nemesis looks like a make-a-wish kid who regrets choosing to meet LS irl
Lmfaooo
lmfao
I’m dying ahahahaha
Accurate
Holy moly that’s good
Nemesis looks like the 10 year younger little brother who gets promised Mc Donalds if he participates in the video
lame
@@rkerto du
Ls made him pay the food kekw
Seeing these two together irl makes me so happy idk, they sure are enjoying it a lot
@@djhumanoid fr lol
Imagine the whole church gang is there IRL gathering together : LS, Neme, Crownie, Mikyx and Fudge
@@djhumanoid I heard Nemesis was asexual but I'm not entirely sure
@@djhumanoid nemesis is not gay. Stop forcing ur damn fetish to other
@@umar5138 Stop kinkshaming u donut
Nemesis really be out here looking like a depressed pelican
How to fxxking unsee
White people: "Why do people of other colours look the same?"
Also white people:
Nemesis’s mask is “white.” Neither of them are white.
@Lobus how is it racist to say they look the same when they do look the same
Jesus Ortiz they don’t though ? Literally the only thing they have in common is their skin colour, nothing else is the same
Increased dodging is a symptom of an underlying problem.
Yup, this just shows how riot have been building this problem since they decided thst it was a good idea to 1. Keep adding new champs when they havent balanced old ones 2. Bring new people to the game (in biig masses so many got push up by better players) and 3. Letting the toxic environment just grow up instead of creating and actual useful justice system (and not this bullshit of ban system which does literal nothing)
their hesitancy to actually ban people's accounts when they troll is a big one. There is virtually no way to incentivize playing normally other than the obvious of winning = good, but feeling righteous empowerment by greifing others is just as good if not better. Riot doesnt want to reduce the playerbase, or upset players, and instead panders to and looks to minimise potential uninstallers. By not taking a stance, seeking to appeal to everyone, they destroy themselves because the chlorine in the water isnt enough.
well spoken. I 100% agree
Thank, Sherlock.
they're just greedy. they use AI to handle reporting and punishment so they don't have to pay humans to make judgments and deal with arguments from players. that's why words are punishable, but physical trolling never is. I had a duo pick Yuumi and speaks top/mid with smite and just int the entire game, but no punishment at all. But if I report someone for saying a BAD WORD they're banned within the hour.
LS: *says something*
Nemesis: YEP
Such a beautiful relationship @_@
SIMP
Nemesis: says anything
LS: Uh... yeah that’s true. Well, yeah that’s true. That is true. Yes yes yes. Yeah. Wow that’s actually so true.
@@imsorrythankyouplease7613 True and, yeah that's pretty true, that's true and.. yeah that's true, that's true, that's true, that's pretty true, that's pretty true, i mean... that's true yeah, that's true. Umm.. that's true, that's fucking true. Umm... That's how it is dude eh eh
I mean be easy on the guy english isn't his first language and you can tell he's still refining it, take any guy who is speaking their second language, and then ask them to say their opinion on some type of political topic IN THEIR FIRST LANGUAGE, and they will sound so much smarter.
When you are speaking your second language you kinda end up having to talk like a child, for that's simply your level of being able to communicate it.
LS and Nemesis looking like they're about to form a new emocore band
From First to Last sat right before us
their album will be called The Nemesis of Literal Superstars
i nEED TO HEAR IT
Emos Not Dead
@@LSXYZ9 Matt Cutshall🙏
After this recording LS and Nemesis raged queued for eight hours straight
I think they did before recording XD
@@thomaserickson5737 1 game and a remake
3 hours? That's why I watch tyler1 rage queue for 13hrs
Glad to see you guys together in person, cant wait for the content to come!
I read this as glad to see you guys in Prison, can’t wait for the content to come! And I was damn sorry jsut wanted to say this
It's sad that leaving a queue became a skill required for climbing ):
???????
@@zandarz229 ????? Are you silver ?
Always has been
It always has been, it's just the flavor of the month drama recently.
