Minimoog 2022 too expensive? Try this... A Celebration of the SE-1X
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- Опубликовано: 4 авг 2024
- A look at the Studio Electronics SE-1X as an alternative to the Moog Minimoog. The provenance is there... but is the sound? That's what we're here to find out! It's got a shared backstory, with SE having originally creating the MIDIMOOG using genuine Moog circuits.
Its got presets, 3xLFO, 4xENV, 3 filters, MIDI control, editor/librarian etc.. so functionally its got a lot more than other Moog impersonators, and depending on your workflow can be a much more useful studio tool. Presets can be a godsend!
oh... and it can sound filthy!
/ starskycarr
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• From The Studio
0:00 What's this all about?
3:26 Musical Interlude
3:38 What's the SE-1X?
5:45 Some sounds
9:42 Tweaking those tones
12:02 Comparison #1 Oscillators
14:23 SE-1X Sync
15:19 Comparison #2 3VCO Mooginess
17:09 Comparison #3 Filters
20:14 Comparison #4 Ring Mod vs FM
24:42 Wrapping it up
#se3x #se1x #minimoog #review #demo 
Видеоклипы
![NoCap - Maliboo [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FUV7E0QyniU/mqdefault.jpg)
great company, good call on the shout out. your sherman filterbank videos are still the most comprehensive out there. great work as always!
haha im loving all the skits!
I love this channel by the way. Your vibe is infectious.
I always enjoy your videos; fun, informative, and rich with synth sounds. Some of the sounds you've played today sound very much like a Roland SH3a. Thank you for sharing! 😁
Thanks Max, glad you liked it. Always nice to hear.
Nice video again, kudos! As mentioned by some other Tubers here, the SE-02 is a very nice synth as well. Would be cool if you find some time to compare that to these bad bass boys as well some day in the future...
Nice video Starsky! The into 😂 there’s so many good MiniMoog alternatives available. I’ve got a Subsequent 37 and it’s definitely no where near as buzzy, but I think of it as if a MiniMoog was designed in the last 10 years. The 25 is great too, a little more basic but very similar architecture to the Mini and all the modern features you want in a new synth. The Minitaur is a mean sounding bass synth too if you’re just looking for bass, and that’s just the Moog options!
What do you mean by "buzzy"? If you don't mind me asking.
I'm currently looking around for a good bass synth and both Moog Subs are on the short list.
Excellent video! I love Studio Electronics. I think you nailed the issue some will have, which is that if you like to twist knobs, particularly cutoff and resonance, stepping is real. Also some menu diving. That goes for the Omega as well. Ken Flux put it well that it's like buying a brand new vintage synth (assuming you buy one new). I love the company. I talked with Greg about upgrades and service, and they will do most of the upgrades they have offered over the years for a price. I almost bought an Omega used and sent it to them to service, add filters, mod and calibrate. Would have been cheaper than new, but not by that much. That they will even do that for a 20+ year old synth is amazing. The best customer service. Killer sound.
I have 2 SE-02 they sound awesome dude, thanks for the video. 😊
@@drdrak2049 Thank you so much 😊
And now you have a v30! Looking forward to the video
Well… I’ve got one on loan. But yeah… give me a few weeks to have a play and I’ll upload something.
Back in 1988, I got one of those Moogs for twenty dollars at a garage sale. Nobody wanted them because people were into digital. It was in perfect condition and only needed a new fuse. I ended up trading it for a turntable.
@@group-music yeah I remember finding one in my uncles cellar. Was in good condition. All it needed was 1 knob replacement. Eventually sold it for a drum machine for like $100
@@group-music
I remember at my grandfathers friends house he had a old keyboard lying around next to his new dx7 which seemed to be his pride and joy at the time, when I asked him about the mini minimoog he told me he couldn’t pay someone to get rid of the piece of garbage so I offered him 20 cents and he was happy to see it go, sold it for 15000 in 2018.
@@group-music yeah I found a pallet of them washed up on the Oregon coast way back in 1907. All i had to do was dry em off with a hair dryer which wasn’t invented yet. So I sold the whole shebang for a dollar.
I've found all kinds of amazing deals but not many recently.
I grew up in the early 90s. People were finding old analog synths left outside in the trash.
Not for me, but appreciate being educated and informed, Starsky! 😎👍🏼🙏🏼
Worth mentioning the Nova Edition was sold exclusively by Nova Musik in the States, later to be acquired by Kraft Music. The Nova version has a sine wave on OSC 2. The standard edition SE-1x (black) does not. Something to be aware of if you’re planning to buy an SE-1x.