I still have to dodge troller in D2+ lol ;C
I love how motivated nemesis always is POGGERS
He looks like slept 2 hours lol
@@jack17jackson3 he always looks like that lol
Around 15:00 to 16:00 they briefly talk about, essentially, "What's the point of grinding SoloQ when the top of the ladder looks like this?" Aka no one is punished for griefing, toxicity and people rely on dodging. They even mentioned the fact that Pro Players no longer play SoloQ because it's just that bad.
As someone who was Dia 1 in Season 3 (during the infamous period of getting +3/+4 per win in Dia 1 and losing -19), and then was Challenger in Season 4, 5 and 6 before quitting, I always grinded because back then, I knew that being among the top players meant I'd encounter pros in my SoloQ games. Encountering pros meant I could possibly befriend some of them, which meant that eventually, down the line, when their pro team would be looking for a player, they could recommend me and I would then be able to go pro. If that didn't happen (spoiler alert, it didn't happen) I could assemble a team of great Challenger players and we could grind 5v5s to get a shot at Challenger Series (I had one absolutely amazing team and we tried to do that in Season 5, sadly we ended up just a bit short due to not having enough time to push into top 5, so we ended up as a "back-up team", we were top 8 I believe and only top 5 could join the Challenger Series).
These were my biggest motivations grinding SoloQ back then. Those were the reasons I breathed and lived League of Legends on the daily. After I quit around the beginning of Season 6 and then came back at the start of Season 9 and I learned that leagues have franchised and there is no Challenger Series and 5v5s anymore, I asked myself, "What's the point of SoloQ then? Didn't that exist for the sole reason of scouting good players for pro teams or forming teams with good players to take over a spot in the pro league?" Because, right now, why would you even strive to reach Challenger? What's the point, at this very moment, of obtaining that sweet juicy Challenger rank? There is no point. Challenger Series no longer exist, hell even 5v5s no longer exist, so you can't gather a team of good Chall players and breakthrough into the pro league. So what about trying to do what I outlined earlier, befriending pros? Well, good fucking luck meeting any of them because most of them don't play SoloQ anymore and if they do, they probably don't give a shit about you and have everyone on ignore/have chat turned off from the very start of the game and I don't think you can befriend them with pings. So what about impressing them with your performance? Well, this is probably the most realistic option you've got but it's still kinda RNG. You'd have to reaaalllyyyyy impress the pro player to even make him consider adding you into his friends' list. And the chance of him recommending you to his pro team is unlikely, since nowadays, all the pro organizations have academy teams and they'd rather choose someone from there and move him up to the pro league than choosing you, a random soloq player who managed to one time impress a pro.
So again, what's the point of grinding soloq nowadays? I feel like LS and Nemesis could have expanded on this a bit more and not only mention dodging, but I've been trying to get this message out there ever since I returned to league, trying to find a reason as to why I'm even tryharding ranked these days. But no one listens it seems. This is unsustainable going into the future. There needs to be incentives to playing ranked. Riot needs to motivate players somehow to make them WANT to perform well and not be toxic. And those incentives or motivations must be better than some petty skins/yellow recall for hitting Chall or other nonsense like that. Because right now, there is virtually no chance of going pro if you make it to Challenger in SoloQ, since there is no system in place that would allow you to contest the spots of players in academy teams or in professional teams, which is absolutely fucking stupid and needs to be changed and fixed asap, or people will just stop playing the game altogether.
Sorry for the lengthy comment, here's a virtual high-five if you read it all and made it to the end.
True,i agree with u completely,even tho i play for long i reached relatively high rank for 1st time recently and my motivation just dissapeared and i just stopped playing ranks as a whole because i felt there is no point,thanks for this comment very good understanding and a way u wrote it:)
@@danilonjegic2977 I'm glad that you agree with it and thanks for the compliment, I appreciate it. At least someone out there understands what I'm trying to say. :)
Good points and thanks for sharing this. And these franchises feel like more imports are the solution for being competitive despite the glaring problems with finding and developing new talent without any incentives for you players like you to do so. Instead of working to make Solo Queue better and more meaningful if you’re successful.
It’s mind boggling.
@@kylemurray3526 I agree wholeheartedly, Kyle. Most regions have trouble developing and thus subsequently finding new talent because there is simply no system present in the game that would breed said talent and then showcase it, which is what I wanted to highlight in my original comment.
It is mind boggling indeed. Just imagine if the Olympics were franchised, it'd be a meaningless competition if certain athletes had guaranteed spots and they wouldn't have to work hard for them while some other athletes would sweat their asses off training hard and they still wouldn't be able to get the chance to compete. This is what we're dealing with here.
Agreed. The truth is that the higher you climb the easier (and simultaneously harder) the game becomes. People will troll more (including everything from toxicity to purposely single losing the game) but the quality of the games are also just getting worse by each year. The quality of higher mmr players are also getting worse by each year.
Removing dodging will give so much power into the hands of the players. For example, if you are filled to off-role, you can easily threaten your teammate that you'll lose their game if they don't give you do lane you want (which is also a problem in lower elo). Removing dodging will give you the power to threaten players, keep them hostages both in champ select and in-game, lose their games on purpose and etc.
Not to mention that the report system is completely useless and it's not working any near properly or effective. Keeping one hostage is not punished, forcing the lose on purpose is not punished, spamming FF and handling the game to the enemy is not punished, trolling is not punished. It doesn't matter if you fill the description field while reporting, the player won't get banned and it's constantly a problem in higher mmr.
+ worth mentioning that if you are in a gm-ch game and you face a player who is famous on both twitch and yt and for example, you are an otp having a bad day losing lane and the game. Just wait 2 days and you'll see a video from that person with a similar title like: ,, He picked xy and I just shat on his otp champion".
I keep losing motivation because of the current state of soloQ and we can all agree on the fact that, if it's not for performing for yourself or making yourself "happy" by your performance, there's nothing else to gain.
I don't know why I'm so excited to finally see them together but it's so fun to watch and their friendship really reminds me of the friendship between my best friend and me hahaha
Really excited for more content of you guys together :)
Why does LS and Nemesis looks like brothers lmao
Hair colour
Clones.
Inbreds look alike
@@mrheckles6076 Whatever is the point of this?
@@VladDascaliuc Well I thought it was funny
All I can focus on while watching this is LS' mask slowly slipping down till he has to adjust it.
he needs to buy some fricking 10 won nose bridges to stick on. they're so cheap and so effective
i love how when info is brought up it just covers nemesis
LS man I just want to say I genuinely like you and your content. Your passion for the game and your wealth of knowledge is such a joy to listen to.
0:22 why am I laughing so hard from the fact that its covered with screenshots only on nememis side but not LS?
The one talking is LS, of course the screenshots would be on nememis*. Would've been more funny actually if the screenshots were on LS and we get nememis* just sitting there.
@@RikuHarada6996 yeaah xDDD
@@RikuHarada6996 screenshots could have been on the whole screen, covering both of them, but when it's only on LS it kinda saying "go away, nemesis, you are irrelevant" xd
@@razumovskyi nah
14:15
"anger leads to hate hate leads to suffering"
yoda
you just quoted only half of the quote
@@toniokettner4821 oh well i dont remeber the Rest, shame on me :(
Fear is a path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate. Hate, leads to suffering.
I believe in you two. You have what it takes to make a difference. It’s great seeing you both under the same roof after all this time.
The beginning of team LastLemon (LL)
I liked T1´s point of having to have played a champ a decent amout of times in the current season to be able to lock it in in ranked. Obv. at the start of the season the season before counts, otherwise nobody could play ranked.................... Would also hurt people that smurf a lot. They are forced to play a few normal games before ruining silver/gold players lives.
and thats also good because it disencourages smurfing which at low elo with dodging being the only defense vs retards at high elo makes smurfing even more viable and tbh having at least 2 to 3 smurfs every 3 games isnt fun
Yeah and those normal games could count towards whether or not the smurfs get sent to smurf queue so that there are less games of people getting smurfed on by fresh accounts in ranked.