Studio Electronics oscillators are INCREDIBLY RICH!
I played a first gen SE-1 in Chicago at Zzounds almost 20 years ago.
OMG did that thing "crackle" something seriously amazing on the high end.
These guys make great synths. And yeah it was big deal back when Moog was having problems. Also they are nice people.
More recently I think Moog have seen the dollar signs and gone crazy. The price of the D reissue is hilarious.
That's been the case ever since Mike Adams took over that company.
I only got 1 SE-02, I dont have a chance connecting 3 together try it in poly mode.
It is good enough to get some moog sound.
They add a digital LFO later on to overcome the OSC3 LFO mode which is not slow enough , it is nice.
it's wild that more people aren't hip to StudioElectronics. amazing catalog. also, my MiniMidi V30 is for sale (on Reverb)for anyone who wants a SE module after watching this vid
this is great! sound the same
Thank you for your video ! For those who don't mind about the small knobs and filter stepping, considering the price difference, wouldn't it be better to get the actual SE-02 you mention in the beginning ? Do you think in terms of sound and features they would be close ? (the SE even has FM)
Yep… luckily there’s a choice for everyone. 😀 I like the rackmountable form factor of this and the larger knobs, but they’re both SE synths, both excellent and both suit different needs.
Used SE-1 units can be had at a good price, but personally I would just save a bit more for an SE-3X new compared to a used 1X right now. Plus, if you MUST have a dead on clone their midimini is still a LOT less; were I in that market I would actually get it even if it were the same price. Same top of the line build and component quality and more flexible.
The SE-02 is basically a minimoog with some extra features (sync, pwm, fm via x-mod), presets and a sequencer. For like €600.
I mention it in this. The big difference is the size obviously, plus there’s a paraphonic mode on this with the latest firmware. SE02 is amazing value.
Not to mention the Behringer Model D for just 300$.
There is one thing I've never tried out when I had an SE-1X and that was how the filter cutoff reacts to external midi CC commands. Does the filter still "step" when using external midi CC automation or an external knob controller to control cutoff and resonance on the SE-1X?
I now realize trading in my SE-1X was a big mistake not realizing it actually sounds darn near exactly like a Minimoog with a few exceptions regatding modulation. So, I'm strongly considering getting another SE synth. The Minimoog Model D reissue is simply too expensive for what it is, now that I've played one and clearly see it's limitations. That same money can go towards a poly synth instead.
So again, would I get the filter "stepping" effect on the SE-1X when controlling cutoff and resonance via midi? If so, that would be a deal breaker, leading me to the Midimini (which is still expensive, but less than a Minimoog).
BTW, I no longer have the Behringer Poly-D.
I love my se-02
It's pretty flippin cheeky on Moog's part that SE could bring analogue synths out of the 70s and 80s by implementing presets and full MIDI specs in the 90s yet the new Minimoog is still only note, velocity and pitch bend. This iteration is definitely a coffee table item for private dentists.
@Terry Murray
Try harder.
SE-3X is an absolute killer, a little more expensive than SE-1X), but it have 4 filters on board arp2600, moog, sem, juno/jupiter. Snappier envelopes than those in se-1x, paraphonic, 2 distortion types. But you cant go wrong with any studio electronics synth, they all sounds gorgeous.
The SE-1X has the same snappy envelopes, it was the original SE-1 which had the slow envs back then.
Yeah the SE-1X had snappier envelopes. Then the Red Eyes went snappier, which is the same as the 2019 version. I’ve also got the ATC-X which has the full complement of filters as well… maybe I should sell both for an SE-3X.
@@StarskyCarr i had atc-x also for it's filters and when se-3x came out i sold atc-x and happy with se3x, finally 4 top filters without atc's membrane buttons)
I have to wonder though and maybe you can shed some light Starsky. I have a Matriarch that I love. Picked it up for $1,600 new. 4 voice paraphonic, stereo delay, etc. Made by Moog. I have trouble understanding how they can make a profit on that but need to sell the Minimoog for five grand. At five grand, you are only a couple grand away from the One. I think that Moog products are for the most part accurately priced, but the minimoog just seems to be an outlier for what it is. Would love to own one for 1-1.5K. Fender makes two types of tube amps: one hand-wired and one printed. Would be interesting to see Moog release a mini for the masses without the precious vintage components or whatever. I bet a lot of people would buy them.