Alternate title: Nemesis listening to LS talk for 28:54 minutes
Thank you, I was searching for this comment it!
"LS talking about dodging and Nemesis is also there"
Ls and nemesis is a good bromance ngl
Nemesis pounds ls
Hes bi bro
Riot be like: "Thanks for giving us your opinion. We will take into consideration of your wishes in the next patch where the ranking system will *not be changed in the slightest.* However, we will be putting our efforts into this new lux skin so that this game can be more fun and interactive."
Epic video. These talks are siper interesting from such genius minda. Keep it up LS!
Didn't know LS had a son but I think he's cute
this the most Yuri on Ice lookin episode yet
BRO
The start is so perfect how LS was just about to say "Hey everyone" and then you hear: LS: "H-", Neme: "Hey everyone it's LS." lmao
played against nubrac in a solo queue game recently, definitely felt like he was trolling with his off strategy, was funny that nemesis mentioned it
That's because it was proven that he boosted his account playing normal champions and switched to his "unique" Teemo style when he reached high elo, presumably to earn some sort of fame for his stream.
I had to play with him and we had a azir 1 trick mid and nubrac just sat there and soaked a level worth of exp while enemy perma froze wave and just sat on corrupting pots + rejuv bead. So cancer that he can grief and never have ban
Nubrac is back on his shit again?
@@goldenmajin4073 yeah but hes hardstuck in plat and low diamond
Nemesis somehow reminds me of Dubov (a really good chess GM). Basically, he always seems so absent, then commentates with suprisingly deep insight as if its the most obvious statement :D and just a really funny and relaxed guy all around xD
Kinda love this style of video with you two! Would dig more content like this
I honestly appreciated this video a ton. I hit diamond a couple seasons ago, but I stopped playing this season because it wasn’t feeling that fun anymore, and I was one of the people that was like “Hell no, never dodge, I refuse to be one of 'those people'.” and my mental state just got dragged through the mud on a daily basis due to some of the games I was playing out, to the point where I literally quit playing to relieve stress. From what LS and Nemesis were talking about, I think I have a little better idea now as to how dodging possibly could’ve helped me avoid some of the mental/emotional strain-not to mention climb a little bit faster, which would obviously help the mental as well. I also really liked their points as well about punishing dodging actually leading to more toxicity by forcing people to play out games they don’t want to be in, which was an angle I completely hadn’t thought of. Overall, this was a great video in my opinion, and I’d be really interested to see more like this as I consider getting back into League this season or in future seasons. Good work guys, really nice job.
One of the big problems when it comes to why dodging became so important is that there are way many more griefer/tilted players/trolls in games than before. Why ? Because it's SO much easier to get level 30 accounts almost for free. These days you even have LoL "youtubers" that promote those websites in their video description (like the dummy that just reposts clips from Tyler1 including the one you showcased in ur video). Riot need to take action for those website. Even if it's super hard to do it with juristictions and all. Of course everyone will be more in cline to be a jerk if he can just get an account back and ready to queue up right after he gets a perma.
no.. why should we get rid of those 3rd party supports? people will always be min-maxers and you can never get rid of that aspect. if you ever get rid of them.. people will just make another way to min max
@@Olivernight09 Its not about proguides or other guides. Its about websites that sell you a lvl 30 acc for 2$ where you can griefe and troll all day long since you can always buy a new one.
The thing is even if you grief and troll there's literally no punishment unless you go 0/20 with disco nunu 10 games in a row.
Riot can't do shit against those website google it and search why it's not that hard and people could buy cheap account since forever, the probleme now is that there are mmr farmed account for 70 dollars which didn't really exist befor s11 with how normal mmr affect ranked now, you could buy that account ans skyrock go gm/challenger that's why there are over 1k more masters than past season
@@ogaimon3380 Had no clue normal mmr affected ranked? Aren't they completely seperate?
LS i think this type of videos are really informative and chill, really like the content keep it up!
LS: Darius is low Elo stomper
Wunder: gets stomped by darius in soloq
Do you have the match?
@@CalpachinoMrcroner he was playing sylas im pretty sure u cant watch this game anymore
Sylas has no chance in that matchup. Darius is just the best at what he does.
@@imsorrythankyouplease7613 and what is that exactly? Lots of fighter type champs similar to Darius can beat Darius right?
@@markovchainz8314 making melee champions bleed.
Really enjoyed this video format, really chill and a lot of great points
Man LS is suddenly out of mordekaisers ult... or Lemon is a yummies
he paid the morde tax
ahh man seeing you both now in real life is just amazing, both of you are as 1 to me, excited for more content.
They should add free dodges after multiple games in a row without dodging. Similar to how you get re rolls in URF you get free Dodges.
No, that incentives more frequent dodging and people sit in queue 4x longer than in game
@@idotidot5722 Like LS said until Riot does anything that is the reality of what we are available to do. Dodging wont stop until its removed, trolls wont stop trolling, so you will have fast queue while quite literally being trapped with griefers.
@@LeylzYT And? Sometimes you get the trolls, sometimes the other team.
"You are the only constant in your games", right?
That is the same logic by which Elo-Hell does not exist
@@GameBreaker1055 Dude you are acting like i am the only one that feels this way. I have my opinion on the fact that this will never change unless Riot does something about it. If not then i will constantly dodge no need to be mad... I am waiting longer to get into games than you, i already have a clear mental disadvantage for pre data mining my team. Why dont you take your bs elsewhere?
@@GameBreaker1055 And if i am the only constant then wouldnt it make sense to use any tool at my disposal? Dodging is that tool and it is an option as it stands. I am taking my chances dodging and if i lose so be it. But in champ select if i see someone spitting nonsense like yourself i dodge no questions asked. Checkmate and try again
Hi LS.
I think the argument for integrity being undermined is exactly what you described with "stacking the deck." MMR and matchmaking is inherently designed around having random enemies/teammates, and being able to handpick your lobbies puts cracks in the system.
You inflate your MMR and gain an advantage on anyone who doesn't have the time in their day to wait out dodge timers, or has the accounts to cycle through to actually play, or just doesn't agree with dodging every other lobby.
I agree with you that dodging is to defend yourself - you could say that it's not a disease, it's a symptom.
That's how I understood it, at least, and found it pretty sensible.
Thanks for the video, it was really interesting. :)
Pretty on point just think you missed another point why some people dodge Autofill isn't balanced
Here's a random thought why not in master+ ello ditch the lp system and make it pure mmr based?
I q top+supp what is this autofill you speak of
such a good video, just having these types of talks about the game is nice.
If they could make dodging like the Autofill system where you could get 3 - 5 dodges in so many games/hours and then you'd have to play a game or two or you'd be hit with a extreme penalty (mmr losses/ huge lp hits with large penalty timers). I think something like this would help because you'd have to be strategic with your dodging.
This is the best format of video you have done to date!
Wow. Nemesis hard carrying LS both in game and irl.
I loved this video. I hope you decide to continue making this type of content.
Dodging should be a vote system. If two or more players want to dodge, then they should have the option to vote and then the lobby should end there, putting everyone back in queue except for the people who votes, who just have to restart queue.
This is a good idea. Because then it'd make more sense to not punish the people dodging. There would be a greater likelihood that something was wrong with the draft or a team mate is trolling rather than just one person trying to "stack the deck" or trying to get out of being auto-filled.
Absolutely loved it, keep em coming boys. I'd also like to see videos where you two discuss itemchanges that might have slipped through without the majority of people noticing. For example: the base critdmg beeing changed from 200% to 175%, making infinity edge better that it seems at first glance
After a few videos like this Nemesis is going to start his streams with "Hey everyone it's LS"
For a first time format video like this , i like it a lot !
Love from Paris
Nemesis holding the light
for his dad while he fixes the car and
Asks questions every 5 min and saying mhm yea probably.