the big difference is the technology used in the 2 units. The Minimoog uses through hole 'old school' discrete components whereas the newer synths use ICUs - so the difference is hundreds of individual matched components soldered through hole compared to surface mount all-in-one modern components. Many thing the discrete parts sound better (and are definitely future proofed in that they can be fixed by replacing standard parts. In 20 years who knows if the particular chips on the modern stuff will be available. Loads of 80s classics used synth on a chip tech but this is a level or ten higher! If you look inside the new OBX8 or Prophet 10 you'll find an empty box containing a small circuit board with a few large chips. On the Minimoog its as it was in 72. Pros and cons with both - the main and most obvious being the costs of assembly. Sound wise I wonder if anyone could really tell? Behringer Poly D/Model D vs a Minimoog being a case in point. There is a difference - so I don't think it's simple profiteering - but then somethings worth what people are prepared to pay.
The Studio Electronics stuff are some of the BEST analog synthesizers on 🌎
I love the SE stuff - and I have an original Minimoog. I went out and got the SE-02 without even hearing it and wasn't disappointed. The lack of keyboard has never bothered me, as even my original Moog doesn't have a keyboard (I bought it that way and use a Kenton box). I pair the original SE-01 with a Novation Supernova IIx, and for some reason they complement each other very nicely.
Wow you have an original Minimoog, that's cool, has it cost you alot to keep it working?
SE1 and a supernova… that was me all over back in the day! Brilliant pair.
@@HOLLASOUNDS No, it's been pretty reliable - I've had it for more than 10 years now, and beyond some scratchy knobs it's been good. I remember thinking it was a bit expensive at the time, but mine is a bit unique in its lack of a keyboard, so it was a bit cheaper. Now they are crazy money, and I'd certainly look to alternatives.
@@ChrisCebelenski What did you pay for it and why dont it have a keyboard? Have you thought about contacting Moog, they could probably fit a keyboard on your Moog.
@@HOLLASOUNDS The original keyboards kinda suck and go out of whack because of the bushings. Moog told me you cannot buy a newer one from them because they are incompatible with the original MM.
I think that this synth was used in the "Annihilation" OST on "The Alien" track for the very prominently (and for me goosebumping) sound that comes as a "lead melody" from about 4:43, I would say it's something like "dee-ba-dee-bou-dumm" plus later "doo-dee-wrummm". It sounds very dirty and fuzzed, like this synth can do. But of/c there could have been used a modular system with an overdrive, as well. Or even an OG MS-20 😀
10:39 would make a great DnB bass.
Thanks for the comparison! I might be the only one thinking that but: isn't it harder to compare when the two sounds are panned left/right? Wouldn't it be much easier to notice differences if they were centered?
Maybe… I’m trying different things. You can probably put it in mono if you’re listening via an interface. I normally do mono, this is an experiment. I may change back next time 👍
@@StarskyCarr No worries, thanks again. Your videos are much appreciated.
Good one! Behringer could clone it! :D
IMO the steppiness comes from the choice that the cutoff's value will be determined for every patch exactly and be matching to what you hear. But they could use some better ADCs for this price tag IMO!
It’s probably a throwback to the processors they started using back in the 90s. To use new ones would require a complete reworking. It’s a small company so I guess that’s just too much of a risk. They do, however, use discrete components rather than ICUs unlike Behringer and sequential etc, which does add a fair amount to the costs.
@@StarskyCarr oh, i understand then. Actually Behringer did used descrete schematics for ModelD. At least...
I had an SE-1X and kept editing it for a while. I then traded it in for another synth after buying a Behringer Poly D. I kinda regret giving up the SE-1X because of it's wonderful sound. O don't think my Poly D has the same umph in the low-end department as the SE-1X. However, I also kinda don't regret it and don't miss it because of it's form-factor as well as certain design choices regarding it's interface, like the lack of a dedicated oscillator mixer section. Oh, and no, the SE-3X with the two-handed operation hold a button and turn a knob band-aid solution in not something I would consider a good and convenient solution. I think the SE-3X user interface should have been redesigned to include a dedicated oscillator mixer section. Hmmmm, maybe the Midimini would be a better alternative to the Minimoog than the SE-1X or SE-3X (well, for me anyway). I don't really care about having presets or the fancy added modulation features on a Minimoog-style synth. As far as the sound goes, they ALL sound wonderful.
To be honest, I'd rather have a real Minimoog Model D. Otherwise, the SE Midimini would probably be a good close second. You lose the keyboard with the SE, but it also doesn't cost $5000 either.