I really like this kind of video. Keep sharing your thoughts👍
Anyone who doesn't watch this video but sees the notification or thumbnail, is a dodger
Yea
I love this type of video. Beautiful conversation
Look at this cute couple.
KAPPA PRIDE
Are they together? That'd be cute. They could be secretly
@@David-jn1gg don't think so
Nemesis isn’t gay, stop imposing.
as much as we appreciate this duo’s content, i think we should avoid shipping them. it’s weird and it probably creeps them out!
I had to wait for 40minutes for my friend to arrive and this was really nice to listen to aswell, idk if this is posted on like Spotify or something but it would be a great podcast
Riot is probably just going to make it so that you can't see the names of your teammates until you get in
Yes pls, its fucking ridiculous, last night I waited for 45 min queue of dodging til i fking turned off the game and played Valorant
that would be cool tbh
If that happens the game will go from platoing to actually dying lol
I can seee this happening
Turning off nameplates doesn't help if you have a bad draft/team-comp
Very informative and fun to listen to!
how did this two got so close, what happened between the time i saw ls coaching nemesis and nemesis tilting and not listening to ls to this
After fnc probs he just hanged out with him
they talk almost everyday and interact on stream very frequently (whether its costreams or live views or casual coaching where they test out new builds and champs), they share a very similar view of the game and how it should be played so they get along pretty well (keep in mind that all of this is from a viewer ‘s perspective)
theyre boyfriends
Great video. Really well informed takes in view of the current state of solo queue. I do think dodging is annoying as hell in lower ELO, but this helps keep it in the context of the larger ladder state. I can't imagine people trying to play high ELO without it.
I honestly think that Riot should be able to ban an account from playing ranked. In this current system we only have chat restrictions, short term bans and permanent bans. If there are accounts that are not allowed to play in ranked it allows ranked to be a less toxic experience for everyone. I think that Riot does not think that inting a ranked game it a ban able offense then maybe that person should not be able to play ranked on that account.
Exactly what i was thinking , just let him play Aram and draft mode . but Flex and Solo/duo should be bannable or at least make the trollers play against each other, but that require too much brain cells for riot to make it happend
Great video and very informative!! I really enjoyed the content :D
Where are you Guys. In Ls Apartment? Looks pretty nice
T1 HQ
Amazing dude i Look forward to More Videos With you and Nemesis:)
I think they going sign nemesis as creater content hehehe
I would really love to see LS making some in depth guides about drafting
Using normal games to play Champs you dont main is underrated
If there was like "casual mode" (other than ARAM) and normal were more... Normal, then maaaaybe I guess there would be a little bit higher percentage of people trying characters on normals. But I guess that's what Flex mode is for.
@@CthulhuAndariel I've never played in NA so I don't really understand what's wrong with normal games, do you mind explaining how they aren't normal cus my normal games are generally quite similar to ranked without the flame
If there was actually normal draft pick in garena servers I would love to play it and enjoy the game for once
Lovely to see you guys together
The thumbnail gave me the same vibes as Voyboy's legendary staircase videos.
The staircase he used to wrongly accused Hashinshin?
Amazing video I really like this. Keep up the good works guys.
LS adjusts his mask every 5 seconds
Ye that mask is dogshit
This is very true
A friend of mine made a video running it down with Nunu without typing a single word for ~35-40 games and did not get punished for this. He got the account up to Diamond 2, and with a match history of that many losses specifically on Nunu with Ghost + Cleanse with Omnistone, he was not punished whatsoever. This was done in the middle of last season and he ended up dropping to high gold/low plat MMR (he was ~plat 4/gold1 now) and concluded his case that riot's punishment system needs something like what LS/Nemesis is stating: some form of Policing. He would then proceed to do this with another account, except upon reaching Diamond 2, he spammed "FUCK" a bunch in each of his games and would eventually be perma banned in about 1 month. It would have taken a lot quicker, but riot's system went as follow on this specific account: Chat restricted/warning for 10 games > 2 week ban > Perma ban. Thanks for coming to my tedxtalk.
Why does LS look like a normal size man but Nemesis looks like a young boy lmfao
@UCeQ0AK_vqKHob0BgyaQxj3A they are in the same room.
Nemesis just sits away from the camera. Cam and mic are on LS's rightside and the bench they are sitting on moves away from it.
Nemesis is also shorter and skinnier so it's just strange to see them together
LS probably has like 5 inches and 60 Pounds on him.
I like hearing the thoughts and ideas, hopefully it ignites continuous internal discussions at Riot.
Dodge no matter what elo. its all relative
it was helpful, thank you for making this video
next time please make sure you are sitting at the same height, this really makes Nemesis look sad af (as if he doesn't look sad enough already)
LS is just a gigantic hunk of a man
Némesis chikito?
Nemesis is hunched over a bit a lot of the time and he's also just a lil shorter than LS I think
I really wish Riot would take videos like this to heart. Having a team who just for 8 hours spectates games would be massive. You could hire 6 people for each MMR bracket(iron-silver, Gold-D4, D3-challenger) and have two people just specate games in there bracket and ban people who are obvious inters. This would eliminate trolling and inting or at the least bring it to such a low margin that solo que would drastically improve. Literally 24 people which could be funded by a skin line as suggested could watch the brackets all day 7 days a week and still give them 2 days off. Almost every single player would buy at least one skin in hopes that solo que improves.
Why LS is so big, or Nemesis is so small?
Just position of the camera.
Greenscreen makes it look like that, are they even in the same room tbh? The audio qualities sound different
@@puppetmaskerr theres no green screen. We are on same bench
@@LSXYZ9 cool
I missed these videos where you just sit and talk about an issue (LS Logic comes to mind). Idk how to explain it, it's just very entertaining content for me especially in areas that you have a ton of knowledge and experience in
Nemesis is so cute
Love these sit down videos, much love LS!
Dodging has to be allowed or the game is just ruined
loved this video. dwai ur opinions were great
Damn y does Nemesis look so tiny next to LS. Looks like father and son lmao
Because of the posture and distance to the camera.
LS is 5'11 while Nemesis is 170-175
I am so hyped, a proper studio and like podcasty videos with LS and Nemesis. That is so pog.
When he doesn't torture Nemesis as a "coach", he tortures him forcing him to be in a video for his own channel.
great video hope you make more like these!
World Renowned Economist, Limited Savings, argues against the promotion of self regulated markets in an open market environment and for the establishment of proper institutions that protect agents from toxic externalities of griefers and trollers.
This type of duo content is one of the reasons why I was so excited for Lemon to come to Korea.
Since you asked. I really like the new format. Would love more of that
Making dodging more pubishing is gonna make more peiple pick troll stuff to hopefully have 1 person dodge.
Nah, they risk losing a possibly winnable game and getting banned (not).
I think this is the most stupid decision riot has ever made, the shitty match up being a close second.
I'm so happy just to enjoy these two together
Everyone in class: exists
That two guys in the back of the class, speaking about communism:
I think one of Riot’s concern is the time consumption caused by dodging. Let’s say I’m a Diamond player, that grinds on vacations to get there, and then plays 3-4 days every couple of days. Maybe this is still considered low elo idk... but still if I have 2 hours to play a game of league and I end up being in queue for the whole 2 hours for other peopke dodging , it just feels like shit... I guess this is addressed when u guys talk about lower mmr’s, but it still happens and it specifically sucks for the more casual players, that happen to be the vast majority of league players... just thinking out loud, lov u guys, hyped to see more irl content
"sometimes being toxic can make a career for the player themselves" hmmm wonder who Nemesis was talking about 😂😂😂
sat through the entire video. no regrets, realized i need to learn how to recognize a good draft and dodging
Hi, I really looked forward to this one! Don't know if this is intentional, but with 'naturally' more energy (in body language/way of speaking) coming from LS placing Nemesis further away from the camera creates a tilted feeling for me, also Nemesis is a little hard to understand (volume+crappy speakers) I understand this is probably not your final setup, maybe you take this into account for future videos
Is this the new house? Its poggers well done man congragulations