---------------
EDIT:
The Behringer Poly-D just wasn't the answer. I should've never gotten rid of the SE-1X. It was a KILLER synth!!!! Looks like I might have to replace it with an SE-3X. Minimoog is too expensive.
My girlfriend is on the couch next to me, and she said you sound like you could do voice acting for Disney!
She also said I can’t buy either synth.
Haha… what are you doing playing it front of her 🤦♂️ schoolboy error 😂
Another splendid video….
I’m considering a 3 oscillator VCO synth… is there any reason your not mentioning the Uno Synth PRO ?
Only because it’s not a Minimoog emulation. It’s a fekin excellent synth though! If you can get past the interface it sounds amazing. I love mine.
@@StarskyCarr thanks Starsky … I’ll keep it on the shortlist..3 oscillators and a lot going for it 😊
@@dougie6897 just seen they’re 50% off at the mo!! Synth anatomy post.
The synth anatomy website is a bit clumsy and confusing… it doesn’t in still any confidence regarding pricing and currency.. the ANDERTONS and dv247 are much clearer website options
Then consider the Behringer 2600. You won't be disappointed!
Studio Electronics makes a better Moog, than Moog.
Try playing this through a REDDI... adds a really nice warm flavor to the sound
And for anyone that wants to go even closer to the original setup of a model D , I recommend the Midimini first version from SE. the best early Moog clone I know) and of which I own. And most likely cheaper then what’s shown here.
Cheers fir vid as always loving them !
The Midiminis and Midimoogs have always gone for way more the the SE-1X any time I looked, but usually considerably less than a real Minimoog. I'd have to go back to Darwin Grosse's interview of Tim Caswell of SE, but if I remember correctly, both the Midimoog and early MidiMini had actual Minimoog boards in them. I can't remember if the name change was cease & desist. SE switched to making their own boards after the name change after they ran out of Moog boards.
@@erikribeiro5772 ahh your right for some reason they were cheaper.. there is now an SE 1 on reverb for around a 1000 from France.. if i never had the Midimini i would totally get it. i also like there is extras and presets can be save
What are people's thoughts on a Minimoog/SE-1X vs the Grandmother/Matriarch. I know Starsky did a comparison, but I would be interested to hear other thoughts too
I’d take a Minimoog first, and a Matriarch Second.
The moog just sounds like more aged wine but the se x1 can be it too
Interesting name...
😂
SE 1X has a menu and makes it more modern then the New MiniMoog or the Behringer PolyD and Model D which dont. I think I'd still just buy the Behringer clones though. I know you proved that Arturia Mini V plugin is not the most Minimoog sound alike but I think it's good. I'm buying Synapse audio Ledgend.
I STILL thirst over an Omega-8.
I find it weird that nobody has compared a Minimoog vs a Pro 3 yet 🤔
It’s probably simply because you’d need both and maybe nobody does? If you get my drift? So having both in the studio is a rarity, and been bothered to do a decent comparison even rarer 😂 but it’s be interesting. If anyone’s got a Pro3 I’m happy to give it a go.
@@StarskyCarr Yeah I hear you, but it's interesting that people (not just you) what have walls full of synths don't have both... unless it's because once you have a Minimoog, you stop GASing 😅
Not having the mixer section (menu dive) is a huge pain.
That's one of the reasons I sold my first one (that and buying a Minimoog!), but on the new firmware the shift + PW knobs acts as a mixer and shift + freq fine tunes VCO 2 and 3. not as good as independent knobs but a huge improvement.
So why is your producer doing the demo (he's wearing the specs, after all), and whatever happened to his accent? 🙂
Haha it’s the magic of cinema .
Behringer! They make a couple Moog clones that are amazing!!!!!!!!!!
Behringer Model D vs Minimoog ruclips.net/video/pYxc8R_Qys0/видео.html
Poly D vs Minimoog ruclips.net/video/f3dEAptsg_A/видео.html
Sometimes I wonder if anyone watches the video 😂
@@StarskyCarr I was just here for the comments, nobody had mentioned behringer yet!
Thank you for the comparison. 12:49 even on my cheap laptop-speaker the Minimoog sounds much crisper at the high end and for me it sounds different, not the same or similar (can´t understand it, why you don´t hear the difference and claim so many sounds in your video as similar/same, where no one is similar for me at all). For me the Midimoog sounds too muffy compared to the real Minimoog and by far not so fat, sorry. For this price I await a much more punchy sound, no hearable steps (it sounds really bad) at filtersweeps at high resonance etc. at least.
Yeah I’m not matching patches precisely. No matter what I do people still say they’re different so I’m saving myself the effort 😂 but believe me they can sound almost identical.. and identical in a lot of cases. But please don’t give me sh*t for not spending more time 😂😂 I get some stick sometimes 🤦♂️
There’s absolutely no aliasing in any way btw these are all analog discrete circuits. Just like in the Minimoog itself.
There’s stepping yes, but no sonic digital artefacts whatsoever. It’s not a physical possibility.
@@StarskyCarr I meant the stepping during filtersweeps only, I corrected it.
@@Analoque444 haha no worries 😀👍
Daft Punk was using them a lot when playing live.
I can imagine - they’re perfect for that having the patch memory and full sized knobs - recall and tweakability.
" But if that is what it costs, that's what it costs"... cough behringer, cough model cough, D
Not a discussion I was willing to fall into tbh. - it’s more than a RUclips video can handle there’s a PhD’s worth of content in that subject!
Dr Dre used this unit all so many records
Boop those floofs
Did one of my cats appear at some point..?
Plot twist?! Which is his real voice?
Are you going to do a comparison of the poly d and the moog re-issue?
No, I made one with this version. I don’t think there’s any sonic difference - just additional MIDI control and the springy pitch bend. … oh and the wood.
Or a polyphonic Minimax.
Had 2, crappy digital envelopes but nice sound overall. Would rather have a Behringer Boog than one of these.
BTW - PWM on the SE-1x?
But NOT on the MiniMoog D?
CALL NICK BAT STAT! lol
Poly d innit
Sounds great, but 6x the price of a model d
SE1 in all it's editions is just instant BEEF!
ohhh finally a Studio Electronics in the house, this is the only company that make synths Through Hole Circuitry ( Through Hole Circuitry in other words is the reason why vintage synths sounds better than modern that are Surface Mount Circuitry ).
? Try This! (A Celebration of the SE-1X)
Try this; a celebration of the SE-1X
Nah for me it's the Roland boutique
All part of the same story. Defo amazing value for what you get.
Not really in person. It sounds weird. Somethings just not quite right.
Even a cheaper option, is to buy a can of beans, eat, and mic the results....
Then eat the mic.
i got a moog subphatty , it was affordable and it sound good enough , well there is some vst alternative to the minimoog who do not sound bad at all
Starkey compared several in a vid He did, Aturia Mini V was the last and Synapse audio ledgend was the winner.
in my small world moog lost all respect with this price tag ;-)
Or just buy 4 model D's and have a phat stack.
We’re spoiled for choice! 😀
Anyone who wants a Minimoog but doesn't want to pay $5K should get a Behringer Model D. It's the closest thing to a Minimoog ever because it's a clone of the original circuits. I know I compared it to my vintage 1975 Minimoog and it's 99.9% identical. And it costs 14 times less than a 2022 Minimoog reissue. Case closed.
BTW, the Studio Electronics SE-1X isn't exactly cheap at prices around half of a 2022 Minimoog reissue.
Behringer vs Moog: Minimoog vs Model D The definitive comparison Mini
ruclips.net/video/pYxc8R_Qys0/видео.html
Btw I never said it was cheap. It’s a premium product.
@@StarskyCarr
You said that if someone doesn't want to fork over $5K on a Minimoog reissue, this SE-1X was a less expensive alternative. True. But then again there's the Model D. ;-)
@@AlainHubert less expensive doesn’t mean cheap 👍 they’re different things. If you want patch memory, MIDI control, an editor/librarian, extra LFOs, extra ENVS, PWM, Sync, ring mod, paraphonic then the Model D doesn’t hit the mark. As I say at the start - this isn’t about being. Minimoog clone. But it’s another option for that tone, not as well know and the Behringers. Maybe it opens someone’s eyes to another option that fits their needs and budget.
@@StarskyCarr
My bad, I didn't mean "cheap" as in poor quality, I meant inexpensive. But it's nice to know that there are other alternatives to the real thing, and with bigger knobs than the Model D. BTW, didn't Roland come out with a collaboration with Studio Electronics with their SE-02 for around $500?
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
In 2022 moog is taking the piss out of ppl
Selling knobs for synths released without knobs (dfam/mavis) is a joke
Possibly the ugliest synth I can remember. Those mixed fonts-my gawd-just that alone make me… queasy.
Haha not a fan of the graphics myself tbh.
Pretty cool how Moog pays their employees $10 an hour to put all those synths together isn't it?